I like Shauna and I feel like doing a cEDH upgrade of a precon is a great idea. However, Shauna admits up front this deck isn’t really cEDH viable, so doing an upgrade from a cEDH angle doesn’t really make a lot of sense. I would have loved to see just a normal upgrade path for this deck, and then maybe have Shauna do a special cEDH upgrade episode for the deck she thinks it would be possible for too, especially with maybe a bigger budget. But the way it is now this episode’s recommendations end up sort of worthless.
As I'm watching this episode I don't really understand how it took off, it's seeming gimmicky and weird and a strange push outside what they're good at without enough actual effort to make that successful
That's actually a great idea for an entire episode. Take all of the Precons, and then she does her best to made them cEDH viable. Even if it means transforming it into a Stax deck.
@@monomanamaniac Stax is considered pretty taboo in casual, as it locks out opponents and slows down the game. They work better in cEDH because the format is more combo-focused and wins quickly. I feel like the inclusions she makes will help the deck win, but will definitely make the deck less fun for everyone.
I'm going to add my voice to the crowd too; I love seeing these upgrade guides, as a casual EDH player who mainly plays with my girlfriend. Almost all of our decks are at least based off the precon decks, definitely not cEDH. This is the deck my girlfriend was most excited for and it's a shame that this upgrade guide doesn't focus on the mechanics of the deck like your usual guides, but rather trying to make it viable against cEDH decks. Not much use to us personally unfortunately. I did enjoy hearing from the cEDH player though, but maybe it should be in addition to, rather than in lieu of, the usual precon upgrade guide.
I am a long time patron, and I agree. This episode is missing the target group of viewers that these episodes are meant for. This episode is confusing beginners with cards like Possibility Storm, and a co-host that talks to advanced magic and fast for beginners. And actually revealing this deck is not her favorite from the group, shameful. I would only advice adding drumbellower, toski and swords to plowshares for a beginner.
I really like having Shauna's perspective here, but I think it's almost lost on this video series. It's the really rare precon that you can only swap 10 cards, especially on a budget, and get anywhere near a cEDH level. I think it would fit much better to include her on a set review or even cEDH perspective deck techs for any new commanders that can reach that level.
While I agree with the rest of this comments section in that this episode would have been better as an extra to the upgrade rather than a replacement for it, I did like it as an insight into how to make a cEDH deck without necessarily aiming for a meta deck. Also I agree with Josh at 58:52, the deck definitely seems playable in a more casual environment. Maybe a bit more stax and interaction than you would see with a normal mid power deck, but definitely not oppressive.
Weird choice of deck to bring on the cEDH expert! This seems like the most casual fun deck of the lot. It’s literally a tokens mixed with politics deck. I don’t get why you didn’t have her on for the Maestro deck instead.
I appreciate this episode for looking at upgrades differently. That said, I'd like to see another episode for this deck that discusses upgrade for the more casual player. I am learning and my play group is more in that zone so these Command Zone episodes help a lot.
The conversation between a casual and competitive player is very valuable. If this were a pure CEDH focus, maybe not that interesting (to me), but the banter between Josh and Shauna was thought provoking.
I really like Shauna and what she brings to the show with her perspective, but could we get a rerun of this episode without talking about cEDH? I want a casual upgrade guide for my casual thursday night playgroup
If you look at stax pieces like a puzzle to be solved they can be pretty fun in casual settings too. She could've gone further and done stuff like add a Drannith Magistrate together with the Possibility Storm to hard lock every player out of playing anything at all. But she didn't :P.
I use a lot of the Stax pieces mentioned in this video in a lot of my decks. It’s important to remember that if you’re trying to win with combat damage you are already fighting an uphill battle in most EDH circles. You need to cheat and let the combo players/wheel spinny players know that you mean business. Not to mention, goading is already a form of Stax cause it limits your opponents freedom of choice
This epsiode was a very interesting idea. But I'm going to be one of thosr people to say it, I think you guys should have made this its own separate segment. Don't get me wrong. Seeing a competitive player upgrade a pre-constructed deck is a very interesting idea. But I feel bad for anyone who is looking forward to a standard budget upgrade guide. Maybe introduce a new segment to the channel where you have her upgrade bad precons to competitive standards. And this is coming from a player who has played on both competitive and Casual Commander. So don't get me wrong the idea is fun but maybe not something to replace your usual upgrade guide. At least I think you guys should have included something in the thumbnail or title. But Ben I'm pretty sure you guys know no one would watch it because most your audience is not interested in cedh
At 48:35 you show Crop Rotation as an example of how Yasharn would stop that spell from being cast, but Yasharn only stops players from sacrificing nonland permanents not lands, so Crop Rotation would work normally here
As a CEDH player that plays all kinds of edh styles I don’t really understand the point of this video. I have zero problem with this channel doing cEDH content. I would love to see an extra turns with cEDH decks. The cEDH community is incredibly welcoming, there is a very welcoming proxy all you want mentality amongst everyone I know. I highly encourage anyone that wants to dip into cEDH to find some friends and make some bad proxies. With all that being said, this video is very pointless. CEDH is the very highest end of the spectrum of commander. This video both accomplishes frustrating the casual community that didn’t get what they wanted in seeing a precon deck get upgrades to be a little more viable in casual tables while also just in no way representing what cEDH is. A Naya deck with a commander that neither provides mana or card draw from the command zone, and simply adds a few Stax pieces would be likely turn off anyone from ever playing cEDH if they brought this deck to a cEDH pod. These additions also don’t meaningfully make the deck strategy better for a casual table that likely does not care about cards like archon of emeria style cards.
The community being welcoming is hard to believe when there is one guy in the comments calling people that are not fans of seeing cEDH content here stuff like "average casual player".
I would not take one person in a comment section on a single UA-cam video as a representation of the entire cEDH community. I have played edh for over a decade and played cEDH for just as long. I am a moderator and deck creator over on moxfield, I have built a large community of cEDH players over at my local LGS that has had many sanctioned and unsanctioned tournaments. My lifetime of experience playing magic the gathering is the further back in time you go with an expanded card pool the more likely you are to find a very welcoming proxy friendly environment that just wants to play the variants of magic they love.
I 100% agree with all of what is said here. Either go all in or don't at all. You can't go all in with a lackluster commander. Cedh is about efficiency and going all out and you need to have a commander that does that. Even stax, which tends to slow down the game still needs a commander that has utility. All this video did is say, "hey we run stax in cedh". That could be a huge turnoff to a large amount of people.
In the honorable mentions she brought up doubling season which is to me kind of a red flag, it makes me wonder what sort of cEDH games she is playing because I have never seen doubling season in a cEDH deck. To me a comparably priced green card that is a staple in green shells that are looking to play creature based disruption would be food chain. Utopia sprawl with 9 forests and no fetchlands? Llanowar elves is a cEDH staple and costs less and would likely always have a turn one play whereas utopia sprawl could easily be stuck in hand. This deck guide just missed the mark in so many ways.
Love seeing y'all chat about cEDH, this was awesome! Definitely want to see more of Shauna! I thought these were some really smart budget choices that made some really meaningful additions to setting up the basis of an interesting cEDH deck!
Love Shauna and her perspective on things, but for a budget upgrade I would have loved it if she did an upgrade on a deck that's a bit more viable for cEDH, or even just higher power level. In other words, should have let her do the Anhelo deck :P
I get where you're coming from. But it's also kinda interesting to see what she does with the challenge of turning the least likely cEDH precon into something more cEDH worthy. I feel like something like Anhelo or the likes would have been a far to easy thing to do for her. Tuning that token strategy up in this way was super interesting to see.
