What Was Life Like Inside Victorian England's Worst Prison? | Women Behind Bars | Absolute History
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- Опубліковано 21 лют 2022
- This documentary investigates the story behind HM Prison Holloway, from its beginnings 165 years ago. It recounts the criminal history of its most infamous and prolific female inmates.
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LAURIE VALDEZ 🇺🇲☦️🪖
I always cringe a bit, when Ruth Ellis and Myra Hindley are mentioned in the same breath - Ruth fought back against her abuser, against domestic violence and emotional abuse, while Hindley was plain evil
One of my mother’s school friends was a Hindley victim. Even if she hadn’t been, couldn’t agree more with this comment ❤
Ellis was hung for fighting back against her abuser while hyndley murdered innocent children was allowed Togo on living. That's "justice"for you
Ruth Ellis murder was premeditated. Not some spur of the moment thought She was, a cold blooded killer. We sometimes look back with rose tinted glasses. But she does not deserve our sympathy.
@@michaelharrison3602 although I don't think Ellis should have received the death penalty, the only reason Hayden wasnt put to death was because the Murder Act of 1965 had abolished the death penalty in the UK.
It doesnt sit well with me either. I read a book aboit Ruth Ellis and she was a victim of DV and she had a small child and she fought back and got hung for it. Myra Hindley was kne of the devil's representatives on earth who killed chidlren for kicks with her sick, evil bf and didnt swing its so wrong. Myra Hindley wasnt sorry. Sorry for herself maybe how could she look at little Keiths mother all those years, clutching his glasses begging to know where he is and that stone hearted thing didnt tell her. How could you do that to somebody? She was evil, pure evil.
I was hoping for a video about what life was like for prisoners in Holloway in Victorian times. The title is misleading.
Idk I feel like noone would really know unless they worked there or was a prisoner or had evidency/documents to go by . maybe they didn't have enough to make a video on. I agree the title is miss leading.
Thanks, won’t waste my time.
AGREE!!!
Totally misleading
Yeah the title is misleading but the video I watched all the way through and was still interesting
People need remember that most people in prison will be released. The question is do we want them leaving better or worse
I met a Swedish prison guard who was all about helping inmates reintegrate into society. He was quite passionate about describing what he was doing
I have seen a documentary about Swedish Prisons. Very different to most prisons in the world.
Tell us about the ethnicity of the inmates and success rates by ethnicity.
@@nosotrosloslobosestamosreg4115 The rate of recidivism is MUCH lower in Sweden than in the US, and that's all that matters.
@@nosotrosloslobosestamosreg4115 Decent question - very USA valid. But I s'pose it's valid around the world. But this guy really impressed me. Prison guards are usually not the most pleasant. This guy was really into his job.
@@jazzmin6665 again, by ethnicity.
Myra Hindley and rehab couldn’t be further apart
What those 2 Baby Farmers did wasnt any different than what the Catholic church did in their orphanages & "homes for girls"! 😒
Different than the abortion trade today? 😢
@@XassawYes VERY different.!! Today , women can DECIDE what to do WITH THEIR OWN BODIES, Whether or not that's an abortion. No woman does that without great thought, and distress. Still the choice is HERS, not people like yours!!
They don't EVER deserve to have the uncalled for, unwarranted opinion of others , SUCH AS YOU inflicted upon them. Basically, mind your own business, about others' actions that have NOTHING to do with you. No woman should be forced to carry a pregnancy to term, if that's not her choice. Women are NOT human incubators
This is great. Thankyou absolute history!
Why call them “ok men” ? Do “good men” no longer exist in Britain?
Excellent, excellent documentary. Thank you.
I served a few weeks in Holloway in 2001 as a 17 year old an trust me when I say you feel the evil in the place walking the corridor that Myra hindley N rose West walked gave me the creeps
Me too- horrendous place, dreadful " dark place
I was on level 3 when I went in (H1 then D1 for the first week or so). I didn't think it was too bad in there. It was okay. It was only after sentencing that I was moved up to the 4's. Two weeks later they shipped me out to Downview. And for my final year, I was moved to East Sutton Park near Maidstone. Retrospectively, I could say I loved it there. Lol. 😅
@@steenystuff1075 What did you go in for?
@@toastservant9542
Selling drugs to Met police. Lol.
@@toastservant9542
But at least my two years inside got me clean and thus my life back. I actually phoned the old bill and thanked, them for arresting me as I reckon I'd have died had they not done so. I was 6st 4lbs when the arrested me.
Very interesting video! Thanks for uploading!
closing statement from Kate Williams at the end of this. NO we have not moved on that much from the Victorian era, we make people feel like criminals for asking for help, being disabled, sick or victims. So no we REALLY REALLY have not moved forward.
