The 'Rose Without A Thorn' Killed While Still A Girl | Katherine Howard | Henry VIII's Fifth Wife
Вставка
- Опубліковано 6 кві 2024
- Katherine Howard was Henry VIII's youngest, and most tragic wife. She was born into the nobility, but lived a childhood devoid of love, attention, and was neglected by those who were meant to care for her, leaving her vulnerable to the attentions of men. When she became England's queen, her desire for the wrong kind of attention left her open to a dangerous game with her lover, and would end on the executioner's axe...
For my images and footage, thanks to:
Pexels
Pixabay
Wikimedia Commons, especially:
Bernard Gagnon
Ricardalovesmonuments
Many of my images in this video were made with Midjourney, see if you can spot which ones!
I strive to always credit everyone whose images I use, and try as much as possible to use images freely in the public domain (purchased where not possible) - please let me know if I have missed you so I can give you due credit. - Розваги
People say "it was a different time"...I still think she was a child, used and abused by older men since she was 13. Poor thing had no clue what she had gotten herself into. Her story is the most tragic among all the wives, even more than Anne Boleyn.
Yes
I'm glad someone besides myself thinks this way.
@@user-fg9xz4bz3bI most certainly agree, thankfully her real story can be told.
She was too young to die that way.
Absolutely! Even in the 16th century, people around Katherine definitely knew they were taking advantage of her and turned a blind eye or carried on.
She wasn't stupid. She was a traumatized teenager with nobody to stand up for her or teach her how to take care of herself and her own best interests. She was used and abused by many predatory men.
Agreed - I do make that very clear in the video. My thumbnails for this series are using words that have been used to describe Henry's queens, rather than my own feelings on them.
Please clarify the distinction between being stupid your statement. Intelligence is typically defined as: the capacity for abstraction, logic, understanding, self-awareness, learning, emotional knowledge, reasoning, planning, creativity, critical thinking, and problem-solving.
Why on earth would anyone "confess" to adultery and/or pre marital sex when there's zero evidence? It makes zero sense when you know what the likely outcome will be?
@@annabizaro-doo-dahshe was bullied into confessing so the King wouldn’t be wrong.
I think these men were looking for anything and probably supported Katherine of Aragon behind the scenes. He should have just divorced her but unfortunately other people were dragged into this and lost their lives.
If there's a Hell, I'm sure Henry VIII is there, not because he's not Catholic but because of how he treated his own family...
Yes, KH8 was bad. But, his head injuries, especially the one in January 1536, may have been the cause of his crazy.
@@KDSima head injuries hmmmm 🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔
@@PhDrSeuss it is true. If u care u can read the following articles -Quartz by Olivia Goldhill February 6, 2016;
-Discover, By Emilie Le Beau Lucchesi
Aug 3, 2022 6:00 AMAug 2, 2022 1:54 PM
-Himmelfarb Library News. Disorder in the Court #9: Traumatic Brain Injury, rgbril January 23, 2023
The Himmelfarb article discusses Richard Ramirez, Jeffrey Dahmer, John Wayne Gacy, and Ed Gein. Four well known US Serial Killers. The other two articles are about KH8. Henry went from being fairly reasonable, even tempered king to a murderous tyrant who killed upward of 55,000 people in fairly short order.!
@@PhDrSeuss Yes. If you are interested in it there are a number of articles that discuss it.
Live Science, Head Case: Henry VIII Beheaded Wives Due to Head Injuries?
By Sara G. Miller. February 10, 2016;
Discover, By Emilie Le Beau Lucchesi
Aug 3, 2022 6:00 AMAug 2, 2022 1:54 PM;
GW Himmelfarb Health Sciences Library
Disorder in the Court #9: Traumatic Brain Injury
Author
rgbrill
Published on January 23, 2023
I don’t do the greatest job with sourcing information; but I think it is all there. The Himmell article is actually about four well known US serial killers, and their brain injuries.
@@PhDrSeuss if u r interested in the possibility there is a lot of information available. It is a real thing. Well documented by a number of scholars and neurologists.
A child who was never allowed to simply grow and flourish. The way she was taken advantage of by everyone around her was a travesty.
I know right, at least now her story can be told truthfully. I’m thinking of writing a fanfic in which my male lead goes back in time and he and Katherine fall in love. Katherine comes with the guy back to the future so that they can be together, and get married.
She was chattel
That has been true of many children and most female children for a very long time.
Childhood as we know it now didn’t exist back then. Children were treated like miniature adults.
