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Thoughts on Developing BELT and MIX with Gregory West and Philippe Hall
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- Опубліковано 15 сер 2024
- 0:00 Greg’s vocal development in the last couple years
6:43 How controlling the “Aperture” better has helped Gregory teach others
7:50 What Gregory wants to improve at
8:56 Thinning out versus staying full
12:17 Registers are a sliding scale
13:16 Why it’s hard to name registers sometimes
17:48 Why some singers don’t understand registers like “mix voice”
19:36 Why guidance is important
20:15 Learning to sing is about emulating
22:00 Belting and Mixing requires getting control over your “dials”
25:25 Choosing the right teacher
27:34 Sometimes your voice problems need to be peripherally solved
28:34 The trouble with trusting a vocal coach
29:50 How to not get stuck as a singer and continue progressing
36:27 Your vocal coach needs to admit their weaknesses
38:23 Why you need multiple teachers
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Wow long time since we seen this fella Mr West
You can really talk Gregory. You spoke for over 6 minutes before Phillipe Hall said a word 😱. I too have been working on speaking more concisely ☺️. I know how hard it is. Watching this helped me cement the point that good conversations are shared by all “involved”. I admire your positive energy and your quest for mastery over the voice. Your videos have helped me finally find my mixed voice. Lots more to learn but your info has me on the right path. Thank you.
I'm really happy to see you back!
Every voice is different. I'm a choirs conductor, and I've been a vocal coach for 10 years, helping people develop their voices, and I've never seen a case as tough as my own! I've came up with methods to develop mix voice and belting that has worked on pretty much all my trainees (often from the 1st lesson), but my own voice still cracks too easily when I try to do a soft breathy mix... I know there's a lot to learn but I think I know enough to be able to sing, and despite all my efforts and years of experience helping others do it, I myself can either do m1 below passaggio, or m2, but mix voice is still something I can't physically do. It's frustrating and depressing.
I'm open to suggestions.
Love your videos, BTW.
I admire how invested you are to still learn more and also to share it.
Thank you.
Thanks! I would need to hear you to have any idea of what's going on. But from what you're saying it sounds like you can't do mix unless you go into the tight mode? Definitely developing the smooth transition from modal to falsetto is KEY. And doing that with a variable aperture is also key. What I mean by that is being able to adjust the quantity of airflow you use while performing the transition. So a loose transition, a tight one, and the inbetweens. This is important to do across pitches on slides but also on the same note all over your range where you can do modal, even in the low notes down to at least F3 for men. Developing the falsetto is also key. Making it extremely loud, louder than your loudest yell/belt. Not the easiest thing to find but it's how the big soprano voices do it- and men can do it too. I was stuck in the tight mode for like 7 years and it took a couple years to start training myself to be able to actually sing songs with a looser vocal fold closure. Hope it helps :)
-Gregory West
@@StudioWestLessons
Falsetto is kinda easier for me (in comparison to belting).
Adding a LOT of subglottal pressure, or in other words, through vocal fry + bel canto technique I have been able to gain some strength on my voice and kinda yell from E4 to B4. It started very glitchy/choppy (more voice cracks than actual voice) and after 2 year of this tiring vocal workout I'm able to sustain it for a little longer and also reduce a little that air pressure until my voice eventually rips. Doing it with closed vowels (i, u) is harder than the open ones (a, e, o), it leads to more and worse voice cracks, so that's the route I'm taking.
But transitioning from chest voice or even from falsetto to a mix is still impossible.
Singing breathy across passaggio still doesn't work for my weird case of weak vocal muscles.
Are you receiving students? I'd love to have at least one session so you can do some trials on my voice and maybe give me some feedback based on what you find.
Thanks a lot for your reply! It means a lot!
@@NandoMusi so do you think the sound you're doing via the fry technique is essentially a pulled up chest voice then? If the transition across pitch doesn't work well, you should also work on it below the passagio on same pitch transitions. Unfortunately, right now I am fully booked though I would love to try and help you sort it out. I do have a waiting list you could join and maybe soon we could work together if you're still interested later on. Or I could maybe refer you to some colleagues that I trust, or one of my teachers-in-training that are learning my coaching method currently.
-Gregory West
@@StudioWestLessons
It's hard to describe. It's not chest voice already, it sounds thin, yet it sounds more like full voice instead of falsetto or flageolet. It also gets me vocally tired but it feels like muscular soreness, not irritation. And it's the only thing that has given me some results.
I haven't been able to pull up chest voice or belt over E4, unless I do that tight kinda strained voice. If I try to yell it the regular way or try to belt my voice cracks or it burns my throat in a way that feels wrong, and I avoid that at all costs. Better 10 voice cracks than that!
Thanks to this issue I've searched for more modern and science based takes on this than what we learn at a conservatory, like your videos!
Thank you very much for your advices and for following up!
