F-4B Phantom II Vs A-4 E-C Skyhawk | Dogfight | Digital Combat Simulator | DCS |
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- Опубліковано 26 сер 2024
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On this channel we like to do a lot of dogfighting most videos are some sort of dogfight between 2 different aircraft as we explore their different capabilities. From time to time I like to dabble in Virtual Reality, I think VR is a great new technology and I love to show that stuff off for the channel from time to time.
If you enjoy war thunder or Microsoft flight simulator 2020 or even dogfighting in Battlefield 2042, consider getting yourself into Digital Combat Simulator by Eagle Dynamics, the Combat side of Aviation with the BVR and Dogfights really provides a different and interesting perspective on aviation. You can fly all kinds of combat aircraft including the F-16, F-15, F-14, JF-17, Su-27, Mig-29, Mirage and the F-18 Hornet along with many other aircraft and helicopters like the Ka-50 and Mi-8.
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Big Thank you to Anarchy420 for the video suggestion and thank you Bradshaw for flying the F-4 for days video, if you have ideas for future videos comment them below, Thank you for watching and much Love.
Day five of asking for j-20 Mighty dragon vs F-22 raptor
Hell yeah! Thanks GS!😁👍👍
Certainly not complaining but it'd been cool to see you go a round or two in The F-4 Phantom😅
Still very grateful! Exceptionally Entertaining!!
@@davidsmith8997 fair fights are for suckers.
Lol you kno I have to do it ;)
F-22 VS Nine North Korean MIG-29's BVR!👍
F-35 VS SU-35 and MIG-31 BVR!👍
I hope we get to see you in the F4! I cant wait to watch you fly one of my favorite planes!
As a former A-4 pilot, ya did me proud!
Cool! USN or USMC?
@@zachboyd4749 USN.
Was it fun
@@MrYoungkimbaVietnam or peacetime?
@@IamVF301 Peacetime, I was only born in 1971
For all you engineering nerds out there like me, loving everything mechanical, check out the left slat deploy and then stow as he makes his victory pirouette! At the 6:53 minute mark. The modeling in DCS is getting insanely accurate!
Huh??
Both of these planes are mods, it’s more of a testament to how well they’re made
@@erfguuipo8084 check the leading edge of the left wing
I noticed that, too!! Insane detailed modeling!
I was wondering how many/who would notice that detail I put that scene in the video because I also thought that was really cool detail.
All I'm taking away from this is that GS is hella talented in dogfighting
Next episode, Maverick vs GS
I have real respect for people that can take GS down. Dudes got skills
@Mihály Bálint Yes he is!
What makes GS a good pilot besides practicing discipline and commonly taught AA tactics just like real pilots are taught in flight school, is the fundamental understanding that every aircraft has different characteristics and are designed to fight Under certain conditions and because he understands these fundamentals, he is able to exploit these characteristics against other planes and pilots who don’t yet understand that.
He’s basically Viper in an A4
F5 vs A4 would be cool to see. Small and nimble, twin cannons and a couple of heatseekers on each
He's done it.
/watch?v=7xObz4M6z_g
A-4 Skyhawk Vs F-5 Tiger Dogfighter | Digital Combat Simulator | DCS |
The first fighter I worked on was the F-4D. We put SUU-23 gun pods on centerline but they were mainly for ground attack. There was no chaff or flare systems either. Only countermeasures was an ECM pod. We would take boxes of chaff and dump them in the speed brakes. Then the pilot could open them in flight for a chaff cloud. By the time the E model came out the F-15 and 16’s were starting to be designed. They incorporated elements based on the hard lessons from Vietnam.
I never get tired of watching you break down your opponent’s plane’s weaknesses and push them to fight against your strengths. Great stuff
All I'm gonna say is that round 3 was especially devious.
