It’s insidious & creeps up slowly on you, while they watch to see if you’re passing their tests by becoming dysregulated, but we need to pause here then decide it’s not OK to continue down this road with them to madness
They pretend to listen and seem on board with what you have to say, but in reality it just goes over their head. It leaves the victim confused and unheard.
So cool to have my comment quoted by Dr. Kerry McAvoy: "Another challenge with setting a boundary with a narcissistic person is: once you have set it, the narcissist knows exactly what to push on."
I was married to a narc for 30 years , I left not when I learned he was a narc but when I was in such a state of anxiety and distress I was seriously worried about my mental health. Now a year following divorce I have learned a great deal , how I was routinely manipulated, gas lit and devalued . I’m working now on building a healthy relationship with myself and safety. . Thankfully I have loving children and good friends .
I have learned that it is best to accept a narcissist for who they are. It is pointless to try to reason with a narcissist. Even when you present facts and evidence which supports your argument, it's pointless and hopeless. Because when a narcissist is proven wrong, they'll either viciously attack you, simply change the subject or simply shut down and not respond. If the narcissist is a malignant narcissist and he/she shuts down, that could be very dangerous. IMO, the best way to deal with a narcissist is to simply go no contact. If you cannot go no contact then setting strong boundaries works well. Sometimes that means responding with neutral words like "ok" "I see" "whatever" "I hear ya" "well, what can you do." Sometimes if the conversation is really uncomfortable and confrontational, I excuse myself to the restroom or pretend that I have to take a phone call or simply say "I don't mean to be rude but I just remembered that I have to make a pit stop at the store I have no eggs to make tonight's dinner." Most importantly, I don't allow any narcissist to disrespect my boundaries. If they refuse to speak to me with respect, I refuse to dialogue with them and remain in their company. I have learned a lot from Dr. Carter. I am happy with my life. I'm playing my trumpet, and singing in my choir. Healing means getting your life back. Don't live your life as a victim.
@Delacari Yeah, I have family members who are narcissists. I also worked with a narcissist, which was tough. I went to therapy and worked on myself. Dr. Carter's videos help a lot. There's really no escaping narcissists because they're everywhere. You just learn to set boundaries with them and reinforce those boundaries when you need to.
@Delacari It took me a very long time to understand how to deal with narcissists and how to communicate with them. You have to understand that narcissists have a different mindset than healthy individuals. Believe it or not, in addition to therapy, watching Dr. Carter's videos and the Little Shaman's videos have really helped me tremendously. To simply put it, you will never ever get your point across to a narcissist. They don't even agree to disagree. To make matters worse, if they sense that their getting under your skin, they don't feel remorse but instead feel empowered by it. They love to control situations and people. Don't ever seek validation from them because you're not getting it. To be honest, you don't need anyone's validation. The truth validates the innocent and the righteous. Let them live in their alternate reality. Because eventually, they'll self-destruct.
The light in all of this is that they're not smart about their tactics. They follow the same pattern because, to them, it works. If it isn't broke why fix it? Controlling behavior feels smothering because it is smothering. It's not being kind or loving, it's a method of control. Once you tell them that you're not following for it, they get mad. It's so predictable.
Smothering, that's it, that's the feeling. Coverts do things to control and go at you if you're 'ungrateful'. They smother you, it's not actual help because they want to, it's to manipulate and gain control and have you doing what they want and does feel like you're being crushed and smothered! My nex and mother both like this.
How could that help? Judges, don't they make their decisions on the facts presented, not necessarily the people's psychological mindset as those in the psychology field? Hope that made sense..lol😏 PS: don't mind me, I'm curious, and still learning all the above. 🫤
My experience with setting boundaries with Narcs is that the only available solutions with them is leaving the relationship in order to enforce the boundary. They do not subject themselves to respecting any boundaries that don't serve their agenda.
Narc said she was confused instead of being accountable, they created the chaos. She said she doesnt have the freedom to speak, really? That s the problem, we don t have the freedom to our business, always a double standard. She s a horrible sil, meddling, gaslighting, crazy making chaos, blameshifting, etc. How come your not talking to me?,Duh? Or saying some people you just get. We don t meddle in their life, or pick on her husband because shes extremely competitive. No one can have the spotlight on them always her. Always projecting competitive, yet its her.Entitled because they re older and have a role in the family, which is a narc meddler, no thank you. Our role is to be on receiving end of gaslighting and know it all criticisms directed at us. Had enough,nothing wrong with dividing ourselves with evil
It makes sense a narcissist can go into a rage then a few hours sleep like a baby because the narcissist released some of their inner rage, which gives some temporary relief from it. Normal people wouldn't be able to sleep because doing that wouldn't give them temporary relief since they don't have an inner rage problem. Normal people wouldn't be able to sleep after going into a rage a few hours before bed because that would increase their adrenaline and stress hormones, causing their thoughts to go a thousand miles per minute.
Dr. C, thank you for sharing your valuable knowledge, and Dr. M was so helpful too! On the subject of boundaries, if a covert narcissist doesn’t follow your boundaries, I don’t understand how and why we need to set them. I realize now I should have divorced my husband long ago, but now almost 70 years old and married 25 years, financially I am afraid I would not be in good shape. 😢. I think having my dogs in my live (no kids) made me determined to make our marriage work, but of course it didn’t. I love seeing Gus on the sofa!
