Guess what? He originally was gonna win. Around July 2022, a leak of Quantumania was shared around Reddit. Looking back, it was a completely accurate summary of the movie...until the climax. Instead of a deus ex machina portal, the Ant-Fam (another abandoned concept) had the same Quantum Tunnel wristwatches from Endgame. Their devices are fixed and they go back to Earth, but Scott is left behind and Kang proceeds to beat the shit out of him ala Thanos to Tony in Infinity War. Hope goes back for Scott, but is is what Kang wanted. He steals her gadget and escapes, leaving Scott and Hope stranded. Hank and Janet would promise Cassie that they would get her dad and their daughter back. The movie would end with everyone terrified that Kang is now free. In fact, the mid-credit scene would have been Cassie on her computer witnessing history be deleted and rewritten. They canned this in favour of a joke about Scott's old boss being bad at baking. Now the writers were told to say that the original ending was scrapped because it was too similar to the end of Ant-Man and the Wasp. In reality, it was because Feige was salty that the movie's plot got leaked.
Yeah, or at least getting a double knocked out, as Ant man had to sacrifice his life to kill Kang. " I don't have to win, we just BOTH have to lose" line would have gone so hard with this. This would have been a memorable and bitter sweet heroic ending of Ant man. This could have been a sacrifice that goes almost hard as Iron man's sacrifice
Or better yet, the thing that Kang got shrunk down into could've easily been something he wanted in order to gain power beyond imagination. What if when he got shrunk, it sent him to a realm below even the quantum realm, like the beyond realm?? And he knew this, so Ant Man thinks they won (but still questions at the end) cause in actuality they made their situation 1000x worse
@@jarrettmaynard6306 , i thought the exact same thing. he couldve been shrunk down to the Beyond realm and become a nerfed up version of the Beyonder who can time travel without needing a machine. he could appear in Doomsday and help Doom but in Secret Wars Kang betrays him.
How I would Save Kang in the MCU Ant-Man and The Wasp Quantumania: 1. Kang kills Hank Pym 2. Defeats and traps Scott Lang & Hope van Dyne inside the quantum realm 3. Tells Janet van Dyne and Cassie Lang that he will burn their timeline last after he escapes the quantum realm. 4. In the post credits scene Kang starts the multiversal war by attacking the council of Kangs.
I had a similar idea. Phase 4, keep it grounded focus on the fallout of Endgame and slowly build up the multiverse. Phase 4 concludes with the Avengers: Secret Invasion which can be a result of the snap. Phase 5, Kang is a threat and the multiverse is unleashed, the heroes defeat Kang only to learn they created him. Concludes the Phase 5 with Avengers: The Kang Dynasty and the multiverse war begins. Phase 6 you finally introduce Doctor Doom and The Beyonder or Beyonders (take your pic) and everything concludes with a two part epic. Avengers: Time Runs Out and Avengers: Secret Wars. Your video is absolute peak my friend.
I think that was always the plan. To slowly introduce the multiverse. If you look at the original slate for phase 4 back in 2019…. It looked really good. It looked like they were trying to slowly introduce the multiverse. The reason why it was kind of rushed because of Covid and then they shuffled a lot of projects
@@kadencastro8168 I think they were doing a decent job in the first few films/series after Endgame, with the Falcon, WandaVision and Loki all doing a decent job of showing the aftermath of what was going on after the Blip, for different characters and people. Then both Spider-Man movies and Shang-Chi either utilized the multiverse (Spider-Man) or hinted at Kang (the Beacon from the Ten Rings)..but then....the shitshow and random movie the Eternals came out, and suddenly the writing went downhill with Doctor Strange, Thor and Wakanda Forever feeling clunky and off.
@@hiphipjorge5755 I mean… it’s find to have random movies because not everything has to hint the multiverse or Kang. I don’t think eternal is random because they’re pretty important in the comics. The MCU wanted to do something different and unique. Especially phase 4 was all about introduction and reintroduction. My opinion I did enjoy eternals, Doctor Strange 2, and wakanda forever. I will say some of the ideas from eternals and doctor strange 2 could’ve been better. Thor 4 I have a mix feelings for but it was a waste of potential. Could’ve been the best Thor movie if the writing was better.
Kang was a fubble, but he was no where near the biggest humble for Hollywood in a century. That title easily goes to the DC cinematic universe or the Star Wars sequel trilogy.
Rumors has it that they are done with Kang and he won't be mentioned again. I hope they at least acknowledge him in Doomsday, maybe have Doom mention killing off the council off-screen. I would also like to see Doom wipe out the TVA to give that plot point a proper conclusion.
uh well, just rewatch Loki Ss2 and you'll see that the TVA have effectively dealt with Kang OFFSCREEN ALREADY. They have completely wiped him off the map at this point, I doubt they would even bother to mention him anymore
I hope someone eradicates the TVA. I saw loki season 2. I know he is already doing there job for him. The only thing they have left is for each captain or officer to become the petty tyrant of their own handful of worlds.
Having them killed by Doom is not a proper conclusion at all! The Quantumania post credit was clearly setting them up as big bads. This would be disappointing beyond any level.
This pretty much hits the nail on the head. Part of why a lot of the Post-Endgame MCU doesn't work (besides many of its stories just being mediocre, or straight bad writing wise overall), is it never felt like it had a real purpose. Most of the individual stories were very disconnected from each other, and it made the idea that all these characters share the same universe even harder to believe than it already was. Look at Phases 1-3. They definitely were not perfect all throughout... but they had clear objectives. Phase 1, set up the general universe, and then established Thanos as the big overall threat by the end. Phase 2, establish and build-up the Infinity Stones. And then of course, Phase 3. Shows the Avengers slowly drifting apart, but at the worst time. Since Thanos pulls up and... you know. Thus by the end, the Avengers finally all come together again, and take Thanos down. A complete story basically. Phase 4 feels like it wanted to play all the cards in its hands immediately, instead of slowly building up Kang or anyone else as a Thanos level threat like they should've been. Like... what do the Eternals, Ms Marvel, Moon Knight, and even Spider-Man have to do with Kang and each other now? Something something multiverse...? As you said, instead of rushing into multiverse stuff for the easy fanservice, they should've started small with focusing on the Post-Thanos Snap fallout... Though that plot thread basically got treated like a joke immediately... thanks to Far From Home. (Will never understand why that's a Phase 3 movie lol. Endgame should've ended Phase 3. And then Far From Home could've been a perfect start to Phase 4 if it leaned into that plot thread more. Blah.) Then after that, slowly show the Avengers noticing things being wrong timeline wise, as a direct consequence to their time travelling to stop Thanos. Kang comes onto the scene, and have Kang Dynasty as a finisher to Phase 4. Yeah, maybe debut him in smaller appearances first. But give him actually significant appearances in the main films, and don't have him die to freaking ants or a knife lol. Like say... hm idk... an Avengers film? Will never understand how Phase 4 didn't end with an Avengers movie... its why the current Avengers team basically feels non-existent. Besides the many other reasons. We don't even know whose technically an Avenger or not anymore lol. Then by the end of that film... instead of the Avengers immediately punking Kang, making him seem like he'll eventually go down like Thanos... give him the win in that movie. Which then unleashes the multiverse, and puts it under control of a TVA-like organization. Giving the rest of the saga a sense of dread. But... in a post credit scene, tease Dr Doom rising up as a threat as well. So throughout Phase 5, the Avengers are working to take things back from Kang, sure. But also, Dr Doom is slowly becoming a menace in his own right. Maybe just terrorizing the Fantastic 4 at first... but then quickly expanding his ambitions greatly. So then what can the Phase 5 Avengers movie be? Doomsday. Because the Avengers will fail to defeat Kang again... but this time DOOM steps up, and actually gets it done. Which singlehandedly allows him to take over the multiverse. Merging it all together to form Battleworld, and becoming its sole ruler. But show that few people actually want to challenge Doom... because he IS the one who beat Kang. Making him this false savior type character like Thanos, but on a greater scale. Since many people will see him as the rightful ruler of this new world, when the Avengers know dang well he isn't worthy. So what does that lead into? Phase 6. The Avengers movie is, of course, Secret Wars. Which basically amounts to a giant Team Avengers vs Team Dr Doom war. Dethroning Doom, and finally undoing the damage done since all this began. The multiverse is now in full effect like Marvel wants so bad, Doom and Kang are naturally built up as recurring threats throughout all the Multiverse Saga phases. Would be perfection. After that... shoooot idk. Would probably go into a "Cosmic Saga" with Galactus. Maybe all the Battleworld shenanigans attracted him to the Avengers. So now they gotta deal with t h a t madness. But that's pretty much it. After that, reboot mfs lol. Stakes can't get much higher.
As much as I'm intrigued by RDJs role as Doom, recasting Kang would've been the better choice. Teasing Victor for Secret Wars would've set him up to be the next big bad
It wasn't at all smart it was the easy way to escape the mess they created just another marvel cheap tactic to make people have good faith in them again instead of looking at the mess they have done stick to there guts start over by recasting someone else to continue to play Kang but they didn't because they are lazy as fuck and keep looking for the easiest of ways to make a profit at this point I wouldn't be surprised if they ended up ruining doom's reputation like how they did both Kang and Ultron and then this will be the final straw nobody will give a shit about the MCU after that@@rayanvij3457
@@rayanvij3457 but it does show the mcu's severe lack of planning and integrity. If they had mapped out the entirety of kang's character arc for the next few films, they would've stood by it. They would've recasted him and done a soft retcon (the way they have handled other characters in the past) because the films would've revolved around him and his worldbuilding. Them replacing him with doom and booting his character out of the story only emphasizes how poorly they thought this phase out because their next move is, as you said, purely done out of the desire to attract a wider audience.
Didn't help that in the contract only Johnathan Majors could play as Kang, so for those who say they could've just recast him... they couldn't. With all that happening, sadly legal issues and risk of bad PR around the actor was too much of a problem so we got to here. I hope that contract will expire so we can try again with Kang.
@@fgvcosmic6752 Got me on that, but probably could be either Johnathan Majors didn't want his character to be recasted so that only HE can play Kang. Or it was just of means to save money and production trouble, since there was controversy around Terrance Howard being fired and replaced with Don Cheadle. Don didn't do anything wrong, but Ike Perlmutter was the problem. Either way, it didn't help they didn't plan for this in hindsight if anything were to happen.
Just realised this as I was watching: The CW Flash show did exactly what you're talking about in the beginning. At the end of S1, Barry goes back in time to save his mother but fails, however this causes a black hole to open up in his city. In S2 we find out he's able to close the black hole but turns out it was actually a multiversal gateway and and the villain Zoom finds Barry's universe because of it. So the big bad of S2 exists only because Barry went to the night his mother died. Then at the end of S2, he goes back in time to actually save his mother this time and creates Flashpoint. He allows his mother to die again, erasing Flashpoint but forever changing the timeline. A new villain Alchemy arises and he's giving people the powers they had in Flashpoint but don't have in the main timeline. Alchemy is revealed to be working for Savitar, a time remnant Barry created to defeat Zoom back in S3. So basically S2 and 3's villains could have been avoided if only Barry had not gone back in time in S1. It's pretty crazy that a "bad" show like that managed to get that right but the MCU couldn't.
