BIG BANG B16A-HOW MUCH BOOST?
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- Опубліковано 24 кві 2020
- FULL RESULTS. WHO WINS? STOCK B16A v 57MM TURBO. How much boost can you run a stock, untouched B16A? How much power does it make? Why didn't we add ring gap? You will find all these answers and more when we run a 57-mm turbo on this stock B16A. Did I mention we also ran it with a small Turbonetics Turbo system, or that we ran the 57-mm turbo with a long-tube header? It's all here!
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I’d love to see you do this test again with some ring gap. Keep on putting out awesome content
^This!
I have a forged internal B16A with Wiseco pistons and Eagle rods and Cylinder Support Systems installed to close the deck, but I haven't run it yet. I did this same thing on a bone stock non-VTEC B18B1 that I tore down and rebuilt with ACL bearings and NPR rings and it made 408 whp reliably for years and was really fast.
Big Turbo EJ8 what all made it make 400?
Those internals and a turbo?
Seems real common, close to stock and a big turbo. Then you start swapping cranks and shit... Honda’s seem like too much fun
Look up Gene Kim, Robert breaker on UA-cam
Look up Gene Kim, Robert breaker on UA-cam
I remember reading about this a LONG time ago in one of the tuning magazines. I'm pretty sure I still have it. Awesome to know you were the one behind that write up. Was way cool to read about back then. So many myths flying around back then.
It was in Honda tuning I still have that issue as well. Was definitely early 2000s
I remember this too! I remember my dad being a Chevy guy said "son. You need one of these honda Bees. Look at this stock bottom end power" lol 👍 good shit
@@nickangelo2119 yeah, but that one made around 500 didn't it? I think they added just pistons?
Myths still flying now!! I have that issue in my "reference books" collection.
Videos like this over years have given me not only the confidence, but the crystal clear understanding of how things work in the engine bay ... dont have any family or friends with a background of mechanic work AT ALL!!! Strictly self and internet taught, ive had many project cars and bikes up to know that I learned how to work on thanks to videos JUST LIKE THIS .. thank you for Amazing content truly informative and appreciative and im sure many others like me are !
happy to help
Keep them coming! Really loving the vast variety of different engines/tests and all the knowledge and data to help us all out! Thanks Richard!
When your watching “fastest car” on Netflix and get bored, so you switch to UA-cam to Richards newest video and then Richard pops up on Netflix with Chad lol.
the Chad is rad
Yep I saw that !
@@richardholdener1727 netflix? where?
Funny. About an hour ago I told my car to hit play, she said na its boring u wont like it, and this video was definitely a good one.
Love all the content but especially the Honda stuff. I've made 612 on a stock b18b sleeve with CP 9-1 Pistons and scat h-beam rods with a VTEC head. I have a 84 1/2 mm la sleeved GSR which has no cylinder reenforcement. That motor has 10 to 1 wiseco pistons, Manley turbo tuff rods. It made 847 to the wheels. It was dynoed on a mustang Dyno. Both of the engines were extremely reliable and the GSR is still in my race car.
How much boost
Jason America 847FWHP?
probably like 25lbs+ of boost
34 lb of boost
What type of gas
I like Hondas but which part of that was stock?
This is just interesting as a car fan. I love seeing the variety of builds on this channel
Great test, I was vary surprised when you posted something about Honda’s a couple weeks ago. I’ve ran a stock bottom end b16a with 10psi about 50000 miles 260hp and the thing just wants more, after watching this I’d be happy gapping rings and shooting for 350. Any more Honda stuff you have I’ll watch 👍
I have lots
300+hp Honda is an insane feeing.
@@fastinradfordable phhhh wjy? My car came with 300 hp stock lol!
@@ikaros21 What car?
@@ikaros21 if you're referring to the car on your profile an old school Honda weighs around 1200lbs less than that. Power to weight ratio would be 11.6lbs per hp and Civic hatch around 6.5lbs per hp... That 300whp Civic will leave your car in the dust... That's why... 300whp Civic hatchback's or even coupe's will run into the 11's with a good driver and slicks.. and fwd need slicks for the quarter mile because their 60' is so shitty without them. Rwd doesn't have that handicap. Take both cars for a roll race and regular street tires work fine for the HP fwd setups.
Thanks for all the different varieties of platforms you are putting up lately. I subbed when you had around a thousand subscribers and it has gone nuts over the last few months. Almost at 50 thousand subscribers. You put in all the hard work, and we appreciate it. Can't wait for more videos to come.
Thanks again Richard. Cheers.
Thanks for the sub!