Thank you Dr. McAvoy and Dr. Carter! I admire the two of you so much. Indeed, my problem was that I didn't think like a narcissist. And was nearly clueless that anyone else thought like a narcissist. I feel like I am waking up from a bad dream.
Btw I love this interview, it’s very natural and unforced and you are not interrupting or talking over each other - which happens in like 99% of these sorts of videos and drives me nuts! Great content too, very relatable and informative!
Dr Kerry said something that is "so me". She said, she would open up to people, until that person would do something to hurt her, and then she would pull back. That's what I do too. But Dr. Kerry said, we should instead take relationships one step at a time. Such wise advice. I used to say, "I'm an open book, until that person betrays me. After that, I will never confide in that person again. I won't treat them badly, I just won't be chummy with them ever again, because they have proven themselves to not be trust worthy." But I think Dr Kerry's advise is a much wiser approach.
Excellent! I’m listening to this a few times to let it sink in. The boundary piece is tricky. I have boundaries and can speak up gently when needed (without getting defensive). I’m learning that my reaction of not responding (indifference and ignoring them) to their bad behavior speaks louder than giving the narc ammunition to retaliate…. I kind of just treat the narc like she is an idiot and I don’t have time for her and stay in my joy. But overall I truly just stay away or keep it short from the narcs. (Family). If this sounds confusing - so sorry! 😮😅😊😮
I wish I had seen this video about 37 years ago. The irony of some of this is just mind blowing the description of the circumstance concerning the vehicle wow in the relationship that I was in just dating at the time the person said that my brand new vehicle was not safe, and I should turn it in and I just happen to be so needy and trusting that I did that and wound up with an old clunker that would stall in the middle of the intersections. There were many many red flags, but coming from my own brokenness, I could not see it, thank you so much for these videos
I'd never thought of it that way. Something to think about, do I feel safe in the relationships I have with those I believe are narcissistic. The answer would be nope! Very helpful to give me some peace of mind over the utter confusions they all but one especially shoves my way! They're as flaky as hell, critical and do things for me where it feels like im chained to them rather than true respect and giving. More like I did these things and "after all the things we do for you", so you have to be grateful and do what I want you to do. If I'd known there was this huge price tag I would have said no thank you!
Remember that NO ONE can read our mind or has the right to define us. We cannot control them. Only ourselves. Claim ownership of you and start the journey out of their realm. See you on the other side.
It's one of their moves to peer closely at you, start sneering or smirking, and declare loudly that they know what you're thinking and to start reacting to those thoughts. It's how they create a nasty narrative in a fit of (Academy Award-worthy) acting with disgust and outrage at you. It's a declaration of war, really.
They often are looking for "volunteers" for charitable projects. They need others to do the work. That way they set up the dynamic of very easily bossing folks around. They do it with great ease as community "leaders."
Thank you both! I often wonder where I would be in life without learning about narcissism through the videos you provide. Recovering, surviving, forever altered by what happened to me. Team Healthy and videos such as these reaffirm that we are on the right road, heading in a positive direction. Thanks for leading the way for me.
I'm literally steps away from leaving my covert narcissist mother. When I talked to her about my moving away her only response was along the lines of she didn't want me to leave because there won't be anyone at her house to serve her.
Thank you Dr. C. Excellent Information! Thank you for your support to those of us who have lived and survived so far, and we continue to need direction on this journey to know how to navigate the "Minefields"...
I think they intend to get every ounce of whatever you got to use for their own benefit. Everything of any remote value, material, psychological, social - everything. They are not satisfied until they believe they've got it all. They'll make odd declarations as such. (Think about the non-sequiturs they've left you with.) They also exact the cost of your un-spinning your head for a while after you have been in their presence. They are like a slam on your equilibrium.
They absolutely enjoy seeing you and making you be in pain....I've listened to things they said, making remarks that "You will fail, wait and see".....they plan to harm others.
From experience, I know it is true about the intense confusion. Observers are unlikely to understand why you don't just do this or do that. You become afraid to ask for much needed help.
I agree with her ending questions except “Are they showing up?” The narcissist I dealt with always showed up when he needed to make sure intermittent reinforcement would eventually work to his advantage. He showed up big time for the big things and found a way to “seemingly” show up for the small things. It was the in between that he chose to check out, coast, or completely dismiss. For me one of those questions to help others recognize the chaos is- “Are they being consistent with who they say they are and who they really are? Does their character line up with their behaviors?” I wish I had realized sooner- when the answer to that latter question is “no,” you are dealing with a narcissist and they will never change
Also i appreciate the profound comment you shared at the end "boundaries with narcissists is just so they know what buttons to push". I have come to this conclusion as well after unfortunately dealing with more than one narcissist. You really cant share anything about yourself with them
This was absolutely tremendous, Thankyou to you both for this, More truth's and exposure, Self trust is a must and don't care for their reactions to truth, I'll keep shining my light and getting educated, I'm going to be doing a course on domestic abuse, I look forward to it, Peace, love and respect to you both and Gus and everyone, Thank you universe, All Glory and smiles to the most high :-)
Great Conversation. Divorcing a Nasty Covert. 40 years of not knowing what was going on. It's been so challenging and mind boggling. Information such as this add some sanity to the insanity.
The amount of RIDICULOUS, OUTRAGEOUS, and DANGEROUS situations my narc parent put the family in over the years is so over the top that I seldom tell anyone about it outside of my counseling sessions because it makes ZERO sense. And nevermind talking to the narc about it, that just opens up the door for more craziness. Not worth the trouble for me, I'm loving from a SAFE distance and making no apologies for it.
