Justice League: Cry for Justice #5-7
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- Опубліковано 20 сер 2024
- Welcome to Atop the Fourth Wall, where bad comics burn. In this episode, Linkara completes his look at the awful "Cry for Justice" mini-series!
ORIGINAL INFO: Don’t cry for these comics. They’re already dead.
Originally uploaded January 24th, 2011.
RUMINATIONS: If you’re building up a villain to be a threat, you need to JUSTIFY that build-up.
Hell, you need to ACTUALLY build up that threat. You can’t have them come right the hell out of nowhere and suddenly blindside your heroes. You also can’t have him go beyond the limits you’ve already set about. Lord Vyce is the main example for both - at this point in the storyline, I have been setting up Lord Vyce for MONTHS. From Linksano’s departure to his ability to restore Mechakara effortlessly to his machinations with the Vohrsoth and his reputation as a conqueror that gods and monsters are afraid of. We showed the kind of power he exhibited by simply plucking Linkara out of nowhere and having an army of robots on his side. We saw him manipulating Linkara from afar in the Silent Hill reviews. We saw him upgrade Mechakara to the point where he could survive a direct hit from the BFG AND stop Pollo from hacking him, both things utilized to defeat him previously.
Simply put - Lord Vyce is supposed to be taken seriously.
So imagine if instead of the curb-stomping he delivers to Linkara, Linkara just shoots his gun once at him and BOOM, threat over. All that build-up, all that suspense, all that drama and hype and it’s a bunch of crap. It might be funny for a second, but really it’s more like a middle finger to the audience and just narratively unsatisfying. And so we have Lord Vyce giving not a damn about Linkara. Will Wolfrgram, who was the suit actor for Vyce, has some martial arts and theater-fighting training, so he kept asking if I wanted him to do anything more extensive in his moves, but I kept turning him down. The thing is that Vyce is supposed to be SO strong that he doesn’t take the fight seriously. He walks right through anything Linkara throws at him because the dude fights GODS. Linkara is just in his way and he’s putting up with his bullcrap so he can get on with his job.
Of course, the problem with that is you then need to find a way to convincingly take down someone that strong, which is why the flaws in Vyce are mostly in his personality - he’s arrogant, superior, and honestly doesn’t think anyone else is capable of defeating the Entity (and we finally get the Entity’s presence explained! And yes, describing it as a “glitch” in the Universe was deliberate). As such, he’s worried that if he dies, all of existence is doomed. After all… he sees himself as the real hero here.
The Champion thing is not and is never meant to be a “chosen one.” Linkara is not all THAT special any more than one red blood cell is more special than another - it’s just the universe naturally predisposes towards certain people to act as antibodies to threats. I wanted to make it explicitly clear that Linkara is NOT the only Champion in this universe and not even the only Champion on earth. It’s just in this case, Vyce identified him in particular as being the domino he needs to push over to conquer this world and he didn’t want to reveal his presence to the Entity since he was so close, so he decided to try the subtle tactics previously until Mechakara was defeated and he felt he needed to handle things himself. And yeah, this is just another example of me trying to justify why a universal conqueror who fights the worst, most hellish monstrosities ever devised in our nightmares… is bothering with some asshole who reviews comic books on the internet.
"In a good story, we're angry at the villain. In a bad story, we're angry at the creators." Well said.
Kimi FW And in an absolute piece of crap, you're mad at the creators, the characters, and the publisher.
Marvel current year in a nutshell...
Kimi FW new 52 in a nutshell. Though we could argue character as well for things to be angry at concerning new 52 superman
What's the difference?
Andres0082 Are you talking about the Marvel Comics or the Marvel Movies? Cause as far as I heard the comics were crap, but the movies that they made so far were awesome, even though I haven’t seen Captain Marvel because it wasn’t good.
Prometheus' helmet does everything except protect his head from injury. Huh.
I think he should really be calling it his visor.
Which is funny, because Vyce has a Vyser... on his helmet...
If you think about it the thing is basically a computer considering BATMAN was able to HACK it, so you'd really on need a strong magnetic or EMP to fry it, but of course the writers bend over backwards to make most characters too stupid to realize that & be forced to rely on BATMAN cause PROMETHOUS is basically an villainous knock-off of BATMAN!
It’s a helmet that fails at being a helmet
Dona troy broke the dude's helmet, that means not only they put the helmet back on but they also repaired it
Because... JUSTICE!
@@makmotv No, because they’re complete idiots.
And keep in mind, that is probably how Prometheus was able to inadvertently kill Lian for shock value
Actually, there exists a far more interesting single father superhero. He is not owned by DC or Marvel. His secret identity is Drake Mallard. He is the terror that flaps in the night. He is the wrong number that wakes you at 3 A.M. He is... DARKWING DUCK!
+BigK13372 And now they own marvel
COINCIDENCE!?
+Dec Hardcat
I love you.
"Lets get dangerous!"
Let's get dangerous.
I THINK NOT!!!
I think it's high time Linkara did a top ten best comic deaths to highlight how you should handle death, characters, and their legacies and impacts on the universe.
X'Elias of Rivia Superman, the original Supergirl, Jason Todd before they brought him back....and Thunderbird?
@@nvfury13 don't forget how barry died
@@__-dr5vm yeah. In actually prefer Barry's death to Supergirl's
@@nvfury13 Possibly also Captain Marvel I
@@nvfury13Kara went down fighting the literal end of existence. Nothing can be more badass than that.
This Prometheus fight is literally the equivalent of that one guy in a fight rp who refused to be beaten by anyone so he'd come up with bullcrap ways of getting out of situations
Warrior Studios He does seem to have DM's pet villain syndrome. I'm glad I learned to never do that *before* I ever DMed.