Just got my hands on a stock B16A, this makes for perfect timing. Awesome video 👍
Thanks for doing all these vids. It takes tons of time so thanks!
Keep the honda/acura goodness coming buddy! I enjoy your videos and love hearing the conclusion. Thanks for the time you put in for videos for us to watch.
When I was starting out years ago with a local tuning company in Washington state your Honda books got my threw it.
👍
I'll take a brake from tuning my gto with Hp tuners, to watch Richard's greatness.
GTO Kid could you recommend a good video for getting started with hp tuners
MBM460 Ns “how you use hpt 101” by sloppy mechanics. His website a ton of base tunes
Malone Harrison thanks so much i’m a carb guy making the switch
MBM460 Ns welcome 🙏, big power gains in efi
@@mbm460ns9 CSSOB on UA-cam has some really good step by step videos.
Wow. Some great information from 15 years ago thats still relevant in today's world. Would love to see you redo this test!
I look forward to these videos in the morning!!!!
There isn't much I wouldn't give up to be apart of all this dyno testing!
Love the content keep it coming!
Love all the big bang stuff . Big bang every motor I'll keep watching them
Yup. Seeing the limits of an engine, and knowing what caused it is invaluable !!!
This is cool. love the variety!
Id love to see an early Miata 1.6 big bang. Love your videos. Thanks for all your hard work
First time watching your video, i found it very knowledgeable! Thanks!..
You guys are awesome and have a lot of really really good info others don’t share in this video👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻 I would like to see the actual pulls with split screen of the info so we can see the blow by at higher rpm ect ect. But I love the video
I got one for you, a junkyard b20 big bang, since b20's are known for having weaker cylinders than the b16,b18 blocks
that's due to the thinner cylinder walls from b20 having larger bore same issues with LS engines why boosted applications run the small displacement 4.8L
Get me more BOOST this same man has videos where 5.3 and 6.0 make well over 1000 horsepower , cylinder walls are never a failing component
@@JMMSBoyz lol what? He literally couldn't kill a stock bottom end 6.0 gen 4 LS engine.
Would love to see this too
@@coltonbeute5889 I can't say I have seen any of the LS motors fail due to a test that exceeded the strength of a stock part.
You the best man... great advice and testing
Even though I don't do Hondas it's interesting to erase the myths surrounding the stock engine. Thanks for a great dyno session.
I love the video the way to explain everything.... my b16 is pushing about 300 on everything stock only 13 psi ... hopefully to push more soon
Great job and your doing great detail with all your videos.. Love it.. Keep up the great work.. Would to see 2zzge dyno upgrades...
Awesome test! I had no idea those Little buggers could produce that much power at roughly 15 psi.
Thanks for posting it 😁
Keep in mind that with race fuel they can run much more aggressive timing, than can be done with typical premium pump fuel. Also the lack of any accessories and drive components makes a massive difference.
Man I love this guys attitude
Superstreet did a b16a with arias pistons stock rods 24psi 507whp. I had a b16a2 12psi beat it up for about a year daily driving till 2 pistons cracked just like you explained. I learned something from your video bigger ring gaps, thanks
Love this video thank you!!
Pretty cool, it's amazing how much power these stock engines can actually make. Honestly I think I would have taken that original small turbo setup you got going. The power and torque curve was much nicer and smoother. And for street use I suspect the car might even be faster, because you'll be pulling longer and sooner rather than it all rushing up at the tail end. At a drag strip where you can stay in the high RPM ranges you probably get a different result.
Great video keep up the great work
You’re what the world needs right now!
Good stuff Richard. Can you please post a video on any K24 stuff you may have?
Very informative!! just what I need to know , thanks.
I wonder what a stock b16 with more ring gap would do in a big bang situation?
GREAT VIDEO. Please make more Honda videos. K Series will be great. I’ll make sure to share all of them!
Love all your content especially the Import stuff wish you could do some more modern series stuff!
the modern stuff is hard to find in junkyards-and expensive
soooo...I NEVER subscribe to a channel....but Mr. Richard, you've earned it. SUBBED
Awesome tests by the way,
very cool Richard, would be cool to see this revisited with more gap.
I had a 1989 clean ford probe gt with the old f2t when I was young. Did head stead, ring gap, water meth, 2000cc injectors, I think it was a master power gt45, on Megas squirt. Ran 28 psi forever, all my friends said it would never last and I ran that setup for 5 years with absolutely no issues. It's all about the tune people.
How much power did it make just curious?
@@PeterFeltersnatch852 I never had it on a dyno. I did a base tune from one of my friends that had close to the same setup. Then I just street tuned it with a wideband.