The movie compliance comes to mind. I listened to everything my mother said because she got me to the state where I was dependent on her. The manipulation is so subtle, a few words, some suggestions, getting me doing what she thinks I should be!
In the beginning my friends Narc would NOT ALLOW her to open her own doors. If she tried he would become furious. His "cover" was that he was being a "chilverous manly protector." He was hiding his Narc under the cover of protecting her. He acted as if her were a" Giver" but in fact he was really a "taker". So it all boils down to; are they a "GIVER" or a "TAKER! " However in the beginning stages they always come off as a "GIVER". That's where the confusion comes in. She would not listen to me, and to our heartbreak, he went on to viciously absue her and her her beautiful baby boy. In his case..his anger (over the doors) gave him away..but she overlooked it because of the "role" he was playing...
He is a child himself. When the baby arrived he acted like a jealous sibling. He can not be a parent! Professor Sam Vaknin explains this well. I think it is overlooked in this conversation.
I find that most Religious Narcissists will do that. They come off as all Caring and Attentive and Giving and Invested in Your Well being at the Beginning. But, once they've got you invested in Them and Their Agendas and Upholding their narrative, They become Takers. They cross more and more boundaries and make more and more demands of you with expectations of no resistance on your part. They go from False Givers into Egotistical Takers.
Dr. C, at about 34:23, Dr. McAvoy says "Or is it feeling really out of balance and like you're trying to take care of and save them in order to save yourself?" I would really love to know more about that dynamic.
Can you guys please have another interview soon?! I love the synergy between you both, so balanced and wonderful. Thank you for this interview, I have gotten so much from it. I Will listen again soon. While listening I just felt blessed to be with other people who care about this subject so deeply and care about how we treat each other and how to do better and be better. Also, to understand we are separate, and together, we can have patience and empathy but we can not go down to where the other person is. We have to have a strong sense of ourselves first and look after ourselves. I really like that segment, it would be good to talk some more about that aspect if possible at a later stage.,So much in this interview, jam packed with amazing content. More brilliant days for all of us here at Team Healthy! Blessings Dr C/my surrogate grandfather Les! I did say, my grandfather‘s name was Les and he was such a wonderful man as well.
I think I believe he knew what he was doing... yep, moved into domestic violence, sure did... he was definitely ill & tried to take me down... & certainly have no trust in men now
Sorry I was tapping this out on the exercise bike and it looks like it. But really that was very insightful and informative. The conversational flow was fantastic. I could listen to you two on a regular weekly Podcast.
I really appreciate dr Kerry mcavoy's sentiments! I have come to these same conclusions. Christian values are amazing and I live my life by the standards in the Bible, however as a woman you must understand that the man you partner with must hold himself to the same standards you do. Otherwise you will constantly be sacrificing "me" for "we" and guess what, if you're with a narcissistic abuser--there is no we. They are already cheating on you, probably not supporting you and actually actively working towards your downfall
I purposely did organizing over the summer to make it less available for certain people to cause confusion. If it's not in a help desk ticket I won't be attending to it.
At 12:25 She mentioned an interesting study about domestic violence from the book "How he gets into her head". Good insight here. Please do some further research.
When they are creating that confusion they are pretending to be such good listeners only up until they find an excuse to the the harm which they already before that pretend listening was going on.
How do you get over the brain fog. It’s weird because you can’t believe people would do these things. You were in a play and had no idea they were playing a roll.
I relate to this interview. But now that I am in the 'KNOW' my relationship is far less painful this way! Understanding what reality is with these sick people helps us get healthy, heal and regain our self and our sanity.
@@Summer_Harvest Yes in certain ways. Put some distance in the areas of your life that pull you in too much and trap you into thinking you 'need' them. Grow in your friendships with healthy others.
@@a.pepper6687 if I can ask; Did you go into couples therapy or just stand up and set your boundaries? I have a family who are starting to put some pieces together. Since becoming an empty nester it is things are becoming more coercively controlled.
@@Summer_Harvest After many decades living with my spouse in all of the confusion that goes along with a narrisist, I found Dr. C. None of my therapists in the past caught it or suggested it. In my youth living in a 'sick environment' of people, I understood at a young age they were sick and realized I might become sick, too. I did; I had severe depression. I suppose my past therapists had a legitimate reason for not grasping the toxicity of my home life in my youth and those who treated me in my adult years. Getting a strong understanding of the true situation, facing it, grieving for it, then moving on emotionally, if not physically separating ourselves from the offenders is life changing. We must grow to believe and trust in ourselves, and I HIGHLY recommend a relationship with my Lord and Savior Jesus Christ above all!
yup, exploitive is the word.. I had a coworker who would get people to help her out, and then just dump them or even turn on them. She would always hang out upstairs where the managers are, for no reason… and sure enough within literal weeks she had a senior manager boyfriend. She later dumped him and got with someone else & had a son… well guess what now they’re not together either. She’s a real piece of work!!
Dear dr. I'm from the middle east and it is not easy to understand the scientific expressions .but your knowledge is so precious I suffered many years with a narcissist psychopath. Still the arabic channels is weak in defining those people Would you please translate your videos to Arabic like Dr berg????
