I find it kind of compelling that there is no Kane and no Nod referenced at all in the Allied campaigns. This implies that Kane and Nod were operating so secretively that they flew completely under the radar of the Allied powers until the Tiberium Dawn happened. Pretty sneaky. And pretty cool.
An easier way to understand this is: Tiberium Timeline: - Everything's Linear Red Alert Timeline: - For every new iteration, everything's swept off the table.
I kinda would've loved it if Kane made a small cameo in the other two timelines. He would be Yuri's secret mentor in RA2, and he would be a secret backer of the GLA in Generals.
The developers have already answered this question in the past. In an old forum post Adam Isgreen, a former C&C lead developer, stated: "the solution to RA2's complete break of the RA -> C&C -> TS fiction was something that several of us came up with to "fix" the problem. RA being the prequel was what we (Westwood LV) intended for the series. It was originally called C&C0, FYI. RA2 was a great game, but we had issues with how to fit that into the timeline we wanted to maintain. We found a creative way to fix it. It's in the WWv2 C&C3 GDI campaign.Yuri, an acolyte of Kane's (Nod was experimenting with psionics in the WWv2 C&C3) is sucked into a chrono-vortex that is created by a Chronosphere that GDI inadvertently activates (along with some other RA-era tech) while attempting to retrieve the only other existing suit of powered "screaming eagle" commando armor (the first was melted on re-entry from orbit when the Philadelphia was destroyed) from the sealed tech vaults at Area 51. Just like Einstein fracturing the timeline from "real" time with his little trip back into the past in RA, so did Yuri's presence throw off the already-altered timeline again, creating the RA2 reality. RA games would have continued in that splintered reality. That is how it would have been explained. End of story on that." One could make the argument that this is not canon. However, I think the timeline being altered from something other than Allied or Soviet victory makes more sense. In no other C&C game does the conflicting campaigns make any alternate timelines. In fact, the Allied and Soviet campaigns somewhat complement each other. In the Soviet campaign you focus on the south, and in the Allied campaign most missions are in the north. Most missions in the two campaigns do not directly contradict each other, and I have even seen someone on Reddit use this to try and create a chronological mission order, showing that both campaigns can be canon up to a certain point. Kane not being shown in Allied cutscenes is logical considering that Allied cutscenes show only Allied characters. If other Soviet characters are not shown in Allied cutscenes do they not exist? There are of course counter-arguments, but this is why the timeline being altered from something else is better. Too many problems and alternate theories crop up when you say that one side's victory leads to a certain timeline. The Yuri explanation, in which his time travel created an entirely different timeline, is much cleaner in that it allows the two franchises to be separate, while allowing Red Alert to still stay part of both. There are of course lots of unanswered questions, but answering them with "The timeline got messed up so some things are different" is cleaner than trying to jump through hoops with Red Alert's different campaigns.
very interesting indeed so if played at chronological order red alert 1 all the way to Tiberian Twilight. Then the missing game which would have branched out into Red Alert 2 & 3 timeline
The only thing I really liked about EA taking over the franchise was that they prevented Westwood from overtly merging the two. I like to think that the Tiberium series diverges from our timeline after the arrival of Tiberium (at least from a public perspective with Nod being around long before). It's possible that Tiberium was going to come to the Red Alert universe as well, but it's set too early to be sure how the events of the Tiberium series would have changed. It's even possible that the Red Alert series DOES directly predate the Tiberium series, you just don't have to interpret it that way.
You would think that Yuri's powers would be like the forgotten, coming from Tiberium. Which even if not transitioning into infecting others, would infect him & show signs. To go from Psionics that is created/achieved with technology too it would almost assuredly be involving Tiberium right??? And so completely controlling the processes involved without a single grain of it later on, just seems weird.
@@RRW359 Three years later and it's no surprise you only have one like for being a fan of completely destroying the established, and intended, franchise lore by the original creators, in favour of your own poorly written fan fiction. Yeah, EA really did an amazing job killing one of PC gamings biggest franchises of all time. But at least you're happy I guess. 🙄
I've always believed kane was a time traveller. After they showed us Einstien did it, I figured Kane in the future did it aswell. Also RA3 killed Einstien will the same gimmick, so. *shrugs*
@@guxtse It is not exactly clear whether kane is a time traveler, if he is simply Immortal then he is simply still alive. He is said to be the Kane from Kane and Abel.
The tiberium universe start in 1995 with the meteor crashing Italy. The red alert universe start around 1946, ra2 start in 1972 and ra3 start after ra2 allied ending. Even if Kane is not present in the red alert universe, maybe is because it's not his time to shine, he is still waiting for tiberium to come to earth.
But you need something - in the end, not necessarily needing an answer immediately... for the meteor not hitting Earth in 1995. If you're going to say that a small satellite or something kept it off course, you're going to have to make a massive accident of it to do so. Any time before that point has Kain garnering support or influence - aren't Nod supposed to take advantage of Tiberium really early on? I mean maybe timeframe makes sense for it, but building the infrastructure & scientific gathering to study the crystals should take time & constant maintenance (given his immortality, but not ours) & Kain would always have to insure he had both on hand at all times to get the earliest access.
5:30 The Red Alert 2 game manual specifically mentions the events of Red Alert 1. 6:40 Yes we do, the war took place in the 50s. This, again, goes back to the game manual for Red Alert 2, since the manual says it's been 20 years since WW2, and Red Alert 2 ends in 1972.
Funny fact: Playing first Red Alert I've always chosen Soviets, but in "Tiberium" universe my first choice was always GDI. By the way, thanks for this video. Can't wait to see your next masterpiece.
@@Ole_Rasmussen consider the fact that T. Dawn is about 50 years latter in the timeline, makes sense Nod is using old stuff for the more basic part of their arsenal.
the only single point of reference is "obvious" presence of Kane. But what if in allies campaign, his presence is not seen, simply because after being done with Soviets, Kane is working on third world countries? mind you, the Tiberian Dawn starts with Nod controlling most of Africa n South America. How did that happened? May be while Japan, Allies and new Soviet Union were fighting, Kane planted a new brotherhood there?
That's exactly the biggest mistake people make with the timeline, they assume Kane not showing in the Allies cinematics means he doesn't exist and this is the "divergence". This completely ignores simple explanations, from him covering his tracks enough that Allied High Command doesn't even know he exists, up to him just booking it out to the third world when the war turned in the Allies favor. Ironically I have yet to see people point the REAL divergence and the whole reason Kane ran from the Soviet Union. THAT'S YOU! YOU ARE THE ALLIED COMMANDER WHO TURNS THE WAR AROUND
@@blackops9operation75 Because they didn't know who he was. Remember: Kane and the Brotherhood are masters of keeping themselves hidden until they want the world to know they exist. So I'm sureKane was able to trick Allied intelligence into believing he wasn't anyone important. Hell, the Brotherhood probably had agents working within the Allied intelligence services as well that would deflect any investigation into who this mysterious bald-headed man that always seems to be by Stalin's side is.
Kane DOES appear in Allied Campagn. In a FVM when after Evacuate Kosygin, they are watching Stalin’s speach and Von Esling talking: this man, is he Stalin’s advisor?
growing up. i knew it was kane wearing the hat. just made him more of a mystery for the allies side. thats how i always viewed it. i think the video was more clear back then.
You're right, he does appear in the FMV you mention, though your quote is about Nadia. That said he is very clear in the video, standing right behind Stalin.
He could have been killed/inprisoned by Yuri sometime in between 2 and 1 as Yuri was suppose to be a Noddy from the future though reguardless Yuri would have seen Kane as a threat. Kane could still exist in RA but not in a very prominent way like he does in Tib as its implied in RA2 that Yuri replaced him either because he took over the Brotherhood or he dismantled it with a Purge with the help of Stalin. ( every evidence of the person existing was destroyed so for someone like Kane who's backstory is already a mystery this makes it seem as if he never existed at all.)
I still think Kane (lives!) exists in all other universes it's simply that he's waiting for the right moment, having something to do with Tiberium's existence. His long-lived life would allow him to exist in any and all universes, maybe waiting for the right opportunity, or he knows when Tiberium is coming it's just not during the campaigns we play in the other universes. I still would like to see a game between C&C and Red Alert that tries tying in the soviet campaign with C&C. It would be massive fan service.
All I wanted was to see the RA3 factions *flipping the fuck out* with a sudden, overpowering Scrin invasion. Even more if they somehow discover this isn't even their military fleet, this is a mining guild! 😂 And now, the only hope they all possibly have... *is this dubious looking bald man who nobody's ever seen or heard of, but who presents himself as immortal, ancient and the only hope they have left.*
Thanks man for doing this right up to the release of the remastered collection. Such a treat to start a Friday off on. I love your take on the timeline.
Bro it if it wasn’t for you I wouldn’t have resurrected love for CnC, or discovered the remastered back in 2019. You make high quality content about a high quality franchise. You’ve got my subscription 1000x over
I actually kind of think the sudden appearance of the Empire of the Rising Sun in RA3 deserves some going over. I've actually put forward my own theory as to why the Empire of Japan never showed up in RA1 or RA2 but becomes very important in RA3. Our version of the Empire of Japan was strictly anti-communist but it also was a colonial power opposed to the influences of Britain, the US, and the Netherlands in Southeast Asia. This is what drove them into the Axis sphere of influence in our timeline but in the Red Alert timeline, they basically would be on their own. This might still beg the question of why they would not attack Pearl Harbor as is implied by General Carville in RA2 but I don't think that's entirely the case. You see, in the Hawaii map of RA2, the USS Arizona Memorial is present in Pearl Harbor. Keep in mind: the reason the USS Arizona Memorial is present in Pearl Harbor is _to commemorate the Japanese attack!_ In the context of the Third World War in RA2, Carville's belief that Pearl Harbor can't get successfully attacked a second time might refer to some cold hard military facts other than a simple belief in "the US is just too far away from the rest of the world's problems". That leads me to my last point: why is the Pacific War barely even mentioned in the RA timeline? Simple, it wasn't even a contest. Keep in mind, Einstein's Chronosphere in RA1 could teleport one unit _of any size_ including a full-sized capital ship. Japan getting bumf'ked by teleporting aircraft carriers after attacking Pearl Harbor would deserve only the slightest mention in any of the history books of the RA timeline hence the lack of Japanese presence in the first two games. That leads me to the explanation of how Einstein's temporal assassination led to the rise of the Empire of the Rising Sun in the RA3 timeline. It first needs to be noted that by all accounts, the World War II shown in RA1 could have _easily_ been far more bloody than our own WWII given that the Allies successfully invade and occupy the Soviet Union in that timeline. Without Einstein's Chronosphere, there is no decisive victory for about 30 years making the bloodshed even worse. Also, without Einstein's Chronosphere, the US would need an equivalent amount of force as applied in our timeline to knock Japan out of the war, which they wouldn't have available due to being tied down in Europe in the RA3 timeline. In essence, The Empire of the Rising Sun would be a Japan that met no resistance after establishing the Greater East-Asian Co-Prosperity Sphere.