@@ALT-vz3jn exactly- and royal children were just political and financial pawns
Katherine Howard didn’t deserve the fate she got.
She certainly did not, that poor girl deserved so much better, she deserved love and happiness.
@@jmwilliamsart most definitely, although she may have done wrong by the law at the time she was still a teenager and should not have been punished that harshly
I agree: in her situation, I would have done the same. It was natural for her to want to experience love and desire with someone of her own choice, and there was nothing wrong to cheat in an arranged marriage.
@@kimm.8800 definitely
@@jmwilliamsart- Id say most of us deserve love & happiness.
Some actually luck up and get it.
A portion that group, have love, protection and happiness, but fail to realize and appreciate and respect what their husbands have given them.
And use their safe position, while harming / injuring others that are not so fortunate.
I myself never found love and happiness. I was young and naive .... Intelligent, talented but very naive. I did learn though ...i had to deal with a few harrowing events, and think things thru very carefully.
I didnt mean to write such a long message. Please understand your comment struck a chord in me.
Finding compassion for her is a sign that humanity is evolving. For how many hundreds of years was she blamed for her fate vs understood as an abused neglected child?
Katherine deserved better than this, she deserved love and happiness.
@@jmwilliamsart planet earth, its not always a happy loving place lol
It's, as you say, a good sign that humanity is becoming more passionate. Even at her own death, Katherine warned people not to 'follow her example', and felt she was a 'fallen woman'.
I agree: in her situation, I would have done the same. It was natural for her to want to experience love and desire with someone of her own choice, and there was nothing wrong to cheat in an arranged marriage. She was guilty of adultary: but in her case, there was nothing morally wrong with it.
@@evestreeThat doesn’t mean that we can’t try to make it a much nicer, happier place.
Poor sweet young girl. She obviously had a heart of gold. I have always heard that however vapid and silly she may have acted in life, she died with dignity... every bit a Queen. RIP Queen Katherine. ❤❤❤
She does seem to have been a very kind-hearted girl who just behaved...like a teenager with no guidance, and honestly, I wish I could reach through the ages and give her a hug because she seems so alone at times.
Beginning in grade school and through getting a bachelor's degree (biology) I never once had a teacher who cared a whit about having students learn dates for historical events. But, situations like the ones that arose in Henry VIII's court amply illustrate why dates should be emphasized. If you read a history of Henry and you don't learn day-month-year dates, you can easily get the wrong idea about how long it took him to dispatch his wives. It all happened fairly quickly once Henry laid eyes on Anne Boleyn. But, without knowing exact dates, you can easily get the impression that it must have taken decades and decades.
Your teacher needed to "go back to school"and further HIS/HER education then. 😱😱😱
I'm so glad I was educated in a time when history and dates were important.
I taught my son often by making illustrated or blocked out timelines that he could walk around on the floor. We started simple, attached to whatever history he was being taught at school. It really helps give a foundation for the human experience. When you're young, a year seems forever. Making out complimentary timelines really helps us understand. Even on a larger scale, one might compare a Henry viii's timeline w Montezuma's & a revelation about the world is made. Example: Henry viii is born 1 yr before Columbus sets sail banked by Isabella & Ferdinand. Go on from there exploring the Columbian Exchange, etc.
I always felt terribly sorry for her. Henry VIII was such a cruel man.
I always feel so bad for Katherine. Her story is nothing but tragic.
Henry 8, like his father, was a waste of breathing space.
@@lefantomer imagine being so petty to put your wrong agenda on what's not even the subject of talk
Ironically. She would probably have had healthy children. Henry mustve had brain rot.
There is an argument for that!🇺🇸
I think he was a psychopath as well as lost his marbles, at that point
I wonder if that was why she slept around. She knew the importance of giving Henry a son,and cullpepper was very similar in colouring and genetics. ?
I think that by the time King Henry VIII married Katherine Howard, he was completely impotent. Grossly overweight, more than likely had high blood pressure, diabetes type II, both of which will render a man impotent. Even the pain of a stasis ulcer with a constant drainage of foul smelling pus. Henry had rotting parts, but it wasn’t necessarily his brain.
This could be true, as Henry enjoyed jousting when he was younger. He had hit his head many times and we know right now that head injuries can change a person's behavior.
poor Katherine she had no love in her life, and she was groomed by older men she mistook sex for love and there are a lot of women who made the same mistake.
