Your trial and error is saving me a lit of time (and glass)! One point that i think is useful is if you weighed your glass you could repeat the work - i am thinking about annealing because the glass is so thick, you could repeat it, knowing the schedule was ok.
Hi Jeff, drop-outs are such fun! Here's something that can help - I've learned it in Amanda Simon's class: You need to cover the drop ring with the fiber paper of the size and shape of your square panel of glass, with a hole cut out to match the drop ring opening. Align the corners of the fiber paper with the corners of glass while placing on the ring; it creates enough separation between the ceramic ring edge and the glass, and it works every time. Must be fiber paper, not ThinFire kiln shelf paper.
Jeff, thank you so much for being so generous and show us the whole process. You are one of those few people who show not just a great project but also show the spoilt ones as well. We learn a lot from you. Thanks again.
Here is my suggestion, based on a fair amount of experience doing large slumps of heavy glass. The pieces I was making began with 24" x 24" x 1/2" blanks and the final slump was about 14" deep. I made my own molds using a steel platform with 1/2 " kiln board covering the steel form. The inside lip of the kiln board was sanded to a soft radius and slightly smaller than the opening in the steel support. Once I brought the glass up to around 1100 F I slowly brought it up to the lowest slump temp I could-this would be around 1175 F for plate glass. Somewhat lower for Bullseye. What this does is it allows the glass to evenly thin out over the entire slump so that the upper edges where it drops through the mold opening are close to the same thickness as the bottom of the bowl. It is critical to support the entire brim to keep the glass from draping over the mold and trapping it. It is also important to have enough glass around the opening of the mold so that it does not get pulled up where there is not enough weight to keep the edges flat.
Hi Jim. Thank you for that. I'm sure there are quite a number of people watching that will love the detail. That temp, 1175 F, is about where I usually slump into moulds. Sometimes less. If that was float then I would expect Bullseye to be 20 degrees lower. Over what time would the slump take once at that temp?
Oh Jeff. I really hate it that it did not turn out for you. I love your videos. The successes and the failures. We all learn from them. I’m looking forward to seeing a success on this technique in the future. Good luck.
Jeff, thank you for all your videos. I am coming into kiln work from glass blowing and I appreciate all the work you are sharing. One thing about black and white...in glass blowing, we have to really work carefully with black and white. Black is softer, absorbs heat faster, and cools faster, and stiff white is much more resistant too heading and cooling. Worked together, they can be a major challenge, since they are moving at different rates, even though they have the same COE. I plan to use Bullseye's kiln testing method (a series of strips suspended on posts and placed around the kiln shelf) to determine how b&w sheet glass work together (or work against each other).
Jeff, you are brilliant, and you will (and have mostly already) re-engineer this process! You always find the solution. I think you are right in that the corners trapped the mold but also the additional volume of glass that could have added to the dropped glass volume. I think temperature, speed and volume just need to be adjusted. I think you can still use a square piece for that mold, just trim the "ears" (corners) or round them off a lot more. I am speaking entirely out of school on this one as I have never done a drop mold, but like you, have watched and studied it as well. Keep at it, I KNOW your mind will find the best process. I love that you share your successes and lesson's. I have a wonderful boss who after a massive fraud event (in my real life I am a fraud investigator) said,. "never waste a good catastrophe!". I live by that. I am looking forward to seeing more from you on this journey! (How else am I going to learn?? lol!) 👍😉
I might just try another square piece in the future. Just to see, and I agree, maybe just a smaller overhang. Now that must be a really interesting career. A fraud investigator. Would be more interesting than a business software developer like I was. It wasn't that creative, sadly. 😁
Thanks a lot for sharing the learning process, and it' s an excellent idea to reuse the broken pieces for your second attempt. I hope you show the process. I've made slump vases with very wide brims, about 8 centimetres, so although 3 out of 4 vases disconnected from their bases, I placed the massive top parts on transparent glass pipe shaped vases, and they are impressive objects. If you would like me to post photos please write to instruct how I post them
Thanks for putting this out there! I’ve had issues with drop molds, too. I agree that the square corners trapping the mold probably contributed to the shatter. I also think opening the kiln when the temp is less than 1000 degrees Fahrenheit may have weakened the glass. (Sorry, not good at Celsius...). I have been taught that it’s okay to open the kiln when it’s below 100 degrees or above 1000, but not between as the glass is at a fragile state between these temps. I say to give it another go, as it’s our failures in life that teach us the most. I think this was a marvelous attempt.
