UNDERSTANDING ARCCOS DATA PART 1 // WITH LOU STAGNER
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- Опубліковано 9 сер 2023
- Today Ian and Mikey start a new series called Understanding Arccos.
Starting with a deep dive into Ian's analytics, Arccos stat expert Lou Stagner crunches the numbers to reveal what he believes is holding Ian's game back.
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Review/editing post round is what I find the most valuable - helps replay the round with a cold head and analyze decisions made.
I do the exact same thing and actually really enjoy doing it!!
It's pretty cool breaking down all the data with nice graphics. Looking at your greens stats like you're an F1 mechanic 😂. Maybe not quite but it's fun seeing where you can make big gains or marginal gains.
Like the concept, but the yearly fee, for our 4-5 months period of game, is quite expensive… this is MY deal breaker…
Subscription based products in general piss me off. Way too many companies are switching to subscription based services for their products because it makes them a shit ton of money and consumers are too stupid to say no.
If I'm going to buy something, I want to own it.
@@CrispyGFX”You’ll own nothing and be happy.”
@@CrispyGFXalso the main reason for subscription services are the constant updates. Arccos updates it’s maps all the time and has to hold onto all your data you want to keep.
Could try shotscope. No ongoing fee
@@MichaelCarpenter-gu1bf 41$ a month?? I paid 200 Australian for the year.
Love this...thank you gents. Went into some areas Arccos that I had not looked at before. Moreover, how Lou was explaining things was enlightening. Looking forward to the additional content.
Great video, I have been using Arccos for years now, ever since they were originally sold in Apple stores.
I now have over 18k shots recorded and find the post round analysis super helpful and informative.
Can’t wait for the next video…..keep it going guys
What a great video! As an (newish) Arccos user, I learned a lot! Time to take it to the practice ground and ultimately the course!
Amazing! Thanks for the video. I have used Arccos for awhile now. This will have guide me on where to put in practice.
I absolutely needed this! Thanks for the video!
For folks perspective....I went from a 30HCP to a 10 after enrolling Arccos system (1 year). The information it gave me from my game over the course of a few rounds showed a pattern.
#1 Issue was off the tee, I was taking way too many penalty strokes due to poor driving. I also was having to do these longer than expected approach shots. This means I needed to work on the driver and other tee clubs to give my self the best chance to GIR. That has been fixed 99% and I still have some kinks to work thru on my swing but overall I am more consistent where I put my shot.
#2 Approach game not hitting GIR was costing 2-3 strokes PER hole which then feeds into the wedge & putting game. Not hitting greens and always chipping afterward or just having poor contact started to train my mind to pay attention to the swing & contact. While i still have some GIR issues my approach game is far better than it was 2 years ago. Now it has become more about "I need to get within 10 feet of the pin and not just GIR"
#3 Wedge game - 75 yds and in (including bunkers) this is where a MAJORITY of my strokes were lost because I constantly left em short, duffed, skulled, thin, picked wrong club for distance/shot. Yes this is mainly due to technique and swing changes, but Arccos provided more data to me in terms of club selection, distance left to hole after chip.
#4 Putting - this one was the absolute worse of my game. Constantly 3-5 putting per hole just ruined my score and made me frustrated, but I never understood where I needed to spend more time practicing on with putting. Was it pace control? Was it a certain distance? Was it green reading? Arccos captured all of that data for me and showed me where my putting hurt me the most. Right now my biggest issue putting is inside 6 feet which is my big miss. I know they are tap ins, but strength wise I like a firm putt. Within 6 feet I tap it and the break just takes more than expected, so Arcoss keeps hammering home "You need to work on these mre....your Make % is less than what is expected" As a result I am missing 1/4 instead of 4/4 inside 6 feet.
Now what I laid out you can say "You could just pay attention closer to your game instead of relying on a system to tell you what you need to work on." You are right I could, but when it comes to competitive and getting better at your game you need something to aim for. Getting better for the sake of getting better is fine but if you do not have a target to aim for then you are not going to getter better faster. Data tells you where you need to improve, and where you are good. Data driven results help keep you competitive and chasing your goals.
I shot my first score under 80 this year (76), and it was a culmination of all the practice while taking in data from Arccos. Right now I am going thru swing mechanic polishing and grip changes to polish my swing, and I am losing strokes by lost balls. However, I am NOT playing terribly and when I go to harder courses and faster greens I am able to play them with confidence. I use to be intimidated by these higher end courses "I can't play here...I am not that good. I am going to lose so many balls and waste my money here. I don't deserve to play here." Now I sign up and go "I cannot get better if I do not challenge my self on these courses or greens. I need to practice at harder courses to polish my skill."
