We are HAMMERING our SAW?!! (Is this becoming a LOST ART?!!)
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- Опубліковано 20 жов 2023
- This is a long one guys! In this video we go through the process of maintaining our Circle saw for our SAWMILL! Thanks for watching guys! Like always like, comment, and SUBSCRIBE!!! #sawmill #woodmizer #lumber #sawmillbusiness #logging #log
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I started out many years ago as a saw shop labourer. One night in the saw shop in a quite time i pull a blade out that was totally buggered. I decided to have a crack at it. I brought a old blade that was no good back to life. The Head saw doctor was impressed he went to the mill owner and told them what i had done. I was then offered an apprenticeship. 30 years later and im still reparing saw blade here in New Zealand
That is so amazing! I bet you know a thing or two!
Nice story, thanks for sharing! ;)
I’m glad to read your comment. The first part of any successful job is the desire to do it.
Amazing to watch……pay the man who knows where to hammer on your saw blade to straighten it out!
I had a grandfather died in a old sawmill accident. Some how the blade came off at speed, hit something went air born. When it came down it hit him in his collarbone area cutting him diagonally in half. I have always been afraid of them.
I'm 75 years old and have never seen this procedure done. Many thanks for sharing!!!
Thanks so much for this video. I was a sawyer for 45 years and I never saw a saw hammered. I learned one thing though, when the saw man talks, listen. Also thanks for the talk on safety.
I know zero about saw mills & sawing. I’m an old prairie boy. I found this video most fascinating. Enjoy your channel. Take care & remain safe.
Back in the early 1970's we had moved across town & the colored guy that lived 2 houses over was almost blind & worked at a saw mill down the street from us & we used walk with one his grandkids to take him his lunch he worked 2nd shift so our supper time but he used do that but he checked them by sound only & he used tell us how they was done in other ways but he could tell if it was out shape just from the sound !
I ran a 54", 48 or 50 tooth circle saw for a veneer mill opening logs to be veneered. This really brought back memories, good and bad. We ran 23/64 Simonds bits. One day cutting Pecan, I ran into 3 or 4 stainless steel climbing spikes (so I was later informed) that were buried in the log. That threw every single bit AND shank except for about 4. Shoulders were trashed and basically destroyed a $2000 saw back then, 1980 ish. Sounded like a machine gun. Thank God no one was hurt in the mill with me. One thing, don't forget to check your lead on your mill. I believe we set ours at 3/32". Be safe. Do you ever have someone help you with the taking off and putting on the saw. We always had 2 doing ours.
Good lord! That sounds horrible and dangerous. One of the most important tools that Mark Galicic puts to use with every log before it's loaded on the mill and a special metal detector. Replacing a blade with broken teeth on a band saw is little bit expensive. Replacing a circular blade is way expensive!
We manufacture saw blades up to 168" in diameter. Our company TRIANGLE T CORPERATION invented the "Replaceable Carbide Springtooth" which allowed the mill operator to quickly knock out & replace teeth without removing the blade. Its ALL about the FLEX in big blades. With a straight edge on the blade, we would see where the blade flexed at 45% angle & would hammer to move the flex point as needed. Yes, almost a lost ART. The older men whom taught me were the real CRAFTSMEN. These are the same men whom hand scraped the rotor bearing housing on Jet Turbines 14' in diameter.
Learned to hammer tension in 52” circle saws. Different tension is required for pine vs hardwood & yet more tension for dry hardwood. Ya gotta watch the saw run to determine the right tension. Never did inserted tooth saws so I cannot comment on those.
Glad to hear someone say hammering tension instead of dish. Dish is bad tension nessacary. I believe the reason for calling tension dish is lifting saw causes eye to droop and yea its concave..A dished saw is damaged from running can be from excessive tension when saw gets hot. Without rolls nearly impossible to correct. Not a lot easier with roller.
