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My husband and I watched this a few weeks after we decided NOT to get divorced. This movie made us realize that whether we stayed married or not, we had to fix our relationship because getting a divorce was not the end of our relationship. A year and a half and lots of work later, we're better than ever. I'm grateful for this movie.
This is the best kind of cinema. There are no heroes or villains, just messy, complicated people who love each other but know they shouldn't be together.
@@sajidteg4682 Same if my mom or dad cut themselves like that I'd help them and since I have been a Lifeguard and have First Aid training I'd be using it
I felt like this film was a tale of two people who compromised with each other to the point of emotional and mental exhaustion. However, not one time did I feel they truly hated one another even during the big fight scene that was just pure frustration and a need to release.
EXACTLY, that was my takeaway from this movie. Nicole states that she was tired of "feeding Charlie's aliveness", considering that she sacrificed her blossoming film career to stay with Charlie and act in his plays. And while Charlie claims that he wishes that Nicole were dead in their huge, pivotal fight towards the end, he immediately breaks down in tears of remorse, apologizing profusely. 😩
“I can’t believe I have to know you forever!!!” Hahaha. I feel like enough people don’t realize this fact. If you marry someone, you can get divorced and never have to say their name for the rest of your life. If you have a kid with someone, married or not, they will be in your life forever, for better or worse. Till death do you part.
My 72 years old cousin married, divorced, remarried the same good for nothing guy 3 times. She told me, we still talk. My friend said huh, they are gonna get married again. But she married someone else, her first boyfriend from high school! Anybody cares to write a weird movie?
One thing i noticed: nicole said at the start that charlie rarely gets defeated and then we experience most of his defeated and vulnerable moments during the film
I keep wondering what would have happened if Nicole had read the things she wrote about Charlie in the counselling session. Sometimes miscommunication or no communication with each other can cause a huge distance in any relationship. In the beginning of the film, Nicole swallows Charlie’s last criticism and cries alone, which I think it shows her hiding her deep thoughts. You have to keep trying to talk to each other to resolve the problem, otherwise being together with someone would lose its value in the first place. And you can’t just indulge one side like Nicole did because it would eventually fall apart. Talking through is a must to keep the balance.
This process without lawyers is really about respecting and forgiving the mistakes of one another and she clearly wasnt ready for it. Its like if Nicole felt personally attacked and was defending her feelings and proud, while Charlie had less heavy thoughts cuz basically he was the one kinda toxic for her, idk... the miscommunication was stated even before the cheating for sure
Sophia Bourbon That is precisely why she needed to let it all out. She was hiding and suppressing her thoughts too much while Charlie was getting indulged. Some men are like children. if you don’t tell them, they simply don’t understand what you’re going through in your mind. Any marriages need efforts to keep the balance, and talking through, even if it’s too raw, was what they needed in my opinion.
@Claudine Art “some men are like children...” yet you go on to describe Nicole as incapable of communicating clearly, as all adults, especially parents, are supposed to do. Nicole’s character needs to take responsibility for stifling her own voice, and for never learning how to communicate like an adult.
@teverettb Yes I think they both need to learn how to communicate for different reasons. Charlie does express what ‘he wants’ to Nicole and she gives it to him while as Nicole doesn’t ask him what she wants in return. I said some men are like children because exactly that is sort of a relationship between mothers and children, only these two aren’t, which is unhealthy. Nicole may not communicate with Charlie, because she is hoping he would know and understand her needs too, that’s what women often do in a long-term relationship. But instead, Charlie gets frustrated with his wife and goes out to find someone else who would give him what HE wants; indulgence. Women tend to hope that their men would know what they need or want without talking through because, well, they’ve been together surely long enough to know that. But the truth is, some men don’t know (or don’t want to know) and need to be reminded. If that fails, it becomes an off balanced relationship. Hence I think they both need to learn how to communicate.
Rose Hepworth I think it would be better to say some *people* are like children because, as someone who has watched his parents divorce, and seen an uncle of mine divorce, I see some of the same qualities in my ex-step grandmother that I do in Charlie. My dad went through the first fifty years of his life with undiagnosed autism, so he has never had the proper treatment for the fact that he simply can’t understand when people don’t react to his actions the way he thinks they should. As for my uncle’s ex-wife, she was just crazy. And I’m close with my uncle and I guess his wife thought that she wasn’t getting enough attention from him. It got so bad that she thought she was having to compete with their daughter. She even thought he was sleeping with their daughter, which I know is not true. Since their divorce, my cousin hasn’t had much contact with her mother. But one thing that can be said about this movie is that it’s a bit of a trap for viewers. It’s one of those movies that invites and often provokes discussion. But I can tell you from my personal experience, sometimes my family do have to school my father like an overgrown child. But where Charlie was a poor husband, but a good and responsible father, my father was both a poor husband and father. And my mother was the neat freak while my father was the slob. I don’t know I guess I’ve just seen too many of the same qualities in men and women to be able to completely agree with your statement. But other than that everything you’ve said is completely on point.
Trina Q precisely! It hits quite close to home for me, making it feel all the more intrusive.. as my husband and I divorced amicably, because we knew we weren’t good for each other and everyone around us is always putting in their two cents 😅 sometimes love isn’t enough and that’s what the film is all about.
@@mj5697 I'm really sorry to hear about that.😩 I've never been either married or divorced myself, but one of my friends recently finalized her own divorce from her husband, and I witnessed the pain on both sides. Although they had no children, the divorce was amicable, if bittersweet, since they both concluded that it would be better to call it a day, as opposed to letting things carry on into toxicity.
Trina Q ah. I feel their anguish.. my ex and I live two streets away from one another and share custody of our six year old. She thinks we’re best friends hah
Scarlett Johansson’s character had to see a lawyer otherwise Adam Driver’s character would never have compromised and despite loving his son, his selfishness which came out in the marriage and resulted in their eventual divorce would’ve prevented him from compromising in allowing his son to live in LA. I appreciated the Halloween symbolism. Adam Driver dresses up as the invisible man whilst Scarlett Johansson dresses as Bowie during his Let’s dance era, arguably the era where he turned away the most from his more “serious” work to work on more commercially successful music mirroring her move from avant grade theatre to a well paid TV pilot.
Was it worth the financial and emotional hardship? Could she have found a lawyer that wasn't the most vicious effective divorce lawyer in LA? If both of them had had lawyers like Bert it could've been so much better.
I agree with your viewpoint, although I wouldn't call Charlie "selfish" per se. He simply assumed that Nicole was content with what he liked, if he wanted to live in New York, so did she. It isn't until they begin the divorce proceedings that it's pointed out to him by the divorce lawyers and by Nicole herself that she doesn't necessarily see New York as her home, or where she wants to raise Henry. Excellent call of the costume symbolism! While I caught onto Charlie's two costumes as signs that he was slowly being erased from Henry's life, Nicole's was more subtle to me. It foreshadows her moving on from a passive role as Charlie's lead actress, and to try her hand at directing her own project, out from under his shadow, similar to Bowie's evolving style.🌟
Tim Evans they came to a settlement, but only after thousands of dollars had been wasted for no good reason. That's not what was best for their son. That being said, I understand why it went down that way.
But we could also argue they both failed to communicate, until the point of breakdown. Isn't it also revealed that she wanted to escape her old life with him at first? Also, she chooses to take her son, in order to put her career and needs above the marriage - which is exactly what he was doing. Effectively she's demanding that he give up his career and life [as he wants it to be] in order to see his son regularly, for her own needs - which is the very thing she's angry at him for. I think we see most of Nicole's hardship as being in the marriage, and most of Charlie's through the divorce. Also, it's Nicole who rejects the idea of counselling at the start. But they are both presented as equally good parents, equally capable, and equally talented. They don't take any cheap shots in this movie.
It's very human to resort to blame but in divorce between "normal" people, it is a simple fact that both spouses have outgrown each other. People do enter into situations where instead of being able to thrive as individuals, they end up crowding out each others formerly unrecognised need to grow and develop. The main message is that such growth is often unconscious and reflects the self-knowledge and maturity of both people. That's why until both spouses wake up to their own needs and meet them, they cannot fully be together. Some marriages will survive that process, but many don't. The emotional, economic, social and cultural costs of divorce are huge, and it takes time for goodwill and sanity to emerge from the breakup.
Most people by the end of the film feel more sorry for Charlie because the divorce is harsher on him than Nicole. But what we don't see is that the entire marriage was harder on Nicole. At one point she points out that she always loved Charlie more than he loved her. He didn't make sacrifices and compromises the way she did. True love makes people compromise and sacrifice things. Edit: Free PaIestine 🇵🇸 from the river to the sea 🌊
Is "it was harder on me than you so I'm the real victim" a good way to look at this story? It's like saying ppl who had it easier dont deserve to be acknowledged. There's always someone who has it harder. So that mentality is bullshit.
@@mikahong lol did i ever call Nicole "the real victim"? Or say that Charlie is horrible and to be blamed for everything? I'm not demonizing anyone. I'm just expressing my sympathy for Nicole whose real predicament we actually don't get to see in this movie, only Charlie's predicament.
@@FunnyLittleFrog idk if the film itself failed to show Nicole's story or you just missed it, either way my point is valid. But with what you said, I wonder if people would be asking for let alone gaf abt Charlie's predicament if this film was just another men are trash and this fantastic main girl character got cheated on kind of story.
@@mikahong Your point is that the someone-always-has-it-harder mentality is bs. I disagree. While none of this was easy for either of them, Nicole had it harder than Charlie in the marriage while Charlie had it harder in the divorce. In the movie when they are arguing, Charlie exclaims, "I feel like I'm losing!" to which Nicole retorts "I already lost!" Anyway, i'm not sure how to respond to your second paragraph except that despite everything, I did like 'Marriage Story'. Both were sympathetic, well-written characters. Nicole was not just a "fantastic main girl" and Charlie was not reduced to the "men are trash" trope. I will acknowledge that Nicole did have faults. She was not good at communicating her feelings to him, was disorganized, and not always sure what she wanted or didn't want. So I did like that about this film. In fact, I love Noah Baumbach movies and am waiting for his next one.
@@FunnyLittleFrog I'm not saying this film was like that, I'm saying that "he/she had it harder than him/her so they are the real victim is bs. It is. Ye, tbh I wasnt expecting and real response to it.
the part of this movie that i felt was the most frustrating was that charlie loved henry so much, but as nicole had mentioned, “hes in a mommy phase”. charlie tried so hard to get custody of henry, but the truth was that henry didn’t even want to be with his dad for the majority of the time. so he was fighting so hard for something that, in the long run, wouldn’t even benefit him. but again, charlie loved henry, he was his son. but i felt as though the feeling wasn’t mutual.
I was actually proud of Charlie for fighting for his child. Henry will get over his "mommy phase" and seek out his dad more eventually . Parents should fight for their kid regardless. Like you said, they love each other. Unconditional love.
