I'm curious about Astels other grab attack, once i got grabbed while being under him despite his hands being in front, and now I really want to know what it looks like if you can!
Animator here, for anyone curious the issue at 1:00 is called gimbal lock. We bake animations at 30 or 60fps for the game, then the engine interpolates between each frame. The rotation between the two frames would be affected by either Euler or Quaternions, and breaks in certain scenarios/angles like this. The fix is fairly easy, usually changing the rotation order (xyz etc.) of the joints or adjusting the rig a bit to better suit the intended range of motion.
yes, that gimbal lock always causing a problem. also, sometimes the Rig, Animation and Hitboxes need to be done in a "wrong" way, because the "wrong" way give the Right feeling, everything is adjusted bit by bit after went through countless of brutal Testing like the wrong placement of hitboxes for example, i'm sure it was to compensate for something, like in testing scenario, the tester get unexpected jank with it, or the hit was perceived as too unfair, or it didn't react how it supposed to be. therefore the hitboxes need to be adjusted in a way that it react like how it supposed to be reacted. this is the difference between Pro devs and amateur one. amateur just set it as it's and done with it. tbh, those devs do a brilliant job, people just being way too harsh at them
@@servlet5374 They ARE the solution. If you're using quaternions for interpolation (which should be done always in any engine), you won't encounter this. Otherwise you're working with a garbage engine. I'm a game engine dev btw.
Eulers are what get locked, and quaternions solve it, but things can still go wrong with the conversion that results in the interpolation acting funky! Rotations are a rabbit hole of math haha
When I was helping players kill mohg I would sometimes be hit by blood loss in his phase change, sometimes I wouldn't. This clears it up, just don't be near the host
Happy to see you Dusty. Hope you've been enjoying Elden Ring. Thank you for the many memorable videos, they are dear experiences from my Dark Souls days. Cheers
A lot of these hitboxes that are behind the "front" of the weapon strike are to make it feel better when players try to avoid them. Radahn's arrow scatter isn't so important since it's generally fired from very far away, but with margit's knife they wanted the player to feel faster than they are, by making the animation quick, but having the hitboxes lag a little bit behind.
I think it's more to reduce the chance of thr attack getting blindspotted up close. With the speed of the daggers, it will matter at most by a single frame on dodge timing, a negligible amount. But if you're close to him and the hitbox is only on the front, it could visually pass through you without hitting.
@@BigDBrian Then why not put the hitboxes at the tip and the end, rather than the middle and the end? The logic is sound but it doesn't actually address the positioning.
Despite the tree spirits being so jank with their telegraphs and it seems like you never know where to look for attacks to come from, i think most people are very good at fighting them even before finishing the game... partly because they get thrown at you like popcorn. But i now realize, despite it being weird, i myself do actually think like "His head turns 180, so he will slap with his hand." while fighting it.
@@O0dZ-x5e true, they're not necesarily jank since they 100% work as intended they're just twisty and hard to get used to when you first fight them, after that it really is "he just raised his tail slightly to the left, he's about to use the breath attack" and that's that
the tree spirits are definitely a bit jank movement wise, but i think it fits them, honestly. they're a weird fucked up tree snake thing with flesh, of course they move weird. and their attacks are easy to dodge, so the jank doesn't ultimately affect the overall fight too much. which is true for most characters honestly
It actually does, if you're close you're unlikely to get hit. It's just so intimidating with the attack flurries that you'll want to stay away from it, which is why you get hit...
It's one of those that is programmed with the knowledge that players will try to run away in their inevitable reaction to getting suddenly hit by so many quick strikes- so if you note the character in the video sometimes is standing still and the creature just kind scoots over and around during the combo. Similarly many of Rellana's attacks will fail to combo properly if you just dodge towards her (and sometimes just running away is better than dodging- but that one requires a little more knowledge than just reacting with forward dodges)
There’s a really fascinating reason for this too: spheres, capsules, and axis-aligned bounding boxes are the cheapest things to check for collisions mathematically. Spheres in particular are so incredibly elegant, let me show you: A sphere, or circle, is defined as a point in space (3D or 2D) and a radius (how far from the center does the edge go). So to check a collision between 2 spheres or 2 circles, all we have to do is find the distance between the 2 points and then check if it’s less than the sum of their radiuses. This is incredibly intuitive, do the edges touch or overlap? We don’t need to care about their rotation or their orientation or which side is colliding, just their position and size. Using spheres lets the game spend way less time checking collisions and can gracefully handle more objects. Movement does complicate things a bit but the point remains that spheres are very simple compared to other shapes.
@@ilikeshibaAnd capsules are just the distance to the closest point of a line (the line being the straight part of the capsule). The expensive part of box overlaps is that it requires more code branching since a box has six sides. Unreal Engine fits a sphere around its boxes and does a check with it first before checking the box.
I don't think it does on the concept art. Someone naughty took some liberties on the 3D asset. In fact, the in-game look kinda sucks compared to the concept, it feels way more like a solid blob, not ethereal enough. And the feet lmao, WHY.
Always felt the Runbear hitboxes for the charging and jumping attacks were a bit larger than they should. But this is ridiculous. They turn into a wrecking ball the size of an elephant.
Something to keep in mind when looking at hitboxes in any game, is that what matters most is that the moves “feel right” when playing the game, not that the hitboxes “look right” when using debug. For example, a move might only have a tiny hitbox that lags slightly behind the weapon because the attack is very fast and difficult to react to. While on the contrary, a slow, highly telegraphed attack might have a huge hitbox that extends in front of the weapon because it’s very react-able. But then of course, there are always some hitboxes that are just janky and don’t make sense because the devs didn’t have time to polish them up.
@@VSN-wb2ly That’s the thing, what I’m saying is accuracy wouldn’t always be nice. Some hitboxes being too accurate could “feel” or “seem” wrong when playing the game. It’s similar to some principles of animations, even outside of video games, in which exaggerating some frames convey the movement better despite not being as “accurate” or technically realistic if you start looking at it frame-by-frame.
i usually dont comment on anything. but this video needs some special attention. the amount of work put into this is unbelievable. the music is great. the editing is on point. the content is explained really really good. you really did your homework on that one. thanks for the upload and keep up the good work.
In the little area of game development I work in, it is a common joke that elden ring is held together with parcel tape and twine. It is such a gargantuan game and had such a tight development cycle. It's a miracle it's only as buggy as it is.
imo Waterfowl dance is in practice possible to dodge, yes.... But its unintuitive and awful at teaching the player how to deal with it. "Oh i got caught in the blender, i should roll into her first lunge to dodge! Oh that doesnt work, i should roll to the side? No. Backwards?? No? Run away? Oh she's too close and caught me anyway..." Thankfully we have the internet to share the strange ways of the spin around her as it charges up. Or the frost pot. Or bait it out with daggers at a better range. It's such a bad attack to learn from naturally. Also if you're doing DS2 be prepared for the drones to swarm your comment section about how bad the hitboxes are despite not doing anything different than the rest of the series
It is wild that even watching the frame data wouldn't have helped that much if you were trying to figure it out on your own. The fact that the easiest way to deal with the attack involves running the hell away and then JUMPING is just not the kind of thing I would have figured out. And I didn't figure it out. I won after over a hundred attempts when she randomly forgot to do the attack for the whole fight (except the very first one that always happens, which always used up my Crimson Bubbletear Physick).
Two of the most important things in a swordfight are spacing and knowing when or when not to engage, so imo its completely natural and fits her fight perfectly. If you fall into the pitfall of relying too heavily on rolling then you miss the equally viable mechanic of literally just running away to out space an attack/using movement to dodge an attack. That's what waterfowl promotes and it's completely intuitive if you've clued into that before encountering her.
@@temphy It's not "natural" when you need to exploit her AI to confuse her by running in circles. And you cannot outrun it without either light rolling or using Bloodhound Step if she starts it up while you are in melee otherwise
Miyazaki fanboys hate DS2 even if Miyazaki himself is one of the biggest frauds to this day, with a terrible VR game and being carried by Tanimura who is the real genius behind the good games.
11:20 Mohg's nihil attack applies spEffect on player which causes him to bleed. And that big hitbox occures everytime when someone has bloodloss. It is a projectile (or bullet for modders) which applies damage buff if you have lord of blood's exultation or something else that gives buff from bloodloss (same thing have poison and scarlet rot)
I was hoping this would answer why i kept getting hit by Gaius' charge, not even necessarily just once, but twice. Maybe in the next one. Top shelf content either way
When Gaius is charging you, both the Boar's head and it's body have active hitboxes. So if you dodge through the head but run out of I-frames before exiting the body-hitbox, it can still hit you. If you're really unlucky and get hit be the very edge of the head-hitbox, you can end up getting hit again by the body as well
This happens mostly when you fail to roll through the charge. Your roll gets caught, but because Gaius is charging forward, his boar's hitbox is still clipping through you, which wouldn't normally matter as a hitbox can only hit you once, but Gaius' upper body also has a hitbox, which then makes you get hit twice.
Malenia is just too much, I always say it's not one or other thing that annoy me on her, is the whole package. Waterfowl not giving a normal opening to dodge wouldn't be bad if the damage wasn't so high. The high damage wouldn't be a problem if she didn't heal when she hit you. And healing on hit wouldn't be a problem if she didn't have an attack that can't be normally dodged.
