In the book, its clear that they are both messed up. Amy is a complete psychopath, but is also very impressive.. while Nick is more normal, both in his flaws and his ability. Both narcissists. Really interesting dynamic.
I agree with your take. I read it as they are both narcissistic albeit different types of narcissism. Both have zero self awareness of that fact and thinks themselves the perpetual victim.
Amy has a dysfunctional twin relationship as she is constantly put into competition with "Amazing Amy". The author contrasts this with a true, loving twin relationship between Nick and Margo - they love each other, no matter what. They can at least draw on their love for each other, whereas Amy has almost a parasitic twin who is draining life energy away from her.
listening and reading amy’s resentment to amazing amy and the Hopes (all the miscarried and stillborn daughters of her mother) makes your take soooo valid. I never realized this.
I love that monologue, but you can't miss the nuance in it (and I'm not saying you did! Just wanna talk about it). Amy wasn't forced into being a cool girl by Nick. She's been made into this by her parents and the pressures put on women by society, sure, but in the long run she *chose* to become Cool Amy. She chooses to give into these pressures and put on façades.
@@luckas221a that's a very interesting take. I agree in the sense that she choose to be "cool girl", but imo that was to win Ben over. Once she stopped being "cool girl", he lost interest in her and went to find another younger and hotter "cool girl". But yeah, her parents definitely messed her up.
@@luckas221a But enough men know it's an act and don't care. They want women to be an extension of themselves. Society grooms women into this role and indoctrination is difficult to get rid off. If women stopped giving a shit then billion dollar industries would collapse and these industries know what to prey on.
@@femaleskater1185 What I mean is that she could have rejected all that. Been something else. But her desire for approval made her force herself into that mold!
She probably has such elements in her also.Good directors usually cast actors that have similarities with the character like the case of Bryan Cranston and Walter White.
@@kokomanationI like acting in amateur Theater groups, which has been an interesting exercise in getting to know myself. I like playing the villains, the crueler the better. For me, this is a role that I would never play in real life, but that can be cathartic to act as in a setting where the curtains can fall, and the consequences stay on stage. If my character liked someone, that person is now alive again, backstage with me. If she tormented and hurt someone, that person is unscathed and happy now. Nobody suffers once the curtain has fallen, everything is still okay. But I could still express deep anger, deep resentment, etc. I could express an overblown view of frustration in life in a way that didn’t hurt anyone.
this is such an immature read on how acting works - she's just highly skilled at her craft, not a psychopath because she's a good actress@@kokomanation
And it was refereshing to see her being cast against type since previously she has been typecast for the same role over and over again that made her super underrated. Some actors have a role of a lifetime, Amy Dunne is that type of role for Pike
I feel like the reason many woman relate to or like the character is revenge fantasy. A character like Nick that is lazy, inconsiderate, inconsistent, and a cheater is very reminiscent of a lot of resentful marriages and these men are not good men. She could do what many unhappy marriages cannot, force your uncaring partner to care about you. Manchild types drain your life force. Obviously, she is a villain, but I fully understand women who are interested in the character.
Love how you typically lay much of the blame at the man's door. That's right: Women are always the victims, in reality, and it's because of MEN that turns some into murderous psychopaths. If it weren't for Nick, Amy would be the sweet, kind, good woman she actually is. It's like you watched this excellent analytical review of the film and either couldn't understand what the host said, or chose to ignore everything the host said, because it's not convenient to think that women can also be "inconsiderate, inconsistent, and a cheater." Noooo, that would ruin the Woman as Forever Victim trope. Seriously! *Facepalm*
@@klientprobymen being shitty in marriage isn’t new and happens a lot so obviously a lot of women are gonna relate. We know amy is crazy lol but the same way men idolize villains like American psycho, women find Amy iconic
I just finished reading the book and this is exactly what I need!! The ending part is what really got me thinking. It goes: “My gosh, Nick, why are you so wonderful to me?” He was supposed to say: You deserve it. I love you. But he said, “Because I feel sorry for you.” “Why?” “Because every morning you have to wake up and be you.” Knowing that Amy has a Personality Disorder, Nick saying this to Amy is a violation ahahaha
One of the things that still sticks with me and scares me a year after watching the movie and reading the book is the fact that Amy can turn her kid against Nick or kill them both or manipulate them if she feels the need to or has the whim to. It's just frightening.
That’s why I think this story is engaging. Because people CAN sympathize with Amy, especially women. Nick is selfish and immature. But Amy is a total psychopath. She’s more interesting because some of her reasons for being angry at Nick are valid, but she would have done this to him even if he was a good guy.
I kind of disagree. Amy is only sympathetic from the narrative she herself constructs to set him up. Nick is selfish in that he uprooted her and moved so he could help his parents, but she herself does a similar thing by giving them her money. They have REAL everyday normal marital issues that she escalates into trying to get her husband killed. Like yeah sure an affair is bad but from a narrative perspective she becomes someone her husband didn't sign for. That's kind of the point, even from her perspective, that all of this is normal boring bullshit neither of them signed up for. She ultimately blames this on Nick, but never addresses how she herself failed to fix things or prevent these issues. The thing that makes her insane is the lengths and determination she went to to realize her escape from it. In the end Nick is molded into something she finds worthy of herself, but that's only because he was fighting for his life. He himself seems to enjoy who he has become and the future he has of matching wits with her. It really doesn't matter who it was. If you weren't providing what she wanted from you she would have axed you from her life like this, just for fun. We see that in how she handled her exs and her friend. It's amazing that the book doesn't hint that she plans to take revenge on the pair that robbed her while she was hiding out, because no matter how long it took she would do that.
There are people who actually still defend her characters actions because of "misogyny". Did they forget that she has a history of setting her previous boyfriends up, lying, pretending to be someone else, and even planned on killing herself just to get back at him for cheating and being lazy.
All women are immune to criticism and cannot be judged on any moral criterion (unless they're politically inconvenient to feminism). The feminist ideology makes it a point to set up the rationalization for this sexist approach and to justify treating men and boys as inferior mortals and treating women and girls as blameless victim class. Women are not to be held accountable for their crimes, in keeping with traditional gynocentric attitude which - surprisingly - feminism, which claims to smash tradition and traditional gender roles, but upholds and cements sexist attitudes when they support the feminist female-supremacist agenda. This elevation of women to the effective status of royalty or even worshipped deity is done to hook women up on all the female ego-masturbation and cause them to support feminism, so feminist bureaucrats can exploit those women and draw from women's considerable social power and their (traditional) status as imparters of morality and values. In short, feminism is a scam and a giant extortion racket.
People idolize Patrick Bateman and fight club (mainly guys). No one bats a eye because it’s soooo sigma and alpha male. But when women like female villains and enjoy their character it’s wrong.
Amy and Nick are both sociopaths, one only commits murders but they are both still exactly like each other, hence the attraction. They both lied to attract one another then realised they resent each other for exactly the same thing ...they are a mirror image of one another.
@@RandomPerson28337 I agree. @abbiealverez2960 has terrible insight and is confused about what the actual psychological labels / diagnoses mean are versus disliking a person (character) who has done things they don't like or maybe doesn't live up to expectations. Nick was a guy who came off as valueable to Amazing Amy because he was charmismastic, and used his slight of hand with effort early on. When it came down to his relationship with Amy steady state, it wasn't anywhere close to that and their relationship got strained. At this point no one has done anything remotely blameworthy outside of themselves. Amy chose the wrong dude, Nick chose to be, you could say "tricked" a woman he couldn't satisfy to be with him. Then he cheated; so yeah, he committed the first offense to someone other than himself. But the motivation to cheat is laid out and straight forward. Amy could have ended the relationship, or call it out and work on it which is what any normal person would do. But her character defect/diagnoses (narcissism/sociopathy) required she get revenge on Nick in the "worst way" possible. Not just some level of psychological harm to make him feel bad, but actually make him suffer consequences from other people, in front of other people. This is how narcissists work. They don't hurt you as a side effect of normal, natural, or low effort path to peace or pleasure. They actively think about and plan how they will hurt you, and it specifically inflict "necessary or more" damage. A normal person could not do anything close to that for two reasons: 1) it's high effort only meant to harm someone else. It's easy enough to reactively punch someone, break their property, and yell mean things and those are common responses towards someone who hurt you. But concoct, implement, and lay witness to a plan requiring hundreds of hours of work? No, hurt people will probably tire out from the hurt alone with little energy left over to do such a thing. 2) In order for narcissists to exact their revenge they fully pretend to engaged and still friendly with you. #2 is why narcissists and sociopathy can come together. Normal people cannot hold such a strong negative emotion about a person and hide it in front of their face. Still smiling, kissing, complimenting, having sex maybe -- everything relatively taking a normal course until the plan comes into action. Normal people have only a very small window (few max days maybe?), for a very specific and extremely necessary purpose, the ability to act substantially out of their character. Any longer and it's likely they will lose the facade and a normal person will notice something's changed.
@@EbonySeraphim very true nick was a regular guy unlikeable maybe but a cluster B? Thats Amy a woman who if she was real should be behind bars. I dont understand why people are supporting such a character or trying to justify her actions or try to make nick look just as bad when in reality nick is the real victim here.
@@EbonySeraphimcool but I wouldn't call OPs comment terrible insight just cause she used a word that in our society is used to as an umbrella term for people struggling with authentic empathy. It's not the correct term and their observation wasn't as detailed as yours, but you could have just expended and explain instead of degrading OP.
In the end I thing Nick sort of loved the crazy girl part of Amy. He liked the fact that she killed for him and I know he feels wrong in his heart but his head is leading him where the serotonin and false approval lies. Amy is crazy but so is Nick and he loves it, all the characters are horrible people except for Go and Bolt.
right. amy is a raging, manipulative mental patient and nick says that he planned on divorcing her but it’s either she’ll manipulate him into staying and he does or he says he plans on doing so but he doesn’t actually go through it (if she didn’t do her plan.) i feel as though he will never leave amy because like she said, she was his security blanket.
Nick will always be the victim, the good guy, the sane one, the stable one, as long as he stays with Amy. I’ve seen people stay with batshit crazy people, because it makes them feel better about their problems. They drink, but their partner drinks more. They are bad with money, but their partner is worse. They are a bad parent, but their partner is worse. They never have to address their own problems with the other person around, and instead can reassure themselves that they are doing ok. Nick’s pathological need to be the good guy is forever nourished by staying with Amy.
Having read Gillian Flynn's three full-length novels and her short story, what I've come to love about her characters is how human they are at the core. Amy isn't a monster or something inhuman like the villain in a horror story, she's a representation of so many human elements, but twisted into a psychopath for the purposes of a marriage-thriller. Nick is a man who isn't quite a good *or* bad person, but ends up having to face the consequences of his worst decisions. I've noticed that none of Gillian's protagonists are likeable in the traditional sense - we connect to them because we relate to their human flaws, but none of them have qualities that really make us think, 'they seem reliable, I'd want to be friends with them.' But that's the fact of being a human - we're ugly sometimes, and I find that Flynn explores that ugliness masterfully, which is why she's one of my favourite authors.
I really wish "Dark Places" had a better adaptation. In my humble opinion, that is the best work of Flynn. The storytelling, atmosphere, character development and the final reveal--- everything is gut punching and top tier.
@@shreyasingh117 We're supposed to get another go around with "Dark Places" in the near future. This time as an HBO miniseries and with Gillian Flynn as executive producer/writer. Hopefully, it'll be on the same quality as "Sharp Objects" and "Gone Girl" in terms of adaptation.
@@sder Thanks, man. We can probably think of a few more great villains, though! I later thought of Hans Landa, Annie Wilkes from Misery, the home-invasion duo from Funny Games, and John Doe from Seven. And that's all just one type of villain: the methodical psycho. I am also partial to the force-of-nature type villains, like the alien from Alien, the evil dimension in Event Horizon, or the nuclear reactor in the Chernobyl miniseries. Amy is human. She can be bargained with. These guys are Lovecraftian. There is no bargaining, they simply don't care. They just follow their nature, and their nature is to destroy us. Makes them extra scary IMHO.
@@jones2277 She is the villain from a narrative perspective, because she presents the major obstacle for the hero, McMurphy. She is a villain also because she is nasty; lawful evil on a permanent power trip. Despite being a health professional, she has no empathy. Ratched is in no way concerned with the inmates' health, well-being, or improvement, let alone their individual needs and ambitions. Instead, all she wants is order, and she is willing to be petty and cruel to attain it. It does not matter to her that the order serves no rehabilitative function because, again, she is not concerned with the inmates' health. She does not care about them at all. You can sympathize with her, if you want - and it is fine to sympathize with a villain - but I think a villain she is, under every technical definition.
@@angelawydro6844no they’re right imo. People who have black and white thinking who have lived amongst people long enough know that they can’t act on this black and white thinking because society will shun them . That’s why Amy is seen as calculative, she thinks about every action she makes because she HAS to. She doesn’t think like regular people, and she has to hide that. Excessive altruism is also very suspicious so the safest spot is to lie in the middle so that you don’t stand out. That’s where the ‘grey behaviours’ come in.
One of the men Amy encountered with during her trip is Desi Collings and I think he's just the male version of Amy, who is as much manipulative and controlling as Amy. But in the end Amy outwitted him.
In the book, it's even more disturbing. It was a while since I read it, but I recall Desi's mum appears as a character and she looks remarkably similar to Amy. I even believe it's noted like twice that Amy and Desi's mum look almost identical. So... make of that what you will.
The back story of Amy not living up to her parents' expectations (they even wrote how she SHOULD have succeeded, to please them) rings very true to me. My ex husband has NPD, I believe, and I also believe that it is because his own parents placed too high expectations upon him. He was made to feel inadequate inside, so you get this fragile, brittle narcissism which exists to protect the ego which has been so damaged. He really showed his true colours when I was pregnant with our child (even though he really wanted me to be pregnant) because just by existing, vulnerable and needing nurturing and protection, I was making subconscious demands upon him, which he didn't feel he was able to supply. Therefore, looking at pregnant me made him feel uncomfortable and he came to resent me for it.
@@biteofdogThey still, may have worked through it, now, though.... Plenty of people work better together, after a divorce, working better, as friends, or acquaintance's
I could maybe see that, just like when Phoenix got denied Best Supporting Actor in Gladiator. It seems like people can be biased against villains when it comes to awards for great acting.
Many people on the internet type should of or would of instead of should have, or would have, the correct way. Must be people who don't read. So they're typing what they hear
Having been married for nearly a decade it scares me that even a portion of my marriage could be built on lies. Because above everything else we promised we told each other we would never lie to one another. Even if the truth hurts us both. And if that makes me naive then I guess I am. Maybe in another decade I might see things differently.
