Charlie Bishop onm the Chadwick Model Railway channel did a review this week on a Hornby TT:120 train set. He tried to make a circle of track and found there was a massive overlap, so when he joined it up, it forced it out of alignment by a significant amount.
Yes, I saw that too. You end up with a raised inner rail on the curves. It looks like that track needs to be pinned down to a board to stop that problem. Off course Hornby claim that its OK.
Peco manufacture in the UK but are no more expensive. Speaks volumes about some firms profiteering. Just as dapol do some assembly work at least in Chirk yet are cheaper than some others.
@@insomniacbritgaming1632 The subject of this video has nothing to do with your uneducated statement. Put down the controller and start reading would be my advice.
That was a really interesting watch Simon! From your comparison I think Peco is definitely the way to go for a permanent TT layout, unless it's an actual table top layout, as I find gentle curved points to be the enemy of space! Obviously you need more room to complete the curve - unless you drastically reduce the radius leaving the point, which rather defeats their purpose! Haha! The "Bridge of Doom" was definitely a perilous construct! Glad everyone survived the journey! All the best, Ian.
Thanks Ian, yes if (when 😁) I build a little TT layout it will have to be Peco track I think. It was nerve-wracking but I think the 'bridge of doom' added a certain excitement to the video 😂
Haven't checked the rest of the comments, but I'm probably not the first to experience a warm fuzzy feeling to see that you own a copy of Kernighan & Ritchie :D
Just a comment about meauring using the digital calipers. If you measure the width of one sleeper and zero the reading at that setting you can then measure the spacing as you were over the outside of the two sleepers but you have automatically already subtracted one sleeper width digitally. Just saves any error which may arise through arithmetic. This tip is also useful for other functions of the caliper.
An interesting and informative experiment. The Health and Safety policy is sadly lacking in Simon's Shed. You must have scared the pants of that loco's crew! Thanks for uploading.
@@SimonsShed I made that mistake with the first layout I built in the loft. I was just testing a School's Class on a length of track that was not securely on the baseboard, but that loco is top heavy and it tipped over and fell onto the floor!
Interesting comparison, thank you. One tip when using a vernier gauge, when measuring internal dimensions, you can use the other side of the gauge to get accurate results 👍
Thanks for the info 👍 Apparently you can measure height/depth with the end too...I should have read the instructions before the video , not afterwards 😅
Very helpful, and dealt with some of my own questions too. Thanks for taking the time, though I could hardly watch when it was all going over the “bridge of doom”! Hoping to add a little info on my fledgling MacTrains channel in a few weeks.
Track setter for TT120 is available from West Hill Wagon Works. They do other track laying accessories too which really help with getting everything laid correctly. Hope that helps
Interesting video. The Peco point blades look to have a smaller 'flange gap' at the toe end than the Hornby - the Peco looks even nicer in this respect than the current N-gauge points.
Fantastic! Made my mind up to go Peco all the way. 👍 Love 'The C Programming Language' book for the bridge! Might skim through my copy now for a few more pointers... 😉🤭
Thanks for that video Simon been waiting for Hornby straight track for months but now know that peco fits ok will be ordering peco straight track so I can get on with my layout again thanks
In OO I only ever use Peco points despite the price difference. I just bought a bunch of Peco flex track and points to supplement my TT120 digital Easterner when it arrives. My decision was based on your review. Thanks
Good review Simon, for me Peco every day, Hornby cheated with using two sections to make a longer length of setrack (the sane as they do with OO gauge) the point blades (Swing area) looks far better on the Peco over the Hornby. On another note taking apart your track will make the fish-plates loose & add to more track curcuit failures!
When I built my first 00 layout 5 years ago I used Hornby set-track all barring one short piece of straight and two Peco points. I wish now I had used all Peco track as the uni frog and greater selection of complex track pieces would have been better all around. Not so, however as I was given a couple of Hornby train sets (Xmas & birthday), so I had started with quite a bit of Hornby set-track, also not withstanding, my grand children gave me some Hornby expansion track sets as well.
When I built mine, many years ago, I used PECO flexi. It had realistic radius curves, never a derail. A nice gentle S curve through the station. A few compound curves, points & sidings .I made some compasses out of strips of thin ply with an axis hole one end & various holes for circumferences. This made making curved tracks a snap' As in easy, not braking things. I don't see the need for all these plastic templates. Just my 2 cents worth.
