Toyota RAV4 handles the moose test after an update
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- Опубліковано 15 жов 2024
- Toyota has developed an update for the ESC/ESP system, and now the new RAV4 performes quite well in the moose test. You can read the complete story at teknikensvarld...
Here you can see how it performed before the update: • The new Toyota RAV4 fa...
Very good content. The fact that Toyota engineers responded to your testing is a good indication that you're doing a good job. Also, the fact that the engineer can hardly speak English shows that he came directly from the Japanese headquarter to address this issue.
😂😂😂
I love that Toyota stepped up and corrected the issue. Says a lot about a company.
+1 The Senior Mgr of Vehicle Dynamics looked very ashamed and remorseful of his shoddy and dangerous VSC programming.
"Yes, only software change"... Is just so simple!
@@luisubtil why not? software is the simplest way to tweak handling dynamics for a modern car. if that fails, undercarriage components can be changed but it incurs higher development and certification costs.
Hahahah
@@luisubtil He is Japanese... And i trust Japanese technology!
I hope it works
luisubtil you are racist. The guy is shy and not confident in English, not shady.
01:25 Toyota sent one of yakuza member to persuade those guyz Rav4 is better now.
An offer that they can not refuse ;)
Saint Joseph lmao made my day
totally! it doesn't make any sense. Try the car without those things in the side
Maximiliano Pagliero it was a joke buddy
Haha😁😁😁
Yakuza dont send offers...
Not yet convinced, perform the same moose test on the upgraded rav4 without the rigs.
Just a question: why don't you make and publish on youtube more moose tests??? 🙄
A really good question. We would like to publish them here, I hope we will start doing so asap.
@@teknikensvarld Please do.
Teknikens Värld do mid size trucks
@@teknikensvarld Looking forward to seeing more of them!
@@Neon8787 they seem to love testing Toyota cars. They even seemed disappointed when the Hilux passed the moose test.
Chief: what is the cheapest solution?
Engineer: let's hit the brakes.
And also do not do it unless customer SPECIFICALLY begs you to DO IT.
It was just a bad VSC programming in the first place....most of the stabilization control systems use brakes in 4x2 vehicles , so software update is logical approach , and I'm sure all cars would be marked for the update without even customers knowing about it during next maintenance schedule at a dealer or distributors will inform about a "recall" by post. I bought used Lexus IS250 and when i was asking the dealer or Toyota distributor about some other stuff they sent me a recall notice afterwards by post and later on they pointed out the recall when i asked them again about something else by email.
Also I worked at a Renault dealership , we often fixed "yellow recall" stuff without even customers knowing about it. We had the parts on stock and when it came up we just replaced the parts.
@@terrabiker no, Toyota didn't bother telling customers they had a fix for the 19 rav shifting issues, even if customers complained about the problem early on. They never were even decent enough to acknowledge a problem, they just quietly made a fix available. You had to find out about the fix yourself, ask the dealer to apply it, but they insisted on reproducing the symptoms yet again before they would update the firmware. They're HORRIBLE. Mainly worried about covering their butts and stockholders. Customers come last with them.
Chris , scotty kilmer was right all along.
@@klau88873 must have missed that one...
The Japanese guy was talking too much they had to cut him off. Really talkative guy
Without Teknikens Värld, there would be no one to push manufacturers to produce safer vehicles with better handling. Thank you for making the world a safer place.
1:25 dude at far left, not sure if he's living out his anime fantasy or a real-life Japanese vampire.
Yakuza
lmao
Haha
kontroru
Haha im dying dude!
The anti-roll bars might weight the same as the doors, BUT, the farther they are from the rotation point of the vehicle (center of gravity), the more they will cause body roll.
It is exactly the same effect as the distance of the center of gravity to the ground. Your anti-roll are about half meter farther outwards...
So, props for Toyota for allowing such a modification.
I think they are props too, if the car modifications work, they would run the test without the outriggers. How does the mass of the outriggers work, think of a pole with weights on each end ( a dumbbell pole ) imagine twirling the dumbbell pole like a leader of a marching band, if the pole is long it will be slow to twirl, if the pole is short it will twirl rapidly. in the test that outrigger slows down the roll rate of the car during the swerve. I think the test is bogus and not representative of the normal characteristics of the car
@@cyclist3969 True. A test is not a test if it doesn't have the exact same environment as the previous one. That's 101 of experimentation.