Crazy to think characters like Maria Hill (specifically), Queen Ramonda (?), and Aunt May all pointlessly die albeit not having a lot of gravity with their presence in future stories. Although, Hank Pym survives pointlessly in Quantumania, albeit delivering some good lines and kicking butt, though, his death definitely would've been weighty to establish Kang isn't d*cking around, and could solidify Scott and Hope's characters. .(despite Evangeline Lily 'leaving acting' soon after).
Honestly I feel like it's going to really hurt a lot of people's investment in the MCU a lot of people only watched Ant-man And Loki To stay on top of the story and follow who the next big bad will be only for the story to completely abandoned its own story And completely changed course after suckering people into watching two now completely irrelevant stories
@@yami122not to mention because of this decision, Doctor Doom *WILL* be ruined. There’s not enough time to build him up. And all these other projects aside from Fantastic Four and Avengers Doomsday and Secret Wars won’t even feature Doctor Doom. What’s even the point of bringing in Doctor Doom if there’s not going to be any proper build-up for him? They should’ve just recast Kang.
@@The_Protectors_Universe I completely agree honestly I feel any Avengers film should use a villain who's already been established age of Ultron really suffered from having Ultron only last a single film with no buildup a character infamous in their comics for how hard it is to get rid of And yet he's disposed of in a single movie And it appears they're going to do the same with Dr Doom of introduce him in the same movie he dies in And Kang the conqueror We'll now have an extremely disjointed and ruined storyline involving him where his entire existence in the MCU will then build up to a Council of Kings that never will amount to anything olives came to conquer was able to do was hype up the threat of his variants yet that's going to amount to nothing no Council of Kangs no multiversal war honestly it makes it actually kind of silly The way supposedly an entire organization needed to be built to stop this Council from destroying the multi papers yet with almost no effort apparently kang the conqueror and all his variants were able to be disposed of off screen Imagine it Infinity War Started With some villain other than Thanos Announcing that they had killed Thanos off screen and then they end up being the Villain of the movie with Thanos amounting to nothing And what really sucked is it basically means that that whole character of gang the conqueror is never going to get a good use in the MCU it's worse now than if they had never used him at all because if they hadn't used him yet they could have used him in the future now the character is just kind of wasted And there's not that many MCU villains that they can use as Avenger level threat that are on par with Thanos most villains are either to week or way too powerful to the point where they're probably never gonna be able to be in the MCU at all
@@yami122 yeah if you tell people to get invested in character, then due to your incompetence you butcher them, then blame it on actor (to my memory Marvel was thinking of dropping Majors because Quantumania flopped ... as if this was his fault .. like how ? I thought that movie sucked based on writing and directing, none of which are actor's job) and then under finding any excuse to get rid of actor you just pretend that story didn't existed .. you basically spit on dedicated fan's face. I know. They did same to Blade fans for decades. They let IP be ruined by Goyer's incompetence + malice, blamed it on Snipes and pretended there is no topic to have.
I've been saying forever now that Kang shoudl've been the antagonist to an avengers movie that wasn't an Endgame level movie, but instead a step in the direction so we see the new roster before secret wars and all. Spot on at 9:22
I would have liked Kang to get his Avengers film just as Doom is being introduced. Then make Secret Wars a 2 part with Doom in both, and of course you can have lots of cameos, credit scenes, and parts of shows further flesh out Doom. Hell, Kang plays the Loki to Doom’s Thanos- maybe even stands in for Molecule Man.
After watching deadpool 3, there is a quick jab at the multiverse/time travel narrative. The jab just being that the TVA doesn't matter and DP bringing in characters from different multiverses doesn't really matter any more. Disney is going to just sweep this storyline under the rug because as a business they would rather do that than to either own up to their mistake or try to take a chance at some creative writing.
Damn right. I didn’t realise this until some review pointed it out but Deadpool and Wolverine contradicted the already convoluted rules of the Multiverse Saga. Multiverse of Madness establishes that a being from outside their home dimension entering another will cause an Incursion. The longer they stay there, the more liable they are of causing Doomsday for the world they've intruded on. That was why the Illuminati wanted Strange to leave immediately. Deadpool and Wolverine brings up the concept of Anchor beings. If an Anchor dies, Doomsday is around the corner. Logan was the Anchor of Deadpool's world, so he just says "Fine, I'll find another Logan". The movie ends with Wolverine and X-23 living with Deadpool. So, Deadpool's world has a new Anchor but an Incursion's about to happen. The funniest part is, though, that despite everything I've said, this doesn't bother me. Marvel used Deadpool to openly admit that the Multiverse wasn't working.
That’s also a classic move in the books too. There was this one time they turned Wolverine into a savage animal looking, feral thing. It was a weird idea. Everyone hated it so much they changed him back and swept it under the rug. As you said, That’s probably gonna be the case with Kang too.
I always thought Annihilus should have been the next villain after Thanos instead of Kang. The Annihilation story was great and would have worked well post Infinity Saga. It also would have been a great way to introduce the Nova Corps (or at least a multiverse version similar to the ones in the comics). I mean if I remember correctly Thanos and Annihilus even fought each other in the comics. That would have been amazing in the MCU.
I thought that in Season 2 of Loki, they were setting up OB to replace Kang. Loki literally gives a variant of him the TVA Handbook, and he invents multiversal travel. He loses his wife in trying to help Loki, and Loki just ends up abandoning him. It’s the perfect setup. A shame they didn’t go that way.
In my opinion, Kang is probably the EASIET character they could've recasted. I mean Loki, Spider-man No Way Home, and (SPOILER ALERT) Deadpool & Wolverine established that not all variants look the same, so they could pick a new actor as a different Kang variant
I had assumed after Endgame that the time travelling technology wouldve been sealed away by Bruce (which he shouldve since he got a lecture from the Ancient One) and eventually in the distant future, Nathaniel discovers the technology and plays with it because he's bored. I really thought that was the most logical route for the MCU but here we are :3 Excited for RDJs Doom tho and I'd probably lower my expectations on the upcoming multiversal films.
Kang must finish the multiverse saga, he started and ended many times, thus makes the Loki tv show just a waste of time, and Loki s1 and s2 were aswome, this is a desperate commercial move, instead of a creative move, after this im not interested in marvel anymore 😢😢
Didn’t his character end in season 2? They explicitly say that he who remains plan failed, and that kang variants are handled by the TVA. They gave closure to the 2 main Kangs, the council is the only one left.
As much as I’m excited to see the arrival of Dr Doom It just feels like all the build up they did for Kang in Loki season 1 and 2 Shang-Chi The mid-credit scene in Quantumania All that was for nothing And just a waste of time It just feels like they’re changing course a little too late at this point in the saga We’re 2 years away from avengers 5 and 6 Like how are they gonna set up this new villain in this short time frame?
@@Mr_Death031 I'ma probably one of the few here but, I honestly never liked Kang as a villain. He Who Remains was an interesting villain in Loki, but the scientist variant was extremely annoying. And the fact that he lost in Antman is just sad. Marvel purposefully fumbled this guy over and over again. If Thanos got defeated in Guardians of the Galaxy 1, he would be a joke. And the concept of Kang himself can be tedious. One of Age of Ultron's flaws was that Ultron kept dying and coming back. Doing that with Kang can go wrong, but eh.
Jonathan Majors got in trouble with the law. so basically unlike DC Marvel was being smart for this have nothing to do with him afterwards, unlike DC who kept Ezra Miller when they should’ve recasted a different actor to be the flash
Okay but the case is more complicated. Majors was charged with UNINTENTIONAL harm .. as in he didn't want to harm her, he harmed her in self-defense. She contradicted her statements several times, was caught on camera being agressive, there were also witnesses telling how she behaved .. I honestly think Marvel just fired him under any excuse, because prior to this case they were already scapegoating entire Quantumania flop on him alone.
I don't know if it's been officially announced that Kang's character won't be coming back to the MCU. They could've just recasted him, but if they're not, I don't know how they can salvage the rest of the cinematic universe. I can see how nostalgia and fan service can end up ruining something like devaluing legendary characters in the Star Wars sequels or misdepicting certain characters in the Flash. But man, Deadpool and Wolverine was damn good movie.
So a character specifically catered around a concept of multiverse, couldn't POSSIBLY just be recast as a different dude??? Like i don't understand it at all. Just cast someone else!!! Its a dam variant!!!!
1: He very easily could have easily recasted him like with Rhodey, Robert, Thaddeus and a bunch of other MCU characters. They should have done the same thing with T'Charlie instead of just having tech-wizard Shuri take the mantle. And 2:It didn't work because he's a very famous actor now, and having him play a character who's usually 97% in a TV-looking mask wasn't going to cut it
@@toyanthaog5109 ik but they really did him dirty at the end. He should've either killed scott, cut off one of his major limbs or have him trapped in the quantum realm permanently. Him being defeated by fucking ant man did no justice to his character
This is the best summary of the MCU's narrative issues that I have ever seen. I never understood why they never built off of the narratives they created; they just abandoned them and moved on. I thought for sure that a lot of the new threats would be responses to what happened in Endgame. Like alien empires or Atlantis shows up to take control because humans don't know what they are doing a created a galactic tragedy, so now it's time for them to take over. And yeah, why is time travel not mentioned with a time traveling villain?! Excellent video!
I agree. Man, I agree, and I have been saying this since last year. I am sorry, but Johnathan Majors didn't make a good Kang anyway, imo. His acting was so underwhelming, with his "best" performance being in Quantum Mania. But Kang, the character, was a very good villain. And since it's the multiversal saga, they should have just replaced JM, found a BETTER black male actor, and then claim that THAT new Kang was an unknown variant. It would have been an easy fix. But instead they went with Doom, who deserves to be the big bad in his own phase, not picking up where Kang left off. That should have stuck with Kang. It could have worked.
I absolutely agree. I kept waiting for Kang to connect to the Endgame storyline and smaller aspects of each film through phases 4-5 and nothing. Then they had every Kang variant beat by third tier rando characters making him a kind of non-threat. I have no idea why Feige entrusted the overreaching storytelling to two Rick and Morty writers with little to zero feature film writing experience, either but there it is. It should have been amazing but hearing what they were planning, I'm glad Kang is on permanent ice. They would not have done him or Majors any justice. It's disappointing, and I blame Feige for not putting his best and most experienced writers on it.
Jonathan Majors did a brilliant job in phase 5 and was always loyal to Marvel, even after being fired and replaced. Marvel Studios must now do the right thing, listen to fans and rehire Majors: there's room for Doom and Kang in the MCU. And we haven't seen the destruction of the Council of Kangs yet.