Dear Simon, love the comparison, humbly think the Peco track looks much, much better than the Hornby version. Especially those awkward sleepers they’ve put in the middle of the set track pieces look horrendous. Further, they should have learned by now, that the rail chairs can indeed be as small as their competitor’s. Would be interesting if you would also compare Trix or Arnold track in TT. What truly sets me off from the entire Hornby TT initiative, is that they only sell this scale through their designated TT web portal. Excluding hobby shops to sell their TT products isn’t the way to go. Rather is it a kind of odd way of thinking. Especially for a company which is so brazen on its efforts for innovation in model railroading. Still am of the opinion it’s a kind of ‘Lionel’ step to secure this market niche as an old school monopolist. Companies like Hornby should support hobby shops, rather than attempt to phase ‘m out. So, overall love your vid, but most definitely have my own thoughts on H’s TT re-introduction. Cheerio
A some points about Hornby's decision to make it online only: 1) Hornby have said they discussed it with some of the model shops who were happy for Hornby to take the initial risk. Buying in a load of Hornby TT stock which may or may not sell is a big risk for the model shops until it gets established. It sounds like the model shops are okay with this for the moment. 2) Hornby have made a huge investment and taken all the risk so it seems fair they get the reward. 3) Cutting out the middleman means Hornby can price TT competitively which will boost initial sales and help the gauge get established. It also allows Hornby to do discounts and offers without upsetting the model shops, something they can't do with OO. 4) TT is already popular in the US, Europe and Japan, so unlike OO is a world market. In this age of internet shopping it makes sense to have it online. 5) Hornby have said they may well bring the model shops in at a later date. In Australia it's actually being sold to via a retailer that Hornby have a long relationship with, which shows they are open to the idea. Currently Hornby have a monopoly of TT, but in order to make a success of it will need to make it affordable compared to other gauges. Keeping it all in house will help them do this. Remember Hornby have been posting losses each financial year for some time so they need to make TT a success, plus make it attractive to newbies. TT has a lot of advantages over OO for Hornby: - It takes up less room making it more attractive for people new to the hobby. - The small size also means transport costs are reduced, baring in mind these have gone up 500%+ since Covid. - It's a world market as opposed to a mainly UK one. - They're not missing out on sales to the secondhand market or rivals and whilst this will change over time it will take a while. - The age profile for OO customers is quite elderly and they're not being replaced by younger modellers. What happens when they pass on? Hornby need a new customer base and are hoping TT will encourage more people into the hobby. Surely a good thing. I hope it's a success, though how successful it will be in getting new people into the hobby remains to be seen.
Hi Simon enjoyed that very much. Would have been interesting to see the result in the opposite direction to see the loco going over the Lego point from the trailing end (I think I’ve got that right ) But probably wouldn’t have made a difference. Thanks for a useful video
Thanks for the review, it's always been Peco track for me. The reason you had trouble pushing the track ontot the point at 14.06 is the inner side of the upper fishplate is not engaged on the base of the rail. Only the outer edge engaged. Again at 16.13 the fishplate is under the rail.
Thanks for this video buddy. I was toying with getting into railway modelling with TT-120. I don't have a great deal of space to play with. I would have to organise a board and somewhere to put it. Anyway, I have put the idea on hold for now. Can't afford it lol. Maybe in the future. Love your pile of books solution lol. You have my sub, and I will check out your other videos.
It seems Hornby have decided to model the look of their TT track based on their OO track which looks like toy train track. As this is a brand new design and new tooling required, it seems ashame not to at least tried to make it look like real track. I suppose they made this decision to make it look like toy train track rather than having to choose British outline, Continental or American, in the belief that they would not be restricted to one geographic market? The Hornby stuff looks like overpriced 1970's rubbish. Love the use of the "C" programing book! Nice video, thanks for uploading.
A good and very useful video. I understood that Peco was code 55 and Hornby code 80, but you're saying that's wrong. I also asked Simon Kholer at Warley if the two were compatable and was told not at present as they were slightly different heights. However clearly that's not correct either. I do like Peco's unifrog points. Twice the price but I guess you get what you pay for. I understand both manufacturers have more track in the pipeline. Hornby have double straights, flexit track and different radius curves and I think both intend to bring out additional point sizes. Overall I agree Peco track looks the way to go.
The Peco track has been around for decades. I have some Peco TT track & points that I bought back in the late 1990's. It's used for HOm, OOy, TT 3mm. & now TT 120. I also use Tillig points.
A very useful review - thank you. While I have an established liking for Peco track, in all gauges and a powerful dislike of monstrous dead frogs, at the SHOCKING price of these Peco points I would expect the guard rails to be metal rail and not plastic. That price is beyond ridiculous, even moreso than Hornby's rip-offs for short straights. It is anough to turn thoughts of vhanging to TT Gauge completely OFF.