@@CordeliaWagner but I'm telling the truth. It really would bother me if I found out a part of my life was a lie. Depending on the lie it could destroy the foundation on which my marriage lays. Its like living with a terminal illness only to find out half way through your life you were never sick in the first place.
@@jth4242 i regret to inform you that narcissists are indeed real and do fake entire personalities and lives just to get what they want. ie the many people who have actually experienced this lmfao.
For anyone who liked “Gone Girl” - there’s an awesome book called “Behind Closed Doors” about a crazy marriage. Not as nuanced as Gone Girl but still a satisfying read.
Is Amy extreme in the story? Yes. Is she wrong for framing Nick and murdering Desi? Yes. But Gone Girl has its iconic status because Amy is a relatable antihero in some way, and their messed up marriage and its stages are recognizable to many. That’s why this story is chilling and memorable.
Yes, Gone Girl ultimately seems to be more about real relationships than it is about the extreme mystery / thriller events that play out in the story. By the end it even becomes a satire suggesting that mature marriages are held together more by a kind of blackmail than loyalty or love. It's an exaggeration, but there is some truth to this that many will recognize. The way the film allows the audience to enjoy the mystery and thriller elements while also making it about real relationships is truly brilliant.
@@KayButtonJayits staggering that people dont do this. Your husband cheating on you is terrible but the insane revenge plot where she plans to ruin his life, discredit him publicly, take everything from him, and then KILL HERSELF to get back at him is insane and it scares tf out of me when people say Amy is relatable and an antihero. No one normal fantasizes about going this far to hurt others, even in revenge
@@dizzy4303 I actually...disagree. I think it's extremely common for people to have such extreme fantasies about getting revenge on someone who wronged you. They just don't actually do them. In other words, if I caught my husband of five years cheating on me with a much younger person, in my anger and grief I would absolutely concoct elaborate fantasies of making him pay, but I would do so with the understanding that I was not actually going to attempt anything beyond your average divorce settlement and that having these fantasies was just a coping mechanism. The reason Amy is relatable and also deranged is because she actually does the things that the darker parts of our psyches tell us to do. How many times have you ever had the thought "if I killed myself over this then they'd all be sorry!"? That's literally a part of Amy's plan.
Characters like Nick make women relate to Amy. NOT SIDE WITH HER, but relate to her. A lot of us have been stuck with our own versions of Nicks. To be involved with someone like that for 5 years can be maddening. And for someone as damaged as Amy, it turned out to be just as hard.
Eh that's still pretty pathetic. I mean you're basically admitting you were in a shit relationship and didn't have the spine to just end it. If it's maddening then it's your fault that it was.
@@R1ck_RyderNaaah this kind of relationships are hard to end because you want it to work and you keep waiting for the other to be better, to change until they don't.
@@R1ck_Ryder Even if she ended it she would still have lost, because after she put in tons more than him into their marriage while he put in the bare minimum, she would have lost more than him when she ended it. She gave up her money, her career, uprooted her whole life for this marriage, for him. She wanted some payment in return. To her, it was maddeningly unfair that she had to go through so much, and will probably have to go through more if she ends it, when things can be so much better if only her deadbeat husband just puts in the effort that he should, that he promised he would. I can't side with her while she is slashing people's throats, but I relate to her.
This narrator is advocating for unconditional love but I think it's incredibly important to know it is ok to fall out of love with someone including a spouse. This is especially the case if their behavior detriments you and or the relationship. People can and should be held accountable for their actions and you do not owe them your unconditional love as a spouse.
Marriage relationships are transactional. We want to believe it’s unconditional, but it’s not. We want to feel the same sort of love we had (or wished we had) from our parents in marriage, but that is not the case. You have to keep up your end, and hope the other person does too. From my studies, I’ve concluded marriages that last happen due to people being committed to the marriage, not necessarily because they love one another. Because love ebbs and flows, but commitment outlives the waves. So, I agree with the premise that unconditional love doesn’t exist in marriages. Our actions do have consequences, but hopefully we are able to resolve them peacefully.
The story tells Nick from a side that is the opposite of inspirational for a husband. We see it's not just that Amy's manipulations are forcing actions, but also Nick's initial struggle and then ultimate response is grounded in what Amy wants, not love... But a transaction she THINKS is love. Imagine if someone with true love and commitment married Amy, what an absolutely different story that would be. There are people that are married to psychopaths that aren't themselves, the selfless, patience, sacrifice, and endurance... Nick had none of those traits. His career, his reputation, his "life"... He refused to let them be destroyed. He himself didn't live up to that unconditional love he was asking for either. There's definitely an undercurrent of tragedy that in portraying this "perfect" marriage... They effective have locked themselves into the exact opposite. A marriage that is a social contract without the bonds of love at their core. Just imagine if Nick actually did commit to actually loving his wife despite her lies, letting the truth be truth. Could Amy possibly have become a better person and learned to understand what love really is in her own way? I really was struck by that tragic irony. That their love was conditional all along... And they're just giving into that fully because ultimately they loved other things more than each other. Their child is just another excuse for Nick... And Amy knows that Nick will use that "excuse" or any other to justify his decisions rather than face the truth and his mortality. If it became a choice between a choice between his child and himself? Do you think he'll actually choose the child? I'm not so sure. I'd like to believe he's capable of change but the story really has shown... He's not going to make the hard choices.
I know people like this. They are the most charming and likable people when they're out at social events, school, or workplaces, but go off the rails when behind closed doors. The best thing you can do is cut ties with them. Even if its a family member. The worst thing you can do is be passive and let them continue to mess with you and your wellbeing. Just bc someone is family, doesn't mean you have to stick around to deal with their mental issues.
Yeah, the way he was so quick to force her back into being the Amy he knew was very very controlling. He would change the subject everytime she talked about her "trauma", and started molding her into the woman he loved from the second they reunited.
This is one of those rare occasions when the movie is as good as the novel, but adding different details. Both absolutely brilliant. The book, of course, has a lot more details and more of Amy's internal monologue that illustrated how truly miserable she always was, it's scary how psychopathic and honest her thoughts were. I remember her describing the scene from her childhood when she didn't know what to do on a birthday party, she didn't understand why children screamed or laughed or played. It's like she was unable to feel joy or enjoy anything truly, like she was an empty shell of a person. And she wasn't like a bookish introvert ethier. It was a small detail, but it scared me the most. As Nick said, it's truly horrifying to live like that.
The idea of unconditional love can be horrible too. To what extent can we unconditionally love? What does "when the goings get rough" mean? That's what a lot of abused victims say to themselves to stay in the relationship. All love should be conditional, otherwise you will likely let a significant other hurt you continuously out of the mere fantasy of unconditional love. That shouldn't exist. You should have standards and conditions. Also, it's a bit odd you didn't mention her ex essentially holding her captive, so her killing him could be seen as self defense since he wasn't ever going to let her leave.
Unconditional love doesn’t mean having no boundaries, or acting like everything is acceptable. Love is a two-way street. If your partner treats you poorly, then staying with them and simply tolerating that behaviour is to not love yourself.
What you said here is Brilliant. That fear is what motivates Nick at the end of the film to be the best Husband he can be at the fear of what Amy will do to him. While Amy has always been behaving as the "Perfect" wife from the start because of the Gendered assumption that as a woman she has to put in more effort to make her relationship work. As the emotional labour of relationships in real life almost always falls on the woman so of course if the relationship fails the blame will fall on her. While Nick could just move on with a younger woman. The question then becomes why did it have it take Amy being a completely depraved murdering psychopath for Nick to invest as much energy in making the marriage work as Amy is just expected too.
No exactly. I was always confused about how seriously people took this truly ridiculous character. She’s a living fantasy born from the impotence many women feel when dealing with the gendered dynamics in a relationship (or at least this is the impression I get from discourse about people who like the character, I should mention that im a man). The many ways lopsided gendered expectations have cut down woman in relationships aren’t something you can simply just retaliate against. Amy as a manifestation of this frustration (hehe rhymes) is iconic because she directly confronts the mundane absurdity of the situation with a more visceral type of absurdity. I don’t disagree with anything in this video, but I think the choice to focus so earnestly on Amy as a narcissist obscures the more interesting meanings within the story.
There are more mature ways of dealing with relational issues than being a psychopath? This is not an argument that is valid. Being a psychopath means you got an issue with your brain. Bad relationships don’t turn people into something they’re not already for all genders.
Lopsided gendered expectations is hilarious when men basically have to do most of the work in the beginning of relationships and have to have more attractive qualities in general just to catch the eye of and fully retain a partner
Her husband could have an identical monologue about the expectations his wife had for him and how he had to mold himself into a perfect being for her to even be attracted to him. They both did the same thing to each other except she's a sociopath so she committed murder and tried to frame him. While he's a scumbag and cheated.
i haven't read the book, but in the movie nick comes across as a narcissist too. why he falls so easily for her performance is because, like narcissus, Amy is his mirror. he only chooses to see what he wants reflected back to him.
I'd once met a girl like Amy. Her life theories have impressed me since I hung out with her. She knows how to get what she wants; she stirs everyone's pot until all the sub-relationships around her get into a mess, and no one would question her but still lose themselves in her charm. She tried to fabricate evidence to make the police believe she was being domestic abused by her ex-husband. She tried to use the law to get full access to her ex-husband's property and tried to leave her ex nothing after the divorce, those she'd never paid a penny for. And she did all this when she was 19 years old. I was her best friend, and ended up separated ugly because I started my own company. I guess she doesn't like to see someone who always admired her try to do something she wanted to do, then she spread the most malicious rumors about me in our community, left me stuck in depression for 5 years, still in and out of it. But she is very charming and beautiful, like toxic but makes you high, and her ways of thinking were so eye-opening for me when I was 21-23 years old. Now I am a student of psychology. I know she is just a psychopath and a narcissistic person. (and we all Chinese)
Sometimes I wonder if living a facade, a living mirage, is worth the success. Everything around me supports economic and social progress. Being poor and alone seems dull and miserable in contrast. Sad world.
I don't think it's so black and white as that. Being true to yourself does not guarantee loneliness and misery. Just as putting up a facade won't guarantee success and status (but it could perhaps expedite the process). I guess it's a balance that each person has to decide for themselves. How far are you willing to fake it before you lose yourself. For some, the wealth or popularity might be worth it. I will say that there's a lot of integrity to holding fast to truth and being genuine. Relationships require trust to thrive; it's pretty hard to trust someone when you don't even know the true "them".
This is one of my top 5 favourite books ever! You really made an amazing observation that Nick starts behaving like the ideal husband only because he is afraid of her. One thing that really stands out to me in this story is that none of the main characters are good people. Amy, her parents, Nick, his sister; they are all different types of crappy people. This list also includes Desi. While I do agree that he didn't deserve to have his neck slit open and framed for rape; he was an awful, creepy and controlling person who also wanted a fabricated version of Amy which was eerily similar to his mother (ew).
I was married to someone similar. Not as exaggerated of course, but she’s one way at home and a totally different person in public. It’s scary. Majority of people who meet her have an erroneous idea of what she’s really like. She has a tendency to try to make herself look good while making me look bad. The marriage lasted less than a year.
I'm soo happy to see this video in my feed. This is a film I repeatedly come back to, because it so perfectly encapsulates our generations dilemma , ie form v content, image v authenticity. I love the concept that if u desperately seek to be seen as a victim u will bring the true experience upon yourself, ie Amys privilege means she loved to flirt with victimhood, having never experienced true terror or pain in her life, but when it came down to surviving reality, she could never hack surviving as a poor individual without status or money or a man. Her entitlement and fury at her own failures really speaks to many of our worlds problems today. Thanks for this 🎉
True story. When I first saw Gone Girl, I thought it was based on a true story. I was amazed how much of a mastermind this psychopath was. I still embarrassedly laugh at myself over this.
I think that’s a credit to Flynn for writing such real, recognisable characters (and those involved in the film for adapting it in such a faithful way). I’ve always maintained Gone Girl is the best book to film adaptation I’ve ever seen. It’s the only time I’ve seen a movie be exactly what I pictured in my head when I read the book. Such a subjective thing to capture, but I think it’s because of Flynn’s book, and her involvement in the film.
"Love is a choice" is another one of those truths that our culture does not want to acknowledge, but is becoming increasingly harder to disregard when the ability to choose is made readily available and more transparent.
I love this movie as it showed a really smart girl lead but of course what she did should never be condoned nor do I think most people who like the character actually think what she did was justified either. I just think most people like how smart and conniving she was portrayed and the man was the one who was manipulated. Men in society nowadays seem to be the manipulators so it was nice to see a girl who was that way
I agree. It's crazy how looking at this story while I don't agree with her actions, I do think she took things extremely way too far in what she did or how she did it. Men get away with being manipulative and conniving and all of those things all the time so yes it was nice seeing the ball in our court for once. Again not saying she was right in anything that she did but
you skipped movie classes from late 80s movies to modern chick-flicks like Mean Girls if you think this is the first time a girl has been portrayed as conniving "Men in society nowadays seem to be the manipulators" depends what media you consume, and in my personal experience as a girl I've always been manipulated by other girls, whereas men just leave me alone if I'm not counting family members
This essay was excellent. I don't know if you'll see this comment, but I hope you do so I can encourage you. When you got to the part about the two cups, I started thinking to myself, "Wait, this guy is using language about relationships that line up with scripture, what the heck?" And then the next line was, "With Jesus, my cup overflows." Then I was thinking, "Oh dang, this guy is a Christian!" That was so refreshing to me, since you hardly run into that on youtube unless you're looking for it. And all of the observations about unconditional love after that point were so solid and well put. Even without those factors, it was a well written video essay that I found engaging from start to finish. I hope you keep doing this, and keep bringing in God even if people aren't always receptive to it.
I don't think shes an admirable character, but damn it if she aint relatable. All humans slightly alter their behavior to fit in with those around us, its just that she didnt have consistent external validation that shes a worthy human, outside of her various personas, and especially if she doesn't accomplish "x, y, z", so she holds an enormous amount of admiration for these "roles" and archetypes. She sees the real value society holds for rhe artifice and plays to that hand very well. I think the part that gets a lot of us is that we all had a part that commiserated with her really hard, up to a point. I think those few chapters were my favorite. Seeing all the places I initially agreed with her, then the realization of all the sublte manipulations and could see how easily i could have done some of those things - again, up to a point - in order to inspire the "best" (in our opinion) in our partnerships and relationships
i’ll always love her. i was raised and abused by narcissists my entire life. she helped me stop myself from trying to be the “cool girl” and simply be myself, i don’t let people hurt me anymore and i don’t see anything wrong with that. people love and worship the wolf of wall street the same way i’ll love gone girl
i was so confused when Amy was in the getaway, ruining her hair, eating like a hobo and not caring for her figure. Then I realize, she was not he perfect pretty woman she portrayed to be Nicks' wife. That was not the real her. in fact, nothing is sure about the real her. Just that she's cold, calculating manipulative. She doesn't care about maintaining the cool girl look.
