Green Lantern: Emerald Twilight - Atop the Fourth Wall
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- Опубліковано 3 жов 2024
- Welcome to Atop the Fourth Wall, where bad comics burn. In this Patreon-sponsored episode, Linkara looks at the infamous story where Hal Jordan turns evil!
Check out more AT4W shirts at Shark Robot: sharkrobot.com...
Title Card Art by Viga: / vigasartroom
atopthefourthwa...
/ at4w
Originally released August 1st, 2023
ORIGINAL DESCRIPTION: Some men will go on a cosmic murder spree to try to create a fake, reaffirming copy of his destroyed hometown and parents instead of going to therapy.
#at4w #GreenLantern #dc
"We should do something!"
"Should we do something?"
"We should do something!"
"Should we do something?"
That's the Guardians in this story in a nutshell.
When did Linkara say this?
@@ProjectSudoku It's a gag from the 4-part retrospective of Countdown to Final Crisis that he did way back in 2009.
@@dvass7253 I remember him doing it again in a more modern video.
@@ProjectSudoku That would be his review for Final Crisis.
@@dvass7253 Thank you!
Sooo basically the Guardians' reaction when Hal is absorbing energy from the battery can be summed up as:
"WE SHOULD DO SOMETHING!"
"Should we do something?"
That's kinda their MO.
I was thinking the exact same thing, I'm a little surprised Linkara didn't bring back that old chestnut.
@@Rynjinivar might not of thought of it
@@Wanderingsage7
You know, for being guardians of the universe they kinda suck at it…
I was waiting for him to do this!
Hal:”Where is the core?”
Parallax: “It seems, in your anger, you killed them.”
Hal: “NOOOOOOOoooooOooo!”
Hal: Now I know what I want.
Parallax: What do you want?
Hal: I WANT JUSTICE (Sorry. Couldn't resist)
@@Rabbitlord108 Yes, we all want Justice after seeing the Green Lantern movie. But will it ever come?
@@mesektet5776 We can only hope.
This could be done in an adaptation. Parallax slowly corrupting Hal Jordan. Hal ultimately breaks free and sacrifices himself to destroy Parallax.
Parallax: "Then together, we can BE justice!"
Hal: "Coast City will never be: a memory."
Sepheroth: "This guy gets it."
Hal: "Hey Clark, sweet sword and wig."
@@dnmstarsi Hal: Though I Miss the S and why is the wig white are you trying to be Apollo
@@dnmstarsiThis is because Superman is Sephiroth.
@@tysondennis1016 I mean. Just watch Superman Vs The Elite. George Newbern voices Superman and even gets to break out his Sephiroth voice as the guy Pummels the titular "Heroes".
Kyle: Oh man... I think my life just got a LOT more complicated.
Well, that's one word for it...
Also, fun fact: Kyle wasn't the first one Ganthet visited after Hal destroyed the corps. He actually went first to Guy Gardner, who literally told him to go away the moment he saw the little blue guy, because he was THIS done with the Guardians.
This factoid was revealed in a special GL issue in which Guy talks to a mail-person/the reader and recaps the entire legacy of GL. And yes, this book was canon, because the painting made by Kyle Rayner which was brought in by the mail person actually appears in Guys bar afterwards.
When was this?
@@daelen.cclark Green Lantern: Seceret Files and origins
Now im questioning if john was similarly done with them
@@ilopominecrafter John at that point was a major member of the darkstars, which were essentially bargain bin Green Lantern replacements, so he was already out of the question.
The Guardians not doing anything, even when they're standing RIGHT THERE, is pretty in-character for them. It was established even back then that the Guardians were so complacent and used to creating groups to do the actual work for them, they were incapable of doing anything themselves.
That said it's still really funny to see them just standing there going "wait, should we stop him ourselves?" "I don't understand that question." while Hal's draining the central battery two feet away from them.
The dumbasses told him off for coping, yet they didn't do anything with Sinestro.
“Should we do something? We should do something!”
@@MichaelSmith-fq6hz
“Should we do something?”
“We should do something!”
“Should we do something?”
“We should do something!”
@@MichaelSmith-fq6hz They don't even get that far! It's "Should we do something?" "No." "Okay then."
Yeah they've really always sucked and as far as I know still suck.
On the plus side, all the Lanterns Hal "killed" during his rampage were later revealed to be still alive. They were collected by the Manhunter robots and were used as living batteries for bigger versions of said robots. They would be rescued and reinstated into the corp by a post-redemption Hal.
This story gets even scarier if you go back and read it again after the whole Parallax reveal, because then you notice how weird some things are, like the Narrator. Some of the things he says to Hal are strange, and a lot of the text boxes are YELLOW. So it’s almost like Parallax himself is talking to Hal to push him over the edge and drive him insane by speaking to him, both in his mind and through Hal’s constructs. You can practically feel Parallax pushing Hal over the edge with just a few well-chosen words, and it is absolutely chilling.
Edit: Also, can we talk about how Hal supposedly managed to either kill, defeat or steal the rings of every Green Lantern apart from himself at the time, and how nonsensical that is? Sure, he’d be powerful enough to defeat and steal the ring of any regular Green Lantern, but what about the more esoteric and bizarre Green Lanterns? How did Hal beat them? For example, there’s Dkrtzy Rrr, who is a living mathematical formula representing willpower itself, which would make him close, if not akin to, a living concept. How the hell did Hal manage to defeat a sentient, abstract mathematical equation to begin with? You can’t punch or kill math. Another example of that would be Mogo. Stealing his ring and leaving him to drift in space wouldn’t be enough to kill him, since drifting in space is literally what Mogo does all the time. Did Hal somehow destroy the entire living planet?
Coming from someone who has only heard of the whole Parallax thing, I was honestly thinking that to. I know that twist wasn't even in the staff's minds back then, but it is really weird when you take into account of what happens later.