It is in some aspects even worse. In the end itall about control and toning down people from having a mind of their own. Then with the sufragettes and today again with women who speak out.
I have just replaced the old one
Ditto
Great documentary 👏🏾
A fascinating presentation, especially the Victorian & Edwardian era crimes. The Suffragettes were incredible women.
Thank you.
Social history always gives lots of food for thought.
Then to Australia and Tasmania. You know they're the same place right?
As an American, I feel that our prisons are far closer to the Victorian Prisons, especially in mentality toward prisoners. I wish we could have prison reform like they describe here as happening in the 1960's.
Crock of crap... they did the crimes with NO 2nd thoughts, so they can pay the penalty... 🙄🙄🙄
@@nunyadambusiness6902 That mentality proves my point.
@Robynhoodlum which mentality? The one where I have NO sympathy for a murderer or worse? Did they have any sympathy for their victims?!?
It's 1 thing if it was a simple crime & they aren't a lifetime criminal. It's quite another to take someone with a rap sheet 7 pages long & give him a slap on the wrist & then turn him loose AGAIN, just cuz you're worried about his hurt wittle fweelings... Gimme a damn break... 🙄🤦♂️🙄...
That's like saying "a criminal will respect a gun-free zone & commit no crimes there..." If he knows no one is going to shoot him in the face, do you think he'll be scared at all?... Or do you think he'll feel safe & get bold?
How many times have you seen someone put back on the street & they turn right around & murder someone (or a whole family) AGAIN?
Quit trying to save people who CLEARLY don't give 2 fks if they hurt or killed someone... It's called ACCOUNTABILITY, ffs... Has nothing to do with "my mentality" - it's common sense... 🙄🙄🙄
I used to teach at a State prison. I was very impressed with the efforts to educate those who wished it.
One of my relatives was meant to have been in Holloway for allegedly killing her baby and taking money from men. This was about a hundred years ago but unfortunately my dad can't find any information about her.
Have you tried the Parish records for the area your relative lived? Often lots of information in them
@@worldgonemad1977 my dad's done a lot of our family history and even tried to contact Holloway prison but they have no records
Thank you ladies and gentlemen
What are these talking about. Prisons today don't focus on rehabilitation either
Myra Hindlay gives me the creeps
😂
40:14 It is nice to see someone actually discussing these issues. Some women need help, rehabilitation, drug rehab or mental health issues need to be addressed. Prison won't help them and they will return back in no time. Addressing the route issues is best.
The title was misleading however it was very interesting
I truly don't understand the focus on rehabilitating murderers, so that they can live a life they deprived someone else of.
why is david wilson in every insert/subtitle "professor david wilson", whereas kate williams, elisabeth yardley and vicky pryce (all of them i.a. professors) are - in this documentary/ inserts - being denied their academic titles?
Sad, but true reality.
@@Uapa500 it could be what they prefer to be known as.
I love David.
Misleading title
"sending them to Australia and Tasmania". Pardon what? Where exactly do you think Tasmania is?
As far away as England could poke a stick. Unfortunately
In Victorian times was Tasmania still known as Van Demons land?
@@craftykez I hope that was intended to be a joke. Van Diemen's land was not supposed to be full of ghosts, goblins and demons. Even though at Port Arthur there are a few ghosts today.
@@craftykez I mean kind of? It was renamed in that era, but Australia itself didn't actually technically exist until 1901, and before Van Diemen's Land was renamed in 1856, it was actually part of NSW.
I was mostly just joking about how we're either completely forgotten on maps or treated as a separate entity though.
In 1856 to 1901 it was a British colony. It wasn't until Jan 1 1901 that it became the Australian state of Tasmania.
as an ex-con i did prison the hard way with 23 hr. dub up, no kettle just a cup of tea at the end of the evening, 2 showers a week..not a guarantee, usually a sink wash, no stereo and certainly no playstation. jail nowadays in the 🇬🇧 is nothing more than a holiday camp. borstal or detention centre as it was known in 🏴 should be brought back for the little sawdust gangsters (14-20 year olds) and as for the adults we should take a leaf 🍃 or 2 out of the 🇺🇸 system both in rules and prison sentencing because jail is nothing more than a revolving door for at least 80% of people.
Did they have field trips, camp fires, weenie roasts and sing alongs????
the code doesn't work anymore :(
What does a decline of 400% mean? (See 21:56.) A decline of 100% means that the prison population goes to zero. A decline can't be greater than 100%.
It said daily population. Maybe meant like: A year ago every day 100 people came, now every day 300 leave. So that the total population is declining?