I’ve always maintained that the first 3 months of any relationship are who two people want to be seen as. This isn’t NECESSARILY a bad thing. There are levels of trust that people go through into letting people into their lives to see the mess behind the nice. Beware of anyone who wants to go too far too fast or seems too good to be true. I think what the author of this synopsis about Amy and the ideal “cool girl” trope is that it was in large part created by MALE Hollywood writers. There are girls who like Star Wars, fixing cars, watching sports, etc… but they may not look like Megan Fox.They could but she’s probably going to have some flaws& baggage too like everyone else. Some girls and women also fell for this trope trying so hard to be who men thought they should be without really exploring what they truly want. Don’t do that women! The perfect girl doesn’t exist except inside the mind of men. Plus, the Ben Affleck character is indicative of the problems that most men suffer from in today’s society. He doesn’t really love anyone but himself. Most studies today show that men fall in love faster ( based on appearance) and also fall out of love faster and move on faster. What does that tell you? Also, men are 6 TIMES more likely to leave a partner with a serious illness! Ben Affleck’s character is typical. He skates through life on shallow superficial charm only committed as long as it doesn’t inconvenience him too much. Even if Amy wasn’t the monster that she clearly is he’d probably cheat or leave as soon as things weren’t fun or easy anymore. We pity him by the end of the movie stuck with a sociopath but honestly…does he deserve better? I don’t know I don’t think anyone deserves to be with a person like Amy but at least the two of them won’t ruin two other peoples lives.
Also, single Mothers actually do less housework than married women. Single men are experiencing a loneliness epidemic now and it’s because of the reasons I mentioned along with a plethora of other vastly more disturbing reasons. Women have finally woken up and interestingly enough this movie helped them along that journey. With everything I’ve mentioned WHY would we desire a relationship with a man? We’ve lost respect and have not been appreciated. When respect is lost and you start seeing the motivations behind the attention men give you…what’s left? You don’t desire what you don’t respect.
In the movie yes. To some extend almost everyone puts their best foot forward in the beginning. That’s the way relationships go. But, Amy is a different story. Amy is narcissistic and sees life or her own personality as a performance like most narcs, sociopaths, and psychopaths. @@MarieTheOstrich
When I first saw this movie I stated aloud that this is the only comparable female counterpart in all of film to Dr. Hannibal Lecter. At least comparable. Lecter is by far my favorite villain of all time so my wife took notice. One thing that makes this movie fascinating is the sickening way our society reacted to it. Even though Amy should be clearly despised, especially by women- in fact I’ve heard from several people all female who tend to excuse her disgusting character. I think that was one of the most fascinating things about this movie.
What I really think it is, like someone else stated, people who are not psychopaths do not have the emotional energy to keep up a plan that long. Women (especially those who have been cheated on) resonate with the fact that she took that hurt and hurt him back. Was it right? Absolutely not. Was her actions visceral and extreme? Definitely, but to be able to calculate and connive until your plan is together to hurt the person who hurt you is truly a feeling that a lot of women long for towards men who hurt them but in reality there is very little revenge, satisfaction or closure. It’s a messed up part of the world and Amy’s character should 100% be in jail, but it is no secret why women can pick parts of her story that they can resonate with without idolizing or excusing her actions.
@@kernaishaxoxo great response! Thank you. I guess my point was that Hannibal Lecter was rightly seen in society in the movie and in real life by audiences as a monster. Amy however was seen in the movie as more of a kind of hero for scorned women. Also I heard many women in real life outright excuse her actions and blame the man. Almost as if to say, “well he’s listening now isn’t he?!” Also, to say that nick cheated on her and hurt her is excusing her actions in a way. She lied to him from the moment they met. He never really knew who she was until he realized that she set this whole thing up. I agree that he is selfish lazy and indolent but she didn’t even really feel anything- she’s a sociopath. Her perception of being “hurt” is not what you or I would experience. She deserves no understanding. What you said about Amy being hurt makes about as much sense to me as if I were to say that Hannibal Lecter deserved sympathy for the oppression he experienced as a carnivore.
@@MsGavboI can only speak for myself but as a woman I found myself rooting for Michael Douglas's character in "A Perfect Murder"(great movie if you haven't seen it). It's very similar to GG; sociopath husband finds out his wife is having an affair and plans the perfect murder that he comes really close to fulfilling. Also one of my favorite movies "Dial M for Murder" same plot scorned husband plans the perfect murder of his wife and nearly gets away with it. I always thought it was strange to root for the bad guys in these movies but I think it goes to show it's not so much a gender thing as empathizing with a scorned spouse even as I'm aware they are doing evil. Being cheated on is one of the worst feelings in the world for either sex and movies allow a way for us to relate and explore, if only briefly and superficially, our darker human instincts.
But I've always wondered, what does the narcissist get out of such extensive work? Isn't the point for them to get what they want? If they spend their entire lives playing a character for someone else, what did they get to enjoy? That sounds much more like subservience. Are they secretly gratified that they are putting one over on somebody? It has always seemed to me that this media character is a kind of boogeyman. Some scary archetype that you might get lured in by. Like the stalker who walks after you really slow, it is entirely focused on you, to scare you and such. It doesn't have any motivations or pay off of its own. I think actual narcissists are a lot less enchanting and more boring. They tend to be one-note and keep harping on their to-do list until you comply or escape.
Maybe, but I spent 2 years dating a narcissist I found absolutely enchanting, and who everyone else around me also fell for. In the end he was nothing like the person he made us believe he was; he became completely unhinged. These people aren’t happy, they only want control
I think this is somewhat sage. i struggle with narcisisstic issues, and its like clawing my way out of a paper bag trying to be a social creature. Sometimes I feel ready but something spiritual will tip my scales. Sometimes I feel ready but I want that gratification you speak of too much and trade in a true socialable exchange for being like the cat that got the cream and can't stop licking itself, even its its hella fragile, just a slight overpowering in terms of priorities. ive been told im not a narcissist because i can care for others but i don't have responsibilities without a sense of control and i'm just a touch too precarcious to be fit for a normal seat in society until i overcome this. it's pretty tedious to be me, so i go to great extremes to be creative in my mind, but it could be in case anyone's looking inside me. if i knew i was alone, i'd just want to know what i honetly think about things, what is yay and what is nay and how do to nice and naughty and rest and restlessness while maintaining a conceptual or integral sense of being a 'me'
oh and sometimes i want that gratification of pulling something over someone, not to trick them but to hold the reigns or be loved excitedly over seen truly and acknowledged and patiently warmed up to, but i guilt myself out of trying because i feel like people know my crimes or are acrimonious and then i think they are unideal for being what i imagine is acrimonious and then they loathe my presence i take it.
This comment should be pinned at the top, absolutely true! They are also the same people who wonder why they have such a poor dating history because they can’t see they choose the same toxic partners time after time.
@@katnip9280 Not taking any responsibility for being manipulated by others is even lamer. How can anyone learn from their mistakes if they don't admit to themselves that they made mistakes?
The real issue with her is that although Nick has a twin, Amy's parents have successfully made their own daughter a doppelganger. Perfect Amy by proxy about looking for a mirror that shows all of real Amy's micro imperfections, also her parents kind of stole her life and got rich because of it and when Nick steps up to do the same (in Amy's mind, stealing her life and money and cheating on her) is the trigger button. I don’t believe she is a narcissist, but rather a psychopath with the doppelganger or her “doubly perfect literary version, which highlights all of her personal flaws” of not being The Perfect Amy being the final set off.
I remember getting my friends to watch this and none of them knew the twist and it was amazing watching them first wondering why I got them to watch a “simple” wife murder and seeing their faces when it hits them it was a amazing moment
Every marriage takes a lot of effort from both end no matter what, but if the base of the marriage is not real, it’s never going to make either party happy. Yes, it is terrible Amy’s husband cheats and in result, she got hurt but he also doesn’t love her, why does she torture herself with the marriage that’s already broken?
i think its more that all of the traits amy dunne has are lauded and admired in male protagonists: but in her, the male audience just sees her as “a psychopath”
Ironic how men *worship* the men of "Scarface," "American Psycho," and "Fight Club" by hanging images of these idols on their empty white walls, but Amy Elliot-Dunne, with many of the same characteristics as the aforementioned male gods, is viewed as an evil succubus who must be destroyed and abandoned.
@@jujubean8870lmao you're delusional. These movies CLEARLY frame those men as crazy or evil. Just because some dipshits on the internet get the wrong impression doesn't mean we all worship them. That's just you projecting
@@jujubean8870I didn't see the others but fight club seemed to have a completely different message to me. More like to not fall for charismatic narcissists. They're cool handsome and they seem to get everything money can't buy. They can create a cult following but in the end it just leads to disaster
@@jujubean8870It's amazing how you genuinely believe men "worship" any of those characters. If anything, you're just projecting your insecurities onto men to make yourself feel better. Even the way you phrased "empty white walls", it just gives insight to how your worldview is dictated by your insecurities
@@jujubean8870 No, but personally as a man, movies like that are genuinely the only way I can feel a sense of any type of connection and being able to be expressive of how I really feel. Worship though? Guess it depends on your definition of worship. Also, yes I do shame some women for being overly passionate over characters such as this because I've actually met women who will literally embrace the characteristic traits of thing's they hear and see, whether they really understand or not. Like my mother used to be type of woman to see a narcissistic, sadistic, evil mother in a film, and one day decided to sort of use that same energy because in her mind it became a useful tool to children such as me who were labeled "brats."
Please make more analysis videos like this one! This was brilliant! Why did you change the title? It was 'Narcissistic Facades' before and I feel like that fits best because there's this essence of us projecting the fantasy of perfection onto the other, the loved one. Like Narcissus, transfixed into destruction by the delirious delusions his own reflection. Do we go into job interviews expecting to bare our souls and still be hired for the job? No. To varying degrees, we attempt to project this idealized version of ourselves. And this is ever so pronounced in today's dating world, where everyone is branding and commodifying themselves into these packable checkmark box of an individual. What I love about this commentary is how much it highlights the ubiquitous of the problems of how we look at love. How the idea of unconditional love, loving someone as they are, with ALL their flaws...how THAT idea is something that goes against modernity. In today's capitalistic society it's all about leveraging and hedging your bets and constantly looking out for a better deal as to maximize "happiness" a word, concept rather, that gets conflated for hedonistic simple pleasures of fulfilling convenient desires, instead of looking at happiness as an active process of reaching some sort of equanimity. And what's even more interesting by the end of the story Amy and Nick actually start to become the composite for what true love in marriage actually is. By the end of it all they start to go back to performing but through this performance the real thing is forged. Nick is completely tied to her. He can never leave and he doesn't want to, he's never been better than when he was performing too. He will never find anyone who will do for him what she did and now they share a child together. In the end she says "I would never ever hurt you Nick" and I believe her. EVEN THE PLAN WAS FOR HER TO KILL HERSELF, NOT THE OTHER WAY AROUND. She's someone who would kill 1,000 people without batting an eyelash to protect her family. It kinda reminds me of the "Last of Us" And as long as Nick agrees to play his part and perform, she WILL perform her role and be what he desire. And we all know through her parents that this is HOW she has learned to even show her love. But it's all real. That's what's so brilliant. At the end of the day, this whole ordeal brought them even closer together, even his sister has no bearing on the fortitude of their marriage. I could go on and on.
awesome! i can’t wait for more analysis videos from you. your channel is new but the quality is fantastic. also i wanna say, i don’t think we should not be putting amy & nick as the ideal couple, they are horrible…it’s more that if they do stay together like it seems they have by the end of the book - they will die being together and married while others who haven’t even had to deal with nearly anything as dramatic as what happened here will divorce and part ways eventually, meaning that their marriage and love endured and lasted past the other “healthy” relationships that just couldn’t stick it out.
I disagree. In the book, I remember she's gleeful about Nick getting gang-raped in prison by the other inmates and she has nothing but contempt for him. I even recall her last words are about how she doesn't like how he's getting out of her control again. She's not someone who would do anything for her family. She even tells Desi that her father sexually abused her to gain sympathy from him. She simply needs Nick, as a tool. Once he's not useful, she'll murder him.
Love your thoughts on this!! It's refreshing to see people willing to explore socially aberrant characters without trying to place moral judgements, especially symbolic characters like these!
How can it be “real” and genuine though. Most abusers have love and abuse mixed up, and for some that’s how they show love or think love is. it’s still wrong. It’s still not “real” love. And most importantly it can never be love. What it really is, is abuse, a facade of love, a delusion. Anything can be labeled “love” that doesn’t make it so, its abuse labeled “love”. I think another reason they can never love each other is because he will never be seen by her since she projects on to him what character she wants him to be instead of loving him for who he is and she will never be seen for who she is because she will never let another person see her for who she truly is. He wants to be seen and she won’t let anyone see her. And it’s not a “with the right person she’ll let herself be seen”, it’s not about the other person, it’s about giving up their own fake reality to be vulnerable in truth. That’s why the fight so hard to keep the act up control and manipulate others to keep their false reality going anything to not be real, almost as if being real feels wrong to them like water to rabies. Narcissists have cognitive empathy and cognitive vulnerability, but they will never ever be truly vulnerable because to do so means their carefully crafted delusional world comes crumbling down to reveal REALITY something they can’t live in. I also think she would never kill herself most narcissistic individuals use this as just another way to control someone especially if she would be that desperate to regain back control. Or alternatively, she would have disappeared with no intention of going back, a suicide of the character she is playing, then she’d just create a new one so on. Their marriage is a tragedy and should treated as a cautionary tale.
Some actors have a role of a lifetime as the pinnacle of their career, this is that role for Pike. So happy after years being stuck in the supporting role and getting typecast, her first leading role here and she truly knocked it outta the park. I'm pretty sure the world wasn't ready how good of a villain role Pike was going to be because of her sweet innocent image
Pike's performance is amazing. I saw this film when it first came out and was impressed beyond words. But having viewed it again, recently, and (with appreciation!) also viewed Soder's excellent analysis of the character, I'm doubly impressed. Great acting. Great analysis.
Pike's casting is what makes the movie extremely refreshing to me. Instead of casting actress that we obviously know they could nail this role like Charlize Theron, Nicole Kidman or maybe Emily Blunt, Rosamund Pike was like a weird option at first because this was her first leading role and it's hard to imagine her playing a psycho convincingly due to her sweet image. Gone Girl was a risky against type role for her and it was surprising to a lot of people that the person who played Jane Bennet in Pride & Prejudice can play a psycho very well
I forgot about the multiple choice part of Amazing Amy & her Personality Quiz job. Great video, and I do appreciate that you read the book! It is so rare that men read women writers esp when it features a women as a major character.
