Want another bit to tip it NightCorp's way? That grafitti on the wall reminds me a lot of a certain netrunner we deal a lot with in Phantom Liberty... 😉
I feel like using Péter Horváth was some kind of purposeful irony as a criminal killing the Mayor who gutted the police force would draw a lot attention to that issue, which adds weight to Night Corp.
Horvath's attack to me feels like symbolic. Rhyne gutted the police force and made them unable to properly deal with criminals and organized crime, so it'd be a kind of poetic justice for him to get killed by a criminal chromed out enough to make Maelstrom jealous. And if River hadn't been there it would have worked flawlessly Night Corp being behind both attacks makes sense as Ryhne not only neglected the city he was supposed to run, he sold it out to the very Corpo that has dreams of nuking Night City off the map. A double wammy in terms of betraying the city Richard Night founded, so the agents of his Corpo took out someone who was hurting the city and its people
He didn't gut the police force, he privatized it and then the private industry cut corners to an extreme degree. Much like how conservatives seek to privatize everything in the real world.
I dont think I'll ever tire of discussion of the lore / world of CP2077. Your amazingly well put together videos on it are a big reason I became and am now a huge fan. Theres 10 years of development time in this game and so many stories & mysteries that unfold in seemingly unrelated places and times that you could still pump out stuff like this for a couple of years. As always thanks for making my night better Sam
I have many more theories and ideas to discuss through other videos so yeah, hopefully I can keep Cyberpunk going as a channel staple until Orion. I will have to start expanding into other games though to keep this channel alive but tbh that's quite an exciting prospect
It would have been a bad idea for Holt to kill Rhyne, but it being an even worse idea to do so by charging in and trying to eviscerate Rhyne didn't stop Horvath. Holt could have been more subtly manipulated via his ambitions and desire for power, and if he was ever directly tied to the killing, it would make it easier to get Peralez in as mayor...another card the manipulators could have played if it had been necessary.
The one thing that kind of struck me on another play through, I don't think Horvath was the only being used. If you remember the cyberpsychosis meds mission, that dude was plotting to kill the mayor. He was going to therapy and then just up and stopped and argues the meds don't work.
Another aspect is that during the conversation with Liz and Jeff, where you're reporting on what you've found, Liz gets visibly nervous when you suggest you think a corp was behind it and eagerly tries to get Jeff to agree if you instead suggest Holt was behind it... The developers have snuck in some very subtle facial expression changes to drop hints to the player
@@cyberninja9387 Given that she is sort of in on the whole Dream On quest, she might have been in on this one as well. Also, she could have got other reasons to be nervous about corps. I recall that she was complaining about how many corps are trying to "work with" them, so suggestions about "some corp decided to switch out the carrot in favor of the sharpened stick" might be already enough to get on her nerves.
I thinl Elizabeth is onemof the agents spoken about in code on the terminal. It was said one agent would stay. And jeff cant be the agent. So that leaves liz. Shes totally in on it but also being brainchanged subtly too. As she has a slight break in the noodle shop. I hate its such a cliff hanger so i cant wait to see more.
@@Bee_Mavrick Yup. People kinda sleep on the very real possibility that Elizabeth isn't even being changed (or at least not that much). She could be like the wife on the Truman Show. People also seem to underestimate the very real possibility that everything we like about Peralez is just the programming, and the shady stuff about him (like the Caymans bank account) is the real guy. NightCorp is making him a better person against his will because they want a spotless mayor.
That's what I've always wondered, who... or what controls Mr. Blue Eyes and Night Corp? The incessant blue eyes makes me think he is a proxy/controlled by the AI Mastermind.
Given Rhyne was allied with Arasaka would make Militech and Myers a much interesting candidate, if anything the entire Dogtown subtle story in the expansion points to the fight between those two corps to be in a cold state but still pretty much a thing. It wouldn't surprise me if the entire thing was a Militech op given the love 6th street gang have for Peralez and they are allied with Militech and Night Corp just happened to take advantage and spin the whole thing.
Given that Rhyne was allied with Arasaka and probably the only reason the city didn't fall to Myers years ago I feel like Militech and NUSA would be also a possibility, 6th street gang love Peralez and they are allied with Militech, maybe it was their op and Mr Blue eyes just happened to spin it in his favor. I'd like to point out Night Corp isn't the only corp that can alter peoples minds, Militech also has this shit according to the novel that came out not long ago, and it's fucking terrifying what they can actually do. Reading that and then playing the expansion makes the entire Songbird and Tower ending very suspicious. Feel like Militech is playing the long subterfuge con and getting people fooled while Yorinobu destroys Arasaka from the inside, just like they did with the Night City bombing, it was their op yet a lot of people still blame Johnny for it.
Hey SamBram, I recently got an ending with Alt and kinda realised something. Alt mentions that "The body's immune system are attacking its own neurons" Is that not the exact same symptoms of Multiple Sclerosis? And what condition do we hear that Biodyne has developed a new treatment for? MS Perhaps V's reward for the crystal Palace heist is access to the treatment
Honestly this quest arc would have made for a much better main story for Cyberpunk, this creates a huge rabbit hole you can fall into leading to so many possibilities: siding with a corporation to size more control, joining with a gang with this info to press for more territory, helping the police regain there purpose, outing everyone to the public causing total anarchy, playing everyone against each other, this just gives way more possibilities to the story and would have given so much more to this world. Man, the way this could be approached would definitely have made for a much better main story.
I sort of get Rhynes decision to declare Pacifica independant. Half is run by Voodoo Boys, and half is run by Barghest. Neither let's law enforcement get anywhere near a foothold to do their jobs.
