I'm curious as to whether anyone has any accurate figures related to the numbers of people who own this game who never played in tournaments, comparable to those who did play in tournaments. Those, like myself, who were never into the tournament scene, were not effected by the multiple changes in the game over the years, as we could play any way we liked. I think there's an unintentional bias in most talk about X-Wing (as well as Armada -- and actually all customizable games: Dice Masters, MTG, etc) assuming that most persons into such games play in tournaments. I'd actually be surprised if that was the case, and imagine a significant number of persons who own these games play casually and have never once played in a tournament.
@@GrumpyGrognardGaming Agreed. In catering to the minority, they're overlooking the majority, and the potential of bringing casual players into the game who otherwise might be intimidated. I do think the effort (albeit too little, too late) to afford an option of pre-set ships for casual gamers who don't always enjoy laboring for hours over building a squad/fleet/deck/team was a good idea, and make a customizable game more appealing to casual players who initially would probably just like to play out of the box. Of course, now that AMG has murdered both X-Wing and Armada, we can forget about that. They just guaranteed that persons who might discover this game at some point in the future will never get into it at all -- and thus make it more difficult (if not impossible) for those of us who still love these games (and only play casually) to find opponents with whom to play it. At least if they continued to sell the product (even if they didn't add to it), new people could get into the game. If it wasn't cost effective, no one who loved the game would blame them for a slight price increase. But cutting off the game completely burned a lot of people, and I will never trust AMG on anything again -- and also be wary of getting into any new, customizable game made by anyone.
@@GrumpyGrognardGaming Which begs one to consider if this has been timed to coincide with the term of the existing contract. There has been significant decrease in activity in the last year and it is going to limp forward for the next then poof... If you were being asked to commit to a royalty contract for rights to Star Wars from 2025+ would you choose to sign it?
1.0 was dead near the end due to cards being locked behind purchasing everything. I started it and dropped out quickly when I realized it was so expensive. If 2.0 had came out a year earlier I would have stuck with it.
It was rather pay to win. I had fun with what i had. Still got a few ships so i can chuck a few dice from time to time. But i sold 90% of my stuff and ALL of the Armada fleets.
2.0 Didn't kill X-Wing. 2.5 and all the changes there killed the game. Players could so meta that environment to such an extent that the game wasn't fun. Not saying that 1E was any better (remember the Echo/Whisper 12 point bid duo?), but 2.5 called it for me.
Fracturing the community between 1.0 and 2.0 was the start of the end. 2.5 sealed the deal for everyone except for the folks who came late and tournament die hards (the people who absolutely needed to have the exclusive prize items). Add in a 2-ish year gap due to the pandemic ( some places were still weird about social distancing in 2022) and the community basically moved on when it was needed most by AMG. Obviously, AMG didn’t engender themselves to the community with 2.5 or the lackadaisical updates and announcements, but why would they continue to develop new pilots/ships or reprint old models when they can’t move those products? 2.0 couldn’t move the plastic and 2.5 abused the good faith of the remaining community. We never even saw the Skipray Blastboat, let alone a Starwing reprint. It’s a damn shame how horribly the game was mismanaged.
@@streetfightinmanrs Where I live this is the reality that I speak of. The transition from 1.0 to 2.0 went fairly smoothly. And, while we did lose players, we gained just as many, being able to buy cheap fleets. The 2.5 changes, along with no support or anything for 2 full years, killed the game. Our area just wanted to dogfight.
DONT REMIND ME. There was one guy who'd always run them. He was a great guy, we got along well, but his lists were just print offs of the latest tourney winning lists.
2.0 killed the game entirely for me. I was asked by the game to pay £200+ just to replace my cardboard components to continue playing the game. That was insane to me.
Yeah I shifted all mine before i moved to Nottingham so... about five years ago. Kept a couple of the models i REALLY liked like the Ghost and that was it.
Thanks for that take, I really enjoyed your style. I was big into 1.0 then two came out and the extra resistance in learning the changes along with some big life changes for me made me drop out of the game. I’m now at a stage where I’ve been burned so many times by this kind of thing that I just won’t play licensed IPs anymore. Yes, MCP looks cool, but it’s only a matter of time before some kind of license shenanigans kill the game and leave people with a lot Of expensive stuff and a very sparse community imho
Thanks! Yes, i imagine that these Licensed IP games will definitely suffer from the drop in investment. Fan support might continue though and 3d printing might take off and carry the games. For me, it's all poisoned though.
Shatterpoint would be my roughly fifth skirmish scale Star Wars game (WEG, WOTC, Imperial Assault and Legion) and I cna't use the figures from the previous ones. Even those from the same corporate group (i.e. FFG/Asmodai).
