I'm debating whether to preorder and decide what to do with it later. I use R5 and overheating never limited me in any situation since it was a B cam when I'm shooting video for the most of time. I don't shoot lot of 8K footage, but more of regular 4K or 4K HQ footage. R5C is now oversampling all other resolution oversampled from 8K sensor such as 4K 24, 60, 120p are over sampled from 8K sensor, even FHD has better image compare to current R5. I think this could be done to R5, but I feel like Canon will keep this only for R5C to differentiate these two bodies...
In an Interview with Ollie (on ProAV UK) he mentioned that including clog2 in the R5c would not make sense, becuase the sensor has not that much dynamic range and it would just boost the noise floor. Clog2 was designed for their high dynamic range cameras like C500Mark II, C700FF... In order to benefit from clog2 it seems like you also need to have a decent sensor that is capable of using that data, but with a lower dynamic range sensor you would not benefit that much. (this is what they discussed, not my experience :D) he also mentioned that it is just one stop of difference from clog3, and that is just in the shadows, and on the R5c it would just be noise not any useful data.
I've been watching R5 since it came out, I might be wrong, but I just wanna ask. - I remembered someone was using R5's 8k raw footage in DaVinci Resolve (or canon's Cinema Raw Development I don't remember) and was able to use the raw footage with clog2 data to get more dynamic range than using clog3 with 4k HQ? Does that mean the sensor is able to capture a little more dynamic range than it's 4k HQ clog3 file? I don't remember it exactly, and please correct me if I'm wrong.
It's always better to have the option to and the raw to clog 2 conversion, even if not perfect, showed us that it's still possible to have a little bit more dynamic range out of this sensor, moreover if using some noise reduction software. In Clog3 instead the last extra stops "hidden" in the noise floor are just simply not recorded at all thus it's impossible even to find them.
If you buy a battery grip, because the batt time is very poor. You are very close to to the R3 and C70. So i bought the R3, as the hardware is better. Not a video camera, but the DR is the same as the C70 and the sharpness is there in a full frame body with excellent AF and battery time.
Disagree on your opinion on Clog 2 & 3. Clog 2 only gives you the maximum dynamic range if you pair it with a sensor that gives you that dynamic range. Clog 2 & 3 are identical from middle gray up. Clog 2 only gives you an extra stop of details in the shadows with the right sensor. If you put Clog 2 in a sensor that doesn't have that dynamic range then all your doing is bringing up noise and not details in the shadows. That is why they didnt have Clog 2 in the C200 because it doesn't have the dynamic range that would support it.
Raw was clog 2 on the c200. The 8 bit only outside of raw made it useless to have it as an option. it was lucky to have clog 3 because they claim anything outside of clog 1 is made for at least 10 bit.
Clog2 is not available, as it's just increasing the noise floor on the R5c. The R5c has 11.7 f-stops in ISO 100, while Clog2 is intended for 14 f-stops. That's at least how it was explained to me. Beyond that, there should be no downside in using Clog3.
Awesome video Tyler! Thanks for addressing the questions many of us had... Not gonna lie... it looks like an absolutely amazing camera, and a no-brainer upgrade for me, coming from the R.
I honestly don't think the dynamic range difference is that bad in practical terms. I want to use RF glass so I much prefer the smaller package FF R5C over the C70. Glad to see the autofocus was pretty damn good. Battery life is acceptable and easy to work around. Really hoping to pick up an R5C later this year.
@@JonPais It means most people worth their salt making money with this camera will be controlling their lighting like any sane person would and the 1.5 to 2 extra stops of DR in the C70 buys you very little. Hell, a simple 12 second soft grad ND placement and now you have 14+ stops of "DR" in your image. The camera performs closer to 11.5 stops in CLOG3 anyway and up to 12 with RAW. C70 is closer to 13 and the rest of the patch DR is buried in the shadows. Perhaps the Cinema RAW Lite update for the C70 will change things. So I'll trade the DR for a FF camera that can go from 8K to 2.9K in RAW, in a smaller package, with native RF glass, no adapters, no AF hamstrings with focal reducers. And I'll be happy until Canon releases a C70 style camera with FF, internal ND, and DGO.
@@JonPais Such hate. You're lying again. The R5c does not have 10 stops of dynamic range. Also, MFT vs Fullframe dynamic range is not the same. This has been proven with the GH5. Have you been chasing people around UA-cam talking smack about the R5 / R5c dynamic range? Shame on you. Do yourself a favor, go pick up a R5c and see how great a camera it is. If not, stay off channels that are talking about the R5c. Please, you are either trolling Canon and the R5c or you don't have a clue.
@@JonPais Hey, I've actually used and researched the cameras I comment on. Unlike you. Now, stop accusing people of lying and acting rude when you've left a trail littered with both. It's odd isn't it? that you post clips that you apply lots on and try and get legalist about sensors and processors when doing test like you do proves absolutely nothing. If you are a colorist or correcting / grading footage you know that white balance, luts are just a starting point. Do your homework before you jump the gun and start saying cameras do or don't have the dynamic range you think they have or should have. The R5c is an amazing camera both visually and on paper. It's a true cinema camera hybrid. The AF is also really good. The R5c video is what the R5 is with photography. I cam't believe how good this camera is actually.
@@JonPais Seems like you've had a Canon agenda for awhile. Maybe go do some actually work besides chasing Canon users. But I'm sure you'll find enough flaws in the KOMODO that will keep you occupied.
05:47 This is not the fair test, you put Sigma Art lens on C70 camera, and 15-35mm RF mount lens on R5C, you should put the same lens on different cameras. you will not get the real result or true info which camera is better. i know that R5C has 8K 60fps RAW, anyway test was not made fair way.
