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Choosing a classical guitar for flamenco. Pete Carter.
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- Опубліковано 17 вер 2014
- You do not need a dedicated flamenco guitar to play flamenco. Many classical models will do the job ,often at a more reasonable price. Here's why. PLEASE SUBSCRIBE. THANKS.
For those doing modifications to guitar saddles, first measure the action at 12th fret - that is the distance on top of the fret to the underside of the string. If it is 4mm and you want 3mm, then mark the saddle when in situ (all along) and sand off 2mm. The principle is that if you shave off 2mm, it will lower it 1mm at 12th fret. You wont break anything. Saddles are replacable. The saddle slot can be modified but be sure the have enough support for the saddle. Bone saddles or carbon fibre might assist you in getting the tone you want. Get golpeaodor tap protection too. If you can't afford a flamenco guitar with character and correct specs, choose a flamenco sounding classical iñ your price range. It is the sound you are after - then you can fix the action. Having said that, you will still find a proper flamenco guitar more inspiring, authentic and easier to play.
Correct on all counts. Thanks.
Perhaps the much older generations of Flamenco guitarists *were* buying less expensive classical guitars ;-)
and spanish classical guitar player from 1900's so fluent with flamenco technique, their hand (finger) so fluid
I have an Admira Almeria classical guitar
When I play flamenco it sounds amazing
5mn35: Good advice! This is what I didn't pay attention to when I bought my first guitar a year ago, and why I sold it… Today I would have followed your advice, but I'm lucky enough to have found a beautiful flamenco guitar, completely solid, very easy to play, and with a great flamenco sound, for only 500€! A Prudencio Saez modelo 22. Fantastic guitar! 😀
Yours, second hand, is now close to that price... (I see one at 350€ and another at 420€...)
Mindblown! Thank you! I was looking at acquiring an expensive flamenco but was sitting on the fence… good thing I saw your video 😊
It's a good way to save money. They do make Flamenco Strings which work great on Classical Guitars cause they're the same material.
I've finally got the video and information I need. I've been searching these kinds of videos for 3 years now and still was stuck thinking can you play flamenco in classical or not XD. Thanku so much it was very informative than you think
Woow I never saw a video like this before and it has resolved very old questions on this regard. Thanks Pete, I would really apply this tip, I just bought a basic classical Yamaha c40, it´s a good guitar cheap range classical, I am working on the set up, the action can be set low by the way, so it may do the job for my basic flamenco playing.
Thanks Naprauss. You can always rely on yamaha for quality at the right price. I have a Yamaha 182F flamenco guitar. It has a super slim neck(full width) and the action is good right out of the box, but I have taken the action down to less than 3mm at the 12th fret and taken a little off the nut. since adjusting the nut, I hardly ever play with a capo any more. Playability is everything to me these days. Why pay a fortune for a bit better tone?
Less than 3 mm? that´s amazing. I will adjust mine this weekend, as being classical it came pretty high right out from the box, but a good setup will fit the guitar very well. Hope to post a video soon.
HI Ola! You seem to have a very wide set of demands . For pop,folk blues etc, steel string guitar might be better. But, thats not to say that you can't do it on a nylon string instrument. If flamenco is your main priority, then it really has to be a nylon string model. The video deals with the classical guitar route, so what about inexpensive flamenco models. I actually have a Yamaha 182F and I am very happy with it. However, I did get it second hand, in immaculate condition for £200 ($225). The action on these is good right out of the box although I have taken mine down a little more. A cheaper guitar that I have is an Antonio Hermosa AH15. Really good tone, but the bridge bone is crazy high and needs to be set up. I took mine down to less than 3mm( thickness of a British one pound coin) and it plays great and sounds really good. It has no golpeadors fitted but that doesn't worry me . Aria and Alhambra have models similar to the 182F at around the same price.The 182F and AH15 have a scale length of 650mm. Don't buy a guitar with any longer scale length than this . my old classical has a scale length of 655mm and just that extra 5mm makes a noticeable increase in string tension. also ,factory fitted strings are often not great. Stick a set of D'Adarrio EJ45 normal tension on it and hear the difference. The Antonio Hermosa is available on Amazon so you can check out the price. I would say that if you intend travelling, invest in a good quality hard case. Good Luck.
Wise thinking. Be aware that some small travel guitars have a narrower fingerboard. Choose one with standard classical width as closer string spacing can be a hinderance for flamenco. Another option could be a 3/4 size classical model as these have a full size neck with a smaller body. By the way, the hermosa AH15 seems no longer available and people are asking stupid money for a used one. good luck and thanks for your interest.
how did it work for you in these years??