I wonder what @AlternateHistoryHub thinks when reading this comment lol. He mockingly implied that the creators thought Japan only existed as an Empire in RA3 because no nuclear bombs. You certainly raise a much better point.
@RogerwilcoFoxtrot I like all the red alerts but saying ra2 is 70% serious being overly generous. It had Psychics with full mind control, giant squids a weather control super weapon and nearly every cutscene overtop cheesy and had silly dialogue, & thats just a few examples in RA 2 . YR was every bit as silly as RA3 if not more
I love your videos. I also love how crazy the lore behind C&C is. The awesome remastered collection gives me hope that we may one day better understand all the little bits of the universe that they never got to show before...
I love your analysis. That means, in the C&C lore... ...KANE LIVES! (P.S. Anyone waiting for the client to download? Steam seems to be pushing the download back every time it reaches the scheduled time)
"Before you can truly shape the future, you must posses the past. Assimilate our history, for it is your own." - Seth Note of something that just occurred to me: It could be just Kane's whole "religious way of talking" showing, but doesn't he actually himself several times make comments that in someway are related to time? Could the man himself thus be aware of Einstein's time travel, and know about alternative timelines? The Scrin obviously have knowledge of time manipulation technology, so if they have no idea what Kane is....He could in theory have knowledge about how timelines work, and far more about time in-general. He certainly seems to "predict" things, and all the futuristic tech becomes a whole lot suspicious if you think about it from this light....Even GDI had no real idea how Nod's stealth tech worked (beyond detection of it), despite decades of study of it circa Pre Tib-war 3, which is a veeeery long time of stealth tanks being a thing. The same GDI that during its existence has captures untold numbers of Nod bases with stealth tech left kicking about by that point was still confused.
VideoCrowsNest indeed. I always assumed that Kane was more or less a time traveller. Maybe also capable of alternate timeline shifting (like steins: gate) Maybe planting some seeds in the dawn of man, and then going to stalin’s court. Then moving forward, when the Tiberium came crashing to earth (was it 95?). Then disappearing again during the ion cannon blast, reapparing to slavick during Tiberian Sun. Also after cnc3 i assumed that the “big launch” of tib missiles in tib sun final mission was to lure the scrin to Earth.
I thought Kane being a time traveler was subtly hinted at during the Nod ending of Tiberian Sun. After launching the tiberium missile, Kane disappears with a visual effect that strongly resembles the chronosphere visual effect seen in RA1 cutscenes. Also interesting that the Scrin in C&C3 mention that Kane exists in their database. I wonder what the writers planned with that.
kane possessed the tacitus, a unique scrin artefact that allowed him impecable insights and knowledge, he knew tiberium was coming, he knew the scrin were coming, kane isn't even human, he's existed for over a hundred years without aging, and everytime you thought he was dead he wasn't, kane is a part of a different alien race, the general idea being an opposing race to the scrin, the stealth tech was scrin based, you actually recover it in a downed scrin vessel in tib 1 if i remember rightly, and with a elder race such as kane helping humans reverse engineer it, it makes sense why GDI never acquired that tech, its a recurring storyline in other franchises besides C&C, two alien races choose our planet to wage war on, due to it's enriched habitat making it a tasty snack for higher lifeforms,
Maybe Kane gone underground or hidden on the alternate universe where the tiberium didn't come to earth that explained his disappearance on Red Alert 2, or maybe because of Yuri? Maybe Yuri found out Kane's plan for the Soviet Union and killed him so he can replace him on betraying the Soviets. Like replacing the betrayer by a betrayer. Then Yuri used the new premiere as a puppet just like Kane using Stalin as a puppet for the brotherhood.
Keep in mind, the the Tiberium meteor did not hit earth in the Tiberian Dawn universe until late 80s or early 90s (and only discovered/harvested years later, after the events of Red Alert 2 and 3. So there is still a possibility that the Tiberium could still happen in the Red Alert universe, and Kane could be biding his time until that time.
Kane wanted wars to happen in order to accelerate technical progress to achieve his goals, he did not want the Soviets to win but just create further conflicts, that's why in RA Stalin dies no matter if Allies or Soviets win because, with Soviet victory with Stalin alive, there would be united Earth under communism and thus no further need for accelerated military tech progress as in the world constantly embroiled in the military conflicts. Without the Red Alert war, there would be no nuclear explosions that likely sparked the interest from Scrin to finish humanity before they become too dangerous and without their arrival, Kane would be unable to ascend with primitive human tech...
Here's how I see how Kane could fit into the universes established in the Red Alert sequels: In RA2, he disappeared after the fall of Moscow in WWII. However, prior to the fall, he was overseeing the psychic research program that created Yuri, and inducted him into the Brotherhood as an ace in the hole in case Stalin failed; Yuri would make the Allies' puppet into that of the Brotherhood and start a new war to further Nod's agenda. However, Yuri goes renegade and plans his betrayal, falling to the same hubris that has doomed many Nod commanders. In the RA3 timeline, same as above, possibly, perhaps even being behind Yuriko Omega's creation, but he sees the Empire as a serious threat to Nod's technological superiority, and between that and Cherdenko's ambitions probably making him too dangerous to the Brotherhood, Kane changes tactics and establishes FutureTech as a supplier for the Allies. At once he can take down the two biggest threats to Nod, and also weaken the Allies with blatant corruption in FutureTech's part.
What if some unknown Schrodinger entity is setting up the Red alert timelines and their constant changing timelines into a timestream guillotine aiming it at Kane, which is why Kane was so desperate to escape from the Tiberium universe to prevent himself from getting himself caught in a Red Alert 4 time machine reshuffling the timeline by tricking the original Einstein into thinking he successfully killed Hitler causing the timelines to forcibly merge together causing the Red alert and Tiberium timelines to converge, resulting in a grand battle for the fate of the timeline of Earth, as the Tiberium's Scrin now approach a planet with their full invasion force that is now barren of their precious Tiberium...
What if Kane is not unbelievably old, but instead... a Time Traveller. Would explain how he has foreknowledge of future events, and Kane even says something along the lines of "I can see the future."
I love this theorycrafting episode! It is so interesting, especially when you add the details Nod Commander gave on your Patreon discussion... wonderful work as usual! By the by, I messaged you on Patreon. Continue the amazing work! 😁👍
This is my personal head canon. Red Alert happens (late 40's into 50's), Stalin throws too many resources into trying to take the Chronosphere. The Soviets lose and Allies win, GDI is formed (under a different name as according to their lore they were extremely classified prior to TW1 and they were a UN branch) RA2 happens (the 70's). Kane is never seen after this fight, and his Brotherhood of Nod agents around the world to oversee how events play out in major world events. WW3 happens, YR happens, Allies win in all of them. The interwar conflict occurs, Allies win but the Soviets use the time machine and go back in time (RA3). They kill Enstein, without Enstein no Chronosphere is invented in WW2, neither are nukes. The Soviets don't pour all of their resources into taking the Chronosphere and the Soviets win, but just barely. Stalin is assasinated as per the in-game cutscenes, the Soviets dissolve as their power grip was tenuous after WW2. The Allies are brought back but their power is weak. We snap back to the RA3 intro (the 80's) when Krukov, Cherdenko, and Zelinsky are brought back and we see the result. The Soviets still reign supreme in their homeland and the Allies are weak, they push but then the Empire attacks: RA3 occurs, following the logic you said of if a mission does not contradict the "golden path" of the game then that mission can be considered canon even if it is from another campaign. The Allies win, the Uprising occurs. As part of the Uprising, FutureTech attempts to take technology from each of the world powers in Commander's Challenge, attacking all of the factions anonymously and even the Allies are exhausted from fighting such a massive 3 way war in RA3. Futuretech builds the Sigma Harmonizer with so much technology. The campaigns of the Uprising happen in this order (through Yuriko in, wherever it is not relevant): Soviet (the Allies back off from the Soviets after the harmonizer incident, and the Soviets begin trying to take Empire territory), Empire (Empire fight the Soviets off and wipe them out completely in the Vladivostok assault). The Allies can't let this level of Uprising go unanswered despite their weak situation and attack the Empire with what they have left. Allies win (Tatsu was playing both sides, only Kenji knew as he is the only commander we see in Empire campaign, so it explains why only Kenji flips his shit at Tatsu when he loses). Allies are spread thin and weakened, they reform into GDI to consolidate resources. The world we see in the tiberium universe is a world that is devastated from on off warfare and has beaten itself backward in technology in some areas. Tiberium arrives in '95, the tiberium universe occurs. Kane reveals himself openly after operating from the shadows throughout all of this. Kane is immortal, I don't imagine he'd let something as silly as time travel stop him considering how open it is in the RA universe that time travel exists. Nothing to prove this, as I said, this is just my personal head canon.
Speaking of Firestorm and Tiberium War, I'm really hoping that the success of this remaster means those games get remastered as well, I personally consider them the pinnacle of the series.
all i know how red alert relates to tiberium is kane is the Schrödinger's cat Do not read below this text if you consider this a spoiler and have never seen red alert cutscenes =============================================== if kane exist, the russian would have won the Red alert campaign and the timeline moves to tiberium dawn If kane does not exist, the allies won and we went into the red alert 2 timeline WHICH IS WHY to ensure the forming of NOD successfully YOU will play the Red alert campaign first to ensure soviet victory and then move on to tiberium dawn to finish the NOD campaign, if you call yourself a NOD believer in the name of KANE
I had been hoping to get this video out sooner, unfortunately I was delayed with illness. The video should go up an hour before launch, didn't want it to go live when the game is live
Thanks for this video! I actually fired up the Soviet campaign first in RA1 remastered. Since i am curious how the timelines will fit in. I am looking forward to your c&c content. Cheers!
I was just having a debate about this with a friend of mine last night. We weren't sure how to explain how the altered time travel timeline could lead to both Red Alert and Tiberium timelines. This makes a lot more sense than what we were coming up with. Brilliant and succinct.
