HORNBY TT 120 and my views on Hornby's marketing strategy, at Chadwick Model Railway 181.
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- Опубліковано 5 жов 2024
- Hornby's TT 120 Train Sets are starting to appear, but do they live up to the hype?
Also, is Hornby’s marketing strategy fair, refusing to supply these models to the retailers? Check it out here at Chadwick Model Railway 181.
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As many have already stated an extremely informative and independent review. I’m so glad I model N Gauge so as not to be compromised by a sales strategy. Keep up the good work Charlie 👍
Thanks David, that’s very kind of you to say so mate. Regards, Charlie
I thought it was biased and reviewed from someone who obviously takes the hobby far too seriously. What do you want for £170? Thats what i payed.
For a £170 I would like a model with wheels that actually turn without having to peel off hidden sticky tape 🤷♂️. Just saying
@@andykopgod The most important thing is that you got the value for your money that you expected. Charlie does take the hobby as a serious endeavor. His seeming belief that a job well done, and well studied, is its own reward is evident. But, to each his own. Enjoy your train. One question I would have for you, is what level of support have you found in accessories and such in TT? (Structures, figures) Or maybe that is not a concern for you.
Agree - great no holds barr video; telling as it is without any smoke back up Hornby's exhaust; Yep agree that newbies need a more affordable entry point into the hobby / pastime. Can't yet see that in TT120 - no railroad / budget range and the TT120 not all that much cheaper than regular OO, bit of bite of the ^^^%%^ for not getting TT120 to model stores / shops like Rails, Hattons; make adoption of scale more difficult. Bit of own goal also by hornby on this train set - the 2 same'ish coach (2nd and 1st), the track quality but taken as a whole Hornby did a good set off in this new scale ( niggle again is on the price - same as OO from all manufacturers)
To me it makes sense to only sell direct for a few reasons. 1, Hornby take all the risk of stocking a new scale. 2, Hornby stockists may not wish to invest in stock of a new (unproven in UK market) scale. 3, If launch is very successful then it would be appropriate to roll out to stockists which I suspect will happen in time.
Excellent observation. I still think Hornby have gone off half-cocked though.
We may have to agree to disagree on this one mate. Regards, Charlie
@@ChadwickModelRailway I've just lent my Scotsman set to my local retailer to try!!
Correct, clearly some people have no real understanding of business. Hornby whether you like them or not are the ones having to invest in the tooling, marketing, etc. so taking all the risk - why can’t they seek to generate a return on that investment.
@@ramore1000 I agree. However I can't help thinking that they've put a lot of the cart before the horse as the product range is somewhat disjointed and uncoordinated. TT gauge would be ideal for me but there is absolutely nothing in there of any interest. Very poor market research and product placement me thinks. Also they missed the opportunity to vary the cheesy branding (eg The Eastener) and bog standard packaging with something more dynamic.
Thanks for this Charlie. I have to say that I HAVE turned to TT as, at the age of 75, my wife and I moved into a small 2 bed bungalow to see out the rest of our lives. I had given up all the OO I used to have as there is just no room. Whilst watching 'Hornby a model world'on TV I was struck by Simon Kholer and his vision for TT. I had a look and took a few measurements and found that I could fit a 6'X3'6 board in the small bedroom and have it fold up against the wall. I eagerly await the delivery of the Eastern DCC set (which I've never used before). I do think though, that we must all remember that this is a (cut throat) business, and in order to succeed you must be a leader which is what, IMO, is what Hornby have done. Anyway, I've now discovered your videos and will certainly be watching many more.
Hi Ian, Hope you don't mind me commenting. Have you thought about running boards right around the room walls with a lift out or lift up bridge? When I was a youngster my dad did my/ his layout like that and my single bed and furniture was underneath it for several years. Prior had a fold up like you planning but wanted more fun and operation opportunities! The lift out bridge was made with plastic curtain rails glued together to form a ladder as the support frame and 4x Airfix girder bridge kits on top - it looked brilliant, was light, rigid and easy to lift in/ out (I was 9 at the time of build). Had two main line track loops with 4 platforms, an inner goods line 3/4 way round, double engine shed, goods yard and a few sidings. Room about 7' x 9'. TT120 would have allowed so much more in that same space. My current OO layout is at 42" high to top of base boards (allows for blanket box to be opened = the wife's requirement) for best sight lines when sat in a wheeled office chair. Like you am retired and looking at every opportunity of making my final layout my best! Regards Stephen.
@@stephenpike3147 Funnily enough I did that once for our eldest son for his 11th birthday. I built it id sections in my in-law's garage and transported it home to build it in the spare (box) room.We lived in a 3 bed semi in those days) He was stunned when he walked in the room the following day (his birthday). Unfortunately the small bedroom is also where I sleep, my wife snores and I keep waking her by lightly kiccking :D. There really is no way to build one around the room. But thank you very much for your interest in my post. All the best,
Ian.
Thanks Ian, for a very interesting comment. However, since posting the video I have also noticed that the front running number is not straight and also the whistle is upside down! I do hope you have better luck with yours. Regards, Charlie
Thanks for sharing n guage guy myself tt looks cool too though if you're into British rail
I'm pleased that they've left Tri-ang's 4ft-nothing gauge in the past. Using the correct scale for the gauge is a significant departure from history for the UK market, and something I think they should be commended for. This could end up being the premier scale for people looking for accurate locomotive appearance -- the front end of steam locos particularly can be made much better in this scale than in any other commercial UK scale because of the from-the-box accurate track gauge. Everything else is compromised by having to support overly-narrow track, even if you as an individual model to a more accurate, wider gauge.
Yes, this does make it "A bigger N with wider track" rather than the truly half-way-between scale it is to everyone else, but that's not TT:120's fault, it's the fault of 1:76 vs 1:87 and 1:148 vs 1:160.
I'm disappointed (but not surprised) to learn there are quality issues. Seeing it with the track though is particularly disheartening. A lot of 'train set' usage is temporarily set up on tables or (shock, horror) carpet, and having track that isn't stable enough to operate without pinning down isn't good in a train-set offering.
Two CKs and a BSK in the set is actually pretty reasonable. I don't see this choice of coach as a massive faux-pas. If asked what two coaches I'd tool up first, these would be my first two as well -- and a train formed BSK-CK-CK-BSK was surprisingly common in the steam era. I'm more surprised by the lack of Blue/Grey Mk1 coaches TBH than by the lack of an SK or TSO.
OTOH, if they don't go on to make more variants and these remain the only two Mk1s for some time, that'd be much more concerning.
I kinda get why they went direct-exclusive initially. They seem to have ... issues ... running a pre-order system involving lots of retailers. It's not uncommon to see retailers advise customers their pre-order of some popular Hornby product had to be cancelled because Hornby have revised their order allocation down, sometimes quite aggressively.
If it turns out there is massive demand and Hornby don't have enough stock, they really don't want people's first experience of TT:120 to be a cancelled pre-order. In an established scale, that cancelled pre-order is someone who maybe doesn't get this particular model, but they'll be back for the next one they are interested in. In a new scale, that's someone who doesn't start modelling this scale, or who even doesn't pick up railway modelling at all.
They could have fixed this by giving their own store an allocation like every other retailer gets and having it sell out when this is exhausted (rather than "allegedly" eating into other retailers allocations), but ... this approach will also solve that problem.
OTOH If they have massively overestimated the demand, stock could end up hanging around for a while. Retailers are generally allergic to letting products sit on shelves for any length of time, and Hornby probably don't want to see their new products price-cut to oblivion to shift them if TT:120 has a slow start. With their own shop, they might be more willing to sit on stock while they consider the future of the range, should initial sales not go as well as expected.
If they want to achieve their aim of revitalising the train-set market though, the direct-exclusive thing has to be temporary. Not to offer the range to model shops per se -- but to get sets into places like Amazon and Smyths.
I'm not sure if the correct parallel here is Hornby launching Dublo, Märklin launching Z, or Tri-ang launching TT. This could easily go any of those directions, and only time will tell.
Thanks mate, for a truly decent and in-depth comment. I too wish Hornby well, but do worry about the future of our model shops. Regards, Charlie
There are 3mm modellers using 14.2 mm track
@@andrewwalsh6790 Yes, there are.
More power to their elbow -- handbuilding scale track is a niche interest, but it's very impressive when done right. But just like 2mmFS, P4 and S7, you'll need wider curves to run it on.
Not because the track gauge is accurate, but because everything else is too. This means much tighter tolerances everywhere, and curves need to be much closer to scale radii.
As a result, you aren't going to attract interest from a manufacturer looking to put a train-set with a continuous run on a 3ft wide board to a finescale track standard like 3mm/ft on 14.2mm gauge.
Great points made Charlie. As a retailer I dumped all my Hornby stock as soon as I got wind of their decision to go direct only as have many others. It was the final straw for me after many other 'strategies' they implemented. Why would I want to talk up TT instore to a new customer when I cannot sell them anything as opposed to introducing the benefits of OO or N to them. My spider senses say Hornby are in trouble and this could make things worse. Keep an eye out for a new owner of Hornby, perhaps we may see Hornby by Kato...
What a fascinating comment. I do hope that your Shop maintains a strong foothold in the community mate. Regards, Charlie
Kato takeover of Hornby? Hornby that runs perfectly all the time? That would be something.
As a North American TT Modeler I welcome anything in TT Scale. TT was always considered a "Craftsmen Scale" over here. i.e., you have to make everything! I wish them luck. The track is an issue though. Hopefully they correct the issue.
I’m sure that they will sort it out in time. Stay safe, regards, Charlie
Either that or people will buy Hornby locos and rolling stock, then buy Peco track. I model 00 myself for the sake of variety and fair competition. However if I was to model TT 120, I would not entertain the use of Hornby track as I had bad experiences with Hornby 00. No amount of scaling down to fit more into a smaller space could convince me to use Hornby track again as I personally find it too flimsy for my liking even with the scale I actually use.
