The Psychological Torture Of The Victorian Workhouse | Secrets From The Workhouse | Absolute History
Вставка
- Опубліковано 24 тра 2021
- In Victorian England the Workhouse formed the basis of society. The poor and destitute entered Workhouses to receive free health care and food. But in a society that viewed poverty as a crime, these workhouses were never meant to comfort. It was a means to punish the destitute and encourage future independence. In this two-part documentary, several UK celebrities explore how their ancestors survived the difficult environment of the Workhouse and discover some unexpected family secrets which shock and inspire them in turn.
It's like Netflix for history... Sign up to History Hit, the world's best history documentary service and get 50% off using the code 'AbsoluteHistory' bit.ly/3vn5cSH
This channel is part of the History Hit Network. Any queries please contact: owned-enquiries@littledotstudios.com
📺 It's like Netflix for history! Sign up to History Hit, the world's best history documentary service, and enjoy a discount on us: bit.ly/3vdL45g
@The mysterious Miss X poppipiijjkiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii99
Dickens was a reporter he didn't do anything about it.
@@bizarte24_ wrong. He established homes for young women and financed training, and in some cases their immigration to North America.
Oops, I started watching this video with the impression it would focus on "The Psychological Torture Of The Victorian Workhouse" I was mistaken.
Ron h
It is so infuriating that men had no social responsibility for the children they fathered. They could just walk away and avoid any sort of embarrassment but women were instead publicly shamed and punished for the rest of their lives. Disgusting.
Well at least we know men got away from their parental responsibilities like they do today,however,
Welcome to the patrical society which is...well...life!
Women have always been punished for the burden of birthing children
@@clare2401 sadly, yes, even still.
I think girls could make the fathers of their children responsible. I know of two cases where girls took their boyfriends to court for paternity and in both cases the men were ordered to pay 5 shillings a week till the child was 14 so there was some recompense. Naturally tax payers were unwilling to keep other men's kids.
Think about how many children, disabled people, and sexual assault survivors were victims of this system. Absolutely horrible. This must’ve caused a lot of intergenerational trauma.
It's still in our DNA today
As a decsendant of several workhouse victims i can attest to that! and in discovering the records it helped me understand so much of my story, and it helped me to heal for my babies.
@@christ-thekey3246 I’m sorry your ancestors went through that. We’re testaments to our ancestors strength and survival!
@@tomparker962 Yes, genetic pain.
@@TheWirdbird what a joke!
Imagine how many women were raped and then punished for having ‘illegitimate’ children
Let's not imagine that !!!
being punished for q crime they were the victim of
I was disappointed that this wasn't addressed when the woman says "she was a goer". Um, lady. How easy would it be to rape a woman already acused of having an illegitimate child, had already been in a workhouse before, and accuse her of adultury. Rape must have been overwhelming common 😭😭
@@pinkiestar99 And sadly it still is :(
@@pinkiestar99 Exactly! Honestly my heart kind of lightens a bit at the thought that luckily many people in the comments noticed the same thing here.
Imagine being dead in heaven after having lived a horrible pauper life full of abuse and sadness, and then watching down from your cloud as you see your grandchild learning about your life and drawing the same conclusion that you must've been one hell of a hoe.
My heart breaks for all those rape victims in history who still get judged as 'adultrous sluts' to this day.
My mum is a retired neurologist; the specialist hospital she worked at saw a large number of dementia patients. She often told me about various elderly dementia patients, who were local to the area, who would be in severe distress about coming to the hospital, and some would even fight against stepping inside because they thought they were being sent to the workhouse. The hospital was a very old building and had originally been the workhouse for the area. The majority of dementia patients retain their long-memories of decades past, and these poor people remembered the building as the workhouse and thought that they were going to be left there. My mum says she could scarcely imagine the horrors of the workhouse, so terrible the thought of it terrified her patients.
Not the best place for a hospital to house patients with dementia. That's so sad, I'm sure they were absolutely terrified!
Listening to Mary's story has made my great, great grandmother Mary Ellen seem even more remarkable to me - when my grandmother died four years ago, we found legal paperwork that referred to a court case that was brought by Mary Ellen back in 1902. Mary Ellen had an illegitimate daughter, and not only did she keep her daughter, but she actually took the father of her child to court for maintenance for her and won her case. She must have been an amazingly brave woman.
Not only brave but remarkable.
It would have been considered their fault and shame to bear unfortunately
Yes! She got him under 'Bastardy Laws'! If a sole relationship could be proved, 'beyond a shadow of a doubt' the man under the 'Bastardy Laws' could go to prison, if he didn't support his child! Fair play to her, one fine, brave woman! May she rest in eternal peace xxx
Unfortunately, in 'Holy Catholic Ireland', if a young woman was 'below' the 'social standing of the male and his family!' Many a young girl could be signed away for life, as being 'morally insane'! As has been proved by the Tuam scandal and the Magdalanes, poor, under educated girls, often dragged up in childrens homes themselves and led to believe, because their mothers were 'whores' they deserved the wicked treatment meeted out to them!!! Ffs they were innocent babies and their mothers were no whores! Interfamily incest, lower socio/economic circumstances, I could go on and on ..... but nobody cares about the repercussions, clanging down the years, like an old, cracked bell.
Good for her! She must have been amazing.
How do we not know that some of these pregnant women who were shunned and sent to the work house to give birth because of an extramarital affair weren’t actually victims of rape?
Why are the men always seen innocent of moral crimes .takes 2 to get pregnant. No excuse for double standard . Same still goes on today
I’m sure some were. Times were bad back then for many people.
I was thinking while watching that...how many of those poor women were victims of rape, being punished for it when the pregnancys were not their fault, if from rape.
@@angeliquethorn4525 Because it's a man's world. Women are just living in it. I give my rib in order to have a fall guy. Works for me. Sign me up🤣😂
@@jaymeshogan1019 You are hilarious.
She didn't necessarily "have bad taste in men". She didn't have access to better men. She also didn't have a realistic avenue out of the workhouse without getting married. It looks like she was actively propelled toward a bad marriage with a lousy man.