"Take him behind the shed and see how well his everything-proof shield works when he's getting his teeth broken with a bicycle chain." -Yahtzee (paraphrased)
Prometheus the Godmodder.
Nowadays, the villain would be asked to become friends with the good guys despite leading cults, kidnapping children of dignitaries out of pure spite or committing mass genocide on multiple planets out of racial supremacy.
It reminded me of one of the first villains I ever saw back on my starting RP site... also one of the quickest forgotten. No one could beat her conventionally so her plot was never resolved.
"Surprisingly caucasian Firestorm..." Somehow that had me giggling for a minute straight.
Years later and the scene with Linkara talking about Lian's pointless death is still the most legitimately angry I think I've seen him. Not frustrated, not annoyed, full-on visceral anger. And I do not blame him.
It's like imagine this in death of superman it's how he does in snyderverse like that and he had no reason to be here it pisses everyone off cause there was no buildup and seems like a horrible joke kratos can't be as angry as linkara here cause linkara showed the pure emotion of hatred and rage personified
That was *_NOT_* Linkara talking to us about that scene. _That was Lewis Louvhog himself!_
I would have been fine with Green Arrow killing Prometheus if he didn't say "Justice" afterwords. That one thing ruins it all. They should have had it where Arrow knew what he was doing was wrong but decided to do it anyway because of what Prometheus has done and then live with the consequence. Having him say "Justice" makes for a poor excuse of trying to justify his actions.
You'll think they could stop referencing the title for one emotional scene, but nope, terrible to the end.
Exactly. It would have been so much more powerful for him to stay silent. Him saying justice actually makes him look like a villain himself in that he believes that the only way to achieve justice is to kill.
Couldn't agree more.
@@SpawnRevenge92 Seriously. And does he really not understand the difference between Justice and Revenge? What an idiot!
Excuse me! I actually did leave to hunt down Grant Morrison's Animal Man, and when I come back, you just ASSUME that I didn't??? I don't just want an apology from you.... I want JUSTICE!!!!!
Fuck yeah. Animal Man was awesome.
Together, we can BE justice!
TheHeroOfTomorrow Then you'll get sued for identity theft by Lady Justice!
JUSTICE, JUSTICE JUSTICE, JUUUUSTICE!!!!
I’m going to say it........ justi-
Prometheus- Occupation: Super Villain
Superpower: Plot Convenience
Thankfully, it doesn't help him in JLA/Avengers.
“Donna Troy is super strong!” Now I want a version of the Spider-Man theme song but it’s about Donna instead.
“Is she strong? Listen good: she’s got Amazonian blood!”
The =rhyme is listen bud
Bud blood y,know
@@EllaAngelii never heard that until just recently
Actually, what could he have possibly used to blackmail high-profile, cold-blooded murderers? Pictures of Black Manta petting a kitten to embarrass him to the other villains?
God, this story is contrived.
There real names and the names of there loved ones. For Mr freaze he would have threatened his wife.
@@daraghokane4236 The thing is that I'm sure some of them like the afromentioned Manta don't have loved ones to talk about and I'm almost sure that other such as Composite Superman don't even have secret identities. You could say that he just threathened them with their lives, but unless he was randomly lying when telling the Shade that he didn't have data of villains there is no way he would win a fight against the likes of Mr. Frezee, Scarecrow etc. but specially not against Composite Superman who is only a few power levels bellow most of the New Gods (and I think he should be in the 31st century, but that may have an actual explanation in another comic)
@@jacobovillamizar3363also wouldnt most of them like manta on wich he likelly has some embarassing stuff on just try to kill him while his back was turned
@@Lord.Mind_Flayer With Manta I can see his Gary Stu Helmet (TM) saving him as villain or not the guy is ultimately just a brawler with a knife and sometimes a gun, Prometheus possibly used the info of a similar hero on him, but for most of the others villains it was just the faeries protecting him
PD: I am thoroughly convinced the only way he could blackmail Manta is by threatening Manta's life
Thank god Lian came back in the titans convergence tie-in.
I’ve read that Lian’s Death was actually an executive mandate, and that actually more members of the Green Arrow family were supposed to die but Robinson managed to talk them down to just Lian.
Once again proving that Editors Aren’t Writers
Disgusting! How dare he do that to a Child character!!!!!!
@@taylormansonshadicstorm9008 Based on the original comment, it looks like he didn’t have a choice. I hate this death. Any normal person would hate when anyone is senselessly slaughtered. However, considering he managed to only get a SINGLE death, even if it WAS an innocent child who had no bearing on the story, I feel he was in a losing battle.
This again proves my point! Dan Didio, don't you ever, ever, come near DC or any comic publisher again!!
They had us in the first half, not gonna lie……
Prometheus' dialogue in a nutshell: "My pwan is gweat!"
Edward Ramos so kinda like harvest
My Pwan is gweat! Naw let me juwst sumawn Dawtz fwom the waking of the dwagons awc of yugioh abwidged so he can give me the power of the orichalcos! My pwan is gweat!
I'm so freaking glad Prometheus was not in the Arkham games. I love the arkham games, but why, oh why, was his existance ackloledged in those games?!
Prometheus a hacker but the annoying ones who exist simply to annoy people
@@jakeproven256 so one day we can beat the crap out of him so much
So let me get this straight
The JLA was dissolved
Numerous supporting characters were killed off panel
Roy Harper was mutilated
Liane Harper was also killed off panel just for a shock death
And Prometheus WON the villain ultimately succeeded in his goal the cardnel sin of superhero comics having the villain win despite numerous horrific acts and we can’t get any real satisfaction
It would have been hilarious if this episode ended with a cut from "I Can't Get No Satisfaction" given this comment.