Sadly Marvel as usual found a scapegoat for their failures. They were already willing to throw him out for failure of Quantumania .. which was mostly writing mess, not acting mess.
@@cracmar03 I'm pretty sure the production of Quantumania was sabotaged (e.g. reshoots), many people at Marvel did not want that movie and phase 5 to do well.
To be honest, Kang was a terrible choice of a villain given the complex of his time travel and origins and how he is often an Avengers threat and barely a Marvel Comics themed threat. I mean lets be honest Phase 4 was a mess due to higher ups meddling and not having a clear idea of where to go after Endgame. Plus, you cannot do an adaptation of Secret Wars without Dr. Doom Playing some role. To me, this twist to the narrative would be exciting to see and if Kang and his multiple variants pay the price for Doom to rise, then so be it.
For God's sake, how many times do i have to tell you.... COMICS AND MOVIES ARE DIFFERENT. A secret wars movie without Doom would've been fine as long as well written.
For me, here's how Kang should have worked. We start with season 2 of Loki which is very different because Loki and Sylvie go to reality 616 where they are arrested by Wong, the latter wonders why they are there and Loki explains to him that their reality will disappear and so Wong will ask them who will do that? But at the same time we see the quantum kingdom with Kang C who says: one of my variants is dead it is now time for my conquest. Then Quantumania which takes place the same except that Hank and Janet die in atrocious suttering by Kang. After the same post-credit scene except for Victor Timely that we will have already seen in Loki season 2. Then we have The Marvels which has a different story where the bad guys are Gravik and Dar-Benn but Gravik survives because he betrays Dar-bernn and then flees the original end that we should have had this to say Monica and Carol who uses their power on Kamala's bracelets and we witness Monica's baptisms in Photon so post-credit scene a similar but the second we see Wong, Shang-chi, Kamala and Scott discussing the message because they have the same energy signature as Scott when he came out of the quantum kingdom so Scott explains to them that it is necessary Destroy the ten rings and bracelets because it belongs to Kang and Wong wonders who is Kang act Loki told him that this being who can destroy the multiverse is called He Who remains but at the times when Scott says Kang it cuts off to show us another variant of Kang that will be a little Thanos (i.e. he will appear in different post-credit scenes) and will turn out to be Mr. Gryphon. Secret invasion will not exist instead we will have Mss Marvel season 2 with an Easter egg from Sentry because she will search the archives of the AIM and she will make the joke with Superman but after a post credit scene we have Kamala, Scott, Peter who looks at the Avengers tower where the A (the logo) is replaced by Queng industries. and after that happens the same except that in Captain America 4 we have post-credit scene glue Mr gryohon who recovers Vibranium, in Thunderbolts the same except that it’s Adamantium and Armor Wars where Rhodey informs Riri that he gave half of Tony's Mr Gryphon because the technological prowess of Queng industries are great but post credit scene we have Mr gryphon who creates armour and says: you are not ready for what awaits you the Avengers. And there screams are heard from children, women, men and avengers after the helmet disappears then Doctor strange 3 where strange and Cléa return and learn that a being will arrive and will destroy reality but the post-credit scene we see Mr gryphon go to The void for Avengers Kang dynasty where Rama-tut totally eliminates all variants of Loki but also "inhabitants of the void"
I feel the biggest issue of the recent MCU is that it just hasn't been building up to anything nothing of consequences happening in Recent movies or shows the Infinity Saga had the Infinity Stones To tie the mcu universe together The Guardians of Galaxy were inherent Only two Captain America and Thor through them interacting with stones and it is ultimately these stones which allow so many superheroes to be brought together organically in Infinity wars due to almost every hero in one way or another having interacted with at least one stone Saga has had nothing tying any of the stories together And to the multiverse could have served as a really good example of that tying characters together with Something involving the multiverse but however they just haven't done anything with the multiverse that means anything or leads into anything with the main villain now gone there is no villain that was being led up to What needed to have been done was kang needed to have been involved in more movies he needed to have been pulling the strings of different villains or the plot involves one of his variants in some way Which would tie more and more characters to him which you would have made him more impactful and naturally lead to the next Avengers film the fact that his character can be plucked out and completely replaced shows how poorly they built him up Imagine if they had tried to do the same thing to Thanos right before the Infinity saga and had replaced Thanos With any other villain After he had already been hyped up in so many movies
Holy shit, I absolutely love how you did this with kang. It would easily explain why the multiverse starts to happen. Damn, I really did enjoy Johnathon majors Kang and it was the only thing that kept me interested in the MCU. I do believe Dr. Doom is a bigger bad that Kang. But I also feel like he needed time to build up before establishing the next avengers movie.
Yeah, the way I'd have done it would have been to seed Kang throughout the Phase 4 movies as cameos of him attempting to break into the timeline, or scout, before emerging fully in Avengers: the Kang Dynasty. The plot of my Kang Dynasty would be that Kang has travelled back in time to a point after the Infinity Stones were destroyed, as their influence is lessened and makes the timeline more malleable and open to manipulation. He is here because in his time, scientists detected ripples emanating from a cataclysmic event which occurs at some point in the far future - an event so devastating that it is ripping the fabric of reality apart, and the destruction is travelling backwards through time, and affecting every timeline, every reality, and it is only a matter of time before it destroys everything. He has sought to buy himself more time to stop it, and have some of the greatest minds in history work on it (Banner, Richards, Doom, T'Challa, McCoy, Pym, Shuri, Amadeus/Helen Cho, Selvig, Sterns, Strange...). Things take too long for Kang's liking and he decides to summon his armada and invade to speed the process along, bringing him into conflict with the Avengers and being defeated, then imprisoned (later freed by some Kang variants, as they have discovered another point in time he could go - ancient Egypt). Avengers 6, I would have as the lull between Kang Dynasty and Secret Wars, and focus on a team of Dark Avengers, assembled by the UN and basically being a blend of the Dark Avengers, Masters of Evil, and Thunderbolts, mirroring the original Avengers: Abomination, White Widow, Bullseye, Iron Patriot (Justin Hammer), Ares (or Hercules - either works), US Agent. Premise may mirror Civil War a bit much, though, in which case the backup plan would be Avengers vs the Squadron Supreme (Hyperion, Zarda, Amphibian, Speed Demon, Dr Spectrum, Nighthawk, Skrullian Skymaster). I just want a team vs team fight xD Avengers: Secret Wars would be split into two - the ripples Kang spoke of are being felt in present day now, but it's been discovered that the source of the devastation comes from somewhere outside the universe. Somewhere...beyond. Strange or someone else mystical (perhaps Doctor Voodoo or Doom, if Strange is no longer around - perhaps coupled with Molecule Man) manages to cause the Beyonder to manifest, and anchors him in reality, in hopes of stopping him one way or another. Big fight ensues, and Doom realises, or reasons, that the Beyonders' unravelling of reality cannot be stopped, so with the help of Strange/Voodoo and Molecule Man, steals the Beyonder's power and uses it to rewrite reality in order to salvage what remains into Battleworld. Avengers: Doomworld would just be an adaptation of Secret Wars, with God Emperor Doom as the final boss. The MCU can essentially be rebooted with new actors at this point if they wanted.
I love Kang and find him a fascinating villain. He should've been the connecting thread of Phase Four and part or Five, but not introduce him as the "next Thanos" straight out. I still think RDJ as Doom and dropping Kang feels like the most desperate move Marvel has ever made. I'm so incredibly let down by it
This is part of the same problem I have with the Star Wars sequel trilogy. Instead of seeing how the world was after the defeat of the Empire, how society was being rebuilt, etc. we instantly jump right into…well, basically the same exact conflict of the original trilogy happening all over again.
7:50 This is what happened. The Avengers were so desperate to stop Thanos that they messed up with time traveling and Loki escaped and got captured by the TVA. Then Silvi killed He Who Remains which she couldn't've done without the help of Loki.
Jonathan Majors should have only been with Marvel actors and A list people who can handle themselves with class. He was on another level and he chose to be with a woman, beneath himself who destroyed his life being sloppy drunk. A selfish lush killed his career. Shame on him.
Also, they should've introduced the Fantastic 4 earlier so they can be the focus of the MCU and introduce Doctor Doom. And when Kang eventually becomes an Avengers level threat, they could've used Doom to beat Kang which will lead up to Secret Wars.
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO! END THE SAGA WITH KANG! NOT WITH DOOM! KANG DESERVES THE MAIN FOCUS! I DON'T CARE IF DOOM IS MORE FAMOUS THAN HIM! WAS THANOS, IN INFINITY WAR, DEFEATED BY ANOTHER CHARACTER WHO BECAME THE VILLAIN OF ENDGAME???
I made a video about this as well and i basically said they should’ve just recast him using the multiverse to find a variant that doesn’t look like john majors, as we’ve see in no way home that the variants of a character don’t have to look like the mcu actor, but NO lets scrap all that shit and bring back RDJ
While I haven't seen it, I have read and seen summaries of Quantumania. I agree with most that Kang should have won to elevate his threat. I also agree that they should have had more than one actor playing Kang. Basically, have Antman and company _seem_ to win, then as they arrive in back in the real world, multiple Kang variants show up and swiftly and brutally murder nearly all of them. Scott, Hank, Janet, and Hope. They then look at Cassie, who is only able to watch helplessly as they just disappear afterwards. Another idea that occurred to me after Jonathan Majors was outed that would have worked for recasting (and go back to the common thought of casting multiple actors) would be to have had a scene where you have a bunch of Jonathan Majors style Kangs in one place, then they're attacked by thousands of other Kangs, all of whom look like two or three other actors. They obliterate the Jonathan Majors Kangs, then turn on each other. This would be great to set up that not only are there countless multiple variants of Kangs, but the variants themselves are in a constant civil war with each other.
Kang should've been treated like civil war in a way. A consequence strange saw would come about but was the better of the 2 evils. But hey asking for consistent writing in a large scale commercial product is crazy now
Marvel definitely could’ve use some refocus. This was a good idea. My idea was for them to shift focus completely to establish the xmen and fantastic 4. But this is a good idea too. I think marvel was thinking “wow the multiverse has endless possibilities” and so they went trying to create every random story instead of the stories people care about. Agatha doesn’t need a series before the xmen, for example, if you get what I’m saying
This makes sense narratively but from what we know about "the Marvel method" this is not how they write movies. Kevin Feige don't come up with a great over aching story to tie everything together, they actually create multiple scripts and shoot multiple variants of the movie (so leakers can't spoil the whole film) and just jury-rig the final film from the editing bay with Kevin being the final say. The cracks in this method start to show when Disney+ introduces too many plot relevant stories for Kevin to babysit and every writer and showrunner below him start jockeying for position to prove how relevant their piece of the puzzle is.
I still think they should've followed up Thanos with the Masters of Evil. If the good guys can win as a super team surely the bad guys want to try. Plus this way it's a different kind of threat. Baron Zemo gathering a bunch of villains is very different than Thanos. With Kang were just going from purple big bad to another purple big bad
So, the solution was to make Kang an interim villain. He already is one in the current MCU with the pivot to Doctor Doom, but this proposal could have made him a better-executed interim villain.