I THINK they mean the decline is 4 times what it was before.
24:19 haha 🤣😆🤣 I bet my MIL would want to do this as well.
I am forever grateful for the suffragettes, they didn't deserve to be in prison, even those who resorted to things like vandalism because obviously, it was necessary to move society forward.
Yeah coz women are such angels
@@johnlaslett5339 Maybe not angels, but certainly should be equal members of society to men. Wouldn't you agree?
@@theparanoidandroid3583 of course. Men are no worse or better. Liars cheats sex offenders etc come from both genders. I just get so annoyed when I see posts on social media directing that stuff towards men. My abuser was female. I think it's sad and pathetic that we live in a world where a man hits his gf/wife, he's a monster but when a woman hits her fella, it's acceptable. It's wrong on both sides. I am all for diversity and I'm very anti bigotry but these toxic feminists that demonise men disgust me. I got called a (can't spell it) masoginist because I offered my seat on the bus to a woman.
@@theparanoidandroid3583 I'm sorry for any upset I may have caused
@@johnlaslett5339 Don't worry, I understand where you're coming from. I certainly hear enough of it from my brother! I am sorry to hear about your experience and I agree that everyone should be listened to and treated equally. Some modern feminists are misguided in my view because they can come across as unwilling to listen if you don't agree in every particular. I reacted to your comment because the OP was talking about the suffragettes, who were fighting for fundamental civil rights, rather than the very different debates being had today by feminists (and indeed most of society). I hope you have supportive people around you today.
Ah yes Australia and Tasmania because we all know Tasmania is a separate country lol
Well if you think about the use of mentioning both locations in a historical context, prisoners were sent to 2 different places in the "penal colony". Notable convict colonies in Australia were: New South Wales (1788-1840) and Van Diemen's Land (later Tasmania, 1803-1853). It's important to understand the context.
Aussies think so, too ;)
It seems like a lot of foreigners don't realise Tasmania is a state of Australia.
From 1856 to 1901 it was a British colony. It wasn't until Jan 1 1901 that is became the Australian state of Tasmania.
@@ursulacomardi6787 all States were British Colonies until 1901 not just Tassie
42:24 she is efficient and eloquent and smart
I don't know which of the following would have been worse for women back then: 1. A woman's prison where you are subjected to extreme isolation while being punished in the same manner a lot of slave owners did back then to their slave owners too. 2. Being promised in marriage at age 8 to a cerebral covert narcissistic professor who teaches classes in phrenology when he is not profiting a lot by offering his expertise to juries too.
So nice to see Mira lived a full life!!
Good morning everyone
Good morning, "Cleverfitz".
beautiful!like being in ibiza!i just love victorian prisons!reach for the stars why don't you?
Misleading title ..but interesting thank you
‘Australia and Tasmania’ Dude. Really ? 🤦🏻♀️
No issue. Two separate places describing pre 1901
This is a fantastic documentary. Shame to hear someone consider depression a minor mental health disorder (though I appreciate the value of everyone's opinions being their own and free to be given)
On the scale of things, most cases of depression are mild to moderate. The person can usually function as a member of society, albeit with maybe some deviance. Compared with other disorders where the grasp of reality is severely altered, potentially where it creates danger, and lucidity not always easy to come by. Major depressive disorder is less common
@@MsJubjubbird I agree, if not for quite the same reasons. Depression is treatable and curable. Many other mental health disorders are not curable, others not treatable, some neither but also, on a scale of preference, depression or psychopathy?
@@deja-view1017 depression can often manifest after left events. Teaching coping strategies and changing the situation as best you can, can assist. Hallucinations and such are different and they don't always know the cause
Sad 😢 story but it happened.
Yea I'm at
They just don't build them like they used to. HAPPY Halloween!!! Philadelphia USA
Just Commenting for the algorithm 😃
Treat people as grown ups legalize all drugs apart from injecting try to stop that, tax drugs and use some tax earned for rehab and education empty the prisons for who really needs to be there concentrate on rehabilitation for most the war on drugs costs to much and doesn't work. Common sense the taxes raised would be a fortune and help the country's gdp
Baby Farming comes up in Gilbert and Sullivan (H.M.S. Pinnifore), I didn't know it was a real thing!
How about the early warning signs being recognised and intervening then... Education and mental/medical support before they start committing crimes.
Psychology has pin pointed on many occasions the early behaviours that can become destructive and lead to crime. Also the education system is far from helpful. So many get counted as disruptive or unintelligent when in reality they just don't find being made to sit for hours on end to get there education.