The thing that has changed is the vehicle’s roll inertia or it’s resistance to roll. If you push on the roof without the outriggers, the car will roll easier than with the outriggers. So if anything the stability is slightly improved here. In my personal opinion, i do not believe the stability was enhanced by the outriggers to a degree in which they prevented any wheel lift.
Not one single poker face was broken during this entire video
These weights are still somewhat of a cheat: they may not increase the vehicle's mass, but they increase its moment of inertia. So the vehicle becomes more stable vertically, the effect is akin to making the suspension harder. I don't think the effect is pronounced, but it certainly works towards helping the car pass the test.
Huh? Those anti roll rods (or whatever you might call them) will make the car more unstable, not less. The mass is added far from the center of mass, which adds a lot to instability.
Exemplar brand responsability. Must be a reference of customer compromise... Bravo Toyota
This video is complete and absolute proof of why you should never buy a vehicle in the first model years of a redesign. I'm waiting for the refresh to possibly buy a RAV4 Hybrid. I hope Toyota fixes the fuel tank issue by then too because I'd like to buy this car and keep it for at least 10 years.
Thank you for such great information in an excellent video.
Well done guys fantastic you’re making presion on company to do better and better if we’re don’t see on your test we’re don’t believe and only we’re have left with trust well done 👍
Sometimes i wonder how a moose would behave in a moose test.
LOL.
Just like a tank would, destroying everything in its path.
Definitely high enough for this comment.
Answer: However it wants. Just make sure you get out of the way. Lol
Now we're asking the true questions
Never watched videos from you guys until your past RAV4 moose test and great work
You sure were standing close to that moose test. No danger there. 🙄
1:25 that dude on the left wtf
Like_a_Sleeper punk rock dude
@@mrstarbuck9212 no shit big brain
😄 Nlo
That's an anime character
His freakin hair is hilarious🤣🤣
It’s amazing how safe and well modern cars can handle!
i realy they are worst then older cars, they relay to much on electronics, if electronics fail , cars fails! there is so much less mechanical grip in new cars, and compensate tehy need more computers
@@Gefterws I kinda have to disagree here. Take ABS for example. It's not like there's a purely mechanical version of ABS, it's a system that needs to be controlled electronically. If it fails then it just stops working. It's not the big manufacturers are sitting there putting shitty electronics in cars to fuck us over, cars are objectively safer now than they were before. Saying "but the safety electronics can fail" means jack shit, mechanical safety can and do fail too.
Can you clarify what update an owner needs to request at the Toyota dealer? Would it be an update to the VSC system or something broader, or a different descriptor?
Thanks
Look up the service bulletin number online and ask the dealer to apply the fix.
@@chris2790 According to the toyota app, there is no bulletins or updates. How do I know if it's been done?
@@markthompson5803 Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't these guys say Toyota hasn't made it available yet? It's coming in March or something like that? I don't know about using the app for finding stuff. I found out about the TSB for the transmission issue software update online.
He said you have to ask Toyota dealership for it.
"Second quarter" means between April first, and June 30th.
Just head into your local Toyota Dealership, and ask for the VSC update for the RAV4, just like they said in the video.
I would like to see the test with live people and doors.
I understand toyota doesent make this update for all their rav4. In Denmark we sont have moose that suddenly appear on the road so what is the point of having the "moose update"
Do you know if there is generally a difference between ESP tuning in the European market versus the North American market? Should Americans watching this video expect the same models sold at our dealerships to perform similarly?
Its not only on Software, but the wideness, height and heaviness of any vehicles. If you suv is wide and heavy it is likely to never roll because of balance of both sides, but since because cars are made lighter because of fuel economy, they are susceptible to any rollovers. Suvs, Pickups and other high ground vehicles can rollover as well even equipped with a safety feature if facing emergency conditions while in Adrenaline rush
As a Rav4 Hybrid owner in Australia there really is no point in getting this done. I assume the VSC changes negatively other aspects of the car, but out here 99% of the time on the road you're hitting 50-100kg kangaroos, they'll fuck up ya car but you walk away fine, swerving is actually much more dangerous.
Kind of but not really. It also mimics what 'inexperienced' (which also includes experienced drivers who quite simply, don't know how to drive safely) do in some situations when they swerve to avoid any kind of hazard on the road. Interesting though as you're 'regional enough' to experience kangaroos (although I'm 30km out of Brisbane and get them here despite being a mix of residental and rural residential) but don't recognise the damage a cow will do to a vehicle (and it's occupants), if hit a moderate speed (cows are quite good at getting out/finding breaches in fencing). As you know, we have a lot of cows here ;)
does this mean each rav4 will have to go through a software upgrade? or will they make this adjustment at the factory for all models henceforth?