Alll boys need their fathers at a certain point. When I was his age, I preferred my mother/grandmother but when I got older my dads wisdom and advice helped even more
This is one of the few movies that will probably be with me until I die. My parents divorced when I was very young, around Max’s age, and I was so confused and hurt, and I blamed myself. Later I started hating my parents because I felt they took away something I deserved, a family. Something that I saw other kids have and deeply yearned. As I grew up I realized that life and especially love is so much more complicated to put blame most of the times. A lot of times I can learn things from movies, but I rarely find a movie that actually helps me grow as a person. Movies like this are legitimately rare and beautiful. Movies like these are the reason I love film and why I want to become a screenwriter
this movie gave me a lot of raw emotions and by the end I was confused about how I felt once the credits rolled. I was still waiting on a catharsis, but that could be the meaning of Marriage Story. Even though there were little bits here and there that showed the love that they still had for each other by the end, I wanted more, but again, it's not a love story, it's a family story. I feel that Charlie could win her back if he continues to grow. He moved to LA, after the divorce. That is more of a silver lining to me than the shoe tying.
Nah they're better off not being together, she left him and her career/life took off, he was holding her back, shouldn't do that to your spouse, you should bring out their best, not their worst
@@PeterEhik the relationship didn't work because Charlie didn't see Nicole as an individual, like she said an extension of himself. Believe or not this divorce did bring out the best in them. Nicole found her voice and Charlie learned the value of being loved. Charlie could've easily went back to the side chick, but no, he took an extended job in the city he hates and allows Nicole to make decisions (wearing whatever costume and not voicing any unwarranted opinions).
@@dmarmartin He doesn't wanna be married though, he said that during their fight, never even wanted to get married in the first place, happens to a lot of us, kinda feel pressured into commitment, not all his fault, I'm sure she pressured him but he didn't want a real partner, he didn't see her for who she really was as a person, just who she is to him, like how a kid sees a parent and child/parent relationships aren't supposed to last forever, eventually you see your dad and mom as just people, flawed with hopes and dreams of their own independent of you.
@@PeterEhik he didn't* I'm looking at the people after the fight, after the divorce. I see the two people at the end as different from the people at the beginning and the ones at the courthouse
Dmar Martin They’re different people because they’re not together anymore. Breaking up let them grow and if they came back together, they’d probably regress back to the way they were.
It shows that sometimes love isn't enough. The ending is bittersweet even though it is almost the 'happy' outcome of a divorce, separate but civil. They do love each other but that doesn't mean they are good for each other.
my name's myriah Nah. The fact that it was Noah Baumbach and Netflix would’ve gotten some buzz and the fact that it’s good would’ve carried it from there
The most bitter part is at the end when after the divorce, he came back to the house with the new guy playing w/ his son. Charlie doesn't have a room there anymore. No pictures of him. G-ma has gotten awkward w/ him. And the scene where Nicole, Henry and the new guy are in a matching bright outfit, whereas Charlie is in a ghost costume. It's literally him being a ghost in their new family now. That is so sad.
On the other Hand he made himself the ghost. Sure he "hated" La, but does that really hinder you when you want a relationship with your child? I have seen a few divorces and the key metric in my opinion was how close the father stayed to the childs original lifes. There are fathers, like my uncle who decide it would be best to bring a border between himself and his ex and child (hint: both Times this was a shitty idea) and there are dads that move a few Blocks, so the child does not have to drive hours every few days to see their dad.
@@loewenmakrele At the end of the film, Charlie has given up his aspirations of being a director to work at a local university. He has moved into a home in LA, where he has no friends and no support structure. He also wipes out his savings fighting for custody. Honestly what else could he have done for his child? He lost everything else in his life just to stay close to him.
@@tristanneal9552 Which its kind of interesting. Seems like Nicole spend much of her life with him (by her choose ofc) doing things she didnt want to, and in the end, hes starting to do the same (by his choose too). Basically what im saying its the last like "... lost everything else in their life just to stay close to him" its for both. Dont u think?
A girl and I that dated for 2 years almost got married, and when things started to end, in a lot of ways ended similarly to Nicole and Charlie’s relationship. This movie was an emotional experience for me. 10/10. My favorite movie of the year.
I loved this movie. I literally cried at the part where she chooses his food from the menu. I knew there could be no other end to the movie but this part gutted me. Loved the movie.
Being a child of divorce & messy family dynamics is one of the reasons I love Baumbach's work. Most of his work hits, on some level, close to home for me.
I love how the movie really explored both sides. She did sacrifice for love but in that big argument he reveals that he made sacrifices too. He wasn’t some evil unfeeling monster and she wasn’t a vindictive bitch. They were both people who loved each other but didn’t compromise or communicate when they should have. Yet there was still love there in the end.
They were each right in many aspects and wrong in others. That's marriage. The look Nicole gave to Charlie in the end felt like she still loved him. And the way Charlie reacted to her letter hit me harder than expected. Great movie 👍🏼
Charlie insisting on being Nicole's director is a serious red flag. He literally controls the way she talks, walks, and looks, which bleeds into their home life. If this dynamic is constant, throughout their career instead of just for a project or two... I don't blame her for wanting out. It's not healthy, especially since he refuses to allow her to pursue her dream of directing.
If Joquain Phoenix wasn't nominated for "Joker", then Adam DEFINITELY deserves to nab the Best Actor Oscar!🏆 His acting absolutely blew me away here, and shows that he can be more than Kylo Ren.💖😺
In the Screen Actors Guild Awards, during Joaquin's Best Actor acceptance speech for Joker, he says that Adam "should be up here" while complimenting the other nominees. While Joaquin deserves it for Joker, any other year Adam would have gotten it probably
My parents got a divorce this summer after 21 years, it’s been hard, it still is. But this is something universal and it helps me see things from another perspective and appreciate me and my girlfriend’s relationship even more
Controversial opinion alert: Joaquin Phoenix was great but Adam Driver deserves the Oscar this year. The older I get the more I appreciate performances like his in Marriage Story. People think it’s easy to play a reserved quiet real character, but it’s not. It’s harder. Phoenix certainly has that reserved repressed energy to his character but it culminates in a big loud bombastic way (and that’s fine, I don’t expect a Joker performance to be subdued lol) but it was Adam Driver’s struggling, casual, compassionate Charlie and Robert Pattinson’s near wordless maddening Thomas in The Lighthouse that are the best performances this year for me. And since Pattinson wasn’t nominated (nice one academy) it should go to Driver without competition. But I know it won’t. It’ll go to Phoenix.
I personally thought Adam was better at the emotional acting. But consistency, having all of those emotions bottled up, becoming their character - that's Joaquin. And Scarlett, honestly. But no one's talking about her, and it's annoying me.
YZ I can see that opinion for sure. I just think the academy tends to reward the big loud ‘look at me look at me’ performances over the more subdued and measured ones. Year after year I see deeply personal quiet but powerful performances fall to the wayside in favor to whoever yelled the loudest and it never fails to frustrate me. And I agree, I think the lack of buzz around Scarlet is disappointing but I think she has a better chance to win in her perspective category more than Adam does his.
@@aberrantcow She better, someone needs to win for marriage story and I want Joaquin to win for best actor, so... Also, part of me is still shook this is scarlett's first year getting nominated... like wtf academy how
YZ oh wow! You’re right! It is her first year being nominated. And for best supporting actress too. Laura Dern will most likely bring that one home. I was hoping some of the actors from Parasite would have gotten some acting nods but since they didn’t I think Scarlet has this one in the bag.
@@aberrantcow hopefully she does, and I think Laura will win too. I hope they win, especially Scarlett, because then people won't look at me weirdly when I say she's a talented actress
It's a typical "marriage story": The man is oblivious to the women's needs, she compromises and sacrifices until she can't do it anymore and initiates the divorce eventually, he is surprised that what he had taken for granted is suddenly not his anymore. It's sad that some men only realize what they had when they lose it. Nicole's character says it: "He treated me like a part of his own", as a possession, that can't be taken away from him and has no free will. He would have never treated her with respect as long as she was his, that's the tragedy. Women have to fight for respect because we won't be given it voluntarily and that fight hurts everyone involved in the end.
Ironically both OP and you are like the movie characters. Both unable to understand each other’s point of view and dealing in only absolute truths in a world that is ever so messy and complex. It’s sad that both of you misunderstood so profoundly. Like the characters maybe u should put some childishness aside. بدر و بس
J B it’s beyond that. if you rewatch the movie and take out her experience it’s not that he’s sad that he lose her. he’s sad that he wouldn’t see his son. this movie isn’t about their feelings for each other rather there concerns for their child’s future. charlie doesn’t fight for her but for his son. even with the argument you hear him say what does this have to do with california when she tries to spin it about their feelings for each other. bert even says the divorce was bond to happen just needed something important enough to fight about as well as the actors and actresses even said she was using this just to go to LA. this is about two people trying to fight for different things, the father his ability to be a parent to his son in the future and the mother the freedom and ability to prove she’s able and willing.
Neat, that's a fantastic sign, I've just watched most of the 2019/2020 Best Picture Nominees, and I'm ready for The Take's Analysis Videos for Oscar Season!😊
I feel like this film is subconsciously Noah Baumbach’s own marriage story, like one day he just wrote it from the back of his mind and didn’t even know it.
this video makes me want to cry as someone who's going through a difficult time in my relationship, but the beginning line about being in love but not being right together really spoke to me, and is really scary.
The son was aggravating as sin. The one thing that really hurts is the ending when Charlie goes over to Nicole's house and he sees her boyfriend playing with their son, the mother in law was getting a but uncomfortable with Charlie, Charlie goes with them trick r treating as a ghost being distant away while Henry bonds with Nicole and Carter. That really broke my heart because that part reminds me of my parents and a depiction of how i took it. It just makes me feel guilty of how I was with my dad and my mom and her bfs
As someone going through a bad breaking up rn, this shit hits hard. Being in love with someone but knowing they're not the right one sucks. We both had our faults and messed up in the relationship but there was always that hope and understanding that we would make it through, however due to certain circumstances, that quickly dissolved into arguing and borderline hatred for one another. Trying to be mature and be friends was a mistake in this instance as we weren't capable to deal with being there for each other in a platonic way. 8 months of back and forth "I love you" "I Hate you" takes a toll on a person. Even if it wasn't the longest relationship it still left an impact on me as I now sort of understand what I'm looking for and how to deal with certain situations. I would hope these past months, for as hard as they were, brought at least some needed change for the both of us. We're not on good terms and we are out of each others life, and I wish the best for them, but I know if there was more contact between us it will just progressively become even more toxic than it was. I will always love them and they'll be in my heart, but also I hate them and I'm glad its over, a lot of mixed emotions. I'm not sure why I'm writing this, maybe just a way to get the emotions out, I don't know. But just because you love each other doesn't mean you're meant to be.