More needs to be don't before crime happens. As they say "prevention is better than the cure"
Fucking hell is gonna be a busy place
8:58 “to Australia and Tasmania.” That like saying “to the USA and New York.” Tasmania _is_ part of Australia.
That's like saying. The USA. and Alaska.
Can anyone tell me the name of the interviewer?
I'll sign up just to hear your accent 😍👍
Actually I would risley
@JessicaKent
I have a massive crush on Dr. Elizabeth Yardley 😍 she's got such a nice brain
I was a co at a women's prison, I remember the lady that drowned her kids would like play hacky sack in the yard.
The suffragettes were badass! Thank you ladies 👏👏👏
Nope
'Absolute critical history' I think would be more appropriate. I came for far more facts, photos accounts and constructive representation of Holloway in the Victorian era, than what was provided here in 40 minutes. There was little detail of the 'infamous and prolific' characters and a gentle brush over of the prisons timeline. Then a group of peoples thoughts and criticisms of prison and public policy, which frankly I dont care about. Not too impressed really.
Pridon just teaches them to commit more crimes.
Holloway yip
How did hanging end after these women. it seems suspicious that he convicted them in 40 minutes.. so I have a feeling that it was found out they were wrongly convicted and they felt so bad that they stopped hanging women
Prison is bad,people are cruel, thanks for your story
Don't worry about it. Just go back to good old-fashioned Ancient Roman justice.
You forget about the brutality of the warders and cruelty afflicted on woman the warders were very brutal,
Incorrect. They didn't send convict to the US. Whe fought to be separated from the UK. So sending the UK prisoners wouldn't be accepted. They went to Australia. Unless you mean the black and irish as slaves.
im only 8 minutes in but i had to pause to say all these 900+ swear words for baby murderers rot in hell in the most excruciating circumstances for the end of time its disgusting i cant even shout for more than 3 seconds at my kids when they climb on the dining room table and try to grab the bug zapper... and i was nearly expelled from school for holding another kid hostage with a pair of scissors.
Yea we have come a long way lol it’s not even close
Revolving door incarceration
systematic murderous..deported to continue
Yes, because Tasmania is a separate country from Australia.....???
it is when you talk about sending people at that time, pre 1901
La did da
Being reintroduced to the UK by Priti Patel in 2023 for anyone who protests too noisily.
I was molested at 5 and 12 and I didn't turn out like these women, excuses, excuses 😤...just sick of people using other people's actions as a excuse to do what they have chosen to do
That is a bit like saying " I fell out of a tree when I was a kid and did not break my arm, therefore any kid who falls out of a tree will not break their arm" Everyone's situations are different, as is how they handle/process what happens to them. No one is saying it is an excuse for what they do, but it is an explanation of why.
-Australia AND Tasmania ha ha didnt know Tasmania was a country!!!!!
Well, they are two different islands.
Tasmania isn't a part of Australia.. its a piece of the moon that crash landed millions ago. 😂😂
it was back then.
"Men got off scot free." Uh... No, they didn't? Infanticide wasn't just charged to women, men were arrested for it to? Well that's as far as I need to go with this one.
It's referring more to the fact that poor women especially were expected socially and by law to be the sole providers for their children if born out of wedlock. Men often got away with abandoning their families as they were not held legally responsible most times
P
👍👏👍👏👍
We haven’t changed that much since the Victorian period!? Haha, what period are YOU living in?
A way to get people to stay out of prison. Send them to a setting where they are forced to listen to the narcissist David Wilson.
I can't think of a logical reason for the Death Penalty.
One thing I don't understand is what a person's appearance has to do with whether they or not they are criminal types
There is a huge proportion of women who are in prison because they refuse to give up their boyfriend of husband. There is a huge proportion of women in prison for petty, non-violent crime. There are lots of disabled and neurodivergent/mentally ill women in prison. If we just gave poor people social programs and money, and gave drug users actual treatment, and gave people mental healthcare, we could prevent a lot of trauma that comes with incarceration and improve these people’s lives by giving them a fair chance. Not the mention that it costs less to feed and house someone on the outside.
No way do I actually get to be the first comment on a UA-cam video 😳😃
Haha, welp, I can die happy now.
the only comment i make is...No Comment.🤪
The reason there are a lot less women prisons than men is because the law is a lot more lenient on women for many different reasons like children ect
even if that were true it wouldn’t cause such an enormous difference.
Remember, prisons aren't meant to be Disneyland. Don't do the crime, if you can't do the time.
NOSTROVIA ☦️😢
Crimes and morals are two different things. This is how dumb you sound…Don’t be Jewish in the 1940’s if you don’t want to do the time.
please rate the last edit ☺️
No.