Yeah it is odd because there is no other attack in the game that I know of where you can only dodge it with that specific process as opposed to usual rolling/blocking
You can actually dodge the entire first flurry up close by sprint jumping away from her. Even if you are recovering from a charged heavy with a colossal sword (my favorite weapon class). I found this on fextralife of all places a couple of years ago, and it's just as consistent as the strafe technique and way easier to pull off. Just run away from her as she starts the move and jump shortly after she starts the actual attack (when she actually touches the ground) and then just dodge into the last flurries as normal. This was a godsend on my level 1 run. I hope this helps
@@Jables97Unless you are next to a wall, which is not uncommon. But next to a wall no dodge against waterfowl is consistent. People defending this move and saying it is only a problem because of the rest of the boss have not challenge ran this dumpsterfire of a move. Malenia is good, waterfowl is unacceptable.
i personally like waterfowl dance. i don't know i think its annoying yes but as long as your at a distance to run from the first one its easy. and if you don't like it you can throw a frostpot and that just straight up cancels it. so i don't know i personally think malenia's the best boss in the game but then again im a masochist (/s) so maybe that's why
If you refer of the hitbox p*rn videos out there, this has an explanation. Elden Ring, same as DS3, doesn't really have hitboxes that are any better (on regard on being precise) to the ones of DS2. Yet, they feel better because they also make hitboxes unfair in your favor. Straight Swords like weapons have a Big Ball hitbox at the tip for you to hit easier, jumping disables your hitbox Lower half until floor contact, croutching greatly reduces your hitbox beyond the model, and of course, the 13 I-frames makes a great Impact. As other User pointed out, making accurate hitboxes can be quite demanding(is easier to calculate a box/Cilinder/sphere over a mesh of triangles a weapon is), so is more efficient to make a 50/50 to create an illusion of It. Of course, sometimes they exceeds and not even illusion is enough, Some grabs are the biggest example.
@@JoseViktor4099 I am just based on this video to conclude it, the Radahn's arrows are accurate, the wyvern curvesword is accurate, revanant hands are accurate,even most of Elden beast incantations are accurate, and at the same time they also decided to give most bosses grab attack that big blob hit boxes, and made Morgott's projectiles hixboxes on body instead of the tips
Worst hitboxes out of any game i've played so far. Almost every enemy in every souls game hits through walls and your swings go right through the enemy
Being realistic doesn't mean something is good, many of those are like this for balance reasons. This is a single player game first, not a competitive multiplayer fighting game.
I have over 800 hours across multiple playthroughs of Elden Ring, and boy there's definitely a few enemies that I look at with great scorn. I would love to investigate all these wild hitboxes for myself just to understand it all better. Surprised you didn't show off the Godskin Noble attacks. Also I had no idea you could parry the Draconic Tree Sentinel.
with the ulcerated treespirit you never know. sometimes he just blocks the view of my camera while he lunges at me and im like "ok im dead" and suddenly i see my character standing there, unbothered while the boss dances away
Great video my guy and thanks for including my royal revenant. Now for the dlc, here's my checklist: 1- Gaius charge attack and could you check the attack where the boar attacks with his back legs, i swear that attack has multiple hitboxes. 2- a full breakdown of Metyr attacks. 3- ghostflame dragon and his ghostflame stomps and explosions and could you compare the attack where he goes in the air then comes down full speed on you like the normal dragons, i know the attack is different but i would like to see the hitboxes. 4- bayle and his nuke and why can you jump to dodge it and even the claw when he thrusts in the ground can be jumped. 5- Putrescent knight and why you can jump over his fire attacks. 6- Promised consort and his meteor, i always dodge it at close range like dodge the first explosion then the last but i don't know how the hitbox on that attack fully works. 7- maybe you could include the curseblades, i still don't know how to dodge them to this day. 8- Golden Hippo would be nice aswell specially that attack where he spins his body then releases quills. I think that's it so i hope you help this veteran souls player ☺️
Radanh Meteor hitboxes are a tad behind his actual model, so you may rolled too early. If you wanna a consistent Dodge just move to the left/right and jump.
@@maximedaunis8292You can, but it works differently. Base Radahn spawns where your character is facing, while Consort spawns and lands based on a set grid of predetermined positions in the arena. This means depending where you stand, your run direction changes. For base radahn you always run sideways from where you character was facing when Radahn spawned in, regardless where you stand in the arena.
@@maximedaunis8292 Probably because you haven’t seen it very much. Most players see it maybe once or twice in their life, because when you are good enough to get there, you will probably kill him soon. But there is strategy required to avoid it 10 out of 10 times.
21:57 I've actually seen the attack in-game, and it was every bit as awesome. There was a consistent but precise trigger for it that I can't 100% remember, but it involves the boss performing an attack, you running out of range and then it follows up with that leap.
The funniest thing about the ulcerated tree spirits is that more often than not, you'll be fighting them in a room that's 100% too small to fight in, ending up with the player fighting blind for a solid chunk of the fight, not to mention the downright bizarre interactions that this dude has with the i-frames during a roll, one pf which actually killed me, the one in miquella's tree (which is already a damn nightmare as a melee build) where he didn't hit me, but rather pushed me off the platform since I still had i-frames. What a joke
These hitbox videos are fun and really help me understand the things I've had to just inuit when fighting bosses. Like rolling to the side for Royal Revenants to avoid the absurd dash forward attacks. Since their tracking isn't great, rolling to the side on the first attack makes the rest miss. Or Ulcerated Tree Spirits why i can just stand under them for most attacks and dodge a few that i know I've been hit by. Also the animation mistakes are hilarious to see in slow motion lol
Radahn hitboxes were changed early on to make the fight a bit easier. I wonder what his swords' hitboxes were like before and if they're like that now as a way to make the attacks easier to dodge.
To some hitboxes that seem out of place, context is important. I play a game called brawlhalla and there is a legend called artemis. It had a signature attack that was so specific that no one could hit it, until they added a very small extra hitbox. On paper it seems dumb but context it made the same signature completely op because it closed the gap from the otiginal hitbox to the player, thus always touching the hurtbox of the enemy. Now its the strongest signature attack because of 1 small bubble. Some things seem off on paper but include the hurtbox, the movesets, the effects and stuff makes more sense
The funny animation rotation issues are most likely caused by something called "gimbal lock" and their animation setup not supporting quaternion interpolation inbetween the animation keys
Watching the hitboxes makes the game look like a joke but the punchline is that all of these are slowed down footage and your reaction time is the actual joke.
8:53 the tree spriit is like interesting in particular, because for me, the excess movement is what makes this enemy so incredibly predictable. I remember REALLY struggling against this one when I first started playing, with the first one I fought being the one in the hero's grave. It took me like an HOUR to beat it, but because his moves are so excessive in showing, the bigger body and sporadic movement didn't matter. Now after a couple playthroughs, it's one of the enemies I'm most consistent in dodging purely cuz of its tells haha
Agreed. It was a bit jank at first but this miniboss is just "let it wiggle and wait for the actual sweep". Hot take: I have zero problem with that enemy.
Waterfowl was is and will always be bad. They fixed radahn's triple slash but never had the guts to fix waterfowl, an attack with no developer-intended way to avoid the first wave at close range, only weird exploits that exist through happenstance and sloppy design.
So true, and it wouldn't even be hard to do. Just increase her speed forward when she starts so if you roll through her she ends up a bit far behind you like what happens during some later parts if you roll through it.
No Radhan's slash and waterfowl work entirely differently. The entire point of waterfowl is that its a move you need to consider how to deal with beyond just spamming a medium roll. That's built around a slow and telegraphed begining that allows you to identify it easily. Its fine for what it is, it has 2 universal means of avoidance (a well timed run and jump,even from close range, and circling the first hit then rolling the next) and several optional means that make it easier to deal with(quick step, bloodhound step, light roll, a shield, indominable vow). You say there's no developer intended way purely out of your own opinion when to me running and jumping seems very intentional as a universal means of escape.
@@theresnothinghere1745 Look, you're right, but it doesn't really improve the battle. You seem to be disregarding the fact that a player doesn't go into battle already having learned how the battle works, and the methods you mentioned show that it is possible to dodge the attack, but they are still extremely difficult methods to learn. Jumping may have been very intentional for you, but I want to ask you: Did you learn this by playing the game or from a guide? And if you played the game, couldn't you say you were the exception to the rule? The jump has no indication that you can link one thing to the other. Running makes sense, but the jump is still essential for shorter distances, and the jump animation doesn't show any increase in speed, unlike Mario 64 for example, which has a clear animation with a clear increase in speed. Not to mention the fact that shields are so good, after all, Malenia regains life by hitting the shield, which is also completely ridiculous. And the other methods mentioned are very specific or even worse to learn than running + jumping, so I won't even talk about them.
