A Brief History of X-wing Miniatures, Editions, 1.0, 2.0, 2.5 and "What Edition is my Stuff?"
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- Опубліковано 3 бер 2024
- A quick history of the X-wing Miniatures Game from release through the editions (1.0, 2.0 and the current 2.5), a breakdown of major moments, key components, and which materials you can still use/what you need to play X-wing 2.5
Squad building here: • How to Build an X-wing...
Rules/Points here: www.atomicmassgames.com/xwing...
YASB Squad Builder here: yasb.app/
LaunchBayNext Builder here: launchbaynext.app/
ListFortress here: listfortress.com/
Rebel Starter Set here: shop.asmodee.com/rebel-allian...
Tabletop Simulator w/X-wing 2.0: • How to Install and Use... (thanks @GoldSquadronPodcast!)
TONS of extra information here:
xwhub.com/?fbclid=IwAR2xZvako...
Image source here: www.dicebreaker.com/games/sta... - Ігри
This is excellent. I've seen an uptick of posts on new players and returning players needing a bit of guidance on what is what... this will be one of the first resource to get them to check out for sure!
A few things I noticed: The Ban List technically (officially) only applies to Standard format. In squad builders, if you choose Extended format, the banned cards as well as all the ships that are not Standard legal will appear as available. YASB does have a checkbox feature avialble (top right, arrow next to 'Randomize' - Misc Settings - Enable Ban List) this allows you to choose extended, but the banned cards are not visible.
You refer to the new tarot size AMG released cards as 'Quickbuild'. Quickbuild was a very similar format FFG had released, but it was a totally different format than any Standard play and not compatible with the '200 point' system. AMG's tarot cards are called 'Standard Loadouts' and because of the different squad building (20 point based) they are completely compatible with the Standard list building.
While AMG did state that customizable ships\pilots are not going anywhere, I suspect that we probably will not get any net new pilots or upgrades that are not Standard Loadouts.
Keep up the good work! This is great stuff!
Ah! Thank you for catching me on that. I've been playing for a long time, but basically all of my vocabulary about it is still informal - double checking that I use the term "Standard Loadout" is something I'll need to watch out for.
On the Custom pilots, I'll take that bet ;) we've only seen, what, three? Four? Model releases from AMG so far (Bombers, 2x Squadron Packs, I'm including the YT-2400) and of those the most recent, the Bomber, did still include the Custom pilots. Those were reprints, sure, but still. Hotshots & Aces II (that was AMG, right?) also had brand new Custom Pilots.
I definitely get reducing the number of new Custom pilots in the game for balance, but I hope we do still see at least some new ones coming out.
Mistakes I noticed:
- Calculate Tokens were added in *1.0* with Threepio, used on the IG-2000, etc.
- In 1.0 there were only Large and *Small* base sizes, Medium is the one that was added in 2.0
I loved this run down! It has caught me up from when I stopped playing a bit before 1st edition ended.
Happy to help!
A ton of players have been asking questions about this, it seemed very timely to summarize the changes. Obviously I didn't come close to covering everything, but glad you liked it :D
As someone who was introduced to version 1.0 today as an introduction and already seeing the potential issues with how bumping and turrets worked, I am so glad I’m finding all these issues fixed already lol.
Seems like a really fun game, glad I found this video. Shame the playgroup in question seems intent on playing 1st edition, so I’ll probably need to pass on the game…
I'll never understand the folks who want to stick with 1.0 - 2.0 maybe, but 1.0? There are some pretty major rules issues with 1.0.
Maybe the group would consider house-ruling some of the worse issues... ?
@@casualdadgames yeah, the host had the upgraded 360 degree turret and I was immediately seeing where this was going lol
@@NinjatoBlade I mean, if they insist - IF you want to escalate, but only if you mean it - look up GhostFenn and/or Paratanni and reign busted hell down XD
Those were the late 1.0 lists that flat busted the game wide open
@@casualdadgames LOL I appreciate that, Ty - though it seems like these are casual gamers, they just play 100pt skirmish with ships they think are fun
@@casualdadgames unrelated, I’ve done nothing but try to build lists in LaunchBay and read the core rules pdf for 2.5 since I woke up 2 hours ago, and I feel like I’m missing a fundamental understanding of how charges are regained (for like missiles and stuff) and how actions are done. Why would you ever want to coordinate? How many locks can a single ship have/maintain? Wouldn’t separatists always calculate? What’s this whole “actions can fail” thing? Lol I’m so lost
Very happy to watch this video.
A lot of people have gone on and on about the "ffg money grab" when 1.0 went to 2.0. But 2.0 is just a better game; so many problems were fixed. Happy to see a video which talks about the steady improvement of X-Wing's rules.