The one thing that bugs me about all of these comparisons (particularly with things like nuanced differences in image quality) and the inadequate comparisons being made. You can't take non-native sigma glass through a 0.71 adapter on the C70 and compare that to the EOS R5 or R5c with a native RF lens. The RF lenses are rated for 8K clarity, the shorter flange distance cuts down on things like coma smearing and chromatic aberration, and the focus on a native RF lens will be different. Hell, even from RF to RF there's a difference. My RF 35mm f/1.8 is no where near as reliable with autofocus as my RF 20-70 f/2.8 even if they're set to the same aperture and exposed exactly the same. The L-series RF lenses also do look noticeably sharper and cleaner than some of the more budget friendly RF glass. So comparing the image quality on a non-native mount/non-native lens through an adapter with the reliability and image quality of the most up-to-date glass you can get for that system does isn't useful. Otherwise, I do appreciate the information you given in this comparison. And this isn't the only video with those pitfalls either. Just something that has bugged me in nearly all of the reviews.
I feel like these guys that do these tests might not have enough lenses on hand to do such tests or they dont think it is important to test different behaviors across every lense. it would take a long time and make the video much longer. if they do sigma, might as well add in tamron, ef glass, af with all the adapters etc. Hopefully one day some youtubian that gets free shit will do a huge 3 hour test lol
@@RayValdezPhotography There's a huge treasure of gorgeous super35 cinema glass and FF lenses that can be adapted to the C70.Or just throw on an RF zoom. The three extra stops of dynamic range of the C70's DGO sensor easily destroys that of the R5 and its R5 C offspring.whose sensor is among the worst in terms of dynamic range in our times. Even nearly a decade ago, the 10.1 stops of DR of the Samsung APS-C NX1 was considered pretty lousy, even before HDR had become a household word. 8K 60 CRL is so notoriously difficult to edit that it has become the benchmark for shitty codecs when testing out new laptop computers. If, on the other hand, you're a hybrid shooter who only does video occasionally, the R5 C or R5 might be the better choice.
To me the fight is between a c70 and an R3 as a B-can. 6k Raw is actually useful (8k raw is nuts) rolling shutter and dynamic range *should* be better. But c70 compressed? SD? Raw and say a little Fuji might just be better.
The whole purpose of log files was a workaround for non raw files to have the flatest image. So i dont undertand why its important if shooting in RAW. We dont shoot in log or worry about it when shooting stills. We adjust the image as needed using the RAW file.
I’d like to know why the video raw workflow is still more complicated than stills, but at the moment you do need to interpret/debayer the footage as log if you want to get all that pretty luma and chroma data out of the image. If you interpret is directly to rec709, you’ve gained no quality by shooting raw. It’s dumb but that’s how it is for now
I feel the DGO sensor of the C70 needed a mention in this, it's really quite something when compared - I'm sure you cover it in another video, but was surprised it wasn't more of a feature in this one :P
I wasn't going to upgrade my R5 to an R5C until I was on a 4 hr shoot last week and my R5 almost overheated (I was even using a Ninja V and only recording externally and using the LCD minimally). That flashing red overheating symbol was a direct threat to my creativity when it happened ... and I'm hired for my creativity above all else. So it's a no brainer for me ... I'll be filming in much more extreme scenarios, so the R5C is a necessity for my nature of work (I need the best hybrid I can get or I'd be filming with something else).
@@supertal3 the R5C is weather sealed. To what degree (heavy rain or dust) we will find out! My Ninja V certainly isn’t weather sealed so for me I’m in the same situation regardless. I’ve filmed in the rain once in 10 years so not an issue for me.
Hot take. Canon will announce CLOG4 with this years Cinema EOS releases and then do firmware update to other new C series cameras for it. If the rumors are true about a new 4k 20stop DGO sensor coming to one of those cameras they are gunna need a new profile that can contain it...
Thanks Tyler! When you’re in the video operating system, can you take stills without switching to the photo o.s? I’m often taking both video and stills at the same time for my clients, would love to carry one camera and know that I can easily match color between media
I am wedding photographer and videographer and I already own the R5 but I'm so torn between adding another camera such as the R5c that will do both photo and video or the C70 for its dynamic range and build in ND's/full size HDMI port
do you find that adding sharpness in post to your c70 image solves it's softness problem? it's the main reason I don't get the c70. It looks so soft that it actually looks out of focus quite often. if it was a little sharper and had eye tracking it would be perfect... the r5c images just dont have the same appeal as the c70 in terms of the gentle roll offs. it looks much more contrasty
I got my C70 the same day the R5C was announced, so I’m glad to hear your conclusions in this video. I went ahead and ordered it based in part on your recommendations, and I’m glad I did. The C70 is a great camera, and I have no regrets. Another channel recommended your luts, and I agree that it looks a lot better than the Canon lut.
The only thing I've wanted out of my C70 after a year of ownership that the R5 had is RAW, but now we're getting that in March for the C70! So you bought at the perfect time basically.
You didn’t mention the difference in focus capabilities between photo and video for the R5C. There is no dual pixel auto focus II in video mode, but is is in photo mode. Weird.
Great, I love when they talk more about practical and personal opinions, more than numbers, technical capabilities. I totally agree, the color and dynamic range is much more important than that extra sharpness and the addition of practical things like battery life, ND, double audio input, if one only thinks about video, the C70 is still the camera to go. Thanks for the comparison!
What’s missing for me on the c70 is an evf now since internal light raw is coming soon … there is a magnetic solution for quick installing variable NDs on the lens + tascam for audio on top I think R5c makes more sense to me
CLOG 3 was developed for a reason. CLOG 2 is harder to grade and makes some cameras look worse without denoising. Shooting in RAW will get the most dynamic range. You can apply CLOG 2 if you want to compare the two. You can't automatically assume you will get more dynamic range. 14 stops is a lot.