I always think an issue is the narcissist woos our own remnant narcissistic traits, and that's how they can be really compelling I also think narcissists have some kind of pathological failure avoidance - they can't see themselves as failing or being wrong, even a little bit. This means they will use the most ruthless and scheming approaches, because they can't see anything wrong with them doing those things - they don't self correct because they'd have to see themselves as being slightly wrong in order to self correct. Possibly this doesn't apply to the malignant narcissist, they've started to truly agree with doing bad things, rather than being pathologically blind to doing bad things. But I wonder if I'm being too charitable in this model of narcissism, so I'm open to being argued otherwise.
It was shocking to hear that “all relashionships start from the angle of “How can I convince you to like me?” This is not true!!! It’s very sad when victims are blamed for what they are not guilty of! I wonder why Dr Carter didn’t say anything to that… (
Is it a mental illness? My friends spouse always goes at her with I gave you everything. But not what she wanted respect empathy and a conversation with him without him becoming hostile and verbal abuse.
Hi so much you are saying is resonating with me. I’m living with my 24 year old son. He is so abusive and volatile. He screams at me and calls me abusive names nearly on a daily basis. Family have told me to chuck him out. I can’t as he’s my son and I love him. But I just don’t know what to do, how to talk to him. Any advice would be so appreciated
Definitely they don’t care and rather happy to be contemptuous putting their innocent family in danger been in fire since he decided l am not worth be alive plenty of sickening evidence before the courts why on earth is this person far from humanity
My ex told me that his father died when I first met him. It felt strange, I couldn’t understand why he would tell a total stranger. I later saw him tell multiple people he met. His father passed when my ex was 14 he was 34 when we met?
If you know the works of Professor Sam Vaknin, then you know that a narcissist basically is a little child inside. So look at them like you would look at a child. You know how irrational a child can be? Also how cute, funny and adorable? I come to the conclusion that you just have to love your narcissist. That‘s all he wants. But be like a caregiver. Set clear boundaries and repeat them until it is heard and accepted. If you lead by good example, they will follow. We are evolving beings and I grew a lot with my so called narcissist. And one more point. I am an evolutionary astrologer. Our horoscope show so many karmic, past life patterns. And when you mention that they mirror us… we have this reflected in our horoscopes. We actually are astrological twins. So, we belong together, no matter how narcissistic he acts. This gave me a lot of security and I stopped doubting his or my sanity. And he is learning astrology now too and we get a much better understanding of why things happen the way they do. Love is the strongest force in our universe. This is truth.
in an ideal world, we would not have narcs or have any associations with these people. But that's in an ideal world. I am so fed up having to deal with these narcs, they just don't change at all.. Dr C you sound very hoarse, problem with your throat at all.?
It's crazy I be getting set up done went to jail got people attacking me people are shooting at me my gf is missing and the narcissist has her im trying to help her but can't find her it's a lot more but I can't talk about it. I'm being stalked is this real I don't know what to do.
It’s insidious & creeps up slowly on you, while they watch to see if you’re passing their tests by becoming dysregulated, but we need to pause here then decide it’s not OK to continue down this road with them to madness
they put power over morals, and we put morals over power.
But they can pretend perfectly to be moral and virtuous!
Perfectly stated. I really like your comment.
@@Angela-ul9si
Let me put it this way once I ran to you now I run from you.
💯💯
Spot on!
They pretend to listen and seem on board with what you have to say, but in reality it just goes over their head. It leaves the victim confused and unheard.
Absolutely!
So true! They're not interested, don't listen and don't care to know the other person.
So cool to have my comment quoted by Dr. Kerry McAvoy: "Another challenge with setting a boundary with a narcissistic person is: once you have set it, the narcissist knows exactly what to push on."
⭐
@@lt827
Boundary what is a boundary? none for you but they sure hold to theirs don't disagree or talk negative about them or it's game on. 🥴🥴🥴
@@Ratgirl2 why wouldn’t there be a double standard for boundaries? Narcissists have double standards for everything else.
I was married to a narc for 30 years , I left not when I learned he was a narc but when I was in such a state of anxiety and distress I was seriously worried about my mental health. Now a year following divorce I have learned a great deal , how I was routinely manipulated, gas lit and devalued . I’m working now on building a healthy relationship with myself and safety. . Thankfully I have loving children and good friends .
I have learned that it is best to accept a narcissist for who they are. It is pointless to try to reason with a narcissist. Even when you present facts and evidence which supports your argument, it's pointless and hopeless. Because when a narcissist is proven wrong, they'll either viciously attack you, simply change the subject or simply shut down and not respond. If the narcissist is a malignant narcissist and he/she shuts down, that could be very dangerous. IMO, the best way to deal with a narcissist is to simply go no contact. If you cannot go no contact then setting strong boundaries works well. Sometimes that means responding with neutral words like "ok" "I see" "whatever" "I hear ya" "well, what can you do." Sometimes if the conversation is really uncomfortable and confrontational, I excuse myself to the restroom or pretend that I have to take a phone call or simply say "I don't mean to be rude but I just remembered that I have to make a pit stop at the store I have no eggs to make tonight's dinner."
Most importantly, I don't allow any narcissist to disrespect my boundaries. If they refuse to speak to me with respect, I refuse to dialogue with them and remain in their company.
I have learned a lot from Dr. Carter. I am happy with my life. I'm playing my trumpet, and singing in my choir. Healing means getting your life back. Don't live your life as a victim.
@Delacari Yeah, I have family members who are narcissists. I also worked with a narcissist, which was tough. I went to therapy and worked on myself. Dr. Carter's videos help a lot. There's really no escaping narcissists because they're everywhere. You just learn to set boundaries with them and reinforce those boundaries when you need to.