Exactly!
I really feel he was not a good man. Just one looking for a desperate women to take as his own, a slave through marriage. Yet when she got pregnant he didnt want the responsibility for it and turned her out, pregnant. All he had to do was lie about her to the church and poor house.
John got betrayed and cheated on. Mary Liddell had an extra martial affair on her husband of 18 years, and got pregnant by another man. She ended up in the workhouse because her own choices. Its very difficult to feel any sympathy for a woman who has a home and a family with a man whom she then CHEATS ON! He did the right thing by throwing her out. The only person in this story who deserves sympathy is her husband who's wife turned into a lousy woman and cheated on him.
Maybe even raped? Who knows
@@mattjack3983 remember that this was before paternity testing was a thing. Yes, the story is that Mary cheated on John, but the only records are annotations in a book failing to list a father for her child. She could have been raped, he could have wanted another woman or suspected she was with someone else when she wasn't...there could be a lot more to the story and as they pointed out, back then it was the woman who was blamed for the "sin" of an illegitimate (or suspected illegitimate) child. In any event, the focus in this story isn't who has it worse off between men and women, the focus of this story is POVERTY and the shitty ways we humans have dealt with it. I don't see a need to be mudslinging at people long since dead.
What damages you in your childhood has the opportunity to be corrected in adulthood.
I left an abusive home at barely 17.
Now 67, I've had 50 years to correct and change the first 17.
Growing up is hard enough, learning what is needed to survive.
When you've been damaged or suffered, it's twice as hard to succeed because you have to do two jobs.
For many years you're working wounded.
That take enormous energy.
I was born and raised in England. So true what you said here.
How true! I also fled my abusive father at the age of 17 and I'm now almost 67 like you are. It's been a lot of hard work but he's long dead, my doormat mother who never protected me is gone, I'm still here...and my abusive siblings have no power over me.
This defines my entire life, almost 46, barely surviving
Yeah but it can go the other way too have a decent childhood career life and then be abused traumatized lose all self esteem and dignity be abused by the system too later in life etc.
💫
"The Victorians were high moral people..."
Sure, as long as you were rich. If you weren't you got kicked around like a piece of garbage because that's all you were to them.
High morals, my ass!
That hasn't changed though has it - the poor still get kicked around like a piece of garbage, at least in the UK.
@@LittleKitty22 how can you even begin to compare how the poor lived in the Victorian age to how they live now ? There is no poverty anymore people get benefits in fact families on benefits are far better off than many working families people today have no idea what it's like to be poor.
@@sugarsundae3400 Aw Gawd, you have no idea what bullshit you´re talking. Just read Owen Jones´s wonderful book Chavs and you might be enlightend according the real facts.
@@sugarsundae3400 You are high out of your mind if you think poverty has simply been eradicated. Poverty has shifted into a new beast...you have NO IDEA
@@LittleKitty22 Yup. It's bad in the US
We must be thankful for the great Charles Dickens for exposing the whole rotten system.
Well, Dickens' writing did little to end this misery.
What’s the title? I’d like to read it.
@@salimas7979 I think they're referring to his book 'Oliver Twist' about a young boy in the workhouse. Great book by Charles Dickens, always the man the write against the system of rich people exploiting the poor.
@@ladyvampirella thank you. I’ll read it.
Yes, Oliver Twist is popular here in America. How I learned of orphans in work houses.
I think it is VERY convenient to think this woman had an affair. During this time between the harshness of life, caring for NINE children, the stigma of adultery and everything she had to lose, it seems just as likely if not more so that she was pregnant by force or coercion!
Nine children, the stigma of adultery and everything she had to lose, it seems just as likely if not more so that she was pregnant by force or coerion !
Maybe Mary never had an affair. Maybe John just accused her of one so he could marry some one younger. Back then you could get away with terrible treatment of spouses.
You still can now unfortunatley!
In the UK until 1991, it was legal for a husband to rape his wife. Not that long ago.
Maybe Mary never had an affair. Maybe John just accused her of one so he could marry someone younger. Back then you could get away with terrible treatment of spouses.
@@tayloranderson7547 why did you write the exact same thing as the original poster? This looks suspicious to me.
@@tamarathornton5331 they did it on multiple comments. Annoyingly 🙄
I wish someone in this documentary would point out that very often these women did not have "affairs".....they were RAPED, IMPREGNATED AND FORCED TO CARRY AND GIVE BIRTH TO A CHILD. There was no morning after pill,. No confronting an employer who raped you, because, at that time (and even now) people assumed the woman did something to lead the rapist on. Please stop constantly referring to it as an "extra-marital affair" when the reality could have simply been the constant abuse of power of rich over poor.
It's amazing that they don't address this at all in the documentary. A production by men, I assume.
@@sashatheelf Probably...except that the mindset goes so deep and has been instilled in us for so many thousands of years, most women still fall into the trap of thinking this way too. We still have a long way to go. The more little reminders women can give to other women and to the world, the more we can continue to shift the mindset....one teeny bit at a time. It took thousands of years to create this way of thinking. It will take far longer than a hundred to subvert it.☹️I know you know all of this. It is just a heads up to the frustrated women out there. We have to keep chipping away at this...(and keep standing up for each other.)
@Blue White do you not think some of these women were raped? If you think not you’re sadly mistaken. Rape is not as common today is what it was when there was no law against it and no record of it. Never discredit someone else’s hardships just because you don’t directly know. The difference between today versus then is the advanced technology as well as women got tired and started to speak up.
@@cac2821 amen
@@cac2821 SAY IT LOUDER
My grandfather was born in the workhouse. A fact that’s often overlooked is that this was the only place many poor women could be sure of medical attention during childbirth. Most - my great-grandmother included - simply stayed there for a few days before returning to their normal lives.
The only place many poor woman could be sure of medical attention during childbirth. Most my great grandmother include simple stay there for a few days before raining to Thier normal lives.
very true. thank you for bringing this to light
As usual, society blames the woman but not the man, when the man was equally responsible for the illegitimacy of the child...and in reality, the man was often even MORE responsible if the woman was the victim of rape.