I have sincere sympathy for all of the six wives of Henry VIii
Out of all of Henry the VIII's wives, Katherine Howard was THE most unlucky one of them all. Used, abused, manipulated, and throw out like trash. One has to wonder; what would have happened if she hadn't been mistreated in her early years of life. Things would have definitely been different for her
I feel so awful for Katherine, she didn’t deserve any of this. That damn Cranmer he used Katherine to take down the Howard family faction.
holly I am completely in accord with you, enrique 8 was a very bad tryant, a womanizer and a jerk, poor Katherine Howard
I think his treatment of Catherine Aragon was disgusting, and his treatment of Ann Boleyn was terrifying as well. Henry VIII had no compassion. No real ability to love anyone. He was a monster.
Truly one of English history's most tragic women. 😞
Jane Boleyn was quite a viper. She willingly testified to the nonsensical idea that George Boleyn had an incestuous relationship with his sister, Queen Anne Boleyn. If I wasn't so opposed to the death penalty, I'd almost think she got exactly what she deserved.
Also, your illustrations really add to the story. They're beautifully done. Every one of your videos has them, and even though we know many of these people have no existing portraiture, your illustrations bring the story to life in a way that the videos of other historian's lack.
I hate to speak ill of people, but I do agree with you about Jane Boleyn. I'm sure there were reasons why Jane became who she was, but she really doesn't seem to have cared too much about hurting people, either. I'm not saying outside influences didn't contribute to that, but she wasn't the only noblewoman exposed to them.
And thank you so much about my images, that means so much! ☺ I really try to use actual portraits where possible, but there's usually only one or two (or as you say, often none at all!), and until I have a budget to rival the BBC's and can hire actors for my documentaries, I figure it's a good way of trying to imagine these people in life. 😂
In her new biography, it has been shown that Jane Boleyn was probably not nearly as evil as she had been made out to be. In fact, there is even no evidence that she actually testified against her husband and sister in law. Apparently most of lawn the things she was accused of for centuries were rumours and slander.
It sort of makes sense now, Katheryn, someone with daddy issues, and Henry, someone with mommy issuses. I don't know why I never thought of it that way before.
How do you figure that henry viii had mommy issues?
@@user-fg9xz4bz3b He lost his mother at a young age, who he was close too, and had a difficult relationship with his father.
Broken people often find each other in life - just a shame that one of them was a monarch used to casually being rid of people who had 'wronged' him.
I live in Horsham and walk past Chesworth House regularly. It’s beautiful. A private residence so you can’t visit it and it’s shielded from view but you can see what it’s like online as it was sold some years ago. I think it was on the market for £6 million. The grounds are lovely and reach down to the river Arun flowing close by. Even though she suffered neglect in childhood, she must have enjoyed that house and grounds. It really is lovely. And maybe she visited St Mary’s, the 800 year old church with a tall (slightly crooked) spire visible from the grounds near the house. She could have walked along the river bank towards the Church and town as I often do now.
A sad story of a neglected, sexually abused child who was basically forced to marry an obese, smelly, old man, found love in all the wrong places, and paid a heavy price for her poor choices.
Thanks! Whenever hearing Katherine's story I always get the urge to hug and Mother her. Poor tragic girl.
I know right, that poor girl deserved to be loved and to find happiness.
Thank you so much! I really appreciate it. 😊 And I feel the same way about poor Katherine. It's sad that she didn't have anyone to guide her. Even if she had simply not got wrapped up in an affair with Culpeper, I think she would have had a pretty nice life - and I say that as someone who detests Henry VIII.
The most heartbreaking part is that she seemed to really care for Henry, even if it wasn't in spouse romantic way and was more of her longing to be loved and get attention from someone, especially such a powerful💔
Despite her tragic end and all circles of abuse she unknowingly endured her whole life and maybe even an unhappy afterlife, we still should remember this detail: She was a karma for Henry for the way he treated every other of his wives! while in other cases it was him cheating on his wife and humiliating her, with Katherine Howard however, pages turned around and he finally faced what it felt like to be second or even last choice for your spouse, he faced the suffering he had put on every other of his wives and if you ask me, a perfect circle of life, even though it would've been better had Katherine survived😢
You're right - even though it ended in the death of poor Katherine Howard, at least Henry got to feel something of the pain he caused his wives. It definitely became something that dwelled on his mind as he grew closer to death, and I'll cover that in Katherine Parr's story. 😊
@@HistorysForgottenPeople oh, I'm looking forward to it💗💗💗
@@HistorysForgottenPeopleIndeed, Henry deserved to suffer. I hope that there’s a way to give Katherine’s spirit the love that she was denied in life so that her spirit will find peace.
