From what I am hearing, it seems like the GoE developer(s) may be stealing other mod makers assets, and if those claims are substantiated, then you absolutely should not pay for this mod lol. I don't really know enough about it to say anything for sure, but I will add this as an addendum to my review: If you're interested in playing the mod, then you should do some research and make sure you feel good about paying for it before you play. If anyone has more info about the topic feel free to add onto this comment :)
I mean they are stealing from other modders just as much as they are stealing from fromsoft, there’s a reason paid mods aren’t a thing, because when you have to pay for the mod it becomes theft of the original property for a commercial product, and I encourage anyone who bought this to distribute it to others for free, because it’s far more cringe to steal someone else’s game for your own profit even if it’s a corporation
It wouldn’t surprise me given the amount I’ve heard of the controversy, and while it may not technically be illegal since you aren’t allowed to copyright any mods you make without fromsoft’s permission it is definitely illegal to charge for a mod for a game you don’t have the rights to
A little bit more information, Garden of Eyes had also been known as sanadsk/omegafantasy who was (is? idk) a pos, and there has been plenty of drama around that name. Probably why he changed it in the first place
Garden of Eyes is a notorious grifter that had to change their online name + brand multiple times due to these claims (That are mostly true) and you absolutely should not support them.
the only issue i have with pay-to-play mods is possible issues with fromsoft's copyright, as the mod devs are making money off of from's assets. (not saying it doesn't take effort to mod tho)
Exactly this. No sane person is denying the sheer effort it takes to make a mod it's more trying our best not to step on any big corporations toes and have them start scrutinizing mods as a whole. All it takes is one large enough company being pushed too far to set the precedent and open the flood gates.
say with honesty bro, this shit is unbelievable, Miyazaki like that people mods his games, he even openly said that at one point, shit like this will make the Fromsoftware ban mods just like other companies, and they'll not be in the wrong this time, you give freedom for the fans and look how they repay you
@@Mat69420kfromsoft never had any problem with mods tho. But you should not profiting from mods since most of assets is from fromsoft works and they just added bunch of stuff on it. Though fromsoft seems doesnt mind since they didnt take any action againts it. It literally illegal, thats why a lot of company can take legal action againts something like this . But you cam avoid this legal issue using donation instead and make whatever mods you make free. Its a way to appreciate their effort. Thats why i give more respect to those modders than modders who sell their mods . But yeah i do respect fromsoft from letting them do it. They care more about community more than profit it seems. Even tho some of them doing literal illegal activity
That's what Im wondering about too. I feel like donations are a good way to make some money without the possibility of running into problems with copyright.
the part that slays me the most is that the parts he likes the least is when Garden of Eyes tries to do something actually original with the reused assets. Like when the Godskin Executioner uses a different moveset for its phase 2 than he expected, he feels *let down???* that bothers me so much
While I appreciate this overview of the mod and your general unbiased take on it I definitely think it’s hard to ignore some of the scum more stuff GOE does with his mods, including usage of AI without consent of the original voice actors, alleged theft of other modders’ assets, and the fact that it is just literally illegal to make mods behind a paywall.
Trying to be objective and shed some light, because there's a lot of misinformation. Don't take this as me blindly defending, I have my own gripes. I'll go over each separate point, the AI voice lines, modder's assets, and the legality of paywalling. There's no AI voice lines, just in-game voice lines, cut content and in the case of Miquella, that was Garden himself acting with a voice changer, funnily enough. As for other modders' assets, Seamless Co-op was packaged with the launcher, which caused a whole controversy because LukeYui clearly indicated his mod should not be packaged with other mods long before that. Garden was definitely at fault there, but he was completely shut out from the modding community afterwards, with any apologies disregarded. To be clear, it was definitely his fault and he should not have done that (whether because of ignorance or malice, doesn't matter). The repercussions were harsh, but I don't know the full context so it could definitely be justified. Other than the repackaging of Seamless Co-op to make multiplayer easier to access, there's no assets or content from other mods in GoE. And since Seamless was removed from it long ago, that is also not an issue at present time either. I don't blame anyone for not liking GoE for this, but it is something in the past. Putting a mod behind a paywall is not inherently illegal, by the way, and the EULA for the game doesn't disallow mods, paid or otherwise. What is however a legal issue is that content from previous Fromsoft titles are included. Gael, Soul of Cinder, Nameless King, Lady Maria... Even the Alonne armor and such. This is using assets from games the player doesn't necessarily own, which is against the EULA of those games. They should absolutely be removed from the mod as soon as possible. Realistically speaking this is an issue for both paid and unpaid mods, and a LOT of mods use assets from previous games.
@@BigDBrianThank you. It's been hurting my head watching all the commenters just spread misinformation. I don't like paid mods either, but it's wild to lie about the project and pretend that it's illegal because you don't like it.
Garden of Eyes used to go by Sanadsk a few years back, and was quite notorious in the Souls community for stealing other people’s findings and other scummy things.
i personally have no issue paying for this. He put in work and if he wants to charge it he can. But im very aware ok Sanadsk and i didnt know he rebranded into Garden Of Eyes hmmm
Its interesting how different convergence and GOE game design philosophy is. Convergence: players hate these aspects about the game so lets remove those!(Double fights, annoying areas, status) GOE:players hate these aspects about the game so lets double down lol!
I can't say I fully agree with Convergence's game philosophy. They should try to improve those aspects instead outright removing them. But GOE philosophy is just putting random shit without meaning or reason. It's atrocious.
@@Daevectus I didn't want it to seem like I don't like the mod, in fact I love it. Just because It's a mod It doesn't mean I can't criticize it though. I mean It's free so I can't complain too much. But I would recommend you to refrain from using "make your own" or "do it yourself" argument. It can be valuable to hear out opinions even when they don't exacly align with yours. Because otherwise It can lead to one being too self absorbed.
It's better to give them those 5$ than to give it to a thief. The difference between those who make art and just earn money is sometimes simply amazing.😂
Illegal isn't the same as BAD, though. Let's be real, we aren't all dumping our old games in order to use emulators. Mod work is hard work and deserves to be compensated, imo.
It costs just 2$ For a reason lol It's not the price for assets, it's the price for his efforts & modding skills. (Or if u think it takes no effort & knowledge for making a mod as big as GOE's then try making one for urself.
@@Dedbread608"if you don't like it make it yourself" an argument that has been used to deflect criticism of art since its inception. Maybe if he was so good at modding, he wouldn't have to flip assets and charge for them. It's scummy, no matter how you look at it.
There is stuff in this mod I want to appreciate but I just can't because of the paywall. I want to remind everyone that that's illegal. You can donate money to mod creators but they can't put a price tag on their content. And there are mods out there like Fallout London that make entirely new games but still respect the law, which really just makes GoE feel so scummy
The issue people have isn't that people don't think mod's shouldn't be paid to play, it's that it's quite literally illegal and Garden of Shite is breaking the law for what is retrospectively a janky pile of garbage
@@alexlun4464 You don't need to be a police officer to call out asshole behavior and point out it's also illegal ON TOP of that. Also it's not just "the law", it's also kind of an unwritten rule. You take someone else's work, take it down a different route and either enjoy it yourself or share it with others, slowly growing a project and improving something with other people of the community. You don't go "money now", after jankily cobbling together some stolen shit on a game you didn't make.
@dowfreak7 ... okay? But a lot of people make stuff on Patreon that breaks copyright law. I'm talking about custom pokemon art for example. Suddenly it's also illegal for them as well to get commissioned for their work?? It just baffles me how everyone suddenly cares about the law, if I didn't know better I'd say you're all being petty because someone is charging for a mod. He might be an asshole but don't sell that crap that you all care about the law lmao
@@alexlun4464 people care because he literally is stealing from the original creators and ALSO stole (allegedly) from actual small content creators. lets not give him any excuses.
@duckyduckington9736 then cry about that but don't be crying illegal 🤣 also wdym stealing from the original creators as in stealing from Fromsoftware???
The waterfowl that they use in this is one that was in vanilla but removed early on because it had no tell as to when it was happening other than remembering patterns. If I remember correctly, it happened a LOT after she did that double slash copy attack
Yep they definitely did work hard and it is just five dollars, one small problem however, it is not their IP and they are making money off of it. They also must know that what they are doing is by all definitions a crime and have decided to run that gambit. My only issue is that I see it as reckless behavior that puts the modding community as a whole at risk. Why give these suits even more reason to shut down the party and force everyone to go to their lame storefront where every mod now has a price tag. You say If you don't think it's worth paying for then don't play it or make it yourself and I can see where you're coming from but you could just as easily say you should not be getting into modding expecting any sort of financial gain but purely for the love of the game you are modding as at the end of the day it is not your IP, you are using other peoples hard work (not just game assets but even down to the years of brand building and marketing), without their permission, to enrich yourself.