I like to think that red alert is just an alternate timeline of "what would've happened if the meteor missed earth" or even just "hey this happened after red alert"
Did you know about Command & Conquer 3: Incursion Plot: The introductory sequence showed a GDI commando in Screaming Eagle power armor[4] floating in the debris field of Philadelphia, destroyed off screen by Nod. There were a number of flashback sequences before the commando re-entered the atmosphere. The armor was melted during re-entry.[5] GDI and Nod fought in Area 51. GDI was attempting to retrieve the remaining Screaming Eagle suit from the vaults. During the fighting, GDI inadvertently activated technology from Command & Conquer: Red Alert in one of the vaults, including a Chronosphere. A chrono vortex threw Yuri back in time. Yuri was the result of Nod's psychic experimentations and an acolyte of Kane. This would make Command & Conquer: Red Alert 2 another branch of the timeline.[4] Not that much is known about the plot afterwards, but it is known that it included the Scrin coming to Earth, lured by the Scrin rebels stealing the Tacitus, and also CABAL as a faction of its own. The Scrin believed that Tiberium would kill off humans, but didn't account for the effect it had on some humans, the Forgotten. They were able to harness Tiberium's energies themselves, able to direct them against the Scrin, nullifying their powers or even controlling ion storms. They were supposed to be a playable faction in an expansion pack for Incursion.
Although this video was very good, the usual pseudo in-universe way of narration is just amazing. I feel like I'm watching an actual documentary and I can really submerge myself inside the universe of CnC. Anyway, can't wait for more Nod stuff. Honestly I'd be fine if you just talked about stuff about the universe you wrote yourself and are in no way canon. You're more canon than EA anyway.
I've been kicking around the idea of writing what it would be like to live in a world of Tiberium; not to cover game events, just describe the world. Did you have something like that in mind? Thank you so much, glad you enjoyed it!
Nope. Both the Red Alert and Tiberium timelines come from the Allied victory. Not only do we have former developers on record saying that is the case, but if you think through things logically, there is no way the Soviet ending could possibly lead to the Tiberium timeline as we see it in the games.
Great video as usual! I never thought about it the way you layed it out ... the AR1 Allied campaign leading to TD and the Soviet campaign leading to AR2. But it makes sense. And it feels good to somehow be able to tue these universes together. So once again, thank you for delivering such quality C&C lore related content!
JuSt been playing Remastered sooo many memories I love the real time swap from original graphics to new graphics the films clips are a bit of a miss but also glad to see that they didn't just try to get me actors and refilm them
Tbh, I think you’re pretty much spot on with this. Kane and NOD exist in all three timelines, but at different strengths: With the success of his puppet Stalin, Kane and NOD rise to become the power we see in Tiberiumverse. When the Allies win, against the plans of Kane, he and the brotherhood go into hiding, watching from the shadows, seconded when Yuri gets to the new soviet premiere before Kane can, in an attempt to fix the failure of the first war. In the primary timeline, from the shadows, Kane and brotherhood agents incite war by influencing the GLA, USA and China in a hope to reveal themselves in the aftermath.
I always assumed that the Allies victory was canon in both timelines and the divergence point was whether or not the Tiberium meteor hit Earth. No Tiberium, no TibDawn.
I believe initially in C&C3, not the one we got, Yuri was actually working for NOD in the Psy-Op division and gets knocked back in time causing a splinter timeline(RA2).
I always assumed that the Kosygin scene that Stalin was indeed flanked by Nadia and Kane. It works in both the figurative and literal sense, that Stalin is the forefront of the Soviet Union, with Nod being unassuming in the background behind Stalin. The Allied campaign was fixated on Stalin because it’s assumed in the Allied campaign and even the Soviet one that he was running the show. The Allied wouldn’t have cared for Kane because he was probably just viewed as some random Stalin lackey. It’s that in the Soviet campaign too but there’s an element of mystery and nervousness from other Soviet characters when Kane is present. It fits well with the Nod narrative that they manipulate PR too so it wouldn’t surprise me that they did it in a way that Kane can go unnoticed and be the puppet master from the shadows. In my opinion, Soviet RA1 ending is purely for that ‘Nod controls Soviets’ revelation and didn’t happen. It may as well be Kane’s wet dream as he fondled with the Obelisk in his pants. Allied ending is the canon where Allied isn’t aware of the Nod presence and it’s all about Stalin. Kane and Nod slip away when it’s unwinnable and they’re forced underground to rebuild in the third world for decades. Allied absorbs Soviet tech and becomes GDI in response to the events of RA1, which is why GDI has Mammoths.
When Kane exists (in the Tiberium universe) there was Tiberium coming from space. But when kane didn't exist (in the Red Alert universe) there was no Tiberium coming from space. Does that mean the whole Tiberium situation was Kane's plan from the beginning? Maybe he already had contact with the Scrin before Tiberium came on earth.
I'm pretty sure Kane did have contact, he knew about Tiberium ahead of time and the Scrin knew about him, I wouldn't be surprised if he's the reason the Scrim found out about Earth
Didn't Nod have knowledge of Tiberium thousands of years in advance? IIRC, that's what Killian calims in the C&C 3 Nod intro. That would mean that Kane's meddling is the thing that brings Tiberium to Earth.
Here's a funny little thing to note: There has yet to be a Red Alert series game that plays after the first meteorite seeds Earth with Tiberium in the Tiberium Timeline. So strictly speaking, we don't know if it exists in Red Alert or not. C&C Generals does play after it, but that game is disconnected from the rest so eh.
I am of the belief that Kane somehow tricked Nikola Tesla into signalling the Scrin and making them aware of Earth. I say this because in real life, Tesla claimed to have made contact with aliens while conducting his experiments. Now while it is almost certain, the real Nikola Tesla did not contact aliens, perhaps the C&C Tesla did. And perhaps it was a bald-headed "research assistant" that nudged his experiments in a direction that would lead to him contacting aliens. And those aliens would be none other than the Scrin, who are now aware of a juicy new planet to terraform with Tiberium.
The equivalent of the kane figure in the ra2 universe is yuri, more or less. And I think that the timeline of ally-ra and soviet-ra both could co-exist if Kane is considered a time traveller / alternate timeline shifter. He’s “created” by the original Einstein anomaly. He created nod from the dawn of men travelling back in time (or in his original time frame). During ra1, He saw the allied victory (and maybe ra2 and ra3 events). He went back in time and make the soviet win the war instead. He jumped forward when Tiberium showed in earth. When his plan failed, he jumped forward, to appear (bruised) to slavick during tib sun. Then cnc3 happened, with the revised history for the final mission of tib sun. The missile launch’s purpose was to lore the scrin on earth (and the tower and so on) but it has to be done forward in time (again)
Excellent video! I have always felt that RA1 was a prequel to Tiberium Dawn even since I was a wee tot. I know the sequels afterwards make it hard and/or impossible to tie them together, but I like how you split the RA1 campaigns. I never thought of how each one leads to different universes. Maybe intentional on the developers part and maybe not, but it sure works for me!!!
If I remember correctly when you do the installation of RA1 there is a quote from Kane but I do not remember it. It's to long sens I had DOS or windows 95/98 computer to install it on.
The Allies ending is still canon to tiberium timeline. It has two ending brances stretching out (Three if you count the soviet ending). One leads to red alert 2 and onward the others to tiberium. Smart move by westwood it means they could make more games and stories. But just because you dont see Kane and the Brotherhood in the allied campaign does not mean they dont exist. In the tiberium branch i would think that when the soviets are on the defence and losing the war, Kane and the Brotherhood simply goes into hiding since the union have failed them. Nod needs to prepare for the coming of tiberium and remain hidden from the UN and the world. And since you also dont see Kane and the Brotherhood also it is a nice foundation for the continuation for the red alert series. So bottom line is Allies ending is canon for both series but the soviet one is not. If the soviets had won the war there would be no more UN probably and therefor no Global defence agency. Nod would have Asia and Europe in their hands and few if any would be able to truly stand up to them. So there would probably not be any tiberium war in 1995.
they were talking about setting up the Global Defense Initiative to deal with terrorist threats after the failure of the Soviet Union. In the Allied Victory. Also is that every single Red Alert game happens before 1995. Let’s take a look at the Red Alert Chronology Red Alert: 1946 - 1952 Red Alert 2: 1972-1975 Red Alert 3: 1986 - ??? (they don’t give any ideas in Red Alert 3 and Aftermath don’t give a good idea as how long that war lasts. Either way all of them happen before 1995
@@KaosNova2 Red Alert 3 takes place in the 1970s, just like RA2. The Third World War in RA3 replaces the Third World War fought in RA2 when Cherdenko changes the timeline.
Very good.... It's really good theory. Funny fact: I am russian, but in Red Alert 1 i always select Allies. In Tiberian Dawn i select a GDI. Idk, but i say that.
I played Red Alert first, as a kid. I just played C&C TD and holy moly.. the window transformed into a door. I had no idea that weird bald guy would become a sexy demigod. The ultimate collection is on my birthday list.
Personally, I prefer to think that the original timeline that Einstein is from, is the Tiberium universe, or perhaps just one version of it. As I understand, not a single one of the Red Alert games ever reached a date when reasonably Tiberium would have arrived, so it could always be looming in the distance, Kane manouvering behind the scenes, pitting world powers against eachother to both weaken them, and drive technological development as well as weapons manufacturing in an effort to better set up the Nod uprising when it comes, adapting to the changes he found himself with in this alternate timeline created by Einstein. To be even more complicated, I actually lean to agree that the Soviet ending of Red Alert 1 is the source of what we know as the Tiberium Universe, Kane bringing about a corrupt world order where he could supply Nod cells with the tools they'll need. But then the original Einstein's universe too would need to be hit by the same asteroid, which creates (and this is the point where it goes full tinfoil hat) what I consider to be the source of the chaos of so many splitting timelines. Why can there be multiple endings to most games? Why are there subtle differences between the balance of powers between the timelines of these endings? Why was it originally a planned point of canon that Yuri would be a creation of Kane, while also exhibiting what could be interpreted as a Kane-like agelessness (Stalin photo) and a knowledge of cloning (after Kane was known to lament his own impotence)? Two Tib timelines, one we know, one similar, but with the Tib 3 we didn't get. The Chronosphere that launched the Red Alert and possibly Tiberium universes would still exist in the original. Couldn't it be that through events unseen, people kept abusing its power, not understanding its function, creating unseen timelines and unintentionally meddling in timelines not their own? All in all, I think your version of the timelines is great, but I feel it's truer to Kane's nature to presume he is inevitable, and the only discrepancy is how and whether he chose to make his presence known. The closest proof of a lack of Kane's presence, is Yuri's Psychic dominator project which could have ruined Nod, but if Kane could over power CABAL, even an independent Yuri could only be spelling his own doom by connecting to every mind including Kane's. Perhaps I'm just trying to create an alternate scenario in which the developers can just drop a hat and say "okay, C&C4 actually happened in that other timeline. What a strange spin-off, back to business." Not that it will happen.
