Flashpoint - Atop the Fourth Wall
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- Опубліковано 29 тра 2017
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Welcome to Atop the Fourth Wall, where bad comics burn. Event Comics Month concludes with a look at the DC event Flashpoint!
atopthefourthwall.com
Originally released May 30th, 2017.
ORIGINAL INFO: Short for, "Flash, what was even the point?" - Комедії
So in the Flashpoint universe, Superman's arrival devastated Metropolis and Batman's a violent murderer? Dammit, Barry, did you create the DCEU too?!
LittleWebHead 87 best comment down here
LittleWebHead87...Why don't you have more likes?!
That makes WAY too much sense.
It can’t be just a coincidence.
Though ironically in Flashpoint Aquaman and Wonder Woman end up destroying the world. While in the DCEU there the only ones keeping it together.
Thomas Wayne is still a better Batman than Crazy Steve
Trevor Anthony well until he came back recently thanks to Tom king Batman run
No. crazy Steve is hilarious and much better than other iterations...
No. crazy Steve is hilarious and much better than other iterations...
@@TevyaSmolka agreed Thomas working with bane made him just as bad as crazy Steve if not worse. At least in my eyes.
@@changvasejarik62 indeed and that drove me nuts because knowing Thomas Wayne flashpoint batman history there's no way in hell he would try to sabotage his son's life but apparently tom king forgot about and threw it out the window for nonsense.
I'm Deathstroke, I'm going to be *King of the Pirates*!
42ndLife He even got the eye-patch!
+Cobrashere You know, I could totally see that being a thing.
Y A R H A R F I D D L E D E E D E E
Everyone in this comment chain excluding myself is a god damn genius that should be preserved after death as an example of how amazing comment sections could be.
The one time in a DC event where Deathstroke DOESN'T kill characters that I liked. LOL
The worst part of Barry coming back is that a lot of younger writers now tend to write Barry with Wally's mannerisms and personality. Case in point, Barry Allen in the upcoming Justice League movie.
You are right. That were many stories in the new 52 flash that felt more like Wally than Barry. Thanks Geoff
@@leonardomaranhao2861 DC Editorial shares some of the blame, because they forced Geoff to make FP into a huge event that rebooted everything instead of a stand alone flash event.
I’m not comic buff but apparently the original Barry was as interesting as a bland piece of toast, when he was restructured they gave him a full personality overhaul.
Thomas Raines
Basically. From what I heard, Barry’s big thing was he taught kids reading about fun science facts, which was the origin of “flash fact”, which gets references a lot in modern comics.
This was inspiration for Barry’s modern personality of being scientist at heart. And a giant dork
Or the entire CW TV show
I love the scene between Bruce and Barry at the end. It really makes the whole event feel worth happening (as a stand-alone, not the new-52 change)
Bruce validating Barry by saying “yeah, I would’ve done it too” not only shows his kindness as a friend, but also shows more of Bruce not being perfect. It’s maybe one of my favourite scenes in DC. I love the personal stuff.
Same here.
I just realized... Flash was brought back in final crisis, Flash caused Flashpoint which caused the new 52 and would lead to rebirth...Final Crisis is connected to Countdown.
So every bad comic following Flashpoint can all be linked back to countdown: The Culling, Red Hood and The Outlaws, New 52 Blue Beetle, Batman: The Dark Knight, The Gift, and Heroes In Crisis
Was Nu52 BB that bad??
@@jfdrac If you watched the Blue Beetle Retrospective on the New 52 Blue Beetle, then yes it’s that bad.
@@joshuaingobo1559 Oh I get it was bad....but the CULLING Bad? Thats not bad thats Superbad
Bees my god
“If your mom have been killed by a supervillain from the future and altered your past, you’ve probably wanna hug her when she shows up alive again too”
Lucina knows that feeling right there.
Protect best girl!
Never use time travel to fix your problems. It never goes well...
My point exactly...
Grr. How many times must I tell you idiots. She does not and has NEVER loved me. And I'm just fine with that. Otherwise, I wouldn't have taken this terrible job in the first place! Marty McFly, I am not...
Yup. Ask Booster. Saved Ted..and the whole world is overrun by OMACs.
-it worked for future trun....oh wait it didn't
-it worked for samurai ja...well...that's debatable
...yeah,time travel is confusing...
Yoshikage Kira would be nodding in agreement if he still had his head ;)
I think Geoff Johns in a commentary for the Flashpoint Paradox animated feature said that this was not going to be a reboot until the powers that be said it was to be a reboot.
It was because Time Warner was threatening to pull the plug on DC
Flashpoint: ALL YOUR FAULT, BARRY! ALL YOUR FAULT!
Seriously, Barry..you know time travelers. Ask them why they don't go back and rescue their loved ones from death? Hell, ask Booster Gold what happened when he rescued Ted from getting shot by Max. Seriously, World's Fastest Man...slowest thinker in comics.
He's supposed to be a scientist yet he's the worst dumbest man....
What he should be asking is why the hell his Mom suddenly died when, up until The Flash: Rebirth, she was apparently alive and well?
And then it was recently revealed that Barry didn't change the past. Eobard Thawne kidnapped Barry while he was time traveling, brought him to another universe, and gaslighted Barry into thinking he had caused this timeline. Meaning that Thawne manipulated Barry into stopping himself from saving his mother.
Damn it Barry!
Malcom Alexander ...SERIOUSLY?!
Given how insanely popular Batman and Wolverine both are for their respective companies, I’m honestly shocked that Marvel and DC haven’t figured out a way to make Dark Claw a regular ongoing
If it was just Marvel and DC it could happen but once Time Warner and Disney got involved that went out the window
"Batman? Well of course I've heard of Batman."
"Actual conversation from inside one of DC's executive offices."
Oh god, that's the hardest I've laughed since Guardians Vol. 2.
@@jonbrewer297 It needs literally 2 minutes: "Yeah, I used to be Robin, but I wanted to move away from becoming like Batman, so I changed identities and hometowns." Boom, done.