No, that's not how that works. After all, you aren't paying for their mod. You're paying for their patreon. It's literally a trick that is decades old, and it's a very deliberate aspect of Patreon. You could truly never bring a case against them that stipulates that the mod is "pay to play" because it isn't, and GOE has stated that it will be free and that it's only behind their Patreon because it's a WIP. Now, whether you believe that or not is one thing, but the stated intent and the legal "loophole" (it isn't even really a loophole) are more than enough to stave off any legal issues. And, frankly, at the end of the day - Fromsoft literally doesn't care. It doesn't affect them in any way, they don't lose profits when GOE gains. The legality of this is more about how people *think* this should be illegal, but it isn't actually. It doesn't put anyone at risk. It's just a talking point used in discussions about whether GOE is regarded favourably or not. It holds no weight outside of this, and Patreon has been specifically used in this way for a multitude of IPs that are re-molded (but not enough to be considered original content) and accessible only to Patreon members. Again, it is part of why Patreon operates the way it does and it is intended. Also, I do think it's genuinely naive to expect modders to make things for free. As a modder, I delight in making mods for people who wouldn't know how to make it themselves, and I delight in making it freely accessible. However, I'd spit in the face of someone that *expects* mods to be free, as if all of the time, effort and mental energy exerted isn't worth compensation in any way. Or as if it's somehow wrong to seek compensation for a (perceived) well-made product that you know is being enjoyed. (Also, this isn't speaking to claims of more blatantly fucked up shit like the accusations of stealing content - which seems to not entirely be true? - or other nefarious things. I'm speaking specifically to this perceived issue of legality and the whole "why pay for mods!!" bit)
@barnes9211 I completely agree your hard work and efforts should be compensated so as a modder, how are you compensating the marketing team for their hard work building the brand that you are now piggybacking off of to enrich yourself, as an example? Would you be able to successfully lock your mod behind a paywall if there was no audience that others worked hard to obtain? Sure the patreon loophole has been around for a while but with the steady increase in monetisation and games as a whole gaining a larger audience how much longer until one of these mod teams is making so much money off of an IP that isn't theirs that it becomes worth a legal battle for the larger companies? How much fight do you think Patreon is going to put up once all the big boys like EA, Ubisoft, and Nintendo come knocking? They don't even have to be legally in the right, they just have to see the possible money in shutting it down and bringing it in house as worth more than what they'll spend on a drawn out legal battle. Don't get me wrong I 100% agree with the statement that modders hard work should be compensated and expecting a mod to be free is insulting but on the flip side is it not insulting to the entire team that worked on the game for years that some guy can come and make some changes to their assets and AI behaviour and slap it behind a paywall and charge your hard earned customers for access? And finally, it's one thing for you to have a place for fans of your mods to support you on their own accord, it is a whole other thing entirely to lock a mod behind a paywall. It's a whole lot harder to argue people are not paying for the content that legally isn't yours than if it was a simple donation page.
Theres dev team def effort put into the mod, but yeah, GoE adding vanilla SoC, Gael, and maria, and putting it behind paywall is not only obvious that is illegal but also crazy.
I like how they added tons of weapons that seem insanely cool, but the bad areas, bad or mediocre bosses, and fact that they paywalled it means I'll probably never play. I'll stick to Convergence and look into Reforged since I've never heard of it.
Reforged is basically "Elden Ring but without Miyazaki's refusal to fully experiment with already tried-and-true mechanics" - plus significantly more gameplay customization.
Absolutely recommend Reforged and Convergence. Personally Convergence is my favorite mod. Those devs are so talented, Convergence was incredible for DS3 and it’s incredible for Elden Ring. The GoE mod can’t hold a candle to Convergence.
@cosmic2750 I've beaten 3 different versions of Convergence and one of them, 1.4.4 I think, me and my friend went thru in Seamless and beat like 10 times with different classes and combos, it was so much fun. Me and him are currently playing through 2.1.1 in Seamless and doing a reigonlock challenge together to mess with all the new stuff and fight all the new bosses. Convergence is def my favorite mod. I've tried out Reforged since my comment and, while I think what they did is insanely cool and I AM having fun, I really don't like it nearly as much. It feels like I'm trying to unlearn everything I learned by playing Convergence, and doesn't really seem to add that much more to the game outside of the new mechanics with combat and stats. Kinda disappointing, but I'll still see it through to the end just because vanilla-ish ER is nice after all this time playing exclusively Convergence.
Even tho the mod looks really interresting, it is just illegal to charge money for a mod, and it's also morraly wrong to charge money for a redesign of already existing bosses, or in the case of Gael just stealing a boss as a whole. Edit: I am not saying that it is easy to make something like this, all i am saying is, that you shouldn't chagre money for other peoples work
Minus the illegal and unethical behavior I gotta say this mod looks and sounds like cheeks, which sucks because I was excited to play it (even if I was just gonna end up pirating it)
@@Ambre2022 It's that they are making people pay for an unofficial modification to a game that the person has already bought. The only times that mods should be PTP is if they're actual, 100% new content added onto the game, and not just a reshuffle of the game with some extra additions (like GoE) ESPECIALLY since most of the "new" stuff is just items ported form the other games and color changes.
"This mod gets me, it just knows I love this edgelord nonsense" That is the blue eye knight armor from Demon's Souls I think, it was actually in one of the Souls games for real lmfao
Also I like the Jareel fight. "A not so familiar boss." Undead King Jareel was actually a cut concept boss from Dark Souls 1 that was gonna be tied to the New Londo Ruins in some way. He was a darkwraith and had a kind of more advanced darkwraith moveset, and his grab attack lowered your level like King Allant in Demon's Souls. Not many people know of Jareel since he was never officially in the game, but his code still exists in the game's files and some mods for DS1 include make him an encounterable boss. I think it's cool to pay respect to that, even though they gave him Gael's moveset instead of his own that played with his darkwraith gimmick, but it is still cool.
@@dumpykong It definitely does give off DS 2 vibes, I think it is really cool. Also I didn't even realize you replied to me, I replied to myself because I am actively watching your video and commenting as I see things lol
The Tower of Flame feels like what a 12 year old would think is cool lol. Lava, lightning, dead dragons, tornadoes and all the random stuff they liked from DS2
GODDAMN YOU'RE RIGHT...but the Dragon Peak was well composed while this place was basically just dumping all those things into a stew lol. Nice Enki pfp btw
Man, after watching this, it made me really appreciate the Convergence that much more. Everything they add is at least an ATTEMPT at being unique and fitting for Elden Ring. It's not just hard rips of DS2 & 3 bosses or an absurd amount of effect spam. I really recommend checking out the newer content for it because it's been like 15 months since you checked it out and they've added A TON to the game including different mounts, further re-made areas, tons of new bosses, weapons, armor and armor effects and they show NO signs of slowing down.
The reason I don't like most mods like this is because it feels like they just slapped on some new visuals, added some explosions to already annoying bosses and called it a day. That's why I'd much rather do a randomizer or seamless coop. And exactly as you said, they do too much. With the convergence mod it's enough to be enjoyable and new, but this amount of effects is just dookie.
'' The thing about this mod, the Garden of Eyes mod, is that you have to pay to play it. I personally think that's totally fine'' typical response from somebody that doesn't know what consequences this could have for the entire soulsmodding community. the reason for most isn't that it costs money, its that is is illegal and can have repercussions'
This mod perfectly encapsulates why I don't bother with big mods like this for Fromsoft-games: the modmakers don't have the experience of Fromsoft and don't understand ANY of design choices behind bosses, areas, enemies, weapons etc. that make the games fantastic and you just get a bunch of "cool" bullshit that's unfun or an eyesore most of the time.
23:00 Wraithking Jareel is a reference to a cut boss from the first Dark Souls game! If i remember right, he was on the roof of a church in New Londo and got replaced with the 4 kings by the end i think
I feel like there was a mod for DS1 where you could fight Jareel in the tomb past Gwyndolin. It was teased at the start where he could be found in a cell in the Asylum.
Besides the legal issues with paid mods, I also feel like if all you did was use the assets that the game already has to put them together to create a new experience, that alone isn't enough to call it yours and start asking for money. Look at Minecraft mods, for example, those people are creating entire new assets and even systems that Vanilla could only dream about, and they are still free.
My problem with pay-to-play mods is the precedent it has the potential to set; if this mod does well enough and makes a substantial amount of money for the devs, then every single mod developer under the sun will begin paywalling their mods. It's the same reason we have so many microtransactions today, it paid off just enough back in the day that now way too many developers began cutting content just to sell it back to us!