We've all been learning together over time ;)
How is needing to buy a $40+ conversion kit (sometimes multiple for the same faction) not a money grab move? What would you call that instead? Did you want to actually spend that much money on carboard tokens and cards that you already own in order to play a game you already invested into? Good for you if you got the cash to piss away but I didn't and I can safely say the vast majority of the player in my area didn't either. I can also say that "strategy" of improving a game costs a hell of a lot more money than the more common "upkeep" cost of other table top games I play (even Warhammer)...
@@camwardart it could have been a $150 Starter set with a handful of models you already had. That's what basically every other game system has done.
Not sure how you're comparing to Warhammer. To keep up with that (which I haven't in years) I needed close to $200 every three years just for *books,* all of which were going to be useless in a few years.
Sure, if they stuck with 1.0 they could have not gone the conversion route. But if ever there was going to be a new one at all, the Conversion Kits were the least cash-grab route they could have taken.
@@casualdadgames Just to give an example ( I was using warhammer as its typically considered one of the most expensive tabletop games) You buy the newest rulebook and your army is updated over, I don't need to buy unit conversion packs for each of my armies and their units to be playable in that edition. Like you I haven't kept up to date with all of Games Workshops current titles so maybe im also out of date in that opinion but that use to be how it worked when I played.
Your point about the books being basically useless after a new edition, is that not the exact same thing that happened to all your xwing cards when you swapped over to the new edition?
Legion if they want to update the rule system (atleast so far) you just go online and download the latest errata and point changes. You don't need to buy any new versions of anything, even units that get new ways to be ran can just have their cards printed and played.
X wing at that time forced you into buying conversion kits to play the latest edition , per faction, and on a per ship bases per upgrade kit. As a tabletop consumer that's where I say the lines been crossed into unfair cash grab.
I am honestly happier getting a "useless book" , atleast I can still read through it for fluff and ideas and its not just a stack of unplayable carboard and tokens.
Thats just me and I am def as you would call on this channel a somewhat bitter 1.0 holdout so Im sorry if any of it comes off as rude or whatever, just how I have felt many years. I liked X wing a lot, its what got me into all the Star Wars FFG/AMG games today but 2.0 really hit me and the community I played with in a bad way and killed the game for all of us. So im not going to look back fondly on that years later and say it was "all good!" as it was literally those stupid conversion kits that ruined the game for our community, I can't even get people to try the new rule system on tabletop sim. No one wants to play it anymore. Great if you didn't get effected in that way but that's what they did for our community.
@@camwardart I really appreciate the detailed response - you are actually the first person I've interacted with whose community shut down at the 2.0 transition, and I want to understand that perspective.
For me, it definitely wasn't nothing, but for $80 I had both of my Factions fully converted, with a ton of extra parts that I'm still running off of years later to convert the occasional lot. That felt like a very good deal considering the alternative was to have to re-buy the entire game one ship at a time. I also had been let down pretty hard by late-stage 1.0, so the rules changes in 2.0 also felt like a hard effort to improve on the game that was worth supporting.
I hope I haven't referred to 1.0 "holdouts" as bitter - I keep meaning to mention that I think on the whole the 1.0 crowd was very respectful at the jump, but I could have just missed the conversation, I was less in the community groups at the time.
Overall great vid. Agree with several subjective points as well, I disagree with some others. I am curious though, I want to say resistance and first order factions were separated off before 2.0 I thought? I do remember they had their own dials even back then. Otherwise...
Mistakes and technicalities:
-Firespray was actually just absorbed to the scum and villainy faction in 1.0-5, it was dual faction, not moved to it. Imperial version of firespray was still legal. So not really an errata, just a cardboard expansion.
-Force Awakens set was actually the first edition change they called "1.5". It did have several core rule changes and the damage deck inside was later adopted as the required one for legal play and the old one was phased out eventually.
-"Initiative" used to be "Pilot Skill" when it was 1.0 and 1.5
-The Force Awakens core set included two TIE/fo. The TIE/SF came out later as a separate sculpt and expansion.
-Bid had been in the game since it's initial release.
-IIRC AMG was not the one to introduce squad packs as starters. The first squad pack starters were FFGs Republic and Separatist faction starters each with three ships that came with the initial release of Second Edition. You would just need one expansion pack each for them as well to get a full squad in the 2.0 rules though just like the new starters it might be a bit rough to do.
- I know for sure that FO was a part of Empire, because it was a big decision moment for me figuring out what to do with the *3* First Order ships I had that far from justified a whole other Conversion Kit. FO and Resistance had their own aesthetic, but were part of the Empire/Rebel factions all through 1.0
- Ah! Got it, I missed/forgot the timeline of when the Firespray was "moved out" of Empire, my bad
- Ok, I wasn't aware the Force Awakens set was ever called "1.5," nice precedent
- Initiative vs. Pilot Skill... I can only imagine how many times I've gotten things like that wrong. Pretty sure I still reference Green maneuvers too XD
- Dangit, of course I said TIE/sf about the FA Core Set. I swear I do know the difference between those ships, thank you for the correction!