The fact that Kang was a bigger threat than Thanos wasn't the problem with Kang. Most forms of long running, action based media deal with ridiculous escalation one way or the other (that's okay, it's a superhero franchise, we can deal with the idea of a bigger bad than purple space man). The issue was with how Ant-man Quantumania treated him as such a non-threat.
It should have never been kang(unpopular opinion) It was always set up for doctor doom. He is the ultimate villain in any marvel multiversel threat. He is the fantastic 4s number one enemy. Kang was alright but just a distraction,it was always doom, All roads lead to Doom.
Doom and kang are the same but ofc you don't know that doom and kang are different variants of each other so if all roads lead to doom all roads should also lead to kang.
I really did see his potential, I hope we can see him shine in avengers 5. They should make kang work with doom and doom betrays him later in the story
Do, it would sideline Kang, which is not fair. I'm sick of all these comments saying that Doom should've taken his place at the end. That didn't happen with Thanos. Kang doesn't deserve to be the secondary villain, he deserves to be the MAIN villain. Why couldn't you wait for Doom to show up later?
They were lucky to have the infinity stones, it guided them into building up a big bad. But now they dont have such an easy guide and it seems like they just cant work it out themselves.
Missing the point. Kang didn't work because the quality of disney products on the whole were terrible at the time, and may continue to be. They had a good basis but ruined it in execution just as they ruined other products. They just used the actor's troubles as a scapegoat to reset their universe. An interview from a year ago between Feige and Jon Favreau suggests that Robert Downey playing Doom was potentially in play for quite some time.
If Quantumania were basically an Avengers movie - like Civil War basically was - we wouldn't be here complaining. I mean, writing, pacing, boring set pieces, and bad CGI were more relevant problems, but still. Plus he should've just escaped with Time Travel. Rather than die and involve us with some kind of Multiverse.
Kang was never gonna make it. They barely had in him anything only in loki and antman. only way kang would work if there was post credits like thanos they dropped like a bunch of movies and shows before they brought up kang.
I feel like I'm the only person who thinks Scott being able to take Kang 1v1 is perfectly fine. One Avenger being able to beat one villain is nothing new, and said Avenger using their friends to help bring down all the villain's allies/machines, even if completely outnumbered, is still nothing new. To me, none of what happened regarding Kang's defeat does anything to devalue the true threat that is Kang the Conqueror, because the real threat was never the one guy. It's the entire collective of them. Kang in Ant Man 3 is just one guy who went rogue from his organization, and even when trapped in the middle of nowhere and cut off from all contact and resources, was able to create his own little empire in his own little corner of the world. And that's extremely impressive and scary. But ultimately, he was a broken cog that was pruned from the real threat: an empire of people who are just as smart, powerful, and tech-savvy as Kang was, except all working together and with their eyes on one goal. And it's frustrating because both Kang in this movie and He Who Remains did a really good job at hammering home the fact that they are both just tiny parts of a much bigger entity, and stopping them means nothing in the grand scheme of things, because that will just open the doors for the rest of the empire to do what they need to do. Now, granted, I do think they could have handled how they set up Kang specifically a little better. Having him kill off Hank or some of Scott's other allies would have helped a lot. I think the other thing that holds him back is the fact that the story is centered around The Quantum Realm, which we aren't really given a reason to care about. It's just this wasteland where nothing really happens, so it makes the fact that Kang took control of a slice of it feel like not a very impressive accomplishment. I know the Quantum Realm is supposed to be a big part of the Ant-Man story, but I just never really felt like something I cared about. Now, if the crew were instead teleported to another timeline where Kang had taken over America or a major city or something, that's a threat that hits closer to home and helps establish Kang as a more credible boss. Imagine a timeline where a Kang rose to power following The Snap and basically took control of everything, and killed off The Avengers who tried to stop him, so The Snap could never be undone, and he just ruled what was left. That establishes Kang The Conqueror as a legitimate threat, and we get to see a new story about The Snap that we normally wouldn't get to see. Also, you can still keep all of Janet's memories and interactions with Kang in the Quantum Realm intact. Say she met him there, learned who he was, and she ran from him before he finished his plan to escape, just like the original movie, except you have him find a way to escape anyway. You establish him as a still more powerful force by having him discover a way to escape The Quantum Realm on his own without Janet's help, and then find himself in a new post-Snap timeline where he takes over.
Ant-Man being able to kinda compete with a weakened Kang makes all the sense. But these “fans” will say Kang was at Full Power when he loses to Ant-Man LOL
I was hoping for a recast and for a Doom introduction, not Doom just replacing him. I don’t understand why if Disney fired Jonathan Majors even if his contract states that only he can play Kang, would that contract not be null and void now that he’s fired? But in the end, I think they’re planning on using the end of Loki season 2 as a way of eliminating the Council of Kangs, such as Loki has the reins of the multiverse and therefore any version of He Who Remains are imprisoned. I now feel that Doomsday is going to be Doom’s first full film with F4 having him as maybe a cameo. And have Doomsday be the first movie to set up Doom and that this story is going to go into a Phase 7. I think their “soft reboot” is going to end up being Battleworld… maybe if they do it right, they could actually END the MCU on a high note.
While I agree that Marvel kinda dropped the ball after Endgame with a lot of the writing for Kang and this whole multiverse shit, I’d say it’s a bit too early to start judging the future of the MCU with the upcoming Doom saga or whatever. RDJ as Doom is definitely questionable, but I’m gonna foolishly decide to be optimistic about the whole thing. Maybe he’ll be playing some kind of Doom/Iron Man variant, and then we’ll get a real, main Doom sometime during Doomsday or maybe for Secret Wars. It looks like those two films are gonna be similar to Infinity War and Endgame, being a part 1 and part 2
@@kianakaslana7240 it means he’s guilty enough for literal randoms to be able to keep living their life instead of worrying about the possibilities of alternate realities some random actor. You do you though, imma go do something
@joshcoates9728 he was guilty for pushing her....after she hit him first while digging her fingers in his skin (fave & arm)....btw, uhm...that "avoided jail time" narrative is also false...why would you go to jail for a misdemeanor & first offense at that??? Just to let you know... the prosecution didn't ask for any jail time..not that it would've been likely anyways.
To me they fumble this from the START, the introduction of who that remains was weak as hell, and from the first appearance was established how EASY was to kill Kang or a variant of him, didn't help when they finally introduce the supposed more dangerous version of Kang, Kang the conqueror, was beat by the ANTMAN FAMILY.......literally the weakest in the avenger line up, no matter how much the guy say he kill Thor if he can't even beat giant ants.......your version sounds a lot better (again even fans have already better versions of this story) and yours is very logical, I would have loved this if was the story...........but to be honest the first fumble is KANG HIMSELF......no matter how important he is for Avengers comics history, Kang was always an obscure villain, many got introduce to him for the first time in Avengers Earth's Mightiest heroes to be honest, in the great pantheon of marvel villains, there are a LOT MORE INTERESTING ones that should have been the next Thanos in a more organic way..........I think actually DOOM is perfect, but they should have start with him from the START, now will feel rush as hell and in 2 movies he will be gone.........worst, it might not even be Victor Von Doom and just be a variant of Tony Stark in my opinion the worst idea they had in a long time.......I just hope we finish this Multiverse saga after secret wars and that be the last time this multiverse crap be touch, if they do a phase 6 or a reboot, I want they go back to build up the story and that an Avenger film be the closer of the season advancing the story as they did with the Infinity saga.
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kang shouldn't have lost in ant man
Should have escaped and they should have not let one actor play all the variants
Cos what if he died in real life like black panther
Yeah and they should have killed Scott to add the stakes and show how dangerous Kang is. But corporate gotta corporate i guess
Should’ve killed antman
Guess what? He originally was gonna win. Around July 2022, a leak of Quantumania was shared around Reddit. Looking back, it was a completely accurate summary of the movie...until the climax.
Instead of a deus ex machina portal, the Ant-Fam (another abandoned concept) had the same Quantum Tunnel wristwatches from Endgame. Their devices are fixed and they go back to Earth, but Scott is left behind and Kang proceeds to beat the shit out of him ala Thanos to Tony in Infinity War.
Hope goes back for Scott, but is is what Kang wanted. He steals her gadget and escapes, leaving Scott and Hope stranded.
Hank and Janet would promise Cassie that they would get her dad and their daughter back. The movie would end with everyone terrified that Kang is now free. In fact, the mid-credit scene would have been Cassie on her computer witnessing history be deleted and rewritten.
They canned this in favour of a joke about Scott's old boss being bad at baking.
Now the writers were told to say that the original ending was scrapped because it was too similar to the end of Ant-Man and the Wasp. In reality, it was because Feige was salty that the movie's plot got leaked.
Doctor Doom has lost to Squirrel girl before
Kang should have killed Antman or Thor in order to establish him as a real threat
Or AT LEAST lock Ant-Man in Quantum Realm
But we could keep Ant-Man only to be a twist in a later film that he was a variant, adding more of impending danger of incursions
Yeah, or at least getting a double knocked out, as Ant man had to sacrifice his life to kill Kang. " I don't have to win, we just BOTH have to lose" line would have gone so hard with this. This would have been a memorable and bitter sweet heroic ending of Ant man. This could have been a sacrifice that goes almost hard as Iron man's sacrifice
Or better yet, the thing that Kang got shrunk down into could've easily been something he wanted in order to gain power beyond imagination. What if when he got shrunk, it sent him to a realm below even the quantum realm, like the beyond realm?? And he knew this, so Ant Man thinks they won (but still questions at the end) cause in actuality they made their situation 1000x worse
@@jarrettmaynard6306 , i thought the exact same thing. he couldve been shrunk down to the Beyond realm and become a nerfed up version of the Beyonder who can time travel without needing a machine. he could appear in Doomsday and help Doom but in Secret Wars Kang betrays him.
How I would Save Kang in the MCU
Ant-Man and The Wasp Quantumania:
1. Kang kills Hank Pym
2. Defeats and traps Scott Lang & Hope van Dyne inside the quantum realm
3. Tells Janet van Dyne and Cassie Lang that he will burn their timeline last after he escapes the quantum realm.
4. In the post credits scene Kang starts the multiversal war by attacking the council of Kangs.
Genius
very cool, but this isn't really how marvel could have SAVED kang; it's more what they should have done from the start. still cool tho
Also, half the video being dedicated to recapping seems kinda unessecary
I had a similar idea. Phase 4, keep it grounded focus on the fallout of Endgame and slowly build up the multiverse. Phase 4 concludes with the Avengers: Secret Invasion which can be a result of the snap. Phase 5, Kang is a threat and the multiverse is unleashed, the heroes defeat Kang only to learn they created him. Concludes the Phase 5 with Avengers: The Kang Dynasty and the multiverse war begins. Phase 6 you finally introduce Doctor Doom and The Beyonder or Beyonders (take your pic) and everything concludes with a two part epic. Avengers: Time Runs Out and Avengers: Secret Wars. Your video is absolute peak my friend.