Where this mod really sinks is that many of the new bosses are just 1 to 1 reskins of bosses we already have. Only Consort Malenia doesn’t seem to suffer from this issue, working in moves from her original moveset, Lady Maria, and various Sekiro enemies, which although we’ve technically seen it before, helps the fight feel fresh with all the new ways these moves flow together. Another mod that has a fantastic example of this is the Convergence mod with its Godskin Matriarch, who seems to blend moves from O’Rin from Sekiro, and Sister Friede from DS3
Paying for mods is not a bad idea, but when i play modded skyrim the number of mods is around 300 because of all armor and weapons, and if all mods cost even 1 dollar, its a 300 dollar purchase, which is not fun at all, knowing some devs will abandon their mods, some will just be ruined by updates and etc. Edit: Also what if you literally cant buy the mod, because the service wont let you? What do you do then?
OMG so that parry setup with the crucible knight boss was near the experience I had with the DLC Rakasha Boss with my melee build. I kept eating his spam till my brain went. "Oh right Phantom Means PC combat. That means parry." Was wonderful.
the problem with this mod isn't the content, it isn't the difficulty, and it isn't the fact it costs money to play. The EXTREMELY BIG PROBLEM with this mod is the mod team who made this mod is charging for assets THEY DO NOT OWN. If Fromsoft gets wind of this mod and they WILL eventually, this mod dev team will be LUCKY if they get off with a simple Cease and Desist order as they have been charging money for assets and IP they DO NOT OWN.
From a change to the game point of view, it seems the GoE devs were more focused on creating “epic” things, ie. plenty of callbacks to other games (“omg that’s the guy from thing!”), lots of spectacles and pseudo cutscenes (phase change stuff), and many references/inclusions and expansion on lore (Odeon = Blood star? for those who know Elden Ring and Bloodborne lore i guess).
Nothing against paid mods as long as they don't use pre-existing assets (assets from other games or other mods or what-have-you). If you use a pre-existing asset then you have to make a deal with whoever owns the asset and how large a cut do you need to give the owners of said assets (assuming you even get permission to use them). I doubt GoE has made a deal with Sony to use BB or DKS assets.
crazy move to put this mod up with Convergence and Reforged when its a heap of legal issues and slop and when the only moments you seemed to really enjoy were when you were literally just fighting DS3 bosses
If FromSoftware's copyright system is against paid mods, similar to how Microsoft is with Minecraft (when they aren't in their own store), then setting sail on the high seas for these mods shouldn’t be a problem for the modmakers either.
@Duggybud they both share Radagon as a father. Who is technically also Marika, Miquella's mother.... so does that make them half brothers or three quarter brothers?
quid pro quo is the legal term for a contract/deal. it translates to "a favor or advantage granted or expected in return for something." by selling access to the mod, even though it's a "donation" Garden of eyes is in fact going into a contract with every donator. A contract that involves selling Bandai Namco's intellectual property and assets. yeah, no judge is ever going to side with that argument. and if any of Bandai Namco's lawyers caught wind of this a cease and desist letter could be sent to terminating the mod. The mod violates Intellectual property rights and is in fact against the law.
I like the weapons, and I like the IDEA of new bosses and boss changes…but honestly the mod would have better mileage if they just put a bunch of Bloodborne and DS3 bosses into the game and called it a day. I ain’t paying 5 bucks for Elden Beast reskins.
Wait, but Rennala summoning a weak echo of Radagon is actually so peak though. It makes sense from lore, since they were married for so long, it makes sense in gameplay, since her whole deal in phase 2 is summoning help, and it makes sense as foreshadowing, getting a small taste of the final boss. This mod definitely has its problems, but it also has some killer ideas, man.
fun fact, the 1st phase gael boss is based off of a cut enemy/boss from dark souls one that is theorized to have been the original boss of New Londo ruins instead of the 4 kings. Zulie the witch goes over Jar Eel quite a bit, you should totally check up on them (sorry if people have already commented this lol)
Please let me know if im wrong, but pay to play mods dont really sound very legal? Anything that profits off of the original developers' work doesn't seem like it would be legal. I totally understand that some mods expand upon a game massively. I would happily pay to play calamity, the terraria mod. Still, wouldn't it be kinda like bootlegging to sell a mod for a game you didn't make?
The reason it’s fully legal is because you’re gaining access to the mod through patreon. So technically you aren’t paying for the mod, you’re making a donation, and that donation happens to let you play the mod. You also aren’t purchasing any sort of license, and there’s no EULA involved. I do understand what you’re saying though lol it could definitely be seen as sketchy
@dumpykong thanks for letting me know. It definitely seems a little sketchy, but im glad that the developers atleast wont bump into legal trouble about the whole thing. Ive known people who made mods for things like pokemon and were taken down by nintendo despite not selling the mod. Its better to be safe than sorry when messing with multi million dollar game development studios.
@@dumpykong Ah yes, just like just finding drugs on the ground after giving a stranger some crisp cash out of the kindness of your heart. It couldn't just "be seen" as sketchy, it 100% is.
PLEASE replay convergence. There's so many new weapons and bosses since you last played. Genuinely the best Elden Ring mod, if not one of the best mods in general.
most games dont allow modders to sell their mods, for example minecraft mods (bedrock marketplace doesnt count as mojang moderates it itself). games dont allow it because you as a modder would make a profit out of THEIR game. Yes you maybe added a lot of cool stuff but in the end you used THEIR game to make your OWN money. Im generally not against the idea of selling mods, if they have a patnership with the gamedev company behind, or at least have their agreement
Honestly, the concept behind Oedon was REALLY good (almost). Being a "Formless" God from Bloodborne, giving him that ethereal look that the Elden Beast has was a really cool direction. However... with that crazy moveset, it definitely should have been a gimmick fight. I like the idea of dodging all of those crazy flashy moves, but it would have been way better if - once reaching the end - there was some crystal that you hit to take out like... a third of his health, or something. I think the concept of dodging all of these really cool, dramatic attacks and leaning into the "rhythm" aspect of the game can be a really good move. Just... not like this. At all.
Anyone who tries to defend paying for a mod try defending it in a court case because you wouldn't win, you spent 1/100th of the time they spent on the game and then make an eigth of what they made money wise is unfair and illegal without permission from the owners.
The problem is that the modder is charging for a product using assets that aren't his own. I won't doubt that it's a well done mod, and this video is a great showing of it - but selling patented assets is illegal. As I've stated somewhere else, this is why mod pages like Nexus has donation and Subscription services.
I am not a mod player because I have a console. However, I think even if I did play with mods, I would not download this one. I think one of the main reason I love watching people tinker with mods is because of the creativity and passion it strives to show. So many youtubers can create cool challenges, you can have better visuals for roleplay experiences, and it just shows how much the community loves the game and wants to keep it alive. I don't mind paying for stuff I see as art but this just didn't do it for me. As you mentioned, a lot of the bosses had the same moves, were some of the exact same bosses just colored different, or it was just two bosses whose arenas got swapped. There is a big controversy around this mod that I discovered while doing some research after the video. It's illegal because of copyright and I heard that a lot of the ideas and assets were stolen. It's clear that they put a lot of effort into it and by no means am I saying I could ever do something cool like this mod but I just don't see the love yknow? Creating mods, creating fanart, creating forums and chatrooms are all things that keep the gaming community alive. Something as huge as a paid mod for an extremely popular game is obviously going to have a divided fanbase but even without the monetary profit, it is still kinda disappointing. You said at the beginning of the video that if we didn't want to download the mod we could make it ourself. The thing is though, that takes away the fun of it. Interacting with and exploring other people's ideas is such an amazing feeling. I can't even tell you how many times I have been in awe from someone's brilliance. If there aren't fans to creats a fandom, there isn't anyone to support and motivate devs, if there isn't anyone to motivate devs, there isn't a game. I'm proud of everyone who works hard to be involved in the community but the whole being illegal and stealing things is just shameful.😭
This is definitely one of those mods that would be fun to fight through with other people in like a seemless coop session. The amount of bullcrap the game throws at you really makes getting a friend so much more enticing and probably fun
Bad take, charging for a mod is unethical, and always wrong. You are piggy backing off of the elden ring IP for free publicity. You could take the same amount of effort and make something of your own great. Instead you're stealing publicity, assets, and work from a bigger company and pay walling because....? No good reason tbh. They literally ripped models from other games they didn't make, put it into a game they didn't make, and then charged you 5 dollars. Sorry, but you're cringe if you support them. The convergence team instead lets you enjoy their fantastic work, with a library of past mods, only asks for donations if you're enjoying it, AND they're making a studio after they're done on the ER mod. Give them 5 dollars. Not GOE dev team. Notice how I wrote this entire comment and I didn't even need to bring up the controversy. Everything I didn't bring up is just icing on the cake that is this shit situation.
i feel the big issue with paid for mods, especially this one, is theres no guarantee of quality from it being paid for since even though creators would be more incentivised to work on a mod that can support them financially, that doesnt equate to quality in any sense. i would say the fact that your experience has been so mixed with such incredible lows is proof enough that the paywall is not worth the experience, since that paywall does not provide any guarantee to you, or anyone really. not to mention various ethical/legal concerns of selling other peoples assets (other mod creators as rumored or the original elden ring developers), as well as the general precedent paid-for mods or community creations has had in the larger scheme of things (small tangent but this is the exact model dream used for the longest time, putting paywalls behind their plugins they made). i personally think that name-your-price options are more effective and the *idea* of paying to support a developer directly is a positive one, but the current space of things somewhat dampens that. regardless this was a pretty in depth showcase, and does a great job of highlighting the good and bad parts of this mod
I think the malenia change to waterfowl is what was supposed to be her phase one waterfowl but was scrapped, plus sadly I‘m pretty sure they used ai for miquella’s consort instead of hiring a voice actor, it’s just a shame
isn't it illigal to sell game assets and gain money? it is. they might get their pants taken if they continue as they are selling game assets from official games that is straight up copywrite infringement.