I AM SO SMART! I AM SO SUPER SMART! OH NO, MY SUPER SMART DEVICES AREN'T SO SMART!
Damn, if only we were smart like him!
Justice! Justice justice justice. Justice, justice justice justice. Justice? JUSTICE!
KidSnivy69 XD
KidSnivy69 Justice?! Justice justice justice.
Together, we can BE gay for JUSTICE!!!!!
@@XFlare17 But JUSTICE!!
Gotta admit, LINKARA's RAGE at LIAN's DEATH (the worst kind of FRIDGING OF A CHARACTER, right up their with the infamous death that helped coin the term WOMEN IN REFRIGERATORs for how utterly senseless it is (made even worse by Roy getting maimed)! Its done not for deep storytelling possibilities as it closes off potential stories that could be told with her alive (maybe have her grow up dealing with having a superhero single father & the strain that might cause as well the drama invovling her mother) is simply a tasteless shock death that just comes out of no where! Of course, I'd ask the writer's where is the JUSTICE for LIAN cause she's just killed off cause they could! Also the thing that is even the worst is their isn't even the satisfaction that the heroes manage to foil the rest of PROMETHOUS plan & only have the Beatdown by Donny Troy buy that is ruined by them giving him back his stupid helmet! Confiscate that $HIT or better yet have Supergirl & Donna pound that helmet into dust! Green Arrow killing PROMETHOUS also isn't satisfying at all as it continues the idiotic literally CRYING FOR JUSTICE nonsense that they keep beating like a DEAD HORSE & the fact PROMETHOUS only dies cause the writer's were done with him & turned off his helmet's GOD MODE cheat to make him vulnerable to a freakin arrow while wearing a freakin helmet which is just idiotic! Also making the heroes idiots just so the plot could happen!
Exploitive TRASH indeed especially when you realize the title is literal given how many in this cry for it but don't even understand the word cause the writer's made them equate JUSTICE with REVENGE! It also does a PI$$ poor job of trying to take on a half hearted message that torture is wrong & the HEROES conveniently stop crying for it but has GREEN ARROW & GREEN LANTURN still defend their stupidity & undermines a B@D@$$ BLACK CANARY by having her fall apart cause her husband left on a stupid crusade of hypocritical REVENGE JUSTICE!
Kinda surprised though that LINKARA didn't burn all of CRY FOR JUSTICE as it would be rife for kindling!
Thank you, Linkara. Thank you for pointing out the horror that is this comic series:
-It spat on the very meaning of proactive Justice when really just presented wanton revenge and torture.
-Had supposedly good-hearted characters like the Atom torturing villains in the same manner that his crazy ex-wife used to accidentally kill Sue Dibny, one of his closest friends, and Hal Jordan trying to be proactive when the last time he supposedly tried he pretty much destroyed the UNIVERSE.
-Then it has the heroes acting like idiots when facing Prometheus along with several errors including his helmet somehow being rebuilt and character coloring.
-Not to mention had already suffering heroes like Roy Harper lose their strengths (his good arm) and his own daughter.
This series contributed nothing helpful besides just crapping on characters, making heroes look like revenge crazed thugs, and generally presenting more wanton death with no viable solution but more death.
I'll add that its even dumber that Hal is involved in this. Sinestro exists. The entire point of his character is that he's what happens when one grasps too tightly to order and law over the rights of the individual. So why would Hal think its a good idea to ignore someone's right to be innocent until proven guilty?
Promethius seems like the ultimate Mary-Sue.
Kaltagstar96 Yeah, Promethius is what TV Tropes would describe as either a Villain sue, God mode Sue, or because this is an Official work of DC Comics, a Canon Sue.
TheArceusftw I'd say he also falls under 'Boring Invincible Villain' I'm not going to lie I had never heard of Promethius before this series. I can buy someone like Joker or Lex Luthor or even Sinestro pulling these kinda tricks out but not some D-Lister.
Kaltagstar96 He was created as evil Batman. So not D-List, just new and lame. lol Think his first appearance was in the 90s.
LupineShadowOmega I would say Owl-Man is an Evil Batman to be honest.
Kaltagstar96 He's actually evil Batman, though technically I think he and Bruce are brothers or at the very least he's from a dimension where Bruce has a brother. But Promethius is just evil Batman from a archetype and background standpoint.
DC Comics: Suck is the new Status Quo! And Batman! Lots and lots of Batman! If we could, we'd make everyone Batman!
Grey Summers I gave up on DC after the New 52 Line Up. I may have been a Johnny Come Lately around the time the first Iron Man movie came out and with my exposure to Batman being limited to BTAS and the Nolan movies but what they did to Mr. Freeze was just awful.
Christian Neihart What, him becoming a mother-killing creep didn't do it for you? Shocking.
Seriously DC, what made you think this was a GOOD change?
TheNumnutRandomness They are so drunk on Batman that they are even bringing Frank Miller back for Dark Knight 3.
+Dylan Ogg They had retconned his wife into NOT being his wife and instead being a long time ago frozen woman who he had an obsessive stalker-crush on. TO BE FAIR, this was Pre-Rebirth and it's possible that Rebirth will reveal that Batman was merely mistaken since they've shown that they're really not afraid to take Bruce down a few pegs now (I mean, he got beaten by the Power Rangers in their crossover when in any other crossover, he'd have won because he's Batman).
RyutheWeredragon Which Power Ranger team was it?