I think that may have been why they gave her that deck in particular anhelo probably would have been semi competitive and blew the other decks out of the water
Shauna's vibe is AWESOME and the twist she introduces to this episode is great. There's going to be a lot of these deck upgrades, so a high-power lens is refreshing.
Great episode! I don't play cEDH so it was nice to hear the arguments of stuff and I got alot wiser. Only cEDH I get is from watching playing with power. The word of the day is "totally" :D
33:04 that was my exact question when JLK described what Shauna was going to do here. seems pretty much impossible to take a precon to cEDH with so little changes, bringing it up to a 6-7 range is about all you can do with 10 cards and $30.
Shauna might be my favorite guest host. I always enjoy a different perspective but since Shauna focuses on cedh it was outside my normal box and I loved that. You guys had a great discussion about things I don’t think normally come up and nothing here was super cedh specific. Great episode and would love to see more like this.
Is there going to be an episode where players from command zone play a game with four of the decks? I have seen that these usually happen around this time for other sets, so I was wondering because those are my my favorite episodes!
Cards to Cut: Selvala, Explorer Returned Zurzoth, Chaos Rider Agitator Ant Orzhov Advokist Life of the Party Bloodthirsty Blade Master of Ceremonies Sylvan Offering Sandwurm Convergence Phabine, Boss’s Confidant Cards to Add:
Drumbellower Utopia Sprawl (Wild Growth is alternative) Toski, Bearer of Secrets Collector Ouphe Archon of Emeria Yasharn, Implacable Earth Aven Mindcensor Possibility Storm Tibalt’s Trickery Swords to Plowshares
I'm really confused as to why he thinks Eiganjo is so bad... "You'll never be holding up that much mana" - You mean 1-3 mana? NO ONE is gonna be holding up 1-3 mana? That seems a little hyperbolic. (Also Sokenzan is 4 mana, which makes his statement kind of confusing to me) I get that it only kills attacking or blocking creatures, but that can still be really relevant, like if an opponent is blocking with a creature that seems like an easy chump block at first. And isn't the average toughness of creatures like 3 anyway? It seems like it will deal with a decent number of threats, especially when you tack on whatever damage your creature will also do. I'm not saying it's amazing or still not the worst, but unless you're running a dedicated token deck, I can't see very many reasons that you'd want to run Sokenzan and not the potential removal on a land. (Again, to be fair, Sokenzan does the thing regardless and Eiganjo has conditions, but it's still correct to play both since you're in the colors and it's only replacing a plains
I was really looking forward to seeing the discussion and upgrades for the deck and am now disappointed that that discussion is aimed towards a playstyle (CEDH) that no one I know plays.
A lot of the things they said are still valid. Hearing other opinions and looking into other playstyiles from time to time can help you as a palyer even if you don't play cEDH yourself.
Personally, i'm going to keep Selvala in the deck because i feel like it adds the option for politics and to interect more with not just opponents, but temporary allies... it seems with that there can be interesting politics / gameplay, which is one of the main reasons i am getting / playing this deck, as my other commander decks dont really have the same vibes. I think this deck in particular needs to be treated as a casual commander deck with more emphasis on the fun and politics aspect of it, rather than turning it into the most competitive deck you can.
She made a deck close to where my play group plays. We aim to win on turn 4, 5, and 6. Usually with a decks like that, we have either been slowed down to the point where the game becomes a challenge or it becomes chaotic with all 4 players always being one step from winning. Both are fun but this weird gap between casual and Cedh is mind set, what is the goal. You can blend those two things easily.
I’m not a cedh player but really enjoyed this upgrade video. One of the best you’ve ever done. Fresh takes for us casual players. I plan on buying this pre-con and following many of Shauna’s suggestions. Please have her on more episodes and Extra Turns as well, she’s awesome.
yooo why yall hating on my man for giving his piece all he saying is he just kinda sad they turned it into a unfun deck and he was really hoping for a affordable, yet fun deck upgrade and what if he doesnt have alot of time in the world like some people and cant research cards for himself and i agree with him this is suppose to be a fun little upgrade that seems to be what this whole channel is about....fun commander, i dont see them winning on turn 4 with their decks on game knights (even though i wouldnt be surprised if their decks could ) but no they have hour+ long games for FUN and to show people yo this set pretty cool, not no turn 4 insta win ad nauseam stuff.
@@juts89 I mean I really like these videos because they help me discover new cards, I'm pretty new to magic in general- was just hoping that I would discover some cool token-related or go wide strategy cards I didn't know about
@@titanium0002 Yeah it just kills me the "well I mean this card isn't going to do anything to forward our deck- it's just going to prevent other people from playing their's" I think is just an un-fun way to play. Not yucking anyones yum, but I think 100% of commander players go into a game night wanting to...well...play their deck.
Like that video a lot. Shauna brings good ideas to the table. I'd like to see more of these discussions. Not to play more cEDH like, but rather to get the arguments and consider them when building my next deck.
I was so excited for this episode. And I’m still happy to see it. But cEDH doesn’t really excite me, so I can’t end up doing much with the advice from this video. I don’t think many of the precons were made with cEDH in mind. But I love and appreciate the idea of the content. Just wanted to upgrade my Cabaretti deck a bit to make it fun to play.
Like that you guys are trying new angles for these upgrade videos! I'll bet doing so many of these deck-techs you guys have a lot of pressure to innovate or refresh your formats. While people in the comments seem to be against this type of video I really appreciate the change. Keep it up!
as a casual player who will most likely never see the draw step of a cEDH game, i LOVED hearing a cEDH players thoughts on the deck and it's upgrades. she really showed it off in a light i don't often see and it definitely makes me think about my own decks in a new way. BIG liked this video, great content as always from the command zone crew :)
It’s great to get input from the cEDH perspective. Hope we get more of that here in this channel. Let me clarify. I’m not advocating for playing cEDH in this channel. I’m just talking about the mindset. I find the mindset very interesting and useful for deckbuilding.
This deck feels like the most straightforward one to me, so having a twist to the deck upgrade makes sense to me. Still, I do remember being a bit annoyed by the Edgar video sticking out from the rest of its wave, so I can understand why people might not like it. Also huge shout-outs to Demon Slayer! As the person who's translating it into Russian, I have a lot of love for it in my heart and nothing brings me more joy than seeing people sing praises to it (even though I didn't really make it, objectively speaking).
Shauna is great. Her personality and perspective brings a lot to the show. I feel like I got a better understanding of the deck and mechanics than I normally do thanks to her. Honestly I see every change she made being super helpful if you’re going to be playing against mid/high level casual decks with a better budget than you.
I really enjoyed Shauna on this Command Zone Podcast. It was refreshing seeing a different perspective in upgrades. Her personality was great for the podcast. I would love to see her do more shows for the Command Zone. Keep up the amazing work!! I’m excited to see her in a commander game also.
This video is amazing! As a player, my group straddles that line between EDH & CEDH. We avoid decks that are instant combo win at turn 4, but we also optimize our decks to the highest degree and are willing to deal with any strategy. This video perfectly captures ways to make competitive and interactive decks at a budget.