Excellent piece Simon, thank you. It confirms what in my gut I thought might be true and I feel vindicated in my decision back in December to choose to only by the locos & stock from Hornby. Not just because buying like that means I actually get sound & DCC fitted & lights in the carriages but also I get the actual loco I always wanted back in 1978 (when I was 10) namely the “Flying Scotsman” NB I “built” my dream layout on AnyRail both in Hornby & Peco 1:120 and the savings on the straights more than made up for the expense of the better turn outs in Peco. Ps I’m now running through your back catalog, all very good and I’m hoping for more TT from you. Perhaps buildings etc? (Might just wake Metcalfe up) 😂
Thanks and yes, there will be more TT 120 videos coming soon, it seems to be proving popular! Don't tell anyone but I may have started planning a little TT layout 😀🚂
When I worked on the big weekend possessions, dropping the new concrete sleepers on the mainline, depending on the traffic levels, we would have a spacing of either 300mm or 450mm.
The Hornby Sleeper plastic is a Half Standard Lenght...2 sleeper mouldings make one Standard length set track...economy of injection mould units. Peco have a long history of correct track making, Hornby consortium gets everything made in China now... Enuff said... DocAV from Down under...0n42" 1:48 scratch builder. Past experience in HO, Sn42, HOe...and Hornby Tinplate 0 gauge ( 1950s)
12mm track produced by Peco was actually for HOm gauge. They have relabelled it to fit in with the new development of TT. The same track is used for meter gauge railways such as the Rhaetian Railway in Switzerland. I use this on my HOm layout and there are pin holes. Peco also produce 'Electrofrog' turnouts which of course requires different circuit wiring. It seems that Peco have increased their prices. I never have paid £18 for a turnout.
No. It's completely new track. The rail is different: it has the double web of the N-gauge streamline. The sleeper spacing is correct for 1:120 not 1:87.
What is the track planning software you are using Simon? It looks a lot more intuitive than Railmodeller Express that I am trying to get my head round!
Interesting. However, I have a pack of Peco SL-310 N/009/TT fishplates (bought ages ago for a 009 layout, that can be used here), and none of the fishplates are fitting onto the Hornby track. I don't have any Peco track yet, but I may need to use Hornby fishplates to go between the two types.
still the case of if you want a good basic trackwork on a layout , bin the hornby and lay peco ,, hornby is ok for kids on the floor till they progress to a layout
An interesting comparison though I suppose for a fairer like for like comparison you'd have to wait for Hornby to release their flexible TT track. I'm surprised the two systems are compatible as I was lead to believe the Peco system is of a finer scale but now it's clear they are both Code 55. It would be good if Hornby could make an agreement with Peco and get them to make track for them as in the case of OO setrack the two systems are almost identical. The good thing with the Peco system is that it's manufactured in the UK. One distadvantage of setrack in most gauges is that funny unrealistic joined sleeper. I'm not sure what the reasoning behind that is. I can remember when Hornby first introduced Code 100 setrack (what they then called System 6 Track) back in the early 70s they didn't have those strange sleepers.
True, will be interesting to see what the Hornby flexi track is like and how it compares to Peco's. I'll have to do an update video when that arrives. Thanks for watching 👍
Did you realise that you can use the outside measuring points on the new micrometer gauge to measure the sleeper spacing without having to do any complex subtracting!?! Bob M.
@@SimonsShed I started with a Tillig starter set around 3 years ago. I bought it in Budapest and my retailer said that when amazon finally comes to hungary too prices will possibly go down and not waiting weeks for something to arrive from germany. The problem here is that the population is not that wealthy as a british or a french.
I would use any points EXCEPT Peco. The blades of Peco points work harden at the toe over time and you end up with useless flapping point ends. They are not pivoted, they are moulded into the tie bar. The number of Peco points I've had to replace on friends layouts over the years is in the hundreds.
Interesting Simon, although I’ve always viewed Hornby track as train set track and Peco track as model railway track. Good comparisons though and interesting video as usual especially as the Flying Scotsman took the bend over the chairs😬🤦🏻♂. Cheers Simon, John
Cheers John, yes totally agree, the Hornby track is great for beginners but as soon as you want to pin/glue some track down on a layout its Peco all the way. Glad you liked the 'bridge of doom', I thought it would add a bit of excitement to the video 😅
It seems risky launching a new gauge. Wouldn't it have been easier to go back into n? I guess they are thinking they would have no competition to start with but it could flop massively.
From OO experience Peco points throw better and run smoother. Hornby is trainset material, Peco is Model railway material. Peco all the way, and they are based in Beer!