@@Scotsman60103 I use Tillig track. So far so good.
Hi Charlie thanks for the mention! Yes the Peco track is the way to go I think, keep it under your hat but I may have started a small TT layout using the Peco track 😁 I'm very conflicted about the direct sales model, of course if I owned a model shop I would be furious but it would be hypocritical of me to criticise Hornby given the amount of goods I buy online. If its a choice between supporting my local model shop or buying direct from Hornby then its the local shop every time, but between Hornby online or buying online from one of the big box shifters (Hattons, Rails of Sheffield etc.) I'd rather give the money to Hornby...what are the other's really adding? Anyway, it will be interesting to see what happens with TT:120. Keep up the good work. Cheers, Simon.
The point is that once they've driven the competition out of business, Hornby can charge what they want. That's why there's a competition and markets authority. To stop the consumer being fleeced.
The box shifters tend to charge a great deal less (OO stuff, obviously) than Hornby; I also suspect their customer care is better.
The box-shifters also carry a lot of things like scenic items, controllers from third parties and second--hand stuff. From what I have seen, Hornby's buildings and trees etc. are nice, but at a long price.
@@Poliss95 exactly and people are too stupid to see it tesco , asda , aldi etc killed many of our local shops thier greed not happy with just selling food they killed off local news agents , local clothing stores tempting you in for cheap tat then now the competition has gone BOOSH ! cheap tat becomes expensive tat , but no one sees what the globalists bhave done and moan ooh this awful cost of living
Peco points 100% extra! As usual, if you're after realism, go for expensive Peco, if you want a train set stick to cheaper Hornby.
This channel is one of the few that I watch mainly because it’s about your layout Charlie and your progress! The sharing of great ideas and creativity, unlike other channels, which can often be a platform for self promotion or for the projection of personal opinions. But this video left me with a feeling of discomfort… I wrote this whilst attending the Doncaster exhibition. It’s packed and virtually everyone is spending money. Returning to the hobby I can only say it’s wonderful the amount of choice we have now - things that were only dreamed of when I originally modelled. Yes it’s expensive, I don’t recall it ever being ‘cheap’ but we have the option of buying high end now. If you don’t like the price of the Bachmann 37, so what, I’ll buy the cheaper Accurascale one! These manufacturers are all grown ups and chose how to position their business. The thing I don’t get is what seems a trend to look for negatives in everything amongst this. Particularly aimed at Hornby. Yes they’re not brilliant at everything but they are what they are. But in wanting to find negatives it just becomes more of the same. A4’s never had discs for example, they had lamps, only southern locos had discs. But Hornby get the criticism nether the less. Looking at this room today of course there’s room for TT. We’re not going to lose out as modellers! And I suspect the only reason Heljan pulled out was they were oblivious until later that Hornby were s already well advanced in their development of the range. Live snd let live I say and enjoy and celebrate not mock and criticise the wonderful choices we have today to be creative! 😊
A fair comment, Al, and one which I thoroughly acknowledge. Regards, Charlie
Hi Charlie, your comments are spot-on. As an ex-modeller, I would ask why don't Hornby concentrate on OO scale, pull their fingers out, and make the brand exceptional again, not piddle around with a half-ar***ed scale, very difficult to buy, and as you said, probably overprices. Again your comment of being a shop and sending back all Hornby stock, I couldn't agree more. ATB and keep producing excellent videos.
Thanks Lindsey, I’m so pleased that you found the video interesting and that we agree on such a serious matter. Regards, Charlie
Nice video Charlie. Very informative and well delivered in your very easy to listen to relaxed style (my wife loves it ). I was particularly grateful to see the scales side by side so we could make direct comparisons. I fully agree with your thoughts re Hornby by the way. All things considered I will definitely be sticking with 00 and am not in the slightest tempted to buy any tt120 at all ! Keep up the great work , I always look forward to your videos. Kindest regards Jim
Thanks Jim, for such a heartwarming comment. Good luck with your modelling, regards, Charlie
Totally agree you saved me typing
Thank you Charlie for an interesting discussion of a new/old model railway scale. For quite sometime now the quality of some Hornby items have been questioned by modellers with errors/issues and you have highlighted them again reviewing this train set. I very rarely buy anything they produce anymore for OO scale and I now have a large range of Bachmann, Dapol and some Heljan. We should all be supporting the model shops who provide a very valuable knowledge support service, often for free. I look forward to your next video in 2 weeks.
An excellent comment, Simon, and I totally agree. We must support our model shops whenever possible. Regards, Charlie
Well said Simon, however I would like to see the hobby shops who mark the prices up bordering on greed, called out over it and "exposed" for want of a better word. As for Hornby, it has been way too expensive for years now, even when produced in China, when the quality of many rolling stock and other pieces also, was terrible. I still think that many Hornby products look like toys and not models in the real sense. They really need to lift their game. Personal opinion.
@@125sloth I have probs with items being made in China. But, there has to be some kind of recompense for what the buyer gets.
Maybe it's just the marketing but the Easterner set where I am works out at roughly £363, and I can't buy from England. That's just plain too much. I can get two tillig start sets for that. Yes they're German but they're good. They're know. The track system is excellent. You can get almost every bit of rolling stock made, (as long as its German) and all with formidable quality.
Of course, one might state the obvious and say but I want to model BR. Yep, great. That's when N and 00 really continue looking very attractive, and if you like the size of tt, probably quite happy to to not confine oneself to any geographical location.
@@125sloth to be honest I look at many of the quality issues people really get in a twist over here and think back to the days of going through the back room of my dads mates model shop... mountains of stuff he simply wouldn't sell and took to exhibition to shift at a discount as "second hand" when it wasn't it was just brand new with issues.
Gotta question if the quality was ever amy higher or just the mitigation of you getting the duff bits was the thing making it seem better. Most online retail now just ship it, not a care in the world, that service the shop once provided of opening the box in your presence, a little run on the test track before handing your cash over is gone for the most part.
@@Trainskitsetc No arguments from me with any of that. Yep, they do not care at all with some of these online retailers.
Charlie, your passion for the hobby is to be admired. I really appreciate the points you make across the whole subject. I doubt Hornby have got it right, possibly because of manufacturing quality unless they can differentiate the positioning for a toy from a model successfully.
Thanks Andy, but I have my doubts. Regards, Charlie
People come from many miles to buy from the model shop I use. I want this shop to be there next week - Hornby do not, it seems. Not sure how this gauge fits in. If we take OO as the standard and N as the choice of an adult modeler with little space, where is the need for a 3rd option ? I have made a big investment in both OO and N so I am not tempted. As I would expect your analysis is intelligent and entertaining Charlie and I'm glad I watched it. But that is as far as I go with 120
Thanks Martin, I’m so pleased that you found the video interesting. Regards Charlie
Super video Charlie, I've tried to ignore all the fuss about TT:120 because personally I'm not that interested, but the Hornby business strategy side of things does interest me and I agree with a lot of what you've said. Also I think you might have a future in unboxings and reviews, watch out Sam 😉
Sorry Rob, I certainly won’t be entering that forum. Regards, Charlie
Well done, Charlie - I think you hit the nail squarely on the head there with your summary of TT120. Disappointing to see the track geometry appears so far out. Didn't need my new glasses to see how bad that was !!!
Time will tell on the level of acceptance, but I think I'll be sticking to OO.
Looking forward to the next video as always.
Andy
Thanks Andy, I’m so pleased to have you onboard for this issue. Stay safe, regards, Charlie
Hi Charlie. Enjoyed watching your review very much. I hope somebody from Hornby was also watching.
I can't imagine buying a train set online, I would want to see what I'm buying first.
The comparison of the three locos together was interesting. I think what might convince me to go one way or another would be to see a loop of track of each gauge together.
I hope you get an A4 for your layout sometime, I am proud to have Mallard and Sir Nigel Gressley in my Dublo collection.
Have a great weekend!!
Thanks David, I’m so pleased that you found the video interesting. Have a great weekend, regards, Charlie
One thing possibly worth mentioning, is unlike British OO and N, TT120 is the right scale for its gauge.
I actually found this quite noticeable in your shots of the three scales end on. Both the OO and the N look tall and thin when compared to the TT120 version, even if it isn't so noticeable when viewed in isolation.
I'm not sure how much this helps the uptake, but to a certain kind of modeller it could be an attractive aspect
The accurate scale/gauge combination is one of the main things that attracts me to the scale. It's high time British modellers were offered a ready to run scale which has an accurate track gauge. I'm just a little disappointed that Hornby have somewhat negated this advantage by producing track with grossly overscale rail and flange thickness. I get that things like flanges have to be overscale for models to stay on the track but I'm sure it doesn't have to be as coarse as Hornby have made it.
An excellent observation George. Although I’m unsure how many people seek a train set, will notice. Regards, Charlie
Thanks Charlie. I’m not in the UK but here in Texas - I did live in London for nearly two years on a work assignment however. I’ve pre-ordered the Royal Scotsman TT:120 set and Peco track and points. I want a UK prototype for a layout and while I’m experimenting with OO9 I do find it a bit problematic from an operations standpoint - most likely will end up with a Welsh style micro layout to enjoy. I’m also interested to move into 3D printing and this will solve the availability for the structures and accessories as I’ll use for the layouts by resizing them via software. I would not make the scale the main layout however as the limited range is too much of a concern. Appreciate your channel - keep it coming and thanks for the “branching out” as I am.
Thanks Jay, I’m so pleased that you found the video interesting. Good luck with your purchase, I hope you have more luck than me. Regards Charlie
The range will grow (if TT:120 doesn't fall flat on its face).
This is the comparison I’ve been looking for. It’s the first time I’ve seen all 3 scales lined up next to each other. As someone wanting to return to model railways and with a collection of 00 scale boxed away, but also considering selling to fund a new scale.