@@fictionfan3699
Yeah, I wouldn’t be surprised if Geoff Johns took Emerald Twilight into account when he came up with the Parallax reveal, and deliberately made the big retcon that way so that it could mesh well with past stories in hindsight. Sure, it wasn’t the intention when the story came out, but it’s still really cool when you think of it like that.
I mean, by that logic, how can you give a ring to an abstract, formless concept?
but then again, we don't have to think too hard on this part since Hal only defeated those *sent* on his way, he didn't have... billions? of rings on his person, jus those of the people he beat.
@@zephyrfields9977
Well, you got me there. I have no idea how that’s possible either. Still, didn’t the Guardians send everyone after Hal? If they hadn’t, I don’t think they would’ve been desperate enough to summon Sinestro.
@eon1014 i assume they sent as many available lanterns as possible but a majority of them would've still been in space, on their homeworlds,etc. Probably a lot on their way to oa to help who then died in space when the battery was destroyed
I guess too much green energy is dangerous.
Doenst hit the same as pink energy
Maybe it’s radioactive! THAT CANT BE GOOD!
At the very least, the Paralax retcon gave ways to massively expanding the GL mythos and creating many mainstays, like the Red Lantern. In hindsight, this was a boon like no other.
In my opinion Emerald Twilight was completely worth it in the long run simply because it brought about the Geoff Johns run on Green Lantern, and that entire run wound up being nothing but winners.
Good writers can take a stupid event and turn it into an advantage.
the event itself turned out to be shit but shit cna be good fetilizer for something greater in a pinch given time.
@@sarafontanini7051 words to live by, King.
@@sarafontanini7051Like the original 90s Heroes Reborn. It led to the Busiek/Perez Avengers, the greatest run the team ever had in my opinion.
Despite this story’s many flaws, we got some really good Green Lantern stories out of it, including Kyle Rayner and the Geoff Johns run. I can forgive it.
Kyle, to this day, is one of my favorite lanterns, only barely beaten out by Jessica Cruz.
@@Savagewolver Kyle is my second favourite after Hal. Read his first few issues recently, loved them. He’s a great character.
I also loved Hal's run as the Spectre after this.
@@katsand92 not actually read that run but i want to. Hopefully they’ll collect it when the new GL show comes out.
Geoff Johns actually managed to make this story work in retrospect.
So two things:
1. The original idea for this sounds like Hal Kordan would become ION (Kyle Rayner's temporary ultra powerful version).
2. Hal was leading Justice League International at this time and after he left they never even addressed his absence outside of just assuming Dr.Light (Kimiyo Hoshi) should take over as leader because of her intelligence. This might have been interesting if her normal standoffish personality was used but for balance purposes due to notorious hot head Power Girl being on the team she was changed.
Kinda amazing how the guardians of the universe actively make every situation worse, i think if they just a bit more compassionate here maybe hal wouldn't have gone murder happy
Even compassion might have been overkill. If they hadn't smacked him down by telling him he was under arrest and expected on Oa to face charges, he might not have gone murder happy. They actually forced his hand - no wonder he got desperate.
I think the Guardians being massive dicks is a common theme in GL books.
Honestly, when the Guardians turned evil in the New 52, it was less of a shock and more of a "What took you so long?" lol
Didn't Darkest Night also showed that they knew where the Life Entity was on Earth and could have done something about this? I know it happened after Rebirth, but still. Just oof when it comes to continuity.
The Guardians in the 50s & 60s: "We are wise!" ::do some weird stuff, but it might be wise.::
The Guardians in the 70s: "We are wise!" ::one of them goes on a drunken bender with Green Arrow and Green Lantern on Earth for a while. Says he's improved.::
The Guardians in the 80s: "We are wise!" ::do nothing as GUY GARDNER takes a yellow power ring for himself.::
The Guardians in the 90s: "We are wise!" ::do less than nothing, get eradicated except one for it.::
It's wild how much more sense the parallax reveal makes. Like, it legit feels like Hal is possessed by some random murder-ghost here.
The writer part of me immediately sees how exactly I would have done Hal's story in just three issues, without turning him into an evil person but still making a huge change for Kyle Rayner to come in and take over. Here's my pitch:
"Set in the aftermath of Coast City's destruction, Hal attempts to bring it back through the power of his ring and begins to relive his past life, while having conversations with people through hindsight. He speaks with his mother, his friends, and a former girlfriend named Jennifer from his college years but avoids his father. His mother and friends are the easiest to speak to. Hal recalls some of his best memories being with his mother during his childhood. Although she is proud of the man he has become, she wishes for him to settle down and raise a family. As for his friends, he recalls the good memories and comes to believe that the superheroes he has fought alongside with, like Oliver Queen, became his surrogate family, which his mother points out is only a substitute for what he might be truly desiring.
After making peace with his mother and friends, he is met by Jennifer, who brings back the regret he has in breaking up with her so suddenly after she helped him recover from his father's death, realizing that those feelings were never truly resolved. He imagines what their life would have been like, seeing an alternate reality where he is a father and husband, making him feel even more regret. However, she points out that if they hadn't broken up, he wouldn't have become Green Lantern. He responds that it did little for Coast City, but she tells him that dwelling on what-ifs never helps and that everyone must live with the consequences, no matter who made them. She forgives him and tells him to do the same for himself before vanishing, telling him her wish is to see him move on.
Finding the strength and will within, Hal finally confronts his father, who berates him for failing to save Coast City and Hal admits that it is his failure, that he can't bring back the dead or live in a fantasy world where everything is alright. He turns the tables on his father and calls him out on ignoring him as a child, nor being there for him when he needed a father. Although his father refuses to acknowledge this, Hal forgives him and makes peace, just as the power in his ring runs out.