Great review - thanks✌️👍😊 It all runs nice and smoothly 👍✌️😊 But...... Both track systems still seem to appear crude and the sleepers don't look long enough, they look more "continental" akin to the perennial and thus inaccurate HO/OO RTL track system from Peco et al. Which I find disappointing (if my perceptions are correct)🤔🤔 How many years has it taken for Peco to produce a decent OO bullhead? And only then when nudged by the EM Society commission work?🤔🤔🙄💔 I'll reserve full judgement until I see it ballasted somewhere ✌️✌️
Hi Simon. Thanks for the video comparison which was good, but unfortunately you didn't show the UNDERSIDE of the Hornby Point which I wanted to see to compare the current transfer connections between the fixed and moving rails. I COULD see the Unifrog point underside, but not the Hornby one. Shame.
I would have had the top point facing the other way just in case it was set wrong resulting in the whole train nosedived onto the floor. 😲 The odd sleepers in the middle of the Hornby track are because they're for two half straights. They just use the same webbing to save money. I note that neither Hornby or Peco have taken the opportunity to improve their track systems. It looks like they've just scaled down the 00 track. They could have got rid of those ugly elbows in the movable parts of the points for instance.
Yes, I think you're right. You'd think Hornby, in particular, would've put the effort in to make sure this track was just right since they've gone to such expense already by investing in a new market which they don't even know yet will pay off for them.
Yes I think there is a bit of cost-saving going on there. Managed to film the video without any trains ending up on the floor so a good result I think. Thanks for watching 😀
I still think the track looks wrong even though the scale is right compared to 00......even 00 finescale looks better so i think they should have used a lower code rail. Looks way too chunky.......
prefer the horby track as peco is hard to cut sleepers without cutting the rail too. The points arrived this morning and have built junction at acton wells today with 3 more points and diamonds to complete. using the sheffield track sector system for curves.
It’s everyone’s choice, made in uk or made in China! Of cause it’s rather ironic that an ENGLISH COMPANY chooses to use a Chinese manufacturer for their products!
Charlie Bishop onm the Chadwick Model Railway channel did a review this week on a Hornby TT:120 train set. He tried to make a circle of track and found there was a massive overlap, so when he joined it up, it forced it out of alignment by a significant amount.
Yes, I saw that too. You end up with a raised inner rail on the curves. It looks like that track needs to be pinned down to a board to stop that problem. Off course Hornby claim that its OK.
I would definitely use Peco. It’s made here in the UK and therefore, less of a carbon footprint.
Peco manufacture in the UK but are no more expensive. Speaks volumes about some firms profiteering. Just as dapol do some assembly work at least in Chirk yet are cheaper than some others.
Erm... the carbon footprint thing is a myth 🤦♂️ you know the planet needs Co2 to survive right?
@@insomniacbritgaming1632 The subject of this video has nothing to do with your uneducated statement. Put down the controller and start reading would be my advice.
@@justinmijnbuis Except that he is correct.
@@insomniacbritgaming1632 Err ... you know humans need water to survive, but try telling that to someone who's drowning.
That was a really interesting watch Simon! From your comparison I think Peco is definitely the way to go for a permanent TT layout, unless it's an actual table top layout, as I find gentle curved points to be the enemy of space! Obviously you need more room to complete the curve - unless you drastically reduce the radius leaving the point, which rather defeats their purpose! Haha! The "Bridge of Doom" was definitely a perilous construct! Glad everyone survived the journey! All the best, Ian.
Thanks Ian, yes if (when 😁) I build a little TT layout it will have to be Peco track I think. It was nerve-wracking but I think the 'bridge of doom' added a certain excitement to the video 😂
From the U.S., I choose Peco. The detail & quality are both very noticeable.
Haven't checked the rest of the comments, but I'm probably not the first to experience a warm fuzzy feeling to see that you own a copy of Kernighan & Ritchie :D
Just a comment about meauring using the digital calipers. If you measure the width of one sleeper and zero the reading at that setting you can then measure the spacing as you were over the outside of the two sleepers but you have automatically already subtracted one sleeper width digitally. Just saves any error which may arise through arithmetic. This tip is also useful for other functions of the caliper.
Can’t beat Peco
An interesting and informative experiment. The Health and Safety policy is sadly lacking in Simon's Shed. You must have scared the pants of that loco's crew! Thanks for uploading.
😂 just relieved it didn't all end up on the floor! 🚂
@@SimonsShed I made that mistake with the first layout I built in the loft. I was just testing a School's Class on a length of track that was not securely on the baseboard, but that loco is top heavy and it tipped over and fell onto the floor!