I thought TT120 would be a good option since I’m limited on space. Having seen it next to N scale, my mind is made up, N scale will have my future investment. Especially when TT is only available through Hornby, which having seen How they dispatch their items from other reviews, will cost me a small fortune in postage to the other side of the world.
You said it all. TT is clearly if you are interested in East German/Eastern Europe trains, and I'm convinced Hornby won't change this trend...
I agree TT is too close to N gauge which has much more variety and more layout for your space
To be perfectly honest, N Gauge is the only one to go for if you have a house layout, you will get much more realistic running lengths
It might not look much bigger but the volume inside the same type of loco is almost twice as much for TT than for N - so much more room for motors, chip and speaker. And it you plan on going any scratch building you will find N quite a fiddle and hard on the eyes. TT will be about 25% better in that regard as well - not sure what difference that will make until I give it a go but my eye sight really is not what it once was. Down-side? Yes, you will need 50% more board area than N for the same layout - but only 40% of the area you would need in OO [typo corrected, originally said N here].
Oh, and that PECO track looks SEXY compared to N or OO, you have to scratch build EM to get to that standard. In fact, it is better than EM IMO. And the detailing on the Loco's is better than N...
If you had not guessed it I for one am really liking the look of TT and am tempted to build my first new layout in years. Perhaps I am the new money Hornby are hoping to attract?
@@kalicom2937 Too many modellers don't know how 'wrong' British N and OO is.
Thanks for another great video, Charlie. You did very well to bite your lip in the summing up and not tear into Hornby and their two-fingered approach to TT:120. I completely agree with your retailer analogy and I can only see this whole TT:120 scenario falling down around their (Hornby) ears.
Sadly, we sing from the same song sheet on this one mate. Regards, Charlie
I have a lot of hope for TT:120 becoming a success in Britain - I really want it to become a popular scale here among more brands than Hornby. The most appealing things to me is the scale accurate track gauge (unlike British OO and British N gauge) of 1:120 on 12 mm track vs 1:101.6 on 12 mm track and the ease of running a train set or model railway in a smaller room. It's a real shame about the error in machining (or even design) of the Hornby track curves and the other issues you pointed out, but I do really hope that it becomes a successful scale for newcomers.
On newcomers, I think it would be much better if more modern image locomotives, multiple units and rolling stock (post-1997) were released sooner than later - there are of course some modern lines announced, but there should really be more EMUs and DMUs planned. 3rd rail and OHLE accessories should also be a focus for model manufacturers.
On a personal note, I have a small collection of old, mostly second hand OO gauge locos and rolling stock with a bunch of track in boxes. I have no room to use them anymore, however, in a few years I hope the TT 1:120 market has grown enough to allow me to consider entering 1:120 seriously.
An excellent comment, Jon, however, I really wish that they had checked their production runs meticulously prior to release. Regards, Charlie
British N Gauge is a mere 0.7mm under gauge, which at normal viewing distances is not noticeable.
@@neiloflongbeck5705 Yep, and even then you can go finescale without wheelset changes but, like you say, having explored this it's a tiny marginal difference.
But surely it isn't needed when we already have n gauge? It risks splitting the market more which is bad for economies of production and the like. You think what goes into a layout, not just tracks and trains.
Many of us find N too small for our eyes, whereas tt120 seems an effective compromise, with a bonus of visually accurate track work.
I said at the start of this series of comments that I have been an N gauge modeller for many years. About 5 years ago I branched out into Narrow gauge and my last 2 layouts have been H0e/ 009. It isn't a scale/gauge that is mentioned when thinking of TT120 and yet someone apart from me must be buying the Bachmann models and the Peco/Kato models!
I wonder if Bachmann have been clever with Narrow Gauge. They have introduced a new line that sits neatly between their 00 gauge and N gauge offerings and quite possibly doesn't cannibalise either of the existing lines. It also builds on the knowledge they have of both scales.
Incidentally to those who want something that fits in a compact area but is bigger than N I'd suggest looking at Bachmann's narrow gauge offerings and the Peco prince/Princess. They really are exquisite!
Thanks John, I’ll answer the last comment. Regards Charlie
Thank you for a very well done informative video on the TT120 stock .I am totally frustrated by Hornby at the moment as to complete lack of customer support and responses to emails etc .Although I often purchased from all the OO manufacturers over the years the quality of Hornby rolling stock seems to be going down compared to the others but what is killing the hobby is the constant increase in prices both announced and under the table so to speak . Keep the videos and comments coming
Thanks John, I’m so pleased that you enjoyed the review, although it’s not something I do regularly. Regards, Charlie
Thank you for bringing up 2 issues that I have faced. I see that I am not the only one who does not get email responses from Hornby. I wonder if that is a sign of something deeper going on within the company, something not good. Also, even though I am very new to OO scale I still see rapidly increasing prices.
Great clip. If I was starting out, TT would be perfect, as my space is very limited. However, despite the clutter and hassle of my layout, I have invested far to much in recent years to just switch over. I feel that I won't be alone, considering modern housing tends to be more...compact
I totally agree! Mate. Regards Charlie
I am interested in TT120 as I want to get beck into model railways and I was undecided about the scale to select. My last train set was based on the Welshpool Narrow Gauge railway and I used N gauge track rolling stock, with the bodies replaced by my poor copies of the Welshpool stock. I was very happy with the railway, so I was planning on going with N gauge now, so when Hornby announced Tt120. I've not bought anything as a result as I waited for what happened with Hornby's plans. After a year of thinking, I am going for Tt120. I think the rolling stock and engines look like good quality and are well made. I will be using Pico track as it gets such good reviews.
Good luck with your project Colin.
I do wish that Hornby had brought out more modern stock.
Regards Charlie
Charlie, I'm 75 (very nearly) and I got my first Hornby Dublo when I was a teenager. TT was around but there was not much going for it and so apart from a very few diehards, the scale died in the late 1960s. Why resurrect a dead horse, when the market is happy with the status quo? Arthur
I couldn’t agree more Arthur. Regards, Charlie.
Thanks Charlie, a very interesting presentation. I think you're on the ball with your assessment of Hornby's strategy. As someone whose enthusiasm and childhood love of all things miniature was tickled by all the UA-cam modellers like yourself, I decided to get into trains. And as you rightly point out, when you first start ones approach fall somewhere between playing with train sets and modelling, with your eye on the potential of all the modelling fun that lies ahead, [when you can find the time]. I decided to go with N scale, and started with the second hand market, to see how I felt about it, and because of price. That was about fours years ago. If Hornby's TT20 was around then, I would have looked at the situation and my thoughts would've been as follows: I have a large starting base with N, many manufacturers, UK, US, Japanese and European, huge numbers of options and a great second hand market, which I can source to try things out. So, as a beginner, would I go with a single manufacturer, whose product was only available from them, whose choice at this set must be extremely limited, and the long term prospects are unknown? No, I would go with choice, with options, tried and tested manufactures and all that goes with a diverse marketplace.
Thanks for your interesting comment, Tony. Regards, Charlie.
A great video Charlie. As has been said, very informative. I don't think many railway modellers who have a good 00 set-up -(I have a 10x7 room in which I run a 00gauge end-to-end layout) - would consider changing everything to go over to TT 120. At a recently attended show (Southampton) I would say the average age of those attending was 60/65 - very few youngsters. I know they are the group we are trying to encourage, but that 60/65 age group are not going to sell-up and change because there is a new kid on the block. Now someone starting from scratch will consider it - you can get more into the space you have available. It will be interesting to see how TT120 progresses - the big problem Hornby have in my view is availability, everything is on pre-order and won't be available for months. Keep up the good work.
A great comment Barry, and of course you can’t touch the stuff when it’s online. Regards, Charlie
Well discussed Charlie. Great to see your passion for the hobby.
Thanks Geoff, I’m so pleased that you found it interesting mate.
Stay safe, regards, Charlie
TT120 A scale for our time. In the 60s I had a 6' by 4' foot layout in my bedroom. It was permanent. But I stuck with my design. So after the big stuff was done. Hill's, cuttings, tunnels. I was stuck doing the small minutiae. That became my problem.
With 120 my plan is not to have track secured. Have abstracts for scenery. So I can change the layout quickly. Put it up and take it down. Something to keep the grandkids intrested. That is my plan. I have joined a railway model club. It is still an HO led train layout. Only because most of us have train sets in boxes.
I will be modeling for 120, while working on the club layout.
You have a sound plan Stephen. Good luck with your project, regards, Charlie
I think for a big new investment with a long term plan, they must have a future date penciled in already for when they expect to make TT available through retailers. Taking full control of sales and marketing in the early stages seems very sensible - especially as it appears they're now going to have little to no major competition to begin with. If it sells well for Hornby in the first two or three years, I would ball park five years as the point when retailers will get a look in, as that's the point when a small second hand market is likely to begin to form anyway.
I do hope you’re alright EF, I’d hate to see the retailers struggling. Regards, Charlie
Got The Easterner set last week.
The power connecting clip had broken, removed the plastic cover and found one of the brass springs was too short, ended up soldering wires inside just to run the loco in.
Unfortunately after 10mins the front pony truck had fallen off. That black tape covers the nut, tape had come off the nut has dropped off as had the screw which holds the metal bar on to the chassis, that always comes loose.
Having taken it too an exhibition it ran very well all day Saturday but at slow speed was very noticeable that it slowed down even more when going round the second radius curves.
On Sunday it did two laps of the oval then the controller shut down on overload.
Got home stripped it down, when putting 9v battery directly to the motor it sometimes will spin, but other times not, I need to spin the end of the motor to get it started.
The loco is on its way back for repair, will be interesting to know what the actual fault is.
As I mainly model in N there is little point in doing anything in TT:120 it's almost the same size so I wouldn't be gaining anything.
