For those of you that have asked: While my new company is considerably more 2A friendly, my job regularly takes me places where carrying a firearm is still problematic or flat out illegal. Here's what I normally carry during the work day: ua-cam.com/video/APLdMj2Lmi4/v-deo.html
My workplace is on a federal lease property. Therefore I cannot carry, so that's that... I take my chances of being a sitting duck target (is not like active shooter events don't happen there) in order to have a paycheck. I also know people that park their cars somewhere else and walk, or bike, inside, but I am too lazy for that.
So I left a very long and detailed explanation, of what I might do if my workplace started acting like yours. And UA-cam decided to completely delete it before it was posted. I'm not writing it down again, but just know that I would remain invisible to upper management until I could make my escape to another job. that's in a nutshell. Basically follow their rules leaving your firearm at your vehicle, and make your Escape as soon as possible.
I am really curious about the search. Could you have legally refused? Did a Cop do it or just some security guard? I feel like i would rather be fired for refusing search, but was this an option?
Dude, you didn’t have any friends. “i’ll just find xxx person and he’ll get us out” was straight up a passive aggressive tattletale. THAT person is who you underestimated. Never talk guns, politics, or religion at work with anyone.
Do you think the person that made the comment intended for Alex to get fired? I bet that person thought they were just making a funny throw away remark and felt horrible about what happened because of it.
I almost got fired for a box cutter. I opened a box at a Christmas party, and HR sent an email to my boss's boss. They compared me to 911 hijackers. This shit does NOT get talked about enough. If you get labeled "The Gun Guy," everything you do is highlighted. Thanks for sharing, brother.
@P. Tiesti just that easy? Uproot your entire family, start over professionally, force your spouse to walk away from their career, and tell your kids they'll never see their friends again.... seems reasonable If someone is young, single, and/or unencumbered might be more realistic, but that's a really dismissive take.
Sadly, the "Workplace Violence Policy" at most places equates to "No employee shall be afforded the ability to protect themselves from workplace violence."
There shouldn't be any Workplace Violence, but danger of active shooter, costumer, & ppl should feel safe to & from home or car. Bosses want to feel in control or they can't handle it for many reasons, & if someone has a gun they feel like they don't have power over u, so u should never think guns are ok to even talk about, but also political.
Best defence for workplace violence is to make a good example of the initiator of the violence. It's always worked for me. But it has always been with my fist, at work and I have always taken it off work grounds.
All I can say is: Concealed Carry means exactly that. I don't talk about it in the office. I never tell anyone I am carrying. I don't give anyone reason to suspect I am carrying. I make sure I don't print at all everywhere I go. Essentially I adopted a 'Trust No One' attitude with my Concealed Carry status. It's unfortunate that this happened to you. People can suck.
I may not have articulated it well in this video, but I'm certainly not someone for whom concealed carry is a major aspect of my personality, especially in social situations with a lot of unknown variables. That said, I'd been to the range with co-workers at that point, so it was a shared interest. I'd be willing to venture that the person that actually complained to HR didn't know me personally. Why? Because everyone that did was shocked at the results. The overwhelming feedback I got was "if anyone's going to be armed in that office I'd want it to be you" I'm guessing the concern was less about me and more the individual's hoplophobia.
Yep. My idiot brother couldn't help showing off his Walther PPKS in his cool James Bond shoulder holster. I learned a lot from my big brother. How to NOT be like him.
I mostly agree... ill talk about whatever... but then just simply lie, "I would never carry at work" I still really wanna know where he works... he got illegally searched. Lawsuit??
@@jlinka79 I disagree. Generally speaking, i dont think they should be allowed to limit your right that way, and you have no moral obligation to follow unjust laws
@@jlinka79 after doing a little bit of research (a while ago) that does not seem to be true, you cannot sign your rights away. Even if a cop was called and showed up, they still have no right to search you (given these circumstances). You can simply refuse, deny entry... then they can ask u to leave, and you have to do that... then u can sue them(i understand that hardly works out) but at least then, the story is that they tried to violate you, not that you got caught with a gun
Wow. At my last job I recall a non gunner saying the same comment to me, and I immediately said "don't look at me, company policy is no guns, you're on your own." Wonder how close that would have been to an issue. Thanks for sharing.
@@TheSuitedShootist I want to communicate what I'm trying to communicate correctly. my workspace, my desk, my locker, the computer I work on, they all belong to my employer. MY clothing, MY car and certainty MY PERSON do not and I'm willing to lose (really quit) my job over that principle. I might even let them search my car and after they found no Contraband in it then I'd quit.
@@coyoteblue9733 totally understood. I'm not trying to suggest that boundary is anything other than your own. I just don't want people to be under the impression that refusing the search will result in a different outcome, so that everybody can plan accordingly based on their situation.
@@TheSuitedShootist I'm an 18 dollar an hour security guard. My income wouldn't be hard to replace. I'd like to THINK my principles would remain if I was pulling down 250K plus benefits a year but since I'm not I'll never be sure. Having said all that, I would refuse the search with the full knowledge that it would cost me my job and I don't want anybody that's reading this exchange to think differently
I worked at a place where a guy got fired under very similar circumstances, had him do the perp walk and everything. Then the senior management enumerated their "zero tolerance policy" regarding firearms in the workplace... I said "so if someone wants to bring a gun to this office in order to protect themselves in a rare, worst case situation, we can lose our jobs, but if someone wants to bring a gun to kill us, the potential to loose their job is supposed to stop them?" They had no response to that other than to shrug and say "well, thats the rules"....
Lol yeah, it's like what are they thinking, that a shooter will show up, see the sign that says "Gun Free Zone" and just go "OH, DARN, I CAN'T BRING MY GUN IN THERE TO SHOOT UP THE PLACE, GUESS I HAVE TO GO HOME." Fucking ridiculous.
@Bosingr the thing that seems to get overlooked here is that it was the shift in office culture that created my problems. At the start it wasn't an issue. How can someone predict that sort of shift? Just assume it'll happen?
@Bosingr True, but it is good to pay attention o the words of the losing side. One shift and it could have been the winning side. I think of this too in politics, Oklahoma is something like 40% Democrats and California is 40% Republicans.
Here's our chance to be wise. And thanks for sharing that experience. I can feel that it was a traumatic life event and for something that many bought into without much foresight in what the costs of this opportunity can be.
Sucks to go through that, but take pride. You're obviously a high IQ, high value person that they didn't deserve to have. I once interviewed for a high paying web dev job at a prominent tech company. Was offered the job, but rejected the offer after learning of their "no tolerance" weapons policy. Two weeks later they suffered a workplace shooting. Refusing to comply is part of the high value minds going on strike. My wife and I adopted a minimalist lifestyle to secure our options.
An employer that treats you that poorly for a gun is eventually gonna find another reason to treat that poorly. In the long run it was a good thing you got out. It amazes me that people bag on the military for how it treats people yet some civilian jobs are so much worse.
THIS is how a man handles business. Things did not go well or fairly, but he takes accountability and responsibility. Thank you for taking the time to share. I wish you the best of luck.
If someone else wrongs you, it's kind of Stockholm-y to say "it was my fault" and then hold that self-victimization as "manly." No, he got fucked, and it wasn't his fault.
Fairness is subjective. There’s nothing unfair about firearms restrictions on private property. We are confronted with rules, daily. Rules are rarely “fair” but they exist for everyone, whether you like them, or not.
HR is where the SJWs and other toxic NPCs tend to cluster. Most companies run best when those turds keep a low profile and stick to their record keeping and clerking. When they aggressively try to mold the company image and "culture," nothing good ever comes of it.
I bet they felt real good about themselves. Of course we all know that sort of policy is doing nothing to protect their workers, but it's all about the warm fuzzies and the illusion of control.
Hopefully karma never comes back to that office, in the form of a armed disgruntled employee. That snitch would be regretting that they got him fired. But, I guess they wouldn't have to live with that regret long, just the rest of their life.
@@roguedefensefirearmsllc6194 They won't regret it. They'll likely see both individuals in the same light. They'll believe mroe firmly that they shouldn't even employ gun owners because, look what happens!
@@roguedefensefirearmsllc6194 No need to go that far. Which Senior Employee(Manager,TL etc etc) do you think would dare to talk loudly at a person when they know they're carrying?
@@calholli I hope people start suing for having their rights infringed upon at work. The 2A rights are treated as non- rights and we've let it go too long. Is it a right to keep and bear or not? If it's a right, that right needs to be given the same weight others are given.
It took some guts to make this, but it just as easily could’ve been a story about getting fired for making an off color joke, or asking a coworker out. Losing a job under any circumstance has serious ramifications. If you hadn’t met your quota for a couple months and were fired, would this video still have the same tone? Would not meeting your quota be “the worst mistake of your life”? Alternatively, if you had lost the cosmic lottery and actually needed your firearm but not had it due to policy this would be a video about how the worst mistake of your life was not carrying against policy, much like the Luby’s Cafe story. The old cliche “it’s not the odds, but the stakes” does have some merit. It honestly sounds like you’ve been brow beaten into believing that carrying your firearm was somehow immoral, irrational, or selfish. Your opinion is valid, and I doubt I could change your mind, but your story sounds less like “gun nut who couldn’t be without his beloved smoke wagon”, and more like “Gina Carano gets fired for tweeting a controversial opinion”. As in, the immoral action was your employers, not yours. I only write all of this because it’s obvious that you are very deeply ashamed, and I hate seeing a good man beat himself up.
I sincerely appreciate the concern. I will say that the emotion in this video isn't my day to day reality. Overall I've come to terms with what happened, and honestly the only guilt I feel is because it was (in my mind) a stupid, unnecessary risk that I took too casually because I thought I was smarter than the other guy. I was arrogant, and that made me careless. To your point about "odds not the stakes", while at its core the statement has merit, as with many quips within our space it's been abused to the point of being a reductive talking point (in general, not directed at you specifically). The reality is that it's BOTH. We balance odds and stakes regularly. The Risk Matrix does a good job of visually representing this idea: www.armsreliability.com/content/Document/Blog/Risk-Matrix-1024x550-1024x550.png Because of the number of interpersonal interactions in that office, the likelihood of getting discovered was considerably higher than the chances of experiencing workplace violence that would necessitate a firearm. Even if getting made was only "Possible" (right in the middle of the scale of probability), the significant impact of the loss of income and professional reset makes the overall risk "Medium High". While the consequences of experiencing workplace violence and lacking a firearm are without a doubt higher (severe instead of significant) the reduced likelihood still makes the risk fall into that same "Medium High" category. So if they're both in in the same "weight class" so to speak, which does it make more sense to mitigate?
@@TheSuitedShootist Thanks for the courage and the strength to relate the details. I hope it makes self scrutinizing easier for the viewers. Good luck!
Remember that this does not have anything to do with immorality, irrationality, or selfishness. It has to do with responsibility, and Alex hit the nail on the head. In an ideal world employers will allow us to carry small arms to defend ourselves in the instance of an active shooting incident, but in this case the management of his employer changed and their policy was no firearms. It was his responsibility not to take a firearm to work, and therefore he was irresponsible and was punished for it. He's ashamed because he knows he had to willfully bring that gun into work - same way that you can't accidentally make a baby - and that the fault lies on himself and himself alone, even if gun culture is partially what motivated him to do it. But even if what Alex did was not the right thing to do in that situation, I would still say he is a good role model because he accepts his mistake and he's trying to teach others not to make the same mistake themselves. We as individuals should hold ourselves accountable for our actions and be a good role model for others to follow.
I don't believe it's responsible to bend over to gun hating companies politician's or the average person. Period. I mean seriously. Because many churches don't allow you to carry government buildings work places basic stores. Seriously where does it stop. If people bend a knee Everytime then before you know it the only places will be allowed is at home. Even then they are trying to stop anyone from having them. He didn't do anything wrong. He was a victim of idiotic policy. To a degree he was at fault. But only to the degree that a black man is at fault in 1960 for drinking from the wrong water fountain. His actions were not wrong the policy was wrong. And yes I bet it was hard on his wife but I find it stupid to think someone would leave you just based on one rough patch. Theirs no love in that marriage if someone is willing to jump ship when the waves get rough. He lost a job. I mean really sit back and think about how insignificant it really is. When you marry someone in the the vows their isn't a clause that says untill death do us part....or if yearly income falls beneath 20k. I know it had to suck but it's only a small chapter of the big picture. And he worked diligently to get back on his feet. Granted I wouldn't have ran to a job where you need to build clients but at least he pulled himself up. I just hate to see someone beat themselves up for holding true to what is right and working hard to make it work out. Company policy shouldn't overrun the constitution and the laws of the state. Period.