It only seems like there’s a challenge grading clog2 if it’s being done by hand. Drop a good lut on there, use Resolve’s CST or Cinematch and it’s a piece of cake. And then you still have more tonal and color flexibility
There is a Canon drop-in filter for the RF mount which has a great ND for EF lenses. As you are also using the 0.71 adapter for the C70 anyway (and that´s for EF lenses) what is stopping you from just getting the drop-in filter? Then you would have an ND for the R5c. I´ve been using that ND adapter ever since I got my regular R5 and it´s been GREAT!
ProRes RAW in Final Cut ONLY has the option of CLOG2 transform. So I assume CLOG2 is the default log for Canon ProRes RAW. Also side note, I've been using the R5 for about 7-8 months now. While I think it's ok, it gets the job done, I am definitely not in love with it at all. I want to try the R5C before ultimately ditching it. Why is it so hard to find a perfect camera system? lol
The power thing: so can you still manually focus with RF glass in the power hungry modes? As they are fly-by-wire I would have assumed they need power to "manually" focus.
Hi, what would be nice is an automatic variable ND non polarising add on adapter for EF lenses. Imagine that! Not going to happen I suspect but it is a shame as this has a built in eye-piece whilst the C70 does not. Which to choose? Problems, problems, alway problems - to quote Marvin the Martian.
Thanks for the review! Very torn between the R5C and C70. I do everything from corporate talking heads to fashion/music editorial videos. Though my heart is definitely with the more cinematic look, I'm concerned that the lack of full frame or 8K will make the C70 less optimal for commercial use (which includes frequent requests for vertical/in-feed/mutli-aspect ratio cuts) and not as "future-proof". What do you think I should get? Basically - how much less of a vibe is the R5C than the C70? haha.
You can get the colors to match, like 98%. If sharpness is a priority you’ll definitely get more out of the R5C, even in 4K. Depends if you can live without built in ND, XLR and extremely long battery life. I can’t.
@@stalman You have better AF on the R5c, you can also get a battery bank that solves the battery issue. The R5c destroys the R5 for video and I assume also cuts into C70 sales because the R5c is full frame 4K and 8K. I think the added sharpness looks like a combination full frame and downsampled. I would caution about getting the C70 because of the ND filters. Clog2 on the C70 is one advantage the C70 has over the R5c.
Great video Tyler, thanks for the info. Very helpful. On the autofocus, Canon changed a few things to be more C70-like...but can you tap the screen to choose focus points like the R5 (e.g. can you do rack focus using the touch screen)?
Awesome video, how do you think this stacks up to the fx3 or the s1h? I’m deciding whether to go with canon, Panny or Sony ecosystem and it’s really tough to decide
Awesome video! I do photos and video for industrial (generally in low lights and in 1080p). Till now I used 5dIV and I wanna do a jump in video area. It's better for me: - C70 when they ask me video (using my 5DIV for photos and second camera) or R5C (using my 5DIV as second camera) - R6 (using my 5DIV as second camera) saving lot of money. This is a good option for you?
I would rather have the C70 than anything else for video, but the R6 will definitely get the job done and create a beautiful image. The biggest things you’re missing are unlimited record time, internal NDs, XLR inputs and long battery life.
@@stalman thanks for reply! Maybe do you mean in R5 instead of R6? About R6 i am afraid about reaction of Ipb files in color correction! Had you bad experience on it?
That’s great to call attention to and probably makes my side by side much less useful. Based on my testing when I first got the C70 I couldn’t see a significant difference and I’ve heard the same from other C70 users not using the adapter
@@stalman no worries. Loved the video: after your review, were you like “this is better than I expected” or more like “more cool stuff but I don’t like the removal of things” I have an R5 and not sure if I would benefit from the upgrade
I notice you had a sigma lens on the c70 at one stage. I hope you were using the RF lens for both on the sharpness tests... I'm sure you would be. I have no reason to doubt you!!
Tyler I love your videos, I was actually about to buy an R5, I wasn't super worried about long videos since I have a c100 mkii that covers my client work (no one has yet asked to deliver a 4k end product) but at the same time I know the c100 is nearing the end of it's productive life, I do think that as 5g becomes more common, social media might start to use 4k videos at last, 1080p will take the 720p place. At the same time I also do a lot pf product photography and sports photography, and I'm a bit sad, but totally understand, that there's no IBIS. On the video side I do extreme sports videos, product videos, dog agility videos and sometimes bigger productions for marketing videos. Would you recommend the R5c over the original r5 for these applications? Maybe still get the original r5 for the IBIS and shoot slow mo but do long interviews or talking heads with the c100? Would definitely appreciate anyone's input too!
If this is what you plan to replace the C100 with, yes I would choose the R5C. It will quickly become your primary camera and if you mainly shoot video, your primary should have unlimited record times
@@stalman Thanks for the recommendation, the way I see it if I ever reaaaally need IBIS I'm sure the R5C will have paid for itself by then and I can snag an R5 or maybe even an R1 for photography focused projects.
The autofoucs is not that bad as I thought thank you for that clarification. When I get mine I do have a battery grip and will test out those times and see how long it will record vs the regular battery
It is, many people are very disappointed with the AF in the C70. If you are behind the camera, no biggie, if you in front of the camera. You will not be happy.
@@stalman Thanks for verification, with new Cinema menu makes me wonder if they still have Standard or Neutral profile from R5. I love R5 color straight out from camera
Shame the DR test was botched. That's the one area where the C70 should in theory come ahead. I guess when the CRL update comes next month C70 IQ will take a giant leap and perhaps compare more favourably to R5/R5C. As of right now, I'm on the fence, purely from an IQ standpoint. Really waiting on a test that clearly shows the C70's DGO sensor advantage over R5/R5C.
On a canon website, said yes. But when i enquired at my local shop, the Canon agent said no. So it is not clarified. You need this or you will be carrying a lot of batteries. With the extra cost of the grip and battery. You start to get close to the R3 and C70. Both better cameras in my mind with far better battery, even with the grip.