I’m sorry mate, I have to disagree. Your train set is clearly unfit for purpose and you should return it for a full refund. Regards Charlie
Hi Charlie Nice video explaining all the relevent differences etc. As an N gauge modeller, I thought I might have a look at TT as the 'true scale' of 1:120 and the correct sleeper spacing of the track (Peco made) appeals to me as it looks more realistic. However having seen the various unboxing and running videos etc I'm now thinking I won't bother with TT and stick to N, as there is far more items available and from Model shops too. Thanks for your insight into it though, I do value your thoughts on all things Model railway.
Thanks Peter, that’s very kind of you to say so mate. Regards, Charlie
Thanks for a thoughtful and balance video. I sadly will be returning the set to Hornby as even with the tape removed the front bogie on the loco kept derailing when entering curves. This was particularly bad on reverse curves even at a crawl. Interestingly it stayed on the track with the bogie removed. I had also bought a Piko TT Bo-Bo locomotive (a very impressive model) which ran faultlessly on the same Hornby track.
I hope Hornby can resolve these issues and the this great scale goes on to flourish. In the mean time I will just have to accept short trains and go down the OO route. I modelled in N for many years but my eyes now prefer something a little larger! Happy modelling.
Sorry to hear of your situation mate. Hopefully Hornby will put it right. Regards, Charlie
With regards to the Heljan statement, don't Hornby have a track record of doing things like this? When a small manufacturer announces something, Hornby announce their own version to make it not worth that other manufacturer doing theirs. They did it when Cavalex(?) announced the class 91 and shortly after Hornby announced theirs.
On the TT:120, I'm too far down the line with OO to switch so it isn't of consequence to me. I would say that I can't quite see the point of it to a traditional, established modeller with the choice of N or OO but maybe it makes sense to someone completely new to the hobby. Although if someone was to ask me, I'd point them to N if they are short of space and OO if they aren't (or O if they have acres of space and unlimited money supply).
Hornby seem to be trying to keep this as a monopoly, monopolies are not good for consumers. It is very hard to change scale once you have started.
Also, did any of the A4s have a front coupling pocket?
Agreed. Hornby seems to have a cuckoo strategy for their offering, and I'm afraid this move towards TT 120 is one example of this. Clearly, they want to knack N scale established manufacturers like Graham Farish and Dapol, and newcommers like Cavalex, Rapido or Sonic Models, with a scale they have a monopoly on.
Great comments gentlemen. Let’s hope Hornby are reading these comments. Regards, Charlie
Dear Charlie, absolutely agree with you on H’s TT rejuvenation.
Saw Simon’s Shed issue on H’s TT track comparison to PECO. Well, that already left me with ‘disbelief,’ just for the horrendous middle sleeper. Now your point (pun intended) on the quality of the set track no. 3 curves; that 3inch overlap on the full circle is truly beyond anything one would wish for, especially from a train set.
Don’t know how long H exists, but by now they should be able to produce some accurate set track, one would say; I say!!
Instructions up to 4 pages, whilst in the text referring to page 8 is absolutely beyond any comprehension.
The noise of this set; well, to my ears it definitely doesn’t sound good.
On the whole marketing strategy for H’s TT. As I mentioned before; I too am under the impression that H is attempting to garner market share by becoming the UK’s monopolist in TT gauge. Similar to the US’s Lionel brand for their O gauge, for a long time was.
Don’t think that’s the way to go for a model railroad manufacturing brand. Todays model railroading just isn’t about isolated market niches.
The whole market, for all gauges, is evolving into a kind of ‘open source’ knowledge exchange. Setting one’s self aside, as H does, is the opposite way and definitely not a good one.
Also agree on your opinion about hobby shops and the way they should react towards H’s policy.
H definitely took the wrong turnout and is absolutely off point!
An excellent comment, Vincent, including all the puns. Regards, Charlie
Thank you for that comparison shot of the scales towards the end. I'd been hearing about this TT malarkey for a few months now, and found myself thinking that it sounds like a pretty decent scale, and if I didn't have so much 00 already, I'd probably go into it, as the diddyness of N gauge never appealed. So to see that it's barely a smidge bigger than N gauge was quite revealing, as I'd just vaguely assumed it'd be halfway between the scales.
I'd also say that Hornby are making a bit of a strategic error in only selling it direct. If they, as they claim, this is coming from "new" money, then surely the best place to sell it is in Smyth's Toys?!
Thanks Ron, I’m so pleased that you found the video interesting. Regards Charlie
Totally agree with everything you say Charlie. If I was starting out there is no way I would go with TT120. As you say there is no ‘used’ kit available anywhere.
Thanks Barry, I’m so pleased that you found the video interesting. Regards Charlie
Hi Charlie,
I am a new recruit to TT120 and I am relatively pleased with my experience so far! Model steam engines are fantastic with sounds.
Main gripe is with ‘Out of Stock’ items at Hornby, particularly basic items when setting up from scratch. For example 3rd radius bends suddenly were out of stock so I had to tweak design to use 2nd radius bends and these are giving a few issues. The 6 pin DCC decoder for my 08 shunter is not due until Summer 24.
Bad retailer experience with Gaugemaster. I managed to buy their last Flying Scotsman set with sound. Loco is showing voltage overload warning and will not operate. I contacted Gaugemaster who said they would only accept loco back if complete set was sent back. I explained that I was just finalising fixing layout to baseboard. Made no difference! REALLY? I have now spoken to Hornby who are arranging a return to them.
My last model railway experience was 55 years ago so I have a lot of catching up to do! If I finish up in a nursing home at least there is a chance I will be able take my TT120 with me.
Cheers
David
Hi David, It’s a vulnerable scale currently, until it reaches critical mass.
I believe the quality of track from Peco is much better, and perhaps you need to make some enquiries. Good luck with your project, regards, Charlie
Hello Charlie nice video and very interesting to.Regarding the trainset why doesn't it have enough track to reverse the engine and three coaches off fully from the main loop? That way the said child or whatever could knock up a small station and off load people do a few loops and go back again? Also i honestly thought that TT 120 would be slap bang in the middle of N and OO Gauge but it's not is it! Sadly i am not a 'modern' Hornby fan,i never buy anything new from Hornby now,i am not a Simon Kohler fan either.
I’m afraid Michael, that’s a question for Hornby to answer. Regards, Charlie
@@ChadwickModelRailway True :)
Totally agree with your views on there sale strategy, I have been an exhibition modeller for many years in many gauges, and have never or will ever purchase a Hornby product
An interesting strategy, Dave, regards, Charlie
It's also worth noting that here in Australia, our retailers are actually getting TT:120 sets and stuff, here it's not entirely exclusive to Hornby's website. That's apparently due to some sort of distributing quirk we've got over here that you folks don't. Just thought that was something interesting and worth sharing.
Yes, I have heard that you have some kind of middleman organisation involved!
Following Hornby's introduction of it's direct sales policy I have made a decision to not buy any Hornby products at all. I consider the model shops to be very important for our hobby as they don't stock just 'toy trains' they usually stock everything that we, as railway modellers need to move on from the 'toy train' stage of our hobby. I believe that by taking this stance I may be party to a reduction in Hornby's share of the market which will hopefully make them reverse this policy which I believe is very damaging for the hobby as a whole and for model shops in particular. Keep up the good work Charlie, I enjoy every video you release.
Thanks Stephen, I couldn’t agree more with your point of view. Regards Charlie
Hi Charlie agree about the comments regarding hornby engineering.They seem to be a company that just looks a the bottom line.
The comment on model shops giving back there stocks of hornby products as a result of not being allowed to stock TT120 is a great one .
Hornby tried to do this some years ago by selling web site exclusives . That failed and hornby had to eat humble pie and they stopped that practice after a lot of grovelling from S Koller. It seems he wants to try and do it again .
Hornby need to realise that without loyal customers they will suffer regardless of gauge.
I personally have stopped buying hornby ( not that they would notice) but if all modellers voted with there wallets it could make Hornby rethink.
Hornby need to get a grip of there quality and supply chain . With their arrogance though I doubt it .
I couldn’t agree more Giovanni, the quality assurance is shocking. Regards, Charlie
Thank you from the Sunshine Coast of Qld, Australia. I am a retired male who is trying to reserect my train set from when I was a child. So all I have is HO/OO stock, as a pensioner I don’t think I could fork out for a new scale of rolling stock etc. Wim Baas
I'm so pleased that you found it interesting Fran. Regards Charlie
I previously commented that I was considering changing my plans for an N scale layout to TT.. my optimism for TT has diminished and I'm reverting to my original plan.
As I live in Ireland I have a few issues in addition to those experienced by UK modelers ( unfortunately it's the B word that everyone loves); typically if I want UK model railway stock or supplies of any kind I will buy from a northern Ireland store that can source them more easily from the UK and I would make the 2 hour drive up north to get them. However, as you have pointed out Hornby are doing direct sales only, Which means my usual routine is not possible and ordering directly is not financially viable ( unless I want to be stung for vat and customs often doubling the price).
In addition the investment from other companies is not there.
Great video as always Charlie.
An excellent comment, Chris, I feel your pain. Regards, Charlie
TOTALLY agree with live feed going to the female, should never go to the male. I used the same method throughout my layout build. It's NOT a new scale, as stated by Hornby, how can they get away with saying that. May I commend you, on your presentation, as always is second to none.
Thanks Sam, that’s very kind of you to say so mate. Stay safe, regards, Charlie
Good summation Charlie, I still intend to give TT a punt but I feel model shops should have had the opportunity to sell the range.
Thanks D3, I do hope that it brings you satisfaction, it can’t be all bad surely. Regards, Charlie
30 minutes well spent watching this excellent video. Not selling in shops is a mistake. Especially being unavailable in Argos where most children get their first set and get started in the hobby with their parents. In the first edition of the TT:120 magazine they show how to build a 5ft x 3ft 6 inch layout and a "typical" garage conversion which gives you "plenty of dedicated space" Fully panelled in pine.
Nothing on a table top! What market research has actually been done I wonder.
