*JUMP IN ON THE CONVERSATION! Do you like or hate playing to click tracks on stage or in church? I didn't hold back on my own thoughts on the matter* 😏
I would never see me using a click track live. A few things to add, I play extreme metal and grindcore primarily. 200+ BPM, blast beats, double bass, technical playing at blistering speed. I love jazz, funk , hip hop, big band, rasta, jungle, industrial etc.... BEATS. If I am in a project where I am playing beats, not going wild at blistering speeds start to finish, I would consider using a click track. Example: I love Ska. And if I had the chance to play in a ska band I totally would. And I could see myself using a click live. Might not need one yet some of those Ska bands have over 10 Musicians on stage. For me that is a lot of potential disasters of people getting off time. Everyone spread out on the stage, no proper monitoring for all, some less experienced musicians etc. Drummer gots to keep everyone in check. Yet it could kill the vibe or sound, impact etc of having a perfect click going on in the drummer. Is it robotic drumming? Soul less drumming? Hard to say. Some of my favorite bands and musicians do not use a click at all. They just have it locked in and know what THEY WANT. How they want the music to project to the audience, listener and themselves. You being a drummer in a church band, I imagine there are many elements to a live performance, as you mentioned a bit. That is a lot of cogs in the gears to work together well. But they got BEATDOWN BROWN backing everyone up. WIN. Sorry for the long post, I am drinking coffee and working on laptop. Thanks, peace, love, Death Metal!
Hate them!! Just give me a bass player with feel and get the hell out of the way. Live click tracks are a C block to a live groove. Drummers don't just play in time, we are time........your videos rock, i've been drumming for 40+ years and my 14yr old son is juat starting out. I'ml so grateful that he has a resource in your channel that beats the crap out of playing along to an over dubbed cassette tape and reading modern drummer. You're straght up way of breaking things down is a blessing. Thank you!!
I play in a big band and a marching band. In the big band I do both. We have a show where we do party music, pop, rock, soul, funk grooves.n feel that it's important to keep the time and groove locked in. Also I try to make the click my friend and kind of play around it and to make it groove with it. Now, I'm the only one hearing the click in my IEM's, so the rest of the band has to listen to the drums. I've got a lot cred from the others in the band on good tempo and steady groove and it feels nice to controll 20 people that way. We also have the audience dancing so good and steady time is important. in other situations I don't use click. I've tried to use a click in consert situations with my marching band, but that doesn't work. but then again we have a conductor. Out in the street we play show music wih swing, disco, samba etc grooves and the tunes have different tempos. I have a list of songs that we with the tempo on my snare, but I don't have anywhere to put a metronome, so in this case I have to sing a part of the song to myself to get the tempo right. Also we have baton twirlers in front of the band, so for their sake it needs to be right as well.
Great advise/ conversation regarding playing with a click! I started playing in a pop punk covers band this year, but I think the tempos are all over the place not just from me but also from our guitarists sometimes! Have you ever used a click in band rehearsals? If so what is the best way to go about this? Click and headphones? I think it would really improve my band me included!
I've played in church's with and without. I like it for the accountability. But people who are really practicing and giving an honest effort before the worship encounter, it's not needed. I like how engaged you have to be w/o. It's like having a conversation with friends. It's all feel.
Couldn’t agree more. I’m old school as well!. Having an internal tempo, or being a “human metronome” is what a drummer’s supposed to be. At times the drummer will need to move with the other musicians on stage. Great video Rob!
I started using click on stage and even rehearsals couple years ago and here is why. Playing on time has always been my problem and as a hired musician I want to make sure the tempo is right and always the same. Playing without a click didn’t teach me to play in time. It had an opposite effect, I got used to speed up and slow down. Now I consider playing to a click as a practice and yes it feels safe knowing that the tempo is right
This is a good topic . There is no right or wrong answer . I think timing is one of the most important things about being a drummer . I practice with a metronome. To develop timing and a inner clock. A hate playing live with a click track. I think it takes away from our ability to improv. And it personally distracts me sometimes. Thanks for this discussion Rob you are the man!!!
Yeah I am with ya. It's also a matter of preference: would you prefer a GOOD drummer with GREAT natural timing or a GREAT click track drummer that plays like a robot? Pretty deep yo. 22 years of drumming has made me confident in my skills and inner clock, as you mentioned. Cheers man.
As a sound engineer I have experienced some positive and negative situations where click tracks have been utilized. One experience with was with an artist who used a hand clap that played thru the PA as a “click”. It elevated the funk of the show when the band was cued to drop out while the clap kept the time until the band was cued back in. Also a Latin band once used a clave programmed beat loop the same way. I think if a ‘click’ is needed for sync reasons, an effort should be made to use a clap or shaker percussion loop instead. Maybe an arpeggiated chord progression loop that can be used instead of a boring click sounding click that’s only in the drummers ear. Sent out for all to hear sense it’s everyone in the bands job to keep time.
I like the idea of a natural percussive sound - clap or shaker etc - but really dislike the digital click. On live gigs, for me, I prefer the flow of the drummer - clicks induce a bit of panic somehow.
I’ve found playing at home I can keep time relatively easy but once playing with others that aren’t as concerned with tempo I’ve noticed I’m constantly having to adjust my playing to bring everyone back to the original tempo. I’ve started using a click during rehearsal to help everyone (especially myself) identify which parts want to speed up or slow down. Just being aware of what spots I need to watch out for or even what kinds of parts make me want to speed up or slow down, helps me keep the tempo steady during a live show without a click. More than that, I’m figuring out what kind of stuff I need to spend some more time on with a click. Thanks for your thoughts Rob. You’ve been a huge help and influence in my drum journey. Thank you for all you do!
I played without one for years, and hated it when I had to start when I started playing at a bigger church. It made my finished product so much more polished and I'm a better drummer for it. So now if there isn't one, I'm still light years ahead of where I used to be. No matter how long you've played, it's still natural to speed up as the song gets louder and builds. I still hate hearing it but I think it's worth it.
Great channel Rob. Keys player here. I’m in the middle of adding canned tracks for a band but in our particular case, we simply don’t have a large selection of secondary keys players, or at least ones who are willing to put forth the homework to nail their parts. I’ve gone my entire life so far without playing to a click. It find it fascinating that with all the technology out there and the rapid advancements in AI and other things that nobody has yet invented a box that will sync to the drummer, rather than the other way around. Back in the 80’s there was a device called the Russian Dragon which would kind of do that. The guy who invents that tool and it works reliably will retire a very wealthy man.
You have the perfectly balanced view of this topic. It's obvious....you've been there and done that. For me, as a full time recording engineer and drummer.....there are only rare occasions (in Nashville) where we don't record with a click and loop. Also, as you mentioned, most production shows use stems and/or video sync.....so the click is required. Same in church, climb in the cage and fire the click. I won't argue for or against a click, that's just the reality of playing drums these days. It's fun when it's not there too....if you're playing with great players. While we're talking about click, might as well talk about configuring an Ableton Live document. That's usually in the drummers hands too. :)
Hi Rob, Keys player and music director here. Thanks for bringing up a really interesting topic. I totally agree with your comments on click tracks. What I’ve discovered in my little experience is that the decision sometimes boils down to circumstances you cannot change. Those that sticks out the most is the quality of the band/choir, the size of the occasion and even the acoustics of the hall/venue. Overall, I tend to gravitate towards it for the reasons of: Discipline & Background Dynamics. So for example I don’t just use a clicktrack for the sake of it. There will most definitely be other sounds layered with it to bring in the effect/feel/dynamic required for that song. If I had the numbers to replace those elements in person, I’d definitely prefer humans to a machine but I think there’s a loss on both sides if you don’t have the human replacements and also do without the backing track. I’m not sure if I’ve taken the discourse from click track to backing track now but this is how I’m seeing it from a musician point of view.
Hi Rob coincidence you have raised this question, have just watched Tony Coleman (BB King) talking about the same thing as he says drumming is NOT about beats BPM its about FPM (feel).Your job as a drummer in a live situation is to move the people. The only click he ever heard was a gun being cocked if you weren't doing your Job right.. All you drummers out there do yourself a favor and go and look up the youtube clip of him on Drumeo on his views on this subject. Love your work Rob
Spot on, brother. As a fellow drummer, I’ve left a few bands who were so concerned with perfection, that the fun was gone. Once that happens, it becomes “work” and that’s not why I play. You hit it right on the head when you said “no one in the audience cares” if the tempo is pushed and pulled around. They really don’t. Sure...maybe if there are a few musicians in the crown, they might hear it. But 99% don’t. And that’s what needs to be understood to keep the fun in the performance. Great video, brother!! You always give us “little guys” something new to think about or try. Love you, man!🤘🏻🤘🏻
Did you see Rick Beato's video where he puts John Bonham through Beat Detective and utterly kills the feels? He shows how some true classic recordings had tempos that swung, and pushed and pulled. You can't 'hear' it, as such, but you definitely feel it.
That video was depressing, man. Just left me hoping that this whole thing is cyclical and that we’ll eventually get back to letting musicians be musicians. Most pop records these days are made by producers. Same three morons “writing” hits for everybody.
@@RobBeatdownBrown I totally agree. In my more optimistic moments it feels like more, and younger, people are getting into making real music, or at least getting educated about what real music is and why the Human element is so essential. You're doing your part on the education side, and more power to you!
I play with a click and/or backing track/loop all the time on my worship gig, and always in the studio when tracking, and almost always when practicing. HOWEVER, I play a lot of jazz, and that's a NO CLICK ZONE! Time has to be able to breathe. On my rock gig, I have asked the leader if he would consider going to an in-ear monitoring system and using a click, but no go. The nice part of not having it is that if the guitarist starts the tune off too slow or too fast, I can rectify it easily.
really good question. Without a click listening and reacting to my buddies (mainly guitar plys) we normally speed up while a song and during the concert....... plyng with the click needs more concentration to the time and less freedom for fooling and joking around, gives a little bit more seriousness to the whole thing. It begins to get relaxed and (a lot of) more fun if everybody in the band starts to really FEEL the leadership of the time and stops to fight or struggle. If this moment appears its getting great! And - most positive - after playing now for 5 YEARS every gig with click my timing REALLY got A LOT better and my playing has got so much more disciplined now, nice development ............
I hated it at first, but as I got more comfortable using it, I actually love it now. However, as you said, I love the human element that comes from playing without one. I've actually played with bands live that didn't allow a click track because they said, they didn't allow the music to breathe. As far as a metronome goes, I have always enjoyed playing along with one.