Thank you for solving Horvarth's tune. I didn't put the two together. I don't disagree with Night Corp being top of the list for 'Who killed Mayor Rynne'. Horvarth could have been a "crash test dummy" of their mind bending programme. Night Corp certainly could pay for it, and using Maelstrom as the go between surgeons. While I had noticed Horvarth's model being used in the street outside Misty's it did look like he had been shot and killed to me. However maybe he had been stunned by whatever the Max Tac was using. What bothers me, and V picked up on this, was that when Holt left he took Rynne's head of security with him, leaving the Mayor alone except for the camera guy and the security guard out front. They also left right before Horvarth's arrival and the disabling of the security screen. The timing has to be questioned. Either Holt was lucky, it was just coincidence or he was in fact in the know about the Horvarth's attempt. And this raises a question. Could there actually have been two separate attempts to eliminate Rynne? One being Arasaka who were becoming uneasy about Rynne's resistance to their plans in Watson and seeing Holt as a better alternative. It is shown when V meets Holt at the Colonel's party, that he is willing to do anything for Arasaka. Arasaka 'acquired' Horvarth after his first stint in jail, chromed him up - the chrome work does look a bit too good for the usual ripper docs the Maelstrom use, and sent him to target Rynne, warning Holt in advance who took away his head of security before Horvarth's arrival. Two the mysterious stranger who enters the Red Queen's Race is Mr Blue Eyes representing Night Corp who also want to eliminate Rynne as it looks like he is going to win the election. I agree the risk that someone else would put the wreath on before Rynne seems great and V shows that the spiked wreath will try to kill anyone who puts it on. Its rather hit or miss, just like Horvarth. Neither plans are that great considering the variables and who may be behind them. Its all a bit amateurish and that may indicate that Holt could have been behind both attempts. Which leads me to Three - Holt did it on his own. He certainly had access to money that could have financed Horvarth's upgrades, the head of security was obviously a Holt man, and he knew where Rynne would be after the Mayor's speech. If Horvarth didn't get him the wreath would. Arasaka and Night Corp would have to rely on third parties to keep track of Rynne while Holt knew Rynne's every move. By the way I feel that the graffiti in the Red Queen's Race was done by the Animals when they trashed the place. Can you really see High rollers like Mayor Rynne going to a place with graffiti all over the walls. 'Corpos must die' seems to be the Animals way of putting anyone who did snoop around to think it was just punks. I don't believe any of the graffiti was there before Rynne's death. makes no sense.
They broke into the Red Queen's Race the day before the attack to set up the BD, right? Doing so was probably difficult, and going back to do it again would probably be more difficult, perhaps they sent Horvath expecting he would fail. After all, the Mayor is bound to have armed guards, and considering that River downed him with just a few shots they clearly didn't give him much in the way of armor (which also makes him a self-disposing asset). They could probably guess that the stress of the attack would cause Rhyne to definitely want to go to the Red Queen's Race to de-stress on the exact day they wanted him there. They wouldn't necessarily know whether Rhyne had already intended on going, and the longer it took him to go, the more likely the spiked BD would have been found, so they needed to give him a push.
heres a thought, if your BD den got broken into, especially if people of high importance were to frequent it, wouldnt you have backups around to replace any around on the day of the break in to make sure your clients are not touching damaged goods, if anything, i am more inclined to think that they put a live port available in the room, and maybe the whole reason Netwatch is so hyperactive around the city is theyre looking for someone who used the blackwall to attack the BD wreath, and the only reason V didnt also get fried was her slim link to the blackwall that was or will be used by So Mi
May have mentioned it in a previous video somewhat related to this one from a while back, regarding Peter Horvath. If I'm recalling correctly, his former boss V and River question mentions Peter suffered from headaches and delusions about Holt being after him. You touched on it briefly, about how someone (Nightcorp?) hiring Horvath and decking him out in chrome to kill Rhyne. Its a possibility, but I feel like his boss mentioning the headaches means Peter could have been subject to the same sort of brainwashing the Peralez's are. Love how its all left vague and unresolved. Hopefully we get a follow up in the sequel. This conspiracy plot could make for a great story!
it’s interesting just how many links to future quests there are in the early game, especially for river. seeing the holo reenactment of horvath being killed, the conversation in konpeki plaza and especially the watson lockdown but also panam and nash in the afterlife with jackie.
Sam just wanted to say I love your content bro. Been watching for a minute and your vids alongside some others really inspired me to create my own. Keep it up man!
Nightcorp doesn't even have to be putting Night City above the corps (in general). They can have the more self-serving motive of putting *their control* of Night City above other corps' control of Night City.
The other thing here is that maelstrom was the coverup gang for where the van went to flee. In addition they had a mole in militech to get the technology from them.
My thought was that Horvath was sent after Rhyne as a method of getting him to Red Queen's Race. Something stressful to reliably get him into a spot where they can kill him subtly. If Horvath gets him, then good, but they're plan was the spiked BD at RQR all along.
I always thought the CN-07 was cynosure opposed to carpe Noctem. The cynosure bunker is filled with banners with CN-07 in the small print at the bottom
You should 100% do a "Let's Play" series of this so we a;; see how you play, and what drives your choices. Would also make for great Walkthrough material for those looking to complete the game with the morally best choices, or what benefits V the most (like letting that shady ripper live, or not hitting Fingers).
I've seen a theory online that Mr Blue Eyes is a proxy or robot stand in for Richard Night himself. The Night Corp connection speaks for itself. It's repeatedly mentioned that the circumstances surrounding Night's death are murky, with the only known detail being that he was looking at the city when he died. But how could that be the only detail known? As for why he faked his death? The standard 'can't kill someone who's already dead' Looking at Night Portrait in Cyberpunk Red, his hairstyle is similar to Mr Blue Eyes and has Blue Eyes
There must of been a bunch of cut content regarding Nightcorp, Blue Eyes, the Peralezes and the Rhyne murder. Really strange how River just kinda drops it. Yeah he "reopens" the case then he gets fired from the police.
Makes so much sense, also during the quest, brainwashed Peralez seems very impatient to confirm that Holt was guilty. Basically he is just waiting for you to say it. For some time I was thinking that Myers had something to do with it. But Night Corp seems more likely.
Have you done a video on Aguilar and the Cuban cartels? I'd love to learn more about the different powerful factions outside the us. I want to learn more of Aguilars lore, why he's so feared, and theorize about how they might tie back in
I think Rhyne was about to destroy the balance of power. In Konpeki Plaza we learn that Arasaka wanted to expand in Watson, eventually taking over completely. Rhyne being a complete sellout to Arasaka, same as Holt would have destroyed NC's independance and made the city effectively an Arasaka base. To preserve the status quo he had to be removed quickly and any chance of his deputy Holt to continue ruined too. While at the same time conditioning a successor in Peralezez for an independant NC.
Your chain of evidence is well reasoned. In addition the fact that the Peralez, who are under Night Corp control, hire a third party to investigate it when Holt is making himself a big easy and visible suspect makes me think the whole thing was an attempt to draw River away from the actual truth. River was investigating too well, so throw a distraction via an untrained merc via the Perlezs to draw River away from the truth and to Holt. That they originally picked Judy, who has zero investigation ability, makes that more likely. Night Corp can underestimate V's abilities depending on the player choices, but no matter what Night Corp still remain undetected.
