Dont forget, Khorne doesn't just love melee. He also loves orbital bombardment, dogfights in low orbit, ship to ship broadsides, etc. Violence between peers at any level is great.
Yeah honestly that's really the only thing anyone should need to know about the Emperor on whether he has his son's best interests at heart. Like holy FUCK dad.
To be fair, the emperor could have taken his son's suffering just like Angron died, but he chose not to. He showed him, better than anybody else, that suffering is inherent to what they were going to do. That it was a part of life and that they had to bear it. Vulkan understood but he tried to make things the right way, even if it was hard and painful. I think that the Emperor saw the reflection of a part of himself right there. All his dreams and plans were pushed forward as he saw more visions of the distant future. He knew that he needed to do horrible things and that he would have to bear that suffering alone. Malcador could be with him but he couldn't bear his grief, pain and burden, even if Malcador understood it very well. Just like Angron had nobody to share his pain with, the Emperor hadn't one and he needed his son to understand that the only way to overcome it was to push it, to be himself and be better, not die in self loathing. A ghost will do, because after what they both had seen and gone through, they won't be anything else, and even then, both had the spark to keep pushing but for different reasons. The Emperor could have done things better, but he is not perfect and as sometimes can be seen, he expects his children to strife for more. To fight for the future and to reflect about why things are a certain way. Only a few did and other even misunderstood it, but he couldn't explain it and tell them everything because they wouldn't have listened or learnt from it and he needed them to understand by their own means
@@PragabondI mean, given the absolute fuck up that angron was up to that point, why should the emperor do anything differently? Angron failed every single benchmark for being a halfway decent primarch. Every single one. He couldn’t even unite his own planet. His start wasn’t any harder than Kurze, or Corax, or Sanguineous, or Mortarion. And yet despite that all he achieved was a doomed rebellion that would have required significant interstellar support to survive let alone win and the mutilation of his brain because he couldn’t even escape a gladiator pit. Why in the world would the emperor devote any kind of resources to supporting this failure? Especially when Nuceria joins the imperium willingly without a fuss, and ends up staying loyal?
I try to imagine why the Emperor would do that. Maybe he wanted Angron to become stronger through loss. Maybe he knew that Angron was going to betray him and was playing 4D chess with the infinite future possibilities. Or he was just a bad dad.
@@williansnobre If the Emperor "knew Angron was going to betray him", then he would also be aware that _he's_ the one who _gave_ Angron the biggest reason to betray him. Don't attribute to malice what can be atteibuted to incompetence. *The Emperor was a bad dad.*
Chill is a relative term. He’s just easily entertained. Nurgle gives you disease but takes away your pain. Slaanesh gives you everything you want but also magnifies all the negatives. Tzeentch? Idk why anybody would knowingly serve the ultimate backstabber playing a game of 5d chess. Khorne wants violence and grants boons for more violence when you commit violence.
@@PaleCrestedWolf except it’s 5d chess. Tzeentch already beat you the day you were conceived. He already butterfly affected the circumstances leading up to the game.
@@giantninja9173"the ultimate backstabber" lol Tzeench doesn't constantly back stab his followers tell me you know nothing about tzeench without telling me you know nothing about tzeench
@@NeloBladeOfRannihe doesn’t constantly but it’s more like playing roulette. When you win you win big. But you still have to high chance of getting fucked over. Notably his most well known followers in 40k got fucked over hard.
To complete the unfinished quote: "According to the laws of physics, it is impossible for Angron to fly. But through his sheer rage, he does it anyway."
So when Sanguinius rips out the butchers nails from Angrons head, it takes part of his skull with him. And when he does this I believe, he sees that there is no brain in Angrons head, just a bundle of the butchers nails within his skull. When Big E first brought Angron up, he knocked him out and had Arkhan Land examine him, and the nails were so embedded, that the parts of Angron's brain that had been cut out to fit the nails had begun to be shaped and replaced by the butchers nails, like they would coil into the shape and attach in a way similar to those missing pieces of his grey matter. What seems to be the case is that this is what was killing him, pieces of his brain slowly being replaced fully by the butchers nails, so when Lorgar made him a daemon, Khorne just decided to complete the process, so now the nails are literally Angrons brain, there will never be a separation.
What is so tragic about the death of the Warhound psychers is that one librarian dreadnought in particular cared so much about stopping dads ascension to demonhood he got uncomfortably close to killing Lorgar. Actually had Lorgar on the back foot as he was so horribly injured the singular dreadnought was pounding him into the dirt. Then Angron saw his buddy getting fucked up and DELETED the last librarian dreadnought.
It wasnt a librarian dreadnought, it was lhorke, the first chapter master of the warhounds, he was just a legionary, he didnt want to see the world eaters descend further into madness, due to him not having the nails, he could see where things were going, other than that you are correct though, had he have been left to his own devices he would have killed logar, he already had him serverly maimed, you may be getting confuses as the legions librarians had a mental battle with logar to weaken him and they used lhorke during it
I now understand why I love these episodes. Isyander gets to passionately tell the lore of warhammer 40k and Koda is genuinely listening and is fascinated. Isyander is getting the reactions that every 40k fan wants when trying to get their friends into the lore.
One of my favorite things about Angron’s speech to Guilliman is that he never stopped thinking about it. it lived rent free in his head all the way into the modern age. And it’s actually an argument he references in the dark imperium thinking about whether or not Guilliman’s right to support the Imperium.
Unexpected Badger? In my 40k chat? Swaws. Also, about the "skulls for the Golden Throne thing", we all know "Khorne cares not from where the blood flows, only that it does", but I remember one of the "you died" quotes from Space Marine being "success is measured in blood, yours, or your enemies", which is fun to see more layers of Chaos hallmarks just being in Imperial parlance with no-one the wiser.
To be fair I think him being calm around Sang had more to do with psyker abilities over him liking Sanguinius. His aura just physically soothed the pain from the butcher's nails which I mean I'm sure does make someone more likeable but that's beside the point. It is cool to know they got along surprisingly well. Given Angron was supposed to be the nice boy and Sanguinius is the nice boy it makes sense their sons would get along.
the Big E is just a parent that doesn't hide that he plays favorites. He likely organized his kids into 1)Kindred spirit 2) Unquestionably useful tool 3)Meh 4) Barely useful weirdo 5) Sanguinius
1) Dorn, Guilliman, Horus, Vulkan, Fulgrim, Magnus 2) Perturabo, Angron, Russ, Lorgar 3) ? 4) Kurze I don't feel like the Lion, the Khan, Mortarion, Corax or Ferrus fits any of those. As for "Meh"... Alpharius maybe.
@@lykos2738 I would have thought that Lorgar would go under 4. After Monarchia but before the Heresy he’d be 3. The Khan is easily 3. As is Ferrus. Mortarian would be between 3 and 4. I wanna say Corax is 1 for some reason? Alpharius I’d also say is 3, maybe 4. The Lion… 2 I say. And I disagree with Angron, he should be 4. So I’d go 1) Horus, Guilliman, Magnus, Vulkan, Corax 2) Dorn, Russ, Lion, Perturabo, Fulgrim 3) Khan, Ferrus, Mortarion, Alpharius 4) Lorgar, Angron, Curze
@@israeldelarosa5461 the reason I listed Lorgar under 2 was because when the Emperor found him, Lorgar was (ironically) fighting Chaos before anyone knew what Chaos was. You are being surprisingly hard on the Khan and Dorn. Ferrus doesn't have enough lore to be classed I think. I kind of get what you say about Corax though. In Lord of Shadows he pulls some emperor-grade asshole moves. Essentially to the entire planet of Deliverance "figure it out stupid, I got more important shit to do".
@@lykos2738 The lion is somewhere between 1 and 2 he's the emperor's executioner and the only one he trusts with a bunch of archeotech in order to fulfill that duty
There's a world eaters warband called gladiator's cadre 331 who still wear the old war hound colors and still keep their customs like the triumph rope and reject the butcher's nails as much as possible.
Unless I’m mistaken, in “Angron Slave of Nuceria,” the World Eaters or “War Hounds” were described as phalanx fighting, slow defensive fighters before they met Angron. Crazy how far they fell.