As a result I have started to show up to tee times 1-2 hrs in advance and practice on putting, chipping, bunker plays. 45 minutes before the round I get to the range and warm up the swing fully. This has produced great results and on some of the fastest greens I have ever played. Now instead of having nothing but bogeys on the card for these courses. I have been stringing along 3-4 pars in a row in short sprints. I am averaging 2.0 putts PER HOLE according to Arccos. This tells me my pace control and green reading ability is a lot better than it use to be. I am able to go onto these websites for the courses tee times where reviews are like "This is a very challenging course, but tests you nicely." "It will make you hate yourself, but youll feel better about playing here." "These greens are tour rated speed and play extremely well." I now book tee times at these courses with the mentality of "Challenge Accepted. I can play here."
Even I go out and shoot a 95 because of a few blow up holes the blow up holes DO NOT tell you the whole story of your round. Arcoss shows you where your strengths were over the course of the round and you see where on your scorecard you went off the rails. For example I shot a +26 at a super hard course, but I ended up there from 4 holes. I was shooting my HCP +/- 1-2 strokes otherwise.
Long post short - Arccos WILL make you play better because data driven insights and goals you set on the app (you target a HCP you want to match) helps you get better. Arccoss gives you a goal to shoot for and provides you data on your journey to achieving that goal.
Copy paste marketing...
TL;DR - get lessons & practice and you will arrive at the same end, whether you had Arrcos or not
@@realyahtzee You can say its too long don't read but not everyone can afford to constantly shell out 60-200$ per lesson and most coaches want to see you 2 times a month. Being able to self coach can and does help you immensely in between lessons.
Having the data from Arccos system in my PERSONAL EXPERIENCE ONLY AKA ANECDODAL EXPERIENCE - has proved more valuable than 5000$ in lessons for the same time frame.
I am at the point now where I am moving into more of a Players Iron/MB/Blade (away from Players Distance Irons *P790). I know my ball striking is great and it is the reason I am moving toward these more workable iron sets. I also know that I am getting to the point where some more hands on lessons would be great.
I am fully aware my experience is different than others would approach their golf game. Providing the real world anecdotal experiences for these products is how these products are meant to be marketed.
Considering I can also take my scores after ensuring they are correct from a manual correction process from a scorecard and upload to USGA is a phenomenal feature.
MY PERSONAL RECOMMENDATION TO FOLKS ON THE FENCE ABOUT ARCOSS
Try the 45 day trial
See if you improve after seeing your data provided to you
Cancel trial if you wish regardless of the improvements or no.
I can only state my personal experience and say for me "yes it was worth the investment. I wouldn't have considered doing tournaments if I didn't improve at the rate I did with Arccos."
When you're golfing and having to take so many penalty strokes, did you not notice this? When you ended a round taking 5 penalties on 4 lost balls, did you come away thinking your driver did well? Or you didn't notice that you were hitting 5 and 6 irons into greens instead of 8/9/PW? The things arccos gives you visibility to are also things you eyes give you visibility to. You needed a paid subscription to tell you this? Knowing you're a poor driver doesn't make it miraculously better through that knowledge itself.
@@chrisb1809 Obviously losing balls is due to poor strike w/swing and losing distance again was due to poor strike on face. Which by reading original comment you would know that I got a lesson for off the tee shots. I never shot 5/6 irons into greens, I was always had 150 or less which is generally my 9 or 8 depending on conditions (wind, green elevation to my location). The issue was I was only chasing a score and not overall improvement. I needed tangible targets that I could see myself progress over time and not hope whenever I went out it got better. Arccos provides that by allowing you to set your Target HCP...aka "Where do you want to be in terms of skill?" For me, modestly I set it to 20 HCP at first, then I set to 10 HCP. Until I am consistently at 8-9 HCP in terms of scores I won't move the target again.
I could tell where the issues were but no matter what time I spent working on it or watching video of myself. I was missing something my body and eyes were not telling me. This is the self coaching and self improvement wall that everyone hits. At that point I got a lesson and now if i lose a ball off the tee its because of a really really really bad shot which is generally rare now
Absolutely outstanding. A practical and impactful video. More plse....
Arccos is great tool for me when discussing what part of my game to improve.
I was on 17 when I got Arccos and set my target at 15. I overshot to 13 and briefly was in the 12s. Now I have reset my target to 10.