As much as I feel like Fromsoft has made enough money from this game and that paying $5 for a mod with all this content is a fair price, if it becomes acceptable then you might end up seeing a lot more paid mods like this, ruining what made modding so soulful, the love of the game. I don’t care about copyright or hurting fromdaddy somehow? Just that modding has always been free from people passionate about the game and this may be a precedent for modding becoming a fiscal endeavour rather than a fun project for a game you enjoy.
When Miyazaki made Demon's souls he knew he wouldn't own the rights to it but he still made Dark souls which was close enough to recognizeable but different and legally distinct to be his own IP and i wonder why these talented people behind these huge and very detailed mods don't do something similiar they could start something on Unreal engine 5 or unity and have a title out within a year and a half at the earliest if they put the same amount of effort into it, an IP that they would have full ownership of and couldn't be sued for simply charging money for.
already pirated the game, might as well pirate this too, mods shouldn't be something you pay for, unless this mod was made by todd howard then I completely understand
💀"Garden of thief" will sound more believable. We all remember that he was always a criminal and a thief. We all see that his content is a joke against the backdrop of real good mods that are created by donations and available to everyone without a special thief launcher. Stop protecting him, and start protecting those mod creato whom he once robbed in order to start his own business.
you can't exactly blame them for reusing assets, like the tree sentinel for dragonrider, creating entire movesets is hard, but porting over movesets is less hard because they already exist
so the thing about elden ring animations, aparantly it is for some reason it’s impossible to create new movesets so modders can only string together existing animations from elden ring/other fromsoft games
Yeah no I'm sorry there are too many drawbacks and tbh this seems like mod makers not learning what the devs THEMSELVES should've learned from Consort Radhan.
32:34 Oh no guys... He said the thing... Really didnt have to be the embodiment of a nerd emoji and say "guys dont pirate mods unga bunga 🤓🤓🤓". Honestly i dont really use much mods for elden ring but if this mod gets a pirated version im getting it just because you said "dont pirate it".
0:59 is that its illegal to make pay to lay mods within the elden ring licence XD also they just stole alot lolalso to put big middle finger you should put they mod for free like others XD
For those who dont know you can go in front of the fog of malenia after killing her and you can invade someone and not anyone it's "let me solo her" for me he his more difficult than malenia and after beating him you get his invocation and you can use it on every boss and he he's more powerful than mimic tear
MAYBE Convergence, but the other two are absolutely not the Big 3 of Elden Ring mods lmao Randomizer and Seamless are for SURE part of the Big 3, I guess you can throw Convergence in there because I can't really think of another one that's on the level of Randomizer and Seamless
@@dumpykong, tbh idk what you mean by same classification. Like, if you mean the Big 3 of ER overhaul mods, then sure, but they're for sure not the Big 3 of mods in general I'd probably say the overhaul mods are technically bigger than Randomizer and Seamless in terms of what all they do and change, but Randomizer and Seamless are for sure the most popular and well known mods for ER
I’m saying that convergence, goe, and reforged are all overhaul mods, and they’re the 3 biggest of that classification. Seamless co-op is a multiplayer mod so it’s not really comparable, and then the randomizer isn’t adding anything, it’s just mixing up what’s already there
Seeing them take so much from the other fromsoft games and making you pay for it just leaves a bad taste in my mouth Like not only gael and orphan getting just thrown in (they're both in my top 10 bosses ) but also they stole an entire area from ds2 and its one of the best ones in the game, i dont know if dumpy has played ds2 but he didnt mention it so im going to assume not The places where this mod shines, shines so very brightly but taking assets and bosses not only from fromsoftware but ALSO OTHER MOD CREATORS (im not entirely sure if its true ) but if it is then this mod is shit in my garden of eyes The mod creators really need to tune down their ambitions and work on the fundamentals, and then they can start adding the crazy stuff after they've fine tuned their rythm
From what I am hearing, it seems like the GoE developer(s) may be stealing other mod makers assets, and if those claims are substantiated, then you absolutely should not pay for this mod lol. I don't really know enough about it to say anything for sure, but I will add this as an addendum to my review: If you're interested in playing the mod, then you should do some research and make sure you feel good about paying for it before you play. If anyone has more info about the topic feel free to add onto this comment :)
I mean they are stealing from other modders just as much as they are stealing from fromsoft, there’s a reason paid mods aren’t a thing, because when you have to pay for the mod it becomes theft of the original property for a commercial product, and I encourage anyone who bought this to distribute it to others for free, because it’s far more cringe to steal someone else’s game for your own profit even if it’s a corporation
It wouldn’t surprise me given the amount I’ve heard of the controversy, and while it may not technically be illegal since you aren’t allowed to copyright any mods you make without fromsoft’s permission it is definitely illegal to charge for a mod for a game you don’t have the rights to
A little bit more information, Garden of Eyes had also been known as sanadsk/omegafantasy who was (is? idk) a pos, and there has been plenty of drama around that name. Probably why he changed it in the first place
Garden of Eyes is a notorious grifter that had to change their online name + brand multiple times due to these claims (That are mostly true) and you absolutely should not support them.
Why was my comment deleted and why do I keep getting notifications about this even though my comment was deleted
the only issue i have with pay-to-play mods is possible issues with fromsoft's copyright, as the mod devs are making money off of from's assets. (not saying it doesn't take effort to mod tho)
Exactly this. No sane person is denying the sheer effort it takes to make a mod it's more trying our best not to step on any big corporations toes and have them start scrutinizing mods as a whole. All it takes is one large enough company being pushed too far to set the precedent and open the flood gates.
especially mods like this that rely so heavily on franchise assets and nostalgia lol
say with honesty bro, this shit is unbelievable, Miyazaki like that people mods his games, he even openly said that at one point, shit like this will make the Fromsoftware ban mods just like other companies, and they'll not be in the wrong this time, you give freedom for the fans and look how they repay you
@@Mat69420kfromsoft never had any problem with mods tho. But you should not profiting from mods since most of assets is from fromsoft works and they just added bunch of stuff on it. Though fromsoft seems doesnt mind since they didnt take any action againts it. It literally illegal, thats why a lot of company can take legal action againts something like this
.
But you cam avoid this legal issue using donation instead and make whatever mods you make free. Its a way to appreciate their effort. Thats why i give more respect to those modders than modders who sell their mods
.
But yeah i do respect fromsoft from letting them do it. They care more about community more than profit it seems. Even tho some of them doing literal illegal activity
That's what Im wondering about too. I feel like donations are a good way to make some money without the possibility of running into problems with copyright.
It is TELLING how Dumpy's favorite moments are him fighting unaltered bosses from DS3 lmao
Honestly that makes me wish for a mod where they add bosses from DS3 with no reskins or gimmicks just to see how they feel to fight in Elden Ring
I do wish they updated the movesets to match Elden Rings Endgame roster, more combo mixups and that kinda stuff.
there's NO WAY dude i have to see this for myself
13:42 HELLLLP THATS SO FUNNY
the part that slays me the most is that the parts he likes the least is when Garden of Eyes tries to do something actually original with the reused assets. Like when the Godskin Executioner uses a different moveset for its phase 2 than he expected, he feels *let down???* that bothers me so much
While I appreciate this overview of the mod and your general unbiased take on it I definitely think it’s hard to ignore some of the scum more stuff GOE does with his mods, including usage of AI without consent of the original voice actors, alleged theft of other modders’ assets, and the fact that it is just literally illegal to make mods behind a paywall.
That is a major bummer to hear :( if those things are true then I absolutely advise against paying for this mod LOL
@@dumpykongyeah, they used other mods' assets for their own and put a pay wall without giving a cut to the original modders
Trying to be objective and shed some light, because there's a lot of misinformation. Don't take this as me blindly defending, I have my own gripes.
I'll go over each separate point, the AI voice lines, modder's assets, and the legality of paywalling.