Khorne re-made him as a brainless slave with the nails permanently part of his physiology. He can't talk, he suffers eternally as a slave (the one thing he never wanted to be again), and even his wings (the mark of honor among daemon prices) barely work. Khorne hated him and remade him as a joke.
I get the impression that the moment Angron had the butchers nails implanted into him, he was no longer fit for the Emperor's purpose and stopped caring, doing the absolute bare minimum (saving his life) and moving on
There was a bit about big E and another scientist on Terra looking into removing them but it would've killed angron so they said screw he's fine like this then.
@@dakotawharton he also very specifically said that the information would never leave the group, and i think Malchador even wiped the memory of the Tech Priest giving that information.
I had a WE player charge Angron directly towards my Cerastus Lancer, whiff his charge, and then get one-shot by said lancer the next turn. Now nobody will fight my knights anymore.
50:22 Fun fact! Occasionally, people in 40K are in horrific pain or are falling the Chaos or are just a bit icky, and thus are executed. And that is described as "showing them the emperors mercy".
Crazy how angron's sons used their father like pokemon. Just locked him up and when they are ready to use him just go "Angron I choose you" and immediately just drop a whole demon on the battlefield.
At first they spent all their time trying to get him to come OUT of containment and now they straight up work to throw him in it That's probably intentional honestly
My unhinged theory on why the Emperor treated Angron so poorly is because the Emperor vaguely knew that he would be stuck on the golden throne one day. The Emperor needed one of his sons to simply hate him enough to kill him on the throne and allow him to regenerate/ascend.
That is a very unhinged theory but it does a better job explaining why the Emperor would be that blatantly shitty for absolutely no reason than the original lore does
No need for something that convoluted. Angron literally didn’t warrant any effort from big E. As a primarch Angron failed every single thing a primarch was meant to do or be long before the emperor found him. Couldn’t lead warriors to victory in a war, couldn’t defeat the greatest threats personally (iirc angron has been beaten by more enemies than literally any other primarch), couldn’t lead a population, couldn’t unite a planet. All he could do was fight moderately well, and get good warriors killed. So when the emperor arrives to meet his son, that son is on the verge of death to normal humans, his rebellion crushed and the entire planet united against him. The only chance for angron to win is if the emperor sent the custodes or devoted a legion of space marines to conquer it. On top of that nuceria was willing to join the imperium outright meaning if he helped angron in his failed revolution he now would have to destroy large portions of a civilization they would have willingly followed him. There was no reason to do anything more for angron than pick him up and keep the crusade moving
@arkhaan7066 This. Lots of Primarchs failed or deal with the insecurity of perceived failure (looking at you, Fulgrim), but Angron was the biggest bag fumbler out of them pre-heresy, especially in the metrics Big E cared about. Dude was the equivalent of an incompetent West Pointer and Big E just saw that further investment in developing him past a melee bomb to throw at the enemy was a waste of time.
@@arkhaan7066Big E could've left him there to die with his warriors, which is exactly what Angron wanted. He wanted to die a free man, which is why he HATED the Imperium so much, he saw it as nothing more than a slaving empire under a different coat of paint, said as much to Leman Russ, even heavily implying that the nails were the only thing keeping Angron loyal at all.
46:24 I just have the image of Angron doing the Omni-man “think” meme towards Guilliman and Lorgar is in the background just yelling “TESTIFY” with Word Bearers doing a choir
I love that scene because it shows how BOTH of them are wrong but Robute is SPECIFICALLY wrong. Like yeah sure, Angron is wrong for letting his past define him rather than trying to move on. But Roboute is wrong because he is telling a guy with PTSD to just "get over" it, and claims that Angron's nails are the reason Angron joined the traitors when in fact Angron is the one person who is in constant control of his Nails.
@@worldeater2414 Guilliman may be my favorite Primarch but even I can see how wrong Guilliman was. Angron got the worst treatment a Primarch had period in my opinion.
@anirecapped. I don’t think you understand just how much Angron’s past affected who he became. Also it’s not about “who’s doing more bad things” because yeah of course it’s Angron doing more bad things killing all those people. THE ARGUMENT GUILLIMAN AND ANGRON HAVE IS WHAT WE’RE TALKING ABOUT!! Guilliman can’t really say anything to Angron because he was given the treatment of a prince, a king, a savior; Meanwhile Angron was a slave and a Gladiator. The point is that Guilliman is trying to basically tell Angron to get over his past while Guilliman has no idea just how awful his past was.
@anirecapped. Dude. We're talking about the argument. Of course on the grander scale Angron is in the wrong. However, Angron makes good points when arguing against Guilliman. You said it yourself, Angron was treated the worst and despite you seemingly not noticing; It heavily affected who Angron became. In the overall situation, Angron is in the wrong, but Guilliman lost the argument because while he was treated as royalty Angron was nothing more than a tool for the entertainment of rich nobles. Guilliman’s argument was basically just “get over it” which is easy to say when you haven’t experienced what Angron has.
Malcador to his dying friend "We planned this from the beginning. The imperium is made for man, not post humans. He needed warriors to complete his plan, but once they are no longer needed. We planned on them destroying each other."
On that point about Vegas: it's not supposed to exist. It's not that God blinked, it's that humanity went full "Tower of Babel" in the middle of the desert to recreate Sodom and Gamora combined into one... Cities need a certain amount of natural resources (water, arable land, building materials) to exist, and/or it needs trade economy to make up for what it lacks (which requires ease of access and/or a desired commodity). We basically redrew the landscape for there to be enough natural resources (mainly water) to support a city and manufactured the desired need for trade (go gamble; it'll be fun), otherwise a city couldn't exist there.
thing with the devourers is: they ESPECIALLY cant keep up with angron because they are the world eaters terminator division. and because terminators are these huge bulky pieces of armor with the weight of a tank, theyre extremely slow. slower than a regular space marine in power armor, and waaay slower than a pissed of angron charging into battle. and because the world eaters are basically using only melee weapons and frontal charges into anything and everything, the devourers are usually the last people to arrive in a fight. when angron and the regular world eaters have already either finished the fighting or have been utterly gutted. coupled with the fact that angron really despised the implication of him needing an honour guard to protect him or him being important enough to be entitled to an honour guard (the man would kill people just for calling him "lord", he really hated everything that reminded him of what a bigshot he was) and you are gonna have a terrible time being a devourer. like the worst time of any world eater.
I now want to see a preacher of the Ecclesiarchy doing something like that for the Imperial Guard. Imagine a Sororitas going "LET THE EMPEROR USE YOU, BROTHA!"
Given that the Enperors mercy is a euphemism for being quickly executed, usually via bolt round to the back of the head, Angron being the embodiment of the emperors mercy is so apropriate.
Angron got the shortest end of any stick he was handed, and he still beat the breaks off everyone he fought. Much love for the guy. Death Guard please?
58:26 Also, the moment Sanguinius ripped the Nails out, Angron "died" and felt peace and tranquility for the last time ever, just before Khorn "revived" Angron to make him fight eternally
I'm gonna be completely honest.Russian Badger is the only reason I ever found out about war hammer.It's the only reason that I keep loving war hammer no matter how much I try
41:18 funny thing is guillimen or dorn one of the two had a moment where malcador gave them back their memories of the missing primarchs and their legions and they immediately just said that if either of them where around to that day there would never had been a heresy because there wouldn't have even been a fight. it is stated the loyalists would have straight up lost immediately
If there is any proof that the emperor lightly planned the Heresy it's how he treated Angron specifically. It's like he wanted him to end up in the clutches of chaos. -Isyander
I actually agree. But I don't think that was the original plan. Angrons og power was copeium. That would be a bad thing to give chaos. If angron still had his powers, big e probably would of dropped off troops and munitions instead of taking angron and letting the slave traders own the planet. That's some spite right there. Big e got there and found a broken tool and decided to give that one to chaos goodwill
despite having nails in his head the traits that survived in angron are justice through his opposition to imperial slavery. And his loyalty shown when he sacrificed himself to lift a titan off of lorgar. If the emporer had that earned his loyalty he might not be on life support.
