@@Wilbursson my question is, how are you supposed to know who lapped you and who didn't? you need to memorize the numbers, or the shirt color? If it's not clearly indicated IMO you cant expect anyone to follow such rules. And what if such lapping guy joins the group, everyone behind him should become disqualified? Nonsense. This seems to be the side effect of doing a race with laps, and a one to accept.
@@kocot. yeah as someone who watches f1 shoulda known the rule...but it works differently. Since you ride in a bunch lapping the field on the leaders final lap could lead to some questionable tactics. But its not just lap races, pro women (2nd field) and semi pro men (3rd field) often overlap in gravel races effecting results. Opposed to the video's title theres nothing unfair here and like you said its just something to accept is part of the format.
@@tootles74 thanks 🫡 and yes it was one of my goals this year to get to cat 2. Glad I managed. Has been a shame my first win has escaped me, but that can stay on the goal list for next year!
It’s ridiculous that somehow others thought they had the right to dictate the progression of race tactics. By definition it is every person for themselves. I’m a crap sprinter. Why would I give up my advantage of stamina and good climbing performance because good sprinters would prefer I didn’t ride so hard so they could have a lovely little sprint.
We all play our strong suite for our best outcome . Riders get tossed when then get dropped . Nobody wants to off the back alone in Jamaica queens claasic
@@michaelgraycycling no. I did a few friendly time trials that have no relevance but understand the mechanics of racing a bit. That if a cyclists gets out in front with the wind in their face, they have to hold constant high power, whereas a group can take it in turns, "sprint" for a bit on the front and then take it easy blocked from the wind. Until duelling for the inevitable momentum overtake coming up to the finish line. On a hill, seeing as you can't block gravity. If you think you have a high power to weight over a longish time period, you can get ahead of the group and if you're below about 15 mph, you're not going to get much more wind resistance and may even cool off a bit better compared to a group shielding.
OK, I bike a fair bit, to work and MTB. I don't cycle as a sport. I don't find cycling, and the whole caterpillar of people drifting after each other interesting... until I watched this video. You're commentary for some reason got me very hyped. Bravo also for letting Nick have his photo-finish!
Haha glad to hear it! Sometimes it can be a bit boring indeed. But crit racing is pretty fast and fun I think! Glad you enjoyed it! The next race is up probably on Sunday. Keep a eye out for it 😃 May have to subscribe to get notified 😇
Yea it was great they was there for the race i upgrade in. Funny how I’m no longer a kid but they’re still keen to come and watch me do stuff like this! Hopefully it’ll be me and my kids one day into their adulthood.
Mate as someone who got lapped multiple times, it’s perfectly legal to draft on the wheels of the riders who’s lapped you. For as long as you are not obstructing the race.
@@genqua228 If anything, the lapping rider may not receive assistance from a lapped rider. This is to prevent shenanigans of a rested rider doing the pulls for the lapping rider
@@michaelgraycycling You could have got the win (or second ... I'm still not quite clear on why you didn't get second? Was there another rider that got away that you didn't point out during the video?) after all by getting Nick disqualified 😂
@@mumblecake251 there was another rider up the road. Who I didn’t notice and who I didn’t have footage of. Nick was a lap ahead of me. So I could only get 3rd
@@tedjohnson64 you’re welcome. Was on the very limit a few times in that race. The next race is even harder heart rate wise. I end up setting a new all time highest heart rate for 1 hour. Make sure your subscribed so you get a heads up with I post it. It’s a brutal race 😅
@@michaelgraycycling Indeed, I did subscribe! I have no idea how old you are, but I suspect... that you might be the exception to the rule that max. heart rate is 220 - age.
This is such a superb explanation of the tactics and strategy of a given race. Also, I am blown away with the telemetry showing the details of what is happening on course and your personal output. Amazing!
Thank you! Hard work gets recognised and it’s very much appreciated. I’ve just uploaded the latest race. Here ya go ua-cam.com/video/0b3CSmAr9YY/v-deo.htmlsi=jB6AlpAwEBVwvtro
Utterly, completely not cheating! You rode your race. Riding your own race you created a perfect opportunity to take advantage of a stronger rider. Chapeau!!! Fortune favors the bold!
That was a fascinating insight into cycle racing tactics. I've watched pro races on TV and have a general idea of what's going on but this provides an understanding and analysis that's on another level, well done!
That’s epic to hear that as sometimes even I get confused with what’s happening on tv haha! Have you watched the next race? It’s a lot harder and has weird dynamic with my team mate ua-cam.com/video/0b3CSmAr9YY/v-deo.html
@@ChrisPriceUA-cam yea as in every race, hindsight is a wonderful thing. If I’d have known how strong Nick was or who he was from past meetings I’d have made sure I was glued to his wheel. How long I’d have held it for who knows 😂 Monster.
@@paddymurphy-oconnor8255 it’s a bit bizarre and slightly complicated. I got lapped by Nick. But the other racer was maybe half a lap ahead of me. So technically in between us. So Nick got round to me and saw out the remaining laps with him. But the other rider didn’t get to me. So Nick 1 lap ahead. Rider 2, say half a lap ahead. Then me lapped but Nick. No idea if that makes sense but maybe that probably best way I can explain
@@michaelgraycycling The only way you could've done something wrong, if you sucked Nick's wheel for a few laps to catch second place if Nick managed to catch and lap the second place guy. Perhaps then there would be questions asked, and that's probably still a maybe. But the way it panned out, you got third and you deserved it. Especially the way it all happened. You had to make a jump to catch and pass Nick, and you did your fare share of work out there too.
@@peterlip8 thanks. And yea I agree, if we had caught 2nd place then I’d probably have felt a bit like I shouldn’t have hopped on Nicks wheel AT ALL when he pulled through after I went over the top of him. And I’d like to have think I’d have the sportsmanship to mention that to the commasaires in the scenario for sure. Fair play on the lad that got 2nd. He completely went under the radar!
I know its not a UCI sanctioned crit race but if it is "a lapped rider(s) should not give pace to the rider(s) who have lapped them" - that is the current standing rule. You will be surprised that even large numbers of world tour team riders doesn't even know the rule.
@@guicho271828 as lapped rider you shouldn't get close to the rider who have lapped you. Once you get close, pace or both ways thats automatic DQ. If you are out of top 3 and has been lapped,, marshalls should automatically pulled you out of the race.
@@Ghost12561 How are you supposed to know you've been lapped is the question. This is not Formula 1 where there is a blue flag to tell you. But it makes sense you shouldn't help the rider that lapped you.
When I started racing, I was taught that if you get lapped you don't do anything with the riders who've lapped you. No drafting or pulling, just let them go by. This is both for road racing and crits. I don't know if there is a specific rule about it or not, at least in America, but it is common courtesy. If it's not against the rules, what ever, you did nothing wrong. Update: this is from the USAC rule book, not applicable to you but in America it is against the rules For road races 3C3. A lapped rider or one who has fallen too far behind and is considered to be out of contention may be called off the course by the Chief Referee. Riders on different laps may not give or receive pace from one another. A lapped rider must not interfere in any prime sprint or finishing sprint and must ride sufficient laps at the end so as to cover the entire distance in order to qualify for a prize, unless excused by the Chief Referee from covering the full distance. For crits 3D4. Riders who have lost contact with the field, and are then caught by a breakaway from the field, may not lead. Riders off the front of the field may not accept assistance from riders who have lost contact with the back of the field. Lapped riders may rejoin and race with the field in cases where lapped riders are not being withdrawn by the officials.
Interesting. I guess though I wasn’t off the back of the field at all. So I don’t think 3D4 would be applicable anyway. As I wasn’t a dropped rider from the field. 3C3 of a RR though sounds different in terms of pacing one another. This race is was 45 minutes + 3 laps. So not distance based
@@michaelgraycycling Fantastic commentary and video, but perhaps chat with your local mates to agree on race etiquette, it is kind of a grey area. Your group let Nick go away before you attacked your way back up, which is not as clear an issue as if you jumped on and he towed you away. But like comeridewithmeAE, our local American culture frowns on mixing. The only time I ever lapped the field we just rode past the peloton and they didn't interact. The reason is we were a group of four, so the podium was still undecided, and any other riders mixing with us would have potentially changed the results of our sprint and finish order. Likewise, although you didn't know it at the time, there was another rider lapping, and if he was close and trying to catch Nick, he might have a legitimate objection to your sharing pulls with Nick. If you were teammates with Nick, it would clearly be unfair to intentionally help him stay ahead of the 2nd place rider, under our rulebook. If yours is silent on mixing with lapped riders than tactics like dropping back to help a rider finish lapping would be acceptable. But there is only so much road, and it is difficult to avoid some appearance of drafting if you are both trying to stay away from your respective chasers, so it is kind of a fine line between a technical foul and sour grapes protest.
Each and ever one of them had the opportunity to follow his wheel with you. They didn't have the gas left to do it. The leader was flying. Kudos for getting on his wheel. Great race.
I think it's really nice for Nick to finally get on someone's wheel, too. Even if you're somehow taking advantage of him, you're giving it right back to him
Apart from rule 8. 11. "Where lapped riders are allowed to continue, they shall not give pace or shelter to riders by whom they have been lapped. Otherwise, riders in a Road Race may take pace or shelter from each other but not from any other vehicle."
Damm nick was a beast 331 watt average vs 195. That really shows how much difference there is riding solo for a long time vs in a group. Congrats on that 3rd place and promotion.
@@Nelthalin thank you. And yea big difference. I imagine his NP would have been similar to his 330. With all my efforts during the race my NP was 241. Still almost 100 watt different
@@michaelgraycycling lol, I mean you can respect the watts but here in NZ it would be considered laughably burglar behaviour to enter a Cat 3 race and avg 33W for 50min.
@@cmathews1 Genuine question, what's the etiquette for someone who has a high FTP like a triathlete or indoor rider but who is new to crit racing? Should they not go off the front even if they could hold 330 watts for an hour?
@@cmathews1 maybe it’s different in NZ but I was under the impression that in most places your category is something that’s assigned to you, not something that you choose
I have no interesting in cycling but the commentary drew me in and provided insight on the psychology and mental games involved! Fair play on your 3rd place !
Only just come across your channel, Michael and despite having never raced before (and at 43, having no intention of racing in the future! 🤣), I found this fascinating and really interesting to watch. Great video and an awesome insight in to the tactics and your thought processes. Sounds like sour grapes from the other racers to me though, and you thoroughly deserved your podium place. Loved that your folks were there cheering you on, too. Hope to be doing the same for my boy in a good few years. Congrats on the Cat 2 level up too. 👌🏼
For what it is worth, I started racing at age 53. Only achieved cat 4 (one up from cat 5), and got lapped lots of times. But it was fun and extremely hard work.