I think this story is really well written. Both characters are extremely hateable and likeable in their own ways. But you can see Amy's character constricting around her partner to extreme lengths after creating a premise that is a common experience becoming more and more deranged throughout the story. I think thats what makes it so disturbing.
i'm 8 minutes in and i have to leave it and finish the video after my classes but DAMN, I REALLY DO NOT WANT TO STAND UP FROM THIS CHAIR. The narration, and the music used on the video really captivates ur attentio, really well crafted
A weird repetitive comment I keep seeing is that Nick actually fell for Amy again and "wanted" to stay. He didn't. Amy felt she had to threaten Nick with an anti-freeze vomit jar and a forced pregnancy to blackmail him into playing 'happy house husband' so that he wouldn't expose her lies.
Excellent video essay. your interpretation of Amy (and her elter ago) is spot on. she is one of the best fictional psycopaths out there and you definitely did her justice, well done!
I grew up with a sociopath mother. Great actress, great manipulator, always playing the victim to distract people from what she is actually doing. I was the scapegoat, tiny disabled female, so I had endure her cruelty while my brothers were her bfs so they could do whatever they wanted. If my alpha brother wanted to shoot people with his bb gun, get suspended for beating up nerds and choking girls, and destroy the house with his HS parties my dad was not allowed to punish him. My dad is my mother's absolute thrall, he cannot think for himself at all, it's actually unnerving. The power of mind control she wields over people is scary to me. I honestly think some people are possessed by demons, I would see them manifest in my mom, her eyes would bulge and she'd undulate like a snake while saying to me, "you think you are so much better than me, don't you." It would paralyze me with terror. At times she did not look human.
If you pretend to be someone you're not just to get a man you will want revenge on him if he cheats on you or breaks up with you after all the personal sacrifices you made for him to try to be with him that you would not have done had you remained single. But if you stay true to yourself and remain authentic and a man cheats or leaves you, all you will think is, "Well he liked me for who I was at first so either he wasn't honest about liking me so good riddence or he is just a selfish prick and so it's his loss if he f*cks up or walks away. Not my problem.
Reminder; Jennifer Gardner and her children were cheated on by Ben Affleck. For "J-Lo" . Funny coincidence, this role he's played a couple years before.
Ive been reading and studying psychology and manipulation for a while, through out the entire movie i was impressed by Amy's intelligence and found myself pausing to think "she can go in so many directions with this", disturbingly enough i was in awe, but in the end when Nick had to stay in the house with her, i became paralysed with fear, she was in complete control and was Siphoning his life essence away, just the bare sight of her standing in the kitchen or looking into the camera in the end made me turn away from the screen in fear, in those eyes you could see that she was capable of ANYTHING.
Shuuuu!! How many couples try 'control' their partner in order to carefully craft a certain image to world.....usually an image of perfection, such so, that when the other partner deviates from this image it causes tension and elevates the toxicity. Instead of working through questions of why we need society to see us in a certain light or why we are placing our happiness in someone else's hands, we just find it easier to try curate and control our public perception.
I was married to an Amy Elliot Dunne. Absolute nightmare… Can’t be happier I recognised the signs early and got out as quickly as I did with no shared offspring
“With Jesus, my cup overflows.” Well that came out of left fucking field. I can’t tell if it was genuine or a joke, but I’m going to pretend it’s the latter.
A lot of people have referenced this point. From my perspective, it’s a perfectly logical progression (when talking about human sources of fulfillment) to bring it back to God, as He is the only one that can provide lasting joy and peace. To those seeking fulfillment in life apart from God, I understand how the comment may come across as jarring or “out of left field”, but in my life, God is directly intertwined with the conversation. To expel points of religion would be to errantly represent my worldview.
@@sder I’m always fascinated, and frankly a little impressed with the creativity, at the countless ways y’all can express both your supposed moral/ethical superiority & our “absence” of it. The tone is typically like yours- this surface-level non offensive language, but the heart of the message is so judgmental & talks about non-Christians as total clods; idiots bumbling around in the dark entirely unaware of true purpose & meaning of life. We have meaning & purpose; it’s just not the same as yours. Religion- which you mentioned specifically; not spirituality or faith, but religion- is letting someone else do the difficult work of evaluating what I believe & altering said beliefs as my understanding grows vs being handed a list of what I believe from a group that has benefited from controlling others for centuries. From my perspective, all meaning is created- none inherent to this earth. To me, that means we all personally construct meaning in relation to others, events, and concepts & do so on an individual level. Some people look to others for the “answers” and have that meaning filled in by someone else who’s already created it, and some people sit in the challenging, uncomfortable uncertainty & beauty that is creation & develop a deeply personal, nuanced & entirely unique understanding of this reality. Congratulations, though. I’ve occasionally looked at that path in which you travel with a twinge of envy- it seems like it would be the much more comfortable ride to believe I knew the answers to everything & to believe with certainty I had a grasp on what “is” in such a tangible, fairytale-like form.
Some people believe. Be a tolerant adult and get over yourself. I believe as well and appreciated his appeal to faith and Jesus as a perfect form of love because faith teaches us love isn't a feeling or an emotion but a choice like God makes a choice to love us.
@user-rv9hp6bo3y I'm cool with people believing. I'm not cool with people talking about Jesus during an unrelated subject, especially when it comes with the not so subtle insinuation that "my glass" is/will become empty cuz I don't believe in Jesus. Feels like a little bit of both an insult and an act of adoctrination. Even worse that I was tricked into watching it while I enjoying a video essay about a movie I found interesting.
LOVED the random segway about marriage. could have watched a whole video on that tbh. lately i've been thinking about how the BEST movies all have love stories in them, and that whenever a sequel or remake is shitty and underbaked, they've also watered down or straight removed the romance element from it. (see: chaos walking, indiana jones, die hard, terminator) desperately want to see more romance / genuine love relationships in movies again, but it's like it died with the mid budget film
I read the book I think right before the movie came out. The movie came out the year I met my husband. I know that I certainly have issues because I'm entralled by Amy and even though I don't condone her actions, a part of me respects and understands it. Years later and my opinion has not changed 😅
Ben Affleck really understood the scary side of the story, which is that almost every couple is susceptible to go downhill in the same way that Nick and Amy did. It's not just about who they are, they faced very difficult challenges: relatives passing away, recession, losing their jobs, moving to a different state. They truly wanted to present the best version of themselves to the other, for a while. You get to know a person's colors when hit by adversity, not when everything is fine. But there's only so much that anyone can handle before the negative side of them comes out, and this new different picture of them which is perceived as a lack of honesty made them both feel cheated. On a different note, the movie reminds me of that Canadian guy who actually "finished" his wife and daughters to be with another woman and he tried to fake it as his wife just running away with the kids out of nowhere.
I've been looking for someone's comment on this. It took me right out of the video. It was so out of place I immediately stopped the video to see if anyone else was thrown off too
You are so good at this! This is definitely what you should be doing. One of the most well-thought-out analysis I’ve heard of a movie. Bravo👏 Keep it up. There are so many movies that I would love to hear you critique/analyze. You deserve millions of followers.
I don’t feel bad for anyone who has cheated on their partner not even in the slightest. Do you deserve to be unalived? No, but anything else you brought it on yourself.
Every actor need a role of a lifetime, Amy Dunne is that role for Rosamund Pike. After years being typecast, it's brilliant how she finally found a movie where she could flex her acting range even more
I agree that love is a choice. Love is action, not just a feeling. I’ve been married for 16 years now and it’s been hard but it’s also been very rewarding. It’s taken a lot of intentional work and communication but even through great disappointment love can grow with time, and love can grow with the necessary incremental personal development and selflessness.
You know, I never truly thought about how much of an impact the "Amazing Amy" books had on Amy. Sure, I realized that it affected her on the surface level but I didn't conceptualize how deeply it impacted every aspect of her life.
4:33 also interesting that she focuses mainly on the “most socially humiliating way possible” because the loss of one’s public image is what she perceives as the worst situation imaginable. She doesn’t care what’s real - if she can convince other people of it then it may as well be the truth. If she ever lost control of the narrative of her own perfection that’s almost worse than death. Correction: it IS worse than death, she was fully going to kill herself in order to complete nicks ruination and protect her image so no one could ever speak ill of her - because she was a pregnant martyr, murdered by her cheating abusive husband, and also because there’d be almost no one left who knew how twisted and calculated she really was.
I was watching this at 3 in the morning totally mesmerised by the analysis, I didnt expect it to turn into a message faith and why faith is essential to love but it did and it was wonderful. Thanks for sharing this. 🙏
@@sder I've seen some comments that have mocked you for including your faith in this but I very much appreciated it because I understand exactly where you were coming from. I hope in future you won't be afraid to keep professing how your faith helps you understand things and even when people disagree remember that there are people in your audience who understand appreciate it. God bless 🙏
26:08 I think it's important to acknowledge that she DOES apply some introspection, and changes herself (*not* just those around her), but not in a healthy way. It's inherently BECAUSE she's narcissistic, and perfectly moulds herself into whatever the situation demands, that she expects that in the people in her life to do so as well. If you can't unconditionally love yourself, how could you possibly extend that to others?
In the book, its clear that they are both messed up. Amy is a complete psychopath, but is also very impressive.. while Nick is more normal, both in his flaws and his ability. Both narcissists. Really interesting dynamic.
I agree with your take. I read it as they are both narcissistic albeit different types of narcissism. Both have zero self awareness of that fact and thinks themselves the perpetual victim.
One seems far more deadly and harmful. Just saying
@burtan2000 oh absolutely!
People can be messed up/toxic without being narcissists
I agree, Nick doesn't strike me as narcissistic. He comes off more as an immature, douche with poor character.@@mywingsareyours
Amy has a dysfunctional twin relationship as she is constantly put into competition with "Amazing Amy". The author contrasts this with a true, loving twin relationship between Nick and Margo - they love each other, no matter what. They can at least draw on their love for each other, whereas Amy has almost a parasitic twin who is draining life energy away from her.
amazing take!
Oh my gosh, how succinctly and astonishingly accurate!
Speaking as the tiny twin this resonates deeply
listening and reading amy’s resentment to amazing amy and the Hopes (all the miscarried and stillborn daughters of her mother) makes your take soooo valid. I never realized this.
Now Amy has become Nick's parasite.
The cool girl monologue changed my brain chemistry permanently. A wrong person can be right.
I love that monologue, but you can't miss the nuance in it (and I'm not saying you did! Just wanna talk about it).
Amy wasn't forced into being a cool girl by Nick. She's been made into this by her parents and the pressures put on women by society, sure, but in the long run she *chose* to become Cool Amy.
She chooses to give into these pressures and put on façades.
@@luckas221a that's a very interesting take. I agree in the sense that she choose to be "cool girl", but imo that was to win Ben over. Once she stopped being "cool girl", he lost interest in her and went to find another younger and hotter "cool girl". But yeah, her parents definitely messed her up.
@@luckas221a But enough men know it's an act and don't care. They want women to be an extension of themselves. Society grooms women into this role and indoctrination is difficult to get rid off. If women stopped giving a shit then billion dollar industries would collapse and these industries know what to prey on.
@@luckas221ai mean in the time frame you can see she’s forced into these position so…😭
@@femaleskater1185 What I mean is that she could have rejected all that. Been something else. But her desire for approval made her force herself into that mold!
Rosamund Pike plays these characters so well she herself is starting to freak me out lol.
lol
She probably has such elements in her also.Good directors usually cast actors that have similarities with the character like the case of Bryan Cranston and Walter White.
@@kokomanationI like acting in amateur Theater groups, which has been an interesting exercise in getting to know myself. I like playing the villains, the crueler the better. For me, this is a role that I would never play in real life, but that can be cathartic to act as in a setting where the curtains can fall, and the consequences stay on stage. If my character liked someone, that person is now alive again, backstage with me. If she tormented and hurt someone, that person is unscathed and happy now. Nobody suffers once the curtain has fallen, everything is still okay. But I could still express deep anger, deep resentment, etc. I could express an overblown view of frustration in life in a way that didn’t hurt anyone.
this is such an immature read on how acting works - she's just highly skilled at her craft, not a psychopath because she's a good actress@@kokomanation
And it was refereshing to see her being cast against type since previously she has been typecast for the same role over and over again that made her super underrated. Some actors have a role of a lifetime, Amy Dunne is that type of role for Pike
It's not easy to write the intricacies of a narcissist but Gillian Flynn did it impeccably!
agreed
Such a talented writer.
succession is also an excellent example of narcissists written well and accurately!
almost too well...
@@EmiliaRuiz-hr2mi kinda, npd and narcissists are hard to understand. so complex
I feel like the reason many woman relate to or like the character is revenge fantasy.
A character like Nick that is lazy, inconsiderate, inconsistent, and a cheater is very reminiscent of a lot of resentful marriages and these men are not good men. She could do what many unhappy marriages cannot, force your uncaring partner to care about you. Manchild types drain your life force. Obviously, she is a villain, but I fully understand women who are interested in the character.
Love how you typically lay much of the blame at the man's door. That's right: Women are always the victims, in reality, and it's because of MEN that turns some into murderous psychopaths. If it weren't for Nick, Amy would be the sweet, kind, good woman she actually is. It's like you watched this excellent analytical review of the film and either couldn't understand what the host said, or chose to ignore everything the host said, because it's not convenient to think that women can also be "inconsiderate, inconsistent, and a cheater." Noooo, that would ruin the Woman as Forever Victim trope. Seriously! *Facepalm*
@@klientproby but everything she said is true nick is a terrible husband. no where did she say amy was a victom though
@@klientprobymen being shitty in marriage isn’t new and happens a lot so obviously a lot of women are gonna relate. We know amy is crazy lol but the same way men idolize villains like American psycho, women find Amy iconic
@@klientprobyNick is a terrible husband lol, did you miss that point
I agree
I just finished reading the book and this is exactly what I need!! The ending part is what really got me thinking. It goes:
“My gosh, Nick, why are you so wonderful to me?”
He was supposed to say: You deserve it. I love you.
But he said, “Because I feel sorry for you.”
“Why?”
“Because every morning you have to wake up and be you.”
Knowing that Amy has a Personality Disorder, Nick saying this to Amy is a violation ahahaha
The dialogue in the book is superior in my opinion
@@sderAgreed, it provides greater insight into Nick and Amy. I'm a fan of your content, and this video is excellent!!
U rlly thought he ate
@@Zombina638u rlly thought U ate
@@miyubeilschmidt5351 i did. U got a problem or u gon whine like a baby on twt?🤷🏽♀️
One of the things that still sticks with me and scares me a year after watching the movie and reading the book is the fact that Amy can turn her kid against Nick or kill them both or manipulate them if she feels the need to or has the whim to. It's just frightening.