Watching the movie it was a bit triggering for me given how ugly my parents divorce went out. I was in my late teens and my older siblings were in their early to mid twenties. We thought it was because one was to mentally unbalanced which somewhat eased the pain but one then starting doing some digging which could be evidence of a secret affair with a coworker. They deny it when I asked them about it but I’m not sure what to believe.
Emma W Harris don’t worry it’s been 4 years since then. After the whole incident many other unfortunately tragic events happened, like legit I could write a audio-biography about it. However ,since everything it’s become somewhat of a wake up call. I’m in my second year of college and I’m trying make friends along the way as I’m tired of being miserable for so long.
Actually there were some liberties. They separated around the time that his wife recently had their baby. But in the movie, their child is a bit older. Also, Noah claims never to have had an affair with his secretary unlike Charlie in the movie. Anyways, have a good day :)
As a child from divorce it’s always important to try and remember what kindled your marriage and carry that when you’re going through court. My parents went in mutual and on good terms but came out hating each other. It’s amazing how he directed and shot this to make parents both seem victims of Love and the divorce system. Its crazy.
The Take deserves every one of its subscribers! Great job as always. I hope you make an analysis of Waves by Trey Edward Shults when it gets a little more popularity
There are two kind of people that have seen Marriage Story: those that felt they were getting a divorce and those who felt their parents were getting divorced. Legit, there's no in between.
this was truly a great film. it’s so realistic and universal in such a beautiful way. i love how this movie shows that a love story isn’t always going to end with romance. this movie showed an experience that two people shared together for a really long time and that they’ll always have those memories together. in a way i feel the divorce brought them closer, not as lovers, but as humans.
I'm glad someone tried to show what is wrong with the divorce system rather than it being exclusively about one party having done some terrible act. We should really make it illegal for divorce lawyers to get any % and instead have a fixed rate no matter how much or how little money one party has. It's bad for them to have an incentive to steal money from the opposing party.
@@rickardkaufman3988 Pretty much yes, saw a video a couple of years ago about a guy who used to be a lawyer exclusively targetting women with rich husbands. He had tactics on how to trick the women into getting them to threat the fathers with false stories using custody as a bargaining chip so that men end up paying for the rest of their lives even after the kids are grown. And if there was no kid he still managed to get his clients up to 600.000 per year so he would earn 250.000 dollars without having to do any work. It all might have started out as a way to protect women but now it's something disgusting.
IT IS illegal for a family lawyer to receive a contingency payment in a divorce case. It is against the American Bar Association (ABA) for a family (or criminal) lawyer to get a percentage of the settlement. Family and criminal lawyers only get a flat fee (i.e. $500 per hour). That’s why the cocky lawyer that Adam Driver ends up with says “my rate is $850 an hour” NOT “I get 20% of your settlement”
Actually what is wrong is that lawyers can be priced as high as possible without any maximum limit. Making either opposing or defending side very vulnerable if they lose. So most people would try hire someone as expensive as possible and see both sides empty their pockets for the lawyers who just had to put up an act in front of judges for money. End of the day lawyers are cool with each other and the clients are not.
@@kirag9509 My sweet summer child, just wait until you get a divorce depending on who doesn't have any money to pay the lawyer, the lawyer will create a back end payment plan.
"I didn't even know what my taste was anymore" really hit me. I've been in a relationship where I felt I lost myself and didn't know who I was. I feel like that specific feeling/problem isn't talked about enough. Anyway I left that relationship, and I'm still finding myself and I always will be, but now I've been with my boyfriend for 3 years who values my opinions and character and understands. It's beautiful. I hope everyone finds someone that makes them feel so valued and understood and loved for who they are, because everyone deserves to feel that way 💜
I think this movie utilized the similar elements in Company the musical so well. That musical is probably my all-time fav just because it explains and explores relationships and intimacy and wanting to love and be loved so so well. They both portrayed the loneliness and the struggles of finding real connections, even if you're with someone.
As a child of divorce, this movie brought up some of the worst memories for me and to this day I keep going back to the movie and comparing it to my own life. Sometimes I wonder if I would have spared myself the pain of watching it if it wasn’t for the fact that it had Scarlett Johansson and Adam Driver.
A lady I'm dating and I watched this waking up this morning after a long night. She cried at the end when she tied his shoe and explained to me that it has to be that way for the sake of the kid. Which makes total sense. I've never been married or have a kid, but I did have a girlfriend that was pregnant twice and dealing with that relationship you can feel it and I definitely shed a tear at the end. Scarlett and Adam and amazing actors.
This movie was so well done. Makes me feel even more empathy for my father. Also, thanks for the “First Wive’s Club” references! God I love that movie!!
Communication really lacking between this couple, we only get raw emotions and the impact of their resentful. They only honest when no other around. Also this movie should teach us that married is a big thing, the next step of your life. Where you live,what you gonna sacrifice, are you gonna have a child etc
The scene after the Nancy lady leaves where Charlie desperately tries to stop his arm from bleeding with as much nonchalance as possible all the while he’s progressively fainting from losing too much blood will forever kill me with that single captured detail of Henry spilling a splatter of milk on the floor his father’s lying on as he walks around him and back to his room to continue playing. I think it might be one of the most metaphorically accurate and beautiful depictions of what it means to be a parent and what it feels like to be in a divorced relationship upkept and bound by the child solely. This movie is so real it hurts.
I didn't know anything about the director but it make sense that it from the pov of the husband for most of the film. I kept hearing it was from both sides but it really wasn't at all. They didn't get 50/50 screen time and it made it seem like she was unreasonable. He cheated on her, ignored her career goals. When they had the big fight he accused her of being a martyr; not really wanting what she said but to be able to say he won't let her. This is after she already move to L.A. She already set her goals into motion but he still think it's all talk and not a big deal? Its was odd and great how that flipping me from feeling bad for him to finally seeing her side. He didn't listen to her or care about what she wanted all. But the fact that (SPOILER ALERT) he moves to LA anyway was very bitter sweet.
It only implies who was Charlie along the marriage, a lot of people didn't pay attention to this signals and feel sorry for him 😅 and i am agreed with the idea that the movie doesn't give the time to Nicole to explain her whole story.
Yeah, plus he cheated with someone from THEIR WORK, it is very obviously why she wanted to quit. I suspect her initial suggestion was that they both step away from the company and start afresh closer to her home and family, especially now she has a child. She isn't so well suited to the theatre, and she wanted a fresh start. Neither of those requests are in themselves unreasonable, and because he had cheated the onus would really be on him to step away; at one stage he had promised to move there eventually anyway. But by doing that she makes him choose between his career - the company is really his baby - and her, and he didn't choose her. Is that maybe why she refuses to negotiate any further with the mediator etc? He underestimates her I think, focusing too narrowly on his work and sidelining her as someone who only works on his projects, who has no creative voice of her own, when in reality you see she makes good points when she's on set. The story is from his POV so they are belittled a bit, but she does have talents that he won't let her use, basically because he's too competitive and maybe subconsciously sees it as a threat.
kahkah1986 I’ve honestly always believed you should never work with your husband. It’s honestly too much saturation in one other person. We need time apart to reaclimate and not get on each other’s nerves. And the competition aspect is less an issue when you’re not showing up one another at the same skill set. So separate fields of work are also better. Pity people spend so much time working that that’s where they meet people. The shared interests that draw you together at the start can push you apart later.
@@just1desi yup, you could maybe argue that as it was his company she was wrong to just ask him if she could direct it because it put him in a weird conflict of interest situation. He sees her as an actress, and he has a very specific view of what an actress should be. You need that tunnel vision as a director, but in life it's a bad idea to not take others on board. It is normal for people to get passed over for promotion at work, for example, if someone decides they wouldn't fit, but marriage does complicate things because there are obviously more emotional issues.
I loved this movie more than I thought I would. My parents divorced when I was 4 and I don't remember anything about it but the I'm still experiencing it's effects 12 years later. Such a beautiful film.
idk dude during the big break-down scene I couldn't with the line "Every day I wake up wishing you were dead!" and his admitting he didn't want to get married and didn't really love her... I just can't deal with it. How awfully cruel. Maybe I have very high standards, but I can't imagine viewing my lover in a way nearly so harsh and heartless. My sympathy evaporated at that line and I decided Adam Driver's character has a massive victim complex.
They don't belong together. There's no need to diagnose Charlie with a massive victim complex to see that. Charlie, when he gets his way, like what happened in the marriage when they don't move to LA, can't be the victim. He doesn't have a victim complex during the marriage. We see when he doesn't get his way, when he can't get custody in NY, he loses. It's not wrong to see Charlie having a massive victim complex. Nicole knows this about Charlie. She says so to Nora, her divorce lawyer. She gets smaller and he gets bigger. She's not seen. After all this, Nicole wants to divorce fairly. Fairness takes sympathy. Seeing Charlie as unsympathetic yet going for fairness just makes Nicole's sympathetic approach just make sense.
Same. I went through an ugly divorce with a genuine abusive narcissist and I still never said those kind of things out loud. And when I would say then out loud in prayer, I realized I didn’t really mean them.
That line has something else behind it. Daniel Sloss made a very good comedy special around this idea "sometimes you love someone dearly but they make your life complicated, especially if you want to do things they dont want to do, and often if you break up its as if one of you suddenly became the villain, so, wouldnt it just be technically easier if one of you died? No ones 'the villain' that way". There are many things that can be said about that, but I dont think hes necessarily wrong, because breaking up with someone IS far more complex to end a relationship than a tragical sudden death. Only and purely only talking technically a death makes it simple. If a partners dead and you were planning to break up then hey you no longer get to break their heart, they are dead. Thats kinda the dark point and the reason why Adam says hes sorry. To carry those dark thoughts is one thing but to outloud say them completely shows to the other person your deepest darkest mental state, so he falls to the groundand cries saying sorry. Pretty please take this all with a huge grain of salt, there are layers to this whole mess
Well he doesn't view his lover that way, it's how he views the woman trying to take his child from him. She had long since stopped occupying the role of "lover", and the new context she operates under changes how he sees her. She had just told him she finds him physically repulsive and a bad father, and compared him to his alcoholic and abusive father. I doubt she meant all of that, it was said in the heat of the moment, and I doubt she felt that as strongly when they were still lovers. I think the same goes for Driver's character as well. I don't think he meant all of that, as evidenced by his breakdown and her comforting him, and even if he does believe some of it he likely didn't believe it as strongly back when they were married.
A little thing I had noticed after I watched a second time was that the scenes that have nicole Charlie and Henry were shot in a way where all of them were in the shot witch to me gives the impression of a family and how a child can bring people together and tear them apart because of the love they have for eachother and that child absolutely beautiful movie
If Nicole had read the letter she wrote about Charlie at the beginning of the movie, would they end up changing their minds about getting the divorce???