When you see GS out thinking and out maneuvering other, pilots spare a thought for those brave RAF pilots with 10 hours in a Spitfire or Hurricane who were sent up against the wily and experienced Luftwaffe pilots during the Battle of Britian. No wonder their life expectancy was so short. Imagine running up against Hauptmann Growlink Von Sidenvinder on your first mission😬
"Never in the field of human conflict was so much owed by so many to so few." - Winston Churchill
The gun hit at 13:50 impacted along the spine of the fuselage, which happens to be where ALL of the hydraulic control lines ran on the F-4. A hit there would almost instantly render all his controls inoperable, which is probably why he departed controlled flight.
Hey Growling Sidewinder! I watch all of your videos and would like to see F-16 vs I-16. The I-16 was a very good plane and fought well and hard. The F-16 might have trouble turn? I would love to see this fight! Thanks!
Yes!!!! You, my friend, are a genius.
How about f-16 vs m16?
@@margraveofgadsden8997 it the A4 vs M4
B17 vs j17
@@Miles26545 omg what have we started. 😂
Always love these classic Cold War matchups. The greater asymmetry between the older aircraft makes for much more interesting fights, IMO.
I finally got into DCS for real (instead of watching UA-cam videos) and it makes me appreciate your flying skills so much more. Dogfighting is so hard, particularly in VR. It was described as 3 dimensional chess on a rollercoaster in Paul Tremelling’s book, Harrier: How to be a fighter pilot and I totally see that. Watching your videos over the last couple years, Growling have definitely helped me start to get the hang of it!
The US Navy opted to not have gun pods on the F-4 as it is heavy can cause drag and slow the aircraft down, they would mostly compensate with maneuvers to acquire some of those rear-aspect Sidewinder shots…
Historical fact:
F-4 Phantom II was not built to be a dogfighter like the MiGs or the F-8 Crusaders, it was built to be an interceptor meant to engage and shoot down Soviet bombers, hence why the gun was not included in the initial design…
After interception you sometimes need to fire a warning shot... So, well...
@@sir0herrbatka Nah a poorly aimed AIM-9b should do the trick😉
The original design that led up to the phantom was single seat, had sparrow, sidewinders and 4 20 mm cannon... It was called the F3h G. A very interesting what if design.
Hard to tell if the F4 is on fire or just normal jet exhaust.
right? I thought GS hit him with gun but it was just the inefficient engine lol
That's cuz the F4s mad powah brah!!!
@@joobinmcgroobin5181 **James Pumphrey voice** "MO POWAH BABEH!!"
Idk if anyone watching a DCS video will get that reference, but oh well.
The last one was so exciting!
I heard that the navy never bothered with a gun in their f4s though. They just took better care of their missiles and apparently the guns didn't actually do that much, they did however give a better sense of security. But definitely better than the gunpod.
That overshoot at 6 minutes was beautiful! You make it look so easy sometimes haha
The video is not working
same here
Same here
Same here.
Not sure what’s going on guys it’s a UA-cam thing, everyone else is seeing it, are you guys maybe on mobile?
@@GrowlingSidewinder I'm on mobile. Having no problem here. Probably a UA-cam problem.
Absolutely loving all the F-4 content! Fav cold war jet by far!
Absolutely. I'd love to see a role reversal in this scenario. See GS deal with flying the F4 against a variety of opponents
@growling A suggestion, during the fight around 6:00 he overshot you and you got a kill, I would have loved to see that replay continue out to the kill even though we had not yet seen it first person.
It would be cool to see a reversal like that from the third person like how you dodged the missle, see him come around and get the kill. It is a tiny spoiler for the upcoming first person shot but I think it would have been cool in its own right as an occasional flavor to mix it up
perhaps to avoid the spoiler it would have been better to let it all play out in the cockpit and then show the full replay after the kill
@@birbeyboop yeah, I just think seeing the kill straight after a dodge all in third person would be cool to mix it up
5:55 " There's the overshoot right there. Fox 2 we're gonna shoot him in the ass here!" made me chuckle. Nicely flown in the scooter.
Long live the Skyhawk! My favorite combat jet. A-4 is an attack aircraft and yet many air forces and Top Gun used it as a fighter just spoke volumes of its capabilities.