@Delacari It took me a very long time to understand how to deal with narcissists and how to communicate with them. You have to understand that narcissists have a different mindset than healthy individuals. Believe it or not, in addition to therapy, watching Dr. Carter's videos and the Little Shaman's videos have really helped me tremendously. To simply put it, you will never ever get your point across to a narcissist. They don't even agree to disagree. To make matters worse, if they sense that their getting under your skin, they don't feel remorse but instead feel empowered by it. They love to control situations and people. Don't ever seek validation from them because you're not getting it. To be honest, you don't need anyone's validation. The truth validates the innocent and the righteous. Let them live in their alternate reality. Because eventually, they'll self-destruct.
The light in all of this is that they're not smart about their tactics. They follow the same pattern because, to them, it works. If it isn't broke why fix it? Controlling behavior feels smothering because it is smothering. It's not being kind or loving, it's a method of control.
Once you tell them that you're not following for it, they get mad. It's so predictable.
Smothering, that's it, that's the feeling. Coverts do things to control and go at you if you're 'ungrateful'. They smother you, it's not actual help because they want to, it's to manipulate and gain control and have you doing what they want and does feel like you're being crushed and smothered! My nex and mother both like this.
I have a Hearing today with my malignant narcissistic sister. I soooo wish judges knew what Dr Carter ☀️ knows. Even a fraction of it would do.
Seriously!
I'm wishing you good luck 🤞
You have been going through this for quite some time. Take care ❤
Counselors too!
They do damage to supply that wants out.
How could that help? Judges, don't they make their decisions on the facts presented, not necessarily the people's psychological mindset as those in the psychology field? Hope that made sense..lol😏
PS: don't mind me, I'm curious, and still learning all the above. 🫤
My experience with setting boundaries with Narcs is that the only available solutions with them is leaving the relationship in order to enforce the boundary. They do not subject themselves to respecting any boundaries that don't serve their agenda.
“Our body always knows the truth even when we’re not ready to face it.”
-Kerry Kerr McAvoy, Ph.D.
My gut tells me. I get a sick nausea when I am around toxic people.
They should be , their mind is confused beyond reason . They also like chaos , especially if it's their creation .
Narc said she was confused instead of being accountable, they created the chaos. She said she doesnt have the freedom to speak, really? That s the problem, we don t have the freedom to our business, always a double standard. She s a horrible sil, meddling, gaslighting, crazy making chaos, blameshifting, etc. How come your not talking to me?,Duh? Or saying some people you just get. We don t meddle in their life, or pick on her husband because shes extremely competitive. No one can have the spotlight on them always her. Always projecting competitive, yet its her.Entitled because they re older and have a role in the family, which is a narc meddler, no thank you. Our role is to be on receiving end of gaslighting and know it all criticisms directed at us. Had enough,nothing wrong with dividing ourselves with evil
They lovvvve chaos. And they feed on the confusion, frustration, and pain that results in their subjects.
They absolutely enjoy and love chaos when they create it.
I lived this nightmare like many others. Thanks for this conversation ❤
It makes sense a narcissist can go into a rage then a few hours sleep like a baby because the narcissist released some of their inner rage, which gives some temporary relief from it. Normal people wouldn't be able to sleep because doing that wouldn't give them temporary relief since they don't have an inner rage problem. Normal people wouldn't be able to sleep after going into a rage a few hours before bed because that would increase their adrenaline and stress hormones, causing their thoughts to go a thousand miles per minute.
Next to God
Dr. C, you sure get me thru some very difficult days
Thank you for having this platform
Thanks so much!
Dr. C, thank you for sharing your valuable knowledge, and Dr. M was so helpful too! On the subject of boundaries, if a covert narcissist doesn’t follow your boundaries, I don’t understand how and why we need to set them. I realize now I should have divorced my husband long ago, but now almost 70 years old and married 25 years, financially I am afraid I would not be in good shape. 😢. I think having my dogs in my live (no kids) made me determined to make our marriage work, but of course it didn’t. I love seeing Gus on the sofa!
Thank you Dr. McAvoy and Dr. Carter! I admire the two of you so much. Indeed, my problem was that I didn't think like a narcissist. And was nearly clueless that anyone else thought like a narcissist. I feel like I am waking up from a bad dream.
If you gain power you lose the love..... narcissits are all about gaining power... they can't love the other
They don't love period. It's ALL FAKE!
Thank you both for all of your help & wisdom!
Btw I love this interview, it’s very natural and unforced and you are not interrupting or talking over each other - which happens in like 99% of these sorts of videos and drives me nuts! Great content too, very relatable and informative!
Thank you so much!
Dr Kerry said something that is "so me". She said, she would open up to people, until that person would do something to hurt her, and then she would pull back. That's what I do too. But Dr. Kerry said, we should instead take relationships one step at a time. Such wise advice. I used to say, "I'm an open book, until that person betrays me. After that, I will never confide in that person again. I won't treat them badly, I just won't be chummy with them ever again, because they have proven themselves to not be trust worthy."
But I think Dr Kerry's advise is a much wiser approach.
Trusting is very difficult after……
TEAM HEALTHY 💖🎉😊
Excellent! I’m listening to this a few times to let it sink in.
The boundary piece is tricky. I have boundaries and can speak up gently when needed (without getting defensive).