I've gone through this review series a few times in little marathons, going through the entire Atop the Fourth Wall playlist all the way to the episode that concluded the "entity" storyline and even a little into the "where's my magic" storyline. In all those episodes, I have seen Linkara angry. I've seen him pissed off. I've seen him scream and break down from a comic. But this is the first time that I've seen Louis, not Linkara, truly, purely enraged. It's been one thing hearing Linkara's rants about bad continuity, horrible characterization, nonsensical stories and idiotic evil plans. It's another entirely to hear Louis go out of character to rant about what happened to one of his most favorite teams and, arguably, his most favorite child character. The way he flat out growls when he calls the story "exploitive, badly written trash" is actually a little scary, and it alone tells you just how passionate he is about his comics.
it hit him pretty hard
It pretty much starts at 23:16 when he first mentions Lee Ann Harper's corpse and it goes on to about 25:21 when he finally actually gets back to the comic.
He's even more pissed in Holy Terror!
And now we know why, around four years later, Linkara was elated in his JLA/Avengers review when he saw Prometheus getting knocked out by Captain America in one single panel.
How to sum up this piece of shit's Issue #7 in a minute:
"I AM SO SMART, LOOK AT HOW SMART I AM!"
"Damn, he is smart!"
"I AM SO SMART THAT EVEN MY PANTS ARE SMART! THAT IS HOW SMART AND EVIL I AM! OH, WHOOPS, MY SUPER-SMART DEVICES ARE ACTUALLY NOT THAT SMART! BUT I AM TOTALLY STILL SMART!"
"Damn, if only we were smart!"
*CHILD DEATH OF CHARACTER NEVER FEATURED IN COMICS BEFORE!*
"Welp, better let the villain go. He's just too smart."
"HAHAHAHAHAHA! BACK TO BEING SMART IN MY LAIR OF SMARTNESS!"
" ARRGH, A POINTY STICK"
You may be smart, but... Are you Batman?
*whispers* I'm Batman
"Justice"
I understood that reference.
Boy, this is gonna result in a hi-*larious* spin-off miniseries!
I think Lian's death is probably one of the three worst comic book moments out of all the comics you've reviewed so far (the other two were the Wasp's death from Ultimatum and all of Holy Terror).
Florence B What of ASBaR and One More Day?
Those two are #4 and #5 on my list. While bad, they lack pointless child deaths, cannibalism, and gratuitous bigotry by the supposed heroes that put the other three higher on my list.
Ah I see, the downright offensive outweighs pure stupidity. Gotcha
You know what's great about the Atop The 4th Wall storylines? If someone asks if Linkara can do it better, he can point to the stories that he tells in AT4W. I have never seen a whole storyline, but what's there is pretty damn good for what essentially amounts to a zero budget TV show.
Justice League: Cry for Off-Panel Supporting Character Genocide.
It's Dan Didio's fetish
@@jakebryant3445Dan Dildo
The thing is though that there is a potentially good idea buried in this book but it was ruined.
The story it should be is that Hal is charged with defending the whole planet, and sector, and that means he shouldn't let borders stop him bringing about Justice.
This could have led to the JLA saying he couldn't be a part of them if he didn't respect the borders and laws of the world and him starting his own team which is tasked with bringing criminals to justice no matter where they hide.
The team would have joined up feeling that too many were escaping justice and that they had lost enough friends already.
This could have led to a confrontation with the rest of the world and even a conflict with the main league.
This could easily lead to either the threat of war or terrorist attack as a result of Hal's abuse of power.
In the end you could have had Hal have to turn himself over to these governments to stand trial for his ignorant breaking of the laws and have the message of the book be that being a Superhero and being a Law Enforcement Officer are two different things and while his intentions were good, justice has to be a reflection of society and that he was becoming no better than Sinestro.
That could have been a good story.
I wish that we had gotten the story you described here. Good story, character growth, and a good way to build up tension in later books that could have made a great event.
When some rando on a youtube comments section can craft a better superhero story than a "professional" comic book writer.
I like it but I only have one issue and not even your fault. Ok so anyone remember superman 701 where superman looked inside a drug dealer home and the drug dealer said admissable in court? I ask what is since it gets hard to explain it away easily when these aspects barely get brought up.
I don't read Green Arrow stuff but I always heard Black Canary gets shafted in order to make Ollie look better. Looking at this, I suppose it's true. It's normal for a wife to be worried but that is just going overboard for Dinah. Couldn't her hubby at least call her or send her a letter?
This is the arc that killed Lian? It deserves every bit of hate, no excuse. Her death was one of the most unneeded in DC history
You're not wrong. I did not like how her character was handled on Arrow or how they killed her off. I think the creator of the show even admitted he wasn't a fan of the character in the comic, which most likely affected how she would be portrayed.
It just came to me, in JLA act of God, when Supergirl trained with Batman, she renamed herself as justice, since she didn't got anyone to be justice with her, she became justice alone
It's really sad when a reviewer that rants about bad comics on the internet, is making up much better stories and characters than "professional" writers for big time comic book companies. Or maybe it's the fact that Linkara is his own editor, and nobody is mucking up his work.
I'd say its the latter. Linkara has complete editorial control over hid channel. James Robinson doesn't have that.
@@RenaldyCalixte except one would assume that editors would know things like Kryptonians don't give a shit about "magical energy" and instead are weak to magic for the reasons that everyone is. You know, because you have to have direct magical resistance to defend against it.
@@LupineShadowOmega editors dont look for continuity stuff like that ever honestly they used to but havent in like 20 years now theyre too busy making sure the words come out of the right people's mouth and mess that up
Complete creative freedom isn't always a good thing. Look at the films of Neil Breen, or the later works of Anne Rice
@@LupineShadowOmega it's not so much a weakness as a vulnerability. Kryptonians are weak to Kryptonite because it affects them worse than it does anyone else. They are vulnerable to magic because it affects them the same as everyone else. So yeah, being around magic won't hurt them, but they would get hurt if they were punched by Captain Marvel due to magic being the source of his power.