@@ReinhardTristanHeydrich "You seem to be disregarding the fact that a player doesn't go into battle already having learned how the battle works" How am I disregarding it? My entire point was that the move is one that highlights the players need to experiment with mechanics to figure out how it works. " but they are still extremely difficult methods to learn." That's the point of an optional superboss. And even then I wouldn't say putting on ana sheild or an ash of war (a system intentionally designed to adjust builds at no cost) to help survive the move is 'difficult to learn'. It's only difficult to learn if you ignore the most readily available mechanics at your disposal to deal with the move. " And if you played the game, couldn't you say you were the exception to the rule?" Exceptions to jumping being a way to avoid attacks? Sure but its was a very consistent option throughout the game. A few moves out of hundreds doesn't mean jumping shouldn't be considered. "The jump has no indication that you can link one thing to the other" There's no indication that you can run and jump together? How? Running already on its own is a natural response to the attack, jumping is the fastest way of getting an increase of distance if you are just barely in reach. "Not to mention the fact that shields are so good, after all, Malenia regains life by hitting the shield, which is also completely ridiculous." Its not ridiculous at all, people who say this haven't actually tried using a shield consistently against her. Malenia regains a very small amount of health if you just block the first part of waterfowl and dodge the other 2. If you have a heavy shield the regen is a non-issue as you can out damage her healing via shield pokes. This is all alongside Malenia being one of the easisest bosses to interupt and stagger ontop of several attacks launching her, which makes it very easy to deal a lot of damage on her. "And the other methods mentioned are very specific or even worse to learn than running + jumping," Reducing your weight to lightroll (something that people have done in every game when it gets tough) is very specific? Slotting one of several possible ashes of war (which can be done at no cost) is very specific?
You should add a little watermark on some of your slowed down footage, such as the laser attack by Placidusax. You never know when a reuploader's gonna reupload. Otherwise, this is a great part 2! Hope to see more cool stuff from ya.
Wow, I had no idea you had enough I-frames to dodge placidusax's lightning bolt nuke attack. The visual lightning blasts seems to last longer than the hitbox that comes out.
Never had much trouble on tree spirits. I tend to roll AFTER the body twitch, which I guess was the right call seeing as the body was harmless this whole time. That and, well, Large Club + Crag Blade into Golden Halberd riposte (seriously, try this thing for crits, out shines too many other options!)
also highly recommend anything fire-based, since they're weak to fire. ive been playing a faith incant build recently so i have access to stuff like giants flame columns and the dlc messmer's spells, which are absurdly effective. ive been running rellana's swords with the moon and fire stance, and the fire attack just melts them. be careful with spells that take a while to cast though, since they move very quickly.
I really appreciate the fact that you aren't spoiling the dlc even now. I've played almost 300 hours of the base game but I haven't ventured into the dlc yet. I've only been playing a month though.
@cruncyart it's probably closer to 280 to be fair but I've had a lot of time on my hands recently. I'm trying to see all of the endings before I play the dlc.
i spent (wasted) 15 hours dying to that one attack and now, after dying over and over and watching countless youtube tutorials on how to dodge the waterfowl dance, i CAN dodge it consistently.
I practiced how to dodge, learned how to dodge, then months later fought her again after doing dlc. Totally forgot how to dodge, but beat her with imp summon instead 😅
The tactic I use is pretty easy, I just run when she starts up then while your running backwards jump as she comes down for the first flurry then dodge into her then you can just stand still as she just goes around you
@@northwoodsjjd8454 i use the same method lol. run away for the first flurry, dodge into her for the second flurry, and stand still for the last flurry. i like to sneak in a cheeky hit after the last flurry as well lol.
@@technocat4165 yeah ppl need to show that method instead of the spin around her when she starts up, cus the run and jump is way easier and makes the waterfowl look way less intimidating so people don’t just write it off as “oh bullshit move bullshit game I’m sending a nuke to fromsoft hq”
Ive been waiting for this video I hope it blows up man. Damn you actually did do nearly that whole list that one guy recommended in your other video too lol very nice. This is gonna help me with trying to no hit everything on top. I love this sort of stuff.
Really curious about regular tree sentinel, his shield slams (particularly the jumping one) feels like the hitbox lingers for 2 or 3 ish seconds after the actual attack.
DS2 hitboxes worrk slightly differently than in other souls games, but they are fairly consistent with themselves. It's the same for how dodge rolling works, it's weird, but consistent.
I think the hitboxes on things like Radahn's sword are curved because when you roll, they want to give you a sense of satisfaction that you dodged it, even if it was a hit that just barely missed.
I have a feeling slot of the weird hit box decisions were adjust dozens of times to dial in gameplay feel. People getting clipped while dodging and stuff
I don't know where it was, but I remember somewhere between the Magic Academy and Dectus Lift there was an Eye on a tower looking at you and applying frenzy periodically if it sees you. I wonder what that would look like. Great Video! 🙂
I must have hit that "git gud" level, since Ulcerated Tree Spirit is easy to dodge imo. That, or I'm similar to those folk that find Nameless King easy but for a different enemy. Great video!
i got consistent at fighting them after struggling a lot with the first one in hero's grave most of it is just dodging what comes after it moves or twitches
rl1 makes you an ulcerated tree spirit expert but even before that i had much less trouble reacting to its animations than most people seem to; lots of his attacks are just intuitive to dodge and he doesn't have that many. and i have trouble deciphering animations a LOT; you have NO clue how much i've gotten mad at this game because a guy going into neutral stance looked like he was about to do another attack or vice versa. i think his tail whip attack is his most bs, sometimes the very tip of the hitbox does the whole 180 juuuuust in time to rollcatch you (though i prefer jumping that one)
My problem with Astel's bite/grab is how fast it comes out once it starts coming. You have a "long" time to notice he's doing the grab, but until you learn exactly when in the animation to dodge it's almost impossible to react in time to him starting the movement forward.
6:51 it’s true. The majority of large bosses can be beaten by just standing really close to them away from their hitboxes and just dodging occasionally for wide attacks and away for AoE attacks. It’s actually really satisfying because you have to overcome the impulse to get away from them when it’s actually much safe to be close to them.
As a game dev myself, who deals with collision, it's play for how far you want the penetration. If you put the collision ball in the middle of the projectile(like with the knife), you want the projectile to half come out of the player body. If you put it in front, you don't want to show any penetration, like when it hits the ground usually, you want the tip to be what sticks to the ground. Same with swords, you want a more slashing effect, you let some of the edge geometry intersect/touch before the effect of the collision.
The hitbox spawn orbs for fire giant's first attack you demonstrated is genius. It's launching the orbs from where he begins the attack and keeping the same height, dropping them at the same interval over the full length of the attack. The reason it's doing this is to allow for the hitboxes (and the visual effects) to sync up with the terrain. This method allows the cone attack to continue to travel at the same speed the whole way, while moving down the area. It's super smart use of the spawner tool and allows the attack to be consistent regardless of where Fire Giant is in the area, while simultaneously providing the spectacle of the attack and giving clear, visually identifiable markers of where the attack is coming from and where it will be hitting next.
Omg! So glad I found your channel. Amazing content, well produced, very funny, and smart. I'm so surprised your channel isn't so much bigger. These are the kind of videos I like. Keep up the great work. Quality is easily above most other channels I see, including bigger names.
My favorite part about the ulcerated tree spirit is how they throw them into the tiniest arenas possible for a boss that moves around so much, so 90% of the fight is just him running into a wall.
Dictionary Definitions from Oxford Languages · Learn more noun a shaft sharpened at the front and with feathers or vanes at the back, shot from a bow as a weapon or for sport.
If you’re talking about the really aggressive multi armed one that doesn’t stop attacking i agree. Try hitting them with a heal spell though it pretty much half HPs them and always staggers them leaving them vulnerable to a visceral attack.
You're going to be surprised!...Ds2 has very accurate hitboxes for the most part...It just has animation glitches such as the grab interrupt not happening. If you get hit by a grab it normally interrupts what your current animation and teleports you into the grab animation like in DS1/DS3/BB/ER. However in DS2 due to a bug it lets the player animation play out before starting the grab animation. This makes the normal grab teleport being a lot more blatant and janky despite not having any effects on the grab hitboxes.
Amazing video man, seriously production quality as if you have 500k subs, you deserve even more than that amount for some content THIS good. got my sub and like.
@@ducky4605 one bullshit move is enough, even tho I saw someone beating her with a fat rolling double Soreseal Radahn build (+mimic + Rivers of Blood) as she didn't even use waterfowl.
This is what annoys me about the PCR discourse. ALL boss weapon hitboxes look massive when you show the frame data, but they swing so fast it’s fine. People think PCR has exceptionally large hitboxes, but they’re no bigger proportionally than any other sword wielding boss.
Yes, people don’t understand hitboxes. Same with people making fun of DS2 for “bad hitboxes”. What it is in that case is dodge i frames on low agility. Nothing to do with hitboxes. But you can’t blame people who have no idea how a game is made for not understanding why they took damage in certain situations.
@@tinminator8905 The problem with DS 2 Hitboxes is that they do activate at random like for example can hit you before the swing or take up the entire room in some bossfight. While in Elden ring it's not the case and hitboxes actually work as intended with only instance being Radahann before few patches that had DS 2 problem and players being hit 2 meters away or being behind his back in previous versions of the game.
@ I don’t know if you have ever taken a look at DS2s hitboxes, but I have seen them and you are just wrong. That is your “feeling”, because you have less i frames when dodging, so the attack that in other games would not have hit you with the same roll timing, will in DS2 at lower agility. This is what makes you feel like the hitbox was larger or started earlier and it is exactly what I am talking about. All fromsoft games have comparitively large hitboxes, especially on grab attacks. You just notice it way more when your dodge timing has to be more precise.