30:10 Despite it being all of a single scene, Kevin Conroy honestly deserves some sort of award for his reading of this scene in the Flashpoint animated movie. After 30 years of him being the definitive voice of Batman, that emotional connection to the way it goes down is just heartwrenching. The music really makes the scene even more powerful, because it intentionally uses the Batman TAS style music but segues into a bit of piano at the end and it really just feels like the proper Batman getting closure.
RIP Kevin Conroy and thank you for being Batman
You know, an alternate reality where Thomas and Bruce die and Martha becomes a Batwoman would be awesome! Makes more sense than her becoming the Joker.
it makes sense for her to became the joker tough, i mean HER SON DIED ON HER ARMS and she couldnt do anything about it of course she was gonna get insane
Then why didn't Thomas become the Joker? Why did Martha go insane despite experiencing the exact same thing as Thomas? Is this to imply that Martha is somehow an unstable person? Brilliant characterization comic. Martha Wayne has never shown to be so poorly adjusted that she would snap from grief and decide to become a supervillain. Lot's of people have gone through the same thing she has, and not gone completely Joker-level crazy. It's kind of misogynist when you think about it.
GeneralKenobi75 lots of people have gone thourgh the same or worse than bruce wayne yet they don't dress in A FREAKING BAT COSTUME AND BEAT UP CRIMINALS YOU FUCKING SJW.
the characterization of martha wayne was fine she was a women that we can assume had a perfect life and the BAM son gets shot and DIES IN HER ARMS of course she's gonna snap
and thomas wayne DID go insane too I mean did you even read the cómic!? he is a vialont psychopath that dresses in a BAT COSTUME murders people and lives in a broken mansion alone
So because I find them choosing to make a hysterical woman into a supervillain because apparently women can't handle grief like men can misogynist, I'm a SJW. Good to know you're so "open-minded" in arguments. Also, you people like to toss around SJW to label anyone who disagrees with you based on their views, I do not think it means what you think it means In the comics Martha was philanthropist who fought tooth and nail to make life better for the city. She did not do nothing in her perfect life and it seems someone like that would become even more driven to help others after losing someone close. It's never inevitable that they'll just snap after that. They'll never be normal after that, but not necessarily supervillan crazy.
GeneralKenobi75 I do see where both of you are coming from. And I believe you both made some good points despite the bitterness you both displayed. In response to the misogyny claims I think that’s a stretch, you can claim you dislike it and why but I still think that’s a reach. so someone who was once good can’t become evil due to insanity, you do realize the same can be said about Harvey dent aka two faced, who was a model citizen and was built up to be Gotham’s hope until the event that led him to become a criminal. although come to think about it, he has another disadvantage separating him from Martha which is his mental illness but people’s mental capacity are different, people react to the same situation differently and like ironmaster64 said even Thomas Wayne didn’t grief normally and instead went mad but in a different way. You could speculate that Martha after losing her son became nihilistic and mad due to losing the one thing she treasured in life the most. It’s not like we haven’t seen humans in fiction or in life reacting poorly to grief. It happens, people can become insane. It’s frightening to think about it but even you and me given certain circumstances can lose our minds.
22:09 Wait, Captain Marvel is six kids combined? But does each one become Captain Marvel, or do they fuse into one Captain Marvel? Or . . . maybe they summon Captain Marvel!
Let our powers combine! Earth! Air! Fire! Water! Heart! Teenage Attitude! *Vshuuu* With your powers combined, I am CAPTAIN MARVEL!!!
They fuse together into Captain Thunder.
I would so pay money to see Captain Marvel beat up Captain Planet.
the most one sided battle since mr satan vs cell, captain marvel can beat him just by saying one word
Wait till you see the Shazam movie....
Feel free to ignore the Captain Marvel movie though, it's terrible.
@@kevmasengale6903 no it's not. It's the lower end of the MCU imo, but still entertaining. Hopefully the sequel is better though.
I do see the Batman in this as sort of a dig to the DC executives: "If he's not involved who cares", "He's super-duper powerful", etc. Don't get me wrong, I love Batman, but while Marvel give the likes of Ant-Man, Black Panther, and the Guardians of the Galaxy a chance with their own movies, DC needs to realise there are so many others outside of the Dark Knight. For crying out load, even Superman doesn't seem to be of importance anymore! :(
A GriffinTV Agree. D.C. has so much potential when it comes to characters to use. There's so many cool characters to work with from the company's long history.
One who I think would do well with a movie/TV Show is Blue Beatle Jamie Rayes. He's a teenager so that speaks to kids and his scareb and the things it has could provide so many products to sell. That and the character has a really interesting background.
And there's plenty of other characters that are really interesting and could make for great TV shows and movies yet they do nothing with them
TheTrueLissaWho I think any of the Blue Beetles could be given a good movie. Even Dan Garrett. It'd basically be like Indiana Jones with superpowers.
Dragon Sword True. Blue Beetle is a really interesting character, I just brought up Jamie in particular because he's who I think would do the best, but all would do well.
I'll bring the chips and dip! Always did like Ted and Wendell.
tl;dr DC needs to do a lot more marketing before they can make money back on smaller heroes, though young justice and teen titans where both a successful start to that and i would prefer to see the resurrection of some kind of justice league unlimited before watching DC tanking movies of characters that while are great and well written have very little star power. Oh, batman and superman both have as many movies as there are justice league movies in total with superman having a catch up movie on the way. They both definitely share with each other.
I agree that they have a ton of characters that need the spotlight and to do that they should really bring justice league unlimited or remake their own version, or even expand young justice; however, the bat scorn is real here. you guys do realize that batman and superman and face characters right. They exist to ease the new comers into a movie or series and spotlight characters that audiences wouldn't give a chance otherwise. Simply put no one outside of comic book fans (and even only a percentage of those) would give the blue beetle (especially the older ones) a chance in their own movie.
Even then in the animated movies featuring batman, superman, or the green lantern they are usually hogging the spot light. Batman rarely takes up even half of his own movies let alone justice league ones, the green lantern movies like green lantern emerald knights actually uses hal as a framing device. Where as in justice league movies batman usually gets a few cool scenes, but he hardly steals the show away from the other characters (being the main contributor of the final fight in 2 of the 9 animated justice league movies).