There's no AI voice lines, just in-game voice lines, cut content and in the case of Miquella, that was Garden himself acting with a voice changer, funnily enough.
As for other modders' assets, Seamless Co-op was packaged with the launcher, which caused a whole controversy because LukeYui clearly indicated his mod should not be packaged with other mods long before that. Garden was definitely at fault there, but he was completely shut out from the modding community afterwards, with any apologies disregarded.
To be clear, it was definitely his fault and he should not have done that (whether because of ignorance or malice, doesn't matter). The repercussions were harsh, but I don't know the full context so it could definitely be justified.
Other than the repackaging of Seamless Co-op to make multiplayer easier to access, there's no assets or content from other mods in GoE. And since Seamless was removed from it long ago, that is also not an issue at present time either. I don't blame anyone for not liking GoE for this, but it is something in the past.
Putting a mod behind a paywall is not inherently illegal, by the way, and the EULA for the game doesn't disallow mods, paid or otherwise.
What is however a legal issue is that content from previous Fromsoft titles are included. Gael, Soul of Cinder, Nameless King, Lady Maria... Even the Alonne armor and such. This is using assets from games the player doesn't necessarily own, which is against the EULA of those games. They should absolutely be removed from the mod as soon as possible. Realistically speaking this is an issue for both paid and unpaid mods, and a LOT of mods use assets from previous games.
@@BigDBrianThank you. It's been hurting my head watching all the commenters just spread misinformation. I don't like paid mods either, but it's wild to lie about the project and pretend that it's illegal because you don't like it.
@@BigDBrianMost of the assets in the mod come from Elden ring itself and are simply reused. The mod legally cannot be pay 2 play based on its content.
Garden of Eyes used to go by Sanadsk a few years back, and was quite notorious in the Souls community for stealing other people’s findings and other scummy things.
i personally have no issue paying for this. He put in work and if he wants to charge it he can. But im very aware ok Sanadsk and i didnt know he rebranded into Garden Of Eyes hmmm
@@DomagojStivic the “work” he put in, according to others, was spending a couple of months taking other people’s stuff and using it for his own mod
GOE IS SANADSK????????
that's MIND blowing. I used to follow him.
@@DomagojStivic He cant, its against from software policy ,also he steal alot , less work, more steal
Its interesting how different convergence and GOE game design philosophy is.
Convergence: players hate these aspects about the game so lets remove those!(Double fights, annoying areas, status)
GOE:players hate these aspects about the game so lets double down lol!
I can't say I fully agree with Convergence's game philosophy. They should try to improve those aspects instead outright removing them. But GOE philosophy is just putting random shit without meaning or reason. It's atrocious.
This mod feels like it lacks any kind of testing and that's a really big deal when you put a mod behind a paywall.
Don't forget NPC fights with all these "invaders", literally everyone hates those, especially after Leda
@@vanjaarsic1616 convergence's "philosophy"???? It's a video game mod, if you want it done differently make your own it's not for you
@@Daevectus I didn't want it to seem like I don't like the mod, in fact I love it. Just because It's a mod It doesn't mean I can't criticize it though. I mean It's free so I can't complain too much. But I would recommend you to refrain from using "make your own" or "do it yourself" argument. It can be valuable to hear out opinions even when they don't exacly align with yours. Because otherwise It can lead to one being too self absorbed.
Convergence is so much better and more ethical and it’s free lol
It's better to give them those 5$ than to give it to a thief. The difference between those who make art and just earn money is sometimes simply amazing.😂
@@whydidiwatchthis5174 wtf ur saying?
@@Mat69420k as in giving it to the convergence mod makers is better
@@Mat69420ksaying the $5 should go to convergence instead
@@Mat69420kprobably, donation > fee
charging for a mod is literally illegal for copyright reasons
it's 5 dollars 🥸 skrblíci tvl 🤑
Yea... I'll be played it for free... they can kick rocks thinking I'm going to pay for a mod in a game I already paid for.
@shawdogamer5654 whatever helps you sleep a night man 😂
Illegal isn't the same as BAD, though. Let's be real, we aren't all dumping our old games in order to use emulators. Mod work is hard work and deserves to be compensated, imo.
@@AquaSpectrenah, it's not yours.
Imagine making a mod thats flipped assets from the developer and then having the audacity to try to charge for it lmao. Imminent cease and desist
It costs just 2$ For a reason lol
It's not the price for assets, it's the price for his efforts & modding skills. (Or if u think it takes no effort & knowledge for making a mod as big as GOE's then try making one for urself.
@@Dedbread608"if you don't like it make it yourself" an argument that has been used to deflect criticism of art since its inception. Maybe if he was so good at modding, he wouldn't have to flip assets and charge for them. It's scummy, no matter how you look at it.
@jacobash5904 looks someone's 2-3 month of efforts being sold for 2$ pricetag no matter how I look at it.
@@ec5400 I think selling your own mods is legal.
There is a difference between Drug dealer & a Engineer who's making mods for a living ✌️
@@Dedbread608yeah, you're absolutely right
The dealer deserves the money and the other doesn't
There is stuff in this mod I want to appreciate but I just can't because of the paywall. I want to remind everyone that that's illegal. You can donate money to mod creators but they can't put a price tag on their content. And there are mods out there like Fallout London that make entirely new games but still respect the law, which really just makes GoE feel so scummy
Having a patreon or a kofi is fine but mods legally speaking are not allowed to cost money
The issue people have isn't that people don't think mod's shouldn't be paid to play, it's that it's quite literally illegal and Garden of Shite is breaking the law for what is retrospectively a janky pile of garbage
Since when did we become cyber police? It's somebody else's job to seek into the legality of this not ours lol
@@alexlun4464 You don't need to be a police officer to call out asshole behavior and point out it's also illegal ON TOP of that.
Also it's not just "the law", it's also kind of an unwritten rule. You take someone else's work, take it down a different route and either enjoy it yourself or share it with others, slowly growing a project and improving something with other people of the community. You don't go "money now", after jankily cobbling together some stolen shit on a game you didn't make.
@dowfreak7 ... okay? But a lot of people make stuff on Patreon that breaks copyright law. I'm talking about custom pokemon art for example. Suddenly it's also illegal for them as well to get commissioned for their work??
It just baffles me how everyone suddenly cares about the law, if I didn't know better I'd say you're all being petty because someone is charging for a mod. He might be an asshole but don't sell that crap that you all care about the law lmao
@@alexlun4464 people care because he literally is stealing from the original creators and ALSO stole (allegedly) from actual small content creators.
lets not give him any excuses.
@duckyduckington9736 then cry about that but don't be crying illegal 🤣 also wdym stealing from the original creators as in stealing from Fromsoftware???
The waterfowl that they use in this is one that was in vanilla but removed early on because it had no tell as to when it was happening other than remembering patterns. If I remember correctly, it happened a LOT after she did that double slash copy attack
Yep they definitely did work hard and it is just five dollars, one small problem however, it is not their IP and they are making money off of it. They also must know that what they are doing is by all definitions a crime and have decided to run that gambit. My only issue is that I see it as reckless behavior that puts the modding community as a whole at risk. Why give these suits even more reason to shut down the party and force everyone to go to their lame storefront where every mod now has a price tag.
You say If you don't think it's worth paying for then don't play it or make it yourself and I can see where you're coming from but you could just as easily say you should not be getting into modding expecting any sort of financial gain but purely for the love of the game you are modding as at the end of the day it is not your IP, you are using other peoples hard work (not just game assets but even down to the years of brand building and marketing), without their permission, to enrich yourself.
No, that's not how that works. After all, you aren't paying for their mod. You're paying for their patreon. It's literally a trick that is decades old, and it's a very deliberate aspect of Patreon. You could truly never bring a case against them that stipulates that the mod is "pay to play" because it isn't, and GOE has stated that it will be free and that it's only behind their Patreon because it's a WIP. Now, whether you believe that or not is one thing, but the stated intent and the legal "loophole" (it isn't even really a loophole) are more than enough to stave off any legal issues.
And, frankly, at the end of the day - Fromsoft literally doesn't care. It doesn't affect them in any way, they don't lose profits when GOE gains. The legality of this is more about how people *think* this should be illegal, but it isn't actually. It doesn't put anyone at risk. It's just a talking point used in discussions about whether GOE is regarded favourably or not. It holds no weight outside of this, and Patreon has been specifically used in this way for a multitude of IPs that are re-molded (but not enough to be considered original content) and accessible only to Patreon members. Again, it is part of why Patreon operates the way it does and it is intended.
Also, I do think it's genuinely naive to expect modders to make things for free. As a modder, I delight in making mods for people who wouldn't know how to make it themselves, and I delight in making it freely accessible. However, I'd spit in the face of someone that *expects* mods to be free, as if all of the time, effort and mental energy exerted isn't worth compensation in any way. Or as if it's somehow wrong to seek compensation for a (perceived) well-made product that you know is being enjoyed.