Afterwards, Hal is contacted by the Guardians, who order him to return to Oa and face disciplinary action. He accepts and is brought before the council, who acknowledge that Hal is going through mental stress and PTSD, so they won't imprison him. Instead, they decide to suspend him from Lantern duties for a little while, take his ring, and return him to Earth. Once there, he pays a visit to Jennifer but from afar, seeing that she has moved on, married, and has kids. He smiles at the family and decides to go back into the military. A little while later, he meets a woman and begins to date. When his suspension is up, Hal refuses the ring when it comes to him, having found peace.
In Los Angeles, Kyle Rayner finishes a date with his girlfiend, Alexandra DeWitt, and returns home to find the ring waiting for him, telling him that he has been chosen to become the new Green Lantern of Sector 2814."
That sounds great but probably wouldn’t appease DC higher ups
The funny thing is that when you really look back, this is basically the prototype story-wise for what would inevitably end up being Injustice. Hero ending up losing their main city and everything they loved, and soon ending up devolving into a nightmarish supervillain in all but name by the end of it.
And funnier still, both involving Superman in a way.
Hal even becomes a Yellow Lantern in Injustice.
late But while Hal got to redeem himself with his time as the spectre kinda-sorta and fully the Geoff Johns Run while injustice Superman probably wont
I actually didn't grow up with Hal Jordan as Green Lantern. I read a few comics where he was Green Lantern, most notably Justice League Year One, as a kid. But Kyle Rayner and John Stewart were the Green Lanterns of my generation. Kyle being the Green Lantern of Grant Morrison and Mark Waid's JLA and John Stewart being the Green Lantern of the Justice League and Justice League Unlimited. But even I have to admit Hal was done dirty by these events. He may not be my favorite Green Lantern, but it is still baffling how they turned him into a villain.
Well like lewis said it was the 90s and everyone was being replaced. Supes had just come back from his coma. Bruce was out for either dick or azazel here i think. Wonderwoman would soon be replaced. They just wanted a fresh reason i guess
@@donb7519 Wonder Woman was also replaced for a time as I recall. Artemis took her place, and Diana ran around in a skimpy black outfit. Kyle Rayner and Wally West ended up being actually good replacements.
@@GeneralKenobi75 yep thats why i mentioned wondy she wasnt replaced yet because i remember her dying in her book part way through morrisons rock of ages story
@@donb7519John Paul Valley/Azrael.
This wasn’t the original idea. The original concept was that there would be a war between two sets of the Guardians of the Universe, and Hal would be stuck in the middle. But DC editorial nixed it as it was felt that this story wouldn’t be “interesting” enough to get more people reading the book. Emerald Twilight as we know it was cooked up by Paul Levitz (DC Publisher at the time), Denny O’Neil, Mike Carlin, and Archie Goodwin. Kevin Dooley (editor of GL’s book at the time) plotted it, and Ron Marz wrote it.
I distinctly remember hearing about this comic long before I knew much of anything about comics. It was referenced in a short parody comic in a MAD Magazine-style publication about various rings of power (presented by Frodo). It touches on Hal Jordan going insane and stealing every Green Lantern ring, with a spoof of the second comic's cover, except instead of just having them on Hal's fingers, the parody shows him with some of the rings stuck to his nose and eyebrows like they were some punk's piercings.
what was the comic name?
@@or_gluzman561Peace_IL_PS It wasn't in English, but I have been tempted to try and see if I can find the panel again. Unfortunately, it's a little too deep into boxes of old stuff.
@@iamabrawler92 okay thank you
@@iamabrawler92 it's just sound sooo funny
You know Ganthet is really lucky Kyle happened to be a good person, because for all he knew Kyle could have serial killer or worse.
"In brightest day, in blackest night, No bad comic shall escape my sight. Beware my reviewing power, Green Linkara's light!"
Beware my snark, Greenkara’s light is the literal only improvement I can make
"Let those who worship Liefeld's Might, beware my cynicism, Greenkara's Light!"
@@JennyBlaze253 that’s even better then mine
@@gabrieldevoogel6225 😄
Ah, so the role of the Guardians of the Universe in this comic could be summed up as:
"We should do something!"
"Should we do something?"
Plus the lantern battery is “over there.”
I wonder if DC ever did an Elseworld story where Hal resisted Parallax long enough for the Guardians to figure out what was happening to him and stop it.
I don't think so, because that would require the Guardians to be compassionate and competent. I mean, I'd like it.
DC doesn’t do “What If”-type stories like that.
_Convergence: Green Lantern_ where Hal and Kyle Rayner get trapped beneath Telos' power sapping domes. It shut down Parallax so Hal went back to normal. Unfortunately this meant Hal thought he did everything and was borderline suicidal.
@@L1701really? That’s surprising
What? DC Elseworld titles effectively work as What Ifs
What gets me is that Kilowog would later do something similar, recreate his dead family and nobody batted an eye.
Maybe they learned from the Hal incident and decided to just leave the pig alone XD
Wow, dude. I still remember when I first saw the Top 15 Worst Heroes Becoming Villains video, back when Blip was a thing, and now, after so many references and appearances in other stories, we're finally circling back around to the story of how Hal Jordan went nuts. Normally I'd make an "I feel old" joke here, but honestly, it's really nice to think back to those early days and realize how long this review series has been a thing!
Rock on, man. Keep up the great work as always.
It's a shame that the other coloured Lantern Corps hadn't been created yet since I feel like their inclusion could've enhanced the story.