As for batman getting more effort than superman their current movie count is 7/10 with superman having a movie coming up and 4 of batman's movies not being about him (while all of the superman movies have him getting most of the screen time), but just including him as a character because it takes place in gotham. Green lantern has 2 with one on the way and poor wonder woman has only ever had 1.
Point being don't hate mascot characters use them to your advantage. As much as heroes are starting to get their name out there a movie premiering booster gold wouldn't make its money back, same with a red tornado movie, fire storm, or most of the other small names. They have to be paired with big names and slowly introduced through television shows, and team up movies. Really only isaac reyez blue beetle has any star power and that is because of his recent appearances in media.
That being said the only reason batman is so popular is because he has had something like 5 successful television shows spanning multiple generations and through one of them gained the goofy power of a hammer space utility belt with everything in it (thanks adam west).
The worst part is that it wasn't supposed to lead to a reboot. It was suppose to be a placeholder while DC moved offices, then that move got delayed. So New 52 was an unplanned reboot.
so convergene was the opposite of flashpoint' it hapenned due to similar reasons
The entire tagline of this series could easily be "Dammit Barry".
I saw the animated movie Flashpoint. And I liked it. A lot. It integreted the side stories very well and made me care about this alternate world. It doesn't look like the comic did so tho. I am a casual comics fan, but I am looking to rectify that.
P.S. Cyborg gorillas?! Yes please, more!
P.S.S. Hey DC, stop putting Batman in everything! He is my favorite hero, but even I am getting sick of him. Batman in Justice League Dark?! Why?? He was useless!
Trevor Anthony agreed
The reason the movie doesn't suck is because it was how Geoff Johns intended the story to be before it was executive meddling'd into being a reboot.
Scott Baldwin
As it always should have been.
@Trevor Anthony Oh yeah i agree it's so much better.
@@YouCantDeleteDenzelL the reason the movie doesn’t suck to watch is bc it’s hilarious
I'm glad Linkara doesn't ONLY do bad comics and does get to review good comics. While seeing him rage at bad comics is funny, seeing him enjoy reviewing something that's actually GOOD feels even better.
23 years? Linkara..Barry didn't die...he lost his memory, went to Marvel under the name Buried Alien aka Fastforward.
They so should have used that in one of the DC Marvel crossovers, then brought him home at the end of the comic.
SMAXZO wait is that canon
I want
@@killerbee2562
Give
Someone write
@@skyslasher2297 It is....he appeared in an issue of Quasar I believe in a race with the cosmic being THE RUNNER
7:19 There actually was a Marvel comic in which a man implied to be Barry Allen comes out of another dimension into the Marvel universe. He remembers that his name was something like "buried alien."
I love how you refer to Barry's resurrection and Wally's erasing as "...for whatever reason." Also, nice reference to Convergence restoring Lian Harper and Roy reconciling with Donna after Rise of Arsenal. :)
I think the animated movie ended up "cleaner" so to speak, the main series is fine but the tie-ins are what truly shine for me. But that may just be because this was my jump on point to comics.
Anyways awsome work this month mister Lovhaug.
I said it on the Dino Charge video, and I'll say it here.
TIME TRAVEL IS BULLSHIT!
KidSnivy96 what Dino Charge video? He hasn't done it yet. (Trust me I agree but what video?)
Rhyperior Ranger he has made his History of Dino Charge video but he hasn't released it on UA-cam. It's on his website.
KidSnivy96 lol 😂 indeed time travel is bullshit
Rhyperior Ranger yup he did it on his website
Tevya Smolka THE FUCK? I thought he wasn't gonna do it until after Ninja Steel was over. Well fuck me I got some watching to do
@12:53
"My God, you're Martha Wayne!!"
*"WHY DID YOU SAY THAT NAME?!"* 😂🤣😅😆
My only disappointment with Event Comic Month is that we didn't get to see Lewis try to explain Final Crisis in under an hour
Or him blow up over Futures End, cause honestly that pissed me off as well on FCBD. ugh
theblocksays
See the 500th episode for that.
SoulReaverDan
Thank god for event comics month 2.
Actually, if you have been picking up the latest issues of Superman you would see the slow demise of the New 52 timeline. Superman pre-flashpoint and New 52 have merged to become one, thanks to his Super-Son. The pre-flashpoint version is now the sole identity, meaning everything about New 52 Supes is nothing more than a distant memory to fans, his relationship with Wonder Woman is gone as well, never happened. Slowly but surely New52 is going away.
Trans8010 yeah but what he means is that it's still the same universe/timeline the events still happened there just changing things for the better.
New 52 had good stories though! The Brian Azzarello and Cliff Chiang Wonder Woman, the Scott Snyder and Greg Capullo Batman, and the Geoff Johns run on Aquaman
@@victorm152 I think Greg Capullo is my second favorite Batman artist behind Jim Lee and his art combined with that first Court of Owls story was amazing
Actually, the bio weapon is Terra's brother, which explains the tremors
Yup, Geo-Force is used by the Atlantean..who started this war because Aquaman's wife, Mera was killed by Wondy...who was bumping uglies with Arthur.
to be fair, in the comics, the war was actually orchestrated by Wonder Woman's adviser and Aquaman's brother
well truth be told, she only died because she tried to kill the Wonder Homewrecker.
Shiirow. That and Aquaman was also responsible for this.
My least favorite change made in Flashpoint: The removal of my favorite Flash, Wally West.
My favorite change made in Rebirth: Bringing Wally West back and getting the Titans back together, even including Omen.
Trevor Anthony
Heroes in crisis was a beautiful looking, yet god awful story.
Just read the flash-forward miniseries, it fixes his character a little.
Wally might be the main Flash again.
@@HELLO_KORO He is. Wally Is the main flash right now and he gas finally reunited with his family.
If I may go on a bit of a tangent...
... People that wrote her more recently... seem fixated on the idea that Wonder Woman can't be allowed to have a stable relationship... or a relationship at all. Or at the very least, two large examples (minor in the grand scheme, I know) just... stick out for, if she tries to have a relationship, she goes nuts.