What a lovely man! Brilliant thank you
The issue i always encountered with classical guitars is when you lower the action to flamenco specs the strings started to sound more like rubber bands and guitar losses projection. Classical guitar need to have a lower saddle profile in the first place and to have a light wood to get em setup low otherwise they sound like crap when action is low in the 2.5mm range. Great video!
Thank you so much for the great information! I have been thinking about this issue myself for some time now, as I am thinking of purchasing a classical guitar and converting it to flamenco. Very helpful information for sure! It's great having an honest opinion! Thanks.
This may seem obvious, but to take the bridge down,remove the bone,mark one end so you put it back in the same way .place a piece of coarse sand paper on a flat surface,and rub the bone firmly on it, removing material from the BOTTOM, Try it ,a bit at a time. If you over do it,you can put a shim of hard wood veneer under it . You might want to do the same with the nut, to optimise open position action.Good luck.
Thank you for the advice! I have thought about doing this myself, but I am little afraid that I will mess things up or something! I will just have to measure the height at 12th fret and set it at a reasonable level, maybe 3 mm or something. Thanks again!
You make total sense !
Hanson's Altamira n700f blew me away yesterday when picking up some new strings at my local music store. The quantity was outstanding.
Strings are way to high for flamenco
Man I got some yamaha classical guitar c70 to play are flamenco make me to keep it
thanks for the awesome advice....have a nylon godin, want to buy a regular 'flamenco'.
I like your informative video and your playing too.
Very nice tone, totally agree with what you say.
Most flamenco people on UA-cam insist you can't play flamenco on a classical, its nonsense, people have been modifying classicals forever. There needs to be allowances made for the majority who can't blow £2k + on a guitar.
Thanks for your comment. Many cheaper ,so called, classicals these days are using all kinds of woods for back and sides, and are neither one thing or the other. Open mind in all things.
Wish my Cordoba F7 could perform like your example. Loud, bright and good. How does your example perform for classical styles as modified?
Suits me fine for classical, but then I'm not a nit picking purist.
You are absolute right .
The main thing that you didn't realise is a flamenco guitar top is thinner than classical so to provide quick attack. After you play a note, the top vibrates instantly and reach its peak volume in milli seconds then decay out. It's not all about percussiveness and low action. If you let a beginner play on a classical guitar he would get used to all this lagging notes.
It is also for this exact reason that flamenco guitars are more expensive. The top must be made from better quality wood than classical.
Also the definition of a good sounding guitar and good sounding voice (for singer) is different in flamenco. Flamenco singers don't have voice like katy perry or elton john. Likewise good flamenco guitars don't sound like romanillos classical guitars.
I actually mentioned those very points in the video. Cheap ,so called, classical guitars do not have the same qualities as a really good one,so there is less of a problem. Thanks for your comment.
klasikindo You have added a very important information! the lag you mentioned can make it impossible to get some techniques sounding right. Flamenco guitar is a very complex and high level technique in the first place if you add a guitar that is not setup for it, it will make it very hard to progress and get the right body sensation for each technique.
@@duendedude2345 To my ear rasgueado on this guitar sounding little muddy and not will defined and you clearly trying to get some aggressiveness from basses but still too mellow for flamenco sound. It is like almost there but still not there.
@@RonH_music I now have a flamenco guitar that I have set up to perfection( for me).It is unbelievably easy to play. This level of playability could never be achieved on my old classical.Now I have the best of both worlds. Thanks for your comments and interest.
DuendeDude It's the same Guitar. Lots of Jazz guys prefer these Guitars due to their Mellow Sound if they're playing Acoustically.
Great video and thank you so much for your opinion. I think you are right in your assumption.
Very welcome
Thank you for this video. You just saved me a lot of money and a trip to the dog house if you know what I mean.
Hi, great video. I've wondered about this myself a lot.
I have a Paco Castillo 204 - would it be possible to lower the action similar to a Flamenco as you suggest?
Great video! Solid advice and as always fantastic playing!
Great topic, in fact exactly what I was wondering, because Flamenco guitars are in the thousands of Euros. Would you consider making a video with your models of inexpensive entry level classical guitars suitable for Flamenco, also what do you think about dedicated Flamenco guitar strings to be used on the classical guitar for Flamenco, one more thing, Spruce or Cedar Top?. Thank you for your help and happy new years.
See my earlier videos to hear my 1980 Aria classical. Recognise it by the rosewood sides. Later videos are using my Yamaha 182sf, bought second hand for £200, Still prefer the sound of the Aria but the Yamaha has a shorter scale length and is so much easier to play. Cedar or spruce top is a matter of personal preference but most pro players use spruce. I can;t see there can be any difference between classical and dedicated flamenco strings. Just a marketing ploy ?