"As I understand, not a single one of the Red Alert games ever reached a date when reasonably Tiberium would have arrived, " If i remember right the Red Alert timeline goes into the 70´s at most. While the Asteroid hits Earth in 95. And the first Tiberium War is in the late 90´s. So a few Years later which makes sense. "Why was it originally a planned point of canon that Yuri would be a creation of Kane, while also exhibiting what could be interpreted as a Kane-like agelessness (Stalin photo) and a knowledge of cloning (after Kane was known to lament his own impotence)? " You know there is one thing that is a bit of a myth to me. In the "Tiberium Timeline" it is mentioned that the Death of Archduke Franz Ferdinand (cause of WWI) is done by the Black Hand in Sarajevo. Sarajevo rings quite some bells for Nod. I always though that this is just a bit of "Propaganda" by Nod. But on the other hand. It would just be another War isntigated by Nod. The Question of how old is Kane ...... is problematic seeing all the Myths and Propaganda around him. But then ... that is probably why i love Nod so much. So many strings leading to red herings. So many dots not conected. So many mysteriums still left untouched.
@@kaitan4160 I always thought that the Tiberium asteroid crashed more in the period of 1987-1992, on account of how far Tiberium spread and how integral it became to the world's economy by the late 90s. (87 and 92 are a bit of arbitrary dates, just roughly in that area) As for Kane, yeah I agree that the mystery behind his origins is an important part of the mythos, and I would rather there never be a direct explanation. Still, I think without some special explanation, it should be assume Kane is part of every timeline that is connected whatsoever. Not just because I'm a bit iffy on the mechanics of an entire secret order that can manipulate the Soviet Union both existing and not, but because I was a fan of Yuri's Revenge's twist. I think the concept of world powers waging war while Kane or Yuri's just off in the background organizing their own secret plans.
I never really felt like Red Alert being related to C&C1 worked super well. Part of the unique appeal of Tiberian Dawn to me is the very "day after tomorrow" feel to it; despite gameplay conventions like the MCV, almost everything about GDI's look and feel is meant to evoke totally mundane, real-world-ish tech (M16s, Humvees, etc), whereas what makes NOD cool and interesting is that they have this mysterious, cutting-edge super-science that's visually and thematically distinct. The world of Tiberian Dawn is also intended to feel like our world (or, at least, our world in the 1990s); the game goes to such pains in the various media broadcasts to make it feel like you're catching snippets of CNN reportage on some real-world conflict. Learning that 50 years ago everyone was running around in time-traveling art deco battleships kind of...takes away from all that.
I agree. Part of the appeal to me was how it was based on real life tech with some fantasy sprinkled in. The only things that aren't real: MCV, Harvester, Obelisk of Light, Chemical Warrior, Recon Bike, SAM (the hiding underground part), Stealth Tank, Mammoth Tank, Ion Cannon, Orca. This is like 20% of all the things that are in game. Everything else is based on real life tech that was available back then.
But we know that in cnc, the soviet union no longer exists. We also know that a bulk of the GDI military is American (M1 abrams medium tank, A10 warthog, Humvee etc). So why would the Soviet union have collapsed if they won the war? More importantly, how does the US become such a military superpower? Especially considering that in the GDI campaign takes place in Europe, just outside of Russia, so naturally the Russians should handle the threat instead of the Americans.
NOD attacked Russia with terrorism, and The Russian Federation was a founding member of GDI as a result. Russia is a member. Also true is that General Shephard of GDI is from America, as is GDI Commado Captain Parker. Also it appears that American soldiers joined near the end of the first Red Alert, or just bad voices, but the Soldiers talking to General Stavros in the final allied ending where Stavros kills Stalin certainly sound like North American accents.
The later Red Alert were supposed to be linked to the Tiberium saga at one point, since Renegade 2 was about the Brotherhood of Nod emerging from the fallen Soviet Union after the Allies win in Red Alert 2, and Westwood's version of C&C 3 involved Yuri being a Nod agent who went sent back in time.
Way back around 2007 someone wrote a fanfic history of the C&C universe. It started with Einstein and his removal of Hitler from history. From there it went on to tell the story of Red Alert right on up through the Scrin arrival in C&C3. Of course it followed the Allied victory and subsequent GDI victories as well. I copied it over into a Word doc and even at 10pt (Times New Roman) the thing took up 48 pages! It was very well written too. If the author ever finished it, i.e. going through Kane's Wrath or even C&C4, I haven't ever seen it and I doubt I could find a copy of it online today.
Great video, and a nice set up for the timelines. I do think that the "it came from redalert" timeline can be chalked up to a branch from the timeline leading to the tiberium timeline base on the gold coloration of the unit and mix match of soviet and allied tech possibly hinting at the early days of GDI following the war like you pointed out in the video. Though as for discrepancies something I'd like to point out is the AH-64 and M1 Abrams being widely used by the allies during the 1970s conflict despite not seeing mass production and widespread use until the 80s.
for me the 2 campaigns of Red Alert lead to Tiberian Dawn. the Red Alert serie talks about alternative chronologies so we should not try to oppose "Red Alert 2" and "Tiberian Dawn". in 1996, it was the Allied campaign which was presented by Westwood as the prequel to CnC, even if it was in the Soviet campaign that Kane was exposed.
For the Tiberium universe I can accept a Soviet Victory as canon to the timeline. With a History where the 2nd World War was fought between the western nations and the Soviets ultimately ending with a Soviet victory in Europe and the signing of an Armistice, but after the victory and Stalin's murder the Union quickly begins to fall apart, European nations regain their independence and the Global Defense Initiative is created to oppose the regime.
As always, a great video. I too like your interpretation of the timeline. I can't remember exactly where I heard this, but I do remember someone from Westwood stating the Red Alert 1 is supposed to be a prequel, before RA2 threw out that idea. Either way, can't wait for that GDI video!
I like to think that in the Allied RA1 campaign, the allies attacked Moscow and used the Chronosphere which, if you remember, was wildly unstable at the time (that weird vortex side effect). I would imagine that during this mission, a chrono-vortex might have simply accidentally erased Kane from reality somehow by sheer coincidence. I mean it's quite clear that Kane can't die by conventional means so an accidental erasure from time itself could work. This lead to Nod never existing and leads to the events of RA2 and so on. In the Soviet campaign, the Allies never used the Chronosphere in Moscow, Kane was never erased and thus, we go to the existence of Nod and the Tiberium universe.
"He who controls the past, commands the future. He who commands the future, conquers the past." - Kane (Red Alert DOS installation)
or now the remastered version :D
Orwell.
@@TikoPiko Yes "1984", best book after "Animal Farm"
Peace. Unity. Brotherhood.
I find it kind of compelling that there is no Kane and no Nod referenced at all in the Allied campaigns. This implies that Kane and Nod were operating so secretively that they flew completely under the radar of the Allied powers until the Tiberium Dawn happened. Pretty sneaky. And pretty cool.
An easier way to understand this is:
Tiberium Timeline:
- Everything's Linear
Red Alert Timeline:
- For every new iteration, everything's swept off the table.
Fancy seeing you here. C&C song when? :D
ua-cam.com/video/YUJdPh00MWc/v-deo.html
Yeah, that sounds about right.
GDI video never came lol
ok but what about command and conquer 4?
I kinda would've loved it if Kane made a small cameo in the other two timelines. He would be Yuri's secret mentor in RA2, and he would be a secret backer of the GLA in Generals.
That would mean that Generals is an entirely different timeline which we know nothing about. Hmmmm
@@whitewolf44a my theory is Generals is what happens if Einstein did invent time travel tech (unlike in our timeline) but didn't actually use it.
@@SamGarcia Or actually the timeline where Einstein did use it but we cut away from it in favor of Red Alert.
It has struck me that Yuri and Kane are quite similiar. They both use cloning technology.
Yuri could be a Kane clone, that guy loves to mess around with clones, so there
Like the Brotherhood of Nod, the C&C fandom shall rise from the ashes once more! EA can't kill C&C!
Rule of thumb EA
You can't kill the messiah
EA has done some not shitty things with the remaster. biggest thing is releasing the source code under gpl 3
CNC LIVES!
Peace through Power! Kane lives in death!
Peace through C&C! Westwood lives!
The developers have already answered this question in the past. In an old forum post Adam Isgreen, a former C&C lead developer, stated:
"the solution to RA2's complete break of the RA -> C&C -> TS fiction was something that several of us came up with to "fix" the problem. RA being the prequel was what we (Westwood LV) intended for the series. It was originally called C&C0, FYI. RA2 was a great game, but we had issues with how to fit that into the timeline we wanted to maintain. We found a creative way to fix it. It's in the WWv2 C&C3 GDI campaign.Yuri, an acolyte of Kane's (Nod was experimenting with psionics in the WWv2 C&C3) is sucked into a chrono-vortex that is created by a Chronosphere that GDI inadvertently activates (along with some other RA-era tech) while attempting to retrieve the only other existing suit of powered "screaming eagle" commando armor (the first was melted on re-entry from orbit when the Philadelphia was destroyed) from the sealed tech vaults at Area 51.
Just like Einstein fracturing the timeline from "real" time with his little trip back into the past in RA, so did Yuri's presence throw off the already-altered timeline again, creating the RA2 reality. RA games would have continued in that splintered reality.
That is how it would have been explained. End of story on that."
One could make the argument that this is not canon. However, I think the timeline being altered from something other than Allied or Soviet victory makes more sense. In no other C&C game does the conflicting campaigns make any alternate timelines. In fact, the Allied and Soviet campaigns somewhat complement each other. In the Soviet campaign you focus on the south, and in the Allied campaign most missions are in the north. Most missions in the two campaigns do not directly contradict each other, and I have even seen someone on Reddit use this to try and create a chronological mission order, showing that both campaigns can be canon up to a certain point. Kane not being shown in Allied cutscenes is logical considering that Allied cutscenes show only Allied characters. If other Soviet characters are not shown in Allied cutscenes do they not exist? There are of course counter-arguments, but this is why the timeline being altered from something else is better. Too many problems and alternate theories crop up when you say that one side's victory leads to a certain timeline. The Yuri explanation, in which his time travel created an entirely different timeline, is much cleaner in that it allows the two franchises to be separate, while allowing Red Alert to still stay part of both. There are of course lots of unanswered questions, but answering them with "The timeline got messed up so some things are different" is cleaner than trying to jump through hoops with Red Alert's different campaigns.
very interesting indeed so if played at chronological order red alert 1 all the way to Tiberian Twilight. Then the missing game which would have branched out into Red Alert 2 & 3 timeline
The only thing I really liked about EA taking over the franchise was that they prevented Westwood from overtly merging the two. I like to think that the Tiberium series diverges from our timeline after the arrival of Tiberium (at least from a public perspective with Nod being around long before). It's possible that Tiberium was going to come to the Red Alert universe as well, but it's set too early to be sure how the events of the Tiberium series would have changed. It's even possible that the Red Alert series DOES directly predate the Tiberium series, you just don't have to interpret it that way.