I agree with Mr.brown I am in projects that use both clicks live and others don’t . For the bands with backing tracks it’s obvious I have to . The others have a human element and I just try to keep it reigned in .
For us it's not just about staying together, but our tracks control lyrics, videos and also light cues. Plus, we're a smaller band, with plans to grow and add musicisns of course, so having the tracks gives us a bigger sound until we can get the musicians.
I'm with you Rob, I understand and will use one if necessary but I like the flow of the natural feel. I feel as very experienced drummer that I have pretty darn good time anyway!!! In case people dont really know what it sounds like or feels like there is a video on here with a comparison of Steven Adler and Matt Sorum from Guns and Roses. Matt Sorum being the more "polished" drummer. You can really hear and feel the difference.
I use both click track and metronome live for almost all the gigs I do! I use the click to play super steady time but only I hear it! The click tracks are used when there is a backing track of any kind! I have been doing this for a long time and have grown used to it. So I have no problem playing with click/metronome live. Keeps Everything tight!
Great topic... I’ve played in situations that used backing tracks because 1 consistency there was never an issue with the tempo. and 2 the track was playing parts that couldn’t be covered by the players on stage. I found that from performance to performance how the tempo may have seemed faster or slower. Or one of the other members would question is that the right tempo? Low and behold the machine is not going to deviate from the time and you can confidently know it’s not you. I presently work with a band that has a lead singer (who doesn’t play an instrument) this group doesn’t use a click. We don’t use a set list either, the singer calls out the next song just before the one we’re playing is ending.. This transition is to be instant, no real break between songs to think about the tempo. So it’s always a guess as to where the tempo is going to be for the next song. I may think it’s just a bit slower than the song we’re presently playing but the singer may think it’s a lot slower than what I think. It does get frustrating because trying to guess. I’ve tried to get a click involved but the singer says he doesn’t want to locked into that. One example, I programmed a simple percussion loop to use on a song. We rehearsed with it set the tempo. Which I knew wasn’t going to be right but I put it were he said he wanted it. All good right. Well that night the dance floor is packed the energy is up and he calls the “song”. I set the loop hit start and the tempo isn’t even close to were he thought it was going to be. He turns and says in a panic “that’s not right it’s to slow “ it was were we agreed to set it earlier though. He argued saying that the machine played the wrong tempo. All I could say is no the loop is not at fault it’s still at 127bpm. I just said your human I’m human. Playing with a click or track which ever, is good because of consistency it takes the pressure off because of the human factor. Everyone has to have solid time in a band if your not going to use a time reference. Because I’m not using one at the moment I have to be able to go with the flow, we’ve agreed that the tempo is going to change possibly from night to night depending on how the vibe is. The person singing has to feel comfortable they’re the one that most everyone is paying attention to. So i watch them to see if there giving any signals to speed it up or slow it down. It’s not the most comfortable thing but it’s what is working for us.
In a church setting I like to have the click going with everyone because timing becomes a factor I don't really have to worry about. As for like jazz groups or less formal settings, I'd ditch the click and let the band control itself how it feels
Thank you for sharing another lesson and you're correct about the audience, they rarely know what the musicians are thinking while they are performing. The only ones that would notice are the musicians in the audience listening.
And those musician audience members are likely a VERY small % of the crowd. Often times, I have to remind myself to stop being so critical and just enjoy.
Great convo, Rob! I’m a seasoned veteran of the Chicago music scene. I’ve only had a couple of tribute projects that required tracks with a click. I’ve been part of far more projects and bands that did not require them. I’ve always been comfortable playing to a click, and I’ve found that there have been live situations that were helped tremendously when I played to a click in order to keep a band steady. There’s nothing worse for me that feeling like the band is in the pocket, only to listen to a video or recording of a show and realize that a lot of songs were consistently rushed. I have found that in this day and age, the majority of musicians who just want to make some money performing tend NOT to listen well and lock in with a solid drummer, who memorizes tempos. So, in my opinion, like you.... there are valid points for both sides of the discussion. Your video on how to run tracks live is also fantastic! Love your videos, man! Thanks again JK 🥁
I'm with you Rob. I'm an OG where all the bands I came up to (Dave Matthews Band being a big influence on my playing and loving music) and hard rock/metal bands like Tool and Metallica, it didn't seem to me like they were playing to a click. I think there's something unique and special to a live performance where there is a unique relationship between the musicians, and then musicians to the audience. I don't even like hearing tracks that have some kind of music playing that someone on stage isn't actively creating. My church is using clicks and tracks, and I'm having to get used to them. I get the rationale. But I also feel like I am losing the relational aspect to the performance and my connection to the other musicians when playing to the click. It doesn't feel organic to me. I never have understood the idea that the performance has to be perfect, or exactly like a recording. If I want to hear a recording, I'll listen to the recording. Live, I want to see what each of the musicians bring to the table. And as a Christian, I believe that we are supposed to be playing to our best and with excellence - but that doesn't mean perfection. That's a big difference for me. Strive for the best, but God doesn't expect us to be perfect, even in our musicianship. He wants to connect with us, and that's a relationship, not something that is programmed. So I definitely share your sentiment on them. I can learn to work with them, but it's not my ideal. My new vision for whenever I form my own band is that we'll buck the trend and not use clicks or music tracks at all in our performance. Practice? Yes! Recording? Absolutely! But live? Nope.
Our praise team started using a click track in the in ear monitor system a little more than a year ago. As you say it was to help some of the weaker players with the timing. Also it ended the question of weather I was going to count us in or the worship leader was going to do it. Another bonus is no one has to say or play an intro count in. At first it was supper annoying and distracting but like most things it has become easier with practice. Our worship leader does have the sense to kill the track if it is not adding to the song. In those times when the emotion of a song wants to push us faster we just jump out. We have been using electric drums for a long time so I have always had the ability to have a click in my ears to be able to start a song on tempo. A draw back that I see is now we aren't listening to each other as much al the time as we are listening to the click.
Most people don't start playing drums in studios but more so in live situations be loose jam sessions or on gigs. And to strap a click on a beginner drummer has the potential to do more harm than good - meaning they become too reliant on clicks than in live situations where, most cases if not all, don't use clicks. I will always remember a statement by the great Omar Hakim regarding time...it needs to be established "internally" vs. externally. In other words it needs to be like an internal clock that's felt more than heard. I agree with you that they do have there rightful places (studio work, personal practice, rudiments etc.) but not in live situations where the human aspects are driven by feel/mood of musicians as well as how an audience can influence the excitement musicians feed off of. Yep, I use a click but only in environments mention above and not live playing. I once played with a group that were addicted to clicks just for sake of bringing up an argument with drummers that they were 2 - 3 bpm slow or fast! Although I was on it I chose not to continue. At that point, I excused myself out the exit door...lol. My take. Thanks for bringing up a topic of many opinions.
I play to a click and tracks live a lot, and love aspects of it, such as there is no question as to whether the song is too fast or too slow, and is a necessity as we sync to video. I play around the click, by playing behind, right on it, and ahead of the click depending on what part of a song we're in. It can be a huge challenge if there's a push and pull of time with the various band mates, but fortunately for me, the players I work with have great time. It hasn't always been this way and trying to get people to play in time with you can be like herding cats! It has made my ability to be "liquid" with the time and not be so rigid, and/or panic if the time slips away for some reason. Of course I prefer to not play live with it, but it's a necessary tool in some cases and has sharpened my ability to have more solid and fluid time.
Heard a great comment some time back on playing with a click by Steve Gadd..he said something along the lines of : don't fight the click ...treat it as if there is a percussionist next to you playing a clave or a cowbell..
This is one of the most important videos you have posted..100 percent agree with everything you just said..click track equal dehumaniser.. metronome when practicing..but not always.the clock needs to operate without aids as well..brilliant video..did Mozart or Beethoven orchestra use a click track...nuff said 😁😁
Depends on the music and context (so agree with you about this) - I practice with one and I use one on-stage for the first 4 measures or so of the playlist to kick us off in the rehearsed tempo (more for the benefit of the soloists than me). I play music where letting time speed up and slow down is part of the feel - intensity and surrender. "Good time is part of the job...internal meter" couldn't agree more!! Some music the bass carries time through passages and my job as a drummer is to primarily colour and drive the emotional intensity - to drive the other musos to crescendo, control ritard with signals
👍🏼 You’re the king brother! “..com’mon I’m Beatdown Brown!” 😂 Like you, I’m an “OG”, and for years tried the click on stage, and had to stop using them. Not that I couldn’t, but most importantly, it takes out the “human element” that music MUST HAVE! It’s not from a robot, it’s from people. Musicians! Cheers brother. 👍🏼🇨🇦
True- yet this isn't helpful for drumming, because heartbeat varies by activity...thus a more physically involved part would inadvertantly increase your tempo; avoiding thus is the whole point of a click. 👍
Everything you said is Valid. Just to hear a student Say his band Fights over tempos on stage doing covers. Only Practice maybe once a Month. They're telling him to use a click. i asked Wheres the reference of tempo any way? I have Played with a Click on stage and all that. But one must Practice together. Right on Rob Brown, you rock.
Very interesting topic Rob! One that has been playing on my mind recently. I play to a click live and I think I put it down to not trusting my ability to not speed up / slow down beyond acceptable margins (whatever that is) in a song. We did a demo a while back and I didn’t play to click, it’s a full on song that builds to the end and I sped up by almost 10 bpm from start to finish. It’s haunted me somewhat and I don’t want to deviate that much again which I think is partly why I always play with a click now. I perhaps don’t trust myself. I probably need to practice more and feel more confident. Back in the day I never played live to a click. Keep up the good work Rob!
It ensures you count the song is counted in at the correct temp....that stops the phrase..."I think that tune was a little fast "..lol....the tempo is what the original recording was played at....no guess work.
I've been drumming for 24 years now, 22 of those almost totally ignorant of metronomes/click tracks. This is precisely due to me spending almost this entire span playing in bands, from the week i got my first kit at age 13 (I did take lessons for a year at age 14 but didn't go back after a broken bone hiatus, thus missing feeling WHY rudiments and fundamentals matter and forming healthy practice habits. I learned to be competent for sure, especially band wise, but only recently did I mature to the point where I truly dived into DRUMMING, learning my craft in depth, focusing on quantifiable progress, accurate performance, sound technique, and the gear best for me. You know, all the stuff that really makes up the nuts and bolts for drum lovers. I kind of stayed at the surface for years. Playing to a metronome app at first showed me how awfully inconsistent I was. FF a year or two, and my band is approaching turn on a dime tightness to the click tracks I craft for our individual songs, and my techniques, stamina, and overall ability have been exponentially improving. Discovering what 'practice smarter not harder' means has developed in me, and thus I've tangibly improved more in
When you have to play along with additional voices triggered from a computer or keyboard (eg industrial rock, electro pop, etc), the click track is a must.