I'd like to wait until your schedule clears a little, maybe we could even make it live so it helps someone out there dealing with this like me, and to learn how to strengthen the voice in an effective and healthy way.
Thanks again for everything, Gregory!
Have a good one!
Ah, it sounds like a tight mode mix then. Have you seen my video of "flageolet tension"? @@NandoMusi
So happy to see a new video of you x
He’s back 🔥
Glad you came back!
So stoked to see a new video! Let’s go!!!
These are really great observations! Tight mode worked for me, until it didn't. Like you said, it wasn't airy, and I couldn't get air into it, so I was effectively just winching my voice tighter and tighter until I basically had no range. Unsurprisingly, falsetto is bringing it back to a looser place without losing compression entirely.
At one point, I didn't believe that it was possible to sing in a modal airy neutral...until I could do it. There are a lot more possibilities in between chest voice and falsetto qualities than it seemed.
Yup! Usually people have a hard time believing things are possible when they pigeon hole their techniques like that. I thought it wasn't possible in the high range for me for years. A non-tight mode falsetto is important but so is working on modal lower as well and just getting more air in it.
Hello Greg, just wanna drop one question: as you said, creak always adds restrain, however you seem to be able to thin out the voice without restraining it. Is that really so, or the creak tension is so slight that I couldn't hear it? Thanks.
Been wondering where you were for a long time. Thought you were gonna show up with an album or something 😂
Great insights in this video! What helped you to maintain or let's say increase the density in the higher range while keeping the breathy/neutral quality? Is it a matter of letting the twang increase the density? Is the hold still something you feel/use during this coordination?
Hi! I wouldn't think of it as density. If you're thinking of it in terms of the CVT model- there's not a good way to explain the difference. I would have to articulate it like this: Make your neutral closer to your metallic singing and further away from falsetto neutral. Terminology aside, more twang in the sound can help but it's mostly about maintaining the muscular effort in the larynx to not "let go" towards falsetto. You could do this with a hold in RD or in FD. both need this feeling of "hanging on" to something distinctly modal in sensation, all while keeping the higher airflow. Hope it helps, I have a video in the works about it :)
Thanks alot for the response :)@@StudioWestLessons
can u make a vedio to talk about hidden incorrect support😢
Hello Greg I have a technical question and I hope you can help me because it's driving me crazy:
I've heard vocal coaches say that a low larynx (associated with a rounder space etc..) stretches the vocal folds, making them thinner and making the sound lighter, while a high larynx makes the vocal folds shorter, thicker and the sound heavier/chestier. But in my experience I don't find that to be true: starting from a "neutral" shape (so the space is not on the "rounder, taller" side of the spectrum nor "wider, more horizontal") I feel that if I round the space or if I make it more horizontal, in both cases the vocal folds seem to vibrate with less mass, the sound is lighter and the resonace feels higher and more forward. The only difference is the timbre and the fact that the vocal folds adduct more easily with a higher larynx position, but it seems to me that both lowering and raising the larynx produces a decrease in vocal folds mass. Does that make any kind of sense at all physiologically?
Hm. What is true is that the effects of the resonances on the vocal folds will change with those different vocal tract shapes. Usually when people say "raise the larynx" theyre also actually narrowing the oropharynx, which makes a huge impact on the vocal folds closure via an acoustic effect. When lowering the larynx, the space within the larynx is usually very wide and open, which makes one naturally gravitate to have more abducted vocal folds.
I cant say i have noticed that raising the larynx causes any vocal fold thinning, no, nor an abduction of the folds. That may be a particular attractor state (habit zone) for you, that most people don't seem to share.
The general rule of thumb with the larynx and vocal fold closure is high and tight/low and loose.
@StudioWestLessons First of all thanks for answering! So you are saying basically that a low larynx makes the vocal folds stretch and thin but they have a harder time coming together, while a high larynx makes the vocal folds shorter and tighter (more chesty) and they have an easier time coming together?
I think i've been struggling to get that exact same breathy high full voice config as you were talking about, and would really like to hear about the process towards finding it
Hi,
Check out the video "falsetto mix" on the channel. That was an important first step for me personally, tho not everyone needs to go that route to develop it.
-Gregory
Thanks for the reply! Assuming I have already developed that config, how did you take that towards the thin m1 thing? I have a bunch of notes in that e4 range where my current options are falsetto mix or belting basically, and I want that thin talking m1y sound, and i feel like ive been banging my head against a wall with it for 2 years. Any insight would be really appreciated!@@StudioWestLessons
@@yaeba8824 Check out this video. You need to practice same pitch transitions from that sound into modal. ua-cam.com/video/K-bxG9UrXI8/v-deo.html
Never thought I would say this, but, the redpill grindset kind of works for singing XD
Exercise. Persevere. Don't let people tell you what your voice type is, b!tch I am all of them.