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I made a monk build on my warlock I love it. I use lunafaction boots and glaives, empowering rift and maxed reload speed feels REALLY good on glaives, both exotic and not. (btw monk as in a dnd one)
I feel like a lot of the issues with glaives and their trade offs can be offset or removed entirely if bungie allowed melee exotics to work with them. I was so excited when glaives first came out and I used them on my hunter, mainly because I was using sealed ahamkara grasps with another build and wanted to know if their exotic perk worked with glaives (melee hits reload equipped weapons), to my surprise it did! With this info I thought of all the unique opportunities that might be possible with glaives and melee exotics like karenstein, winters guile, necrotic grip, assassin's cowl, liar's handshake, ACD/0, synthoceps, wormgods caress. So I tested each one, none of them worked, and bungie comes out and says that sealed ahamkara's grasps are bugged with galives and will be patched soon. SMH. If they have no intent of giving the weapon class a complete overhaul, then I believe they need to have SOME melee exotics (that are already a very niece playstyle in higher end content) work or activate their abilities with the glaive melee. Not even talking about the other glaring issues you've made clear in this vid, just make them outright better (mostly passively) when using a melee exotic. Most melee exotics already have a high requirement to make them useful anyways, and others only have marginal buffs.
Just for arguments sake, I do enjoy face rolling content BELOW master with my devour warlock with the first void glaive with font of might/high energy fire playing off of the void wells. The glaive totally helps the content that's already boring that I'm just farming for loot. Glaives need a boost, a tad more damage and its own passive guard makes a ton of sense to me.
Glaives shouldn't have damage falloff at all. It's a projectile weapon, there's already a mechanic limiting its effectiveness at range. If I can hit things far away with it, I should be rewarded and not punished.
When Glaives were announced and showcased, I thought the whole point of the melee was to not count as a weapon hit, but count as a regular melee so it could work with exotics and mods. That would have given it a ton of build crafting potential, more than any other weapon. And each class would benefit differently when meleeing. I find that way more interesting than it benefitting from Rampage like every other weapon already does.
Personally when I tried Glaves, the situation I wanted to make to use it almost never exists in harder content. It’s almost as if GM and similar content have modifiers in place to PREVENT the active use of a Glave. I feel like Melee weapons have a better chance of being viable when the modifiers in the activity aren’t ‘have double champions and oh look, enemies explode when killed’ as if they force players to play the range option.
@@SHADOWGUY425 ya it does work with that which makes it even more confusing why it works with a couple melee effects, but doesn't work with most (including exotics/mods). so damn weird how it's programmed. Hopefully they fix the melee next season.
Glaives currently fill no role, and the exotics "exotic" ability has almost no uptime compared to its potency. Imo, bungie should make glaives a primary weapon. This would help them fill the niche of the defense/melee/offense hybrid weapon, without having to sacrifice the damage of a special. Oh, and give the melee attack more synergy with perks and builds
I think the melee function is far more effective as a weapon than the actual shooting part of it. Imagine if Bungie allowed the Glaive to be it's own slot, and be a replacement for Melee...
@@Edwin-sr8lq It reflects train-of-thought writing. Its totally normal, and helps the reader understand the tone of the author as well as conjugative purposes. Maybe just **actually** ask if you don't understand something?
One of my biggest issues with glaives is that the melee attack doesn’t count as a normal melee or mesh with melee perks despite taking up your melee slot. If you’re running a melee based build like Sunbracers on warlock, it makes glaives pretty much unusable. Just let the melee mesh with abilities, and if it’s broken work around it
yes exactly thank you. It would make buildcrafting so much more interesting if they worked as a regular melee and synergized with exotics. It’d be more interactions like Necrotic and Thorn/Osteo
I think they outright broke the way the melee on glaives is registered as for some reason it procs Echo of Leeching (melee kills regenerate health). I honestly wish there was something akin to Whirlwind Blade for boosting the damage of melee hits or maybe landing hits on PvE combatants gives damage resist so you're not insta-gibbed in higher end content when trying to do a melee combo.
Exactly man, the idea that they’d mesh well had to be something bungie was scared of. Like a glaive that worked with one two punch and worm gods caress, or liars handshake (with combination blow). That would’ve been some amazing synergy with the base subclasses. I also think it would’ve been incredibly strong. So I think bungie released them under powered for that reason. If you think about the amount of exotic melee Armor we have that would’ve synergized with glaives there could’ve been some awesome builds. Assassins cowl would’ve been cool if it proc’d with glaives so would the titan chest piece that causes things to explode. Just a bunch of people are scared to release broken things at bungie based on the critical response to stasis. If our community didn’t rage so hard we probably would’ve had some powerful tools.
@@Lumilightspirit Was about to say glaives and leeching fragment work together, have tested that myself extensively as a crotch-stabbing Hunter goblin. Actually haven't tested with other perks though, shame if it doesn't work with other melee perks. I mostly treat the glaive as a longer heavier melee spammer.
I think all glaives shots should have an intrinsic ability that applies a small debuff that is tied to the element of the weapon: Stasis causes slow/ potential freeze Void does suppression Solar does burn damage/ weaken Arc does the the distrupt/ stun. This way it’s literally a jack of all trade and a reason to carry it. Make it literally a defensive weapon
@@TrevorIsCommenting nothing insane, just like 2 seconds. If not suppression then weaken… like a 4 shots would need to do the equivalent of an actual ability plus there would be a slight immune phase after the given effect
My thoughts for the Glaives: - Make all weapon perks work on the Melee, - Shield energy on melee hits, - for the exotics, separate the ability from your shield and have it replace your charged melle, as you cant use that when using a glaive anyway. Give it its own energy pool, - make the shield a guard function, like on swords, and give us an aim system, since Bungie is treating them like ranged weapons instead of melee. some changes that would make the Exotics and the overall weapon that little bit better.
I really like the idea of giving it an ability cool down in place of charged melee. Like Datto said, they basically are class abilities anyway. Might as well treat them that way fully. Then you could actually use every aspect of the glaive. Not neglect the shield so you could use the exotic oerk
Hell it's even worse than it's not working with its own perks. The melee literally does not work with everything in the game. High energy fireworks but good luck getting multi kills with its projectile, debuffs work but they work with literally everything in the game and everything does more damage more effectively. There is only one build on hunter where you can stack multiple buffs and debuffs to get something like 270% extra damage for damage but I am so peeved on how they launch glaves I don't even care to use them because even the best case scenario is still underperforming on the one build its best on for only one class. Maybe that same build could work on the other classes but frankly I don't give a damn.
I was today old when i found out rampage didn't buff the melee with the glaive.... I knew it didn't buff melee but for some reason that didn't register as the same to me lol
Was insanely disappointed when I learned that the titan glaive doesn't interact with Saint-14 Helm. If they made all the exotic glaives interact with armor exotics in some way, they would have made said exotic glaives a thousand times better.
The best interaction I've seen so far with the exotic glaives is the Warlock glaive with the boots of the assembler using empowering rift. Really good support role all round, but like Datto said, glaives are viable in all but the tiniest fraction of the game, I wanna be able to use a build like that in GM's. Hope glaives get some sort of treatment soon because the opportunity for exotic interactions is definitely there, Bungie just needs to implement it further
@@LongDaysPleasantNights I just wish Bungie went all in with that kind of interaction on the other glaives from the get go. I am hoping somethings happens when Arc and solar 3.0 cone around. Here's hoping right? 🙏
@@pee-pee_mama Oh, yeah. I nearly jumped out of my seat when I read that section of the TWAB! 😎 Definitely gonna dust off my Saint helm and level that up.
Spot on. I’ve found ways to use the Warlock glaive well, but even though I’ve found a way to use it effectively I will admit that I could probably get a similar but better effect using different gear for less work. They definitely need help, exotics especially.
tbh if its team healing you want, you should just be using boots of assembler and middle tree dawn, slap on lumina for the shits too and now you have 100000 times more healing and a damage boost too
If the warlock glaives healing shots were like lumina, giving a damage buff, and were much faster and had massive range and prioritized low health teammates it might be good enough to use.
Being genuinely honest here I think the healing turret should be in solar 3.0, it's really good but it's definitely not something I would use as an exotic alone.
@@velkana well they're most likely getting rid of Well-lock's overshield nade, and I could see them replacing it with a heal turret. It's a fun idea, wish it was more fun on the damn glaive though
I think they highlight one of the bigger issues in Destiny, where melee-centric builds are generally all risk and no reward in D2 endgame. It is near impossible to use your non-ranged melee ability and etc in a brawler type fashion without getting absolutely shit on in GMs. Glaives are the same way, and its shield and etc aren't enough make that playstyle any more viable, which sucks because swinging around the big melee stick in a group of enemies is kinda the fantasy of you know, a stick with a blade on it.
@@ByronCavendish Yeah, I don't know why they keep trying to make close range builds a thing when every single encounter is designed to punish being near bosses, or to make doing so impossible.
@@scrambo6182 and even with the best damage mitigation exotic, stronghold, you struggle to not die instantly the moment you drop the guard to attack. It’s so stupid.
I want to see the glaives that Bungie said were op during testing, honestly bring those into the game and see what the playerbase thinks. Even if they're broken as hell, it would be better than what we have now because at least they'd be interesting.
This is such an underrated comment. I really believe bungie thought they were too overpowered and ended up nerfing them so much they became un-usable. They should have done what they do with all other new exotics, release it broken, then watch the player base complain about the broken parts and tune the glaives as needed. Then we probably would end up with a nerfed glaive that's still more viable than the version we currently have
@@slayye5677 Yeah but that's my point. With stasis there was constant discussion among the community every day. That shit made headlines it was so broken. Both stasis and glaives were advertised as big selling points for their respective expansions, but nobody cares about glaives, whereas everyone cared about stasis. Something being op is infinitely better than it being useless. Even from a balancing standpoint, it's far easier to nerf something into a balanced state compared to buffing something into a balanced state. Bungie thought they nerfed glaives appropriately before Witch Queen, but they clearly didn't have enough reliable data. They should have released them op and nerfed them after the community got to test them out.
The glave in witch queens have their weaknesses but they are still stronger by shooting out of tue frommnt of the witch queens glaves. The original halo combat evolution 2001 throught halo reaches claves were strong but could not shoot any ammo.
I think another downside to glaives Is that the Exotic Glaives outnumber the Legendary Glaives. We don't have enough glaives to have most of them being exotic.
The issue is Destiny's enemy design. Melee enemies are lethal and fast, enemy projectiles can't be reliably dodged without cover. Compare this to oldschool Doom where the Berserk powerup is completely useable by good players on difficult content.
A lot of enemies actually stagger when you hit them, in a gm isn’t terrible. On arms dealer last week, I used a glaive and basically clutched a moment where dogs rushed us and I just spammed the melee. HoF and unstoppable shot provide a nice damage boost too.
Yup. But thats not news. Destinys ai and combat arenas in general needs a rethink. Look at doom eternal. The ai is really simple. But hoe the ai is communicating, moving around you, hunting you, and different tiers of enemies creating a chess board kind of loop, really makes you use everything. I really think before bungie overhauls playlists and content, they need to do enemy deaign 2.0. Like get a public test server going. Throw in a couple of blockout arenas and go start experimenting with enemies.
Devour while killing everything with glaive melee can be pretty fun. Especially if you're hitting melee,reload,melee,reload to increase the attack speed.
Figured I would corroborate your experiential claims. I have a level 260 enigma, so I've been using it a lot this season, and I often find that even with all my experience I am usually better served by a normal gun.