Sadly, this same hypocrisy and double standard continues today.
Where does it continue today?
@@mattaddison1910 buddy its everywhere
@@frogfacepaladin Example, please.
As always, the women and children suffer for their entire life, while the men involved, simply go on with their normal lives. There is absolutely no shame or embarrassment associated with their behaviour, it was ALL on the women’s shoulders! So incredibly wrong!
Husband's were separated from their wives in alot of cases. Men typically worked in heavy industries such ship yards, mines and steel foundries. Alot of these men were the bread winners remained so until they were injured or killed in the work place with little or no compensation. In some cases men and women had relationships out of marriage and their were dire consequences of their actions. It was the ruling elite at every step of the way that made the poor and destitute pay for their social status. Almost always a tory government made up of rich men who made it almost impossible for anybody to better themselves.
Well, Brian Cox's grandfather didn't have it easy at all....
Men still don’t consider the social, moral & morale, the
unreasonable expectations of bosses, that women must shoulder throughout their lives. Can i get a AMEN
And that the reason we dont have to.bring children to this depressing world
@The mysterious Miss X don’t experiment with sex? What a stupid thing to say! When you’re young, attractive, have a healthy libido and poor; it’s damn near impossible to not give into your desire.
I recognize Mr. Carson from Downton Abbey’s voice as the narrator. He has a great voice and is a great actor
Exactly! I guess it's indeed him
Awesome guesswork!! And I agree wholeheartedly
I was just checking the comments to see if anyone else thought this was narrated by “Mr. Carson.”
I THOUGHT it was him!!
Such a classy voice. Loved him as stuffy yet a push over Mr Carlson🥰
My Great Great Grandmother was widowed in 1903 with 5 children ..... by 1905 she had 2 further children father unknown , in 1905 her 6 younger children including my Great Grandmother were put into the workhouse never to live full time with their mother again .... in 1907 she had a further illegitimate child .
The family splintered into 3 sections and over time the descendants of the sections didn’t know about each other .
It’s taken 100 years but through DNA testing all of us descendants of her children are now in regular contact and many of us get together when we can
That's a wonderful story - reconnecting after 100 years!! Bless you!
I hope there is some healing of the wounds of unknown origin.
I am so happy for you!!
How cool!!!
That’s amazing! I bet your Great Great Grandmother could never have imagined that would be possible! I’m sure she knows and it brings her peace💓
Thank God for Dickens. He documented this Victorian world for all of us to learn and grow. And this show validates much of his writings on the subject of poor people at this time. Sure hope we don't repeat history.
And Catherine Cookson!
Dickens has made a society of parasites that don't work because it's easier not too!! You clearly don't see where it's gone wrong!!
My Grandmother was terrified of the workhouse that turned into a hospital... it was horrendous, and vile way to treat humans.
The fact that Frida was never able to see little Edith again shattered me omg 😭
I do wonder if at least little Edith was ever made aware that her sister reached out and wanted her to love with her. I sure hope so
My adopted mother was called Edith Freda.Born around 1915,I think.I was adopted when my folks were in their 40s & last year, learned quite a lot about my British connections & some USA facts of which I was unaware.
I'm over here crying with them when they cry.
Me too!!!! 😭😭😭
🤥
I’m a ‘sympathetic cryer’ too! 🌷
Regardless of what you find when researching your family, you should never be ashamed of them. I found out that my father was the result of an affair my grandma had, I don't care, I loved my father very much and grandma was a hoot and I loved her too.
Why would anyone hate a parent for being concieved out of an affair? That's just silly.
@@gypsyblack5994 My father's older brother sent me some documents about it. I looked at my cat and we danced around the kitchen singing 'Grandma had an affair, that's why Grandpa left." My Dad was my hero, he loved the U.S. Navy, so I went in the Navy.
I found out my Grandfather had shot civilians, woman with small baby sitting in the snow during the war. My Aunty told me. I was so upset. Grandfather said to my aunty they would have froze to death anyway which made it all worse for me. I think he was sadist bastard, he also treat his own family like shit. I am very a shamed of all this and I try to do good things, donate to charities helping others as some sort of way making it better, but I am fully aware I can't 😭
@@garycooper9207 You shouldn't be ashamed of what your Grandfather did, if you had been there you could not have stopped him. We are not responsible for the things that our ancestors did, we can only learn from them and not repeat the actions. There's nothing that I can say that will make you not feel badly toward you Grandfather, but try to do the best you can in this life. Wishing you the best.
My grandma was stepping out with my grandfather (13th child of a renter farmer), despite her father forbidding it. Then, when he wanted her in finishing school, Grandma was 17 and pregnant with my mother. My great-grandfather NEVAH forgave her! Wanted to disown her, but I guess Great-Grandma sat on him. My great-uncle told us about how that old-world-thinking, land-grabbing, society-aspiring never-rich old coot (his dad) was - but such were those times.
His reaction to “He would have seen his granddaughter” was absolutely heartwarming ♥️
When my grandfather and his 13 siblings were orphaned the baby was adopted by a family and the older children were sent to work at farms ect , but the little ones were raised in a mental institution.I've always felt so bad for the little ones.That was in the US in 1942.
Better than the streets?
Which is what is available now.
Most "mental institutions " of the early to mid 1900s were mixed institutions; homeless were taught work skills so they would not remain forever indigent.
See the Wikipedia entry for Eloise in the Detroit Michigan area. It was typical of state and community run institutions.
That's so sad 💔
How very SAD 😔.
Etc short for etcetera. 'Ect' is incorrect
@@xtianosickboy Many (incorrectly) pronounce it "ec-cetera". It happens.
I think that's horrible too criminalise people just because they're poor.