There are many questions like that throughout the movie, but you have to remember "if that character did this or that would things have changed" you have to apply it to all the other questions. If they had gone to LA would he and her have changed their minds, if he hadnt slept with another woman would they change their minds, if he had let her direct a movie or if she had only married him after he had lived his 20s more would they have changed their minds. You cant focus on only one, but the accrued many
I just like how they though they fight, they're still be able to have decent and peaceful conversation, even if they are in the process of divorce, I felt that they're genuine and kind to each other.
I hope if you decide to have a child, it's when this thought process changes. That kid was Literally one of the most non complaining child I've seen in movies or in divorce situations. He didn't even know any cuss words. The P in parenting stands for Patience.
Agreed. I get that in many peoples eyes, he was pretty realistically portrayed, but I still wanted to slap him. Absolutely no idea why either parent wanted to be stuck with him 😂
Kids sense subtle cues. I'm certain his behaviors are a reflection of how his parents act around him. Kids with divorced parents have trouble adapting to the ever changing environment. It's not the kids' fault for the divorces.
This was such a hard movie to watch for me. It was a year ago that my divorce was finalized...i took the film at face value and cried through the entire thing.
To be honest, this movie felt like prime oscar bait. Two household name actors in a personal, small-cast drama that felt like a play, in which two theater- and movie-artists go through a divorce. I mean, come on. That being said, I enjoyed the movie, if only for the performances of ScarJo and Adam Driver. Super frustrating movie overall, as I always felt like they could make it work if they only communicated their hopes and dreams a little better, but well-made.
As a person who's parents recently split I can tell you that is *exactly* what happens in real life. At first they tried to communicate reasonably but the lawyers had them at each other's throats in a matter of months, and neither party can have a proper conversation anymore
I think the main point of this movie is that love and marriage is a choice you make everyday. And when you choose not to communicate and be open (which is a form of intimacy) with the other person, then it drives you apart. Because you haven't chosen to do the work required for the relationship, you've chosen to do what you want which is to make you feel like a big man again (Charlie) or become the martyred woman (Nicole).
I’m a kid of divorce and this is all very real for my parents, and I feel like I’m going through it now with my own relationship, maybe seeing happen to them gave me an idea of what relationships are supposed to be. I don’t really believe in marriage anymore and this is true for a lot of my friends who also have divorced parents
The law in our country requires that you and your spouse are unable to communicate to even be considered. The parties can't just agree to disagree and be separated, they have to be 'unable' to be together. So one of the spouse should take the fall, and be the bad guy/girl for the separation to be approved by law. It's insane.
Watched it a couple of days ago, I wasn't aware of Scarlet Johansson and Adam Driver both talent for drama. They absolutely nailed it, most of all that arguing scene ❤️
Spoilrers ahead Am I the only one who felt sorry for Adam Driver's character in the end? I mean, yes he did make mistakes and yes he cheated etc., but in the end she had it her way all the way and she did things that were wrong too. Awesome movie anyways!
I did too, but the film takes care to balance BOTH sides of the conflict. Charlie and Nicole are both shown to have valid arguments, and neither of them are presented as completely in the right.
@@trinaq yeah but we "see" charlie's suffering in the movie, meanwhile scarlet's suffering its tell to us, something like "yeah I suffer every single year since we been married". And then "we", the audience, feel bad for the guy because we've seen him suffer while we dont see scarlett suffer, and we dont really need to see her crying or struggling every single time to get us on her side, she already suffer enough off-screen.
@Carter Atwell No, it shows how men sometimes neglect their families and let their wives take care of the kids, only ever compromise their egoistic wishes when they are forced to and want to have custody after divorce then just because they want it. It's obvious Henry wants to stay in LA but Charlie wants him to move back to New York "to win", although his connection with him is clearly not as strong as Nicole's. Charlie's not the victim, he's the one who wrecked the marriage and only ever wakes up during the divorce after everything is already ruined. He thinks he's entitled to Henry just because he is used to getting what he wants but objectively, Nicole is just the better parent. The divorce system is the only level playing field, men just perceive it as skewed because they are used to being judged more favourably everywhere else. It's the male-dominated world around it that's skewed, not the divorce system.
No matter how difficult and complicated this relationship was, it made me commiserate and also, yearn to be on either side, because at least both were at some point willing and able to hear the others pain and put the kids first. Going through a divorce with a malignant mentally ill (NPD or BPD, I’m not sure which) person who weaponizes our children, makes this look like a walk in the park. Painful, relatable, heart wrenching yes, but to anyone who has had to navigate protecting kids in relationship with an abuser… .
You know you’re right some of the best love stories don’t have the couple end up together like Her and Lost in Translation. Which coincidentally enough both have Scarlett Johansson.
The end reminds me of my parents they became friends in Middle school and got married later in their 30's they couldn't stay married but they still stay friends they both go to dinners with their spouses together and have conversations over the phone and support each other I don't know any friends of mine who's divorced parents are friends like mine are the end where they still stay friends hits home a little bit
I feel like this movie vilifies Jay but treated Nora differently even though they were both essentially doing the same thing for their perspective clients.
I think each lawyer cleverly acted in a very calculated manner to get the job and to try to win - Nicole wouldn’t have hired Nora if she were aggressive like Jay… Nora was subtle but manipulative - she knew exactly what to say and when to say it. Jay was the choice for someone desperate who felt they were losing… just having fired the ethical guy.
“...after Charlie falters after getting his grant” If i recall, Nicole purposefully f**** that up for him, so the Emmy nomination line is especially frustrating. Charlie did not self sabotage there and i think the film does slightly portray Nicole as more of a villain. Charlie’s “SeLFiShnESs” is loosely defined
I agree. I see some evidence of Charlie being selfish, but I see quite a bit of Nicole not clearly speaking up about what she wants, too. Not just with Charlie, but with her lawyer, too. They were both very flawed though.
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My husband and I watched this a few weeks after we decided NOT to get divorced. This movie made us realize that whether we stayed married or not, we had to fix our relationship because getting a divorce was not the end of our relationship. A year and a half and lots of work later, we're better than ever. I'm grateful for this movie.
thats great!
Oh my god. This COMMENT has touched me. Me and my husband are going through a lot but we havent mentioned getting divorce at all really
@@laurennloraezzz I'm sorry to hear you guys are going through it! It's so tough but don't lose hope!
I love a happy ending!
I'm really happy for you guys, I hope you're doing ok and I wish you and your husband and all your family love and happiness 💜💜💜
This is the best kind of cinema. There are no heroes or villains, just messy, complicated people who love each other but know they shouldn't be together.
Or like La La Land
Like good will Hunting
@@Gadget-Walkmen Somewhat, yeah. They're both character-driven plots in that way
Like "LOst in Translation"
This whole "love each other but shouldn't be together" is so dumb
watched marriage story and feel like i, too, got a divorce
Marisa Iversen Ha very funny
I got the same feeling, it was absolutely gut-wrenching!😩💔
yo haha! comedian level
If you have gotten a divorce, then sure. But if you haven’t, then no, you really dont know. Especially no if you don’t have a child
If you have gotten a divorce, then sure. But if you haven’t, then no, you really dont know. Especially no if you don’t have a child
The most accurate part of this movie was the kid stepping around Adam Driver’s bleeding body to get a snack.
Accurate though I can relate to having your arm cut like that and I wouldn't walk by my parents if they cut themselves
I hated that kid. Sometimes.
How is that relateable
@@inkajoo Geez I knew he could be a bit annoying but wow
@@sajidteg4682 Same if my mom or dad cut themselves like that I'd help them and since I have been a Lifeguard and have First Aid training I'd be using it
I felt like this film was a tale of two people who compromised with each other to the point of emotional and mental exhaustion. However, not one time did I feel they truly hated one another even during the big fight scene that was just pure frustration and a need to release.
EXACTLY, that was my takeaway from this movie. Nicole states that she was tired of "feeding Charlie's aliveness", considering that she sacrificed her blossoming film career to stay with Charlie and act in his plays. And while Charlie claims that he wishes that Nicole were dead in their huge, pivotal fight towards the end, he immediately breaks down in tears of remorse, apologizing profusely. 😩
I totally agree. :)
@@trinaq what hurts the most when I watched that scene is that the only true people you love can use your vulnerability to hurt you
If they had spend half the energy and 1/4 of the money of the divorce in therapy (couples and individual) they wouldn't got divorced.
@@pamelagonzalez8947 you still see the divorce as a terrible thing, but that's the opposite of what the director was trying to portray in the film.
“I can’t believe I have to know you forever!!!”
Hahaha. I feel like enough people don’t realize this fact. If you marry someone, you can get divorced and never have to say their name for the rest of your life. If you have a kid with someone, married or not, they will be in your life forever, for better or worse. Till death do you part.
....yeah sucks...want to scream..😤
ikr that was the most realistic quote ive ever heard in my life! loved it!!
My parents havent talked in nearly 5 years. They live different states. They are happy.
One of the main reasons I don’t want children
My 72 years old cousin married, divorced, remarried the same good for nothing guy 3 times. She told me, we still talk. My friend said huh, they are gonna get married again. But she married someone else, her first boyfriend from high school! Anybody cares to write a weird movie?
One thing i noticed: nicole said at the start that charlie rarely gets defeated and then we experience most of his defeated and vulnerable moments during the film
I keep wondering what would have happened if Nicole had read the things she wrote about Charlie in the counselling session. Sometimes miscommunication or no communication with each other can cause a huge distance in any relationship. In the beginning of the film, Nicole swallows Charlie’s last criticism and cries alone, which I think it shows her hiding her deep thoughts. You have to keep trying to talk to each other to resolve the problem, otherwise being together with someone would lose its value in the first place. And you can’t just indulge one side like Nicole did because it would eventually fall apart. Talking through is a must to keep the balance.
This process without lawyers is really about respecting and forgiving the mistakes of one another and she clearly wasnt ready for it. Its like if Nicole felt personally attacked and was defending her feelings and proud, while Charlie had less heavy thoughts cuz basically he was the one kinda toxic for her, idk... the miscommunication was stated even before the cheating for sure
Sophia Bourbon That is precisely why she needed to let it all out. She was hiding and suppressing her thoughts too much while Charlie was getting indulged. Some men are like children. if you don’t tell them, they simply don’t understand what you’re going through in your mind. Any marriages need efforts to keep the balance, and talking through, even if it’s too raw, was what they needed in my opinion.
@Claudine Art “some men are like children...” yet you go on to describe Nicole as incapable of communicating clearly, as all adults, especially parents, are supposed to do. Nicole’s character needs to take responsibility for stifling her own voice, and for never learning how to communicate like an adult.