When you buy a saw from somewhere like Lowes or Home Depot and it is in the order of 10 inch to 14 inch blade and run it at high speed. The saw has been hammered when you buy it and the slots in the blade are part of this getting a "saw to stand up" too. What is going on is that at high speed the rim of the saw stretches out. Your 24 inch blade probably gains between 1/8 and 1/4 inch radius at speed. The hammering is to keep the metal stretched into tension when up to speed.
Getting a blade properly tensioned means it runs true under load. This is very important to getting a smooth cut. If your saw is not running true, it will wear the teeth unevenly and it will make a lot of noise when sawing like a hammer hitting steel. For your saw mill this keeping a saw in proper tension is a critical issue for your safety and for your production and keeping costs down.
As you heard the man say on needing to tension a band saw blade, At high speed the spring action of the steel as a band saw blade passes through the wood makes it necessary to have the front side of the saw where the load is tightened by hammering too.
All of this is a matter of resonance under load as well because both circle saws and band saws under load are springy with tooth impact of the wood. Just sharpening a saw that has gotten dull does not fix this tension issue and springiness issue. If your saw gets hot the metal loses temper and will quit being properly springy.
Most people do not realize and you see this with the gum on the teeth and with burned teeth on a saw that the temperature under work load of a running saw is very nearly 500F and can easily if not standing up right, go well above 1500F in almost an instant in a pinch or in other conditions. You may as well have put your saw in a blowtorch and made it glow red hot if you pinch a saw. Such a saw will need to be fixed and retempered/hammered etc.
Another feature you may not know about saws is that the bottom of a horizontal saw due to rotation of the earth is often running slower than the top. Due to tooth loading this makes the top of a saw stretch a lot more than the bottom of a saw. Sorry for the heavy physics lesson here but Maybe someone will understand more after reading it. Metal that has been heated and not properly tempered just doesn't do the job!
I have spent 20 years in a sawmill fixing all types of saws. Your explanation of saw tension and how a saw runs is bang on the money.
Rotation of the earth?
@@BinglybertSlaptybackYeah, that's some nonsense right there...
@@court2379 I had to laugh. Every trade has it's mythologies and they all end up sooner or later on the internet.
@@BinglybertSlaptyback
No have no idea where he got that. I filed 30 years only saw one horizontal band mill and it wasn't operational. RPM is same , how could it be otherwise. There's different band mill designs I ve seen many never a double cut that cuts like it sounds on forward motion of carriage and back.
We only had twin bands on chip n saw and sharp chain then band mill head rig.
There's quads with 4 two twins back to back. That's so they can wreck 4 at a time. Lol
We didn't use circle head saws like he's filing here. Bands have thinner kerf.
I understand what he's doing and he is spot on.
Bandsaws have back in them which makes backside opposite teeth longer. If that sounds impossible saw is funnel shaped sort of. If cut into and stretched full length it will curve slightly like Cresent moon shape. The reason is when straining saw
( raising top wheel to tighten saw to run ) saw tightens teeth side first and back side is loose while teeth side is tight as banjo string. This is so log or cant won't push it off back of mill. There's guards to prevent it from coming completely off but it's not a good sight or sound if your a sawfiler. Maybe this is what he meant. Corollis effect has no bearing on bandsaws long range shooting yea. Hope this clears it up.
Great video. My dad ran mills like this and older most of his life. When I was a kid, over 50 years ago, he started me out carrying slabs and lumber, shoveling sawdust, rolling up logs with a cant hook. Then I graduated to riding the carriage and setting logs. Yes, we rode the carriage and set the dogs with every pass back then. I'm thinking OSHA would have had an organizational cardiac arrest. He usually ran 60 inch saws as I recall and we took them in to have them hammered just as you showed in this video. I didn't realize anyone even hammered saws anymore. Definitely a lost art! Thank you for the video. It brought back a lot of memories.
60 " was the norm for circle saw mills.