(Also, this isn't speaking to claims of more blatantly fucked up shit like the accusations of stealing content - which seems to not entirely be true? - or other nefarious things. I'm speaking specifically to this perceived issue of legality and the whole "why pay for mods!!" bit)
@barnes9211 I completely agree your hard work and efforts should be compensated so as a modder, how are you compensating the marketing team for their hard work building the brand that you are now piggybacking off of to enrich yourself, as an example? Would you be able to successfully lock your mod behind a paywall if there was no audience that others worked hard to obtain? Sure the patreon loophole has been around for a while but with the steady increase in monetisation and games as a whole gaining a larger audience how much longer until one of these mod teams is making so much money off of an IP that isn't theirs that it becomes worth a legal battle for the larger companies? How much fight do you think Patreon is going to put up once all the big boys like EA, Ubisoft, and Nintendo come knocking? They don't even have to be legally in the right, they just have to see the possible money in shutting it down and bringing it in house as worth more than what they'll spend on a drawn out legal battle.
Don't get me wrong I 100% agree with the statement that modders hard work should be compensated and expecting a mod to be free is insulting but on the flip side is it not insulting to the entire team that worked on the game for years that some guy can come and make some changes to their assets and AI behaviour and slap it behind a paywall and charge your hard earned customers for access?
And finally, it's one thing for you to have a place for fans of your mods to support you on their own accord, it is a whole other thing entirely to lock a mod behind a paywall. It's a whole lot harder to argue people are not paying for the content that legally isn't yours than if it was a simple donation page.
Theres dev team def effort put into the mod, but yeah, GoE adding vanilla SoC, Gael, and maria, and putting it behind paywall is not only obvious that is illegal but also crazy.
Also so many of the lore they adding that just doesnt make sense at all, and the art direction thats doesnt fit the entire game aesthetics
Also most of the bosses are just made for cool factor without balancing at all
Garden of yikes trying to make a boss without flashbangs challenge (Impossible)
ok so any good comments about the mod or only criticism?
@@DomagojStivic It has crazy amounts of content. Can't argue with that. But for me they are mostly disappointing
It is explicitly stated in the fromsoft terms of service that it is prohibited to monetize the assets made by fromsoft
I like how they added tons of weapons that seem insanely cool, but the bad areas, bad or mediocre bosses, and fact that they paywalled it means I'll probably never play. I'll stick to Convergence and look into Reforged since I've never heard of it.
100% recommend reforged it's got some pretty stuff.
Reforged is basically "Elden Ring but without Miyazaki's refusal to fully experiment with already tried-and-true mechanics" - plus significantly more gameplay customization.
I wonder if you could pirate it.
Absolutely recommend Reforged and Convergence.
Personally Convergence is my favorite mod. Those devs are so talented, Convergence was incredible for DS3 and it’s incredible for Elden Ring. The GoE mod can’t hold a candle to Convergence.
@cosmic2750 I've beaten 3 different versions of Convergence and one of them, 1.4.4 I think, me and my friend went thru in Seamless and beat like 10 times with different classes and combos, it was so much fun. Me and him are currently playing through 2.1.1 in Seamless and doing a reigonlock challenge together to mess with all the new stuff and fight all the new bosses. Convergence is def my favorite mod.
I've tried out Reforged since my comment and, while I think what they did is insanely cool and I AM having fun, I really don't like it nearly as much. It feels like I'm trying to unlearn everything I learned by playing Convergence, and doesn't really seem to add that much more to the game outside of the new mechanics with combat and stats. Kinda disappointing, but I'll still see it through to the end just because vanilla-ish ER is nice after all this time playing exclusively Convergence.
Even tho the mod looks really interresting, it is just illegal to charge money for a mod, and it's also morraly wrong to charge money for a redesign of already existing bosses, or in the case of Gael just stealing a boss as a whole.
Edit: I am not saying that it is easy to make something like this, all i am saying is, that you shouldn't chagre money for other peoples work
yeah
Minus the illegal and unethical behavior I gotta say this mod looks and sounds like cheeks, which sucks because I was excited to play it (even if I was just gonna end up pirating it)
0:12 bro did you replace Drake's face with Epstein. 😂😂😂
That’s Drake bro wym??
@dumpykong LoL
I didn’t realize that was supposed to be drake and I really thought he just put Epstein there as a wild card
Cornball
Cornball
I thought we all agreed that pay to play mods are bad?
Why is it bad that people want yo get money for their work ?
@@Ambre2022 it’s not as simple as that
@@BigDaddy0Kev yes it is ?
yes and no. while i do think mods should, for the most part, be free, as a developer myself, i do understand people wanting to be paid for their work
@@Ambre2022 It's that they are making people pay for an unofficial modification to a game that the person has already bought. The only times that mods should be PTP is if they're actual, 100% new content added onto the game, and not just a reshuffle of the game with some extra additions (like GoE) ESPECIALLY since most of the "new" stuff is just items ported form the other games and color changes.
"This mod gets me, it just knows I love this edgelord nonsense"
That is the blue eye knight armor from Demon's Souls I think, it was actually in one of the Souls games for real lmfao
That’s so funny, I thought it was familiar, but I assumed it was a dark souls 2 lol
Also I like the Jareel fight. "A not so familiar boss." Undead King Jareel was actually a cut concept boss from Dark Souls 1 that was gonna be tied to the New Londo Ruins in some way. He was a darkwraith and had a kind of more advanced darkwraith moveset, and his grab attack lowered your level like King Allant in Demon's Souls. Not many people know of Jareel since he was never officially in the game, but his code still exists in the game's files and some mods for DS1 include make him an encounterable boss. I think it's cool to pay respect to that, even though they gave him Gael's moveset instead of his own that played with his darkwraith gimmick, but it is still cool.
@@dumpykong It definitely does give off DS 2 vibes, I think it is really cool. Also I didn't even realize you replied to me, I replied to myself because I am actively watching your video and commenting as I see things lol
The Tower of Flame feels like what a 12 year old would think is cool lol. Lava, lightning, dead dragons, tornadoes and all the random stuff they liked from DS2
Bro you are describing the dragon peak area from the dlc 😂
GODDAMN YOU'RE RIGHT...but the Dragon Peak was well composed while this place was basically just dumping all those things into a stew lol.
Nice Enki pfp btw
Man, after watching this, it made me really appreciate the Convergence that much more. Everything they add is at least an ATTEMPT at being unique and fitting for Elden Ring. It's not just hard rips of DS2 & 3 bosses or an absurd amount of effect spam. I really recommend checking out the newer content for it because it's been like 15 months since you checked it out and they've added A TON to the game including different mounts, further re-made areas, tons of new bosses, weapons, armor and armor effects and they show NO signs of slowing down.
I'm disappointed, you should have done more research, the creator of the mod is notorious for stealing assets from other modders whitout permission.
Go online and find it for free. Paying for mods is a copyright violation already so yea
Seamless co-op is the dragon ball to Convergence, Reforged, and garden of eyes's Big three
The reason I don't like most mods like this is because it feels like they just slapped on some new visuals, added some explosions to already annoying bosses and called it a day. That's why I'd much rather do a randomizer or seamless coop.
And exactly as you said, they do too much. With the convergence mod it's enough to be enjoyable and new, but this amount of effects is just dookie.
I would pay any amount of money to use Margit's cane as an actual weapon in official Elden Ring, that weapon fuels the inner druid in me
'' The thing about this mod, the Garden of Eyes mod, is that you have to pay to play it. I personally think that's totally fine''
typical response from somebody that doesn't know what consequences this could have for the entire soulsmodding community. the reason for most isn't that it costs money, its that is is illegal and can have repercussions'
This mod perfectly encapsulates why I don't bother with big mods like this for Fromsoft-games: the modmakers don't have the experience of Fromsoft and don't understand ANY of design choices behind bosses, areas, enemies, weapons etc. that make the games fantastic and you just get a bunch of "cool" bullshit that's unfun or an eyesore most of the time.
What about convergence then?
IS THAT ISAAC KRATOS
@@prettyradhandle Yes it is, made by me. A masterpiece, I know!
23:00 Wraithking Jareel is a reference to a cut boss from the first Dark Souls game! If i remember right, he was on the roof of a church in New Londo and got replaced with the 4 kings by the end i think
I feel like there was a mod for DS1 where you could fight Jareel in the tomb past Gwyndolin. It was teased at the start where he could be found in a cell in the Asylum.
@@XxExtremeSamX I think it was in Daughters of Ash.
1:10 i think you forgot that garden of eyes steals assets from other modders
Do you know if there's proof of this somewhere? I keep seeing people say this and idk what they even mean
Also, its just illegal.