@teverettb Yes I think they both need to learn how to communicate for different reasons. Charlie does express what ‘he wants’ to Nicole and she gives it to him while as Nicole doesn’t ask him what she wants in return. I said some men are like children because exactly that is sort of a relationship between mothers and children, only these two aren’t, which is unhealthy. Nicole may not communicate with Charlie, because she is hoping he would know and understand her needs too, that’s what women often do in a long-term relationship. But instead, Charlie gets frustrated with his wife and goes out to find someone else who would give him what HE wants; indulgence. Women tend to hope that their men would know what they need or want without talking through because, well, they’ve been together surely long enough to know that. But the truth is, some men don’t know (or don’t want to know) and need to be reminded. If that fails, it becomes an off balanced relationship. Hence I think they both need to learn how to communicate.
Rose Hepworth I think it would be better to say some *people* are like children because, as someone who has watched his parents divorce, and seen an uncle of mine divorce, I see some of the same qualities in my ex-step grandmother that I do in Charlie. My dad went through the first fifty years of his life with undiagnosed autism, so he has never had the proper treatment for the fact that he simply can’t understand when people don’t react to his actions the way he thinks they should. As for my uncle’s ex-wife, she was just crazy. And I’m close with my uncle and I guess his wife thought that she wasn’t getting enough attention from him. It got so bad that she thought she was having to compete with their daughter. She even thought he was sleeping with their daughter, which I know is not true. Since their divorce, my cousin hasn’t had much contact with her mother. But one thing that can be said about this movie is that it’s a bit of a trap for viewers. It’s one of those movies that invites and often provokes discussion. But I can tell you from my personal experience, sometimes my family do have to school my father like an overgrown child. But where Charlie was a poor husband, but a good and responsible father, my father was both a poor husband and father. And my mother was the neat freak while my father was the slob. I don’t know I guess I’ve just seen too many of the same qualities in men and women to be able to completely agree with your statement. But other than that everything you’ve said is completely on point.
As I was watching this film, I kept wondering if I was mature enough for the content.. and I’m thirty-two lol
Me too, this movie has a lot of intimate scenes where you almost feel like you're intruding on what SHOULD be a private moment between two people.
Trina Q precisely! It hits quite close to home for me, making it feel all the more intrusive.. as my husband and I divorced amicably, because we knew we weren’t good for each other and everyone around us is always putting in their two cents 😅 sometimes love isn’t enough and that’s what the film is all about.
@@mj5697 I'm really sorry to hear about that.😩 I've never been either married or divorced myself, but one of my friends recently finalized her own divorce from her husband, and I witnessed the pain on both sides. Although they had no children, the divorce was amicable, if bittersweet, since they both concluded that it would be better to call it a day, as opposed to letting things carry on into toxicity.
Trina Q ah. I feel their anguish.. my ex and I live two streets away from one another and share custody of our six year old. She thinks we’re best friends hah
@@mj5697 Aww, that's sweet that you're on still on friendly terms, and that your little girl can spend time with both of her parents.💖👧
Scarlett Johansson’s character had to see a lawyer otherwise Adam Driver’s character would never have compromised and despite loving his son, his selfishness which came out in the marriage and resulted in their eventual divorce would’ve prevented him from compromising in allowing his son to live in LA.
I appreciated the Halloween symbolism. Adam Driver dresses up as the invisible man whilst Scarlett Johansson dresses as Bowie during his Let’s dance era, arguably the era where he turned away the most from his more “serious” work to work on more commercially successful music mirroring her move from avant grade theatre to a well paid TV pilot.
Was it worth the financial and emotional hardship? Could she have found a lawyer that wasn't the most vicious effective divorce lawyer in LA? If both of them had had lawyers like Bert it could've been so much better.
I agree with your viewpoint, although I wouldn't call Charlie "selfish" per se. He simply assumed that Nicole was content with what he liked, if he wanted to live in New York, so did she. It isn't until they begin the divorce proceedings that it's pointed out to him by the divorce lawyers and by Nicole herself that she doesn't necessarily see New York as her home, or where she wants to raise Henry.
Excellent call of the costume symbolism! While I caught onto Charlie's two costumes as signs that he was slowly being erased from Henry's life, Nicole's was more subtle to me. It foreshadows her moving on from a passive role as Charlie's lead actress, and to try her hand at directing her own project, out from under his shadow, similar to Bowie's evolving style.🌟
Tim Evans they came to a settlement, but only after thousands of dollars had been wasted for no good reason. That's not what was best for their son. That being said, I understand why it went down that way.
But we could also argue they both failed to communicate, until the point of breakdown. Isn't it also revealed that she wanted to escape her old life with him at first? Also, she chooses to take her son, in order to put her career and needs above the marriage - which is exactly what he was doing. Effectively she's demanding that he give up his career and life [as he wants it to be] in order to see his son regularly, for her own needs - which is the very thing she's angry at him for.
I think we see most of Nicole's hardship as being in the marriage, and most of Charlie's through the divorce. Also, it's Nicole who rejects the idea of counselling at the start.
But they are both presented as equally good parents, equally capable, and equally talented. They don't take any cheap shots in this movie.
It's very human to resort to blame but in divorce between "normal" people, it is a simple fact that both spouses have outgrown each other. People do enter into situations where instead of being able to thrive as individuals, they end up crowding out each others formerly unrecognised need to grow and develop. The main message is that such growth is often unconscious and reflects the self-knowledge and maturity of both people. That's why until both spouses wake up to their own needs and meet them, they cannot fully be together. Some marriages will survive that process, but many don't. The emotional, economic, social and cultural costs of divorce are huge, and it takes time for goodwill and sanity to emerge from the breakup.
Most people by the end of the film feel more sorry for Charlie because the divorce is harsher on him than Nicole. But what we don't see is that the entire marriage was harder on Nicole. At one point she points out that she always loved Charlie more than he loved her. He didn't make sacrifices and compromises the way she did. True love makes people compromise and sacrifice things.
Edit: Free PaIestine 🇵🇸 from the river to the sea 🌊
Is "it was harder on me than you so I'm the real victim" a good way to look at this story? It's like saying ppl who had it easier dont deserve to be acknowledged. There's always someone who has it harder. So that mentality is bullshit.
@@mikahong lol did i ever call Nicole "the real victim"? Or say that Charlie is horrible and to be blamed for everything? I'm not demonizing anyone. I'm just expressing my sympathy for Nicole whose real predicament we actually don't get to see in this movie, only Charlie's predicament.
@@FunnyLittleFrog idk if the film itself failed to show Nicole's story or you just missed it, either way my point is valid.
But with what you said, I wonder if people would be asking for let alone gaf abt Charlie's predicament if this film was just another men are trash and this fantastic main girl character got cheated on kind of story.
@@mikahong Your point is that the someone-always-has-it-harder mentality is bs. I disagree. While none of this was easy for either of them, Nicole had it harder than Charlie in the marriage while Charlie had it harder in the divorce. In the movie when they are arguing, Charlie exclaims, "I feel like I'm losing!" to which Nicole retorts "I already lost!"
Anyway, i'm not sure how to respond to your second paragraph except that despite everything, I did like 'Marriage Story'. Both were sympathetic, well-written characters. Nicole was not just a "fantastic main girl" and Charlie was not reduced to the "men are trash" trope. I will acknowledge that Nicole did have faults. She was not good at communicating her feelings to him, was disorganized, and not always sure what she wanted or didn't want. So I did like that about this film. In fact, I love Noah Baumbach movies and am waiting for his next one.
@@FunnyLittleFrog I'm not saying this film was like that, I'm saying that "he/she had it harder than him/her so they are the real victim is bs. It is.
Ye, tbh I wasnt expecting and real response to it.
The scene when Charlie sings 'Being Alive' broke my heart. Adam Driver is such a fantastic actor.
the part of this movie that i felt was the most frustrating was that charlie loved henry so much, but as nicole had mentioned, “hes in a mommy phase”. charlie tried so hard to get custody of henry, but the truth was that henry didn’t even want to be with his dad for the majority of the time. so he was fighting so hard for something that, in the long run, wouldn’t even benefit him. but again, charlie loved henry, he was his son. but i felt as though the feeling wasn’t mutual.
This had been my thoughts during the movie.
I was actually proud of Charlie for fighting for his child. Henry will get over his "mommy phase" and seek out his dad more eventually . Parents should fight for their kid regardless. Like you said, they love each other. Unconditional love.
Alll boys need their fathers at a certain point. When I was his age, I preferred my mother/grandmother but when I got older my dads wisdom and advice helped even more
This is one of the few movies that will probably be with me until I die. My parents divorced when I was very young, around Max’s age, and I was so confused and hurt, and I blamed myself. Later I started hating my parents because I felt they took away something I deserved, a family. Something that I saw other kids have and deeply yearned. As I grew up I realized that life and especially love is so much more complicated to put blame most of the times.
A lot of times I can learn things from movies, but I rarely find a movie that actually helps me grow as a person. Movies like this are legitimately rare and beautiful. Movies like these are the reason I love film and why I want to become a screenwriter
Ok
Max? I think you mean Henry
Thank you for your perspective! I hope you do become a screenwriter.
Best of luck bro.
Great comment!
this movie gave me a lot of raw emotions and by the end I was confused about how I felt once the credits rolled. I was still waiting on a catharsis, but that could be the meaning of Marriage Story. Even though there were little bits here and there that showed the love that they still had for each other by the end, I wanted more, but again, it's not a love story, it's a family story. I feel that Charlie could win her back if he continues to grow. He moved to LA, after the divorce. That is more of a silver lining to me than the shoe tying.
Nah they're better off not being together, she left him and her career/life took off, he was holding her back, shouldn't do that to your spouse, you should bring out their best, not their worst
@@PeterEhik the relationship didn't work because Charlie didn't see Nicole as an individual, like she said an extension of himself. Believe or not this divorce did bring out the best in them. Nicole found her voice and Charlie learned the value of being loved. Charlie could've easily went back to the side chick, but no, he took an extended job in the city he hates and allows Nicole to make decisions (wearing whatever costume and not voicing any unwarranted opinions).
@@dmarmartin He doesn't wanna be married though, he said that during their fight, never even wanted to get married in the first place, happens to a lot of us, kinda feel pressured into commitment, not all his fault, I'm sure she pressured him but he didn't want a real partner, he didn't see her for who she really was as a person, just who she is to him, like how a kid sees a parent and child/parent relationships aren't supposed to last forever, eventually you see your dad and mom as just people, flawed with hopes and dreams of their own independent of you.
@@PeterEhik he didn't* I'm looking at the people after the fight, after the divorce. I see the two people at the end as different from the people at the beginning and the ones at the courthouse
Dmar Martin They’re different people because they’re not together anymore. Breaking up let them grow and if they came back together, they’d probably regress back to the way they were.