F-86 vs A-4? Is this ever going to happen?
Might be an interesting fight... But I bet the F-86 still has the upper hand.
@@brianwright9514 It's possible, but the A-4 would be like a souped-up MiG-15, able to climb like a monkey and turn on a dime, even better than the MiG could. The Saber would be spending a lot of that fight in the vertical. He would have to stay fast, and maybe go for the two-circle.
Yo GS, thanks for the content. Great to see old metal from a by gone era where squadrons had character and not every plane on the flight line was an f16, f18, or f15. So much variety back then...a4, f8, f4, century jets, a6, etc. Miss the air shows of those good old days. Have a pleasant day. Cheers
These videos have now become the main source of my entertainment on UA-cam. Thank you GS!
Thanks for the shout out!
Lol late to my own party🙃😅
Man!
That F4 smokes like a chimney!
I knew the pilots hated that! See it for miles
Would love to see the RNZAF "KAHU" Skyhawk in DCS, an uprated A4K with F-16 avionics/radar etc.
Possibly the Singapore A4SU with the F404 engine as well. Brazil just had Embraer rebuild and refit a couple dozen for carrier work. That could be fun
The Argentinian Lockheed Martin A-4AR fightinghawk is basically a f16 with the manoeuvrability of the skyhawk
Great lesson in fighting to your strengths.
I used to see the f4 flying out of a base near where I lived as a kid, it was really cool.
Dayum! That F-4 closed the circle blazing fast in teh first fight!
I love hearing the boom from the missile explosion in the distance. Never gets old
Can we see more videos of you flying a 1 circle fighter against a 2 circle and showing how to do offset 2 circle tactics and everything.
It has always amazed me how the 50s' and 60s' tech was able to produce heat seekers. I mean even transistors were considered high tech back then not to mention certain models of consumer radios still had vacuum tubes in them.
There are heat seekers in '40s tech! Along with radar guided bombs, and various other things that have only recently come back around.
Little bit about the F-4's gun. Later Air Force versions were built with internal cannons. Navy versions never had one all the way until F-14 was introduced. There is a reason for this.
Early in Vietnam, both the Navy and Air Force suffered from the same problem in the air. That being a lower than preferred win/loss ratio (about 2:1 at the time). However, both branches went about solving the issue in completely different ways. The Air Force thought "Well, we took out the gun, so the gun is the problem. Missiles are unreliable" and left it at that. Little effort was made to push technological boundaries for missiles and radar, and little was done about pilot training. This brought in the E Phantom, armed with Aim-7E and Aim-9E(Later, the J/P). The Navy decided to take a deeper dive into the matter and discovered poor maintenance quality, less advanced technology than what was out on the market, and lack of pilot training. The Navy decided to focus efforts into improving pilot training (resulting in the Fighter Weapons School which we know as Top Gun), radar technology, and better missiles. They ended up eventually with the F-4J phantom armed with Aim-7E's and Aim-9D (or the G/H). The Air Force's win/loss ratio went from 2:1 to 3:1, while the Navy's went from 2:1 to 13:1. It got to a point where North Vietnamese pilots were told to "Avoid white jets" due to the lethality of Navy pilots.
TL:DR - The gun was never the issue. Technology and pilot training was (though I do not discount the utility of a cannon in select circumstances. It has its place, seeing as every fighter until F-35B/C after Vietnam had a cannon in it)
I'd like to see how the F-4 would do in a fight like the U.S. military envisioned for it. So probably BVR, by the sound of it. Maybe against the Fishbed?
Day 65 asking for F35C vs F/A-18 Super Hornet
Very Elegant and Inteligent A 4 Skywalk Dogfights against Fighter Airplane Phantom. Cool.
F4 with no gun. Intended as a missile ship. Had to mark 1 eyeball everything before engaging. Somewhere someone had to justify that decision retrospectively. It must have been one hell of a meeting.
This one was particularly fun - lots of cheeky moves!