Linkara was right: dc kept lian dead until 2021-22 in infinite frontier. And she’s a lil older too apparently (and roy finally ditched his “trademark trucker hat”)
You know how most villains reflect something on the hero? I like how Vyce instead reflects something on another villain: the Entity. They both have a deep pathological need to just conquer EVERYTHING, and will not hesitate to take whatever new body or form to escape any hardships that pin them down
That's why I love this plot line; Vyce in his desire for revenge and his hope to save day has become the thing he hates.
Thankfully, Lian Harper got resurrected in the Convergence crossover.
Maria Cline true but problem we haven't seen her since the ending of convergence
@@TevyaSmolka Yeah but still, she's alive, Roy got back his cool status and this comic can go screw itself.
dnmstarsi yeah that’s true and you’re right about that
@@TevyaSmolka *side-eyes Heroes in Crisis* Ummm, about that...
Cassie damn you heroes In crisis you ruined everything
+Linkara-AtoptheFourthWall I've rarely seen you so enraged over a bad comic before. But given the circumstances, and how it personally affected you, I'd say your hatred was absolutely justified. If my favorite character in a comic or TV show was pointlessly killed off for shock value, I'd be just as pissed off about it as you.
I still don't forgive Frank Miller for the abomination that was Dark Knight Strikes Again. So many things done wrong in only three issues. Sloppy artwork, a story that was completely convoluted and disconnected, wooden dialogue, and blatant character assassination. Especially involving Wonder Woman, Superman, and even Dick Grayson. Nothing is more infuriating than seeing my favorite comic characters destroyed for the sake of badly written stories. I watched Linkara's review, and I was disappointed that he glossed over how Miller had purposely defiled the aforementioned three just to prop Batman up.
RIP Charlie
Look at all they've done with Ice purely for shock.
Oh apparently they brought Lian back to life somehow and it gets weirder from there.
And I quote: It is revealed in DC Festival of Heroes: The Asian Superhero Celebration that teenage vigilante and Catwoman supporting character Cheshire Cat, aka Shoes, is Lian Harper, alive and apparently suffering from amnesia.
Are you serious?
@@thomasraines1396 Yes.
@@joshuaingobo1559 wow.
Another thing is that considering several of the league members use magic, if magical energy were lethal to kryptonians I'm fairly sure Superman would be long dead due to the energies used by various villains AND heroes of the league.
Well, it took over ten years but Lian Harper is alive in the main DC universe as of today.
Hooray, it took them a decade to fix what never should've happened to begin with!
@@jsb6975.ah.crapbaskets It probably would have happened sooner if the New 52 didn't happen but yeah it's awful.
Jeez Linkara. This Atop the Forth Wall storyline is so convoluted, it's like a superhero comi... ooooooh....
Except written in a good way and not like Gay For Justice.
Prometheus: As I speak, these heroes are recovering from the latest threat. This '"Blackest Night."
Me: DON'T YOU DARE MENTION THAT AWESOME STORY-LINE IN YOUR PIECE OF CRAP MINI-SERIES!
Samuel Johnson
Agreed.
Hey, at least we know he'll eventually get his comeuppance (kinda-sorta) at the hands of Captain America in JLA/Avengers.
Green Lantern was one of the few titles that didn't get fucked up during Dan Didio's tenure at DC. Kudos to Geoff Jhans.
To be fair considering how the Shade's apearence kept changing throughout Cry for Justice maybe Promethius just didn't recognise him...that or this book should be re-titled "Cry for plotholes"
Remember when Vyce's obsession with the entity was still justified? Nostalgic times.
I love how your ending sketch was more fun and had better writing than an the DC comic you reviewed in this video. Keep up the amazing work.
You know there is a better way to write a convincing intelligent villain who has back ups for dealing with superhero’s.
I point to a 90’s classic and one of my favorites, Dark Kat from SWAT Kats. This guy ran on this trope and was rather well written. He made a habit of studying the heroes for weaknesses he could exploit to delay them interfering with his plans, rigged his hideouts and death traps to blow if someone found them or found a way to get out of the original death trap because he anticipated they could find a way out of it and the explosion would in theory be the countermeasure to this and he still would get his ass handed to him.
That’s the problem with Prometheus here, he pulls too many contrivances out of his ass and isn’t beaten. It’s unrealistic that he’d be undefeatable he’s not a Demi god or supreme being, he’s just some asshole with data disks on superheroes and a fancy helmet
D.C never plays by its own rules. Characters are always fluctuating. Sometimes they are faster than light, sometimes they aren't, sometimes they have incredible strength and invulnerability, sometimes they don't.
I just can't suspend my disbelief far enough to get into the comics.
One reason why I stopped reading DC Comics. I would like one comic series that keeps characters and their powers consistent.
This was only a problem from like 2006 to 2019, and the person to thank for that is Dan Didio!
Edit: Dan Didio!!! I'm begining to hate the very sound of that name!