I’m learning that my reaction of not responding (indifference and ignoring them) to their bad behavior speaks louder than giving the narc ammunition to retaliate…. I kind of just treat the narc like she is an idiot and I don’t have time for her and stay in my joy. But overall I truly just stay away or keep it short from the narcs. (Family). If this sounds confusing - so sorry! 😮😅😊😮
I wish I had seen this video about 37 years ago. The irony of some of this is just mind blowing the description of the circumstance concerning the vehicle wow in the relationship that I was in just dating at the time the person said that my brand new vehicle was not safe, and I should turn it in and I just happen to be so needy and trusting that I did that and wound up with an old clunker that would stall in the middle of the intersections. There were many many red flags, but coming from my own brokenness, I could not see it, thank you so much for these videos
I'd never thought of it that way. Something to think about, do I feel safe in the relationships I have with those I believe are narcissistic. The answer would be nope! Very helpful to give me some peace of mind over the utter confusions they all but one especially shoves my way! They're as flaky as hell, critical and do things for me where it feels like im chained to them rather than true respect and giving. More like I did these things and "after all the things we do for you", so you have to be grateful and do what I want you to do. If I'd known there was this huge price tag I would have said no thank you!
Two of my faves again. Love this collab!
Great way to look at a relationship right from the get-go. If they can't apologize, or have their whole self tell'm to get and go!
Great conversation!! Thanks so much! ❤
Remember that NO ONE can read our mind or has the right to define us. We cannot control them. Only ourselves. Claim ownership of you and start the journey out of their realm. See you on the other side.
Someone who tells you what to think is a huge red flag.
Thanks for that delicious brain snack. I appreciate you. 🌺
It's one of their moves to peer closely at you, start sneering or smirking, and declare loudly that they know what you're thinking and to start reacting to those thoughts. It's how they create a nasty narrative in a fit of (Academy Award-worthy) acting with disgust and outrage at you. It's a declaration of war, really.
@@Greenwings701 Yes! Their nonverbal communication says much!
Darn I missed another live interview. Still got the replay, thankfully. Cheers.
They often are looking for "volunteers" for charitable projects. They need others to do the work. That way they set up the dynamic of very easily bossing folks around. They do it with great ease as community "leaders."
should people just then refuse to be bossed around ?
Her words,"i dont really care if you make it to the end"....WOW! SO TRUE.
Thank you both! I often wonder where I would be in life without learning about narcissism through the videos you provide. Recovering, surviving, forever altered by what happened to me. Team Healthy and videos such as these reaffirm that we are on the right road, heading in a positive direction. Thanks for leading the way for me.
I'm literally steps away from leaving my covert narcissist mother. When I talked to her about my moving away her only response was along the lines of she didn't want me to leave because there won't be anyone at her house to serve her.
22:07 "You feel like there's two persons you are living with." Yes, this. So much, this.
Thank you Dr. C. Excellent Information! Thank you for your support to those of us who have lived and survived so far, and we continue to need direction on this journey to know how to navigate the "Minefields"...
I think they intend to get every ounce of whatever you got to use for their own benefit. Everything of any remote value, material, psychological, social - everything. They are not satisfied until they believe they've got it all. They'll make odd declarations as such. (Think about the non-sequiturs they've left you with.) They also exact the cost of your un-spinning your head for a while after you have been in their presence. They are like a slam on your equilibrium.
Slammed & Slammed. 😢
They absolutely enjoy seeing you and making you be in pain....I've listened to things they said, making remarks that "You will fail, wait and see".....they plan to harm others.
I just a heard a song that fits being with one. The day that never comes.😢😢
Dr C, the alligator story is it! So true in my case. His father was an alligator and so is he, and in his opinion, he is a great alligator!
My nex's financial and personal affairs, his home, his truck, etc., were all always in disarray. I've wondered if they think that way too?
Mine was the opposite & super neat to the point of OCD
Mine was like that too. JBP says yes-absolutely a reflection of what’s goion inside
@@Hatbox948 always a mess. House was a mess, couldn't even get into his car, and he was 40k in debt (with no college degree).
@@Drea40 That's how mine was too. When you'd open his truck door, all kinds of trash would fall out.
From experience, I know it is true about the intense confusion. Observers are unlikely to understand why you don't just do this or do that. You become afraid to ask for much needed help.
Lol! “Love You More””- made me laugh out loud. So true!
That's one phrase you'll NEVER hear a narcissist say!
I agree with her ending questions except “Are they showing up?” The narcissist I dealt with always showed up when he needed to make sure intermittent reinforcement would eventually work to his advantage. He showed up big time for the big things and found a way to “seemingly” show up for the small things. It was the in between that he chose to check out, coast, or completely dismiss. For me one of those questions to help others recognize the chaos is- “Are they being consistent with who they say they are and who they really are? Does their character line up with their behaviors?” I wish I had realized sooner- when the answer to that latter question is “no,” you are dealing with a narcissist and they will never change
Great thoughts, KellyJean. I really enjoyed this interview. Glad it stimulated some good thinking!
Also i appreciate the profound comment you shared at the end "boundaries with narcissists is just so they know what buttons to push". I have come to this conclusion as well after unfortunately dealing with more than one narcissist. You really cant share anything about yourself with them
This was absolutely tremendous, Thankyou to you both for this, More truth's and exposure, Self trust is a must and don't care for their reactions to truth, I'll keep shining my light and getting educated, I'm going to be doing a course on domestic abuse, I look forward to it, Peace, love and respect to you both and Gus and everyone, Thank you universe, All Glory and smiles to the most high :-)
Thank you for sharing your thoughts and experiences. God bless you both. ❤
Thank you!