@@tinminator8905 the problem with DS2 hitboxes is that ADP is dumb It's actually super unfriendly to the player to tell them "you have I frames in this dodge roll, but the number of them is tied to a stat and also there's 0 visual representation of when the frames start and when they finish, and the game will not tell you if improving the stat gives you more beginning s or more ending s, you'll have to trial and error or load frame data to figure that out"
Problem with DS2 is also tracking and active hitbox timing, some attacks hit you on the wind up and some last way way more than the actual hit. Maybe having 4 enemies flailing around automatically tracking your character with impacts that seem to happen randomly, WHILE having less immunity on rolls is a problem, and will have people thinking the game is bs.
I like to call it Game Realism. Its like how even the most realistic house in a game is not realistic. If it was, it will feel wrong. The rooms will feel too constricting, doors arches and windows will feel too small and it will feel either too empty or too cluttered. If the hitboxes were actually realistic, the fighting would not be as smooth or fun as it is. Itd feel much more clunky. Like Kingdom Come Deliverance. Much more realistic fighting system and the way you get hit is realistic (source did full contact martial arts, got hit many times) but it doesn't feel as immediately good to use. I had more game overs in that game from fights than in DS2 and DS3 combined
The issue in 1:16 is unintentional, but is normal. The twist is actually happening in between frames so the animation if perfectly capped at 30 or 60 fps, the animator or gamer won't see it.
there's at least a dozen different ways to deal with waterfowl, which are mostly more intuitive than spinning around her. The most intuitive way without a shield is to watch your positioning and run and jump away from the first flurry.
@@windflier1684 You can always try to interrupt her waterfowl dance. If you are close to a wall it is you fault as game already makes it clear with revenants and falling star beasts that having space and positioning yourself during the fight is important. Her arena is bigger than those I mentioned combined with plenty of space.
@@jimmyjohnjoejr There aren't a dozen, but there are more than just rolling around her. Immunible shield or whatever the ash is called that makes you invincable, inflicting status to stagger her, using quick/bloodhound step to get behind her while she charges up easier and to give a larger opening to dodge the rest with the increased distance from bloodhounds step, just keeping distance so she never gets up in your face in the first place (good luck.) I'm sure there is more if you pick the attack apart.
This video is to everyone responding with "skill issue" or "git gud" when people say things like "that didnt hit me" or "these are some bullshit hitboxes". Im suprised and a littls ashasmed that theyn cant make more accurate hitboxes. I was right all along then, some weapons did clearly not hit me, because the weapon visuals and hitboxes doesnt even always match....
It gets worse in the DLC. Some bosses do 100s of particle effects at the same time, covering the entire arena but only 10 or so have actual hitbox. But good luck figuring which one's which.
Tbh ER doesn't NEED as much jank to be bs, since they've made every attack to be a half screen 32 hit spinning combo with a cancel frame trap at the end.
Great video, can’t wait for the ds2 vid, everyone hates on it but the weapon hit boxes, while bigger than usual, I see as more of a fair experience. Mono3000 made a vid proving ds2 actually has really good hitboxes aside from a few, praying you don’t give ds2 haters more fuel. 🙏🏽😂
I don't mind it actually now that I understand how to dodge it and I can appreciate the idea it's a move you having to strategize around as your dealing with everything else. Reminds me of a suped up manus wombo combo BUT! I think it's kinda bullshit to figure out on your own! It's one of the few moves you can't dodge roll and it may not be very obvious that you literally have to run away from that first huge volley like a big AOE would. I know on my first playthrough had to look up what to do. It's just not sight readable for such a punishing attack and that just leads to frustration. Only reason I enjoy it now was after hours of fighting her in co-op and solo play.
personally, the only problem is the first flurry, which is mega super unintuitive on how to dodge the second one can be dodged by dodging towards her and the third one is just walking towards her (or dodging into her again) it's the first one that makes that attack so horrible
I don't understand why people don't understand that an optional superboss hidden behind 2 secret areas is allowed to have a move that's not easily solved by pressing the circle button at the right time.
@@pizzadastiro1434 That's how literally every other enemy in the game works, though... And this is coming from someone who's beaten Malenia multiple times. Waterfowl is just extremely unintuitive, that's why people hate it.
@@pizzadastiro1434 'it's supposed to be hard so it's OK if it's badly designed and horribly unintuitive' galaxy brain game design take you have there. Literally the difficulty dickriding I'm talking about
Im 3D Artist and animator and the fact that they do those weird rotations happens sometime in blender, called Euler discontinuity, is hard to explain but the rotations are controlled by curves, and if some of that curves on X, Y or Z its not smooth the axis jumps to another point of the initial rotation. More easier to explain is sometimes bones cant do 360° spins. and if the animation is in the edge of 359° jumps to the 0° and do all the rotation to match the curve animation.
Anything I missed that you wanted to see?
Does Godskin Noble's rolly-polly move look entertaining in hitbox form, or is it what we'd expect?
@ Yep that one is pretty standard circle hitbox
Messmer but dlc will be one day right?
I'm curious about Astels other grab attack, once i got grabbed while being under him despite his hands being in front, and now I really want to know what it looks like if you can!
Godrick's flame tornado that he throws. I can almost always dodge the first one but the 2nd one I struggle with.
okay but why was it so satisfying watching those radahn arrows stab into their own hit boxes
Could this be THE Aydiar on Spotify? What’s up dude 😊
*radahn* ^🔍
@@Babe1Babe2all good bro, crazy busy but yet to miss a vid! so cool to see the channel getting some well deserved success !
Autism?
“You are the cheapest, jankest thing in this game.”
This is the most motivational sentence I’ve ever heard.
Animator here, for anyone curious the issue at 1:00 is called gimbal lock. We bake animations at 30 or 60fps for the game, then the engine interpolates between each frame. The rotation between the two frames would be affected by either Euler or Quaternions, and breaks in certain scenarios/angles like this. The fix is fairly easy, usually changing the rotation order (xyz etc.) of the joints or adjusting the rig a bit to better suit the intended range of motion.
yes, that gimbal lock always causing a problem.
also, sometimes the Rig, Animation and Hitboxes need to be done in a "wrong" way,
because the "wrong" way give the Right feeling,
everything is adjusted bit by bit after went through countless of brutal Testing
like the wrong placement of hitboxes for example, i'm sure it was to compensate for something,
like in testing scenario, the tester get unexpected jank with it, or the hit was perceived as too unfair,
or it didn't react how it supposed to be.
therefore the hitboxes need to be adjusted in a way that it react like how it supposed to be reacted.
this is the difference between Pro devs and amateur one.
amateur just set it as it's and done with it.
tbh, those devs do a brilliant job, people just being way too harsh at them
I always thought quaternions were the solution to gimbal locks. Thanks for the insight!
@@servlet5374 They ARE the solution. If you're using quaternions for interpolation (which should be done always in any engine), you won't encounter this.
Otherwise you're working with a garbage engine.
I'm a game engine dev btw.
Eulers are what get locked, and quaternions solve it, but things can still go wrong with the conversion that results in the interpolation acting funky! Rotations are a rabbit hole of math haha
@@nikosmusic What things could go wrong though? For all rotations quaternion interpolations are perfectly predictable.
no dlc spoilers even 4 months later. I respect tf outta that my man.
When I was helping players kill mohg I would sometimes be hit by blood loss in his phase change, sometimes I wouldn't. This clears it up, just don't be near the host
HE LIVES!!!
I'm sorry, you probably get that a lot...
ayyy
That makes a lot of sense, my friend thought it was his lag making him not get hit lol
Happy to see you Dusty. Hope you've been enjoying Elden Ring. Thank you for the many memorable videos, they are dear experiences from my Dark Souls days. Cheers
129-30
A lot of these hitboxes that are behind the "front" of the weapon strike are to make it feel better when players try to avoid them. Radahn's arrow scatter isn't so important since it's generally fired from very far away, but with margit's knife they wanted the player to feel faster than they are, by making the animation quick, but having the hitboxes lag a little bit behind.
I think it's more to reduce the chance of thr attack getting blindspotted up close. With the speed of the daggers, it will matter at most by a single frame on dodge timing, a negligible amount. But if you're close to him and the hitbox is only on the front, it could visually pass through you without hitting.
@@BigDBrian Then why not put the hitboxes at the tip and the end, rather than the middle and the end? The logic is sound but it doesn't actually address the positioning.
imo it's like in celeste how you can still execute a jump the split second after you fall off a ledge
True, but it's inconsistent in it's application and sometimes ends up having the reverse effect
@@HEADSHOTPROLOL That's why I'm talking about a specific attack, and not the game as a whole.
Despite the tree spirits being so jank with their telegraphs and it seems like you never know where to look for attacks to come from, i think most people are very good at fighting them even before finishing the game... partly because they get thrown at you like popcorn. But i now realize, despite it being weird, i myself do actually think like "His head turns 180, so he will slap with his hand." while fighting it.
Zero percent jank. Easiest enemy to dodge in this game. Much to criticize even about tree spirits, dodging them isn’t one.