But they weren't criminalised cos they were poor, they admitted themselves to workhouses for various reasons some because they were out of work some because of illness. others because of alcoholism my dad was a Post boy who delivered to the workhouse, some were there only temporarily till their luck changed. the younger males were expected to chop wood etc towards their keep.but the old and infirm didnt. One man had been well to do,had emigrated to America, succeeded, owned 3 pubs, but drank himself almost to death .returned home to end his life in the workhouse. The inmates seemed reasonably happy, so probably a humanely run place, but of course could never feel like a real home Abandoned babies were also cared for there, usually given surnames from where they were found, such as Jane Hill.Another baby was abandoned in a farmers field. he adopted it, could he have been its dad? or perhaps his daughter its mother, if so a good way of keeping the child in the family, without fingers being pointed(Perhaps I do him an injustice he could have been just a caring person) A lot will come out with modern DNA.
That's capitalism for you.
@@fawnieee No, that is not capitalism, but rather the old medieval ways of Britain. You might consider just how incomplete the capitalist revolution really was here. Or how incomplete MOST revolutions turned out to be. A large part of the old order continued, like a Lombardy poplar tree recently cut down continues to send up suckers.
People are still criminalised for being poor
@@india1422 sadly yes
These sad stories were told with such integrity. It’s shameful how so-called civil societies treat their poor…then and now.
20:19
Absolutely perfect conditions for child abuse of any sort and child slavery.
What a terrific system to make sure almost everybody got as unhappy as possible: mothers without their children, children without their parents or anybody who cared.
Capitalism truly is evil.
I was sexualy abused in children homes spanning since 60 so I agree that women children were abused and could ended up pregnant in workhorse by those ran them
I always thought that the work house system was a victorian problem I had no idea that this disgusting system was in use until after WW2
Some workhouses closed finally in 1970! Incredible xx
As late as 1994 I worked for a boss who was a Freemason, he used to say that it was a person's own fault if they were poor. So this attitude was alive and well in the late 20th century. I am sure there are still people who think like that today.
@@marilynkennedy8236 It's the whole "Derserving" and "Undeserving" poor argument that has been going on forever, isn't it? The Victorians were the first to organise Poor Relief en mass and I think their intentions were good. Did the right things always happen to the right people? Of course not, that is life and regardless of the help people have received there will always be people who complain. Workhouses were far from perfect but they did help hundreds of thousands of people (if not millions of people) to obtain medical help and shelter. They were designed to be survival places, not places of luxury where families could grow dependant together (unlike modern relief). I've got to be honest, I'm horrified by the comparisons people are making between modern social security and workhouses - we truly have no idea what it was to live at a time where your options were to be interred or to starve on the streets xx
@@kaelaleedaley Thank you for your response. I am sure you are right in what you say. Nothing much changes in attitudes does it. Although we have come a long way in terms of social care.
@@marilynkennedy8236 I totally agree. Gratitude is a sorely lacking attitude today with all our wealth and comfort xx
When you read and listen to these stories of survival, you realise two things. One, the laws are written for the wealthy, and always have been. Only a few glorious people have fought for great change and achieved it. I am so grateful to them. Two, we are all the survivors. We are the descendants of the survivors of the Black Death, Civil wars, Plagues, disease, world wars, industrialisation, transportation, clearances, workhouses, poverty - all the world has thrown at our ancestors. We are the survivors. In fact, the cream of the crop. And now we face another “plague”. Ah well.
The laws were generally WRITTEN by the wealthy which explains a lot.
Also ‘we are the survivors’… I really like the way you’ve expressed this. Very well stated : ) 🌷
@@PhoenixFires9 Thank you Bernadette. I’ve done YEARs of history ( an MA Hons plus an Archive post grad, plus 30 years of researching family history for mine and others). People forget how they came to be, right now. We really are the product of our ancestors- we live in much more peaceful, law abiding, comfortable, times. People don’t die of starvation in first world countries- unless in unusual circumstances. We are better educated, better fed, better housed, it’s all a matter of degree. We may think the Victorian Age was better, but only for the top 15% or so. Not for women, never for women.
I absolutely agree!
Funny I was talking about this the other day .we are descendents of survivors so we are like u said the cream of the crop .
You don't realize how completely important family is until you start losing them. This was a touching episode
This made me Cry for all those poor, sick, Disabled people because I too am Sick and Disabled, and poor and Alone. God Please hold them in you're Loving Arms and take away their hurt and pain. Thank you my Lord. Amen.
why is the possibility of rape not mentioned?! It's very likely... as sad as it is.
They were quoting the records, and rape was rarely seen as valid. Sex was often seen as a man’s right, and even if a woman said no to a stranger, she would still have been held at fault for various stupid reasons. So the records wouldn’t reflect this.
I was just thinking that. And for the first woman who was thrown out for her illegitimate son.
Or maybe this was actually her husband's child, but the husband falsely accused her for some reason
The women suffered the consequences of rape and were blamed for becoming single mothers ! Terrible times !
@@Tatiana_Palii Indeed. One of the main reasons was that the husband wanted to marry another woman...
From what I know, form watching these programs, it was even harder for widowed mothers. Such sad circumstances.
We have a geriatric hospital that used to be a workhouse and elderly people in this city were absolutely terrified of going there. I think it was a very poor choice for the NHS to utilise this building for that purpose. It should have been razed to the ground and a new hospital built. Government funding at it’s best - again😡
Oh wow
and the elderly are one of the most vulnerable groups. Making a building a hospital where the people who need it the most are scared of it isn't a wise choice, it's a horrible one. it should have been either destroyed and rebuilt like you said or just use another plot of land
Is that Brightom?
@@567Katii No it is in Aberdeen in Scotland
Either that or make it a school or some place for the younger generations that don't have any association of the building with the workhouse. Who tf thought it would be a great idea to make it a place for those who actually remember it as being a workhouse? Omg!
Brian Cox is astounded that a single father was expected to work and care for a child at the same time. What does he think single mothers have always done?
Victorian times and modern times were completely different, back then there was no welfare, no daycare, no free schooling and typical jobs were 12 hours a day, 6 days a week. Typical women's jobs like weaving, light farm work and housework you could do while looking after a child because most of the work was done at a home so it was a relatively safe environment for children.