Also makes sense with Johnny(?) warning you about how deep it goes. Pretty sure the mighty Johnny Silverhand wouldn't be scared of a little mayor candidate. NightCorp however is a whole different beast.
I always thought it was pretty clear when we got the call telling us to not tell Peralez. That Mr Blue Eyes and the people behind him got rid of Rhynes.
There is the theory that V is already somewhat infected by CN-07 after jacking in to Sandra Dorsett. Maybe the link between the melody on the soundtrack and what the cyberpsycho is humming is meant to imply the background influence of Operation carpe noctum in both of them.
Think about where we hear Rite of Passage - usually when we are in the net confronting an AI or V's situation with the relic. Rite of Passage could be some kind of meta song. We hear it as players because the characters hear it whenever they are in the net. Horvath could've been humming it because he was under the control of an AI and it was just going through his head.
Please let this be the start of some Cyberpunk lore vids, it's so interesting. Until I started watching them recently I had no idea how deep it went. I've got so many theories but one random thought occurred to me yesterday. 66th are basically the NUSA/FIA proxy in KC, and they "have a hard on for Peralez". Knight Corp have been using the Cynosure tech on Peralez, so maybe Night Corp are gonna get Peralez to side with NUSA. More likely the way he will fix crime is by controlling everyone via aids but that's the beauty of cyberpunk, it leaves 20 open roads for each situation, like a junction.
So I disagree that Holt didn't kill Rhyne only because I think he works for Night Corp or is in their pocket in some way or another. My thinking was Horvath was supposed to kill Rhyne and Holt was supposed to kill him but River was there and stopped the whole thing. Holt in my thinking is already someone under their thumb (specifically so he spy and tell Nightcorp about Rhyne's dealings with the corps) but the people don't like him and the whole surviving the incident and being the hero was supposed to change that. I believe all the events we see is fixing the problem and with how disliked Holt is they can't have him in the position so they brainwash Jeff and Liz who is. It's convoluted but that was my thinking when I played through the whole incident.
Great video! I ultimately agree that the graffiti was placed there without being involved in the plan but I think It's 100% a tiger claws Graffiti. The japanese lettering is pretty conclusive, no? It's also barely anywhere in the badlands and all over night city, including quite a few in japantown
Love your videos and dont regret the sub keep up the great work. Sorry had to skip the phantom liberty vids for now bc i cant afford the dlc and do not want spoilers. Up side i got content ready and waiting for me in the future.
I think Péter Horváth was a red herring used by likely Nightcorp maybe even used as a way to get Lucius to the club to cool off after an assassination attempt. But it is just a wild guess.
I always knew most big corporations in NC had skeletons in their closets, but Night Corp strangely stood out to me as the cleanest. I had a feeling their facade is a mere cover up of their sinister dealing, and this video pretty much reinforces that thought.
I don't know if it would impact the analysis, but in the Time Of the Red sourcebook, Rhynes is listed in the Who's Who as a major figure and activist in Watson. As he also went to, basically, NC University, I think there's solid conjecture to say he was put into the position by NC to begin with. Sadly, power corrupts, so on and so forth... Maybe that was the impetus for the mind control program to begin with. Crazy throeries... this game just grows them like a field of weeds.
I also think with what we do know, Night Corp is the most likely suspect. Of course, Yorinobu is trying to weaken Arasaka and getting rid of Rhyne so that Jefferson Peralez can be Mayor could help him with that, but I don't know, Night Corp still makes more sense and they for sure have the tech and skill to pull it off.
If if didn't know better, i would say that the item that controls a person's actions (especially if they're super chromed) would be the Osiris Chip. But that's a 3rd party mission from cyberpunk 2020.
@@freddycisneros915 thank you for asking. My reasoning, for this is what we know about b@d is they are a very skilled net runner who doesn’t like to hurt people as seen when we find that one net runners body and there’s a shark talking about how bad warn them about the virus they were going to use and that not being a big fan of b@d when this person died, we know that b@b felt awful About it. The gig we do for b@d and I always found it strange that songbird just knows who v so well I knew they were reliable to contact so that helps the idea that she is b@b I think I remember seeing a video mention this that scabs eventually tried to hunt down b@d to only find a death trap. I know this sounds rambling and I apologize for that but my point is Songbird being a elite net runner, but also trying to keep her name out of the headlines would use an alias and her caring about some random NetRunner dying on her watch makes sense for her character and using V to install some malware somewhere makes sense because she can’t physically do it herself because of her position in the government with Myers. I hope this makes sense and I apologize if it’s not a great explanation and poor grammar it’s hard for me. Anyway I just thought this was a cool theory
I always thought rhyne was killed over his deal with arasaka. He was getting outta control, making choices on his own which probably wasnt in the calculations of what ever ai the city government might be using. Richard night could be an engram somewhere. Maybe thats whos controlling the man with blue eyes. Idk. I went over the game as much as i could and just assumed night corp somehow was involved, that each corp would have players on the board, and maybe v is involved some way and had three cover stories, which could explain the life paths. I never seen such a game as this. When it comes to the actual choices its all so blended that even the obvious ones go unnoticed. Ive always said were just editing V's brain dance. All those calls in the end were sent to v somewhere, its never explaned why v never picked up because some endings v could have just talked to everyone after the end. So i assume his neural link doesnt work for some endings. But then why Even add that in. As if v would encounter those with a busted neural link. So did his coprocessor boot up again. Idk but it feels like were editing a bd
From some wondering around the red queens race. It seems that Rhyne was the only one there and had a private room. So if night corp or Holt wanted to do it. It would have been easy to arrange. But the thing I dont get is, why trash it. Unless Rhyne was the only user there. Like the NCPD is already corrupt af. Leaving a money trail to the animals, after having an easy hush hush for the police. Why?
I want to preface this by saying I haven't had a chance to play the dlc yet, but my first impression when initially playing the game was it was the AI's and they wanted suspicion on Holt just to help ensure Perez got elected.
Where, in the city map, is the university? You'd expect it to be quite large and quite prominent, but I don't recall seeing it. Slightly surprising, given how good CDPR generally are in filling in all the blanks!