I think that was always the plan. To slowly introduce the multiverse. If you look at the original slate for phase 4 back in 2019…. It looked really good. It looked like they were trying to slowly introduce the multiverse. The reason why it was kind of rushed because of Covid and then they shuffled a lot of projects
@@kadencastro8168 I think they were doing a decent job in the first few films/series after Endgame, with the Falcon, WandaVision and Loki all doing a decent job of showing the aftermath of what was going on after the Blip, for different characters and people.
Then both Spider-Man movies and Shang-Chi either utilized the multiverse (Spider-Man) or hinted at Kang (the Beacon from the Ten Rings)..but then....the shitshow and random movie the Eternals came out, and suddenly the writing went downhill with Doctor Strange, Thor and Wakanda Forever feeling clunky and off.
@@hiphipjorge5755 I mean… it’s find to have random movies because not everything has to hint the multiverse or Kang. I don’t think eternal is random because they’re pretty important in the comics. The MCU wanted to do something different and unique. Especially phase 4 was all about introduction and reintroduction. My opinion I did enjoy eternals, Doctor Strange 2, and wakanda forever. I will say some of the ideas from eternals and doctor strange 2 could’ve been better. Thor 4 I have a mix feelings for but it was a waste of potential. Could’ve been the best Thor movie if the writing was better.
The "multiverse" is getting tired already
@@deadlynightshade4108 disagree
Kang was a fubble, but he was no where near the biggest humble for Hollywood in a century. That title easily goes to the DC cinematic universe or the Star Wars sequel trilogy.
Fumble
Fubble humble
The DCEU and the Star Wars sequels.
100%
He said the fumble of the decade. DCEU & Star Wars sequels are fumbles of the previous decade...
Jonathan didn't do shit to deserve to lose out on playing Kang. Plain and simple.
It really sucks man was really looking forward to Kang Dynasty
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GOAT FRL
Love your post Endgame Phase 4-5 pitch
yeah honestly Deadpool 3 make things more complicated
Rumors has it that they are done with Kang and he won't be mentioned again. I hope they at least acknowledge him in Doomsday, maybe have Doom mention killing off the council off-screen. I would also like to see Doom wipe out the TVA to give that plot point a proper conclusion.
Ojalá también mencionan que los anillos de shang chi y los brazaletes de khamala fueron creados por el consejo de kangs
uh well, just rewatch Loki Ss2 and you'll see that the TVA have effectively dealt with Kang OFFSCREEN ALREADY. They have completely wiped him off the map at this point, I doubt they would even bother to mention him anymore
I hope someone eradicates the TVA. I saw loki season 2. I know he is already doing there job for him. The only thing they have left is for each captain or officer to become the petty tyrant of their own handful of worlds.
Having them killed by Doom is not a proper conclusion at all! The Quantumania post credit was clearly setting them up as big bads. This would be disappointing beyond any level.
This pretty much hits the nail on the head.
Part of why a lot of the Post-Endgame MCU doesn't work (besides many of its stories just being mediocre, or straight bad writing wise overall), is it never felt like it had a real purpose. Most of the individual stories were very disconnected from each other, and it made the idea that all these characters share the same universe even harder to believe than it already was.
Look at Phases 1-3. They definitely were not perfect all throughout... but they had clear objectives. Phase 1, set up the general universe, and then established Thanos as the big overall threat by the end. Phase 2, establish and build-up the Infinity Stones. And then of course, Phase 3. Shows the Avengers slowly drifting apart, but at the worst time. Since Thanos pulls up and... you know. Thus by the end, the Avengers finally all come together again, and take Thanos down. A complete story basically.
Phase 4 feels like it wanted to play all the cards in its hands immediately, instead of slowly building up Kang or anyone else as a Thanos level threat like they should've been.
Like... what do the Eternals, Ms Marvel, Moon Knight, and even Spider-Man have to do with Kang and each other now? Something something multiverse...? As you said, instead of rushing into multiverse stuff for the easy fanservice, they should've started small with focusing on the Post-Thanos Snap fallout... Though that plot thread basically got treated like a joke immediately... thanks to Far From Home. (Will never understand why that's a Phase 3 movie lol. Endgame should've ended Phase 3. And then Far From Home could've been a perfect start to Phase 4 if it leaned into that plot thread more. Blah.)
Then after that, slowly show the Avengers noticing things being wrong timeline wise, as a direct consequence to their time travelling to stop Thanos. Kang comes onto the scene, and have Kang Dynasty as a finisher to Phase 4. Yeah, maybe debut him in smaller appearances first. But give him actually significant appearances in the main films, and don't have him die to freaking ants or a knife lol. Like say... hm idk... an Avengers film? Will never understand how Phase 4 didn't end with an Avengers movie... its why the current Avengers team basically feels non-existent. Besides the many other reasons. We don't even know whose technically an Avenger or not anymore lol.
Then by the end of that film... instead of the Avengers immediately punking Kang, making him seem like he'll eventually go down like Thanos... give him the win in that movie. Which then unleashes the multiverse, and puts it under control of a TVA-like organization. Giving the rest of the saga a sense of dread. But... in a post credit scene, tease Dr Doom rising up as a threat as well. So throughout Phase 5, the Avengers are working to take things back from Kang, sure. But also, Dr Doom is slowly becoming a menace in his own right. Maybe just terrorizing the Fantastic 4 at first... but then quickly expanding his ambitions greatly.
So then what can the Phase 5 Avengers movie be? Doomsday. Because the Avengers will fail to defeat Kang again... but this time DOOM steps up, and actually gets it done. Which singlehandedly allows him to take over the multiverse. Merging it all together to form Battleworld, and becoming its sole ruler. But show that few people actually want to challenge Doom... because he IS the one who beat Kang. Making him this false savior type character like Thanos, but on a greater scale. Since many people will see him as the rightful ruler of this new world, when the Avengers know dang well he isn't worthy.
So what does that lead into? Phase 6. The Avengers movie is, of course, Secret Wars. Which basically amounts to a giant Team Avengers vs Team Dr Doom war. Dethroning Doom, and finally undoing the damage done since all this began. The multiverse is now in full effect like Marvel wants so bad, Doom and Kang are naturally built up as recurring threats throughout all the Multiverse Saga phases. Would be perfection.
After that... shoooot idk. Would probably go into a "Cosmic Saga" with Galactus. Maybe all the Battleworld shenanigans attracted him to the Avengers. So now they gotta deal with t h a t madness. But that's pretty much it. After that, reboot mfs lol. Stakes can't get much higher.
Bro COOKED
This was 1000% better than what the video said lol
As much as I'm intrigued by RDJs role as Doom, recasting Kang would've been the better choice. Teasing Victor for Secret Wars would've set him up to be the next big bad
should have just recast him
Oh definitely
But not enough people had interest in him. Also Ant Man 3 which shows us Kang the Concur flopped. So changing villains was smart
It wasn't at all smart it was the easy way to escape the mess they created just another marvel cheap tactic to make people have good faith in them again instead of looking at the mess they have done stick to there guts start over by recasting someone else to continue to play Kang but they didn't because they are lazy as fuck and keep looking for the easiest of ways to make a profit at this point I wouldn't be surprised if they ended up ruining doom's reputation like how they did both Kang and Ultron and then this will be the final straw nobody will give a shit about the MCU after that@@rayanvij3457
@@rayanvij3457 but it does show the mcu's severe lack of planning and integrity. If they had mapped out the entirety of kang's character arc for the next few films, they would've stood by it. They would've recasted him and done a soft retcon (the way they have handled other characters in the past) because the films would've revolved around him and his worldbuilding. Them replacing him with doom and booting his character out of the story only emphasizes how poorly they thought this phase out because their next move is, as you said, purely done out of the desire to attract a wider audience.
Didn't help that in the contract only Johnathan Majors could play as Kang, so for those who say they could've just recast him... they couldn't. With all that happening, sadly legal issues and risk of bad PR around the actor was too much of a problem so we got to here. I hope that contract will expire so we can try again with Kang.
This is made up.
Why would they contract that? Especially with variants being a thing, it sounds incredibly narrow to put that restriction
@@fgvcosmic6752 Got me on that, but probably could be either Johnathan Majors didn't want his character to be recasted so that only HE can play Kang. Or it was just of means to save money and production trouble, since there was controversy around Terrance Howard being fired and replaced with Don Cheadle. Don didn't do anything wrong, but Ike Perlmutter was the problem.
Either way, it didn't help they didn't plan for this in hindsight if anything were to happen.
Kang is top 5 Marvel villain in the comics!
Too bad not in the movie.
Just realised this as I was watching: The CW Flash show did exactly what you're talking about in the beginning.
At the end of S1, Barry goes back in time to save his mother but fails, however this causes a black hole to open up in his city. In S2 we find out he's able to close the black hole but turns out it was actually a multiversal gateway and and the villain Zoom finds Barry's universe because of it. So the big bad of S2 exists only because Barry went to the night his mother died.
Then at the end of S2, he goes back in time to actually save his mother this time and creates Flashpoint. He allows his mother to die again, erasing Flashpoint but forever changing the timeline. A new villain Alchemy arises and he's giving people the powers they had in Flashpoint but don't have in the main timeline. Alchemy is revealed to be working for Savitar, a time remnant Barry created to defeat Zoom back in S3.
So basically S2 and 3's villains could have been avoided if only Barry had not gone back in time in S1.
It's pretty crazy that a "bad" show like that managed to get that right but the MCU couldn't.
Yeah that's why i said the first 3 seasons of the flash were peak
My favorite Marvel villain. Just salty at the fact that I may never see a live action comic book accurate version of Kang The Conquerer.😞😠😡
Finally someone else who feels off about avengers 5 being renamed to Doomsday without any connection or build up
Crazy to think characters like Maria Hill (specifically), Queen Ramonda (?), and Aunt May all pointlessly die albeit not having a lot of gravity with their presence in future stories. Although, Hank Pym survives pointlessly in Quantumania, albeit delivering some good lines and kicking butt, though, his death definitely would've been weighty to establish Kang isn't d*cking around, and could solidify Scott and Hope's characters. .(despite Evangeline Lily 'leaving acting' soon after).
Marvel should at least finish Kang’s story through What If and yet they’d rather pretend he never existed
Honestly I feel like it's going to really hurt a lot of people's investment in the MCU a lot of people only watched Ant-man And Loki To stay on top of the story and follow who the next big bad will be
only for the story to completely abandoned its own story And completely changed course after suckering people into watching two now completely irrelevant stories
@@yami122not to mention because of this decision, Doctor Doom *WILL* be ruined. There’s not enough time to build him up. And all these other projects aside from Fantastic Four and Avengers Doomsday and Secret Wars won’t even feature Doctor Doom. What’s even the point of bringing in Doctor Doom if there’s not going to be any proper build-up for him? They should’ve just recast Kang.