First, we have Flashpoint. Diana and Arthur have an affair, Mera tries to murder Diana, Diana kills her and returns her severed head, thus leading to the war... and Diana assumes "all men are at fault". Not herself for the affair. Not Arthur from the affair. Gendercide must be done. As Supergirl briefly states in Convergence, it's hard to believe there's a version of Diana like that, this "never my fault" monster that basically acts like Amazons Attack 2.0.
Then... we have Injustice... In which she's written to want to be this ultimate power couple with Superman and throws away her ideals and dignity to encourage him into revenge and try to get him into a relationship with her. One of the most satisfying moments in the first game is mainstream Diana, even if the Regime Diana herself doesn't listen, spelling out to the Amazons that their current leader let her lust for one man drive her into such depravity and it drags their culture, their people, down along with her.
And yet, even in Injustice 2, Regime Diana refuses to take the "hint" that the reason everyone is against them and the reason Superman of that world is so despised by the people they protect is because, as CRANE points out, she twisted him. Heck, even HARLEY points out that her devotion to her "ideal" Superman is no different that her previous devotion to her ideal "Mistah J"... and gets run through for her trouble because, again, version of Diana cannot see past her desire for Superman and refuses to take responsibility.
Just... writers, what the hell? Did so many take the failed "pants to be darkened" pilot to heart or something?
Now, I know these are just two instances, but they just... really stand out to me as gross mistreatment of the character.
LuckyOwl Believe it or not, that was actually made for the movie. In the comic version, while Wonder Woman did kill Mera, by the time she killed her, the Amazons and Atlanteans were already at war. The only reason Mera attacked was because of Ocean Master tricking her into it, with the full knowledge that Wonder Woman would kill her and push Aquaman into using extreme methods that he would not have used (though had on standby just in case).
Ah. Okay then.
Still bothering to me. I'm not even a hardcore Wonderwoman fan and I feel... bitter about it, you know?
That was well written. It bothers me that, in the case of Wonder Woman at least, her character development (or lack thereof) is just "Diana gets a boyfriend, shit doesn't work out, and she goes psycho." She throws away everything she stood for very quickly or as you mention that she doesn't blame herself at all. "Dignity? Pride? Nah, just gonna be a warmonger cuz reasons."
LuckyOwl I refuse to call the Injustice universe's Diana Wonder Woman. I like to call her Psycho Susie. That or Wonder Bitch.
So, Bonkers Betty 2.5 then? :P
Honestly, Flashpoint is mostly a Barry story. It's the ending that changes everything. Of course it's still an event comic, but they honestly could have had it without the whole "this changes everything" thing.
Yeah like, there's a golden age Wonder Woman comic where, just for funsies, Diana and Hippolyta use the viewing globe to look 1,000 years in the future where Steve Trevor becomes president (no they don't explain how everyone is still alive and everything) and is manipulated by a villain behind the scenes and then he realizes that and gives the presidency to Diana. No consequences. I'm pretty sure the Legion of Superheroes never mentioned Diana being President. Just a silly little aside that changed nothing.
@@JaelinBezel
Chalk that up to President Diana being on Earth-Two, and the Legion on Earth-One.
So Batman questions the name "Eobard", but has no problem with the fact that the guy's first name sounds like "Thong"?
+starwarsnerd100 Don't you mean last name?
Whoops, you're right, I got them mixed up.
Watching this again makes me appreciate just how much better the animated movie was than the comic.
Let's be honest: this wasn't a reboot to attract a new generation of readers from which to start over fresh with, but absorb all of DC Universe into the Batverse
I hate that dc has now turned Shazam into their punching bag like what they did to Wally west.
DeltaPrime350 you and me both man
DeltaPrime350 when did they do that?
shazam was always a punching bag
If I may quote Angry Joe for a moment: "LEAVE SHAZAM ALONE!"
Injustice is the biggest example of that
I wonder where Pandora would rank on a list of biggest letdown / most overhyped characters. Surely somewhere up there with Dr. Judas Traveller.
"Bruce woulda gotten me coffee"! LOL
The wonder woman event wasn't just "relevant to the tie ins". It literally establishes how Reverse Flash is revealed, explains what situation everyone is in, what Wonder Woman is like in this timeline and more.
Ahhhhh..the event that started the clusterfuck that was the New52.
ItsMichaelReid lol
Yup..and it's all Barry's fault. Yes, while this is happening we got the best Lex Luthor story in The Black Ring (also a very personal thing about Luthor we all don't want to know about. Here's a hint, he made a fembot version of Lois...and it's anatomically correct.) still doesn't excuse torpedoing every other writers plans. We were going to get a JLI revival, we were going to find out who Black Beetle is...we were going to see Booster be that future badass and father to Rip Hunter, all gone...thanks to Johns..err..Barry.
I will give the new 52 some credit we did get a awesome aquaman series and Justice league dark was amazing so was animal man and swamp thing but that's about it
I think clusterfuck is too kind a description
I liked it...
Well, you weren't kidding, that was a completly underwhelming way to kick off a whole new reboot for DC, can't imagine why the new 52 was a disorganized, rushed mess when the lead up was a meh story that shoehorned in the new 52 at the last few pages
For those people complaining how Savitar got defeated in the Flash TV show, here's a comic book where the Reverse Flash dies after he's stabbed by a sword!
well sword to the back, or bullet to the head.... both are pretty lame ways to kill a speedster.
Smol Dream I have no problem wi how Savitar was defeated.
Jon Stewart I don't either, but there are a couple of people that I've seen who do.
Well, it's a big sword.
A speedster has to focus to think fast and savitar was to mad and rev. flash was gloating
As soon as I saw the notification I dropped everything. This gonna be good.
"Actual conversation inside of DC's executive office."
I can't breathe.
There's more to Flashpoint than you know besides the info and it's the behind the scenes stuff. I wanted to ask Geoff Johns personally what were the reasons behind Flashpoint but due to one of your commenters, I finally know why.