@@lorenwillis425 Fair play. Maybe I'm ruling myself out too soon then, Loren. Friends do keep bugging me to join a few Zwift races, so maybe I should give it a go, as watching this video did make it look fun.
@@petertreadway much appreciated and I’m glad you enjoyed it! Never to late to start racing! 😄 and yeah it’s great they’re there. Even though I’m not a child any more and am in my mid 30s it’s funny how they still want to watch me compete in things 😄 Hope to be doing the same with my kids into their adult life also. How old is your lad,m? Does he cycle much? I’d love to get my kids into it, but they show no interest currently and I don’t want to force it on them and they end up hating it. I’m just waiting for them to find it 😆
@@petertreadway zwift races is what exactly started me off! In fact from the very first winter of me starting cycling. Check this video and you’ll see me when I started and my zwift races I Tried Cycling For 1,574 Days, this is what happened ua-cam.com/video/9LOPZk5U4Uw/v-deo.html
I am 100% in agreement with you, Michael. I've been a devoted cyclist since my teens in the mid to late 1970s, and, since the 1980s, I've watched tens of thousands of hours of cycling of all varieties, primarily road cycling. I not only support your view, I don't even UNDERSTAND the supposed logic of their arguments. If those guys had cared as much about winning during the race as they were AFTER the race, they could have helped you reel Nick in and not get lapped.
Yea is a shame. However when I was with Nick at the end he was truly motoring. It would have been extremely hard to pull him back anyway going at the speed he was travelling at. I’ve just uploaded the next race video. I hope you enjoy it ua-cam.com/video/0b3CSmAr9YY/v-deo.htmlsi=tF4GAKZSuB6Um3nm
@@mountainstatebikeworks5578no earlier in the race someone else went who I didn’t notice. Or have footage off. So Nick lapped me. But the rider who got second didn’t lap me.
@@michaelgraycycling I think I spotted the second place finisher get away. That 3 man breakaway at the 2:50 mark... They got away, then "Rodney" goes and 4 others hop on his wheel, so 5 are chasing in front of you. So you have the 3 + 5 = that's 8 in front of you. If you squint ahead, it looks like the 3 that were ahead, are now 2, and one of them is a bit further up. Sure enough, when you say it's all back together, you only catch 7 riders not 8, and you can see another single further up the road. Was that who finished second??? Or did you catch him at some point. Still 33k to go at that stage. Possibly he did get away, as there was a bit of stuffing around after that which would allow him to build the gap.
@@michael1 I am sure he knew he had the extra lap to do - he was not trying to cross the line in front of the other guy because he knew he had been lapped. So he did the extra lap after this. But the only possibility is that there was another guy who had followed the guy who lapped everyone and he hadn't realised he was still ahead.
The only reason that it wouldn't be allowed is if the races is specifically stated as non-draughting, and it must be fully advertised as such from the beginning, however, they're not usually at cat 3 level.
Congratulations on moving up! You did what you had to do, and it was a smart move. I remember one race where we lapped a group of 4-6 riders at the beginning of the final lap. I was at the front of the peloton and unobtrusively weaseled my way through the lapped riders, calmly rolled out a gap on the other side, and pulled ahead to win solo. My teammates noticed it but the rest of the peloton didn't. After crossing the line, I went back to admire the sprint for 2nd (which they thought was 1st). I was hopeless at sprinting. The day I "graduated" from cat 2 to cat 1 was memorable, one of those rare days when one can do no wrong. A cat1/2 race, I broke away at the start of lap 2 with a cat 1 guy, built a 1:15 lead, halfway through he wore out, fortunately a chase group of 5 caught of us, better yet including my mentor (who was fresh because he sat in given I was ahead). My mentor and I gradually whittled it down to 3, took turns attacking the 3rd guy, dropped him, then finished 1-2 (my mentor 1st of course). I got two gigantic trophies (2nd overall and 1st cat 2) and kisses from two Mexican-American beauty queens in traditional attire (the event was in LA, celebrating some Mexican holiday). Back to earth with a thud when I got home and my housemate exclaimed "YOU won THOSE???" In a week or so I was elevated to cat 1.
@@paulflory3532 that is a sweet move to pull i in that first race you mentioned. Nice work! And that sounds like a brilliant memorable day getting your cat 1 🔥 that’s what it la all about. Making memories and having a great time. I hope you enjoy the channel and give some more cool stories in the comments!
@@michaelgraycycling Neglected to mention that this gave me a real appreciation for the trophy girl thing. For a guy, exhausted after a tough race, there’s something wonderful about an attractive female stranger giving you a kiss as you stand on the podium. No idea if the same would be true if the situation were reversed after a women’s race. I do realize times have changed.
This is why I MTB. Less BS and so much more fun with the same candy at the end. And kudos to Nick for an awesome average wattage - 331 is pretty solid!
I am an old man now, but I raced in the late 70s & 80s. There has NEVER been anything wrong with what you did, and indeed... everything right. Things never change. There are always people who are whingey little zits who don't understand what it means to compete. Ignore the silly bastards. And congratulations! __NOTE__ that people dislike for making the podium just let's you know that you're doing something right.
Thank you very much :) what was racing like back then? Here is the next race video ua-cam.com/video/0b3CSmAr9YY/v-deo.htmlsi=jB6AlpAwEBVwvtro hope you enjoy
Fantastic race, how you can keep your heart rate above 180 for the whole race is crazy! When I get over 170, I start getting tunnel vision, even when I was 28 and running 3 hour marathons!
Everyone’s heart rate is individual and unique to them. That heart rate for you is probably the equivalent of above 180 odd for me. My threshold is 177
sorry to change the subject to tech for a second but, what program did you use to overlay the data? I have tried 4 different programs today and can't seem to to get it to work. Thanks for your time. 👍
As long as he was in the same category as you then its legal. No issues. However if he was in B cat and you were in C then it would be illegal to draft off him. Fair play to you... you had the killer instinct and desire...the others were happy to sit in and hope for the best.
Totally fair play what you did. You were clearly stronger than the others in the peloton, otherwise they would have grabbed your wheel. Nice work! and congrats on Cat 2!
all the cheating/not cheating discussion seems pointless to me, and an unimportant nuance. But that video has explained better group riding dynamics than all of the biking videos I've seen before.I don't do racing so the motiviation of people pulling the group (or not) was always a mystery to me.
Yea they did. The stupid thing was, all they had to do was continue to sit on his wheel in the first place, hold their good positions and just continue to let him lead them out. Think they got angry with their own stupidity
Hi Michael, I don’t mean to be dense, but can you explain the ending? Nick had lapped you, so when you got to the photo finish, should you have had another lap to go? And I’m still confused why you got third instead of second?
@@photog2903 hey not dense at all. And it’s a common question amongst racers. We all finish on the same lap as whoever crosses the line first. So if we get lapped. The winner is pretty much already decided. So we will all finish on his last lap. Rather than do a extra lap. Not sure if you watched the part of me talking to my mum and dad immediately post race, as I was confused too. But my dad told me that a guy in yellow snuck off away also in that part of the video. Someone I had no idea about and that I didn’t have on video, so he must have snuck off somewhere in the race. I hope that makes sense?
@@michaelgraycycling So the guy in yellow, second, he wasn't lapped so he had to complete the final lap, as the winner had done? But since everyone else was lapped, no-one else completed the scheduled final lap? So what happens if he has a crash and breaks a wheel - he can still carry his broken bike around the track for the next 15 minutes and still get second? And what happens if Nick laps you but then drops back and you cross the finish line before he does - are you still considered 'lapped status' because you were lapped at one point and can then stop? Or are you no longer lapped and therefore have to go around again? I'm sure it makes sense to all you racers but it seems a messy & convoluted way of doing things from an outsiders perspective.
@@chocolate_squiggle 100%. Racing isn’t usually this complicated. So I can feel your pain being a new watcher. Even racers get confused at times when lapping starts happening. However get lapped is fairly uncommon. In fact apperently it was the first time someone has lapped the peloton this year at this circuit. Anyway…. Yes 2nd place had to finish the final lap. As he was already on it when me and Chris rolled over the finish line. And damn that is a fantastic question if he crashes 😂 never even thought of that haha but yes he would still get second as everyone else at the point has been withdrawn from the race and positions given - I assume. Amazing question! 🤯 Lapped status - so technically if I rolled over before Nick. No I wouldn’t be lapped as he didn’t finish a lap up on me. HOWEVER as we both got given the bell “final lap” as we both crossed the line with 1 lap to go together. I wouldn’t have had to do a extra lap no. But yea it’s normally this complicated 😂
@@michaelgraycycling just by chance I saw it, I just happened to look right when the chain dropped. otherwise I probably would have missed it as well watching the video 🙂.
Hey I like the data overlay. What software are you using for it? I've been using Virb for years but it's a dead product and every day it still works is a surprise. Need to move to something else. So what are you using here? Thanks
Back in the 80's Connie Carpenter would often ride crits with the 1&2's. So as not to interfere with the men's finish she would attack with like 3 laps to go, and it was an unwritten rule that when Connie goes nobody goes with her. But every once in a while a newbie would go with her and we would be forced to chase them down, but afterward the newbie would be informed in no uncertain terms that you do not do that. FYI Connie would almost always ease up and get caught before the finish... but every once in a while she'd get sneaky and make us work for it.
Not cheating good strong race agreed with all you said. Interesting to see sometimes after a race people say and do things they wouldn’t normally. Maybe fatigue and frustration all in one 🤷♂️ P.s the like isn’t for dodgy cornering 🤪
@@leewood4825 yea probably just that post race frustration, we’ve all been there. I’d have just kept it to myself and accept its my own problem. And thanks, I thought I was going into the clubhouse for a second 😂
Under US 🇺🇸🇺🇸 cycling rules, as at least I understand them, what you did was completely allowed. The only thing that sometimes the referees will tell us at a mass start race is that if you are lapped, do not interfere with the Sprint. But that's in the circumstances of the opposite of what you did, you had one guy go off the front and lap the field through sheer power. The do not interfere instructions come from when you get lapped as a single rider, not the whole field. Plus also it's the job of the referees and the officials on the sideline to keep track of everybody and who's on the lead lap and who's lapped and who's more than one lap down. It's their job to sort out the mess that bicycle races can turn into for placing 🙂. At the races I do, usually at the local races and especially at the training races, they don't pull you. Now when I've gone to the big races even in the US cat 4, they will pull you so you basically don't get in the way. I went to Tour of America's Dairyland and Indy Crit series this year, and let's just say I was under trained, and I got pulled in more than half the races I did. But, it's not like I don't know the rules can't hang in the big times, you're out until you can. But when I do local races, I can actually finish, wouldn't say I was placing top five, but I didn't usually get lapped in local races, also not a national race. Local races the field is a little more even.