@thwomp1542 i think there is, i will look into its again and find few examples
So from what i can find online he bundled seamless in his subscription.
Besides the legal issues with paid mods, I also feel like if all you did was use the assets that the game already has to put them together to create a new experience, that alone isn't enough to call it yours and start asking for money. Look at Minecraft mods, for example, those people are creating entire new assets and even systems that Vanilla could only dream about, and they are still free.
Remember the outcry of paid mods from Bethesda? When almost every one us agreed that paid mods should not be a thing? Yeah, good times.
My problem with pay-to-play mods is the precedent it has the potential to set; if this mod does well enough and makes a substantial amount of money for the devs, then every single mod developer under the sun will begin paywalling their mods. It's the same reason we have so many microtransactions today, it paid off just enough back in the day that now way too many developers began cutting content just to sell it back to us!
Where this mod really sinks is that many of the new bosses are just 1 to 1 reskins of bosses we already have. Only Consort Malenia doesn’t seem to suffer from this issue, working in moves from her original moveset, Lady Maria, and various Sekiro enemies, which although we’ve technically seen it before, helps the fight feel fresh with all the new ways these moves flow together.
Another mod that has a fantastic example of this is the Convergence mod with its Godskin Matriarch, who seems to blend moves from O’Rin from Sekiro, and Sister Friede from DS3
Paying for mods is not a bad idea, but when i play modded skyrim the number of mods is around 300 because of all armor and weapons, and if all mods cost even 1 dollar, its a 300 dollar purchase, which is not fun at all, knowing some devs will abandon their mods, some will just be ruined by updates and etc.
Edit: Also what if you literally cant buy the mod, because the service wont let you? What do you do then?
OMG so that parry setup with the crucible knight boss was near the experience I had with the DLC Rakasha Boss with my melee build. I kept eating his spam till my brain went. "Oh right Phantom Means PC combat. That means parry." Was wonderful.
the problem with this mod isn't the content, it isn't the difficulty, and it isn't the fact it costs money to play. The EXTREMELY BIG PROBLEM with this mod is the mod team who made this mod is charging for assets THEY DO NOT OWN. If Fromsoft gets wind of this mod and they WILL eventually, this mod dev team will be LUCKY if they get off with a simple Cease and Desist order as they have been charging money for assets and IP they DO NOT OWN.
From a change to the game point of view, it seems the GoE devs were more focused on creating “epic” things, ie. plenty of callbacks to other games (“omg that’s the guy from thing!”), lots of spectacles and pseudo cutscenes (phase change stuff), and many references/inclusions and expansion on lore (Odeon = Blood star? for those who know Elden Ring and Bloodborne lore i guess).
Nothing against paid mods as long as they don't use pre-existing assets (assets from other games or other mods or what-have-you). If you use a pre-existing asset then you have to make a deal with whoever owns the asset and how large a cut do you need to give the owners of said assets (assuming you even get permission to use them). I doubt GoE has made a deal with Sony to use BB or DKS assets.
That Elden Beast reskin feels like a Calamity boss
crazy move to put this mod up with Convergence and Reforged when its a heap of legal issues and slop and when the only moments you seemed to really enjoy were when you were literally just fighting DS3 bosses
Pay to play but they can’t even bother to rename the Grafted Scion 💀😭
If FromSoftware's copyright system is against paid mods, similar to how Microsoft is with Minecraft (when they aren't in their own store), then setting sail on the high seas for these mods shouldn’t be a problem for the modmakers either.
21:07 the way i was half listening and locked in at pitwos theme playing
making Melania Miquela’s consort is actually weird when you think about what consort means
So is the choice to make Radahn his consort, from non consenting older half brother to potentially consenting twin sister.
To be fair, so is making your half-brother
oh i didn’t know Radahn was his half brother, im gonna have to watch a lore video i guess
@Duggybud they both share Radagon as a father. Who is technically also Marika, Miquella's mother.... so does that make them half brothers or three quarter brothers?
@@blizzardgaming7070 half i think, but that made me think a bit haha
quid pro quo is the legal term for a contract/deal. it translates to "a favor or advantage granted or expected in return for something." by selling access to the mod, even though it's a "donation" Garden of eyes is in fact going into a contract with every donator. A contract that involves selling Bandai Namco's intellectual property and assets. yeah, no judge is ever going to side with that argument. and if any of Bandai Namco's lawyers caught wind of this a cease and desist letter could be sent to terminating the mod. The mod violates Intellectual property rights and is in fact against the law.
i'll just wait for the definitive edition then wait for the reddit hero to share the mod, meanwhile i play reforged and convergence
I like the weapons, and I like the IDEA of new bosses and boss changes…but honestly the mod would have better mileage if they just put a bunch of Bloodborne and DS3 bosses into the game and called it a day. I ain’t paying 5 bucks for Elden Beast reskins.
Wait, but Rennala summoning a weak echo of Radagon is actually so peak though. It makes sense from lore, since they were married for so long, it makes sense in gameplay, since her whole deal in phase 2 is summoning help, and it makes sense as foreshadowing, getting a small taste of the final boss. This mod definitely has its problems, but it also has some killer ideas, man.
fun fact, the 1st phase gael boss is based off of a cut enemy/boss from dark souls one that is theorized to have been the original boss of New Londo ruins instead of the 4 kings. Zulie the witch goes over Jar Eel quite a bit, you should totally check up on them (sorry if people have already commented this lol)
4:13 well tbf I did receive my accord shortly after helping her. Unironically
Please let me know if im wrong, but pay to play mods dont really sound very legal? Anything that profits off of the original developers' work doesn't seem like it would be legal. I totally understand that some mods expand upon a game massively. I would happily pay to play calamity, the terraria mod. Still, wouldn't it be kinda like bootlegging to sell a mod for a game you didn't make?
The reason it’s fully legal is because you’re gaining access to the mod through patreon. So technically you aren’t paying for the mod, you’re making a donation, and that donation happens to let you play the mod. You also aren’t purchasing any sort of license, and there’s no EULA involved. I do understand what you’re saying though lol it could definitely be seen as sketchy
@@dumpykong that just sounds like a legal loophole
@@paracame8162 also sounds like its fine to pirate that shit since it doesnt have a EULA or license🤷♂
@dumpykong thanks for letting me know. It definitely seems a little sketchy, but im glad that the developers atleast wont bump into legal trouble about the whole thing. Ive known people who made mods for things like pokemon and were taken down by nintendo despite not selling the mod. Its better to be safe than sorry when messing with multi million dollar game development studios.
@@dumpykong Ah yes, just like just finding drugs on the ground after giving a stranger some crisp cash out of the kindness of your heart.
It couldn't just "be seen" as sketchy, it 100% is.
when im in a copying boss moveset competition and my opponent is garden of eyes:
Garden of eyes got a bit too freaky for the final boss of the DLC
PLEASE replay convergence. There's so many new weapons and bosses since you last played. Genuinely the best Elden Ring mod, if not one of the best mods in general.
1:06 bruuuuuhhh
Imagine charging money to basically make a shitty boss remix in Elden Ring lmfao.
most games dont allow modders to sell their mods, for example minecraft mods (bedrock marketplace doesnt count as mojang moderates it itself). games dont allow it because you as a modder would make a profit out of THEIR game. Yes you maybe added a lot of cool stuff but in the end you used THEIR game to make your OWN money. Im generally not against the idea of selling mods, if they have a patnership with the gamedev company behind, or at least have their agreement
Honestly, the concept behind Oedon was REALLY good (almost). Being a "Formless" God from Bloodborne, giving him that ethereal look that the Elden Beast has was a really cool direction. However... with that crazy moveset, it definitely should have been a gimmick fight. I like the idea of dodging all of those crazy flashy moves, but it would have been way better if - once reaching the end - there was some crystal that you hit to take out like... a third of his health, or something. I think the concept of dodging all of these really cool, dramatic attacks and leaning into the "rhythm" aspect of the game can be a really good move. Just... not like this. At all.
I can smell my own graphics card cooking just trying to render this video. I can't imagine how bad it would be to play
Anyone who tries to defend paying for a mod try defending it in a court case because you wouldn't win, you spent 1/100th of the time they spent on the game and then make an eigth of what they made money wise is unfair and illegal without permission from the owners.
Tbh I thought the big 3 of Elden ring mods would be carian combo warriors because it's one of the biggest moveset overhauls I can think of
The problem is that the modder is charging for a product using assets that aren't his own. I won't doubt that it's a well done mod, and this video is a great showing of it - but selling patented assets is illegal. As I've stated somewhere else, this is why mod pages like Nexus has donation and Subscription services.