@@O0dZ-x5e true, they're not necesarily jank since they 100% work as intended they're just twisty and hard to get used to when you first fight them, after that it really is "he just raised his tail slightly to the left, he's about to use the breath attack" and that's that
the tree spirits are definitely a bit jank movement wise, but i think it fits them, honestly. they're a weird fucked up tree snake thing with flesh, of course they move weird. and their attacks are easy to dodge, so the jank doesn't ultimately affect the overall fight too much. which is true for most characters honestly
They're only a problem if they scale higher than you, or especially in ng cycles.
But idk, I always roll forward left. It just works 🤷🏿♀️
When I am not rusty, they never hit me. Its literally just nonsubstance enemy.
"This enemy has has a hard time sticking to the player" ...you wanna say that to my face!?
It actually does, if you're close you're unlikely to get hit. It's just so intimidating with the attack flurries that you'll want to stay away from it, which is why you get hit...
It's one of those that is programmed with the knowledge that players will try to run away in their inevitable reaction to getting suddenly hit by so many quick strikes- so if you note the character in the video sometimes is standing still and the creature just kind scoots over and around during the combo.
Similarly many of Rellana's attacks will fail to combo properly if you just dodge towards her (and sometimes just running away is better than dodging- but that one requires a little more knowledge than just reacting with forward dodges)
@@MLWJ1993This feels like you described every enemy in the game.
They all just flail around wildly.
I love that the indicator for parrying frames had a name tag “Get Parried” 😂
The frames with the player's death animation should be named "Get Good". That would be some cheeky Fromsoft easter egg.
Ackchually 🤓☝️ it's likely just a programming related name.
Like to communicate "the variable 'parried' returned true".
This video had no business being this fun
My favorite part about hitboxes is that they're actually spheres
There’s a really fascinating reason for this too: spheres, capsules, and axis-aligned bounding boxes are the cheapest things to check for collisions mathematically. Spheres in particular are so incredibly elegant, let me show you:
A sphere, or circle, is defined as a point in space (3D or 2D) and a radius (how far from the center does the edge go). So to check a collision between 2 spheres or 2 circles, all we have to do is find the distance between the 2 points and then check if it’s less than the sum of their radiuses. This is incredibly intuitive, do the edges touch or overlap? We don’t need to care about their rotation or their orientation or which side is colliding, just their position and size.
Using spheres lets the game spend way less time checking collisions and can gracefully handle more objects. Movement does complicate things a bit but the point remains that spheres are very simple compared to other shapes.
@ilikeshiba sick info dump bro.
@@ilikeshiba Interesting.
@@ilikeshiba I, too, like Shiba and I also like this explanation.
@@ilikeshibaAnd capsules are just the distance to the closest point of a line (the line being the straight part of the capsule). The expensive part of box overlaps is that it requires more code branching since a box has six sides. Unreal Engine fits a sphere around its boxes and does a check with it first before checking the box.
You don't have to ask Miyazaki why would the giant blob slug-like God has feet.
I don't think it does on the concept art. Someone naughty took some liberties on the 3D asset.
In fact, the in-game look kinda sucks compared to the concept, it feels way more like a solid blob, not ethereal enough. And the feet lmao, WHY.
Might be an animation trick. Figuring out where the centre mass is is easier for something with humanoid proportions than something fantastical.
Always felt the Runbear hitboxes for the charging and jumping attacks were a bit larger than they should. But this is ridiculous. They turn into a wrecking ball the size of an elephant.
Something to keep in mind when looking at hitboxes in any game, is that what matters most is that the moves “feel right” when playing the game, not that the hitboxes “look right” when using debug.
For example, a move might only have a tiny hitbox that lags slightly behind the weapon because the attack is very fast and difficult to react to.
While on the contrary, a slow, highly telegraphed attack might have a huge hitbox that extends in front of the weapon because it’s very react-able.
But then of course, there are always some hitboxes that are just janky and don’t make sense because the devs didn’t have time to polish them up.
Agreed. Feel and perceived fairness are more important than actual accuracy.
@ascended8174 You must not play many fighting games…
Actual accuracy would be nice but it requires time and, money.
@@VSN-wb2ly That’s the thing, what I’m saying is accuracy wouldn’t always be nice. Some hitboxes being too accurate could “feel” or “seem” wrong when playing the game.
It’s similar to some principles of animations, even outside of video games, in which exaggerating some frames convey the movement better despite not being as “accurate” or technically realistic if you start looking at it frame-by-frame.
@@VSN-wb2lyI think you’re missed the point entirely
i usually dont comment on anything. but this video needs some special attention. the amount of work put into this is unbelievable. the music is great. the editing is on point. the content is explained really really good. you really did your homework on that one. thanks for the upload and keep up the good work.
There's a very good material for those curious about game development, even if the script sounds so much like chat gpt.
In the little area of game development I work in, it is a common joke that elden ring is held together with parcel tape and twine.
It is such a gargantuan game and had such a tight development cycle. It's a miracle it's only as buggy as it is.
imo Waterfowl dance is in practice possible to dodge, yes....
But its unintuitive and awful at teaching the player how to deal with it.
"Oh i got caught in the blender, i should roll into her first lunge to dodge! Oh that doesnt work, i should roll to the side? No. Backwards?? No? Run away? Oh she's too close and caught me anyway..."
Thankfully we have the internet to share the strange ways of the spin around her as it charges up. Or the frost pot. Or bait it out with daggers at a better range. It's such a bad attack to learn from naturally.
Also if you're doing DS2 be prepared for the drones to swarm your comment section about how bad the hitboxes are despite not doing anything different than the rest of the series
It is wild that even watching the frame data wouldn't have helped that much if you were trying to figure it out on your own. The fact that the easiest way to deal with the attack involves running the hell away and then JUMPING is just not the kind of thing I would have figured out. And I didn't figure it out. I won after over a hundred attempts when she randomly forgot to do the attack for the whole fight (except the very first one that always happens, which always used up my Crimson Bubbletear Physick).
Two of the most important things in a swordfight are spacing and knowing when or when not to engage, so imo its completely natural and fits her fight perfectly.
If you fall into the pitfall of relying too heavily on rolling then you miss the equally viable mechanic of literally just running away to out space an attack/using movement to dodge an attack. That's what waterfowl promotes and it's completely intuitive if you've clued into that before encountering her.
@@temphy It's not "natural" when you need to exploit her AI to confuse her by running in circles. And you cannot outrun it without either light rolling or using Bloodhound Step if she starts it up while you are in melee otherwise
Itd be nice if people actually acknowledged the flaws of these games instead of brushing it off, it helps to improve the next games
Miyazaki fanboys hate DS2 even if Miyazaki himself is one of the biggest frauds to this day, with a terrible VR game and being carried by Tanimura who is the real genius behind the good games.
11:20 Mohg's nihil attack applies spEffect on player which causes him to bleed. And that big hitbox occures everytime when someone has bloodloss. It is a projectile (or bullet for modders) which applies damage buff if you have lord of blood's exultation or something else that gives buff from bloodloss (same thing have poison and scarlet rot)
I was hoping this would answer why i kept getting hit by Gaius' charge, not even necessarily just once, but twice.
Maybe in the next one.
Top shelf content either way
When Gaius is charging you, both the Boar's head and it's body have active hitboxes. So if you dodge through the head but run out of I-frames before exiting the body-hitbox, it can still hit you.
If you're really unlucky and get hit be the very edge of the head-hitbox, you can end up getting hit again by the body as well
This happens mostly when you fail to roll through the charge. Your roll gets caught, but because Gaius is charging forward, his boar's hitbox is still clipping through you, which wouldn't normally matter as a hitbox can only hit you once, but Gaius' upper body also has a hitbox, which then makes you get hit twice.
Malenia is just too much, I always say it's not one or other thing that annoy me on her, is the whole package.
Waterfowl not giving a normal opening to dodge wouldn't be bad if the damage wasn't so high.
The high damage wouldn't be a problem if she didn't heal when she hit you.
And healing on hit wouldn't be a problem if she didn't have an attack that can't be normally dodged.
Yeah it is odd because there is no other attack in the game that I know of where you can only dodge it with that specific process as opposed to usual rolling/blocking
You can actually dodge the entire first flurry up close by sprint jumping away from her. Even if you are recovering from a charged heavy with a colossal sword (my favorite weapon class). I found this on fextralife of all places a couple of years ago, and it's just as consistent as the strafe technique and way easier to pull off. Just run away from her as she starts the move and jump shortly after she starts the actual attack (when she actually touches the ground) and then just dodge into the last flurries as normal. This was a godsend on my level 1 run. I hope this helps
@@Jables97Unless you are next to a wall, which is not uncommon. But next to a wall no dodge against waterfowl is consistent. People defending this move and saying it is only a problem because of the rest of the boss have not challenge ran this dumpsterfire of a move. Malenia is good, waterfowl is unacceptable.
i personally like waterfowl dance. i don't know i think its annoying yes but as long as your at a distance to run from the first one its easy. and if you don't like it you can throw a frostpot and that just straight up cancels it. so i don't know i personally think malenia's the best boss in the game but then again im a masochist (/s) so maybe that's why
Yet much like anything else, it has a way to counter it (albeit a weird and counter-intuitive one)
Elden Ring has the most accurate hitboxes and most ridiculous hitboxes simultaneously...
If you refer of the hitbox p*rn videos out there, this has an explanation.