Yea I really wouldn’t enjoy placing people when there’s lapped riders. Especially if it’s a break that lapped the field and other riders from the peloton then joined it. Nightmare. That’s why I love races that use the timing chips, and also because I don’t have to put pin holes in the side of the expensive skinsuits for the numbers. And can just stick them on the number pocket instead.
@@michaelgraycycling where I ride (Oregon, USA) the OBRA keeps a camera at the start/finish line and requires you to wear your number on the side of your torso facing the camera, so they can always look at the video if needs be. I'm sure they mostly do this to review close finishes but it also helps in counting laps for lapped riders.
Always amazed at how bitchy mails can be towards each other, especially when they're not in the same gangs. So immature and toxic. And can't help their mental health challenges either.
After about 30 seconds I almost clicked away because I thought the title had been clickbait however I didn’t and I am glad I didn’t as I really enjoyed this
Almost did the same. But I haven't race for years, so it was a blast from the past watching and listening to your thought process too. Great vid Michael.
@@peterlip8 thank you! Lots of other videos on the channel to try and keep your attention haha has given you a slight bit of temptation to maybe race again!?
@@michaelgraycycling Ha. Tempted, but also not. My physiology is a sprinter, but my psychology isn’t. Raced in masters in my early 40’s, and really only did well in the road race season (winter), where the packs had whittled down by the end. The summer crit season I didn’t have the mental push to fight against bigger groups. Gave it away after a few years, mainly because of work/family pressures getting in front of training. Now at 58, I have more time, and really enjoying just being on the bike, rather than trying to fight for sprinters position in a large pack. I’m happy to just watch vids like yours. 😊
Welcome to Cat 2. Now the real fun begins racing against P,1, and 2's. We don't complain about who got lapped as long as they are not in the way of the field. Now you will see how spicy it can get.
Thanks for wishing me the best. People can have their opinion. Although the intro straight away does ask the question in the 5 seconds “I need your opinion, was this cheating?” The thumbnail title graphics has “was this cheating” on it. Which coincides with the thumbnail of a circle around Nick’s wheel which I’m holding which the other racers thought was cheating. Not to sure how that is clickbait. By asking the question was this cheating in the thumbnail and intro. It sounds like you’ve answered the question I was asking in the first sentence of the video with your opinion. Which sounds like you didn’t think it was cheating. But was hoping to watch a video where you think it WAS cheating therefor you deem it as clickbait 🤷♂️
@@michaelgraycycling 1. Thanks for sharing and the comments.good inside for anyone who is not into that sport.2nd. the title is "Cyclist Caught Cheating On His OWN Camera" and in my view that is clickbait, because that is what i clicked for .No Problem for me because this was very interesting to watch even without cheating.another title could have been " how i finally got my cat.2 race license" congrats for taht and good luck with the next races
Not how racing works..all races are supposed to finish on the winning riders lap, riders who have been lapped have their results denoted w a minus and number -1 or -2 in this race. That number is how many laps down when they finished.Riders who are out of contention by rules, depending on race announcement, if race is only recognizing or paying top 6 or 10 deep riders who are lapped should be pulled for this exact reason, lapped riders on the road should not be working with rider who have lapped them . This is becoming a huge sex issue in gravel and mountain bike racing with mass mixed starts w female riders working w male riders from another category of race . Categories should not mix unless race officials say so in advance and referee should have made a ruling about lapped riders before the race, not during or after.. many track races are won by lapping the field and then sitting in until the finish..many cyclocross events have riders finishing multiple laps down because spacing allows officials to keep track..in club racing you pull riders who are toast and may screw up and be in the way of final sprint..
hahaha that was very entertaining, I haven't cycled in years but I still watch pro cycling and this year has been one of the best that I remember. I've never seen amateur cycling before but this POV footage is great, good luck for next year.
Glad to hear it. It’s a great view point! Did you check the race out that follows up from this one? Here ya go ua-cam.com/video/0b3CSmAr9YY/v-deo.htmlsi=JjZNxPWA6alAMEU5
If the commissaires deem it according to the rules it's not cheating. However, rolling turns with a rider who has lapped you is very poor sportsmanship. He's over two minutes ahead. You can't use the excuse that everybody did it. Firstly, it was single file so only one rider did it, the others had to follow him to not let the podium ride away. Second, big difference with everybody getting a sit compared to just you.
@@brizziefritz4794 disagree, he came through me so I’m just going to hop on his wheel. If he didn’t I’d have just continued pulling anyway. Plus there was no need for anyone to lose his wheel in the first place.
Hello from the US. Nick is a Beast and sounds like you are also ready for cat 2. There was no problem at all with what you did, the guys in the peloton that got lapped and pissed about what you did are just stupid and not racers. I never liked people who sat up at the front, especially if its not their teammate. So I would always crank the pace back up. I came to race, not do a club ride. Good on you! Keep it up.
Yea man I’m there to race! If they want a certain scenario to play out it’s up to them to physically do it rather than moan and say it verbally post race. Ah well. Thanks for the kind words. Do you race too?
What you did was completely fair. Nothing wrong at all. Can't stand wheel sucking sprinters, who play games and then get mad when someone decides to attack from a long way out. F them! If they didn't like it they should have worked together to pull you back. Instead, all those wheel suckers played games and they lost. 🙂
Of course you did the right thing! It’s a race, if there’s a wheel you can get on, you get on it. It doesn’t matter how much time that rider is ahead of you, drafting and riding your own race are just called “racing”, not “cheating”. What the other riders complaining were doing is called “whining” and “losing”…! Congrats on moving up to Cat2, time to ramp up the training regimen😎❤
It is indeed, thanks! But first a little bit more chill for the off season before building back up again to next season. Got the final race of the year being uploaded today, hope you enjoy
for me the crazy part of all this racing is you have to think so much. I wouldnt be able to think of strategy at constant 180/190bpm that's for sure. So insane how you were also able to launch attack on attack. Congrats on making it. Interesting that their bad "decision" on strategy is blamed as cheating.
Thanks! Wierdly if I’m indoors training, I can’t watch anything when my heart rate is high. I just can’t concentrate. But I guess a race is different! :)
Everyone entering a race should be clear on what the rules are, and that is one of those rules that should be very clear in the rulebook. If it is not clear, it should be inquired of, or if not stated, then it can't be held against the rider. You could simply ask, "Where does it say I can't do that".
forget all the stuff, my goodness, the real star of this video is when you see who nick is on the podium. Was expecting ripped young dude but my god... fair play.
Ha - a 45 year old, past his prime, Dad who is desperately trying to fight off the effects of ageing, trains hard and tries to maximise the (limited) natural abilities I was born with.
@@verkxfnn Nick “has entered the chat”. Super glad you’ve got this video for the memories! I hope I keep progressing so that when I’m 45 i am strong as you 🫡 when the bloody hell was your prime though!?
Excellent sportsmanship my good man Better luck next time at least you got podium third place congratulations You did a hell of a job Even knowing I do not personally own a road bike although I have reached for a very short limited time on a full suspension RTS3 slightly modified mountain bike 50 mph technically 53 on a straight away and I do mean very short just a few seconds but what I'm trying to get as in on your training just for s**** and giggles try using a mountain bike with full knobs All I can say is my good man you will be extremely extremely impressed with yourself when you go from full knob mountain bike blasting down the road to a road bike going even faster Again excellent job 10,000 thumbs up and you'll get them next time
Great race and commentary man. Have you checked out Fresh Crits (Aussie guy)? I want to get into crit racing and Fresh Crits has been getting my psyched. This was a fun clip to watch!
Ah cool. I haven’t but funnily enough I’ve just watched a clip of his from the Amy’s grand fondo on Chris Miller Cycling. So I’ll have to check out his channel. Where are you from?
100% you did the right thing. A sprint for 2nd or 3rd place is a recipe for a stupid crash at that level so nothing wrong with you choosing to avoid the sprint. Not your fault that the others chose not to follow Mr Beastmode through who could have just sat at the back of the peloton but was obviously trying to set a PB time or something.
@@maniamuse1319 thanks. He went to the front for safety he said. Didn’t want the risk of anyone falling in front of him and it ruining his race! Fair play!
The rule I am aware of about lapping is that lapped riders should not interfere with the race happening one lap ahead of the them, which includes not doing pulls in the front but I don't know any rule that says not to try to stay on the wheels of the riders that lapped you. The only valid complaint would have been from the #2 finisher complaining that you offered a wheel to #1 and you robbed them the chance to catch them but I suppose the gap was so big that this was not a case.
@@michaelgraycycling I agree and, as I said, in this case there was no result influence. Nick's chaser was very very far behind. My comment is theoretical but something that can happen in the heat of the race and without ill intentions. If there was a rider 5-6 seconds behind Nick that you were not aware of and you ended up riding with Nick, that would be a DQ for you. If the circuit does not give you a good view of the situation, it may be risky.
Wait, what? Huh? I totally don't understand how you got 3rd. Did you have to do another lap when Nick went across the line & someone passed you? Where was 2nd place chap??? I'm so confused...
No. Didn’t hve to do another lap. We finish on the same lap as the leader. The guy who was second was never lapped by Nick. He went off earlier in the race and got away solo. So technically he was ont he same lap as Nick. Ahead of me. But I was a lap behind. So when me and Chris crossed the line there was technically someone in between us. 🤯
Nice video Michael and congrats with the 3th (2nd?) place! Though in (club)races in the Netherlands (where I race) this is considered illegal. When a person/group laps another group they are not allowed to follow/drag. But the rules should be explained before the race, so it's clear to everyone what's allowed and what is not.
@@dannytennisser thank you! 😄 This isn’t the case in the uk however it seems your country and couple of others have different rule. But also when I attacked I went straight over the top of Nick with no intention of using him however I couldn’t have helped him getting onto my wheel and then pulling through. And you can see 1 lap after the attack at 18:21 that my focus is just on keeping going full gas to get to the line as quick as I can regardless of him being there or not. Would that still have been the case in the Netherlands with me doing that?
Don't stress over it Michael. Its a chipper in the grand scheme of things. You performed well and looked like you were enjoying yourself which is what is should be about.