I’m thinking of writing a fanfic in which a decent guy from our time gets sent back to Katherine’s time and they fall in love. He finds a way to bring her back to the future with him so that she can avoid her tragic fate. They will definitely get married in his time since she will be of legal age 18-19. It will be challenging to help her adjust to modern times, but he will be there for her every step of the way.
And it would have been even better if Henry had a stroke and Katherine become Queen of England !!! But sadly, it was not to be.😡. just saying
@@annanardo2358Indeed, and she hopefully would’ve found herself a decent lover for a change, someone who truly loves her.
The rose without a thorn etc., although one tragic history it was pleasant to listen too 'short and sweet' down to earth. '
I feel bad for all Henry VIII’s wives. I don’t think he treated any of them right. It was sad that in that time being married at 12/13 was far too common. But, in that time, a person’s life span wasn’t what it is now. I do have to admit that this is my favorite time period to read about.
Great video on Katherine Howard. Such a tragic fate for a young lady who was used and abused by people around her throughout her life. Thanks for your continuous dedication providing high quality content, your visuals and storytelling are always delightful 😊❤
She deserved better, I wish that I could go back in time and give her affection, and romantic love.
Poor child! Katherine Howard was abused and used her entire short life. 😒
a truly sad tragic story of Catherine's life, she was a young girl in many was innocent and nieve, she certainly didn't deserve to be executed. Superb as always thank you.
I feel so awful for poor Katherine 😢. I wish that I could go back in time, fall in love with her, get her to marry me (instead of Henry) and we could live our lives together.
@@jmwilliamsartShe needed money ...Do you sport any dosh?
Poor, doomed Katherine. Thank you for this very thorough coverage of what happened to her over the course of her short life that led to her tragic end. I found it especially interesting that Elizabeth had been close to her and that Katherine's execution was a factor in Elizabeth's decision never to marry.
After losing her mother that way then her stepmother. Not surprised
I was abuse since birth and finally got married at 13 we been together for 53 years and now I am his caregiver paying him back for taking care of me and our children.. we been lucky so many get married and divorce when things are tuff.. but I knew tuff life before marriage so I learn how to weather out the storms that came in our life… find a good man keep him, times back than was different most women never live above 20 in that time..
53 yrs....that's beautiful. With more to come❤❤❤❤
I'm so sorry that happened to you when you were young, but I'm glad you found happiness with your husband. ❤
Married at 13? Wow
She was 14/15 yrs old. Still a child and to become Queen would’ve been a huge shock to her. It was a bitchy, conniving court so she stood no chance.
One thing I noticed is that all the wives look extremely similar. Its possible that Katherine most likely looked like Anne Boleyn. Maybe that could have been the other reason why portraits of her were also burned.
They were related, so it's possible there were some prevailing family features that were prominent for both of them.
Maybe ... I think we all do also need to realize those are kinda glamorized, Vogue-mag.-lookin' portraits? ☺ used here, sometimes, too, to "stand in" for the actual people? lol. Really well, caringly researched, though -- Good job on that, imo! 🥰 🙏 👏
See Henry VIII and run as far as you can
Very well done and informational video. We seem to hear the least about Katherine, when it appears that her story is so very tragic. As a teenager she would have had difficulty making the best choices at times, as most teenagers do. The 16th century was hard enough for females, let alone a very young female who found herself married to King Henry VIII, and what that would entail. My sympathies to the poor girl.
I think by then Henry couldnt even consummate the marriage
Poor Henry, one would despise his fate, and his character. But we really can't judge the tragedy centuries later. We have enough unjust tragedy nowadays to consider and suffer through.
Poor Katherine - her story has always been one of the ones that truly hit the hardest. The reality is, she was a very immature, VERY young poorly educated teenager, who was taken advantage of, sexually groomed & abused, SA’d, and because it all was happening in such an important time for her developmentally, I think it’s quite clear that the early abuse severely impacted her - she was so thirsty for love that she did what many of the basically powerless women did in that time - she used her body to get attention and equated sexual abuse with affection.
She and Thomas both were honestly pretty much still children, and I think her eventual death can be clearly laid directly at the feet of the Countess, Norfolk and the revolting bloated & stinking despot lunatic of a King.
I suspect she was honestly just glad to finally be free of all the pain, fear and uncertainty.
RIP Katherine. You poor child, you absolutely deserved better.
KH8 was impulsive and erratic during the last decade of his life. This possibly can be attributed to the traumatic brain injury in January 1536. Brain injuries are a real problem.