Elden Ring, same as DS3, doesn't really have hitboxes that are any better (on regard on being precise) to the ones of DS2. Yet, they feel better because they also make hitboxes unfair in your favor.
Straight Swords like weapons have a Big Ball hitbox at the tip for you to hit easier, jumping disables your hitbox Lower half until floor contact, croutching greatly reduces your hitbox beyond the model, and of course, the 13 I-frames makes a great Impact.
As other User pointed out, making accurate hitboxes can be quite demanding(is easier to calculate a box/Cilinder/sphere over a mesh of triangles a weapon is), so is more efficient to make a 50/50 to create an illusion of It. Of course, sometimes they exceeds and not even illusion is enough, Some grabs are the biggest example.
Jamie pull up the cleanrot gugs comparison
@@JoseViktor4099 I am just based on this video to conclude it, the Radahn's arrows are accurate, the wyvern curvesword is accurate, revanant hands are accurate,even most of Elden beast incantations are accurate, and at the same time they also decided to give most bosses grab attack that big blob hit boxes, and made Morgott's projectiles hixboxes on body instead of the tips
Worst hitboxes out of any game i've played so far. Almost every enemy in every souls game hits through walls and your swings go right through the enemy
Being realistic doesn't mean something is good, many of those are like this for balance reasons. This is a single player game first, not a competitive multiplayer fighting game.
I have over 800 hours across multiple playthroughs of Elden Ring, and boy there's definitely a few enemies that I look at with great scorn. I would love to investigate all these wild hitboxes for myself just to understand it all better. Surprised you didn't show off the Godskin Noble attacks. Also I had no idea you could parry the Draconic Tree Sentinel.
with the ulcerated treespirit you never know. sometimes he just blocks the view of my camera while he lunges at me and im like "ok im dead" and suddenly i see my character standing there, unbothered while the boss dances away
Great video my guy and thanks for including my royal revenant. Now for the dlc, here's my checklist: 1- Gaius charge attack and could you check the attack where the boar attacks with his back legs, i swear that attack has multiple hitboxes. 2- a full breakdown of Metyr attacks. 3- ghostflame dragon and his ghostflame stomps and explosions and could you compare the attack where he goes in the air then comes down full speed on you like the normal dragons, i know the attack is different but i would like to see the hitboxes. 4- bayle and his nuke and why can you jump to dodge it and even the claw when he thrusts in the ground can be jumped. 5- Putrescent knight and why you can jump over his fire attacks. 6- Promised consort and his meteor, i always dodge it at close range like dodge the first explosion then the last but i don't know how the hitbox on that attack fully works. 7- maybe you could include the curseblades, i still don't know how to dodge them to this day. 8- Golden Hippo would be nice aswell specially that attack where he spins his body then releases quills. I think that's it so i hope you help this veteran souls player ☺️
I don't understand the issue with mohgdan's meteor, it's like radahn's meteor in second phase i think, you can just run and avoid it ?
Radanh Meteor hitboxes are a tad behind his actual model, so you may rolled too early. If you wanna a consistent Dodge just move to the left/right and jump.
@@maximedaunis8292You can, but it works differently. Base Radahn spawns where your character is facing, while Consort spawns and lands based on a set grid of predetermined positions in the arena. This means depending where you stand, your run direction changes. For base radahn you always run sideways from where you character was facing when Radahn spawned in, regardless where you stand in the arena.
@@tinminator8905 I don't know, of all mohgdan's attacks that's the only one that never touched me
@@maximedaunis8292 Probably because you haven’t seen it very much. Most players see it maybe once or twice in their life, because when you are good enough to get there, you will probably kill him soon. But there is strategy required to avoid it 10 out of 10 times.
21:57 I've actually seen the attack in-game, and it was every bit as awesome. There was a consistent but precise trigger for it that I can't 100% remember, but it involves the boss performing an attack, you running out of range and then it follows up with that leap.
15:31 melee Marth is blushing
13:27 Dont worry, Babe; it's wonderful! We'll put it up on the refrigerator for your father to see when he gets home
Midir: IMA FIRIN MAH LAZOR!
Placidusax: rookie numbers
The funniest thing about the ulcerated tree spirits is that more often than not, you'll be fighting them in a room that's 100% too small to fight in, ending up with the player fighting blind for a solid chunk of the fight, not to mention the downright bizarre interactions that this dude has with the i-frames during a roll, one pf which actually killed me, the one in miquella's tree (which is already a damn nightmare as a melee build) where he didn't hit me, but rather pushed me off the platform since I still had i-frames. What a joke
These hitbox videos are fun and really help me understand the things I've had to just inuit when fighting bosses. Like rolling to the side for Royal Revenants to avoid the absurd dash forward attacks. Since their tracking isn't great, rolling to the side on the first attack makes the rest miss. Or Ulcerated Tree Spirits why i can just stand under them for most attacks and dodge a few that i know I've been hit by.
Also the animation mistakes are hilarious to see in slow motion lol
Radahn hitboxes were changed early on to make the fight a bit easier. I wonder what his swords' hitboxes were like before and if they're like that now as a way to make the attacks easier to dodge.
When he first mentioned Radahan I thought that's what he'll be talking about
I am a game developer and a fromsoft fan. This breakdown video is so important for designing good combat in games. Keep up the good work mate!
Thx man! Appreciate support from the dev community
02:49 excuse me??
That made me sub
@@HeliumHeliosme too lol never seen him before but he seems funny
To some hitboxes that seem out of place, context is important. I play a game called brawlhalla and there is a legend called artemis. It had a signature attack that was so specific that no one could hit it, until they added a very small extra hitbox. On paper it seems dumb but context it made the same signature completely op because it closed the gap from the otiginal hitbox to the player, thus always touching the hurtbox of the enemy. Now its the strongest signature attack because of 1 small bubble. Some things seem off on paper but include the hurtbox, the movesets, the effects and stuff makes more sense
The funny animation rotation issues are most likely caused by something called "gimbal lock" and their animation setup not supporting quaternion interpolation inbetween the animation keys
Those are certainly words
Watching the hitboxes makes the game look like a joke but the punchline is that all of these are slowed down footage and your reaction time is the actual joke.
bruh what? the hitboxes wont change depending on speed
@@BusinessSkrub ah i see ty
Ds3 with the sulyvhans beast, that thing just seems like every part of it is a hitbox all the time.
20:30 quick reminder that "this" could be performed with bare hands in DS3
8:53 the tree spriit is like interesting in particular, because for me, the excess movement is what makes this enemy so incredibly predictable.
I remember REALLY struggling against this one when I first started playing, with the first one I fought being the one in the hero's grave.
It took me like an HOUR to beat it, but because his moves are so excessive in showing, the bigger body and sporadic movement didn't matter.
Now after a couple playthroughs, it's one of the enemies I'm most consistent in dodging purely cuz of its tells haha
Agreed. It was a bit jank at first but this miniboss is just "let it wiggle and wait for the actual sweep". Hot take: I have zero problem with that enemy.
It’s possible that the hitboxes change to scale with progression, Margit being an early game fight having a more forgiving hitbox on his projectile.
Waterfowl was is and will always be bad. They fixed radahn's triple slash but never had the guts to fix waterfowl, an attack with no developer-intended way to avoid the first wave at close range, only weird exploits that exist through happenstance and sloppy design.
So true, and it wouldn't even be hard to do. Just increase her speed forward when she starts so if you roll through her she ends up a bit far behind you like what happens during some later parts if you roll through it.
simply don't be near her when she's about to do it
No Radhan's slash and waterfowl work entirely differently.
The entire point of waterfowl is that its a move you need to consider how to deal with beyond just spamming a medium roll.
That's built around a slow and telegraphed begining that allows you to identify it easily.
Its fine for what it is, it has 2 universal means of avoidance (a well timed run and jump,even from close range, and circling the first hit then rolling the next) and several optional means that make it easier to deal with(quick step, bloodhound step, light roll, a shield, indominable vow).
You say there's no developer intended way purely out of your own opinion when to me running and jumping seems very intentional as a universal means of escape.
@@theresnothinghere1745
Look, you're right, but it doesn't really improve the battle. You seem to be disregarding the fact that a player doesn't go into battle already having learned how the battle works, and the methods you mentioned show that it is possible to dodge the attack, but they are still extremely difficult methods to learn.
Jumping may have been very intentional for you, but I want to ask you: Did you learn this by playing the game or from a guide? And if you played the game, couldn't you say you were the exception to the rule?
The jump has no indication that you can link one thing to the other. Running makes sense, but the jump is still essential for shorter distances, and the jump animation doesn't show any increase in speed, unlike Mario 64 for example, which has a clear animation with a clear increase in speed.
Not to mention the fact that shields are so good, after all, Malenia regains life by hitting the shield, which is also completely ridiculous.
And the other methods mentioned are very specific or even worse to learn than running + jumping, so I won't even talk about them.
@@ReinhardTristanHeydrich "You seem to be disregarding the fact that a player doesn't go into battle already having learned how the battle works"
How am I disregarding it?
My entire point was that the move is one that highlights the players need to experiment with mechanics to figure out how it works.
" but they are still extremely difficult methods to learn."
That's the point of an optional superboss.
And even then I wouldn't say putting on ana sheild or an ash of war (a system intentionally designed to adjust builds at no cost) to help survive the move is 'difficult to learn'.