So this video helped me decide what I wanted as my 4th deck. I'm a yugioh player and outside of precons for commander, I don't build any magic decks. I generally don't even buy packs or upgrade the decks much because a 100 cards is so much for me to process and figure out and I just can't get my head around the ratios so I accepted a more casual precon focused play and enjoy commander so much. Favorite commander channel right here and what got me to play. Currently I am building though 4 decks. I really love brawl as the 60 card lower baseline is so much more appealing to me and the restriction it puts on deck building choice is very good. I don't like that brawl restricts to only standard legal but I'm choosing to ignore that for these 4 decks as I'm building something special. I'm trying to build 4 fun and interactive brawl decks without the standard restriction, each one designed with playing against the others in mind. Looking to have 4 great decks that I can pull out with friends and everyone can get a different experience than usual. Rn the other 3 are Abbadon, Magus Calgar, and Chulane (using the Perri precon with him). This will be the 4th deck as I really love this commander and the strategy. I think it will make a great 4th to my pod and really be a game shaker along side the other 3
I love the comparison between casual and competitive points on this deck! I'd love to see more of that. It strikes a special balance that gives more context to what players expect from casual/non-competitive (a VERY general and ill-defined concept) versus what the strongest cards are (something not all players necessarily want, but many do, and it gives a clear parameter).
Just a quick note that a person can play Crop Rotation on the board with Yasharn out. Yasharn specifically mentions nonland permanents when it comes to sacrifice
I know taking this deck in a cEDH direction was a strange choice, but I actually really liked it. We have already seen other members of the team go in directions the deck weren't honed for, and this was a similar exercise. However, what sets it apart is how deeply and thoroughly the pros and cons of taking it in this direction were discussed. It made me actually want to try this deck in a competitive environment to gain a better understanding of the different play style. Thank you for the episode. It grew on me the longer I thought about.
This was a very helpful video, just bought into this Precon Commander deck and the insight given has really helped. Not only that but you both really went in depth on why or why not certain cards would not work. Thank you for this and amazing work!
Probably worth discussing with possibility storm is that it is a soft lock with archon. Maybe I missed it but players get one spell, because it forces the player to choose to cast the spell it stops opponents from casting spells from their hand. So it comes down to commanders, on board presence, or a boseiju effect in order to break it and begin playing again.
I think this is an awesome way to approach an episode! We get casual upgrades all the time, we'll be getting 3 more after this for this set, but we rarely get to see OTHER ways to approach upgrades from y'all. I'll also say while it is a Cedh approach, this will still be a fairly casual deck and people should be a bit more open to stax pieces and such
I'm kind of thinking that if the Command Zone folks would've left the term "CEDH" out of this upgrade conversation, and made the exact same video without that term, that this vid would be more well received. Let's be real, the card substitution selections, and the discussion and reasoning behind them were fantastic! Shauna is an incredible guest to have on the show, and is very well spoken, sensible, and knowledgeable. Here's hoping that too many people don't let that CEDH term cloud their appreciation of the awesome discourse here and the lessons and strategy that can be learned from it.
Exactly this. Trying to push cedh in this episode made no sense. It upset casual players who don't want to hear competitive and it annoyed the cedh players who were confused by the selections and explanations and the overall unviable deck. Anyone interested in cedh bringing this to a table is going to be sad and further confused. Having doubling season on an honorable mentions list for a cedh deck is bizarre
I really love the fact that you shot for cedh content which is cool. Although it does feel weird and a little left field to try to make this specific list anywhere near cedh, however the content and discussion is always fun. Thank you :)
While I do appreciate the mindset that Shauna brought to this episode and I feel that perhaps their could have been another episode for the players who don't have interest in cEDH. It seems the majority of the comments are in that same mindset. Now with that being said it was nice to have a different perspective than we are used to on these types of episodes, perhaps Shauna could start a segment for cEDH to also bring that content to the table, I believe there are a lot of viewers who would enjoy it. Again I am not at all trying to say this was a bad episode, because it wasn't, but I think a separation of casual vs cEDH content would be fantastic and I appreciate the effort that went into this content.
I think cross exposure and discourse is VERY healthy for the community! Stoked they are bringing cEDH into videos in a positive way, and I hope it continues!
I was surprised to see so many naysayers in the comments. I loved hearing from Shauna and the more cedh mindset. They said in the beginning, you're probably not going to take this to a cedh tournament and win. In a couple pods I play in, we try to make our decks as competitive as possible within the cards we have or for a budget. I can understand people wanting a casual upgrade guide to the precons so maybe not replace those, but I'd love to see more content with a competitive mindset on The Command Zone!
@55:59 Possibility storm actually won me a cEDH game at a tournament recently. The game was at a bit of a standstill, it was around turn 7-8 or so and no one really had creatures out (lots of removal happened that game). There was basically just a magus of the moon in play (which is the biggest reason why no one could do anything), and that same player also had a niv mizzet parun in play. I was playing kinnan. I untapped and slammed a phantasmal image. I was hoping for it to spin into one of the crazy creatures I play like tidespout tyrant/hullbreaker horror, or nyxbloom ancient, etc. I spun into a gilded drake. This happened to be pretty much exactly what I needed. I took the niv mizzet parun with it, then cast a finale of devastation with X as 0, hoping to hit a specific sorcery in my deck. I only play 5 sorceries in the list, and one of them was in my GY, and another was the finale. If i hit a transmute artifact I could go for a basalt monolith and try to win the game. Niv mizzet triggered and I drew a card, then pinged the magus of the moon with the niv trigger. I flipped off of possibility storm and hit the transmute artifact. I sacked a random artifact I had and got the basalt. This also got me another niv trigger which let me kill the magus of the moon. This was important since My outlet for this infinite colorless mana was on board - a treasure vault. I used the vault to make infinite treasures and then kinnan easily won from there. In hindsight, the flip into that gilded drake was pretty much the only thing that could've won me the game there. I needed that niv mizzet to kill the magus of the moon so that I could use my 7-8 nonbasic lands that I had sitting on my field. The card is definitely good, but sometimes it helps an opponent get there.
I went the route of creatures that trigger when tapped. Dwarves, Merfolk, Emmarra, creatures with Inspired. Goad creatures and get things for tapping your stuff.
"The resident cEDH player picks the naya tokens deck" is a bet that I would have lost 9 times out of 10. And we need Shauna and more of the crew in Extra Turns Edit: There's no way that Sokenzan is better than new Eiganjo
Any green token, +1/+1 counter deck i would build Doubling Season is a staple piece of the deck, along with Idyllic Tutor if running any combo of G/W and Wheel of Sun and Moon
I've actually managed to win against 3 cEDH decks with an Archelos deck. They focused so much on each other that I was able to fly under the radar and slow them down enough to pull off a win. It was actually pretty fun and made me really think of each play before I did anything.
I love when content creators do a reality check on super expensive cards. I get that they’re in high demand and are powerful, but for those of us on a budget, it can be frustrating unless we proxy (which I would do for doubling season). Then here’s the thing about sword of feast and famine, doubling season, etc. Everyone sees it hit the board. They will try to remove it. If they can’t, you are suddenly a huge threat, and the game swings out of your favor because everyone wants to beat you instead, so you either need to win on the spot or just pray. So if your deck isn’t ready to handle that kind of attention from the board, it’s a bad card. So it’s not just 80 dollars for doubling season, it’s more for the good counter spells, or teferi’s protection, or heroic intervention. Good for you for having these pieces already, but there’s a case that some non-cEDH decks are not casual.