Nice one Tyler. I've used the R5 now for about 18 months and though not perfect, it's a great cam. If I had the money, I'd get a v-raptor but as of now, maybe this cam would be good. It'll work nicely with my existing R5. I have a quick question: would it be possible down the line for Canon to add C log 3 through an update? and likely?
@@stalman when one of the Canon rep's was asked about CLog2 in one of the Q&A's -- they basically said that the dynamic range of the R5 wouldn't benefit from CLog2 as compared to the C70 or other cinema camera's that have more dynamic range. If that's true, it makes sense ... then another Canon Rep said "We're using CLog3 instead of also offering CLog2 because CLog3 is easier to grade" LOL ... the first answer sounds more honest to me!
Great video but the Panasonic LUMIX S5II is half the price and does every bit as much. I’m a Canon owner but I’m saving up for the S5II. I really wanted a C70 or C200 but those choices make no sense with Panasonic putting out hybrids at $2,200.00.
to me, whenever I see overly sharp footage, I immediately think "THAT'S DIGITAL"....maybe I am just old school but the C70 with the sharp but smooth image with the rolloff looks more "filmic" in almost every video I see - it looks more like 35mm Film cameras studios used to always use for every movie
Lol this Is going to be my first cam ever but due to biz needs im looking for something in this quality everything I've seen so far its an amazing camera, Def pumped to mess around with it when it drops
If you want to consider this a photo camera, then consider it the only photo camera on the market without ibis. And 8 seconds to go form photo to video. Wtf? This is isn’t even a dumb down version of the c70. A cinema camera has waveforms, audio inputs, etc. This fails as a great photo camera and fails as a great cinema camera. Double fail.
Major flaw on the R5C: it doesn't do auto iris with EF-lenses. Come on Canon!! My 5d MkIV can do it, the hardware can do it, but the software won't let us?!
This was one of the most helpful videos I've seen regarding the R5c; I've heard chirping about how the autofocus is downgraded a bit from the R5 in video mode, did you notice any other significant drop offs outside of talking head shooting?
Great overview Tyler. I am glad we had the chance to check out the R5 C together!
Great info here! Thanks for sharing brother 🤘🏽🤘🏽
I'm debating whether to preorder and decide what to do with it later.
I use R5 and overheating never limited me in any situation since it was a B cam when I'm shooting video for the most of time.
I don't shoot lot of 8K footage, but more of regular 4K or 4K HQ footage. R5C is now oversampling all other resolution oversampled from 8K sensor such as 4K 24, 60, 120p are over sampled from 8K sensor, even FHD has better image compare to current R5.
I think this could be done to R5, but I feel like Canon will keep this only for R5C to differentiate these two bodies...
The R5c is an incredible camera. You will love it.
In an Interview with Ollie (on ProAV UK) he mentioned that including clog2 in the R5c would not make sense, becuase the sensor has not that much dynamic range and it would just boost the noise floor. Clog2 was designed for their high dynamic range cameras like C500Mark II, C700FF...
In order to benefit from clog2 it seems like you also need to have a decent sensor that is capable of using that data, but with a lower dynamic range sensor you would not benefit that much. (this is what they discussed, not my experience :D) he also mentioned that it is just one stop of difference from clog3, and that is just in the shadows, and on the R5c it would just be noise not any useful data.
I've been watching R5 since it came out, I might be wrong, but I just wanna ask. - I remembered someone was using R5's 8k raw footage in DaVinci Resolve (or canon's Cinema Raw Development I don't remember) and was able to use the raw footage with clog2 data to get more dynamic range than using clog3 with 4k HQ? Does that mean the sensor is able to capture a little more dynamic range than it's 4k HQ clog3 file? I don't remember it exactly, and please correct me if I'm wrong.
@@SkioDing Nope. The option to use clog2 is in Davinci, but it does add any extra dynamic ranger. Better to stay with clog2 with R5.
It's always better to have the option to and the raw to clog 2 conversion, even if not perfect, showed us that it's still possible to have a little bit more dynamic range out of this sensor, moreover if using some noise reduction software. In Clog3 instead the last extra stops "hidden" in the noise floor are just simply not recorded at all thus it's impossible even to find them.
Always very professional, informative and chill videos. Thanks so much for sharing your insights Tyler!
If you buy a battery grip, because the batt time is very poor. You are very close to to the R3 and C70.
So i bought the R3, as the hardware is better.
Not a video camera, but the DR is the same as the C70 and the sharpness is there in a full frame body with excellent AF and battery time.
Disagree on your opinion on Clog 2 & 3. Clog 2 only gives you the maximum dynamic range if you pair it with a sensor that gives you that dynamic range. Clog 2 & 3 are identical from middle gray up. Clog 2 only gives you an extra stop of details in the shadows with the right sensor. If you put Clog 2 in a sensor that doesn't have that dynamic range then all your doing is bringing up noise and not details in the shadows. That is why they didnt have Clog 2 in the C200 because it doesn't have the dynamic range that would support it.
You just watched the Q&A with Ollie at ProAV? Your comment is exactly as Ollie puts it at: ua-cam.com/video/GpMYwMm5cnU/v-deo.html
Raw was clog 2 on the c200. The 8 bit only outside of raw made it useless to have it as an option. it was lucky to have clog 3 because they claim anything outside of clog 1 is made for at least 10 bit.
Clog2 is not available, as it's just increasing the noise floor on the R5c. The R5c has 11.7 f-stops in ISO 100, while Clog2 is intended for 14 f-stops. That's at least how it was explained to me. Beyond that, there should be no downside in using Clog3.
clog3 doesnt work its best under iso 800. so iso 100???
Awesome video Tyler! Thanks for addressing the questions many of us had... Not gonna lie... it looks like an absolutely amazing camera, and a no-brainer upgrade for me, coming from the R.
I’m going to upgrade from my R - R5C or R5ii. I’m more video than photos.