I still say that Big E, in his planning, sacrificed the 2 missing Primarchs to be able to talk to the chaos gods, and then he had to give half of his children to the chaos gods just to get the knowledge and abilities to make them in the first place.
I really dislike the new canon that "the emperor had deals with chaos", because then he's no longer their equal, and then they are 100% going to win, which kills the spark of hope that is there in 40k. And good horror needs hope, if there's no hope then why fight at all? I prefer the idea that thwy fell to chaos by themselves, and the Emperor was constantly pruning his plans as things failed: the Lost either fell to chaos or tried to ascend to "Godhood" (whatever they did, it fits the concept) so it forced His hand to destroy them. With Angron, Emps just got terribly fucked and, on that moment where he found him, he was scrambling for someway to fix it: "can I heal Angron? We must take him to Terra as soon as we can, maybe there's a solution! What, he doesn't want to go because he's got emotional? Nonsense, the lives of a few dozen men aren't worth his power! Let's move on before this gets even shittier... " and then he finds out there's no fixing it, all his effort on making the ultimate diplomat, the one that would convince everyone to calm down and talk, is instead a crazed berserker incapable of sheating his weapons, after so many millenia of planning... As much as the Emperor likes to present himself as perfect, he himself says he is not a god, and he shows in his many failures that he can't do everything.
@@enriquejoseantequerasanche6180 I mean there's still hope for the universe outside the Emperor. I don't think he was ever their equal I think something about his existence was just anathema to them like he's their weakness or something like it so while he is VERY strong he isn't actually as strong as them he's just toxic to them so they needed his sons to be able to strike at him. He never really acted like their equal at all just like some form of threat theso I don't get why you'd want to be attached to that since it just makes the lore make less sense overall. Regardless there is still hope for the 40k universe even if Chaos isn't dealt with how the Emperor wanted it to be just like....stop being assholes and dicks and doing war and work towards a more peaceful universe where the Immaterium is as a result...more chill. The Tau are making a thing humanity could be making progress on the whole not being horrific and therefor feeding horror to the Immaterium. Eventually we could potentially become incorruptible or figure out how the webway machine works and get it running sans Emperor. Hell the Votann give me more hope than the Emperor ever did for real And personally him making a deal for half his sons makes sense like if Big E was their equal he would just wound or kill one of them enough for the others to team up and them take them down one at a time but no he needs an empire and primarchs so he was clearly never a match power wise. It also makes more sense than the Emperor a 20000 year old super big brain cold and calculating man being all "oh gosh my son is hurt what do oh no oh gee oh golly" like a sitcom character whose wife is giving birth. That seems outright comically inept like a manager at McDonald's could handle that situation better. He could've solved this problem with NO losses or risk in max a few hours and he would know that isn't going to be the difference between life and death for Angron but will be the difference between having a good son vs a son he'll lose. It makes all the sense if he's made a deal with Chaos to give up half of his sons but didn't specify which just that half of them WILL fall and he realized Angron was already fucked so push him to their side so Chaos gets the broken son. The alternative is the Emperor is wildly incompetent and that's honestly really boring and weird narratively
Blood for the Twelfth, Skulls for the Primarch! Thank you for doing my legion, I shall make an edit to tell yall how you do after I have watched the full video.
Nothing like coming home from a day at work that you was supposed to have off to get on youtube on ya trusty computer just to find a new Isyander and Koda Vid....I AM UNGODLY HAPPY. Speaking of UNGODLY, DEATHGUARD 100% anyone else should be melted down to goo.
"This is what it meant to be alive. Humanity was a wrathful species and anger vindicated all of it's sins. Nothing was as honest as rage. Throughout the history of the human race, what release of emotion had ever been more worthy and true than depthless anger? A parent confronting their child's killer. A farmer defending his family against raiders. The warrior avenging the deaths of his brothers? In rage, anything was justified. It was the highest state of sentience. With rage comes vindication. And with vindication comes peace." The Butcher's Nails, Aaron Dembski-Bowden
I'm so glad Kota mentioned the DH @44:05, would LOVE to see you guys cover some of the Alternate Universe fan projects like the Dornian or Roboutian Heresy!
Angron's backstory is easily the most tragic of the primarchs by a mile. He really never had the chance for a decent life or to have even an ounce of respect, progress, or peace. And time and again he is right about what the primarchs are, just a bunch of tools of war and nothing else It fucking blows, man
I always had this theory that the Emperor treated Angron the way he did, is not because The Emperor planned the heresy but he saw that if Angron managed to avoid the butcher's nails or if he had just kept enough of his sanity to beat the nails, it would be Angron that would end the Emperor. If a kind Angron defected, the rest likely will. Angron would've been the worst threat for the Emperor simply because he'd be the most capable of changing minds and calming everyone to be able to see the Emperor for who he truly is, and that possibility is something the Emperor couldn't possibly ignore.
I’m sure yall already know this, but your personalities go a long way in making these videos enjoyable “You definitely do, but that’s neither here nor there” absolutely killed me at 9:28
"Rot, decay, entropy. There are no other absolutes. To deny me is to deny those fundamental truths, to stall the inevitable. No matter the strength of will standing against me, the might of arms assembled and deployed, all will fall. The Plague God cannot be denied, cannot be defeated, for he is the natural way of things - and their end." The Pale King.
Talking about the world eaters not following the plan, during The Heresy, has me envisioning them charging in yelling LEEERRROOOOOYYYY JENKINS! Also Death guard please.
Death Guard next, they are my favourite pre heresy legion! Angron's story is easily the strongest evidence that Big E planned the heresy. I think he took one look at how much of a failure he had been compared to his other sons and decided, right then and there "Okay, Chaos can have this one, let's make sure they pick him, mercy is useless anyway."
Now I want an alternate take where Angron either never has to fight the Eldar, or after he kills one of them, they recognize it would be a self fulfilling prophesy, and run away in a way that leads him to a better situation.
absolutely LOVE the content. I was recently dragged into 40k and your videos are my FAVORITE way to learn about the lore. will BINGE EVERYTHING on this channel now
He said blood wave and all I could think was Korn and is followers on surf boards. Also I need a Korn episode now. Blood for the Blood God, Skulls For The Skull Throne, Milk For The Korn Flakes
honestly, I think this adds to the theory that the Emperor planned the Heresy to some degree, isolating the worst legions and pushing them away so that when half of them fell to chaos, like he predicted they would and planned for, the best legions would still be on his side, and he could win the heresy. as shown by him keeping the imperial fits as close to him as he could while treating the world eaters like crap. I don't think he knew everything that was going to happen, but he definitely didn't isolate the world eaters, burse Mortarion's ego, and let the night lords get worse and worse, by accident. I vote Death guard please. the High lords can pass into the outer darkness for all I care they can't be that interesting compared to an entire legion.
Big E could have won by keeping the flawed legions engaged in a war of attrition with the orks. For that matter Big E could have done the same with his Thunder Warriors rather than have the space marines kill them as their deaths would buy time for Big E to prep for The Beast who is coming to Terra.
You know…for all the grief the Space Wolves get for their whole “Wolf, Wolf, Fang, Fenris”, I am surprised that same criticism isn’t leveled at the World Eaters for the whole “Blood, Blood, Skulls, Eight” convention.
I like the comparison of "quit your day job to do something better" and "DO SOMETHING ABOUT your day job" as The twisting of chaos and explanation of and aspect of Khorne.
I do wonder if part of the reason the Emperor is so terrible to Angron is that Angry represents the parts of himself that Jimmy Space hates the most. If Big E thinks that's he's too soft because he doesn't like what he needs to do, and here's the embodiment of his empathy and mercy failing to take his home world and nearly being killed by regular humans? This could just be Neoth's self loathing.
With so many Primarchs being mirror images of each other & so many of Big E's talents doubled amongst them, I have the firm belief that when Big E was doing Warp shenanigans in their creation, a deal was made that half of his sons were to go to chaos. Hence Big E's actions to pick & choose which of his sons fall to chaos.