Supposedly Time Warner was going to shut down DC if they couldn't bring comic sales up. By 2011, DC wasn't doing so hot due to some of their comics being a mixed bag and I mean their big name events... like say Cry for Justice, Fall of Green Arrow, Rise of Arsenal, etc. Marvel was kicking their butts and Time-Warner was ready to pull the plug until Flashpoint came about. Flashpoint was going to be one and done until this situation happened that forced Dan DiDio to make it a full on event that would reboot it into the New 52.
Then five years later, DC Rebirth came about and Dan DiDio publicly said that The New 52 was an old shame since it really did turn off a lot of people and in turn hurt the company. DC Rebirth pretty much saved the company from themselves. Now DC is doing a LOT better with their DC Rebirth while Marvel is struggling in terms of comic sales due to some questionable decisions.
Also the fact that there's going to be a storyline involving Watchmen is already making Alan Moore pissed. No wonder he wants nothing to do with DC. I can't blame him. I truly can't.
Great job doing this review of Flashpoint Lewis. Personally for me, I prefer the Justice League animated movie The Flashpoint Paradox. It's darker yes but for a film focusing on the Flash, it's very well done. Also, Reverse Flash gets shot in the head instead of stabbed by Thomas Wayne Batman.
Whoa, WHOA! Time Warner was gonna SHUT DOWN DC??? WTF?! Just because they were losing to Marvel? What, being #2 wasn't good enough for them?
I think it's more that DC wasn't bring in enough money for Time Warner than losing to Marvel. Marvel isn't doing so good either but they are more ahead for the curve then DC.
The worst part is, it's not even the first time Time Warner would have done this. They sold WCW to WWE for the sole reason of being the #2 wrestling organization. I don't believe for one second it was about loss of money, because it was going on for so long. They just didn't wanna be #2.
...Wait a minute...NO.
1 - WCW was owned by Time Warner
2 - Time Warner owns DC Comics
3 - DC Comics published Countdown to Final Crisis.
...........Holy crap, you really CAN link Countdown to everything bad in the past 10+ years. 😳
Nope. Sorry but you are totally wrong. Before Flashpoint, Blackest Night and Brightest Day wiped the floor with Marvel. DC's sales actually decrased more after New 52's fourth month because of how badly they handeled reboot. It's totally fault of Dan Didio and other higher ups like Bob Harras.
"Dammit Barry" should not be used to just criticize his actions. It is specifically meant to refer to when Barry screws the timeline. Thus, it should refer to the entire event, but not that specific action. Get it right next time
(Joking, in case anyone's wondering)
Seems to me that a lot of the issues you pointed out with the comic line was fixed in the animated movie. Wish that you'd mentioned about Martha Wayne becoming the joker because I'm a fan of that aspect in the comics. A Batman can't exist without a Joker of some kind. What's especially touching is when Thomas catches up to Martha and explains to her that he can help bring back their son, but it means that both of them will be dead and she agrees anyway. That's just touching to me.
We Review Everything! And then she commits suicide because she discovers Bruce would become Batman.
You know, it's funny. I was just reading a classic comic of my youth (Flash #268) and had kind of revelation about Barry Allen. It was something I thought I'd share here, both to articulate it for myself and also because I think this video touches on a lot of issues with the character.
I have always been a huge Barry Allen fan. He was one of the first characters I ever read about back in the 60's. I cried when his series ended with him returning to Iris in the future, and was deeply saddened when he died in the Crisis. I have no ill will towards Wally West or his stories, but Barry will always be the Flash to me. His return was one of the few things I enjoyed about Countdown era DC Comics. In short, there's no denying his significance to myself, nor to comic book history. But also, for as long as I can get remember, people have complained that Barry is boring. I can see why people might think that, but I've never felt that way.
A lot of the complaints about Barry really took hold when he married Iris, and continued that way for years after. Readers felt his personal life with Iris was just... boring (to which, I think the same thing you once said about Peter Parker and Mary Jane - if it seems boring, than make it interesting, or keep in the background). What also didn't help was that for over a decade he was mainly written by one author, Cary Bates, who was most popular for meeting deadlines. I don't hate Bates at all, but his stories were very inconsistent in quality, going from great to abyssmal, and everywhere in-between. That style of writing did not really lend itself to personality development, nor relationship drama. It was very quick (which I suppose is thematically on point), just jumping from plot point to plot point, set-up to set-up.
So, I think that was part of the reason why his popularity fell (for the record, like I said, I do not hate Cary Bates, nor am I putting in the blame on him personally). I also think it's why, following his revival, they tried giving him a tragic backstory, what with the death of his mother inspiring him and so on. Now, I don't think it's a bad backstory, but I can think of two interconnected reasons why I don't like it. 1. It led to Flashpoint. 2. Flashpoint has defined Barry for years now. Every single significant story with Barry now either revolves around his mistake, his mother, or Professor Zoom (letting me age show with that name usage) messing with him. And frankly, for me, it's exhausting. Barry's history has many great stories and iconic moments, but unfortunately it's all anybody ever thinks of about him anymote. It's like those many, many years where the Dark Knight Returns and Year One were (hyperbolically) talked about as the greatest and most definitive Batman stories. To me, they're not, and that attitude can stagger creativity, or a character's reputation. Barry's not just the dead mom guy who screws up time traveling (Damn it, Barry!). He so much more. He's a chemist, a detective, a sloppy scheduler, a married man, an inspiration, a prankster, a nerd, and a comic book fan.
That brings me back to that issue I mentioned in the beginning, and the realization that Barry always did have a personality. In that issue, some criminals steal a comic of Flash Comics from Barry's private collection (it's a long story). The relevant part of that story is that the extent of Barry's Golden Age collection is huge. He has Jay Garrick, Alan Scott, Johnny Thunder and many others. He talks about how much he loves his comics, those characters, and how he now knows them personally.
This revelation wasn't anything new. Way back in Showcase #4, Barry was reading a copy of All-Flash when the lightning struck. He chose his name because of his childhood hero. In the Flash of Two Worlds, he got to meet that hero and told the Earth-One Gardner Fox, the writer of those comics, that he was real. That has always been part of Barry's personality: he loves comics, he loves superheroes, and he loves being a superhero.