Pretty much sums up my thoughts on this weapon type: what does it *ACTUALLY* contribute to your team/your loadout. Wave Frames: S-tier ad-clear, actually not bad against majors, and have 2 of THE BEST EXOTICS in the the game (Witherhoard and Dead Messenger) Pipe-nade launchers: Blinding turns the game off, good at some ad-clear, actually hurts enemies. Salvagers Salvo exists! Fusions: what Glaives want to be, actual jack of all trades weapon type depending on charge time. Fusion/Special Linear exotics are all (at worst) good to god-tier Snipers: Long Range Single target DPS machines, has a few special ammo exotics that are good to manditory depending on the mission (Izi and Cloudstrike) Shotguns: Build weapons in PvE, Slugs are MONSTEROUS almost everywhere but take a lot of risk to use at times, one-two punch existing is what keeps shotguns relavent in PvE Glaives: worse shooting DPS than most primaries. Melee is about the same as your class melee in terms of speed, in some cases doing WAY less damage (like, as a hunter or titan, why would you EVER give up Arc Punch or Hammer toss for the joke of a melee that is Glaive) If you actively want to hamper your experience of the game, for a meme or difficultys sake, thats what a Glaive is for. Unless they MASSIVELY buff the damage of Glaives, maybe make the projectiles into explosives (like a slow moving grenade that could get Chain Reaction or make Glaives fire like a shotgun) AND give you better damage on the Melee, They'll remain a bottom tier weapon type. I get that Bungie doesn't want weapons to be "too hot" coming into things, but I feel like it's easier in a game design standpoint to walk back something thats too hot than try to buff something out of being garbage-tier
Shooting aside, Glaive melee would be the best in the game if it actually procced everything that regular melee did. It's slightly faster than regular melee, and does double the damage regular melee does per hit. You actually need class abilities or other buffs to keep up with Glaive melee as it is right now. I wonder if that's why Glaive melee doesn't proc things- Bungie did say the weapon type was "OP in testing", supposedly.
I think making the projectile explode on direct hit on an enemy would be nice, and solve potential spam issues in crucible maybe, as well as letting the melee benefit from damage perks, and some form of Passive Guard against close range enemies would be a good start for Glaives
The exotic glaives also have a lower impact stat than the legendary glaives. Seriously using the exotic glaives even if you ignore the exotic traits, is worse than any legendary glaive right now.
I will say suppressing glaive was really useful in the last 2 legend campaign missions because Hive have multiple units that just don't stop firing. Being able to just shut down Ogres/wizards/shriekers for a long time from range was very valuable to me. But outside of Hive I don't think there are many enemy types like that, Colossus comes close.
This is facts. Also in more causal content combining suppressive glaive with invis hunter means every single melee hit while you have ammo makes you go invisible and grants truesight. Combined with the fragment that extends void effects you can go invis for ten seconds on every hit, and you don’t reappear when you hit another enemy bc you go right back into invis. It’s so much fun
The fastest solo platinum scarlet keep grandmaster and the fastest solo birthplace of the vile solo plat grandmaster currently on youtube this season is from a titan using glaive. supressive glaive is still super good and basically like blinding. glaives block more damage then a sword. guys name is ArmanGhotra btw.
I feel like glaives should have some unique body movement when using them to make guardians a harder target rather than just spears that poke and slash targets. Movement like a cool pole-vault slash and what not, kind of like arc strider but toned down a bit.
"A glaive where you can't stab things safely..." I mean... you *could* do it. Then they nerfed suppressing glaive and took away the stagger effect because those are favorable for us, and we can't have that.
it's so confusing, the glaives were barely even good WITH suppressing glaive and they decided to nerf it despite the fact that breach and clear and particle deconstruction defined entire seasonal metas. i didn't use glaives with pre-nerf suppressing glaive and now i never will
Good? No they weren't. But if you were a solo player who maybe just wanted to clear Vox Obscura without recruiting people you've never met before, and running around invisibly beating things to death with a stick while on a time crunch was the only way to not get pinned to a corner and mauled by six troopers an unstoppable champion and a colossus, then having the option was nice. Was this a personal grievance more than am overall meta issue? Probably. But when Bungie also turned around and said, "No, you solo players are absolutely not in any way meant to access the Puzzle lore from the Preservation mission, and you *must* play with friends, and fuck you and your social anxiety if you don't have any," then it starts to form an uncomfortable image that they nerfed suppressing glaive *because* it was useful to solo players more than because it actually "balanced" anything. Again, this isn't even the real issue because like you said, it's still a bad weapon. But it turned Nightstalker into an actual assassin like Bungie keeps claiming, and it let me "play how I want" which Bungie *also* keeps claiming... and then they promptly took that away because there weren't 2-5 other people in every activity with me at all times struggling to keep a fraction of our health, and Bungie takes this personally for some reason.
I feel like passive guard should just be on swords and glaives by default (reduced effect) and make the shield taunt nearby enemies, then it would actually be a somewhat effect tank weapon.
I liked the versatility of the glaive while I used it in the Legendary campaign, but when our default loadouts already allow a ton of versatility, having a weapon where that's it's sole appeal seems odd. And personally I hate that close range has never been truly viable in endgame. I love run and gun shotgun gameplay, and the fact that that style is a horrible idea in most activities that matter kinda blows.
Close range can be viable in end game but it is situational. It has to be mega powerful like Ikelos shotty or even some swords in some niche instances are useful
I also love shotguns. I kinda miss when the Ikelos shotgun was really strong and it was a fun weapon to farm for as well. Unfortunately with the way endgame content like GMs are set up, it's going to be difficult to make everything viable in those situations and even then, there will always be something that's just better. Especially because playing at a distance will likely always be more optimal just because it's safer.
@@shreknskrubgaming7248 For the most part yes. But if Ikelos shotty was still in its original form it would absolutely dominate GMs right now. It would be a champ destroyer
It's not a bad idea to make glavies tanking tools, we don't have a full-blown defensive weapon anyway so why not make their shields much stronger in PVE and find that special role for them
I hated it at first BUT I've come to adore the titan exotic glaive. Don't use its shield. Don't use it for damage. Just get enough hits to charge its bubble and then store it until needed. The bubble is sooo good and the overshield it gives your team lasts even when you step out... that's something that even the titan bubble ult doesn't do.
You make some pretty good points Datto. After using the glaive in PvP, (more than I probably should lol) I see how fun Glaives can be tanking various weapons to duel players using a passive play style and countering the various apes of the game. However, they do fall short sometimes for tanking stuff like full fusion bursts and the usual shotty punch combo. I even believe the weapon has the issue of the infamous ghost bullets at times where I believe the projectile connected, but I see no damage happening. I would love to see how they can tune up the glaives, because I know how fun they can become
Ive been using glaives in trials all last weekend and it honestly felt great once i figured out their playstyle. Lots of wipes and even won some 3v1s. I think the ghost shots mostly happen when I try to fire while blocking with no energy, in my experience. Once I consciously stopped doing that, it felt much better.
As someone who used it throughout the legendary campaign once I got it and has religiously used it since that point, I find that they're great for clearing ads very quickly and conserving ammo. The shield guard is great for getting revives or safely moving towards heavy targets or behind cover, as well as negating pushes from enemy attacks like stomps or blasts. In all honesty, yeah the damage they deal is about LMG dps which yeah, sucks, but mashing melee is imo very fun, but mainly its free dps and a pretty good panick button for groups of low tier crowds rushing you since it has cleave like swords
First of all, entertaining video as always. And honestly I feel like I can't really recommend using any of the exotic glaives because they just don't feel good. But as I ran through the legendary campaign with my buddies my enigma was a godsend. Granted I was playing around it's capabilities, but it was the most valuable part of my toolkit. I was able to survive an absolutely unholy amount of damage by juggling the shield, my invincible finisher, and my bastion barricade.
During the final mission in WQ I realized I forgot my glaive in the vault, then quit halfway through to grab it and re-run the mission. I'd done just about every mission running with my Enigma like a madman, it would've felt wrong if I didn't have my buddy with me in the finale.
I was using a glaive in Gambit. Worked surprisingly well. I would get tons of motes fast after going on a slaughter spree. Paired with Lorely it felt half viable. Although you def cant rely on it when your surrounded or aggroed. but i worked well as a mote collector for the team
2-3 months later, tried using the glave (titan) in GMs and I really like it! I get the bubble ability for it as a priority then use it if one of us dies and it allows me to have full protection for someone's rez! There's better things of course but does it feel amazing knowing that you're the reason your team didn't wipe 😎
I thought the glaive was very fun in solo legendary campaign missions on a devour warlock, meleeing hordes of thrall and acolytes that can otherwise overwelm you and the occasional shield save from those oneshotting lightbearers. For anything else though? GMs hit too hard and the glaive too little to be usefull there. In non solo content you have teamates and plenty of their supers like wellocks and banner titans to help you stay alive. In content at the same lightlevel you better just run add clear weapons to deal with the hordes and don't really need a shield.
Makes me think of a scene in "Stargate: SG-1" when O'Niell is explaining to people on another world that the staff used by the jaffa is a weapon of terror, not a weapon of war. To really aim, they had to shoulder it like an RPG-7 and take forever to aim at 200 yards. The glaive isn't much better for a game like this.
Having used glaives for a couple of the GMs so far (Scarlett Keep, Arms Dealer), I can say that as far as the exotics go, they fall under the "don't" tier. No G-horn, no exotic primary (these are pretty gud now). Def agree that you lose too much. Now, Enigma and Lubrae ain't that bad, they hit the "meh" tier like pre- or post-seasonal mod fusion rifles. Stunning is cool, shields are nice for getting revives, but the damage? That ain't it chief. Slug shotguns, snipers, and fusions will 1-bang red bars. That is like the MINIMUM acceptable performance for a special weapon. That said, I will complete Lightblade with a glaive, probably Lubrae. Suppressing glaive hits different when it prevents lightbearers from 1-shotting with their supers.
The fastest solo platinum scarlet keep grandmaster and the fastest solo birthplace of the vile solo plat grandmaster currently on youtube this season is from a titan using glaive. supressive glaive is still super good and basically like blinding. glaives block more damage then a sword. guys name is ArmanGhotra btw.
@@artur3306 but that is using supressive glaive mod, a mod tied to the seasonal artifact that we cant get any other way, it makes glaive okay to use this season but doesnt make them a best in slot option forever
I really enjoy using a glaive. I found using the enigma a lot of fun. I found it works the best on a titan or hunter. But you really have to invest your entire build to make it semi viable in end game content. It's unfortunately not gonna be good after this season,but I'm hoping for them to get a buff soon.
I find them fun in low tier content and there’s a lot in the shield department that can add utility but being special weapons they just don’t fit. A lot of good suggestions in here and making it a primary may be the move as suggested here as well
I never thought about that but that actually does make the most sense. The glaive shot is extremely slow and does barely more damage than a bow at a similar rate of fire. the exotic perks and shield feel terrible because you have to spend so much special ammo to use them.
In higher level activities, I find Glaives to be more effective as a defensive option when adds are close to swarming you, but that still does depend on being able to suppress enemies. Once that seasonal artifact mod goes away, I can't see them being any more useful than a shotgun for cqc
Shoulnt be getting swarmed with ads to the point where you’d die if you hadn’t had the glaive shield. The videos point stands that you can do way more with a more offensively focused load out.
@@JoshuaValencia2003123 I'm not talking about the Glaive shield. Swinging the Glaive can hit multiple targets, so if they're on top of me, that's when I start swinging
I've been getting a lot of good use out of the legendary glaives in all content. Built right they are solid and have incredible survivability. The exotics though are absolutely awful. They bring nothing to the build that you can't achieve without wasting your exotic slot or using a better exotic. They need serious buffs before becoming viable in anything challenging.