As an avid cEDH player I like and agree with these upgrades. The one I am a bit iffy on though is utopia sprawl. If I only had ten slots to choose from I'd probably include eidolon of rhetoric, another rule of law creature, or a dork if I wanted ramp (dorks have additional utility as being tappable from your commander). BOP if it fit in the budget, or just llanowar elves or avacyn's pilgrim otherwise. Drannith magistrate is also a fantastic white stax creature, IMO the best one in the game, and it's about the same price as utopia sprawl. I just think that ramp isn't as important unless you have enough good threats or stax pieces to ramp into first. A bonus that you have a second rule of law to combo with possibility storm to lock players out of the game. Note: All of these cards are in the Brute force cEDH decklist listed.
First of all, what a brave statement Shauna made about the old art lol. I gotta say, I don't HATE old art (hate is a strong word) but I definitely dislike a lot of it, and 9 times out of 10 I'm gonma.pick a newer art if its available. With that said it seems like the Jury is in and people aren't feeling the cedh upgrade here. Gotta say I agree to an extent. I don't mind seeing some cedh uogrades here and there through you guys, but this doesn't seem like the proper outlet to do ir. While I think some of the comments are a little sensitive and acting like they can't buy/build/play the deck without your budget uogrades, I definitely think this isn't the proper outlet to tackle a cedh deck. This is my feedback though and doesn't change how much I appreciate your guys content as a whole and the work you put in. I love you.guys and commend you for trying something a little different and don't let any of the negative feedback deter you from branching out again in other areas. P.S. please please please tell me Ashlin is doing one of the deck upgrades 😁😁😁 (the Jund one I hope 🙏)
I like the cedh upgrade it gives decks a new spin. It's not going to be cedh level but if you want to play at a higher level, then this is really cool. Keep it up, I hope you guys do one of these for each set
I run possibility storm in my Prosper deck. Since Possibility Storm only triggers if you cast from hand, I can still play my deck fine. The only danger to look out for is anything that limits you to sorcery speed (mostly Teferi), then nobody can cast spells except the person who has that card. And there are a lot of spells that can accidently just stop the game. That said, It is chaos and everybody loves it. I have players want me to start the game with it in play just to watch things go crazy.
In a CDH game, everything goes. If your opponentns get mad at you, your opponents need to rethink their lifes. -Shauna Honestly best quote around 54:12
Budget additions are a fun exercise. For this deck, I’d want to take out: Boss’s Chauffeur Sizzling Soloist Bloodthirsty Blade False Floor Intangible Virtue Prosperous Partnership Outpost Siege Commander’s Sphere Forest Cabaretti Courtyard I’m taking out what I feel are lower impact or ones that aren’t great fits for this deck in particular. I’d wanna add in: Shaman of Forgotten Ways God-Eternal Oketra Totski Bearer of Secrets Bow of Nylea Druids’ Repository Kodama’s Reach Llanowar Elves Avacyn’s Pilgrim Ornithopter of Paradise I see the deck going wide as a utility to all sorts of shenanigans. Shaman of Forgotten Ways acts as good 3 mana ramp and as a potential win con for the deck. Oketra benefits from casted creature spells and is hard to remove. Bow of Nylea makes attacking tokens harder to block and Toski rewards us for successful attacks. Another powerful payoff for a wide board is Druids’ Repository which ramps and stockpiles for a bigger payoff later.
I decided to make this cEDH deck a vehicle goading deck where I will be replacing most cards. I'm not sure if a RGW deck will work as vehicle but I love her asthetic so much I can't help it. Kitt Kanto limousine queen and friends. I'm literally going to rebuild this deck as a limo service. I already have staff and utilities planned!
I would like to note that the reason Kazuul shot up in price was because of Isshin decks, since it triggers twice off the commander; Suprise Suprise, happy for the Path to Exile reprint though.
I think Josh is underestimating False Floor a little. 4 mana is a bit steep for initial cost but having all creatures enter tapped is a powerful effect if you built your deck to not be affected by it, and its kind of a one sided board wipe when you activate it. You can even activate it after declaring attackers but before blockers are declared to have an unblockable swing. Not saying it's going to be a staple but I think it'll be very strong in some decks.
Inalla was a precon where you could kinda do a "budget upgrade" where you invest into reanimation cards, so you can reanimate [[wanderwine prophets]] with two extra mana up and win the game.
Would Manglehorn be a consideration for this deck? Weaker version of Collector Ouphe, but still offers a way to slow down your artifact heavy opponents, and possibly snipe an early problem artifact.
Voted up due to the uniqueness of the review. Love hearing a different view point. Hard disagree about Sevala, as her ability is a mana ability it is hard to interact with and has 2 card combos that win.
I would love to see more cEDH centered content on this channel and I loved the guest speaker. But I want the stats, analysis, and card swaps to be centered around where I’m actually going to be playing a precon deck. Nobody’s gonna buy a precon and try to hang with a cEDH pod, or at least they won’t make that mistake twice lol. I’d love to see what y’all would come up with if it was just a full deck-tech with this as the commander. No limitations.
I like Shauna and I feel like doing a cEDH upgrade of a precon is a great idea. However, Shauna admits up front this deck isn’t really cEDH viable, so doing an upgrade from a cEDH angle doesn’t really make a lot of sense. I would have loved to see just a normal upgrade path for this deck, and then maybe have Shauna do a special cEDH upgrade episode for the deck she thinks it would be possible for too, especially with maybe a bigger budget. But the way it is now this episode’s recommendations end up sort of worthless.
Yeah this seems like the way to go in the future. Like seeing her perspective, but maybe not the right deck for that perspective.
As I'm watching this episode I don't really understand how it took off, it's seeming gimmicky and weird and a strange push outside what they're good at without enough actual effort to make that successful
That's actually a great idea for an entire episode. Take all of the Precons, and then she does her best to made them cEDH viable. Even if it means transforming it into a Stax deck.
Honestly, all of her recommendations are solid, they help the deck in a notable way and are not cedh exclusive in the slightest.
@@monomanamaniac Stax is considered pretty taboo in casual, as it locks out opponents and slows down the game. They work better in cEDH because the format is more combo-focused and wins quickly. I feel like the inclusions she makes will help the deck win, but will definitely make the deck less fun for everyone.
I'm going to add my voice to the crowd too;
I love seeing these upgrade guides, as a casual EDH player who mainly plays with my girlfriend. Almost all of our decks are at least based off the precon decks, definitely not cEDH.
This is the deck my girlfriend was most excited for and it's a shame that this upgrade guide doesn't focus on the mechanics of the deck like your usual guides, but rather trying to make it viable against cEDH decks.
Not much use to us personally unfortunately.
I did enjoy hearing from the cEDH player though, but maybe it should be in addition to, rather than in lieu of, the usual precon upgrade guide.
agreed i was rather disappointed to see this but still intrigued
I am a long time patron, and I agree. This episode is missing the target group of viewers that these episodes are meant for. This episode is confusing beginners with cards like Possibility Storm, and a co-host that talks to advanced magic and fast for beginners. And actually revealing this deck is not her favorite from the group, shameful.
I would only advice adding drumbellower, toski and swords to plowshares for a beginner.
I really like having Shauna's perspective here, but I think it's almost lost on this video series. It's the really rare precon that you can only swap 10 cards, especially on a budget, and get anywhere near a cEDH level. I think it would fit much better to include her on a set review or even cEDH perspective deck techs for any new commanders that can reach that level.