Great Videos keep it going
Thanks rich. This is exactly what I wanted to see. I love chevy but as a kid I played with Hondas.
Wow!!...............
ua-cam.com/video/sluNuVp2_TE/v-deo.html
This was awesome to see. Ide like see gap the rings and redo next??
Hey Rich! Been here since you had 1200 subs. You are almost at 50k. But you deserve 2 million plus. If you are ever in Nc, your welcome to come by and have a beer.
thnx for the OG support
@@richardholdener1727 you're very welcome,brother. Keep up the good work.
Awesome video! And as far as i know to really break passed 500hp safety is to css your block and beef up the rods.. but really thats it. Also springs and retainers if you wanna rev to the moon, but definitely not needed for 7k rpm
Broke 50k subs! Keep on killing it!!
Thnx-its time for a giveaway
I love the B series Honda stuff. Keep it up. Also, the chevy stuff is great, but I'd like to see some more HEMI and Honda videos.
More to come!
I'd be curious to see a Big bang subaru! They're famously blowy-uppy, how much cold Richard Holdener make? I suspect they don't have quite enough ring gap stock, and often times people are trying to shove way too much boost in at low speeds.
that's exactly what i was thinking, hopefully we get to see him run an sti engine to its limits and maybe elaborate more on the famous ring land failure
@@AlexP-yb7gh I've seen the theory that ring gap is just too tight stock and sits there and weakens that area with lots of slight ring butting.
In my Christoper Walken voice: I got a fever, and the only prescription is more ring gap!
ping pong!
That stg 3 wheel is never really street friendly, but that's what you had around. Great content as always
agreed-that turbo was not the best choice-just what I had laying around back in the day
All great!! thanks again!!
Running a Honda MPFI converted SOHC no-vtec D15B2 block, JE 9.4-1 forged pistons, eagle rods, full Manley and Isky racing valve train. Factory crank, cam, and ECU with a manifold pressure bypass set up on 8psi 6850rpm limiter. No smoke, no issues, 27-32 MPG 24000 miles so far. Would love to see what an 89-91 D15 motor is capable of on your big bang program!
Not into 4 or 6 bangers but since you're doing it I watch
thnx-every motor need more power
Love the Honda stuff! Put these myths to bed! I remember you talking about your MPG oriented civic hatch. Maybe any videos or even a verbal overview talking about the set up?
Love this stuff
Holy 2002 setup, Batman! This test would be much more interesting if it was redone with modern turbo tech.
Chris M ikr... this guys a hack.
@@mareksumguy1887 let's see you do better. Where are your videos?
@@mareksumguy1887 I disagree. Richard is a trailblazer and has extremely deep knowledge on engine dynamics, this is just a really old test that he's revisiting, likely to cater to a wider range of viewers. Most of his clients these days are V8 owners, so he doesn't visit 4 cylinder stuff much anymore. You can't fault him for that.
Chris M what kind of a moron would use old garbage turbos??
@@mareksumguy1887 This test appears in a book he published in 2003, it wasn't done last week. This stuff was the best available at the time. I'd love to see him re-do it with a modern turbo, but as I said, he's got his hands full with V8 stuff. That's where the money is.
I’m always shocked by how small of a ring gap the piston manufacturer’s suggests. Now if building for myself I run the largest feeler. .028 instead of .018? Haven’t broken a piston since. I don’t have any empirical data to back this up. Just anecdotal experience. Thank you for the great content. You’re great at explaining complex topics.
I too pretty much run .028 on everything and it keeps the ring land together. Ive seen unhealthy small ring gaps on newer stock engines where the wristpins are already very slightly bent. I didn't want to believe it but got the wristpin on a lathe and lo and behold its out a thou or s0.
Got me wanting to boost a 3800 series 1. Loved the old 11th gen 98 regency. Would be a pure sleeper
Need to get a early non VVTI 2JZGE from a lexus and do a big bang test on it . You can pick them up cheap $400-$1000
Yes please
Ive been giving new life to old stuff most my life. I reuse almost everything if i can an its like anything or even us,well blow up or go crazy if pushed to much.
Look up Gene Kim
The bone-stock B16A record, last time I saw, was 560whp. Made it 2-3 runs, then cracked the ringlands (no gap). That's stock from the throttle body to the exhaust gasket. Comparing a chassis dyno b16 (155whp with same mods) to yours (185hp), that means ~650hp.
They are pretty crazy little rice burners. The K-series are even wilder, but they have aweful transmissions when you feed it so much torque.