I may be a bit late to the party here, but as a Gambit addict, glaives are ABSOLUTELY INCREDIBLE in there. They are such workhorse weapons for going from wave to wave or dealing with Blockers and Envoys, they just fall short when it comes to dealing with Invaders
I love using glaives, I used my baby Enigma in the day-one raid and it was putting in work (and the shield was a godsend). Still though, I agree with basically all points in this video, they need buffs. Buffs to damage, projectile speed, melee perks (either weapon perks like rampage, or proccing exotics and class perks like winter's guile or karnstein armlets), and base mag size. And the exotic ones... they are really bad tbh, they take way too much work to activate mediocre perks.
My wishlist for Glaives Small AOE on projectile impact Being able to run/walk at full speed when using the shield Make the projectile faster by default or/and no damage fall off Perks working on melee ability (basically everything the community has asked for lol) Exotic glaives... honestly i dont know but i agree they need a complete rework to at least be fun to use, for one the ability being tied to the shield energy needs to change/go, maybe half the energy needed or 1/4 of the total would be better. And since crafting is the big thing with this xpac and future- maybe they could give exotic (legendary too?) glaives a craftable perk (swords too) that gives say a mini-version of Passive Guard (1/2 the power or 1/4 the power of the seasonal perk) i feel that would at least open them up a bit more to be used in harder content outside of seasons with Passive guard (this is assuming a future update will allow this to work on glaives as well as swords)
Excellent points. Although I will say that the Enigma puts in massive work in Gambit. Definitely one of my favorites to run especially seeing how it 4-5 shots the Envoys.
I literally don’t think I’ve ever made a single comment on UA-cam related to an ad in a video, but. I can honestly say that Bespoke is really cool. I got rid of my subscription last year because of budgeting but I had it for a few years and I have tons of cool stuff that I still use. Whiskey stuff, go-bag survival stuff, a pillow, my duffel bag for short trips etc etc. if you have never tried it and like Datto then support both of them and give it a try
Maybe it would have made more sense if all the exotic glaives where switched the hunter getting mini dome the titan with the turret and the warlock with the other one (could be nice on stormcaller), I sort of thought they would be more like caster sword or wave frame GLs , you could slap down a sort of thermite grenade, or swipe a projectile like black talon, but sadly we get a weird grape and a pain in the a shield/exotic perk situation
For exotics, an S-tier exotic is one that is an amazing must-have for everyone, an A-tier exotic is one that's good for most players, B-tier requires a little practice, C-tier requires some skill to optimize, D-tier requires a lot of skill to be usable, and F-tiers just plain suck. Two of the exotic glaives are F-tier, and the warlock glaive is D-tier. Hot take, no exotics should be D- or F- tier, even if their weapon types are terrible.
@@kashema1810 I would say we can remove Two-Tail this season, since the suppressing weaken mod actually is really good for it. Eyes and Worldline are also novelties with skating and Eyes being just plain fun, but the rest... yeah they kinda need some help.
@@kashema1810 why are you listing thunderlord it does a fine job at ad-clearing and was never meant for anything else, really good to use in raid areas with high ad density
The best use for the titan glaive bubble is so you can create a safe spot to reload your slow as reloading glaive after throwing it down. It's like poetry, it rhymes.
I guess I'm truly the only person that thinks this way, but I love Glaives. Suppressing glaive is just insane and once you learn how to use the shield you can tank some crazy stuff. The melee combo is just a cherry on top as it gives decent damage for no ammo cost. I wouldn't mind seeing the damage and the projectile speed get buffed though, as well as have damage perks affect the melee part of the weapon.
You're kinda missing the point: suppressing glaive is amazing FOR THIS SEASON. Glaives already are objectively not very good - very fun don't get me wrong - but not great weapons overall. So when the ONLY THING making them good goes away, what then? They're super-slow, super-awkward pseudo snipers with awful damage and projectile speeds? The shield is great and all, but in any high-end content, is it not just easier to hide and use any other guns? I guarantee a lot more people than you think do enjoy glaives - they're a super unique take on a weapon concept and at least for the Enigma, are quite versatile. There's nothing wrong with liking bad guns - I mean I run around with Last Word in lost sectors because I like the feel of the gun. Just don't be blind to them being bad...
I'm with you. I think the raid and exotic glaives are underwhelming, but I really enjoy the craftable glaive. I think there are some legitimately good perk combos, and making enemies do less damage with the origin trait mitigates some of the melee risk. Suppression is nice, but I'll still be using this glaive when I don't have that anymore. I believe there are some interactions with the melee attack that aren't working properly, and that Bungie has said they're working on them. I guess the big thing is to recognize that you have decent DPS with the melee (assuming you time attacks properly - if you spam it, you get pulled out of being able to chain the combo infinitely), and that DPS requires no ammo. It's a bit better than fusion rifles I think, though there is the caveat that we're talking about sustain, rather than burst. So better for straddling the middle ground between deleting majors and shredding minors in my opinion. And sure, they may not be viable in GM content because of how every enemy nukes you - but a lot of things aren't viable in GM content because you have to get too close and enemies are too tanky. But, uh, yeah, that ranged attack is a big oof most of the time. It lives and dies by the suppression effect. Still, though, I really like pulling them out in the right content. It's my go-to whenever there are unstoppable champions.
“It’s amazing what a good knife can do for you even as a kitchen casual.” Yes, it is. Good knives are the one thing I don’t cheap out on in my kitchen and I’m not even a huge cook or anything. The difference is as night and day as having the right tool in your toolbox for the job at hand is.
The exotic glaives are useless. However, outside of grandmaster it is still useful (this season) to use normal glaives for invisible glaive hunter. It's not as easy as it was before the nerf, but is still usable if you remember to shoot it every so often to get suppression energy. You can still use it to do master lost sectors pretty safely.
The only time glaives are good are on invis hunter with the health back on melee kill fragment and pre nerf suppressing glaive, somethings gotta change
Great analysis! I still love glaives, though. They’re just fun for me and effective enough for what I play. The Enigma has always been fun and I just got Lubrae’s Ruin (just randomized drops thus far) and Edge of Intent, both of which seem pretty nice. Edge of Intent provides a particularly nice balance between offense and defense. It makes short work of Solar shields such as those of the wizards at the Wellspring while allowing quick melee attacks, defense while reviving teammates, and extra healing to supplement one’s rift while being mobbed on plates. It kind of feels like Edge of Intent was made specifically for the Wellspring.
The solution isn’t making glave shots have aoe. It’s making the mele more powerful and the shield more passive. It’s supposed to be a spear with a derringer on the end. Not a bazooka with a bayonet.
I'm personally really loving my grave robber/ unrelenting enigma with the void aspect that instantly starts health regen on melee kills - gives great survivability even against hordes and honestly is just pretty fun
I feel like people forget the utility of the shield, in pve it basically cancels damage and in pvp it counters shotgun rlly hard doe it does require you to get a shot in before they get to you which is indeed a pretty hard feat. I do think the exotic glaive special shot need a rework bc the alt fire isnt as helpful as a damage canceling shield. I also thing they should rework the magazine sizes bc the do run out of ammo too fast. Edit: just to add that this is from personal experience, i am nearing 250 kills in crucible and 15k kills in pve used in p much all levels of content, i do not yet have the exotoc titan glaive which sucks bc it looked more interesting than the hunter glaive. Also reforcing that glaives are indeed a mostly inferior option to other specials, imo, bc it asks for more skill from the player than your average short/medium range weapon.
I agree with all of that, I just recently started trying a shield build with it. Other than that I've been thinking about reload speed because of the same reasons you mentioned of the magazine
or you could just not be shot lmao, like datto says, you're more likely to die as a glaive user so the teammate rezzing capability is a minimal benefit
Yeah, having an exotic perk that wants you to ignore 1/3rd of the weapon's capabilities feels bad. I feel like there must have been some sort of design confusion when glaives were made. The projectile shot wasn't designed to be its main source of damage. It's slow firing, slow traveling, clunky to use, has ok damage, has a small magazine, and a slow reload. Yet all the perks for both the legendary and exotic versions are centered around the projectile with the exception of 3 perks that include the shield, and 1 of those still wants you to use the projectile. It's like glaives were designed by one team, and then handed off to the weapon team to make perks for and they didn't know what to do with them. "What's good on glaives? I don't know, let's just do what we do with guns. Give them kill clip, killing wind, rampage, swashbuckler, ect."
The only time I found glaives fun past initial launch was when I was doing Alter of Sorrows and I could just smash the yellow bars for days. Then they nerfed that, because obviously something fun like that could only be unintentional. Now I, once again, don't use glaives.
They should really give the exotic glaives intrinsic chain reaction on the projectile shot. It realistically would still not even be as good as salvo or forbearance and takes up the exotic slot but among some of the other changes that you mentioned (impulse amplifier, perks applying to melee etc.) it would at least give them something. Like an exotic special weapon should be either good for high single target damage or good ad clear and this would throw them a bone and make it potentially worth the exotic slot. This could also help for synergy with the light 3.0 builds as well
I think it’s so cool that Datto posts these internal videos for us to watch. The higher ups at Bongo must be so mald when they see their lowest paid employee Datto posting his videos detailing the fixes they will implement. Thanks for fixing glaives Datto I cannot wait until I can rock my Enhanced Tilting at Windmills in the Glassway GM Nightfall. 😀
one thing ive learnt quickly this season with gms and the "burns" is that defensive supers like bubble and well arent the play anymore. banner shield is an exception cause you can be mobile with it. but endgame content feels so much easier if everyone runs offensive builds/loadouts
glaives are my go to weapon when farming gambit wins due to how easily you can supress a wizard and stop orgres/knights from 1 shotting you, but that's only because supressing glaive exists. After the mod goes away, glaives are going to suck even more than before
I've found that they're good for ad-clearing encounters like the Acquisition(First room) and Upended Encounters(Relic run) in base VotD. other than that they haven't really been all that important imo. They can be fun, but that's about it so far.
Two things about the glaives you're not doing right: First you can shoot while the shield is active. This not only allows you to output damage while being shielded, but it also lets you refill the shield while using it, by damaging targets with the projectile. You can also hold the shield up while meleeing enemies. this won't keep it active, but will activate it immediately after the melee animation is done, including between hits in a combo. Second the big damage from the Hunter Exotic Glaive is from the projectile itself. This isn't a Wave Frame GL. It's closer to a Rocket with Cluster Bombs. The wave is gonna come out after you hit something else with the big shot, even if that something else isn't the ground. The majority of the perks damage comes from the initial shot. By shooting the ground instead of enemies with that you're missing out on most of your damage.
Heres my plan: just make them work on sword energy: exotic perk takes up all energy, sheild duration based on energy, melee hits dont consume energy, and range attacks take 1/4 of the energy. add charge time as a stat in place of sheild duration.
glaives actually work pretty well with renewal grasps. We were using it in last weeks GM and with the massive close range dr and the bonus melee damage to frozen targets it was really getting shit done. They clearly still need massive buffs since this is such a niche use case but I figured it was worth mentioning
I used double special with agers and the normal void glaive in gms, it went alright honestly. The shield and resist I had let me clutch revives more than once, but I understand it’s like a shit sandwich most of the time.
I wanted to say, Thank you for this video you said everything!!!!! I just hope they truly listen to you!!!! I just wish all classes can you use all of them. A hunter putting down a lil bubble. That is mind blowing.
If I made those exotic gloves. I'd make their exotic perks more like mini supers and able to change the element to have different perk functions. For example, the warlock one, when it's solar, it can drop a mini well of radiance with only rapid health regeneration. When it's void, it can throw a mini Nova bomb like the one by Savathun. When it's arc, it can create a small area of chained lightning with decent duration.
100% agree with the aoe affect. The way they shoot it just feels right. So much so I have, on multiple occasions, instinctually shot at the feet of at enemy, only to "miss" when it impacts the ground literally in between their feet. Even just a tiny aoe so that this does damage would make it feel so much better to shoot.