@@RRW359 you can interpret it as a opposite of a Soviet Victory still.
You would think that Yuri's powers would be like the forgotten, coming from Tiberium. Which even if not transitioning into infecting others, would infect him & show signs.
To go from Psionics that is created/achieved with technology too it would almost assuredly be involving Tiberium right??? And so completely controlling the processes involved without a single grain of it later on, just seems weird.
@@RRW359 Three years later and it's no surprise you only have one like for being a fan of completely destroying the established, and intended, franchise lore by the original creators, in favour of your own poorly written fan fiction.
Yeah, EA really did an amazing job killing one of PC gamings biggest franchises of all time. But at least you're happy I guess. 🙄
I love the timelines you've set up. Gives a little flavor to the whole Command and Conquer franchise (exceptions of course are obvious).
Absofuckinglutely , this content has made me so stoked for C&C again.
I've always believed kane was a time traveller. After they showed us Einstien did it, I figured Kane in the future did it aswell. Also RA3 killed Einstien will the same gimmick, so. *shrugs*
@@guxtse It is not exactly clear whether kane is a time traveler, if he is simply Immortal then he is simply still alive. He is said to be the Kane from Kane and Abel.
Would love to see a timeline with all the total conversion mods included
@Lord Of Vengeance Uhhh...?
Bud - You're criminally underrated - More people should see these videos
The tiberium universe start in 1995 with the meteor crashing Italy.
The red alert universe start around 1946, ra2 start in 1972 and ra3 start after ra2 allied ending.
Even if Kane is not present in the red alert universe, maybe is because it's not his time to shine, he is still waiting for tiberium to come to earth.
But you need something - in the end, not necessarily needing an answer immediately... for the meteor not hitting Earth in 1995. If you're going to say that a small satellite or something kept it off course, you're going to have to make a massive accident of it to do so. Any time before that point has Kain garnering support or influence - aren't Nod supposed to take advantage of Tiberium really early on? I mean maybe timeframe makes sense for it, but building the infrastructure & scientific gathering to study the crystals should take time & constant maintenance (given his immortality, but not ours) & Kain would always have to insure he had both on hand at all times to get the earliest access.
My favorite game
We meet again my friend
You gotta play Dune or at least watch his Dune video.
5:30 The Red Alert 2 game manual specifically mentions the events of Red Alert 1. 6:40 Yes we do, the war took place in the 50s. This, again, goes back to the game manual for Red Alert 2, since the manual says it's been 20 years since WW2, and Red Alert 2 ends in 1972.
Funny fact: Playing first Red Alert I've always chosen Soviets, but in "Tiberium" universe my first choice was always GDI. By the way, thanks for this video. Can't wait to see your next masterpiece.
Think that is pretty natural tbh, as in terms of playstyle, GDI is closer to soviet, and Allied is closer to Nod
@@GummieI Allies and Nod literally have the same turret. The world is upside down.
GDI is not a NATO equivalent, it is a UN peacekeeping force, so there is no problem with this.
@@Ole_Rasmussen consider the fact that T. Dawn is about 50 years latter in the timeline, makes sense Nod is using old stuff for the more basic part of their arsenal.
@@Simbirsk2130 GDI is descended from both of RA's factions combined. Basically, the original Red Alert is their origin story.
the only single point of reference is "obvious" presence of Kane. But what if in allies campaign, his presence is not seen, simply because after being done with Soviets, Kane is working on third world countries? mind you, the Tiberian Dawn starts with Nod controlling most of Africa n South America. How did that happened? May be while Japan, Allies and new Soviet Union were fighting, Kane planted a new brotherhood there?
That's exactly the biggest mistake people make with the timeline, they assume Kane not showing in the Allies cinematics means he doesn't exist and this is the "divergence".
This completely ignores simple explanations, from him covering his tracks enough that Allied High Command doesn't even know he exists, up to him just booking it out to the third world when the war turned in the Allies favor.
Ironically I have yet to see people point the REAL divergence and the whole reason Kane ran from the Soviet Union.
THAT'S YOU!
YOU ARE THE ALLIED COMMANDER WHO TURNS THE WAR AROUND
@@LtAlguien
Pretty sure there's also hints in TibDawn that GDI arose from the victors of WW2, it's one of the early cutscenes.
Bingo. Kane's the hidden hand guiding the Soviets. Keyword: hidden.
@@matthewsleeman3309 That is not completely correct, Russia was a founding member of the GDI.
@@TheMaghorn but China is with Nod
Actually Kane does appear briefly in the Allied campaign. You can briefly see him when Stalin was making his speech to nuke everything.
He was there. But the Allied Forces ignored him.
@@blackops9operation75 Because they didn't know who he was. Remember: Kane and the Brotherhood are masters of keeping themselves hidden until they want the world to know they exist. So I'm sureKane was able to trick Allied intelligence into believing he wasn't anyone important. Hell, the Brotherhood probably had agents working within the Allied intelligence services as well that would deflect any investigation into who this mysterious bald-headed man that always seems to be by Stalin's side is.
This has always been my reasoning as well. Plus in terms of years, all Red Alert games take place prior to 1995.
Kane DOES appear in Allied Campagn. In a FVM when after Evacuate Kosygin, they are watching Stalin’s speach and Von Esling talking: this man, is he Stalin’s advisor?
I just watched that. I only heard Esling talk about the Natascha. No word about Kane.
He mentioned his 'paramour', not advisor.
growing up. i knew it was kane wearing the hat. just made him more of a mystery for the allies side. thats how i always viewed it. i think the video was more clear back then.
You're right, he does appear in the FMV you mention, though your quote is about Nadia. That said he is very clear in the video, standing right behind Stalin.
He could have been killed/inprisoned by Yuri sometime in between 2 and 1 as Yuri was suppose to be a Noddy from the future though reguardless Yuri would have seen Kane as a threat.
Kane could still exist in RA but not in a very prominent way like he does in Tib as its implied in RA2 that Yuri replaced him either because he took over the Brotherhood or he dismantled it with a Purge with the help of Stalin. ( every evidence of the person existing was destroyed so for someone like Kane who's backstory is already a mystery this makes it seem as if he never existed at all.)
I just wanted to say thank you No Strings, you got me into the Dune book series and I cant imagine missing out on it.
That's awesome, glad to have helped!
7:56 I love how you ignored C&C4 WE don't talk about that one
c&c4? kanes wrath was the last game in the tiberium series
Nah, Tiberian Sun is the last great game of the Tiberium series. Wars just doesn't fit in the Tiberium theme for some reason.
In CnC4 though, when Kane is about to enter the Scrin tower, he says he waited thousands of years to do that. But yes, the game sucks.
I still think Kane (lives!) exists in all other universes it's simply that he's waiting for the right moment, having something to do with Tiberium's existence. His long-lived life would allow him to exist in any and all universes, maybe waiting for the right opportunity, or he knows when Tiberium is coming it's just not during the campaigns we play in the other universes. I still would like to see a game between C&C and Red Alert that tries tying in the soviet campaign with C&C. It would be massive fan service.
All I wanted was to see the RA3 factions *flipping the fuck out* with a sudden, overpowering Scrin invasion. Even more if they somehow discover this isn't even their military fleet, this is a mining guild! 😂
And now, the only hope they all possibly have... *is this dubious looking bald man who nobody's ever seen or heard of, but who presents himself as immortal, ancient and the only hope they have left.*
Thanks man for doing this right up to the release of the remastered collection. Such a treat to start a Friday off on. I love your take on the timeline.
Bro it if it wasn’t for you I wouldn’t have resurrected love for CnC, or discovered the remastered back in 2019. You make high quality content about a high quality franchise. You’ve got my subscription 1000x over
That seriously means a lot to hear, thank you so much, glad you enjoy it!
No Strings Prd here’s hoping we see each other on the battlefield commander ;)
I actually kind of think the sudden appearance of the Empire of the Rising Sun in RA3 deserves some going over. I've actually put forward my own theory as to why the Empire of Japan never showed up in RA1 or RA2 but becomes very important in RA3. Our version of the Empire of Japan was strictly anti-communist but it also was a colonial power opposed to the influences of Britain, the US, and the Netherlands in Southeast Asia. This is what drove them into the Axis sphere of influence in our timeline but in the Red Alert timeline, they basically would be on their own. This might still beg the question of why they would not attack Pearl Harbor as is implied by General Carville in RA2 but I don't think that's entirely the case. You see, in the Hawaii map of RA2, the USS Arizona Memorial is present in Pearl Harbor. Keep in mind: the reason the USS Arizona Memorial is present in Pearl Harbor is _to commemorate the Japanese attack!_ In the context of the Third World War in RA2, Carville's belief that Pearl Harbor can't get successfully attacked a second time might refer to some cold hard military facts other than a simple belief in "the US is just too far away from the rest of the world's problems". That leads me to my last point: why is the Pacific War barely even mentioned in the RA timeline? Simple, it wasn't even a contest. Keep in mind, Einstein's Chronosphere in RA1 could teleport one unit _of any size_ including a full-sized capital ship. Japan getting bumf'ked by teleporting aircraft carriers after attacking Pearl Harbor would deserve only the slightest mention in any of the history books of the RA timeline hence the lack of Japanese presence in the first two games.
That leads me to the explanation of how Einstein's temporal assassination led to the rise of the Empire of the Rising Sun in the RA3 timeline. It first needs to be noted that by all accounts, the World War II shown in RA1 could have _easily_ been far more bloody than our own WWII given that the Allies successfully invade and occupy the Soviet Union in that timeline. Without Einstein's Chronosphere, there is no decisive victory for about 30 years making the bloodshed even worse. Also, without Einstein's Chronosphere, the US would need an equivalent amount of force as applied in our timeline to knock Japan out of the war, which they wouldn't have available due to being tied down in Europe in the RA3 timeline. In essence, The Empire of the Rising Sun would be a Japan that met no resistance after establishing the Greater East-Asian Co-Prosperity Sphere.