You couldn't be a laborer or miner and look after a child at the same time because it would simply be far too dangerous for the child.
Paupers had very limited options for work so they could only take what was on offer..
@@IvarDaigon LOL you destroyed her argument so badly, she STILL hasn't returned from the twilight zone!
If the workhouses had actually contributed to society by producing needed goods rather than focusing on punishment, they might have accomplished their goal of giving the poor and destitute a purpose and means of earning their way out. Instead, they put residents to hard, pointless labor. Like modern welfare, they trapped people there, exacerbating an already dire situation. “Please, sir. I want some more.”
What’s morally disheartening, though, is they punished entire families for their destitution.
Best comment ever. Give one a fish and one will not be hungry for a day, give one a knowledge of cathing a fish and one will not go hungry. Of course with modification... i have had some dealings with homless and to be honest many of them prefer it and dont want any housing because in the housing you are not allowed to abuse alcohol or such.
More like the Gulag
@@mrsmerily your ‘re not? Since when?
They should’ve planned to be rich, right? So sad
So sad
“ 24 Hours in the past “ is a BBC reality show about this very subject, it’s really neat, informative, AND a lot of fun 👍
...fun might not be the best wording for such disparity. My heart is literally breaking hearing these stories. But thanks for sharing ! BBC is awesome
Thanks for sharing!
I worked as a temp for awhile at Paddington Hosp in the early 80s and staff told me the older people refused to attend there as it had been a workhouse, and old social memories were passed down thru the (few) generations.
Those in dire poverty are still viewed as criminals, especially by the out of touch wealthy, most of whom have never worked a day in their lives. Nothing changes.
@@OpalBLeigh Yep
In all this discussion of affairs and infidelity, there's zero discussion of sexual violence. It doesn't make the women more or less deserving of what happened, but it does complicate the story and is worth talking about. To clarify, when I said "deserving," I meant deserving of having been treated so poorly as a result of the pregnancy, and no one deserves that.
Well I would certainly say any women who were impregnated by sexual violence did NOT deserve what happened to them as a result.
@@audreymuzingo933 To clarify, when I said "deserving of what happened," I meant deserving of being disowned, cast aside, put in a workhouse, losing their job, etc.
@@audreymuzingo933 and no one deserves that--regardless of the origin of their pregnancy.
@@loveisvulnerability Okay thank you for clarifying.
They ALL didn't get raped though. Id say the percentage of that is pretty small.
Me? Oh I'm just crying like river over these stories. So heartbreaking and emotional to hear the struggle there people had to endure for no good reason. Thankfully Albert gave us hope!
watching this makes me wonder if there is generational trauma that is filtering down for ripping families apart like this.
Of course there is. Dna is strong.
There definitely is.
Epigenetics. Yes
My great grandmother was a Barnardo girl whose parents were in and out of the workhouse. She was sent to Canada from England. There, she was trained to be a housemaid in Peterborough, Ontario, and she ended up working for a family near Alliston. Later, when she was married with her own children, she was adamant about taking in a home child. My mom grew up living with her, and applied for her Barnardo home records. They are some of the saddest documents I’ve ever read.
32:00 is the perfect example of just how close we are to our ancestors. His mother was held by the man he’s learning about. It immediately connects him to his relative via touch. Phenomenal.
This!
I bet a lot of these people had chronic ailments that drove them into the workhouse. The term "chronic bronchitis" was used for asthma not so long ago, I wouldn't be surprised at all if that was also the case back then
Agreed! I have MS. If I had been born to a really poor family, I could very well have gone to a poorhouse.
Active Tuberculosis would have been common in crowded, malnourished and already sick workhouse inmates.
@@PhoenixFires9 I have MS as well. I'm thankful everyday that I live in this time and in the US. Things could be so much worse for us with a disability.
@@j3licat Absolutely right! I’m truly grateful we live in this day and age. I got diagnosed in 2001 (approx.). I can’t imagine I would have been able to have survived 20+ years with it back then. 🇨🇦
🌷🌷🌷🌷🌷🌷🌷🌷🌷🌷🌷🌷🌷🌷
@@PhoenixFires9 I was diagnosed in 2015, but told I likely had it for near a decade according to my older lesions. This means I likely had it in middle school.
Just listening to all of the things people were expected to get done back then makes me tired.
It is sad that "illegitimate children" were often a product of s.assult and abuse. It had to go unspoken about, and many women were accused of "cheating" on their husband's.
It's also interesting to consider that many people "died in the workhouse" because it provided the only healthcare available to them. People would go to the workhouse for the hospital and then if they got better they'd be kicked out or have to work. But many times they'd die there.
I love Absolute History. Can't get enough. Really good stuff.
Just found this and for someone who did not like history in school( maybe because it was so dull) this is so interesting.
I love Absolute History. Can't get enough. Really good stuff.
It really saddens me that in cases of illegitimate children, they put the responsibility on the woman - "She broke the moral code." Yes, in those times there were these strict moral rules, but genealogy does not reveal the exact circumstances in which the woman must have been. She may very well have been the victim of rape. Or maybee she had a drunken thug for a husband. Afairs do not just randomy occur. At least the Woman at 17:50 ist showing some empathy.
P.S. I would like to see it addressed that genealogy generally does not provide such answers. Occasionally there are significant sources, but not usually. Also the documentary does not talk about sexual violence in a differentiated way, as other comments have pointed out.
At least in in one case it became clear that the second husband was a drunk. As you can see at 27:49 . So we actually get some rare context about the circumstances of the family and especially the condition the children were in.
It was a very different time. It's not comparable to our own. They didn't know the future would have a different moral code.
And affairs DO just happen. People get drunk in bars and throw their family and marriage away with one poor decision. Because they're bored.
@@jonna541 Always handy to blame a man, eh? No worries... we're used to it. 🤣🤣
@@haggis525 She's just saying it takes an egg AND a sperm to make a fetus, but women used to bear all the responsibility and shame of unwed pregnancy. She's not blaming men so sit down.