It’s definitely necessary in certain genres. I can’t hate on backing tracks in every situation. My favourite band on the planet is Depeche Mode. Saw them twice last year and the shows were incredible. And they’re running click and all KINDS of tracks up there. The other side to it, of course, is that Never Let Me Down will sound pretty much the same every single night. But it’s Depeche Mode, so who cares!
MASTER 🙌🙌🙌 I am always concerded about mantaining the exact tempo through all the song...you are absolutely true...nobody cares if we play +/- 3 or 4 bpms out of time....very good comparison between time and heart beat....
If there a sequencer, or quantized loops in the song, it’s going to be sloppy without a click for the drummer. A good drummer can still push and pull the tempo, even with a click. (They just need to resolve the tempo back to the original. Cymbals are good for covering that shortened measure; if you sped up.) Also, you can anticipate a tempo change and write a tempo map for the click. So, Rob your points aren’t valid in a lot of different music types. In my experience, drummers usually say they don’t like click tracks because they can’t play along with them.
Practicing to a metronome to develop "relative perfect time" is a great skill to hone. When playing in worship, with all different skill levels, sometimes a click is also crucial in order that other band members can stay on time. Especially when the pocket drops out from behind a choir/lead instrument. I personally hated working with clicks at first, and I took it as a personal "slight" against my ability to keep the band and flow going, after burying the metronome. After rehearsing many times with individuals that have poor time, I see the benefit! We use P-16s and in-ears, and every band member is listening to the click. So after awhile, I realised the positive aspects of using the click to keep those who are "time challenged" on course. Lol Worship is a special kind of "difficult", it's simple, but has to be done perfect to sound right and lead the congregation. When playing gigs that have a lot of give and take, call and response, flow, rushing and dragging, etc., I feel the click can ruin the feel of certain players and the general "conversation". I will say, after playing week after week with different skill sets and relative perfect times (we have a rotation at our church, so no 1 band is ever the same), I can see the benefit! However, that doesn't mean it can't still be "annoying" or a skill that doesn't need special attention to develop. I don't use it much for my own personal benefit any longer, or when playing tunes I know well. We all know that really good players, who play with the click often, make it so the click "disappears" into the background. Great topic, and distinguishing between practicing for personal relative perfect time vs. playing live on a gig with a click track!
Hey Rob great drum channel! I've played to clicks for years due to having backing tracks in some of the bands. It's an interesting question, sometimes you run into band where you have another player who constantly complains about the tempo but they themselves can't even play to a metronome, I'm still surprised how many musicians of other instruments today still do not dedicate a portion of their practice regiment to developing this skill. Drummers will always take the blame for tempo problems in any band, sometimes rightfully so and sometimes not. If you play with good solid musicians it makes our job a whole lot easier, but that is not always the case.
Love this topic, i think it depends alot on the style, you are on a blues gig, or jazz or New Orleans feel type of gig, i would say no...but for modern pop stuff? I think its better, because lets face it, a lot of that type of music was recorded on the grid, and its important to stay true to the style of music that you are performing. But at the end of the day, you have to be good at both, with or without.
I agree with everything you said about click tracks brother. There is a time and a place for it. However, it definitely does take away the drummer's interaction with the rest of band and puts us on an island.
I wholeheartedly agree for exactly the same reasons. I played in a djent band and not only was trying to sort it all out in practice a nightmare (we didn't have money for anyone to have ears apart from me) but it completely just sucks you out of the room. Yes, there were gigs where songs were ridiculously fast, but we learned from that and adjusted. Especially for that type of music people think its necessary. It's not if your tight, and people would comment on how tight we were without it. I know you like tesseract, if you ever go see them live you'll see they all are on click tracks and guess what, the music may be executed perfectly but their stage presence sucks. It's so odd
Perfectly stated. I feel the same way. Started using it in church because the other musicians kept fighting me on tempo. I solved it by making us play to a click. Sure showed them that it wasn’t just me struggling to keep it together. But I agree on feeling not as natural and emotional. So I see the good and bad from it as well.
playing to the click is just reference. You can play behind on top of the beat now that EVERYONE knows where that is! OH, this also forces people to use in ear monitors instead of wedges. Yet another positive side effect. I've been playing drums in church for 40 years, only the last 15 or so with IEMs. My hearing is forever damaged...
Must be able to play to a click/metronome if its there/required? Yes. Must be able to hold down the groove and carry on if its not there? Yes. All musicians should learn to have good internal meter.
I've been using tracks for about 12 yrs....very used to it live and stops any arguments about tempos considering going back to playing with my own clock....
Hey Rob. Apart from the fact that at some stage (ho ho) it is just going to be what's necessary to get the job done, I think the most important thing you highlighted was the fact that nobody in the audience gives a shit about tempo (within reason) and by extension, reminds us to ask ourselves exactly who is it that we're playing our music for, and indeed why. One hopes we all answer that it is to entertain and uplift others (and ourselves), and not a masturbatory ego-fest where the fact that the 9th 16th of the third bar was fractionally late/early thus rendering the bass player's life entirely ruined forever and a crime never to be forgiven. "Time is the responsibility of every musician in the band." - quote taken from page 1 of the teaching notes I received from the legendary Bob Armstrong.
Ooh, great topic! Firstly, I don't mind click tracks cos they're a sweet guide and they also help prepare you for the studio. I think it depends on what is necessary for the music and band that you're playing with. If you have pre-set synths that you wanna have playing out the PA and you have no synth player then you kinda need a click (like my band VNTE) or if you have an immaculate visual/stage/whatever show pre-programmed. But if otherwise playing natural is dope and is great for the vibe and energy, sometimes some parts sound better played with a "fluctuating timing". Also my church has not click which is really fun and a challenge when the one leader who has terrible timing is leading and you've really got to listen and work with em! Finally, having the gear to bring to a gig for the backing track/click can be quite hefty and a pain in the arse...
Couldn’t agree more, Rob! Musicians should be ABLE to follow a click, but shouldn’t NEED it. One huge reason I won’t put my band on a click is that I like to keep the music flowing from song to song, and if we had to stop and get a count-in from a click every time it would kill the momentum.
I want to start. I don’t know how to go about it. Where do I need to start? What am I looking for? How do you use it? Are they used with ear buds/headphones? Fill me in please. Which one is the best to buy?
I personally think that click tracks are really convenient for specific types of genres live. Examples would be subgenres of metal where the music gotta sit really tight, also genres where you would implement some type of electronic sounds to the mix which wouldn't sound complete without those specific sounds live. Otherwise, the click tracks will just make the band sound soulless and the overall tightness and chemistry between the band members would just disappear.
For me personally one thing works quite well, which I heard from Shanon Forrest (Toto) in an interview. He has a click running, but only for the first 10 or 12 bars of the song and than in stops. This method helps me to find the pocket (I am not a pro and I must admit I get pretty excited when I have to play live) BUT I am not tied to the click the whole song .
If I were to use one voluntarily, that’d be how. Just for reference. Once the ball is in the air, just float it. A little flux in BPM is OK. Nobody’s gonna walk out on your show because they think that one song was a bit too fast
@@RobBeatdownBrown Exactly, i sometimes use a Rhythm Watch live on some songs just to get the correct bpm going. ( i just make a note on my set list before the gig and dial it in before the song starts) It has a live feature that plays 2 bars of click then shuts off, gets me in the bpm ball park on songs that i'm not totally familiar with and still allows the groove to breath and move a little after it shuts off depending on how the band is feeling the song on any particular gig. On songs that i've been playing for the past 40 something years there are no worries, just jump right in with a count, it's usually close. Whatever keeps me relaxed and grooving with good time is what matters. I've found the RW to be helpful. No endorsement, just a tool i've found that works for me.......Thank you for your videos, they are great and i appreciate all the hard work you have put into them! Cheers!
Rob, I'm right there with you. I'm a ROG! However, since I am still playing, at times I am forced to play with the click. i.e. studio, Church, etc. Unfortunately we have a boat load of musicians that only know how to interact with a click, not other musicians. Back in the day, playing longer or shorter versions of a song was common. If it was going well, milk it. If not, cut it and go on. :) I understand that using backing tracks allows for reduced personnel. But the result isn't really live music. I would far rather play and hear minimal acoustic arrangements with live musicians than all the overproduced surround sound. Also, I sing (while playing drums) and remember the day not so long ago that all lyrics were memorized. Now too reliant on the iPad. However, at my age maybe this is the only hope now. :)
I have no preference either way. I can play to clicks and sequences through my IEM's and do exactly that in my band on certain songs. I am pretty new to the concept, but am doing ok. It also gives me quite a good feeling knowing I can do it. My bandmates sometimes start heading off at a fast pace, but I have to concentrate and stay locked to the click and the other guys have to reign it in as I am the only one with the click. They have to lock onto me.
Great video. In my opinion playing with a click live makes everything feel rigid. However, I feel that they can be necessary, at least for a time. For instance, we don’t use one at my church but at times I almost wish we did. Reason being is that everyone’s timing is not that great, which makes my job harder. Everyone is constantly speeding up or slowing down (and I’m not talking about only by a few bpm’s). It gets frustrating. So I feel playing with a click for a while could help everyone develop their timing.
I feel this, in my band I really wanted to get everyone on perfect timing. But sometimes on stage its impossible, the singer gets emotional or the guitar gets into his solo.
I am in total agreement with you Ron Brown. Hate click tracks but it's sometimes necessary. Certainly takes away from freedom and much of today's performances are way too orchestrated and sequenced. It's like robots on stage miming.
The only time that I've used a click is during recording. I would not want to use one live because I'm a big believer in on-stage communication between players. A song can ebb and flow a bit and still be great. Great for practicing though.
I agree internal time is lost to most newbies, I play in a track band now and then and we rock but I have to stay in that box and it sux. I also play in a live band w/ horns and I just use a Korg digital visual metronome sweep arm I just watch it once in awhile and see if im draggin or speeding to much I usually am dead on
I don’t mind clicks right up to the point I wanna “hit the gas”.... then I get bummed out. But I see both sides. Solution, just be great at playing with and without a click.