Yep i have ALL of imperial assault and when i saw Legion was a diff scale i was out. Then when i saw SL was a diff scale again i knew they were just taking the piss. I get it, but it would put loads of people off. that AND the insane price point.
"EX-wing" I've been devouring opinions and coverage of this all weekend and can't believe it's the first time I've seen that joke 😂 Still love the game, we'll see where it goes next!
@@GrumpyGrognardGaming I never played X-Wing or Imperial Assault or any of these expandable games. Endless buying is expensive, an endless rabbit hole. I already have Battletech as my rabbit hole and I cannot afford many rabbit holes. Also I do not have lots of space for boxes. By annoying fans with weird changes they kill consistent sources of revenue. China is challenging Amazon in USA and flooded Europe with EVs. As world situation settles I anticipate that companies will not be able to survive easily. So I suspect they will need to please customers or go down.
The game was very unbalanced and X wing 2.0 was absolutley necessary. The conversion kits were more than fair to keep your collection flying. AMG killed the game.
You know, this kind of makes me tired of miniatures gaming. So many good games over the years had this exact thing happen to them. 40K was my first experience with this. Rogue trader was awesome, 2nd ed was meh, 3rd was just disgusting. Then got into Mutant Chronicles (Warzone). Great system, minis were ok, but by modern standards not so much. Second edition comes around and the player base which was smaller than 40k vanished. After that I got into warmachine, and after three editions the minis are collecting dust. Now X-wing, I enjoyed, 1st edition immensly and the 2nd edition I saw comming due to the overall complexity of all the card combinations. As to the starter sets, I scanned the dials because I needed more of those and figured I can reuse most of the basic pilots should I need to. But still the switch to 2nd killed it in my area. As to casual play, it is nonexistent, there was only competitive play wich is not my prefered play style.
The products are already crazy hard to source, at least here in the UK. I'd say production has probably stopped. Maybe one last run to help people complete collections but I doubt it.
I mean, yes - development would be future releases, production is both future products *and* any existing products, so it's likely to get very hard to find official boxed products going all the way back to the 2.0 Starter and Conversion Kits
If the reason they cite for stopping the development is the high cost of pre-painted miniatures, then continuing production isn't financially viable either.
I agree. Star Wars was a licence to print money, but look at it now. For me it was the power creep and then 2.0 that killed X-Wing. Most upset about Armada.
Nothing was said that was anti-woke. He said that when fans have had legitimate complaints about Disney produced Star Wars, Disney (Lucasfilm in particular) instead of listening objectively to their complaints and trying to improve their product, has a habit of trying to shift blame to the fans by falsely accusing them of being motivated by bigotry and racism.
@@wscrivnerthanks, I couldn't remember saying anything like that, actually checked the vid and I stand by what I say, I'm just appalled by the horrific editing. You can tell I was ill... 😅
My opinion is it's dead ,Jim. Disney has just plain killed the franchise. So sad. In my area even legion, shatterpoint and MCP have all trickled in sales.
Completely agree. I went full stop when 2.0 dropped... as did my gaming funds, but that's a different matter. No way could this casual keep up. So now I'll be selling off my nonessentials and keep the models I love (A-Wings, TIE Bombers, etc). Perfect opportunity for a new X-Wing/Wings of Glory game to appear and fill in the gap.
I dropped out when they introduced 2nd Edition. No reason why people can't play 1st ed though. More offline gamers need to stick to the older editions of whatever rpg, tabletop or card game they might like. Staying up to date is a sales technique that fails (by design?) to improve on rules and game-flow.
Exactly, you always have the old stuff, it doesn't disintigrate when the new editions are released and SOMEONE has probably released fan updates for them.
2:00 Love the cartoon - been there, done that!
It happened VERY quickly. I loved it I really did. It was a shame to sell all my stuff.
I'm curious as to whether anyone has any accurate figures related to the numbers of people who own this game who never played in tournaments, comparable to those who did play in tournaments.
Those, like myself, who were never into the tournament scene, were not effected by the multiple changes in the game over the years, as we could play any way we liked. I think there's an unintentional bias in most talk about X-Wing (as well as Armada -- and actually all customizable games: Dice Masters, MTG, etc) assuming that most persons into such games play in tournaments. I'd actually be surprised if that was the case, and imagine a significant number of persons who own these games play casually and have never once played in a tournament.
I imgaine like GW the number of actual tournament players is in the minority, which is why its so baffling that the companies focus on that side.
@@GrumpyGrognardGaming Agreed. In catering to the minority, they're overlooking the majority, and the potential of bringing casual players into the game who otherwise might be intimidated.