I live in a small Nebraska town and there is a saw shop here that will hammer blades
Very nice to hear , we grew up in much the same way . But my dad said I had to learn how to scale logs before I could learn to saw. Now dads gone but his legacy lives on . I've been sawing for over 50 years.
I saw on the circle saw for 40 years never had an incident other than once in a while to fly out the blade I’m going through the roof i’m 70 years old and I still go out and saw a little bit. Enjoy your videos one thing about sawmill. It’s good hard honest work good luck to you guys.🤙 🍻
Thank goodness for old timers! Their knowledge is priceless. Glad he was open to share his knowledge. I'm just a Hoosier about 5 miles from Wood-Mizer and enjoy watching your videos. Keep it up. Thanks for sharing.
In the early 70's I worked for a forest products company running 3 sawmills. The oldest in Wakefield, MI was run by steam engine and the resaws, planers, etc. were driven by line shafts and pulleys. The head rig was powered by steam, too. The filer's room was above the main bandsaw. Whenever a saw needed sharpening, they hoist it up into the filer's room. When a band saw showed a crack, the filers could "weld" the crack closed using a flame torch and a hammer. They were real artists.
I know I'm late to the party on this one. As a 20-year bandsaw filer, this video was incredibly interesting to me. There were circle saws in the mill where I worked, but we sent those off to be fixed. There are quite a few reasons people aren't stepping up to take our place when we leave the profession. Plenty of it rests on the shoulders of mill owners and managers. Long story, really. I left the mill where I worked 2 years ago and they have not been able to find a person to go to work in my place. They are sending the bandsaws off to the same company that fixes the circle saws.
Very interesting video. I have been sharpening blades for 42 years but never tried to sharpen a saw mill blade. I do blades for home builders and cabinet makers. God has been good to me all these years. I have s 210 lb anvil that a friends grandfather used to hammer saw blades and his dog's head hammer. They are not for sale.
You gotta love an old guy who knows his shit
👍🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸👍
Wow. That's really interesting. I didn't realize there was that much upkeep to a saw blade. But it makes sense. Thanks for sharing. Keep em coming
My dad's dad immigrated from Fr Canada. Took a position in a Chicago mill repairing saw mill blades. He would grab the 300lb 6' blade from the in "box" carry it to his work bench and restore the blade. There was a chain fall hoist which was too cumbersome, so he didn't bother with it. We are a family of rather strong men. He would have had a cadiption seeing the tech you just displayed. His was heat and bend then quench. Worked well for a century or two.
Good video, wish I could hear the saw doctor a bit better! I did catch his thought on your collars. I had to turn mine a few years ago, they were flat, managed to rig up a bit and turn the one on the arbor in place and the other on the lathe, sure made that saw run better
Yes I said the same thing. Hard to understand what the old guy was saying.
Yes I believe this is a lost art , hammering head saws! I use to work at a family business, my uncle owned a saw shop. We repaired carbide saw blades. We re-toothed and sharpened them. We also did head saw repair, repairing and replacing broken backs and hammering the correct dish back into the head saw. These jobs are getting rare with timber deminishing.
Love this process. My saw filer lives just a few minutes from our sawmill operation . Quite fortunate to have a craftsmen of this dying skill near by
Scary to watch that wrench near that moving blade.
Nerves of steel.
Thx for sharing, My Granddad had the same blade "Big Lake , MO." about 50 years ago I helped him cut pole barn lumber. I miss those days... God Bless Keep her runnin true lololo She will take care of you..
I’ve always wanted to see a hammer at work. Heard of them was never able to see it done. A almost lost art that kids and young adults both guys and gals would be great to learn it Also be well rewarded for it.
Thanks ☺️
Thank you for sharing your experience and knowledge with us😊
Fifty years ago, when there was a sawmill every ten mile or less and only a handful of band mills existed at the time, we had a traveling saw doctor that made his rounds once a month. You had at least 3 saws, one running and 2 change outs. If one got messed up bad he took them back to his shop but he had a bench on rails he slide out the back of his panel van and hammer them in. Saws then don't look like the saws now. A brand new saw was full of hammer marks
I never realized how much time/work went into that process
Excellent video. Thank you very much!