Totally agree for the live music component. Having a click in my ear during church performances where its just a band playing really bothers me. Totally kills the feel for me cause I feel like I'm just playing music to a click but not really getting to enjoy what I'm playing or hearing from the other musicians. Definitely need it on recording to make sure the tempo is rock solid for everyone and that everyone's on the same page, but otherwise I'd rather just enjoy playing music.
@@AngusMac1987 There's actually a great video called "HOW WOULD BONHAM SOUND TODAY? (Quantized)" by Rick Beato that talks about a somewhat related topic. Worth a watch.
Great vid Rob. On some of our songs we play with sequenced parts, so it is imperative. However if we are just playing a normal song then I count if off and set the tempo. I am new to backing tracks and sequences, but am certainly getting to grips with it to the point where I am reasonably confident now. Before this however I have spent 30 years without them. It is just a new tool in my box now.
I played to a click track in rehearsal and live performance from 1995 to 2013. I didn't mind it but in retrospect would have preferred not to use it. My band had a lot of sequenced synths and samples going off. It was necessary to have a click track in my ear while drumming. The key for me was to have the click track just barely loud enough to hear in my ear. But I often yearned for some actual free for all jam out sessions where we could improvise live and bounce the tempo's up and down and just have fun. I grew up in the mid 70's and 80's and enjoyed being the primary timekeeper as the drummer for bands. Rob Brown is right with what he speaks about in this video. There used to be a time when the drummer just had to know what a 120 bpm tempo was or 90bpm or whatever. Rock music these days sounds too mechanical, quantized out in the studio and just sterile. That's my opinion on playing with a click track live, etc...
STERILE, man. Seriously. I listen to modern pop these days and feel nothing whatsoever. Sonically perfect. Completely soulless. Every tune on any billboard chart is completely forgettable after a few weeks. Nobody’s writing Roxanne anymore.
This!! You should have it in your earpiece as a musician but I should never hear it as listener. I have come to hate it with a passion because I lived with someone that used it as an audible instrument...it becomes torture to the ear and makes the music unpalatable.
Never had the opportunity to, but would love it. Once played with a pre-made beat, but barely supplemented anything over it (instrumentation didn’t really call for much more than what was played on the track, so I don’t really think it counts). I would love to play with a band that is able to play with an in-ear-metronome-using drummer.
For years of playing without a click or metronome, i hate playing with one. Granted in studio time i understand it. Its just at this time i have a hard time cause i'm part of that old school way. Where you devolpe a internal clock and also go by what you feel in the music. I do know i will need to learn how to play to one for the studio. But on stage or practice you don't need it unless the band as whole is off or the drummer.
I played in my church 20 plus years ago & needless to say things are greatly different now. I recently returned to drumming two years ago & it's been fun. I'm not in favor of a click, it takes away from the authenticity & realness of the sound. Mistakes, flaws and all is a part of performing. Trying to obtain perfection with the aid of any kind of click or whatever isn't really a true authentic sound. This is just my view & opinion. I respect those that uses a click or any other device. It's your prerogative. 😊
I use the Tempo app so I don’t have to “pull a tempo out of the air” with some bands I play with. It takes away the debate as to whether the song is at the right tempo. I haven’t done any live playing to a click. I have played to backing tracks which included a simple drum pattern which I played on top of. I always practice to a metronome. If someone offered me a click track gig I would have to shed it to get it right but that’s homework.
Ideally you want to play without a click track and backing tracks. But sometimes you don't have enough people in the band to play everything, so you need backing tracks and to use a looper which doesn't work well without a click track.
I liked using a click track live when it was necessary to play with backing tracks; if there are no backing tracks a click is just another thing to set up so I don't use it. Also, if other players rush/drag while the drummer stays on click it doesn't feel good to the audience.
I did a top 40 country band back in 96, singer made all his own sequences. We played to a click, I didn't mind. the band was killing. If you'd like to check it out BeatDown...I could post a link.
I'm in a metal band (guitarist) and we use clicks because we have backtracks and segues because we dont have key and string players (and for one show, we didnt have a bass player) So long as youre on time anyway, i personally, dont notice it. Ive never used clicks in any other setting though.
As an alternative, have you considered your drummer triggering off those tracks with a electronic pad? If it's just for ambience inbetween songs itd be fine. Obviously the bass thing is fair enough
@@nickpov3y we have considered that as we used to do something similar, but he'd still have to be tethered to the tempo of the sample anyway and since there are quite a few segments within songs, it just makes life way easier and more consistent for us. If it was ONLY segues, it'd be different. There are bands that do stuff like you mentioned, but those bands generally have more stripped down live approaches.
I honestly like it, but it needs to be very well rehearsed, otherwise it kills the vibe. But when all the musicians can play to a click track effortlessly it makes everything feels super solid and it doest bother me, most of the time I don’t even notice it. And I think that is because rehearsals are on small rooms and on stage is a very different scenario, everyone is far from each other, most of the time as a drummer you are waay on the back, and if the monitoring is not on point you cannot hear well to your bandmates, so without a click track everything can feel very disconnected.
It all depends on the song you're playing; some songs need it, other's don't. Personally, I don't prefer playing to a click track, because I'm more focused on the click than enjoying the song being played. Whenever possible, I play without one! Having said that, some songs need them, because there are just too many parts going on at the same time. I've played songs to backing tracks that sound great, and were a big hit with the audience...
The problem I run into with using a click track on stage is that I freelance a lot. Different bands, different tunes, some tunes the same but they approach them at different tempos. Most of the time a guitar player or a vocalist will want to set the tempo so I basically try to fall in as close as possible to where they want the time to be. I thought about using a Tama Rhythm Watch and just use the tap in feature for where they want the tempo but mostly I listen to who counts the tune off and zero in on that count the best I can. It can be frustrating sometimes, no doubt. I also play with bands who don't use any particular set list or pick songs off of 4 or 5 different set lists at random, makes searching for a bpm very tuff especially when the show is moving along at a fast clip or someone from the audience shouts out a request and we bust into the tune quickly. I wouldn't mind using a click but most of the time it's a lot easier using the old internal clock. Any ideas, tips or comments would be greatly appreciated!
Here’s where I stand on the whole thing. I use click tracks most of the time I play (drums mainly, bass secondarily). A lot of times it’s out of necessity, for backing tracks and guitar/keys effects or samples that are tempo dependent (for guitars they can usually tap tempos but for keys depending on the rig it can be a pain in the ass without a click). It also means that I don’t have to worry if I’m showing up to a band I don’t trust/don’t know. I know I’m going to be solid click or no, but this way if someone else’s internal time isn’t great the whole band isn’t suffering as much. On the flip side, if it’s people I know and trust and there’s no tracks, I don’t mind taking it off. I don’t personally get a sense of ‘freedom’ when it’s gone, I don’t really notice any difference in my playing other than the occasional slight drift that just comes with playing. I also understand where you’re coming from Rob. What I absolutely disagree with is people who say they feel restricted by playing with a click, when what they really mean is that they just suck at keeping with it. Now obviously that’s not everyone but it’s a good number. Playing without a click ain’t an excuse to have bad time. If you have bad time, take that click up there with you to keep you steady cause nothing will kill the vibe worse than your time. Then spend your practice time developing strong time until you can kill it with or without a click. Also, you should be able to play on top of, behind, or in front of a click to get the right feeling. I can play laid back 90’s hip hop beats to a click all day and have them still FEEL right, which is what you gotta be able to do. Like I said, I kinda don’t get the disdain for them because I don’t feel limited by them ever, and mostly internalize it so much I hardly notice it, but they can really help pull things together in certain situations.
I had to learn to play with the Metronome early on in my lessons. Had a few task masters who demanded meticulous timing. Then when I branched out and started playing with bands and others it wasn't as big of a deal. UNTIL...my Uncle took me with him to Muscle Shoals studios. I got to meet a few of the Session guys who told me to keep working with the Metronome but to remember it was up to me to stay in the "Pocket". Rocket what seems like 100 years forward and I'm in Nashville. They threw a Click on me. Never dealt with one before but luckily due to my previous experiences I adapted. Don't like them. Like Rob says he understands why, but doesn't mean you gotta like them. Sorry so long.
If all the instruments are live, a click usually isn't necessary. But if anything is recorded rather than live, you need it. I usually use it for playing solo with backing tracks. Of course pyrotechnics and stuff require a click as well, but I hate that kind of stuff.
Solo performances are a different story. Totally get how the aid of a few tracks could elevate your performance. But five, six people on stage shouldn’t need two abelton live rigs to rock a crowd unless your album is produced beyond comprehension, which is the case for a lot of acts these days. Most pop records are made in the control room now with no real need for session players
*JUMP IN ON THE CONVERSATION! Do you like or hate playing to click tracks on stage or in church? I didn't hold back on my own thoughts on the matter* 😏
I would never see me using a click track live. A few things to add, I play extreme metal and grindcore primarily. 200+ BPM, blast beats, double bass, technical playing at blistering speed.
I love jazz, funk , hip hop, big band, rasta, jungle, industrial etc.... BEATS.
If I am in a project where I am playing beats, not going wild at blistering speeds start to finish, I would consider using a click track. Example: I love Ska. And if I had the chance to play in a ska band I totally would. And I could see myself using a click live. Might not need one yet some of those Ska bands have over 10 Musicians on stage. For me that is a lot of potential disasters of people getting off time.
Everyone spread out on the stage, no proper monitoring for all, some less experienced musicians etc. Drummer gots to keep everyone in check. Yet it could kill the vibe or sound, impact etc of having a perfect click going on in the drummer. Is it robotic drumming? Soul less drumming? Hard to say.
Some of my favorite bands and musicians do not use a click at all. They just have it locked in and know what THEY WANT. How they want the music to project to the audience, listener and themselves.
You being a drummer in a church band, I imagine there are many elements to a live performance, as you mentioned a bit. That is a lot of cogs in the gears to work together well.
But they got BEATDOWN BROWN backing everyone up. WIN.
Sorry for the long post, I am drinking coffee and working on laptop.
Thanks, peace, love, Death Metal!
Hate them!! Just give me a bass player with feel and get the hell out of the way. Live click tracks are a C block to a live groove. Drummers don't just play in time, we are time........your videos rock, i've been drumming for 40+ years and my 14yr old son is juat starting out. I'ml so grateful that he has a resource in your channel that beats the crap out of playing along to an over dubbed cassette tape and reading modern drummer. You're straght up way of breaking things down is a blessing. Thank you!!