Hi Jill. The lowest I opened it was about 650, which is about 1200 F. And it stayed in the kiln until room temp. So don't think that was a factor. And I thought the anneal time was okay, but I've had second thoughts now. Because the glass thickness varied a lot I think I should have doubled the anneal time. Probably a combination of annealing and those corners. Definitely will be making another attempt.
Hi Jeff! You know I appreciate you sharing your projects/process and pro's & cons. Drops are the most intimidating techniques for me because of the consistent lifting lid to check...if only there was a schedule to set and leave until the kiln shuts off, right? I love the design too. Looking forward to a follow-up video. Take care!
Wow, I’m amazed at how often you have to check the ‘drop’. When you walked outside I wondered if that was the sun coming up and had you been at it all night long?! Probably not. I’ve never done a drop out… but you’ve given me the courage to try. I often end up putting the kiln on later than planned and find myself out in the garden studio when the rest of the house is tucked in bed. I must say how much I love your videos…you are a marvellous explorer and teacher….thank you for sharing!
Hi Caroline. Towards the end things can happen quickly, believe me, so once it starts really dropping you need to keep checking. That was the view out the back of my studio. That was a sunset and it makes the back view look great. Hides the houses etc. I fuse during the day, or at least try to. I know what you mean and sometimes other things get in the way and the kiln goes on later. We have solar power, no battery, so I try to restrict most of the power use to daytime when it's generating. Always glad I can help with the videos.
3rd times the charm, I'm guessing it was the over hang, it's almost a perfect example of coe with stress caused by different degrees of contraction. I can see that the variation in thickness could cause a bit of a problem with the annealing and it would be interesting to know what caused the variation to occur. I've seen someone who instead of of cutting the piece from the flat with a dremel uses a tile saw to cut the flat off ( hard to explain, like rotating dremel blade 90 degrees) gives an extra 15 + mm to the height plus a neat contrating edge. As always lots of good info in your vids
Hi Paul. This is an area I'm really learning. I think I understand with cutting the rim. Does the friend have a channel or website where we can see the end result?
@@RocketRoseArt Hi, I can't find it, one of those things that turned up on my recommended list a few years back but I can't remember her name. There is an Al Heilman vid where he starts off cutting down the slab but then he finishes it with the same basic technique as every other vid I've seen
I think the blank was far too big for the ring. If you cut the corners off and cover the ring with 3mm fibre paper rough side up you will get a nice drop with sufficient grip in the fibre paper to keep the rim on the mold.
Aww, Jeff, what a bummer. I agree that the square corners and the cooling rate of your drop mold could be a factor. It might have also been that you had missed a small portion of boron nitride on the mold itself, and when the glass came in contact with it it caused a shatter when it cooled. I often have that problem if I miss a spot on a shelf or a mold myself. I've done about 20 drop out bowls, with feet, and they can be a pain. I use a schedule from Delphi Glass, which I had to tweak. www.delphiglass.com/free-patterns-projects/fusing-projects/free-poppy-sunday-dish-project-guide I did have a problem with some bowls, and I think it's the same one you had. Transparent glasses flow better than opals. Opals are stiffer, especially white. So by having a whole sheet, it made the drop slower. It's also why the transparent piece fell through, I would guess. I ended up having the mold hula hoops around one of my bowls, so I had to cut it apart. No more ring getting stuck.
Your trial and error is saving me a lit of time (and glass)! One point that i think is useful is if you weighed your glass you could repeat the work - i am thinking about annealing because the glass is so thick, you could repeat it, knowing the schedule was ok.
Thanks Chris. Absolutely.
Hi Jeff, drop-outs are such fun! Here's something that can help - I've learned it in Amanda Simon's class: You need to cover the drop ring with the fiber paper of the size and shape of your square panel of glass, with a hole cut out to match the drop ring opening. Align the corners of the fiber paper with the corners of glass while placing on the ring; it creates enough separation between the ceramic ring edge and the glass, and it works every time. Must be fiber paper, not ThinFire kiln shelf paper.
Thanks Anna. Appreciate your feedback.
Thanks for this, it was very informative. I have not yet done a drop vase, so this is most interesting.
Hi Susan. Hope it helps when you do have a go.