Interesting comparison, thank you. One tip when using a vernier gauge, when measuring internal dimensions, you can use the other side of the gauge to get accurate results 👍
Thanks for the info 👍 Apparently you can measure height/depth with the end too...I should have read the instructions before the video , not afterwards 😅
@@SimonsShed It's a really nifty tool. It was a key part of making oboe reeds for me at one time.
Very helpful, and dealt with some of my own questions too. Thanks for taking the time, though I could hardly watch when it was all going over the “bridge of doom”! Hoping to add a little info on my fledgling MacTrains channel in a few weeks.
Thanks glad it was helpful, and yes it was a bit scary filming with the loco going over the bridge of doom! 😀
Off topic, but fascinated to see Kernigan & Ritchie acting acting as a bridge pillar. That's on my bookshelf too!
Track setter for TT120 is available from West Hill Wagon Works.
They do other track laying accessories too which really help with getting everything laid correctly.
Hope that helps
Very enjoyable Simon….we can now make a definitive choice between the two…
Bless you. Thanks for honest review.
Interesting video. The Peco point blades look to have a smaller 'flange gap' at the toe end than the Hornby - the Peco looks even nicer in this respect than the current N-gauge points.
Fantastic! Made my mind up to go Peco all the way. 👍
Love 'The C Programming Language' book for the bridge!
Might skim through my copy now for a few more pointers... 😉🤭
Ooh pointers...
To be fair the Hornby track is aimed at the starter toy market. The Peco track is aimed at the Railway Modeller. Good review.
Thanks for that video Simon been waiting for Hornby straight track for months but now know that peco fits ok will be ordering peco straight track so I can get on with my layout again thanks
Good one . Did wonder about compatibility of track , so you’ve settled that .
Great review and informative comparison
Nick Australia
In OO I only ever use Peco points despite the price difference. I just bought a bunch of Peco flex track and points to supplement my TT120 digital Easterner when it arrives. My decision was based on your review. Thanks
Hi in Australia we use this Peco track for our Queensland Railways narrow gauge 3 feet 6 and a half inches in HOn3-6.
Good review Simon, for me Peco every day, Hornby cheated with using two sections to make a longer length of setrack (the sane as they do with OO gauge) the point blades (Swing area) looks far better on the Peco over the Hornby. On another note taking apart your track will make the fish-plates loose & add to more track curcuit failures!
If you're ballasting, the height of the sleepers is not going to be an issue. If you're not, then you are unlikely to care.
Glad to hear the two can interoperate!
When I built my first 00 layout 5 years ago I used Hornby set-track all barring one short piece of straight and two Peco points. I wish now I had used all Peco track as the uni frog and greater selection of complex track pieces would have been better all around. Not so, however as I was given a couple of Hornby train sets (Xmas & birthday), so I had started with quite a bit of Hornby set-track, also not withstanding, my grand children gave me some Hornby expansion track sets as well.
Nice comparison, loved the bridge of doom. Peco - Tillig comparison next? :)
When I built mine, many years ago, I used PECO flexi. It had realistic radius curves, never a derail. A nice gentle S curve through the station. A few compound curves, points & sidings .I made some compasses out of strips of thin ply with an axis hole one end & various holes for circumferences. This made making curved tracks a snap' As in easy, not braking things. I don't see the need for all these plastic templates. Just my 2 cents worth.
When comparing track, you were comparing a set track with flexi track. Peco's straight set track also have the "strange sleeper" as well.
Peco don’t do TT settrack currently
Dear Simon, love the comparison, humbly think the Peco track looks much, much better than the Hornby version. Especially those awkward sleepers they’ve put in the middle of the set track pieces look horrendous. Further, they should have learned by now, that the rail chairs can indeed be as small as their competitor’s.
Would be interesting if you would also compare Trix or Arnold track in TT.
What truly sets me off from the entire Hornby TT initiative, is that they only sell this scale through their designated TT web portal. Excluding hobby shops to sell their TT products isn’t the way to go. Rather is it a kind of odd way of thinking. Especially for a company which is so brazen on its efforts for innovation in model railroading. Still am of the opinion it’s a kind of ‘Lionel’ step to secure this market niche as an old school monopolist.
Companies like Hornby should support hobby shops, rather than attempt to phase ‘m out.
So, overall love your vid, but most definitely have my own thoughts on H’s TT re-introduction.
Cheerio
A some points about Hornby's decision to make it online only:
1) Hornby have said they discussed it with some of the model shops who were happy for Hornby to take the initial risk. Buying in a load of Hornby TT stock which may or may not sell is a big risk for the model shops until it gets established. It sounds like the model shops are okay with this for the moment.
2) Hornby have made a huge investment and taken all the risk so it seems fair they get the reward.