I play in a big band and a marching band.
In the big band I do both. We have a show where we do party music, pop, rock, soul, funk grooves.n feel that it's important to keep the time and groove locked in. Also I try to make the click my friend and kind of play around it and to make it groove with it. Now, I'm the only one hearing the click in my IEM's, so the rest of the band has to listen to the drums. I've got a lot cred from the others in the band on good tempo and steady groove and it feels nice to controll 20 people that way. We also have the audience dancing so good and steady time is important.
in other situations I don't use click.
I've tried to use a click in consert situations with my marching band, but that doesn't work. but then again we have a conductor.
Out in the street we play show music wih swing, disco, samba etc grooves and the tunes have different tempos. I have a list of songs that we with the tempo on my snare, but I don't have anywhere to put a metronome, so in this case I have to sing a part of the song to myself to get the tempo right. Also we have baton twirlers in front of the band, so for their sake it needs to be right as well.
Great advise/ conversation regarding playing with a click! I started playing in a pop punk covers band this year, but I think the tempos are all over the place not just from me but also from our guitarists sometimes! Have you ever used a click in band rehearsals? If so what is the best way to go about this? Click and headphones? I think it would really improve my band me included!
I've played in church's with and without. I like it for the accountability. But people who are really practicing and giving an honest effort before the worship encounter, it's not needed. I like how engaged you have to be w/o. It's like having a conversation with friends. It's all feel.
Couldn’t agree more. I’m old school as well!. Having an internal tempo, or being a “human metronome” is what a drummer’s supposed to be. At times the drummer will need to move with the other musicians on stage.
Great video Rob!
I started using click on stage and even rehearsals couple years ago and here is why. Playing on time has always been my problem and as a hired musician I want to make sure the tempo is right and always the same. Playing without a click didn’t teach me to play in time. It had an opposite effect, I got used to speed up and slow down. Now I consider playing to a click as a practice and yes it feels safe knowing that the tempo is right
Very well explained!! The human element is what makes live music so great!!
This is a good topic . There is no right or wrong answer . I think timing is one of the most important things about being a drummer . I practice with a metronome. To develop timing and a inner clock. A hate playing live with a click track. I think it takes away from our ability to improv. And it personally distracts me sometimes. Thanks for this discussion Rob you are the man!!!
Yeah I am with ya. It's also a matter of preference: would you prefer a GOOD drummer with GREAT natural timing or a GREAT click track drummer that plays like a robot? Pretty deep yo. 22 years of drumming has made me confident in my skills and inner clock, as you mentioned. Cheers man.
@@blakecurtis7809 inner clock beats robotic click track drumming.. hands down
As a sound engineer I have experienced some positive and negative situations where click tracks have been utilized. One experience with was with an artist who used a hand clap that played thru the PA as a “click”. It elevated the funk of the show when the band was cued to drop out while the clap kept the time until the band was cued back in. Also a Latin band once used a clave programmed beat loop the same way. I think if a ‘click’ is needed for sync reasons, an effort should be made to use a clap or shaker percussion loop instead. Maybe an arpeggiated chord progression loop that can be used instead of a boring click sounding click that’s only in the drummers ear. Sent out for all to hear sense it’s everyone in the bands job to keep time.
I like the idea of a natural percussive sound - clap or shaker etc - but really dislike the digital click. On live gigs, for me, I prefer the flow of the drummer - clicks induce a bit of panic somehow.
I’ve found playing at home I can keep time relatively easy but once playing with others that aren’t as concerned with tempo I’ve noticed I’m constantly having to adjust my playing to bring everyone back to the original tempo. I’ve started using a click during rehearsal to help everyone (especially myself) identify which parts want to speed up or slow down. Just being aware of what spots I need to watch out for or even what kinds of parts make me want to speed up or slow down, helps me keep the tempo steady during a live show without a click. More than that, I’m figuring out what kind of stuff I need to spend some more time on with a click. Thanks for your thoughts Rob. You’ve been a huge help and influence in my drum journey. Thank you for all you do!
I played without one for years, and hated it when I had to start when I started playing at a bigger church. It made my finished product so much more polished and I'm a better drummer for it. So now if there isn't one, I'm still light years ahead of where I used to be. No matter how long you've played, it's still natural to speed up as the song gets louder and builds. I still hate hearing it but I think it's worth it.
Time is supposed to float sometimes.
Great channel Rob. Keys player here. I’m in the middle of adding canned tracks for a band but in our particular case, we simply don’t have a large selection of secondary keys players, or at least ones who are willing to put forth the homework to nail their parts. I’ve gone my entire life so far without playing to a click. It find it fascinating that with all the technology out there and the rapid advancements in AI and other things that nobody has yet invented a box that will sync to the drummer, rather than the other way around. Back in the 80’s there was a device called the Russian Dragon which would kind of do that. The guy who invents that tool and it works reliably will retire a very wealthy man.
You have the perfectly balanced view of this topic. It's obvious....you've been there and done that. For me, as a full time recording engineer and drummer.....there are only rare occasions (in Nashville) where we don't record with a click and loop. Also, as you mentioned, most production shows use stems and/or video sync.....so the click is required. Same in church, climb in the cage and fire the click. I won't argue for or against a click, that's just the reality of playing drums these days. It's fun when it's not there too....if you're playing with great players. While we're talking about click, might as well talk about configuring an Ableton Live document. That's usually in the drummers hands too. :)
Hi Rob,
Keys player and music director here. Thanks for bringing up a really interesting topic. I totally agree with your comments on click tracks. What I’ve discovered in my little experience is that the decision sometimes boils down to circumstances you cannot change. Those that sticks out the most is the quality of the band/choir, the size of the occasion and even the acoustics of the hall/venue.
Overall, I tend to gravitate towards it for the reasons of: Discipline & Background Dynamics. So for example I don’t just use a clicktrack for the sake of it. There will most definitely be other sounds layered with it to bring in the effect/feel/dynamic required for that song. If I had the numbers to replace those elements in person, I’d definitely prefer humans to a machine but I think there’s a loss on both sides if you don’t have the human replacements and also do without the backing track.
I’m not sure if I’ve taken the discourse from click track to backing track now but this is how I’m seeing it from a musician point of view.
Hi Rob coincidence you have raised this question, have just watched Tony Coleman (BB King) talking about the same thing as he says drumming is NOT about beats BPM its about FPM (feel).Your job as a drummer in a live situation is to move the people. The only click he ever heard was a gun being cocked if you weren't doing your Job right.. All you drummers out there do yourself a favor and go and look up the youtube clip of him on Drumeo on his views on this subject.
Love your work Rob
Agree with this recommendation 100%. Been playing over 50 years and I listen to the band, not a click.
Never in my life played with a click. With good ears, who needs them! Thanks bra for your great videos! I'm old school too!
Spot on, brother. As a fellow drummer, I’ve left a few bands who were so concerned with perfection, that the fun was gone.
Once that happens, it becomes “work” and that’s not why I play.
You hit it right on the head when you said “no one in the audience cares” if the tempo is pushed and pulled around.
They really don’t. Sure...maybe if there are a few musicians in the crown, they might hear it.
But 99% don’t. And that’s what needs to be understood to keep the fun in the performance.
Great video, brother!! You always give us “little guys” something new to think about or try.
Love you, man!🤘🏻🤘🏻
I really like playing to a click track live. I do it in both groups I play with. It keeps all changes crisp and tight, odd meters included.
Did you see Rick Beato's video where he puts John Bonham through Beat Detective and utterly kills the feels? He shows how some true classic recordings had tempos that swung, and pushed and pulled. You can't 'hear' it, as such, but you definitely feel it.
That video was depressing, man. Just left me hoping that this whole thing is cyclical and that we’ll eventually get back to letting musicians be musicians. Most pop records these days are made by producers. Same three morons “writing” hits for everybody.
@@RobBeatdownBrown I totally agree. In my more optimistic moments it feels like more, and younger, people are getting into making real music, or at least getting educated about what real music is and why the Human element is so essential. You're doing your part on the education side, and more power to you!
I play with a click and/or backing track/loop all the time on my worship gig, and always in the studio when tracking, and almost always when practicing. HOWEVER, I play a lot of jazz, and that's a NO CLICK ZONE! Time has to be able to breathe. On my rock gig, I have asked the leader if he would consider going to an in-ear monitoring system and using a click, but no go. The nice part of not having it is that if the guitarist starts the tune off too slow or too fast, I can rectify it easily.
really good question. Without a click listening and reacting to my buddies (mainly guitar plys) we normally speed up while a song and during the concert....... plyng with the click needs more concentration to the time and less freedom for fooling and joking around, gives a little bit more seriousness to the whole thing. It begins to get relaxed and (a lot of) more fun if everybody in the band starts to really FEEL the leadership of the time and stops to fight or struggle. If this moment appears its getting great! And - most positive - after playing now for 5 YEARS every gig with click my timing REALLY got A LOT better and my playing has got so much more disciplined now, nice development ............
I hated it at first, but as I got more comfortable using it, I actually love it now. However, as you said, I love the human element that comes from playing without one. I've actually played with bands live that didn't allow a click track because they said, they didn't allow the music to breathe. As far as a metronome goes, I have always enjoyed playing along with one.
I agree with Mr.brown I am in projects that use both clicks live and others don’t . For the bands with backing tracks it’s obvious I have to . The others have a human element and I just try to keep it reigned in .
For us it's not just about staying together, but our tracks control lyrics, videos and also light cues. Plus, we're a smaller band, with plans to grow and add musicisns of course, so having the tracks gives us a bigger sound until we can get the musicians.
I'm with you Rob, I understand and will use one if necessary but I like the flow of the natural feel. I feel as very experienced drummer that I have pretty darn good time anyway!!! In case people dont really know what it sounds like or feels like there is a video on here with a comparison of Steven Adler and Matt Sorum from Guns and Roses. Matt Sorum being the more "polished" drummer. You can really hear and feel the difference.
I use both click track and metronome live for almost all the gigs I do! I use the click to play super steady time but only I hear it! The click tracks are used when there is a backing track of any kind! I have been doing this for a long time and have grown used to it. So I have no problem playing with click/metronome live. Keeps Everything tight!