You can set them running, yes. You can also set them with a straight edge while its not running. Also its a good practice to roll the saw slightly in the opposite direction of rotation so it sets against the pins in the collar then cinch the nut
Gene Exum in central Florida was the only man I ever knew who could hammer a head saw correctly. Many think they can, Gene was the master!
Very interesting and it makes sense that the centrifugal force would change the blade. Will be watching to learn more.
This a very good video. I remember learning about changing out the teeth and how to file sharpen. The man that showed me didn't use carbide. I have some treasured memories working with him around his sawmill and I helped with the building of his log home. There is no drywall in the house at all. The outside walls and a few walls on the inside are western cedar logs best I remember that were set by crane. All the other lumber he milled and dried in a old bulk tobacco barn. It was not a quick-build regular framed house for sure. He passed a couple of years ago, but I still think of him often. Take care and God bless...
It's quite an art getting the big saws set up. Mr Chris is a magician, for sure! Fun to see a master at work. Thanks for sharing it. Cheers and have a great weekend.
You got that right!
That was an amazing video thank you for sharing ❤❤❤❤❤
My grandfather would set the teeth and sharpen the saw. Then he would lay the blade down and put the cup in the blade.
He could do the same with a crosscut or a hand held bucking saw.
He was born in 1914 and forgot more about all aspects of lumbering than most men know today.
I was to young to know. I was watching a MASTER and failed to gain all the knowledge he had.
God rest his soul. 😢
What an interesting video. Thank you!
Back in the 80's I had the blade hammered, the guy was a master. Lost him to a forestry accident, not many left in my area,
Thank you for this info, I had no idea there was so much going on.
That was very interesting , ,thanks for sharing this !!!!!
Like so many arts that are being lost as we lose the masters that do them. That was a first for me to see, I knew of it happening in days gone by in my area. Thanks for bring us along. Be safe and be careful
Thanks for watching!
I'll bet OSHA goes nuts watching you adjust those guide pins. good information and video.
Great to see the truing process on a blade that large. Amazing how some can fine tune it with sound. Great video to still see that process. Now you must right angle correctly to have your true cuts back. Great video my friend.Steve
Another great video!!! Your saw blade looked massive as you were crating it, but then you took it into his shop and I saw some that were there,,,,
I live in Georgia my granddaddy was born 1900. He used to make saw blades and hammer them I have a picture of him with a piece of metal that was round and he’s grounding it to make a sawblade
Me fadder had a mill in the 70's, we run a 52 inch. Had a new sawyer trying to make a name for himself, but pushed too hard, cupped the blade. Even though we could run cooler cause our logs were wet. Run em hard(hot) or too slow, especially boat planks they cup. Never did see the hammering process, Thanks for the vid
My dad had a little sawmill which used that style of saw. An old Chevy motor and transmission to drive it. Other private sawmills in the area when I was a boy. All gone now. Lewis County WA.
I don't have a big beautiful saw like yours but I'm an old guy and I understood pretty much all a what you said.
Another great video guys!👍🏻👍🏻
That was a very informative and enjoyable video!
Learned something new today, thanks! Enjoyed it.
Glad you enjoyed it!
That was great! Some great advice in there too!!! Thanks!!!
Glad you enjoyed it!
Risky business setting those guides, but you did great. Pay attention, get er done. Experience certainly pays off. Very interesting and informative video.
Thanks for sharing.
Great job learned alot needed that refresher coarse mine is 52insaw but alot of info is same great video loved it
That was very interesting
Good morning guys I enjoyed this video showing the different things you got to do to maintain a circular saw mill you are right by saying the young generation don't really want to do this laboring work but I don't blame the kids only I also blame the parent for saying stay in school to get a better paying job .