@@The_Protectors_Universe I completely agree
honestly I feel any Avengers film should use a villain who's already been established
age of Ultron really suffered from having Ultron only last a single film with no buildup a character infamous in their comics for how hard it is to get rid of And yet he's disposed of in a single movie
And it appears they're going to do the same with Dr Doom of introduce him in the same movie he dies in
And Kang the conqueror We'll now have an extremely disjointed and ruined storyline involving him where his entire existence in the MCU will then build up to a Council of Kings that never will amount to anything
olives came to conquer was able to do was hype up the threat of his variants yet that's going to amount to nothing no Council of Kangs no multiversal war
honestly it makes it actually kind of silly The way supposedly an entire organization needed to be built to stop this Council from destroying the multi papers yet with almost no effort apparently kang the conqueror and all his variants were able to be disposed of off screen
Imagine it Infinity War Started With some villain other than Thanos Announcing that they had killed Thanos off screen and then they end up being the Villain of the movie with Thanos amounting to nothing
And what really sucked is it basically means that that whole character of gang the conqueror is never going to get a good use in the MCU it's worse now than if they had never used him at all because if they hadn't used him yet they could have used him in the future now the character is just kind of wasted
And there's not that many MCU villains that they can use as Avenger level threat that are on par with Thanos
most villains are either to week or way too powerful to the point where they're probably never gonna be able to be in the MCU at all
Basically they act in same way as they handled Blade movies. They only started to acknowledge they existed with their stupid idea of reboot.
@@yami122 yeah if you tell people to get invested in character, then due to your incompetence you butcher them, then blame it on actor (to my memory Marvel was thinking of dropping Majors because Quantumania flopped ... as if this was his fault .. like how ? I thought that movie sucked based on writing and directing, none of which are actor's job) and then under finding any excuse to get rid of actor you just pretend that story didn't existed .. you basically spit on dedicated fan's face. I know. They did same to Blade fans for decades. They let IP be ruined by Goyer's incompetence + malice, blamed it on Snipes and pretended there is no topic to have.
I've been saying forever now that Kang shoudl've been the antagonist to an avengers movie that wasn't an Endgame level movie, but instead a step in the direction so we see the new roster before secret wars and all. Spot on at 9:22
I would have liked Kang to get his Avengers film just as Doom is being introduced. Then make Secret Wars a 2 part with Doom in both, and of course you can have lots of cameos, credit scenes, and parts of shows further flesh out Doom. Hell, Kang plays the Loki to Doom’s Thanos- maybe even stands in for Molecule Man.
No. Kang is as worthy as Thanos. Doom could've easily had his own saga later.
@@adamherrick6077 So you are basically saying that Kang should've been Doom's pawn? What a terrible idea. Kang is no one's pawn!
I hate how Kang was tossed to the side
Best visual media multiverse story that I remember being told was "fringe". Damn so well told.
I usually don't like multiverse stories but Fringe was something special and also had a proper ending.
Agree . Fringe very underated tv series that deserves so much recognition then the multiverse of marvel!!!
After watching deadpool 3, there is a quick jab at the multiverse/time travel narrative. The jab just being that the TVA doesn't matter and DP bringing in characters from different multiverses doesn't really matter any more. Disney is going to just sweep this storyline under the rug because as a business they would rather do that than to either own up to their mistake or try to take a chance at some creative writing.
Damn right. I didn’t realise this until some review pointed it out but Deadpool and Wolverine contradicted the already convoluted rules of the Multiverse Saga.
Multiverse of Madness establishes that a being from outside their home dimension entering another will cause an Incursion. The longer they stay there, the more liable they are of causing Doomsday for the world they've intruded on. That was why the Illuminati wanted Strange to leave immediately.
Deadpool and Wolverine brings up the concept of Anchor beings. If an Anchor dies, Doomsday is around the corner. Logan was the Anchor of Deadpool's world, so he just says "Fine, I'll find another Logan".
The movie ends with Wolverine and X-23 living with Deadpool.
So, Deadpool's world has a new Anchor but an Incursion's about to happen.
The funniest part is, though, that despite everything I've said, this doesn't bother me.
Marvel used Deadpool to openly admit that the Multiverse wasn't working.
That’s also a classic move in the books too. There was this one time they turned Wolverine into a savage animal looking, feral thing. It was a weird idea. Everyone hated it so much they changed him back and swept it under the rug. As you said, That’s probably gonna be the case with Kang too.
Deadpool was right. The multiverse failed the second the MCU fired Jonathan majors and threw Kang out like trash!
I always thought Annihilus should have been the next villain after Thanos instead of Kang. The Annihilation story was great and would have worked well post Infinity Saga. It also would have been a great way to introduce the Nova Corps (or at least a multiverse version similar to the ones in the comics). I mean if I remember correctly Thanos and Annihilus even fought each other in the comics. That would have been amazing in the MCU.
i hope justice comes for this character. his story is so amazing. only myself to conquer comic could be made into an amazing disney plus series
I thought that in Season 2 of Loki, they were setting up OB to replace Kang. Loki literally gives a variant of him the TVA Handbook, and he invents multiversal travel. He loses his wife in trying to help Loki, and Loki just ends up abandoning him. It’s the perfect setup. A shame they didn’t go that way.
How do you lose to ANTMAN of all people 😭🙏
Convenient Mcguffin
In my opinion, Kang is probably the EASIET character they could've recasted. I mean Loki, Spider-man No Way Home, and (SPOILER ALERT) Deadpool & Wolverine established that not all variants look the same, so they could pick a new actor as a different Kang variant
I had assumed after Endgame that the time travelling technology wouldve been sealed away by Bruce (which he shouldve since he got a lecture from the Ancient One) and eventually in the distant future, Nathaniel discovers the technology and plays with it because he's bored. I really thought that was the most logical route for the MCU but here we are :3 Excited for RDJs Doom tho and I'd probably lower my expectations on the upcoming multiversal films.
Kang must finish the multiverse saga, he started and ended many times, thus makes the Loki tv show just a waste of time, and Loki s1 and s2 were aswome, this is a desperate commercial move, instead of a creative move, after this im not interested in marvel anymore 😢😢
Didn’t his character end in season 2? They explicitly say that he who remains plan failed, and that kang variants are handled by the TVA. They gave closure to the 2 main Kangs, the council is the only one left.
As much as I’m excited to see the arrival of Dr Doom
It just feels like all the build up they did for Kang in Loki season 1 and 2
Shang-Chi
The mid-credit scene in Quantumania
All that was for nothing
And just a waste of time
It just feels like they’re changing course a little too late at this point in the saga
We’re 2 years away from avengers 5 and 6
Like how are they gonna set up this new villain in this short time frame?
@@Mr_Death031 didn’t his story end with loki season2? All he who remains plan failed and the TVA can just deal with kang?
I feel like the loki series ended the kang storyline
@@Mr_Death031 I'ma probably one of the few here but, I honestly never liked Kang as a villain. He Who Remains was an interesting villain in Loki, but the scientist variant was extremely annoying. And the fact that he lost in Antman is just sad. Marvel purposefully fumbled this guy over and over again. If Thanos got defeated in Guardians of the Galaxy 1, he would be a joke.
And the concept of Kang himself can be tedious. One of Age of Ultron's flaws was that Ultron kept dying and coming back. Doing that with Kang can go wrong, but eh.
Jonathan Majors got in trouble with the law. so basically unlike DC Marvel was being smart for this have nothing to do with him afterwards, unlike DC who kept Ezra Miller when they should’ve recasted a different actor to be the flash
Okay but the case is more complicated. Majors was charged with UNINTENTIONAL harm .. as in he didn't want to harm her, he harmed her in self-defense. She contradicted her statements several times, was caught on camera being agressive, there were also witnesses telling how she behaved .. I honestly think Marvel just fired him under any excuse, because prior to this case they were already scapegoating entire Quantumania flop on him alone.
They pulled a WB/DC, something wasn't working, so they immediately reacted, and course corrected. Probably without thinking of the consequences.
I don't know if it's been officially announced that Kang's character won't be coming back to the MCU. They could've just recasted him, but if they're not, I don't know how they can salvage the rest of the cinematic universe. I can see how nostalgia and fan service can end up ruining something like devaluing legendary characters in the Star Wars sequels or misdepicting certain characters in the Flash.
But man, Deadpool and Wolverine was damn good movie.
So a character specifically catered around a concept of multiverse, couldn't POSSIBLY just be recast as a different dude??? Like i don't understand it at all. Just cast someone else!!! Its a dam variant!!!!
there is rumours that Jonathan signed a contract saying no one could be recast as another kang variant
1: He very easily could have easily recasted him like with Rhodey, Robert, Thaddeus and a bunch of other MCU characters. They should have done the same thing with T'Charlie instead of just having tech-wizard Shuri take the mantle.
And 2:It didn't work because he's a very famous actor now, and having him play a character who's usually 97% in a TV-looking mask wasn't going to cut it
I Love Kang and Black Panther, I Don’t Want to Lose them
Apart from antman, every appearance of kang was SPOT-ON
Kang in Ant-Man is peak what
@@toyanthaog5109 ik but they really did him dirty at the end. He should've either killed scott, cut off one of his major limbs or have him trapped in the quantum realm permanently. Him being defeated by fucking ant man did no justice to his character
@@allister25287 thats Kang at his weakest lol. Ant-Man (someone who is Hulk level) beating him makes sense
This is the best summary of the MCU's narrative issues that I have ever seen. I never understood why they never built off of the narratives they created; they just abandoned them and moved on. I thought for sure that a lot of the new threats would be responses to what happened in Endgame. Like alien empires or Atlantis shows up to take control because humans don't know what they are doing a created a galactic tragedy, so now it's time for them to take over. And yeah, why is time travel not mentioned with a time traveling villain?! Excellent video!
The should have just recasted Kang 🤷🏻♂️
I agree. Man, I agree, and I have been saying this since last year. I am sorry, but Johnathan Majors didn't make a good Kang anyway, imo. His acting was so underwhelming, with his "best" performance being in Quantum Mania.
But Kang, the character, was a very good villain. And since it's the multiversal saga, they should have just replaced JM, found a BETTER black male actor, and then claim that THAT new Kang was an unknown variant. It would have been an easy fix.
But instead they went with Doom, who deserves to be the big bad in his own phase, not picking up where Kang left off.
That should have stuck with Kang. It could have worked.
@@MissNayNayIt wasnt the acting, it was the script. Antman 3 was bad fym
@@mjolninja9358 It was both.
They should’ve just recasted Kang there was no need to scrap the Kang arc.
Absolutely brilliant take. I’m now convinced this is the path they should’ve taken - perhaps it’d’ve even made it easier to pivot away from Kang
I absolutely agree. I kept waiting for Kang to connect to the Endgame storyline and smaller aspects of each film through phases 4-5 and nothing. Then they had every Kang variant beat by third tier rando characters making him a kind of non-threat.