I am not a mod player because I have a console. However, I think even if I did play with mods, I would not download this one. I think one of the main reason I love watching people tinker with mods is because of the creativity and passion it strives to show. So many youtubers can create cool challenges, you can have better visuals for roleplay experiences, and it just shows how much the community loves the game and wants to keep it alive. I don't mind paying for stuff I see as art but this just didn't do it for me. As you mentioned, a lot of the bosses had the same moves, were some of the exact same bosses just colored different, or it was just two bosses whose arenas got swapped. There is a big controversy around this mod that I discovered while doing some research after the video. It's illegal because of copyright and I heard that a lot of the ideas and assets were stolen. It's clear that they put a lot of effort into it and by no means am I saying I could ever do something cool like this mod but I just don't see the love yknow? Creating mods, creating fanart, creating forums and chatrooms are all things that keep the gaming community alive. Something as huge as a paid mod for an extremely popular game is obviously going to have a divided fanbase but even without the monetary profit, it is still kinda disappointing. You said at the beginning of the video that if we didn't want to download the mod we could make it ourself. The thing is though, that takes away the fun of it. Interacting with and exploring other people's ideas is such an amazing feeling. I can't even tell you how many times I have been in awe from someone's brilliance. If there aren't fans to creats a fandom, there isn't anyone to support and motivate devs, if there isn't anyone to motivate devs, there isn't a game. I'm proud of everyone who works hard to be involved in the community but the whole being illegal and stealing things is just shameful.😭
Love to see you doing great on here bro and keep it up. Hope you been good since I last saw you when you graduated 😭😂
This is definitely one of those mods that would be fun to fight through with other people in like a seemless coop session. The amount of bullcrap the game throws at you really makes getting a friend so much more enticing and probably fun
Cambria is supposed to be too much cause it's like a reference to the Valkyries, I think, it looks really similar
I love how obviously you can see which assets are stolen and which ones aren’t cause of the drop in quality lmao😭
Bad take, charging for a mod is unethical, and always wrong. You are piggy backing off of the elden ring IP for free publicity. You could take the same amount of effort and make something of your own great. Instead you're stealing publicity, assets, and work from a bigger company and pay walling because....? No good reason tbh. They literally ripped models from other games they didn't make, put it into a game they didn't make, and then charged you 5 dollars. Sorry, but you're cringe if you support them.
The convergence team instead lets you enjoy their fantastic work, with a library of past mods, only asks for donations if you're enjoying it, AND they're making a studio after they're done on the ER mod. Give them 5 dollars. Not GOE dev team. Notice how I wrote this entire comment and I didn't even need to bring up the controversy. Everything I didn't bring up is just icing on the cake that is this shit situation.
12:34 literally the Valkyrie queen in god of war
When we getting a pokering 4 or pokering 1 for shadow of the erdtree
The mod hasn't been updated (and doesn't look like it will be updated at all) so I'm not sure if it'll ever be possible :(
5:00 in, the legend of Zelda music hits diff
i feel the big issue with paid for mods, especially this one, is theres no guarantee of quality from it being paid for since even though creators would be more incentivised to work on a mod that can support them financially, that doesnt equate to quality in any sense. i would say the fact that your experience has been so mixed with such incredible lows is proof enough that the paywall is not worth the experience, since that paywall does not provide any guarantee to you, or anyone really. not to mention various ethical/legal concerns of selling other peoples assets (other mod creators as rumored or the original elden ring developers), as well as the general precedent paid-for mods or community creations has had in the larger scheme of things (small tangent but this is the exact model dream used for the longest time, putting paywalls behind their plugins they made). i personally think that name-your-price options are more effective and the *idea* of paying to support a developer directly is a positive one, but the current space of things somewhat dampens that. regardless this was a pretty in depth showcase, and does a great job of highlighting the good and bad parts of this mod
I think the malenia change to waterfowl is what was supposed to be her phase one waterfowl but was scrapped, plus sadly I‘m pretty sure they used ai for miquella’s consort instead of hiring a voice actor, it’s just a shame
Fun fact throne watcher and throne defender are reference to ds1 or ds2 I believe
isn't it illigal to sell game assets and gain money? it is. they might get their pants taken if they continue as they are selling game assets from official games that is straight up copywrite infringement.
Oedon is the name of a Great One from Bloodborne's lore. We never see Oedon so i imagine they tried to give it form
As much as I feel like Fromsoft has made enough money from this game and that paying $5 for a mod with all this content is a fair price, if it becomes acceptable then you might end up seeing a lot more paid mods like this, ruining what made modding so soulful, the love of the game.
I don’t care about copyright or hurting fromdaddy somehow? Just that modding has always been free from people passionate about the game and this may be a precedent for modding becoming a fiscal endeavour rather than a fun project for a game you enjoy.
When Miyazaki made Demon's souls he knew he wouldn't own the rights to it but he still made Dark souls which was close enough to recognizeable but different and legally distinct to be his own IP and i wonder why these talented people behind these huge and very detailed mods don't do something similiar they could start something on Unreal engine 5 or unity and have a title out within a year and a half at the earliest if they put the same amount of effort into it, an IP that they would have full ownership of and couldn't be sued for simply charging money for.
already pirated the game, might as well pirate this too, mods shouldn't be something you pay for, unless this mod was made by todd howard then I completely understand
💀"Garden of thief" will sound more believable.
We all remember that he was always a criminal and a thief. We all see that his content is a joke against the backdrop of real good mods that are created by donations and available to everyone without a special thief launcher.
Stop protecting him, and start protecting those mod creato whom he once robbed in order to start his own business.
Who did they steal from?
@@thwomp1542 0:51 oh yeah I wonder who this "John soul of cinder" guy is from?
Calling GoE part of the Big Three not Reborn, or hell, even Seamless is crazy
23:26 Erdtree avatar...
you can't exactly blame them for reusing assets, like the tree sentinel for dragonrider, creating entire movesets is hard, but porting over movesets is less hard because they already exist
so the thing about elden ring animations, aparantly it is for some reason it’s impossible to create new movesets so modders can only string together existing animations from elden ring/other fromsoft games
These videos are always fun to watch. And this one doesn’t fail, well done!
Yeah no I'm sorry there are too many drawbacks and tbh this seems like mod makers not learning what the devs THEMSELVES should've learned from Consort Radhan.
This mod made me realize that ds3 bosses are just better and more memorable
i was a bit iffy on the mod being "pay to play" until i heard the saving grace, 5 dollars.
23:41. HEIDES TOWERR
OF FLAME DS2
32:34 Oh no guys... He said the thing... Really didnt have to be the embodiment of a nerd emoji and say "guys dont pirate mods unga bunga 🤓🤓🤓". Honestly i dont really use much mods for elden ring but if this mod gets a pirated version im getting it just because you said "dont pirate it".
0:59 is that its illegal to make pay to lay mods within the elden ring licence XD also they just stole alot lolalso to put big middle finger you should put they mod for free like others XD
Mods should always be free. However, i'm not against the mod devs making a donation page
For those who dont know you can go in front of the fog of malenia after killing her and you can invade someone and not anyone it's "let me solo her" for me he his more difficult than malenia and after beating him you get his invocation and you can use it on every boss and he he's more powerful than mimic tear
MAYBE Convergence, but the other two are absolutely not the Big 3 of Elden Ring mods lmao
Randomizer and Seamless are for SURE part of the Big 3, I guess you can throw Convergence in there because I can't really think of another one that's on the level of Randomizer and Seamless
Those are definitely bigger, but they’re not really the same classification
@@dumpykong, tbh idk what you mean by same classification. Like, if you mean the Big 3 of ER overhaul mods, then sure, but they're for sure not the Big 3 of mods in general
I'd probably say the overhaul mods are technically bigger than Randomizer and Seamless in terms of what all they do and change, but Randomizer and Seamless are for sure the most popular and well known mods for ER
Convergence is 100% part of the big 3. It has 1 million downloads alone. It is also the big content mod that people like the most.
I’m saying that convergence, goe, and reforged are all overhaul mods, and they’re the 3 biggest of that classification. Seamless co-op is a multiplayer mod so it’s not really comparable, and then the randomizer isn’t adding anything, it’s just mixing up what’s already there
just imagine if they remodeled the lake of rot with shrine of amana
Yeah man aint no way i pay for a damn mod
Seeing them take so much from the other fromsoft games and making you pay for it just leaves a bad taste in my mouth
Like not only gael and orphan getting just thrown in (they're both in my top 10 bosses ) but also they stole an entire area from ds2 and its one of the best ones in the game, i dont know if dumpy has played ds2 but he didnt mention it so im going to assume not
The places where this mod shines, shines so very brightly but taking assets and bosses not only from fromsoftware but ALSO OTHER MOD CREATORS (im not entirely sure if its true ) but if it is then this mod is shit in my garden of eyes
The mod creators really need to tune down their ambitions and work on the fundamentals, and then they can start adding the crazy stuff after they've fine tuned their rythm