Great topic... I’ve played in situations that used backing tracks because 1 consistency there was never an issue with the tempo. and 2 the track was playing parts that couldn’t be covered by the players on stage. I found that from performance to performance how the tempo may have seemed faster or slower. Or one of the other members would question is that the right tempo? Low and behold the machine is not going to deviate from the time and you can confidently know it’s not you. I presently work with a band that has a lead singer (who doesn’t play an instrument) this group doesn’t use a click. We don’t use a set list either, the singer calls out the next song just before the one we’re playing is ending.. This transition is to be instant, no real break between songs to think about the tempo. So it’s always a guess as to where the tempo is going to be for the next song. I may think it’s just a bit slower than the song we’re presently playing but the singer may think it’s a lot slower than what I think. It does get frustrating because trying to guess. I’ve tried to get a click involved but the singer says he doesn’t want to locked into that. One example, I programmed a simple percussion loop to use on a song. We rehearsed with it set the tempo. Which I knew wasn’t going to be right but I put it were he said he wanted it. All good right. Well that night the dance floor is packed the energy is up and he calls the “song”. I set the loop hit start and the tempo isn’t even close to were he thought it was going to be. He turns and says in a panic “that’s not right it’s to slow “ it was were we agreed to set it earlier though. He argued saying that the machine played the wrong tempo. All I could say is no the loop is not at fault it’s still at 127bpm. I just said your human I’m human.
Playing with a click or track which ever, is good because of consistency it takes the pressure off because of the human factor. Everyone has to have solid time in a band if your not going to use a time reference. Because I’m not using one at the moment I have to be able to go with the flow, we’ve agreed that the tempo is going to change possibly from night to night depending on how the vibe is. The person singing has to feel comfortable they’re the one that most everyone is paying attention to. So i watch them to see if there giving any signals to speed it up or slow it down. It’s not the most comfortable thing but it’s what is working for us.
In a church setting I like to have the click going with everyone because timing becomes a factor I don't really have to worry about. As for like jazz groups or less formal settings, I'd ditch the click and let the band control itself how it feels
Thank you for sharing another lesson and you're correct about the audience, they rarely know what the musicians are thinking while they are performing. The only ones that would notice are the musicians in the audience listening.
And those musician audience members are likely a VERY small % of the crowd. Often times, I have to remind myself to stop being so critical and just enjoy.
I love your take on this subject. I feel exactly the same way. I love your videos.
Great convo, Rob!
I’m a seasoned veteran of the Chicago music scene. I’ve only had a couple of tribute projects that required tracks with a click. I’ve been part of far more projects and bands that did not require them.
I’ve always been comfortable playing to a click, and I’ve found that there have been live situations that were helped tremendously when I played to a click in order to keep a band steady. There’s nothing worse for me that feeling like the band is in the pocket, only to listen to a video or recording of a show and realize that a lot of songs were consistently rushed. I have found that in this day and age, the majority of musicians who just want to make some money performing tend NOT to listen well and lock in with a solid drummer, who memorizes tempos. So, in my opinion, like you.... there are valid points for both sides of the discussion. Your video on how to run tracks live is also fantastic!
Love your videos, man!
Thanks again
JK 🥁
I'm with you Rob. I'm an OG where all the bands I came up to (Dave Matthews Band being a big influence on my playing and loving music) and hard rock/metal bands like Tool and Metallica, it didn't seem to me like they were playing to a click. I think there's something unique and special to a live performance where there is a unique relationship between the musicians, and then musicians to the audience. I don't even like hearing tracks that have some kind of music playing that someone on stage isn't actively creating. My church is using clicks and tracks, and I'm having to get used to them. I get the rationale. But I also feel like I am losing the relational aspect to the performance and my connection to the other musicians when playing to the click. It doesn't feel organic to me. I never have understood the idea that the performance has to be perfect, or exactly like a recording. If I want to hear a recording, I'll listen to the recording. Live, I want to see what each of the musicians bring to the table. And as a Christian, I believe that we are supposed to be playing to our best and with excellence - but that doesn't mean perfection. That's a big difference for me. Strive for the best, but God doesn't expect us to be perfect, even in our musicianship. He wants to connect with us, and that's a relationship, not something that is programmed. So I definitely share your sentiment on them. I can learn to work with them, but it's not my ideal. My new vision for whenever I form my own band is that we'll buck the trend and not use clicks or music tracks at all in our performance. Practice? Yes! Recording? Absolutely! But live? Nope.
Our praise team started using a click track in the in ear monitor system a little more than a year ago. As you say it was to help some of the weaker players with the timing. Also it ended the question of weather I was going to count us in or the worship leader was going to do it. Another bonus is no one has to say or play an intro count in. At first it was supper annoying and distracting but like most things it has become easier with practice. Our worship leader does have the sense to kill the track if it is not adding to the song. In those times when the emotion of a song wants to push us faster we just jump out. We have been using electric drums for a long time so I have always had the ability to have a click in my ears to be able to start a song on tempo. A draw back that I see is now we aren't listening to each other as much al the time as we are listening to the click.
Most people don't start playing drums in studios but more so in live situations be loose jam sessions or on gigs. And to strap a click on a beginner drummer has the potential to do more harm than good - meaning they become too reliant on clicks than in live situations where, most cases if not all, don't use clicks. I will always remember a statement by the great Omar Hakim regarding time...it needs to be established "internally" vs. externally. In other words it needs to be like an internal clock that's felt more than heard.
I agree with you that they do have there rightful places (studio work, personal practice, rudiments etc.) but not in live situations where the human aspects are driven by feel/mood of musicians as well as how an audience can influence the excitement musicians feed off of. Yep, I use a click but only in environments mention above and not live playing. I once played with a group that were addicted to clicks just for sake of bringing up an argument with drummers that they were 2 - 3 bpm slow or fast! Although I was on it I chose not to continue. At that point, I excused myself out the exit door...lol. My take. Thanks for bringing up a topic of many opinions.
I play to a click and tracks live a lot, and love aspects of it, such as there is no question as to whether the song is too fast or too slow, and is a necessity as we sync to video.
I play around the click, by playing behind, right on it, and ahead of the click depending on what part of a song we're in. It can be a huge challenge if there's a push and pull of time with the various band mates, but fortunately for me, the players I work with have great time. It hasn't always been this way and trying to get people to play in time with you can be like herding cats!
It has made my ability to be "liquid" with the time and not be so rigid, and/or panic if the time slips away for some reason. Of course I prefer to not play live with it, but it's a necessary tool in some cases and has sharpened my ability to have more solid and fluid time.
Heard a great comment some time back on playing with a click by Steve Gadd..he said something along the lines of : don't fight the click ...treat it as if there is a percussionist next to you playing a clave or a cowbell..
This is one of the most important videos you have posted..100 percent agree with everything you just said..click track equal dehumaniser.. metronome when practicing..but not always.the clock needs to operate without aids as well..brilliant video..did Mozart or Beethoven orchestra use a click track...nuff said 😁😁
I didn’t know Mozart and Beethoven were drummers??? 🤔
@@JS45678 they were not drummers.but the orchestra did not have any click track
Depends on the music and context (so agree with you about this) - I practice with one and I use one on-stage for the first 4 measures or so of the playlist to kick us off in the rehearsed tempo (more for the benefit of the soloists than me). I play music where letting time speed up and slow down is part of the feel - intensity and surrender. "Good time is part of the job...internal meter" couldn't agree more!! Some music the bass carries time through passages and my job as a drummer is to primarily colour and drive the emotional intensity - to drive the other musos to crescendo, control ritard with signals
👍🏼 You’re the king brother! “..com’mon I’m Beatdown Brown!” 😂
Like you, I’m an “OG”, and for years tried the click on stage, and had to stop using them. Not that I couldn’t, but most importantly, it takes out the “human element” that music MUST HAVE! It’s not from a robot, it’s from people. Musicians!
Cheers brother. 👍🏼🇨🇦
I agree with you. I like to speed up in certain parts and slow down in others. It’s fun to feel and vibe with my Bros in the band...
Everyone has their own click track, ........ it's called a heart
Noel May beat
True- yet this isn't helpful for drumming, because heartbeat varies by activity...thus a more physically involved part would inadvertantly increase your tempo; avoiding thus is the whole point of a click. 👍
@@TupDigital I was referring not to heart beat but more to heart and soul, feeling the emotion of the music 😍
@@NoelMay haha right on then! I didn't mean to overly serious your statement, was just the thoughts ot provoked in me!
In my church choir, I love it. Also if I'm in a group where the keyboard player uses a sequencer.
Everything you said is Valid. Just to hear a student Say his band Fights over tempos on stage doing covers. Only Practice maybe once a Month.
They're telling him to use a click. i asked Wheres the reference of tempo any way? I have Played with a Click on stage and all that. But one must Practice together. Right on Rob Brown, you rock.
Very interesting topic Rob! One that has been playing on my mind recently. I play to a click live and I think I put it down to not trusting my ability to not speed up / slow down beyond acceptable margins (whatever that is) in a song. We did a demo a while back and I didn’t play to click, it’s a full on song that builds to the end and I sped up by almost 10 bpm from start to finish. It’s haunted me somewhat and I don’t want to deviate that much again which I think is partly why I always play with a click now. I perhaps don’t trust myself. I probably need to practice more and feel more confident. Back in the day I never played live to a click.
Keep up the good work Rob!
I use a Tama RW 200 Metronome onstage with volume off...I watch the light.....starts song off correctly then hardly look at it.
But do you actually maintain that temp perfectly? I'm sure there's variations, but subtle. So what's the use of it.
It ensures you count the song is counted in at the correct temp....that stops the phrase..."I think that tune was a little fast "..lol....the tempo is what the original recording was played at....no guess work.
I've been drumming for 24 years now, 22 of those almost totally ignorant of metronomes/click tracks. This is precisely due to me spending almost this entire span playing in bands, from the week i got my first kit at age 13 (I did take lessons for a year at age 14 but didn't go back after a broken bone hiatus, thus missing feeling WHY rudiments and fundamentals matter and forming healthy practice habits. I learned to be competent for sure, especially band wise, but only recently did I mature to the point where I truly dived into DRUMMING, learning my craft in depth, focusing on quantifiable progress, accurate performance, sound technique, and the gear best for me. You know, all the stuff that really makes up the nuts and bolts for drum lovers. I kind of stayed at the surface for years. Playing to a metronome app at first showed me how awfully inconsistent I was. FF a year or two, and my band is approaching turn on a dime tightness to the click tracks I craft for our individual songs, and my techniques, stamina, and overall ability have been exponentially improving. Discovering what 'practice smarter not harder' means has developed in me, and thus I've tangibly improved more in
When you have to play along with additional voices triggered from a computer or keyboard (eg industrial rock, electro pop, etc), the click track is a must.