- Bid was in 1.0, got that too. I wasn't playing competitively as much then (?) or just wasn't aware of it in the same way as I became aware of it in 2.0
- We've had "Squad Packs" for a long time. I believe the first one was the Skystrike Academy for Empire, and yes that was FFG. However, I don't consider that equivalent to a Starter because it didn't include core rules or game resources like dice and templates, even when 2.0 came out and we had the Republic and Separatist opening boxed sets. I also disagree on the squad size, specifically because of which chasses were chosen. It was pretty dang impossible to fill a squad with a Belbullab and two Vultures. Less so for an Aethersprite and two Torrents, but those are hardly equivalent to the current "Starters" that AMG has rolled out. Unless you played Rebels or Empire and could use one of the Core Set ships with a squad pack (which is very similar to where we are right now), but still the AMG designed starter sets are an *excellent* entry point into X-wing in a way we really haven't had before.
- The rules change between 1.0 and 2.0 wasn't a complete overhaul, rather a condensation of the learnings they'd made throughout the course of 1.0, but the core gameplay was the same. 2.5 was a bigger change with actual hanges to the core gameplay.
- The self-bumping change was unjustified and from dev interviews apparently based on games they saw in 1.0. In which self-bumping (fortressing) was a huge problem, but only early on. In 2.0 it was very rare, especially in tournament play.
The change simply muddied up and slowed down the game in those instances where self-bumping was avoidable.
- The point cost change was absolutely horrible. The added granularity from 2.0 made list-building really interesting and much more fun than 1.0. 2.5 completely eliminated (for me) the fun of list-building. The fun/yanky yet effective lists were replaced by forced efficiency and lots of upgrades you didn't need and forgot half the time.
- X-wing might not be dying, but don't expet them to realease any new ships anytime soon. Or ever. The rules has been set in almost three years now and the last new ship model the released was almost two years ago. The last boxed ships they release were the squadron packs almost a year ago. One wave per year is really not healthy for any game.
You also omitted anything epic. It was hugely upgraded between 1.0 and 2.0, yet all but abandoned by AMG.
I mean... 2.0 changed Turrets from 360 to arcs, added Force, Strain and Deplete, completely redesigned the pilot abilities and dials of almost every single ship, removed a significant number of cards completely, changed the dial colors, redid the damage deck, changed the deckbuilding total, and *added four whole factions.* I'm fairly comfortable calling that a game overhaul, even if it technically didn't change the core rules all that much.
I personally had problems at competitive events with self-bumping. Droid swarms, Republic ARCs, of course the infamous "butterfly stop" of Starvipers. It was an existing rules "problem" in 2.0, and one that was game-breaking enough to be worth changing. Dial-modding abilities weren't destroying competitive play either, but there's still a case to be made that they broke some of the semi-sacred rules of being a dial-based game.
The granularity argument has been had. It's still there, just more in variable slots and Loadout Value (which I absolutely love as a balance mechanic). I'm not going to defend the 20pt base squad building change, but using the same pool for both pilots and upgrades was a nightmare for game balancing a game this size.
We'll see. Commercial challenges, sure, but even with the latest wave of corporate troubles at Asmodee, I would be absolutely shocked if we don't see plastic releases (including new sculpts) coming from AMG.
I did omit Epic, sorry about that! I have never once touched it personally, so it completely slipped my mind!
@casualdadgames Well, we can call it an overhaul, but it was basically the same game. Like giving a house a fresh cout of paint. All the new abilities, ships and factions could be considered new waves. The turret arc was prototyped in 1.0, same with bullseye and some pilot's ability, that carried over to 2.0 (forgot which). The change in dial colours was an accessibility change, not a design choice. The change in points offered more granularity, but the mechanics were the same. And it didn't completely make a bunch of pilots irrelevant.
FFG addressed the self-bumping issues in the tournament regulations, making it possible to remove a player from the tournament if they exploited it. If you experienced this then it was down to the judge, not the game. I don't know about dial--modding, I never saw any complaints about it in 2.0. There were rather few abilities of the kind, compared to 1.0.
The game was pretty fairly balanced in 2.0 with 200 points. And changes to oversights were implemented quickly due to the player feedback. I feel 20 points with loadout value limits options quickly. Especially onsidering my above point by removing generic pilots as a valid choice. I really liked those.