Glaive skating on hunter is a lot of fun. And since the exotic for hunter is arc so it’s a nice damage boost when actually using Bakris. They just need to do more.
I have a really really fun and effective glaive build on my hunter, but it's making use of what I'm assuming are glitches and I have to fully dedicate my kit to it. So I run the hunter glaive with top tree Arc Strider and Sealed Ahamkara Grasps. For some reason, the glaive melee and projectile shot count as a melee kill for top tree Arc, which instantly refreshes dodge cool down. I then abuse the dodge with Reaping Wellmaker and Well of Tenacity (both melee and projectile count as weapon final blows). This gives me damage resistance almost all the time while I'm knee deep in adds. Then I've got Elemental Time Dilation to give me a longer duration on my resist (which gives me a bit of breathing room to run away to close the distance between adds) and Elemental Charge to fuel Reactive Pulse (for close range stuns on beefier targets). I'm also working on incorporating Recuperation on my boots for added health, but I haven't experimented with what parts of the glaive work for generating orbs. Anyways, I open an encounter by dodging into combat, slicing, dodging, slicing, dodging, ect. If something's far away or I need to strip shields, I fire the projectile. Melee hits with the glaive proc Sealed Grasps, which auto loads my weapon. Not neccessary, but very nice, especially when I can't spare a second to reload manually. I spose I could always run reload dodge for that, but I prefer the distance gambler's dodge gives you for both evading attacks and covering distance between enemies. I get the super shot for the glaive charged up quite frequently. The hunter glaive has 6 in the mag and only requires 4 to charge and fires really fast. While not doing a lot of damage nor being as effective as something like Trinity Ghoul, I still find it useful when I get surrounded by too many melee adds or when I need to quickly disperse a crowd at a distance. But yeah, all in all the build works really well. I'm still tweaking it, but once I can get it moving, I've had some good luck in endgame activites. Probably still not good enough for a GM, but it works for most other things. It's fun, but you really have to build into it being the only thing you're doing. Hopefully with some glaive buffs and the release of Arc 3.0, my build will get even more viable.
I actually just ran a glaive with Izanagi's in the Taniks encounter in DSC. That's about the only place I have ever considered them a top tier choice. Defending my case: We needed to run double special for Taniks because I didn't want to use a slug shotgun because I'd be relying too much on my abilities to clear ads. I chose the glaive. Ads were a piece of cake and so were the Majors and all without using ammo so I could use it to take out Taniks' thrusters to get the nukes. That's the one and only place I would ever say that a glaive is a very smart choice.
I spent hours upon hours farming for armor Stat rolls, bow rolls, sword rolls and armor mods to make a fantasy battle mage build before the dlc dropped. I'm running an extremely specific build that was supposed to take full advantage of the glavie when it dropped. Melee damage increases, increased healing rifts and grenade energy for upclose combat, war mind cell explosions that heal me from all most any range. I had such high hopes for glavies only to find out that they were gimped from the start to not function with nearly everything I had built. I believe that if they functioned with melee specific abilities as well as had aoe on ranged kills they could be extremely good in mid to some end game activities. I get that Bungie was probably scared of the ramifications that would bring but they also stated that they want builds to be how we as players express ourselves in game. So far glaive just can't compete with anything and even in a highly specific build they are handicapped by bungies own design decisions.
this was a long comment, and i don't expect anyone to read it all the way through because that'd be unrealistic, but that's just how i feel about glaives at the moment- i've honestly really loved using glaives wherever i can, ever since the release. my Enigma has 60 levels exactly because i used it until i got a decent Lubrae's Ruin, and i'll be spending the next few weeks getting a craftable one. I went flawless in trials over the weekend since freelance is the only mode i can stomach, and glaives (i used that same vorpal Lubrae's the entire time) actually came in super handy- if i activate big brain and lead the shot, i get shield enough to block a fusion shot and beat the shit out of the assailant to clutch hard, or just use it to track hard on a shotgun ape who ran out of ammo, and vorpal lets it two-shot titan barricades- but now that you mention it... the seasonal mods really carry the glaives hard. the suppress-spam (and hunter invis jank that accompanies it) is really the only thing that makes it useful, since even the shield doesn't block 100% of incoming damage despite it being such a risk to use. I mean, first you need the charge, right? then you need to block, which loewrs your movement speed, you still take what feels like a set, minute amount of damage anyway (blocking your ability to rez teammates or pick up heavy where applicable), and then you have the horrific recoil (most seen when blocking scorpius turret shots), and to continue getting enough block to move back out of cover, you have to use all the ammo in your mag (which is pretty low by default). combine all that with the perks that are really pretty damn useless, it's an underpowering experience for all but amusement and fun exploits like the Mask of Bakris glaive skating thing, which in all honesty is amusing enough to be worth it's weight in gold when playing rumble. if you ask me, the perks specific to glaives are the biggest disappointment. can you name one and it's effects off the top of your head? no, because you're looking for objectively more useful perks, like vorpal, swashbuckler, grave robber, feeding frenzy, normal frenzy, impulse amplifier... the list goes on. Tilting at Windmills? increased speed would be nice, if bullets didn't move faster than you can bring up the shield (also why the black talon catalyst is bad, but that's a different story), and apparently it's so underwhelming that light.gg doesn't have the raw stats for that buff listed on the Enigma. Unstoppable Force? same issue for the blocking, and the 30% increased damage would be nice if the projectile wasn't slower than half the people i knew from the special ed classrooms- useful if you're a god at leading your shots, but for 4s of a buff? probably not gonna be able to make the most of that. Immovable Object, i found as it was on the first Lubrae's i'd gotten, isn't that bad, but still isn't useful since that requires constant blocking to be active. so, tell me if you've noticed the problem with a lot of these perks; actual guns get access to cool things like chain reaction, dragonfly and more, but glaives only get... what, marginal bonuses to blocking? increased damage IF you hit your shots, IF you can catch the enemy attacking in a position where you can take advantage of it? at what point should we be stabbing someone instead of shooting them with a projectile that does barely any more damage than the sharpened edge? so because i dislike whining without giving any feedback, here's how i'd personally adjust them; Tilting at Windmills- have the haste buff apply to melee hit speed, increase the ADS speed (handling?) thanks to the enhanced perk, have the speed apply to the projectile- any or all of the above would make it pretty nice. i'd enjoy being able to poke things faster, for one, and you'd need block charge and to block something to pull it off. Unstoppable Force- nothing really comes to mind to make this better without probably breaking it, but i'd say the enhanced perk should increase the damage on the perk (base 30%) instead of just buffing the timer (base 4 seconds). either that, or giving a fire rate buff of some sort would make it unique enough to bother using. Immovable Object- this perk would probably work just as well if it was a flat bonus to shield duration. probably better, really, since it'd be more useful to shield, roll up to and/or past an enemy, in the off chance blocking is ever more useful than staying behind cover and using a grenade, or grenade launcher, or just taking potshots with a gun or something. i haven't touched mine since crafting it, but according to light.gg, the exotic glaives don't even get any of those perks. all they get is a healing turret, a big ol' bell dome or a wave frame grenade launcher shot that's innumerable magnitudes worse. i don't even know how i would fix them. i'd sooner scrap them in favor of a universal glaive that the Fallen Wretch enemy type uses... but if i had to, i'd give the exotic glaives two charge bars total, so you have room to block, and the alt fire would use up to a single full bar, but activatable pretty much any time, with increased effect (and a single shot) for every third of the bar you charge, with a single bar being what we have now. also completely scrap the activation animation and just smack the thing like with Cerberus+1. that would make them unique, "useful", and pretty powerful, held back by how glaives work.
honestly what you said about the glaive abilities, being more like a new 3rd barricade option or another alternative for a healing rift. makes alot of sense, as for the hunters it could change their dodge into a shatterdive like balistic slam with a dunemarchers chainlightning. i def would love to see more barricade, rift and dodge options
I find using Glaives can be fun if you are willing to lean into them fully. My glaive built mostly into shield duration and using the shield. Since I use the raid glaive, I have the perk that increases damage of the glaive shot. And I gotta say, it feels great in casual play (battlegrounds bosses especially)
For the exotic perks instead of getting shots to proc them there should be a meter that fills as you absorb shots with the shield. That would encourage you to block to charge the effect and make it much more fun to use.
I only tried the warlock glaive solo, but the healing turret feels very... Limp, is the best word I can think of. You place it, it spends a few seconds just dicking around doing nothing, then finally spits out a healing ball which takes its sweet time getting to you.
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I made a monk build on my warlock I love it. I use lunafaction boots and glaives, empowering rift and maxed reload speed feels REALLY good on glaives, both exotic and not. (btw monk as in a dnd one)
I feel like a lot of the issues with glaives and their trade offs can be offset or removed entirely if bungie allowed melee exotics to work with them. I was so excited when glaives first came out and I used them on my hunter, mainly because I was using sealed ahamkara grasps with another build and wanted to know if their exotic perk worked with glaives (melee hits reload equipped weapons), to my surprise it did! With this info I thought of all the unique opportunities that might be possible with glaives and melee exotics like karenstein, winters guile, necrotic grip, assassin's cowl, liar's handshake, ACD/0, synthoceps, wormgods caress. So I tested each one, none of them worked, and bungie comes out and says that sealed ahamkara's grasps are bugged with galives and will be patched soon. SMH. If they have no intent of giving the weapon class a complete overhaul, then I believe they need to have SOME melee exotics (that are already a very niece playstyle in higher end content) work or activate their abilities with the glaive melee. Not even talking about the other glaring issues you've made clear in this vid, just make them outright better (mostly passively) when using a melee exotic. Most melee exotics already have a high requirement to make them useful anyways, and others only have marginal buffs.
id say the only glaive worth (if i have to run one) using is the titan one. it doesnt break so its there the entire 10 seconds
Thank you for making this video. People that use those things are throwing.
Just for arguments sake, I do enjoy face rolling content BELOW master with my devour warlock with the first void glaive with font of might/high energy fire playing off of the void wells. The glaive totally helps the content that's already boring that I'm just farming for loot.
Glaives need a boost, a tad more damage and its own passive guard makes a ton of sense to me.
Hitting a melee combo should give shield energy. And glaives should have a velocity stat instead of range.
Knowing bungie spaghetti code, I wouldn't be surprised if range is projectile velocity but they haven't named it appropriately
Glaives shouldn't have damage falloff at all. It's a projectile weapon, there's already a mechanic limiting its effectiveness at range. If I can hit things far away with it, I should be rewarded and not punished.
@@epicgamerzfail4575 when i tested them a little bit it seemed like it’s indeed just damage falloff, not velocity
Melee giving shield energy but much less than the projectile.
@@LeadCodpiece thats just depressing if true. Why does a projectile have damage fall off
When Glaives were announced and showcased, I thought the whole point of the melee was to not count as a weapon hit, but count as a regular melee so it could work with exotics and mods. That would have given it a ton of build crafting potential, more than any other weapon. And each class would benefit differently when meleeing. I find that way more interesting than it benefitting from Rampage like every other weapon already does.
Personally when I tried Glaves, the situation I wanted to make to use it almost never exists in harder content. It’s almost as if GM and similar content have modifiers in place to PREVENT the active use of a Glave. I feel like Melee weapons have a better chance of being viable when the modifiers in the activity aren’t ‘have double champions and oh look, enemies explode when killed’ as if they force players to play the range option.
The only thing I notice is lightning glaive had the highest fire rate & reload. But not very worthy
it works with class abilities though which is nice, I'm able to get healing with every glaive melee kill due to my void class setup
@@SHADOWGUY425 ya it does work with that which makes it even more confusing why it works with a couple melee effects, but doesn't work with most (including exotics/mods). so damn weird how it's programmed. Hopefully they fix the melee next season.