Here, let me fix the whole Lian Harper death part since DC won't:
Lian was never killed during the events of Cry for Justice. The body they thought was her was a clay copy from Clayface (similar to Annie from the New Batman Adventures episode "Growing Pains"). Lian was kidnapped before the destruction by Bane before going off to fight the vengeance seeking Justice League so he could train her as his new apprentice (a plan he concocted before being enlisted by Prometheus). He used Clayface to create a substitute to take her place before Clayface did the whole bombing bullshit from Cry from Justice (the clay version being the Lian Roy was talking to before Prometheus attacked him). The doctors were paid off to make her look like a real corpse just in case Palmer checked. The shaking coffin was the clay-Lian trying to escape from her confinement. By making Lian watch her father succumb easily to his drug addiction, he showed how the heroic father she once looked up to easily descended into a degenerate drug crazed villain. He convinces Lian to train under him to become a better person and skilled fighter though that's mostly so she can become his lackey and groom her as a possible future leader of his organization but chooses not to expose her to the venom saying its because of its addictive qualities like the drugs that Roy Harper is using (though it's actually so she doesn't become stronger than him). She becomes a skilled fighter over the years looking over her father promising to be a better hero than he ever was not knowing of Bane's ambitious intent.
THERE! I FIXED THE LIAN HARPER CONTROVERSY AND I'M NOT EVEN A SKILLED WRITER, DC COMICS!
can we get this in fanfic format? i wanna read this since it's actually kinda cool and far better than the schlock we get nowadays from DC.
Already this is a better plot than Cry For Justice
The costume you put together for Lord Vice just looked awesome Linkara, you did an amazing job with it!~
I haven't read CRY FOR JUSTICE ( the only DC character I regularly follow is Batman; I'm more of a Marvel fan) but I can feel Linkara's pain here. SPIDER-MAN: ONE MORE DAY offends me in the same way as I can't look at the Spider-Man comics I love without thinking of that abomination of a comic! I swear, the one thing to come out of OMD was Superior Spider-Man, which brought redemption to Doc Ock as a character.
But anyway, OMD & CRY FO JUSTICE are definitely epic FAILS on that level... THESE COMICS SUCK!!!
Same with me and Man of Steel. Ruined DC movies for me.
Dec Hardcat Eh... I'm indifferent to that movie. Loved the Nostalgia Critic's review of it though (it's actually my favorite review of his)! Still, Christopher Nolan's THE DARK KNIGHT TRILOGY is sensational! BATMAN BEGINS and the THE DARK KNIGHT are among my Top 5 movies of all-time (THE DARK KNIGHT RISES was a great conclusion, though flawed in some areas).
***** I loved SUPERIOR as it allowed Doc Ock to understand what it truly meant to be a hero and redeem himself. The scene where he erases all of his own memories in order to ensure that Peter is the only one left in his mind will always be a deeply powerful moment in my eyes, I loved his romance with Anna Maria, and I felt him wanting to save lives fit within the context of Octavius wanting to use his genius for the benefit of mankind.
If you don't like it, that's fine. I'm just asking that you respect my opinion is all. Still though... I don't understand why SUPERIOR SPIDER-MAN is included in Linkara's Spider-ban, as it's technically not about Peter Parker, but Otto Octavius (yeah he's in Peter's body, but still). Could someone please explain why to me? I don't understand it at all...
+The Masquerade Have you tried the DLC expansion pack? Apparently the developers listened to the fans and fixed the problems the fans had with it. According to Angry Joe at any rate.
Naruto doesnt exist
I think whoever wrote this thought that Prometheus' helmet turns him in to Amazo
how many people would've preferred a shoehorned in scene with rose Wilson telling Roy leane is ok.
@22:48-25:09
At that moment, whenever DC comics hear or see the reviews of Cry for Justice and the controversy of killing off Roy Harper's daughter, Lian. They obviously knew that deep down they have fucked up. Now, thanks to the Convergence tie-in books and DC Rebirth, the death of Lian Harper in Cry for Justice was a mistake and it must never happen again.
Agreed, Unless a Kid character Is obnoxious or Bratty Killing off a Child character IS NOT COOL! Infact, It crosses the line... TWICE!
+TheArceusftw True, true.
+TheArceusftw it is not supposed to be cool what it is supposed to do is have a impact on the story so that if they didn't die the story would be significantly different in fact this goes for all charterers if not then their death is pointless and only serves to make the story worst
I think, in a better comic, Prometheus utterly dismantling the justice league would be an awesome way to make him a massive threat.
Shame it was done by making everyone else a moron.
When they want the villain to win, they buff the fuck out of the villain and preemptively brain damage all of the heroes
Thank you for debunking the magic/kryptonite myth. It's as annoying as the one where Charles Moulton Marsten created the Lasso of Truth because he worked on the lie detector. Moulton's lasso compelled obedience. Or that she's a sword wielding badass, or where Batman is a hardcore obsessed vigilante or The Joker is not a master criminal but an insane clown whose only motive is craziness.
I feel like if I were a superhero who caught Promethius, I'd probably smash his helmet rather than give it back.
Are they stupid?
Missed opportunity: Not doing the Christian Bale Batman voice when Congorilla was shouting "WHERE IS HE?!?"
From what I've read, Lian's death was an editorial mandate.
As if we needed any more proof that the editors should not be in charge of the writers stories.
Agreed
Really sporting of Lord Vice to let you run around like that instead of just finishing you off :)
The logic I had with a lot of this fight (since Will could do more complex fight moves) is that Vyce is so powerful he doesn't need to expend any effort. He's the one in control of this situation and he'll take as much time as he wants. =)
All of this people yelling, "JUSTICE!!" just makes me think of that awful DareDevil film.
If it makes you feel better, Lian was brought back in Convergence:Titans.
I lost it when he gave all his plans to the justice league
11:36 Which is why I like that in the New 52, he can say Shazam in conversations, but the lightning only comes down when he means it with good intentions. The Care Bears would be proud.