An excellent point Michael. Regards, Charlie
What a well-considered and articulate assessment. Hornby have generated interest in their TT120 and there will be an initial flurry of sales out of curiosity for a new novelty, but most serious modellers will stick with their existing scales. The ‘new money’ won’t come if these aren’t available on the high street, so Hornby will make more profit but on poorer sales. Currently the sets are reasonably priced, but if Hornby hook people in and get a monopoly you can bet prices will rise. I’m still scratching my head about whether this is genius or madness. What I’m pretty sure of is that even if this product has potential, Hornby have made a pig’s ear of of how they’re managing it - they need the other manufacturers and retailers and have managed to alienate themselves from both in an effort to monopolise and maximise profit. Hopefully they see the error of their ways. I’m sticking with my well-loved OO. All the best, Colin
An excellent comment, Colin, and much appreciated. Regards, Charlie
Hi Charlie another nice and informative video. I’m not surprised about Hornby I fell out of love with them a couple of years ago. I will not buy anything from them again. I had a conversation with Simon a couple of years ago but the small numbers of limited numbers which he did not agree with me. I’m disgusted how they treat their customers price etc now they are having a go at the retail and trade customers. Three cheers for Bachmann, Dapol, Accursale and any other manufacturers who treat their customers with respect.
An excellent comment, Michael, and one which I totally agree with. Regards, Charlie
I'm from Germany. I do love the idea of TT scale and I love foreign trains like US, UK etc. so I am closely following the introduction of Hornby TT:120. Also, for the few non UK guys who are into UK railways like me, it's a great great plus that this is the only British model railroad that finally matches international scale. So if you collect models from different countries you'll see the real size differences between them. That doesn't work if you have US or European models in H0 and then British models in 00, obviously.
However, it's a great shame that they apparently discouraged Heljan from launching TT as well, because as you rightfully point out, it'll be quite a burden to pull off this thing for one single manufacturer. So the A3 / A4 train sets are great if you want big mainline steam but if you want to start with a small layout ... I think there's only one single Diesel shunter available yet. If two manufacturers would be investing in TT, choices would be a bit bigger! And any single extra model available is crucial at this stage!
Also it's bad that they don't support dealers - in my town, there's a very active and enthusiast TT only (!) model railroading shop and now they won't carry Hornby obviously. I mean, c'mon it's not that there are millions of model railroad dealers anymore ... how hard can it be to sell that stuff through dealerships as well.
Overall I think TT is just "the" scale, the only big market for TT is linked to its history in former East Germany (where N scale never was big, but TT was!) and yes they were so right, the scale is fantastic. So any new addition to the TT market is great. And UK is maybe still the #1 model railroading country in the world. So I hope that others will join Hornby and that this will become a success ...
Many thanks for your excellent comments Tom. Sadly, Hornby didn’t get off to the best of starts, but we can only hope that things will improve. Perhaps the Shunter layout would’ve been better if issued as part of the launch. Regards, Charlie
Chris at A and H models says on his UA-cam video that if you want to convert to DCC remove the capacitor hidden inside the connector track block or leave it out and connect wires another way.
I think that I would simply solder the wires to the underside of the track. Regards, Charlie
Hi Charlie, interesting review and analysis. From the modelling side of the situation, I have seen layouts where the use of both 00 scale and n scale have been incorporated to try and create a distance perspective by the smaller scale at the rear of the view point. I just wonder, for railway modellers, whether this effect could be better achieved with the TT scale. Thanks again for your channel. Always interesting and sometimes provocative!
Yes I had similar thoughts, Philip. Some of the Hornby buildings may will come in use in the distance at Chadwick. Regards, Charlie
Very interesting stuff. I'm an N Gauge modeller but started out in HO as a child. Personally, I cannot see TT120 succeeding in the long term.
N Gauge is well established with plenty of manufacturers to support it as well as a healthy 2nd hand market. Just my two pence worth.
In eastern Europe TT is by and away the most popular scale from what i've read online . Whether it will take off in the UK with only a single manufacturer at the moment is anyone's guess . Hornby has warned of a financial loss this year apparently
Yes gentleman, this truly is a risky venture. Regards, Charlie
Another great video, thank you. I do think you glossed over one of the most important selling points for TT120 it is actually an accurate scale/gauge combination. This would be perfect for me but 30 years ago I turned my back on OO, not because of a dislike for British railways, but because of how inaccurate OO is. I do love all your videos but have to laugh when you worry about headcodes and suchlike when the rails are too close together. I am now too involved with HO to change to TT120 but will probably buy a loco, after all, I have sneaked some N and Z into the house over the last few years.....
You make a very valid point Andrew. Regards, Charlie
Many smaller shops are struggling with 00, without needing further division of their capital on an uncertain product line.
Hornby can also monitor and react to order volumes as they have accurate sales feedback.
The product is good, not perfect, and has achieved much discussion, both on quality and marketing, all good for Hornby as it is being talked about, [free advertising], even the errors are not significant really.
So the track is not perfect, mine went together okay and the loco ran in well, no issues with the loco, coaches or track.
Remember that rails need a bit of gapping to allow for expansion due to temperature differentials, garden sheds are notorious.
After a while, it'll self-gap anyway.
Above all, it's an enjoyable hobby, I've not seen anything to put me off TT:120, sending stuff back for minor errors is sad, live with it, or correct it yourself.
Charles, thanks for a great channel.
Thanks Peter for a sensible and understanding comment. Regards, Charlie
You might want to look at HO scale, uses the same gauge track as the OO scale, but has a much more accurate scale/gauge combination.
From a business standpoint, I do get why Hornby have kept the sales all in-house.
These are new toolings, and a brand new market that they want to access. Simon Kohler has repeatedly said that this isn't aimed at anyone already in the hobby.
While it does make it a less enticing purchase, due to not being able to see it run around in a model shop, by not sending them to retailers, Hornby is saving money on distribution and logistics costs. Which means that they can keep the price lower, to where the TT:120 scale models are available cheaper than most of their OO and N gauge equivalents. Which might appeal more to someone looking to get into the hobby.
Like I've previously said, I think if the gamble does pay off for Hornby to where it lasts a few years, unlike the Steampunk range they spent a lot of time hyping up only to flop miserably, then we'll probably see a few more companies enter the TT:120 market.
Bachmann would be the ones I suspect most likely to do it. And perhaps someone like Rapido might think that they can do a better job than what Hornby offers. As we've seen with their upcoming release of Lion, which I for one am more tempted by than the Hornby version.
Once there's evidence that there is actually a market for TT:120 scale, I think that's when we'll not only see Hornby move into the model shop space in order to keep out Bachmann, Rapido, and anyone else that tries to take up a market share. But we might also see the prices start to go up as well. Particularly if Bachmann, Rapido, etc, are determined to make super-detail a priority, rather than striking a balance between a nice looking model and affordability.
It is a shame that Hornby appears to have had some hiccups with the first pair of sets.
The Scotsman for example wound up being sent out to a few people with no power track in the box. And it seemed at one point to be out of stock, and only available via eBay scalpers. Last set I watched wound up selling for £285. When it's £215 new from Hornby, and about £182.50 for anyone who signed up for free to the TT Club. Not even their digital sound version was that much.
And that track with your set for the price is quite appalling. Especially when Hornby is trying to encourage layout building with their own track pack system. I'm also quite concerned hearing that scraping noise when the coaches go around a curve.
Hopefully things get better, and TT:120 finds its own space in the hobby.
Very interesting points, shredder, and very much appreciated too. Regards Charlie
I'm going to give TT a go. Of course it's miles away from OO for choice of rolling stock, but it's much closer to scale trackwork and the Peco track is terrific.
I think it will hurt N gauge in time, but that will be many years away.
I wish you luck with it pH, and I just hope that the Hornby supply chain can meet the demand. Regards, Charlie
@@ChadwickModelRailway thank you, Charlie - keep up the good work!
Good morning Charlie, first can i congratulate you on a very interesting and informative channel.well done Sir. I am 67 and like yourself have been a model railway modeler for many years, I even spent most of my working life on the railways. Anyway, I agree completely with what you say about TT120, I model 00 gauge and I am very happy with that. I look forward to seeing your next video. My very best wishes.. 👍
Thanks Martin, we clearly sing from the same song sheet. Regards, Charlie
Hi Charlie, great to hear your comments on TT:120. I think the noise from the set might have been contributed to by the Hornby controller. When I first started I used those DC controllers and my locos all were quite noisy. However, having switched controllers they have become far more quiet. I think it might be due to the simplicity of the Hornby controllers which makes them cheap enough for a train set…but I can’t complain because they are quite reliable. Very interested to see how the range develops in TT and if Hornby can pull of this massive undertaking!
Thanks Harry. I wanted to stick with the controller as it was part of the train set.
Regards Charlie
Hornby are doing a disservice to their retailers by keeping it all in-house and like you said "All Hornby retailers should send their stock back " via their local Reps and we will then see a 25% share of the market shrink down to a 5% share.maybe, just a letter of intention by the retailers would do the same job. Martin. (Thailand)
Good idea, Martin, but I doubt if they would listen. Regards, Charlie
G'day Charlie,
I model narrow gauge at 1:48 and have no intention of changing however I watch your shows with interest as many ideas for modelling are not necessarily gauge specific. In short I am not entirely sure that Hornby have not made a mistake in launching a gauge/scale series that seems to offer a smaller range than the readily available and firmly established N gauge.
It is not the first time Hornby have marketed a locomotive with no front coupler. My first model train back in the 1950's was Hornby OO gauge and my first locomotive was the "Duchess of Montrose" - no front coupler and so put out to pasture relatively quickly in favour of the ubiquitous 0-6-0 tank that could couple for traffic in both directions. Perhaps, like Baldrick, they have a "cunning plan" to get customers to quickly invest in a loco with a front coupler.
Keep up the good work. Your shows are always worth watching.