Welcome to 2023. 😆
Medea
🙄@@MaleusMaleficarum
Girlboss
@@ema-db9riboss for killing your kid💀💀
That’s why I think this story is engaging. Because people CAN sympathize with Amy, especially women. Nick is selfish and immature. But Amy is a total psychopath. She’s more interesting because some of her reasons for being angry at Nick are valid, but she would have done this to him even if he was a good guy.
i have zero sympathy for her shes a monster
I kind of disagree. Amy is only sympathetic from the narrative she herself constructs to set him up. Nick is selfish in that he uprooted her and moved so he could help his parents, but she herself does a similar thing by giving them her money. They have REAL everyday normal marital issues that she escalates into trying to get her husband killed. Like yeah sure an affair is bad but from a narrative perspective she becomes someone her husband didn't sign for.
That's kind of the point, even from her perspective, that all of this is normal boring bullshit neither of them signed up for. She ultimately blames this on Nick, but never addresses how she herself failed to fix things or prevent these issues. The thing that makes her insane is the lengths and determination she went to to realize her escape from it.
In the end Nick is molded into something she finds worthy of herself, but that's only because he was fighting for his life. He himself seems to enjoy who he has become and the future he has of matching wits with her.
It really doesn't matter who it was. If you weren't providing what she wanted from you she would have axed you from her life like this, just for fun. We see that in how she handled her exs and her friend. It's amazing that the book doesn't hint that she plans to take revenge on the pair that robbed her while she was hiding out, because no matter how long it took she would do that.
Its almost like psychopaths are people too
@@donttalktomebye just like Ted Bundy!!!
I disagree, if he played his "part" then he would have been okay, what really seal his coffin was cheating
There are people who actually still defend her characters actions because of "misogyny". Did they forget that she has a history of setting her previous boyfriends up, lying, pretending to be someone else, and even planned on killing herself just to get back at him for cheating and being lazy.
All women are immune to criticism and cannot be judged on any moral criterion (unless they're politically inconvenient to feminism).
The feminist ideology makes it a point to set up the rationalization for this sexist approach and to justify treating men and boys as inferior mortals and treating women and girls as blameless victim class.
Women are not to be held accountable for their crimes, in keeping with traditional gynocentric attitude which - surprisingly - feminism, which claims to smash tradition and traditional gender roles, but upholds and cements sexist attitudes when they support the feminist female-supremacist agenda.
This elevation of women to the effective status of royalty or even worshipped deity is done to hook women up on all the female ego-masturbation and cause them to support feminism, so feminist bureaucrats can exploit those women and draw from women's considerable social power and their (traditional) status as imparters of morality and values.
In short, feminism is a scam and a giant extortion racket.
i’m still on her side
@@steph.li3 find God my child
People idolize Patrick Bateman and fight club (mainly guys). No one bats a eye because it’s soooo sigma and alpha male. But when women like female villains and enjoy their character it’s wrong.
@@darkpastell those are dumb people too
Amy and Nick are both sociopaths, one only commits murders but they are both still exactly like each other, hence the attraction. They both lied to attract one another then realised they resent each other for exactly the same thing ...they are a mirror image of one another.
good insight
How is nick a psychopath or narcissist?
@@RandomPerson28337 I agree. @abbiealverez2960 has terrible insight and is confused about what the actual psychological labels / diagnoses mean are versus disliking a person (character) who has done things they don't like or maybe doesn't live up to expectations. Nick was a guy who came off as valueable to Amazing Amy because he was charmismastic, and used his slight of hand with effort early on. When it came down to his relationship with Amy steady state, it wasn't anywhere close to that and their relationship got strained. At this point no one has done anything remotely blameworthy outside of themselves. Amy chose the wrong dude, Nick chose to be, you could say "tricked" a woman he couldn't satisfy to be with him. Then he cheated; so yeah, he committed the first offense to someone other than himself. But the motivation to cheat is laid out and straight forward. Amy could have ended the relationship, or call it out and work on it which is what any normal person would do. But her character defect/diagnoses (narcissism/sociopathy) required she get revenge on Nick in the "worst way" possible. Not just some level of psychological harm to make him feel bad, but actually make him suffer consequences from other people, in front of other people. This is how narcissists work. They don't hurt you as a side effect of normal, natural, or low effort path to peace or pleasure. They actively think about and plan how they will hurt you, and it specifically inflict "necessary or more" damage. A normal person could not do anything close to that for two reasons: 1) it's high effort only meant to harm someone else. It's easy enough to reactively punch someone, break their property, and yell mean things and those are common responses towards someone who hurt you. But concoct, implement, and lay witness to a plan requiring hundreds of hours of work? No, hurt people will probably tire out from the hurt alone with little energy left over to do such a thing. 2) In order for narcissists to exact their revenge they fully pretend to engaged and still friendly with you. #2 is why narcissists and sociopathy can come together. Normal people cannot hold such a strong negative emotion about a person and hide it in front of their face. Still smiling, kissing, complimenting, having sex maybe -- everything relatively taking a normal course until the plan comes into action. Normal people have only a very small window (few max days maybe?), for a very specific and extremely necessary purpose, the ability to act substantially out of their character. Any longer and it's likely they will lose the facade and a normal person will notice something's changed.
@@EbonySeraphim very true nick was a regular guy unlikeable maybe but a cluster B? Thats Amy a woman who if she was real should be behind bars. I dont understand why people are supporting such a character or trying to justify her actions or try to make nick look just as bad when in reality nick is the real victim here.
@@EbonySeraphimcool but I wouldn't call OPs comment terrible insight just cause she used a word that in our society is used to as an umbrella term for people struggling with authentic empathy. It's not the correct term and their observation wasn't as detailed as yours, but you could have just expended and explain instead of degrading OP.
In the end I thing Nick sort of loved the crazy girl part of Amy. He liked the fact that she killed for him and I know he feels wrong in his heart but his head is leading him where the serotonin and false approval lies. Amy is crazy but so is Nick and he loves it, all the characters are horrible people except for Go and Bolt.
I completely agree
right. amy is a raging, manipulative mental patient and nick says that he planned on divorcing her but it’s either she’ll manipulate him into staying and he does or he says he plans on doing so but he doesn’t actually go through it (if she didn’t do her plan.) i feel as though he will never leave amy because like she said, she was his security blanket.
Go is a pick me and is jealous of Amy.
Nick will always be the victim, the good guy, the sane one, the stable one, as long as he stays with Amy.
I’ve seen people stay with batshit crazy people, because it makes them feel better about their problems.
They drink, but their partner drinks more. They are bad with money, but their partner is worse. They are a bad parent, but their partner is worse. They never have to address their own problems with the other person around, and instead can reassure themselves that they are doing ok.
Nick’s pathological need to be the good guy is forever nourished by staying with Amy.
@@rosyvilla6141 I disagree, I think she was just defending her brother because she didn’t like Amy. But all movies are up for interpretation :)
Having read Gillian Flynn's three full-length novels and her short story, what I've come to love about her characters is how human they are at the core. Amy isn't a monster or something inhuman like the villain in a horror story, she's a representation of so many human elements, but twisted into a psychopath for the purposes of a marriage-thriller.
Nick is a man who isn't quite a good *or* bad person, but ends up having to face the consequences of his worst decisions.
I've noticed that none of Gillian's protagonists are likeable in the traditional sense - we connect to them because we relate to their human flaws, but none of them have qualities that really make us think, 'they seem reliable, I'd want to be friends with them.' But that's the fact of being a human - we're ugly sometimes, and I find that Flynn explores that ugliness masterfully, which is why she's one of my favourite authors.
Amy is definitely a monster lol
this is so beautifully written. great review
I really wish "Dark Places" had a better adaptation. In my humble opinion, that is the best work of Flynn. The storytelling, atmosphere, character development and the final reveal--- everything is gut punching and top tier.
He's not a bad person? He cheated on her
@@shreyasingh117 We're supposed to get another go around with "Dark Places" in the near future. This time as an HBO miniseries and with Gillian Flynn as executive producer/writer. Hopefully, it'll be on the same quality as "Sharp Objects" and "Gone Girl" in terms of adaptation.
Amy Dunne is one of the best movie villains I have seen in a while. For me, she up there with Lecter, Stansfield (Leon) and nurse Ratched.
that's a very solid list
@@sder Thanks, man. We can probably think of a few more great villains, though! I later thought of Hans Landa, Annie Wilkes from Misery, the home-invasion duo from Funny Games, and John Doe from Seven.
And that's all just one type of villain: the methodical psycho. I am also partial to the force-of-nature type villains, like the alien from Alien, the evil dimension in Event Horizon, or the nuclear reactor in the Chernobyl miniseries. Amy is human. She can be bargained with. These guys are Lovecraftian. There is no bargaining, they simply don't care. They just follow their nature, and their nature is to destroy us. Makes them extra scary IMHO.
I agree with this. That's why Gone Girl is rewatchable because the way she calculated things to work out the way she wanted was fascinating to watch
i never understood why people saw Nurse Ratched as a villain.
@@jones2277 She is the villain from a narrative perspective, because she presents the major obstacle for the hero, McMurphy. She is a villain also because she is nasty; lawful evil on a permanent power trip. Despite being a health professional, she has no empathy. Ratched is in no way concerned with the inmates' health, well-being, or improvement, let alone their individual needs and ambitions. Instead, all she wants is order, and she is willing to be petty and cruel to attain it. It does not matter to her that the order serves no rehabilitative function because, again, she is not concerned with the inmates' health. She does not care about them at all.
You can sympathize with her, if you want - and it is fine to sympathize with a villain - but I think a villain she is, under every technical definition.
I love the realistic portrayal. She's all gray in action but black and white in thought.
She’s pitch black in action too
Your way off!!!!😢
@@angelawydro6844 no. She's appropriately unhinged for the disorders they want to portray.
@@angelawydro6844no they’re right imo. People who have black and white thinking who have lived amongst people long enough know that they can’t act on this black and white thinking because society will shun them . That’s why Amy is seen as calculative, she thinks about every action she makes because she HAS to. She doesn’t think like regular people, and she has to hide that. Excessive altruism is also very suspicious so the safest spot is to lie in the middle so that you don’t stand out. That’s where the ‘grey behaviours’ come in.
Gillian Flynn is brilliant. I wish she would write more
Phenomenal writer
She is almost done with her fourth novel 😊
@@jpchoueiry4056 best news EVER Thank you!
i will never forgive her for what she did to utopia but otherwise shes one of my favourite writers
@@jpchoueiry4056this is exciting, I've read all her books
One of the men Amy encountered with during her trip is Desi Collings and I think he's just the male version of Amy, who is as much manipulative and controlling as Amy. But in the end Amy outwitted him.
Desi and Amy is like the worst example of each sex
No He mentions that he was under her thumb
In the book, it's even more disturbing.
It was a while since I read it, but I recall Desi's mum appears as a character and she looks remarkably similar to Amy.
I even believe it's noted like twice that Amy and Desi's mum look almost identical.
So... make of that what you will.
@@Δ-Δ-Δ-Δ wait what does that mean
So Amy is an infatuated rich simp? Nah.
The back story of Amy not living up to her parents' expectations (they even wrote how she SHOULD have succeeded, to please them) rings very true to me. My ex husband has NPD, I believe, and I also believe that it is because his own parents placed too high expectations upon him. He was made to feel inadequate inside, so you get this fragile, brittle narcissism which exists to protect the ego which has been so damaged. He really showed his true colours when I was pregnant with our child (even though he really wanted me to be pregnant) because just by existing, vulnerable and needing nurturing and protection, I was making subconscious demands upon him, which he didn't feel he was able to supply. Therefore, looking at pregnant me made him feel uncomfortable and he came to resent me for it.
oh my, have you guys worked that through? i hope the best for the both of you and your unborn child!!
@@shrooms1184 Her story was in past tense and she referred to him as EX Husband.
I can relate to this
@@biteofdogThey still, may have worked through it, now, though.... Plenty of people work better together, after a divorce, working better, as friends, or acquaintance's
@@shrooms1184it’s a narcissist.. chances are it’s a no. most are heartless and selfish beyond what you could imagine
I love this movie so much the actor who played Amy should have won a best female actor award.
Agreed
Should of? Where'd you go to school? 😂😂😂
I could maybe see that, just like when Phoenix got denied Best Supporting Actor in Gladiator. It seems like people can be biased against villains when it comes to awards for great acting.
Have
Many people on the internet type
should of
or would of
instead of
should have, or would have, the correct way.
Must be people who don't read. So they're typing what they hear
Having been married for nearly a decade it scares me that even a portion of my marriage could be built on lies. Because above everything else we promised we told each other we would never lie to one another. Even if the truth hurts us both. And if that makes me naive then I guess I am. Maybe in another decade I might see things differently.
Perfect Amy Dunne style comment!
That's how she presents herself as.
@@CordeliaWagner but I'm telling the truth. It really would bother me if I found out a part of my life was a lie. Depending on the lie it could destroy the foundation on which my marriage lays. Its like living with a terminal illness only to find out half way through your life you were never sick in the first place.
@@CordeliaWagner? Homies just speaking his reality
It doesn't make you naive - movies are meant to scare you, but they're not representative of the real world.
@@jth4242 i regret to inform you that narcissists are indeed real and do fake entire personalities and lives just to get what they want. ie the many people who have actually experienced this lmfao.
I just wanna say that Ben Affleck gets a lot of hate for various reasons, but I think he’s a good actor and he doesn’t get much credit for that
please stop thinking! He isn't all of that
💀💀💀
He was decent in Gone Girl. He is still the worst Batman though.
@@fightsports66true
@@fightsports66he is absolutely the worst Batman
For anyone who liked “Gone Girl” - there’s an awesome book called “Behind Closed Doors” about a crazy marriage. Not as nuanced as Gone Girl but still a satisfying read.
Behind Closed Doors was insane...in a good way. I was on the edge of my seat.
If it's the book I'm thinking of, the BBC made a series called Angela Black that's inspired by said book and it's incredible 🙌
Is Amy extreme in the story? Yes. Is she wrong for framing Nick and murdering Desi? Yes.
But Gone Girl has its iconic status because Amy is a relatable antihero in some way, and their messed up marriage and its stages are recognizable to many. That’s why this story is chilling and memorable.
Yes, Gone Girl ultimately seems to be more about real relationships than it is about the extreme mystery / thriller events that play out in the story. By the end it even becomes a satire suggesting that mature marriages are held together more by a kind of blackmail than loyalty or love. It's an exaggeration, but there is some truth to this that many will recognize. The way the film allows the audience to enjoy the mystery and thriller elements while also making it about real relationships is truly brilliant.