So many inconsistencies with this. You didn't get a subscribe or a like off me
This video is NOT about what it says in the title, so I'm not going to waste my time watching it any further.
LOL This otherwise informative pop-u-mentary creaks under the unchallenged vocabulary of politically-corrected ideology (e.g. women as the perceived victims of female crimes, 'Victorian' is almost identified with brute force and repression, chiefly of women; I could go on, but you get the picture). An enjoyable holiday-snapshot slide-show kind of yomp through a very interesting period of history, but useful only in showing how not to do 'proper' history (you know, balanced, without too much diatribe, and, critically, focused more on dealing with facts rather than feelings) ..
Strange death penalty is banned but abortion completely acceptable
are you serious
I don’t disagree with the courts charging that women with the murder of her husband as well, she manipulated the much younger man into thinking he had no choice but to save her from her misery. This is a common method that narcissistic women use to get men to do there bidding. It would be interesting to here the view of the young man at that time.
Also if a man would have manipulated a much younger woman in that way, nobody would have had any sympathy for him if it ended in his wife being murdered. I hate the bias woman are the most manipulative sex hands down and I’m a woman myself. So I have seen it first hand
And yet the Suferagettes never picked up the rifle and trenched.
However they did volunteer for many roles in the wars ( factories, intelligence, aircraft, naval operations etc etc.) which also included sitting next to a brutally battered young soldier dying, sitting with them as they took their last breath-they also were taking care of soldiers wounded in ways nobody had ever seen before because world wars were nothing like any other war because of the industrial revolution. These were the blooodiest wars anyone had ever seen. And they volunteered. Don’t come here acting like women fought for rights and were meak and happy to then skip home to their kitchen. Ya ninny. Pick up a history book.
@@meecymousymice i love that somehow the sufragette was the victim in the scenario were the soldier took his last breath. But you know women are the primary victims of was. Pick up a rifle.
Additionally if women all hit the trenches with the men-let’s think for a moment. Every man of age between what 17 and 45 was in the war? Give it take. So let’s say women were even ever allowed to fight. Who would run all those factories? take care of the kids? Take care of the wounded? Keep the country which is at war running so the men had a country to come home too? What would happen if every woman and man from 17 to 45 was gone and killed by the millions? Meanwhile the enemy forces are storming the streets killing all the children and elderly. Cities captured in no time. Sounds like a good strategy, bro
Also look up women in wars globally.
Ok I’m done.
@@meecymousymice you were done from the word go. You just made urself a laughing stock. Cope more Marie.
Men wouldn’t be able to go to war if women didn’t stay home and do everything men once did. So all those jobs women couldn’t do before they were now being asked to do. If everyone picked up a rifle then who would be in the country? Don’t think too hard and hurt yourself sweetheart.
Wimminz, wimminz, wimminz. Yawn.
Found the incel
Idk what you expected to hear about in a documentary about female offenders buddy
I can tell you find spelling hard from your comment but if you even can did you read the title?
5:47 "Women did often try and kill their children. There were babies thrown into the Thames, strangled. And men got off scott free"
Is she suggesting that men should get punished when women kill their (as in both parents') child?
Btw, women trying to implicate that men's life was a walk in the park in these times should really consider that almost everyone had a Very rough life in those days.
That threw me, like wtf
Men in society are seen higher and stronger then women
Don’t forget that other countries had doors for whites and coloured where here we had doors saying men and then one for women, women where the worst of society if she was pregnant before marriage
Even in the 60’s women had to have a letter from their husbands with permission to even open a post office account
Not justifying anything, women where classed lower then men back then
Yes, most people had a rough life back then, no doubt. However, the fact that women are physically much weaker than men AND cursed with the ability to become pregnant, put them in a much worse spot than men.
Yes that's true but unfortunately women in those times who became impregnated with a bastard child were outcast by society.
It's more referring to the victorian law that men were not financially or socially responsible for fathering an illegitimate child. The mother was often abandoned or left to raise the child alone and this was acceptable
If you don’t understand the implications then I am genuinely terrified for the state of the world, still, and genuinely concerned for your ability to comprehend. Unless you’re pissed off and actively trying to gaslight, which would actually be better and would let us know that at least you understand it, the only other option is too chilling. Please please say you are actively trying to gaslight it is absolutely the better option.
So much feminist claptrap. We had higher standards back then which all where expected to stick to.
So it’s called murder if they do seconds after it’s born. I get it now.
Yes, becouse after it's born, we talk about human. Before - about fetus
@@nielubieinceli lol . What helps you sleep at night.
it’s murder to kill a baby. abortion doesn’t involve killing a baby, it’s a few cells that can’t even feel anything. that’s COMPLETELY different than a baby.