I wonder what @AlternateHistoryHub thinks when reading this comment lol. He mockingly implied that the creators thought Japan only existed as an Empire in RA3 because no nuclear bombs. You certainly raise a much better point.
@RogerwilcoFoxtrot I like all the red alerts but saying ra2 is 70% serious being overly generous. It had Psychics with full mind control, giant squids a weather control super weapon and nearly every cutscene overtop cheesy and had silly dialogue, & thats just a few examples in RA 2 . YR was every bit as silly as RA3 if not more
I love your videos. I also love how crazy the lore behind C&C is. The awesome remastered collection gives me hope that we may one day better understand all the little bits of the universe that they never got to show before...
I love your analysis. That means, in the C&C lore...
...KANE LIVES!
(P.S. Anyone waiting for the client to download? Steam seems to be pushing the download back every time it reaches the scheduled time)
Kane
Lives
In
Death
You can't kill the messiah
Google search how to kill Kane
"Before you can truly shape the future, you must posses the past. Assimilate our history, for it is your own." - Seth
Note of something that just occurred to me:
It could be just Kane's whole "religious way of talking" showing, but doesn't he actually himself several times make comments that in someway are related to time?
Could the man himself thus be aware of Einstein's time travel, and know about alternative timelines?
The Scrin obviously have knowledge of time manipulation technology, so if they have no idea what Kane is....He could in theory have knowledge about how timelines work, and far more about time in-general.
He certainly seems to "predict" things, and all the futuristic tech becomes a whole lot suspicious if you think about it from this light....Even GDI had no real idea how Nod's stealth tech worked (beyond detection of it), despite decades of study of it circa Pre Tib-war 3, which is a veeeery long time of stealth tanks being a thing. The same GDI that during its existence has captures untold numbers of Nod bases with stealth tech left kicking about by that point was still confused.
VideoCrowsNest indeed. I always assumed that Kane was more or less a time traveller.
Maybe also capable of alternate timeline shifting (like steins: gate)
Maybe planting some seeds in the dawn of man, and then going to stalin’s court.
Then moving forward, when the Tiberium came crashing to earth (was it 95?).
Then disappearing again during the ion cannon blast, reapparing to slavick during Tiberian Sun.
Also after cnc3 i assumed that the “big launch” of tib missiles in tib sun final mission was to lure the scrin to Earth.
I thought Kane being a time traveler was subtly hinted at during the Nod ending of Tiberian Sun. After launching the tiberium missile, Kane disappears with a visual effect that strongly resembles the chronosphere visual effect seen in RA1 cutscenes.
Also interesting that the Scrin in C&C3 mention that Kane exists in their database. I wonder what the writers planned with that.
@@kirby28645 there were alien ships mission in tib. So could that have recorded some data?
kane possessed the tacitus, a unique scrin artefact that allowed him impecable insights and knowledge,
he knew tiberium was coming, he knew the scrin were coming, kane isn't even human, he's existed for over a hundred years without aging, and everytime you thought he was dead he wasn't, kane is a part of a different alien race, the general idea being an opposing race to the scrin,
the stealth tech was scrin based, you actually recover it in a downed scrin vessel in tib 1 if i remember rightly, and with a elder race such as kane helping humans reverse engineer it, it makes sense why GDI never acquired that tech,
its a recurring storyline in other franchises besides C&C, two alien races choose our planet to wage war on, due to it's enriched habitat making it a tasty snack for higher lifeforms,
Kane was meant to be a time traveller. That alien shit in 4 was bullshit
Maybe Kane gone underground or hidden on the alternate universe where the tiberium didn't come to earth that explained his disappearance on Red Alert 2, or maybe because of Yuri? Maybe Yuri found out Kane's plan for the Soviet Union and killed him so he can replace him on betraying the Soviets. Like replacing the betrayer by a betrayer. Then Yuri used the new premiere as a puppet just like Kane using Stalin as a puppet for the brotherhood.
Keep in mind, the the Tiberium meteor did not hit earth in the Tiberian Dawn universe until late 80s or early 90s (and only discovered/harvested years later, after the events of Red Alert 2 and 3.
So there is still a possibility that the Tiberium could still happen in the Red Alert universe, and Kane could be biding his time until that time.
Originally Yuri was in C&C3, by westwood not EA, and gets knocked into a time machine which alludes to an alternate timeline with RA2.
Sorry but Kane is immortal. He cannot be killed. You can't kill a messiah
Kane wanted wars to happen in order to accelerate technical progress to achieve his goals, he did not want the Soviets to win but just create further conflicts, that's why in RA Stalin dies no matter if Allies or Soviets win because, with Soviet victory with Stalin alive, there would be united Earth under communism and thus no further need for accelerated military tech progress as in the world constantly embroiled in the military conflicts. Without the Red Alert war, there would be no nuclear explosions that likely sparked the interest from Scrin to finish humanity before they become too dangerous and without their arrival, Kane would be unable to ascend with primitive human tech...
Here's how I see how Kane could fit into the universes established in the Red Alert sequels:
In RA2, he disappeared after the fall of Moscow in WWII. However, prior to the fall, he was overseeing the psychic research program that created Yuri, and inducted him into the Brotherhood as an ace in the hole in case Stalin failed; Yuri would make the Allies' puppet into that of the Brotherhood and start a new war to further Nod's agenda. However, Yuri goes renegade and plans his betrayal, falling to the same hubris that has doomed many Nod commanders.
In the RA3 timeline, same as above, possibly, perhaps even being behind Yuriko Omega's creation, but he sees the Empire as a serious threat to Nod's technological superiority, and between that and Cherdenko's ambitions probably making him too dangerous to the Brotherhood, Kane changes tactics and establishes FutureTech as a supplier for the Allies. At once he can take down the two biggest threats to Nod, and also weaken the Allies with blatant corruption in FutureTech's part.
Shrödingers Kane...Now I can't shake the mental image of Kane wearing cat ears...
Kane already played Viola, so I'm not surprised if he wears cat ears.
I doubt we'll have to imagine it; for someone on deviantArt probably has drawn it XD.
eh... u shouldn't see the actor youtube channel... then... i mean... the man Does God tier videos... but kane.
What if some unknown Schrodinger entity is setting up the Red alert timelines and their constant changing timelines into a timestream guillotine aiming it at Kane, which is why Kane was so desperate to escape from the Tiberium universe to prevent himself from getting himself caught in a Red Alert 4 time machine reshuffling the timeline by tricking the original Einstein into thinking he successfully killed Hitler causing the timelines to forcibly merge together causing the Red alert and Tiberium timelines to converge, resulting in a grand battle for the fate of the timeline of Earth, as the Tiberium's Scrin now approach a planet with their full invasion force that is now barren of their precious Tiberium...
I would like to see what the Scrin do when fighting the Red Alert factions, especially the Japanese one.
18 minutes to go! This video should definitely entertain me during the wait. I always enjoy your awesome C&C videos. Peace through power!
What if Kane is not unbelievably old, but instead... a Time Traveller. Would explain how he has foreknowledge of future events, and Kane even says something along the lines of "I can see the future."
that actually makes sense to me, man, you're an absolute C&C treasure
Thank you so much for the hard effort put into this!
That's very kind of you, thank you, glad you enjoyed the videos mate!
I love this theorycrafting episode! It is so interesting, especially when you add the details Nod Commander gave on your Patreon discussion... wonderful work as usual! By the by, I messaged you on Patreon. Continue the amazing work! 😁👍
This is my personal head canon. Red Alert happens (late 40's into 50's), Stalin throws too many resources into trying to take the Chronosphere. The Soviets lose and Allies win, GDI is formed (under a different name as according to their lore they were extremely classified prior to TW1 and they were a UN branch) RA2 happens (the 70's). Kane is never seen after this fight, and his Brotherhood of Nod agents around the world to oversee how events play out in major world events. WW3 happens, YR happens, Allies win in all of them. The interwar conflict occurs, Allies win but the Soviets use the time machine and go back in time (RA3). They kill Enstein, without Enstein no Chronosphere is invented in WW2, neither are nukes. The Soviets don't pour all of their resources into taking the Chronosphere and the Soviets win, but just barely. Stalin is assasinated as per the in-game cutscenes, the Soviets dissolve as their power grip was tenuous after WW2. The Allies are brought back but their power is weak.
We snap back to the RA3 intro (the 80's) when Krukov, Cherdenko, and Zelinsky are brought back and we see the result. The Soviets still reign supreme in their homeland and the Allies are weak, they push but then the Empire attacks: RA3 occurs, following the logic you said of if a mission does not contradict the "golden path" of the game then that mission can be considered canon even if it is from another campaign. The Allies win, the Uprising occurs. As part of the Uprising, FutureTech attempts to take technology from each of the world powers in Commander's Challenge, attacking all of the factions anonymously and even the Allies are exhausted from fighting such a massive 3 way war in RA3. Futuretech builds the Sigma Harmonizer with so much technology. The campaigns of the Uprising happen in this order (through Yuriko in, wherever it is not relevant): Soviet (the Allies back off from the Soviets after the harmonizer incident, and the Soviets begin trying to take Empire territory), Empire (Empire fight the Soviets off and wipe them out completely in the Vladivostok assault). The Allies can't let this level of Uprising go unanswered despite their weak situation and attack the Empire with what they have left. Allies win (Tatsu was playing both sides, only Kenji knew as he is the only commander we see in Empire campaign, so it explains why only Kenji flips his shit at Tatsu when he loses). Allies are spread thin and weakened, they reform into GDI to consolidate resources. The world we see in the tiberium universe is a world that is devastated from on off warfare and has beaten itself backward in technology in some areas.
Tiberium arrives in '95, the tiberium universe occurs. Kane reveals himself openly after operating from the shadows throughout all of this. Kane is immortal, I don't imagine he'd let something as silly as time travel stop him considering how open it is in the RA universe that time travel exists.
Nothing to prove this, as I said, this is just my personal head canon.
Hi, Stefan. Just came back from the first GDI mission in the remasters.
I think I want to cry.
It’s beautiful......
One sneaky chronosphere use can reconnect everything if they ever want to.
Thanks for posting this! I'm at work for 4 more hours and can't play yet... Glad to have something to listen to
6:08 Say that again! The man never aged in real life 😂😂
Speaking of Firestorm and Tiberium War, I'm really hoping that the success of this remaster means those games get remastered as well, I personally consider them the pinnacle of the series.