But then you have to take the extra step and be critical of those relatable elements and ask yourself if that’s a problem
@@KayButtonJayits staggering that people dont do this. Your husband cheating on you is terrible but the insane revenge plot where she plans to ruin his life, discredit him publicly, take everything from him, and then KILL HERSELF to get back at him is insane and it scares tf out of me when people say Amy is relatable and an antihero. No one normal fantasizes about going this far to hurt others, even in revenge
@@dizzy4303I know this proves that women are just as dumb as the assholes who think Taxi driver is about a misunderstood hero 😂
@@dizzy4303 I actually...disagree. I think it's extremely common for people to have such extreme fantasies about getting revenge on someone who wronged you. They just don't actually do them.
In other words, if I caught my husband of five years cheating on me with a much younger person, in my anger and grief I would absolutely concoct elaborate fantasies of making him pay, but I would do so with the understanding that I was not actually going to attempt anything beyond your average divorce settlement and that having these fantasies was just a coping mechanism. The reason Amy is relatable and also deranged is because she actually does the things that the darker parts of our psyches tell us to do. How many times have you ever had the thought "if I killed myself over this then they'd all be sorry!"? That's literally a part of Amy's plan.
Characters like Nick make women relate to Amy. NOT SIDE WITH HER, but relate to her.
A lot of us have been stuck with our own versions of Nicks. To be involved with someone like that for 5 years can be maddening. And for someone as damaged as Amy, it turned out to be just as hard.
Eh that's still pretty pathetic. I mean you're basically admitting you were in a shit relationship and didn't have the spine to just end it. If it's maddening then it's your fault that it was.
i side with her totally.
@@R1ck_RyderNaaah this kind of relationships are hard to end because you want it to work and you keep waiting for the other to be better, to change until they don't.
@@R1ck_Ryder Even if she ended it she would still have lost, because after she put in tons more than him into their marriage while he put in the bare minimum, she would have lost more than him when she ended it. She gave up her money, her career, uprooted her whole life for this marriage, for him. She wanted some payment in return. To her, it was maddeningly unfair that she had to go through so much, and will probably have to go through more if she ends it, when things can be so much better if only her deadbeat husband just puts in the effort that he should, that he promised he would. I can't side with her while she is slashing people's throats, but I relate to her.
@@R1ck_Ryder And yes, though you always do have a choice, it doesn't mean it's not a shit choice.
This narrator is advocating for unconditional love but I think it's incredibly important to know it is ok to fall out of love with someone including a spouse. This is especially the case if their behavior detriments you and or the relationship. People can and should be held accountable for their actions and you do not owe them your unconditional love as a spouse.
Yes! Sometimes unconditional love is a trap.
Well it's also a myth. Unconditional love doesn't really exist.
Marriage relationships are transactional. We want to believe it’s unconditional, but it’s not. We want to feel the same sort of love we had (or wished we had) from our parents in marriage, but that is not the case. You have to keep up your end, and hope the other person does too. From my studies, I’ve concluded marriages that last happen due to people being committed to the marriage, not necessarily because they love one another. Because love ebbs and flows, but commitment outlives the waves. So, I agree with the premise that unconditional love doesn’t exist in marriages. Our actions do have consequences, but hopefully we are able to resolve them peacefully.
The story tells Nick from a side that is the opposite of inspirational for a husband. We see it's not just that Amy's manipulations are forcing actions, but also Nick's initial struggle and then ultimate response is grounded in what Amy wants, not love... But a transaction she THINKS is love.
Imagine if someone with true love and commitment married Amy, what an absolutely different story that would be. There are people that are married to psychopaths that aren't themselves, the selfless, patience, sacrifice, and endurance... Nick had none of those traits. His career, his reputation, his "life"... He refused to let them be destroyed. He himself didn't live up to that unconditional love he was asking for either. There's definitely an undercurrent of tragedy that in portraying this "perfect" marriage... They effective have locked themselves into the exact opposite. A marriage that is a social contract without the bonds of love at their core.
Just imagine if Nick actually did commit to actually loving his wife despite her lies, letting the truth be truth. Could Amy possibly have become a better person and learned to understand what love really is in her own way? I really was struck by that tragic irony. That their love was conditional all along... And they're just giving into that fully because ultimately they loved other things more than each other. Their child is just another excuse for Nick... And Amy knows that Nick will use that "excuse" or any other to justify his decisions rather than face the truth and his mortality. If it became a choice between a choice between his child and himself? Do you think he'll actually choose the child? I'm not so sure. I'd like to believe he's capable of change but the story really has shown... He's not going to make the hard choices.
lol no he is showing what happens when a psychopath(Amy) marries a sociopath and manipulates him.
I know people like this. They are the most charming and likable people when they're out at social events, school, or workplaces, but go off the rails when behind closed doors. The best thing you can do is cut ties with them. Even if its a family member. The worst thing you can do is be passive and let them continue to mess with you and your wellbeing. Just bc someone is family, doesn't mean you have to stick around to deal with their mental issues.
This isn't a defence of Amy's character, but Desi really creeped me out as well. He also seemed very controlling and manipulative.
Yeah, the way he was so quick to force her back into being the Amy he knew was very very controlling. He would change the subject everytime she talked about her "trauma", and started molding her into the woman he loved from the second they reunited.
This is one of those rare occasions when the movie is as good as the novel, but adding different details. Both absolutely brilliant. The book, of course, has a lot more details and more of Amy's internal monologue that illustrated how truly miserable she always was, it's scary how psychopathic and honest her thoughts were. I remember her describing the scene from her childhood when she didn't know what to do on a birthday party, she didn't understand why children screamed or laughed or played. It's like she was unable to feel joy or enjoy anything truly, like she was an empty shell of a person. And she wasn't like a bookish introvert ethier. It was a small detail, but it scared me the most. As Nick said, it's truly horrifying to live like that.
The idea of unconditional love can be horrible too. To what extent can we unconditionally love? What does "when the goings get rough" mean? That's what a lot of abused victims say to themselves to stay in the relationship. All love should be conditional, otherwise you will likely let a significant other hurt you continuously out of the mere fantasy of unconditional love. That shouldn't exist. You should have standards and conditions. Also, it's a bit odd you didn't mention her ex essentially holding her captive, so her killing him could be seen as self defense since he wasn't ever going to let her leave.
Unconditional love doesn’t mean having no boundaries, or acting like everything is acceptable. Love is a two-way street. If your partner treats you poorly, then staying with them and simply tolerating that behaviour is to not love yourself.
What you said here is Brilliant. That fear is what motivates Nick at the end of the film to be the best Husband he can be at the fear of what Amy will do to him. While Amy has always been behaving as the "Perfect" wife from the start because of the Gendered assumption that as a woman she has to put in more effort to make her relationship work.
As the emotional labour of relationships in real life almost always falls on the woman so of course if the relationship fails the blame will fall on her. While Nick could just move on with a younger woman.
The question then becomes why did it have it take Amy being a completely depraved murdering psychopath for Nick to invest as much energy in making the marriage work as Amy is just expected too.
No exactly. I was always confused about how seriously people took this truly ridiculous character. She’s a living fantasy born from the impotence many women feel when dealing with the gendered dynamics in a relationship (or at least this is the impression I get from discourse about people who like the character, I should mention that im a man). The many ways lopsided gendered expectations have cut down woman in relationships aren’t something you can simply just retaliate against. Amy as a manifestation of this frustration (hehe rhymes) is iconic because she directly confronts the mundane absurdity of the situation with a more visceral type of absurdity.
I don’t disagree with anything in this video, but I think the choice to focus so earnestly on Amy as a narcissist obscures the more interesting meanings within the story.
There are more mature ways of dealing with relational issues than being a psychopath? This is not an argument that is valid. Being a psychopath means you got an issue with your brain. Bad relationships don’t turn people into something they’re not already for all genders.
@@meowmeow1stgen668to be fair, you don’t choose to be a literal psychopath
Lopsided gendered expectations is hilarious when men basically have to do most of the work in the beginning of relationships and have to have more attractive qualities in general just to catch the eye of and fully retain a partner
@@FencingMessiahno, absolutely not in my case. Lol my husband admitted he'd probably still be a single virgin
She's horrible but her monologue is accurate. Barbie movie's monologue doesn't hold a candle to Gone Girls's one.
Right.
Very different films.
Sure.
Her husband could have an identical monologue about the expectations his wife had for him and how he had to mold himself into a perfect being for her to even be attracted to him. They both did the same thing to each other except she's a sociopath so she committed murder and tried to frame him. While he's a scumbag and cheated.
Why would you compare Barbie and Gone Girl lmao they serve two completely different purposes and were released almost ten years apart 💀
i haven't read the book, but in the movie nick comes across as a narcissist too. why he falls so easily for her performance is because, like narcissus, Amy is his mirror. he only chooses to see what he wants reflected back to him.
Well that's why you need to read the novel. There's more context in the novel.
I'd once met a girl like Amy. Her life theories have impressed me since I hung out with her. She knows how to get what she wants; she stirs everyone's pot until all the sub-relationships around her get into a mess, and no one would question her but still lose themselves in her charm. She tried to fabricate evidence to make the police believe she was being domestic abused by her ex-husband. She tried to use the law to get full access to her ex-husband's property and tried to leave her ex nothing after the divorce, those she'd never paid a penny for. And she did all this when she was 19 years old. I was her best friend, and ended up separated ugly because I started my own company. I guess she doesn't like to see someone who always admired her try to do something she wanted to do, then she spread the most malicious rumors about me in our community, left me stuck in depression for 5 years, still in and out of it. But she is very charming and beautiful, like toxic but makes you high, and her ways of thinking were so eye-opening for me when I was 21-23 years old. Now I am a student of psychology. I know she is just a psychopath and a narcissistic person. (and we all Chinese)
Sometimes I wonder if living a facade, a living mirage, is worth the success. Everything around me supports economic and social progress. Being poor and alone seems dull and miserable in contrast. Sad world.
I don't think it's so black and white as that. Being true to yourself does not guarantee loneliness and misery. Just as putting up a facade won't guarantee success and status (but it could perhaps expedite the process). I guess it's a balance that each person has to decide for themselves. How far are you willing to fake it before you lose yourself. For some, the wealth or popularity might be worth it. I will say that there's a lot of integrity to holding fast to truth and being genuine. Relationships require trust to thrive; it's pretty hard to trust someone when you don't even know the true "them".
I’m alone and the happiest I’ve ever been. Being in a relationship that is unstable or unevenly yolked, etc can be a living Hell.
live your life as you please my friend
This is one of my top 5 favourite books ever! You really made an amazing observation that Nick starts behaving like the ideal husband only because he is afraid of her. One thing that really stands out to me in this story is that none of the main characters are good people. Amy, her parents, Nick, his sister; they are all different types of crappy people. This list also includes Desi. While I do agree that he didn't deserve to have his neck slit open and framed for rape; he was an awful, creepy and controlling person who also wanted a fabricated version of Amy which was eerily similar to his mother (ew).
What are your other favourites?
I was married to someone similar. Not as exaggerated of course, but she’s one way at home and a totally different person in public. It’s scary. Majority of people who meet her have an erroneous idea of what she’s really like. She has a tendency to try to make herself look good while making me look bad. The marriage lasted less than a year.
Proud of you for not being there anymore, even if mentally it may feel like you're back there sometimes, since that's how abusive relationships go
I'm soo happy to see this video in my feed. This is a film I repeatedly come back to, because it so perfectly encapsulates our generations dilemma , ie form v content, image v authenticity. I love the concept that if u desperately seek to be seen as a victim u will bring the true experience upon yourself, ie Amys privilege means she loved to flirt with victimhood, having never experienced true terror or pain in her life, but when it came down to surviving reality, she could never hack surviving as a poor individual without status or money or a man. Her entitlement and fury at her own failures really speaks to many of our worlds problems today. Thanks for this 🎉
True story. When I first saw Gone Girl, I thought it was based on a true story. I was amazed how much of a mastermind this psychopath was. I still embarrassedly laugh at myself over this.
Don't laugh.
I think that’s a credit to Flynn for writing such real, recognisable characters (and those involved in the film for adapting it in such a faithful way).
I’ve always maintained Gone Girl is the best book to film adaptation I’ve ever seen. It’s the only time I’ve seen a movie be exactly what I pictured in my head when I read the book. Such a subjective thing to capture, but I think it’s because of Flynn’s book, and her involvement in the film.
Can't blame you, I thought it was loosely based off the Lacey Peterson story for a good chunk of the movie!
"Love is a choice" is another one of those truths that our culture does not want to acknowledge, but is becoming increasingly harder to disregard when the ability to choose is made readily available and more transparent.
Great video as usual! Rosamund Pike is so eloquent and well spoken. I could listen to her talk all day
I love this movie as it showed a really smart girl lead but of course what she did should never be condoned nor do I think most people who like the character actually think what she did was justified either. I just think most people like how smart and conniving she was portrayed and the man was the one who was manipulated. Men in society nowadays seem to be the manipulators so it was nice to see a girl who was that way
Men in society are the manipulators is crazy.
Insane. She is insane and you are for liking her
I agree. It's crazy how looking at this story while I don't agree with her actions, I do think she took things extremely way too far in what she did or how she did it. Men get away with being manipulative and conniving and all of those things all the time so yes it was nice seeing the ball in our court for once. Again not saying she was right in anything that she did but
@@0.0dots yes it was just interesting to see how a woman would do it
you skipped movie classes from late 80s movies to modern chick-flicks like Mean Girls if you think this is the first time a girl has been portrayed as conniving
"Men in society nowadays seem to be the manipulators" depends what media you consume, and in my personal experience as a girl I've always been manipulated by other girls, whereas men just leave me alone if I'm not counting family members
This essay was excellent. I don't know if you'll see this comment, but I hope you do so I can encourage you. When you got to the part about the two cups, I started thinking to myself, "Wait, this guy is using language about relationships that line up with scripture, what the heck?" And then the next line was, "With Jesus, my cup overflows." Then I was thinking, "Oh dang, this guy is a Christian!" That was so refreshing to me, since you hardly run into that on youtube unless you're looking for it. And all of the observations about unconditional love after that point were so solid and well put. Even without those factors, it was a well written video essay that I found engaging from start to finish. I hope you keep doing this, and keep bringing in God even if people aren't always receptive to it.
Thanks so much, that really means a lot.
I don't think shes an admirable character, but damn it if she aint relatable. All humans slightly alter their behavior to fit in with those around us, its just that she didnt have consistent external validation that shes a worthy human, outside of her various personas, and especially if she doesn't accomplish "x, y, z", so she holds an enormous amount of admiration for these "roles" and archetypes. She sees the real value society holds for rhe artifice and plays to that hand very well.