I honestly don't think the dynamic range difference is that bad in practical terms. I want to use RF glass so I much prefer the smaller package FF R5C over the C70. Glad to see the autofocus was pretty damn good. Battery life is acceptable and easy to work around. Really hoping to pick up an R5C later this year.
@@JonPais It means most people worth their salt making money with this camera will be controlling their lighting like any sane person would and the 1.5 to 2 extra stops of DR in the C70 buys you very little. Hell, a simple 12 second soft grad ND placement and now you have 14+ stops of "DR" in your image. The camera performs closer to 11.5 stops in CLOG3 anyway and up to 12 with RAW. C70 is closer to 13 and the rest of the patch DR is buried in the shadows. Perhaps the Cinema RAW Lite update for the C70 will change things.
So I'll trade the DR for a FF camera that can go from 8K to 2.9K in RAW, in a smaller package, with native RF glass, no adapters, no AF hamstrings with focal reducers. And I'll be happy until Canon releases a C70 style camera with FF, internal ND, and DGO.
@@JonPais Such hate. You're lying again. The R5c does not have 10 stops of dynamic range. Also, MFT vs Fullframe dynamic range is not the same. This has been proven with the GH5. Have you been chasing people around UA-cam talking smack about the R5 / R5c dynamic range? Shame on you. Do yourself a favor, go pick up a R5c and see how great a camera it is. If not, stay off channels that are talking about the R5c. Please, you are either trolling Canon and the R5c or you don't have a clue.
@@JonPais Hey, I've actually used and researched the cameras I comment on. Unlike you. Now, stop accusing people of lying and acting rude when you've left a trail littered with both. It's odd isn't it? that you post clips that you apply lots on and try and get legalist about sensors and processors when doing test like you do proves absolutely nothing. If you are a colorist or correcting / grading footage you know that white balance, luts are just a starting point. Do your homework before you jump the gun and start saying cameras do or don't have the dynamic range you think they have or should have. The R5c is an amazing camera both visually and on paper. It's a true cinema camera hybrid. The AF is also really good. The R5c video is what the R5 is with photography. I cam't believe how good this camera is actually.
@@JonPais Seems like you've had a Canon agenda for awhile. Maybe go do some actually work besides chasing Canon users. But I'm sure you'll find enough flaws in the KOMODO that will keep you occupied.
05:47 This is not the fair test, you put Sigma Art lens on C70 camera, and 15-35mm RF mount lens on R5C, you should put the same lens on different cameras. you will not get the real result or true info which camera is better. i know that R5C has 8K 60fps RAW, anyway test was not made fair way.
The sharpness tests were with the exact same lens moved from one body to the other.
The one thing that bugs me about all of these comparisons (particularly with things like nuanced differences in image quality) and the inadequate comparisons being made. You can't take non-native sigma glass through a 0.71 adapter on the C70 and compare that to the EOS R5 or R5c with a native RF lens. The RF lenses are rated for 8K clarity, the shorter flange distance cuts down on things like coma smearing and chromatic aberration, and the focus on a native RF lens will be different. Hell, even from RF to RF there's a difference. My RF 35mm f/1.8 is no where near as reliable with autofocus as my RF 20-70 f/2.8 even if they're set to the same aperture and exposed exactly the same. The L-series RF lenses also do look noticeably sharper and cleaner than some of the more budget friendly RF glass. So comparing the image quality on a non-native mount/non-native lens through an adapter with the reliability and image quality of the most up-to-date glass you can get for that system does isn't useful. Otherwise, I do appreciate the information you given in this comparison. And this isn't the only video with those pitfalls either. Just something that has bugged me in nearly all of the reviews.
So what do you suggest they do differently?
I feel like these guys that do these tests might not have enough lenses on hand to do such tests or they dont think it is important to test different behaviors across every lense. it would take a long time and make the video much longer. if they do sigma, might as well add in tamron, ef glass, af with all the adapters etc. Hopefully one day some youtubian that gets free shit will do a huge 3 hour test lol
@@RayValdezPhotography There's a huge treasure of gorgeous super35 cinema glass and FF lenses that can be adapted to the C70.Or just throw on an RF zoom. The three extra stops of dynamic range of the C70's DGO sensor easily destroys that of the R5 and its R5 C offspring.whose sensor is among the worst in terms of dynamic range in our times. Even nearly a decade ago, the 10.1 stops of DR of the Samsung APS-C NX1 was considered pretty lousy, even before HDR had become a household word. 8K 60 CRL is so notoriously difficult to edit that it has become the benchmark for shitty codecs when testing out new laptop computers. If, on the other hand, you're a hybrid shooter who only does video occasionally, the R5 C or R5 might be the better choice.
@@JonPais what is the R3 DR. Canon literally claims 13.3 stops in clog 3 but i see no tests.
@@RayValdezPhotography The R3 is more interesting than either the R5 C or the R5. Hopefully, we’ll see some tests soon!
To me the fight is between a c70 and an R3 as a B-can. 6k Raw is actually useful (8k raw is nuts) rolling shutter and dynamic range *should* be better. But c70 compressed? SD? Raw and say a little Fuji might just be better.
The whole purpose of log files was a workaround for non raw files to have the flatest image. So i dont undertand why its important if shooting in RAW. We dont shoot in log or worry about it when shooting stills. We adjust the image as needed using the RAW file.
I’d like to know why the video raw workflow is still more complicated than stills, but at the moment you do need to interpret/debayer the footage as log if you want to get all that pretty luma and chroma data out of the image. If you interpret is directly to rec709, you’ve gained no quality by shooting raw.
It’s dumb but that’s how it is for now
I feel the DGO sensor of the C70 needed a mention in this, it's really quite something when compared - I'm sure you cover it in another video, but was surprised it wasn't more of a feature in this one :P
Yes true, I’m really prefer the C70 sensor in every way and I’m sure DGO has something to do with it
Let’s go Tyler!! Not even jealous…..just stoked for you to have your hands on one.