Think about it. Hal Jordan, possesed by Parallax returns to recreate Coast City using his powers. At first he's happy but then he realizes he's all alone, just playing with illusions in an empty crater. Reflecting on all the terrible things that happened in the DC universe, he comes to the twisted idea that by destroying and absorbing ALL of the different coloured central batteries, he could wield the powers of the White Lantern and take control of The Life Entity. He could control who lives and dies and become a god of this universe, giving a "happy" ending for everyone! He slaughters all the other Corps, collecting the powers of rage, fear, greed, hope, love and compassion. Once he has the entire emotional spectrum coursing through him, he tries to summon The Entity...and ends up summoning Nekron instead. Turns out that by wiping out every single Lantern Corp and killing thousands, if not millions of people makes him perfectly suited for the Black Lanterns. As Parallax flees from Hal to try and escape, Hal Jordan realizes how badly he messed up. As Nekron goes to wipe out all life in the universe, Hal realizes he still has the powers of the other Lanterns and manages to finally master the white spectrum. Using his newowers, he manages to vanquish and banish Nekron. Realizing his mistake, Hal decides to use the last of his newpowers to resurrect everyone he killed and reconstruct all of the rings and batteries before deciding to return to earth to help rebuild Coast City manually by hand as a form of penace...
I like the idea, and it would make a good Elseworld story. Has a few issues, like how is Hal rebuilding Coast City penance, but as a whole a perfectly good idea.
a someone else pointed out in the comics, the Parallax retcon actually makes this story work better. WHy does Hal suddenly jump into murder? because his grief and has allowed parallax to bend his mind, his will powerless to stop it because he isn't aware these darker impluses aren't even HIS, especially clouded by grief stricken madness. This also explains why he's suddenly so overcome with grief despite beign alright before: he was able to handle it before but he still had anguish and grief underneath it all. And Parallax took those small feelings and made them stronger, overwhelming Hal's other feelings.
THe same commenter even said the narrator text makes a lot more sense if it's PARALAX narrating, not sinestro. After all, most of this stuff isn't being SEEN by Sinestro. Why should he be allowed to comment on shit?
Sinestro: And then Hal Jordan snapped my neck.
Other person: How did you know about the parts you weren't there for?
@@vaggos2003 his soul watched out of body obviously
Phantom stranger or the presence or destiny could be the narrator
Any day with a new AT4W video is a good day.
0:40 They destroyed an entire city? That's a new level of fridging.
Ironic, since by giving Kyle the ring, we got the origins of that trope definition.
That's the kind of irony I can't help but love!
Cities in Refrigerators
@@michaeliv284Sounds like something Braniac would do after getting bored of putting them in bottles.
@@benwasserman8223 and they took it to a whole new level when his girlfriend Alex came back as a black lantern STILL in the fridge
i am legit suprised they haven't tried to bring her back as an heroic black lantern. the closest we have gotten to an heroic black lantern (that it isn't just a hero turned brainwashed zombie), is Roy Harper during infinite frontier AND EVEN THEN he became evil until they took that ring from him
So I started reading comics after Green Lantern Rebirth, and I am glad because Hal Jordan is my favorite Green Lantern.
This story just seems so silly. Like why can you just absorb the power battery by walking into it? Weren't they using it as a prison five minutes ago? Did Sinestro just never think of trying to absorb it? The Guardians doing nothing seems silly since I am used to seeing them attempting to fight (and usually failing?) in dire scenarios. Really just kind of glad for the Parallax reveal right before I started. It lead to some great stories and I loved seeing all four of the Earth Lanterns working together in later events.
to be fair the guardians weren't active figures for ages and ganthet becoming a green lantrn himself was a direct challenge to the complacency of the guardians and ganthet shouting "No, fuck that, I'm DONE" which made him stood from the rest of his kind.
It was retconned later that Ganthet went to Gardener before Kyle after Hal destroyed the power battery. However, that completely contradicts “Emerald Fallout” which takes place immediately after “Emerald Twilight”, Where Guy and a team of heroes try to confront Hal on Oa and get absolutely destroyed.
Really wish Sinestro had kept narrating during his fight with Hal. "Then he managed to grab my hea-*ackgblgthtlhlgrrr........*"
I wonder if the whole "Hal taking the rings of the other Green Lanterns without killing them" message might have been better conveyed if, instead of leaving them injured in space, Hal used the ones he had to send them wherever they considered home once he took what he wanted. Also, quick question. How many of the Green Lanterns sent to stop Hal actually knew the full context of why he started acting the way he did?
Knowing the little blue men, only the ones from Earth. If that.
@@Wanderingsage7 Between this and the "Blackest Night" review Linkara did in 2016, I believe it.
@@williamgreci8219 they're also the ones behind the New Guardians. Their little eugenics project involving a super villain.
@@Wanderingsage7 Ah. Right. Forgot about that.
They all knew, because they listened in technically via "space radio" till the power battery exploded.
Kyle meets another former lantern after the events of Zero Hour concluded who told him what happened. And no, she straight up explained that at least 60% of the Gl corps members died the moment the battery went out because some of them actually were flying or using their powers somehow, and guess what happens when they suddenly run out of juice.
this whole thing feels like an inspiration for the injustice superman.
by the way: patreons, we need to get linkara to review the injustice universe, home to probably an evil superman thatd give superboy prime a run for his money on dickery.
Guardians: Should we do something?
Ganthet: We SHOULD do something!
Guardians: Ok, YOU do something.
Man, I don't know why, but the beginning of the comic speaks to me. Truly, there is nothing more soul crushing than holes 🕳
I do wonder what it’s reputation would be if they’d given the storyline more time as planned. It would still be a beloved hero turned villain. Even Linkara’s suggestion still requires his heel turn. It does seem hard to imagine fans being okay with it.
as linkara points out the main problem isn't jsut hal turning evil, its how ABRUPT the turn is. He goes from being stricen with grief and delusions to suddenly straght up murdering his coworkers ad friends, often with a smirk or a grin. People would probably accept it better if his turn to evil wasbetter explained and justified and given more time to be fleshed out.