Glaives currently fill no role, and the exotics "exotic" ability has almost no uptime compared to its potency. Imo, bungie should make glaives a primary weapon. This would help them fill the niche of the defense/melee/offense hybrid weapon, without having to sacrifice the damage of a special. Oh, and give the melee attack more synergy with perks and builds
I think the melee function is far more effective as a weapon than the actual shooting part of it. Imagine if Bungie allowed the Glaive to be it's own slot, and be a replacement for Melee...
Why add the “oh” lol just say what you gonna say 😂
@@Edwin-sr8lq why add your response? Just think what you’re gonna think
@@Edwin-sr8lq It reflects train-of-thought writing. Its totally normal, and helps the reader understand the tone of the author as well as conjugative purposes.
Maybe just **actually** ask if you don't understand something?
Yea glaives should be kinetic weapons. Imagine having a glaive with osmosis
One of my biggest issues with glaives is that the melee attack doesn’t count as a normal melee or mesh with melee perks despite taking up your melee slot. If you’re running a melee based build like Sunbracers on warlock, it makes glaives pretty much unusable. Just let the melee mesh with abilities, and if it’s broken work around it
yes exactly thank you. It would make buildcrafting so much more interesting if they worked as a regular melee and synergized with exotics. It’d be more interactions like Necrotic and Thorn/Osteo
I think they outright broke the way the melee on glaives is registered as for some reason it procs Echo of Leeching (melee kills regenerate health). I honestly wish there was something akin to Whirlwind Blade for boosting the damage of melee hits or maybe landing hits on PvE combatants gives damage resist so you're not insta-gibbed in higher end content when trying to do a melee combo.
Exactly man, the idea that they’d mesh well had to be something bungie was scared of. Like a glaive that worked with one two punch and worm gods caress, or liars handshake (with combination blow). That would’ve been some amazing synergy with the base subclasses. I also think it would’ve been incredibly strong. So I think bungie released them under powered for that reason. If you think about the amount of exotic melee Armor we have that would’ve synergized with glaives there could’ve been some awesome builds. Assassins cowl would’ve been cool if it proc’d with glaives so would the titan chest piece that causes things to explode. Just a bunch of people are scared to release broken things at bungie based on the critical response to stasis. If our community didn’t rage so hard we probably would’ve had some powerful tools.
@@Lumilightspirit Was about to say glaives and leeching fragment work together, have tested that myself extensively as a crotch-stabbing Hunter goblin. Actually haven't tested with other perks though, shame if it doesn't work with other melee perks. I mostly treat the glaive as a longer heavier melee spammer.
THIS.
I think all glaives shots should have an intrinsic ability that applies a small debuff that is tied to the element of the weapon:
Stasis causes slow/ potential freeze
Void does suppression
Solar does burn damage/ weaken
Arc does the the distrupt/ stun.
This way it’s literally a jack of all trade and a reason to carry it. Make it literally a defensive weapon
Or they could release those as perks, or even BETTER they could scrap the exotic class glaives and just let us change modes on a single exotic weapon
Inherent suppression? 😂 come on
@@TrevorIsCommenting nothing insane, just like 2 seconds. If not suppression then weaken… like a 4 shots would need to do the equivalent of an actual ability plus there would be a slight immune phase after the given effect
Arc could also blind instead as that is an aspect of the arc element.
Watch these be the catalyst for the exotic glaive, though this idea is really good and should’ve been like a perk or something
My thoughts for the Glaives:
- Make all weapon perks work on the Melee,
- Shield energy on melee hits,
- for the exotics, separate the ability from your shield and have it replace your charged melle, as you cant use that when using a glaive anyway. Give it its own energy pool,
- make the shield a guard function, like on swords, and give us an aim system, since Bungie is treating them like ranged weapons instead of melee.
some changes that would make the Exotics and the overall weapon that little bit better.
I really like the idea of giving it an ability cool down in place of charged melee. Like Datto said, they basically are class abilities anyway. Might as well treat them that way fully. Then you could actually use every aspect of the glaive. Not neglect the shield so you could use the exotic oerk
If damage perks like swashbuckler and rampage actually buffed melee damage, I would use them a lot more
Or at least procced exotics, like normal melee attacks do
Main reason why I stayed away from them, cause those perks don’t turn on when melee, shooting is always 50/50
Hell it's even worse than it's not working with its own perks. The melee literally does not work with everything in the game. High energy fireworks but good luck getting multi kills with its projectile, debuffs work but they work with literally everything in the game and everything does more damage more effectively. There is only one build on hunter where you can stack multiple buffs and debuffs to get something like 270% extra damage for damage but I am so peeved on how they launch glaves I don't even care to use them because even the best case scenario is still underperforming on the one build its best on for only one class. Maybe that same build could work on the other classes but frankly I don't give a damn.
I was today old when i found out rampage didn't buff the melee with the glaive.... I knew it didn't buff melee but for some reason that didn't register as the same to me lol
@@BSUxFAN29 also, melee kills with the glaive dont even grant rampage stacks, only swashbuckler will do that
Was insanely disappointed when I learned that the titan glaive doesn't interact with Saint-14 Helm. If they made all the exotic glaives interact with armor exotics in some way, they would have made said exotic glaives a thousand times better.
The best interaction I've seen so far with the exotic glaives is the Warlock glaive with the boots of the assembler using empowering rift. Really good support role all round, but like Datto said, glaives are viable in all but the tiniest fraction of the game, I wanna be able to use a build like that in GM's. Hope glaives get some sort of treatment soon because the opportunity for exotic interactions is definitely there, Bungie just needs to implement it further
@@LongDaysPleasantNights I just wish Bungie went all in with that kind of interaction on the other glaives from the get go. I am hoping somethings happens when Arc and solar 3.0 cone around. Here's hoping right? 🙏
you're gonna be a happy boy today, just look at the twab!!
@@pee-pee_mama Oh, yeah. I nearly jumped out of my seat when I read that section of the TWAB! 😎 Definitely gonna dust off my Saint helm and level that up.
Oh shit you're right! Those changes and added synergies to the titan glaive are insane
Spot on. I’ve found ways to use the Warlock glaive well, but even though I’ve found a way to use it effectively I will admit that I could probably get a similar but better effect using different gear for less work. They definitely need help, exotics especially.
tbh if its team healing you want, you should just be using boots of assembler and middle tree dawn, slap on lumina for the shits too and now you have 100000 times more healing and a damage boost too
@@mr_misfortune and your teammates can't easily outrun the healing
If the warlock glaives healing shots were like lumina, giving a damage buff, and were much faster and had massive range and prioritized low health teammates it might be good enough to use.
Being genuinely honest here I think the healing turret should be in solar 3.0, it's really good but it's definitely not something I would use as an exotic alone.
@@velkana well they're most likely getting rid of Well-lock's overshield nade, and I could see them replacing it with a heal turret. It's a fun idea, wish it was more fun on the damn glaive though
I think they highlight one of the bigger issues in Destiny, where melee-centric builds are generally all risk and no reward in D2 endgame. It is near impossible to use your non-ranged melee ability and etc in a brawler type fashion without getting absolutely shit on in GMs. Glaives are the same way, and its shield and etc aren't enough make that playstyle any more viable, which sucks because swinging around the big melee stick in a group of enemies is kinda the fantasy of you know, a stick with a blade on it.
Don't forget, they nerfed swords into the fucking dirt, and even if you can get into melee, every boss has a counter-melee stomp.
@@ByronCavendish Yeah, I don't know why they keep trying to make close range builds a thing when every single encounter is designed to punish being near bosses, or to make doing so impossible.
@@scrambo6182 and even with the best damage mitigation exotic, stronghold, you struggle to not die instantly the moment you drop the guard to attack. It’s so stupid.
I want to see the glaives that Bungie said were op during testing, honestly bring those into the game and see what the playerbase thinks. Even if they're broken as hell, it would be better than what we have now because at least they'd be interesting.
This is such an underrated comment.
I really believe bungie thought they were too overpowered and ended up nerfing them so much they became un-usable.
They should have done what they do with all other new exotics, release it broken, then watch the player base complain about the broken parts and tune the glaives as needed. Then we probably would end up with a nerfed glaive that's still more viable than the version we currently have
Fun until the destiny community complains like with stasis
@@slayye5677 Yeah but that's my point. With stasis there was constant discussion among the community every day. That shit made headlines it was so broken. Both stasis and glaives were advertised as big selling points for their respective expansions, but nobody cares about glaives, whereas everyone cared about stasis. Something being op is infinitely better than it being useless. Even from a balancing standpoint, it's far easier to nerf something into a balanced state compared to buffing something into a balanced state. Bungie thought they nerfed glaives appropriately before Witch Queen, but they clearly didn't have enough reliable data. They should have released them op and nerfed them after the community got to test them out.
The glave in witch queens have their weaknesses but they are still stronger by shooting out of tue frommnt of the witch queens glaves. The original halo combat evolution 2001 throught halo reaches claves were strong but could not shoot any ammo.
@@dustind3960 Umm... What?
My Enigma works wonders when I use it, probably the weapon that made me enjoy Destiny again, especially in PvP. The exotics cannot replace it at all.
I think another downside to glaives
Is that the Exotic Glaives outnumber the Legendary Glaives.
We don't have enough glaives to have most of them being exotic.
Trace rifle moment
The issue is Destiny's enemy design. Melee enemies are lethal and fast, enemy projectiles can't be reliably dodged without cover. Compare this to oldschool Doom where the Berserk powerup is completely useable by good players on difficult content.
A lot of enemies actually stagger when you hit them, in a gm isn’t terrible. On arms dealer last week, I used a glaive and basically clutched a moment where dogs rushed us and I just spammed the melee. HoF and unstoppable shot provide a nice damage boost too.
Yup. But thats not news. Destinys ai and combat arenas in general needs a rethink. Look at doom eternal. The ai is really simple. But hoe the ai is communicating, moving around you, hunting you, and different tiers of enemies creating a chess board kind of loop, really makes you use everything. I really think before bungie overhauls playlists and content, they need to do enemy deaign 2.0.
Like get a public test server going. Throw in a couple of blockout arenas and go start experimenting with enemies.
Devour while killing everything with glaive melee can be pretty fun. Especially if you're hitting melee,reload,melee,reload to increase the attack speed.
Figured I would corroborate your experiential claims. I have a level 260 enigma, so I've been using it a lot this season, and I often find that even with all my experience I am usually better served by a normal gun.
Pretty much sums up my thoughts on this weapon type: what does it *ACTUALLY* contribute to your team/your loadout.
Wave Frames: S-tier ad-clear, actually not bad against majors, and have 2 of THE BEST EXOTICS in the the game (Witherhoard and Dead Messenger)
Pipe-nade launchers: Blinding turns the game off, good at some ad-clear, actually hurts enemies. Salvagers Salvo exists!
Fusions: what Glaives want to be, actual jack of all trades weapon type depending on charge time. Fusion/Special Linear exotics are all (at worst) good to god-tier
Snipers: Long Range Single target DPS machines, has a few special ammo exotics that are good to manditory depending on the mission (Izi and Cloudstrike)
Shotguns: Build weapons in PvE, Slugs are MONSTEROUS almost everywhere but take a lot of risk to use at times, one-two punch existing is what keeps shotguns relavent in PvE
Glaives: worse shooting DPS than most primaries. Melee is about the same as your class melee in terms of speed, in some cases doing WAY less damage (like, as a hunter or titan, why would you EVER give up Arc Punch or Hammer toss for the joke of a melee that is Glaive)
If you actively want to hamper your experience of the game, for a meme or difficultys sake, thats what a Glaive is for. Unless they MASSIVELY buff the damage of Glaives, maybe make the projectiles into explosives (like a slow moving grenade that could get Chain Reaction or make Glaives fire like a shotgun) AND give you better damage on the Melee, They'll remain a bottom tier weapon type. I get that Bungie doesn't want weapons to be "too hot" coming into things, but I feel like it's easier in a game design standpoint to walk back something thats too hot than try to buff something out of being garbage-tier
Shooting aside, Glaive melee would be the best in the game if it actually procced everything that regular melee did. It's slightly faster than regular melee, and does double the damage regular melee does per hit. You actually need class abilities or other buffs to keep up with Glaive melee as it is right now. I wonder if that's why Glaive melee doesn't proc things- Bungie did say the weapon type was "OP in testing", supposedly.