Thank you for your response and specially about the marketing ploy, I am currently bidding on a yamaha c70 and a Carlos 426, one those will be my Flamenco wanna be guitar, thank you for your tutorial videos I truly enjoy learning from you.
I have a classical guitar, 3/4 with top spruce and maple in rest.They sound more classical to acoustic(i use classical cords, the German Pyramid chords), with bright tone.What should change to sound more to flamenco style? And there is a standard tuning for flamenco?
Flamenco players often play closer to the bridge with the right hand than classical players. this gives a brighter sound. Most traditional flamenco is in standard tuning. Altered tunings are more common these days for certain pieces.
From what I gather, you can sand down the bridge plate too, if it's too high to allow lowering of the bone saddle
sounds very good (sound in the video and playing) .... did you add a plastic golpeador ? (I've seen some products that are even plastic "static-cling" types that don't need to be glued which sounds interesting for my soft oil-finish Godin La Patrie cedar-top classical)
I did fit a golpeador, but ,unfortunately, only after I had chewed a hole in the top where I rest my thumb from years of playing without one.
I agree with you. If you're not spending much, the odds are that a budget classical guitar will sound better than a less than $1000 flamenco one. My Yamaha C40 sounds better than the relatively more expensive CG171CF. Also, you're more likely to get ripped off in flamenco guitars than classical ones.
Lol
Thank you for your advice. Which classical guitar model and strings you used in the video ?
Guitar is a 1980 Japanese Aria. Strings, D'adarrio EJ 45 normal tension.
please can you play the govi bumblebeat song end show the tabs. Pleaseeeee. I search in Google, nothing. please
Ole!!!!
Hi Pete thanks for your video..i am thinking of swapping my left hand Peter Barton concert classical guitar for a Camps Primera A Blanca flamenco guitar..do you think this might be a bad choice ? Many thanks, Andy
HI ! Andrew. The original intension of this videos was aimed at those considering an instrument from the lower price range. You already own a fine hand made instrument, and I guess the camps is also a quality guitar. They will however be very different animals, so it comes down to a very personal choice. I do know one thing though. Over the years, I have parted with a few instruments and with very few exceptions ,I have later regretted It. I guess the ideal solution is to have them both, if finances allow.Sorry, I can't be more helpful. Good luck.
DuendeDude Thank you very much Pete yes I've decided against the swap 😊
Taranta definitely sounds really good on my margarit y manuel luthier india guitar, while as bulerias sounds better on my flamenco guitar.
I can see that, given the dark mood of tarantas and the up beat mood of bulerias
Don’t know if you’ll have enough time to read but... I’m delving into the flamenco head first. I want a good nylon guitar.. so I seen you did a video on the yamaha cg182sf which is suppose to be flamenco.. see where I’m coming from now. I’m now wondering weather to go w it! Or to go w a cheaper classical?
If you intend spending the price of the 182sf,I would say definitely go for it. The slim neck, close action,and 650mm scale length make it very easy to play. The tone of mine has improved tremendously in the last two years. Yamaha guitars are also very consistent so there is no chance of getting a bad un. There are far more cheaper flamenco models available since I posted this video, So the situation has changed somewhat and I guess this post only remains valid if you go to the lower end of the market.
DuendeDude and I hate to ask but one more question... is the cg172sf the same as the cg182sf?
There was a 171, then 172,then the 182 which is the successor of the first two which I think are no longer available. I suspect they are pretty similar but the 182 is the latest model.
What about santos mrartinez sm80 guitar ? Does it work ? I bend it down almost became 2-3mm
Santos Martinez guitars are good value for money. If you can get it to 3mm or a bit less,without coming down onto the wood of the bridge, it should be fine. But I haven't seen the actual guitar ,so use your own judgement. The height at the nut will make a difference when playing in the open position. using a capo will bring the action closer too.
DuendeDude Thank you for your advice
Would you try this with Yamaha cg 131s?
The modern Yamahas have thinner back and sides and slimmer necks( not fingerboard width). No heavy lacquer finishes, which helps with tone. I see no reason not to try a low action set up. I you don't like it, it costs pennies for a new bridge bone.
@UCzWxSIrwuWgRPI-Avk2Tazg
Classical Guitars are great for Flamenco playing because the Nylon Strings have that sound Flamenco players like.
I like you so much you so good prison cheaper flamenco guitar thoman 1 f from thoman 177$
🇮🇶🇮🇶🇮🇶
Need to train a little....before explain us how to choose a " crap"classical guitar.....
What?
@@zimbabwe-wz5iw you sound awful...you dont know how to play a rasgueado....
@@romanegander8199 oh. He is bad at playing? And he should practice more?
@@zimbabwe-wz5iw Sure...he must...
@@romanegander8199someone can say that about your English too, amigo!