@@sarafontanini7051 It definitely wouldn’t have the same sting and there would be more fans onboard. But I imagine there would still be a good portion of the audience who would hate that he’s now a villain, regardless of execution.
And even more annoyingly probably a portion who would defend his villainy if they saw all of the gradual steps (ie: Breaking Bad)
I remember Wizard Magazine defending this story by listing all horrible things in Hal's life like losing Barry Allen or learning Carol Feris was Star Sapphire.
I agree, the story suffers the most from being rushed and the editorial demanding and bigger shake-up.
And FWIW, I love the Parallax outfit with the cape, and the name is pretty cool too.
I know they were planning on exploring him after this event but I think it’s odd that Kyle gets little to no screen time to establish his character just one scene in the second issue to make the end less random.
I think the final issue might've been marginally improved if during Hal and Sinestro's fight, Sinestro abruptly stabbed the Guardians in the back before flying off and laughing about how stupid the Guardians were for thinking that he'd actually defend his old enemies, leaving them at the mercy of Hal. "Thanks for freeing me, suckers! Have fun, Jordon."
I assume that they killed Sinestro because they wanted to do a full clean slate for the property, but that would've been hilarious.
“Sayonara Bitches!”- Dragon Ball Abridged Vegeta.
22:42 Of course not, they'll make a whole bunch of NEW mistakes!
My best friend is a huge Green Lantern fan, especially Jordan, so he has this story somewhere in his collection, and Green Lantern Rebirth, the Author's Saving Throw* for Hal's characterization. So what ARE Geoff Johns' faults? I met the guy at WonderCon 2011 and he seemed like an alright guy.
I think this story set a precedent for future comic stories: turn a good guy bad, then say he or she was possessed by a demon, mind-controlled, or switched with a doppleganger (looking at you, Shadlowland and Secret Empire).
*thanks, TVTropes!
I used to collect bad comics, and was very inspired by this show. I had all of this series, and stumbled across a bargain of a deal while collecting them: a complete collection of the first Kyle Rayner's green lantern. And it was one of the funnest runs of comics I'd read. So thank you, emerald twilight, for leading me to discover one of my favorite runs of comics.
The narration being yellow is pretty cool in hindsight it feel like the fear bug is talking to him
Ganthet being the only Guardian to suggest doing something, and everybody else collectively agreeing *he* should do something...
Mood..
11:43 Nothing can stop me having all the flavors of the Ring Pops! Nothing!
Seems like the Guardians could have sent more than two Lanterns at him at a time. I'm sure sending two Lanterns to defeat one made sense the first time they tried it; but I think at some point they should have just said "Ok, fuck it, send everybody at once!"
Maybe they’re aware of the Ninja Paradox and the more Green Lanterns are sent, the less collective power they’d have.
Shit, if they sent Mogo instead of Laira or Sinestro against Hal, there's no way they would have lost.
Now I know why you uploaded that compilation of the Crisis Trilogy with Zero Hour added as a bonus. Also. Still waiting for a story where Guy Gardner goes full on evil. And not simply an antihero.
Speaking of that Worst Heroes Becoming Villains countdown, ever thought about doing an updated list?
If you want to know why he hasn't done another list like that. I'd recommend (If you haven't already) watching his video talking about the Heroic Green Goblin.
I remember Comicstorian covering this Emerald Twilight. It was the first video I watched of his so I kind of have soft spot for this story. It felt like Star Wars with the betrayal of Anakin and the rise of Darth Vader, like a tragic space epic even if the choice to make Hal evil was controversial.
Star Wars Green Lantern combo would be great, instead of sabers it's power rings and stuff
@@l0sts0ul89 SUPER FRAME does a pitch for GL movies, that have a SW theme to them.
I have always called Emerald Twilight, Zero Hour, Final Night/Emerald Night and Rebirth (aka, the Parallax saga) one of the classic Super Hero character arcs. While its certainly a bit rough around the edges (not to mention the "he was possessed the whole time!" cop out) i really think it shows how a hero can fall into villainy before eventually redeeming himself and once more take up the mantle of a hero.
On the topic of resurrecting heroes, the latest Death Battle episode (shut up, the fights are fun and I enjoy when they have characters I haven't heard about) had Jean Grey vs Raven. When discussing Jean, they mention that she was brought back to life 15 times... only to have to insert a small correction, as she was resurrected for the 16th time while the episode was made. It was quite funny.
Edit: Correction, she just died for the 16th time. She'll probably come back next year, unless they have a 2-for-1 special order with Kamala.
Speaking of green lantern emerald twilight this storyline was actually kind of adapted for the recent green lantern animated movie be where my power and oh my god it was a bad twist to make Hal Jordan into a villian in that movie because it made no sense whatsoever for John Stewart story either and felt like it was rushed similar to this comic storyline at least in my opinion.
When I was a kid I grew up with Hal Jordan as Green Lantern. The only comic I had with him at the time was an issue of Justice League Of America where he gets knocked out half way through the story, but he was the only GL on Superfriends and syndicated reruns of the old Filmation produced DC stories. I was confused when I hear Hal was being replaced, but in another combo pack I ended up with an issue of Kyle's early run as Green Lantern where he and Superman teamed up to stop Mongul. Seeing Kyle's relationship with Alex and the story in general I was willing to give him a chance, and his creativity given his artistic nature and geeky side really made me like him.
Then I picked up Green Lantern #0, the Zero Hour Aftermath issue and learned the extent of Hal's evil and that Alex died and lost interest...following by being rather annoyed when I learned what happened to her, an event so idiotic it created a trope name. There were better ways to replace Hal with Kyle and I wish they had taken it. I didn't know John or Guy at the time so I could have easily accepted Kyle despite growing up with Hal. It doesn't help that I saw too many stories with more interest in Hal. While keeping his own story in the DCAU there was a reference to Hal in Kyle's debut, and his Justice League appearance made him look more like Hal than Kyle. It's not as bad as Wally being sidelined for Barry in the first live-action series or living Barry's life in the DCAU but it's around those lines. I don't think other writers gave Kyle a chance any more than they did Wally and that's really what hurt Kyle Rayner more than the way he was introduced.