I think making the projectile explode on direct hit on an enemy would be nice, and solve potential spam issues in crucible maybe, as well as letting the melee benefit from damage perks, and some form of Passive Guard against close range enemies would be a good start for Glaives
The only plus side I've experienced with glaives is the fact that the melee kills activate the void fragment for healing on melee kills
The exotic glaives also have a lower impact stat than the legendary glaives. Seriously using the exotic glaives even if you ignore the exotic traits, is worse than any legendary glaive right now.
I will say suppressing glaive was really useful in the last 2 legend campaign missions because Hive have multiple units that just don't stop firing. Being able to just shut down Ogres/wizards/shriekers for a long time from range was very valuable to me. But outside of Hive I don't think there are many enemy types like that, Colossus comes close.
This is facts. Also in more causal content combining suppressive glaive with invis hunter means every single melee hit while you have ammo makes you go invisible and grants truesight. Combined with the fragment that extends void effects you can go invis for ten seconds on every hit, and you don’t reappear when you hit another enemy bc you go right back into invis. It’s so much fun
Ah yes, the legendary outdoorsman datto, famed for his exploits in chainsaw carving and mountain climbing.
I'd watch that so much
DattoDoesOutdoors
Here at Bungie, we hear you Datto. Next season we will introduce a unstoppable mod for Grandmaster Nights.
Lubrae’s Ruin is definitely the best exotic glaive
The only Glaive worth having tbh
I don't have Lubrae's yet but one thing I see going in Enigma's favor is the void synergy (i.e, volatile flow). Obviously that ends this season...
The fastest solo platinum scarlet keep grandmaster and the fastest solo birthplace of the vile solo plat grandmaster currently on youtube this season is from a titan using glaive. supressive glaive is still super good and basically like blinding. glaives block more damage then a sword. guys name is ArmanGhotra btw.
@@sayarimamani3605 Correct, which is another big issue with glaives, but at least the ranged shot can apply it before you start wailing away
@@mr_ekshun Enigma is still better because Psychohack. Any enemy (outside of some bosses) you melee combo literally can't kill you.
I feel like glaives should have some unique body movement when using them to make guardians a harder target rather than just spears that poke and slash targets. Movement like a cool pole-vault slash and what not, kind of like arc strider but toned down a bit.
"A glaive where you can't stab things safely..."
I mean... you *could* do it. Then they nerfed suppressing glaive and took away the stagger effect because those are favorable for us, and we can't have that.
Becuase "screw you and your fun" as it's kind of tradition at Bungo.
it's so confusing, the glaives were barely even good WITH suppressing glaive and they decided to nerf it despite the fact that breach and clear and particle deconstruction defined entire seasonal metas. i didn't use glaives with pre-nerf suppressing glaive and now i never will
Good? No they weren't. But if you were a solo player who maybe just wanted to clear Vox Obscura without recruiting people you've never met before, and running around invisibly beating things to death with a stick while on a time crunch was the only way to not get pinned to a corner and mauled by six troopers an unstoppable champion and a colossus, then having the option was nice.
Was this a personal grievance more than am overall meta issue? Probably. But when Bungie also turned around and said, "No, you solo players are absolutely not in any way meant to access the Puzzle lore from the Preservation mission, and you *must* play with friends, and fuck you and your social anxiety if you don't have any," then it starts to form an uncomfortable image that they nerfed suppressing glaive *because* it was useful to solo players more than because it actually "balanced" anything.
Again, this isn't even the real issue because like you said, it's still a bad weapon. But it turned Nightstalker into an actual assassin like Bungie keeps claiming, and it let me "play how I want" which Bungie *also* keeps claiming... and then they promptly took that away because there weren't 2-5 other people in every activity with me at all times struggling to keep a fraction of our health, and Bungie takes this personally for some reason.
I enjoyed the glaives with the legendary campaign because it was useful and then bungie changed it. Cool.
@@Blindluck92 t
I feel like passive guard should just be on swords and glaives by default (reduced effect) and make the shield taunt nearby enemies, then it would actually be a somewhat effect tank weapon.
I liked the versatility of the glaive while I used it in the Legendary campaign, but when our default loadouts already allow a ton of versatility, having a weapon where that's it's sole appeal seems odd.
And personally I hate that close range has never been truly viable in endgame. I love run and gun shotgun gameplay, and the fact that that style is a horrible idea in most activities that matter kinda blows.
Close range can be viable in end game but it is situational. It has to be mega powerful like Ikelos shotty or even some swords in some niche instances are useful
GMs and master are not most activities. I run and gun all day long, even in master content I still do fine with the right build.
I also love shotguns. I kinda miss when the Ikelos shotgun was really strong and it was a fun weapon to farm for as well. Unfortunately with the way endgame content like GMs are set up, it's going to be difficult to make everything viable in those situations and even then, there will always be something that's just better. Especially because playing at a distance will likely always be more optimal just because it's safer.
@@shreknskrubgaming7248 For the most part yes. But if Ikelos shotty was still in its original form it would absolutely dominate GMs right now. It would be a champ destroyer
My glaive is only level 4 lol. I forgot it even existed in my vault.. speaking of vault space… WE NEED MORE!!
It's not a bad idea to make glavies tanking tools, we don't have a full-blown defensive weapon anyway so why not make their shields much stronger in PVE and find that special role for them
I hated it at first BUT I've come to adore the titan exotic glaive.
Don't use its shield. Don't use it for damage. Just get enough hits to charge its bubble and then store it until needed. The bubble is sooo good and the overshield it gives your team lasts even when you step out... that's something that even the titan bubble ult doesn't do.
You make some pretty good points Datto. After using the glaive in PvP, (more than I probably should lol) I see how fun Glaives can be tanking various weapons to duel players using a passive play style and countering the various apes of the game. However, they do fall short sometimes for tanking stuff like full fusion bursts and the usual shotty punch combo. I even believe the weapon has the issue of the infamous ghost bullets at times where I believe the projectile connected, but I see no damage happening. I would love to see how they can tune up the glaives, because I know how fun they can become
Ive been using glaives in trials all last weekend and it honestly felt great once i figured out their playstyle. Lots of wipes and even won some 3v1s. I think the ghost shots mostly happen when I try to fire while blocking with no energy, in my experience. Once I consciously stopped doing that, it felt much better.
As someone who used it throughout the legendary campaign once I got it and has religiously used it since that point, I find that they're great for clearing ads very quickly and conserving ammo. The shield guard is great for getting revives or safely moving towards heavy targets or behind cover, as well as negating pushes from enemy attacks like stomps or blasts. In all honesty, yeah the damage they deal is about LMG dps which yeah, sucks, but mashing melee is imo very fun, but mainly its free dps and a pretty good panick button for groups of low tier crowds rushing you since it has cleave like swords
First of all, entertaining video as always. And honestly I feel like I can't really recommend using any of the exotic glaives because they just don't feel good. But as I ran through the legendary campaign with my buddies my enigma was a godsend. Granted I was playing around it's capabilities, but it was the most valuable part of my toolkit. I was able to survive an absolutely unholy amount of damage by juggling the shield, my invincible finisher, and my bastion barricade.
During the final mission in WQ I realized I forgot my glaive in the vault, then quit halfway through to grab it and re-run the mission. I'd done just about every mission running with my Enigma like a madman, it would've felt wrong if I didn't have my buddy with me in the finale.
@@iasomnium919 just incase you dont know you can use destiny item manager to transfer weapons and armour without having to quit activities
I was using a glaive in Gambit. Worked surprisingly well. I would get tons of motes fast after going on a slaughter spree. Paired with Lorely it felt half viable. Although you def cant rely on it when your surrounded or aggroed. but i worked well as a mote collector for the team
I just wanna see why Bungie thought Glaives were so powerful in testing that they had to be nerfed before release
2-3 months later, tried using the glave (titan) in GMs and I really like it! I get the bubble ability for it as a priority then use it if one of us dies and it allows me to have full protection for someone's rez! There's better things of course but does it feel amazing knowing that you're the reason your team didn't wipe 😎
I use my Bubble Glaive 24/7 and have lvl 734 on it
I thought the glaive was very fun in solo legendary campaign missions on a devour warlock, meleeing hordes of thrall and acolytes that can otherwise overwelm you and the occasional shield save from those oneshotting lightbearers. For anything else though? GMs hit too hard and the glaive too little to be usefull there. In non solo content you have teamates and plenty of their supers like wellocks and banner titans to help you stay alive. In content at the same lightlevel you better just run add clear weapons to deal with the hordes and don't really need a shield.
His point still stands. You can be way more using less effort and a less clunky loadout. Salvagers Salvo, null composure, etc
@@JoshuaValencia2003123
Yeah, shoutout to null composure on devourlock with nazarek's sin. Super fun.
This is where I use the glaive. Get devour up and mow down the hoard.
Makes me think of a scene in "Stargate: SG-1" when O'Niell is explaining to people on another world that the staff used by the jaffa is a weapon of terror, not a weapon of war. To really aim, they had to shoulder it like an RPG-7 and take forever to aim at 200 yards. The glaive isn't much better for a game like this.
Having used glaives for a couple of the GMs so far (Scarlett Keep, Arms Dealer), I can say that as far as the exotics go, they fall under the "don't" tier. No G-horn, no exotic primary (these are pretty gud now). Def agree that you lose too much. Now, Enigma and Lubrae ain't that bad, they hit the "meh" tier like pre- or post-seasonal mod fusion rifles. Stunning is cool, shields are nice for getting revives, but the damage? That ain't it chief. Slug shotguns, snipers, and fusions will 1-bang red bars. That is like the MINIMUM acceptable performance for a special weapon.
That said, I will complete Lightblade with a glaive, probably Lubrae. Suppressing glaive hits different when it prevents lightbearers from 1-shotting with their supers.
The fastest solo platinum scarlet keep grandmaster and the fastest solo birthplace of the vile solo plat grandmaster currently on youtube this season is from a titan using glaive. supressive glaive is still super good and basically like blinding. glaives block more damage then a sword. guys name is ArmanGhotra btw.
@@artur3306 but that is using supressive glaive mod, a mod tied to the seasonal artifact that we cant get any other way, it makes glaive okay to use this season but doesnt make them a best in slot option forever
I legit forgot exotic glaives we're in the game until I saw this thumbnail lol
I really enjoy using a glaive. I found using the enigma a lot of fun. I found it works the best on a titan or hunter.
But you really have to invest your entire build to make it semi viable in end game content.
It's unfortunately not gonna be good after this season,but I'm hoping for them to get a buff soon.
I find them fun in low tier content and there’s a lot in the shield department that can add utility but being special weapons they just don’t fit. A lot of good suggestions in here and making it a primary may be the move as suggested here as well
I never thought about that but that actually does make the most sense. The glaive shot is extremely slow and does barely more damage than a bow at a similar rate of fire. the exotic perks and shield feel terrible because you have to spend so much special ammo to use them.