I think the part that gets a lot of us is that we all had a part that commiserated with her really hard, up to a point. I think those few chapters were my favorite. Seeing all the places I initially agreed with her, then the realization of all the sublte manipulations and could see how easily i could have done some of those things - again, up to a point - in order to inspire the "best" (in our opinion) in our partnerships and relationships
Wtf
i’ll always love her. i was raised and abused by narcissists my entire life. she helped me stop myself from trying to be the “cool girl” and simply be myself, i don’t let people hurt me anymore and i don’t see anything wrong with that. people love and worship the wolf of wall street the same way i’ll love gone girl
i was so confused when Amy was in the getaway, ruining her hair, eating like a hobo and not caring for her figure. Then I realize, she was not he perfect pretty woman she portrayed to be Nicks' wife. That was not the real her. in fact, nothing is sure about the real her. Just that she's cold, calculating manipulative. She doesn't care about maintaining the cool girl look.
I don't think she even knows who she is, but she wanted to distance herself from what she had been for the last years.
People dont admire psychopaths but they do admire their courage even if its a product of their cruelty and callousness
I’ve always maintained that the first 3 months of any relationship are who two people want to be seen as. This isn’t NECESSARILY a bad thing. There are levels of trust that people go through into letting people into their lives to see the mess behind the nice. Beware of anyone who wants to go too far too fast or seems too good to be true. I think what the author of this synopsis about Amy and the ideal “cool girl” trope is that it was in large part created by MALE Hollywood writers. There are girls who like Star Wars, fixing cars, watching sports, etc… but they may not look like Megan Fox.They could but she’s probably going to have some flaws& baggage too like everyone else. Some girls and women also fell for this trope trying so hard to be who men thought they should be without really exploring what they truly want. Don’t do that women! The perfect girl doesn’t exist except inside the mind of men. Plus, the Ben Affleck character is indicative of the problems that most men suffer from in today’s society. He doesn’t really love anyone but himself. Most studies today show that men fall in love faster ( based on appearance) and also fall out of love faster and move on faster. What does that tell you? Also, men are 6 TIMES more likely to leave a partner with a serious illness! Ben Affleck’s character is typical. He skates through life on shallow superficial charm only committed as long as it doesn’t inconvenience him too much. Even if Amy wasn’t the monster that she clearly is he’d probably cheat or leave as soon as things weren’t fun or easy anymore. We pity him by the end of the movie stuck with a sociopath but honestly…does he deserve better? I don’t know I don’t think anyone deserves to be with a person like Amy but at least the two of them won’t ruin two other peoples lives.
Also, single Mothers actually do less housework than married women. Single men are experiencing a loneliness epidemic now and it’s because of the reasons I mentioned along with a plethora of other vastly more disturbing reasons. Women have finally woken up and interestingly enough this movie helped them along that journey. With everything I’ve mentioned WHY would we desire a relationship with a man? We’ve lost respect and have not been appreciated. When respect is lost and you start seeing the motivations behind the attention men give you…what’s left? You don’t desire what you don’t respect.
the problem with their first phase is that they faked their personalities.
In the movie yes. To some extend almost everyone puts their best foot forward in the beginning. That’s the way relationships go. But, Amy is a different story. Amy is narcissistic and sees life or her own personality as a performance like most narcs, sociopaths, and psychopaths. @@MarieTheOstrich
This is based on a book written by a woman
And? What’s your point? @@CL-kv3jq
When I first saw this movie I stated aloud that this is the only comparable female counterpart in all of film to Dr. Hannibal Lecter. At least comparable.
Lecter is by far my favorite villain of all time so my wife took notice.
One thing that makes this movie fascinating is the sickening way our society reacted to it. Even though Amy should be clearly despised, especially by women- in fact I’ve heard from several people all female who tend to excuse her disgusting character. I think that was one of the most fascinating things about this movie.
The comments in this video say otherwise mist women are defending her and empathise with her, concluding that her actions are "understandable"
@@s0ne01 purrrrty much
What I really think it is, like someone else stated, people who are not psychopaths do not have the emotional energy to keep up a plan that long. Women (especially those who have been cheated on) resonate with the fact that she took that hurt and hurt him back. Was it right? Absolutely not. Was her actions visceral and extreme? Definitely, but to be able to calculate and connive until your plan is together to hurt the person who hurt you is truly a feeling that a lot of women long for towards men who hurt them but in reality there is very little revenge, satisfaction or closure. It’s a messed up part of the world and Amy’s character should 100% be in jail, but it is no secret why women can pick parts of her story that they can resonate with without idolizing or excusing her actions.
@@kernaishaxoxo great response! Thank you.
I guess my point was that Hannibal Lecter was rightly seen in society in the movie and in real life by audiences as a monster.
Amy however was seen in the movie as more of a kind of hero for scorned women. Also I heard many women in real life outright excuse her actions and blame the man. Almost as if to say, “well he’s listening now isn’t he?!”
Also, to say that nick cheated on her and hurt her is excusing her actions in a way. She lied to him from the moment they met. He never really knew who she was until he realized that she set this whole thing up. I agree that he is selfish lazy and indolent but she didn’t even really feel anything- she’s a sociopath. Her perception of being “hurt” is not what you or I would experience. She deserves no understanding.
What you said about Amy being hurt makes about as much sense to me as if I were to say that Hannibal Lecter deserved sympathy for the oppression he experienced as a carnivore.
@@MsGavboI can only speak for myself but as a woman I found myself rooting for Michael Douglas's character in "A Perfect Murder"(great movie if you haven't seen it). It's very similar to GG; sociopath husband finds out his wife is having an affair and plans the perfect murder that he comes really close to fulfilling. Also one of my favorite movies "Dial M for Murder" same plot scorned husband plans the perfect murder of his wife and nearly gets away with it. I always thought it was strange to root for the bad guys in these movies but I think it goes to show it's not so much a gender thing as empathizing with a scorned spouse even as I'm aware they are doing evil. Being cheated on is one of the worst feelings in the world for either sex and movies allow a way for us to relate and explore, if only briefly and superficially, our darker human instincts.
But I've always wondered, what does the narcissist get out of such extensive work? Isn't the point for them to get what they want? If they spend their entire lives playing a character for someone else, what did they get to enjoy? That sounds much more like subservience. Are they secretly gratified that they are putting one over on somebody?
It has always seemed to me that this media character is a kind of boogeyman. Some scary archetype that you might get lured in by. Like the stalker who walks after you really slow, it is entirely focused on you, to scare you and such. It doesn't have any motivations or pay off of its own.
I think actual narcissists are a lot less enchanting and more boring. They tend to be one-note and keep harping on their to-do list until you comply or escape.
Maybe, but I spent 2 years dating a narcissist I found absolutely enchanting, and who everyone else around me also fell for. In the end he was nothing like the person he made us believe he was; he became completely unhinged. These people aren’t happy, they only want control
@@elise5172those are the smarter ones, many narcissists are the most boring shallow people you could ever meet. it’s all a facade
I think this is somewhat sage. i struggle with narcisisstic issues, and its like clawing my way out of a paper bag trying to be a social creature. Sometimes I feel ready but something spiritual will tip my scales. Sometimes I feel ready but I want that gratification you speak of too much and trade in a true socialable exchange for being like the cat that got the cream and can't stop licking itself, even its its hella fragile, just a slight overpowering in terms of priorities. ive been told im not a narcissist because i can care for others but i don't have responsibilities without a sense of control and i'm just a touch too precarcious to be fit for a normal seat in society until i overcome this. it's pretty tedious to be me, so i go to great extremes to be creative in my mind, but it could be in case anyone's looking inside me. if i knew i was alone, i'd just want to know what i honetly think about things, what is yay and what is nay and how do to nice and naughty and rest and restlessness while maintaining a conceptual or integral sense of being a 'me'
oh and sometimes i want that gratification of pulling something over someone, not to trick them but to hold the reigns or be loved excitedly over seen truly and acknowledged and patiently warmed up to, but i guilt myself out of trying because i feel like people know my crimes or are acrimonious and then i think they are unideal for being what i imagine is acrimonious and then they loathe my presence i take it.
People in the comments defending Amy are the same people she would turn into her victims.
This comment should be pinned at the top, absolutely true! They are also the same people who wonder why they have such a poor dating history because they can’t see they choose the same toxic partners time after time.
I like her but that doesn't mean she isn't wrong
Nope, because I’m not a cheater. It’s not hard to not cheat lmfaooo
I'm not a fan of cheaters, however Amy is basically pure evil so I let it slide.
@@katnip9280
Not taking any responsibility for being manipulated by others is even lamer. How can anyone learn from their mistakes if they don't admit to themselves that they made mistakes?
The real issue with her is that although Nick has a twin, Amy's parents have successfully made their own daughter a doppelganger. Perfect Amy by proxy about looking for a mirror that shows all of real Amy's micro imperfections, also her parents kind of stole her life and got rich because of it and when Nick steps up to do the same (in Amy's mind, stealing her life and money and cheating on her) is the trigger button. I don’t believe she is a narcissist, but rather a psychopath with the doppelganger or her “doubly perfect literary version, which highlights all of her personal flaws” of not being The Perfect Amy being the final set off.
I remember getting my friends to watch this and none of them knew the twist and it was amazing watching them first wondering why I got them to watch a “simple” wife murder and seeing their faces when it hits them it was a amazing moment
Every marriage takes a lot of effort from both end no matter what, but if the base of the marriage is not real, it’s never going to make either party happy.
Yes, it is terrible Amy’s husband cheats and in result, she got hurt but he also doesn’t love her, why does she torture herself with the marriage that’s already broken?
i think its more that all of the traits amy dunne has are lauded and admired in male protagonists: but in her, the male audience just sees her as “a psychopath”
Ironic how men *worship* the men of "Scarface," "American Psycho," and "Fight Club" by hanging images of these idols on their empty white walls, but Amy Elliot-Dunne, with many of the same characteristics as the aforementioned male gods, is viewed as an evil succubus who must be destroyed and abandoned.
@@jujubean8870lmao you're delusional. These movies CLEARLY frame those men as crazy or evil. Just because some dipshits on the internet get the wrong impression doesn't mean we all worship them. That's just you projecting
@@jujubean8870I didn't see the others but fight club seemed to have a completely different message to me.
More like to not fall for charismatic narcissists. They're cool handsome and they seem to get everything money can't buy.
They can create a cult following but in the end it just leads to disaster
@@jujubean8870It's amazing how you genuinely believe men "worship" any of those characters. If anything, you're just projecting your insecurities onto men to make yourself feel better. Even the way you phrased "empty white walls", it just gives insight to how your worldview is dictated by your insecurities
@@jujubean8870 No, but personally as a man, movies like that are genuinely the only way I can feel a sense of any type of connection and being able to be expressive of how I really feel. Worship though? Guess it depends on your definition of worship. Also, yes I do shame some women for being overly passionate over characters such as this because I've actually met women who will literally embrace the characteristic traits of thing's they hear and see, whether they really understand or not. Like my mother used to be type of woman to see a narcissistic, sadistic, evil mother in a film, and one day decided to sort of use that same energy because in her mind it became a useful tool to children such as me who were labeled "brats."
Please make more analysis videos like this one! This was brilliant! Why did you change the title? It was 'Narcissistic Facades' before and I feel like that fits best because there's this essence of us projecting the fantasy of perfection onto the other, the loved one. Like Narcissus, transfixed into destruction by the delirious delusions his own reflection.
Do we go into job interviews expecting to bare our souls and still be hired for the job? No. To varying degrees, we attempt to project this idealized version of ourselves. And this is ever so pronounced in today's dating world, where everyone is branding and commodifying themselves into these packable checkmark box of an individual. What I love about this commentary is how much it highlights the ubiquitous of the problems of how we look at love. How the idea of unconditional love, loving someone as they are, with ALL their flaws...how THAT idea is something that goes against modernity. In today's capitalistic society it's all about leveraging and hedging your bets and constantly looking out for a better deal as to maximize "happiness" a word, concept rather, that gets conflated for hedonistic simple pleasures of fulfilling convenient desires, instead of looking at happiness as an active process of reaching some sort of equanimity.
And what's even more interesting by the end of the story Amy and Nick actually start to become the composite for what true love in marriage actually is. By the end of it all they start to go back to performing but through this performance the real thing is forged. Nick is completely tied to her. He can never leave and he doesn't want to, he's never been better than when he was performing too. He will never find anyone who will do for him what she did and now they share a child together. In the end she says "I would never ever hurt you Nick" and I believe her. EVEN THE PLAN WAS FOR HER TO KILL HERSELF, NOT THE OTHER WAY AROUND. She's someone who would kill 1,000 people without batting an eyelash to protect her family. It kinda reminds me of the "Last of Us" And as long as Nick agrees to play his part and perform, she WILL perform her role and be what he desire. And we all know through her parents that this is HOW she has learned to even show her love. But it's all real. That's what's so brilliant. At the end of the day, this whole ordeal brought them even closer together, even his sister has no bearing on the fortitude of their marriage. I could go on and on.
Love your insights, and I appreciate the feedback on the title! I changed it back
awesome! i can’t wait for more analysis videos from you. your channel is new but the quality is fantastic. also i wanna say, i don’t think we should not be putting amy & nick as the ideal couple, they are horrible…it’s more that if they do stay together like it seems they have by the end of the book - they will die being together and married while others who haven’t even had to deal with nearly anything as dramatic as what happened here will divorce and part ways eventually, meaning that their marriage and love endured and lasted past the other “healthy” relationships that just couldn’t stick it out.
I disagree.
In the book, I remember she's gleeful about Nick getting gang-raped in prison by the other inmates and she has nothing but contempt for him.
I even recall her last words are about how she doesn't like how he's getting out of her control again.
She's not someone who would do anything for her family. She even tells Desi that her father sexually abused her to gain sympathy from him.
She simply needs Nick, as a tool. Once he's not useful, she'll murder him.
Love your thoughts on this!! It's refreshing to see people willing to explore socially aberrant characters without trying to place moral judgements, especially symbolic characters like these!
How can it be “real” and genuine though. Most abusers have love and abuse mixed up, and for some that’s how they show love or think love is. it’s still wrong. It’s still not “real” love. And most importantly it can never be love. What it really is, is abuse, a facade of love, a delusion. Anything can be labeled “love” that doesn’t make it so, its abuse labeled “love”. I think another reason they can never love each other is because he will never be seen by her since she projects on to him what character she wants him to be instead of loving him for who he is and she will never be seen for who she is because she will never let another person see her for who she truly is. He wants to be seen and she won’t let anyone see her. And it’s not a “with the right person she’ll let herself be seen”, it’s not about the other person, it’s about giving up their own fake reality to be vulnerable in truth. That’s why the fight so hard to keep the act up control and manipulate others to keep their false reality going anything to not be real, almost as if being real feels wrong to them like water to rabies. Narcissists have cognitive empathy and cognitive vulnerability, but they will never ever be truly vulnerable because to do so means their carefully crafted delusional world comes crumbling down to reveal REALITY something they can’t live in. I also think she would never kill herself most narcissistic individuals use this as just another way to control someone especially if she would be that desperate to regain back control. Or alternatively, she would have disappeared with no intention of going back, a suicide of the character she is playing, then she’d just create a new one so on. Their marriage is a tragedy and should treated as a cautionary tale.