Jeff, thank you so much for being so generous and show us the whole process. You are one of those few people who show not just a great project but also show the spoilt ones as well. We learn a lot from you. Thanks again.
Hi J G. That's life. It doesn't always work and it's those times we do really learn. Well, maybe not always. 🤔
Here is my suggestion, based on a fair amount of experience doing large slumps of heavy glass. The pieces I was making began with 24" x 24" x 1/2" blanks and the final slump was about 14" deep. I made my own molds using a steel platform with 1/2 " kiln board covering the steel form. The inside lip of the kiln board was sanded to a soft radius and slightly smaller than the opening in the steel support. Once I brought the glass up to around 1100 F I slowly brought it up to the lowest slump temp I could-this would be around 1175 F for plate glass. Somewhat lower for Bullseye. What this does is it allows the glass to evenly thin out over the entire slump so that the upper edges where it drops through the mold opening are close to the same thickness as the bottom of the bowl. It is critical to support the entire brim to keep the glass from draping over the mold and trapping it. It is also important to have enough glass around the opening of the mold so that it does not get pulled up where there is not enough weight to keep the edges flat.
Hi Jim. Thank you for that. I'm sure there are quite a number of people watching that will love the detail. That temp, 1175 F, is about where I usually slump into moulds. Sometimes less. If that was float then I would expect Bullseye to be 20 degrees lower. Over what time would the slump take once at that temp?
Your a star .i do appreciate you putting yourself out there and showing us ❤❤❤
It's my pleasure Gill. It's all an adventure.
Oh Jeff. I really hate it that it did not turn out for you. I love your videos. The successes and the failures. We all learn from them. I’m looking forward to seeing a success on this technique in the future. Good luck.
Hi Donna. So am I. 😁 Hopefully soon.
You have a great sense of humor!! Thanks for sharing what didn't work. 1/3-1/2 of mine don't either. Steve
Hi Steve. Too old to get stressed over it. Try hard to just go with it now.
@@RocketRoseArt My attitude also at 71.
I really appreciate you sharing this. I am learning what I can before I attempt my first drop. Thanks for the lesson! You are awesome!
Glad to help Susie.
Thank you for your time for glass
It's my pleasure
Jeff, thank you for all your videos. I am coming into kiln work from glass blowing and I appreciate all the work you are sharing. One thing about black and white...in glass blowing, we have to really work carefully with black and white. Black is softer, absorbs heat faster, and cools faster, and stiff white is much more resistant too heading and cooling. Worked together, they can be a major challenge, since they are moving at different rates, even though they have the same COE. I plan to use Bullseye's kiln testing method (a series of strips suspended on posts and placed around the kiln shelf) to determine how b&w sheet glass work together (or work against each other).
Hi Ty. Welcome to fusing. Similar problems in fusing with light and dark colours. I'm a big fan of testing. It's always the best way to go.
Jeff, you are brilliant, and you will (and have mostly already) re-engineer this process! You always find the solution. I think you are right in that the corners trapped the mold but also the additional volume of glass that could have added to the dropped glass volume. I think temperature, speed and volume just need to be adjusted. I think you can still use a square piece for that mold, just trim the "ears" (corners) or round them off a lot more. I am speaking entirely out of school on this one as I have never done a drop mold, but like you, have watched and studied it as well. Keep at it, I KNOW your mind will find the best process. I love that you share your successes and lesson's. I have a wonderful boss who after a massive fraud event (in my real life I am a fraud investigator) said,. "never waste a good catastrophe!". I live by that. I am looking forward to seeing more from you on this journey! (How else am I going to learn?? lol!) 👍😉
I might just try another square piece in the future. Just to see, and I agree, maybe just a smaller overhang. Now that must be a really interesting career. A fraud investigator. Would be more interesting than a business software developer like I was. It wasn't that creative, sadly. 😁
Thanks a lot for sharing the learning process, and it' s an excellent idea to reuse the broken pieces for your second attempt. I hope you show the process.
I've made slump vases with very wide brims, about 8 centimetres, so although 3 out of 4 vases disconnected from their bases, I placed the massive top parts on transparent glass pipe shaped vases, and they are impressive objects. If you would like me to post photos please write to instruct how I post them
Hi Judith. If you go to the Copntact page on our website you can upload a photo. Would love to see it, and if you want I can show it in a video.