About linkara's words on replacing Hal, it should be noted that Jon Stewart and guy were, in their first appearances, explicitly replacement green lanterns. Basically Hal was still the main one but Jon and guy, being the second and third most optimal candidates on earth, would take his place if he was out of commission.
So why weren’t they called when Hal went bad?
Though it is odd they just didn't go to guy or John at the end since this is kinda the thing they are there for.
Was there a reason Kyle was uniquely qualified to do this?
@@TimTE01 actually, Ganthet aproached Guy first. Not a joke, Guy even talks about this to Kyle after they met.
Guy declined ganthets offer because, at the time, he hated the Guardians THIS much that he didn't even care about finally becoming the actuall main GL of earth.
The shot of Hal and the rings gets referenced in the Green Lantern Animated Series (except he's using the Orange Lantern Rings which make senses)
Okay, now I want a comic where all the Lanterns unionize! Morrison's Lantern run could be fun to discuss in a video because there's an issue wherein Morrison very obviously made fun of certain plot points and writing styles that were popular across DC books at the time, going so far as to perfectly mimic Bendis speak. It could offer an excellent excuse to share your thoughts on the books being satirized in one fell swoop.
Was pleasantly surprised to hear Linkara was reviewing this one. Kinda surprised he didn't do it sooner to be honest!
Well at least Kermit the Frog won't have any trouble not featured in this episode after all.. 'It's not that easy being Green!' LOL.
I've always assumed Emerald Twilight was a big event comic, never knew it was just 3 issues.
Enough marketing can make ANY comics storyline feel like a big Event.
Same.
I did to I thought it was going to be way longer then it ended up being.
The storyline that (eventually) lead to Geoff Johns' career
You know how I see this more believably playing out?
When the Guardian orders Hal to come to Oa to turn in his Ring, Hal says something to the effect of "Y'know what?! Take it! I'm done!", throws the ring right in his face, and just remains quietly in the crater where Coast City used to be.
I read this when it was coming out and... I was not impressed. But truth be told it did have one good outcome - I ended up with Kyle Rayner and I liked him more than Jordan. I do wish Rayner's girlfriend hadn't been fridged and all but other than that he grew into a decent character.
Even as flawed as this story is, the cover of Issue 49 is an absolute masterpiece.
The key to understanding Hal's rapid heel turn is that he is trying to turn back time, to undo all of the damage to Coast City anyway. So if he has to kill his friends on his way to the power needed to accomplish that, he'll just undo that as well. He sees himself in the bad 1985 from Back to the Future 2. Whatever he does will be undone anyway, so what does it matter if he maims Boodikka or kills Kilowog? It's just temporary to him. Zero Hour wasn't conceived yet when this was written, but it's making clear that this was his motivation even here. Yes, Marz was under the gun and didn't have enough time to make this clear here, but he caught up with Hal in Green Lantern #0, and the two-parter in #63 and #64. Which is also why I really didn't like the Rebirth retcon that this was just a sentient fear insect in Hal's mind, making him do random acts of violence in order to spread even more fear. That really devalued Hal's "ends justify the means" storyarc that made him as Parallax so much more interesting than he ever was as a Green Lantern, before or after Emerald Twilight.
The problem at the time really lay with DC and deciding to rush Emerald Twilight so that it's final issue could coincide with #50. When the better course of action would have been to slot in a flashback two-parter to buy yourself time, and then START Emerald Twilight with #50 instead of ending the story there.
But still, this gave us Kyle, my favorite DC character. So I have an easier time seeing beyond this three-parter's flaws.
Honestly I think a couple of minor plot alterations would make this a lot better.
1.) Would add a bit more dramatic irony if instead of the Guardians being their usual selves, it was THEM that "broke character" a bit in that projection. Just telling Hall that they're sorry, but even if he had all the power in the universe...it wouldn't work. And then trying to revoke his powers and send him on a "forced vacation" for a while. Brusquely, but not completely without compassion. That would come off as utterly duplicitous to Hal, in his fragile mental state.
2.) Yeah, just make it so he doesn't kill anybody or maim them...right up until he snaps Sinestro's neck. That's his big "villain moment", and what gives him his sunk cost fallacy as he's draining the battery. He's already compromised his morals, why not ensure some good comes from it?
3.) Have him go back to Earth and try his projection again. It works! For days, maybe a week. And then fades away. This, I think, would be enough for Hal to believably snap again, having destroyed the power of the Green Lantern corps forever...and still failed. The Guardians were right all along. And I'd have his "villain arc" end here, honestly, with him just being a broken shell of a man with nothing to cling onto anymore.
Have him disappear, and if you want him to return again as a "villain with good intentions" you can do so after a believable amount of time has passed. Maybe have him go off to find some new power source for the Lanterns and encounter...something else, and he comes back changed, twisted, but still with a core of his morality. He tries to do good, FIX EVERYTHING with his newfound power, but everything he touches turns to ash, just like Coast City.
Awsome video as always.👍
Personally, I think is not that out of character (while the fast decline absolutely is) because post-crisis Hal was established to be volatile when put in a crisis. In Emerald Dawn, when the villain Legion makes him belive that everyone that Hal loves is dead, Hal goes for the kill and detonates a nuke at point blank, fully expecting that no one was gonna come out alive. He was shown to be capable of being reckless enough that I think with a lot more issues and propper planing, it could´ve work withouth breaking character (It would´ve needed Parallax to be a bit less villanous from the get go)
The story is a Killing Joke situation for me, while in it of itself is really bad and not excused, it did lead to the Kyle Rayner series that became my favourite Green Lantern, the awesome J. M. De Matteis Specter series, and when there´s a lot to say about Zero Hour, all other Parallax apperances where more interesting and made that facet of Hal its own character with lots of development, to the point that I thought the yellow bug retcon was unnecesary because it nulified an awesome redeption arc
So this dark cloud had a bunch of silver linnings for me
The Guardians of the Universe were really just worried Marvel would see all the green people in New Coast City and sue for infringing on the Hulk copyright.