Man, I want to get into DCS so badly, but I just can't right now because I don't have the money. My current desktop can't even run it, lol. Your channel really makes me want to get a good setup for it. I need a better paying job first though. I've been super into aviation since I was a kid. Keep up the great vids man, maybe one day I'll be able to pop up in your server. I do appreciate how you provide resources to get started. Maybe I'll be able to take advantage of that soon enough!
LOL first round and you got the missle to the face out of the way , great content Growling :)
I was in the Navy when they used A4s and went to a Blue Angels airshow at our base and they were still flying the A4 and if you ever seen that you really get an understanding of how nimble that aircraft is
Why do you not do BVR flights over sea? It will be exciting to see how you tackle long range missiles without terrian to hide into.
These kind of fights are much more entertaining than the 5th Gen fights. imo
2:15 moment
F4 Pilot: *"Any last Word"*
GS: *"He's gonna get a Fox.... !!"*
Fox 2: *"To Late !!"*
My uncle flew A4s in Vietnam, said it was the time of his life.
i love pulling that light pull one circle tactic to force whats usually a 2 circle fighter into a disadvantage 1 circle fight. give them confidence, make them believe they have a chance, then snatch it away in a instant and watch as they panic to escape your grasp. the only issues is if you screw up, theyre gonna get behind you and you arent gonna be able to do a lot to get them off, and it sadly isnt likely to work twice. but it doesnt need to work twice if its a one and done engagement.
I’ve been hunting for an f4 dogfight. Thank you for posting.
It's 11:18 pm now in iraq and I'm about to go to bed and a notification popped up.
The excitement when it started tracking 6:20 haha
It's insane that the Argentinian Air Force are still using Skyhawks as their only primary fighter. While their neighbors are using modern 4th gen fighters.
Freakin awesome! Thanks GS your the man!😁✌
Certainly not complaining but it'd been really cool to see you go a round or two in The F-4 Phantom😅
Still very grateful! Exceptionally Entertaining!!👍👍
Come on my dude- I want to see you flying the F-4
The F-4 was such a crazy plane. Insane speed which was totally not needed and no gun which would have been really nice to have.
It was a bomber too so need good engine
Yep, kinda like an old muscle car, fast and that's about it. Hellava good looking jet though. Not putting a gun of the F-4, just reminds me of the Regan speech " The worst thing you will ever hear, I'm from the government, and I'm here to help"
Not including a gun is, like most things, a mixed topic. Sure in this fight the F-4 could have used a gun. But this Phantom driver also made multiple mistakes like committing to a single circle fight, which gun or not is not the tactically intelligent way to use the Phantom. As Colonel Olds pointed out back in the 60s, charging into a radius fight with a gun armed Phantom is a great way to get killed . The better approach -gun or not- is to stay distant and use the Phantoms huge engines to take the fight vertical. This also means you won’t be in gun range to start with. Clearly, the US Navy pilots who racked up a 12:1 kill ratio in Linebacker did just fine without the cannon.
Early days of Top Gun right there.
the reaction at 2:19 was hilarious man, great video as always!
Great video GS! I cant wait to get the F-4E in DCS - that of course does have a gun. The F-4 is my second favourite aircraft of all time - the F-16 being my favourite and on third place strangely enough the WW2 bf109....I also have a thing for the century fighters - I know - I am weird. Looking foward to your next video Sir!
Now you know where the Top gun coat of arms is coming from...
The way you fly reminds me of Viper in Top Gun.
Love the Skyhawk. When I was a kid it was one of the first model airplanes I built.
F-8 vs F-4? Great vid...as always!
I wish they had the F-8 in DCS!
@@badhabits77 F-8 is in development for dcs ;)
Never gets old seeing GS getting Saprano'd (cut off mid-sentence)
Here's an idea: how about you have 2 of your friends dogfight while you commentate?
TBH, I had no idea the A4 couldn't out-rate the F4. Learn something new every day.
When I played Strike Fighters 2, I never use the Sidewinder unless I was absolutely sure I have a good chance of a hit.