Thanks for putting this out there! I’ve had issues with drop molds, too. I agree that the square corners trapping the mold probably contributed to the shatter. I also think opening the kiln when the temp is less than 1000 degrees Fahrenheit may have weakened the glass. (Sorry, not good at Celsius...). I have been taught that it’s okay to open the kiln when it’s below 100 degrees or above 1000, but not between as the glass is at a fragile state between these temps. I say to give it another go, as it’s our failures in life that teach us the most. I think this was a marvelous attempt.
Hi Jill. The lowest I opened it was about 650, which is about 1200 F. And it stayed in the kiln until room temp. So don't think that was a factor. And I thought the anneal time was okay, but I've had second thoughts now. Because the glass thickness varied a lot I think I should have doubled the anneal time. Probably a combination of annealing and those corners. Definitely will be making another attempt.
Hallo Mister frohe easter
Happy Easter
Hi Jeff! You know I appreciate you sharing your projects/process and pro's & cons. Drops are the most intimidating techniques for me because of the consistent lifting lid to check...if only there was a schedule to set and leave until the kiln shuts off, right? I love the design too. Looking forward to a follow-up video. Take care!
Me too. That would make life a lot easier. Sadly, it's here to test us. 🙄
So... score the glass in a circle, right over the mold, to give it a preferred place to break? No idea if that would work
Interesting idea.
Good learning curve thank you ☺️
Hi Susan. Hard one though 😥
Wow, I’m amazed at how often you have to check the ‘drop’. When you walked outside I wondered if that was the sun coming up and had you been at it all night long?! Probably not. I’ve never done a drop out… but you’ve given me the courage to try. I often end up putting the kiln on later than planned and find myself out in the garden studio when the rest of the house is tucked in bed. I must say how much I love your videos…you are a marvellous explorer and teacher….thank you for sharing!
Hi Caroline. Towards the end things can happen quickly, believe me, so once it starts really dropping you need to keep checking. That was the view out the back of my studio. That was a sunset and it makes the back view look great. Hides the houses etc. I fuse during the day, or at least try to. I know what you mean and sometimes other things get in the way and the kiln goes on later. We have solar power, no battery, so I try to restrict most of the power use to daytime when it's generating. Always glad I can help with the videos.
3rd times the charm, I'm guessing it was the over hang, it's almost a perfect example of coe with stress caused by different degrees of contraction. I can see that the variation in thickness could cause a bit of a problem with the annealing and it would be interesting to know what caused the variation to occur. I've seen someone who instead of of cutting the piece from the flat with a dremel uses a tile saw to cut the flat off ( hard to explain, like rotating dremel blade 90 degrees) gives an extra 15 + mm to the height plus a neat contrating edge. As always lots of good info in your vids
Hi Paul. This is an area I'm really learning. I think I understand with cutting the rim. Does the friend have a channel or website where we can see the end result?
@@RocketRoseArt Hi, I can't find it, one of those things that turned up on my recommended list a few years back but I can't remember her name. There is an Al Heilman vid where he starts off cutting down the slab but then he finishes it with the same basic technique as every other vid I've seen
@@paulhampton938 I'll have a look around. Might be able to find it.
I think the blank was far too big for the ring. If you cut the corners off and cover the ring with 3mm fibre paper rough side up you will get a nice drop with sufficient grip in the fibre paper to keep the rim on the mold.
Hi Elizabeth. Yep, too big. I'm going to try a disc the size of the mould net time. Thanks for the info.
oh mein gott ,
Well said.
Aww, Jeff, what a bummer. I agree that the square corners and the cooling rate of your drop mold could be a factor. It might have also been that you had missed a small portion of boron nitride on the mold itself, and when the glass came in contact with it it caused a shatter when it cooled. I often have that problem if I miss a spot on a shelf or a mold myself.
I've done about 20 drop out bowls, with feet, and they can be a pain. I use a schedule from Delphi Glass, which I had to tweak.
www.delphiglass.com/free-patterns-projects/fusing-projects/free-poppy-sunday-dish-project-guide
I did have a problem with some bowls, and I think it's the same one you had. Transparent glasses flow better than opals. Opals are stiffer, especially white. So by having a whole sheet, it made the drop slower. It's also why the transparent piece fell through, I would guess.
I ended up having the mold hula hoops around one of my bowls, so I had to cut it apart. No more ring getting stuck.
There's a lot to think about and consider. At least the follow up worked, sort of. But I have a lot to learn with these.