In higher level activities, I find Glaives to be more effective as a defensive option when adds are close to swarming you, but that still does depend on being able to suppress enemies. Once that seasonal artifact mod goes away, I can't see them being any more useful than a shotgun for cqc
Shoulnt be getting swarmed with ads to the point where you’d die if you hadn’t had the glaive shield. The videos point stands that you can do way more with a more offensively focused load out.
@@JoshuaValencia2003123 I'm not talking about the Glaive shield. Swinging the Glaive can hit multiple targets, so if they're on top of me, that's when I start swinging
I've been getting a lot of good use out of the legendary glaives in all content. Built right they are solid and have incredible survivability. The exotics though are absolutely awful. They bring nothing to the build that you can't achieve without wasting your exotic slot or using a better exotic. They need serious buffs before becoming viable in anything challenging.
While I mostly agree with everything here. I really like the suppression/invis builds you can do with hunter and glaives
But they are relied on season mod, which will be gone next season
yea enjoy that for another month and a half
I may be a bit late to the party here, but as a Gambit addict, glaives are ABSOLUTELY INCREDIBLE in there. They are such workhorse weapons for going from wave to wave or dealing with Blockers and Envoys, they just fall short when it comes to dealing with Invaders
I love using glaives, I used my baby Enigma in the day-one raid and it was putting in work (and the shield was a godsend). Still though, I agree with basically all points in this video, they need buffs. Buffs to damage, projectile speed, melee perks (either weapon perks like rampage, or proccing exotics and class perks like winter's guile or karnstein armlets), and base mag size. And the exotic ones... they are really bad tbh, they take way too much work to activate mediocre perks.
I use glaives with the Devour aspect. Works for me.
My wishlist for Glaives
Small AOE on projectile impact
Being able to run/walk at full speed when using the shield
Make the projectile faster by default or/and no damage fall off
Perks working on melee ability
(basically everything the community has asked for lol)
Exotic glaives... honestly i dont know but i agree they need a complete rework to at least be fun to use, for one the ability being tied to the shield energy needs to change/go, maybe half the energy needed or 1/4 of the total would be better.
And since crafting is the big thing with this xpac and future- maybe they could give exotic (legendary too?) glaives a craftable perk (swords too) that gives say a mini-version of Passive Guard (1/2 the power or 1/4 the power of the seasonal perk) i feel that would at least open them up a bit more to be used in harder content outside of seasons with Passive guard (this is assuming a future update will allow this to work on glaives as well as swords)
Excellent points. Although I will say that the Enigma puts in massive work in Gambit. Definitely one of my favorites to run especially seeing how it 4-5 shots the Envoys.
Thank you for making this video Datto
I too hate the pointy stabby sticks
I literally don’t think I’ve ever made a single comment on UA-cam related to an ad in a video, but. I can honestly say that Bespoke is really cool. I got rid of my subscription last year because of budgeting but I had it for a few years and I have tons of cool stuff that I still use. Whiskey stuff, go-bag survival stuff, a pillow, my duffel bag for short trips etc etc. if you have never tried it and like Datto then support both of them and give it a try
Maybe it would have made more sense if all the exotic glaives where switched the hunter getting mini dome the titan with the turret and the warlock with the other one (could be nice on stormcaller), I sort of thought they would be more like caster sword or wave frame GLs , you could slap down a sort of thermite grenade, or swipe a projectile like black talon, but sadly we get a weird grape and a pain in the a shield/exotic perk situation
my favorite thing about this videos is that i can just listen to these in the background while im doing other things
For exotics, an S-tier exotic is one that is an amazing must-have for everyone, an A-tier exotic is one that's good for most players, B-tier requires a little practice, C-tier requires some skill to optimize, D-tier requires a lot of skill to be usable, and F-tiers just plain suck. Two of the exotic glaives are F-tier, and the warlock glaive is D-tier.
Hot take, no exotics should be D- or F- tier, even if their weapon types are terrible.
I agree with that take remember when darci got buffed? Its still ass and should be in the special slot
I wouldn't call the glaives f tier, as at least the abilities do something. F tier is like using nlb in d1 pve. I'd rate the glaives as d tier
Thunderlord, Two-Tailed Fox, Wish-Ender, Wavesplitter, Worldline Zero, The Prospector, DARCI, Queenbreaker, Xenophage, Collective Obligation, Legend of Acrius, Eyes of Tomorrow…
@@kashema1810 I would say we can remove Two-Tail this season, since the suppressing weaken mod actually is really good for it. Eyes and Worldline are also novelties with skating and Eyes being just plain fun, but the rest... yeah they kinda need some help.
@@kashema1810 why are you listing thunderlord it does a fine job at ad-clearing and was never meant for anything else, really good to use in raid areas with high ad density
The best use for the titan glaive bubble is so you can create a safe spot to reload your slow as reloading glaive after throwing it down. It's like poetry, it rhymes.
I guess I'm truly the only person that thinks this way, but I love Glaives. Suppressing glaive is just insane and once you learn how to use the shield you can tank some crazy stuff. The melee combo is just a cherry on top as it gives decent damage for no ammo cost. I wouldn't mind seeing the damage and the projectile speed get buffed though, as well as have damage perks affect the melee part of the weapon.
Once the suppression mods are gone then what
You're kinda missing the point: suppressing glaive is amazing FOR THIS SEASON. Glaives already are objectively not very good - very fun don't get me wrong - but not great weapons overall. So when the ONLY THING making them good goes away, what then? They're super-slow, super-awkward pseudo snipers with awful damage and projectile speeds? The shield is great and all, but in any high-end content, is it not just easier to hide and use any other guns?
I guarantee a lot more people than you think do enjoy glaives - they're a super unique take on a weapon concept and at least for the Enigma, are quite versatile. There's nothing wrong with liking bad guns - I mean I run around with Last Word in lost sectors because I like the feel of the gun. Just don't be blind to them being bad...
@@sethlancaster9761 yeah I get what you're saying, but what I meant was Datto was saying they aren't good even now and I don't agree with that at all.
@@MrNuclearz objectively? They are not good, run literally any other special weapon and you’ll see what an actual effective weapon looks like
I'm with you. I think the raid and exotic glaives are underwhelming, but I really enjoy the craftable glaive. I think there are some legitimately good perk combos, and making enemies do less damage with the origin trait mitigates some of the melee risk. Suppression is nice, but I'll still be using this glaive when I don't have that anymore. I believe there are some interactions with the melee attack that aren't working properly, and that Bungie has said they're working on them.
I guess the big thing is to recognize that you have decent DPS with the melee (assuming you time attacks properly - if you spam it, you get pulled out of being able to chain the combo infinitely), and that DPS requires no ammo. It's a bit better than fusion rifles I think, though there is the caveat that we're talking about sustain, rather than burst. So better for straddling the middle ground between deleting majors and shredding minors in my opinion.
And sure, they may not be viable in GM content because of how every enemy nukes you - but a lot of things aren't viable in GM content because you have to get too close and enemies are too tanky.
But, uh, yeah, that ranged attack is a big oof most of the time. It lives and dies by the suppression effect. Still, though, I really like pulling them out in the right content. It's my go-to whenever there are unstoppable champions.
“It’s amazing what a good knife can do for you even as a kitchen casual.”
Yes, it is. Good knives are the one thing I don’t cheap out on in my kitchen and I’m not even a huge cook or anything. The difference is as night and day as having the right tool in your toolbox for the job at hand is.
The exotic glaives are useless. However, outside of grandmaster it is still useful (this season) to use normal glaives for invisible glaive hunter. It's not as easy as it was before the nerf, but is still usable if you remember to shoot it every so often to get suppression energy. You can still use it to do master lost sectors pretty safely.
I'm actually having a good time with the enigma and the hunter's void invisibility kit
The only time glaives are good are on invis hunter with the health back on melee kill fragment and pre nerf suppressing glaive, somethings gotta change
Great analysis! I still love glaives, though. They’re just fun for me and effective enough for what I play. The Enigma has always been fun and I just got Lubrae’s Ruin (just randomized drops thus far) and Edge of Intent, both of which seem pretty nice.
Edge of Intent provides a particularly nice balance between offense and defense. It makes short work of Solar shields such as those of the wizards at the Wellspring while allowing quick melee attacks, defense while reviving teammates, and extra healing to supplement one’s rift while being mobbed on plates. It kind of feels like Edge of Intent was made specifically for the Wellspring.
Skip to 2:00 to avoid garbage sponsored ad
Great video datto! at 3:55 when you had a quick stare with the barrier champion it made me laugh
The solution isn’t making glave shots have aoe. It’s making the mele more powerful and the shield more passive. It’s supposed to be a spear with a derringer on the end.
Not a bazooka with a bayonet.
W comment
Think about which one of those weapon combos sounds cooler and try again lol.
I loved your ad for this video, Datto. You kept it funny and light. And of course, quality content in the main video as well. You are awesome sir!
Honestly as soon as I saw the grind for them I said fuck that
I'm personally really loving my grave robber/ unrelenting enigma with the void aspect that instantly starts health regen on melee kills - gives great survivability even against hordes and honestly is just pretty fun
I feel like people forget the utility of the shield, in pve it basically cancels damage and in pvp it counters shotgun rlly hard doe it does require you to get a shot in before they get to you which is indeed a pretty hard feat. I do think the exotic glaive special shot need a rework bc the alt fire isnt as helpful as a damage canceling shield. I also thing they should rework the magazine sizes bc the do run out of ammo too fast.
Edit: just to add that this is from personal experience, i am nearing 250 kills in crucible and 15k kills in pve used in p much all levels of content, i do not yet have the exotoc titan glaive which sucks bc it looked more interesting than the hunter glaive. Also reforcing that glaives are indeed a mostly inferior option to other specials, imo, bc it asks for more skill from the player than your average short/medium range weapon.
I agree with all of that, I just recently started trying a shield build with it. Other than that I've been thinking about reload speed because of the same reasons you mentioned of the magazine
or you could just not be shot lmao, like datto says, you're more likely to die as a glaive user so the teammate rezzing capability is a minimal benefit
Yeah, having an exotic perk that wants you to ignore 1/3rd of the weapon's capabilities feels bad. I feel like there must have been some sort of design confusion when glaives were made. The projectile shot wasn't designed to be its main source of damage. It's slow firing, slow traveling, clunky to use, has ok damage, has a small magazine, and a slow reload. Yet all the perks for both the legendary and exotic versions are centered around the projectile with the exception of 3 perks that include the shield, and 1 of those still wants you to use the projectile. It's like glaives were designed by one team, and then handed off to the weapon team to make perks for and they didn't know what to do with them. "What's good on glaives? I don't know, let's just do what we do with guns. Give them kill clip, killing wind, rampage, swashbuckler, ect."
Geee just think how much more effective you could be if you put down the Crayola stabbing stick and stop being a special snowflake 🤔
@@underscore_5450 it's rlly sad that a lot of the perks just dont synergize with the stabbing,
Glaives have one place where they belong.
In the cosmodrome patrol.
The only time I found glaives fun past initial launch was when I was doing Alter of Sorrows and I could just smash the yellow bars for days. Then they nerfed that, because obviously something fun like that could only be unintentional. Now I, once again, don't use glaives.