To Alex - We aren't born enlightened, and mistakes will happen in life. As bad as it was, it could have ended up much worse, so be thankful for what you have and where you are. And thank you for putting yourself up as Exhibit A.
You give an important perspective but its still important to point out that its is completely morally wrong to deny people the right to self defense and then take 0 responsibility for when they are harmed or killed the way that corporations and governments do throughout America.
Thank you for sharing this story. My employer lists “no firearms on premises” in the rules for employees. There was a credible threat from a now former employee and that policy has been changed. No one knows who has one, but people have felt a bit safer since.
I wish more workplaces were like this. I am unaware of any companies aside from the usual gun store, security company, LE, etc that allow employees to be armed. It is a constant pain in my rear.
This is a great perspective, thank you! Even for people that still decide to carry, I think these are great points for everyone to chew on and plan accordingly.
Brother, we 2A gun people appreciate you sharing your story. Take aways: 1, don't work for anti gun companies, 2, don't submit to being searched which the company didn't have the right to do, 3, at that time say to company, what are you doing and if you disagree then say I'm resigning as of right now and leave with your stuff immediately, 4, don't be so hard on yourself because you aren't the only person this stuff happens to, 5, your wife stuck with you because she loves you and understands what you did and there wasn't a need to forgive you, 6, everything happens for a reason and if you and your wife can get through something like that then you can get through pretty much anything in life together, 7, find a job where guns are allowed, not easy to find but they are out there, or be self employed, 8, don't change your views on firearms, the anti gun people need to change their bullshit rhetoric because the people buying guns during the pandemic were people that were against guns, hypocrisy if its their life in danger. In other words, I can have a gun but you don't need a gun or have to prove to me why you need a gun, 9, life is all a risk but you are still alive and lesson learned, so do what makes you and your family comfortable, 10, trust no one except your wife in this case because she kept her wedding vows to stay with you through good and bad times and for richer or poorer in other words, if this bullshit situation didn't happen you would have never known how devoted and loving your wife is to you and thats priceless. Better than any job or gun.
@@willconrad3069 I can’t believe how little faith he has in his wife. If you truly believe that loosing a job will cause your spouse to leave, than I would suggest really thinking about if that relationship is the right one.
@Dark2light The only issue I have with what you said is that bit about finding a pro 2a company. Do you have any idea how hollow that sounds? Do you have any idea how tired people are of hearing "just go find a better place to work"? I know you said it was hard, but do you realize just how freakin' hard? I am unaware of any company outside of some private security companies or gun stores that allow for personal carry on the job. And in my opinion, neither private security nor working at a gun store is sufficient to support a family. In fact, it's so hard to find these magical pro 2a workplaces that I have essentially given up on ever finding one, and I strongly suspect that I'm not the only one. It doesn't help matters that you usually can't get the company weapons policy before you apply (at least in my very limited experience), so you never know what you're getting in to.
@@thetallone7605 dont blame the messenger. Nothing in life is easy. I understand how things are in the gun world. Thats why Ideally, don't work for others, work for yourself. A company isn't going to invest in you like you are going to invest in yourself. It's a dog eat dog world and that applies to anything in life not just the gun world. Make no mistake, it's a cruel world.
I thought you accidentally shot somebody!. I was married, owned a nice and had a small child. We had 2 nice cars and a sportbike. I was a GM for a popular chain restaurant. I decided to buy a restaurant. I qualified for an SBA loan. I used the equity in the house as collateral. Any way the previous owner cooked his books. He owned a catering company. Long story short it didn't work out. My wife was pregnant. She secretly got an abortion, divorced me. We let the house go. I got a job and had to pay a week's salary in child support. Things happen. Don't be so hard on yourself. It sounds like you have a wonderful wife. This is far from the worst story I have ever heard. You made a simple mistake. A horrible story would be like you went out with your co-workers to happy hour and drank to much and on your way home got in accident and killed somebody. That is a major problem. Relax. You didn't break the law you broke a company policy.
My heart goes out to you. I discuss this topic at least twice a month with clients / students when they ask my opinion on corporate policies this this. Odds of something going wrong and needing the gun are pretty slim. Odds of getting disciplined (to include getting fired) for breaking policy are much higher. Unfortunately, it is a decision that every person needs to make on their own. There have been places where I've had to lock my sidearm in a safe in my car before I enter a facility. But that is why I keep an anchored safe in my car. Policies can wreak havoc on folks for the wrong reasons. Glad you made it to the other side of this.
I injured my foot in 2019 and have just gotten back to work THIS year, my wife held it down while I was on work comp. It was absolutely hell to watch her hold down the house for our family. It was the absolute worst thing I’ve ever experienced. Not being able to help provide was demoralizing. I was just thinking of “what’s the worst that could happen” mentality, carrying at my current sales job to protect myself and I needed to see this video. It is terrible working for a company who doesn’t allow someone to protect themselves but would be even worse to lose my job and everything I’ve built, to lose it all and put my wife in that situation again. Thank you for this video. I hope things have gotten better for you.
Hey man. I commented and watched this video years ago when it came out, and it was the main reason I stopped carrying my gun at work. I was actually searched today at work after a similar interaction that you mentioned in your video happened to me and im glad to say I was not fired and they even apologized for bothering me at work. It’s the best job I’ve had and im glad I didn’t throw it away just for a lifestyle. Especially when the building already has good security. Hope you read this. You saved my job basically
I never took mine into the office. It stayed locked in my vehicle, in a hidden, locked safe. Not one person I worked with knew I even owned guns, let alone a conceal carry. I pretended to hate weapons, and even the people that I considered good friends, had no idea. Your inability to keep your mouth shut caused your grief, plain and simple. So, your appropriate precautions should have included, as #1, would have been not telling anyone. Sorry that happened to you, definitely a learning experience for sure.
I admire you greatly for putting this out there. Definitely something that people don't talk about enough. People talk a lot about how they break their corporate policies because of "my 2A rights". That's great and all but you've shown what really happens when you risk your job and possibly your professional reputation. Everyone assumes they'll just go get another job but maybe its not easy. It's very important for people to listen to this.
@@TheSuitedShootist when a spouse commits adultery, it's worse. When a spouse abandons another spouse, it's worse. When a spouse keeps the kid/kids from the other spouse it's worse. When a spouse commits abuse, it's worse. When a spouse molests the kids, it's worse. I promise I'm not trying to be a dick here, but I worked a homicide where a father murdered the mother of his children, in front of those children, by slitting her throat. Need I go on or do you still think your job loss is the worst betrayal that one spouse could commit?
@Kevin_85907 That's 100% valid. Some of those understandably never crossed my mind as consideration. I don't think you're being a dick at all just offering perspective, which I greatly appreciate. I suppose I could have expressed it a little better, but as mentioned it wasn't really anything I cared to revisit more than once.
I have a couple buddies that go with me places sometimes and know I carry. In non permissive and illegal environments, such as university (where I don't carry), they have at times asked me "hEY bRo YoU GoT yOuR gUN???" *purposely* loud enough so others in the room can hear. They think it's cool that I carry, but don't understand the problem they pose (even when I'm not carrying). The last few times this happened, even in permissive environments, I quietly asked them to cut it out and not ask again. It's very important, when you have friends around you that misunderstand your situation, that you quickly shut down their desire to do this, even if it may seem harsh.
My reply when I’m in a non-permissive environment and someone says that is “don’t look at me, I’m not allowed to have a gun so I’ll be hiding behind you.”
Not an easy video to make for sure. Props to you for doing it. I think this is an invaluable story. We never hear about this stuff. Depending on the job, depending on the facility.... maybe. But I'm going to a gun shop full time next week, so there's that. 🤣 I respect you a great deal for having the testicular fortitude to post this, and for recovering from this. Shout out to supportive spouses. Don't beat yourself up too much. I'm sure you would have done it for her.
Amen to that - I remember the first day of my job when I learned about their no-carry policy was the last day I ever carried there - not saying I'm any better because I've taken all kinds of other stupid risks that I've had to learn from, but I think the point is that a vital component of becoming a mature adult - especially one with a family - is not becoming too myopic toward the variety of risks that pose themselves to you and being able to properly categorize them in their potential of occurrence to potential damage and available mitigations - sure you could die in an office building at the hands of a shooter, but you're more likely to die from a variety of other types of threats in that building and you probably have better odds of hiding from a single crazy person with a gun in a corporate office than you do of hiding from the co-worker who thinks they have a reason to believe that you have a dangerous ideology of some kind.
@@davidkeetz So you are ok with some company taking by fiat your Constitution 2A Right? You will make a good goose stepper when the time comes. You don't deserve to be protected by The Constitution if ypu are so willingly and easily give it up!
@@fuzfire yah, because they have a constitutional right to no quarter and there could be an originalist argument that by me being the "militia" and without permission quartering myself and my guns on private property could be an infringement of their constitutional right. Of course, for my job, I was able to work from home eventually so it became a non-issue and going forward, I would make every attempt possible to work for a location that didn't have this rule. The same way you might go to a different restaurant if the first one you go to has a "no guns allowed" sign. The same way if you owned a restaurant and you were a christian and a gay couple wanted you to cater their wedding - it would be your constitutional right to refuse service on grounds of religious belief. Don't get all gung-ho to yell about your own constitutional rights before examining if there is any hypocrisy in your outcry. That's how we got to where we are in all of this.
@@fuzfire you must be a joy to work with. Breaking your terms of employment, that you agree to when you take the job, is not something protected by the constitution. It is the same way they can fire you for saying stupid things, your right to free speech is does not protect you there either...
I respect you for not only sharing the story, but also taking responsibility for what happened. I’m glad your family stayed together and hope that good things happen for you.
Unusual video and a very frank take for the gun community. This one hits close to home. Nobody really wants to talk about when something like this happens to one of “us”. It’s all about prepared when 15 ISS fighters kick down the door at the mall. Training and gear is sexy. Making hard decisions that may influence your life and that of your family for the wrong reason is very sobering. Glad to hear you are back on your way back.Thanks for sharing.
And those 15 ISS fighters -- and the Chinese ones and the cartel ones and and and.... have ALL already arrived! The meat-puppet Resident has invited -- and PAID to bring in (using OUR money!) literal a couple hundred thousands (and more!) "military-aged" men from a variety of countries who have reason to hate Americans! What does one do when those fighters start shooting up the mall and you have your FAMILY with you! PLEASE stop feeling self-critical for doing the CORRECT thing, even if you paid for it painfully. How MUCH more would you wife be destroyed if you had been SHOT because you QUIT carrying! You "fault" was NOT in CARRYING! It was in letting ANYone you worked with know about it! A CONCEALED carry is concealed! NO ONE -- including your friendly coworkers -- should know. Your advice is now EMOTIONAL -- not reasoned! Hey! Your HOUSE didn't burn down! Your kids didn't die! GET over it! You made a mistake, you PAID for it. It's over, it's done! Straighten up, STRENGTHEN up, and move on!
Nice to be retired. After the Army I always carried at work. My father was shot in a robbery at work when I was 7 years old. After he semi recovered he never went anywhere without a j frame. It left an impression.
Sorry this happened. The biggest mistake here was off body carry. I am also here in texas and I work in a place where some buildings are legal to carry and others aren't. I dint always know where I will be so I use a smart carry holster and a small gun at work. I never carry off body for the reason you described. The safest place for a gun to be in a nonpermissive environment is on your body carried in a deeply concealed manner.
We can Monday morning quarterback the situation all day, and different folks will say different things were "the biggest mistake", but that completely misses the point of the video. The choices I made were my own, and there's no point in dwelling over what should have been done differently. I just want people to truly appreciate what's at stake, what can happen and how, so that they're less flippant & dismissive when discussing this scenario.
@@TheSuitedShootist so true. Thank you for the video. Also, I greatly enjoy your content as I also work and carry in a business attire environment so I like going to your channel for ideas.
Common requirement in most employment situations. Many people accept that and other serious restrictions of rights to work there ( or keep working there when policies change). Be aware of the rules when you accept a job. If/when you break them, termination may be your BEST possible outcome. Could be felony charges or even possibly a nervous guard/cop shoots or kills you. Your insurance won’t pay out here either so your family is doubly screwed.