While I agree with the rest of this comments section in that this episode would have been better as an extra to the upgrade rather than a replacement for it, I did like it as an insight into how to make a cEDH deck without necessarily aiming for a meta deck.
Also I agree with Josh at 58:52, the deck definitely seems playable in a more casual environment. Maybe a bit more stax and interaction than you would see with a normal mid power deck, but definitely not oppressive.
Weird choice of deck to bring on the cEDH expert! This seems like the most casual fun deck of the lot. It’s literally a tokens mixed with politics deck.
I don’t get why you didn’t have her on for the Maestro deck instead.
In the video they explained that they decided among themselves who was going to get what deck, and the Maestro deck was already taken.
I appreciate this episode for looking at upgrades differently. That said, I'd like to see another episode for this deck that discusses upgrade for the more casual player. I am learning and my play group is more in that zone so these Command Zone episodes help a lot.
The conversation between a casual and competitive player is very valuable. If this were a pure CEDH focus, maybe not that interesting (to me), but the banter between Josh and Shauna was thought provoking.
I really like Shauna and what she brings to the show with her perspective, but could we get a rerun of this episode without talking about cEDH? I want a casual upgrade guide for my casual thursday night playgroup
Honestly tho same
I doubt these upgrades would make this deck unplayable fir your Thursday night edh
If you look at stax pieces like a puzzle to be solved they can be pretty fun in casual settings too. She could've gone further and done stuff like add a Drannith Magistrate together with the Possibility Storm to hard lock every player out of playing anything at all. But she didn't :P.
I use a lot of the Stax pieces mentioned in this video in a lot of my decks. It’s important to remember that if you’re trying to win with combat damage you are already fighting an uphill battle in most EDH circles. You need to cheat and let the combo players/wheel spinny players know that you mean business.
Not to mention, goading is already a form of Stax cause it limits your opponents freedom of choice
This epsiode was a very interesting idea. But I'm going to be one of thosr people to say it, I think you guys should have made this its own separate segment.
Don't get me wrong. Seeing a competitive player upgrade a pre-constructed deck is a very interesting idea. But I feel bad for anyone who is looking forward to a standard budget upgrade guide.
Maybe introduce a new segment to the channel where you have her upgrade bad precons to competitive standards.
And this is coming from a player who has played on both competitive and Casual Commander. So don't get me wrong the idea is fun but maybe not something to replace your usual upgrade guide. At least I think you guys should have included something in the thumbnail or title.
But Ben I'm pretty sure you guys know no one would watch it because most your audience is not interested in cedh
i am a budget casual player and was really looking forward to the upgraded precons and although this idea is cool its not for me
At 48:35 you show Crop Rotation as an example of how Yasharn would stop that spell from being cast, but Yasharn only stops players from sacrificing nonland permanents not lands, so Crop Rotation would work normally here
As a CEDH player that plays all kinds of edh styles I don’t really understand the point of this video. I have zero problem with this channel doing cEDH content. I would love to see an extra turns with cEDH decks. The cEDH community is incredibly welcoming, there is a very welcoming proxy all you want mentality amongst everyone I know. I highly encourage anyone that wants to dip into cEDH to find some friends and make some bad proxies. With all that being said, this video is very pointless. CEDH is the very highest end of the spectrum of commander. This video both accomplishes frustrating the casual community that didn’t get what they wanted in seeing a precon deck get upgrades to be a little more viable in casual tables while also just in no way representing what cEDH is. A Naya deck with a commander that neither provides mana or card draw from the command zone, and simply adds a few Stax pieces would be likely turn off anyone from ever playing cEDH if they brought this deck to a cEDH pod. These additions also don’t meaningfully make the deck strategy better for a casual table that likely does not care about cards like archon of emeria style cards.
The community being welcoming is hard to believe when there is one guy in the comments calling people that are not fans of seeing cEDH content here stuff like "average casual player".
I would not take one person in a comment section on a single UA-cam video as a representation of the entire cEDH community. I have played edh for over a decade and played cEDH for just as long. I am a moderator and deck creator over on moxfield, I have built a large community of cEDH players over at my local LGS that has had many sanctioned and unsanctioned tournaments. My lifetime of experience playing magic the gathering is the further back in time you go with an expanded card pool the more likely you are to find a very welcoming proxy friendly environment that just wants to play the variants of magic they love.
@@faerie7dragon I don't understand what's negative about saying average casual player is that not what most people are?
I 100% agree with all of what is said here. Either go all in or don't at all. You can't go all in with a lackluster commander. Cedh is about efficiency and going all out and you need to have a commander that does that. Even stax, which tends to slow down the game still needs a commander that has utility. All this video did is say, "hey we run stax in cedh". That could be a huge turnoff to a large amount of people.
In the honorable mentions she brought up doubling season which is to me kind of a red flag, it makes me wonder what sort of cEDH games she is playing because I have never seen doubling season in a cEDH deck. To me a comparably priced green card that is a staple in green shells that are looking to play creature based disruption would be food chain. Utopia sprawl with 9 forests and no fetchlands? Llanowar elves is a cEDH staple and costs less and would likely always have a turn one play whereas utopia sprawl could easily be stuck in hand. This deck guide just missed the mark in so many ways.
Love seeing y'all chat about cEDH, this was awesome! Definitely want to see more of Shauna! I thought these were some really smart budget choices that made some really meaningful additions to setting up the basis of an interesting cEDH deck!
Love Shauna and her perspective on things, but for a budget upgrade I would have loved it if she did an upgrade on a deck that's a bit more viable for cEDH, or even just higher power level. In other words, should have let her do the Anhelo deck :P
I get where you're coming from. But it's also kinda interesting to see what she does with the challenge of turning the least likely cEDH precon into something more cEDH worthy. I feel like something like Anhelo or the likes would have been a far to easy thing to do for her. Tuning that token strategy up in this way was super interesting to see.
I think that may have been why they gave her that deck in particular anhelo probably would have been semi competitive and blew the other decks out of the water
I love hearing Shauna’s CEDH perspective and how the strategy differs from casual. Please have her on more episodes!
Shauna's vibe is AWESOME and the twist she introduces to this episode is great. There's going to be a lot of these deck upgrades, so a high-power lens is refreshing.
Totally agree!! I would love to see more Shauna in vids like this and some high power edh games too.
cEDH player: How can I can turn this into a stax deck?
Me: That cat lady is really pretty, I should add more pretty cats!
Cat deck inbound
Literally Cedh players every time they see a commander with white in its identity
@@Renegadetothe64th hey, blue also has some stax.
Great episode! I don't play cEDH so it was nice to hear the arguments of stuff and I got alot wiser. Only cEDH I get is from watching playing with power. The word of the day is "totally" :D
33:04 that was my exact question when JLK described what Shauna was going to do here. seems pretty much impossible to take a precon to cEDH with so little changes, bringing it up to a 6-7 range is about all you can do with 10 cards and $30.
let's make the cedh girl upgrade the goad deck... wait, what?
Forcing a cEDH player into a deck without Blue or Black... Amusing.
@@faerie7dragon play sultai bro or it’s not even worth it bro
Or green
@@jamesgratz4771 I get the bit that you are doing. But it is dull and unfunny
@@mikemcglasson1286 I don’t care lmao
Shauna might be my favorite guest host. I always enjoy a different perspective but since Shauna focuses on cedh it was outside my normal box and I loved that. You guys had a great discussion about things I don’t think normally come up and nothing here was super cedh specific. Great episode and would love to see more like this.