3) Cutting out the middleman means Hornby can price TT competitively which will boost initial sales and help the gauge get established. It also allows Hornby to do discounts and offers without upsetting the model shops, something they can't do with OO.
4) TT is already popular in the US, Europe and Japan, so unlike OO is a world market. In this age of internet shopping it makes sense to have it online.
5) Hornby have said they may well bring the model shops in at a later date. In Australia it's actually being sold to via a retailer that Hornby have a long relationship with, which shows they are open to the idea.
Currently Hornby have a monopoly of TT, but in order to make a success of it will need to make it affordable compared to other gauges. Keeping it all in house will help them do this. Remember Hornby have been posting losses each financial year for some time so they need to make TT a success, plus make it attractive to newbies.
TT has a lot of advantages over OO for Hornby:
- It takes up less room making it more attractive for people new to the hobby.
- The small size also means transport costs are reduced, baring in mind these have gone up 500%+ since Covid.
- It's a world market as opposed to a mainly UK one.
- They're not missing out on sales to the secondhand market or rivals and whilst this will change over time it will take a while.
- The age profile for OO customers is quite elderly and they're not being replaced by younger modellers. What happens when they pass on? Hornby need a new customer base and are hoping TT will encourage more people into the hobby. Surely a good thing.
I hope it's a success, though how successful it will be in getting new people into the hobby remains to be seen.
Hi Simon enjoyed that very much. Would have been interesting to see the result in the opposite direction to see the loco going over the Lego point from the trailing end (I think I’ve got that right ) But probably wouldn’t have made a difference. Thanks for a useful video
Good useful information, thanks 👍
Glad it was helpful 👍
Thank you. Very helpful for a novice.
Thanks for the review, it's always been Peco track for me. The reason you had trouble pushing the track ontot the point at 14.06 is the inner side of the upper fishplate is not engaged on the base of the rail. Only the outer edge engaged. Again at 16.13 the fishplate is under the rail.
Thanks for this video buddy. I was toying with getting into railway modelling with TT-120. I don't have a great deal of space to play with. I would have to organise a board and somewhere to put it. Anyway, I have put the idea on hold for now. Can't afford it lol. Maybe in the future. Love your pile of books solution lol. You have my sub, and I will check out your other videos.
No problem thanks for subscribing 👍
It seems Hornby have decided to model the look of their TT track based on their OO track which looks like toy train track. As this is a brand new design and new tooling required, it seems ashame not to at least tried to make it look like real track. I suppose they made this decision to make it look like toy train track rather than having to choose British outline, Continental or American, in the belief that they would not be restricted to one geographic market? The Hornby stuff looks like overpriced 1970's rubbish. Love the use of the "C" programing book! Nice video, thanks for uploading.
Thanks for watching 👍
A good and very useful video.
I understood that Peco was code 55 and Hornby code 80, but you're saying that's wrong. I also asked Simon Kholer at Warley if the two were compatable and was told not at present as they were slightly different heights. However clearly that's not correct either.
I do like Peco's unifrog points. Twice the price but I guess you get what you pay for. I understand both manufacturers have more track in the pipeline. Hornby have double straights, flexit track and different radius curves and I think both intend to bring out additional point sizes.
Overall I agree Peco track looks the way to go.
Would be interesting how a short wheelbase loco is like going over the Hornby plastic frog vs Peco unifrog
The Peco track has been around for decades. I have some Peco TT track & points that I bought back in the late 1990's. It's used for HOm, OOy, TT 3mm. & now TT 120.
I also use Tillig points.
looks a good build thanks lee
Thanks for watching 🚂
Thank You
A very useful review - thank you.
While I have an established liking for Peco track, in all gauges and a powerful dislike of monstrous dead frogs, at the SHOCKING price of these Peco points I would expect the guard rails to be metal rail and not plastic. That price is beyond ridiculous, even moreso than Hornby's rip-offs for short straights. It is anough to turn thoughts of vhanging to TT Gauge completely OFF.
Where can I buy the Peco metal frog point switches ? I asked about the Hornby in one of your videos
but the all metal Peco looks a lot better.
I got mine from Hatton's.
Excellent piece Simon, thank you. It confirms what in my gut I thought might be true and I feel vindicated in my decision back in December to choose to only by the locos & stock from Hornby. Not just because buying like that means I actually get sound & DCC fitted & lights in the carriages but also I get the actual loco I always wanted back in 1978 (when I was 10) namely the “Flying Scotsman”
NB I “built” my dream layout on AnyRail both in Hornby & Peco 1:120 and the savings on the straights more than made up for the expense of the better turn outs in Peco.