We haven't seen new plastic for almost two years!! May the 4th might shine the light on things to come, but with the plethora of new ships in the shows, it's worrying that we haven't had an announcement already. And with a debt of €900 million Asmodee has to cut somewhere. I think we'll see staff being let go from all their studios and that will also mean some games will be discontinued. In that case it's donw to profitability.
Honestly to save paper should just use the app to make the custom load outs like this save money on cards and everything because honestly saving money to make cards like the art good but atleast prints will have the art
I am thinking about returning after a long break.... i appreciate all the info. I have read some of the critiques on the new rules but you explained why the changes had to made really well. The one thing i really don't like is print and play. I don't want to constantly print rules, points, cards, etc. Can you buy, or are they currently planning to release a deck of all quick build cards? Thanks.
I haven't heard of any plans to do a Standard Loadout (someone called me out on using the wrong term) card packs, but it would be awesome!
As for the print-and-play aspect, they did a bunch of that for erratas and a handful of redesigned ships (re: Aethersprites). I hope that part doesn't happen again.
Have you heard of Infinite Arenas? They do on-demand large-format cards that are actually card stock at least
"... I did that. I am the problem here." LOL!
The pieces were never especially competitive, but taken all together and you were a rock-throwing troll of ridiculousness. But worse, because you're throwing the things AT the rocks. I do absolutely understand why that rule change was made XD
1.0 was a fast, fun, fluffy game, at least in the golden age of 2013-2014. While late 1.0 (really the introduction of TLT) was insufferable due to the awful balance issues, the move to 2.0 (and later 2.5) was a mistake. A ban list or box set of errata’d cards and dials would have been much better.
RIP to the FFG Forums.
I personally started in the Fat Han era. I don't see a world where full 360-degree arcs could exist in the game in a good way. Having no agency whatsoever to avoid a shot requires either nerfing all turret ships to hell (which was tried) or boosting ace ships through the ceiling (which was also tried).
Maybe we could have gotten erratas just to all turrets and turret ships, but there was a *lot* in the game in the end that was problematic. If you start going down the path of things that *had* to be fixed, it's pretty clear it's enough that it justified a full version change.
@@casualdadgames early 2013 was the Fat Han era. There were plenty of counters going from 2013 into Wave 3, 3.5 (Imp Aces and the Rebel Transport) and Wave 4.
I started playing in early 2013. Fat Han was easy for me to beat, but I used X-wings and spent a lot of time trying to find the right squad that could take on Howlrunner Swarms and the Three Amigos (Imperial and Rebel variants).
YT-2400 Unboxing: ua-cam.com/video/MFBM0pgJb20/v-deo.htmlsi=mtPPMfhIbtZYtWED
Ive been out of the game since just before 2.5, question is do i jump back in?
At the bare minimum I would hang on to my stuff (ships, play components, etc). Jumping back in is a bigger question - is there a local play group? Do you have friends you do/did/could play with? Or are you comfortable with Tabletop Simulator (TTS?)
Personally I've been playing for a long, long time and the game still scratches that Star Wars skirmish game itch in a way no others do, and I really enjoy the conflicting priorities and in-game decision making that Scenarios have added. Plus the bumping, obstacle and Ion changes are utility pieces all in their own rights.
How would you jump back in if you did?
It's tricky, I think there is still a couple of players from my old group playing (which was about 30+ strong at 1 point) and I've still got all my stuff so I think I could get games easy enough. My issue is I play a lot of games and there's only so much time. Such a shame the game went from attracting 500 players at an event to about 20 in the space of 2 years .
@@leetaylor5470 Worlds at least was a huge blowout success, and Sith Takers in the UK is also full up - but yes, we're in the middle of a transition where quite a few tournament players left, and a lot of new players aren't as aware of organized play (yet!)
No shiny dice as prizes that's what killed it, let's be honest it's the only reason we played 😂😂
@@leetaylor5470 ha! I am a total sucker for swag! I even kept my 1.0 alt-arts just because
lol "I'm the problem"...
Gotta call it out when it was you, right?
I don't think I was *that* bad, but being chucked on a rock is no fun - I get the change XD
@@casualdadgames true true, to be fair you’ve made me wanna add more Nantex to my lists haha. It’s good to see active x-wing content creators
@@ShadeszOfficialso, put those Nantex on the table?
Oh give me back my 1.0 captain nym,lowhrick,ezra list 😊
I would be perfectly happy to see the Scurrg stay in the bin, but I'll take new/reprinted ships XD
Nasty list!
Paid shills: "This game is better than ever!!!"
Everyone else: "WTS my entire X-Wing Collection, serious offers only."
Geez, I wish I was getting paid for this XD
I will say, on the Reddit and in the Discords it's much more common to see people not able to buy as much as they want to (to expand, or start new) than to see anyone looking to sell a collection.