@@michaelgraycycling changed the rules then , I remember being assistant to the head regional Comm and he stopped the race because someone had a camera , was a good few years back mind , As for cheating , no it wasn’t ! They did it themselves , you just did a better job and that’s what they’re bitter about
interesting one! I actually wouldn't have been sure about this, but good to know it's allowed now! I might double check French rules for myself (I'm based / race there). I know people get crazy angry here if people ever even slightly draft on other groups during a race (we often have two categories racing at the same time, e.g. Cat 2 and 4 will be on the course at the same time - which is mad in itself), and people do get really angry if people even draft for a small amount of time. Great video though! You might enjoy my channel btw ;)
Yea that definitely is not allowed for sure. That applies in the races over here too. A lot of our races have different category races at the same time. The next race I did was a e123 and it’s on at the same time as the cat 4’s. You can check it out here ua-cam.com/video/0b3CSmAr9YY/v-deo.htmlsi=JjZNxPWA6alAMEU5 Are there many crit circuits in France? Not seen any ever pop up on my YT
@@timdgoodwin thanks Tim! I remember you telling me about the stupid amount of money you’d spend on bike items when we was in Marbella. And I’d think you was mental. Now I’m that exact person 😂
@@michaelgraycycling mountain bikes only at the moment... A custom built Geometron G1 and Trek Rail 9.8 XT Although now I've moved house I'm looking at road/gravel bikes again... fancy a steel framed Fairlight Strael or their gravel bike
Sorry, I don’t race, and this might sound stupid, but may I ask if you got third instead of second? Also, was there no second place on the podium? Oh, and great video! very easy for outsider like me to understand the race!
Thanks for the comment! You don’t see it on the video but my dad mentions it post race on video. There was a second rider up the road who got away from he peloton earlier in the race that I didn’t notice or have footage of. So although Nick lapped need. That rider didn’t. So he was 2nd and I was 3rd. He wasn’t on the podium as he went straight into the next race. Beast
Awesome, congrats! Do you keep your CAT2 license for good (unless you level up) or what are the minimum requirements to keep it going / can you get dropped back to CAT3?
Great question. So next year I’ll be cat 2 all year. 2025. To stay as cat 2 for the following year, 2026, I have to earn a minimum of 25 points. If I don’t then I drop down to cat 3. The only thing you can’t do, is end up going back to cat 4. If I want to get cat 1, I’d need to earn 200 points next year. Which I think will be a tough tough ask. I know people who get to cat 2. Find it so hard, that they make sure they don’t get enough points to remain so they can go back to cat 3 for the following year. I’m going to make it my goal for next year, to be competitive in e123 and remain cat 2. And realistically aim to win a cat 2/3 race, as I think to win a e123 race will be to hard. I’m just editinf the next video, which is a e123 that I did the following weekend after this race you’ve just watched. So make sure your subscribed to see how it went down. It was bloody hard! 🤣
I can see the argument for why it "shouldn't be allowed". But unless you have a rule that says you are out of the race when the leader is within 10m of lapping you(and a way to police that), it's game on.
since Ive been a sportman and also a gentleman in sports for all my life, I would say that when you sit behind someone who lapped you, you are cheating. - it doesnt matter if "they did it" - to justify your own actions, its cheating, if the rules for a race like that states that you cant sit behind someone who lapped you. yet I dont know the rules to a race like this. but the sports Ive been doing, ( kayaking ) - you are not allowed to hang on faster boats classes than your own "group" - imagen me in a kayak k1 ( single man boat ) being pulled by 2x kayak k2 ( two man boats ) and I just surfe the waves behind them all the way... not allowed !
@@dkphantomdk turns out it wasn’t cheating. Whether you see it as justifying in the video is for your opinion, it’s me stating that they was quite happy when they did the very same thing they wasn’t happy with me doing. Having to justify shouldn’t really be something I should be having to do on this occasion because it wasn’t cheating. He also isn’t in a faster class than me. He’s in the exact same race. So I’m not hanging on and using someone from a different race. Which also means it isn’t cheating. The result was it WASN’T cheating at all. The only people unsportsmanlike like and un gentleman like were the bad sportsman who were ungracious in defeat. If no rules are broken you shouldn’t act in that way. A “nice work, fair play, I should’ve attacked when you attacked” is how they should have responded. Vs throwing the toys out the pram.
@@michaelgraycycling like I said, I dont know the rules of the race, but if no rules are broken then its fair game and no cheating is detected ! - unless there is a unified gentlemens agreement in the peleton to not "do that".. but if there wasnt, then .. again, fair game, fair victory. noone should restrain them self in sports just because other people think "you should" !
@@dkphantomdk The whole peloton sat on the 1st riders wheel unless they want to be disqualified they should not complain. This is one of the reasons I do not do Crits! this guys done 90 odd races and never heard of this unheard rule lol
I've never raced a Road race, although you've explained what they were moaning about I struggle to understand why? A race is a race. No "in race" decisions by the peloton can influence the outcome. That's BS of the highest. Rules are rules. Don't worry about it.
Thank you 😊 have you checked out the next race? You can find it here. Hope you enjoy the channel :) ua-cam.com/video/0b3CSmAr9YY/v-deo.htmlsi=BZ5_HwlAmpJxyyON
Don’t forget to subscribe, you can find the next race here ua-cam.com/video/0b3CSmAr9YY/v-deo.htmlsi=jB6AlpAwEBVwvtro
His race was over. You cheated riding on the wheel of someone who should no longer be in the race.
@@Wilbursson we finish on the same lap as the lead rider. There’s no extra laps to be done
@@Wilbursson tf you mean his race was over, he had a lap to complete lol.
@@Wilbursson my question is, how are you supposed to know who lapped you and who didn't? you need to memorize the numbers, or the shirt color? If it's not clearly indicated IMO you cant expect anyone to follow such rules. And what if such lapping guy joins the group, everyone behind him should become disqualified? Nonsense. This seems to be the side effect of doing a race with laps, and a one to accept.
@@kocot. yeah as someone who watches f1 shoulda known the rule...but it works differently. Since you ride in a bunch lapping the field on the leaders final lap could lead to some questionable tactics. But its not just lap races, pro women (2nd field) and semi pro men (3rd field) often overlap in gravel races effecting results. Opposed to the video's title theres nothing unfair here and like you said its just something to accept is part of the format.
100% you did the right thing in this video,there's nothing wrong with riding your own race to achieve the goals you've set.Congrats on reaching Cat 2👍
@@tootles74 thanks 🫡 and yes it was one of my goals this year to get to cat 2. Glad I managed. Has been a shame my first win has escaped me, but that can stay on the goal list for next year!
It’s ridiculous that somehow others thought they had the right to dictate the progression of race tactics. By definition it is every person for themselves. I’m a crap sprinter. Why would I give up my advantage of stamina and good climbing performance because good sprinters would prefer I didn’t ride so hard so they could have a lovely little sprint.
We all play our strong suite for our best outcome . Riders get tossed when then get dropped . Nobody wants to off the back alone in Jamaica queens claasic
@@Chiller11 exactly that. Work those advantages!
It's usually not done due to aerodynamic resistance and fatigue, but a hill starts to make everything more linear and power to weight starts to shine.
@@TimpBizkit indeed. Do you race a lot?
@@michaelgraycycling no. I did a few friendly time trials that have no relevance but understand the mechanics of racing a bit. That if a cyclists gets out in front with the wind in their face, they have to hold constant high power, whereas a group can take it in turns, "sprint" for a bit on the front and then take it easy blocked from the wind. Until duelling for the inevitable momentum overtake coming up to the finish line.
On a hill, seeing as you can't block gravity. If you think you have a high power to weight over a longish time period, you can get ahead of the group and if you're below about 15 mph, you're not going to get much more wind resistance and may even cool off a bit better compared to a group shielding.
OK, I bike a fair bit, to work and MTB. I don't cycle as a sport. I don't find cycling, and the whole caterpillar of people drifting after each other interesting... until I watched this video. You're commentary for some reason got me very hyped. Bravo also for letting Nick have his photo-finish!
Haha glad to hear it! Sometimes it can be a bit boring indeed. But crit racing is pretty fast and fun I think! Glad you enjoyed it! The next race is up probably on Sunday. Keep a eye out for it 😃 May have to subscribe to get notified 😇
Ridiculous. I’m embarrassed for them. And the interaction between you and your folks was lovely! Nice job.
Yea it was great they was there for the race i upgrade in. Funny how I’m no longer a kid but they’re still keen to come and watch me do stuff like this! Hopefully it’ll be me and my kids one day into their adulthood.
@@michaelgraycycling And then you’ll understand completely the joy we get seeing our children happy. It’s incomparable!
100%. I love watching my kids play football on Saturday mornings. Not even a sport in bothered about until they play!
Anyone saying you cheated doesn't understand bike racing. Definitely not cheating.
@@KennyBellau thanks 🫡. Just race the bike and get on with it!
Mate as someone who got lapped multiple times, it’s perfectly legal to draft on the wheels of the riders who’s lapped you. For as long as you are not obstructing the race.
Exactly. In fact maybe I should have just sat on his wheel for the entire time and make sure not to obstruct him 😆
@@genqua228 If anything, the lapping rider may not receive assistance from a lapped rider. This is to prevent shenanigans of a rested rider doing the pulls for the lapping rider
So either it was all wrong 😂
@@michaelgraycycling You could have got the win (or second ... I'm still not quite clear on why you didn't get second? Was there another rider that got away that you didn't point out during the video?) after all by getting Nick disqualified 😂
@@mumblecake251 there was another rider up the road. Who I didn’t notice and who I didn’t have footage of. Nick was a lap ahead of me. So I could only get 3rd
I clicked for the drama, stayed for the captivating commentary 😅 very valuable insight into the race and a fascinating watch!
Haha thanks man 🫡🫡🫡 have you watched the next race that follows up from this one? ua-cam.com/video/0b3CSmAr9YY/v-deo.htmlsi=0PQPv3r9vhgBRJFm
The heart rate overlay was fascinating! Thanks for adding that, most videos I’ve seen just show watts and mph.
@@tedjohnson64 you’re welcome. Was on the very limit a few times in that race. The next race is even harder heart rate wise. I end up setting a new all time highest heart rate for 1 hour. Make sure your subscribed so you get a heads up with I post it. It’s a brutal race 😅
Yea. but hitting almost 200? :D I would likely puke, faint or both. Too old, I guess 170..5 is what I manage to get lately.
@@madyogi6164 yea I think my heart rate is higher than most people i see
@@michaelgraycycling Indeed, I did subscribe! I have no idea how old you are, but I suspect... that you might be the exception to the rule that max. heart rate is 220 - age.
Yea I think I am for sure. I’m 36. I think 😂
This is such a superb explanation of the tactics and strategy of a given race. Also, I am blown away with the telemetry showing the details of what is happening on course and your personal output. Amazing!