Thanks David, I’m so pleased that you found the video interesting. I think we are all aware of Hornby‘s intention for market dominance, at the expense mainly of N-Gauge. Regards, Charlie
@@ChadwickModelRailway You said it : "at the expense mainly of N Gauge". My opinion too. As an already equipped N-gauger with many models (including UK ones !), I honestly would only be interested in TT the day I would want to model DR trains. For the UK in N, I am buying models I can't find properly manufactured in OO : class 17 and 35 in diesels (Heljan and EFE ones are a complete joke in OO) and, this month, 9F and 7MT Britannia for steam (guess who makes a model with an underpowered motor and a second one overpriced and undewheling in OO ? Begins with H...), and Dapol everyone (except the class 17, a decent EFE model, and a Graham Farish class 03). The same in TT 120, I have not seen yet. As the class 122 DMU and the Battle of Britain class I have in sight in N. Hornby is clearly fighting an uphill battle with a scale I'm starting to consider as ill-fitted for the UK market. 1/102.5 for a 14mm track would have been more suitable in my opinion, as a more in-between compared to UK OO/EM/P4 and UK N.
Thanks very much for this video on Hornby TT:120. Your style of presentation is always good and this is really useful. I had a brief dabble with N when I bult my son a small layout, but decided at the time that it was too small for me. Thirty years later and I still know that OO is the smallest scale I will consider, so TT:120 was never going to move me.
The common theme with Hornby TT:120 is an extension of Simon Kohler ego trip in OO as seen in the Dublo range as well as his other products. It is that glorious "Big 4" British Railways era of big pacifics, Mk 1 coaches and the ever present pullman cars. Your first mention of the Mk1 CKs epitomises that simply because the Triang era was the BSK and CK in the Mk1 range. Unless you model the Southern Region in the late 50s and early 60s, BSKs and CKs were very much the minority vehicles in your train formations, with a far greater ratio of normal second class vehicles like the SK and the TSO. So in my view theTT:120 creation has simply recreated the Triang OO trainset of BSK and CK. Perhaps small credit should be offered if the CKs have different running numbers !!!
As for the range - it clearly is now entirely on Hornby's investment strategy as regards locos, and maybe also dependent on Peco's product range for possible rolling stock. IMHO Peco will likely be more focused on the burgeoning 009 interest helped by "several" manufacturers of the scale. Traditionally, the purchase of a trainset, leading to purchase of further products to extend it, was a very popular way of getting people into the hobby. Hornby's total control of the TT:120 market through direct sell will IMHO be a big turnoff for many.
The trailing truck on the A4 seems to be a follow on from the OO theme of flangeless wheels so that the truck serves no other purpose than cosmetic, but as you point out, if the wheels don't rotate it looks a little silly.
I am 61 this month - born right in the last knockings of BR steam. My modeling interests are 1960-1975 but I can only remember seeing two BR steam events, and one of those was actually "preserved" in that my dad took me to Hinckley to see apple green 4472 on a charter train. The other was Hatton where I have distant memories of clapped out GW 4-6-0s and diesels. Anyone younger me will simply not remember steam in their lives, so will there be any interest in all those big four pacifics and pullman cars ? Perhaps Hornby really should be focusing on more modern rolling stock - mostly that which is not available in OO. Electrostars or PEPs are not available in OO, so perhaps those along with class 68 70 88 and 92 would bring younger people into their new scale.
Wholeheartedly agree with you video and your thoughts Charlie and have to say that this may well be Simon's "swansong" in the industry.
Phil, thank you so much for a brilliant comment. I am 64, and have no recollection of steam on the main line. Hence my modelling is based 1968 to 1974. Stay safe mate, regards, Charlie
Let's ignore the players, the quality flaws, and "train sets". We aren't "train set" people anyway. And let's presume that the scale is just "somewhere in between" N & HO/OO. What is the attraction of a scale in between HO & N? I think it comes down to why neither HO nor N owns 87% of the market.
1. N scale can be a bit fiddly to use the excellent UK English vernacular (greatest buzzwords anywhere!). This is exacerbated by age, which is very important because many of the people who seriously model railroads are usually in half #2 of their lives (something to do with money & time). This and the necessary lower detail has kept N scale from grabbing more of the HO scale market.
Not withstanding, N scale is a Godsend for those who simply don't have the space for HO/OO. A smaller HO/OO switching layout can be great fun, but many want more layout in their layout. N fits the bill.
2. HO became so popular for the same reason O-scalers love O gauge. Greater detail. Expansive views. Ease of modeling & maintaining compared to N. In the heady days of American split levels, basements in every other style house, the "spare room", and then the economic gains North America and Europe experienced in general from the 80s into the 2000s, HO became bigger.
But times are changing. Homes are getting smaller in the entire Western Empire, basements more cluttered or disappearing, and more people are living in condos & apartments. An in-between scale could be the answer for those who need smaller than HO, but bigger than N. Remember, N is half the scale, but only one-eighth the volume. You need 8 N scale locomotives to fill the space of one HO scale locomotive. The difference is bigger than scale makes it seem. Maybe 1:120 isn't the answer or (160-87)/2 1:123.5 scale. Maybe it's more like 1:105 or half volume. Still big enough to be detailed and easy, but fits in 25% less space. There is a need on the horizon.
As for doing it, no, this first attempt at revival may not happen. If a new in-between scale is to succeed, it'll take a 20-25 year concerted effort to make it work. And it won't be corporate cooperation that will make it successful. It'll be the pocket book demands of model railroaders.
What an excellent comment Frank.
Obviously, the scale in which we invest, is normally dictated by the space available and our wallet size closely followed by our age and childhood memories.
Life is always a compromise, but that shouldn’t be one by the manufacturer. Hornby have tried to produce, the best of both worlds. I do wish them luck, but I have serious doubts. Regards, Charlie
As somebody who has never built a model railway in any form I must say I absolutely enjoy watching you and others carry out your craft, I am the Grandfather of a nearly four year old grandson who through me is beginning to enjoy full size steam and all that goes with it, I don't have the space for your gauge of railway so am thinking about N gauge and having just listened to your views I will sometime in the future when the little fella is a bit older use N as the basis of a layout as there is already a good market, new and second hand of N gauge stuff to pick from, at my age 69 there is little time to sit around waiting for Hornby to get their act together.
I think that you have a sound plan for the future. Regards, Charlie
Another great video and good review. I totally agree with you about being a retailer and the only place I can see new money coming from is the extortionate prices they charge for their OO stuff. The quality leaves a lot to be desired and the blame lies squarely on hornby not the factory it was built in as hornby should be doing checks on quality control and not trusting it to others. I will stick with my HO stuff which has trailing bogies with flanges and the wheels touch the track and they go round as well.
Thanks John, I’m so pleased that you found it interesting. Regards Charlie
I don't see what tt120 brings to the table, in the 60s nodoubt it made sense over the challenges of making N work, but over half a century later N works now with digital and sound. So if I was starting out and say limited by space (are not houses smaller today) I would adopt the much better supported N. The result is that rather than Hornby stealing a bit of everybody's market they are going to get squeezed out of the market as they are going to be pouring cash into the TT120 hole for new tooling etc at the expense of their OO range along with Airfix and Scalelectric.
Excellent points, Graham. Regards, Charlie.
This has been a really useful presentation Charlie; and reinforced my decision to return to the hobby at N gauge. Only time will tell for TT:120.
You are right on the money, David. Regards, Charlie.
If the buyer’s preference is smaller than OO due to space constraints then surely the answer is the established range of N gauge with many many more suppliers. Hornby clearly missed the boat with N gauge and are playing catch up without entering the mature N gauge market. Like many others I do not believe there is 1:120 gap in the market that can’t be filled by the almost similar N gauge.
Thanks for the comment Gordon. However, I actually believe that the scale should’ve been 3 mm. Regards, Charlie
A very informative video Charlie. I must admit, I am not sold on the idea of TT:120. But as a O Gauge modeller who kit builds I'm rather hard for big corporations to sell too. I was a Marketing Exec in a previous job and as you have clearly stated, Hornby have seen a way of getting into a new market and provide a large amount of products. (including demonstrating and trying to sell the idea on there TV program) If there idea is to dominate & dictate the market in TT:120 then we may find that it becomes the core of the market for that guage meaning they posibley have to dedicate more time to TT:120 than in 00 which Hornby could be in a sticky situation.
I wonder if there's a video in talking about kit building Locos & Rolling Stock, as a younger person (27) we've grown up in a world where working with your hands isn't the first thing you can do, but working on the computer is. I do wonder if giving younger people encouragement to try out building something like a brass kit or teaching them CAD skills to build a locomotive/coach body shell could and is the way forward for some people. Just thought some open minded and creative thinking should and I think is openly being encouraged.
A great comment TL. As they say, a 3D Printer is the new age scratch builder. Regards, Charlie
Well done, great production in explaining this new scale warts and all. No front coupling, back to the days of Hornby Dublo under Meccano. Surely at least a socket in the front bogie was within budget.
I agree Ken, some aspects were shocking. Regards Charlie
Thank you Charlie. Most insightful. It will be fascinating to watch the take up of TT120. With most modellers heavily invested in their current scale of choice I anticipate that those who venture into TT120 will be train set buyers entering the hobby and perhaps a few existing modellers needing to downsize. For the latter, the present very limited TT120 range could well be an issue and N gauge with it's wider range of offerings may prove to be more attractive. I was absolutely staggered by some of the fundamental issues that you identified. For me, the dodgy track geometry is the biggest. A train set these days is a substantial investment. While TT120 may be attractive in terms of the space required compared with OO, if it more expensive and characterised by poor track work and unreliable running it is unlikely spark and retain new interest in the hobby. Indeed, an initial poor experience will probably turn people away. To establish a new gauge/scale the initial offerings need to be spot on and it seems that Hornby has fallen short of the mark. Time will tell!