I wasn't going to upgrade my R5 to an R5C until I was on a 4 hr shoot last week and my R5 almost overheated (I was even using a Ninja V and only recording externally and using the LCD minimally). That flashing red overheating symbol was a direct threat to my creativity when it happened ... and I'm hired for my creativity above all else. So it's a no brainer for me ... I'll be filming in much more extreme scenarios, so the R5C is a necessity for my nature of work (I need the best hybrid I can get or I'd be filming with something else).
Wouldn't the lack of weather sealing be an issue? Or is it still weather sealed?
@@supertal3 the R5C is weather sealed. To what degree (heavy rain or dust) we will find out! My Ninja V certainly isn’t weather sealed so for me I’m in the same situation regardless. I’ve filmed in the rain once in 10 years so not an issue for me.
@@Malick333 Oh I didn't know that, that's awesome!
Hot take. Canon will announce CLOG4 with this years Cinema EOS releases and then do firmware update to other new C series cameras for it. If the rumors are true about a new 4k 20stop DGO sensor coming to one of those cameras they are gunna need a new profile that can contain it...
Thanks Tyler! When you’re in the video operating system, can you take stills without switching to the photo o.s?
I’m often taking both video and stills at the same time for my clients, would love to carry one camera and know that I can easily match color between media
That 8k downsampled to 4k is stunning.
anyway to help with the no ibis? i want to buy it but the shaking is insane in all these videos.
Dude! Stoked for this!
If it takes that long to switch between photo and video, I don’t find this to be super practical
Nooo way! Congrats Tyler! Thank you for posting this!
How to shoot a short film with one smartphone and one gimbal???…it will be a great help sir… thank you
I am wedding photographer and videographer and I already own the R5 but I'm so torn between adding another camera such as the R5c that will do both photo and video or the C70 for its dynamic range and build in ND's/full size HDMI port
Autofocus was solid
Looks like my only issue is the time it takes to switch between modes. Isn’t going to work for fast pace hybrid work.
Yep and for wildlife and sports milliseconds count. Not 8 seconds
do you find that adding sharpness in post to your c70 image solves it's softness problem? it's the main reason I don't get the c70. It looks so soft that it actually looks out of focus quite often. if it was a little sharper and had eye tracking it would be perfect... the r5c images just dont have the same appeal as the c70 in terms of the gentle roll offs. it looks much more contrasty
I got my C70 the same day the R5C was announced, so I’m glad to hear your conclusions in this video. I went ahead and ordered it based in part on your recommendations, and I’m glad I did. The C70 is a great camera, and I have no regrets. Another channel recommended your luts, and I agree that it looks a lot better than the Canon lut.
The only thing I've wanted out of my C70 after a year of ownership that the R5 had is RAW, but now we're getting that in March for the C70! So you bought at the perfect time basically.
Do you have any videos on the R3 for professional video work? I’m waiting for mine to come to use in filming weddings.
You didn’t mention the difference in focus capabilities between photo and video for the R5C. There is no dual pixel auto focus II in video mode, but is is in photo mode. Weird.
Great, I love when they talk more about practical and personal opinions, more than numbers, technical capabilities. I totally agree, the color and dynamic range is much more important than that extra sharpness and the addition of practical things like battery life, ND, double audio input, if one only thinks about video, the C70 is still the camera to go. Thanks for the comparison!
Are you the real chilean Alex Urteras from Francia, Chile??!!
@@bacilazo jajajaja yeah, but we don't have fondue
@@AlexUtreras but you have lentejas...
@@bacilazo only lentejas for doing the equipment report 😁
Did you know the PQ mode is just CLOG2 with a PQ tone curve applied? So you do actually have a variant of Clog2 in that camera.
Hmm, I’ll have to try it to see exactly what you mean
that photo/video switch delay would drive me nuts, particularly on coverage based run and gun projects where a camera like this shines.
I think the R3 is then a better option :D
@@TomislavMoze a7iv for me
Yep for wildlife it would be a disaster to wait
I am even surprised that in the studio tests you used sigma lens not RF on the R5C and it was that sharp!!
The Sigma's are crazy sharp, I love them!
What’s missing for me on the c70 is an evf now since internal light raw is coming soon … there is a magnetic solution for quick installing variable NDs on the lens + tascam for audio on top I think R5c makes more sense to me
CLOG 3 was developed for a reason.
CLOG 2 is harder to grade and makes some cameras look worse without denoising.
Shooting in RAW will get the most dynamic range.
You can apply CLOG 2 if you want to compare the two.
You can't automatically assume you will get more dynamic range.
14 stops is a lot.
It only seems like there’s a challenge grading clog2 if it’s being done by hand. Drop a good lut on there, use Resolve’s CST or Cinematch and it’s a piece of cake. And then you still have more tonal and color flexibility
@@stalman By the way, Canon has tools to apply CLOG 2 to RAW files. DaVinci resolve is one less step but it is not required.
Only the R5 C does not have 14 stops of dynamic range.
Liked and subscribed Tyler. Had a question. What camera are you using to make this video and or edit program once you are done? Thanks
It’s shot on a mic of R5 and C70
There is a Canon drop-in filter for the RF mount which has a great ND for EF lenses. As you are also using the 0.71 adapter for the C70 anyway (and that´s for EF lenses) what is stopping you from just getting the drop-in filter? Then you would have an ND for the R5c. I´ve been using that ND adapter ever since I got my regular R5 and it´s been GREAT!
ProRes RAW in Final Cut ONLY has the option of CLOG2 transform. So I assume CLOG2 is the default log for Canon ProRes RAW.
Also side note, I've been using the R5 for about 7-8 months now. While I think it's ok, it gets the job done, I am definitely not in love with it at all. I want to try the R5C before ultimately ditching it. Why is it so hard to find a perfect camera system? lol
The power thing: so can you still manually focus with RF glass in the power hungry modes? As they are fly-by-wire I would have assumed they need power to "manually" focus.