Rosemunde pike is the best ever cast actor for this role! She's magnificent as Amy!
I agree!
Some actors have a role of a lifetime as the pinnacle of their career, this is that role for Pike. So happy after years being stuck in the supporting role and getting typecast, her first leading role here and she truly knocked it outta the park. I'm pretty sure the world wasn't ready how good of a villain role Pike was going to be because of her sweet innocent image
And to think she played Jane in Pride and Prejudice
Pike's performance is amazing. I saw this film when it first came out and was impressed beyond words. But having viewed it again, recently, and (with appreciation!) also viewed Soder's excellent analysis of the character, I'm doubly impressed.
Great acting. Great analysis.
Did you ever see it do it again in "I care a lot,"
She nails these types of roles.
Pike's casting is what makes the movie extremely refreshing to me. Instead of casting actress that we obviously know they could nail this role like Charlize Theron, Nicole Kidman or maybe Emily Blunt, Rosamund Pike was like a weird option at first because this was her first leading role and it's hard to imagine her playing a psycho convincingly due to her sweet image. Gone Girl was a risky against type role for her and it was surprising to a lot of people that the person who played Jane Bennet in Pride & Prejudice can play a psycho very well
I forgot about the multiple choice part of Amazing Amy & her Personality Quiz job. Great video, and I do appreciate that you read the book! It is so rare that men read women writers esp when it features a women as a major character.
I appreciate it!
I think this story is really well written. Both characters are extremely hateable and likeable in their own ways. But you can see Amy's character constricting around her partner to extreme lengths after creating a premise that is a common experience becoming more and more deranged throughout the story. I think thats what makes it so disturbing.
The opening scene, Amy Dunne looks up at Nicholas Dunne.
The ending scene, Amy Dunne looks up at the audience.
That David Fincher, he is a sneaky one!
i'm 8 minutes in and i have to leave it and finish the video after my classes but DAMN, I REALLY DO NOT WANT TO STAND UP FROM THIS CHAIR. The narration, and the music used on the video really captivates ur attentio, really well crafted
A weird repetitive comment I keep seeing is that Nick actually fell for Amy again and "wanted" to stay.
He didn't. Amy felt she had to threaten Nick with an anti-freeze vomit jar and a forced pregnancy to blackmail him into playing 'happy house husband' so that he wouldn't expose her lies.
Excellent video essay. your interpretation of Amy (and her elter ago) is spot on. she is one of the best fictional psycopaths out there and you definitely did her justice, well done!
Was the Jesus bit a joke that yanked me out of the video hahaaa
I wasn’t a fan of that.
Same here.
Like - What?
As a believer I appreciated.
I hope it was. I didn't like it tho
The way this video handwaves Nick's affair as a triggering event. Nick, the professor who nobly sleeps with a young student. Please 😂
I grew up with a sociopath mother. Great actress, great manipulator, always playing the victim to distract people from what she is actually doing. I was the scapegoat, tiny disabled female, so I had endure her cruelty while my brothers were her bfs so they could do whatever they wanted. If my alpha brother wanted to shoot people with his bb gun, get suspended for beating up nerds and choking girls, and destroy the house with his HS parties my dad was not allowed to punish him. My dad is my mother's absolute thrall, he cannot think for himself at all, it's actually unnerving. The power of mind control she wields over people is scary to me. I honestly think some people are possessed by demons, I would see them manifest in my mom, her eyes would bulge and she'd undulate like a snake while saying to me, "you think you are so much better than me, don't you." It would paralyze me with terror. At times she did not look human.
There are so many mothers like this.
Many women bring this behavior into the workplace now
If you pretend to be someone you're not just to get a man you will want revenge on him if he cheats on you or breaks up with you after all the personal sacrifices you made for him to try to be with him that you would not have done had you remained single.
But if you stay true to yourself and remain authentic and a man cheats or leaves you, all you will think is, "Well he liked me for who I was at first
so either he wasn't honest about liking me so good riddence or he is just a selfish prick and so it's his loss if he f*cks up or walks away. Not my problem.
That quote about love having many conditions is so insightful.
Reminder; Jennifer Gardner and her children were cheated on by Ben Affleck. For "J-Lo" .
Funny coincidence, this role he's played a couple years before.
Ive been reading and studying psychology and manipulation for a while, through out the entire movie i was impressed by Amy's intelligence and found myself pausing to think "she can go in so many directions with this", disturbingly enough i was in awe, but in the end when Nick had to stay in the house with her, i became paralysed with fear, she was in complete control and was Siphoning his life essence away, just the bare sight of her standing in the kitchen or looking into the camera in the end made me turn away from the screen in fear, in those eyes you could see that she was capable of ANYTHING.
loved this detailed explanation. I had my original theories about this character, but this summed up it so eloquently.
I love this character so much. I’m not condoning her actions but I just love her rage. ❤
She's terrifying
Ew
I find her fascinating also.
um... ok...
Crazy how i definitely condone her actions. Don't cheat, simple
Shuuuu!! How many couples try 'control' their partner in order to carefully craft a certain image to world.....usually an image of perfection, such so, that when the other partner deviates from this image it causes tension and elevates the toxicity. Instead of working through questions of why we need society to see us in a certain light or why we are placing our happiness in someone else's hands, we just find it easier to try curate and control our public perception.
I will always love this movie for the way it makes men clutch their little pearls
Unfortunately a lot of children have mothers like that.
A very strange comment
I love this comment.😂
As a woman this movie was disgusting.
Yes lol, she scares men sm it’s funny
I was married to an Amy Elliot Dunne. Absolute nightmare… Can’t be happier I recognised the signs early and got out as quickly as I did with no shared offspring
“With Jesus, my cup overflows.”
Well that came out of left fucking field. I can’t tell if it was genuine or a joke, but I’m going to pretend it’s the latter.
A lot of people have referenced this point. From my perspective, it’s a perfectly logical progression (when talking about human sources of fulfillment) to bring it back to God, as He is the only one that can provide lasting joy and peace. To those seeking fulfillment in life apart from God, I understand how the comment may come across as jarring or “out of left field”, but in my life, God is directly intertwined with the conversation. To expel points of religion would be to errantly represent my worldview.
@@sder I’m always fascinated, and frankly a little impressed with the creativity, at the countless ways y’all can express both your supposed moral/ethical superiority & our “absence” of it.
The tone is typically like yours- this surface-level non offensive language, but the heart of the message is so judgmental & talks about non-Christians as total clods; idiots bumbling around in the dark entirely unaware of true purpose & meaning of life.
We have meaning & purpose; it’s just not the same as yours.
Religion- which you mentioned specifically; not spirituality or faith, but religion- is letting someone else do the difficult work of evaluating what I believe & altering said beliefs as my understanding grows vs being handed a list of what I believe from a group that has benefited from controlling others for centuries.
From my perspective, all meaning is created- none inherent to this earth. To me, that means we all personally construct meaning in relation to others, events, and concepts & do so on an individual level.
Some people look to others for the “answers” and have that meaning filled in by someone else who’s already created it, and some people sit in the challenging, uncomfortable uncertainty & beauty that is creation & develop a deeply personal, nuanced & entirely unique understanding of this reality.
Congratulations, though. I’ve occasionally looked at that path in which you travel with a twinge of envy- it seems like it would be the much more comfortable ride to believe I knew the answers to everything & to believe with certainty I had a grasp on what “is” in such a tangible, fairytale-like form.
@@colechristensen1909And then you go on to do the same thing. Ironic.
Some people believe. Be a tolerant adult and get over yourself. I believe as well and appreciated his appeal to faith and Jesus as a perfect form of love because faith teaches us love isn't a feeling or an emotion but a choice like God makes a choice to love us.
@user-rv9hp6bo3y I'm cool with people believing. I'm not cool with people talking about Jesus during an unrelated subject, especially when it comes with the not so subtle insinuation that "my glass" is/will become empty cuz I don't believe in Jesus. Feels like a little bit of both an insult and an act of adoctrination. Even worse that I was tricked into watching it while I enjoying a video essay about a movie I found interesting.
LOVED the random segway about marriage. could have watched a whole video on that tbh. lately i've been thinking about how the BEST movies all have love stories in them, and that whenever a sequel or remake is shitty and underbaked, they've also watered down or straight removed the romance element from it. (see: chaos walking, indiana jones, die hard, terminator) desperately want to see more romance / genuine love relationships in movies again, but it's like it died with the mid budget film
I read the book I think right before the movie came out. The movie came out the year I met my husband.
I know that I certainly have issues because I'm entralled by Amy and even though I don't condone her actions, a part of me respects and understands it. Years later and my opinion has not changed 😅
She killed a man in cold blood just to feed her agenda. I hope people understand and respect that if you become a victim of some deranged psychopath
I saw it on valentines day 😅
"Years later and my opinion has not changed" so you're admitting you didn't change and grow, didn't seek mental help
kinda weird flex
Ben Affleck really understood the scary side of the story, which is that almost every couple is susceptible to go downhill in the same way that Nick and Amy did. It's not just about who they are, they faced very difficult challenges: relatives passing away, recession, losing their jobs, moving to a different state. They truly wanted to present the best version of themselves to the other, for a while. You get to know a person's colors when hit by adversity, not when everything is fine. But there's only so much that anyone can handle before the negative side of them comes out, and this new different picture of them which is perceived as a lack of honesty made them both feel cheated.
On a different note, the movie reminds me of that Canadian guy who actually "finished" his wife and daughters to be with another woman and he tried to fake it as his wife just running away with the kids out of nowhere.
I’m sorry, what was with the random 20 seconds of Christian evangelism in the middle of this video 😂 other than that I like this analysis haha
I've been looking for someone's comment on this. It took me right out of the video. It was so out of place I immediately stopped the video to see if anyone else was thrown off too
Same, thought that was very weird!!
That 20 seconds made me dislike the video
Oh my god I was hoping someone else noticed that. Like wtf happened there? 😂
As a believer myself I very much appreciated what he did. It wasn't random, faith relates directly to love and how we are to treat others.
I'll never understand people making excuses for narcissists ...unless they're narcissists themselves
You are so good at this! This is definitely what you should be doing. One of the most well-thought-out analysis I’ve heard of a movie. Bravo👏 Keep it up. There are so many movies that I would love to hear you critique/analyze. You deserve millions of followers.
I sincerely appreciate that comment, means a lot!
AMY THEY COULD NEVER MAKE ME HATE YOU 🫶✊🫶
💀
I don’t feel bad for anyone who has cheated on their partner not even in the slightest. Do you deserve to be unalived? No, but anything else you brought it on yourself.
True
Love your voice. Perfect for analysis videos like these 👌
first time hearing that, thank you!
I love how they’re both narcissistic psychopaths but in different ways
They're not tho
@@FencingMessiah they are x
Where is the proof in the story that Nick is a narcissistic psychopath? And wouldn't his sister know that about him
@@FencingMessiah wym where’s the proof? It’s the way he’s written, how he treats Amy and the public too, even before she did anything bad
@@sarar7363 being a layabout playing videogames and not living up to the expectations set by your wife is not narcissistic or sociopathic
I noticed Amy was physically emulating Nick's sister when she was dying her hair to brown and wearing black-rimmed glasses.
Ohhhhhh, I never caught that before. Read the book countless times and seen the movie at least 10 times. Brilliant insight.
18:03 unexpected and sudden religion
Pls let it be a joke fr
I love how uncomfortable it makes people!
Literally scared me LOL
Every actor need a role of a lifetime, Amy Dunne is that role for Rosamund Pike. After years being typecast, it's brilliant how she finally found a movie where she could flex her acting range even more
love her in i care a lot too! one thing abou rosamund pike is that she knows how to play a sociopath!
I agree that love is a choice. Love is action, not just a feeling. I’ve been married for 16 years now and it’s been hard but it’s also been very rewarding. It’s taken a lot of intentional work and communication but even through great disappointment love can grow with time, and love can grow with the necessary incremental personal development and selflessness.
You know, I never truly thought about how much of an impact the "Amazing Amy" books had on Amy. Sure, I realized that it affected her on the surface level but I didn't conceptualize how deeply it impacted every aspect of her life.
4:33 also interesting that she focuses mainly on the “most socially humiliating way possible” because the loss of one’s public image is what she perceives as the worst situation imaginable. She doesn’t care what’s real - if she can convince other people of it then it may as well be the truth. If she ever lost control of the narrative of her own perfection that’s almost worse than death.
Correction: it IS worse than death, she was fully going to kill herself in order to complete nicks ruination and protect her image so no one could ever speak ill of her - because she was a pregnant martyr, murdered by her cheating abusive husband, and also because there’d be almost no one left who knew how twisted and calculated she really was.
You're talented in constructing your thesis. I was really emerged in the character exploration. Hope you keep on improving the quality of the video
and keep them coming, its rare finding a decent exploration of character arcs in film or series this was just my jam
That means a lot, thank you. Being at college makes it difficult to create as many videos as I'd like to, but I'm working on the next!
@@sder even better look what that other person ended up being who invented FB
@@sder do u take requests for what shows or movies ?
Insightful and objective, I enjoyed your deep dive into this movie one of my all time faves. PLEASE keep them coming 💯💯💯💯
Watch this at least once a year, v badass character
I was watching this at 3 in the morning totally mesmerised by the analysis, I didnt expect it to turn into a message faith and why faith is essential to love but it did and it was wonderful. Thanks for sharing this. 🙏
Comments like these mean a lot, thanks!
@@sder I've seen some comments that have mocked you for including your faith in this but I very much appreciated it because I understand exactly where you were coming from. I hope in future you won't be afraid to keep professing how your faith helps you understand things and even when people disagree remember that there are people in your audience who understand appreciate it. God bless 🙏
“Love is what remains, when being in love fades away.” (Captain Corelli’s Mandolin)
Incredible quote
Choosing to love helps if you can focus the unique greatness of your spouse. Each person has such qualities.
26:08 I think it's important to acknowledge that she DOES apply some introspection, and changes herself (*not* just those around her), but not in a healthy way. It's inherently BECAUSE she's narcissistic, and perfectly moulds herself into whatever the situation demands, that she expects that in the people in her life to do so as well. If you can't unconditionally love yourself, how could you possibly extend that to others?
Well done great breakdown.
I appreciate it!
Fantastic break down of this story!