This is incredibly well done. Thank you for this handy timeline on C&C! :D
Awesome video Stefan I love seeing C&C lore videos and the views it pulls on your videos proves that the C&C Community lives
all i know how red alert relates to tiberium is kane is the Schrödinger's cat
Do not read below this text if you consider this a spoiler and have never seen red alert cutscenes
===============================================
if kane exist, the russian would have won the Red alert campaign and the timeline moves to tiberium dawn
If kane does not exist, the allies won and we went into the red alert 2 timeline
WHICH IS WHY to ensure the forming of NOD successfully YOU will play the Red alert campaign first to ensure soviet victory and then move on to tiberium dawn to finish the NOD campaign, if you call yourself a NOD believer
in the name of KANE
Your videos are so well put together it’s just friggen crazy!
This makes sense, since If I go check when the meteor landed in Tib wars, it was... 1995?
Yes, the meteorite hit near the Tiber river in 1995.
Oh my... Is it possible that Kane is the meteor that hits the Tiber river in 1995 and became, Tiberium
@@nooneshome8746 No. It's made pretty clear that Kane has been on earth for thousands of years prior to when the games takes place.
Kane’s the link to EVERYTHING…
Really enjoyed this, love speculating on how the timelines interact.
why on release date? I dont have time to watch yt on release date -> I play the game :D :D
I had been hoping to get this video out sooner, unfortunately I was delayed with illness. The video should go up an hour before launch, didn't want it to go live when the game is live
Vid is 1hr before cnc launch, lets hope it will fit in :)
Game says it will unlock in less than an hour for me.
nah, im watching it while my slow ass internet downloads the game.
Cheers, Stefan. Great work as always!
This cleared a lot of things up that I could never work out 20 years ago.
We really really Appreciate the work you have done! Awesome Video Man!
ps....pls do more!
0:23 I can see a Flame Tank, a F-186 Scimitar and an Orca in the reflection.
4:38 Dammit, Kane, you killed the music composer! How are we going to finish the game now?
Thanks for this video! I actually fired up the Soviet campaign first in RA1 remastered. Since i am curious how the timelines will fit in.
I am looking forward to your c&c content. Cheers!
Both of RA1's endings can potentially lead into the Tiberium universe.
It's so inveitable.
I was just having a debate about this with a friend of mine last night. We weren't sure how to explain how the altered time travel timeline could lead to both Red Alert and Tiberium timelines. This makes a lot more sense than what we were coming up with. Brilliant and succinct.
I like to think that red alert is just an alternate timeline of "what would've happened if the meteor missed earth" or even just "hey this happened after red alert"
You got to remember during the original red alert installation process. You would see quotes from Kane while waiting for it to install.
Did you know about Command & Conquer 3: Incursion
Plot: The introductory sequence showed a GDI commando in Screaming Eagle power armor[4] floating in the debris field of Philadelphia, destroyed off screen by Nod. There were a number of flashback sequences before the commando re-entered the atmosphere. The armor was melted during re-entry.[5]
GDI and Nod fought in Area 51. GDI was attempting to retrieve the remaining Screaming Eagle suit from the vaults. During the fighting, GDI inadvertently activated technology from Command & Conquer: Red Alert in one of the vaults, including a Chronosphere. A chrono vortex threw Yuri back in time. Yuri was the result of Nod's psychic experimentations and an acolyte of Kane. This would make Command & Conquer: Red Alert 2 another branch of the timeline.[4]
Not that much is known about the plot afterwards, but it is known that it included the Scrin coming to Earth, lured by the Scrin rebels stealing the Tacitus, and also CABAL as a faction of its own. The Scrin believed that Tiberium would kill off humans, but didn't account for the effect it had on some humans, the Forgotten. They were able to harness Tiberium's energies themselves, able to direct them against the Scrin, nullifying their powers or even controlling ion storms. They were supposed to be a playable faction in an expansion pack for Incursion.
Although this video was very good, the usual pseudo in-universe way of narration is just amazing. I feel like I'm watching an actual documentary and I can really submerge myself inside the universe of CnC. Anyway, can't wait for more Nod stuff. Honestly I'd be fine if you just talked about stuff about the universe you wrote yourself and are in no way canon. You're more canon than EA anyway.
I've been kicking around the idea of writing what it would be like to live in a world of Tiberium; not to cover game events, just describe the world. Did you have something like that in mind?
Thank you so much, glad you enjoyed it!
Amazing !! Thanks for the work !!
Mate I friggin love your videos.
Yeah you pretty much nailed it:
If the Allies win then it starts the Red Alert timeline.
If the Soviets win then it starts the Tiberium timeline.
Nope. Both the Red Alert and Tiberium timelines come from the Allied victory. Not only do we have former developers on record saying that is the case, but if you think through things logically, there is no way the Soviet ending could possibly lead to the Tiberium timeline as we see it in the games.
Great video as usual! I never thought about it the way you layed it out ... the AR1 Allied campaign leading to TD and the Soviet campaign leading to AR2. But it makes sense. And it feels good to somehow be able to tue these universes together. So once again, thank you for delivering such quality C&C lore related content!
JuSt been playing Remastered sooo many memories I love the real time swap from original graphics to new graphics the films clips are a bit of a miss but also glad to see that they didn't just try to get me actors and refilm them
Tbh, I think you’re pretty much spot on with this.
Kane and NOD exist in all three timelines, but at different strengths:
With the success of his puppet Stalin, Kane and NOD rise to become the power we see in Tiberiumverse.
When the Allies win, against the plans of Kane, he and the brotherhood go into hiding, watching from the shadows, seconded when Yuri gets to the new soviet premiere before Kane can, in an attempt to fix the failure of the first war.
In the primary timeline, from the shadows, Kane and brotherhood agents incite war by influencing the GLA, USA and China in a hope to reveal themselves in the aftermath.
I always assumed that the Allies victory was canon in both timelines and the divergence point was whether or not the Tiberium meteor hit Earth. No Tiberium, no TibDawn.
I believe initially in C&C3, not the one we got, Yuri was actually working for NOD in the Psy-Op division and gets knocked back in time causing a splinter timeline(RA2).
I always assumed that the Kosygin scene that Stalin was indeed flanked by Nadia and Kane. It works in both the figurative and literal sense, that Stalin is the forefront of the Soviet Union, with Nod being unassuming in the background behind Stalin. The Allied campaign was fixated on Stalin because it’s assumed in the Allied campaign and even the Soviet one that he was running the show. The Allied wouldn’t have cared for Kane because he was probably just viewed as some random Stalin lackey. It’s that in the Soviet campaign too but there’s an element of mystery and nervousness from other Soviet characters when Kane is present. It fits well with the Nod narrative that they manipulate PR too so it wouldn’t surprise me that they did it in a way that Kane can go unnoticed and be the puppet master from the shadows.
In my opinion, Soviet RA1 ending is purely for that ‘Nod controls Soviets’ revelation and didn’t happen. It may as well be Kane’s wet dream as he fondled with the Obelisk in his pants. Allied ending is the canon where Allied isn’t aware of the Nod presence and it’s all about Stalin. Kane and Nod slip away when it’s unwinnable and they’re forced underground to rebuild in the third world for decades. Allied absorbs Soviet tech and becomes GDI in response to the events of RA1, which is why GDI has Mammoths.
When Kane exists (in the Tiberium universe) there was Tiberium coming from space. But when kane didn't exist (in the Red Alert universe) there was no Tiberium coming from space. Does that mean the whole Tiberium situation was Kane's plan from the beginning? Maybe he already had contact with the Scrin before Tiberium came on earth.
I'm pretty sure Kane did have contact, he knew about Tiberium ahead of time and the Scrin knew about him, I wouldn't be surprised if he's the reason the Scrim found out about Earth
Didn't Nod have knowledge of Tiberium thousands of years in advance? IIRC, that's what Killian calims in the C&C 3 Nod intro. That would mean that Kane's meddling is the thing that brings Tiberium to Earth.
Here's a funny little thing to note: There has yet to be a Red Alert series game that plays after the first meteorite seeds Earth with Tiberium in the Tiberium Timeline. So strictly speaking, we don't know if it exists in Red Alert or not.
C&C Generals does play after it, but that game is disconnected from the rest so eh.
I am of the belief that Kane somehow tricked Nikola Tesla into signalling the Scrin and making them aware of Earth. I say this because in real life, Tesla claimed to have made contact with aliens while conducting his experiments. Now while it is almost certain, the real Nikola Tesla did not contact aliens, perhaps the C&C Tesla did. And perhaps it was a bald-headed "research assistant" that nudged his experiments in a direction that would lead to him contacting aliens. And those aliens would be none other than the Scrin, who are now aware of a juicy new planet to terraform with Tiberium.
Love your vids everything finally starts to sorta make sence
The equivalent of the kane figure in the ra2 universe is yuri, more or less.
And I think that the timeline of ally-ra and soviet-ra both could co-exist if Kane is considered a time traveller / alternate timeline shifter.
He’s “created” by the original Einstein anomaly. He created nod from the dawn of men travelling back in time (or in his original time frame).
During ra1, He saw the allied victory (and maybe ra2 and ra3 events). He went back in time and make the soviet win the war instead. He jumped forward when Tiberium showed in earth. When his plan failed, he jumped forward, to appear (bruised) to slavick during tib sun.
Then cnc3 happened, with the revised history for the final mission of tib sun. The missile launch’s purpose was to lore the scrin on earth (and the tower and so on) but it has to be done forward in time (again)
Excellent video! I have always felt that RA1 was a prequel to Tiberium Dawn even since I was a wee tot. I know the sequels afterwards make it hard and/or impossible to tie them together, but I like how you split the RA1 campaigns. I never thought of how each one leads to different universes. Maybe intentional on the developers part and maybe not, but it sure works for me!!!
If I remember correctly when you do the installation of RA1 there is a quote from Kane but I do not remember it. It's to long sens I had DOS or windows 95/98 computer to install it on.
You are correct. It's his famous command the future, conquer the past quote. They even list his name underneath the quote.
Regarding cross-universe references, the final portal in Lands of Lore 3 (high fantasy RPG series) leads to a NOD base where you meet CABAL.
The Allies ending is still canon to tiberium timeline. It has two ending brances stretching out (Three if you count the soviet ending). One leads to red alert 2 and onward the others to tiberium. Smart move by westwood it means they could make more games and stories. But just because you dont see Kane and the Brotherhood in the allied campaign does not mean they dont exist. In the tiberium branch i would think that when the soviets are on the defence and losing the war, Kane and the Brotherhood simply goes into hiding since the union have failed them. Nod needs to prepare for the coming of tiberium and remain hidden from the UN and the world. And since you also dont see Kane and the Brotherhood also it is a nice foundation for the continuation for the red alert series. So bottom line is Allies ending is canon for both series but the soviet one is not. If the soviets had won the war there would be no more UN probably and therefor no Global defence agency. Nod would have Asia and Europe in their hands and few if any would be able to truly stand up to them. So there would probably not be any tiberium war in 1995.
they were talking about setting up the Global Defense Initiative to deal with terrorist threats after the failure of the Soviet Union. In the Allied Victory. Also is that every single Red Alert game happens before 1995.