They should really give the exotic glaives intrinsic chain reaction on the projectile shot. It realistically would still not even be as good as salvo or forbearance and takes up the exotic slot but among some of the other changes that you mentioned (impulse amplifier, perks applying to melee etc.) it would at least give them something. Like an exotic special weapon should be either good for high single target damage or good ad clear and this would throw them a bone and make it potentially worth the exotic slot. This could also help for synergy with the light 3.0 builds as well
I think it’s so cool that Datto posts these internal videos for us to watch. The higher ups at Bongo must be so mald when they see their lowest paid employee Datto posting his videos detailing the fixes they will implement. Thanks for fixing glaives Datto I cannot wait until I can rock my Enhanced Tilting at Windmills in the Glassway GM Nightfall. 😀
one thing ive learnt quickly this season with gms and the "burns" is that defensive supers like bubble and well arent the play anymore. banner shield is an exception cause you can be mobile with it. but endgame content feels so much easier if everyone runs offensive builds/loadouts
glaives are my go to weapon when farming gambit wins due to how easily you can supress a wizard and stop orgres/knights from 1 shotting you, but that's only because supressing glaive exists. After the mod goes away, glaives are going to suck even more than before
I've found that they're good for ad-clearing encounters like the Acquisition(First room) and Upended Encounters(Relic run) in base VotD. other than that they haven't really been all that important imo. They can be fun, but that's about it so far.
Two things about the glaives you're not doing right:
First you can shoot while the shield is active. This not only allows you to output damage while being shielded, but it also lets you refill the shield while using it, by damaging targets with the projectile. You can also hold the shield up while meleeing enemies. this won't keep it active, but will activate it immediately after the melee animation is done, including between hits in a combo.
Second the big damage from the Hunter Exotic Glaive is from the projectile itself. This isn't a Wave Frame GL. It's closer to a Rocket with Cluster Bombs. The wave is gonna come out after you hit something else with the big shot, even if that something else isn't the ground. The majority of the perks damage comes from the initial shot. By shooting the ground instead of enemies with that you're missing out on most of your damage.
I just want the exotic sword that is the fusion of the Half-Truths and The Other Half.
It's just that, Bungie.
Heres my plan: just make them work on sword energy: exotic perk takes up all energy, sheild duration based on energy, melee hits dont consume energy, and range attacks take 1/4 of the energy. add charge time as a stat in place of sheild duration.
glaives actually work pretty well with renewal grasps. We were using it in last weeks GM and with the massive close range dr and the bonus melee damage to frozen targets it was really getting shit done. They clearly still need massive buffs since this is such a niche use case but I figured it was worth mentioning
Bungie will nerd those too. Because pvp. Yay.
I used double special with agers and the normal void glaive in gms, it went alright honestly. The shield and resist I had let me clutch revives more than once, but I understand it’s like a shit sandwich most of the time.
13:04 What is that Screeb doin
Shocking…bungie made a weapon that doesn’t work in thier content
I wanted to say, Thank you for this video you said everything!!!!! I just hope they truly listen to you!!!! I just wish all classes can you use all of them. A hunter putting down a lil bubble. That is mind blowing.
If I made those exotic gloves. I'd make their exotic perks more like mini supers and able to change the element to have different perk functions. For example, the warlock one, when it's solar, it can drop a mini well of radiance with only rapid health regeneration. When it's void, it can throw a mini Nova bomb like the one by Savathun. When it's arc, it can create a small area of chained lightning with decent duration.
100% agree with the aoe affect. The way they shoot it just feels right. So much so I have, on multiple occasions, instinctually shot at the feet of at enemy, only to "miss" when it impacts the ground literally in between their feet. Even just a tiny aoe so that this does damage would make it feel so much better to shoot.
Glaive skating on hunter is a lot of fun. And since the exotic for hunter is arc so it’s a nice damage boost when actually using Bakris. They just need to do more.
Glaive during Acquisition and Exhibition is the best. Never die and have fun while I am running through.
I have a really really fun and effective glaive build on my hunter, but it's making use of what I'm assuming are glitches and I have to fully dedicate my kit to it.
So I run the hunter glaive with top tree Arc Strider and Sealed Ahamkara Grasps. For some reason, the glaive melee and projectile shot count as a melee kill for top tree Arc, which instantly refreshes dodge cool down. I then abuse the dodge with Reaping Wellmaker and Well of Tenacity (both melee and projectile count as weapon final blows). This gives me damage resistance almost all the time while I'm knee deep in adds. Then I've got Elemental Time Dilation to give me a longer duration on my resist (which gives me a bit of breathing room to run away to close the distance between adds) and Elemental Charge to fuel Reactive Pulse (for close range stuns on beefier targets). I'm also working on incorporating Recuperation on my boots for added health, but I haven't experimented with what parts of the glaive work for generating orbs.
Anyways, I open an encounter by dodging into combat, slicing, dodging, slicing, dodging, ect. If something's far away or I need to strip shields, I fire the projectile. Melee hits with the glaive proc Sealed Grasps, which auto loads my weapon. Not neccessary, but very nice, especially when I can't spare a second to reload manually. I spose I could always run reload dodge for that, but I prefer the distance gambler's dodge gives you for both evading attacks and covering distance between enemies. I get the super shot for the glaive charged up quite frequently. The hunter glaive has 6 in the mag and only requires 4 to charge and fires really fast. While not doing a lot of damage nor being as effective as something like Trinity Ghoul, I still find it useful when I get surrounded by too many melee adds or when I need to quickly disperse a crowd at a distance.
But yeah, all in all the build works really well. I'm still tweaking it, but once I can get it moving, I've had some good luck in endgame activites. Probably still not good enough for a GM, but it works for most other things. It's fun, but you really have to build into it being the only thing you're doing. Hopefully with some glaive buffs and the release of Arc 3.0, my build will get even more viable.
I actually just ran a glaive with Izanagi's in the Taniks encounter in DSC. That's about the only place I have ever considered them a top tier choice.
Defending my case:
We needed to run double special for Taniks because I didn't want to use a slug shotgun because I'd be relying too much on my abilities to clear ads. I chose the glaive. Ads were a piece of cake and so were the Majors and all without using ammo so I could use it to take out Taniks' thrusters to get the nukes.
That's the one and only place I would ever say that a glaive is a very smart choice.
I spent hours upon hours farming for armor Stat rolls, bow rolls, sword rolls and armor mods to make a fantasy battle mage build before the dlc dropped. I'm running an extremely specific build that was supposed to take full advantage of the glavie when it dropped. Melee damage increases, increased healing rifts and grenade energy for upclose combat, war mind cell explosions that heal me from all most any range. I had such high hopes for glavies only to find out that they were gimped from the start to not function with nearly everything I had built. I believe that if they functioned with melee specific abilities as well as had aoe on ranged kills they could be extremely good in mid to some end game activities. I get that Bungie was probably scared of the ramifications that would bring but they also stated that they want builds to be how we as players express ourselves in game. So far glaive just can't compete with anything and even in a highly specific build they are handicapped by bungies own design decisions.
this was a long comment, and i don't expect anyone to read it all the way through because that'd be unrealistic, but that's just how i feel about glaives at the moment-
i've honestly really loved using glaives wherever i can, ever since the release. my Enigma has 60 levels exactly because i used it until i got a decent Lubrae's Ruin, and i'll be spending the next few weeks getting a craftable one. I went flawless in trials over the weekend since freelance is the only mode i can stomach, and glaives (i used that same vorpal Lubrae's the entire time) actually came in super handy- if i activate big brain and lead the shot, i get shield enough to block a fusion shot and beat the shit out of the assailant to clutch hard, or just use it to track hard on a shotgun ape who ran out of ammo, and vorpal lets it two-shot titan barricades-
but now that you mention it... the seasonal mods really carry the glaives hard. the suppress-spam (and hunter invis jank that accompanies it) is really the only thing that makes it useful, since even the shield doesn't block 100% of incoming damage despite it being such a risk to use. I mean, first you need the charge, right? then you need to block, which loewrs your movement speed, you still take what feels like a set, minute amount of damage anyway (blocking your ability to rez teammates or pick up heavy where applicable), and then you have the horrific recoil (most seen when blocking scorpius turret shots), and to continue getting enough block to move back out of cover, you have to use all the ammo in your mag (which is pretty low by default). combine all that with the perks that are really pretty damn useless, it's an underpowering experience for all but amusement and fun exploits like the Mask of Bakris glaive skating thing, which in all honesty is amusing enough to be worth it's weight in gold when playing rumble.
if you ask me, the perks specific to glaives are the biggest disappointment. can you name one and it's effects off the top of your head? no, because you're looking for objectively more useful perks, like vorpal, swashbuckler, grave robber, feeding frenzy, normal frenzy, impulse amplifier... the list goes on. Tilting at Windmills? increased speed would be nice, if bullets didn't move faster than you can bring up the shield (also why the black talon catalyst is bad, but that's a different story), and apparently it's so underwhelming that light.gg doesn't have the raw stats for that buff listed on the Enigma. Unstoppable Force? same issue for the blocking, and the 30% increased damage would be nice if the projectile wasn't slower than half the people i knew from the special ed classrooms- useful if you're a god at leading your shots, but for 4s of a buff? probably not gonna be able to make the most of that. Immovable Object, i found as it was on the first Lubrae's i'd gotten, isn't that bad, but still isn't useful since that requires constant blocking to be active. so, tell me if you've noticed the problem with a lot of these perks; actual guns get access to cool things like chain reaction, dragonfly and more, but glaives only get... what, marginal bonuses to blocking? increased damage IF you hit your shots, IF you can catch the enemy attacking in a position where you can take advantage of it? at what point should we be stabbing someone instead of shooting them with a projectile that does barely any more damage than the sharpened edge?
so because i dislike whining without giving any feedback, here's how i'd personally adjust them;
Tilting at Windmills- have the haste buff apply to melee hit speed, increase the ADS speed (handling?) thanks to the enhanced perk, have the speed apply to the projectile- any or all of the above would make it pretty nice. i'd enjoy being able to poke things faster, for one, and you'd need block charge and to block something to pull it off.
Unstoppable Force- nothing really comes to mind to make this better without probably breaking it, but i'd say the enhanced perk should increase the damage on the perk (base 30%) instead of just buffing the timer (base 4 seconds). either that, or giving a fire rate buff of some sort would make it unique enough to bother using.
Immovable Object- this perk would probably work just as well if it was a flat bonus to shield duration. probably better, really, since it'd be more useful to shield, roll up to and/or past an enemy, in the off chance blocking is ever more useful than staying behind cover and using a grenade, or grenade launcher, or just taking potshots with a gun or something.
i haven't touched mine since crafting it, but according to light.gg, the exotic glaives don't even get any of those perks. all they get is a healing turret, a big ol' bell dome or a wave frame grenade launcher shot that's innumerable magnitudes worse. i don't even know how i would fix them. i'd sooner scrap them in favor of a universal glaive that the Fallen Wretch enemy type uses... but if i had to, i'd give the exotic glaives two charge bars total, so you have room to block, and the alt fire would use up to a single full bar, but activatable pretty much any time, with increased effect (and a single shot) for every third of the bar you charge, with a single bar being what we have now. also completely scrap the activation animation and just smack the thing like with Cerberus+1. that would make them unique, "useful", and pretty powerful, held back by how glaives work.
honestly what you said about the glaive abilities, being more like a new 3rd barricade option or another alternative for a healing rift. makes alot of sense, as for the hunters it could change their dodge into a shatterdive like balistic slam with a dunemarchers chainlightning. i def would love to see more barricade, rift and dodge options
I find using Glaives can be fun if you are willing to lean into them fully. My glaive built mostly into shield duration and using the shield. Since I use the raid glaive, I have the perk that increases damage of the glaive shot.
And I gotta say, it feels great in casual play (battlegrounds bosses especially)
For the exotic perks instead of getting shots to proc them there should be a meter that fills as you absorb shots with the shield. That would encourage you to block to charge the effect and make it much more fun to use.
I absolutely love the commitment to actually bite the s’mores box. 10/10
I only tried the warlock glaive solo, but the healing turret feels very... Limp, is the best word I can think of.
You place it, it spends a few seconds just dicking around doing nothing, then finally spits out a healing ball which takes its sweet time getting to you.
Nicely said datto.. As a recent returning player I was excited to check them out much to my dismay