Well it's definitely Night corp considering how that one prophet guy who looks like a certain UA-camr basically yapped about all of the creepy yet true things that are happening in night city, the omes who came to pick him up actually came from Night Corp one of the people he managed to convert to his side said he was taken by men with blue eyes. It was Night Corp keeping watch on Jeff, creepier isnthe fact it was Mr. Nights foundation or something in line with education that helped Liz and Jeff obtain most of their educational achievements in the first place which means the brainwashing might've even been deeper and more fucked up than we know; it was Night corp that has been watching and overseeing both Militech and even Arasaka. What's more ominous is how Nightcorp has mostly turned everyone's attentions to Arasaka and Militech seamlessly going unnoticed by a lot of people as anti corps go Night Corp is the one that has been consistently shown to be the most secretive and the most dangerous as well as the one tied to the city itself (Obviously) and the jnderground facilities. What's most terrifying is that Songbird might've been working for Night Corp via Mr. Blue eyes during the assassination on Lucius.
I hold it was blue eyes and the AIs from beyond the blackwall that are a aprt of the real plot/"subplot" in the game that killed him to get paralez into the role. They know they can leverage anti holt sentiment to get their guy in and that spiked BD had all those blackwall static hallmarks in it. V's scream is also similar to what happens to blackwall iced people. Holt just wanted to the death at the club to be covered up because he was hoping to ride high off of Rhynes memory and poll numbers since he was his right hand man.
Aren't you the optimist. If Peralez was just the right guy, NCorp wouldn't need to overwrite his psyche. I am fairly certain rogue AIs are involved here. Lilith and Maelstrom, the call at the end of Dream On and the messages in This Corrosion, Mr Blue Eyes and So Mi's moon plan - it's all connected. Maybe NCorp is under AI control after all. But this is much bigger than just a group of philantropic netrunners. Still, great video as always!
Night Corp could have paid or mind controlled a Wraith to sabotage the brain dance or the graffiti could have been a false flag. I've also been wondering for a while if b@d works with or for Night Corp?
Total side track but Rhyne reminds me that in this world where you can get fairly cheap calorie limiters and bionic stomach implants, basically erasing the cause for obesity some people are actually choosing to be obese for... aesthetic reasons.
i strongly think nightcorp was behind because that point where nc corp want to help people not corp and paralez is best for that work easy point is matching
well with the whole game being about arasaka stealing souls, ive always thought it was another prototype soulkiller device, and placed because Rhyne was in the plaza when Saburo's death happened and may have witnessed V's escape, this also would go with the whole garry mission. As for nightcorp, ever noticed how Peralez, arthur jenkins and mr blue eyes have almost family genetics similarity of facial features 20:30 have you ever investigated what the Japanese calligraphy actually says on the graffiti? ok, heres a mild sidetrack, did some looking into it, and reading left to right makes no sense, but right to left it could be a very stylised, like most graffiti So Mi where the Mi instead of being flat was dragged down .... How long has this graffiti been in the game? because if you think of how So Mi looks once you meet them, its not far wrong
I'm going to put this out there, and if true, it could be a whole other can of worms. But the reason why there were two different attempts on his life could be because of a SAC. Stand Alone Complex. That is to say, two different groups sought to end his life each in their own way. One failed, the other didn't.
I always wonder, why does cyberpunk do this with so many quests? Why do they give us some answers but leave the biggest questions unsolved .. and then I see ur videos and I realize why they did it.. take for example the werewolf contract u get early on in the Witcher 3, the first time u play it the twist is so cool and memorable, but on a 2nd play through there’s no intrigue what so ever cuz u already know the twist.. while in cyberpunk, each play through is a chance to gain more insight and clues in to so many of the mysteries within the quests, and it allows for so much thought and theory crafting like this.. which one is better? It’s hard to say, cuz I think the way the W3 does it makes the quests more memorable and conclusive, but cyberpunk, if u don’t play the game multiple times, the quests will be easier to forget because u don’t get that closure to bring it all home
So many questions and were the Merc in the middle of it. all of our Vs are wrapped up in this as the mussle who doesnt need mind contol just a paycheck. as most of us want whats best for this city and morer importanly trying to save our selves. careful how far down the ribbit hole you go chooms
Want another bit to tip it NightCorp's way? That grafitti on the wall reminds me a lot of a certain netrunner we deal a lot with in Phantom Liberty... 😉
Omg Blair! You might be right bro! 😮🤯🤯🤯
Call me stupid, but I can't tell who/what you're refering to (edit: I just got to the grafitti bit)
@@TheMANGADUDE2 Songbird
damnn song bird is also with blue eyes now so make alot fuckin sense
Not just the graffiti. The spiked BD that killed Rhyne produces the same Blackwall effect when V puts it on.
I feel like using Péter Horváth was some kind of purposeful irony as a criminal killing the Mayor who gutted the police force would draw a lot attention to that issue, which adds weight to Night Corp.
Especially since the questline branches out into the dream on quest
Horvath's attack to me feels like symbolic.
Rhyne gutted the police force and made them unable to properly deal with criminals and organized crime, so it'd be a kind of poetic justice for him to get killed by a criminal chromed out enough to make Maelstrom jealous. And if River hadn't been there it would have worked flawlessly
Night Corp being behind both attacks makes sense as Ryhne not only neglected the city he was supposed to run, he sold it out to the very Corpo that has dreams of nuking Night City off the map. A double wammy in terms of betraying the city Richard Night founded, so the agents of his Corpo took out someone who was hurting the city and its people
He didn't gut the police force, he privatized it and then the private industry cut corners to an extreme degree. Much like how conservatives seek to privatize everything in the real world.
I want to know who told river or who led him on that trail. Would have been cool part of dlc to play. And i love the investigating.
I dont think I'll ever tire of discussion of the lore / world of CP2077. Your amazingly well put together videos on it are a big reason I became and am now a huge fan. Theres 10 years of development time in this game and so many stories & mysteries that unfold in seemingly unrelated places and times that you could still pump out stuff like this for a couple of years. As always thanks for making my night better Sam
I have many more theories and ideas to discuss through other videos so yeah, hopefully I can keep Cyberpunk going as a channel staple until Orion. I will have to start expanding into other games though to keep this channel alive but tbh that's quite an exciting prospect
It would have been a bad idea for Holt to kill Rhyne, but it being an even worse idea to do so by charging in and trying to eviscerate Rhyne didn't stop Horvath. Holt could have been more subtly manipulated via his ambitions and desire for power, and if he was ever directly tied to the killing, it would make it easier to get Peralez in as mayor...another card the manipulators could have played if it had been necessary.