Not really that big a deal
+KidSnivy69 I suppose, I just think it's a nice touch :)
Potatobombkyle Lego Productions Touche
This comic ended my long associaton with dc comics until the new 52 happened (then I ended it again two years later when comics i liked were cancelled and almost everything didn't appeal to me) Lians death offended me in a level similar to Lewis. It made me question what the hell was even the point of collecting comics. I threw out several years worth of comics I was that sick of myself being a fan at that point. I still even now only get cheap uk reprints and sonic and megaman comics. But yeah this review is amazing Linkara/lewis pretty much lays down everything I felt back in 2009 when this trash manifested itself into existence. Thinking about this comic turns my stomach so I'll end by saying thank you linkara....thank you for this review you made something good out of something awful and that takes serious skill
What comic did you like that was canceled?
ystin The brought Lian back apparently, still doesn't fix them being complete morons and doing this in the first place. I love the Titans as well, and hate how much DC hates them in recent years.
I can’t believe this story was nominated for the Eisner Award for Best Writing! I know beauty is in the eye of the beholder, but was this comic really that well received when it came out? A comic about the process of choosing which comics get nominated and win every year would be a hell of a lot more interesting than this piece of crap!
WHO'D GIVE THIS AN EISNER?!
Tareltonlives Wait what I thought it was rise of arsenal that got nominated for a Eisner not this trainwreck
@@TevyaSmolka Rise of Arsenal actually won (I repeat WON) the Prism Award for “having an accurate portrayal of substance abuse and mental illness” which really makes me tip my head a bit. To its credit, Roy does slowly break down and alienates himself from everyone around him, so that’s accurate behavior. But the execution of the story is incredibly goofy and made all the more funny by Roy’s constant whining, poorly placed attempts at humor, and, of course, CHINA CAT!
@@matthewjarek3026 how does that make any sense because that entire story was just a complete and utter mess.
@@Tareltonlives Mauro Cascioli also received a nomination for Best Painter for his work on the first five issues. I’ll admit his art is very good and I wish he was more popular, but it annoys me that such talent was wasted on this comic. To give you more of an idea, one of my favorite comics, Wolverine: Old Man Logan by Mark Millar, received nominations for Best Limited Series and Best Penciller that same year.
Imagine being a supervillain and creating a bomb that can kill Kryptonians and a major Green Lantern and instead of using it to actually kill superheroes, you stop it from working in order to gain their trust (even though Captain Marvel is already a superhero, so presumably they should already trust him). In general, the fact that Prometheus in this story clearly has the capability to kill immensely powerful superheroes but simply refused to do so for weak reasons is kind of pathetic. I mean, sure, villains missing opportunities to kill their enemies isn't exactly rare in action stories, but this feels like a very extreme version of that.
In other words, the perfect supervillain for conspiracy theorists: perpetually too strong to beat yet conveniently quite beatable, and irredeemably evil so you're justified in dealing with him however you want.
You know watching this I had a thought you know how in rebirth they're doing the whole thing with characters coming back as people remember they existed like Barry pulling Wally back into exisistence, wouldn't it be such a beautiful moment to have Roy do the same with Lian.
Couldn't you just see him crying and screaming about how horrible he was to forget her as he pulls her back into continuity you could even explain her die as sone trick or deception that ties into the rest of the plot you know some tragedy designed to make Roy a worse person by taking a source of strength from him blah blah. I think it could be really good too bad it won't happen
"Nanites! Courtesy of Prometheus."
The comments about revenge made me think about a realization I had recently. Entitled people who harm and harass others don't know they're the villains in an entitled people story; they think they're the heroes in a revenge story. When they purposely aggravate someone who nicely requested that they stop doing something aggravating, try to take someone's item as "compensation" for an imagined wrong, or threaten to get someone fired or deported for simply doing their job, they're also thinking about how they'll post the story online to get sympathy and "Internet points". That's why I've decided I don't like reading revenge stories on Reddit- you never know what the other side really is.
"Arsenal is a single father, something you don't see a lot in comics. remember that."
Oh, shit, they're gonna kill his child . . .
Edit: Eyup.
Maybe (probably) I'm the confused one, but it was my understanding that it's not that Kryptonians are vulnerable to magic in an absolute sense, but that they are just as vulnerable to it as a human; i.e., a force bolt that merely breaks a rib or two on a human will only break a rib or two on a Kryptonian, rather than crush the Kryptonian's entire rib cage.
DC's employment process: One of the questions is "How many supporting characters are you willing to kill for an event miniseries?" The answer is. "Yes"
You know now that I think about it, since he hates Cry for Justice more than Countdown and Amazons Attack combined why didn't he burn it? Oh yeah, the Lord Vyce thing.
Delano's run on Animal Man is good too. And Lemire.
I always assumed the reason for going to Animal Man is that Congorilla has a preexisting friendship with him from their days in The Forgotten Heroes.
Waitwaitwait... you have a UA-cam channel now? THAT was the only thing that kept me from watching consistently (I couldn't keep up with TGWTG and other things since I primarily watch videos on mobile, I know, foolish of me). Consider me IMMEDIATELY subscribed.
S'all good. ^_^ If it helps for catching up, there is always my site, which has a consistently-organized archive. XD
Well… It seems they have brought Lian back to life finally, but she’s a little older, has amnesia and is under the name Cheshire Cat. What are your thoughts on that, or have you not caught up on it?
Before Joshua Williamson’s first issue of Green Arrow (spoilers by the way) made sure that Lian (with her memories restored) would see Roy Harper (and the Green Arrow family) again!