Is there going to be an episode where players from command zone play a game with four of the decks? I have seen that these usually happen around this time for other sets, so I was wondering because those are my my favorite episodes!
Usually they drop the episode a week before the official release of the set so it may be coming out soon!
@@thejizzanater6924 Thanks!
if there are no upgrade guides on other decks maybe commanders quarters have done the other decks.
Cards to Cut:
Selvala, Explorer Returned
Zurzoth, Chaos Rider
Agitator Ant
Orzhov Advokist
Life of the Party
Bloodthirsty Blade
Master of Ceremonies
Sylvan Offering
Sandwurm Convergence
Phabine, Boss’s Confidant
Cards to Add:
Drumbellower
Utopia Sprawl (Wild Growth is alternative)
Toski, Bearer of Secrets
Collector Ouphe
Archon of Emeria
Yasharn, Implacable Earth
Aven Mindcensor
Possibility Storm
Tibalt’s Trickery
Swords to Plowshares
They discussed False Floor in the end. I agree with the removal but that makes it 11.
Love this episode. I play CEDH and casual so I really enjoyed hearing both perspectives. I enjoy both formats.
I really like Shauna's perspective on the cards! I hope we get to see her more on the podcast in the future
loved getting the cedh perspective on this, just to hear how various cards are valued coming from a different frame of mind
I'm really confused as to why he thinks Eiganjo is so bad...
"You'll never be holding up that much mana" - You mean 1-3 mana? NO ONE is gonna be holding up 1-3 mana? That seems a little hyperbolic. (Also Sokenzan is 4 mana, which makes his statement kind of confusing to me)
I get that it only kills attacking or blocking creatures, but that can still be really relevant, like if an opponent is blocking with a creature that seems like an easy chump block at first.
And isn't the average toughness of creatures like 3 anyway? It seems like it will deal with a decent number of threats, especially when you tack on whatever damage your creature will also do. I'm not saying it's amazing or still not the worst, but unless you're running a dedicated token deck, I can't see very many reasons that you'd want to run Sokenzan and not the potential removal on a land. (Again, to be fair, Sokenzan does the thing regardless and Eiganjo has conditions, but it's still correct to play both since you're in the colors and it's only replacing a plains
I was really looking forward to seeing the discussion and upgrades for the deck and am now disappointed that that discussion is aimed towards a playstyle (CEDH) that no one I know plays.
A lot of the things they said are still valid. Hearing other opinions and looking into other playstyiles from time to time can help you as a palyer even if you don't play cEDH yourself.
Personally, i'm going to keep Selvala in the deck because i feel like it adds the option for politics and to interect more with not just opponents, but temporary allies... it seems with that there can be interesting politics / gameplay, which is one of the main reasons i am getting / playing this deck, as my other commander decks dont really have the same vibes. I think this deck in particular needs to be treated as a casual commander deck with more emphasis on the fun and politics aspect of it, rather than turning it into the most competitive deck you can.
She made a deck close to where my play group plays. We aim to win on turn 4, 5, and 6. Usually with a decks like that, we have either been slowed down to the point where the game becomes a challenge or it becomes chaotic with all 4 players always being one step from winning. Both are fun but this weird gap between casual and Cedh is mind set, what is the goal. You can blend those two things easily.
I’m not a cedh player but really enjoyed this upgrade video. One of the best you’ve ever done. Fresh takes for us casual players. I plan on buying this pre-con and following many of Shauna’s suggestions. Please have her on more episodes and Extra Turns as well, she’s awesome.
I wonder if she'd enjoy it though, she seems really passionate about cEDH and I'd just wonder how much fun she'd have with a more casual angle
Damn…this is the precon I was most looking forward to teching and I have absolutely no interest in stax and cedh…bit of a let down
Jund is key
Now you get to build it yourself instead of copying their cheap $30 upgrade then.
yooo why yall hating on my man for giving his piece all he saying is he just kinda sad they turned it into a unfun deck and he was really hoping for a affordable, yet fun deck upgrade and what if he doesnt have alot of time in the world like some people and cant research cards for himself and i agree with him this is suppose to be a fun little upgrade that seems to be what this whole channel is about....fun commander, i dont see them winning on turn 4 with their decks on game knights (even though i wouldnt be surprised if their decks could ) but no they have hour+ long games for FUN and to show people yo this set pretty cool, not no turn 4 insta win ad nauseam stuff.
@@juts89 I mean I really like these videos because they help me discover new cards, I'm pretty new to magic in general- was just hoping that I would discover some cool token-related or go wide strategy cards I didn't know about
@@titanium0002 Yeah it just kills me the "well I mean this card isn't going to do anything to forward our deck- it's just going to prevent other people from playing their's" I think is just an un-fun way to play. Not yucking anyones yum, but I think 100% of commander players go into a game night wanting to...well...play their deck.
Like that video a lot. Shauna brings good ideas to the table. I'd like to see more of these discussions. Not to play more cEDH like, but rather to get the arguments and consider them when building my next deck.
I was so excited for this episode. And I’m still happy to see it. But cEDH doesn’t really excite me, so I can’t end up doing much with the advice from this video. I don’t think many of the precons were made with cEDH in mind. But I love and appreciate the idea of the content. Just wanted to upgrade my Cabaretti deck a bit to make it fun to play.
Like that you guys are trying new angles for these upgrade videos! I'll bet doing so many of these deck-techs you guys have a lot of pressure to innovate or refresh your formats. While people in the comments seem to be against this type of video I really appreciate the change. Keep it up!
as a casual player who will most likely never see the draw step of a cEDH game, i LOVED hearing a cEDH players thoughts on the deck and it's upgrades. she really showed it off in a light i don't often see and it definitely makes me think about my own decks in a new way. BIG liked this video, great content as always from the command zone crew :)
Loved seeing the cEDH perspective. Would like to see more from Shauna with her thoughts on cEDH.
It’s great to get input from the cEDH perspective. Hope we get more of that here in this channel.
Let me clarify. I’m not advocating for playing cEDH in this channel. I’m just talking about the mindset. I find the mindset very interesting and useful for deckbuilding.
This deck feels like the most straightforward one to me, so having a twist to the deck upgrade makes sense to me. Still, I do remember being a bit annoyed by the Edgar video sticking out from the rest of its wave, so I can understand why people might not like it.
Also huge shout-outs to Demon Slayer! As the person who's translating it into Russian, I have a lot of love for it in my heart and nothing brings me more joy than seeing people sing praises to it (even though I didn't really make it, objectively speaking).
Shauna is great. Her personality and perspective brings a lot to the show. I feel like I got a better understanding of the deck and mechanics than I normally do thanks to her. Honestly I see every change she made being super helpful if you’re going to be playing against mid/high level casual decks with a better budget than you.
I really enjoyed Shauna on this Command Zone Podcast. It was refreshing seeing a different perspective in upgrades. Her personality was great for the podcast. I would love to see her do more shows for the Command Zone. Keep up the amazing work!! I’m excited to see her in a commander game also.
This video is amazing! As a player, my group straddles that line between EDH & CEDH. We avoid decks that are instant combo win at turn 4, but we also optimize our decks to the highest degree and are willing to deal with any strategy. This video perfectly captures ways to make competitive and interactive decks at a budget.
great video. Love the cEDH perspective, it's much closer to my pod. Please do more of this stuff :)
So this video helped me decide what I wanted as my 4th deck. I'm a yugioh player and outside of precons for commander, I don't build any magic decks. I generally don't even buy packs or upgrade the decks much because a 100 cards is so much for me to process and figure out and I just can't get my head around the ratios so I accepted a more casual precon focused play and enjoy commander so much. Favorite commander channel right here and what got me to play.