The one thing that kind of struck me on another play through, I don't think Horvath was the only being used. If you remember the cyberpsychosis meds mission, that dude was plotting to kill the mayor. He was going to therapy and then just up and stopped and argues the meds don't work.
Another aspect is that during the conversation with Liz and Jeff, where you're reporting on what you've found, Liz gets visibly nervous when you suggest you think a corp was behind it and eagerly tries to get Jeff to agree if you instead suggest Holt was behind it... The developers have snuck in some very subtle facial expression changes to drop hints to the player
So your saying she was in on it
@@cyberninja9387
Given that she is sort of in on the whole Dream On quest, she might have been in on this one as well.
Also, she could have got other reasons to be nervous about corps. I recall that she was complaining about how many corps are trying to "work with" them, so suggestions about "some corp decided to switch out the carrot in favor of the sharpened stick" might be already enough to get on her nerves.
I thinl Elizabeth is onemof the agents spoken about in code on the terminal. It was said one agent would stay. And jeff cant be the agent. So that leaves liz. Shes totally in on it but also being brainchanged subtly too. As she has a slight break in the noodle shop. I hate its such a cliff hanger so i cant wait to see more.
@@Bee_Mavrick Yup. People kinda sleep on the very real possibility that Elizabeth isn't even being changed (or at least not that much). She could be like the wife on the Truman Show.
People also seem to underestimate the very real possibility that everything we like about Peralez is just the programming, and the shady stuff about him (like the Caymans bank account) is the real guy. NightCorp is making him a better person against his will because they want a spotless mayor.
I’d feel like mr blue eyes and nightcorp are the most likely. But it could also be something else…something more sinister (which is saying a lot)
That's what I've always wondered, who... or what controls Mr. Blue Eyes and Night Corp? The incessant blue eyes makes me think he is a proxy/controlled by the AI Mastermind.
Mr Blue Eyes being a rogue AI is a pretty prominent theory as well
Given Rhyne was allied with Arasaka would make Militech and Myers a much interesting candidate, if anything the entire Dogtown subtle story in the expansion points to the fight between those two corps to be in a cold state but still pretty much a thing. It wouldn't surprise me if the entire thing was a Militech op given the love 6th street gang have for Peralez and they are allied with Militech and Night Corp just happened to take advantage and spin the whole thing.
That’s what I love about this game. There isn’t a clear answer on who did it. Just speculation and theories (good ones tho)
Blackwall Rogue AI
Given that Rhyne was allied with Arasaka and probably the only reason the city didn't fall to Myers years ago I feel like Militech and NUSA would be also a possibility, 6th street gang love Peralez and they are allied with Militech, maybe it was their op and Mr Blue eyes just happened to spin it in his favor.
I'd like to point out Night Corp isn't the only corp that can alter peoples minds, Militech also has this shit according to the novel that came out not long ago, and it's fucking terrifying what they can actually do.
Reading that and then playing the expansion makes the entire Songbird and Tower ending very suspicious. Feel like Militech is playing the long subterfuge con and getting people fooled while Yorinobu destroys Arasaka from the inside, just like they did with the Night City bombing, it was their op yet a lot of people still blame Johnny for it.
yea militech is still trying to restart cynosure
Hey SamBram,
I recently got an ending with Alt and kinda realised something.
Alt mentions that "The body's immune system are attacking its own neurons"
Is that not the exact same symptoms of Multiple Sclerosis?
And what condition do we hear that Biodyne has developed a new treatment for?
MS
Perhaps V's reward for the crystal Palace heist is access to the treatment
Honestly this quest arc would have made for a much better main story for Cyberpunk, this creates a huge rabbit hole you can fall into leading to so many possibilities: siding with a corporation to size more control, joining with a gang with this info to press for more territory, helping the police regain there purpose, outing everyone to the public causing total anarchy, playing everyone against each other, this just gives way more possibilities to the story and would have given so much more to this world.
Man, the way this could be approached would definitely have made for a much better main story.
But that would require CDPR to create an actual dynamic story instead if railroad we got.
This is honestly the best channel that covers cyberpunk lore it’s incredible the stuff you do
I sort of get Rhynes decision to declare Pacifica independant. Half is run by Voodoo Boys, and half is run by Barghest. Neither let's law enforcement get anywhere near a foothold to do their jobs.
it was sam.
this entire questline with the thing/ppl in the shadows altering the peralez's minds is just fantastic.
You mean Judy. That was Judy
Thank you for solving Horvarth's tune. I didn't put the two together.
I don't disagree with Night Corp being top of the list for 'Who killed Mayor Rynne'.
Horvarth could have been a "crash test dummy" of their mind bending programme. Night Corp certainly could pay for it, and using Maelstrom as the go between surgeons.
While I had noticed Horvarth's model being used in the street outside Misty's it did look like he had been shot and killed to me. However maybe he had been stunned by whatever the Max Tac was using.
What bothers me, and V picked up on this, was that when Holt left he took Rynne's head of security with him, leaving the Mayor alone except for the camera guy and the security guard out front. They also left right before Horvarth's arrival and the disabling of the security screen. The timing has to be questioned. Either Holt was lucky, it was just coincidence or he was in fact in the know about the Horvarth's attempt.
And this raises a question. Could there actually have been two separate attempts to eliminate Rynne?
One being Arasaka who were becoming uneasy about Rynne's resistance to their plans in Watson and seeing Holt as a better alternative. It is shown when V meets Holt at the Colonel's party, that he is willing to do anything for Arasaka. Arasaka 'acquired' Horvarth after his first stint in jail, chromed him up - the chrome work does look a bit too good for the usual ripper docs the Maelstrom use, and sent him to target Rynne, warning Holt in advance who took away his head of security before Horvarth's arrival.
Two the mysterious stranger who enters the Red Queen's Race is Mr Blue Eyes representing Night Corp who also want to eliminate Rynne as it looks like he is going to win the election. I agree the risk that someone else would put the wreath on before Rynne seems great and V shows that the spiked wreath will try to kill anyone who puts it on. Its rather hit or miss, just like Horvarth.
Neither plans are that great considering the variables and who may be behind them. Its all a bit amateurish and that may indicate that Holt could have been behind both attempts.