42:35 - Oculus Imperia covered a fun moment in the Isstvan lll Atrocity, where Angron completely derailed Horus' strategies by charging at their enemies - meaning the traitors couldn't fire without hitting their own forces. Angron very likely contributed to turning a quick massacre into weeks of fighting. (edit: accuracy)
I always felt like the relationship between Angron and Gulliman wasn't explored enough. When BigE got to Nuceria, it was part of the Ultramarine Empire. Angron is angry at BigE for being a despot and not saving his gladiators but Gulliman was literally the overlord of the planet that enslaved him.
@@LAHFaust look, you can dislike Guilliman and the Smurfs all you like but what you said in your original post is just not true. Besides that, Guilliman hated nobles like the high riders--after all, it was nobles like them that murdered Konor.
@@LAHFaustno, really. A map of the 40k universe shows Nuceria being just outside Ultramar. This does lead to an interesting question of if Guilliman had gone just a tiny bit further, how much different things could've been.
I would love to have a deathguard episode and that quote of "I won't be remembered if I set and do nothing but if I leave a big enough scar; you'll HAVE to put my name in the headlines" has kinda stuck to me for my book I am slowly but surely writing that is a fantasy detective noire.
Loyalist War hounds are cool. There are a few stories where a Berzerker wakes up from the blood haze and realises what the nails did to them..... And want revenge.
Great video as always! A few things to clear up though - Angrons nails affected him duffrently due to the fact that his primarch brain was incomatible with them. The high riders decided to cut out whole parts to force them in. - due to the nails Angron lost both his primarch aura and his empathy power. - Kharn is the biggest chad in 40k dont @ me. - Big E is actually a big L - Death guard please Looking forward to more awesome videos in the future!
You should have touched on how Khorne is the only one who has given angron Peace. Each time Agron Dies he is given 8 hours 8 minutes and 8 seconds of peace, before Khorne reforges his body and throws him back into the fray.
How the Emperor treated Angron lends credence to the fan theory that to create the Primarchs the Emperor made a deal with chaos and part of that deal is half their number would fall to chaos, but neither party knew who would. Big E probably took one look at Angron and thought, thanks for volunteering.
This episode's theme music is Lost and Found by Senses Fail: "This is the part where I admit I'm getting what I deserve" Because say what you will, but juuuuuuuuuuust about everyone involved with the World Eaters has that moment, up to and including the part of Big E's perpetual psychic headache labeled "Angron." Soak it in, Neoth, _you earned it._
Canon. Santa is a Grey Knight. Bound a cornate demon into a jacket and hat. Bound 9 slanesh demons to reins. Bound a tzeasch demon to a sleight. Bound a greater demon into a sack of infinite holding. Uses a Votan to make all the toys and gets spat out of the warp every year to deliver gifts.
World Eaters make perfect sense as Air Benders: they have given up on all earthly possessions but the bare minimum, and they only care about a higher philosophy and purpose.
i would say that he could possibly appeal to craftsmen given how he is one himself( created the skull cannon and blood crushers) but he would prefer if they were a weaponsmith. i would think that he would say, "look, my whole deal is blood and murder, and i want all my followers to do it. but as long as you guys keep making weapons for us, we're cool."
Existence is the struggle to exist, and those that do not fight for it are a flaw in the fabric of reality. A failure that just me broken and creased out, either by cold entropy or wanton destruction.
I'm supprised Lotara Sarrin wasn't mentioned, though the video was on world eaters and not there flag ship. I would love to see a video on her if there isn't one on patreon, especially now that she's repledged herself to Angron.
I'm not a particularly sane person, I hold it down but it gets straining sometimes, the PTSD kicks in pretty hard every so often, lore-wise I'm a Blueberry/Imperial Fists/Grey Knights kinda guy, love it, love 'em. When I hear a Khornate-blood dripping World-Eater yelling: "BLOOD FOR THE BLOOD GOD! SKULLS FOR THE SKULL THRONE!" or "BLOOD, BLOOD, BLOOD, BLOOD, BLOOD, BLOOOOD!!!" or "DESTROY FOR THE SAKE OF DESTRUCTION!" I get about 3 threads away from joining in fully, the fact its lore is about all that keeps me together, "this is fantasy bUt BLOOD, BLOOD, BLOOD, BLOOD..." etc., my god, when you're gaming or running or lifting, I swear I gain a +25% boost to everything, reaction time, precision, everything just clicks xD @Servo Skull Victus has great playlists for each legion, I highly recommend it for communing with the dark gods or the Emperor's might. Great video as always.
Dont forget, Khorne doesn't just love melee. He also loves orbital bombardment, dogfights in low orbit, ship to ship broadsides, etc. Violence between peers at any level is great.
Snowball fights for the Blood God
@@qxeenaquila It needs to be able to kill or at least draw blood.
How is orbital bombardment a battle between peers?
@@sunbreakerqueenofbronze621 Surface to orbit cannons.
@@OrdemDoGraveto make an ice ball then it'll draw blood.
Khornes sales pitch is literally " hi kids do you like violence"
Do you want to have 8 inch nails stuck behind our eyelids?
Yes
“If I makes me like dad…”
@@HighwaytoHoserville😂
Slim Shady being a World Eater
"Your son is nothing but a ghost."
"A ghost will do."
That line goes SO hard
Yeah honestly that's really the only thing anyone should need to know about the Emperor on whether he has his son's best interests at heart.
Like holy FUCK dad.
To be fair, the emperor could have taken his son's suffering just like Angron died, but he chose not to. He showed him, better than anybody else, that suffering is inherent to what they were going to do. That it was a part of life and that they had to bear it. Vulkan understood but he tried to make things the right way, even if it was hard and painful. I think that the Emperor saw the reflection of a part of himself right there. All his dreams and plans were pushed forward as he saw more visions of the distant future. He knew that he needed to do horrible things and that he would have to bear that suffering alone. Malcador could be with him but he couldn't bear his grief, pain and burden, even if Malcador understood it very well. Just like Angron had nobody to share his pain with, the Emperor hadn't one and he needed his son to understand that the only way to overcome it was to push it, to be himself and be better, not die in self loathing. A ghost will do, because after what they both had seen and gone through, they won't be anything else, and even then, both had the spark to keep pushing but for different reasons. The Emperor could have done things better, but he is not perfect and as sometimes can be seen, he expects his children to strife for more. To fight for the future and to reflect about why things are a certain way. Only a few did and other even misunderstood it, but he couldn't explain it and tell them everything because they wouldn't have listened or learnt from it and he needed them to understand by their own means
@@PragabondI mean, given the absolute fuck up that angron was up to that point, why should the emperor do anything differently?
Angron failed every single benchmark for being a halfway decent primarch. Every single one. He couldn’t even unite his own planet. His start wasn’t any harder than Kurze, or Corax, or Sanguineous, or Mortarion. And yet despite that all he achieved was a doomed rebellion that would have required significant interstellar support to survive let alone win and the mutilation of his brain because he couldn’t even escape a gladiator pit.
Why in the world would the emperor devote any kind of resources to supporting this failure? Especially when Nuceria joins the imperium willingly without a fuss, and ends up staying loyal?
I try to imagine why the Emperor would do that.
Maybe he wanted Angron to become stronger through loss.
Maybe he knew that Angron was going to betray him and was playing 4D chess with the infinite future possibilities.
Or he was just a bad dad.
@@williansnobre If the Emperor "knew Angron was going to betray him", then he would also be aware that _he's_ the one who _gave_ Angron the biggest reason to betray him.
Don't attribute to malice what can be atteibuted to incompetence. *The Emperor was a bad dad.*
The irony of the literal God of War being one of the most chill and reasonable MFers in a universe called *Warhammer*
Chill is a relative term. He’s just easily entertained. Nurgle gives you disease but takes away your pain. Slaanesh gives you everything you want but also magnifies all the negatives. Tzeentch? Idk why anybody would knowingly serve the ultimate backstabber playing a game of 5d chess. Khorne wants violence and grants boons for more violence when you commit violence.
@@giantninja9173I can’t get better at 5d chess if I’m not actively playing against someone who has mastered 5d chess.