Others mentioned that the company requires permission to sort. Better to quit or be fired for refusing search than let them smear you as a dangerous gun nut
@@poseyk01 funny thing? I wasn't smeared. My coworkers were supportive, and shocked at how things transpired. But because the HR team came from the corporate office, there was no allowance for any discretion
@@TheSuitedShootist that’s one small good thing. You would have a case if they smeared you but they have the lawyers to outlast and outspend you. They don’t care who’s right just who can win via lawfare and endless motions and filings to tie it up for years.
When my organization made it apparent that they were newly anti-gun. I decided that I couldn't afford what unfortunately happened to you and worked immediately on becoming self employed. It took several months to accomplish but I never carried against company policy. I did pre-stage a Gerber guardian under a drawer in my desk via a magnet. I'm glad you came out okay and thanks for your guidance.
I just found this channel. Wow. As active duty military who carries everywhere legally possible, I have close friends who ask if I would carry on base. Absolutely not. It's my livelihood. I'd get court martialed (worst case) and lose my job. My family would have no income, no health insurance, and I'd potentially catch the equivalent of a felony and be unable to own firearms again. Major props to you for being honest and holding yourself accountable.
I never tell anyone that: 1) I have a gun, or 2) That I support the 2nd Amendment. My co-workers think that I’m an ordinary, plain, non-vigilant person. I will let them keep thinking that. I don’t expect the sheep to understand the sheepdog - much less the wolf.
Thank you for sharing your story. Its is an important message to put out there for new lawful concealed carries and the gun community as a whole. I am also in sales and use to work in tech in San Francisco. (I don’t think I need to explain just how anti gun of a place I was working in) I never talked about anything having to do with guns, knives, or anything related. Most of my coworkers where soft soy boys so I stood out as being “tougher”but that was about it. I was in my early 20’s at the time, not married, and I figured if I got caught I could start over, even a new career if needed. Now I am in my mid 20’s and the company I work for is 100% work from home. So now I can have my gun on my desk as I work! I am just grateful I was never spotted. Thanks again for sharing!
This very thing happened to me. I commend your courage in sharing this story. At the time I was devastated as I had to go home and tell my wife that I was fired for carrying at my job. I was a former cop. People think they are prepared for what could happen but they don’t know. My solution was to find an employer where this was not an issue.
@@TheSuitedShootist bounced back with a more fulfilling job, yes. Like you allude to though, irreparable damage done to the marriage. Justifiably, she’s yet to fully forgive. That’s a factor I never considered and I’m hoping others will after listening to your experience.
Thank you for sharing. I can't image how that felt. I carried in suits in another business and had to not attend several major business conferences due to the searches at the venue. People started to notice. I had to decide which way to go. Luckily, I had another business to fall back on. Hated losing the income but we survived ok. Thanks for the honesty.
Good video, gained a sub. I like your analogy about likening carrying to gambling, I've had similar thoughts myself the few times I've carried at work and would only do it when I felt like the threat level was high enough to justify the potential consequences.
I began a second career w/the USDOJ after my ‘97 retirement from LE. Carrying a gun was a fireable offense but it was a damn good job so I left the gun at home for almost eight years. DOJ had its own armed security made up of mostly retired cops, many of who I got to know on a first name basis. They all said they’d look the other way if I wanted to carry into the building, and after hearing your story I’m glad I made the decision not to carry. I’m fully retired now and do as I please. Thanks for your honesty and I sincerely hope things have turned around for you.
Dude, so much respect for making this video. I’ll never think the same when I hear someone say, “better to have it and not need it” or some stupid shit like that. I’m guilty of that same mentality until just now hearing your testimony. For what it’s worth, your situation has carried some serious gravity for a lot of people, myself included, who haven’t considered the “other side” of what carrying against company policy can weigh. As another point, i can’t imagine how guilty that HR department rep would feel if there was an active shooter situation at that company after your termination. I hope you haven’t been discouraged from carrying otherwise.
Liability insurance policy is a big part of this problem. There is a big push by insurance companies to scare employers into disarming their employees.
You got made because you worked with people that knew your secret. With that said, I disagree with your stance but I appreciate you making the video. Some people do not fully understand the risk and should not carry if they can't handle the consequences of getting made.
This is certainly an individual thing, and there's no singular right answer. I greatly appreciate the fact that you're able to disagree in a civil, articulate manner.
@@TheSuitedShootist Yeah, not much of that going around currently. Go to a forum like Reddit, where I am assuming the average age to be 16-25 mostly males with very limited life experience. No logic or civility. Just certainty of their rightness of opinion. You make a needed argument to be considered by those who are hot to cowboy up without counting the cost if something goes sideways. That and are you ready to kill. If you hesitate and won't kill to save your own life forget packing. You're already dead if confronted by an armed assailant as he disarms you and shoots you with your own gun before stealing it to shoot someone else.
They knew they were searching for a gun... and if he started making moves, going towards his stuff, and ignoring commands it could be easily construed as something worse.
Thanks for telling us about your ordeal. Certainly, it is a reminder to all that in the end, we stand alone in our actions. I actually stopped carrying for a long time when I realized how much is stacked against the peaceful but armed citizen. Besides having to conceal very carefully, besides having a split-second to make a correct decision in an emergency, and besides having to be discreet about something as innocent as telling someone you went to the range when asked what you did during the weekend, your troubles are just beginning in the unthinkable event you actually have to protect yourself or your family. The legal issues that can follow a self-defense situation are enough to destroy you, your family and your finances. Again, I thank you for baring your thoughts and for speaking out. Perhaps someday, the pendulum of reason will return to a range of fairness.
Thank you for this video. I work full-time armed work now, but before I was a retail manager, and then a freight broker, and in those instances, I always weighed that risk out. Various firearms instructors always hit me with the "What if you get caught without it?" line, and I scoffed because it's easy to hear from someone who isn't me (and doesn't have to deal with the consequences), has LEOSA (as lots of them do) or because they own their own business, who will fire them?
This video has given me a lot to consider. I've only just gotten a concealed carry permit and have been considering carrying in a non permissive work place that's lax in its enforcement of most policies. Thank you for showing what can happen when things go wrong, I know this must have been a hard video to make.
I spent 42 years in industry with 3 different corporations, all of them had a zero tolerance policy with regar to firearms on the premises. The last company was actually run by gun enthusiasts and hunters, BUT, the zero policy was still in force. I didn’t agree with it in light of what was occurring in the world at large but determined that my job and my family’s sole income was not worth my challenging it as defensively impractical, so, I never carried at work or kept a firearm in my vehicle. Fortunately, it worked out. Now, I’m retired and a firearm goes with me everywhere I go.
Respect for being honest, taking it like a man, giving a sober assessment (even with the whiskey it is a sober assessment), and giving a dose of realism to the keyboard 2A warrior chest-bumping that you see a lot online and at anything gun-related.
Sorry that happened to you and yes you are right loose lips sink ships. That being said I risk the same consequences of being fired but I also don't have anyone that depends on me. For what it's worth a hospital I made service calls to had a disgruntled patient come in and eliminate four people, three of them uninvolved with him so to me it's worth it. If you have armed security at you job and metal detectors maybe it's not. Either way I'm glad you told your story bro.
I absolutely do NOT bother with carrying at work. The HR bureaucrats are a probabilistically greater threat to my life and property than any random shooter. I’ve thought through your exact scenario playing out in my own life. I’m sorry you learned the hard way and I hope things turn around for you soon.
A man's first priority is providing for his family. Protecting it is a tie, but if you can't provide, you can't protect. Our greatest enemy is our own ego. Second is "it can't happen to me" - ism. I'm a fervent 2A supporter, but I'm also a former Army by the rules kind of guy. Where I work has the legal signage posted on the doors preventing carry. I'm in the medical field, so it's just how it is, and with good reason (in theory). Good content, good psa, excellent video.
appreciate the vid my man. haven't seen your content before but this gave me the feels. what you went through is horrible and honestly this shouldnt be a thing in america anymore seeing as how insane society has gotten. I personally won't work somewhere where personal protection is frowned upon, but I don't make a shit ton of money either. Best of luck man you'll get back to where you were if not surpass it. One luv
Clearly you learned a hard lesson and bravely sharing with everyone so we don't make the same mistake. I live in California and worked a government job, a coworker brought into the locker room a AK to go to the range after work. He did show it off and word made it to management. He was escorted off worksite and told not to return until further notice. Luckily, the supervisor and foreman were gun enthusiasts. He got a verbal warning and came back right away. You live in Texas the most friendliest gun state, that should not have happened to you. You should have been given the same treatment as coworker in California.
Ideally, however each business gets to write their own rules. I try not to dwell to much on what should have happened, just learn from it and adjust accordingly.
@@TheSuitedShootist our agency had in place a written no firearms allowed in the workplace policy. He could have been fired. I am grateful that the management took into account his intentions. He didn't think it safe to secure his gun in his car while at work 8 hrs and trusted it better in the locker room made sense. He was a veteran that served our country, that was also considered. He was a exemplary employee also considered. We have a lot of veterans working that would vouch for him and our Union never had to defend him and agreed with management that a verbal warning was appropriate. Although our state is gun control crazy, we look out for one another and are reasonable in regards to fairness.
Thank you for mustering up the courage to share this. It's a story people need to hear. From my observations moderating one of the largest self defense channels on UA-cam, few people have given the topic the amount of careful consideration it deserves.
Thanks for you story. You have to be very brave to share this. I carried at work for a little bit and decided it wasn't for me. There's just too much on the line.
My company has a zero tolerance for employees carrying firearms in the office. Unfortunately, I am the security guy that has to escort them to their vehicles.when they get caught. I get security reports from all offices, there has been more people caught and fired for bringing in personal guns into the office space than any *deadly force* situation where an employee having their own firearm would have helped them. Granted my situation is not normal, where we have an active armed security team that does train for "active shooter response" but we have had 0 active shooters and probably 6 people losing their jobs and income for violating the company's weapons policy. I don't agree with the policy, but it is what it is. People need to realize that they are more likely getting made with their firearm than ever needing it. Thank you for sharing your experience.
Feel free, like I said I work at a unique place were active shooter training is taken seriously by the security department. I should also add that fire, tornado, and medical incidents are drilled at offices and have dedicated teams of people to do things. Unfortunately, all of this at most places is just a 2 hour PowerPoint that forgotten 2 minutes later.
@@shanek6582 better to have it and not need it though... right? It's no more absurd that the notion that me saying anything that cloying me construed as anti-gun. I never said "don't carry" I simply said "weigh the risks"
This story is really heart wrenching and it may sound cliche, but really changed my perspective on this topic. I am so sorry that had to happen to you and I appreciate you putting this out there. Stay safe man.
Lessons learned to be sure. It 100% sucks. That said, it could have certainly been worse. I've jokingly said for a while "Setting a bad example still counts as setting an example". Well I'm nothing if not consistent!
It took a lot of courage to share your story and it brings a true perspective for everyone to consider before deciding to carry a firearm when your employer is against it. Every person must decide for themselves whether or not they should put their ability to provide for themselves.
My takeaways: 1. Keep your mouth shut. 2. Assume the worst not only can happen but will. 3. Living in a "civilized" society has additional dangers than simple physical harm. 4. You're incredibly courageous to share this.
That was one of the most powerful videos I have ever seen on UA-cam. Thank you for making it. You put it in a way I think it easy to understand. I am very sorry this happened to you. Hearing from the man who has been there and lived it makes it more believable. Anybody who watches this and gets themselves into trouble, only has themselves to blame. I appreciate plain talk. Keep up the video making. God bless.
@@Mythicregard it's actually my infinity bottle, so it's got 1-3 oz of Evan Williams BiB, 4 Roses Single Barrel, Noah's Mill, Evan Williams Single Barrel, Buffalo Trace.... and a bunch of other stuff
Randomly came across your video and it’s definitely a gut punch. Your anguish is familiar after some recent career turmoil myself. Good on you for putting this out, raw emotion and all. I’m a single dad and had a few years of real employment hardship in a white collar field and am still trying to dig myself out of the hole, even though I landed a good job again. Can totally empathize. Some hard lessons for me though it’s not been in a situation like yours. Hope you are able to work through it, heal up, and be able to make things up to your wife. Good luck!