Ps I’m now running through your back catalog, all very good and I’m hoping for more TT from you. Perhaps buildings etc? (Might just wake Metcalfe up) 😂
Thanks and yes, there will be more TT 120 videos coming soon, it seems to be proving popular! Don't tell anyone but I may have started planning a little TT layout 😀🚂
@@SimonsShed 🤫🤣
When I worked on the big weekend possessions, dropping the new concrete sleepers on the mainline, depending on the traffic levels, we would have a spacing of either 300mm or 450mm.
Good to get some info from someone who knows, thanks! Thanks for watching !
The Hornby Sleeper plastic is a Half Standard Lenght...2 sleeper mouldings make one Standard length set track...economy of injection mould units.
Peco have a long history of correct track making, Hornby consortium gets everything made in China now...
Enuff said...
DocAV from Down under...0n42" 1:48 scratch builder. Past experience in HO, Sn42, HOe...and Hornby Tinplate 0 gauge ( 1950s)
Yes makes sense that it would be a cost saving measure. Thanks for watching 👍
I have used Tillig bedding track which is similar to Kato unitrack.
Peco makes a great product, for all scales Best Regards Andrew
Would the sleeper spacing not depend on the ground conditions and the weight of the trains?
..and the curve of the track and intended speed of the trains too I guess. Now that would be a challenge to model accurately 😅
12mm track produced by Peco was actually for HOm gauge. They have relabelled it to fit in with the new development of TT. The same track is used for meter gauge railways such as the Rhaetian Railway in Switzerland.
I use this on my HOm layout and there are pin holes. Peco also produce 'Electrofrog' turnouts which of course requires different circuit wiring. It seems that Peco have increased their prices. I never have paid £18 for a turnout.
No. It's completely new track. The rail is different: it has the double web of the N-gauge streamline. The sleeper spacing is correct for 1:120 not 1:87.
Interesting to see the differance!!! 🤔🚂🚂🚂
Is it the Peco SL-310 Rail Joiners you need for joining them together?
Yes that’s the one, they work for n gauge and TT track 👍🏼
What is the track planning software you are using Simon? It looks a lot more intuitive than Railmodeller Express that I am trying to get my head round!
Railmodeller Pro 👍
I don’t understand. I tried and peco and hornby wouldn’t go together . But i was trying tt120 scale. Got told they’re not compatible.
Interesting. However, I have a pack of Peco SL-310 N/009/TT fishplates (bought ages ago for a 009 layout, that can be used here), and none of the fishplates are fitting onto the Hornby track. I don't have any Peco track yet, but I may need to use Hornby fishplates to go between the two types.
14:53 Is that a first edition K&R?
still the case of if you want a good basic trackwork on a layout , bin the hornby and lay peco ,, hornby is ok for kids on the floor till they progress to a layout
Yep, good for a temporary layout but I'll be using Peco if (when) I build a layout 👍
An interesting comparison though I suppose for a fairer like for like comparison you'd have to wait for Hornby to release their flexible TT track. I'm surprised the two systems are compatible as I was lead to believe the Peco system is of a finer scale but now it's clear they are both Code 55.
It would be good if Hornby could make an agreement with Peco and get them to make track for them as in the case of OO setrack the two systems are almost identical. The good thing with the Peco system is that it's manufactured in the UK. One distadvantage of setrack in most gauges is that funny unrealistic joined sleeper. I'm not sure what the reasoning behind that is. I can remember when Hornby first introduced Code 100 setrack (what they then called System 6 Track) back in the early 70s they didn't have those strange sleepers.
Hornby is code 80. I noticed in the video at the 14:19 point, it looks like the Peco rails are sitting on top of the fish plates.
True, will be interesting to see what the Hornby flexi track is like and how it compares to Peco's. I'll have to do an update video when that arrives. Thanks for watching 👍
Excellent clip
I noticed that the Peco point does NOT have the fish plates already fitted. And the Hornby points have the fish plates already fitted.
Huh? Am I being daft or at 14.00 the fishplate on one side is not actually engaged on the track, or is it an optical illusion?
Just the video I wanted to see as I thought they were incompatible
Yep they definitely work together...the Peco fishplates are quite a tight fit but it works well once its pushed together.
Do you need a second shed for the TT layout?
How good would it be to have a shed for every scale 🤔😀
Did you realise that you can use the outside measuring points on the new micrometer gauge to measure the sleeper spacing without having to do any complex subtracting!?! Bob M.
Question: do those different tracks fit into each other?
yes they do 👍
I have the K-R Book (2nd Ed.) myself. :D
It’s a classic 😀
Tillig has the best tt track system(from experience)
hmm maybe I need to do another video 🤦♂️ Thanks for watching 🚂
@@SimonsShed I started with a Tillig starter set around 3 years ago. I bought it in Budapest and my retailer said that when amazon finally comes to hungary too prices will possibly go down and not waiting weeks for something to arrive from germany. The problem here is that the population is not that wealthy as a british or a french.