It’s definitely necessary in certain genres. I can’t hate on backing tracks in every situation. My favourite band on the planet is Depeche Mode. Saw them twice last year and the shows were incredible. And they’re running click and all KINDS of tracks up there. The other side to it, of course, is that Never Let Me Down will sound pretty much the same every single night. But it’s Depeche Mode, so who cares!
MASTER 🙌🙌🙌 I am always concerded about mantaining the exact tempo through all the song...you are absolutely true...nobody cares if we play +/- 3 or 4 bpms out of time....very good comparison between time and heart beat....
If there a sequencer, or quantized loops in the song, it’s going to be sloppy without a click for the drummer. A good drummer can still push and pull the tempo, even with a click. (They just need to resolve the tempo back to the original. Cymbals are good for covering that shortened measure; if you sped up.) Also, you can anticipate a tempo change and write a tempo map for the click.
So, Rob your points aren’t valid in a lot of different music types.
In my experience, drummers usually say they don’t like click tracks because they can’t play along with them.
Practicing to a metronome to develop "relative perfect time" is a great skill to hone. When playing in worship, with all different skill levels, sometimes a click is also crucial in order that other band members can stay on time. Especially when the pocket drops out from behind a choir/lead instrument. I personally hated working with clicks at first, and I took it as a personal "slight" against my ability to keep the band and flow going, after burying the metronome. After rehearsing many times with individuals that have poor time, I see the benefit! We use P-16s and in-ears, and every band member is listening to the click. So after awhile, I realised the positive aspects of using the click to keep those who are "time challenged" on course. Lol Worship is a special kind of "difficult", it's simple, but has to be done perfect to sound right and lead the congregation.
When playing gigs that have a lot of give and take, call and response, flow, rushing and dragging, etc., I feel the click can ruin the feel of certain players and the general "conversation".
I will say, after playing week after week with different skill sets and relative perfect times (we have a rotation at our church, so no 1 band is ever the same), I can see the benefit! However, that doesn't mean it can't still be "annoying" or a skill that doesn't need special attention to develop. I don't use it much for my own personal benefit any longer, or when playing tunes I know well. We all know that really good players, who play with the click often, make it so the click "disappears" into the background. Great topic, and distinguishing between practicing for personal relative perfect time vs. playing live on a gig with a click track!
Hey Rob great drum channel! I've played to clicks for years due to having backing tracks in some of the bands. It's an interesting question, sometimes you run into band where you have another player who constantly complains about the tempo but they themselves can't even play to a metronome, I'm still surprised how many musicians of other instruments today still do not dedicate a portion of their practice regiment to developing this skill. Drummers will always take the blame for tempo problems in any band, sometimes rightfully so and sometimes not. If you play with good solid musicians it makes our job a whole lot easier, but that is not always the case.
Love this topic, i think it depends alot on the style, you are on a blues gig, or jazz or New Orleans feel type of gig, i would say no...but for modern pop stuff? I think its better, because lets face it, a lot of that type of music was recorded on the grid, and its important to stay true to the style of music that you are performing. But at the end of the day, you have to be good at both, with or without.
I agree with everything you said about click tracks brother. There is a time and a place for it. However, it definitely does take away the drummer's interaction with the rest of band and puts us on an island.
Clicks live is a solid reference. If ur getting creative, it can’t hurt.
I wholeheartedly agree for exactly the same reasons. I played in a djent band and not only was trying to sort it all out in practice a nightmare (we didn't have money for anyone to have ears apart from me) but it completely just sucks you out of the room. Yes, there were gigs where songs were ridiculously fast, but we learned from that and adjusted. Especially for that type of music people think its necessary. It's not if your tight, and people would comment on how tight we were without it. I know you like tesseract, if you ever go see them live you'll see they all are on click tracks and guess what, the music may be executed perfectly but their stage presence sucks. It's so odd
Perfectly stated. I feel the same way. Started using it in church because the other musicians kept fighting me on tempo. I solved it by making us play to a click. Sure showed them that it wasn’t just me struggling to keep it together. But I agree on feeling not as natural and emotional. So I see the good and bad from it as well.
playing to the click is just reference. You can play behind on top of the beat now that EVERYONE knows where that is! OH, this also forces people to use in ear monitors instead of wedges. Yet another positive side effect. I've been playing drums in church for 40 years, only the last 15 or so with IEMs. My hearing is forever damaged...
Must be able to play to a click/metronome if its there/required? Yes.
Must be able to hold down the groove and carry on if its not there?
Yes.
All musicians should learn to have good internal meter.
Yup
I've been using tracks for about 12 yrs....very used to it live and stops any arguments about tempos considering going back to playing with my own clock....
Hey Rob. Apart from the fact that at some stage (ho ho) it is just going to be what's necessary to get the job done, I think the most important thing you highlighted was the fact that nobody in the audience gives a shit about tempo (within reason) and by extension, reminds us to ask ourselves exactly who is it that we're playing our music for, and indeed why. One hopes we all answer that it is to entertain and uplift others (and ourselves), and not a masturbatory ego-fest where the fact that the 9th 16th of the third bar was fractionally late/early thus rendering the bass player's life entirely ruined forever and a crime never to be forgiven.
"Time is the responsibility of every musician in the band." - quote taken from page 1 of the teaching notes I received from the legendary Bob Armstrong.
Ooh, great topic! Firstly, I don't mind click tracks cos they're a sweet guide and they also help prepare you for the studio. I think it depends on what is necessary for the music and band that you're playing with. If you have pre-set synths that you wanna have playing out the PA and you have no synth player then you kinda need a click (like my band VNTE) or if you have an immaculate visual/stage/whatever show pre-programmed. But if otherwise playing natural is dope and is great for the vibe and energy, sometimes some parts sound better played with a "fluctuating timing". Also my church has not click which is really fun and a challenge when the one leader who has terrible timing is leading and you've really got to listen and work with em! Finally, having the gear to bring to a gig for the backing track/click can be quite hefty and a pain in the arse...
Couldn’t agree more, Rob! Musicians should be ABLE to follow a click, but shouldn’t NEED it.
One huge reason I won’t put my band on a click is that I like to keep the music flowing from song to song, and if we had to stop and get a count-in from a click every time it would kill the momentum.
Yup. One of the worst and most annoying aspects of clicks on stage. ESPECIALLY when we’re responsible for runnin’ it
I want to start. I don’t know how to go about it. Where do I need to start? What am I looking for? How do you use it? Are they used with ear buds/headphones? Fill me in please. Which one is the best to buy?
I personally think that click tracks are really convenient for specific types of genres live. Examples would be subgenres of metal where the music gotta sit really tight, also genres where you would implement some type of electronic sounds to the mix which wouldn't sound complete without those specific sounds live. Otherwise, the click tracks will just make the band sound soulless and the overall tightness and chemistry between the band members would just disappear.
For me personally one thing works quite well, which I heard from Shanon Forrest (Toto) in an interview. He has a click running, but only for the first 10 or 12 bars of the song and than in stops. This method helps me to find the pocket (I am not a pro and I must admit I get pretty excited when I have to play live) BUT I am not tied to the click the whole song .
If I were to use one voluntarily, that’d be how. Just for reference. Once the ball is in the air, just float it. A little flux in BPM is OK. Nobody’s gonna walk out on your show because they think that one song was a bit too fast
@@RobBeatdownBrown Exactly, i sometimes use a Rhythm Watch live on some songs just to get the correct bpm going. ( i just make a note on my set list before the gig and dial it in before the song starts) It has a live feature that plays 2 bars of click then shuts off, gets me in the bpm ball park on songs that i'm not totally familiar with and still allows the groove to breath and move a little after it shuts off depending on how the band is feeling the song on any particular gig. On songs that i've been playing for the past 40 something years there are no worries, just jump right in with a count, it's usually close. Whatever keeps me relaxed and grooving with good time is what matters. I've found the RW to be helpful. No endorsement, just a tool i've found that works for me.......Thank you for your videos, they are great and i appreciate all the hard work you have put into them! Cheers!
Rob, I'm right there with you. I'm a ROG! However, since I am still playing, at times I am forced to play with the click. i.e. studio, Church, etc. Unfortunately we have a boat load of musicians that only know how to interact with a click, not other musicians. Back in the day, playing longer or shorter versions of a song was common. If it was going well, milk it. If not, cut it and go on. :) I understand that using backing tracks allows for reduced personnel. But the result isn't really live music. I would far rather play and hear minimal acoustic arrangements with live musicians than all the overproduced surround sound. Also, I sing (while playing drums) and remember the day not so long ago that all lyrics were memorized. Now too reliant on the iPad. However, at my age maybe this is the only hope now. :)
I have no preference either way. I can play to clicks and sequences through my IEM's and do exactly that in my band on certain songs. I am pretty new to the concept, but am doing ok. It also gives me quite a good feeling knowing I can do it. My bandmates sometimes start heading off at a fast pace, but I have to concentrate and stay locked to the click and the other guys have to reign it in as I am the only one with the click. They have to lock onto me.
I use the clicks on the stage for every songs. Android app "Metronome Beats Pro" with an external amps and inear headphones.
Great video. In my opinion playing with a click live makes everything feel rigid. However, I feel that they can be necessary, at least for a time. For instance, we don’t use one at my church but at times I almost wish we did. Reason being is that everyone’s timing is not that great, which makes my job harder. Everyone is constantly speeding up or slowing down (and I’m not talking about only by a few bpm’s). It gets frustrating. So I feel playing with a click for a while could help everyone develop their timing.
I feel this, in my band I really wanted to get everyone on perfect timing. But sometimes on stage its impossible, the singer gets emotional or the guitar gets into his solo.
As a volunteer drummer at a church with volunteer worship team members, I love click tracks.
I’ll bet. Haha
I am in total agreement with you Ron Brown. Hate click tracks but it's sometimes necessary. Certainly takes away from freedom and much of today's performances are way too orchestrated and sequenced. It's like robots on stage miming.
The only time that I've used a click is during recording. I would not want to use one live because I'm a big believer in on-stage communication between players. A song can ebb and flow a bit and still be great. Great for practicing though.