Yep, sounds like my story... wow
Great Conversation. Divorcing a Nasty Covert. 40 years of not knowing what was going on. It's been so challenging and mind boggling. Information such as this add some sanity to the insanity.
The amount of RIDICULOUS, OUTRAGEOUS, and DANGEROUS situations my narc parent put the family in over the years is so over the top that I seldom tell anyone about it outside of my counseling sessions because it makes ZERO sense. And nevermind talking to the narc about it, that just opens up the door for more craziness. Not worth the trouble for me, I'm loving from a SAFE distance and making no apologies for it.
The movie compliance comes to mind. I listened to everything my mother said because she got me to the state where I was dependent on her. The manipulation is so subtle, a few words, some suggestions, getting me doing what she thinks I should be!
My mindset is "never again".
I learned it is arrogant to think we need to deal with it. They depend on it.
Someone I knew was really friendly and at first people liked her but pretty soon you are babysitting her kids but she wasn't babysitting yours. Etc.
Push back vs support is 🎯
So helpful!!
In the beginning my friends Narc would NOT ALLOW her to open her own doors. If she tried he would become furious. His "cover" was that he was being a "chilverous manly protector." He was hiding his Narc under the cover of protecting her. He acted as if her were a" Giver" but in fact he was really a "taker". So it all boils down to; are they a "GIVER" or a "TAKER! " However in the beginning stages they always come off as a "GIVER". That's where the confusion comes in. She would not listen to me, and to our heartbreak, he went on to viciously absue her and her her beautiful baby boy. In his case..his anger (over the doors) gave him away..but she overlooked it because of the "role" he was playing...
He is a child himself. When the baby arrived he acted like a jealous sibling. He can not be a parent!
Professor Sam Vaknin explains this well.
I think it is overlooked in this conversation.
I understand the situation with your friend. She was deeply confused by his actions.
I find that most Religious Narcissists will do that.
They come off as all Caring and Attentive and Giving and Invested in Your Well being at the Beginning.
But, once they've got you invested in Them and Their Agendas and Upholding their narrative, They become Takers.
They cross more and more boundaries and make more and more demands of you with expectations of no resistance on your part.
They go from False Givers into Egotistical Takers.
The narcissist I was in a relationship with is actually a mental health therapist. The mind games and manipulation were next level.
Don’t forget there are single people dealing with these difficult issues
Wow. Human relationships are difficult.
Dr. C, at about 34:23, Dr. McAvoy says "Or is it feeling really out of balance and like you're trying to take care of and save them in order to save yourself?" I would really love to know more about that dynamic.
A very timely discussion. ❤
Boundaries to a narcissist is for them to know what button to push!
In addition…here’s another thought:
It’s like having a car crash. Who walks away unscathed? And who goes to the hospital with injuries?
Can you guys please have another interview soon?! I love the synergy between you both, so balanced and wonderful. Thank you for this interview, I have gotten so much from it. I Will listen again soon. While listening I just felt blessed to be with other people who care about this subject so deeply and care about how we treat each other and how to do better and be better. Also, to understand we are separate, and together, we can have patience and empathy but we can not go down to where the other person is. We have to have a strong sense of ourselves first and look after ourselves. I really like that segment, it would be good to talk some more about that aspect if possible at a later stage.,So much in this interview, jam packed with amazing content. More brilliant days for all of us here at Team Healthy! Blessings Dr C/my surrogate grandfather Les! I did say, my grandfather‘s name was Les and he was such a wonderful man as well.
When you have to mention to your partner “ you have never been curious about who I am at my core and what’s brought me to where I am today” RED FLAG
I think I believe he knew what he was doing... yep, moved into domestic violence, sure did... he was definitely ill & tried to take me down... & certainly have no trust in men now
❤Thank you ❤
Thank you for your conversation 😊
Doc, your question at 17:22 says it all. I ask this question to myself constantly.
I really enjoyed this collab! So much i listened to it twice in a row, hope hear more in the future. Thanks guys❤
Sorry I was tapping this out on the exercise bike and it looks like it. But really that was very insightful and informative. The conversational flow was fantastic. I could listen to you two on a regular weekly Podcast.
I really appreciate dr Kerry mcavoy's sentiments! I have come to these same conclusions. Christian values are amazing and I live my life by the standards in the Bible, however as a woman you must understand that the man you partner with must hold himself to the same standards you do. Otherwise you will constantly be sacrificing "me" for "we" and guess what, if you're with a narcissistic abuser--there is no we. They are already cheating on you, probably not supporting you and actually actively working towards your downfall
I purposely did organizing over the summer to make it less available for certain people to cause confusion. If it's not in a help desk ticket I won't be attending to it.
At 12:25 She mentioned an interesting study about domestic violence from the book "How he gets into her head". Good insight here. Please do some further research.
When they are creating that confusion they are pretending to be such good listeners only up until they find an excuse to the the harm which they already before that pretend listening was going on.
I love this session. Thank you so much!
How do you get over the brain fog. It’s weird because you can’t believe people would do these things. You were in a play and had no idea they were playing a roll.
@@ReRe_642 It (the brain fog) will get better with time.
Absolutely true with me about Jekyll and Hyde.
This is so quotable and relatable.
I relate to this interview. But now that I am in the 'KNOW' my relationship is far less painful this way! Understanding what reality is with these sick people helps us get healthy, heal and regain our self and our sanity.
So you have found a way to lead a separate life in ways?