Emerald Twilight was my introduction to Green Lantern, outside a couple stray issues and Return Of Superman. That made Kyle Rayner (like how people have “their Doctor”) my Green Lantern. Also, it was shown later that Kyle wasn’t Ganthet’s first and only choice, just his desperate last choice because he was getting weak. His first choice was Guy Gardner, who told him to F off.
You mentioned why he didn´t go to Guy Gardner.
In a MUCH later comic we basically get Guy Gardner retelling his life story and the story of the green Lantern.
In that story he tells how Ganthet actually came to him first and offered him the ring.
However at that point in his life he had been kicked out of the Green Lanterns and felt discarded by the Guardians so he basically told him to "Go to hell, and to shove his offer where the sun doesn´t shine".
The comic also mentions that the reason for the "You shall have to do line".
Is that Ganthet at that point didn´t have much energy and was basically falling apart, he had visited other people but they either all fell short or refused to take the ring.
So Kyle Rayner was basically the last one on the list.
Fun fact! Movie Bob's video discussing this comic and its fallout is how I originally discovered Linkara! Say what you will about Movie Bob as a person, but I'm thankful his shout-out brought me here
Emerald Dream before the Parallax fear bug retcon was just absolutely ridiculous. After the fear bug was introduced though, I kinda like it now if I read it under that context.
If I remember correctly, Gardner had been kicked out of the Corps at the time and was actually using Sinestro's yellow ring and calling himself Warrior.
John was actually one of the Guardians at this time, being called the Master Builder.
Yeah. I read Death of Superman not too long ago and I remember having to specifically look up why they keep saying Guy was kicked out. That and Lex apparently cloning himself a new body and pretending to be his own son.
I probably would have gone the opposite direction of your suggestion; just have Hal straight up killing the other Lanterns, but convincing himself that it's okay because he'll just bring them back, too. Properly commit to him going over the edge. But admittedly that idea would probably only work with more issues to really explore how/why he'd end up at that point, whereas your idea of Hal just defeating and depowering the other Lanterns without any deaths probably fits better in the three issue limitation.
I have been waiting for this episode forever
Ah, DC's patented neck snap
Remember when Emerald Twilight Sparkle absorbed the elements of friendship and tried to recreate her library out of magic?
In recent years, I've imagined that issue 49 cover being redone, but with Tom Brady wearing all his football championship rings, including conference championships and his ring from Michigan.
I definitely remember this storyline when it came out, as I had started reading some of the DC books at the time (I was still mainly a Marvel guy as far as comics go), and I knew of Ron Marz from his work on Silver Surfer. I always liked the -idea- of Green Lantern, going back to when I was little and watched Hal in the Super Friends cartoons, but I wasn't attached to Hal specifically, and I was fully aware of John and Guy by this point, and that Guy had been kicked out of the Corps and was using Sinestro's ring (since Sinestro wasn't using it at the time, what with having been imprisoned in the central battery) to continue being a superhero. So, I wasn't broken up about this turn, and I never had any malice toward Kyle... but, of course, I soured on the book after the fridge incident.
Oh, and apparently in a later story, Guy told the story that Ganthet did come to him first, and he basically told the Guardian to piss off. But, it's possible that Guy made that up. This was also during his Vuldarian "Warrior" phase (ugh).
On a side note, I still find it hilarious that Marvel basically aped what DC did with Guy at this time by taking the War Machine armor away from Rhodey and giving him the Eidolon Warwear instead - not quite the alien DNA retcon Guy went through, but eerily similar concepts of the ability to use morphing alien bio-armor. Only, after Onslaught, Rhodey went into retirement and the Warwear was pretty much forgotten about, while it took several years and Hal's return for Guy to get restored to his former self.
Linkara remember "OF COURSE! DON'T YOU KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT SCIENCE!!" 😁😁😁😁😂😂😂😂
My spouse grew up with Kyle Rayner as Green Lantern, and even after then, it was John Stewart on the DCAU, and Guy Gardner in Justice League International. Hal Jordan ran a distant 4th.
It's said that killing Hal Jordan was a slap in the face, but then bringing him back and shuffling Kyle Rayner away was an even bigger slap in the face to the ones who grew up with Kyle.
Kyle still played a major role in stuff afterwards. He was not “shuffled off”.
Not even close. Kyle was still around and playing a huge role in other books for years before being phased out in recent times. He wasn’t straight up character assassinated and left for dead for the next 10 years like Hal.
15:28 No. I'm pretty sure Lexcorp monopilized the market of superhero merch. Mostly to ensure there's none for Superman and other alien heroes.
One page could have fixed most of the problems. Three panels could've done it. They needed to show and focus on Hal's singular mental snap just before lunging at the Guardian's projection.
Hal: "You would discipline me? Now?!"
Guardian: "Yes."
[Fractured silhouette of Hal]
[Closeup of crazed eye]
Hal: "No."
Then revise "I want power" to "I will HAVE your power." We were cheated out of a believable 'man pushed too far' moment. We could have sypathized and grieved with our hero, but DC was already taking flack for toying with readers' emotions. Rush job and missed opportunities, oh well. Still spawned one of the best covers of all time.