Let’s take a look at the Red Alert Chronology
Red Alert: 1946 - 1952
Red Alert 2: 1972-1975
Red Alert 3: 1986 - ??? (they don’t give any ideas in Red Alert 3 and Aftermath don’t give a good idea as how long that war lasts. Either way all of them happen before 1995
@@KaosNova2 Red Alert 3 takes place in the 1970s, just like RA2. The Third World War in RA3 replaces the Third World War fought in RA2 when Cherdenko changes the timeline.
I always considered the figure next to Nadia in that allied briefing to be Kane.
Very good.... It's really good theory.
Funny fact: I am russian, but in Red Alert 1 i always select Allies.
In Tiberian Dawn i select a GDI.
Idk, but i say that.
@60 Billion Double Dollar Man I don't care. I used crusiers to blow up a Sovet Bases
I played Red Alert first, as a kid. I just played C&C TD and holy moly.. the window transformed into a door. I had no idea that weird bald guy would become a sexy demigod. The ultimate collection is on my birthday list.
You know what mate, your subs don't add up for the quality of your videos. This is great stuff mate, keep it up.
Personally, I prefer to think that the original timeline that Einstein is from, is the Tiberium universe, or perhaps just one version of it.
As I understand, not a single one of the Red Alert games ever reached a date when reasonably Tiberium would have arrived, so it could always be looming in the distance, Kane manouvering behind the scenes, pitting world powers against eachother to both weaken them, and drive technological development as well as weapons manufacturing in an effort to better set up the Nod uprising when it comes, adapting to the changes he found himself with in this alternate timeline created by Einstein.
To be even more complicated, I actually lean to agree that the Soviet ending of Red Alert 1 is the source of what we know as the Tiberium Universe, Kane bringing about a corrupt world order where he could supply Nod cells with the tools they'll need. But then the original Einstein's universe too would need to be hit by the same asteroid, which creates (and this is the point where it goes full tinfoil hat) what I consider to be the source of the chaos of so many splitting timelines.
Why can there be multiple endings to most games? Why are there subtle differences between the balance of powers between the timelines of these endings? Why was it originally a planned point of canon that Yuri would be a creation of Kane, while also exhibiting what could be interpreted as a Kane-like agelessness (Stalin photo) and a knowledge of cloning (after Kane was known to lament his own impotence)? Two Tib timelines, one we know, one similar, but with the Tib 3 we didn't get.
The Chronosphere that launched the Red Alert and possibly Tiberium universes would still exist in the original. Couldn't it be that through events unseen, people kept abusing its power, not understanding its function, creating unseen timelines and unintentionally meddling in timelines not their own?
All in all, I think your version of the timelines is great, but I feel it's truer to Kane's nature to presume he is inevitable, and the only discrepancy is how and whether he chose to make his presence known. The closest proof of a lack of Kane's presence, is Yuri's Psychic dominator project which could have ruined Nod, but if Kane could over power CABAL, even an independent Yuri could only be spelling his own doom by connecting to every mind including Kane's.
Perhaps I'm just trying to create an alternate scenario in which the developers can just drop a hat and say "okay, C&C4 actually happened in that other timeline. What a strange spin-off, back to business." Not that it will happen.
"As I understand, not a single one of the Red Alert games ever reached a date when reasonably Tiberium would have arrived, "
If i remember right the Red Alert timeline goes into the 70´s at most. While the Asteroid hits Earth in 95. And the first Tiberium War is in the late 90´s. So a few Years later which makes sense.
"Why was it originally a planned point of canon that Yuri would be a creation of Kane, while also exhibiting what could be interpreted as a Kane-like agelessness (Stalin photo) and a knowledge of cloning (after Kane was known to lament his own impotence)? "
You know there is one thing that is a bit of a myth to me. In the "Tiberium Timeline" it is mentioned that the Death of Archduke Franz Ferdinand (cause of WWI) is done by the Black Hand in Sarajevo. Sarajevo rings quite some bells for Nod.
I always though that this is just a bit of "Propaganda" by Nod. But on the other hand. It would just be another War isntigated by Nod.
The Question of how old is Kane ...... is problematic seeing all the Myths and Propaganda around him. But then ... that is probably why i love Nod so much. So many strings leading to red herings. So many dots not conected. So many mysteriums still left untouched.
@@kaitan4160 I always thought that the Tiberium asteroid crashed more in the period of 1987-1992, on account of how far Tiberium spread and how integral it became to the world's economy by the late 90s. (87 and 92 are a bit of arbitrary dates, just roughly in that area)
As for Kane, yeah I agree that the mystery behind his origins is an important part of the mythos, and I would rather there never be a direct explanation. Still, I think without some special explanation, it should be assume Kane is part of every timeline that is connected whatsoever. Not just because I'm a bit iffy on the mechanics of an entire secret order that can manipulate the Soviet Union both existing and not, but because I was a fan of Yuri's Revenge's twist. I think the concept of world powers waging war while Kane or Yuri's just off in the background organizing their own secret plans.
I never really felt like Red Alert being related to C&C1 worked super well. Part of the unique appeal of Tiberian Dawn to me is the very "day after tomorrow" feel to it; despite gameplay conventions like the MCV, almost everything about GDI's look and feel is meant to evoke totally mundane, real-world-ish tech (M16s, Humvees, etc), whereas what makes NOD cool and interesting is that they have this mysterious, cutting-edge super-science that's visually and thematically distinct.
The world of Tiberian Dawn is also intended to feel like our world (or, at least, our world in the 1990s); the game goes to such pains in the various media broadcasts to make it feel like you're catching snippets of CNN reportage on some real-world conflict.
Learning that 50 years ago everyone was running around in time-traveling art deco battleships kind of...takes away from all that.
I agree. Part of the appeal to me was how it was based on real life tech with some fantasy sprinkled in. The only things that aren't real: MCV, Harvester, Obelisk of Light, Chemical Warrior, Recon Bike, SAM (the hiding underground part), Stealth Tank, Mammoth Tank, Ion Cannon, Orca. This is like 20% of all the things that are in game. Everything else is based on real life tech that was available back then.
kirov is real. kirov reporting
Kane is not necessarily immortal, he could simply travel through time to shape the timeline
thanks for making this vid.
Very cool video!! I love Red Alert 1 sooo much!!!!!!
But we know that in cnc, the soviet union no longer exists. We also know that a bulk of the GDI military is American (M1 abrams medium tank, A10 warthog, Humvee etc). So why would the Soviet union have collapsed if they won the war? More importantly, how does the US become such a military superpower? Especially considering that in the GDI campaign takes place in Europe, just outside of Russia, so naturally the Russians should handle the threat instead of the Americans.
NOD attacked Russia with terrorism, and The Russian Federation was a founding member of GDI as a result. Russia is a member. Also true is that General Shephard of GDI is from America, as is GDI Commado Captain Parker. Also it appears that American soldiers joined near the end of the first Red Alert, or just bad voices, but the Soldiers talking to General Stavros in the final allied ending where Stavros kills Stalin certainly sound like North American accents.
“When does Kane wear a hat?” Exactly what Kane would want you to think!
The later Red Alert were supposed to be linked to the Tiberium saga at one point, since Renegade 2 was about the Brotherhood of Nod emerging from the fallen Soviet Union after the Allies win in Red Alert 2, and Westwood's version of C&C 3 involved Yuri being a Nod agent who went sent back in time.
Generals is what happens if Einstein didn't do anything.
Way back around 2007 someone wrote a fanfic history of the C&C universe. It started with Einstein and his removal of Hitler from history. From there it went on to tell the story of Red Alert right on up through the Scrin arrival in C&C3. Of course it followed the Allied victory and subsequent GDI victories as well. I copied it over into a Word doc and even at 10pt (Times New Roman) the thing took up 48 pages! It was very well written too. If the author ever finished it, i.e. going through Kane's Wrath or even C&C4, I haven't ever seen it and I doubt I could find a copy of it online today.
Great video, and a nice set up for the timelines. I do think that the "it came from redalert" timeline can be chalked up to a branch from the timeline leading to the tiberium timeline base on the gold coloration of the unit and mix match of soviet and allied tech possibly hinting at the early days of GDI following the war like you pointed out in the video. Though as for discrepancies something I'd like to point out is the AH-64 and M1 Abrams being widely used by the allies during the 1970s conflict despite not seeing mass production and widespread use until the 80s.
for me the 2 campaigns of Red Alert lead to Tiberian Dawn. the Red Alert serie talks about alternative chronologies so we should not try to oppose "Red Alert 2" and "Tiberian Dawn". in 1996, it was the Allied campaign which was presented by Westwood as the prequel to CnC, even if it was in the Soviet campaign that Kane was exposed.
For the Tiberium universe I can accept a Soviet Victory as canon to the timeline. With a History where the 2nd World War was fought between the western nations and the Soviets ultimately ending with a Soviet victory in Europe and the signing of an Armistice, but after the victory and Stalin's murder the Union quickly begins to fall apart, European nations regain their independence and the Global Defense Initiative is created to oppose the regime.
As always, a great video. I too like your interpretation of the timeline. I can't remember exactly where I heard this, but I do remember someone from Westwood stating the Red Alert 1 is supposed to be a prequel, before RA2 threw out that idea.
Either way, can't wait for that GDI video!
What if... Yuri was the alternate version of Kane...? that is in the Red Alert timeline.
In Tiberium Wars the blue shipping containers have the allies logo on them the yellow ones GDI
Great presentation as always.
What a perfect timing, just the day of the remaster! I love your C&C related vids :)
Nice man thanks. For someone like me who loves the games but is a bit wishy washy in how i play them these kind of videos are useful and entertaining.
solid videos. keep at it
Based on how Kane looks it's possible that he's Rasputin so he was with this long before the deviations
I like to think that in the Allied RA1 campaign, the allies attacked Moscow and used the Chronosphere which, if you remember, was wildly unstable at the time (that weird vortex side effect). I would imagine that during this mission, a chrono-vortex might have simply accidentally erased Kane from reality somehow by sheer coincidence. I mean it's quite clear that Kane can't die by conventional means so an accidental erasure from time itself could work. This lead to Nod never existing and leads to the events of RA2 and so on.
In the Soviet campaign, the Allies never used the Chronosphere in Moscow, Kane was never erased and thus, we go to the existence of Nod and the Tiberium universe.