I really think that's an aspect of Barry that's overlooked. In an age where people seem to love corrupted heroes, or darker stories, perhaps becayse od their own worldweariness or cynicism, I would love to see writers lean more on Barry as the antithesis of those things. He's a kid who grew up loving superheroes, not for violence, intrigue or revealing clothes, but because he loves helping people. He loves the colorfulness of it all, the ability to help others, the fact that he's living up to a childhood legacy. In that way, he really embodies the Silver Age like no other: an era borne from love of the characters and genre, and wanting to see them back after a "dark age." I know a lot of people already see Wally West that way, and it's fine, but I think I the idea of a superhero who grew up on classic superhero ideals, and tries to live up to them in every aspect of his life is very good. You could use it for sheer charm and innocent nostalgia, get meta with it, use it symbollically, or use it to add weight to irregular episodes of legitimate pathos.
In short, Barry Allen's personality was always there, it just wasn't always highlighted. And if it ever was, it would be one of the most relatable of all. To quote Linkara: "I freaking love superheroes."
Edit: I apologize for my "ok boomer-esque" rambling, but I hope I've made my point clear. I always love how your channel stimulates my love for my favorite things, and takes it in new directions. Thank you.
Being a "Boomer" isnt truly based on an age range; it's a state of mind. As you can reasonably articulate your opinion on yesteryear (and then some), make reasonable arguments as to how your opinion fits in with the present paradigm, and don't belittle the opinions of those who don't notice or care, nobody who matters is ever going to say "ok boomer" to you.
I liked the movie very much!
Flash and Dr. Zoom running all over the city fighting was pretty cool, but Flash running so fast inside the timestream that he is able to tackle himself?
Legendary.
Lets see...
Timeline 1:
Barry's mom is alive, he is a CSI, becomes the Flash and marries Iris West.
Timeline 2:
Zoom kills Barry's mom and frames his dad. This has such a great impact ib his life that he grows up to become a CSI, becomes the Flash and marries Iris West.
Timeline 3:
Barry prevents his moms dead so he grows up to become a CSI, but he isn't the Flash, he doesn't marry Iris West, the world has gone to hell, Superman landed in Metrópolis, Bruce Wayne died and events were changed retroactively.
Also, characters apear whitout explanation unless you read the complementary miniseries and Pandora just apears because...?
THIS COMIC SUCKS!!!
Also the explanation from the movies doesn't make any sense. I mean look at Aquaman's face in the beginning of The Flashpoint Paradox, before the Flashpoint. Then look at his face post-Flashpoint in Throne of Atlantis.
Time booms make for amazing facial reconstructive surgeons it seems. That's why I like the idea that Doctor Manhatten or some other outside influence also had a hand in these changes because why would a slight alteration to the timeline turn the completely unrelated Amazons from idealistic emissaries of peace into a barbaric society of rapists and murderers?
Cody Hines I personally believe that’s because of HOW Barry altered the past. Because Barry pulled the Speedforce into his body in order to stop Thawne (and I’m guessing the Speedforce permeates throughout the universe somewhat), it caused history to kind of crack. If he had simply just stopped Thawne without pulling in the Speedforce, the world he returned to may have been similar to the one he left, just with his mom still alive. But because the Speedforce cracked history, it altered other events that had nothing to do with what Barry did, such as having Kal El land in Metropolis, or Bruce getting killed instead of his parents. As such, it wasn’t Barry saving his mother that resulted in this timeline, it was how he saved her.
But that’s just what I think.
@@JaelinBezel Honestly the best way to understand time travel, atleast for dc is to assume "Back to the future" Rules! which is pretty much anything goes!
The Flashpoint event also involved Booster Gold. His tie in issues (technically the last issues of his solo series) were...weird. He interacted with alternate versions of his friends and Barry for a bit, then returns to Vanishing Point, losing some memory. It wasn’t really explained what happened, but the Futures End and Convergence tie ins made some rationale of them, having two Boosters and making the Pre Flashpoint one into Waverider.
Time Travel is Weird
26:35 Thawne: "Uh-uh-uh! As long as I can siphon off the Speed Force, you can't escape this timeline. I'm afraid there just isn't enough Speed Force to go aroun-"
*bang*
(Batman shoots Reverse Flash through the head)
Thomas: "There is now."
Somebody's been watching the Justice League: Flashpoint Paradox movie, lately.
@@xgray2012 I couldn't resist.
Neo-Xgray87 lol indeed
@@sebastianemond5313 that line is awesome though
That flash TV series theme music is going to be copyright claimed to death.
The animated movie based on this, Justice League The Flashpoint Paradox is probably my favorite of the animated Justice League movies. It has a lot of emotional poignancy.
TheSefirosu200x indeed
Is it just a coincidence that the CinemaSins video on Flashpoint Paradox just came out?
Der Mathze Yes. Because Event Comics Month was voted on and announced in advance
Cinema Sins video was annoying and nitpicky
Well yeah, that's their job.
Yes, Cinemasins did it because Wonder Woman is coming out and the guy googled a random DC movie (surprised he didn't do Catwoman though), Linkara let patrons vote on what he'd do months ago
I'm pretty sure they already did "Catwoman."
Well at least we saw Thomas Wayne Batman again in "The Button" story.
He was already Earth 2 Batman.
LupineShadowOmega different bruce wayne batman. He was already dead by the time the button atory happened
Dalton Williams, nope it was a different Thomas Wayne. On Earth 2 Bruce died as Batman, but that wasn't the point of this comment. The OP said we get to see him again, my point was that we've been able to see him all along because the Earth 2 one existed. E2 Thomas isn't very different from Flashpoint Thomas.
I can feel the anger even before watching the video. As in I knew he was reviewing this when he said what he was reviewing last time. Poor DC. The New 52 could've been great.