@@audreymuzingo933 In this case, the woman was married and had 9 children. Then a tenth with another man.. that's not an "accident" it's a choice. These days a woman can do exactly that and walk away with half of everything and child support/alimony. Good times.
It happened to me. My ex-wife and I have 5 children and she had a 6th while married to me by another man.
She received, all in, just over 900K from me - I say "from me" because she didn't have an income of her own. Now, I don't resent paying out to support my children at all - mine and, therefore, my responsibility but I reckon I did resent paying for the other child(not mine).
I will stand up if I wish - I don't take orders from you.
Crikey I didn't expect this to be so emotional. Makes you wonder what your own family went through.
THEY ENDURED, AS WE MUST.
@@jaxsmith1204 🙏 Not my wisdom, found here, from a respected Elder, was life changing for me:
ua-cam.com/video/kflzHG4Gucs/v-deo.html
My uncle has been trying to trace the family tree found out my grandmother was adopted (she died not knowing this) turns out she was adopted from shepherd's bush, moved upto Cumbria. Her little sister Betty was found in Australia a good few year ago. The mind boggles.....
16 million people in 100 years passing through the workhouse. That's a lot of poor destitute people in one nation.
I remember Oliver Twist getting kicked out of the workhouse for just asking for seconds for dinner. Sadly, a lot of people strive for people who aren’t otherwise as privileged to go into institutions like this. Now a days, this would be the middle class, and people with barriers to employment, such as those with disabilities.
One boy, boy for sale!
He's going cheap, only seven guineas!
That or thereabout.
Oliver Twist wasn't kicked out of the workhouse, he was sold as an apprentice funeral director. Sold. For money. This wasn't unusual, nor was the abuse Twist suffered as a result!
I grew up with these stories here in Canada unfortunately many of these kids were not treated well here many died from abuse and neglect. Sad stories. Some really faired well and live on and their ancestors are here to this day.
I am crying through this whole program omg poor children poor women and poor Patrick trying his hardest to get a job to take care of his son... So darn sad
Such a great documentary for free this is insane
Agreed.
I believe the BBC funded these episodes. So they weren’t free, but they are online for free to those of us not in the UK, which is amazing.
You gotta love UA-cam for this....
I love it when people who've never spent a year working manual labor complain about other people's work ethic. Like dude, I worked with my hands in crap jobs for 7 years while putting myself through school and helping my wife raise our babies. I now make 10x as much for half the effort. It isn't always about not wanting to work, it is about not having opportunities to better your life. What good does a job do if it still doesn't pay for the basics and you are still surrounded by the hardships of everyday life. Try struggling to pay for food, shelter, and heat, and then boom you get sick and miss work, and then trying to recover from that boom you and your wife are arguing about money, and then boom your car needs a new water pump you can't afford, and then boom the apartment company ups your rent at the end of the year.
Not to mention that in the USA there is no Universal Health Care so better hope there are no medical bills. I was blessed to have family that cared and believed enough in me to help me through hard times, both financially and emotionally. Not everyone has that.
Poverty is the greatest human suffering especially when ill. I cannot imagine, this is too depressing to watch. 😰
Too many people apply the bible literally. It says, The poor have ye with ye always,, and it creates situations like this. In my opinion, that is not remotely helpful.
Listening to Barbara’s mum’s letter to the NSPCC to try and get her sister back from NSW was heartbreaking, I was in floods of tears. The NSPCC obviously had good intentions but reunification with your people should always be their top priority whenever possible.
I have a paternal ancestor that was a pauper inmate in england in the 1800s. I would love to have a detailed story on them as well. That's so cool for them to know their stories.
Humanity is creepy. The transparency about reality of everything lately has made existence mind blowing EVEN up til the present!
The problem is most recently that not enough minds ARE blown and too many of us still go about our daily lives as if there's nothing wrong with our totalitarian governments and the newest apartheid that is forming around this wannabe "vaccine" that now gives those who've opted for it 13x more likelihood of getting the most recent engineered virus.
My Grandmother was born in 1899 and died aged 94. In her last few years she repeated asked us to promise that we wouldn't let her be put in the workhouse. We promised and assured her we would look after her at home. We did. She was scared of the workhouse.
Oh this is so sad. 😭
Thanks and bless u!😊
Such a sad story for a country who wielded so much power in the world, and with their own people such poverty. The poor little children 😢
oh, the stories you learn from family histories! so interesting yet slightly appalling at the same time…
Slightly?
@@LuchadorMasque The exact one-word comment I was going to make.
@@LuchadorMasque my thought exactly.
Those are heartbreaking stories. Truly. And Albert? Great strong man as were all survivors of the workhorse
A hard,hard life for these poor people. How blessed I am.
"Strange" to hear Jim Carter talking about Ripon in this great documentary, reminding him talking about Ripon as an actor in Downton Abbey. Mr Carter is absolutely perfect as a narrator in this kind of documentaries, enjoying both what we watch, and who we listen to.
He’s telling Ethel’s story.
I know some of my relatives were sent from Greenwich workhouse to Canada - they didn't even keep a 5 &7 yr children together. What I am surprised is that they can trace thru the workhouse - we had been told that the books were closed.
Brian Cox is one of my favorite actors and I felt his pain at the knowledge of what his forebears went through. I spent 15 years in orphanages, some of a dubious reputation. I would have gotten a shorter sentence for murder.
Sorry you had to go through that. Hope life’s treating you well now
Tragic. Children always suffer the worst. Look at cases of paedophilia and child abuse now - sentences are pathetic
Brian is seriously pissed off bless him.
Bad Dog: I hope things r better for you know.Salud!
I wonder how many men said that they were not the father and had their wives shamed and thrown out of the house but were the father
Wow that distinction of the 'innocent poor' and 'idle poor' still rings so true today in Australia, Centrelink benefits were only increased when a lot of people lost their jobs due to Covid. Suddenly a whole class of 'innocent poor' were struggling to survive on government benefits and it became problematic that the money was not enough, so the Centrelink unemployment benefit was raised to accommodate those 'innocent poor'. No thought to the 'idle poor' who have been struggling to make ends meet on government benefits that leave them far below the living wage for years
Yeah it's absolutely insane. Makes no sense....same thing in Canada.