I can personally tell you that my forged LSVTEC (B18B1 1.8L non-VTEC block with CP pistons and Eagle rods with a B16B Civic Type-R head with cams, MLS head gasket, ARP head studs, etc) makes 612 whp with the possibility of making more. It runs on E85 and has a Garrett GTX3582R dual ball bearing turbo. The limiting factor of power is the turbo only had a .63 AR exhaust housing. I just bought a 1.06 AR housing for it. The only sleeve support I have is a blockguard. I also have a Cylinder Support Systems installed JDM B16A in my basement with Wiseco pistons and Eagle rods as a backup.
Awesome stuff!
Will we ever see a big bang 300 Ford?
This is the one we need.
I'll 2nd this
Are you talking about the 6 cylinder 300
Richard @@@@@
@@jwayne1202 Yes Sir
I swear the next time someone ask me about what should they mod in their hot rod engine, turbo or not, I'll scream:
" THE M.F PISTON RING GAP, THAT'S WHAT ! Just make it plenty bigger. Patron Saint of ALL Boosted Engines and Punisher of Crooked Facts , Richard Holdener said and proved so already. "
👌🏻😊👍🏻 Looking forward to next video. U ROCK. 🤘🏻
thnx-if only I would have listened to my future self
An engine I am always curious about, is the Suzuki H27A V6, found in the 98-06 XL-7, and the 05-07 Grand Vitaras. They are all aluminum, closed deck blocks, and supposedly very light (~260 lbs, long block). I have *heard* that the crank is forged, but have never had opportunity to confirm that rumour.
Damn those subs are jumping! Good to see , hope you end up making a lil bit of money for giving us so much good info .
Excellent test! I was wondering if you’re using any specific type of knock monitoring system on these engines. I’ve done some of my own dyno testing, pushing bone stock Honda engines (B18 non Vtec) into the 20+psi territory on several different turbos, all on 93 octane fuel. I know better fuel will make more power and less likely to detonate, but wanted to push the limits of standard pump gas and see what I could get away with. Also, how much ignition timing were you running on the last run of 17psi on the 57mm?
22-no knock sensors
Great stuff Richard. Very impressed how capable all these motors are. Learning so much. Question- if you build a NA motor but are considering boost Down the road approximately 8-10 psi should you ring gap before or wait till you install boost and then ring gap?
gap now-it doesn't hurt power
Hey Richard. I love your channel.i wish I could do that for a living. my dream. You living it.
long hours, little or no pay-its awesome!!
Look up Gene Kim or Robert breaker
1996 B18C Type R, arp headstuds, oem head gasket, e85 and 19 degrees of total timing. 410/277 @ 14.5psi eBay t3/t04e .63 exhaust housing. I road race it at that power level, zero failures.
I was curious why you chose a "medium" size compressor and a .63 hot size. The 57mm 3076r was always the 400hp pump gas turbo i used ten years ago.
Maybe try a modern billet 67mm to 70mm wheel in an anti-surge housing with a hot side around .9-1.0 a/r? Maybe gap it at 22mm top and 24mm second? I wouldn't be surprised to see 700hp.
This video helped me out alot of deciding if I should go turbo or not on my stock b16A, but a quick question, have u ever done a 1.6l engine from a NA Miata 1st Gen? I heard they originally was built to handle boost but I'm curious on how much boost it can handle with stock internals
Ford 2.3 would be great, I’ve heard they’re monsters with a good head on them
They make some mean dirt track motors out of them. Upwards of 250 hp n/a with a mean cam.
The 2.4 Honda’s (k24a2) come with a good head from the factory. But it’s going to be limited by the rods bending at over 800hp. How much power will the stock 2.3 ford rods hold?
Dylan Bellville I’ve heard... crank rods block are good to 600 with the actual turbo coupe pistons, I just wanted to see him destroy those numbers like he has every other motor in existence lol
I would love to see some euro big bang..
M113 5.4 Mercedes!! Would be epic
agreed, even 4.3 and 5.0, as their are cheaper then even e36 IS engines or m50/m52 :D
Or an M117. I'd *love* to see Richard hot-rod the old K-Jet mechanical injection, too.
Testing idea for you, with catch cans and different number/diameter hoses. I’d be curious to see someone hook up a pressure gauge to see how much actual pressure is in the valve train with no vent vs ventilation and what diameter lines.
Super cool video.
Thank you very much!
Can you do a fuel test for 87, 91, 93, E85, Avgas and Race Fuel. Changing the timing to suit each fuel.
I know a lot of people would love to see how far you can take a b series with CSS block (cylinder support system) and simple valve spring upgrades. A big bang 4 cylinder. I can almost guarantee you'd see 1000+hp with a css block pistons/rods and valve spring upgrade.