@@Summer_Harvest Yes in certain ways. Put some distance in the areas of your life that pull you in too much and trap you into thinking you 'need' them. Grow in your friendships with healthy others.
@@a.pepper6687 if I can ask; Did you go into couples therapy or just stand up and set your boundaries?
I have a family who are starting to put some pieces together. Since becoming an empty nester it is things are becoming more coercively controlled.
@@Summer_Harvest After many decades living with my spouse in all of the confusion that goes along with a narrisist, I found Dr. C. None of my therapists in the past caught it or suggested it. In my youth living in a 'sick environment' of people, I understood at a young age they were sick and realized I might become sick, too. I did; I had severe depression. I suppose my past therapists had a legitimate reason for not grasping the toxicity of my home life in my youth and those who treated me in my adult years. Getting a strong understanding of the true situation, facing it, grieving for it, then moving on emotionally, if not physically separating ourselves from the offenders is life changing. We must grow to believe and trust in ourselves, and I HIGHLY recommend a relationship with my Lord and Savior Jesus Christ above all!
Thank you
yup, exploitive is the word.. I had a coworker who would get people to help her out, and then just dump them or even turn on them. She would always hang out upstairs where the managers are, for no reason… and sure enough within literal weeks she had a senior manager boyfriend. She later dumped him and got with someone else & had a son… well guess what now they’re not together either. She’s a real piece of work!!
Great content, UA-cam won't allow me to like it, so I wanted to leave a message and say thanks for this content and conversation.
Glad you enjoyed it!
That was good, Dr. C. Even the Carrie Underwood slip, 😅. It makes you real. ❤
Dear dr. I'm from the middle east and it is not easy to understand the scientific expressions .but your knowledge is so precious
I suffered many years with a narcissist psychopath.
Still the arabic channels is weak in defining those people
Would you please translate your videos to Arabic like Dr berg????
True...they wear sheep clothes
Yes, they hide their nature.
My mom dies and he gets angry at me. I have a miscarriage and he gets angry at me. Negative support.
I always think an issue is the narcissist woos our own remnant narcissistic traits, and that's how they can be really compelling
I also think narcissists have some kind of pathological failure avoidance - they can't see themselves as failing or being wrong, even a little bit. This means they will use the most ruthless and scheming approaches, because they can't see anything wrong with them doing those things - they don't self correct because they'd have to see themselves as being slightly wrong in order to self correct. Possibly this doesn't apply to the malignant narcissist, they've started to truly agree with doing bad things, rather than being pathologically blind to doing bad things. But I wonder if I'm being too charitable in this model of narcissism, so I'm open to being argued otherwise.
The dance step is great , until the other never takes accountability
It was shocking to hear that “all relashionships start from the angle of “How can I convince you to like me?” This is not true!!! It’s very sad when victims are blamed for what they are not guilty of! I wonder why Dr Carter didn’t say anything to that… (
They know what they are doing
Is it a mental illness? My friends spouse always goes at her with I gave you everything. But not what she wanted respect empathy and a conversation with him without him becoming hostile and verbal abuse.
They just take and take and take...
Intentionally eaves dropping in restaurants. A type of stalking. I don't mean with me but with everyone else so they have a one up on them.
Hi so much you are saying is resonating with me. I’m living with my 24 year old son. He is so abusive and volatile. He screams at me and calls me abusive names nearly on a daily basis. Family have told me to chuck him out. I can’t as he’s my son and I love him. But I just don’t know what to do, how to talk to him. Any advice would be so appreciated
More like "get out of my way. I come first" attitude.
Definitely they don’t care and rather happy to be contemptuous putting their innocent family in danger been in fire since he decided l am not worth be alive plenty of sickening evidence before the courts why on earth is this person far from humanity
love don henessey!!
My ex told me that his father died when I first met him. It felt strange, I couldn’t understand why he would tell a total stranger. I later saw him tell multiple people he met. His father passed when my ex was 14 he was 34 when we met?
If you know the works of Professor Sam Vaknin, then you know that a narcissist basically is a little child inside. So look at them like you would look at a child. You know how irrational a child can be? Also how cute, funny and adorable?
I come to the conclusion that you just have to love your narcissist. That‘s all he wants.
But be like a caregiver. Set clear boundaries and repeat them until it is heard and accepted.
If you lead by good example, they will follow.
We are evolving beings and I grew a lot with my so called narcissist.
And one more point. I am an evolutionary astrologer.
Our horoscope show so many karmic, past life patterns.
And when you mention that they mirror us… we have this reflected in our horoscopes.
We actually are astrological twins.
So, we belong together, no matter how narcissistic he acts.
This gave me a lot of security and I stopped doubting his or my sanity.
And he is learning astrology now too and we get a much better understanding of why things happen the way they do.
Love is the strongest force in our universe.
This is truth.
in an ideal world, we would not have narcs or have any associations with these people. But that's in an ideal world. I am so fed up having to deal with these narcs, they just don't change at all.. Dr C you sound very hoarse, problem with your throat at all.?
I've been dealing with acid reflux. We're working on it!!
It seems to be hanging on. Hopefully he'll be better soon.
@@SurvivingNarcissism Try a teaspoon of apple cider vinegar in a cup of hot tea with honey once a day.
It's crazy I be getting set up done went to jail got people attacking me people are shooting at me my gf is missing and the narcissist has her im trying to help her but can't find her it's a lot more but I can't talk about it. I'm being stalked is this real I don't know what to do.