Thank you for sharing your experience. There are a lot of good takeaways / learning points from this video for everyone to adopt. I used to work for a company who’s security was a joke but was located in an area that became infested with homeless vagabonds and addicts. One actually approached me aggressively in the business parking lot and security did nothing but “observe and report”. Everyone has to assume your own risks for, weigh their own odds and minimize them as best they can. Another thing to mention is that, if you actually had to use your firearm defensively, overzealous prosecutor would absolutely use corporate disobedience to paint you as dangerous and reckless in court.
Damn, bud. Thanks for sharing your story. This is a serious conversation that needs to be had. Real consequences warrant serious conversation beyond cliché and semantics. There are so many bridges to cross and forks in the road when getting employers to respect our right to defend ourselves. Say an incident DOES happen on a company's watch and people die as a result of their feel good check in the box security dropping the ball... Shouldn't they be at least partially liable for wrongful deaths due to an underwhelming response? I am glad you're starting to recover from this. Glad I found your channel. Subscribed.
@@TheSuitedShootist Thanks for the response! Having some reliable standard of security better than a mere 30 minute active shooter class feels like a decent step early on in the process. Many of us carrying have had much more threat training than your average minimum wage security rover, and their capabilities cannot even compare to some of us. It would be difficult to convince me that somebody else is more capable and credible than myself for defending myself. This may also be linked to liabilities and insurance for the company? I guess it could be any number of things. Have a good one. Looking forward to your next video!
I used to carry on my college campus, back before it was illegal in my state for people with CCWs. I, too, tended to carry off body in a bag during this time. I knew I'd be expelled from the University if anyone found out. I chose to carry anyways because I had already been subjected to interpersonal crime on my way home from campus once, and because I was willing to have to finish up my studies somewhere else on the small chance that I ever got found out. Now, when I got out of college and got an office job at a place where there was a no weapons policy, I decided that I would comply with the policy. It was different for me in a professional, rather than academic, setting because my livelihood relied upon me remaining employed. Hearing this story helped reassure me that I've been making a reasonable compromise. I know it wasn't an easy video for you to make, but I appreciate that you did. I'm glad that you're doing better and are on your way to getting back to where you once were. Best wishes to you and your wife.
May I share this on my business' FB page please? I interact with MANY new shooters, and this is a great reality check. I also squirm with all the bravado that seems to be rampant in the 2A community. Thank you for this video.
Alex, please dox the employer. I want to make sure never to patronize their business. Just use replacement cipher or the name rhymes with so and so. Even though they were within their rights to let you go per policy blah blah blah. The struggle is real...
Thanks for sharing man. I'm lucky enough that my primary job is a local shop where we all carry, but my second job (basic retail) is like yours where they would fire me in a heartbeat. I only started carrying at my second job this year there this year when the riots were happening, decided to keep doing it when I discovered how easy it was to conceal and decided it was worth the risk of losing the job since if I decide I still want to have a second job I can easily get another like it, not like you Sales field or any other specialization. Subscribed.
@@TheSuitedShootist Indeed, it does not. They have absolutely ZERO legal authority to execute a search of your property. The worst they can do is leverage your employment, to gain your consent. They MAY NOT search your property without consent. If they believe you to be in possession of something that constitutes a crime, then they need to call the police, who DO then, have the legal authority to search your belongings.
@@jtubef8620 As a general rule, if an employer informs their employees that they are subject to personal searches, and they comply as a condition of employment, the employer can search your personal property.
I won’t go into details, but I been robbed at gun point 2 times and I had to use my gun to save someone being attacked. I will never be without my gun. I am lucky to be alive. I can replace a job, but I can’t replace my life. If we were face to face, I would give you details but not publicly.
Everybody has to make that call for themselves. I won't presume to dictate someone else's risk tolerance, I just want people to truly understand what's at risk on all fronts. Too many people dismiss this as either unlikely or easy to bounce back from.
@@TheSuitedShootist depends on where you work and how valuable the job is to you I agree that in your case the risk to a good career is just not worth it for the protection from an unlikely event. in your case i would have just locked it in my car. ive carried in places not allowed before too and still would if the personal risk is low. i don't have to carry at work anymore anyways because for me work is a gun factory lol you get a funny look from the boss if you dont have a gun in your hand.
Much respect for you for doing this. Risk assessment is something that can change based on a number of factors. As you mentioned, starting over in our field and life stage was much harder to do, than say being single and living in a big city where you can do blue collar, armed security. I'm glad you and your wife are getting through it. Thanks again. You were brave to share this story but don't be afraid to reach out for charity as well. Plenty in the community would support you.
No there isn’t. You don’t understand how rights work. I have free speech and can say my boss is an asshole who gives blowies for a dollar but I’ll still be fired. Rights apply when dealing with the government not private entities.
@@ferretsmiles rights apply when we're dealing with each other as well. A person can claim a rights issue with another in court. The judge or jury decide if the rights of one or another have been violated. Constitutionally enumerated rights are the ones that usually deal with the government violating them bc the Gov is specifically directed not to violate them in the document that creates the Gov.
Depends heavily on the state. Texas has some of the loosest worker protections in the country, so it's particularly unlikely there. Pretty much the *only* chance is if they aren't allowed to search his private property, and keep in mind that the bill of rights only says what the government can't do to you, not your employer.
When you are at work on company time and especially company property...you are not in a free world situation...it's part of the agreement when you get hired anywhere that you can be searched as well as your vehicle.
It is really easy to be angry over something like this, but it takes humility to understand what you did wrong, and to take responsibility for it. It's easy to be macho, but harder to be ethical, so kudos to you for that.
Tough subject and kudos to you for being so candid about a dark chapter in your life. Getting my ccw and debating how I would even carry during my commute. Even leaving in the car in a safe is a dicey proposition with my workplace climate. A guy that works as part-time Leo was harrased because he kept his duty vest in his car. Some nervous douche equated that to firearms in his car which he didn't. They called the cops on him and tried hard to make a mountain out of a mole hill.
Many people fixate on the gun at the ONLY solution. Risk management is a multifaceted subject. Pepper spray is a pretty good option. It's virtually never viewed as a "weapon", and for most of what the average person is likely to encounter that's not DEADLY force. Will it work against a spree killer? Probably not. But I tend to focus more on E&E than I do getting into a gunfight. That's just me.
@@wilfdarr quitting isn't a option and in the Chicagoland area finding a workplace that isn't against or unfriendly to firearms is a moot point. And even asking that question would put a target on me and ring alarms, sirens,bells, and whistles in their sheeple brains. Only option getting clearer and clearer is moving out of state.
@@wilfdarr no argument here. Family firstly and time invested in a job. accrued PTO job is pretty relaxed. The cringe politics and crime sometimes question the importance of the job anyway. Thinking hard about northwest Indiana or as far south as Texas.
Don’t forget, laws change too. In California, they passed the red flag laws. I have never been allowed to carry at work, but many of my coworkers know I am one of the “gun guys.” I never worried because I never brought a gun to work. Now, a coworker can just say they are concerned about me and SWAT will show up at my house. If everything isn’t perfectly in order, it will be a felony charge and instant firing.
For those of you that have asked:
While my new company is considerably more 2A friendly, my job regularly takes me places where carrying a firearm is still problematic or flat out illegal.
Here's what I normally carry during the work day:
ua-cam.com/video/APLdMj2Lmi4/v-deo.html
yes the idea is you don't want to live a vulnerable life
whole & sum total, big picture
My workplace is on a federal lease property. Therefore I cannot carry, so that's that... I take my chances of being a sitting duck target (is not like active shooter events don't happen there) in order to have a paycheck.
I also know people that park their cars somewhere else and walk, or bike, inside, but I am too lazy for that.
So I left a very long and detailed explanation, of what I might do if my workplace started acting like yours.
And UA-cam decided to completely delete it before it was posted.
I'm not writing it down again, but just know that I would remain invisible to upper management until I could make my escape to another job.
that's in a nutshell.
Basically follow their rules leaving your firearm at your vehicle, and make your Escape as soon as possible.
I am really curious about the search. Could you have legally refused? Did a Cop do it or just some security guard? I feel like i would rather be fired for refusing search, but was this an option?
@@spldrong if the outcome's the same, does it really matter?
Dude, you didn’t have any friends. “i’ll just find xxx person and he’ll get us out” was straight up a passive aggressive tattletale. THAT person is who you underestimated. Never talk guns, politics, or religion at work with anyone.
Beat me to it, that's some slick snitch shit right there.
I may not have addressed it in sufficient detail, but when I started the climate was far more 2a friendly, and evolved over several years.
@@TheSuitedShootist Nah, you did. I'm just saying, trust people as far as you can throw them.
Do you think the person that made the comment intended for Alex to get fired? I bet that person thought they were just making a funny throw away remark and felt horrible about what happened because of it.
@@brianfhorton 100% can confirm.
He feels terrible about it.
What'll really blow some people's minds is that we're still friends.
I almost got fired for a box cutter. I opened a box at a Christmas party, and HR sent an email to my boss's boss. They compared me to 911 hijackers. This shit does NOT get talked about enough. If you get labeled "The Gun Guy," everything you do is highlighted. Thanks for sharing, brother.
That's why I felt obligated to share. Nobody talks about it, so nobody believes it's a possibility.
@P. Tiesti just that easy?
Uproot your entire family, start over professionally, force your spouse to walk away from their career, and tell your kids they'll never see their friends again.... seems reasonable
If someone is young, single, and/or unencumbered might be more realistic, but that's a really dismissive take.
@P. Tiesti much appreciated sir! Glad I have you on the channel.
criminal side of me: "damn where you work at? lol they sound like soft targets".
@@Je3perscre3pers nothing wrong with thinking like a felon as long as you don't act like it.
Billmurray@thinklikeananimalandactlikeone.caddyshack
Sadly, the "Workplace Violence Policy" at most places equates to "No employee shall be afforded the ability to protect themselves from workplace violence."
Very true
What are the actual stats on workplace violence? What constitutes as violence? Or even the threat of violence and against whom and why?
There shouldn't be any Workplace Violence, but danger of active shooter, costumer, & ppl should feel safe to & from home or car. Bosses want to feel in control or they can't handle it for many reasons, & if someone has a gun they feel like they don't have power over u, so u should never think guns are ok to even talk about, but also political.
Best defence for workplace violence is to make a good example of the initiator of the violence. It's always worked for me. But it has always been with my fist, at work and I have always taken it off work grounds.
Today you need an attorney on retainer to defend yourself.
HR exists to protect the company. Not the people.
Often at the cost of good employee's... .. .
It's actually against the rules to snitch on people in some unions.
exactly.. I tell people this. many times both people get let go, especially if there are numerous complaints from 1 individual.
@@charliem9188 I wasn't talking about unions. I was talking about HR.
@@jarrettporst4799 true.
All I can say is: Concealed Carry means exactly that. I don't talk about it in the office. I never tell anyone I am carrying. I don't give anyone reason to suspect I am carrying. I make sure I don't print at all everywhere I go.
Essentially I adopted a 'Trust No One' attitude with my Concealed Carry status.
It's unfortunate that this happened to you. People can suck.
I may not have articulated it well in this video, but I'm certainly not someone for whom concealed carry is a major aspect of my personality, especially in social situations with a lot of unknown variables.
That said, I'd been to the range with co-workers at that point, so it was a shared interest.
I'd be willing to venture that the person that actually complained to HR didn't know me personally. Why? Because everyone that did was shocked at the results. The overwhelming feedback I got was "if anyone's going to be armed in that office I'd want it to be you"
I'm guessing the concern was less about me and more the individual's hoplophobia.
The 48 laws of power are essential reading.
@ideliveredit you are a bond level villen
Yep. My idiot brother couldn't help showing off his Walther PPKS in his cool James Bond shoulder holster. I learned a lot from my big brother. How to NOT be like him.
So you didn't tell anyone in your workplace but if there was a need to search on everyone, you are done for still.
When corporations buy smaller companies and take them over shit always goes south.
Amen
That’s 100% truth! I am currently living through that scenario!🤦♂️
@@dennispartain1559 As am I, unfortunately.
Yup, they fire the good workers who been there for years and hire younger with less skills always asking how to do their work
The point and moral of this story: KEEP YOUR MOUTH SHUT! DO NOT TELL ANYBODY, NOT ANYONE, WHAT YOU DO AND HAVE IN YOUR PRIVATE AND PERSONAL LIFE.