The Hornby track has the same geometry as the Tillig track.
But what about Tillig?
Hi i think the Hornby track is code 80.
K&R for the win!
I C what you did there.
I would use any points EXCEPT Peco. The blades of Peco points work harden at the toe over time and you end up with useless flapping point ends. They are not pivoted, they are moulded into the tie bar. The number of Peco points I've had to replace on friends layouts over the years is in the hundreds.
The Hornby curved track is not made properly and when you put it together, to get a full circle the ends overlap by a considerable amount.
Interesting Simon, although I’ve always viewed Hornby track as train set track and Peco track as model railway track. Good comparisons though and interesting video as usual especially as the Flying Scotsman took the bend over the chairs😬🤦🏻♂. Cheers Simon, John
Cheers John, yes totally agree, the Hornby track is great for beginners but as soon as you want to pin/glue some track down on a layout its Peco all the way. Glad you liked the 'bridge of doom', I thought it would add a bit of excitement to the video 😅
It seems risky launching a new gauge. Wouldn't it have been easier to go back into n? I guess they are thinking they would have no competition to start with but it could flop massively.
Why do you Brit’s say “radius 1” etc rather than x inches/cm radius
Lol not sure really, I guess because I'm talking about set-track radius, if I was talking about flexi track curves I think I'd say 12inch radius etc.
From OO experience Peco points throw better and run smoother. Hornby is trainset material, Peco is Model railway material. Peco all the way, and they are based in Beer!
I bet went they had steam engines they didn't measure in metric. The sleepers were probably in yards.
Great review - thanks✌️👍😊
It all runs nice and smoothly 👍✌️😊 But......
Both track systems still seem to appear crude and the sleepers don't look long enough, they look more "continental" akin to the perennial and thus inaccurate HO/OO RTL track system from Peco et al. Which I find disappointing (if my perceptions are correct)🤔🤔 How many years has it taken for Peco to produce a decent OO bullhead? And only then when nudged by the EM Society commission work?🤔🤔🙄💔
I'll reserve full judgement until I see it ballasted somewhere ✌️✌️
Hi Simon. Thanks for the video comparison which was good, but unfortunately you didn't show the UNDERSIDE of the Hornby Point which I wanted to see to compare the current transfer connections between the fixed and moving rails. I COULD see the Unifrog point underside, but not the Hornby one. Shame.
Tillig Elite Flex.
I would have had the top point facing the other way just in case it was set wrong resulting in the whole train nosedived onto the floor. 😲
The odd sleepers in the middle of the Hornby track are because they're for two half straights. They just use the same webbing to save money.
I note that neither Hornby or Peco have taken the opportunity to improve their track systems. It looks like they've just scaled down the 00 track.
They could have got rid of those ugly elbows in the movable parts of the points for instance.
Yes, I think you're right. You'd think Hornby, in particular, would've put the effort in to make sure this track was just right since they've gone to such expense already by investing in a new market which they don't even know yet will pay off for them.
Yes I think there is a bit of cost-saving going on there. Managed to film the video without any trains ending up on the floor so a good result I think. Thanks for watching 😀
William
The winner is clearly Tillig
The worst thing with the Hornby track is those horrible lumpy bits of sleeper each end, and the middle - looks horrible.
couldn't lay it out on the floor ? 🤨
Williamweller
I wouldn’t worry too much. It’ll all be going on EBay when Hornby stop supporting it due to lack of sales anyway…..
I still think the track looks wrong even though the scale is right compared to 00......even 00 finescale looks better so i think they should have used a lower code rail. Looks way too chunky.......
prefer the horby track as peco is hard to cut sleepers without cutting the rail too. The points arrived this morning and have built junction at acton wells today with 3 more points and diamonds to complete. using the sheffield track sector system for curves.
You can use a Stanley knife; it cuts the webbing but not the track.
@@cellarton thanks matthew
No need for the maths measuring the distance between the sleepers. The gauge you are using has internal and external jaws. Just turn it over.....
Peco HOm track is much better, it even has chairs and is the same gauge - 12mm
Peco is the superior track. If I were to start doing model railways again, I wouldn't allow Hornby crap anywhere near a layout.
Peco track is better and cheaper. Especially their points, much better than hornby
It’s everyone’s choice, made in uk or made in China! Of cause it’s rather ironic that an ENGLISH COMPANY chooses to use a Chinese manufacturer for their products!