Since I took up golf serious again, I had been keeping a brief set of stats to track my game. Arccos takes this to the next level for me.
Holy moly, this was an amazing video. I didn't know a lot of this data was here and how to use it.
I just started using Arccos and found it super easy and unbelievably helpful. Compared with my target handicap I thought I needed to add another 20 yards before using Arccos, only to find out that driver length was just fine and I needed to work on certain putting distances and the 50 yards in chip shots.
Really enjoyed this! I have been using Arccos for a few months and already learned that what I thought was the problem really wasn’t. LOL. It would be great to see something like this for a higher handicap recreational player.
Thanks Lou for showing me a few things I didn’t know about. Arccos has helped my game tremendously. My friends laughed at me when I first started using Arccos but now they are quiet, probably because I can now beat the snot out of them with relative ease. Cheers.
I’ve been using Arccos for a couple of years and its good but obviously not perfect. For example, if you hit a drive into the trees and need to punch out, you will lose strokes gained on your approach not your driving because all it sees is you hit an iron 30 yds. Still worth the money imo
I’m trying to work out if there is a distance reference for the target ring?! When fully zoomed out and looking at landing zone and fairway width in that area for club selection and dispersion
Interesting to see if arrcoss is going to come up with their own formulation and strategy or if they are going to mimic the foundation decade has already implemented
One important point... to get good data you have to set the pin location (I do it using my apple watch - which works brilliantly). If you don't, your approach, short game, and putting stats will be whacky. Doing this changed my stats pretty significantly, and changed the areas to focus on to improve.
I didn't know this information. I use the Link so I wonder how I will set the pin. I have found that when you have Arccos on your watch and you are using the Link they don't do well together. I tracked with my Apple Watch and I had more problems so I switched to the link.
Some of the reviews I’ve seen said that the sensors will fall out and that if you take a practice swing it will register as a stroke.
So is this the TXG channel or club champion? I see the title but the subscriber count reflects TXG numbers. Change for format and focus going forward I sense?
Ian and Mike discussed it in more detail on the Q&A live video on July 31. As of August 1, TXG has officially become Club Champion Canada, and TXG's UA-cam channel has become the official Club Champion UA-cam channel going forward. Club Champion's old/original UA-cam channel had already been dormant for the last 6 months or so, and you can't even find their old UA-cam content/channel anymore (they do have their old legacy videos on Vimeo).
Announcement on July 31 Live Q&A - ua-cam.com/video/8ULHh9rmkGk/v-deo.html
I’m an Arccos user. It’s helpful, but you got to want it. There is data cleaning and some limited analytic time needed.
My biggest question has been … when do I pull a shot out of the data set? We have some SIGNIFICANT elevation drops at my club. I know there is some internal AI to help screen out abnormal shots, but should I just “X” them out?
I X out the extreme long ones it registers. Normal flat 9i is 145 about, we have a 23yard downhill par 3, it registers my 9i as about 170. I almost always pull that shot out.
Can anyone explain why my Overall Hcp under "Rolling Hcp" is different than my actual handicap that Arccos tracks? When you select either Driving, Approach, Short Game or Putting under the Player tab there is a grey icon for Rolling Hcp in each of those. When you select this and look at Overall Hcp (grey line) it's different than my actual handicap. Overall Hcp shows 15.5 but my Actual Hcp is 21. It's confusing and I don't know what it's relevance is. If anyone can help it would be greatly appreciated.
Are we getting a part 2?
Hi. Very useful. My question is do the stats factor in the fact I am a woman golfer - eg. are typical drive lengths adjusted depending on the sex of the player? Thanks.
I understand the stats after the round. Show us how you use Arccos on the course to collect the data. Thanks.
Is there a place to submit ideas to the team?
The combination of having a simulator in my garage and using Arccos data to tailor my practice i have gone from 15 hcp to a 5.
Is there a part 2?
I used the system for a few weeks...found it missed a lot of shots, had to edit extensively and was then worrying more about whether a shot had registered than the actual shot itself. Scores increased.
Wanted to use it but not to the detriment of my scores...plus the yearly fee bites.....
I have my Apple Watch set to give haptic feedback when it registers a shot. Super helpful to get rid of the "did it get that shot" anxiety and helps on when putting too. Having it on the watch is much better than a phone.
Do they affect swing weight in your clubs
This is great but a 10-15 handicap would make the results much more clear.
Could just buy a shotscope watch and pay nothing for the tracking 👍
A friend who got Arcos told me that if you take gimme putts or take practice putts that it messes everything up. Is that true?