Thank you! Hard work gets recognised and it’s very much appreciated. I’ve just uploaded the latest race. Here ya go ua-cam.com/video/0b3CSmAr9YY/v-deo.htmlsi=jB6AlpAwEBVwvtro
Utterly, completely not cheating! You rode your race. Riding your own race you created a perfect opportunity to take advantage of a stronger rider. Chapeau!!! Fortune favors the bold!
Thank you. Regardless of whether he was there not I was going the moment it slowed up as it’s worked all second half of the season for me 😄
That was a fascinating insight into cycle racing tactics. I've watched pro races on TV and have a general idea of what's going on but this provides an understanding and analysis that's on another level, well done!
That’s epic to hear that as sometimes even I get confused with what’s happening on tv haha! Have you watched the next race? It’s a lot harder and has weird dynamic with my team mate ua-cam.com/video/0b3CSmAr9YY/v-deo.html
@@michaelgraycycling I'll take a look at the other video ...
Greatly relieved to find out you weren't penalised. Great video, well done!
Hey sorry just see this comment! Thanks very much :)
What sore losers! You’ve absolutely done the right thing. They’re probably gutted that they didn’t do what you did. Well done on third place! 🥉
@@ChrisPriceUA-cam yea as in every race, hindsight is a wonderful thing. If I’d have known how strong Nick was or who he was from past meetings I’d have made sure I was glued to his wheel. How long I’d have held it for who knows 😂 Monster.
How do you get 3rd being lapped? Lapped by 2 breaA then latch unto them as they go past the second time?
@@paddymurphy-oconnor8255 it’s a bit bizarre and slightly complicated.
I got lapped by Nick.
But the other racer was maybe half a lap ahead of me. So technically in between us.
So Nick got round to me and saw out the remaining laps with him. But the other rider didn’t get to me.
So Nick 1 lap ahead.
Rider 2, say half a lap ahead.
Then me lapped but Nick.
No idea if that makes sense but maybe that probably best way I can explain
@@michaelgraycycling The only way you could've done something wrong, if you sucked Nick's wheel for a few laps to catch second place if Nick managed to catch and lap the second place guy. Perhaps then there would be questions asked, and that's probably still a maybe. But the way it panned out, you got third and you deserved it. Especially the way it all happened. You had to make a jump to catch and pass Nick, and you did your fare share of work out there too.
@@peterlip8 thanks. And yea I agree, if we had caught 2nd place then I’d probably have felt a bit like I shouldn’t have hopped on Nicks wheel AT ALL when he pulled through after I went over the top of him. And I’d like to have think I’d have the sportsmanship to mention that to the commasaires in the scenario for sure.
Fair play on the lad that got 2nd. He completely went under the radar!
I know its not a UCI sanctioned crit race but if it is "a lapped rider(s) should not give pace to the rider(s) who have lapped them" - that is the current standing rule. You will be surprised that even large numbers of world tour team riders doesn't even know the rule.
Just uploaded the next race. Hope you enjoy ua-cam.com/video/0b3CSmAr9YY/v-deo.htmlsi=jB6AlpAwEBVwvtro
I am not familiar. So it is the opposite? (a lapped rider getting pace from the rider who have lapped them is ok)
@@guicho271828 as lapped rider you shouldn't get close to the rider who have lapped you. Once you get close, pace or both ways thats automatic DQ. If you are out of top 3 and has been lapped,, marshalls should automatically pulled you out of the race.
@@Ghost12561 How are you supposed to know you've been lapped is the question. This is not Formula 1 where there is a blue flag to tell you.
But it makes sense you shouldn't help the rider that lapped you.
I just looked that up. This seems to be the OPPOSITE, meaning the lapped rider cannot help the guy who lapped him. The opposite makes no sense.
When I started racing, I was taught that if you get lapped you don't do anything with the riders who've lapped you. No drafting or pulling, just let them go by. This is both for road racing and crits. I don't know if there is a specific rule about it or not, at least in America, but it is common courtesy. If it's not against the rules, what ever, you did nothing wrong.
Update: this is from the USAC rule book, not applicable to you but in America it is against the rules
For road races
3C3. A lapped rider or one who has fallen too far behind and is considered to be out of contention may be called off the course by the Chief Referee. Riders on different laps may not give or receive pace from one another. A lapped rider must not interfere in any prime sprint or finishing sprint and must ride sufficient laps at the end so as to cover the entire distance in order to qualify for a prize, unless excused by the Chief Referee from covering the full distance.
For crits
3D4. Riders who have lost contact with the field, and are then caught by a breakaway from the field, may not lead. Riders off the front of the field may not accept assistance from riders who have lost contact with the back of the field. Lapped riders may rejoin and race with the field in cases where lapped riders are not being withdrawn by the officials.
Interesting. I guess though I wasn’t off the back of the field at all. So I don’t think 3D4 would be applicable anyway. As I wasn’t a dropped rider from the field.
3C3 of a RR though sounds different in terms of pacing one another. This race is was 45 minutes + 3 laps. So not distance based
@@michaelgraycycling Fantastic commentary and video, but perhaps chat with your local mates to agree on race etiquette, it is kind of a grey area. Your group let Nick go away before you attacked your way back up, which is not as clear an issue as if you jumped on and he towed you away. But like comeridewithmeAE, our local American culture frowns on mixing.
The only time I ever lapped the field we just rode past the peloton and they didn't interact. The reason is we were a group of four, so the podium was still undecided, and any other riders mixing with us would have potentially changed the results of our sprint and finish order. Likewise, although you didn't know it at the time, there was another rider lapping, and if he was close and trying to catch Nick, he might have a legitimate objection to your sharing pulls with Nick. If you were teammates with Nick, it would clearly be unfair to intentionally help him stay ahead of the 2nd place rider, under our rulebook. If yours is silent on mixing with lapped riders than tactics like dropping back to help a rider finish lapping would be acceptable.
But there is only so much road, and it is difficult to avoid some appearance of drafting if you are both trying to stay away from your respective chasers, so it is kind of a fine line between a technical foul and sour grapes protest.
Who the hell thinks they can act as Patron of the peloton at Hillingdon!? 😆 Good on you riding your own race.
😆. Thank you mate 🫡
If a bike is on the track then it's in the race. No foul here just sore losers.
You know it 🤙 hope you’re enjoying the channel
Each and ever one of them had the opportunity to follow his wheel with you. They didn't have the gas left to do it. The leader was flying. Kudos for getting on his wheel. Great race.
Thank you. Yes he was another level!!
Great story - you kept me until the end. And Nick you are a beast
Thanks man. And yes he’s a beast!!! Hope you enjoy the other videos on the channel
I think it's really nice for Nick to finally get on someone's wheel, too. Even if you're somehow taking advantage of him, you're giving it right back to him
His legs must have been hurting!
Apart from rule 8. 11. "Where lapped riders are allowed to continue, they shall not give pace or shelter to riders by whom they have been lapped. Otherwise, riders in a Road Race may take pace or shelter from each other but not from any other vehicle."
Damm nick was a beast 331 watt average vs 195. That really shows how much difference there is riding solo for a long time vs in a group. Congrats on that 3rd place and promotion.
@@Nelthalin thank you. And yea big difference. I imagine his NP would have been similar to his 330. With all my efforts during the race my NP was 241. Still almost 100 watt different
@@michaelgraycycling lol, I mean you can respect the watts but here in NZ it would be considered laughably burglar behaviour to enter a Cat 3 race and avg 33W for 50min.
@@cmathews1 Genuine question, what's the etiquette for someone who has a high FTP like a triathlete or indoor rider but who is new to crit racing? Should they not go off the front even if they could hold 330 watts for an hour?
@@gamaradthey should enter at least Cat 2.
@@cmathews1 maybe it’s different in NZ but I was under the impression that in most places your category is something that’s assigned to you, not something that you choose
I have no interesting in cycling but the commentary drew me in and provided insight on the psychology and mental games involved!
Fair play on your 3rd place !
Thank you man! It’s cool that you’ve watched two videos and had no interest in cycling until stumbling in these videos!
Only just come across your channel, Michael and despite having never raced before (and at 43, having no intention of racing in the future! 🤣), I found this fascinating and really interesting to watch. Great video and an awesome insight in to the tactics and your thought processes.
Sounds like sour grapes from the other racers to me though, and you thoroughly deserved your podium place. Loved that your folks were there cheering you on, too. Hope to be doing the same for my boy in a good few years.
Congrats on the Cat 2 level up too. 👌🏼
For what it is worth, I started racing at age 53. Only achieved cat 4 (one up from cat 5), and got lapped lots of times. But it was fun and extremely hard work.
@@lorenwillis425 Fair play. Maybe I'm ruling myself out too soon then, Loren. Friends do keep bugging me to join a few Zwift races, so maybe I should give it a go, as watching this video did make it look fun.
@@petertreadway much appreciated and I’m glad you enjoyed it! Never to late to start racing! 😄 and yeah it’s great they’re there. Even though I’m not a child any more and am in my mid 30s it’s funny how they still want to watch me compete in things 😄 Hope to be doing the same with my kids into their adult life also.
How old is your lad,m? Does he cycle much?
I’d love to get my kids into it, but they show no interest currently and I don’t want to force it on them and they end up hating it. I’m just waiting for them to find it 😆
@@lorenwillis425 well done. It’s great fun! Where are you from
@@petertreadway zwift races is what exactly started me off! In fact from the very first winter of me starting cycling. Check this video and you’ll see me when I started and my zwift races
I Tried Cycling For 1,574 Days, this is what happened
ua-cam.com/video/9LOPZk5U4Uw/v-deo.html
Well done on getting Cat 2 mate 👍 great video thanks for posting
@@morgan349 thank you. Has been my main goal for this year. Just a shame a win escaped me this year! Hopefully next year
I am 100% in agreement with you, Michael. I've been a devoted cyclist since my teens in the mid to late 1970s, and, since the 1980s, I've watched tens of thousands of hours of cycling of all varieties, primarily road cycling. I not only support your view, I don't even UNDERSTAND the supposed logic of their arguments. If those guys had cared as much about winning during the race as they were AFTER the race, they could have helped you reel Nick in and not get lapped.
Yea is a shame. However when I was with Nick at the end he was truly motoring. It would have been extremely hard to pull him back anyway going at the speed he was travelling at. I’ve just uploaded the next race video. I hope you enjoy it ua-cam.com/video/0b3CSmAr9YY/v-deo.htmlsi=tF4GAKZSuB6Um3nm
Great narration. You have a gift for making these videos entertaining.
Thanks! Have you checked out the other videos on the channel?
I am puzzled. Who came second?
Yeah. Did Nick get first, and then also second because he passed the finish line twice before the next rider finished?
@@mountainstatebikeworks5578 :D
@@mountainstatebikeworks5578no earlier in the race someone else went who I didn’t notice. Or have footage off.