It shows that sometimes love isn't enough. The ending is bittersweet even though it is almost the 'happy' outcome of a divorce, separate but civil. They do love each other but that doesn't mean they are good for each other.
Maeve H I read your comment just after having watched Normal People.Perfect case in point to your observation that sometimes love isn’t enough .
@Akshay 004 Yeah, I sided with Charlie by the end. And there are so many reasons to side with him.
He didnt love as much as nikole
it's an amazing movie but if it didn't have actors that were so big in Hollywood, this movie wouldn't be so popular but one of those underrated films.
my name's myriah Nah. The fact that it was Noah Baumbach and Netflix would’ve gotten some buzz and the fact that it’s good would’ve carried it from there
@@Chantal-612 that's not what history showed
There’s been plenty of films with no big name actors that get a lot of buzz. I think this is one of those movies
@@lukas4112 but there are a lot of divorce films and if Scarlett Johansen hadn't been in this, no one would've cares about it
my name's myriah not true. Movies don’t rely on star power for hype
The most bitter part is at the end when after the divorce, he came back to the house with the new guy playing w/ his son.
Charlie doesn't have a room there anymore. No pictures of him. G-ma has gotten awkward w/ him.
And the scene where Nicole, Henry and the new guy are in a matching bright outfit, whereas Charlie is in a ghost costume. It's literally him being a ghost in their new family now. That is so sad.
I saw myself as the son but only being honorable to my parents during the divorce. It just made me not forgive myself
On the other Hand he made himself the ghost. Sure he "hated" La, but does that really hinder you when you want a relationship with your child? I have seen a few divorces and the key metric in my opinion was how close the father stayed to the childs original lifes. There are fathers, like my uncle who decide it would be best to bring a border between himself and his ex and child (hint: both Times this was a shitty idea) and there are dads that move a few Blocks, so the child does not have to drive hours every few days to see their dad.
@@loewenmakrele At the end of the film, Charlie has given up his aspirations of being a director to work at a local university. He has moved into a home in LA, where he has no friends and no support structure. He also wipes out his savings fighting for custody. Honestly what else could he have done for his child? He lost everything else in his life just to stay close to him.
@@tristanneal9552 Which its kind of interesting. Seems like Nicole spend much of her life with him (by her choose ofc) doing things she didnt want to, and in the end, hes starting to do the same (by his choose too). Basically what im saying its the last like "... lost everything else in their life just to stay close to him" its for both. Dont u think?
Adam made me cry in this one.
Me too
Ditto, I started bawling during the infamous apartment fight with him and Scarlett. And when he completely breaks down... 😭
@@trinaq Damn near lost it myself during that scene and his meltdown - and I am a guy...
A girl and I that dated for 2 years almost got married, and when things started to end, in a lot of ways ended similarly to Nicole and Charlie’s relationship. This movie was an emotional experience for me. 10/10. My favorite movie of the year.
Same here with me and my ex of 3 years, it's been difficult but it was the right decision
I loved this movie. I literally cried at the part where she chooses his food from the menu. I knew there could be no other end to the movie but this part gutted me. Loved the movie.
This movie is so painful at times, especially if divorce is close to you
Being a child of divorce & messy family dynamics is one of the reasons I love Baumbach's work. Most of his work hits, on some level, close to home for me.
I love how the movie really explored both sides. She did sacrifice for love but in that big argument he reveals that he made sacrifices too. He wasn’t some evil unfeeling monster and she wasn’t a vindictive bitch. They were both people who loved each other but didn’t compromise or communicate when they should have. Yet there was still love there in the end.
They were each right in many aspects and wrong in others. That's marriage. The look Nicole gave to Charlie in the end felt like she still loved him. And the way Charlie reacted to her letter hit me harder than expected. Great movie 👍🏼
Charlie insisting on being Nicole's director is a serious red flag. He literally controls the way she talks, walks, and looks, which bleeds into their home life. If this dynamic is constant, throughout their career instead of just for a project or two... I don't blame her for wanting out. It's not healthy, especially since he refuses to allow her to pursue her dream of directing.
Totally that's pretty much abuse.
If Joquain Phoenix wasn't nominated for "Joker", then Adam DEFINITELY deserves to nab the Best Actor Oscar!🏆 His acting absolutely blew me away here, and shows that he can be more than Kylo Ren.💖😺
Trina Q check him out in Logan Lucky
In the Screen Actors Guild Awards, during Joaquin's Best Actor acceptance speech for Joker, he says that Adam "should be up here" while complimenting the other nominees. While Joaquin deserves it for Joker, any other year Adam would have gotten it probably
If you haven't already, watch him in Girls on HBO. He has been great for a while.
I would much prefer for Adam to win, but unfortunately that won't happen. Joaquin was good, though.
Trina Q Check him out in his indie films as well as The Torture Report on Prime.
The most deeply terrifying horror movie of 2019
Right?!
My parents got a divorce this summer after 21 years, it’s been hard, it still is. But this is something universal and it helps me see things from another perspective and appreciate me and my girlfriend’s relationship even more
Controversial opinion alert: Joaquin Phoenix was great but Adam Driver deserves the Oscar this year. The older I get the more I appreciate performances like his in Marriage Story. People think it’s easy to play a reserved quiet real character, but it’s not. It’s harder. Phoenix certainly has that reserved repressed energy to his character but it culminates in a big loud bombastic way (and that’s fine, I don’t expect a Joker performance to be subdued lol) but it was Adam Driver’s struggling, casual, compassionate Charlie and Robert Pattinson’s near wordless maddening Thomas in The Lighthouse that are the best performances this year for me. And since Pattinson wasn’t nominated (nice one academy) it should go to Driver without competition. But I know it won’t. It’ll go to Phoenix.
I personally thought Adam was better at the emotional acting. But consistency, having all of those emotions bottled up, becoming their character - that's Joaquin. And Scarlett, honestly. But no one's talking about her, and it's annoying me.
YZ I can see that opinion for sure. I just think the academy tends to reward the big loud ‘look at me look at me’ performances over the more subdued and measured ones. Year after year I see deeply personal quiet but powerful performances fall to the wayside in favor to whoever yelled the loudest and it never fails to frustrate me.
And I agree, I think the lack of buzz around Scarlet is disappointing but I think she has a better chance to win in her perspective category more than Adam does his.
@@aberrantcow She better, someone needs to win for marriage story and I want Joaquin to win for best actor, so...
Also, part of me is still shook this is scarlett's first year getting nominated... like wtf academy how
YZ oh wow! You’re right! It is her first year being nominated. And for best supporting actress too. Laura Dern will most likely bring that one home. I was hoping some of the actors from Parasite would have gotten some acting nods but since they didn’t I think Scarlet has this one in the bag.
@@aberrantcow hopefully she does, and I think Laura will win too. I hope they win, especially Scarlett, because then people won't look at me weirdly when I say she's a talented actress
It's a typical "marriage story": The man is oblivious to the women's needs, she compromises and sacrifices until she can't do it anymore and initiates the divorce eventually, he is surprised that what he had taken for granted is suddenly not his anymore. It's sad that some men only realize what they had when they lose it. Nicole's character says it: "He treated me like a part of his own", as a possession, that can't be taken away from him and has no free will. He would have never treated her with respect as long as she was his, that's the tragedy. Women have to fight for respect because we won't be given it voluntarily and that fight hurts everyone involved in the end.
Ironically both OP and you are like the movie characters. Both unable to understand each other’s point of view and dealing in only absolute truths in a world that is ever so messy and complex. It’s sad that both of you misunderstood so profoundly. Like the characters maybe u should put some childishness aside. بدر و بس
This. This is exactly what happened in the movie.
It's not gender specific. I'm an avoidant female that took a sensitive and loving man for granted, and lost him.
Yup. Exactly what happened!
J B it’s beyond that. if you rewatch the movie and take out her experience it’s not that he’s sad that he lose her. he’s sad that he wouldn’t see his son. this movie isn’t about their feelings for each other rather there concerns for their child’s future. charlie doesn’t fight for her but for his son. even with the argument you hear him say what does this have to do with california when she tries to spin it about their feelings for each other. bert even says the divorce was bond to happen just needed something important enough to fight about as well as the actors and actresses even said she was using this just to go to LA. this is about two people trying to fight for different things, the father his ability to be a parent to his son in the future and the mother the freedom and ability to prove she’s able and willing.
Your “take” is incredible. I very much appreciate your hard work.
Watching this really helped me understand the process of ending a realtionship but still appreciating the time spent together. Now comes the wine..
It's funny, I just finished watching Marriage Story literally two minutes ago and I was looking for a video like this lol
You just used up all your luck for the year! 🥺 I'm kidding, that's awesome
Same!!
Neat, that's a fantastic sign, I've just watched most of the 2019/2020 Best Picture Nominees, and I'm ready for The Take's Analysis Videos for Oscar Season!😊
It's the same thing that happened to me just now! Haha what a coincidence
Me too lol
I feel like this film is subconsciously Noah Baumbach’s own marriage story, like one day he just wrote it from the back of his mind and didn’t even know it.
I saw my parents a lot in this movie.
When I moved with my mom after the divorce, my dad would always say “I can still parent you even states away.”
this video makes me want to cry as someone who's going through a difficult time in my relationship, but the beginning line about being in love but not being right together really spoke to me, and is really scary.
i haven’t even watched most of the films you analyse but i just watch these videos because of the amazing analysis.
That kid was so oblivious to what was going on it bugged the shit out of me. my favourite scene was Charlie telling him to get in the fucking car 😂
The son was aggravating as sin. The one thing that really hurts is the ending when Charlie goes over to Nicole's house and he sees her boyfriend playing with their son, the mother in law was getting a but uncomfortable with Charlie, Charlie goes with them trick r treating as a ghost being distant away while Henry bonds with Nicole and Carter. That really broke my heart because that part reminds me of my parents and a depiction of how i took it. It just makes me feel guilty of how I was with my dad and my mom and her bfs
@@josephhernandez1885 I think it enhances the ending for that very reason. It's very realistic, this is how these things actually happen.
As someone going through a bad breaking up rn, this shit hits hard. Being in love with someone but knowing they're not the right one sucks. We both had our faults and messed up in the relationship but there was always that hope and understanding that we would make it through, however due to certain circumstances, that quickly dissolved into arguing and borderline hatred for one another. Trying to be mature and be friends was a mistake in this instance as we weren't capable to deal with being there for each other in a platonic way. 8 months of back and forth "I love you" "I Hate you" takes a toll on a person. Even if it wasn't the longest relationship it still left an impact on me as I now sort of understand what I'm looking for and how to deal with certain situations. I would hope these past months, for as hard as they were, brought at least some needed change for the both of us. We're not on good terms and we are out of each others life, and I wish the best for them, but I know if there was more contact between us it will just progressively become even more toxic than it was. I will always love them and they'll be in my heart, but also I hate them and I'm glad its over, a lot of mixed emotions. I'm not sure why I'm writing this, maybe just a way to get the emotions out, I don't know. But just because you love each other doesn't mean you're meant to be.