Sounds like tapebonding a broken construction. There is an underlying physics reason why vehicle reacts nervously, and covering that with software is just a way to hide it.
Yeah, it's not a fucking McLaren. It's a bit top heavy with a mushy suspension. Not that difficult, genius.
Is it going to be a recall them? As I understand it's a safety fix, rather than just "better technology". What does Toyota think about this?
Good question, I would like to know also.
It wasn’t a safety requirement, so not a recall.
And also looking at how they are not going to make the patch a default thing, I would guess that there is a tradeoff of some kind. I.e. If you want your rav to pass the test, they can do it for you, but it might compromise something else, like comfort, for instance. IMHO.
Daniyar Tabaldyev It IS default. ALL Rav4s from 2020 model on get the patch.
Moose test is not a safety requirement. It's just this guy being obsessed about the moose. That's all.
Hybrids are notoriously poor in this test due to battery weight. Assuming the gas Rav4 would do much better. Can you confirm?
Do the outriggers effect the moment of inertia in any significant way? I have a feeling that would change the vehicle's roll characteristics a decent bit
If anything, it will make the car more unstable, so it's in Toyota's favor if it passes with them on.
@@H4g3N87 Are you sure? I would have thought it would have made the car react slower, making it easier for the Stability Control to react.
@@MysteriousSteve1234 The rods sticking out will act as a barbell weight, as the weight is far away from the center of mass. Just imagine what would happen if you extended the rods, say 10 meters/yards in both directions. It would likely tip over with even the smallest steering input at high speeds (that is if you ignore that the bars themselves will keep the car upright, but that's not the point).
Also adding to that, the original problem the Rav4 had was tipping over, with the inner back wheels easily losing touch with the ground when turning hard.
PS: I'm not an English native speaker, so I might not make much sense when trying to translate physical principles, sorry!
@@H4g3N87 I understand what you're getting at but I think your understanding is backwards. The farther you move mass from the center of gravity, decreasing the moment of inertia, the slower the the object will roll with a given force. Think of a tightrope walker holding a pole, it gives them more time to react making it easier for them to correct.
@@MysteriousSteve1234 Yes, but the reason you can balance better with a balancing rod, is that you can act against its inertia with your hands, effectively leaning against it (for short periods of time), but when it's fixed in place like in this car it works against the stability of the car. Although the moose manouver is two very short, opposite turns, so you might be right.
This is great news! Do you have any idea what the code or reference number for the update will be?
It would be good to know so that owners can be sure that they are requesting the right update and to check that it’s been done properly.
Big plus to Toyota engineers to make car better and safer. That the way to do it. 👍
Question: why didn't Toyota perform any moose test during development?
Because it wasn’t really a required test to pass to sell a car in global markets. Only few American cars pass this test.
@@buellterrier3596 Mazda have been doing well in moose tests.
@@9up9up9up That's good, when more Japanese companies like Mazda do well, it will be good for a lot of people.
The “moose” test is done by a Swedish car magazine. No government conducts it.
hopefully the highlander was updated also, that thing flipped if you sneezed on it, the lady I worked with got a new one and within a week she flipped it taking a sharp turn at 35mph, just driving to work, she argued with her husband she didn't want it after that, said she wasn't even going fast.
Has anyone received this update? What's the version?
Host: "What do you feel about your car?"
Technical Sr. Manager: "Its better now"
I wish my life was too
So... Why aren't they putting this "update" into production?
The fact that it's "by request only" tells me there must be some negative effect of this software modification.
Otherwise why not make it standard (as in: Put into production without a customer having to request it)
Hello @teknikensvarld, I'm a owner of one RAV4 concerned. I went to my dealer Toyota Dealer here in Germany for the Software update. They told me that there not Software ESP update. I shown them this video. But they still do not want to do that. Please what to do in this case? I can provide you all the details if needed.
I’m confused. So 2020 RAV4 come with the tweak or we have to ask for it?
If I just bought a new 21, I would have the updated version I’d assume. Right? 😩
What about the hilux? Did they made any updates? Last time is performs really bad, it nearly tipped over.