An excellent, Adrian. I too believe Hornby has gone off half cocked. Regards, Charlie
To me the alarm bells sounded when the Hornby TV was delayed.
When this gauge was featured I noticed the A4 racing around the track without movement of the coupling rods!!!!! Clearly being pushed by something off camera.
Yes Mark, I noticed it as well, but it also happen the second time! Regards, Charlie
Thank you Charlie for your reflections on TT. Im so heavily invested in HO over here in Canada that will not even give it a second glance. I will definitely be keeping an eye on developments to see how it turns out.
I went for HO here in Scotland because OO is dreadful. Had this existed a couple of decades ago I may have stayed with British outline models.
Good, valid points gentlemen thank you. Regards, Charlie
I was talking to a fellow model rail friend a little while back and he confessed that he was worried that model rail manufacturers might, very soon, go out of business and put an end to our hobby.
He said, in his opinion, he put this down to the fact that the younger generation were not interested in this "old school" hobby.
Up to a point, he is probably correct.
I then asked him how many locomotives does he own.... He replied... "About 70 or so"
"Do they all still run?" I asked. "Oh yes, of course they do" he retorted.
"Do you still run them on a regular basis? - "Yes, of course" he said.
I then asked him... "How old are you John?" - "I am 72" he replied..
To which I said - "Well I am 70... so why should we worry about the future of the manufacturers?..we both own operational model trains and we are in our twilight years. The manufacturers future, should matter naught to us really. "
An excellent comment, DN. Although, I do feel some sadness for the younger modeller . Regards, Charlie
Agree with your points Charlie. The coaches provided should be at least appropriate to a real train. Not a cost cutting exercise. I'm getting back into the train modelling way and are quite happy with my PECO track, but I do have some Hornby trains and rolling stock, but steer away from Hornby track, especially points. I like to see at first what I'm getting for my buck so only conducting Hornby online/stockist will instantly lose my attention and custom!
Keep up the good work. Your UA-cam videos have me riveted. As also an ex serviceman. You say it as it is! Spot on!!
Thanks Thomas, for such a heartwarming comment. Regards, Charlie
Great video Charlie. I was seriously tempted to investigate a layout in TT120 but when you go on the website only the two sets are available everything else says pre order. I believe it was going to be released this spring but the last time i looked it now says available winter 24-25. Not a very auspicious start i would suggest. Lots of bluster and not enough planning.
James, you’re bang on. Regards, Charlie
I’m new to the world of trains. My family got me a OO set for Christmas, they knew I was getting close to jumping In myself so they gave me a nudge 😝
Having no knowledge about the hobby. I think I may have gone with the TT:120 if I was buying for myself. Seems a lot more practical to me in terms of space etc. I’m not put off by the direct sales approach or the lack of products as I see it as a entry in to the hobby I may or may not get into it seriously. So in the short term it would be fine for learning the ropes imo. I’m fully aware I’ve just stepped on a very slippery slope and could be spending silly money on a hobby and my opinions will probably change 😂 I will lie to my wife about the price of stuff just like I do with fishing tackle and bicycles 🤦🏼♂️😝🤫
Shrewd move Richard, happy wife is a happy life! Regards, Charlie
Thank you for the video. I have bought quite a lot of TT products now and although beautiful I really don’t feel it’s much better than the others, what you gain in space from OO you lose in availability of scenic products and the advantage over N is minimal, at least N has second hand products available.
Thanks Marc for your honesty.
Regards Charlie
Appreciate the honesty in this video Charlie. It was very interesting. We do not get that level of analysis and thought in our magazines. Those questions need asked. Well done.
Thanks PG. I’m so pleased that you found it interesting. Regards, Charlie
Thank you for some well-considered thoughts. I am attracted to TT120 because of its accurate gauge - almost finescale. And it is 25% bigger than N (which Hornby did not do). However, I am puzzled by the exclusive focus on express passenger locomotives. What is supposed to haul Hornby's new PO wagons? I thought I might be part of the 'new money', but there just is nothing to interest me yet on the freight side.
As a branchline modeller, myself, I found nothing of interest now in the TT 120 offer by Hornby. Not even something as cliché as a GWR pannier tank...
I couldn’t agree more gentlemen. It would have been nice to see an 08 and freight wagons in the early release. Regards, Charlie
Like most people over 65, I think of model railways and Hornby as one and the same.Although there have been odd hiccups in quality and so on, generally speaking they are a trusted and 'collectable' manufacturer that many people invest heavily in. So frankly, if they think they are going to attract new people into the hobby but can't even be bothered to supply an accurate circle of track, they must be bonkers. These are the sort of Chinese style toys that end up at the bottom of the toy box by the first of January. It may also have been helpful Charlie to make a more detailed comparison to the Peco product ? I think you could be off Hornby's Xmas card list, but good for you!
Thanks Peter, I must confess I was mortified to find the circle didn’t even join. Regards, Charlie
Hi Peter, it’s a report of a product straight out of the box. Perhaps we should expect better from the market leader. Regards Charlie
@@Haymarket47 I'm sorry but, here, it's like buying a computer keyboard with the vowels missing. German manufacturers, Japanese ones (I have Tomix and Kato track) and Peco for the UK in OO/HO and N, had no issues like this with their settracks. Having a circle that is something like 370 degrees instead of 360, sorry, but that won't fly for me. Why does Hornby botch something as straightforward as a circle of tracks ?
I saw the new Hornby 1 / 120 being shown and demonstrated last Autumn at the Gaydon Model Railway Show, the track is good enough for running trains same as with Hornby OO track but the points were deadfrog which I would not use, for anyone wanting more realistic track and livefrog points then use Peco, also Rails of Sheffield are selling TILLIG track products as a alternative.
@@Haymarket47Thanks for the ageist comment, you sound like someone who can't understand the meaning of simple English. I have great respect and veneration for most Hornby products as my comment implies. If you mean I have an unrealistic expectation that when you buy an Hornby product I expect it to work perfectly then it's you they're trying to fool, not me. Charlie bought a box and opened it and off he went..' I can't think of a better way to market test a product and he's quite entitled to draw conclusions from that.
Excellent video again Charlie and I agree with your assessments regarding the future. Having gone DCC with sound I have enough trouble at my age fitting the sound decoders and decent speakers into my OO gauge so TT120 won't be for me.
You’re pushing on an Open Door on this one HS. Regards, Charlie
Great video Very informative. It was great to see the size comparison between the gauges shows Hornby haven’t thought this through very well, if your going that much smaller than OO you might as well get N gauge with more availability, better pieces, different manufacturers, and more railway for your space. Hornby may have been better off doing a small range of N gauge as there is already a market an they could focus on areas that have not been focused on by other manufacturers. And it is a huge mistake in my opinion for Hornby to effectively turn their back on the model shops that in some way or another are pivotal in getting people started in the hobby. See you in 2 weeks
A great comment, AV. We clearly sing from the same songsheet mate. Regards, Charlie
Hi, Good Morning Charlie, many thanks for another very informative video ( punishment 😀). I enjoyed it as always but this time, rather than feeling inspired and ready to tackle a part of the build that I'd been putting off, I felt a little sad 😔 and here's why.......
( PS, I just read this back..... you might want to grab a cuppa, sorry I go on a bit 😅)
Watching this episode was a little bit like being a teenager 'in love'. Deep down you know the girl of your dreams actually isn't but you just remember all the good times you had together and forget those nagging doubts and all the things other people say about her. Then one day someone sits you down with evidence and explains to you exactly what she's been upto!!!!
In the brilliant way that you explain things ( procedures, how to, technical, do's and don'ts etc ) ..... that's exactly what you did for me 👍
As a nipper I had a Hornby set, a little oval with a small siding. It had a little 060 tank engine with 3 wagons. It stopped at a Hornby station, when the Hornby signal gave the ok, it left the station going past the Hornby signal box before going through the Hornby tunnel and back to the station.
I absolutely loved it....... God only knows how many happy hours I spent watching that little engine go round.
So fast forward to a 50 ish year old Russ, ready to relive those happy days and build a proper model railway. Armed with nothing more than memories and a 'desire' if you will. I went to my local model shop and found a copy of Hornby Track Plans and Catalogue for that year and started to picture how my dreams would become reality.
I found a fantastic deal on amazon ( at time they were selling a train set made by my 'beloved Hornby ' containing the Iconic Flying Scotsman 😍 for a around £140) ....... I could afford that and the set was ordered !!!
I was still along off completing the baseboards but this set offered me everything I needed to start my journey but most importantly, it was made by Hornby.
With baseboards completed.... the time came to assemble the little set. It was brilliant to watch the Scotsman go round and around in my garage. ❤️
Now then, I travel a fair bit for my job, so whenever time and money allowed I would find a model shop in that location to buy a few pieces of track ( to grow the set, into the track plan that I had decided on).
When I told the people in the shops what I was doing and that I wanted Hornby track, I was surprised to say the least by their reactions. They all seemed to wonder why i wanted Hornby. I should have seen the warning signs..... but I was in love 🤦♂️🤦♂️
It wasn't until a trip to Buffers where they kindly unboxed a set of Hornby points and a set of Peco points and asked me to check the difference in switching the points, that 'the penny began to drop'
I didn't buy any more Hornby track after that but unfortunately many lengths of Hornby Track had already been laid.
When my 2 loops were finally completed, my radius sections did exactly what yours did and lift on the inner edges. I blamed myself!!!!! 'New boy error' I thought. Don't worry it will be fine. I'm sure they'll sit nicely when they are pinned down.
How wrong I was......
Now then, please bear in mind that only a third of my track has been pinned down so far ( basically the section just before, through and after where my tunnel will pass through the hillside). I thought that as this area will be covered, it would make the perfect place to learn and practice some new skills. So I soldered droppers, cut cork to track width, weathered the track and ballasted it. ( I must say, I loved ❤️ every minute of learning these new techniques.... what a fantastic hobby!!! ).