I have no idea why Feige entrusted the overreaching storytelling to two Rick and Morty writers with little to zero feature film writing experience, either but there it is.
It should have been amazing but hearing what they were planning, I'm glad Kang is on permanent ice. They would not have done him or Majors any justice. It's disappointing, and I blame Feige for not putting his best and most experienced writers on it.
rumor has it for a while, they were looking at strand as a possible recast; i think that would've been a good fit
Jonathan Majors did a brilliant job in phase 5 and was always loyal to Marvel, even after being fired and replaced. Marvel Studios must now do the right thing, listen to fans and rehire Majors: there's room for Doom and Kang in the MCU. And we haven't seen the destruction of the Council of Kangs yet.
Sadly Marvel as usual found a scapegoat for their failures. They were already willing to throw him out for failure of Quantumania .. which was mostly writing mess, not acting mess.
@@cracmar03 I'm pretty sure the production of Quantumania was sabotaged (e.g. reshoots), many people at Marvel did not want that movie and phase 5 to do well.
Ughhh this is perfect and frustrating that we didn’t get something similar.
To be honest, Kang was a terrible choice of a villain given the complex of his time travel and origins and how he is often an Avengers threat and barely a Marvel Comics themed threat. I mean lets be honest Phase 4 was a mess due to higher ups meddling and not having a clear idea of where to go after Endgame. Plus, you cannot do an adaptation of Secret Wars without Dr. Doom Playing some role. To me, this twist to the narrative would be exciting to see and if Kang and his multiple variants pay the price for Doom to rise, then so be it.
For God's sake, how many times do i have to tell you.... COMICS AND MOVIES ARE DIFFERENT. A secret wars movie without Doom would've been fine as long as well written.
Plus, are you seriously saying that just because a villain is complex, he shouldn't be the next Thanos ??? Are you serious???
For me, here's how Kang should have worked. We start with season 2 of Loki which is very different because Loki and Sylvie go to reality 616 where they are arrested by Wong, the latter wonders why they are there and Loki explains to him that their reality will disappear and so Wong will ask them who will do that?
But at the same time we see the quantum kingdom with Kang C who says: one of my variants is dead it is now time for my conquest. Then Quantumania
which takes place the same except that Hank and Janet die in atrocious suttering by Kang. After the same post-credit scene except for Victor Timely that we will have already seen in Loki season 2.
Then we have The Marvels which has a different story where the bad guys are Gravik and Dar-Benn but Gravik survives because he betrays Dar-bernn and then flees the original end that we should have had this to say Monica and Carol who uses their power on Kamala's bracelets and we witness Monica's baptisms in Photon so post-credit
scene a similar but the second we see Wong, Shang-chi, Kamala and Scott discussing the message because they have the same energy signature as Scott when he came out of the quantum kingdom so Scott explains to them that it is necessary Destroy the ten rings and bracelets because it belongs to Kang and Wong wonders who is Kang act Loki told him that this being who can destroy the multiverse is called He Who remains but at the times when Scott says Kang it cuts off to show us another variant of Kang that will be a little Thanos (i.e. he will appear in different post-credit scenes) and will turn out to be Mr. Gryphon. Secret invasion will not exist instead we will have Mss Marvel season 2 with an Easter egg from Sentry because she will search the archives of the AIM and she will make the joke with Superman but after a post credit scene we have Kamala, Scott, Peter who looks at the Avengers tower where the A (the logo) is replaced by Queng industries. and after that happens the same except that in Captain America 4 we have post-credit scene glue Mr gryohon who recovers Vibranium, in Thunderbolts the same except that it’s Adamantium and Armor Wars where Rhodey informs Riri that he gave half of Tony's Mr Gryphon because the technological prowess of Queng industries are great but post credit scene we have Mr gryphon who creates armour and says: you are not ready for what awaits you the Avengers. And there screams are heard from children, women, men and avengers after the helmet disappears then Doctor strange 3 where strange and Cléa return and learn that a being will arrive and will destroy reality but the post-credit scene we see Mr gryphon go to The void for Avengers Kang dynasty where Rama-tut totally eliminates all variants of Loki but also "inhabitants of the void"
I feel the biggest issue of the recent MCU is that it just hasn't been building up to anything nothing of consequences happening in Recent movies or shows
the Infinity Saga had the Infinity Stones To tie the mcu universe together The Guardians of Galaxy were inherent Only two Captain America and Thor through them interacting with stones
and it is ultimately these stones which allow so many superheroes to be brought together organically in Infinity wars due to almost every hero in one way or another having interacted with at least one stone
Saga has had nothing tying any of the stories together And to the multiverse could have served as a really good example of that tying characters together with Something involving the multiverse but however they just haven't done anything with the multiverse that means anything or leads into anything with the main villain now gone there is no villain that was being led up to
What needed to have been done was kang needed to have been involved in more movies he needed to have been pulling the strings of different villains or the plot involves one of his variants in some way Which would tie more and more characters to him which you would have made him more impactful and naturally lead to the next Avengers film
the fact that his character can be plucked out and completely replaced shows how poorly they built him up Imagine if they had tried to do the same thing to Thanos right before the Infinity saga and had replaced Thanos With any other villain After he had already been hyped up in so many movies
Holy shit, I absolutely love how you did this with kang. It would easily explain why the multiverse starts to happen. Damn, I really did enjoy Johnathon majors Kang and it was the only thing that kept me interested in the MCU. I do believe Dr. Doom is a bigger bad that Kang. But I also feel like he needed time to build up before establishing the next avengers movie.
Yeah, the way I'd have done it would have been to seed Kang throughout the Phase 4 movies as cameos of him attempting to break into the timeline, or scout, before emerging fully in Avengers: the Kang Dynasty.
The plot of my Kang Dynasty would be that Kang has travelled back in time to a point after the Infinity Stones were destroyed, as their influence is lessened and makes the timeline more malleable and open to manipulation. He is here because in his time, scientists detected ripples emanating from a cataclysmic event which occurs at some point in the far future - an event so devastating that it is ripping the fabric of reality apart, and the destruction is travelling backwards through time, and affecting every timeline, every reality, and it is only a matter of time before it destroys everything. He has sought to buy himself more time to stop it, and have some of the greatest minds in history work on it (Banner, Richards, Doom, T'Challa, McCoy, Pym, Shuri, Amadeus/Helen Cho, Selvig, Sterns, Strange...). Things take too long for Kang's liking and he decides to summon his armada and invade to speed the process along, bringing him into conflict with the Avengers and being defeated, then imprisoned (later freed by some Kang variants, as they have discovered another point in time he could go - ancient Egypt).
Avengers 6, I would have as the lull between Kang Dynasty and Secret Wars, and focus on a team of Dark Avengers, assembled by the UN and basically being a blend of the Dark Avengers, Masters of Evil, and Thunderbolts, mirroring the original Avengers: Abomination, White Widow, Bullseye, Iron Patriot (Justin Hammer), Ares (or Hercules - either works), US Agent. Premise may mirror Civil War a bit much, though, in which case the backup plan would be Avengers vs the Squadron Supreme (Hyperion, Zarda, Amphibian, Speed Demon, Dr Spectrum, Nighthawk, Skrullian Skymaster). I just want a team vs team fight xD
Avengers: Secret Wars would be split into two - the ripples Kang spoke of are being felt in present day now, but it's been discovered that the source of the devastation comes from somewhere outside the universe. Somewhere...beyond. Strange or someone else mystical (perhaps Doctor Voodoo or Doom, if Strange is no longer around - perhaps coupled with Molecule Man) manages to cause the Beyonder to manifest, and anchors him in reality, in hopes of stopping him one way or another. Big fight ensues, and Doom realises, or reasons, that the Beyonders' unravelling of reality cannot be stopped, so with the help of Strange/Voodoo and Molecule Man, steals the Beyonder's power and uses it to rewrite reality in order to salvage what remains into Battleworld.
Avengers: Doomworld would just be an adaptation of Secret Wars, with God Emperor Doom as the final boss. The MCU can essentially be rebooted with new actors at this point if they wanted.
Again, NO. I get that you like Doom, but having him overthrow Kang would have been terrible. Kang was meant to be the final boss.
you sold me on the multiverse saga in just 10 minutes, something marvel studios couldn’t even do in 20+ projects
I love Kang and find him a fascinating villain. He should've been the connecting thread of Phase Four and part or Five, but not introduce him as the "next Thanos" straight out. I still think RDJ as Doom and dropping Kang feels like the most desperate move Marvel has ever made. I'm so incredibly let down by it
Everything you said make sense
This is part of the same problem I have with the Star Wars sequel trilogy.
Instead of seeing how the world was after the defeat of the Empire, how society was being rebuilt, etc. we instantly jump right into…well, basically the same exact conflict of the original trilogy happening all over again.
7:50 This is what happened. The Avengers were so desperate to stop Thanos that they messed up with time traveling and Loki escaped and got captured by the TVA. Then Silvi killed He Who Remains which she couldn't've done without the help of Loki.
2 avengers movies werent enough imo
8:13 this was the exact concept that should have followed after End Game.
I really wanted to see Kang become the next big villain.
Me too.
Jonathan Majors should have only been with Marvel actors and A list people who can handle themselves with class. He was on another level and he chose to be with a woman, beneath himself who destroyed his life being sloppy drunk. A selfish lush killed his career. Shame on him.
The writing was just terrible in ant man 3…
All antman movies were garbage, he was okay in team-up movies tho
Marvel did right with the ending of Loki S2 & Antman simply because of all the baggage Majors ended up getting into I know Marvel didn’t know
Also, they should've introduced the Fantastic 4 earlier so they can be the focus of the MCU and introduce Doctor Doom. And when Kang eventually becomes an Avengers level threat, they could've used Doom to beat Kang which will lead up to Secret Wars.
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO! END THE SAGA WITH KANG! NOT WITH DOOM! KANG DESERVES THE MAIN FOCUS! I DON'T CARE IF DOOM IS MORE FAMOUS THAN HIM! WAS THANOS, IN INFINITY WAR, DEFEATED BY ANOTHER CHARACTER WHO BECAME THE VILLAIN OF ENDGAME???
Exactly, this is 100% of what I expected to happen..............yet they act like it never happened or no one saw any of it UGH
I made a video about this as well and i basically said they should’ve just recast him using the multiverse to find a variant that doesn’t look like john majors, as we’ve see in no way home that the variants of a character don’t have to look like the mcu actor, but NO lets scrap all that shit and bring back RDJ
While I haven't seen it, I have read and seen summaries of Quantumania. I agree with most that Kang should have won to elevate his threat. I also agree that they should have had more than one actor playing Kang. Basically, have Antman and company _seem_ to win, then as they arrive in back in the real world, multiple Kang variants show up and swiftly and brutally murder nearly all of them. Scott, Hank, Janet, and Hope. They then look at Cassie, who is only able to watch helplessly as they just disappear afterwards.