I do think the effort (albeit too little, too late) to afford an option of pre-set ships for casual gamers who don't always enjoy laboring for hours over building a squad/fleet/deck/team was a good idea, and make a customizable game more appealing to casual players who initially would probably just like to play out of the box.
Of course, now that AMG has murdered both X-Wing and Armada, we can forget about that. They just guaranteed that persons who might discover this game at some point in the future will never get into it at all -- and thus make it more difficult (if not impossible) for those of us who still love these games (and only play casually) to find opponents with whom to play it.
At least if they continued to sell the product (even if they didn't add to it), new people could get into the game. If it wasn't cost effective, no one who loved the game would blame them for a slight price increase. But cutting off the game completely burned a lot of people, and I will never trust AMG on anything again -- and also be wary of getting into any new, customizable game made by anyone.
The murder of SW by Disney cannot be overstated. How can you keep paying royalty rights for a game where the IP is in a death spiral.
Sadly these licenses are normally signed for years at a time. Disney's treatment of the IP will devalue future contracts significantly i imagine.
@@GrumpyGrognardGaming Which begs one to consider if this has been timed to coincide with the term of the existing contract. There has been significant decrease in activity in the last year and it is going to limp forward for the next then poof... If you were being asked to commit to a royalty contract for rights to Star Wars from 2025+ would you choose to sign it?
1.0 was dead near the end due to cards being locked behind purchasing everything. I started it and dropped out quickly when I realized it was so expensive. If 2.0 had came out a year earlier I would have stuck with it.
It was rather pay to win. I had fun with what i had. Still got a few ships so i can chuck a few dice from time to time. But i sold 90% of my stuff and ALL of the Armada fleets.
Pretty spot on analysis 👍
Thanks!
2.0 Didn't kill X-Wing. 2.5 and all the changes there killed the game. Players could so meta that environment to such an extent that the game wasn't fun. Not saying that 1E was any better (remember the Echo/Whisper 12 point bid duo?), but 2.5 called it for me.
2.0 definitely killed x-wing just look at what happened to the tournament scene it dropped off the cliff
Fracturing the community between 1.0 and 2.0 was the start of the end. 2.5 sealed the deal for everyone except for the folks who came late and tournament die hards (the people who absolutely needed to have the exclusive prize items). Add in a 2-ish year gap due to the pandemic ( some places were still weird about social distancing in 2022) and the community basically moved on when it was needed most by AMG.
Obviously, AMG didn’t engender themselves to the community with 2.5 or the lackadaisical updates and announcements, but why would they continue to develop new pilots/ships or reprint old models when they can’t move those products? 2.0 couldn’t move the plastic and 2.5 abused the good faith of the remaining community.
We never even saw the Skipray Blastboat, let alone a Starwing reprint. It’s a damn shame how horribly the game was mismanaged.
@@streetfightinmanrs Where I live this is the reality that I speak of. The transition from 1.0 to 2.0 went fairly smoothly. And, while we did lose players, we gained just as many, being able to buy cheap fleets. The 2.5 changes, along with no support or anything for 2 full years, killed the game. Our area just wanted to dogfight.
DONT REMIND ME. There was one guy who'd always run them. He was a great guy, we got along well, but his lists were just print offs of the latest tourney winning lists.
2.0 killed the game entirely for me.
I was asked by the game to pay £200+ just to replace my cardboard components to continue playing the game. That was insane to me.
Can you make also an analysis for Armada?
Sure, I'll drag Matt in on that one though as he was a big fan. (Bought what I think is the last copy in the UK today lol)
I am glad I sold all of my models when I did. About a year ago I think.
Yeah I shifted all mine before i moved to Nottingham so... about five years ago. Kept a couple of the models i REALLY liked like the Ghost and that was it.
Thanks for that take, I really enjoyed your style. I was big into 1.0 then two came out and the extra resistance in learning the changes along with some big life changes for me made me drop out of the game.
I’m now at a stage where I’ve been burned so many times by this kind of thing that I just won’t play licensed IPs anymore. Yes, MCP looks cool, but it’s only a matter of time before some kind of license shenanigans kill the game and leave people with a lot
Of expensive stuff and a very sparse community imho
Thanks! Yes, i imagine that these Licensed IP games will definitely suffer from the drop in investment. Fan support might continue though and 3d printing might take off and carry the games. For me, it's all poisoned though.
Shatterpoint would be my roughly fifth skirmish scale Star Wars game (WEG, WOTC, Imperial Assault and Legion) and I cna't use the figures from the previous ones. Even those from the same corporate group (i.e. FFG/Asmodai).
Naturally, they want you to buy more miniatures.
Yep i have ALL of imperial assault and when i saw Legion was a diff scale i was out. Then when i saw SL was a diff scale again i knew they were just taking the piss. I get it, but it would put loads of people off. that AND the insane price point.