So Nick lapped me. But the rider who got second didn’t lap me.
@@michaelgraycycling I think I spotted the second place finisher get away.
That 3 man breakaway at the 2:50 mark... They got away, then "Rodney" goes and 4 others hop on his wheel, so 5 are chasing in front of you. So you have the 3 + 5 = that's 8 in front of you. If you squint ahead, it looks like the 3 that were ahead, are now 2, and one of them is a bit further up. Sure enough, when you say it's all back together, you only catch 7 riders not 8, and you can see another single further up the road. Was that who finished second??? Or did you catch him at some point. Still 33k to go at that stage. Possibly he did get away, as there was a bit of stuffing around after that which would allow him to build the gap.
@@michael1 I am sure he knew he had the extra lap to do - he was not trying to cross the line in front of the other guy because he knew he had been lapped. So he did the extra lap after this. But the only possibility is that there was another guy who had followed the guy who lapped everyone and he hadn't realised he was still ahead.
The only reason that it wouldn't be allowed is if the races is specifically stated as non-draughting, and it must be fully advertised as such from the beginning, however, they're not usually at cat 3 level.
Yea it’s not a TT 👌
Congratulations on moving up! You did what you had to do, and it was a smart move.
I remember one race where we lapped a group of 4-6 riders at the beginning of the final lap. I was at the front of the peloton and unobtrusively weaseled my way through the lapped riders, calmly rolled out a gap on the other side, and pulled ahead to win solo. My teammates noticed it but the rest of the peloton didn't. After crossing the line, I went back to admire the sprint for 2nd (which they thought was 1st). I was hopeless at sprinting.
The day I "graduated" from cat 2 to cat 1 was memorable, one of those rare days when one can do no wrong. A cat1/2 race, I broke away at the start of lap 2 with a cat 1 guy, built a 1:15 lead, halfway through he wore out, fortunately a chase group of 5 caught of us, better yet including my mentor (who was fresh because he sat in given I was ahead). My mentor and I gradually whittled it down to 3, took turns attacking the 3rd guy, dropped him, then finished 1-2 (my mentor 1st of course). I got two gigantic trophies (2nd overall and 1st cat 2) and kisses from two Mexican-American beauty queens in traditional attire (the event was in LA, celebrating some Mexican holiday). Back to earth with a thud when I got home and my housemate exclaimed "YOU won THOSE???" In a week or so I was elevated to cat 1.
@@paulflory3532 that is a sweet move to pull i in that first race you mentioned. Nice work!
And that sounds like a brilliant memorable day getting your cat 1 🔥 that’s what it la all about. Making memories and having a great time.
I hope you enjoy the channel and give some more cool stories in the comments!
@@michaelgraycycling Neglected to mention that this gave me a real appreciation for the trophy girl thing. For a guy, exhausted after a tough race, there’s something wonderful about an attractive female stranger giving you a kiss as you stand on the podium. No idea if the same would be true if the situation were reversed after a women’s race. I do realize times have changed.
Well it’s a bit like in boxing. They no longer have ring girls.
This is why I MTB. Less BS and so much more fun with the same candy at the end.
And kudos to Nick for an awesome average wattage - 331 is pretty solid!
Yea solid ride from him!
I am an old man now, but I raced in the late 70s & 80s. There has NEVER been anything wrong with what you did, and indeed... everything right. Things never change. There are always people who are whingey little zits who don't understand what it means to compete. Ignore the silly bastards. And congratulations!
__NOTE__ that people dislike for making the podium just let's you know that you're doing something right.
Thank you very much :) what was racing like back then? Here is the next race video ua-cam.com/video/0b3CSmAr9YY/v-deo.htmlsi=jB6AlpAwEBVwvtro hope you enjoy
Former USA pro.
No cheating detected.
Cat 3 groups are always salty. Lol
Well done mate.
Thank you 🤙 Do you still race?
Very well done, good on you for keeping your head high !
Thanks 🫡
Fantastic race, how you can keep your heart rate above 180 for the whole race is crazy! When I get over 170, I start getting tunnel vision, even when I was 28 and running 3 hour marathons!
Everyone’s heart rate is individual and unique to them. That heart rate for you is probably the equivalent of above 180 odd for me. My threshold is 177
sorry to change the subject to tech for a second but, what program did you use to overlay the data? I have tried 4 different programs today and can't seem to to get it to work. Thanks for your time. 👍
@@ratcheesemanify what programs have you tried? I use telemetry overlay 👍
Some of these guys use a great tactic. They go faster than everyone else. Others never seem to master that trick.
😂😂
As long as he was in the same category as you then its legal. No issues. However if he was in B cat and you were in C then it would be illegal to draft off him. Fair play to you... you had the killer instinct and desire...the others were happy to sit in and hope for the best.
Yea that would be cheating then. But no same race 👍 thanks 🫡 hope you enjoy the channel!
Totally fair play what you did. You were clearly stronger than the others in the peloton, otherwise they would have grabbed your wheel. Nice work! and congrats on Cat 2!
Thank you 😃 hope you’re enjoying the channel
all the cheating/not cheating discussion seems pointless to me, and an unimportant nuance. But that video has explained better group riding dynamics than all of the biking videos I've seen before.I don't do racing so the motiviation of people pulling the group (or not) was always a mystery to me.
Thanks glad you learned something 😀 new race video coming out over the next day or so
The lads saying let nick go before the finish I bet all wanted a sprint. Fair play you put it out there and won.
Yea they did. The stupid thing was, all they had to do was continue to sit on his wheel in the first place, hold their good positions and just continue to let him lead them out. Think they got angry with their own stupidity
@@michaelgraycycling either way nick is winning 🤣
@@JamesDownes yea! Beast!
Hi Michael, I don’t mean to be dense, but can you explain the ending? Nick had lapped you, so when you got to the photo finish, should you have had another lap to go? And I’m still confused why you got third instead of second?
@@photog2903 hey not dense at all. And it’s a common question amongst racers.
We all finish on the same lap as whoever crosses the line first. So if we get lapped. The winner is pretty much already decided. So we will all finish on his last lap. Rather than do a extra lap.
Not sure if you watched the part of me talking to my mum and dad immediately post race, as I was confused too. But my dad told me that a guy in yellow snuck off away also in that part of the video. Someone I had no idea about and that I didn’t have on video, so he must have snuck off somewhere in the race.
I hope that makes sense?
@@michaelgraycycling So the guy in yellow, second, he wasn't lapped so he had to complete the final lap, as the winner had done? But since everyone else was lapped, no-one else completed the scheduled final lap? So what happens if he has a crash and breaks a wheel - he can still carry his broken bike around the track for the next 15 minutes and still get second? And what happens if Nick laps you but then drops back and you cross the finish line before he does - are you still considered 'lapped status' because you were lapped at one point and can then stop? Or are you no longer lapped and therefore have to go around again? I'm sure it makes sense to all you racers but it seems a messy & convoluted way of doing things from an outsiders perspective.
@@chocolate_squiggle 100%. Racing isn’t usually this complicated. So I can feel your pain being a new watcher. Even racers get confused at times when lapping starts happening. However get lapped is fairly uncommon. In fact apperently it was the first time someone has lapped the peloton this year at this circuit.
Anyway….
Yes 2nd place had to finish the final lap. As he was already on it when me and Chris rolled over the finish line.
And damn that is a fantastic question if he crashes 😂 never even thought of that haha but yes he would still get second as everyone else at the point has been withdrawn from the race and positions given - I assume. Amazing question! 🤯
Lapped status - so technically if I rolled over before Nick. No I wouldn’t be lapped as he didn’t finish a lap up on me. HOWEVER as we both got given the bell “final lap” as we both crossed the line with 1 lap to go together. I wouldn’t have had to do a extra lap no.
But yea it’s normally this complicated 😂
@@michaelgraycycling Much appreciated. Best wishes continued racing.
@@chocolate_squiggle thank you. I hope you enjoy the other content in the channel 😃
Nought wrong with your tactics in my book. Well done dude😊 👍👏🏼
Cheers ✌️ hope you enjoy the other videos on the channel :)
2:15 wow, that man broke a chain.
@@lexington476 ah wow I didn’t even notice that bit. I remember it in the race though! Good spot!
@@michaelgraycycling just by chance I saw it, I just happened to look right when the chain dropped. otherwise I probably would have missed it as well watching the video 🙂.
@@lexington476 yea good spot! I wish I noticed it in the video now. Would have been a good little highlight
When they moan, take their numbers and bring them to the refs, informing them they came at you AFTER the ruling has been made.
Good idea. 👍👍
Hey I like the data overlay. What software are you using for it? I've been using Virb for years but it's a dead product and every day it still works is a surprise. Need to move to something else. So what are you using here? Thanks
Thank you. I’m using a software called telemetry overlay
Back in the 80's Connie Carpenter would often ride crits with the 1&2's. So as not to interfere with the men's finish she would attack with like 3 laps to go, and it was an unwritten rule that when Connie goes nobody goes with her. But every once in a while a newbie would go with her and we would be forced to chase them down, but afterward the newbie would be informed in no uncertain terms that you do not do that. FYI Connie would almost always ease up and get caught before the finish... but every once in a while she'd get sneaky and make us work for it.
@@markslempf9030 that’s cool you raced with her.
Not cheating good strong race agreed with all you said. Interesting to see sometimes after a race people say and do things they wouldn’t normally. Maybe fatigue and frustration all in one 🤷♂️ P.s the like isn’t for dodgy cornering 🤪
@@leewood4825 yea probably just that post race frustration, we’ve all been there. I’d have just kept it to myself and accept its my own problem. And thanks, I thought I was going into the clubhouse for a second 😂
Good win mate, there’s nothing wrong with using the rider in front as your wind deflector. Strategy always wins! Congrats mate!
Thank you ✌️✌️
Under US 🇺🇸🇺🇸 cycling rules, as at least I understand them, what you did was completely allowed.
The only thing that sometimes the referees will tell us at a mass start race is that if you are lapped, do not interfere with the Sprint. But that's in the circumstances of the opposite of what you did, you had one guy go off the front and lap the field through sheer power. The do not interfere instructions come from when you get lapped as a single rider, not the whole field.
Plus also it's the job of the referees and the officials on the sideline to keep track of everybody and who's on the lead lap and who's lapped and who's more than one lap down. It's their job to sort out the mess that bicycle races can turn into for placing 🙂.
At the races I do, usually at the local races and especially at the training races, they don't pull you. Now when I've gone to the big races even in the US cat 4, they will pull you so you basically don't get in the way. I went to Tour of America's Dairyland and Indy Crit series this year, and let's just say I was under trained, and I got pulled in more than half the races I did. But, it's not like I don't know the rules can't hang in the big times, you're out until you can. But when I do local races, I can actually finish, wouldn't say I was placing top five, but I didn't usually get lapped in local races, also not a national race. Local races the field is a little more even.