Great video! Just a teenager that was lost! It’s a sad story😢
It’s not like she had any say in the relationship with Henry VIII. None of his wives did. I doubt aside from Katherine of Aragon, none loved him and probably didn’t want to marry him.
That’s not completely true. But, he was a disgusting man
A victim of a very strong patriarchal society. She had absolutely no agency, no father (around to protect her). Therefore, men felt they could use her as they did. I'd like to think, even if for a short while, with an abundance of beautiful clothes, dancing and being the 'top' lady she had a bit of fun at court before she died!
And when she finnally used agency by choosing a man she actually wanted for a lover after having been pressured in to an arranged marriage - she was executed for that agency. Truly sad how people still, in this day, feel a need to "excuse" her, as if she had done something wrong. In her case, she did nothing wrong by cheating - there is nothing wrong with cheating in an arranged marriage.
She wasn't a "child". She was a Queen. She knew what she was doing was treason and she knew the consequences if she got caught. So did the chamber groom she kept hooking up with. It's not for me to say she did or didn't deserve her fate, but she certainly sealed it. She made a choice, took her chances, and lost. It was a stupid thing to do.
So glad the algorithms tossed this my way! I love these sort of deep dives. Liked & subscribed! Greetings and respect from Colorado, US 😊
Thank you, great to have you here! ☺
Not one but 2 wives that he executed and both those wives are cousins. Now those two wives are buried next to each other.
How do you know that?
@@user-fg9xz4bz3b
It’s documented…
I always felt sorry for her, she was just a child
I don’t know how people could still be chummy with the king when he had beheaded their cousin,sister or child .All of the royals and aristocrats were related by blood,marriage or close association that led to some very messy relationships.
I feel just compassion for this young girl. Her situation was hopeless.
Poor Katherine.abused and used by People around her.
All those poor woman
I love your snide aside about Henry thinking that he was still Heaven’s gift to women-if he ever actually had been! My heart goes out to poor Katheryn. All of the “adults” in her life couldn’t be bothered with her until it was too late, and then she got the lion’s share of the blame (Granny Howard basically got a slap on the wrist). Katheryn paid with her life for the gross negligence of others. How truly shameful!
I personally think Katherine was innocent of adultery and Culpepper was a pervert while henry viii was a hypocrite and a murderous pig.
@@user-fg9xz4bz3bI wholeheartedly agree, and I’m thinking of writing a fanfic in which a guy from our time travels back to this time and he and Katherine fall in love. He brings her back to the future with him so that they can be together happily.
I hope you write it someday.
I would definitely read that! ❤️
Henry’s most tragic wife imo, and by far :(
While I think her relationship with Culpepper, whatever nature it had, was a stupid thing to get into, I also believe her situation then was complex, and, in any case, it wasn’t that which led to her downfall (or began it).
Also, pro tip to Dereham: don’t blackmail someone when you’re part of the thing you’re blackmailing people with💀
Have a nice week :))
Hi friend. Let’s take A moment to think about Catherine Howard. 😔
Wonder if her marriage was her own choice or not.
You're absolutely right, and I agree - her situation was already difficult before Culpeper was part of things. Katherine was a very broken little soul, I think, and that informed all decisions she made after that point. And agreed with Francis Dereham! Not the sharpest tool in the shed. 😂
@leeannproctor47 there's a lot of debate about that, especially as her uncle Thomas Howard was eager to get the Howard family back on top, and Katherine herself was at least somewhat ambitious. It makes you wonder if she was sold on the idea on the basis that Henry was already old, and therefore may not live much longer? It would have been treason to say it, but perhaps Thomas Howard saw a future with Katherine as queen dowager with a son, and they might take over 'looking after' young Prince Edward...
@@DarthDread-oh2ne yes :(
Always feel so sorry for all these poor women
Out of all the six wives I feel like Katherine least deserved the life of a queen, she wasn't like the other Tudor women who were clever or strong or influencial she was literally just a poor girl
How Katherine was treated is a product of the times. Women were, in actuality, property and used however the owner saw fit, i.e., her father, brother, etc. Being someone's lover at such a young age was normal for the times. The life span was about 30-35 years in the 1500s. A young teen was probably the prime of life for most people.
Katherine was stunningly beautiful if thats really her in her portrait! 😱
Fascinating, thank you. It's all nature when there is no nurture.
That's a fair point!
The poor girls had CPTSD...
what did king expect??? he was ugly she was beautiful of course she wanted someone else
😂😅😂😅😂
And what about loyalty to your king? 😅
I always find your videos fascinating, and this one didn't disappoint. Many thanks for the hard work and research that must go into each one.