Is it just me, or is this the only Flash story that seriously rates these days? Like, seriously, it got an animated movie(which, to my knowledge, is the only one centering on the Flash, even if it is TECHNICALLY a Justice League movie), the Flash TV show poorly adapted it, and last I heard, the DCEU Flash movie is gonna be called Flashpoint. It's as overexposed as Batman!
The movie version is better.
The Old King
I’m inclined to agree,
I agree with that
It is yes
It really makes no sense that Barry saving his own mother would have that many consequences, especially to so many of the other superheros. How does that change where Superman spaceship crashed?! There's "the butterfly effect" and then there's "we want to change things and these characters are the most famous so it'll be them effect". I think it would have made more sense for Eobard Thawne to have been lying and he did these changes, he just wanted to crush Barry's spirit.
CinemaSins and Linkara both covering Flashpoint? COINCIDENCE?
Probably
Especially since Linkara is actually funny. And good.
Dreigonix
To be fair, cinemawins is pretty good in my eyes.
Apparently the only change Dr. Manhattan made was preventing the creation of the Golden Age Green Lantern. Wrap your head around how that caused The New 52 timeline
I was REALLY pissed when I read that. I was just left scratching my head over what the heck Flashpoint had to do with ANY of this.
"Dear Bruce, Barry barry barry flash, anyway I'm not the hero of this story"
Geez Thomas...
Here's an idea: MAKE FLASHPOINT A WEEKLY SERIES. Seriously, with this story rebooting the DC Universe, you could explore the Flashpoint timeline more! Plus, you can say something like, Barry didn't just save his mom, but he undid other deaths and events that created the events of the Flashpoint timeline! Seriously, think about how much better this would be!
I loathe the New 52. Some good things came out of it (Massive increase of Cyborg exposure, Barbara getting a bunch of cool new enemies, The Court of Owls concept (though I'm not that fond of them being Bat-Rogues), and Vibe's reinvented character), but most of it was either disappointing or infuriating.
Despite that, I still look at the New 52 and see a lot of potential. Every single underdeveloped/underused rogue that was thrown in, all the cool concepts that ended up being ignored or handled terribly, all the crappy event comics, I look at them all and see untapped potential for greatness, and I hope that Rebirth tackles some of these at some point in the future.
Cyborg pushing is annyoing, Barbara ahve regress to cool oporative to cringy teenager.
The only good thing aboot new52 was Brian Azarello Wonder Woman and all was trow away by Rucka fanboysm with rebirth.
Danny Buckle All the good stuff that came out of the NU 52 could have been done without a full reboot. All they needed was a few retcons and a stronger editorial hand.
I really didn't like the new 52 Wonder Woman, particularly the changes to her mythos.
@@GeneralKenobi75 Not just her mythos but her disposition and origin too. Not only did they make the Amazons a pack of murderous rapists who made Diana's life hell growing up, they made Diana herself more battle hungry (though I do think watching her stalk around DC sword in hand is kinda funny) and shallow which really goes against the point of her as a DC Character (being someone who tries to spread peace and understanding) and made her the daughter of Zeus. I like the Clay origin way more because it's more original and asks the question of whether or not she's really human but now that conversation begins and ends with "She's a demigod". Wonder Woman may be my favorite superhero but I'm disinclined to read anything from this era because she and the amazons seemed to have caught all the bad things about the New 52 and very few of the good things
@@JaelinBezel Exactly. The clay origin also fits in with Wonder Woman a lot more. She's born of no man, that's part of what makes her unique. Rather than her just being yet another child of Zeus and run of the mill demigod, because we don't have enough of those. I really don't get why DC did that. Yeah, it fits more of the Greek Myth Amazons. But when you think about it, we only have the Greek's account of the Amazons to go by. Couldn't they have deliberately painted the Amazons as awful in their tellings? Especially considering how patriarchal the Greeks were. I really am not a fan of the New 52 Wonder Woman either. Its just another dumb attempt to make DC "edgier".
It's kind of funny that animated movie version of Flashpoint ended up actually being better than the comic, at least in my opinion. All the tie-in segments are tweaked so that they are self-contained, most of the ridiculous moments and pointless characters are either rewritten or excluded entirely, and we actually get more of an explanation on the Flashpoint world's backstory, especially that of Wonder Woman and Aquaman's war.
Flashpoint may have been a meh series in print, but the animated movie they eventually made of it was actually, I think, really good. Tightened it up a lot, got rid of some of the extraneous stuff, made it a little more epic, and made the event itself the focus, whereas the comic event really just kept looking toward the eventual result rather than telling the story for its own sake.
Didn't do anything?? Didn't do anything???? She brought extra juice boxes! Weren't you paying attention? She's adorable. 10/10 best scene covered in the review.
The moment I finish this video, my feed updated and Cinemasins: Justice League: The Flashpoint paradox appeared
I actually prefer the movie, even though it elliminates that bit of thawne's history, and the cosmic treadmill, it makes more sense
I wish Linkara talked a bit about the Flashpoint Batman tie-ins, especially the last book. It was beautiful and they handled the Jokerized Martha thing so well... there was so much pathos in the scene where Thomas finally catches up with her and tells her about Bruce surviving in the other timeline and asks her for permission to change their own timeline (and then it's not Batman speaking to the Joker, but a husband and bereaved father speaking to his estranged wife and a bereaved mother), and when she asks Thomas to tell her about the Bruce in Barry's timeline, he tells her he has chosen his profession, and she proudly asks, "so he's a doctor?" and Thomas simply says "no", which terrifies Martha and she runs to her death... that was very well written - after losing her child, Martha became a psychotic killer who tried to kill other people's children, but that one panel where she proudly thinks her Bruce is alive and well and a doctor somewhere, while still in her grotesque Joker make-up and self-mutilated Glasgow smile, she is for a moment, back to being just a mother, with dreams and love for her child... it was brilliant and heartbreaking
Are we not going to talk about the fact that the second attempt to give Barry his powers only worked because of Bart Allen sacrificing himself to become a bolt of lightning
Reverse Flash did had an interesting point in the movie about what Barry did.
The Flash: I just wanted to save her.
Professor Zoom: Her hero; how noble. Oh, wait! You didn't stop JFK from getting assassinated, or make sure Hitler stayed in art school. You saved your mommy. You missed her.