@@PaleCrestedWolf except it’s 5d chess. Tzeentch already beat you the day you were conceived. He already butterfly affected the circumstances leading up to the game.
@@giantninja9173"the ultimate backstabber" lol Tzeench doesn't constantly back stab his followers tell me you know nothing about tzeench without telling me you know nothing about tzeench
@@NeloBladeOfRannihe doesn’t constantly but it’s more like playing roulette. When you win you win big. But you still have to high chance of getting fucked over. Notably his most well known followers in 40k got fucked over hard.
To complete the unfinished quote:
"According to the laws of physics, it is impossible for Angron to fly. But through his sheer rage, he does it anyway."
So when Sanguinius rips out the butchers nails from Angrons head, it takes part of his skull with him. And when he does this I believe, he sees that there is no brain in Angrons head, just a bundle of the butchers nails within his skull. When Big E first brought Angron up, he knocked him out and had Arkhan Land examine him, and the nails were so embedded, that the parts of Angron's brain that had been cut out to fit the nails had begun to be shaped and replaced by the butchers nails, like they would coil into the shape and attach in a way similar to those missing pieces of his grey matter. What seems to be the case is that this is what was killing him, pieces of his brain slowly being replaced fully by the butchers nails, so when Lorgar made him a daemon, Khorne just decided to complete the process, so now the nails are literally Angrons brain, there will never be a separation.
That part in Master of Mankind was very interesting.
Angron lost his empathic powers when the nails were first implanted
*unless sanguinius comes back to pull on his pigtails again.
Another vote dedicated to the 12 hour Heresy video. Blood for the Blood God, Skulls for the Skull Throne, Video for the Algorithm
Yes!!!
Milk for the Khorne Flakes!
I KINDA feel bad when that happens
yes give me 12 hours of this!!!!
@@ZergOverlord9374pp. T
What is so tragic about the death of the Warhound psychers is that one librarian dreadnought in particular cared so much about stopping dads ascension to demonhood he got uncomfortably close to killing Lorgar. Actually had Lorgar on the back foot as he was so horribly injured the singular dreadnought was pounding him into the dirt. Then Angron saw his buddy getting fucked up and DELETED the last librarian dreadnought.
It wasnt a librarian dreadnought, it was lhorke, the first chapter master of the warhounds, he was just a legionary, he didnt want to see the world eaters descend further into madness, due to him not having the nails, he could see where things were going, other than that you are correct though, had he have been left to his own devices he would have killed logar, he already had him serverly maimed, you may be getting confuses as the legions librarians had a mental battle with logar to weaken him and they used lhorke during it
"This is a List of Khornate massacres. YOU CAN HELP BY EXPANDING IT."
I now understand why I love these episodes. Isyander gets to passionately tell the lore of warhammer 40k and Koda is genuinely listening and is fascinated. Isyander is getting the reactions that every 40k fan wants when trying to get their friends into the lore.
SKULLS FOR THE SKULL THRONE
Give me the death guard
BLOOD FOR THE BLOOD GOD
Corn for the Khorne Flakes
@@ViruZ42 And whatever Lotara Sorintz wants.
CORN FOR THE KHORNE COBS
88 likes... it's too perfect (and the only reason you don't get more)
One of my favorite things about Angron’s speech to Guilliman is that he never stopped thinking about it. it lived rent free in his head all the way into the modern age. And it’s actually an argument he references in the dark imperium thinking about whether or not Guilliman’s right to support the Imperium.
Unexpected Badger? In my 40k chat? Swaws.
Also, about the "skulls for the Golden Throne thing", we all know "Khorne cares not from where the blood flows, only that it does", but I remember one of the "you died" quotes from Space Marine being "success is measured in blood, yours, or your enemies", which is fun to see more layers of Chaos hallmarks just being in Imperial parlance with no-one the wiser.
One of the most fun things about world eaters is the fact they weirdly got along with the blood angels to the point angron was almost calm around sang
To be fair I think him being calm around Sang had more to do with psyker abilities over him liking Sanguinius. His aura just physically soothed the pain from the butcher's nails which I mean I'm sure does make someone more likeable but that's beside the point. It is cool to know they got along surprisingly well. Given Angron was supposed to be the nice boy and Sanguinius is the nice boy it makes sense their sons would get along.
Angron hates Sanguinius because everyone kept comparing him to our vampire boy by giving him a nickname " Red Angel " and it made him resent Sangi.
the Big E is just a parent that doesn't hide that he plays favorites. He likely organized his kids into 1)Kindred spirit 2) Unquestionably useful tool 3)Meh 4) Barely useful weirdo 5) Sanguinius
1) Dorn, Guilliman, Horus, Vulkan, Fulgrim, Magnus
2) Perturabo, Angron, Russ, Lorgar
3) ?
4) Kurze
I don't feel like the Lion, the Khan, Mortarion, Corax or Ferrus fits any of those. As for "Meh"... Alpharius maybe.
@@lykos2738 I would have thought that Lorgar would go under 4. After Monarchia but before the Heresy he’d be 3. The Khan is easily 3. As is Ferrus. Mortarian would be between 3 and 4. I wanna say Corax is 1 for some reason? Alpharius I’d also say is 3, maybe 4. The Lion… 2 I say. And I disagree with Angron, he should be 4.
So I’d go
1) Horus, Guilliman, Magnus, Vulkan, Corax
2) Dorn, Russ, Lion, Perturabo, Fulgrim
3) Khan, Ferrus, Mortarion, Alpharius
4) Lorgar, Angron, Curze
@@israeldelarosa5461 the reason I listed Lorgar under 2 was because when the Emperor found him, Lorgar was (ironically) fighting Chaos before anyone knew what Chaos was. You are being surprisingly hard on the Khan and Dorn. Ferrus doesn't have enough lore to be classed I think. I kind of get what you say about Corax though. In Lord of Shadows he pulls some emperor-grade asshole moves. Essentially to the entire planet of Deliverance "figure it out stupid, I got more important shit to do".
@@lykos2738 The lion is somewhere between 1 and 2 he's the emperor's executioner and the only one he trusts with a bunch of archeotech in order to fulfill that duty
There's a world eaters warband called gladiator's cadre 331 who still wear the old war hound colors and still keep their customs like the triumph rope and reject the butcher's nails as much as possible.
Unless I’m mistaken, in “Angron Slave of Nuceria,” the World Eaters or “War Hounds” were described as phalanx fighting, slow defensive fighters before they met Angron. Crazy how far they fell.
Yes, Phalanx and Shield Wall tactics
Its wild that Khorne is a legitimately better father to Angron than the Emperor ever was.
To be fair almost nothing is a worse father than The Imp
still abusive, but in a different way.
Khorne re-made him as a brainless slave with the nails permanently part of his physiology. He can't talk, he suffers eternally as a slave (the one thing he never wanted to be again), and even his wings (the mark of honor among daemon prices) barely work. Khorne hated him and remade him as a joke.
Angron actually hates Khorne too, and exclaims that its simply another form of slavery for him right before he goes entirely insane.
I get the impression that the moment Angron had the butchers nails implanted into him, he was no longer fit for the Emperor's purpose and stopped caring, doing the absolute bare minimum (saving his life) and moving on
There was a bit about big E and another scientist on Terra looking into removing them but it would've killed angron so they said screw he's fine like this then.
@@dakotawharton he also very specifically said that the information would never leave the group, and i think Malchador even wiped the memory of the Tech Priest giving that information.
I had a WE player charge Angron directly towards my Cerastus Lancer, whiff his charge, and then get one-shot by said lancer the next turn. Now nobody will fight my knights anymore.
As a world eater player this is very shruggable.
Lancers pretty reliably kill Angron.
50:22
Fun fact! Occasionally, people in 40K are in horrific pain or are falling the Chaos or are just a bit icky, and thus are executed. And that is described as "showing them the emperors mercy".
Crazy how angron's sons used their father like pokemon. Just locked him up and when they are ready to use him just go "Angron I choose you" and immediately just drop a whole demon on the battlefield.