Happened here in the UK too. As soon as lockdown started, benefits were raised by £20 a week because people who'd never had to accept benefits before were realising it wasn't enough to live on... 2 years later and inflation has gone up, but that £20 has now been taken off again, so people are are having to choose between heating and eating.
The Victorians had a sick, twisted view upon humans.
Many people share this view today, scornful of the NHS and Council services. I suppose most of those people would be in the workhouse themselves without the welfare state
We're honestly not much better now, just better at hiding the abuses on the working class from the middle and upper classes.
Classes are not THAT profound anymore.
@@Ujuani68 Classes are more profoundly different than ever. lmao we have a billionare space race...
Methinks the problem is idealism.
I find it sad how some of these kids were separated from their parents, and in some cases even from their siblings (like the lady who wanted to adopt her little sister, but never even got to see her again), and sent to far-off countries to start new lives. Sending the kids to Australia and Canada reminds me a bit of the Orphan Train kids in the US, who were sent from places like Boston and New York City to live with families out west. In all these situations, these long-distance migrations had the potential to be mixed blessings for the kids. Some children were true orphans, while others had one or both parents still living, who gave them up for adoption so that they could have a chance for a better life, and some were even forcibly removed from parents who were deemed unfit (whether the parents actually were unfit or not.) Some children wound up in loving homes with people who actually wanted a child to love, while others just wanted free farm labor and took advantage of these new members of their household. However, even for the kids who had no memories of their biological parents and had a good upbringing by their foster/adoptive parents, being sent so far away from their point of origin obviously had to have life-long psychological effects to some degree!
there is actually sad point in this. In my country every mother is paid for first 1,5 year after having baby a wage. There was a case where a female was having babies every 1,5 years and giving baby away to governement care. If that is not worse enough after one of the older girl found a family who was interested of girl mom showed up, started to mess up childs mind and made her steal from the family.... so there are different stories. Also if you take account that many these families might have 6-8 children it is for sure no one would adopt 6 children all together so seperating them, there was bigger change. Sad in it self removing your brothers and sisters but sometimes you have to do what you have to do.
What you speak about with forced labor from "adopted children" is actually the leading form of slavery today, after sex slavery ofc. It happens in desperate times in places like Afghanistan bc of the famine but it sadly happens everywhere. :( So be aware and help to fight it!
I guess a they rationalised it: demand for labour and "chance of a new life". A win-win. Obviously places willing to take unwanted children never have good intentions
LOVE (actor) Brian Cox's reactions and HIS brutal honesty in this series!
what a great documentary. Brian Cox had me tearing up when he realized his great grandfather got to meet his granddaughter, his mother, after separating from his boys. Beautifully done, thank y'all!
My family didn't emigrate to the US until after WW2 and my ancestors, that we know of, have always lived in poverty. Just knowing that some of my relatives may have been born or forced to work in a workhouse is very depressing and I'm very glad this system has been dismantled.
Today they on welfare instead. Big improvement?
@@Santor- Yes it is. The one actors relative was disabled and just left to fend for himself. That is cruel and inhumane.
My father was sent to the orphanage by his mother he was 12 they lived in New York the orphanage sent him to a work farm to live those people were so cruel to him and others the state paid these people for keeping the children it was a nightmare my father said he's long passed now
Communities should help the ENTIRE family NOT just the children. Family Preservation is the most important thing.
I remember my late grandad, refusing to visit me and his first great grandchild, in the old 'City Home' in Limerick City, it was a lovely post natal hospital, we were moved from the maternity hospital, Saint Munchins Regional Maternity. I never knew, it was the old workhouse! My late mum hated it too and shuddered EVERY time she walked through the door!!! Horrible thoughts, horrible memories 😢 😞 😔
This was such a heartbreaking episode, I could barely stand it! Mr. Cox was so afflicted by his families past, and in the end he was so happy to see the his great grandfather was able to meet his
2 year old mother. I have seen other stories that really made it out to be a horrible thing, sending improvrished british children to Australia. This story seems like it helped kids. Even tho, it would have been better if the laws where thrown out completely, againist the impoverished. I don't need to get started or I will not stop, and you guys don't want that, trust me. 🙊💚👩🏻🦰😋
We sent impoverished kids and orphans from the east coast to farms in the Midwest. They were known as "Orphan Trains". Some were treated well while others were treated as slaves. There was a TV film based on this several years ago.
Ikr!! Especially 32:00
This has to be one of the most painful stories I've ever listened to. Babies taken away from their mothers.... I would die 😭💔 the sin was solely taken by the woman 🤬🤬🤬 like America today. It's disgusting!!
Didn't those childcare oranizations get a fee for each child they sent overseas to the colonies from the adoptive parents?
And weren t those children often used as unpaid maids, workers, farmhands at very young ages?
And didn't these children often were made to pay back the initial fees for them, by having to work for their adoptive parents even after they had grown up?
So sickening
15:47 That "model of childhood innocence" was Victorian, actually. That children were pure of soul, like some pastoral romance, only to be corrupted in adulthood. Tiger and the lamb from early romanticism.
Lots of fascination with childhood death and purity. Peter Pan was meant to be a response to all that, saying that children *aren't* angels, and can be cruel and really quite self-absorbed, but also imaginative and intelligent.
Absolute History bless u for all these documentaries
funny they never mentioned mary was maby fired because she was pregnant from her boss
So many women in vulnerable positions, which was the widespread of society in most cases, were seen as, and fell prey to predatory men.
....that makes the most sense. And because of this she lost her safety, and her baby Albert. How vile...for a 10 minute act.
I can't help but think of Mrs. Jenkins and little Rosie from the 2012 Christmas special of Call the Midwife. As an American, I knew little to nothing of workhouses before a year ago when I started watching Call the Midwife. This is both fascinating and tragic.