Good analysis.
Thanks!
"EX-wing"
I've been devouring opinions and coverage of this all weekend and can't believe it's the first time I've seen that joke 😂
Still love the game, we'll see where it goes next!
I come up with some Gems every now and again! It will be interesting to see if the Fans keep it going. :)
Fortunately I play Rebellion and The Clone Wars.
That way what I have is everything I need.
Rebellion is such a great game. Star Wars in a box
@@GrumpyGrognardGaming I never played X-Wing or Imperial Assault or any of these expandable games. Endless buying is expensive, an endless rabbit hole. I already have Battletech as my rabbit hole and I cannot afford many rabbit holes. Also I do not have lots of space for boxes.
By annoying fans with weird changes they kill consistent sources of revenue. China is challenging Amazon in USA and flooded Europe with EVs.
As world situation settles I anticipate that companies will not be able to survive easily. So I suspect they will need to please customers or go down.
The game was very unbalanced and X wing 2.0 was absolutley necessary. The conversion kits were more than fair to keep your collection flying. AMG killed the game.
You know, this kind of makes me tired of miniatures gaming. So many good games over the years had this exact thing happen to them. 40K was my first experience with this. Rogue trader was awesome, 2nd ed was meh, 3rd was just disgusting.
Then got into Mutant Chronicles (Warzone). Great system, minis were ok, but by modern standards not so much. Second edition comes around and the player base which was smaller than 40k vanished. After that I got into warmachine, and after three editions the minis are collecting dust. Now X-wing, I enjoyed, 1st edition immensly and the 2nd edition I saw comming due to the overall complexity of all the card combinations.
As to the starter sets, I scanned the dials because I needed more of those and figured I can reuse most of the basic pilots should I need to. But still the switch to 2nd killed it in my area. As to casual play, it is nonexistent, there was only competitive play wich is not my prefered play style.
There a difference in stopping development and stopping production?
The products are already crazy hard to source, at least here in the UK.
I'd say production has probably stopped.
Maybe one last run to help people complete collections but I doubt it.
@@GrumpyGrognardGaming Remember what happened to Imperial Assault.
@@Octarinewolf i actually have ALL of Imperial Assault thankfully. FF are so random with their reprints.
I mean, yes - development would be future releases, production is both future products *and* any existing products, so it's likely to get very hard to find official boxed products going all the way back to the 2.0 Starter and Conversion Kits
If the reason they cite for stopping the development is the high cost of pre-painted miniatures, then continuing production isn't financially viable either.
I’m waiting for the remastered pronoun version of the original trilogy.
I agree. Star Wars was a licence to print money, but look at it now. For me it was the power creep and then 2.0 that killed X-Wing. Most upset about Armada.
Yeah it sucks. If we had better custodians of the IP it could have been quite special and as you say, unlimited money.
interesting points made until you went off on an anti-woke tangent. disney aren't out to 'get you' mate
Nothing was said that was anti-woke. He said that when fans have had legitimate complaints about Disney produced Star Wars, Disney (Lucasfilm in particular) instead of listening objectively to their complaints and trying to improve their product, has a habit of trying to shift blame to the fans by falsely accusing them of being motivated by bigotry and racism.
@@wscrivnerthanks, I couldn't remember saying anything like that, actually checked the vid and I stand by what I say, I'm just appalled by the horrific editing. You can tell I was ill... 😅
I do think you have hit most of the points here.
MCP and shatterpoint are fairly popular near me. No idea about star wars legion.
My opinion is it's dead ,Jim. Disney has just plain killed the franchise. So sad. In my area even legion, shatterpoint and MCP have all trickled in sales.
This is what i had heard. The high price points can't help. Star Wars is totally gone now IMO.
A trashy edition, too many additional models and the reckless brand damage Disney have done are all contributing factors I think.
They were definitely scraping the bottom of the barrel roll.
Completely agree. I went full stop when 2.0 dropped... as did my gaming funds, but that's a different matter. No way could this casual keep up. So now I'll be selling off my nonessentials and keep the models I love (A-Wings, TIE Bombers, etc). Perfect opportunity for a new X-Wing/Wings of Glory game to appear and fill in the gap.
I'm wondering if the Fans will keep it going in some way with 3d prints.
I dropped out when they introduced 2nd Edition. No reason why people can't play 1st ed though. More offline gamers need to stick to the older editions of whatever rpg, tabletop or card game they might like. Staying up to date is a sales technique that fails (by design?) to improve on rules and game-flow.
Exactly, you always have the old stuff, it doesn't disintigrate when the new editions are released and SOMEONE has probably released fan updates for them.