But I also blame the schooling system for removing most of the trade classes I know myself I rather take a little less money and be happy with the job I choose I did not see myself in back of a desk and I don't think you guys would either but it is a shame that we are degraded by the white collar for what we do and like doing they forget if it wasn't of us they would not have a house to live in or office to work at so thumb up to all the laborer out there and have a great day
Old school tec. . Well done.
That's so amazing
You're amazing, and I'm impressed that you have all your digits. You have bigger stones than me when adjusting a moving blade.
The equipment predates safety!
Good stuff guys.
As a metal worker/precision machinist, I appreciate this old school method of truing a saw blade. Most likely a trade when once abundant, is diminishing with each decade. I love how you Southerners say "awl" when referring to oil.
Very cool video. A lot of good information. Thanks! 👍👍👍
Glad you enjoyed it!
Merry Christmas from Nova Scotia
Really interesting video, I have worked stone cutting saws for 30+years from 2ft to 6ft. The biggest blade is re-tipped in situ with soldered segments, obviously the blade needs hammering afterwards. If the soldering is done well 3 or 4 cracks with a big hammer does the trick, the skill is hitting the correct spots. Worst part is holding the heavy plate behind. Keep up the good work I enjoy the circular saw work the most but its all good stuff 👍.
I too used to hammer. On saws that were too big to lift, we hung them up with chain falls.
Bless your hearts, I could see how tired you were at the end of the day. Dreaming I could find a good circle mill....I retired from a steel mill and operated a Blanchard which would grind down saws to make them true again, usually this was .25. I don't like you using that wrench on that saw while it's moving, I would prefer extending that wrench so you would be way back, blame my comments on my training as a tech/millwright. Am proud of you with your great knowledge of your work, a testament to your work ethics!
Most interesting video of yours that I've seen so far!!!! I'm hoping you will get in depth when you start putting the other saw mill together
A skilled tradesman working the blade , not letting the blade work him.
Awesome!!
Cool!
Nice video and good job.
Very cool.
Very interesting
what you did in this video is saved history bet there are vey few shops like this
Worked for Joseph lumber for 9 years sent Chris some saws that should've been scrapped he'd bring em back like brand new he's fixed more blades than most people have seen lol
Great video 🤙
It’s amazing that is all that holds the teeth in the blade sometimes engineers can make great things and sometimes they make crap lol but this is pretty cool thanks for sharing god bless
Yeah, and watch what happens if you get a sliver stuck in a running saw out near the edge, the saw heats up and expands and the the bits and shanks start flying. My first mill they had top & bottom 48's, the roof directly above the saws had dozens of little holes in it.
That was fascinating!
That is neat. Never saw (no pun intended) that before. Only used carbide tips soldiered on our buzzsaw blade.
Take a hint from an old sawmiller . Always have your saw hammered for a slower speed than your mandrel speed. What happens as soon as you start into a log ?? Your mandrel speed slows down right? You are already getting out of your hammer speed if you pull down in most cuts all day your building up heat in your saw as it lays over . Pulling with diesel this is important electric not is much . I ran 630rpm and told the hammer man I was running 600rpm . The saw will wobble a little at speed but will stand up a lot better in the log and that is what you are looking for. Let your speed pull down through your hammer speed not away from it . If think about it it makes sense.
Never saw that before. Thanks.
I once sawed into a log and hit a railroad tie spike. The saw was bigger than the one in this video, and it just exploded into pieces. At the time the mill did not have metal detection. The saw was damaged and could not be repaired. It cost the mill $2,500 for the saw, and $500 for the carbide teeth. Stay safe.
Well I lost my comment don't have time to completely rewrite. I've seen everything you can imagine hit by saws in logs. The worst is a porcelain insulators used years ago nailed to trees for electric fences. They will make the tooth side of the saw look like back side or close. Bandsaws I mean. We used stretcher rolls to tension bandsaw , that's what he's doing. I'm so glad we didn't do it like he has to. Round circle saws like that are tensioned by RPM. Tension is stretch that allows so to flex. Not to much but some nessacary. I'm writing as he talks and just said can't get young folks to work like we did. That's so funny. He's right. RR spikes, 60 penny nails thanks to all the deer hunters, bullets , even a bees nest. That was interesting.