At first they spent all their time trying to get him to come OUT of containment and now they straight up work to throw him in it
That's probably intentional honestly
DEATHGUARD, praise be to the Lore Emperor of Mankind Isyander
My unhinged theory on why the Emperor treated Angron so poorly is because the Emperor vaguely knew that he would be stuck on the golden throne one day. The Emperor needed one of his sons to simply hate him enough to kill him on the throne and allow him to regenerate/ascend.
That is a very unhinged theory but it does a better job explaining why the Emperor would be that blatantly shitty for absolutely no reason than the original lore does
Woah new headcanon.
No need for something that convoluted.
Angron literally didn’t warrant any effort from big E.
As a primarch Angron failed every single thing a primarch was meant to do or be long before the emperor found him. Couldn’t lead warriors to victory in a war, couldn’t defeat the greatest threats personally (iirc angron has been beaten by more enemies than literally any other primarch), couldn’t lead a population, couldn’t unite a planet.
All he could do was fight moderately well, and get good warriors killed.
So when the emperor arrives to meet his son, that son is on the verge of death to normal humans, his rebellion crushed and the entire planet united against him. The only chance for angron to win is if the emperor sent the custodes or devoted a legion of space marines to conquer it.
On top of that nuceria was willing to join the imperium outright meaning if he helped angron in his failed revolution he now would have to destroy large portions of a civilization they would have willingly followed him.
There was no reason to do anything more for angron than pick him up and keep the crusade moving
@arkhaan7066 This. Lots of Primarchs failed or deal with the insecurity of perceived failure (looking at you, Fulgrim), but Angron was the biggest bag fumbler out of them pre-heresy, especially in the metrics Big E cared about. Dude was the equivalent of an incompetent West Pointer and Big E just saw that further investment in developing him past a melee bomb to throw at the enemy was a waste of time.
@@arkhaan7066Big E could've left him there to die with his warriors, which is exactly what Angron wanted.
He wanted to die a free man, which is why he HATED the Imperium so much, he saw it as nothing more than a slaving empire under a different coat of paint, said as much to Leman Russ, even heavily implying that the nails were the only thing keeping Angron loyal at all.
46:24
I just have the image of Angron doing the Omni-man “think” meme towards Guilliman and Lorgar is in the background just yelling “TESTIFY” with Word Bearers doing a choir
I love that scene because it shows how BOTH of them are wrong but Robute is SPECIFICALLY wrong.
Like yeah sure, Angron is wrong for letting his past define him rather than trying to move on. But Roboute is wrong because he is telling a guy with PTSD to just "get over" it, and claims that Angron's nails are the reason Angron joined the traitors when in fact Angron is the one person who is in constant control of his Nails.
@@worldeater2414 Guilliman may be my favorite Primarch but even I can see how wrong Guilliman was. Angron got the worst treatment a Primarch had period in my opinion.
Reading the "testify" in the same tone as the guy from "we invented this opera shit"
@anirecapped. I don’t think you understand just how much Angron’s past affected who he became. Also it’s not about “who’s doing more bad things” because yeah of course it’s Angron doing more bad things killing all those people. THE ARGUMENT GUILLIMAN AND ANGRON HAVE IS WHAT WE’RE TALKING ABOUT!! Guilliman can’t really say anything to Angron because he was given the treatment of a prince, a king, a savior; Meanwhile Angron was a slave and a Gladiator. The point is that Guilliman is trying to basically tell Angron to get over his past while Guilliman has no idea just how awful his past was.
@anirecapped. Dude. We're talking about the argument. Of course on the grander scale Angron is in the wrong. However, Angron makes good points when arguing against Guilliman. You said it yourself, Angron was treated the worst and despite you seemingly not noticing; It heavily affected who Angron became. In the overall situation, Angron is in the wrong, but Guilliman lost the argument because while he was treated as royalty Angron was nothing more than a tool for the entertainment of rich nobles. Guilliman’s argument was basically just “get over it” which is easy to say when you haven’t experienced what Angron has.
Malcador to his dying friend "We planned this from the beginning. The imperium is made for man, not post humans. He needed warriors to complete his plan, but once they are no longer needed. We planned on them destroying each other."
BLOOD FOR THE BLOOD GOD! SKULLS FOR THE SKULL THRONES OF ISYANDER AND KODA!
HELL YA!!!
And don't forget the blood for the armor
@@jasonroberts4470Milk for the Khorne flakes.
Potatoes for the tater bucket!
...what, only me? Phooey.
On that point about Vegas: it's not supposed to exist.
It's not that God blinked, it's that humanity went full "Tower of Babel" in the middle of the desert to recreate Sodom and Gamora combined into one... Cities need a certain amount of natural resources (water, arable land, building materials) to exist, and/or it needs trade economy to make up for what it lacks (which requires ease of access and/or a desired commodity). We basically redrew the landscape for there to be enough natural resources (mainly water) to support a city and manufactured the desired need for trade (go gamble; it'll be fun), otherwise a city couldn't exist there.
My favorite part of the Sangi V Angron fight is Horus mentally calling Angron going “PLEASE KILL HIM PLEASE!”
thing with the devourers is: they ESPECIALLY cant keep up with angron because they are the world eaters terminator division. and because terminators are these huge bulky pieces of armor with the weight of a tank, theyre extremely slow. slower than a regular space marine in power armor, and waaay slower than a pissed of angron charging into battle.
and because the world eaters are basically using only melee weapons and frontal charges into anything and everything, the devourers are usually the last people to arrive in a fight. when angron and the regular world eaters have already either finished the fighting or have been utterly gutted. coupled with the fact that angron really despised the implication of him needing an honour guard to protect him or him being important enough to be entitled to an honour guard (the man would kill people just for calling him "lord", he really hated everything that reminded him of what a bigshot he was) and you are gonna have a terrible time being a devourer. like the worst time of any world eater.
The Guards of Death shall be victorious
Yes brother
THE LORDS OF NIGHT!
AVE DOMINUS NOX!
26:57 "a ghost will do" jesus christ that's insane, jeez Neoh show some of that empathy you supposedly have
Fun fact that was skipped over when angron had to watch all his gladiators die he was so pissed that he beat one of the nearby custodes to death
Lorgar pulled a classic southern church choir move as Angron thrashed Guiliman. "And the Rock cried out, NO HIDING PLACE!"
I now want to see a preacher of the Ecclesiarchy doing something like that for the Imperial Guard.
Imagine a Sororitas going "LET THE EMPEROR USE YOU, BROTHA!"
Given that the Enperors mercy is a euphemism for being quickly executed, usually via bolt round to the back of the head, Angron being the embodiment of the emperors mercy is so apropriate.
Angron got the shortest end of any stick he was handed, and he still beat the breaks off everyone he fought. Much love for the guy.
Death Guard please?
58:26 Also, the moment Sanguinius ripped the Nails out, Angron "died" and felt peace and tranquility for the last time ever, just before Khorn "revived" Angron to make him fight eternally
I'm gonna be completely honest.Russian Badger is the only reason I ever found out about war hammer.It's the only reason that I keep loving war hammer no matter how much I try
Kharns story "the wrath of kharne" started the whole journey of 40k when i was 11 years old. Its been 25 years of love for this universe since.
41:18 funny thing is guillimen or dorn one of the two had a moment where malcador gave them back their memories of the missing primarchs and their legions and they immediately just said that if either of them where around to that day there would never had been a heresy because there wouldn't have even been a fight. it is stated the loyalists would have straight up lost immediately
I cast my vote for Mortarions death guard.
Thanks for aiding my sanity during the work week. You guys are top tier lore lords.
"Why aren't they super fast then?" He says about the legion who used to try and speed run every planetary invasion in a single day.
Honestly, I believe The emperor gave up on Angron on purpose, because he represents something The emperor doesn't need. But, what do you guys think?
If there is any proof that the emperor lightly planned the Heresy it's how he treated Angron specifically. It's like he wanted him to end up in the clutches of chaos.