With Canons RF lenses you would have to pre-focus
Hi, what would be nice is an automatic variable ND non polarising add on adapter for EF lenses. Imagine that! Not going to happen I suspect but it is a shame as this has a built in eye-piece whilst the C70 does not. Which to choose? Problems, problems, alway problems - to quote Marvin the Martian.
Tyler, I am going to use it as a b cam with the c70. When shooting with bt709 wide dr rather than clog
Are there any settings to match? please
Best video ive seen on the R5C, great job
Clog3 was developed as replacement for Clog2 which was super noisy on C300 Mark II. Not sure if it's still relevant with the newer cameras.
No, Clog3 was never a replacement for anything.
so if I understood correctly, you cant auto-focus when shooting 8k raw?
Great review, as always!
The video we were waiting for!
Thanks for the review! Very torn between the R5C and C70. I do everything from corporate talking heads to fashion/music editorial videos. Though my heart is definitely with the more cinematic look, I'm concerned that the lack of full frame or 8K will make the C70 less optimal for commercial use (which includes frequent requests for vertical/in-feed/mutli-aspect ratio cuts) and not as "future-proof". What do you think I should get? Basically - how much less of a vibe is the R5C than the C70? haha.
You can get the colors to match, like 98%. If sharpness is a priority you’ll definitely get more out of the R5C, even in 4K.
Depends if you can live without built in ND, XLR and extremely long battery life. I can’t.
@@stalman that makes sense - thanks!
@@stalman You have better AF on the R5c, you can also get a battery bank that solves the battery issue. The R5c destroys the R5 for video and I assume also cuts into C70 sales because the R5c is full frame 4K and 8K. I think the added sharpness looks like a combination full frame and downsampled. I would caution about getting the C70 because of the ND filters. Clog2 on the C70 is one advantage the C70 has over the R5c.
Great video Tyler, thanks for the info. Very helpful. On the autofocus, Canon changed a few things to be more C70-like...but can you tap the screen to choose focus points like the R5 (e.g. can you do rack focus using the touch screen)?
Yes it’s sort of a crossover autofocus but does take the best parts of the R5
Tyler I am looking forward to you reviewing the Canon R7
Awesome video, how do you think this stacks up to the fx3 or the s1h?
I’m deciding whether to go with canon, Panny or Sony ecosystem and it’s really tough to decide
Awesome video! I do photos and video for industrial (generally in low lights and in 1080p). Till now I used 5dIV and I wanna do a jump in video area. It's better for me:
- C70 when they ask me video (using my 5DIV for photos and second camera) or R5C (using my 5DIV as second camera)
- R6 (using my 5DIV as second camera) saving lot of money. This is a good option for you?
I would rather have the C70 than anything else for video, but the R6 will definitely get the job done and create a beautiful image. The biggest things you’re missing are unlimited record time, internal NDs, XLR inputs and long battery life.
@@stalman thanks for reply! Maybe do you mean in R5 instead of R6? About R6 i am afraid about reaction of Ipb files in color correction! Had you bad experience on it?
Does your softens from the c70 come from the focal reducer? I know adding some glass might decrease the sharpness.
That’s great to call attention to and probably makes my side by side much less useful. Based on my testing when I first got the C70 I couldn’t see a significant difference and I’ve heard the same from other C70 users not using the adapter
Tyler does the battery grip fit the "Extra power draw needs" of the higher frame rate raw modes?
I still don’t have official information about it so I didn’t want to comment
@@stalman no worries. Loved the video: after your review, were you like “this is better than I expected” or more like “more cool stuff but I don’t like the removal of things” I have an R5 and not sure if I would benefit from the upgrade
Upload more often, great contents! New lightroom video tutorial for editing photos would be great (masking etc) :)
I notice you had a sigma lens on the c70 at one stage. I hope you were using the RF lens for both on the sharpness tests... I'm sure you would be. I have no reason to doubt you!!
So jealous! Gotta wait till April to get my hands on this...
Also was wondering if the R5 C have Custom modes in video like the R5? ex.(C1,C2,C3)?
Careful not to cut yourself on such sharp footage 😬
What you think about sports videography on this camera
Super helpful video. Definitely curious to get my hands on this camera and give it a go
Tyler I love your videos, I was actually about to buy an R5, I wasn't super worried about long videos since I have a c100 mkii that covers my client work (no one has yet asked to deliver a 4k end product) but at the same time I know the c100 is nearing the end of it's productive life, I do think that as 5g becomes more common, social media might start to use 4k videos at last, 1080p will take the 720p place. At the same time I also do a lot pf product photography and sports photography, and I'm a bit sad, but totally understand, that there's no IBIS. On the video side I do extreme sports videos, product videos, dog agility videos and sometimes bigger productions for marketing videos. Would you recommend the R5c over the original r5 for these applications? Maybe still get the original r5 for the IBIS and shoot slow mo but do long interviews or talking heads with the c100? Would definitely appreciate anyone's input too!
If this is what you plan to replace the C100 with, yes I would choose the R5C. It will quickly become your primary camera and if you mainly shoot video, your primary should have unlimited record times
@@stalman Thanks for the recommendation, the way I see it if I ever reaaaally need IBIS I'm sure the R5C will have paid for itself by then and I can snag an R5 or maybe even an R1 for photography focused projects.
Where do you find ur music? Edit: nvm it’s epidemic sound.
The autofoucs is not that bad as I thought thank you for that clarification. When I get mine I do have a battery grip and will test out those times and see how long it will record vs the regular battery
It is, many people are very disappointed with the AF in the C70. If you are behind the camera, no biggie, if you in front of the camera. You will not be happy.
@@waynosfotos Who is talking about the AF of C70?
Alex, which battery grip you have?