I mostly agree... ill talk about whatever... but then just simply lie, "I would never carry at work"
I still really wanna know where he works... he got illegally searched. Lawsuit??
yup, a gun are like money and VD. It's all okay as long as no one knows you HAVE it!
@@jlinka79 I disagree. Generally speaking, i dont think they should be allowed to limit your right that way, and you have no moral obligation to follow unjust laws
@@jlinka79 without more information this video just proves that he has a big mouth and was illegally searched.
@@jlinka79 after doing a little bit of research (a while ago) that does not seem to be true, you cannot sign your rights away. Even if a cop was called and showed up, they still have no right to search you (given these circumstances).
You can simply refuse, deny entry... then they can ask u to leave, and you have to do that... then u can sue them(i understand that hardly works out)
but at least then, the story is that they tried to violate you, not that you got caught with a gun
Wow. At my last job I recall a non gunner saying the same comment to me, and I immediately said "don't look at me, company policy is no guns, you're on your own." Wonder how close that would have been to an issue. Thanks for sharing.
Yup! At least this way people can't say "that never happens"
Smart reply
I've already made a decision that I will not submit to a search of MY belongings whether there's a gun in them or not.
That's certainly an option.
In many places that can still result in termination.
@@TheSuitedShootist I want to communicate what I'm trying to communicate correctly.
my workspace, my desk, my locker, the computer I work on, they all belong to my employer.
MY clothing, MY car and certainty MY PERSON do not and I'm willing to lose (really quit) my job over that principle.
I might even let them search my car and after they found no Contraband in it then I'd quit.
@@coyoteblue9733 totally understood. I'm not trying to suggest that boundary is anything other than your own.
I just don't want people to be under the impression that refusing the search will result in a different outcome, so that everybody can plan accordingly based on their situation.
@@TheSuitedShootist I'm an 18 dollar an hour security guard. My income wouldn't be hard to replace.
I'd like to THINK my principles would remain if I was pulling down 250K plus benefits a year but since I'm not I'll never be sure.
Having said all that, I would refuse the search with the full knowledge that it would cost me my job and I don't want anybody that's reading this exchange to think differently
@@coyoteblue9733 better to quit in that situation than be fired. Unless you have no savings and need unemployment
Treating adults like children never ends well.
No argument there
Treating children like childrens does not either. I hated being infantilised at 8, i hate being infantilised now.
I worked at a place where a guy got fired under very similar circumstances, had him do the perp walk and everything. Then the senior management enumerated their "zero tolerance policy" regarding firearms in the workplace... I said "so if someone wants to bring a gun to this office in order to protect themselves in a rare, worst case situation, we can lose our jobs, but if someone wants to bring a gun to kill us, the potential to loose their job is supposed to stop them?" They had no response to that other than to shrug and say "well, thats the rules"....
I really hate that attitude. It makes absolutely zero sense.
Lol yeah, it's like what are they thinking, that a shooter will show up, see the sign that says "Gun Free Zone" and just go "OH, DARN, I CAN'T BRING MY GUN IN THERE TO SHOOT UP THE PLACE, GUESS I HAVE TO GO HOME."
Fucking ridiculous.
“Only a fool learns from his own mistakes. The wise man learns from the mistakes of others.”
― Otto von Bismarck
@Bosingr the thing that seems to get overlooked here is that it was the shift in office culture that created my problems.
At the start it wasn't an issue.
How can someone predict that sort of shift?
Just assume it'll happen?
"Good judgement comes from experience.
Experience comes from bad judgement.
And sometimes, that bad judgment can be pretty horrific."
~Val Geissler
I have always heard it said that experience allows you to learn from your mistakes and wisdom allows you to learn from the mistakes of others
@Bosingr True, but it is good to pay attention o the words of the losing side. One shift and it could have been the winning side. I think of this too in politics, Oklahoma is something like 40% Democrats and California is 40% Republicans.
Here's our chance to be wise.
And thanks for sharing that experience. I can feel that it was a traumatic life event and for something that many bought into without much foresight in what the costs of this opportunity can be.
Dude thank you so much. This reinforces the decisions I’ve made on the subject and helps me not doubt them.
Yup. When "the community" beats you over the head with "the right way" that's not contextually appropriate for you it can create a lot of doubt.
Sucks to go through that, but take pride. You're obviously a high IQ, high value person that they didn't deserve to have.
I once interviewed for a high paying web dev job at a prominent tech company. Was offered the job, but rejected the offer after learning of their "no tolerance" weapons policy. Two weeks later they suffered a workplace shooting.
Refusing to comply is part of the high value minds going on strike. My wife and I adopted a minimalist lifestyle to secure our options.
An employer that treats you that poorly for a gun is eventually gonna find another reason to treat that poorly. In the long run it was a good thing you got out. It amazes me that people bag on the military for how it treats people yet some civilian jobs are so much worse.
The military used to treat people as adults, not so much anymore, they get stress cards in boot camp for when they get "too stressed".
@@curtisc2581 Stress cards were a thing for a hot minute. But then got shitcanned when the idiot politicians who suggested them turned their backs.
THIS is how a man handles business. Things did not go well or fairly, but he takes accountability and responsibility. Thank you for taking the time to share. I wish you the best of luck.
Thank you, that's very kind.
If someone else wrongs you, it's kind of Stockholm-y to say "it was my fault" and then hold that self-victimization as "manly." No, he got fucked, and it wasn't his fault.
Fairness is subjective. There’s nothing unfair about firearms restrictions on private property. We are confronted with rules, daily. Rules are rarely “fair” but they exist for everyone, whether you like them, or not.
@@CronyxRavage it was his fault. Owning up to things is part of being a man. I bet you preach “personal responsibility” at every opportunity.
As with most corporate issues, HR plays a huge role in the problem. Shocker.
maybe HR stands for huge role
HR is where the SJWs and other toxic NPCs tend to cluster. Most companies run best when those turds keep a low profile and stick to their record keeping and clerking. When they aggressively try to mold the company image and "culture," nothing good ever comes of it.
I bet they felt real good about themselves. Of course we all know that sort of policy is doing nothing to protect their workers, but it's all about the warm fuzzies and the illusion of control.
Exactly.
Hopefully karma never comes back to that office, in the form of a armed disgruntled employee. That snitch would be regretting that they got him fired. But, I guess they wouldn't have to live with that regret long, just the rest of their life.
@@roguedefensefirearmsllc6194 They won't regret it. They'll likely see both individuals in the same light. They'll believe mroe firmly that they shouldn't even employ gun owners because, look what happens!
@@roguedefensefirearmsllc6194 No need to go that far. Which Senior Employee(Manager,TL etc etc) do you think would dare to talk loudly at a person when they know they're carrying?
@@calholli I hope people start suing for having their rights infringed upon at work. The 2A rights are treated as non- rights and we've let it go too long. Is it a right to keep and bear or not? If it's a right, that right needs to be given the same weight others are given.
It took some guts to make this, but it just as easily could’ve been a story about getting fired for making an off color joke, or asking a coworker out. Losing a job under any circumstance has serious ramifications. If you hadn’t met your quota for a couple months and were fired, would this video still have the same tone? Would not meeting your quota be “the worst mistake of your life”?
Alternatively, if you had lost the cosmic lottery and actually needed your firearm but not had it due to policy this would be a video about how the worst mistake of your life was not carrying against policy, much like the Luby’s Cafe story. The old cliche “it’s not the odds, but the stakes” does have some merit.
It honestly sounds like you’ve been brow beaten into believing that carrying your firearm was somehow immoral, irrational, or selfish. Your opinion is valid, and I doubt I could change your mind, but your story sounds less like “gun nut who couldn’t be without his beloved smoke wagon”, and more like “Gina Carano gets fired for tweeting a controversial opinion”. As in, the immoral action was your employers, not yours.
I only write all of this because it’s obvious that you are very deeply ashamed, and I hate seeing a good man beat himself up.
I sincerely appreciate the concern. I will say that the emotion in this video isn't my day to day reality. Overall I've come to terms with what happened, and honestly the only guilt I feel is because it was (in my mind) a stupid, unnecessary risk that I took too casually because I thought I was smarter than the other guy.
I was arrogant, and that made me careless.
To your point about "odds not the stakes", while at its core the statement has merit, as with many quips within our space it's been abused to the point of being a reductive talking point (in general, not directed at you specifically).
The reality is that it's BOTH. We balance odds and stakes regularly. The Risk Matrix does a good job of visually representing this idea:
www.armsreliability.com/content/Document/Blog/Risk-Matrix-1024x550-1024x550.png
Because of the number of interpersonal interactions in that office, the likelihood of getting discovered was considerably higher than the chances of experiencing workplace violence that would necessitate a firearm.
Even if getting made was only "Possible" (right in the middle of the scale of probability), the significant impact of the loss of income and professional reset makes the overall risk "Medium High".
While the consequences of experiencing workplace violence and lacking a firearm are without a doubt higher (severe instead of significant) the reduced likelihood still makes the risk fall into that same "Medium High" category.
So if they're both in in the same "weight class" so to speak, which does it make more sense to mitigate?
@@TheSuitedShootist Thanks for the courage and the strength to relate the details. I hope it makes self scrutinizing easier for the viewers. Good luck!
@@macmcdougall2695 thank you sir!
Remember that this does not have anything to do with immorality, irrationality, or selfishness. It has to do with responsibility, and Alex hit the nail on the head. In an ideal world employers will allow us to carry small arms to defend ourselves in the instance of an active shooting incident, but in this case the management of his employer changed and their policy was no firearms. It was his responsibility not to take a firearm to work, and therefore he was irresponsible and was punished for it. He's ashamed because he knows he had to willfully bring that gun into work - same way that you can't accidentally make a baby - and that the fault lies on himself and himself alone, even if gun culture is partially what motivated him to do it.
But even if what Alex did was not the right thing to do in that situation, I would still say he is a good role model because he accepts his mistake and he's trying to teach others not to make the same mistake themselves. We as individuals should hold ourselves accountable for our actions and be a good role model for others to follow.
I don't believe it's responsible to bend over to gun hating companies politician's or the average person. Period. I mean seriously. Because many churches don't allow you to carry government buildings work places basic stores. Seriously where does it stop. If people bend a knee Everytime then before you know it the only places will be allowed is at home. Even then they are trying to stop anyone from having them. He didn't do anything wrong. He was a victim of idiotic policy. To a degree he was at fault. But only to the degree that a black man is at fault in 1960 for drinking from the wrong water fountain. His actions were not wrong the policy was wrong. And yes I bet it was hard on his wife but I find it stupid to think someone would leave you just based on one rough patch. Theirs no love in that marriage if someone is willing to jump ship when the waves get rough. He lost a job. I mean really sit back and think about how insignificant it really is. When you marry someone in the the vows their isn't a clause that says untill death do us part....or if yearly income falls beneath 20k. I know it had to suck but it's only a small chapter of the big picture. And he worked diligently to get back on his feet. Granted I wouldn't have ran to a job where you need to build clients but at least he pulled himself up. I just hate to see someone beat themselves up for holding true to what is right and working hard to make it work out. Company policy shouldn't overrun the constitution and the laws of the state. Period.
To Alex - We aren't born enlightened, and mistakes will happen in life. As bad as it was, it could have ended up much worse, so be thankful for what you have and where you are. And thank you for putting yourself up as Exhibit A.
That's very kind of you to say. Thank you for the support.
@@TheSuitedShootist at least they didn't call the cops behind your back and act like you were a threat!!!
@@Wildwestwrangler very true
You give an important perspective but its still important to point out that its is completely morally wrong to deny people the right to self defense and then take 0 responsibility for when they are harmed or killed the way that corporations and governments do throughout America.
Thank you for sharing this story. My employer lists “no firearms on premises” in the rules for employees. There was a credible threat from a now former employee and that policy has been changed. No one knows who has one, but people have felt a bit safer since.
Glad it helped.
I wish more workplaces were like this. I am unaware of any companies aside from the usual gun store, security company, LE, etc that allow employees to be armed. It is a constant pain in my rear.
This is a great perspective, thank you! Even for people that still decide to carry, I think these are great points for everyone to chew on and plan accordingly.
Exactly. Everyone's got their own limits. Just want to make sure there's as much info available as possible.
Thank you sir. You've saved a lot of people from going through the same thing.