Currently I am building though 4 decks. I really love brawl as the 60 card lower baseline is so much more appealing to me and the restriction it puts on deck building choice is very good. I don't like that brawl restricts to only standard legal but I'm choosing to ignore that for these 4 decks as I'm building something special. I'm trying to build 4 fun and interactive brawl decks without the standard restriction, each one designed with playing against the others in mind. Looking to have 4 great decks that I can pull out with friends and everyone can get a different experience than usual. Rn the other 3 are Abbadon, Magus Calgar, and Chulane (using the Perri precon with him). This will be the 4th deck as I really love this commander and the strategy. I think it will make a great 4th to my pod and really be a game shaker along side the other 3
Super stoked to watch this! I love cEDH and have been a Command Zone fan for even longer, very excited to see some spicy new ideas :)
I love the comparison between casual and competitive points on this deck! I'd love to see more of that.
It strikes a special balance that gives more context to what players expect from casual/non-competitive (a VERY general and ill-defined concept) versus what the strongest cards are (something not all players necessarily want, but many do, and it gives a clear parameter).
I'd love to see Shauna's upgrades for the Maestro's precon.
Just a quick note that a person can play Crop Rotation on the board with Yasharn out. Yasharn specifically mentions nonland permanents when it comes to sacrifice
I know taking this deck in a cEDH direction was a strange choice, but I actually really liked it. We have already seen other members of the team go in directions the deck weren't honed for, and this was a similar exercise.
However, what sets it apart is how deeply and thoroughly the pros and cons of taking it in this direction were discussed. It made me actually want to try this deck in a competitive environment to gain a better understanding of the different play style.
Thank you for the episode. It grew on me the longer I thought about.
This was a very helpful video, just bought into this Precon Commander deck and the insight given has really helped. Not only that but you both really went in depth on why or why not certain cards would not work. Thank you for this and amazing work!
I thought Shauna's cEDH perspective was really interesting and great to hear. Hope to see her on more future episodes
Probably worth discussing with possibility storm is that it is a soft lock with archon. Maybe I missed it but players get one spell, because it forces the player to choose to cast the spell it stops opponents from casting spells from their hand. So it comes down to commanders, on board presence, or a boseiju effect in order to break it and begin playing again.
I think this is an awesome way to approach an episode! We get casual upgrades all the time, we'll be getting 3 more after this for this set, but we rarely get to see OTHER ways to approach upgrades from y'all. I'll also say while it is a Cedh approach, this will still be a fairly casual deck and people should be a bit more open to stax pieces and such
I am a bit late to comment, but I think the suggested changes make the deck a lot better and more importantly more fun. Thanks!
I'm kind of thinking that if the Command Zone folks would've left the term "CEDH" out of this upgrade conversation, and made the exact same video without that term, that this vid would be more well received. Let's be real, the card substitution selections, and the discussion and reasoning behind them were fantastic! Shauna is an incredible guest to have on the show, and is very well spoken, sensible, and knowledgeable. Here's hoping that too many people don't let that CEDH term cloud their appreciation of the awesome discourse here and the lessons and strategy that can be learned from it.
Exactly this. Trying to push cedh in this episode made no sense. It upset casual players who don't want to hear competitive and it annoyed the cedh players who were confused by the selections and explanations and the overall unviable deck. Anyone interested in cedh bringing this to a table is going to be sad and further confused. Having doubling season on an honorable mentions list for a cedh deck is bizarre
I really enjoyed her perspectives on the format. I agreed with everything she said. Would love to hear more from her on that topic.
How many cards can take out this deck ?
CEDH player : ALL !
I really love the fact that you shot for cedh content which is cool. Although it does feel weird and a little left field to try to make this specific list anywhere near cedh, however the content and discussion is always fun. Thank you :)
While I do appreciate the mindset that Shauna brought to this episode and I feel that perhaps their could have been another episode for the players who don't have interest in cEDH. It seems the majority of the comments are in that same mindset. Now with that being said it was nice to have a different perspective than we are used to on these types of episodes, perhaps Shauna could start a segment for cEDH to also bring that content to the table, I believe there are a lot of viewers who would enjoy it. Again I am not at all trying to say this was a bad episode, because it wasn't, but I think a separation of casual vs cEDH content would be fantastic and I appreciate the effort that went into this content.
Would love to see more dipping into cEDH on the channel! Was super cool to listen to your contribution, Shauna :>
The cEDH upgrade for this was cool to see how the mentality changes when building a cEDH deck vs more casual deck building.
I think cross exposure and discourse is VERY healthy for the community! Stoked they are bringing cEDH into videos in a positive way, and I hope it continues!
I was surprised to see so many naysayers in the comments. I loved hearing from Shauna and the more cedh mindset. They said in the beginning, you're probably not going to take this to a cedh tournament and win. In a couple pods I play in, we try to make our decks as competitive as possible within the cards we have or for a budget. I can understand people wanting a casual upgrade guide to the precons so maybe not replace those, but I'd love to see more content with a competitive mindset on The Command Zone!
I really enjoy Shauna's "take no prisoners" outlook, looking forward to seeing this game!!
Love the digimon shout, as someone who is trying to get my edh group to learn it i enjoyed this
I thought doing the upgrade from a cEDH perspective is a really interesting exercise! Loving the Content!
@55:59 Possibility storm actually won me a cEDH game at a tournament recently. The game was at a bit of a standstill, it was around turn 7-8 or so and no one really had creatures out (lots of removal happened that game). There was basically just a magus of the moon in play (which is the biggest reason why no one could do anything), and that same player also had a niv mizzet parun in play. I was playing kinnan.
I untapped and slammed a phantasmal image. I was hoping for it to spin into one of the crazy creatures I play like tidespout tyrant/hullbreaker horror, or nyxbloom ancient, etc. I spun into a gilded drake. This happened to be pretty much exactly what I needed. I took the niv mizzet parun with it, then cast a finale of devastation with X as 0, hoping to hit a specific sorcery in my deck. I only play 5 sorceries in the list, and one of them was in my GY, and another was the finale. If i hit a transmute artifact I could go for a basalt monolith and try to win the game. Niv mizzet triggered and I drew a card, then pinged the magus of the moon with the niv trigger. I flipped off of possibility storm and hit the transmute artifact. I sacked a random artifact I had and got the basalt. This also got me another niv trigger which let me kill the magus of the moon. This was important since My outlet for this infinite colorless mana was on board - a treasure vault. I used the vault to make infinite treasures and then kinnan easily won from there.
In hindsight, the flip into that gilded drake was pretty much the only thing that could've won me the game there. I needed that niv mizzet to kill the magus of the moon so that I could use my 7-8 nonbasic lands that I had sitting on my field. The card is definitely good, but sometimes it helps an opponent get there.
I went the route of creatures that trigger when tapped. Dwarves, Merfolk, Emmarra, creatures with Inspired. Goad creatures and get things for tapping your stuff.