Another idea that occurred to me after Jonathan Majors was outed that would have worked for recasting (and go back to the common thought of casting multiple actors) would be to have had a scene where you have a bunch of Jonathan Majors style Kangs in one place, then they're attacked by thousands of other Kangs, all of whom look like two or three other actors. They obliterate the Jonathan Majors Kangs, then turn on each other. This would be great to set up that not only are there countless multiple variants of Kangs, but the variants themselves are in a constant civil war with each other.
Are we really blaming Jonathan Majors for defending himself? Lol
He was running for his life! She chased him!
@@verax0436 Exactly, lol.
I thought he was innocent?
@@birdmanfancy9627 He is.
@@birdmanfancy9627he is, Hollywood and Disney did him so dirty just to avoid backlash from people who didn’t look into the case at all
Kang should've been treated like civil war in a way. A consequence strange saw would come about but was the better of the 2 evils. But hey asking for consistent writing in a large scale commercial product is crazy now
Marvel definitely could’ve use some refocus. This was a good idea. My idea was for them to shift focus completely to establish the xmen and fantastic 4. But this is a good idea too. I think marvel was thinking “wow the multiverse has endless possibilities” and so they went trying to create every random story instead of the stories people care about. Agatha doesn’t need a series before the xmen, for example, if you get what I’m saying
This makes sense narratively but from what we know about "the Marvel method" this is not how they write movies. Kevin Feige don't come up with a great over aching story to tie everything together, they actually create multiple scripts and shoot multiple variants of the movie (so leakers can't spoil the whole film) and just jury-rig the final film from the editing bay with Kevin being the final say. The cracks in this method start to show when Disney+ introduces too many plot relevant stories for Kevin to babysit and every writer and showrunner below him start jockeying for position to prove how relevant their piece of the puzzle is.
I still think they should've followed up Thanos with the Masters of Evil. If the good guys can win as a super team surely the bad guys want to try. Plus this way it's a different kind of threat. Baron Zemo gathering a bunch of villains is very different than Thanos. With Kang were just going from purple big bad to another purple big bad
So, the solution was to make Kang an interim villain. He already is one in the current MCU with the pivot to Doctor Doom, but this proposal could have made him a better-executed interim villain.
No. it's not fair. Kang is more than an interim villain.
The fact that Kang was a bigger threat than Thanos wasn't the problem with Kang. Most forms of long running, action based media deal with ridiculous escalation one way or the other (that's okay, it's a superhero franchise, we can deal with the idea of a bigger bad than purple space man). The issue was with how Ant-man Quantumania treated him as such a non-threat.
It should have never been kang(unpopular opinion) It was always set up for doctor doom. He is the ultimate villain in any marvel multiversel threat. He is the fantastic 4s number one enemy. Kang was alright but just a distraction,it was always doom, All roads lead to Doom.
Doom and kang are the same but ofc you don't know that doom and kang are different variants of each other so if all roads lead to doom all roads should also lead to kang.
I really did see his potential, I hope we can see him shine in avengers 5. They should make kang work with doom and doom betrays him later in the story
Do, it would sideline Kang, which is not fair. I'm sick of all these comments saying that Doom should've taken his place at the end. That didn't happen with Thanos. Kang doesn't deserve to be the secondary villain, he deserves to be the MAIN villain. Why couldn't you wait for Doom to show up later?
They were lucky to have the infinity stones, it guided them into building up a big bad. But now they dont have such an easy guide and it seems like they just cant work it out themselves.
Kang was cool in Loki S1. He was crunge everywhere else
Victor Timely was soooo bad
I like your idea
😊so I’m very sad that the kang dynasty is retitled into doomsday, all I wanted is after the kang dynasty it will be doomsday before secret wars😔
Marvel needs to ignore Ant Man 3 bombing, find a new actor in Majors’ place, and keep Kang around.
Missing the point. Kang didn't work because the quality of disney products on the whole were terrible at the time, and may continue to be. They had a good basis but ruined it in execution just as they ruined other products. They just used the actor's troubles as a scapegoat to reset their universe. An interview from a year ago between Feige and Jon Favreau suggests that Robert Downey playing Doom was potentially in play for quite some time.
If Quantumania were basically an Avengers movie - like Civil War basically was - we wouldn't be here complaining.
I mean, writing, pacing, boring set pieces, and bad CGI were more relevant problems, but still.
Plus he should've just escaped with Time Travel. Rather than die and involve us with some kind of Multiverse.
Kang was never gonna make it. They barely had in him anything only in loki and antman. only way kang would work if there was post credits like thanos they dropped like a bunch of movies and shows before they brought up kang.
It's literally the simplest character to recast
RDJ as Dr. Doom is going to be the WORSE.
I feel like I'm the only person who thinks Scott being able to take Kang 1v1 is perfectly fine. One Avenger being able to beat one villain is nothing new, and said Avenger using their friends to help bring down all the villain's allies/machines, even if completely outnumbered, is still nothing new. To me, none of what happened regarding Kang's defeat does anything to devalue the true threat that is Kang the Conqueror, because the real threat was never the one guy. It's the entire collective of them. Kang in Ant Man 3 is just one guy who went rogue from his organization, and even when trapped in the middle of nowhere and cut off from all contact and resources, was able to create his own little empire in his own little corner of the world. And that's extremely impressive and scary. But ultimately, he was a broken cog that was pruned from the real threat: an empire of people who are just as smart, powerful, and tech-savvy as Kang was, except all working together and with their eyes on one goal.
And it's frustrating because both Kang in this movie and He Who Remains did a really good job at hammering home the fact that they are both just tiny parts of a much bigger entity, and stopping them means nothing in the grand scheme of things, because that will just open the doors for the rest of the empire to do what they need to do.
Now, granted, I do think they could have handled how they set up Kang specifically a little better. Having him kill off Hank or some of Scott's other allies would have helped a lot. I think the other thing that holds him back is the fact that the story is centered around The Quantum Realm, which we aren't really given a reason to care about. It's just this wasteland where nothing really happens, so it makes the fact that Kang took control of a slice of it feel like not a very impressive accomplishment. I know the Quantum Realm is supposed to be a big part of the Ant-Man story, but I just never really felt like something I cared about. Now, if the crew were instead teleported to another timeline where Kang had taken over America or a major city or something, that's a threat that hits closer to home and helps establish Kang as a more credible boss. Imagine a timeline where a Kang rose to power following The Snap and basically took control of everything, and killed off The Avengers who tried to stop him, so The Snap could never be undone, and he just ruled what was left. That establishes Kang The Conqueror as a legitimate threat, and we get to see a new story about The Snap that we normally wouldn't get to see. Also, you can still keep all of Janet's memories and interactions with Kang in the Quantum Realm intact. Say she met him there, learned who he was, and she ran from him before he finished his plan to escape, just like the original movie, except you have him find a way to escape anyway. You establish him as a still more powerful force by having him discover a way to escape The Quantum Realm on his own without Janet's help, and then find himself in a new post-Snap timeline where he takes over.
Ant-Man being able to kinda compete with a weakened Kang makes all the sense. But these “fans” will say Kang was at Full Power when he loses to Ant-Man LOL
I was hoping for a recast and for a Doom introduction, not Doom just replacing him.
I don’t understand why if Disney fired Jonathan Majors even if his contract states that only he can play Kang, would that contract not be null and void now that he’s fired?
But in the end, I think they’re planning on using the end of Loki season 2 as a way of eliminating the Council of Kangs, such as Loki has the reins of the multiverse and therefore any version of He Who Remains are imprisoned. I now feel that Doomsday is going to be Doom’s first full film with F4 having him as maybe a cameo. And have Doomsday be the first movie to set up Doom and that this story is going to go into a Phase 7. I think their “soft reboot” is going to end up being Battleworld… maybe if they do it right, they could actually END the MCU on a high note.
Kang is never seen without his mask in the comics. That was the mistake they made in the MCU. Could have just put someone else in the same mask.
While I agree that Marvel kinda dropped the ball after Endgame with a lot of the writing for Kang and this whole multiverse shit, I’d say it’s a bit too early to start judging the future of the MCU with the upcoming Doom saga or whatever. RDJ as Doom is definitely questionable, but I’m gonna foolishly decide to be optimistic about the whole thing. Maybe he’ll be playing some kind of Doom/Iron Man variant, and then we’ll get a real, main Doom sometime during Doomsday or maybe for Secret Wars. It looks like those two films are gonna be similar to Infinity War and Endgame, being a part 1 and part 2
Would be cool if that’s how tchalla died it was a conscience on messing with time.
How hard is it to vet an investment?
What if Kang ends up being behind whatever happens after the Doom arc...
Why do ppl keep blaming majors for what happened when he was proven innocent and clearly innocent
He was found guilty , avoided jail time and sentenced to 52 weeks of a domestic violence rehab course
He was literally found guilty, guy
@@Angel-Otkdoesn't mean he's not innocent
@@kianakaslana7240 it means he’s guilty enough for literal randoms to be able to keep living their life instead of worrying about the possibilities of alternate realities some random actor. You do you though, imma go do something
@joshcoates9728 he was guilty for pushing her....after she hit him first while digging her fingers in his skin (fave & arm)....btw, uhm...that "avoided jail time" narrative is also false...why would you go to jail for a misdemeanor & first offense at that??? Just to let you know... the prosecution didn't ask for any jail time..not that it would've been likely anyways.
You know they should’ve made Tony to be kang, then RDJ can come back to mcu and not be casted as doom!
To me they fumble this from the START, the introduction of who that remains was weak as hell, and from the first appearance was established how EASY was to kill Kang or a variant of him, didn't help when they finally introduce the supposed more dangerous version of Kang, Kang the conqueror, was beat by the ANTMAN FAMILY.......literally the weakest in the avenger line up, no matter how much the guy say he kill Thor if he can't even beat giant ants.......your version sounds a lot better (again even fans have already better versions of this story) and yours is very logical, I would have loved this if was the story...........but to be honest the first fumble is KANG HIMSELF......no matter how important he is for Avengers comics history, Kang was always an obscure villain, many got introduce to him for the first time in Avengers Earth's Mightiest heroes to be honest, in the great pantheon of marvel villains, there are a LOT MORE INTERESTING ones that should have been the next Thanos in a more organic way..........I think actually DOOM is perfect, but they should have start with him from the START, now will feel rush as hell and in 2 movies he will be gone.........worst, it might not even be Victor Von Doom and just be a variant of Tony Stark in my opinion the worst idea they had in a long time.......I just hope we finish this Multiverse saga after secret wars and that be the last time this multiverse crap be touch, if they do a phase 6 or a reboot, I want they go back to build up the story and that an Avenger film be the closer of the season advancing the story as they did with the Infinity saga.
It was going to work
So did kang team up with apocalypse?
By recasting.
this makes me want to watch antman quantamania now lol 💯🐜🐜🐜🐜