It's easy to add the gimme and you need to add it to make the stats correct. Practice putts are easy to delete too. If you have an Apple Watch it's a tap of two on your wrist.
@@justinerb6975 Thank you! I will tell my friend.
Last thing anyone wants is another monthly fee
Did you do a part 2?
We'll be posting a couple Arccos videos this season, keep an eye out for those!
Should Approach play be judged by Pin Distance? Or Distance to Target?
Strokes gained stats take that into account. It’s all about how close you get to the hole on each shot relative to an average benchmark.
Both. Each approach distance has an average outcome distance, which then feeds the strokes gained. Example: from 150 yds a 15 hcp hits to an average of 40 ft. From 160 yds it’s 55 ft, and so on
@ian fraser what happened to Part 2 👍
One thing I don’t like about it . Could be my understanding is I use 7 iron to gap wedge around the greens a lot .this screws up suggested distances of those clubs and quite often go over greens using there suggestions
Arccos smart data takes this into account and discards major outliers like this.
Good to know. I’m considering Arccos & was wondering how they dealt w partial wedges, chips, etc
I wonder does the chip affect club balance? It weighs a few grams...?
The average distance seemed a bit off. Normally you are around 300ish give or take making a beast. But you have a lot of speed, is that average distance off the tee including 3wood t-shots?
Off the tee counts every tee shot on none par threes.
Edit, on the channel they also aren't showing the bad ones, you can't delete the bad shots on course.
Just listening here and it sounds like the golfer’s claim that his driver clubhead speed is down from 115/120 mph’s to 108 but 2 sentences later he says his greens hit in regulation is currently WAY higher 13-16 per round vs 10-12 with faster driver clubhead speed.
An argument that driving distance isn’t as important as hitting fairways! Am I wrong?
Lou is statdaddy
He’s a stathole
Ian needs to get aim point lessons! Very clear!! I am pretty confident that distance control is less of the issue and more green reading. Better green reading gives you more short putts but also shorter second putts. I was losing 1.5 strokes putting to a scratch before doing aimpoint, and now I’m losing 0.4 strokes putting to a +2 (the rest of my game sucks, but putting is pretty solid).
I would use Arccos if I could just mark my shots with a smart watch rather than have to rely on those damn tags. Because of my frustration with the tags, I use another sevice.
It integrates very well with the Apple Watch. Still occasionally misses chip and pitch shots with my 58* wedge but overall, no issues
All those stats are awesome but it's a hard pass on paying a subscription to access them.
Look into shot scope. Same data, shot tracking and all that but with no subscription fees
Does Arrcos know when you hit from a poor lie, or uphill, side hill, or downhill stance? Hmmm.
Lou Stagner is awesome. Does a great pod (for the geekier amongst us) with Mark Crossfield and PGA tour pro (and number 1 Greg in golf) Greg Chalmers.
I've passed on all of it, don't need more distractions per round.
The data is good. But you really still have to play and work on the physical and mental aspects of the game
I would love to use Arccos but I hate using my phone on the course. Wish there was a way where I didnt have to take out my phone on each shot to use it
They have Arccos Link (belt clip device) and Apple Watch support. I run it exclusively on Apple Watch Ultra and iPhone stays in golf cart.
Look into shot scope. No need for phone at all, no subscription fees and does everything Arccos does
You can do your own data collection much easier and free with a basic golf GPS app and not have to deal with finicky tags
The real value of arccos is the ability to compare Strokes gained with a very large sample size. I keep my own stats, but I have no ability to compare myself to a player at my target handicap
Sure. I don’t need that information because after tracking my shots I have a good grasp on where I’m gaining and losing strokes. Example: I hit a 270 drive to 15 ft in left rough, hit a approach from 150 yds to 50 ft, then 3 putt. I probably gained a partial stroke on my drive, a partial stroke on my approach, and lost a partial stroke on my putting.
Once you actually map out your shots, it’s not difficult to see where you’re gaining and losing strokes. I’m not going to pay $200+ dollars for Arrcos to tell me I lost 0.7 strokes and the calculation in my mind was I lost 0.5.
Ian time to put the Scotty away and get a 40 inch Jailbird.
“Lowering your scores is ultimately why you play the game.” 🤔 Should most amateurs really be thinking this way?
Says the emoji using clown. Nobody has ever taken you seriously... probably never will.
Absolutely
Been watching this channel for years and never realized Ian and I have the same initials … IF
the timing of this video and me getting arccos tomorrow for the first time bc the sensors came with a Ping g430 hybrid is 🤌🤌