"The resident cEDH player picks the naya tokens deck" is a bet that I would have lost 9 times out of 10. And we need Shauna and more of the crew in Extra Turns
Edit: There's no way that Sokenzan is better than new Eiganjo
To be fair, she did say it wasn’t her first choice
I got a question for shauna if you were to go in the stax direction completely with adding 50$ more of stax cards what would you put in and take out
Shauna's upgrades made a bunch of sense. I'd like to more of her quick swaps for the other decks.
Any green token, +1/+1 counter deck i would build Doubling Season is a staple piece of the deck, along with Idyllic Tutor if running any combo of G/W and Wheel of Sun and Moon
I've actually managed to win against 3 cEDH decks with an Archelos deck. They focused so much on each other that I was able to fly under the radar and slow them down enough to pull off a win. It was actually pretty fun and made me really think of each play before I did anything.
I love when content creators do a reality check on super expensive cards. I get that they’re in high demand and are powerful, but for those of us on a budget, it can be frustrating unless we proxy (which I would do for doubling season).
Then here’s the thing about sword of feast and famine, doubling season, etc. Everyone sees it hit the board. They will try to remove it. If they can’t, you are suddenly a huge threat, and the game swings out of your favor because everyone wants to beat you instead, so you either need to win on the spot or just pray. So if your deck isn’t ready to handle that kind of attention from the board, it’s a bad card. So it’s not just 80 dollars for doubling season, it’s more for the good counter spells, or teferi’s protection, or heroic intervention. Good for you for having these pieces already, but there’s a case that some non-cEDH decks are not casual.
As an avid cEDH player I like and agree with these upgrades. The one I am a bit iffy on though is utopia sprawl. If I only had ten slots to choose from I'd probably include eidolon of rhetoric, another rule of law creature, or a dork if I wanted ramp (dorks have additional utility as being tappable from your commander). BOP if it fit in the budget, or just llanowar elves or avacyn's pilgrim otherwise.
Drannith magistrate is also a fantastic white stax creature, IMO the best one in the game, and it's about the same price as utopia sprawl. I just think that ramp isn't as important unless you have enough good threats or stax pieces to ramp into first. A bonus that you have a second rule of law to combo with possibility storm to lock players out of the game.
Note: All of these cards are in the Brute force cEDH decklist listed.
You discussed how the graveyard is a second hand in cEDH. How about Seance to allow this deck to utilize the grave as well?
First of all, what a brave statement Shauna made about the old art lol. I gotta say, I don't HATE old art (hate is a strong word) but I definitely dislike a lot of it, and 9 times out of 10 I'm gonma.pick a newer art if its available.
With that said it seems like the Jury is in and people aren't feeling the cedh upgrade here. Gotta say I agree to an extent.
I don't mind seeing some cedh uogrades here and there through you guys, but this doesn't seem like the proper outlet to do ir.
While I think some of the comments are a little sensitive and acting like they can't buy/build/play the deck without your budget uogrades, I definitely think this isn't the proper outlet to tackle a cedh deck.
This is my feedback though and doesn't change how much I appreciate your guys content as a whole and the work you put in. I love you.guys and commend you for trying something a little different and don't let any of the negative feedback deter you from branching out again in other areas.
P.S. please please please tell me Ashlin is doing one of the deck upgrades 😁😁😁 (the Jund one I hope 🙏)
Why try to make the most casual of the precons into a cedh deck? The grixis precon would make more sense.
Very interesting twist in deck construction!!
loved the unique episode, thanks Josh and Shauna!
Mayel works around Aven Mindsensor and Opposition Agent quite nicely. :)
I like the cedh upgrade it gives decks a new spin. It's not going to be cedh level but if you want to play at a higher level, then this is really cool. Keep it up, I hope you guys do one of these for each set
I run possibility storm in my Prosper deck. Since Possibility Storm only triggers if you cast from hand, I can still play my deck fine. The only danger to look out for is anything that limits you to sorcery speed (mostly Teferi), then nobody can cast spells except the person who has that card. And there are a lot of spells that can accidently just stop the game. That said, It is chaos and everybody loves it. I have players want me to start the game with it in play just to watch things go crazy.
I was told there would be cards suggested to take out? unless i missed it i only saw the cards i should be putting in.
Cabaretti cacophony lets go! Keep up the good work, Command zone!
Thank a cedh player today for playing stax in cedh and not casual.
In a CDH game, everything goes. If your opponentns get mad at you, your opponents need to rethink their lifes.
-Shauna
Honestly best quote around 54:12
Budget additions are a fun exercise.
For this deck, I’d want to take out:
Boss’s Chauffeur
Sizzling Soloist
Bloodthirsty Blade
False Floor
Intangible Virtue
Prosperous Partnership
Outpost Siege
Commander’s Sphere
Forest
Cabaretti Courtyard
I’m taking out what I feel are lower impact or ones that aren’t great fits for this deck in particular.
I’d wanna add in:
Shaman of Forgotten Ways
God-Eternal Oketra
Totski Bearer of Secrets
Bow of Nylea
Druids’ Repository
Kodama’s Reach
Llanowar Elves
Avacyn’s Pilgrim
Ornithopter of Paradise
I see the deck going wide as a utility to all sorts of shenanigans. Shaman of Forgotten Ways acts as good 3 mana ramp and as a potential win con for the deck. Oketra benefits from casted creature spells and is hard to remove. Bow of Nylea makes attacking tokens harder to block and Toski rewards us for successful attacks. Another powerful payoff for a wide board is Druids’ Repository which ramps and stockpiles for a bigger payoff later.
I decided to make this cEDH deck a vehicle goading deck where I will be replacing most cards. I'm not sure if a RGW deck will work as vehicle but I love her asthetic so much I can't help it. Kitt Kanto limousine queen and friends. I'm literally going to rebuild this deck as a limo service. I already have staff and utilities planned!
Was most excited for this deck, but what should I do with CEDH? No interest in such stuff especialy in Stax!
I would like to note that the reason Kazuul shot up in price was because of Isshin decks, since it triggers twice off the commander; Suprise Suprise, happy for the Path to Exile reprint though.
Exactly
I think Josh is underestimating False Floor a little. 4 mana is a bit steep for initial cost but having all creatures enter tapped is a powerful effect if you built your deck to not be affected by it, and its kind of a one sided board wipe when you activate it. You can even activate it after declaring attackers but before blockers are declared to have an unblockable swing. Not saying it's going to be a staple but I think it'll be very strong in some decks.
Love the cedh focus for the video! Awesome content as always!!!
Inalla was a precon where you could kinda do a "budget upgrade" where you invest into reanimation cards, so you can reanimate [[wanderwine prophets]] with two extra mana up and win the game.
Would Manglehorn be a consideration for this deck? Weaker version of Collector Ouphe, but still offers a way to slow down your artifact heavy opponents, and possibly snipe an early problem artifact.
Great conversation, just wish we could see more of that truc guy!
Voted up due to the uniqueness of the review. Love hearing a different view point. Hard disagree about Sevala, as her ability is a mana ability it is hard to interact with and has 2 card combos that win.
it was cool to see a cEDH perspective :) , good job peeps
I would love to see more cEDH centered content on this channel and I loved the guest speaker. But I want the stats, analysis, and card swaps to be centered around where I’m actually going to be playing a precon deck. Nobody’s gonna buy a precon and try to hang with a cEDH pod, or at least they won’t make that mistake twice lol.
I’d love to see what y’all would come up with if it was just a full deck-tech with this as the commander. No limitations.
30 bucks can get you a very solid budget combo list.
*ten cards* now that's a rough restriction to add to it.