Missed your videos last week.
Thank you so much! It's worth it every week when you guys enjoy them. 😊
Most commentators conveniently forget that Henry's family's rise to the monarchy, was a bloody path, that involved some heavy blunt instruments.
Preserving Henry's dynasty was paramount.
Exactly. Henry’s father winning the crown on the battlefield and ending the war of the roses left Henry terrified of another civil war and fueled his obsession for a male heir. He may have been a tyrant, but he had to be.
Poor Katherine, so young and a Tyrant of a King !!!!
I wonder if affairs happend because they knew that he killed any wife that did not give him a son. Hoping that if in secret she conceived a child that they just had to get away with them finding out there was an affair.
Henry the viii was a tyrant....
I absolutely love your channel. I can't wait to watch your new videos. I'm so sad for Katherine. So was only a teenager that had been so neglected and abused that when she finally had it all, she did what anyone girl in that position would have done. She didn't know any better. How was she going to do anything different with no experience with life. It was unbelievable that she was treated like she was. My heart breaks for what she went through. Henry was an evil monster that acted like a spoiled child and when things didn't go his way he threw a tantrum.
Aw, thank you so much, that means a lot. 😊And I totally agree about poor Katherine Howard. She was a bit silly and shallow, but that certainly doesn't justify what happened to her. She was just a young girl who had a kind heart and wanted to be taken care of and spoilt (who doesn't?), but also no guidance. I just want to be able to reach through time and give her a hug.
I guess blue blood is very bad blood. I've yet to hear anything good. Except crazy George. He was physically afflicted. His wife his rock❤
hello , great share , thank you for sharing🥰🥰🥰🥰🥰🥰🥰............
I feel for Kathryn but she should of been smart enough to know Henry is wicked and hiw ge did his before wives
Enjoyed this. Thank you
Thank you remembering the forgotten🖤
I like to think that Jane Boleyn helped Katherine to commit adultery as revenge for the trumped up charges against her husband George Boleyn.
I've often wonder if jane boleyn deserves the villian status.
Jane Boleyn should have seen the danger.
@@leeannproctor47 exactly! That is why I think Jane helping Katherine was motivated by revenge at the injustice done to her husband and sister in law. It makes more sense to me than assuming she took such a risk out of a love of meddling. Katherine cheating on Henry was serving up to him the reality to mirror the fake charges. The king’s health was also poor during his marriage to Katherine around the time she started meeting secretly with Culpeper - perhaps Jane thought he wouldn’t last long enough to find out.
@@user-fg9xz4bz3b yes, I wondered that too. The evidence against Jane is pretty flimsy…her writing a letter of comfort to George when he was in the tower doesn’t sound like a bitter, neglected wife. I think when Annes ladies, including Jane were interrogated, anything they said, however innocent, was twisted to look bad. Had George believed Jane responsible for the charge against him, why didn’t he say so in his trial and comment on any animosity? He said he was being condemned on the word of one woman, he didn’t say of his wife, when asked to comment on the accusation.
Thank you so much for these videos. So much misinformation is spread by supposedly historical novels. I appreciate that these stories are seriously researched and honestly presented.
I really feel for Anne and Katherine, they deserved so much better.
Katherine Howard made a bad choice, she could have been a faithful wife and waited patiently for Henry’s demise.
She wasn’t very smart. She definitely wasn’t cunning. But she did not deserve what happened to her.
@@MFLimited Under Tutor law she was guilty. When you study historical events it is useful to look at the norms of the time.
You're right, but I think firstly her age has to be taken into consideration (hormones flying around and making us do stupid things still happens now!), and secondly the fact there was no one really acting as a parental figure to keep her in check. But you're right, I always think if she had just been patient, she could have had a really happy life with Henry (despite the fact I despise him) and could have had a second life after his death.
She couldn't choose.
Excellent, thank you!
Thank you, I'm glad you enjoyed it! ☺
Love ❤❤❤ that this video is narrarated by a person!!!! So many times, I'm put off by an AI voice mispronouncing words and the lack of humanism. Subscribing!!!
Oh, I still occasionally mispronounce words, especially with my lisp! 😂 Definitely not AI though. And thank you, it's good to have you here! ☺
@@HistorysForgottenPeople I really am put off by AI narration. It lacks the human response we get from human narration. Which is why I think it aggravates me even more when a computer mispronounces a word or name because it does lack the human experience. History should be presented by those who made it, experienced it. Your channel is very well done!