Thank you for sharing. I resonated a lot with this.
Agreed. It's very painful to hate someone you love.
Noah Baumbach does really show how conversations take place in corporeality.
Watching the movie it was a bit triggering for me given how ugly my parents divorce went out. I was in my late teens and my older siblings were in their early to mid twenties. We thought it was because one was to mentally unbalanced which somewhat eased the pain but one then starting doing some digging which could be evidence of a secret affair with a coworker. They deny it when I asked them about it but I’m not sure what to believe.
i have no desire to watch this movie for the same reason lol
Im sorry man
I am so sorry 😰
Emma W Harris don’t worry it’s been 4 years since then. After the whole incident many other unfortunately tragic events happened, like legit I could write a audio-biography about it. However ,since everything it’s become somewhat of a wake up call. I’m in my second year of college and I’m trying make friends along the way as I’m tired of being miserable for so long.
@@ianmeadows6941 good luck in your life Ian!! And always remember that you're someone's special person
Noah Baumbach couldn't have made this more autobiographical if he tried.
Actually there were some liberties. They separated around the time that his wife recently had their baby. But in the movie, their child is a bit older. Also, Noah claims never to have had an affair with his secretary unlike Charlie in the movie. Anyways, have a good day :)
This. It is absolutely tied to him.
And I wonder how Jennifer felt that this movie was loosely based on them but in a semi autobiographical way
they should have both won an oscar for this movie..
They were both nominated, we still don't know if they are gonna win or not. Adam will probably lose for Joaquin but I still have hope for Scarlett
You're from the future?
The Oscar hasn’t happened yet...
Gé Rosalem, I thought Adam was better than Scarlett. Both actors performed extraordinary, though.
You’ve no idea how much I love this movie. I did not expect to be so uplifted after watching a movie about divorce. It’s beautiful and so sad.
As a child from divorce it’s always important to try and remember what kindled your marriage and carry that when you’re going through court. My parents went in mutual and on good terms but came out hating each other. It’s amazing how he directed and shot this to make parents both seem victims of Love and the divorce system. Its crazy.
The Take deserves every one of its subscribers! Great job as always.
I hope you make an analysis of Waves by Trey Edward Shults when it gets a little more popularity
There are two kind of people that have seen Marriage Story: those that felt they were getting a divorce and those who felt their parents were getting divorced. Legit, there's no in between.
I’m neither.
I thought at first it could be a beautiful love story lol
this was truly a great film. it’s so realistic and universal in such a beautiful way. i love how this movie shows that a love story isn’t always going to end with romance. this movie showed an experience that two people shared together for a really long time and that they’ll always have those memories together. in a way i feel the divorce brought them closer, not as lovers, but as humans.
I'm glad someone tried to show what is wrong with the divorce system rather than it being exclusively about one party having done some terrible act.
We should really make it illegal for divorce lawyers to get any % and instead have a fixed rate no matter how much or how little money one party has. It's bad for them to have an incentive to steal money from the opposing party.
Yeah. They see divorce as profit.
@@rickardkaufman3988 Pretty much yes, saw a video a couple of years ago about a guy who used to be a lawyer exclusively targetting women with rich husbands. He had tactics on how to trick the women into getting them to threat the fathers with false stories using custody as a bargaining chip so that men end up paying for the rest of their lives even after the kids are grown.
And if there was no kid he still managed to get his clients up to 600.000 per year so he would earn 250.000 dollars without having to do any work.
It all might have started out as a way to protect women but now it's something disgusting.
IT IS illegal for a family lawyer to receive a contingency payment in a divorce case. It is against the American Bar Association (ABA) for a family (or criminal) lawyer to get a percentage of the settlement. Family and criminal lawyers only get a flat fee (i.e. $500 per hour). That’s why the cocky lawyer that Adam Driver ends up with says “my rate is $850 an hour” NOT “I get 20% of your settlement”
Actually what is wrong is that lawyers can be priced as high as possible without any maximum limit. Making either opposing or defending side very vulnerable if they lose. So most people would try hire someone as expensive as possible and see both sides empty their pockets for the lawyers who just had to put up an act in front of judges for money. End of the day lawyers are cool with each other and the clients are not.
@@kirag9509 My sweet summer child, just wait until you get a divorce depending on who doesn't have any money to pay the lawyer, the lawyer will create a back end payment plan.
"I didn't even know what my taste was anymore" really hit me. I've been in a relationship where I felt I lost myself and didn't know who I was. I feel like that specific feeling/problem isn't talked about enough. Anyway I left that relationship, and I'm still finding myself and I always will be, but now I've been with my boyfriend for 3 years who values my opinions and character and understands. It's beautiful. I hope everyone finds someone that makes them feel so valued and understood and loved for who they are, because everyone deserves to feel that way 💜
I think this movie utilized the similar elements in Company the musical so well. That musical is probably my all-time fav just because it explains and explores relationships and intimacy and wanting to love and be loved so so well. They both portrayed the loneliness and the struggles of finding real connections, even if you're with someone.
You guys need to do The Lighthouse. I love that movie but I wish it made more sense. Also, maybe Twin Peaks in the future?
i just watched this movie with my girlfriend yesterday and cried at the end because the whole movie reminded me of my childhood
Please! Do an Crazy Ex-girlfriend take!!! The way that show talks about personality disorders it's awesome and like tailor suited for your show!!!
As a child of divorce, this movie brought up some of the worst memories for me and to this day I keep going back to the movie and comparing it to my own life. Sometimes I wonder if I would have spared myself the pain of watching it if it wasn’t for the fact that it had Scarlett Johansson and Adam Driver.
I honestly refuse to watch the Halloween scene at the end
A lady I'm dating and I watched this waking up this morning after a long night. She cried at the end when she tied his shoe and explained to me that it has to be that way for the sake of the kid. Which makes total sense. I've never been married or have a kid, but I did have a girlfriend that was pregnant twice and dealing with that relationship you can feel it and I definitely shed a tear at the end. Scarlett and Adam and amazing actors.
I totally agree with everything you mention in about this movie; and I totally did miss Charlie in the second Halloween scene. 😜
If i was to watch this again, i would refuse to watch the 2nd Halloween scene
This movie was so well done. Makes me feel even more empathy for my father.
Also, thanks for the “First Wive’s Club” references! God I love that movie!!
Communication really lacking between this couple, we only get raw emotions and the impact of their resentful.
They only honest when no other around.
Also this movie should teach us that married is a big thing, the next step of your life.
Where you live,what you gonna sacrifice, are you gonna have a child etc
My parents have been together for 20 years and cried a lot watching this movie. Thanks Noah for making this magnum opus.
The only thing I learned from this film is that it's a "compromise" when you're in love, but a "sacrifice" when you feel slighted.
The scene after the Nancy lady leaves where Charlie desperately tries to stop his arm from bleeding with as much nonchalance as possible all the while he’s progressively fainting from losing too much blood will forever kill me with that single captured detail of Henry spilling a splatter of milk on the floor his father’s lying on as he walks around him and back to his room to continue playing. I think it might be one of the most metaphorically accurate and beautiful depictions of what it means to be a parent and what it feels like to be in a divorced relationship upkept and bound by the child solely. This movie is so real it hurts.
The Squid And The Whale is about the divorce of Noah's parents.
Marriage Story is about his own divorce with his first wife.
greatly portray the fact that we can never understand someone's pain until we hear their side of story or that we faced the situation ourselves
I didn't know anything about the director but it make sense that it from the pov of the husband for most of the film. I kept hearing it was from both sides but it really wasn't at all. They didn't get 50/50 screen time and it made it seem like she was unreasonable. He cheated on her, ignored her career goals. When they had the big fight he accused her of being a martyr; not really wanting what she said but to be able to say he won't let her. This is after she already move to L.A. She already set her goals into motion but he still think it's all talk and not a big deal? Its was odd and great how that flipping me from feeling bad for him to finally seeing her side. He didn't listen to her or care about what she wanted all. But the fact that (SPOILER ALERT) he moves to LA anyway was very bitter sweet.
It only implies who was Charlie along the marriage, a lot of people didn't pay attention to this signals and feel sorry for him 😅 and i am agreed with the idea that the movie doesn't give the time to Nicole to explain her whole story.
Yeah, plus he cheated with someone from THEIR WORK, it is very obviously why she wanted to quit. I suspect her initial suggestion was that they both step away from the company and start afresh closer to her home and family, especially now she has a child. She isn't so well suited to the theatre, and she wanted a fresh start. Neither of those requests are in themselves unreasonable, and because he had cheated the onus would really be on him to step away; at one stage he had promised to move there eventually anyway.
But by doing that she makes him choose between his career - the company is really his baby - and her, and he didn't choose her. Is that maybe why she refuses to negotiate any further with the mediator etc? He underestimates her I think, focusing too narrowly on his work and sidelining her as someone who only works on his projects, who has no creative voice of her own, when in reality you see she makes good points when she's on set. The story is from his POV so they are belittled a bit, but she does have talents that he won't let her use, basically because he's too competitive and maybe subconsciously sees it as a threat.
kahkah1986 I’ve honestly always believed you should never work with your husband. It’s honestly too much saturation in one other person. We need time apart to reaclimate and not get on each other’s nerves. And the competition aspect is less an issue when you’re not showing up one another at the same skill set. So separate fields of work are also better. Pity people spend so much time working that that’s where they meet people. The shared interests that draw you together at the start can push you apart later.
THANK YOU!
@@just1desi yup, you could maybe argue that as it was his company she was wrong to just ask him if she could direct it because it put him in a weird conflict of interest situation. He sees her as an actress, and he has a very specific view of what an actress should be. You need that tunnel vision as a director, but in life it's a bad idea to not take others on board. It is normal for people to get passed over for promotion at work, for example, if someone decides they wouldn't fit, but marriage does complicate things because there are obviously more emotional issues.
I loved this movie more than I thought I would. My parents divorced when I was 4 and I don't remember anything about it but the I'm still experiencing it's effects 12 years later. Such a beautiful film.
idk dude during the big break-down scene I couldn't with the line "Every day I wake up wishing you were dead!" and his admitting he didn't want to get married and didn't really love her... I just can't deal with it. How awfully cruel. Maybe I have very high standards, but I can't imagine viewing my lover in a way nearly so harsh and heartless. My sympathy evaporated at that line and I decided Adam Driver's character has a massive victim complex.
They don't belong together. There's no need to diagnose Charlie with a massive victim complex to see that.