Great works Tyler, may i ask if which color profiles ( in video mode) of R5c will be matched perfectly with R5?
From what I could tell all the profiles are a 1:1 match, other than the usual variability from one body to another.
@@stalman Thanks for verification, with new Cinema menu makes me wonder if they still have Standard or Neutral profile from R5. I love R5 color straight out from camera
What are your thoughts on the R3 ? Can you do a review one day :)
Does the Smallrig R5 camera cage fit on the R5C, Thanks in advance
I always enjoy your reviews. Thank you!!
Did you test the battery life in photo mode? Is it the same as with the R5?
I didn’t time it but in a half day of shooting, it seemed the same as the R5. So good enough, but not great
Thanks Tyler, I was looking forward to your review after the initial hype. The R5c looks awesome.
What is clog? I mean what is he talking about dynamic range? Am I missing something?
As the RAW LT / ST on the C70 is sharper than the XF-AVC, I wonder how it compares? Cool video Tyler
I’m not seeing a big difference in sharpness in my raw tests. R5C will still be sharper
@@stalman Thanks for checking!
Shame the DR test was botched. That's the one area where the C70 should in theory come ahead. I guess when the CRL update comes next month C70 IQ will take a giant leap and perhaps compare more favourably to R5/R5C. As of right now, I'm on the fence, purely from an IQ standpoint. Really waiting on a test that clearly shows the C70's DGO sensor advantage over R5/R5C.
Yeah I’ll do these tests more fully when raw support comes to the C70, I really want to see it
would a gimbal be enough for the lack of ibis?
I look forward to get the R5 C as soon it uses the same autofocus as the R5. The autofocus in the R5 is clearly better.
Seems like a great camera, love how ”hybridy” it is! Also, very good video!!
can this camera record long hours video? like 2 hours video footage in a one video mp4 file?
Yes it can record extremely long files without stopping. I haven’t tested if they end up in one file but I assume so
Hey Tyler, question will the battery grip of the R5 work on the R5C?
On a canon website, said yes.
But when i enquired at my local shop, the Canon agent said no. So it is not clarified.
You need this or you will be carrying a lot of batteries.
With the extra cost of the grip and battery. You start to get close to the R3 and C70. Both better cameras in my mind with far better battery, even with the grip.
@@waynosfotos Thanks 🙏🏼
Nice one Tyler. I've used the R5 now for about 18 months and though not perfect, it's a great cam. If I had the money, I'd get a v-raptor but as of now, maybe this cam would be good. It'll work nicely with my existing R5. I have a quick question: would it be possible down the line for Canon to add C log 3 through an update? and likely?
Clog3 is already on there there so I’m guessing you meant clog2, and I’ve given up hope that they will add it. Seems unlikely
@@stalman when one of the Canon rep's was asked about CLog2 in one of the Q&A's -- they basically said that the dynamic range of the R5 wouldn't benefit from CLog2 as compared to the C70 or other cinema camera's that have more dynamic range. If that's true, it makes sense ... then another Canon Rep said "We're using CLog3 instead of also offering CLog2 because CLog3 is easier to grade" LOL ... the first answer sounds more honest to me!
Great video but the Panasonic LUMIX S5II is half the price and does every bit as much. I’m a Canon owner but I’m saving up for the S5II. I really wanted a C70 or C200 but those choices make no sense with Panasonic putting out hybrids at $2,200.00.
to me, whenever I see overly sharp footage, I immediately think "THAT'S DIGITAL"....maybe I am just old school but the C70 with the sharp but smooth image with the rolloff looks more "filmic" in almost every video I see - it looks more like 35mm Film cameras studios used to always use for every movie
I’m debating the R5c or the R3 as my b-cam for my C70. Price tag aside I feel like the R3 is a better option.
6k is only in raw with the r3
@@Eightpspi I don’t ever need more than 4K for my work and I do enough photography that I feel I’d miss the ibis.
@@motionbymike Ibis is so so handy to have, really surprised they took it out
What are the max fps in 1080p?
Lol this Is going to be my first cam ever but due to biz needs im looking for something in this quality everything I've seen so far its an amazing camera, Def pumped to mess around with it when it drops
Canon said the sensor or hardware isnt made for clog 2 so there would be no benefit. also the raw workarounds are kinda bogus.
Nice video and full of information. But everything looks great when is shot on snow.
Do cages from the r5 fit the r5c????
What is the difference between this & the 60D?
If you want to consider this a photo camera, then consider it the only photo camera on the market without ibis. And 8 seconds to go form photo to video. Wtf? This is isn’t even a dumb down version of the c70. A cinema camera has waveforms, audio inputs, etc. This fails as a great photo camera and fails as a great cinema camera. Double fail.
that 8 seconds' switch time would be a deal-breaker for me.
You don’t have stabilised RF glass.
Get Tamron EF G2.
It’s better than canon Glass at 1/3rd of the price.
Awesome review. Very nicely done. The lack of IBIS totally killed my R5c aspirations. But I like that Canon finally did away with that record limit.
souldnt I buy A7s III instead no Clog2
Did Sidney visit you? 😁
Major flaw on the R5C: it doesn't do auto iris with EF-lenses. Come on Canon!! My 5d MkIV can do it, the hardware can do it, but the software won't let us?!
great camera but lack od IBIS is an issue
wtf. That power thing I didn't know about, and that's a TOTAL deal breaker. Wow. Not being able to control the lens in higher frame rates? wtf.
Be sure to look at the data rates of 60p raw before you decide how often you’d actual use it.
What’s the rolling shutter like?
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This was one of the most helpful videos I've seen regarding the R5c; I've heard chirping about how the autofocus is downgraded a bit from the R5 in video mode, did you notice any other significant drop offs outside of talking head shooting?
Perfect camera for my style of shooting. The canon variable ND solves the internal ND issue + I’m staying with EF glass and Cine lenses.
Very good point, I should have mentioned it