28:00 what worse is that this could’ve been good character development for Green Arrow he’s practically saying I know we want justice for the people hes killed but we have to think of the millions of not billons of people that will die if we don’t give him his freedom then they ruin it with Green Arrow actually getting revenge of Promethese so that message sent out about we should focus on protecting lives is thrown out
No offence but this whole comic reads like a bad fanfic. I would think people paid to do this would do a better job then something I'd write when I was writing at thirteen.
Trust me, there are bad fanfics out there that spit and laugh on this official published storyline!
No. Mean offense. This is awful and should be detested by all.
GrandCorsair I've seen teens run DC tabletop RPG campaigns that spit on this as crappy storytelling and mischaracterization.
21:27 what worse it’s a simple change to make it less bad
I’ve had a plan Incase i failed and was captured the devices I’ve set up are rigged to explode taking the cities they are planted in with them. Here’s my ultimatum either let me go or say goodbye to the cities you love either way I win. If you let me go I’m free I can go on to make a new plan and get my revenge eventually. If you don’t you can’t deactivate the bombs in time and I get my revenge anyways
It took me 5 seconds of thinking about how stupid this was to come up with this
"Surprisingly Caucasian Firestorm" Gets me everytime🤣🤣
Good news. Lian is finally back.
"Why put the helmet back on Prometheus?"
"Duh, the reader would not know who the guy in the chair was without the helmet" -DC Editorial, probably
The best thing to come out of this wretched Comic mini-series is how Linkara recaps it in the Top 15 Worst Comics video.
I always kind of hoped he'd burn this one, but I bet the whole "being attacked by an interdimensional conqueror" deal put it on the back burner. I just assume Linkara shot this POS comic out of one of Comicron 1's airlocks and into the sun.
Lord Vice, Detective Pikachu confirmed.
Honestly, this feels the guy wanted to write a story where villains do horrible things, more than heroes fighting horrible things. It’s a feeling I’ve felt before.
"Caucasian Firestorm"...Ronnie Raymond. The character that was brought back during Blackest Knight (the comic that started a month prior to Justice League Cry for Justice). It is possible that the events of Cry for Justice occured prior to Blackest Night (making the Firestorm at the time Jason Rusch), but that would suggest an editorial error or miscommunication with the artist.
Indeed, it was supposed to be Jason Rusch at the time.
@@AT4W Ah, thanks.
I've been watching the storyline episodes for a while (mostly to catch up) and all I can say is, wow. You can write some really good personal stories for the show. Keep up the good work!
It stuns me that under all that modulation, Vyce is voiced by Lewis.
How come bad comics don't even compare to the nightmare that is Lord Vyce. Like that's a real villain!
Wow. Linkara learned NOTHING from his fight with Mechakara. He just tried to throw several punches at Lord Vyce!! What was that going to accomplish, other than bruised knuckles?!!?
Okay I read animal man. It introduced Freedom Beast, an amazing character. Then this book killed him off to make a guy he spoke to once feel sad.
4:52 Okay I know that electrified things don't actually have the blue static bolts coming out of them unless they're being burnt to hell but there's a reason we kept seeing that: because it's otherwise impossible to TELL! (visually I mean, in real-life you could probably smell the air burning)
Actually, I'm pretty sure that after Trials of Shazam, Freddy Freeman COULD say SHAZAM without transforming and could actually transform just by thinking it. Also, his hero name was now SHAZAM. As these were fairly recent developments, it's perfectly understandable Supergirl wouldn't know his new status. I guess he might have been public enough that people know he'd replaced Billy, so Prometheus impersonated him and not Billy.
I know a lot of super villains are smart but why do they want to complicate everything.
You know what I find funny about this comic? The fact that issue five was released with a cover that showed Captain Marvel and Supergirl kissing. I guess that Robinson wanted to make them a couple but DC probably decided against it. Yet another last minute change DC forced someone to make to their story. I don’t know how old they both are or if they were the same age, but I guess late teens or early twenties. Knowing the twist that Freddy was Prometheus the whole time adds a lot of squick to it, and that’s only if that was in the original plan. I can understand making the change, but I don’t understand why they would keep the cover. If you saw the cover you would go “Oh, I guess Supergirl and Captain Marvel get together in this issue.” But they don’t so that makes the issue seem like a complete lie. The only evidence of their relationship ever being a possibility is Supergirl calling Freddy “super cute” when she confronts Prometheus, which totally ruins any of the drama the scene has to offer. I wonder if the series would have actually been decent if there hadn’t been so many changes to the original idea.
Again, I assumed that The Shade's moral flip-flopping isn't widely known in the villain community so they tried to recruit him. (Since he tended to be a 'hero' in Opal and a villain everywhere else.)
Still him planing to take down every hero but not any of the villains doesn't make much sense its not like they all agree about everything and some would have reasons to kill him.
Another addition to how bad this comic is with writing women: Kara unnecessarily bringing up that she thinks Freddy is cute in the middle of trying to tell people that he’s an imposter for no reason. This extraneous heteronormativity is also annoying when you consider the popularity of sapphic readings of Kara over the years in fandom (mostly centered in relation to Barbara Gordon and more recently Lena Luthor) so it’s always eye rolling to get hit over the head with “she likes boys!”
I understand your point about it being weird for Kara to bring up Freddy being cute in that instance, but are you saying that just making Supergirl straight is an inherently bad thing? I doubt that's what you mean, but it's sort of what it sounds like - like just mentioning Supergirl liking males is bad because it doesn't match fan ideas.
@@taliad.1020 no, I was trying to say that bludgeoning a reader over the head with heteronormativity like that can come across a trying to deny fans their personal reading of a character.
We need a rotten tomatoes for super heroes comics
So… what did Vyce DO to Pyramid Head? Did he just… devour his essence or something?
Sort of, yeah.