Just so you know Charlie, when I pinned these pieces of track down, it was done really carefully, measured etc. Yet when I connected them back up with the rest of the loops there was now a problem. The outer loop did what your circle did and overlapped and due to the physical constraint of a double railway crossing the inner loop was now too short and wouldn't connect up any more!!!!
Yup, you've guessed it....... I still blamed myself for this, it must have been something that I'd done wrong!!! I mean how could someone who's been modelling for 5 minutes ever think that someone who's been making the stuff for decades, could manufacture it so badly?????
So thank you Charlie for showing us so clearly with the circle of track just how rubbish Hornby is. That level of manufacture is completely unacceptable. The Track is very thing our locomotives run on and all our layouts develope from or evolve around.
And don't even get me started on them telling you to read the important safety notes on page 8 of a 4 page leaflet......
It beggers belief, honestly!!!!!!
Needless to say " It's Over " me and Hornby are finished!!!! 😆😆
Thanks once again Charlie, your videos and "approach " are absolutely spot on 👍
Kindest regards
Russ
What an excellent, although very wordy comment Russ. Very much appreciated, regards, Charlie
I just want to comment on the issue with the dreaded page 8.
This could be me and just having bad experience with the little work experience I have as a designer, but the tldr I think could have caused that issue is basically management.
When I was a designer at an undisclosed company, it was basically my job to do all of the itenaries, they were mass produced and used various templates depending on the photo layout that you wanted to the text layout. I designed the template, I simply sat down for 8 hours a day and replaced the template images with new ones with basic colour correction.
I would suspect that something like that is a template in Photoshop or whatever software they used (or a regular png that's been rasterised already) then given to management to do what they seem fit. And from experience, my management never read through it as a lot of the information across these booklets, because most if not all information remains the same. Or, even worse - they give templates like these to a minimal wage worker to sort through it.
I could be reading into it a bit much, I might not. But regardless -
What probably happened is that a larger, less affordable set was used to grab the template from, and whoever does the product management before putting it into the box probably just never checked and did basic QC. Same thing is applicable with the corners too TBH.
I imagine that it was a simple cut-and-paste job. Thanks for your comment, regards, Charlie
Dear Charlie, I don't know if it hasn't been mentioned previously in the comments, a majority of the "bad" locomotive motor noise is due to that (and the previous silver) Hornby controller. I presume that it is a well known fact among train set buyers that Hornby haven't really done a quality (i.e. no whirring motor noise) controller since the early 2000s with the old "black brick" style controller. In any case, if someone were to buy a Hornby train set it is the controller that needs replacing, not the locomotive. (I may get corrected for this) Hornby have never been known to put out a [excluding the OO 0-4-0s that need extra lead weight in them] bad train set locomotive, just "el cheapo" controllers. (If one where cynical, why would Hornby spend money on improving DC train set controllers and lose sales of their DCC equipment.)
An informative review as as always, thank you.
Thanks for the information Vincent. All I could do was a review of the complete train set. However, a great deal of the noise came from the coaches and both the coaches. Also the locomotive had its speed restricted on the curves. Regards, Charlie
16:51 “buy this for son/grandson”. Intentional or not, an example of the casual misogyny ingrained in the hobby. My two previously-railway-obsessed daughters are starting to notice, in UA-cam videos about the hobby, and every time they attend an exhibition or heritage railway centre, and it’s starting to put them off the hobby.
Well said, my daughter builds Metcalfe kits faster than I can buy them, my son isn't remotely interested on trains anymore.
Thank you so much James, for picking me up on this one. It’s clearly a case of unconscious bias. I really need to get this matter addressed. Regards, Charlie
was looking at these for getting back into the hobby since my childhood days, a very helpful, informative, and entertaining video! Your attention to detail is highly appreciated, to many people it feels like nit picking but it's worth highlighting. The negative cant on the curves resulting from the manufacturing defect is obscene, not what I remember of Hornby quality at all!
Yes, I totally agree, they seem to have gone off Halfcocked on this development. Regards, Charlie
Absolutely precision analysis Charlie with a faultless and sincere presentation. 🏅
Thanks Martin, that’s very kind of you to say so mate. Regards, Charlie
@@ChadwickModelRailway Kind friend. You can't legislate for idiots. Too much money, so little empathy.
Now put those sausage rolls down and get on with the job. LP
When I became a model railroader around 1960 N scale did not exist. In the US there were O, S, HO, and TT, with TT being restricted to scratchbuilding craftsmen. After N scale came out TT disappeared here. And S scale, never all that strong, all but disappeared when the primary manufacturer in S scale, AC Gilbert, stopped making American Flyer train sets. So history suggests that an "in between" scale has a tough time surviving. Also, for someone who doesn't give reviews, you gave that train set a proper review, Charlie! The warts you found were just the kind of stuff that would bother me, as well. Cheers from Wisconsin!
Thanks Andrew, I’m so pleased that you found the review interesting. Regards Charlie
Another great video Charlie and I agree with your comments about Hornby's retailing strategy. I do think they have missed a trick in going with 1:120 instead of good old 3mm TT. As you say 1:120 is too close to N gauge. Lets see what happens in the wash.
Thanks Julian, I’m so pleased that you found it interesting. I think that we both sing from the same song sheet regarding this scale. Regards, Charlie
@@ChadwickModelRailway Add me for the background vocals... Sorry to repeat me over and over again, but, for the UK market, a clever choice would have been, in my opinion, a 1/102.5 scale on a 14mm track.
A very interesting video indeed Charlie. I've just got my Eastener set. I found the loco ran a bit rough & noisey on the supplied Hornby controller, but it is a cheapo controller. After running the loco in on DC, I installed a Zimo MX659N18 sound decoder with a MrSoundguy sound file & speaker in the tender. The loco now performs perfectly! No odd noises, just good running. I'm a dedicated HO, OO and 12" to the ft scale modeller and am very impressed with this first offering. Compared to another European TT firm, Tillig, the price of the locos is quite reasonable (about £100 less).
Keep up the great work!
Thanks BF and good luck with yours.
Regards Charlie
Seeing all three side by side by side really puts things into a new light for me.
I was honestly expecting more of a midpoint, but TT is too close to N for me to really put much further thought in
I understand your point of you, and I had similar thoughts. If the scale of been 3 mm it would’ve been much more of a midpoint scale. Regards, Charlie
@@ChadwickModelRailway Spot on there Charlie. That's what I asked Krohler when I spoke to him last year and he called 3mm the Bas***d scale!
@charlesmartin6614 3mm would have eliminated European sales opportunities with their European brands as tt:120 is fairly popular on the continent. Given the risk it makes sense. Plus people is making items in tt:120.
To quantify the curved track error, if you look at the anticlockwise end of one piece of track, the inside rail is approximately 0.5mm shorter than it should be relative to the outside rail. This angle error is quite large.
Yes David, that’s correct. I pity the person who signed this one off. Regards, Charlie
@@ChadwickModelRailway I hope not too much track is in store like this.
Hear hear! I can’t believe the contempt that Hornby seems to have for its retailers. My local shop (Harburn Hobbies in Edinburgh) were so helpful when I returned to the hobby ten years ago - without the commitred retailers I’m not sure the hobby has a particularly attractive future. Hornby should be careful of what they wish for…
We clearly seen from the same song sheet on this from BH. Where would we be without our model shops? Regards Charlie
Interesting take. I definitely made a smart move when I dumped Hornby oo and moved into N gauge. They would have been better competing in N gauge outright and overall bringing quality back. It seems reading the indicators, like the death of oo scale is upon us especially given their ptofit issues.However if only Hornby would focus on quality and reliability things would change for the better especially looking at the imperfections in that TT set.
Perhaps they will do better now that they’ve had a change in senior management. Regards, Charlie
You should be put in charge of Hornby business development immediately!
Absolutely agree with what you say.
Very interesting and thought-provoking.
When deciding to return after 30+ years to build a model railway, the first consideration is scale. N gauge would mean I could have more in the restricted space I have. However, the price of engines, etc, is in a lot of cases greater than '00'. So '00' was the way I went because of the availability of pre-loved stock to make it as cost-effective as possible. I also felt age had caught up with me, and my eyesight and hand dexterity would be a problem in N gauge. My belief in restricting a product to just one manufacturer and one distribution outlet is a risky strategy in these financialy uncertain times, unless you can make it more affordable than other scales already established and to get many existing modellers and new/returning to change to it. Hornby has not priced this at a level where I can afford to change and probably can not do this for commercial reasons. The people I have discussed this subject with will not scrap an '00' layout with stock built over many years to start again with a scale that if it doesn't return what Hornby shareholders expect they'll stop production and leave the customer with no where to go. I think it will be a few years looking at what Hornby produces, what other ancillary products are manufactured to enhance this scale before I would consider starting again. Unti then I'll stick with '00' and enjoy playing trains.
I think that you’ve taken a sensible and guarded approach Steve. Good on you, regards, Charlie
Sup[er video, thank you. I'm very keen on entering the model railway hobby space, but I'm just so confused. I'm fifty-two, and happy to spend a few quid, but now I've started looking onto it, the fact Hornby product is now made in China is a major turn-off. Similarly, that there are no model shops near me is again an unhappy circumstance of society at the moment.
I'm very keen on TT:120 given the smaller scale and lower demand for space, but I've now heard Hornby is in financial trouble.
I also note with concern your comments about the lack of QA in the instruction manual and the poor quality track.
I am, indeed, conflicted.
Many thanks for your interesting comment JR. However, on Friday, my latest video might be of particular interest to you. Regards, Charlie
I feel that hornby would be better off selling these in toy stores like smyths, a new gauge works well for people new to the hobby, get the young kids on to 120, and they are on to a winner.. but selling it to existing oo customers isn't going to work.. hiding it on the website, is not the place parents(from outside the hobby) are going to find it for their kids..
An excellent point P77.
Regards Charlie