-Isyander
@@IsyanderandKodaA Interaction for the Interaction God, a Comment for the Comment Throne, for the Almighty Algorithm
I actually agree. But I don't think that was the original plan. Angrons og power was copeium. That would be a bad thing to give chaos. If angron still had his powers, big e probably would of dropped off troops and munitions instead of taking angron and letting the slave traders own the planet. That's some spite right there. Big e got there and found a broken tool and decided to give that one to chaos goodwill
@@IsyanderandKoda and that is a lie as it was Alpharius in disguise of emperor and it went to Alphariukses plan and it was a lie
despite having nails in his head the traits that survived in angron are justice through his opposition to imperial slavery. And his loyalty shown when he sacrificed himself to lift a titan off of lorgar.
If the emporer had that earned his loyalty he might not be on life support.
I still say that Big E, in his planning, sacrificed the 2 missing Primarchs to be able to talk to the chaos gods, and then he had to give half of his children to the chaos gods just to get the knowledge and abilities to make them in the first place.
I really dislike the new canon that "the emperor had deals with chaos", because then he's no longer their equal, and then they are 100% going to win, which kills the spark of hope that is there in 40k. And good horror needs hope, if there's no hope then why fight at all?
I prefer the idea that thwy fell to chaos by themselves, and the Emperor was constantly pruning his plans as things failed: the Lost either fell to chaos or tried to ascend to "Godhood" (whatever they did, it fits the concept) so it forced His hand to destroy them. With Angron, Emps just got terribly fucked and, on that moment where he found him, he was scrambling for someway to fix it: "can I heal Angron? We must take him to Terra as soon as we can, maybe there's a solution! What, he doesn't want to go because he's got emotional? Nonsense, the lives of a few dozen men aren't worth his power! Let's move on before this gets even shittier... " and then he finds out there's no fixing it, all his effort on making the ultimate diplomat, the one that would convince everyone to calm down and talk, is instead a crazed berserker incapable of sheating his weapons, after so many millenia of planning...
As much as the Emperor likes to present himself as perfect, he himself says he is not a god, and he shows in his many failures that he can't do everything.
@@enriquejoseantequerasanche6180 I mean there's still hope for the universe outside the Emperor. I don't think he was ever their equal I think something about his existence was just anathema to them like he's their weakness or something like it so while he is VERY strong he isn't actually as strong as them he's just toxic to them so they needed his sons to be able to strike at him. He never really acted like their equal at all just like some form of threat theso I don't get why you'd want to be attached to that since it just makes the lore make less sense overall.
Regardless there is still hope for the 40k universe even if Chaos isn't dealt with how the Emperor wanted it to be just like....stop being assholes and dicks and doing war and work towards a more peaceful universe where the Immaterium is as a result...more chill. The Tau are making a thing humanity could be making progress on the whole not being horrific and therefor feeding horror to the Immaterium. Eventually we could potentially become incorruptible or figure out how the webway machine works and get it running sans Emperor. Hell the Votann give me more hope than the Emperor ever did for real
And personally him making a deal for half his sons makes sense like if Big E was their equal he would just wound or kill one of them enough for the others to team up and them take them down one at a time but no he needs an empire and primarchs so he was clearly never a match power wise. It also makes more sense than the Emperor a 20000 year old super big brain cold and calculating man being all "oh gosh my son is hurt what do oh no oh gee oh golly" like a sitcom character whose wife is giving birth. That seems outright comically inept like a manager at McDonald's could handle that situation better. He could've solved this problem with NO losses or risk in max a few hours and he would know that isn't going to be the difference between life and death for Angron but will be the difference between having a good son vs a son he'll lose.
It makes all the sense if he's made a deal with Chaos to give up half of his sons but didn't specify which just that half of them WILL fall and he realized Angron was already fucked so push him to their side so Chaos gets the broken son. The alternative is the Emperor is wildly incompetent and that's honestly really boring and weird narratively
Blood for the Twelfth, Skulls for the Primarch!
Thank you for doing my legion, I shall make an edit to tell yall how you do after I have watched the full video.
When he said he bought a Russ tank CASH I lost it at work. Well played
Nothing like coming home from a day at work that you was supposed to have off to get on youtube on ya trusty computer just to find a new Isyander and Koda Vid....I AM UNGODLY HAPPY. Speaking of UNGODLY, DEATHGUARD 100% anyone else should be melted down to goo.
"This is what it meant to be alive. Humanity was a wrathful species and anger vindicated all of it's sins. Nothing was as honest as rage. Throughout the history of the human race, what release of emotion had ever been more worthy and true than depthless anger? A parent confronting their child's killer. A farmer defending his family against raiders. The warrior avenging the deaths of his brothers? In rage, anything was justified. It was the highest state of sentience. With rage comes vindication. And with vindication comes peace."
The Butcher's Nails, Aaron Dembski-Bowden
I'm so glad Kota mentioned the DH @44:05, would LOVE to see you guys cover some of the Alternate Universe fan projects like the Dornian or Roboutian Heresy!
Angron's backstory is easily the most tragic of the primarchs by a mile. He really never had the chance for a decent life or to have even an ounce of respect, progress, or peace. And time and again he is right about what the primarchs are, just a bunch of tools of war and nothing else
It fucking blows, man
I always had this theory that the Emperor treated Angron the way he did, is not because The Emperor planned the heresy but he saw that if Angron managed to avoid the butcher's nails or if he had just kept enough of his sanity to beat the nails, it would be Angron that would end the Emperor.
If a kind Angron defected, the rest likely will. Angron would've been the worst threat for the Emperor simply because he'd be the most capable of changing minds and calming everyone to be able to see the Emperor for who he truly is, and that possibility is something the Emperor couldn't possibly ignore.
I’m sure yall already know this, but your personalities go a long way in making these videos enjoyable “You definitely do, but that’s neither here nor there” absolutely killed me at 9:28
Isyander, it's actually logical: 3's and 9's are just 8's that got the crap beat out of them and lost limbs. Perfectly kosher with Khorne
The emprah didn't blink. He yawned. One of those yawns that forces you to close your eyes and doesn't lets you hear for as long as it is going on.
"Rot, decay, entropy. There are no other absolutes. To deny me is to deny those fundamental truths, to stall the inevitable. No matter the strength of will standing against me, the might of arms assembled and deployed, all will fall. The Plague God cannot be denied, cannot be defeated, for he is the natural way of things - and their end." The Pale King.
The way my jaw hit the floor when Big E said “a ghost will do” good lord
Talking about the world eaters not following the plan, during The Heresy, has me envisioning them charging in yelling LEEERRROOOOOYYYY JENKINS!
Also Death guard please.
Horus: Oh my God he just ran in...
@@JP-dt5sv Mortarion: STICK TO THE PLAN!!!
Death Guard next, they are my favourite pre heresy legion!
Angron's story is easily the strongest evidence that Big E planned the heresy. I think he took one look at how much of a failure he had been compared to his other sons and decided, right then and there "Okay, Chaos can have this one, let's make sure they pick him, mercy is useless anyway."
Now I want an alternate take where Angron either never has to fight the Eldar, or after he kills one of them, they recognize it would be a self fulfilling prophesy, and run away in a way that leads him to a better situation.
Check out the Roboutian Heresy for that
Angron had so much empathy that he immediately wanted to kill the Emperor, Literally the good part of you removing the bad part of you
SKULLS FOR THE SKULL THRONE, BLOOD FOR THE BLOOOOD GOOOD
Thanks for the world eaters episode guys!
I love how these videos are getting longer and longer. It makes me happy that they are adding more content to each weekend
Khorne : Values honesty
Also Khorne: Main mortal champion is called Karn the *betrayer*
He was very honest about his betrayal
absolutely LOVE the content. I was recently dragged into 40k and your videos are my FAVORITE way to learn about the lore. will BINGE EVERYTHING on this channel now
BLOOD!!! FOR!!! THE!!! BLOOD!!! GOD!!! SKULLS!!! FOR!!! THE!!! SKULL!!! THRONE!!!
Sp*rm for the sp*rm whale
He said blood wave and all I could think was Korn and is followers on surf boards.
Also I need a Korn episode now. Blood for the Blood God, Skulls For The Skull Throne, Milk For The Korn Flakes
Lorgar: "Welcome to the Church of God in Chaos, Brother Angron!"
Corvus: OH YOU LEFT YOUR TIMEOUT ROOM?! I'M ON MY WAY!