I’m so glad that we’re finally getting an in depth look of the heel turn and give out a bigger explanation than:
“SO HE GOES ON A KILLING SPREE AND MURDERS EVERYONE IN THE GREEN LANTERN CORPS, COLLECTING THEIR POWER RINGS WHILE LAUGHING MANIACALLY TO GAIN EVERY BIT OF THEIR POWER!!!”
5:07 The title card of this video looks more like another take of the yandere meme, but now it featuers Linkara, all in green!
I could be the only one who thinks this.
11:31 The iconic cover that everyone associates this story with
14:55 I love this entire segment of jokes and puns and commentary
15:29 I love this comic's commentary, and Linkara's entire analysis, as it points out, JUST BECAUSE that generalization makes sense in THE REAL WORLD the audience (Us), live in, doesn't necessarily means it actually makes sense in the universe the story takes places in, OR to the character in question this "generalization" it is being applied to.
A mistake EVERYONE DOES. Fans, writers, editors, critics, etc. EVERYONE seems to think "the generalization makes sense to us in real life. IT HAS to make sense to the character". FOrgetting if it makes sense in the story's own inner logic
19:35 it is even sinestro's entire motivation during the events of "sinester corps war" to make the guardians lift out that "no killing" safeguard / rule of its programming.
IN hindsight, that dark mutliverse story of young bruce wayne overriding that safeguard, or even hal in tim king's "the gift", through sheer force of willpower alone, doesn't sound so crazy now.
Your ancient top 15 worst heroes to villains list introduced me to Voltaire's When You're Evil, so thank you for that
Whenever I think of that list. I think of the rap song about being bad sung by the late Ed Asner in the animated film Happily ever after (Yes. This is a thing)
There should have been more attention paid to Hal's exile from Earth at the hands of the Guardians, since they thought he was neglecting the rest of his sector. That should have been a mentioned part of why Hal did what he did
♫The niiiiiiiiiiiight Hal jordan went crazy
The night GL went insane♫
I didnt know i needed something this much, now we need the review of Arisia issues and the perfect Hal Trilogy will be complete
OH NO 😂
Notice how Ganthet somehow got more useless when he got to Earth. The guardians didn't just infuse him with their power...he also has the USELESSNESS of all of them combined! It just took a bit to kick in.
10:19 Oh my god! The Guardians of the Universe are actually E.A.! It all makes sense!
Oh no, Lewis broke into the ring pop factory, and he stole the world supply of green apple
They could have had it where Hal is addicted to his fake city. And he thinks having more rings will let him keep it up longer but he knows it isn't real.
He has to fight other Lanterns in his fake city.
Then he is all "I'm sorry but I have no choice but to beat you up" while crying.
This storyline got me to read Green Lantern after so many years. I remember speaking to one of Kyle Rayner's creators and he said the responsibility was on Hal's Fans for not buying enough books to sustain Jordan being the lead character. I know I'm in the minority in this but I enjoyed Kyle Rayner GL and the stories revolving around him.
your not in the minority. A lot of people really liked him as GL, ther only reason Hal replaced him again was geoff Johns being a fanboy. and no, that is not me exagerating, he said so himself.
and I stay on my opinion that GL: Rebirth was the worst thing to happen to the title, not emerald twilight. GL rebirth destroyed basically the entire legacy of GL and destroyed 15+ years of comic continuity.
I don't think you're in the minority at all. If you were, I don't think Kyle would have lasted as long as he did.
@@EnerKaizerMan, it's not like Johns created a new era merging Pre-Kyle Era and erasing Hal's character assassination. 😂😂😂
@@christianjacobs2193 which was complete and utter shyte. I despise him writting off Hals decisions here. Instead of doing an actuall good narrative he just wipes everything away like a little child who still wants to believe in santa clause out of spite.
@@EnerKaizer his characterization was complete dookie, It was character assassination.
Okay I know this gonna sound but the addition of pallralax as a beast of the fear side of spectrum and later addition of the animals god things like the will power whale is of if not the best addition to green Lateran lore
Honestly, I feel like they set up the influence of the yellow beast in this series. It was like the more energy and more rings he absorbed, the more mindless he became. I think if this were to be rewritten with an understanding of the yellow beast, I'd think there would be were more and more hints of that yellow impurity. Like in Coast City, there would be a few little details in yellow. Yellow eyes, or a yellow flag, or a yellow sign. The more he hurt people, the more guilt he built up, the more fear he had that he was doing the wrong thing, and the more rings and connections he had to the lantern battery, the more corrupt he'd become, and soon the outlines of his energy constructs were yellow. And when he discarded the rings to fight sinestro, it could be clear that the yellow impurity has left the rings and housed itself in Jordan, and it would set up the rise of the influence of the yellow ring on Sinestro.
It could even be that the guardians think they're tricking Hal Jordan by letting him into the central battery, thinking to lock him away in there. But as soon as he enters, there's a yellow flash that blocks their powers, and they realize that they can't spring their trap. Realizing that they can't stop Hal Jordan, they sacrifice themselves to create a super green ring and send it to earth with Ganthet. And as the yellow light fades to green, out steps... Parallax Armor Jordan.
21:42 "We must do that which to us has become unthinkable...we must ACT" This sums up the Guardians perfectly, passive little assholes who make everything worse with their passiveness.
Guardians of the Universe: Matching the Jedi Council's level of gross incompetence for millenia. Do "wise" protectors of the galaxy not believe in therapy or anything that helps with mental health?
Yeah... Bringing in Sinestro? The guy who's already an enemy of Hal when he's this far gone is... Baffling but perfectly in line with the Oans history.
'you will have to do.' way to be empathetic Gantet.
10:41 Apparently Parallax turned Hal into Vergil from Devil May Cry
Kyle getting the ring after leaving a dance club somehow got me thinking about marvel and Mary Jane dancing at "the deep" during maximum carnage lol..... good review. I'm so excited to see what back to the future episode linkara has lined up. I can't wait