Brother, we 2A gun people appreciate you sharing your story. Take aways: 1, don't work for anti gun companies, 2, don't submit to being searched which the company didn't have the right to do, 3, at that time say to company, what are you doing and if you disagree then say I'm resigning as of right now and leave with your stuff immediately, 4, don't be so hard on yourself because you aren't the only person this stuff happens to, 5, your wife stuck with you because she loves you and understands what you did and there wasn't a need to forgive you, 6, everything happens for a reason and if you and your wife can get through something like that then you can get through pretty much anything in life together, 7, find a job where guns are allowed, not easy to find but they are out there, or be self employed, 8, don't change your views on firearms, the anti gun people need to change their bullshit rhetoric because the people buying guns during the pandemic were people that were against guns, hypocrisy if its their life in danger. In other words, I can have a gun but you don't need a gun or have to prove to me why you need a gun, 9, life is all a risk but you are still alive and lesson learned, so do what makes you and your family comfortable, 10, trust no one except your wife in this case because she kept her wedding vows to stay with you through good and bad times and for richer or poorer in other words, if this bullshit situation didn't happen you would have never known how devoted and loving your wife is to you and thats priceless. Better than any job or gun.
Based
Wow thats probably the realist shit in this comment list. A wemon like that is everymans dream thats loyalty.
@@willconrad3069 I can’t believe how little faith he has in his wife. If you truly believe that loosing a job will cause your spouse to leave, than I would suggest really thinking about if that relationship is the right one.
@Dark2light The only issue I have with what you said is that bit about finding a pro 2a company.
Do you have any idea how hollow that sounds? Do you have any idea how tired people are of hearing "just go find a better place to work"?
I know you said it was hard, but do you realize just how freakin' hard?
I am unaware of any company outside of some private security companies or gun stores that allow for personal carry on the job. And in my opinion, neither private security nor working at a gun store is sufficient to support a family. In fact, it's so hard to find these magical pro 2a workplaces that I have essentially given up on ever finding one, and I strongly suspect that I'm not the only one. It doesn't help matters that you usually can't get the company weapons policy before you apply (at least in my very limited experience), so you never know what you're getting in to.
@@thetallone7605 dont blame the messenger. Nothing in life is easy. I understand how things are in the gun world. Thats why Ideally, don't work for others, work for yourself. A company isn't going to invest in you like you are going to invest in yourself. It's a dog eat dog world and that applies to anything in life not just the gun world. Make no mistake, it's a cruel world.
I thought you accidentally shot somebody!. I was married, owned a nice and had a small child. We had 2 nice cars and a sportbike. I was a GM for a popular chain restaurant. I decided to buy a restaurant. I qualified for an SBA loan. I used the equity in the house as collateral. Any way the previous owner cooked his books. He owned a catering company. Long story short it didn't work out. My wife was pregnant. She secretly got an abortion, divorced me. We let the house go. I got a job and had to pay a week's salary in child support. Things happen. Don't be so hard on yourself. It sounds like you have a wonderful wife. This is far from the worst story I have ever heard. You made a simple mistake. A horrible story would be like you went out with your co-workers to happy hour and drank to much and on your way home got in accident and killed somebody. That is a major problem. Relax. You didn't break the law you broke a company policy.
My heart goes out to you. I discuss this topic at least twice a month with clients / students when they ask my opinion on corporate policies this this. Odds of something going wrong and needing the gun are pretty slim. Odds of getting disciplined (to include getting fired) for breaking policy are much higher. Unfortunately, it is a decision that every person needs to make on their own. There have been places where I've had to lock my sidearm in a safe in my car before I enter a facility. But that is why I keep an anchored safe in my car. Policies can wreak havoc on folks for the wrong reasons. Glad you made it to the other side of this.
I appreciate the support.
Feel free to use this as a teachable moment for your students. That's why I put it out there.
I injured my foot in 2019 and have just gotten back to work THIS year, my wife held it down while I was on work comp. It was absolutely hell to watch her hold down the house for our family. It was the absolute worst thing I’ve ever experienced. Not being able to help provide was demoralizing. I was just thinking of “what’s the worst that could happen” mentality, carrying at my current sales job to protect myself and I needed to see this video. It is terrible working for a company who doesn’t allow someone to protect themselves but would be even worse to lose my job and everything I’ve built, to lose it all and put my wife in that situation again. Thank you for this video. I hope things have gotten better for you.
Hey man. I commented and watched this video years ago when it came out, and it was the main reason I stopped carrying my gun at work. I was actually searched today at work after a similar interaction that you mentioned in your video happened to me and im glad to say I was not fired and they even apologized for bothering me at work. It’s the best job I’ve had and im glad I didn’t throw it away just for a lifestyle. Especially when the building already has good security. Hope you read this. You saved my job basically
Wow... that really means a lot, man.
Thank you. I'm glad I could help.
I never took mine into the office. It stayed locked in my vehicle, in a hidden, locked safe. Not one person I worked with knew I even owned guns, let alone a conceal carry. I pretended to hate weapons, and even the people that I considered good friends, had no idea. Your inability to keep your mouth shut caused your grief, plain and simple. So, your appropriate precautions should have included, as #1, would have been not telling anyone. Sorry that happened to you, definitely a learning experience for sure.
It didn't start as a gun-hostile environment.
I addressed that in a subsequent video.
ua-cam.com/video/_39C_oADQu8/v-deo.html
I admire you greatly for putting this out there. Definitely something that people don't talk about enough. People talk a lot about how they break their corporate policies because of "my 2A rights". That's great and all but you've shown what really happens when you risk your job and possibly your professional reputation. Everyone assumes they'll just go get another job but maybe its not easy. It's very important for people to listen to this.
Dude, that is not even close to being the worst type of betrayal one spouse can inflict on the other.
100% agree
Right? I can't imagine ditching my husband over a simple loss of income. Betrayal is purposeful and that's not what this guy did.
It was though. I intentionally jeopardized our financial welfare.
I knew it was a risk, I just grossly underestimated the severity.
@@TheSuitedShootist when a spouse commits adultery, it's worse. When a spouse abandons another spouse, it's worse. When a spouse keeps the kid/kids from the other spouse it's worse. When a spouse commits abuse, it's worse. When a spouse molests the kids, it's worse.
I promise I'm not trying to be a dick here, but I worked a homicide where a father murdered the mother of his children, in front of those children, by slitting her throat.
Need I go on or do you still think your job loss is the worst betrayal that one spouse could commit?
@Kevin_85907 That's 100% valid. Some of those understandably never crossed my mind as consideration.
I don't think you're being a dick at all just offering perspective, which I greatly appreciate.
I suppose I could have expressed it a little better, but as mentioned it wasn't really anything I cared to revisit more than once.
Now you know what its like trying to talk about guns with almost anyone in the UK..
I have a couple buddies that go with me places sometimes and know I carry. In non permissive and illegal environments, such as university (where I don't carry), they have at times asked me "hEY bRo YoU GoT yOuR gUN???" *purposely* loud enough so others in the room can hear. They think it's cool that I carry, but don't understand the problem they pose (even when I'm not carrying). The last few times this happened, even in permissive environments, I quietly asked them to cut it out and not ask again. It's very important, when you have friends around you that misunderstand your situation, that you quickly shut down their desire to do this, even if it may seem harsh.
My reply when I’m in a non-permissive environment and someone says that is “don’t look at me, I’m not allowed to have a gun so I’ll be hiding behind you.”
Not an easy video to make for sure. Props to you for doing it. I think this is an invaluable story. We never hear about this stuff.
Depending on the job, depending on the facility.... maybe. But I'm going to a gun shop full time next week, so there's that. 🤣
I respect you a great deal for having the testicular fortitude to post this, and for recovering from this. Shout out to supportive spouses. Don't beat yourself up too much. I'm sure you would have done it for her.
Very kind of you to say.
That he blames mostly himself, and not the company blows me away. His wife is a saint.
Amen to that - I remember the first day of my job when I learned about their no-carry policy was the last day I ever carried there - not saying I'm any better because I've taken all kinds of other stupid risks that I've had to learn from, but I think the point is that a vital component of becoming a mature adult - especially one with a family - is not becoming too myopic toward the variety of risks that pose themselves to you and being able to properly categorize them in their potential of occurrence to potential damage and available mitigations - sure you could die in an office building at the hands of a shooter, but you're more likely to die from a variety of other types of threats in that building and you probably have better odds of hiding from a single crazy person with a gun in a corporate office than you do of hiding from the co-worker who thinks they have a reason to believe that you have a dangerous ideology of some kind.
@@davidkeetz So you are ok with some company taking by fiat your Constitution 2A Right? You will make a good goose stepper when the time comes. You don't deserve to be protected by The Constitution if ypu are so willingly and easily give it up!
@@fuzfire yah, because they have a constitutional right to no quarter and there could be an originalist argument that by me being the "militia" and without permission quartering myself and my guns on private property could be an infringement of their constitutional right. Of course, for my job, I was able to work from home eventually so it became a non-issue and going forward, I would make every attempt possible to work for a location that didn't have this rule. The same way you might go to a different restaurant if the first one you go to has a "no guns allowed" sign. The same way if you owned a restaurant and you were a christian and a gay couple wanted you to cater their wedding - it would be your constitutional right to refuse service on grounds of religious belief. Don't get all gung-ho to yell about your own constitutional rights before examining if there is any hypocrisy in your outcry. That's how we got to where we are in all of this.
@@fuzfire you must be a joy to work with. Breaking your terms of employment, that you agree to when you take the job, is not something protected by the constitution. It is the same way they can fire you for saying stupid things, your right to free speech is does not protect you there either...
@@davidkeetz I understand your sentiment but the whole militia quartering thing you brought up is a absurd and not really an actual legal argument
I respect you for not only sharing the story, but also taking responsibility for what happened. I’m glad your family stayed together and hope that good things happen for you.
Thank you for the kind words
Amen. Praying for you.
Unusual video and a very frank take for the gun community. This one hits close to home. Nobody really wants to talk about when something like this happens to one of “us”. It’s all about prepared when 15 ISS fighters kick down the door at the mall. Training and gear is sexy. Making hard decisions that may influence your life and that of your family for the wrong reason is very sobering. Glad to hear you are back on your way back.Thanks for sharing.
Thank you for the kind words. I'm glad that people are taking this as a learning opportunity.
And those 15 ISS fighters -- and the Chinese ones and the cartel ones and and and.... have ALL already arrived! The meat-puppet Resident has invited -- and PAID to bring in (using OUR money!) literal a couple hundred thousands (and more!) "military-aged" men from a variety of countries who have reason to hate Americans! What does one do when those fighters start shooting up the mall and you have your FAMILY with you!
PLEASE stop feeling self-critical for doing the CORRECT thing, even if you paid for it painfully. How MUCH more would you wife be destroyed if you had been SHOT because you QUIT carrying! You "fault" was NOT in CARRYING! It was in letting ANYone you worked with know about it! A CONCEALED carry is concealed! NO ONE -- including your friendly coworkers -- should know.
Your advice is now EMOTIONAL -- not reasoned! Hey! Your HOUSE didn't burn down! Your kids didn't die! GET over it! You made a mistake, you PAID for it. It's over, it's done! Straighten up, STRENGTHEN up, and move on!
This perspective doesn't get talked about enough. Thank you for putting yourself out there. Hope it saves folks a lot of pain and heartache.
That's the goal.
I can't take back what happened, I can just try and derive something positive from it.
Nice to be retired.
After the Army I always carried at work. My father was shot in a robbery at work when I was 7 years old. After he semi recovered he never went anywhere without a j frame. It left an impression.
Sorry this happened. The biggest mistake here was off body carry. I am also here in texas and I work in a place where some buildings are legal to carry and others aren't. I dint always know where I will be so I use a smart carry holster and a small gun at work. I never carry off body for the reason you described. The safest place for a gun to be in a nonpermissive environment is on your body carried in a deeply concealed manner.
We can Monday morning quarterback the situation all day, and different folks will say different things were "the biggest mistake", but that completely misses the point of the video.
The choices I made were my own, and there's no point in dwelling over what should have been done differently.
I just want people to truly appreciate what's at stake, what can happen and how, so that they're less flippant & dismissive when discussing this scenario.
@@TheSuitedShootist so true. Thank you for the video. Also, I greatly enjoy your content as I also work and carry in a business attire environment so I like going to your channel for ideas.