She was just a child and her family threw her to the wolves for their own gain. The fact that we don't even have an accurate birth year because no one gave a damn enough to record when the girls were born just proves how little they cared about us.
Carherine Howard and King Henry VIII are distant cousins of mine, as well as Anne Bolyn. Its fascinating to heqr stories this old related to my ancestral family tree.
It's a shame that's she's glossed over. What a sad life.
Ok, she wasn't that abused as people think. I can't help but notice how much people saw her over time as either a prostitute or an abuse victim. Sure, her mother was dead and her dad had a lot of debt issues, but Lambeth was a sort of "finishing school" (a school where upper class girls learn upper class stuff, like manners and stuff) and it was common for nobles to send their kids away to other nobles to learn courtly stuff after a certain age.
1. If she had a music teacher, why do some people in the comments act like she was barely literate? During the Early Modern period, it became fashionable to educate girls too (Henry educated his daughters, Mary and Elizabeth, Thomas More did it, Jane Grey and her sisters were educated by their parents, etc). If you wanted to make any impression at court (and this was the whole point of the school), you definitely needed to know to read and write + foreign languages + dancing + singing + other stuff.
2. Katherine most likely had more agency and wasn't a mere passive abuse victim. Why? She was a Howard. That name alone carried weight as the Howards were and still are to this day, an important noble family. If some random teacher did things to her without her consent, he'd risk angering some very powerful people. Her chastity was very important for the marriage market and some nobody affecting the interests of the Howard family could even get him killed. And there is evidence she broke up the relationships she was in, so she definitely had a say in what happened. BUT it is very possible that Dereham did pressure her psychologically. It's not ok, however it's not the same as "she was r**ed".
3. Further evidence of her education is something that few people ever mention: her performance as queen. In the short time she was queen, Katherine Howard played the role perfectly. Ambassador Marillac of France and others praised her demeanour as queen. Every public gesture, every word had to be carefully chosen and she passed the test with flying colours. Katherine was a dutiful and competent queen doing exactly what was expected of her. Sure, she wasn't into Latin translations, but she wasn't uneducated, especially since the court had a very complex structure of ranks and gestures. You had to know what you were doing/saying to avoid offending anyone. Furthermore, the gifts she received included books. She definitely knew how to read and write.
For your number 1 question, Katherine was barely literate - the examples we have of her writing are riddled with spelling and grammatical errors, and her handwriting (for the time) is much worse than other girls of her age. She absolutely was not well educated, and this is a widely known fact.
Number 2: I agree with some of your points, and not others. Yes, I don't think it likely she was raped by Dereham either, for a variety of reasons - she never made that accusation until she realised her life was in danger. However, I wouldn't say she had 'agency' so much as no one was keeping a close eye on what she was doing. It's a little like saying teenagers now might have agency is they choose to smoke or vape just because they aren't supervised at some point. Agnes Howard herself admitted she had been a very lax guardian, (it was considered shocking at the time how little she had been involved), and when she caught Katherine with Francis, she warned her 'not to destroy her beauty'...she was far more concerned with Katherine appearing a particular way in society, in other words. Agnes further proved she wasn't too bothered about chastity when she later remarked it was unimportant that Katherine had sex before marriage.
Number 3: Again, she really didn't have much of a chance to show off queenly skills. She was too young to be involved in any administrative matters, and the closest she came to this was being informed each night how the king was doing. Katherine was unable to make any decisions of her own, and even her ladies-in-waiting were chosen for her by Henry. However, she did prove she would likely have been a kind queen, with her attempting to make things easier for some prisoners in the Tower (which I make mention of). And receiving books as a gift is no different to today - you may not necessarily read them.
Poor girl. There's a reason laws today forbid these types of marriage between young girls and abusive old msen. Thank the Lord.
No, they don’t. Not everywhere.
@@MFLimited Well hopefully most places. I was mostly speaking of the US. I'm not saying all over the world because I don't know enough to say that. There will always be places that hold out, that care nothing for young gjrls.
I would have thought he was finished with women by the time his leg was falling off
You'd think, wouldn't you?! 😂
His ego was so big that it had to be constantly fed. And he was STILL, even at that late date, hoping that he would be able to produce another son. His mother, and especially his grandmother, raised him to think he was the 💩, and since his brother was supposed to be king, he was also raised with very little discipline. He was nothing but a narcissistic, spoiled man child with a crown.
You’re clearly not a man. A man would still pursue women with both legs falling off.