This is absolutely impressive footage! That Round 2 overshoot was just cream
Out of curiosity, do you hate flying the F4? Ive always wondered that cause its the one aircraft ive seen you fight against but never fly. Atleast i havent seen a video of you in it searching through your past videos.
I also wouldn't mind seeing this. The F-4's yawningly wide turn circles and primarily vertical-plane playbook (climb, dive, extend, pitchback, etc.) might be a bit more of a technical challenge.
I'd like to see the F8 Crusader vs the F4! I believe that the F8 is extremely underrated and it was loved by it's pilots in Vietnam!
is the f8 even in dcs?
F-4 v A-4 ... May the Fours Be With You!
I really enjoy these fights between older jets. Great work!
This video just makes me want the Heatblur mod even more!!!
Well, fun fact was not the lack of the gun the issue but pilots training to use the Phantom effectively and improper missiles maintenance, after the U.S. Navy's Top Gun school in 1969 the kill/death ratio of Navy pilots improved drammatically and most kills were made by missiles in dogfights, not guns, in fact even when USAF F-4E was introduced in Vietnam in late 1960s with an internal 20mm gun it didn't really improve the kill/death ratio because the real problem was pilots training and missiles maintenance.
omg it was so funny, I was playing DCS flying a hornet 1vs1 vs. mig-29 and in the moment as you said Fox 2 he shot one and it hit me me as soon as you said splash.
When that Battlefield Theme kicks in!
I wonder, do they have the McDonnell F-101 Voodoo in DCS? I'd love to see how that old bird would perform.
Love the content, great flying.
The Vietnam era bird simply look amazing. Beautiful. And the dogfight again, little bit different and super!
Hopefully HB will let GS preview the F-4E before it releases like Razbam did with the F-15E ;)
Can you put out a video on the Phantom II or Rafale where you're flying it rather than flying against it? You have various videos featuring these two but I noticed that not once have I seen you fly them
Phantom vs rafale with the french pilot
Thank goodness we r getting a gun on the version we are getting.
I would still love to see a 1980s F-15C with AIM-7s vs MiG-29A with R-27Rs
6:21 Boom comes immediately when missile hit. Speed of sound must have reached speed of light
Btw, I always enjoy your vid. Thx for making'em
Maybe they were close enough that the delay was negligible 🤷♂️ I'm not good at estimating distance but that didn't look THAT far.
I'm form Vietnam and i really like your video bro 👍
I'm surprised the Mk-12's worked!! Called them click pop jam
Not being a pilot but having watched a lot of Blue Angel airshow performances I assumed an A-4 could out turn an F-4 but I guess turning and out rating are not the same thing. I would like to see how the A-4 Skyhawk competes against the F-45 Goshawk just to get an idea how a modern trainer stacks up against the scooter.
Why don't you fly the F-4 Phantom?
Fantastic A 4 Skywalk. Amazing. Nice.
Dogfights is not a Joke. Dogfights always is a Mortal Dangerous. Facts of Life. Real Life.
I remember seeing this match up before....phantom has so much more advantages but GS behind A4....anything can happen lol
And this fellow pilot's why you want to have guns in a dogfight, great lesson of the day.
there are about 6 of these sitting next to the road at an airstrip by where I live in Arizona. only 2 of them are "complete" the rest were cannibalized. They all have old paint schemes from the 70s
also one f4 phantom in sad shape there too. and bf108 pieces which is random.
It hurts so much to watch the f4 die it's one of my favorite we should get more videos with it maybe even with GS flying it that would be cool
The A7 Corsair II vs an A8 Crusader would be cool scrap imo
Knowledgeable commentary plus you sound like Eric Forman
I love the dirty exhaust from the Phantom. Not good tactically. If the F4 is in trouble it kicks on the afterburners and screams away.
I think it'd be funny to see harrier against f22 or the felon
Perfect example of exploiting the weakness of another weapon system.
I just watched the f22 su 30 video and the one circle is so wide in comparison. Its amazing to see how far tech has gone.
This looks like a real, live early Top Gun fight.
Always wanted to see this dogfight. Eleven year old me would be so happy