I agree internal time is lost to most newbies, I play in a track band now and then and we rock but I have to stay in that box and it sux. I also play in a live band w/ horns and I just use a Korg digital visual metronome sweep arm I just watch it once in awhile and see if im draggin or speeding to much I usually am dead on
If the song sounds just like it
Did on the album save the money
And listen to the Album.
If the loves live shows.
Halestorm for example
I don’t mind clicks right up to the point I wanna “hit the gas”.... then I get bummed out. But I see both sides. Solution, just be great at playing with and without a click.
Totally agree for the live music component. Having a click in my ear during church performances where its just a band playing really bothers me. Totally kills the feel for me cause I feel like I'm just playing music to a click but not really getting to enjoy what I'm playing or hearing from the other musicians. Definitely need it on recording to make sure the tempo is rock solid for everyone and that everyone's on the same page, but otherwise I'd rather just enjoy playing music.
I can’t imagine what Bonham would sound like playing to a click.
He's the First Drummer I saw Live. 13 years old at the Old Atlanta Civic Center. One might would ask if Mom and Dad knew I went? Lol
@@AngusMac1987 There's actually a great video called "HOW WOULD BONHAM SOUND TODAY? (Quantized)" by Rick Beato that talks about a somewhat related topic. Worth a watch.
@@funkdrummer Thanks I'll check it out.
I never tried to line up a click to Led Zeppelin...
great for beginner drummers and general practicing but if you NEED and can't play without a metronome on stage there is a problem
Great vid Rob. On some of our songs we play with sequenced parts, so it is imperative. However if we are just playing a normal song then I count if off and set the tempo. I am new to backing tracks and sequences, but am certainly getting to grips with it to the point where I am reasonably confident now. Before this however I have spent 30 years without them. It is just a new tool in my box now.
I played to a click track in rehearsal and live performance from 1995 to 2013. I didn't mind it but in retrospect would have preferred not to use it. My band had a lot of sequenced synths and samples going off. It was necessary to have a click track in my ear while drumming. The key for me was to have the click track just barely loud enough to hear in my ear.
But I often yearned for some actual free for all jam out sessions where we could improvise live and bounce the tempo's up and down and just have fun.
I grew up in the mid 70's and 80's and enjoyed being the primary timekeeper as the drummer for bands. Rob Brown is right with what he speaks about in this video. There used to be a time when the drummer just had to know what a 120 bpm tempo was or 90bpm or whatever.
Rock music these days sounds too mechanical, quantized out in the studio and just sterile. That's my opinion on playing with a click track live, etc...
STERILE, man. Seriously. I listen to modern pop these days and feel nothing whatsoever. Sonically perfect. Completely soulless. Every tune on any billboard chart is completely forgettable after a few weeks. Nobody’s writing Roxanne anymore.
@@RobBeatdownBrown Thanks for all the great videos you put up on your channel. I enjoy listening and learning from them. :)
This!! You should have it in your earpiece as a musician but I should never hear it as listener. I have come to hate it with a passion because I lived with someone that used it as an audible instrument...it becomes torture to the ear and makes the music unpalatable.
Live ,I have used a click with a light just to to stay in between the lines.
Never had the opportunity to, but would love it.
Once played with a pre-made beat, but barely supplemented anything over it (instrumentation didn’t really call for much more than what was played on the track, so I don’t really think it counts).
I would love to play with a band that is able to play with an in-ear-metronome-using drummer.
I just groove dont need either
For years of playing without a click or metronome, i hate playing with one. Granted in studio time i understand it. Its just at this time i have a hard time cause i'm part of that old school way. Where you devolpe a internal clock and also go by what you feel in the music. I do know i will need to learn how to play to one for the studio. But on stage or practice you don't need it unless the band as whole is off or the drummer.
That's right! " When you wanna step on the gas!"
I played in my church 20 plus years ago & needless to say things are greatly different now. I recently returned to drumming two years ago & it's been fun. I'm not in favor of a click, it takes away from the authenticity & realness of the sound. Mistakes, flaws and all is a part of performing. Trying to obtain perfection with the aid of any kind of click or whatever isn't really a true authentic sound. This is just my view & opinion. I respect those that uses a click or any other device. It's your prerogative. 😊
Thanksthanks beatdown! I'm still a beginner but I trying to engrain the click so it become a natural internal click and I can play live without.
I think a click track on stage is fine if you are part of a complex show and need to stay in time with elements that you can't otherwise see or hear.
I use the Tempo app so I don’t have to “pull a tempo out of the air” with some bands I play with. It takes away the debate as to whether the song is at the right tempo. I haven’t done any live playing to a click. I have played to backing tracks which included a simple drum pattern which I played on top of. I always practice to a metronome. If someone offered me a click track gig I would have to shed it to get it right but that’s homework.
Ideally you want to play without a click track and backing tracks. But sometimes you don't have enough people in the band to play everything, so you need backing tracks and to use a looper which doesn't work well without a click track.
I liked using a click track live when it was necessary to play with backing tracks; if there are no backing tracks a click is just another thing to set up so I don't use it. Also, if other players rush/drag while the drummer stays on click it doesn't feel good to the audience.
I did a top 40 country band back in 96, singer made all his own sequences. We played to a click, I didn't mind. the band was killing. If you'd like to check it out BeatDown...I could post a link.
I'm in a metal band (guitarist) and we use clicks because we have backtracks and segues because we dont have key and string players (and for one show, we didnt have a bass player) So long as youre on time anyway, i personally, dont notice it. Ive never used clicks in any other setting though.
As an alternative, have you considered your drummer triggering off those tracks with a electronic pad? If it's just for ambience inbetween songs itd be fine. Obviously the bass thing is fair enough
@@nickpov3y we have considered that as we used to do something similar, but he'd still have to be tethered to the tempo of the sample anyway and since there are quite a few segments within songs, it just makes life way easier and more consistent for us. If it was ONLY segues, it'd be different. There are bands that do stuff like you mentioned, but those bands generally have more stripped down live approaches.
@@nickpov3y we have a lot of synth leads and big, textural pieces within songs, so it requires having time references
I honestly like it, but it needs to be very well rehearsed, otherwise it kills the vibe. But when all the musicians can play to a click track effortlessly it makes everything feels super solid and it doest bother me, most of the time I don’t even notice it. And I think that is because rehearsals are on small rooms and on stage is a very different scenario, everyone is far from each other, most of the time as a drummer you are waay on the back, and if the monitoring is not on point you cannot hear well to your bandmates, so without a click track everything can feel very disconnected.
Valid point at the end there
It all depends on the song you're playing; some songs need it, other's don't. Personally, I don't prefer playing to a click track, because I'm more focused on the click than enjoying the song being played. Whenever possible, I play without one! Having said that, some songs need them, because there are just too many parts going on at the same time. I've played songs to backing tracks that sound great, and were a big hit with the audience...
The problem I run into with using a click track on stage is that I freelance a lot. Different bands, different tunes, some tunes the same but they approach them at different tempos. Most of the time a guitar player or a vocalist will want to set the tempo so I basically try to fall in as close as possible to where they want the time to be. I thought about using a Tama Rhythm Watch and just use the tap in feature for where they want the tempo but mostly I listen to who counts the tune off and zero in on that count the best I can. It can be frustrating sometimes, no doubt. I also play with bands who don't use any particular set list or pick songs off of 4 or 5 different set lists at random, makes searching for a bpm very tuff especially when the show is moving along at a fast clip or someone from the audience shouts out a request and we bust into the tune quickly. I wouldn't mind using a click but most of the time it's a lot easier using the old internal clock. Any ideas, tips or comments would be greatly appreciated!
I love using click tracks ❤
Ur my favorite drum teacher of all time.
Thanks man 🙂👊🏽
I agree with you Rob 100%. Keep up the good work.✌️
Here’s where I stand on the whole thing. I use click tracks most of the time I play (drums mainly, bass secondarily). A lot of times it’s out of necessity, for backing tracks and guitar/keys effects or samples that are tempo dependent (for guitars they can usually tap tempos but for keys depending on the rig it can be a pain in the ass without a click). It also means that I don’t have to worry if I’m showing up to a band I don’t trust/don’t know. I know I’m going to be solid click or no, but this way if someone else’s internal time isn’t great the whole band isn’t suffering as much. On the flip side, if it’s people I know and trust and there’s no tracks, I don’t mind taking it off. I don’t personally get a sense of ‘freedom’ when it’s gone, I don’t really notice any difference in my playing other than the occasional slight drift that just comes with playing. I also understand where you’re coming from Rob. What I absolutely disagree with is people who say they feel restricted by playing with a click, when what they really mean is that they just suck at keeping with it. Now obviously that’s not everyone but it’s a good number. Playing without a click ain’t an excuse to have bad time. If you have bad time, take that click up there with you to keep you steady cause nothing will kill the vibe worse than your time. Then spend your practice time developing strong time until you can kill it with or without a click. Also, you should be able to play on top of, behind, or in front of a click to get the right feeling. I can play laid back 90’s hip hop beats to a click all day and have them still FEEL right, which is what you gotta be able to do. Like I said, I kinda don’t get the disdain for them because I don’t feel limited by them ever, and mostly internalize it so much I hardly notice it, but they can really help pull things together in certain situations.
I had to learn to play with the Metronome early on in my lessons. Had a few task masters who demanded meticulous timing. Then when I branched out and started playing with bands and others it wasn't as big of a deal. UNTIL...my Uncle took me with him to Muscle Shoals studios. I got to meet a few of the Session guys who told me to keep working with the Metronome but to remember it was up to me to stay in the "Pocket". Rocket what seems like 100 years forward and I'm in Nashville. They threw a Click on me. Never dealt with one before but luckily due to my previous experiences I adapted. Don't like them. Like Rob says he understands why, but doesn't mean you gotta like them.
Sorry so long.
If all the instruments are live, a click usually isn't necessary. But if anything is recorded rather than live, you need it. I usually use it for playing solo with backing tracks. Of course pyrotechnics and stuff require a click as well, but I hate that kind of stuff.
Solo performances are a different story. Totally get how the aid of a few tracks could elevate your performance. But five, six people on stage shouldn’t need two abelton live rigs to rock a crowd unless your album is produced beyond comprehension, which is the case for a lot of acts these days. Most pop records are made in the control room now with no real need for session players
@@RobBeatdownBrown yeah, I agree with you. I mean, what are drummers for, right?
I love your channel. Great info. I like playing with a click. I also like the app you talked about awhile back, LiveBPM.
LiveBPM is the shizznit 💯