Which leads me to Three - Holt did it on his own. He certainly had access to money that could have financed Horvarth's upgrades, the head of security was obviously a Holt man, and he knew where Rynne would be after the Mayor's speech. If Horvarth didn't get him the wreath would. Arasaka and Night Corp would have to rely on third parties to keep track of Rynne while Holt knew Rynne's every move.
By the way I feel that the graffiti in the Red Queen's Race was done by the Animals when they trashed the place. Can you really see High rollers like Mayor Rynne going to a place with graffiti all over the walls. 'Corpos must die' seems to be the Animals way of putting anyone who did snoop around to think it was just punks. I don't believe any of the graffiti was there before Rynne's death. makes no sense.
They broke into the Red Queen's Race the day before the attack to set up the BD, right? Doing so was probably difficult, and going back to do it again would probably be more difficult, perhaps they sent Horvath expecting he would fail. After all, the Mayor is bound to have armed guards, and considering that River downed him with just a few shots they clearly didn't give him much in the way of armor (which also makes him a self-disposing asset). They could probably guess that the stress of the attack would cause Rhyne to definitely want to go to the Red Queen's Race to de-stress on the exact day they wanted him there. They wouldn't necessarily know whether Rhyne had already intended on going, and the longer it took him to go, the more likely the spiked BD would have been found, so they needed to give him a push.
heres a thought, if your BD den got broken into, especially if people of high importance were to frequent it, wouldnt you have backups around to replace any around on the day of the break in to make sure your clients are not touching damaged goods, if anything, i am more inclined to think that they put a live port available in the room, and maybe the whole reason Netwatch is so hyperactive around the city is theyre looking for someone who used the blackwall to attack the BD wreath, and the only reason V didnt also get fried was her slim link to the blackwall that was or will be used by So Mi
May have mentioned it in a previous video somewhat related to this one from a while back, regarding Peter Horvath. If I'm recalling correctly, his former boss V and River question mentions Peter suffered from headaches and delusions about Holt being after him. You touched on it briefly, about how someone (Nightcorp?) hiring Horvath and decking him out in chrome to kill Rhyne. Its a possibility, but I feel like his boss mentioning the headaches means Peter could have been subject to the same sort of brainwashing the Peralez's are. Love how its all left vague and unresolved. Hopefully we get a follow up in the sequel. This conspiracy plot could make for a great story!
it’s interesting just how many links to future quests there are in the early game, especially for river.
seeing the holo reenactment of horvath being killed, the conversation in konpeki plaza and especially the watson lockdown but also panam and nash in the afterlife with jackie.
I think there's a possibility that the 2 attacks aren't connected arasaka could have sent the first to be a approval boost and night corp did the 2nd.
Sam just wanted to say I love your content bro. Been watching for a minute and your vids alongside some others really inspired me to create my own. Keep it up man!
That's great to hear. Go for it Choom!
Nightcorp doesn't even have to be putting Night City above the corps (in general). They can have the more self-serving motive of putting *their control* of Night City above other corps' control of Night City.
The other thing here is that maelstrom was the coverup gang for where the van went to flee. In addition they had a mole in militech to get the technology from them.
Would love to see you do coverage on DD2, even though it didn’t rank highest in your poll!
My thought was that Horvath was sent after Rhyne as a method of getting him to Red Queen's Race. Something stressful to reliably get him into a spot where they can kill him subtly. If Horvath gets him, then good, but they're plan was the spiked BD at RQR all along.
It will be a sad time if Sam ever stops post these vids. I enjoy listening to them.
Mr. Blue Eyes.The G-Man of Cyberpunk.
In a 1 vs 1, my money is on the G-Man from Half Life.
@@removefromme Most likely.
I always thought the CN-07 was cynosure opposed to carpe Noctem. The cynosure bunker is filled with banners with CN-07 in the small print at the bottom
You should 100% do a "Let's Play" series of this so we a;; see how you play, and what drives your choices. Would also make for great Walkthrough material for those looking to complete the game with the morally best choices, or what benefits V the most (like letting that shady ripper live, or not hitting Fingers).
9:05 stealth is not required, you can still grab her while in combat. It is tricky to make it easier frag her to knock her down and get behind her
I absolutely love how there is so much lore and connections throughout the world to make it feel so lived in compared to other games
I've seen a theory online that Mr Blue Eyes is a proxy or robot stand in for Richard Night himself.
The Night Corp connection speaks for itself.
It's repeatedly mentioned that the circumstances surrounding Night's death are murky, with the only known detail being that he was looking at the city when he died. But how could that be the only detail known?
As for why he faked his death? The standard 'can't kill someone who's already dead'
Looking at Night Portrait in Cyberpunk Red, his hairstyle is similar to Mr Blue Eyes and has Blue Eyes
This whole mission to me, was a Cyberpunk version of The Wire.
There must of been a bunch of cut content regarding Nightcorp, Blue Eyes, the Peralezes and the Rhyne murder. Really strange how River just kinda drops it. Yeah he "reopens" the case then he gets fired from the police.
Cyberpunk 2077s lore and world building is so perfect man. What a game.
Makes so much sense, also during the quest, brainwashed Peralez seems very impatient to confirm that Holt was guilty. Basically he is just waiting for you to say it. For some time I was thinking that Myers had something to do with it. But Night Corp seems more likely.
Have you done a video on Aguilar and the Cuban cartels? I'd love to learn more about the different powerful factions outside the us. I want to learn more of Aguilars lore, why he's so feared, and theorize about how they might tie back in
I think Rhyne was about to destroy the balance of power. In Konpeki Plaza we learn that Arasaka wanted to expand in Watson, eventually taking over completely. Rhyne being a complete sellout to Arasaka, same as Holt would have destroyed NC's independance and made the city effectively an Arasaka base. To preserve the status quo he had to be removed quickly and any chance of his deputy Holt to continue ruined too. While at the same time conditioning a successor in Peralezez for an independant NC.
Your chain of evidence is well reasoned. In addition the fact that the Peralez, who are under Night Corp control, hire a third party to investigate it when Holt is making himself a big easy and visible suspect makes me think the whole thing was an attempt to draw River away from the actual truth. River was investigating too well, so throw a distraction via an untrained merc via the Perlezs to draw River away from the truth and to Holt. That they originally picked Judy, who has zero investigation ability, makes that more likely. Night Corp can underestimate V's abilities depending on the player choices, but no matter what Night Corp still remain undetected.