Charlie, when he gets his way, like what happened in the marriage when they don't move to LA, can't be the victim. He doesn't have a victim complex during the marriage. We see when he doesn't get his way, when he can't get custody in NY, he loses. It's not wrong to see Charlie having a massive victim complex.
Nicole knows this about Charlie. She says so to Nora, her divorce lawyer. She gets smaller and he gets bigger. She's not seen. After all this, Nicole wants to divorce fairly. Fairness takes sympathy. Seeing Charlie as unsympathetic yet going for fairness just makes Nicole's sympathetic approach just make sense.
@@utnis you're in luck, victim complex is not a diagnosis and has no diagnostic criteria so in fact I did not attempt to diagnose anyone :)
Same. I went through an ugly divorce with a genuine abusive narcissist and I still never said those kind of things out loud. And when I would say then out loud in prayer, I realized I didn’t really mean them.
That line has something else behind it. Daniel Sloss made a very good comedy special around this idea "sometimes you love someone dearly but they make your life complicated, especially if you want to do things they dont want to do, and often if you break up its as if one of you suddenly became the villain, so, wouldnt it just be technically easier if one of you died? No ones 'the villain' that way". There are many things that can be said about that, but I dont think hes necessarily wrong, because breaking up with someone IS far more complex to end a relationship than a tragical sudden death. Only and purely only talking technically a death makes it simple. If a partners dead and you were planning to break up then hey you no longer get to break their heart, they are dead. Thats kinda the dark point and the reason why Adam says hes sorry. To carry those dark thoughts is one thing but to outloud say them completely shows to the other person your deepest darkest mental state, so he falls to the groundand cries saying sorry.
Pretty please take this all with a huge grain of salt, there are layers to this whole mess
Well he doesn't view his lover that way, it's how he views the woman trying to take his child from him. She had long since stopped occupying the role of "lover", and the new context she operates under changes how he sees her.
She had just told him she finds him physically repulsive and a bad father, and compared him to his alcoholic and abusive father. I doubt she meant all of that, it was said in the heat of the moment, and I doubt she felt that as strongly when they were still lovers. I think the same goes for Driver's character as well. I don't think he meant all of that, as evidenced by his breakdown and her comforting him, and even if he does believe some of it he likely didn't believe it as strongly back when they were married.
I... can't watch this. It hit me hard. Because my parent's separation was because when it boils down to it my dad was emotionally abusive.
Movie definitely convinced me to never get married or have kids, Jesus, doesn't seem worth the hassle.
@Akshay 004 yeah cos marriage is a bad deal for a woman
Mgtow
Especially for women
This film reminds me so much of my parent’s’ marriage even though they have been married for 20 years now. It’s scary how real their behaviour is.
Love ur video essays. Big fan. Please continue doing what you do!
A little thing I had noticed after I watched a second time was that the scenes that have nicole Charlie and Henry were shot in a way where all of them were in the shot witch to me gives the impression of a family and how a child can bring people together and tear them apart because of the love they have for eachother and that child absolutely beautiful movie
This movie deserves an Oscar. Period.
And it did
this reminded me so much of my parent's marriage so much that i had to stop watching it after the yelling scene and cry for like 5 hours straight.
If Nicole had read the letter she wrote about Charlie at the beginning of the movie, would they end up changing their minds about getting the divorce???
There are many questions like that throughout the movie, but you have to remember "if that character did this or that would things have changed" you have to apply it to all the other questions.
If they had gone to LA would he and her have changed their minds, if he hadnt slept with another woman would they change their minds, if he had let her direct a movie or if she had only married him after he had lived his 20s more would they have changed their minds. You cant focus on only one, but the accrued many
I just like how they though they fight, they're still be able to have decent and peaceful conversation, even if they are in the process of divorce, I felt that they're genuine and kind to each other.
The little boy got on my nerves.
Waaayyy too much back talk for someone who could barely read.
Or he was expressing his own view, children are allowed to do that you know.
I hope if you decide to have a child, it's when this thought process changes. That kid was Literally one of the most non complaining child I've seen in movies or in divorce situations. He didn't even know any cuss words. The P in parenting stands for Patience.
Agreed. I get that in many peoples eyes, he was pretty realistically portrayed, but I still wanted to slap him. Absolutely no idea why either parent wanted to be stuck with him 😂
Kids sense subtle cues. I'm certain his behaviors are a reflection of how his parents act around him. Kids with divorced parents have trouble adapting to the ever changing environment. It's not the kids' fault for the divorces.
Then you don’t have kids.
This is my favourite movie ever. I honestly can’t believe the talent.
A channel i love making an analysis of a film i love
Women think love is the most important emotion, men just think its one of many.
This was a great film, from someone who is undergoing seperation.
"Finds love in a hopeless place", sponsored by Rhianna
This was such a hard movie to watch for me. It was a year ago that my divorce was finalized...i took the film at face value and cried through the entire thing.
You are strong to get through it all. Hugs 🤗
To be honest, this movie felt like prime oscar bait. Two household name actors in a personal, small-cast drama that felt like a play, in which two theater- and movie-artists go through a divorce. I mean, come on.
That being said, I enjoyed the movie, if only for the performances of ScarJo and Adam Driver. Super frustrating movie overall, as I always felt like they could make it work if they only communicated their hopes and dreams a little better, but well-made.
Finally someone said it. Scar Jo is cheesy and annoying as hell as with everything she does and Adam Driver is overrated and pitiful.
As a person who's parents recently split I can tell you that is *exactly* what happens in real life. At first they tried to communicate reasonably but the lawyers had them at each other's throats in a matter of months, and neither party can have a proper conversation anymore
@@nunyabusiness42069 I was talking more abt the cast dont get me wrong the story was something I took srsly.
@@mikahong of course, I was more replying to OPs comment than to yours since they did talk about the plot
Man the rest of the note that gets narrated at the end of the movie got me. And straight after when she tied his shoe lace.
I think the main point of this movie is that love and marriage is a choice you make everyday. And when you choose not to communicate and be open (which is a form of intimacy) with the other person, then it drives you apart. Because you haven't chosen to do the work required for the relationship, you've chosen to do what you want which is to make you feel like a big man again (Charlie) or become the martyred woman (Nicole).
I’m a kid of divorce and this is all very real for my parents, and I feel like I’m going through it now with my own relationship, maybe seeing happen to them gave me an idea of what relationships are supposed to be. I don’t really believe in marriage anymore and this is true for a lot of my friends who also have divorced parents
The law in our country requires that you and your spouse are unable to communicate to even be considered. The parties can't just agree to disagree and be separated, they have to be 'unable' to be together. So one of the spouse should take the fall, and be the bad guy/girl for the separation to be approved by law.
It's insane.
Watched it a couple of days ago, I wasn't aware of Scarlet Johansson and Adam Driver both talent for drama. They absolutely nailed it, most of all that arguing scene ❤️
Spoilrers ahead
Am I the only one who felt sorry for Adam Driver's character in the end? I mean, yes he did make mistakes and yes he cheated etc., but in the end she had it her way all the way and she did things that were wrong too.
Awesome movie anyways!
I did too, but the film takes care to balance BOTH sides of the conflict. Charlie and Nicole are both shown to have valid arguments, and neither of them are presented as completely in the right.
Cheating a deal breaker. If my hasband cheated I will devorce him.
@@trinaq yeah but we "see" charlie's suffering in the movie, meanwhile scarlet's suffering its tell to us, something like "yeah I suffer every single year since we been married". And then "we", the audience, feel bad for the guy because we've seen him suffer while we dont see scarlett suffer, and we dont really need to see her crying or struggling every single time to get us on her side, she already suffer enough off-screen.
But I think in the end it was best for Charlie now he can be on his own as he wanted to be and work on his career
@Carter Atwell No, it shows how men sometimes neglect their families and let their wives take care of the kids, only ever compromise their egoistic wishes when they are forced to and want to have custody after divorce then just because they want it. It's obvious Henry wants to stay in LA but Charlie wants him to move back to New York "to win", although his connection with him is clearly not as strong as Nicole's.
Charlie's not the victim, he's the one who wrecked the marriage and only ever wakes up during the divorce after everything is already ruined. He thinks he's entitled to Henry just because he is used to getting what he wants but objectively, Nicole is just the better parent. The divorce system is the only level playing field, men just perceive it as skewed because they are used to being judged more favourably everywhere else. It's the male-dominated world around it that's skewed, not the divorce system.
No matter how difficult and complicated this relationship was, it made me commiserate and also, yearn to be on either side, because at least both were at some point willing and able to hear the others pain and put the kids first.
Going through a divorce with a malignant mentally ill (NPD or BPD, I’m not sure which) person who weaponizes our children, makes this look like a walk in the park. Painful, relatable, heart wrenching yes, but to anyone who has had to navigate protecting kids in relationship with an abuser… .
You know you’re right some of the best love stories don’t have the couple end up together like Her and Lost in Translation. Which coincidentally enough both have Scarlett Johansson.
The end reminds me of my parents they became friends in Middle school and got married later in their 30's they couldn't stay married but they still stay friends they both go to dinners with their spouses together and have conversations over the phone and support each other I don't know any friends of mine who's divorced parents are friends like mine are the end where they still stay friends hits home a little bit
I personally believe Scarlett Johansson deserved Oscar for this role.
Its nice when a video can put your stray thoughts about a movie into concrete words. You really nailed what made this film so engaging!
I feel like this movie vilifies Jay but treated Nora differently even though they were both essentially doing the same thing for their perspective clients.
For me they represented Nora as the women Nicole wants to be, but Jay was like a polar opposite of Charlie
I think the word you're looking for is 'respective' rather than 'perspective', but yes I agree.
I think each lawyer cleverly acted in a very calculated manner to get the job and to try to win - Nicole wouldn’t have hired Nora if she were aggressive like Jay… Nora was subtle but manipulative - she knew exactly what to say and when to say it. Jay was the choice for someone desperate who felt they were losing… just having fired the ethical guy.
Goosebumps! What a great video
9:25 Wow... I ACTUALLY missed Charlie there...
me too!
I love the Take, and love this movie. I only wish my parents were able to watch this when I was younger...
thank you for your content.
“...after Charlie falters after getting his grant”
If i recall, Nicole purposefully f**** that up for him, so the Emmy nomination line is especially frustrating. Charlie did not self sabotage there and i think the film does slightly portray Nicole as more of a villain. Charlie’s “SeLFiShnESs” is loosely defined
How...?
I disagree. Both are flawed. Nobody is perfect.
I agree. I see some evidence of Charlie being selfish, but I see quite a bit of Nicole not clearly speaking up about what she wants, too. Not just with Charlie, but with her lawyer, too. They were both very flawed though.
Rishi Kaufman i am talking about how she is portrayed, not my personal opinion of her. I think the film vilifies nicole slightly more
@@oneslikeme Nicole is just too Nice to stand up for herself and speak her mind, none of them are bad people.