I thought that was creepy but Thawn topped that speech with the one he gave in _The Button_ xover where he told Barry he was going to go back in time AGAIN and this time raise Barry as his ward and make him evil.
Prof. Zoom: And in a supreme act of selfishness shattered history like a rank amateur, turned the world into a living hell moments away from destruction and I'm the villain?
Yeah but the last time someone tried to get rid of Hitler, it just ended with Stalin causing world war 2, and years later have ww3 with psychic mind control and Soviet bomber blimps.
Red Alert is clearly the superior timeline. It has Kane.
Barry Allen: this is My god you my god Batman your Martha Wayne. Thomas Wayne: why did you say that name
31:10 this was a very sweet moment that is now forever tainted by Tom Kings hate boner for Batman
If you read City of Bane you know what I’m talking about if you haven’t avoid it like it’s covered in fear toxin
In the flashpoint timeline, one face created rock and roll.
Random out of nowhere unexplained cybernetic ape army would in fact make me more inclined to keep reading.
If you have a misplaced grudge against Barry because of Wally's erasure during the New 52 (no shame, I did too), I highly recommend you check out Joshua Williamson's Flash run from Rebirth. It's not only the final word on Barry Allen in my eyes, but a great stealth Flash Family book that honors the entire legacy.
Nice content! Keep it up!
I got a lot of the way through this video thinking this story was familiar, and then I remembered that I watched the Flashpoint movie that Warner put out a bit ago. That thing is super faithful.
When I heard you were talking about Babylon 5, I squealed so loudly that it scared my parents... who were fifty feet away, upstairs, with several rooms between us.
... Babylon 5 is awesome.
As a big Flash reader, I actually think this was a crap Flash story. The story is centered entirely on Barry, with not even lip service to the Flash family, and the Speed Force is further butchered by Geoff Johns to be able to do whatever he wants it to. The actual characterisation for Barry is barely existent, because he barely has a personality, but Johns doesn't really bother to give him a personality beyond "regret and misses mommy". There are some nice ideas and moments, like Barry trying to recreate his accident, but as a Flash reader, if anything makes me dislike it *more* than the average DC reader, because it was entirely Barry focused. The only Flash character who got anything was Bart Allen (he's the lightning bolt that struck Barry the second time in this crossover), with everyone else absent. If it were a grand event comic that featured the Flash family's interpersonal conflicts regarding Barry's actions, I would've probably liked it more, especially since those characters should've gotten a last hurrah.
5:17 Man, I am sorry, but the cover reminded me...........Cyborg does not feel right on the JLA to me.
1) Titans. Enough said.
2) I know that in late era super friends Cartoons, him and Firestorm had more prominence. Like one more day the writers of the comics (or producers, more like it) want to go by THEIR nostalgia and have these odd impulses to jump back to places and eras that do not feel right with a new or recent audience ua-cam.com/video/vvZANEAVgkQ/v-deo.htmlm35s
3) If they needed a tech hero, I would go with a super scientist using the iconography of a legendary american folk hero that is interesting. John Henry Irons. The man called Steel.............probably without a red cape to avoid being stuck as a Superman Fanboy to a new audience.
4)OR just take advantage of the JLU and replace Hal Jordan with Jon Stewart. I am much more interested in the exmarine with ex girlfriends accross the galaxy that can talk down to superman like a drill sergeant than...............you know what? It is my fault for not reading a good Hal Jordan story. Closest I got was JLA New Frontier and that was mostly because I love space race era square jaw guys for a sincere camp factor.
butchdeadlift10 same
And if it was just about having a token black guy, there's always Black Lightning. He could always use some more exposure and no one will care that he's not with the outsiders or whoever he normally rolls with. Hell Vixen's powers are incredibly versatile and that way Wonder Woman wouldn't be the only woman on the team.
In the comics, Batman stabs a man with a comically oversized sword
In the movie, he straight up shoots Zoom with a gun
Thus, we can see that either way, Zoom is slower than a sword or a bullet
That whole going back in time to save Barry's mother joke somehow made me think of Teamfourstar's Digimon movie April Fool's joke.
"How's your Grandma!?"
"She misses you!"
"Yeah! Cause she's awesome!"
Did anyone else return to this review because of the upcoming movie?
Yes
Damn it Barry!
Thank you for using the AWESOME CW flash show theme🥳
Event Comics Month was epic and this episode was absolutly worth the wait. Keep up the great work 👍
Wait so THIS is where we first get the Shazam kids that would be prominent in the recent movie?
love your videos linkara
I have something to say! The "Bio-Weapon"/seismic device are the same thing because Aquaman weaponized Tara Markov's brother. In this timeline, he became a senator who was attempting to create an alliance with Aquaman so to better combat Wonder Woman's forces. However, Aquaman was aware of his Earth powers, as the good senator once was a superhero, and so Aquaman drugged him and had his scientists create a machine that kept him immobile while allowing the Atlanteans complete access to his powers.
"One Face!" God damn it, that made me crack up!
It's clear that the people who wrote this story have no idea how time travel works.
There was a DC Animated adaptation of Flashpoint that fit the backstory stuff from the various miniseries in reasonably well. I get the impression that method might be the better way to experience this story than reading the comic.
This has been a great review month Linkara. Thanks for doing these. :)
@12:39-12:55
Barry Allen: *(to Batman!)* "My god!!! You're not Bruce Wayne. Why youre...you're...you're Martha Wayne!!"
Batman: *"WHY DID YOU SAY THAT NAME?!?!"* 😂🤣
I've heard iffy things about this comic, but the animated adaptation _Justice League: The Flashpoint Paradox_ rocks!
Yeah sucks what happened to Element Woman. She had awesome characteristics and personality. She could at least had tie ins. I REALLY wish they'd bring her back in DC Rebirth. Shes pretty cool.
Implying that the timeline was better when Barry wasn't around and he should go back to being dead?
...
Do I need to point out the unfortunate implications of that joke?
23:03 Well, your new name is The Captain, and that's one step closer