The thing about this story that bothers me the most is the fact that they just went through your personal property
Common requirement in most employment situations. Many people accept that and other serious restrictions of rights to work there ( or keep working there when policies change). Be aware of the rules when you accept a job. If/when you break them, termination may be your BEST possible outcome. Could be felony charges or even possibly a nervous guard/cop shoots or kills you. Your insurance won’t pay out here either so your family is doubly screwed.
Certainly didn't sit right with me either.
Others mentioned that the company requires permission to sort. Better to quit or be fired for refusing search than let them smear you as a dangerous gun nut
@@poseyk01 funny thing? I wasn't smeared.
My coworkers were supportive, and shocked at how things transpired.
But because the HR team came from the corporate office, there was no allowance for any discretion
@@TheSuitedShootist that’s one small good thing. You would have a case if they smeared you but they have the lawyers to outlast and outspend you. They don’t care who’s right just who can win via lawfare and endless motions and filings to tie it up for years.
thank you. this changed my perspective. 'the very thing i did meaning to protect my family ended up almost ruining it.' that one line did it for me.
When my organization made it apparent that they were newly anti-gun. I decided that I couldn't afford what unfortunately happened to you and worked immediately on becoming self employed. It took several months to accomplish but I never carried against company policy. I did pre-stage a Gerber guardian under a drawer in my desk via a magnet. I'm glad you came out okay and thanks for your guidance.
I just found this channel. Wow. As active duty military who carries everywhere legally possible, I have close friends who ask if I would carry on base.
Absolutely not. It's my livelihood. I'd get court martialed (worst case) and lose my job. My family would have no income, no health insurance, and I'd potentially catch the equivalent of a felony and be unable to own firearms again.
Major props to you for being honest and holding yourself accountable.
I never tell anyone that: 1) I have a gun, or 2) That I support the 2nd Amendment. My co-workers think that I’m an ordinary, plain, non-vigilant person. I will let them keep thinking that. I don’t expect the sheep to understand the sheepdog - much less the wolf.
Brilliant!
@@ryanoneal8480 lmfao it’s always calling everyone else sheep and then calling themselves a WOLF LMFAO
@@MJ-ck9xk OP was referring to himself as the sheepdog.
Thank you for sharing your story. Its is an important message to put out there for new lawful concealed carries and the gun community as a whole. I am also in sales and use to work in tech in San Francisco. (I don’t think I need to explain just how anti gun of a place I was working in) I never talked about anything having to do with guns, knives, or anything related. Most of my coworkers where soft soy boys so I stood out as being “tougher”but that was about it. I was in my early 20’s at the time, not married, and I figured if I got caught I could start over, even a new career if needed. Now I am in my mid 20’s and the company I work for is 100% work from home. So now I can have my gun on my desk as I work! I am just grateful I was never spotted. Thanks again for sharing!
Thank you for the support.
This very thing happened to me. I commend your courage in sharing this story. At the time I was devastated as I had to go home and tell my wife that I was fired for carrying at my job. I was a former cop. People think they are prepared for what could happen but they don’t know. My solution was to find an employer where this was not an issue.
Exactly.
Glad to hear you bounced back.
@@TheSuitedShootist bounced back with a more fulfilling job, yes. Like you allude to though, irreparable damage done to the marriage. Justifiably, she’s yet to fully forgive. That’s a factor I never considered and I’m hoping others will after listening to your experience.
Thank you for sharing. I can't image how that felt. I carried in suits in another business and had to not attend several major business conferences due to the searches at the venue. People started to notice. I had to decide which way to go. Luckily, I had another business to fall back on. Hated losing the income but we survived ok. Thanks for the honesty.
Yup, we all have to figure out what the right choice is for ourselves.
Good video, gained a sub. I like your analogy about likening carrying to gambling, I've had similar thoughts myself the few times I've carried at work and would only do it when I felt like the threat level was high enough to justify the potential consequences.
Glad you got something useful out of it.
Thank you for subscribing!
I admire the strength to share so publicly what was a very painful episode in your life. You have my respect.
I began a second career w/the USDOJ after my ‘97 retirement from LE. Carrying a gun was a fireable offense but it was a damn good job so I left the gun at home for almost eight years. DOJ had its own armed security made up of mostly retired cops, many of who I got to know on a first name basis. They all said they’d look the other way if I wanted to carry into the building, and after hearing your story I’m glad I made the decision not to carry. I’m fully retired now and do as I please. Thanks for your honesty and I sincerely hope things have turned around for you.
Dude, so much respect for making this video. I’ll never think the same when I hear someone say, “better to have it and not need it” or some stupid shit like that. I’m guilty of that same mentality until just now hearing your testimony. For what it’s worth, your situation has carried some serious gravity for a lot of people, myself included, who haven’t considered the “other side” of what carrying against company policy can weigh. As another point, i can’t imagine how guilty that HR department rep would feel if there was an active shooter situation at that company after your termination. I hope you haven’t been discouraged from carrying otherwise.
Eh, I'm more intentional about my decisions.
Liability insurance policy is a big part of this problem. There is a big push by insurance companies to scare employers into disarming their employees.
It's basic math. Everyone's got a dollar value associated with them, as distasteful as some may find that idea.
You got made because you worked with people that knew your secret. With that said, I disagree with your stance but I appreciate you making the video. Some people do not fully understand the risk and should not carry if they can't handle the consequences of getting made.
This is certainly an individual thing, and there's no singular right answer.
I greatly appreciate the fact that you're able to disagree in a civil, articulate manner.
@@TheSuitedShootist Yeah, not much of that going around currently. Go to a forum like Reddit, where I am assuming the average age to be 16-25 mostly males with very limited life experience. No logic or civility. Just certainty of their rightness of opinion. You make a needed argument to be considered by those who are hot to cowboy up without counting the cost if something goes sideways. That and are you ready to kill. If you hesitate and won't kill to save your own life forget packing. You're already dead if confronted by an armed assailant as he disarms you and shoots you with your own gun before stealing it to shoot someone else.
I’m new to the channel, but this is a great video of humility and caution that we can all learn from. Thank you for sharing. 💜👊
Glad it was helpful!
Thanks for sharing. It's far too easy to dismiss the consequences if we ourselves are not the ones taking the risk.
Precisely.
I personally wouldn't have acquiesced to their request to search me and my property. I would've walked out with my stuff and left.
Sounds like they search both his persona and his workspace simultaneously.
Yup, Live to fight another day
They knew they were searching for a gun... and if he started making moves, going towards his stuff, and ignoring commands it could be easily construed as something worse.
..........either way, I should have contacted a lawyer.
Thanks for telling us about your ordeal. Certainly, it is a reminder to all that in the end, we stand alone in our actions. I actually stopped carrying for a long time when I realized how much is stacked against the peaceful but armed citizen. Besides having to conceal very carefully, besides having a split-second to make a correct decision in an emergency, and besides having to be discreet about something as innocent as telling someone you went to the range when asked what you did during the weekend, your troubles are just beginning in the unthinkable event you actually have to protect yourself or your family. The legal issues that can follow a self-defense situation are enough to destroy you, your family and your finances. Again, I thank you for baring your thoughts and for speaking out. Perhaps someday, the pendulum of reason will return to a range of fairness.
I've never made 20k a year, I've been living as a "good poor" for 30+ years, I carry every single day, no matter what
What's your living situation and what do you do for a living?
@@cooperwallace609 just let him reply if he wants...
Thank you for this video.
I work full-time armed work now, but before I was a retail manager, and then a freight broker, and in those instances, I always weighed that risk out. Various firearms instructors always hit me with the "What if you get caught without it?" line, and I scoffed because it's easy to hear from someone who isn't me (and doesn't have to deal with the consequences), has LEOSA (as lots of them do) or because they own their own business, who will fire them?
Yea, that's the thing that bugs me.
So many people hyper fixate on the worst case scenario that they totally ignore their own reality.
This video has given me a lot to consider. I've only just gotten a concealed carry permit and have been considering carrying in a non permissive work place that's lax in its enforcement of most policies. Thank you for showing what can happen when things go wrong, I know this must have been a hard video to make.
That's exactly why I decided to make this public.
I give you credit for being honest and humble about your experience. It takes balls to man up and lay the facts on the table. You've earned my sub
Thank you Michael. Glad to have you as part of the channel.
I spent 42 years in industry with 3 different corporations, all of them had a zero tolerance policy with regar to firearms on the premises. The last company was actually run by gun enthusiasts and hunters, BUT, the zero policy was still in force. I didn’t agree with it in light of what was occurring in the world at large but determined that my job and my family’s sole income was not worth my challenging it as defensively impractical, so, I never carried at work or kept a firearm in my vehicle. Fortunately, it worked out. Now, I’m retired and a firearm goes with me everywhere I go.
Thanks for sharing. More people need to watch this. Good to hear you were able to come back and share this much needed advice.
Respect for being honest, taking it like a man, giving a sober assessment (even with the whiskey it is a sober assessment), and giving a dose of realism to the keyboard 2A warrior chest-bumping that you see a lot online and at anything gun-related.
People need to be aware of ALL the risks involved, not just the ones that are fun to fantasize about.
@@ahdgugafeknfrkn2318 what message is it you think I'm sending exactly?
Sorry that happened to you and yes you are right loose lips sink ships. That being said I risk the same consequences of being fired but I also don't have anyone that depends on me. For what it's worth a hospital I made service calls to had a disgruntled patient come in and eliminate four people, three of them uninvolved with him so to me it's worth it. If you have armed security at you job and metal detectors maybe it's not. Either way I'm glad you told your story bro.
I absolutely do NOT bother with carrying at work. The HR bureaucrats are a probabilistically greater threat to my life and property than any random shooter. I’ve thought through your exact scenario playing out in my own life. I’m sorry you learned the hard way and I hope things turn around for you soon.
Thank you Rez.
This was a few years ago, so it's well behind me now
A man's first priority is providing for his family. Protecting it is a tie, but if you can't provide, you can't protect.
Our greatest enemy is our own ego. Second is "it can't happen to me" - ism. I'm a fervent 2A supporter, but I'm also a former Army by the rules kind of guy. Where I work has the legal signage posted on the doors preventing carry. I'm in the medical field, so it's just how it is, and with good reason (in theory).
Good content, good psa, excellent video.
Glad you found it useful.
appreciate the vid my man. haven't seen your content before but this gave me the feels. what you went through is horrible and honestly this shouldnt be a thing in america anymore seeing as how insane society has gotten. I personally won't work somewhere where personal protection is frowned upon, but I don't make a shit ton of money either. Best of luck man you'll get back to where you were if not surpass it. One luv
Clearly you learned a hard lesson and bravely sharing with everyone so we don't make the same mistake. I live in California and worked a government job, a coworker brought into the locker room a AK to go to the range after work. He did show it off and word made it to management. He was escorted off worksite and told not to return until further notice. Luckily, the supervisor and foreman were gun enthusiasts. He got a verbal warning and came back right away. You live in Texas the most friendliest gun state, that should not have happened to you. You should have been given the same treatment as coworker in California.
Ideally, however each business gets to write their own rules.
I try not to dwell to much on what should have happened, just learn from it and adjust accordingly.
@@TheSuitedShootist our agency had in place a written no firearms allowed in the workplace policy. He could have been fired. I am grateful that the management took into account his intentions. He didn't think it safe to secure his gun in his car while at work 8 hrs and trusted it better in the locker room made sense. He was a veteran that served our country, that was also considered. He was a exemplary employee also considered. We have a lot of veterans working that would vouch for him and our Union never had to defend him and agreed with management that a verbal warning was appropriate. Although our state is gun control crazy, we look out for one another and are reasonable in regards to fairness.
Thank you for mustering up the courage to share this. It's a story people need to hear. From my observations moderating one of the largest self defense channels on UA-cam, few people have given the topic the amount of careful consideration it deserves.
Exactly. I'm just offering perspective.
Thanks for you story. You have to be very brave to share this. I carried at work for a little bit and decided it wasn't for me. There's just too much on the line.
Everyone has to make that decision for themselves
My company has a zero tolerance for employees carrying firearms in the office. Unfortunately, I am the security guy that has to escort them to their vehicles.when they get caught. I get security reports from all offices, there has been more people caught and fired for bringing in personal guns into the office space than any *deadly force* situation where an employee having their own firearm would have helped them. Granted my situation is not normal, where we have an active armed security team that does train for "active shooter response" but we have had 0 active shooters and probably 6 people losing their jobs and income for violating the company's weapons policy. I don't agree with the policy, but it is what it is. People need to realize that they are more likely getting made with their firearm than ever needing it. Thank you for sharing your experience.