A stream that is nothing but Isyander and Koda playing Darktide has my vote.
honestly, I think this adds to the theory that the Emperor planned the Heresy to some degree, isolating the worst legions and pushing them away so that when half of them fell to chaos, like he predicted they would and planned for, the best legions would still be on his side, and he could win the heresy. as shown by him keeping the imperial fits as close to him as he could while treating the world eaters like crap. I don't think he knew everything that was going to happen, but he definitely didn't isolate the world eaters, burse Mortarion's ego, and let the night lords get worse and worse, by accident.
I vote Death guard please. the High lords can pass into the outer darkness for all I care they can't be that interesting compared to an entire legion.
Big E could have won by keeping the flawed legions engaged in a war of attrition with the orks. For that matter Big E could have done the same with his Thunder Warriors rather than have the space marines kill them as their deaths would buy time for Big E to prep for The Beast who is coming to Terra.
You know…for all the grief the Space Wolves get for their whole “Wolf, Wolf, Fang, Fenris”, I am surprised that same criticism isn’t leveled at the World Eaters for the whole “Blood, Blood, Skulls, Eight” convention.
BLOOD FOR THE BLOOD GOD! SKULLS FOR THE SKULL THRONE! but I get what u mean abt the 8s
Khorne does not care WHERE the blood flow, as long as it flows. But he does care HOW the blood flow.
I like the comparison of "quit your day job to do something better" and "DO SOMETHING ABOUT your day job" as The twisting of chaos and explanation of and aspect of Khorne.
I do wonder if part of the reason the Emperor is so terrible to Angron is that Angry represents the parts of himself that Jimmy Space hates the most. If Big E thinks that's he's too soft because he doesn't like what he needs to do, and here's the embodiment of his empathy and mercy failing to take his home world and nearly being killed by regular humans? This could just be Neoth's self loathing.
With so many Primarchs being mirror images of each other & so many of Big E's talents doubled amongst them, I have the firm belief that when Big E was doing Warp shenanigans in their creation, a deal was made that half of his sons were to go to chaos. Hence Big E's actions to pick & choose which of his sons fall to chaos.
42:35 - Oculus Imperia covered a fun moment in the Isstvan lll Atrocity, where Angron completely derailed Horus' strategies by charging at their enemies - meaning the traitors couldn't fire without hitting their own forces.
Angron very likely contributed to turning a quick massacre into weeks of fighting.
(edit: accuracy)
“… and collecting skulls and blood. It is enough to make the Red Cross jealous.” That was a brilliant and under appreciated line.
1:07:08
I always felt like the relationship between Angron and Gulliman wasn't explored enough. When BigE got to Nuceria, it was part of the Ultramarine Empire. Angron is angry at BigE for being a despot and not saving his gladiators but Gulliman was literally the overlord of the planet that enslaved him.
Really twists the knife when guilliman carelessly crushed a gladiator skull during their duel on nuceria
Nuceria was NEAR Ultramar, but it wasn't brought into Macragge's sphere of influence. Guilliman had NOTHING to do with Angron or the High Riders.
@@Cheesecakeman105 Sounds like Smurf propaganda to me.
@@LAHFaust look, you can dislike Guilliman and the Smurfs all you like but what you said in your original post is just not true. Besides that, Guilliman hated nobles like the high riders--after all, it was nobles like them that murdered Konor.
@@LAHFaustno, really.
A map of the 40k universe shows Nuceria being just outside Ultramar.
This does lead to an interesting question of if Guilliman had gone just a tiny bit further, how much different things could've been.
I would love to have a deathguard episode and that quote of "I won't be remembered if I set and do nothing but if I leave a big enough scar; you'll HAVE to put my name in the headlines" has kinda stuck to me for my book I am slowly but surely writing that is a fantasy detective noire.
Loyalist War hounds are cool. There are a few stories where a Berzerker wakes up from the blood haze and realises what the nails did to them..... And want revenge.
3:30 “Not the step-father per se but the father that stepped up” I absolutely love that line
Great video as always! A few things to clear up though
- Angrons nails affected him duffrently due to the fact that his primarch brain was incomatible with them. The high riders decided to cut out whole parts to force them in.
- due to the nails Angron lost both his primarch aura and his empathy power.
- Kharn is the biggest chad in 40k dont @ me.
- Big E is actually a big L
- Death guard please
Looking forward to more awesome videos in the future!
You should have touched on how Khorne is the only one who has given angron Peace. Each time Agron Dies he is given 8 hours 8 minutes and 8 seconds of peace, before Khorne reforges his body and throws him back into the fray.
The Emperor and The Philosophies of 40K would be banger episodes
How the Emperor treated Angron lends credence to the fan theory that to create the Primarchs the Emperor made a deal with chaos and part of that deal is half their number would fall to chaos, but neither party knew who would. Big E probably took one look at Angron and thought, thanks for volunteering.
This episode's theme music is Lost and Found by Senses Fail:
"This is the part where I admit
I'm getting what I deserve"
Because say what you will, but juuuuuuuuuuust about everyone involved with the World Eaters has that moment, up to and including the part of Big E's perpetual psychic headache labeled "Angron." Soak it in, Neoth, _you earned it._
"It would tie the whole room together" was the best quote from here ~ in reference to the emperors
KHORNE SAID ITS MY TURN ON THE SPACE MARINE
I got another one: satan claws
Like a wave of pestilence we shall advance, like the rust that inevitably sets in, we will arrive. The Death Guard shall show you grandfather's gifts
Canon. Santa is a Grey Knight.
Bound a cornate demon into a jacket and hat.
Bound 9 slanesh demons to reins.
Bound a tzeasch demon to a sleight.
Bound a greater demon into a sack of infinite holding.
Uses a Votan to make all the toys and gets spat out of the warp every year to deliver gifts.
The Khorne/World Eater Philosophy part shows just how thin the border between the two red chapters with winged primarchs are.
World Eaters make perfect sense as Air Benders: they have given up on all earthly possessions but the bare minimum, and they only care about a higher philosophy and purpose.
Wrong, the opposite, they are too attached to their anger and what originated it.
I have now watched this for sleep aid for the 8th time.
Sleep for the blood god, zzz's for the skull throne!
Harriers for the cup!
If you get that reference, the Valhallan 597th smiles upon you
In the grimdark future of the universe there is only "Just wait, it gets worse!"
Just what i need before going to sleep
The emperors skull would really tie the room together. Lmao, that's probably the best quote I've heard from you guys
i would say that he could possibly appeal to craftsmen given how he is one himself( created the skull cannon and blood crushers) but he would prefer if they were a weaponsmith. i would think that he would say, "look, my whole deal is blood and murder, and i want all my followers to do it. but as long as you guys keep making weapons for us, we're cool."
Existence is the struggle to exist, and those that do not fight for it are a flaw in the fabric of reality. A failure that just me broken and creased out, either by cold entropy or wanton destruction.
I'm supprised Lotara Sarrin wasn't mentioned, though the video was on world eaters and not there flag ship. I would love to see a video on her if there isn't one on patreon, especially now that she's repledged herself to Angron.
I'm not a particularly sane person, I hold it down but it gets straining sometimes, the PTSD kicks in pretty hard every so often, lore-wise I'm a Blueberry/Imperial Fists/Grey Knights kinda guy, love it, love 'em.
When I hear a Khornate-blood dripping World-Eater yelling: "BLOOD FOR THE BLOOD GOD! SKULLS FOR THE SKULL THRONE!" or "BLOOD, BLOOD, BLOOD, BLOOD, BLOOD, BLOOOOD!!!" or "DESTROY FOR THE SAKE OF DESTRUCTION!"
I get about 3 threads away from joining in fully, the fact its lore is about all that keeps me together, "this is fantasy bUt BLOOD, BLOOD, BLOOD, BLOOD..." etc., my god, when you're gaming or running or lifting, I swear I gain a +25% boost to everything, reaction time, precision, everything just clicks xD @Servo Skull Victus has great playlists for each legion, I highly recommend it for communing with the dark gods or the Emperor's might.
Great video as always.