Great video. I love myth busting :) . I have a question . When are upgraded studs needed ? Is there a certain level of boost that deem it necessary?
Look up on UA-cam
Gene kim
Robert breaker
Love the videos Richard, esp. the LS and B-series stuff as I have feet in both of those camps. Out of interest how much ring gap did you use on the B16?
.008 per 1 inch of bore works
Richard Holdener wouldn’t too much ring gap cause oil consumption issues? Thanks in advance
@@daddyboss907 no because your not modifying your oil control rings. You will have more blow by under boost. That's why you always see oil catch cans with turbo setups
Would love to see that b16 properly gapped and with a modern turbo that would give a nice power curve and see how high it will go!!!
As far as the b18 and stock parts, I always had issues with smashing ringlands and blowby manifesting. I never changed the ring gap I'll admit [in most cases] As far as that motor, pistons are the weak point's. They can make good power.
I’m truly upset that you didn’t record the pulls in the dyno , besides that it’s a great video
Please please please do a LT motor from 93-97 f-body cars. Be really interesting to see what kind of power these would support on some boost.
Love these test, I know it cost a lot of money but maybe down the road you could do a test like this where you test the limits of stock engines that people comment you could test? My test for you would be the toyota 2uz 4.7L, they have weaker rods than the early 1uz but always wanted to see if its the engine fault or the people attempting to tune it.
part of the problem is we don't have a way to mount many of those on the dyno
Many people have been successful including myself running 650whp on stock sleeves. That’s with running h beam rods and forged pistons... I have seen a few gsr engines reach similar power levels completely stock with just head studs but seem to only last 10-15 passes down the strip
Subscribed!!!!
Can you do a video on the Chevy Sprint 1.0 Turbo 3cyl I'm a..... Asking for a friend being a 3-cylinder guy is not something I would usually admit lol
No test nessecary. It'll be ok. I promise.
Great suggestion!
My dad had one of those. Great little cars and a hoot to drive.
The new koeningseg has a 3 cylinder with 600hp, and another 800hp electric system!!
@@richardholdener1727 I own a 1.0 Ecoboost Fiesta as well, which could be a good test. I know those engines are available at wrecking yards from crashes. 2014 to 2017 Fiesta SFE package. Ford showed them at 200hp in an open wheel car in Europe a few years ago. Chris Harris tested it. I'd really like to see how far it can go before total destruction. I'd bet closer to 400hp.
Would love to see this done with modern setup, I’m a dyno tuner, and I’ve gone well into the 400fwhp range on dead stock B16’s without any drama at all. Shops locally have gone 500fwhp standard engines totally untouched at north of 20psi. On E85 with GTX3076 turbo’s generally! Would be interested to see a modern redo.
500 whp on a stock B16A requires over 30 psi-I would like to see an untouched B16A do that
Richard Holdener considering with a GTX3076 they’ll go 350fwhp on 11-12psi on E85. I’d doubt very much that it would require into the 30psi range to do 500whp. Just be interested to see a redo with modern parts.
I have k24a1 with eBay gt3076 /0.82 rear and 98 octane in Aus , 20psi , 11.4deg timing and no knock showing in any logs .rev limit 7100rpm. 10.8-11.1afr.
Engine broke the piston at the gudgeon after a few months . Sump had the rod, bits of piston, gudgeon pin and lower oil control rings all in the sump .
I assume the failure was lack of piston strength and everything else was there to ensure it lived. I can’t see anything else contributing to my failure ? Thoughts ?
Do a k24a1 Richard . Great channel by the way👍
Very cool!
I know its really obscure but I would love to see an audi 2.7tt on the dyno. Some guys run the factory short blocks routinely over 800hp. The 3.0l engine in the family get a bad rap, myths of cylinder walls splitting at 400hp. They are also the most common, the whole car can be had for less than $500 and has the best heads.
I had a ls turbo and cracked a sleeve the piston and rods survived!
silversolb18
That seems strange.
Like to see some numbers on pump gas good video
Even with a good tune you can run high cylinder pressures and bend rods, crack pistons and rings.
hurting parts with just cylinder pressure happens at a very high power level-not at 400 hp
Richard , could the temporary seizing of the rings in the bore bend a rod and make it look like a lean out ? Especially if the the stock rods are a little week eg prone to bending? And also cause a rod to break ?
I know on the 1uz the piston wall clearance was very tight stock about. 010! And the ring gap was like .008! Funny enough on that tight engine almost all the wristpins were very slightly bent. So the theory was that the wristpins were taking the brunt of the force when the engine got hot and the pistons were getting sticky in the bore.