My boy Sam’s become the VaatiVidya of Cyberpunk
Also makes sense with Johnny(?) warning you about how deep it goes. Pretty sure the mighty Johnny Silverhand wouldn't be scared of a little mayor candidate. NightCorp however is a whole different beast.
As usual, great content from SamBram, my goto channel for Cyberpunk 2077 detes. Great whodunnit. Who was gaslighting Peralez?
I took the graffiti to be part of the animals trashing the place.
I always thought it was pretty clear when we got the call telling us to not tell Peralez. That Mr Blue Eyes and the people behind him got rid of Rhynes.
Man I didn't even know you can interrogate the Animals leader. I'm always learning so much new about a game I've played so many times.
Horvath looks like the guy who spazzed out on the crew in Edgerunners
Whoooo one of the first, been waiting for this mystery Sam and im very interested on what you bring to the convo!
This is way detailed choom to what I've been saying! Good stuff will be back to watch more videos
Fantastic video thank you!
There is the theory that V is already somewhat infected by CN-07 after jacking in to Sandra Dorsett. Maybe the link between the melody on the soundtrack and what the cyberpsycho is humming is meant to imply the background influence of Operation carpe noctum in both of them.
Brilliant Analysis. Thanks!
Think about where we hear Rite of Passage - usually when we are in the net confronting an AI or V's situation with the relic. Rite of Passage could be some kind of meta song. We hear it as players because the characters hear it whenever they are in the net. Horvath could've been humming it because he was under the control of an AI and it was just going through his head.
Please let this be the start of some Cyberpunk lore vids, it's so interesting. Until I started watching them recently I had no idea how deep it went.
I've got so many theories but one random thought occurred to me yesterday.
66th are basically the NUSA/FIA proxy in KC, and they "have a hard on for Peralez".
Knight Corp have been using the Cynosure tech on Peralez, so maybe Night Corp are gonna get Peralez to side with NUSA.
More likely the way he will fix crime is by controlling everyone via aids but that's the beauty of cyberpunk, it leaves 20 open roads for each situation, like a junction.
So I disagree that Holt didn't kill Rhyne only because I think he works for Night Corp or is in their pocket in some way or another. My thinking was Horvath was supposed to kill Rhyne and Holt was supposed to kill him but River was there and stopped the whole thing. Holt in my thinking is already someone under their thumb (specifically so he spy and tell Nightcorp about Rhyne's dealings with the corps) but the people don't like him and the whole surviving the incident and being the hero was supposed to change that. I believe all the events we see is fixing the problem and with how disliked Holt is they can't have him in the position so they brainwash Jeff and Liz who is. It's convoluted but that was my thinking when I played through the whole incident.
Great video! I ultimately agree that the graffiti was placed there without being involved in the plan but I think It's 100% a tiger claws Graffiti. The japanese lettering is pretty conclusive, no? It's also barely anywhere in the badlands and all over night city, including quite a few in japantown
Love your videos and dont regret the sub keep up the great work. Sorry had to skip the phantom liberty vids for now bc i cant afford the dlc and do not want spoilers. Up side i got content ready and waiting for me in the future.
I think Péter Horváth was a red herring used by likely Nightcorp maybe even used as a way to get Lucius to the club to cool off after an assassination attempt. But it is just a wild guess.
I always knew most big corporations in NC had skeletons in their closets, but Night Corp strangely stood out to me as the cleanest. I had a feeling their facade is a mere cover up of their sinister dealing, and this video pretty much reinforces that thought.
I don't know if it would impact the analysis, but in the Time Of the Red sourcebook, Rhynes is listed in the Who's Who as a major figure and activist in Watson. As he also went to, basically, NC University, I think there's solid conjecture to say he was put into the position by NC to begin with. Sadly, power corrupts, so on and so forth... Maybe that was the impetus for the mind control program to begin with. Crazy throeries... this game just grows them like a field of weeds.
It was Judy Alvarez. She has a history of inducing weaponized cyberpsychosis
Or Mr. BlueEyes
I also think with what we do know, Night Corp is the most likely suspect. Of course, Yorinobu is trying to weaken Arasaka and getting rid of Rhyne so that Jefferson Peralez can be Mayor could help him with that, but I don't know, Night Corp still makes more sense and they for sure have the tech and skill to pull it off.
Another great investigation and break down of story points. Love it.
It was Nightcorp. We know because of the very first thing you see in the game proper. "Focus on Winning This Fall."
My favorite theory--with no actual proof backing it up--is that whatever is controlling the Peralezes had Peralez make the hit & he doesn't remember.
If if didn't know better, i would say that the item that controls a person's actions (especially if they're super chromed) would be the Osiris Chip. But that's a 3rd party mission from cyberpunk 2020.
This gonna be random but i have a theory that the net runner b@b is songbird
That's interesting, what lead to you concluding that? Genuinely curious.
@@freddycisneros915 thank you for asking. My reasoning, for this is what we know about b@d is they are a very skilled net runner who doesn’t like to hurt people as seen when we find that one net runners body and there’s a shark talking about how bad warn them about the virus they were going to use and that not being a big fan of b@d when this person died, we know that b@b felt awful
About it.
The gig we do for b@d and I always found it strange that songbird just knows who v so well I knew they were reliable to contact so that helps the idea that she is b@b
I think I remember seeing a video mention this that scabs eventually tried to hunt down b@d to only find a death trap.
I know this sounds rambling and I apologize for that but my point is Songbird being a elite net runner, but also trying to keep her name out of the headlines would use an alias and her caring about some random NetRunner dying on her watch makes sense for her character and using V to install some malware somewhere makes sense because she can’t physically do it herself because of her position in the government with Myers.
I hope this makes sense and I apologize if it’s not a great explanation and poor grammar it’s hard for me. Anyway I just thought this was a cool theory
I always thought rhyne was killed over his deal with arasaka. He was getting outta control, making choices on his own which probably wasnt in the calculations of what ever ai the city government might be using. Richard night could be an engram somewhere. Maybe thats whos controlling the man with blue eyes. Idk. I went over the game as much as i could and just assumed night corp somehow was involved, that each corp would have players on the board, and maybe v is involved some way and had three cover stories, which could explain the life paths. I never seen such a game as this. When it comes to the actual choices its all so blended that even the obvious ones go unnoticed. Ive always said were just editing V's brain dance. All those calls in the end were sent to v somewhere, its never explaned why v never picked up because some endings v could have just talked to everyone after the end. So i assume his neural link doesnt work for some endings. But then why Even add that in. As if v would encounter those with a busted neural link. So did his coprocessor boot up again. Idk but it feels like were editing a bd
From some wondering around the red queens race. It seems that Rhyne was the only one there and had a private room. So if night corp or Holt wanted to do it. It would have been easy to arrange. But the thing I dont get is, why trash it. Unless Rhyne was the only user there. Like the NCPD is already corrupt af. Leaving a money trail to the animals, after having an easy hush hush for the police. Why?