Yea I really wouldn’t enjoy placing people when there’s lapped riders. Especially if it’s a break that lapped the field and other riders from the peloton then joined it. Nightmare.
That’s why I love races that use the timing chips, and also because I don’t have to put pin holes in the side of the expensive skinsuits for the numbers. And can just stick them on the number pocket instead.
@@michaelgraycycling where I ride (Oregon, USA) the OBRA keeps a camera at the start/finish line and requires you to wear your number on the side of your torso facing the camera, so they can always look at the video if needs be. I'm sure they mostly do this to review close finishes but it also helps in counting laps for lapped riders.
Always amazed at how bitchy mails can be towards each other, especially when they're not in the same gangs. So immature and toxic. And can't help their mental health challenges either.
100% agree
After about 30 seconds I almost clicked away because I thought the title had been clickbait however I didn’t and I am glad I didn’t as I really enjoyed this
@@balljacksok glad you stayed for the ride! 🫡 lots more fun videos on this channel 😄
Almost did the same. But I haven't race for years, so it was a blast from the past watching and listening to your thought process too. Great vid Michael.
@@peterlip8 thank you! Lots of other videos on the channel to try and keep your attention haha has given you a slight bit of temptation to maybe race again!?
@@michaelgraycycling Ha. Tempted, but also not. My physiology is a sprinter, but my psychology isn’t. Raced in masters in my early 40’s, and really only did well in the road race season (winter), where the packs had whittled down by the end. The summer crit season I didn’t have the mental push to fight against bigger groups. Gave it away after a few years, mainly because of work/family pressures getting in front of training.
Now at 58, I have more time, and really enjoying just being on the bike, rather than trying to fight for sprinters position in a large pack.
I’m happy to just watch vids like yours. 😊
@@peterlip8 yea a lot of big fields when the sun is out at crits. And that’s fair enough!
Welcome to Cat 2. Now the real fun begins racing against P,1, and 2's. We don't complain about who got lapped as long as they are not in the way of the field. Now you will see how spicy it can get.
Done a couple before and yes it’s super spicy. Hopefully post up the next video of it today :)
All the best with your racing. Terrible clickbaiting though on the title graphics and intro.
Thanks for wishing me the best.
People can have their opinion.
Although the intro straight away does ask the question in the 5 seconds
“I need your opinion, was this cheating?”
The thumbnail title graphics has “was this cheating” on it.
Which coincides with the thumbnail of a circle around Nick’s wheel which I’m holding which the other racers thought was cheating.
Not to sure how that is clickbait.
By asking the question was this cheating in the thumbnail and intro. It sounds like you’ve answered the question I was asking in the first sentence of the video with your opinion. Which sounds like you didn’t think it was cheating. But was hoping to watch a video where you think it WAS cheating therefor you deem it as clickbait 🤷♂️
@@michaelgraycycling 1. Thanks for sharing and the comments.good inside for anyone who is not into that sport.2nd. the title is "Cyclist Caught Cheating On His OWN Camera" and in my view that is clickbait, because that is what i clicked for .No Problem for me because this was very interesting to watch even without cheating.another title could have been " how i finally got my cat.2 race license" congrats for taht and good luck with the next races
As a track cyclist "wtf were they thinking?"
Yup 🤷♂️ hope you enjoy the Channel :)
I don't understand, who's second then ? Someone you lost track of during the race ?
@@furrane yea! Someone snuck off earlier in the race and I didn’t realise. Went completely under my radar! It happens.
You did nothing wrong, the peloton does not get to make rules up on how the race is going to finish. Well done, and fun to watch.
Thanks! Hope you enjoy the other videos in the channel 🤙
How come you can finish your race at the same time as a rider who lapped you ?
Don't you have one more lap to do to finish the race ?
I'm confused.
Not how racing works..all races are supposed to finish on the winning riders lap, riders who have been lapped have their results denoted w a minus and number -1 or -2 in this race. That number is how many laps down when they finished.Riders who are out of contention by rules, depending on race announcement, if race is only recognizing or paying top 6 or 10 deep riders who are lapped should be pulled for this exact reason, lapped riders on the road should not be working with rider who have lapped them . This is becoming a huge sex issue in gravel and mountain bike racing with mass mixed starts w female riders working w male riders from another category of race . Categories should not mix unless race officials say so in advance and referee should have made a ruling about lapped riders before the race, not during or after.. many track races are won by lapping the field and then sitting in until the finish..many cyclocross events have riders finishing multiple laps down because spacing allows officials to keep track..in club racing you pull riders who are toast and may screw up and be in the way of final sprint..
What Randy said 🙂
hahaha that was very entertaining, I haven't cycled in years but I still watch pro cycling and this year has been one of the best that I remember. I've never seen amateur cycling before but this POV footage is great, good luck for next year.
Glad to hear it. It’s a great view point! Did you check the race out that follows up from this one? Here ya go ua-cam.com/video/0b3CSmAr9YY/v-deo.htmlsi=JjZNxPWA6alAMEU5
You pulled a Remco. Nice.
@@allanwarsing I’ll take that!
Sick mate earned my sub what glasses are those?
Thanks! Lots more on the channel too 😀 Oakley Kato’s I think they’re called
Absolutely fair play! Your only mistake is underestimating that bloke Nick aka Pogi Jr.
I advocate for Cat 3 blood passport 🤣🤣🤣
@@christophercortes1524 yea if only I knew he was! 😂
Congratulations on getting your Cat 2 license for next year Michael!! 💪🏼💪🏼👌🏻
Thank you appreciate it ✌️
Brilliantly conducted 👍🏽 Reminded me of when I went from Cat 3 to Cat 2 many decades ago... Bravo!
Wondering how you inserted your in motion ride data into this video also?
@@landsurfingpro3370 brilliant, how did it happen?
@@landsurfingpro3370 i use telemetry overlay 🫡
@@michaelgraycycling is that a feature of your bike computer? How does one access it and import it into a recorded video from a GoPro or iPhone or ?
Is telemetry overlay an app?
If the commissaires deem it according to the rules it's not cheating. However, rolling turns with a rider who has lapped you is very poor sportsmanship. He's over two minutes ahead.
You can't use the excuse that everybody did it. Firstly, it was single file so only one rider did it, the others had to follow him to not let the podium ride away. Second, big difference with everybody getting a sit compared to just you.
@@brizziefritz4794 disagree, he came through me so I’m just going to hop on his wheel. If he didn’t I’d have just continued pulling anyway. Plus there was no need for anyone to lose his wheel in the first place.
Im a mtb'er but even i know when to push, good on you & the commentry was very intense
Thanks. Hope you enjoy the channel. ✌️
Great video. What do you use for the stats overlay on your video?
I use this goprotelemetryextractor.com
Hello from the US. Nick is a Beast and sounds like you are also ready for cat 2. There was no problem at all with what you did, the guys in the peloton that got lapped and pissed about what you did are just stupid and not racers. I never liked people who sat up at the front, especially if its not their teammate. So I would always crank the pace back up. I came to race, not do a club ride. Good on you! Keep it up.
Yea man I’m there to race! If they want a certain scenario to play out it’s up to them to physically do it rather than moan and say it verbally post race. Ah well.
Thanks for the kind words. Do you race too?
What you did was completely fair. Nothing wrong at all. Can't stand wheel sucking sprinters, who play games and then get mad when someone decides to attack from a long way out. F them! If they didn't like it they should have worked together to pull you back. Instead, all those wheel suckers played games and they lost. 🙂
Exactly. 🫡 do you race much?
@@michaelgraycycling Used to, but not anymore. Good luck with CAT 2 going forward!
Your story telling technique is superb!
Thank you 😃
@@michaelgraycycling most welcome. I intend to give you as many watch hours as possible. One of the best cycling UA-cam channel
Of course you did the right thing! It’s a race, if there’s a wheel you can get on, you get on it. It doesn’t matter how much time that rider is ahead of you, drafting and riding your own race are just called “racing”, not “cheating”. What the other riders complaining were doing is called “whining” and “losing”…! Congrats on moving up to Cat2, time to ramp up the training regimen😎❤
It is indeed, thanks! But first a little bit more chill for the off season before building back up again to next season. Got the final race of the year being uploaded today, hope you enjoy
The only thing I understood throughout that whole thing was "I'm not here to muck about."
@@markhayes789 that’s all you need to know 😂 do you normally watch racing?
So happy to only race MTB, without all these tedious tactical considerations.
@@petersilie2432 makes it fun 😄 mtb looks great though, I just don’t think I could fly over the jumps etc!
for me the crazy part of all this racing is you have to think so much. I wouldnt be able to think of strategy at constant 180/190bpm that's for sure. So insane how you were also able to launch attack on attack. Congrats on making it. Interesting that their bad "decision" on strategy is blamed as cheating.
Thanks! Wierdly if I’m indoors training, I can’t watch anything when my heart rate is high. I just can’t concentrate. But I guess a race is different! :)
Solid effort! I saw nothing illegal. My heart would have absolutely exploded at 195bpm.
😆 I know the feeling. The next race in about to post up is a all time highest heart rate for 1 hour
Everyone entering a race should be clear on what the rules are, and that is one of those rules that should be very clear in the rulebook. If it is not clear, it should be inquired of, or if not stated, then it can't be held against the rider. You could simply ask, "Where does it say I can't do that".
@@deanwilkendorf5304 exactly. And considering they was holding his wheel the laps prior. They answered their question with their own actions prior.
forget all the stuff, my goodness, the real star of this video is when you see who nick is on the podium. Was expecting ripped young dude but my god... fair play.
@@wretchedworm haha yea just a power house
Ha - a 45 year old, past his prime, Dad who is desperately trying to fight off the effects of ageing, trains hard and tries to maximise the (limited) natural abilities I was born with.
@@verkxfnn That was you? Well, if so: limited? Those are some pretty wild numbers for a 45-year-old amateur. If you've got kids, get'm into cycling.
@@wretchedworm thanks, unfortunately, my son prefers Fortnite to Zwift, but working on it 😂.
@@verkxfnn Nick “has entered the chat”. Super glad you’ve got this video for the memories! I hope I keep progressing so that when I’m 45 i am strong as you 🫡 when the bloody hell was your prime though!?
Absolutely amazing race mate. Love your content! Deserve a sub!
Thank you. I hope you enjoy the channel. Thanks for the sub!