It's only difficult to learn if you ignore the most readily available mechanics at your disposal to deal with the move.
" And if you played the game, couldn't you say you were the exception to the rule?"
Exceptions to jumping being a way to avoid attacks?
Sure but its was a very consistent option throughout the game.
A few moves out of hundreds doesn't mean jumping shouldn't be considered.
"The jump has no indication that you can link one thing to the other"
There's no indication that you can run and jump together?
How?
Running already on its own is a natural response to the attack, jumping is the fastest way of getting an increase of distance if you are just barely in reach.
"Not to mention the fact that shields are so good, after all, Malenia regains life by hitting the shield, which is also completely ridiculous."
Its not ridiculous at all, people who say this haven't actually tried using a shield consistently against her.
Malenia regains a very small amount of health if you just block the first part of waterfowl and dodge the other 2.
If you have a heavy shield the regen is a non-issue as you can out damage her healing via shield pokes.
This is all alongside Malenia being one of the easisest bosses to interupt and stagger ontop of several attacks launching her, which makes it very easy to deal a lot of damage on her.
"And the other methods mentioned are very specific or even worse to learn than running + jumping,"
Reducing your weight to lightroll (something that people have done in every game when it gets tough) is very specific?
Slotting one of several possible ashes of war (which can be done at no cost) is very specific?
You should add a little watermark on some of your slowed down footage, such as the laser attack by Placidusax. You never know when a reuploader's gonna reupload.
Otherwise, this is a great part 2! Hope to see more cool stuff from ya.
3:40 that horse gettin a good huff of that Ra-Dank fr fr.
Wow, I had no idea you had enough I-frames to dodge placidusax's lightning bolt nuke attack. The visual lightning blasts seems to last longer than the hitbox that comes out.
Never had much trouble on tree spirits. I tend to roll AFTER the body twitch, which I guess was the right call seeing as the body was harmless this whole time. That and, well, Large Club + Crag Blade into Golden Halberd riposte (seriously, try this thing for crits, out shines too many other options!)
also highly recommend anything fire-based, since they're weak to fire. ive been playing a faith incant build recently so i have access to stuff like giants flame columns and the dlc messmer's spells, which are absurdly effective. ive been running rellana's swords with the moon and fire stance, and the fire attack just melts them.
be careful with spells that take a while to cast though, since they move very quickly.
I really appreciate the fact that you aren't spoiling the dlc even now. I've played almost 300 hours of the base game but I haven't ventured into the dlc yet. I've only been playing a month though.
300 hours in one month??? that's 10 hours a day???
@cruncyart it's probably closer to 280 to be fair but I've had a lot of time on my hands recently. I'm trying to see all of the endings before I play the dlc.
This serie is telling me how I can prove I don't have skill issues and don't have to get good. A win is a win
Imagine you kill radagon, but then the elden beast doesn't even fight you, he just shames your dex bleed build and leaves
@@hesmycat as he flies off you get a miquella-style unique death screen that says YOU SUCK instead of YOU DIED
@@hesmycat Well it's not like a bleed build would make Radagon/Beast any easier, given their bleed immunity.
12:32 OSAKER SPOTTED !!!
To this day I still can't consistently avoid waterfowl dance. Every time i fight her I HAVE to bring vow of the indomitable
i spent (wasted) 15 hours dying to that one attack and now, after dying over and over and watching countless youtube tutorials on how to dodge the waterfowl dance, i CAN dodge it consistently.
I practiced how to dodge, learned how to dodge, then months later fought her again after doing dlc.
Totally forgot how to dodge, but beat her with imp summon instead 😅
The tactic I use is pretty easy, I just run when she starts up then while your running backwards jump as she comes down for the first flurry then dodge into her then you can just stand still as she just goes around you
@@northwoodsjjd8454 i use the same method lol. run away for the first flurry, dodge into her for the second flurry, and stand still for the last flurry. i like to sneak in a cheeky hit after the last flurry as well lol.
@@technocat4165 yeah ppl need to show that method instead of the spin around her when she starts up, cus the run and jump is way easier and makes the waterfowl look way less intimidating so people don’t just write it off as “oh bullshit move bullshit game I’m sending a nuke to fromsoft hq”
Ive been waiting for this video I hope it blows up man. Damn you actually did do nearly that whole list that one guy recommended in your other video too lol very nice. This is gonna help me with trying to no hit everything on top. I love this sort of stuff.
"Skill issue"
The skill issue:
Really curious about regular tree sentinel, his shield slams (particularly the jumping one) feels like the hitbox lingers for 2 or 3 ish seconds after the actual attack.
I'm glad you're doing more of these hitbox videos, and I can only imagine the jank you'll find in DS2! XD
Fun fact: majority of ds2 hitboxes are accurate. Watch Domo3000 and you'll see how small they're.
It's already been done. And trust me it's not what you would expect
Elden ring is worse
Ds2 did hitboxes well
DS2 hitboxes worrk slightly differently than in other souls games, but they are fairly consistent with themselves. It's the same for how dodge rolling works, it's weird, but consistent.
I think the hitboxes on things like Radahn's sword are curved because when you roll, they want to give you a sense of satisfaction that you dodged it, even if it was a hit that just barely missed.
25:44 Here, a comment
I have a feeling slot of the weird hit box decisions were adjust dozens of times to dial in gameplay feel. People getting clipped while dodging and stuff
Dark Souls 2 lets goooooo
Did you know that Radhan and Headless Vengarl share some animations? Its crazy.
so refreshing to find a good smaller channel. instant support.
21:05 That explain why I never was able to roll to the side of that :3
This is really the only attack in the game I gave up trying to dodge. I always just block it with serpent hunter for chip damage.
I don't know where it was, but I remember somewhere between the Magic Academy and Dectus Lift there was an Eye on a tower looking at you and applying frenzy periodically if it sees you. I wonder what that would look like. Great Video! 🙂
I must have hit that "git gud" level, since Ulcerated Tree Spirit is easy to dodge imo. That, or I'm similar to those folk that find Nameless King easy but for a different enemy.
Great video!
it is easy to dodge, you just roll for any big movement that comes your way.
i got consistent at fighting them after struggling a lot with the first one in hero's grave
most of it is just dodging what comes after it moves or twitches
rl1 makes you an ulcerated tree spirit expert but even before that i had much less trouble reacting to its animations than most people seem to; lots of his attacks are just intuitive to dodge and he doesn't have that many. and i have trouble deciphering animations a LOT; you have NO clue how much i've gotten mad at this game because a guy going into neutral stance looked like he was about to do another attack or vice versa. i think his tail whip attack is his most bs, sometimes the very tip of the hitbox does the whole 180 juuuuust in time to rollcatch you (though i prefer jumping that one)
My problem with Astel's bite/grab is how fast it comes out once it starts coming. You have a "long" time to notice he's doing the grab, but until you learn exactly when in the animation to dodge it's almost impossible to react in time to him starting the movement forward.
We all knew Radahn was the sweatiest try-hard in the game.
6:51 it’s true. The majority of large bosses can be beaten by just standing really close to them away from their hitboxes and just dodging occasionally for wide attacks and away for AoE attacks. It’s actually really satisfying because you have to overcome the impulse to get away from them when it’s actually much safe to be close to them.
oooh I've been waiting for this one!
As a game dev myself, who deals with collision, it's play for how far you want the penetration.
If you put the collision ball in the middle of the projectile(like with the knife), you want the projectile to half come out of the player body.
If you put it in front, you don't want to show any penetration, like when it hits the ground usually, you want the tip to be what sticks to the ground.
Same with swords, you want a more slashing effect, you let some of the edge geometry intersect/touch before the effect of the collision.
The hitbox spawn orbs for fire giant's first attack you demonstrated is genius.
It's launching the orbs from where he begins the attack and keeping the same height, dropping them at the same interval over the full length of the attack. The reason it's doing this is to allow for the hitboxes (and the visual effects) to sync up with the terrain. This method allows the cone attack to continue to travel at the same speed the whole way, while moving down the area.
It's super smart use of the spawner tool and allows the attack to be consistent regardless of where Fire Giant is in the area, while simultaneously providing the spectacle of the attack and giving clear, visually identifiable markers of where the attack is coming from and where it will be hitting next.
🗣🗣🗣"explain this vodka" (3:45)
Omg! So glad I found your channel. Amazing content, well produced, very funny, and smart. I'm so surprised your channel isn't so much bigger. These are the kind of videos I like. Keep up the great work.
Quality is easily above most other channels I see, including bigger names.
Calling margits' stick a sword, calling the sword a dagger and calling the throwing daggers arrows makes me want to punch my wall
My favorite part about the ulcerated tree spirit is how they throw them into the tiniest arenas possible for a boss that moves around so much, so 90% of the fight is just him running into a wall.
10:08 brother... That's not an arrow
Dictionary
Definitions from Oxford Languages · Learn more
noun
a shaft sharpened at the front and with feathers or vanes at the back, shot from a bow as a weapon or for sport.
Anything can be an arrow if youre determined enough I say!
>watches video
>suddenly feels the urge to level up vigor
astel isn't that annoying to hit as a melee player, there are clear times where it's really easy to hit his head just don't go under him.
i think its the teleporting thats the issue, really. its kind of annoying to have to run across the arena because he decided to dip
The editing is so fun! Love the meme sound effects and the commentary. Really great stuff!
whoever decided to make revenants behave like they do should be on the street straight up.