Cranmer got his. Boy!! Such connivings seem so exhaustining. THe Showtime tv program, "The Tudors", portrays the interviews of and finaggling of getting all this info to Henry via laying that note on his chair being conducted by a group of courtiers and led by Bishop Gardner. Cranmer really set this young girl up....WHY? Was he bored after all the machinations of being the center of the hive getting rid of the 1st Catherine?
I found it fascinating that even by the standards of the day, Henry's behaviour horrified Europe.
Eleanor of Aquataine led an actual uprising against her husband and she was imprisioned. Killing a consort was seen as a brutal act. Even Henry II, a king in a war mongering age, showed more restraint then Henry during what was supposed to be an enlightened age.
Henry killed not one, but two of his wives! Usually, they would be imprisioned or put aside (disgraced and shut up in a nunnary, renouncing marriage and leaving the monarch free to marry once more) But Henry made sure to take revenge in the most brutal fasion.
His orders to exicute Margaret Pole was also awful and she met a painful death because of the actions of her son.
Henry was a tyrant. Im glad historians are starting to let go of Holbein image he wanted to project and call him out for his domestic tyrany.
Henry was a fucking hypocrite!
Agnes the Dowager also played her part in the neglect of Catherine.
Katherine must have been exceptionally beautiful, because from age 13 she was desired by every man who met her, even the most handsome ones! It’s a pity that no portrait was ever commissioned for her. Or if it was, it was destroyed.
Hi, awesome live history video. I enjoyed it. How are you doing and your cat Mallard? I'm doing well, and so is my cat Benjamin. We have a solar eclipse tomorrow in Ontario, Canada. I can't wait to see it tomorrow. Have a great day. See you next video. In the next video, in the future, could you do videos on Catherine Carey and Henry Carey. They were children of Mary Boleyn in the Tudor times from the 16th century 😊
Hi Michelle, we're all doing fine this end, it's great to hear you and Benjamin are doing well! 😊 The solar eclipse sounds exciting! And thanks for the suggestion, I'll add them to my list.
God bless you Kathryn x
poor girl heartbreaking story . he was a cruel king Henry he couldn't just exile them
Has anyone considered that perhaps she was just desperate to give her king an heir and figured that was the best way?
I think she was abused in more ways than one so was Anne
Unfortunately this kind of thing was common in these royal family's they put they these young girls through alot
Interesting video
She was 18
We don't actually know her exact age, she could have been anywhere between 16 - 21 when she died.
@HistorysForgottenPeople 😢so young. I thought she was executed in her 20s-30s. Thanks for the story.
The Tudors portrayed her very young.
I love this channel
Aww, thank you so much! I'm glad you're enjoying it. ☺
@@HistorysForgottenPeople Very, Very much so! And congratulations again on your M.A.!
Love letter? Could she even read or write given her lack of education? sounds like a pretty fortuitous find, found at the right time.
It was full of a lot of spelling errors and grammatical errors, in her own recognisable hand, so sadly it was hers.
Yes, she was not completely illiterate. Katherine wrote it. She was not well educated, for her station, she was not very smart, and she was not clever. Poor thing never really stood a chance, married to a perverted, grandiose narcissist.
@@HistorysForgottenPeople Ah, just like the teenagers of today
😂😅 aint that the truth 😂😅@@MissMarquise
They were a load of nosey gossips which led to the execution of a young girl. He could have divorced her and bought her a little cottage. Nasty slanderous, jealous gossips.
It's possible she wasn't buried as commonly stated. When the chapel was renovated in Victorian times, all bodies buried there were identified, except Howard's. No trace of it has been found, prompting an interesting question: what happened to the body? It's like she was annihilated, with neither physical nor graphical trace of her remaining.
Man, see where the writers of soap operas got their ideas for their shows.
It's a sad world.
What a gruesome lot.
14:59 They should pipe that music out at different public places.
Are we calling her stupid because of bad choices in men?! Weeeelllll😒I have made some stupid choices in men myself and when I was older than her with a degree so I guess I am an idiot if that's how we're defining things
If you're referring to the thumbnail, it's following a pattern I used for all the thumbnails in this series, using words that have in the past been used to describe each queen. I certainly don't agree with everything on the thumbnail, perhaps if you watched the video?
@@HistorysForgottenPeople no. That was in reference to the comments. I usually do not question thumbnails. I tend to look at them in terms of freedom of speech/artistic license🤷🏾
She shouldn't have tried to blame and drag someone else into it. This part was awful.