Thanks for the recommendation. I’m going to check it out : )
Oh gosh, me too! When I saw Bradford and the historian reading the old record books, I saw Nurse Jenny Lee from Call the Midwife reading about Rosie. So sad. The story of Mrs. Jenkins has always stood out in my mind among my favorite episodes.
@@unhiddenhistory if you find the time, pick up the books. Mrs. Jenkins really gets her whole story told and it's even more tragic than TV could portray. But in a way I felt like reading it, no matter how difficult, was keeping that memory of her hardships and struggle and survival alive. She was likely a real person and because of Jenny Lee her and her children are more than just names in an old book. They're real people with a real story, not forgotten.
@@Darkflowerchyld718 I have all the books, and they were really good.
That episode made me cry the most. I am currently in season 4 but that has been the saddest episode so far for me.
It's amazing how horrible things were back then. How can you treat a fellow human being like that?
Simple. Be treated that way your entire life, and know no other way. Empathy, childhood, and feeling your emotions were not explored. They were shunned. A part of empathy is saying I wouldn’t want that to happen to me, therefore I don’t want it to happen to anyone else. They didn’t have that.
Honestly the big picture offers the knowledge that no matter what generation you are from or century life was hard for many people. Heartbreaking,sad, and extremely hard on people going through rough times. Humans are resilient and fighters even when your stuck between a rock and a hard place.
This world demands way too much of a person to get out of poverty. This IS SUCH A SHAME 😔🙏
Perfect example of a system that failed the people again. A system that has no compassion. A world that suffered a broken home and a broken heart due to a greedy financial system.
And now here we are where the single mother is expected to work and look after the child? The more things change, the more they stay the same!
Don't have a kid if you can't afford it then. Why should other people pay for other people's kids? Hit up the father for child support or don't get pregnant by losers.
@@Durka-Durka I was engaged, new home, new job until he cheated, I found out and he literally kicked me out on the streets 5 months pregnant, didn't see the monster until that day. Ive remained single for 5 years to raise my daughter who is thriving, and the only way I've managed to work full time is working at a school with half terms off. He pays no maintenance via cms as he is a good liar and never sees her. It's the parent who doesn't bother who is the wrong here. Don't spew that mouth or judge unless you've gone through it yourself or can use whatever brain cells you have left to start to understand it's not just that black and white.
@@al2954 So what's stopping you from collecting child support payments?
@@al2954 If only people would wait until getting married before having kids so many problems would be avoided. You got pregnant before you even really knew who he was. I hope you get child support from him. Good luck. Believe me I know people make mistakes. I've had to learn lots the hard way myself.
@@Durka-Durka I'm with cms but they are useless. I also have zero contact with him. But I wouldn't change my daughter she's the best thing I've ever done, she makes me get out of bed in the morning and makes me want to achieve. I work hard for us both, we don't need a man to do that for us, I am the man and I am the woman. when she was born I wasn't in a job but I studied and made sure I had a job to fit around her. she's growing up to be a valuable member of society, and I wouldn't change a thing. Yes it would be nice to be married.. Have a happy ending.. but we live in peace, no arguments, if we don't have as much money as some it doesn't matter, as we are happy and appreciate the little things. You make your own happiness, never rely on anyone else and keep your true loved ones close. Apologies for going off but In my case, I'm not one of those single mom's that has kids for the benefits, or screams at the kids as they see them as a burden. Some single mom's get into a situation where they really try hard, and what should they do, get rid of the child because there's no father or less money? It's not the child's fault, they are the innocent ones here and I only wish that parents who know they won't care didn't have kids. Plenty of kids born into a married family who are not loved.
Sadly there are still people in the UK who think workhouses should return. It's disgusting.
Those people are ridiculous for thinking that. Those people definitely have mental issues.
Whats the supposed benefit of reintroducing the workhouse?
Aye,the Tories😂
To be honest I think a lot of these illegitemate children were the result of rape rather than love afairs. Though perhaps quite a few ladies would have also sold their «favours» as well in their desperate states, or received «offers that cannot be refused» from wealthier men.
All true. And in the desperate state most men and women lived, just a little affection between them was a temporary ray of light in their bleak lives....
Yes, that was the reality for far too many people, and it's well within living memory. A common phrase heard often from my mother, when I mithered her for sweets, was, "We'll end up in the workhouse if I have to keep giving you money for sweets!" No, it wasn't a "privileged" society for most working class people (who made up the majority of society)!
Poverty as a crime? Holy cow ..that is just terrible
We must remember that great atrocities occured in the workhouses as well as in daily lives of cast off women. I find it peculiar that a woman with 10 children and a husband to cook, clean and provide all wifely and mothering care for, had time and energy for an affair. Frankly l do not think she did. In tracing my genealogy l have found terrible things men have caused to happen to their women - wife or children.
OH HOW WRONG YOUR ARE. HAHAHA !!! A WOMAN WHO DOES NOT HAVE TIME TO CHEAT ON HER HUSBAND WILL FIND A WAY TO ADD AN EXTRA HOUR TO THE 24-HOUR DAY.
@@mikee5507 You got issues man
@@trashpanda2094 YES, ANYBODY THAT DOES NOT AGREE WITH YOUR WAY OF THINKING HAS ISSUES.
@@mikee5507 yep
@@mikee5507 you really need to get a life. Clearly you are a woman hater.
Well £36 at that time would have been about £4000 today, not everyone has that kind of money sadly.
A lot of them claiming the women were just having illegitimate children never considered the option of rape? I mean these women were vulnerable.
"To keep it from being an easy option it was designed to be a place people dreaded."
...Why not just let there be an easy option? People should be able to feed their families without being tortured for it.
I think the idea was to empower to work and not relent on others. There are alot of able-bodied adults who refuse to work now. They complain because the government won't give them more benefits. It wouldn't hurt those to have experience a more humane workhouse.
@@mariahmangram1621 It still just seems so barbaric from my modern lens. The quote still makes me feel bad to think about the blatant cruelty behind it.