Nice job . Thanks for sharing
great video: Wish I had access to your saw filer / maintenance guy 30 years ago all my wood had teeth marks from a saw that would not stand up evenly. On your bit wrench they came with a J shaped bolt in the 2 holes. Short side of the J went thru the saw shank and the long side of J went thru the other hole. This is much handier than fiddling with your bolt to remove the shank and bit just slide the J bolt in to attach the shank and out to remove.
THANKS!
Thanks for sharing.
Our pleasure!
Say note chris,s Information for saw hammering its a dieing art and very hard to find people that do this with good knowledge like Chris,! Thank you, Roger in wis.
Very nice video. Good info. Thankyou!
Glad it was helpful! Appreciate you watching!
I'm seventy four añd I could work around you because I can see you know what your doing you did it right
i really enjoyed this video. My wife grandfather hammered saws hedre in North Mississippi in 40 and 50s I have his saw anvil and have collected 2 different dog head hammers. Thanks
Very cool! I would love to see the old equipment!
@@wallacefarmandsawmill what is best way to send you some pictures
Very interesting video. Love all your videos, your mill is a lost art.
Thank you very much!
So cool
Loved this video. I remember when my papaw would take his blade to get hammered.
There is no replacement for a skilled old timer.
Another great video guys. I take it you are off grid. We don’t really have that over here in England. They want us all plugged in and be counted. The homestead lifestyle looks amazing. It looks like you need some help over there😉I could hold the camera or something 👍
My first job was at a sawmill, with a Diesel tractor to run it.. I can see the advantage of a Bandsaw, blades are cheap and little maintenance .
Very interesting.
That was interesting not only did learn how the teeth are changed I did not know about the gentlemen who flattened the blade.
Thanks for the video I really learned a lot
Glad to hear it! Thanks for watching!
Considering I'm a tile man, I found this interesting. Thanks for the video!
Thanks for watching!
I tried to hammer out a blade once. It came out looking like a cupcake paper. The old man who always hammered our blades was standing right there. He roared with laughter. Two hours later he finally was able to correct it. I do not think I hit it more than twenty or thirty times. He did not have the equipment your man has. That was cool to see. Our man used a anvil and a spindle on the back of his truck. Two straight edges and some chalk. Good luck finding the problem. For a lot of your viewers I am certain they have no clue what all can go wrong to cause the problem. Like you I was raised with a sawmill. I think it would be fun for you to list some of the things you have seen. Some of the more obscure things I have encountered are. A track shim just in front of the saw blade. A bearing on the far end of the arbor had a cracked race. A piece of wood was wedged on a brace for the sawyers booth touching the saw. Anyway great video. Thank both of you for the nostalgia.
Thanks so much for watching!
You we're hitting the blade too hard. A soft blow, not much more than the hammer falling by its weight alone, will shrink the metal on the side that the hammer hits. A harder blow will stretch both sides of the blade. It's the same technique that bodymen use to take out dents with a hammer and dolly. You can practice by taking a 1"x 1/8 " steel bar laid flat on an anvil and tapping on it with a rounded head hammer until the bar curves upward. If you master that, then think of a saw blade as a series of similar bars radiating out from the center of the blade. Using a straight edge as a gauge, adjust the curvature to your gauge . In the unlikely case that someone will actually want to try this, there are tables of curvature available based on the diameter and gauge of the blade and the RPM it will run at.
thank you
Great video thanks. Very interesting.
Glad you enjoyed it
Dad said Grandpa had a cupped blade like that. He thought it was damaged, so they beat it out flat. 😂😂 Later, after they learned about their mistake, they had to hammer the cup back into it. 😂😂