Damn. I can't say that I'm surprised.
Can I quote you on this?
Feel free, like I said I work at a unique place were active shooter training is taken seriously by the security department. I should also add that fire, tornado, and medical incidents are drilled at offices and have dedicated teams of people to do things. Unfortunately, all of this at most places is just a 2 hour PowerPoint that forgotten 2 minutes later.
@@shanek6582 unless you're rolling with plates and a carbine, you don't actually believe that.
Risk analysis is a thing.
@@shanek6582 better to have it and not need it though... right?
It's no more absurd that the notion that me saying anything that cloying me construed as anti-gun.
I never said "don't carry" I simply said "weigh the risks"
@@shanek6582 are you just unable to make an argument without relying on ad hominem attacks?
This story is really heart wrenching and it may sound cliche, but really changed my perspective on this topic. I am so sorry that had to happen to you and I appreciate you putting this out there. Stay safe man.
Lessons learned to be sure. It 100% sucks. That said, it could have certainly been worse.
I've jokingly said for a while "Setting a bad example still counts as setting an example". Well I'm nothing if not consistent!
It took a lot of courage to share your story and it brings a true perspective for everyone to consider before deciding to carry a firearm when your employer is against it. Every person must decide for themselves whether or not they should put their ability to provide for themselves.
Exactly.
I'm not trying to tell people how to live I just want them to really understand what's truly at stake.
My takeaways:
1. Keep your mouth shut.
2. Assume the worst not only can happen but will.
3. Living in a "civilized" society has additional dangers than simple physical harm.
4. You're incredibly courageous to share this.
That was one of the most powerful videos I have ever seen on UA-cam. Thank you for making it. You put it in a way I think it easy to understand. I am very sorry this happened to you. Hearing from the man who has been there and lived it makes it more believable. Anybody who watches this and gets themselves into trouble, only has themselves to blame. I appreciate plain talk. Keep up the video making. God bless.
Very kind of you to say.
It was certainly uncomfortable making the video, but it's something people need to hear.
I'm glad you found it useful.
“What you’re about to hear is a completely true story. There’s been no dramatic embellishments...”
(Pours a scotch)
“...No exaggerations...”
*Bourbon
@@TheSuitedShootist What is it?
@@Mythicregard it's actually my infinity bottle, so it's got 1-3 oz of Evan Williams BiB, 4 Roses Single Barrel, Noah's Mill, Evan Williams Single Barrel, Buffalo Trace.... and a bunch of other stuff
@@TheSuitedShootist Dig it! How do you think EW BIB compares to 1783?
Randomly came across your video and it’s definitely a gut punch. Your anguish is familiar after some recent career turmoil myself. Good on you for putting this out, raw emotion and all.
I’m a single dad and had a few years of real employment hardship in a white collar field and am still trying to dig myself out of the hole, even though I landed a good job again. Can totally empathize. Some hard lessons for me though it’s not been in a situation like yours.
Hope you are able to work through it, heal up, and be able to make things up to your wife. Good luck!
Thank you for the kind words! Good luck with your endeavors as well.
Thanks for sharing your story. You definitely illustrate how important it is to recognize what the greatest threat to your well being actually is.
That's all I'm trying to do: highlight elements that aren't being discussed enough
Thank you for sharing your experience. There are a lot of good takeaways / learning points from this video for everyone to adopt. I used to work for a company who’s security was a joke but was located in an area that became infested with homeless vagabonds and addicts. One actually approached me aggressively in the business parking lot and security did nothing but “observe and report”. Everyone has to assume your own risks for, weigh their own odds and minimize them as best they can. Another thing to mention is that, if you actually had to use your firearm defensively, overzealous prosecutor would absolutely use corporate disobedience to paint you as dangerous and reckless in court.
That sounds like a situation where my preferred response is likely going to be pepper spray.
@@TheSuitedShootist Possibly yes. But I’m the corporate environment typically all weapons are banned. In that case, that included pepper spray.
@@angelobustillos601 that's unfortunate.
Thankfully impact weapons are relatively easy to improvise
Damn, bud.
Thanks for sharing your story.
This is a serious conversation that needs to be had.
Real consequences warrant serious conversation beyond cliché and semantics.
There are so many bridges to cross and forks in the road when getting employers to respect our right to defend ourselves.
Say an incident DOES happen on a company's watch and people die as a result of their feel good check in the box security dropping the ball...
Shouldn't they be at least partially liable for wrongful deaths due to an underwhelming response?
I am glad you're starting to recover from this.
Glad I found your channel.
Subscribed.
Glad to have you
Thank you for the support.
I don't really have a good answer for that unfortunately.
@@TheSuitedShootist Thanks for the response!
Having some reliable standard of security better than a mere 30 minute active shooter class feels like a decent step early on in the process. Many of us carrying have had much more threat training than your average minimum wage security rover, and their capabilities cannot even compare to some of us.
It would be difficult to convince me that somebody else is more capable and credible than myself for defending myself.
This may also be linked to liabilities and insurance for the company?
I guess it could be any number of things.
Have a good one.
Looking forward to your next video!
This video is amazing. 2 years later and your story is still speaking volumes, hope this have been better! And thanks so much for the lesson ❤
I used to carry on my college campus, back before it was illegal in my state for people with CCWs. I, too, tended to carry off body in a bag during this time. I knew I'd be expelled from the University if anyone found out. I chose to carry anyways because I had already been subjected to interpersonal crime on my way home from campus once, and because I was willing to have to finish up my studies somewhere else on the small chance that I ever got found out. Now, when I got out of college and got an office job at a place where there was a no weapons policy, I decided that I would comply with the policy. It was different for me in a professional, rather than academic, setting because my livelihood relied upon me remaining employed. Hearing this story helped reassure me that I've been making a reasonable compromise. I know it wasn't an easy video for you to make, but I appreciate that you did. I'm glad that you're doing better and are on your way to getting back to where you once were. Best wishes to you and your wife.
I appreciate the support and kind words.
May I share this on my business' FB page please? I interact with MANY new shooters, and this is a great reality check. I also squirm with all the bravado that seems to be rampant in the 2A community. Thank you for this video.
By all means. It's here to serve as an example
@@TheSuitedShootist Thank you. I appreciate the effort you put into your videos!
Very kind of you to say.
Alex, please dox the employer. I want to make sure never to patronize their business. Just use replacement cipher or the name rhymes with so and so. Even though they were within their rights to let you go per policy blah blah blah. The struggle is real...
Thanks for sharing man. I'm lucky enough that my primary job is a local shop where we all carry, but my second job (basic retail) is like yours where they would fire me in a heartbeat. I only started carrying at my second job this year there this year when the riots were happening, decided to keep doing it when I discovered how easy it was to conceal and decided it was worth the risk of losing the job since if I decide I still want to have a second job I can easily get another like it, not like you Sales field or any other specialization. Subscribed.
I'm glad you got something out of this.
Thank you for subscribing!
I put together a few playlists on various topics you might like.
They illegally searched your personal belongings without consent... Doesn't matter what was found, that's grounds for a lawsuit.
If it were a government entity, maybe.
The nature of the employment agreement changes that dynamic considerably.
@@TheSuitedShootist Indeed, it does not. They have absolutely ZERO legal authority to execute a search of your property. The worst they can do is leverage your employment, to gain your consent. They MAY NOT search your property without consent. If they believe you to be in possession of something that constitutes a crime, then they need to call the police, who DO then, have the legal authority to search your belongings.
@@jtubef8620 As a general rule, if an employer informs their employees that they are subject to personal searches, and they comply as a condition of employment, the employer can search your personal property.
Distrust. Verify. Remain suspicious.
In other words, trust no one. Even a friend can screw you. Intentionally or not.
I won’t go into details, but I been robbed at gun point 2 times and I had to use my gun to save someone being attacked. I will never be without my gun. I am lucky to be alive. I can replace a job, but I can’t replace my life. If we were face to face, I would give you details but not publicly.
Everybody has to make that call for themselves.
I won't presume to dictate someone else's risk tolerance, I just want people to truly understand what's at risk on all fronts.
Too many people dismiss this as either unlikely or easy to bounce back from.
@@TheSuitedShootist depends on where you work and how valuable the job is to you I agree that in your case the risk to a good career is just not worth it for the protection from an unlikely event. in your case i would have just locked it in my car. ive carried in places not allowed before too and still would if the personal risk is low. i don't have to carry at work anymore anyways because for me work is a gun factory lol you get a funny look from the boss if you dont have a gun in your hand.
Much respect for you for doing this. Risk assessment is something that can change based on a number of factors. As you mentioned, starting over in our field and life stage was much harder to do, than say being single and living in a big city where you can do blue collar, armed security. I'm glad you and your wife are getting through it. Thanks again. You were brave to share this story but don't be afraid to reach out for charity as well. Plenty in the community would support you.
Very kind of you to say.
Thankfully I'm back on my feet, and this ordeal is well behind me at this point.
there's got to be a wrongful termination lawsuit in there somewhere
There should be. We have rights for a reason. One right can't be treated like a non right while others are given weight.
No there isn’t. You don’t understand how rights work. I have free speech and can say my boss is an asshole who gives blowies for a dollar but I’ll still be fired. Rights apply when dealing with the government not private entities.
@@ferretsmiles rights apply when we're dealing with each other as well. A person can claim a rights issue with another in court. The judge or jury decide if the rights of one or another have been violated. Constitutionally enumerated rights are the ones that usually deal with the government violating them bc the Gov is specifically directed not to violate them in the document that creates the Gov.
@@countpicula illegal search of his bag?
Depends heavily on the state. Texas has some of the loosest worker protections in the country, so it's particularly unlikely there. Pretty much the *only* chance is if they aren't allowed to search his private property, and keep in mind that the bill of rights only says what the government can't do to you, not your employer.
Can’t believe the searched you like that, absolutely crazy.
When you are at work on company time and especially company property...you are not in a free world situation...it's part of the agreement when you get hired anywhere that you can be searched as well as your vehicle.
Luv ur chanel bb
It is really easy to be angry over something like this, but it takes humility to understand what you did wrong, and to take responsibility for it. It's easy to be macho, but harder to be ethical, so kudos to you for that.
Very kind of you to say.
Tough subject and kudos to you for being so candid about a dark chapter in your life. Getting my ccw and debating how I would even carry during my commute. Even leaving in the car in a safe is a dicey proposition with my workplace climate. A guy that works as part-time Leo was harrased because he kept his duty vest in his car. Some nervous douche equated that to firearms in his car which he didn't. They called the cops on him and tried hard to make a mountain out of a mole hill.
Many people fixate on the gun at the ONLY solution. Risk management is a multifaceted subject.
Pepper spray is a pretty good option. It's virtually never viewed as a "weapon", and for most of what the average person is likely to encounter that's not DEADLY force.
Will it work against a spree killer? Probably not. But I tend to focus more on E&E than I do getting into a gunfight.
That's just me.
Get that clarified with HR, then decide if it's still a place you want to work.
@@wilfdarr quitting isn't a option and in the Chicagoland area finding a workplace that isn't against or unfriendly to firearms is a moot point. And even asking that question would put a target on me and ring alarms, sirens,bells, and whistles in their sheeple brains. Only option getting clearer and clearer is moving out of state.
@@Dav-hz8mm So why do you stay? Chicago is one of the worst cities in the states?
@@wilfdarr no argument here. Family firstly and time invested in a job. accrued PTO job is pretty relaxed. The cringe politics and crime sometimes question the importance of the job anyway. Thinking hard about northwest Indiana or as far south as Texas.
Don’t forget, laws change too. In California, they passed the red flag laws. I have never been allowed to carry at work, but many of my coworkers know I am one of the “gun guys.” I never worried because I never brought a gun to work. Now, a coworker can just say they are concerned about me and SWAT will show up at my house. If everything isn’t perfectly in order, it will be a felony charge and instant firing.
Bro bro yes this happened to me different circumstances. Same story tho
Get out of CA, I did and it was definitely worth it.
That is why people across the country are fleeing states like California. Stay at your own peril, this story can be you also.
Ya its harder than it sounds.
I really appreciate you making this video.
Glad it was helpful!