If you’re talking about the really aggressive multi armed one that doesn’t stop attacking i agree. Try hitting them with a heal spell though it pretty much half HPs them and always staggers them leaving them vulnerable to a visceral attack.
Well you see when a general and his horse love each other very much
the video feels like it has joke per minute quota
Yeah five min in im just sitting here like😐
Remember, for all these bosses YOU were their final boss.
“It’s worse than you think” while the thumbnail is showing amazing hitboxes
thw hipocresy of souls fans, if it was ds2 they would be saying the hitboxes are broken
@ ds2 is a masterpiece in its own right, rivaling the greats of gaming. But Fromsoftware topped it 6 times with 6 even better games
My man, thank you for sharing this! I don't have any formal training or education in game dev and this opened my eyes on how to implement hit boxes!
Seriously beautiful work mate! Love the vibe and the detailed breakdowns are so yummy.
Legit looking forward to DS2
You're going to be surprised!...Ds2 has very accurate hitboxes for the most part...It just has animation glitches such as the grab interrupt not happening.
If you get hit by a grab it normally interrupts what your current animation and teleports you into the grab animation like in DS1/DS3/BB/ER. However in DS2 due to a bug it lets the player animation play out before starting the grab animation. This makes the normal grab teleport being a lot more blatant and janky despite not having any effects on the grab hitboxes.
Amazing video man, seriously production quality as if you have 500k subs, you deserve even more than that amount for some content THIS good. got my sub and like.
Yeah so Malenia is just the most genuine example of “bullshit” in a souls boss.
Yeah, the 3rd part of Waterfowl has literally infinite range which is completely unheard of for a melee attack.
you mean just *Malenia's Waterfowl* cuz from what I'm seeing everything else hit box wise is fine.
@@ducky4605 one bullshit move is enough, even tho I saw someone beating her with a fat rolling double Soreseal Radahn build (+mimic + Rivers of Blood) as she didn't even use waterfowl.
Such a great video, love the smooth narrative style
This is what annoys me about the PCR discourse. ALL boss weapon hitboxes look massive when you show the frame data, but they swing so fast it’s fine. People think PCR has exceptionally large hitboxes, but they’re no bigger proportionally than any other sword wielding boss.
Yes, people don’t understand hitboxes. Same with people making fun of DS2 for “bad hitboxes”. What it is in that case is dodge i frames on low agility. Nothing to do with hitboxes. But you can’t blame people who have no idea how a game is made for not understanding why they took damage in certain situations.
@@tinminator8905 The problem with DS 2 Hitboxes is that they do activate at random like for example can hit you before the swing or take up the entire room in some bossfight.
While in Elden ring it's not the case and hitboxes actually work as intended with only instance being Radahann before few patches that had DS 2 problem and players being hit 2 meters away or being behind his back in previous versions of the game.
@ I don’t know if you have ever taken a look at DS2s hitboxes, but I have seen them and you are just wrong. That is your “feeling”, because you have less i frames when dodging, so the attack that in other games would not have hit you with the same roll timing, will in DS2 at lower agility. This is what makes you feel like the hitbox was larger or started earlier and it is exactly what I am talking about. All fromsoft games have comparitively large hitboxes, especially on grab attacks. You just notice it way more when your dodge timing has to be more precise.
@@tinminator8905 the problem with DS2 hitboxes is that ADP is dumb
It's actually super unfriendly to the player to tell them "you have I frames in this dodge roll, but the number of them is tied to a stat and also there's 0 visual representation of when the frames start and when they finish, and the game will not tell you if improving the stat gives you more beginning s or more ending s, you'll have to trial and error or load frame data to figure that out"
Problem with DS2 is also tracking and active hitbox timing, some attacks hit you on the wind up and some last way way more than the actual hit. Maybe having 4 enemies flailing around automatically tracking your character with impacts that seem to happen randomly, WHILE having less immunity on rolls is a problem, and will have people thinking the game is bs.
I think that, for most of this stuff, the oddities come from fine tuning the hit boxes so they feel better than they look... Or should rationally be.
I like to call it Game Realism. Its like how even the most realistic house in a game is not realistic. If it was, it will feel wrong.
The rooms will feel too constricting, doors arches and windows will feel too small and it will feel either too empty or too cluttered.
If the hitboxes were actually realistic, the fighting would not be as smooth or fun as it is. Itd feel much more clunky. Like Kingdom Come Deliverance.
Much more realistic fighting system and the way you get hit is realistic (source did full contact martial arts, got hit many times) but it doesn't feel as immediately good to use. I had more game overs in that game from fights than in DS2 and DS3 combined
The issue in 1:16 is unintentional, but is normal. The twist is actually happening in between frames so the animation if perfectly capped at 30 or 60 fps, the animator or gamer won't see it.
Great quality on this production, Bab!
there's at least a dozen different ways to deal with waterfowl, which are mostly more intuitive than spinning around her. The most intuitive way without a shield is to watch your positioning and run and jump away from the first flurry.
That way is impossible if you are right at her, only work in mid range.
@@windflier1684 You can always try to interrupt her waterfowl dance.
If you are close to a wall it is you fault as game already makes it clear with revenants and falling star beasts that having space and positioning yourself during the fight is important.
Her arena is bigger than those I mentioned combined with plenty of space.
Name the dozen different ways
Yeah. Name 12 different ways. Bonus points if most of them work for any midroll build in the game.
@@jimmyjohnjoejr There aren't a dozen, but there are more than just rolling around her. Immunible shield or whatever the ash is called that makes you invincable, inflicting status to stagger her, using quick/bloodhound step to get behind her while she charges up easier and to give a larger opening to dodge the rest with the increased distance from bloodhounds step, just keeping distance so she never gets up in your face in the first place (good luck.) I'm sure there is more if you pick the attack apart.
I thought I has found all the Elden Ring video channels I would ever need and then I find yours! Here's to many more great videos like this.
This video is to everyone responding with "skill issue" or "git gud" when people say things like "that didnt hit me" or "these are some bullshit hitboxes". Im suprised and a littls ashasmed that theyn cant make more accurate hitboxes. I was right all along then, some weapons did clearly not hit me, because the weapon visuals and hitboxes doesnt even always match....
Elden ring sucks.
Yeah sometimes the weapon swing like 10 feet away from u and u still get hit. Some of the worst hitboxes I have ever seen of a modern game.
It gets worse in the DLC.
Some bosses do 100s of particle effects at the same time, covering the entire arena but only 10 or so have actual hitbox. But good luck figuring which one's which.
Tbh ER doesn't NEED as much jank to be bs, since they've made every attack to be a half screen 32 hit spinning combo with a cancel frame trap at the end.
@@mycity7590 name a game more ambitions than Elden ring
Great video, can’t wait for the ds2 vid, everyone hates on it but the weapon hit boxes, while bigger than usual, I see as more of a fair experience.
Mono3000 made a vid proving ds2 actually has really good hitboxes aside from a few, praying you don’t give ds2 haters more fuel. 🙏🏽😂
I don't understand why people still try to defend Malenia's Waterfowl lol I'm convinced it's just difficulty dickriding at this point
I don't mind it actually now that I understand how to dodge it and I can appreciate the idea it's a move you having to strategize around as your dealing with everything else. Reminds me of a suped up manus wombo combo
BUT! I think it's kinda bullshit to figure out on your own! It's one of the few moves you can't dodge roll and it may not be very obvious that you literally have to run away from that first huge volley like a big AOE would. I know on my first playthrough had to look up what to do. It's just not sight readable for such a punishing attack and that just leads to frustration. Only reason I enjoy it now was after hours of fighting her in co-op and solo play.
personally, the only problem is the first flurry, which is mega super unintuitive on how to dodge
the second one can be dodged by dodging towards her and the third one is just walking towards her (or dodging into her again)
it's the first one that makes that attack so horrible
I don't understand why people don't understand that an optional superboss hidden behind 2 secret areas is allowed to have a move that's not easily solved by pressing the circle button at the right time.
@@pizzadastiro1434 That's how literally every other enemy in the game works, though... And this is coming from someone who's beaten Malenia multiple times. Waterfowl is just extremely unintuitive, that's why people hate it.
@@pizzadastiro1434 'it's supposed to be hard so it's OK if it's badly designed and horribly unintuitive' galaxy brain game design take you have there. Literally the difficulty dickriding I'm talking about
Funny you mention hugging the boss to avoid attacks because that's exactly what you can do to avoid a certain Rellana's attack
Really interesting stuff. Also greatly appreciate the no DLC spoilers, just have not had time to sink into it yet sadly. Great content, subbed.
I gotta say, i loved your video presentation, subbed immediately!! ❤ carry on analysing frame data please
Dude, I loved this video. Amazing explanations etc. And also very fun and calming voice. Earned a sub :)
Im 3D Artist and animator and the fact that they do those weird rotations happens sometime in blender, called Euler discontinuity, is hard to explain but the rotations are controlled by curves, and if some of that curves on X, Y or Z its not smooth the axis jumps to another point of the initial rotation. More easier to explain is sometimes bones cant do 360° spins. and if the animation is in the edge of 359° jumps to the 0° and do all the rotation to match the curve animation.