I read your atricle and watched the video but there isn't anything indicating a software update version? How will I know if I'm running the fixed version of the VSC software? I'm going to be buying a new 2021 RAV4 and I'm guessing when I ask the salesman about this he'll say, "...no need to worry, it's running the updated version of the VSC software." How can I verify this?
Thanks!
Their moose test isn't the same as the VDA lane change test.. Great for clicks though.. , what is the friction coefficient of the test surface?
If its not becoming a standard in the software, what is the cons of upgrading that they haven't told us? If there were only pros and it's as simple as software they would just implement it.
I've driven a lot of Toyotas where the ESP intervenes way too early in normal driving and it's annoying. It's not an update I'd ask for.
the aluminum outriggers are putting weight farther out then what the doors would do so I'm pretty sure what he said is bs, also I would imagine wind picks up on those outriggers not a lot but some and helps it brake when he removes his foot from the gas
"Yes, only software change."
Yet they won't give the 2019 Rav4 Android Auto.
Android Auto suck, get an iphone.
do those aluminum weights come standard?
That Japanese engineer cannot breathe.
It seems he was gonna lose his job or maybe he lost his job already.
Thanks Sweden for this necessary and amazing test.
Are you saying the handling characteristics of a 2020 model is different than a 2019?
I wonder if average drivers would be able to pass a moose test. They should make use of ordinary drivers, not expert test drivers. Just saying.
That wouldn't be feasible if you want to compare cars. You'll need an experienced driver to get results that are comparable between cars, since you'll need to do the same manouver every time. In other words, they're testing the cars, not a random driver.
@@H4g3N87 the op is saying... whats the point of a test if normal people who will be driving these cars cant perform such maneuvers...besides, if a driver can't see a moose... we have more worst problems. This test is like testing a passenger airplane if i can do a barrel roll.
Also, their maneuvers are wrong, you need to hit brakes first prior to many drastic maneuvers, these guys yank the steering wheel... like they want to find faults just for finding faults.
The moose test is actually part of the driver training in Norway, probably in Sweden as well. You have to be able to do a maneuver like this to get your license.
@@styx85 Since when? I did not have a 'moose test' when training. Dodging mannequins in slippery conditions, yes, but no specific moose test.
@@ilovebohol They yank the steering wheel because that's what a lot of people will do, because in a lot of situations you don't have time to slow down and you have to yank the wheel, because yanking the wheel is orders of magnitude more preferable then lobbing a 700kg moose through your windscreen.
You never do tests like these with optimal conditions, that would defeat their purpose.
It looked like it changes direction very well
So why mount the arm at the door during testing? During testing, shouldn't the car be exactly same as the normal one that we are driving?
Japanese safety concerns.
At 1:26 if the dude on the far left designed this car I’m buying one!
These dudes seems to love testing Toyotas. They even seemed disappointed when the Hilux passed the moose test.
I'm sure when they saw the Hilux do poorly in the Roof Crush test they weren't disappointed lol 💩
@@4nciite got 2 Hilux, and they're solid workhorses. If you want to drive quick in the roads...buy a car! Simple.
Aluminum construction will be included in standard trim?
I am not convinced. Why is your moose test this time so short and simple even went to Spain for the test? Your original moose test last year was so thorough and complete.
You should test the car as it is being sold, not with extra bits glued on that aren't road legal.
Thanks for the great work! I am looking to buy this car and will definitely ask for this update!
is it an upgrade (new system) or and update (correction to old system)?
Where can I download the software update from? My dealer doesn't even know that there is an update.
Toyota had problems with bad programmed ESP in Land Cruiser 150 (in US), Hilux (at least two gens.), Rav4 - every model was "caught" with these and every time Toyota solved the problem asap. What is wrong with one of the biggest car manufacturers on the planet? Is it a real problem to fix these after internal tests but before market debut? I can not get it.
but what does consumer reports have to say? they are really good at these tests, just let them know what results you want and they will keep testing till they get it
Ask for what update? Spell out the technical term please.
but have considered that is the hybrid version which has an addded weight by the battery pack and the additional AC /DC wiring inside?
Francisco Gallardo That IS the hybrid.
So is this softwsre update done at service
Hope everyone will get that software upgrade!!
Ni gör ett bra jobb och ni tycks verkligen ha, tillverkarnas öron 👌 har v90 testats, hittar inget eller är det bara de som inte klarar det son visas på UA-cam?