1:46 Richard Night looks like Oscar Isaac as Duke Leto Atreides
It would be pretty funny if all these people had motives and it just turned out to be a random serial killer
I want to preface this by saying I haven't had a chance to play the dlc yet, but my first impression when initially playing the game was it was the AI's and they wanted suspicion on Holt just to help ensure Perez got elected.
The grafitti in the room doesn't mean anything. You're reading too much into it.
Just noticed that in the columbarium, lucius rhyne's spot has a nightcorp logo on it, coincidence?
Where, in the city map, is the university? You'd expect it to be quite large and quite prominent, but I don't recall seeing it. Slightly surprising, given how good CDPR generally are in filling in all the blanks!
To think that Lucius Rhyne grew up on Skibidi Toilet…
Well it's definitely Night corp considering how that one prophet guy who looks like a certain UA-camr basically yapped about all of the creepy yet true things that are happening in night city, the omes who came to pick him up actually came from Night Corp one of the people he managed to convert to his side said he was taken by men with blue eyes. It was Night Corp keeping watch on Jeff, creepier isnthe fact it was Mr. Nights foundation or something in line with education that helped Liz and Jeff obtain most of their educational achievements in the first place which means the brainwashing might've even been deeper and more fucked up than we know; it was Night corp that has been watching and overseeing both Militech and even Arasaka. What's more ominous is how Nightcorp has mostly turned everyone's attentions to Arasaka and Militech seamlessly going unnoticed by a lot of people as anti corps go Night Corp is the one that has been consistently shown to be the most secretive and the most dangerous as well as the one tied to the city itself (Obviously) and the jnderground facilities. What's most terrifying is that Songbird might've been working for Night Corp via Mr. Blue eyes during the assassination on Lucius.
may brain thought that 2017 would be 3 years old today
i really "What?" when i heard 6
man time is too quick for me
i like how i've recently gotten very interested in this game after not playing since version 1.2
11:02 Where is this scene in? I’ve never seen that blue shard before.
I hold it was blue eyes and the AIs from beyond the blackwall that are a aprt of the real plot/"subplot" in the game that killed him to get paralez into the role. They know they can leverage anti holt sentiment to get their guy in and that spiked BD had all those blackwall static hallmarks in it. V's scream is also similar to what happens to blackwall iced people. Holt just wanted to the death at the club to be covered up because he was hoping to ride high off of Rhynes memory and poll numbers since he was his right hand man.
Aren't you the optimist. If Peralez was just the right guy, NCorp wouldn't need to overwrite his psyche. I am fairly certain rogue AIs are involved here. Lilith and Maelstrom, the call at the end of Dream On and the messages in This Corrosion, Mr Blue Eyes and So Mi's moon plan - it's all connected. Maybe NCorp is under AI control after all. But this is much bigger than just a group of philantropic netrunners. Still, great video as always!
Night Corp could have paid or mind controlled a Wraith to sabotage the brain dance or the graffiti could have been a false flag. I've also been wondering for a while if b@d works with or for Night Corp?
Total side track but Rhyne reminds me that in this world where you can get fairly cheap calorie limiters and bionic stomach implants, basically erasing the cause for obesity some people are actually choosing to be obese for... aesthetic reasons.
i strongly think nightcorp was behind because that point where nc corp want to help people not corp and paralez is best for that work easy point is matching
well with the whole game being about arasaka stealing souls, ive always thought it was another prototype soulkiller device, and placed because Rhyne was in the plaza when Saburo's death happened and may have witnessed V's escape, this also would go with the whole garry mission.
As for nightcorp, ever noticed how Peralez, arthur jenkins and mr blue eyes have almost family genetics similarity of facial features
20:30 have you ever investigated what the Japanese calligraphy actually says on the graffiti? ok, heres a mild sidetrack, did some looking into it, and reading left to right makes no sense, but right to left it could be a very stylised, like most graffiti So Mi where the Mi instead of being flat was dragged down .... How long has this graffiti been in the game? because if you think of how So Mi looks once you meet them, its not far wrong
Neeeeed the lighting damage tech build 🙏🏽
I'm going to put this out there, and if true, it could be a whole other can of worms. But the reason why there were two different attempts on his life could be because of a SAC. Stand Alone Complex. That is to say, two different groups sought to end his life each in their own way. One failed, the other didn't.
always thought the like cop enemy of river was the killer
how? why?..
at 3:31 in the top right corner of the billboard: is that a QR code? Has anyone tried scanning this?
If a corpo dies in Night City, does any choom care?
Any of the Cyberpunk graphic novels cover the Nightcorp intrigue ?
Bros cappin out the wahzoo if he thinks NightCorp os 2077 still has NC's best interests in mind....
I always wonder, why does cyberpunk do this with so many quests? Why do they give us some answers but leave the biggest questions unsolved .. and then I see ur videos and I realize why they did it..
take for example the werewolf contract u get early on in the Witcher 3, the first time u play it the twist is so cool and memorable, but on a 2nd play through there’s no intrigue what so ever cuz u already know the twist.. while in cyberpunk, each play through is a chance to gain more insight and clues in to so many of the mysteries within the quests, and it allows for so much thought and theory crafting like this.. which one is better? It’s hard to say, cuz I think the way the W3 does it makes the quests more memorable and conclusive, but cyberpunk, if u don’t play the game multiple times, the quests will be easier to forget because u don’t get that closure to bring it all home
The hmmmm hmmmm reminded me of judy 😮
You got any videos on delimain??
Takemura
damn this 'eally is deep
Maybe it was multiple parties.? Or the Russians.
Wow I never knew all of this information about Rhyne. Great video Sam
So many questions and were the Merc in the middle of it. all of our Vs are wrapped up in this as the mussle who doesnt need mind contol just a paycheck. as most of us want whats best for this city and morer importanly trying to save our selves. careful how far down the ribbit hole you go chooms