Excellent sportsmanship my good man
Better luck next time at least you got podium third place congratulations You did a hell of a job
Even knowing I do not personally own a road bike although I have reached for a very short limited time on a full suspension RTS3 slightly modified mountain bike 50 mph technically 53 on a straight away and I do mean very short just a few seconds but what I'm trying to get as in on your training just for s**** and giggles try using a mountain bike with full knobs
All I can say is my good man you will be extremely extremely impressed with yourself when you go from full knob mountain bike blasting down the road to a road bike going even faster
Again excellent job 10,000 thumbs up and you'll get them next time
Thank you 👊
18:21 that view right there, that totally says from Star Wars 'we’re going in, we’re going in full throttle'.
Great race and commentary man. Have you checked out Fresh Crits (Aussie guy)? I want to get into crit racing and Fresh Crits has been getting my psyched. This was a fun clip to watch!
Ah cool. I haven’t but funnily enough I’ve just watched a clip of his from the Amy’s grand fondo on Chris Miller Cycling. So I’ll have to check out his channel. Where are you from?
@@michaelgraycycling Darwin. Australia. Hot and Humid AF. Just on a year anniversary into cycling.
Ah brilliant. Sounds like you’re loving it if you’re looking at crits! This is my journey > ua-cam.com/video/9LOPZk5U4Uw/v-deo.htmlsi=_ssGFB945U4y6t6k
I'm intrigued that the lapped riders, including Michael, appear not to have been required to do another lap.
We finish on the lead riders lap. :)
never seen this sort of filmed race before. I was pumping along a bit there in my seat!
Thanks! Hope you enjoyed it! Plenty other races on this channel 😀 do you race?
New subscriber here.
Really enjoyed your video. Keep up the good work
@@nolangoldberger2921 howdy 🫡 Hope you enjoy the other videos on the channel
100% you did the right thing. A sprint for 2nd or 3rd place is a recipe for a stupid crash at that level so nothing wrong with you choosing to avoid the sprint. Not your fault that the others chose not to follow Mr Beastmode through who could have just sat at the back of the peloton but was obviously trying to set a PB time or something.
@@maniamuse1319 thanks. He went to the front for safety he said. Didn’t want the risk of anyone falling in front of him and it ruining his race! Fair play!
The rule I am aware of about lapping is that lapped riders should not interfere with the race happening one lap ahead of the them, which includes not doing pulls in the front but I don't know any rule that says not to try to stay on the wheels of the riders that lapped you. The only valid complaint would have been from the #2 finisher complaining that you offered a wheel to #1 and you robbed them the chance to catch them but I suppose the gap was so big that this was not a case.
For sure. But also I can’t do much about it if Nick jumps on my wheel when I ride past him in the final few laps
@@michaelgraycycling I agree and, as I said, in this case there was no result influence. Nick's chaser was very very far behind. My comment is theoretical but something that can happen in the heat of the race and without ill intentions. If there was a rider 5-6 seconds behind Nick that you were not aware of and you ended up riding with Nick, that would be a DQ for you. If the circuit does not give you a good view of the situation, it may be risky.
Wait, what?
Huh?
I totally don't understand how you got 3rd.
Did you have to do another lap when Nick went across the line & someone passed you?
Where was 2nd place chap???
I'm so confused...
No. Didn’t hve to do another lap. We finish on the same lap as the leader.
The guy who was second was never lapped by Nick. He went off earlier in the race and got away solo. So technically he was ont he same lap as Nick. Ahead of me. But I was a lap behind. So when me and Chris crossed the line there was technically someone in between us.
🤯
Nice video, great commentary as well, loved it!
@@dar1e thank you. Next race should be up later today or tomorrow. Make sure your subscribed to check it out. Hope you enjoy the channel :)
Nice video Michael and congrats with the 3th (2nd?) place! Though in (club)races in the Netherlands (where I race) this is considered illegal. When a person/group laps another group they are not allowed to follow/drag. But the rules should be explained before the race, so it's clear to everyone what's allowed and what is not.
@@dannytennisser thank you! 😄
This isn’t the case in the uk however it seems your country and couple of others have different rule.
But also when I attacked I went straight over the top of Nick with no intention of using him however I couldn’t have helped him getting onto my wheel and then pulling through. And you can see 1 lap after the attack at 18:21 that my focus is just on keeping going full gas to get to the line as quick as I can regardless of him being there or not. Would that still have been the case in the Netherlands with me doing that?
Don't stress over it Michael. Its a chipper in the grand scheme of things. You performed well and looked like you were enjoying yourself which is what is should be about.
@@michaelcripps131 thanks Mike! Missed not bumping into you at races this year!
As a former commissaire I’m more concerned that you have a camera on your bike
@@TheresNoPlacelikeDrone it’s allowed :)
@@michaelgraycycling changed the rules then , I remember being assistant to the head regional Comm and he stopped the race because someone had a camera , was a good few years back mind ,
As for cheating , no it wasn’t ! They did it themselves , you just did a better job and that’s what they’re bitter about
Many thanks. What area did you commissaire in?
@@michaelgraycycling Reginal Road
interesting one! I actually wouldn't have been sure about this, but good to know it's allowed now! I might double check French rules for myself (I'm based / race there). I know people get crazy angry here if people ever even slightly draft on other groups during a race (we often have two categories racing at the same time, e.g. Cat 2 and 4 will be on the course at the same time - which is mad in itself), and people do get really angry if people even draft for a small amount of time. Great video though! You might enjoy my channel btw ;)
Yea that definitely is not allowed for sure. That applies in the races over here too. A lot of our races have different category races at the same time. The next race I did was a e123 and it’s on at the same time as the cat 4’s. You can check it out here ua-cam.com/video/0b3CSmAr9YY/v-deo.htmlsi=JjZNxPWA6alAMEU5
Are there many crit circuits in France? Not seen any ever pop up on my YT
Such a great video man nice work! I subbed so imma go watch your next vid
Thanks! ✌️ hope you enjoy the channel
Solid racing chap, congrats on making cat 2 🎉
@@timdgoodwin thanks Tim! I remember you telling me about the stupid amount of money you’d spend on bike items when we was in Marbella. And I’d think you was mental. Now I’m that exact person 😂
@@michaelgraycycling don't worry, I'm still spending stupid amounts of money on bikes too 🤣
What bike do you have right now?
@@michaelgraycycling mountain bikes only at the moment... A custom built Geometron G1 and Trek Rail 9.8 XT
Although now I've moved house I'm looking at road/gravel bikes again... fancy a steel framed Fairlight Strael or their gravel bike
Where have you moved to? Well if you get a road bike hopefully we can get on a ride one day
Sorry, I don’t race, and this might sound stupid, but may I ask if you got third instead of second? Also, was there no second place on the podium?
Oh, and great video! very easy for outsider like me to understand the race!
Thanks for the comment! You don’t see it on the video but my dad mentions it post race on video. There was a second rider up the road who got away from he peloton earlier in the race that I didn’t notice or have footage of. So although Nick lapped need. That rider didn’t. So he was 2nd and I was 3rd.
He wasn’t on the podium as he went straight into the next race. Beast
@@michaelgraycyclingYou actually showed him going off the front at 14:17.
Awesome, congrats! Do you keep your CAT2 license for good (unless you level up) or what are the minimum requirements to keep it going / can you get dropped back to CAT3?
Great question.
So next year I’ll be cat 2 all year. 2025.
To stay as cat 2 for the following year, 2026, I have to earn a minimum of 25 points. If I don’t then I drop down to cat 3.
The only thing you can’t do, is end up going back to cat 4.
If I want to get cat 1, I’d need to earn 200 points next year. Which I think will be a tough tough ask.
I know people who get to cat 2. Find it so hard, that they make sure they don’t get enough points to remain so they can go back to cat 3 for the following year.
I’m going to make it my goal for next year, to be competitive in e123 and remain cat 2. And realistically aim to win a cat 2/3 race, as I think to win a e123 race will be to hard.
I’m just editinf the next video, which is a e123 that I did the following weekend after this race you’ve just watched. So make sure your subscribed to see how it went down. It was bloody hard! 🤣
@@michaelgraycycling thanks; amazing answer!
Your welcome. Do you race?
well done man, nice race!!!!
Thank you 😄 have you checked out the next one? Was a killer and a lot harder!
ua-cam.com/video/0b3CSmAr9YY/v-deo.html
I can see the argument for why it "shouldn't be allowed".
But unless you have a rule that says you are out of the race when the leader is within 10m of lapping you(and a way to police that), it's game on.
Game on. I was just focused in trying to get the best possible result I could get after that!
since Ive been a sportman and also a gentleman in sports for all my life, I would say that when you sit behind someone who lapped you, you are cheating.
- it doesnt matter if "they did it" - to justify your own actions, its cheating, if the rules for a race like that states that you cant sit behind someone who lapped you.
yet I dont know the rules to a race like this.
but the sports Ive been doing, ( kayaking ) - you are not allowed to hang on faster boats classes than your own "group"
- imagen me in a kayak k1 ( single man boat ) being pulled by 2x kayak k2 ( two man boats ) and I just surfe the waves behind them all the way... not allowed !
@@dkphantomdk turns out it wasn’t cheating. Whether you see it as justifying in the video is for your opinion, it’s me stating that they was quite happy when they did the very same thing they wasn’t happy with me doing. Having to justify shouldn’t really be something I should be having to do on this occasion because it wasn’t cheating.
He also isn’t in a faster class than me. He’s in the exact same race. So I’m not hanging on and using someone from a different race. Which also means it isn’t cheating.
The result was it WASN’T cheating at all. The only people unsportsmanlike like and un gentleman like were the bad sportsman who were ungracious in defeat. If no rules are broken you shouldn’t act in that way. A “nice work, fair play, I should’ve attacked when you attacked” is how they should have responded. Vs throwing the toys out the pram.
@@michaelgraycycling like I said, I dont know the rules of the race, but if no rules are broken then its fair game and no cheating is detected !
- unless there is a unified gentlemens agreement in the peleton to not "do that".. but if there wasnt, then .. again, fair game, fair victory.
noone should restrain them self in sports just because other people think "you should" !
@@dkphantomdk The whole peloton sat on the 1st riders wheel unless they want to be disqualified they should not complain. This is one of the reasons I do not do Crits! this guys done 90 odd races and never heard of this unheard rule lol
I've never raced a Road race, although you've explained what they were moaning about I struggle to understand why? A race is a race. No "in race" decisions by the peloton can influence the outcome. That's BS of the highest. Rules are rules. Don't worry about it.
Thank you 😊 have you checked out the next race? You can find it here. Hope you enjoy the channel :) ua-cam.com/video/0b3CSmAr9YY/v-deo.htmlsi=BZ5_HwlAmpJxyyON