I have a new rav4 gen5 which was made in 2019, what is the options can be to update to new esp version?
I am pretty sure that my car has an issue with ESP control.
We are not stupid to believe that simply changing the program makes the car safer to maneuver. It relates to the suspension structure and construction rules.
So, are the 2021 RAV4s coming WITH this update then? The dealer I've spoken to had no clue about this issue.
Good question nobody wants to answer. My feeling is, they just mocked up the update, but never released it to the public. There's a need to test again, because if Toyota is just pretending an upgrade it will be a scandalous behavior, comparable with VW engine scandal globally.
what trim did they use? would these results be affected by the dynamic torque vectoring feature?
Is that video available in english language?
How would you know if you have the update on a new 2021 Rav 4 ?
Thx for great test update does anyone have toyota reference number for that software update to check if it was done via toyota dealership network??
Good job, Teknikens Varld! Keep the pressure on lazy automakers!
Acá en mi país nunca llegará esa actualización de software, que me dirías tu, es o no recomendable comprar una rav 4 2020?
so i have to ask to add the aluminum rig on the side ??
1:25 the friendly looking gentleman on the left came straight from the shadow roalm...
Hakuna Matata 😭😭
Did you perform moose tests for highlander we?
Hey so we got a 2021 model just this february, do we have to ask for the update as well?
From what I was told you have to ask explicitly for this update as even new Rav4's ship with "standard" firmware.
does highlaner do moose ttest
My upgrade came in this week!!! Love it!
note to self: new weekend project, get duct tape and anti-rollover kit.
I was couple of times in situation I had to avoid something in the road but never did maneuvers you performing in these tests.
I dont think your tests are pointless but its dangerous, especially if you are not ready and not planning to do so in real driving.
If I were you, I would make additional test to see what is the maximum corner speed for the vehicle tested.
Love your videos, you are few remaining professional journalist left on the planet.
The update you need is to buy a Subaru.
@@officealireza9097 Why?
@@officealireza9097 And some spare head gaskets.💩
so is this the rav4 2020 model?
So ur telling me it only needed 2 arms to improve?
fantastic job ..you have kept the giants on their toes....
One of the things that so minor, software update is enough. Impressive. Usually Toyota will release a campaign that cover everyone not just any car under warranty.
I have a feeling that if I needed to do the moose test I would just drive straight ahead
Extremely high risk of death. Hitting a moose is not like hitting a deer. The body will crush you through the windshield.
The engineer has a nice Kimi Räikkönen vibe
I respect the Japanese for taking it seriously!
LMAO, dude they have released 3 generations with the same problem. The new RAV4 failed it even harder. They do not take it seriously.
I have the Same model but hier in Germany there is no SW Update. I have asked my Toyota dealer. not good!
2 persons speaking English as second language...priceless
What is your second language?
because of suspension, just change the harder customize one, and it will be fine.
I daily drive a Rav4 2019 hybrid, so I am well used to it, how it handles, and I do throw it around. I have drifted through corners from roads to a motorway on ramp using S1/S2, performed fast U-turns, moved through traffic quickly at above highway speeds, made emergency stops, and so on. I know how it well.
I would like to try the Moose Test, but it feels unrealistic to me.
I left foot brake, so why can’t I brake and turn left, hard right and throttle, brief left flick to counter body roll, accelerate to the right turn, hard brake and turn, and rhen power out of the left/ straighten up??
Why no brakes?? Makes the test nonsensical to me.
I know the Rav4 gets unstable due to its height and weight, but it has 500kg of batteries and motors down low, which assist it a little. I have driven a line that might have passed the test before, however I don’t understand why the test doesn’t let you brake?? That’s what a normal driver would do, and with left foot braking you can be on the brake and power simultaneously or rapidly alternating. Annoyingly, the Rav4 does give you a dashboard warning about having the break and accelerator pressed at the same time. I don’t know why it doesn’t just engage some clutch or the brakes while building revs? That’s what I would like it to do, and if an engineer reads this, why don’t you program it to do that? It has lots of uses.
Also, swap the electric motors so you have more power in the rear axel.
well, because an average driver does not know this, when then brake hard and turn, then skid and panic
bro really asked why the tests werent done with a race driver because general population is made of race drivers 😒
It's because your average driver would just panic and turn the opposite way sometimes not even letting off the gas
hi! did you test honda pilot? thanks ! greetings from Chile
Now, do the test on icy road.