The GORN? Are They The Real Ones? - Star Trek Theory!
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- Опубліковано 13 чер 2024
- The Gorn have been one of the most iconic yet underused species in Star Trek's long history. Starting in The Original Series with a man in a rubber suit, they never really got much screen time until the turn of the century, when we started to get slender CGI Gorns, movie-budget men in rubber suits, animated versions and now with Strange New Worlds a mixture of puppetry and CGI.
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Chapters:
00:00 - The Real Gorn?
00:56 - Gorn Explained In Star Trek
02:46 - Mirror Universe Gorn
03:21 - Kelvin Timeline Gorn Species
05:30 - Gorn in Strange New Worlds
09:03 - The BIG Question!
Video Credits:
Written by Dom Paris
Presented by @CaptainJack
Edited by Troy Courtney-Hart
___________________________________________
All STAR TREK® footage and its various marks are trademarks of CBS Studios Inc. 2022 © CBS Studios Inc./Paramount Global Pictures Corp.
Title: The GORN? Are They The Real Ones? - Star Trek Theory!
#StarTrek #StrangeNewWorlds #TheGorn - Розваги
It was a massive suit with puppeteers & a small amount of cgi. Litterally a man in a rubber suit for the exosuit scenes. He even did wirework.
I like how they did it, you see so many shows using too much CGI. At least this method gives their animators more time to work on other things of the show
Really? That makes the adult Gorn so much more impressive.
There was no CGI in TOS
No CGI in 1968...
Imagine the Gorn in horror when they noticed that Pamela, the female cooker with mobility issues and amputed tail, was selected to fight hand-to-hand with Captain Kirk.
Why bring the best out? It's just a human
lol
I really think I prefer the Gorn that STO uses... seriously. They're literally the Scientists of the Klingon Empire.
Considering we've encountered species like the Xindi that are the same species while ranging from mammalian, aquatic, insectoid, and reptilian, it's not far-fetched to imagine that the Gorn come in various forms
I think they're more of just offshoots from the same species, or just a collection of races who officially formed a permenant alliance. And "Xindi" is simply a name for them collectivally.
The “Xindi” were 6 different intelligent species that evolved on the same planet, which makes the “Xindi” an outlier among the various planets to evolve intelligent life. Usually there is only one species that survives. Even the Xindi experienced an extinction event, as the Avians are extinct by the time of Enterprise.
@@davidheckjrThank you. I don't understand why people are so confused. I thought it was very clear on Enterprise that The Xindi were separate species from the same planet
The xindi are separate species who have a common ancestor much much further back.
@@davidheckjrearth had humans and dolphins as sentient species.
I dislike the Xenomorph aspects of the new Gorn. In TOS the Gorn trigger instinctive fear of big reptiles in Kirk, but it is learned that, while fearsome, there was an understandable purpose of their attack. It is much harder for me to buy into the idea that the characteristics of the SNW version of the Gorn come from an advanced spacefaring civilization. They seem too chaotically predatory to the extent that their newborn young hunt and kill each other. I just don’t like it.
I think not being able to nail down "an understandable purpose of their attack" is the entire point of the Gorn in SNW. I think there's a lot of threads of information in the first two seasons of SNW that pretty effectively compartmentalise adult Gorn - and the makeup of Gorn society beyond youth - from the violence of juvenile Gorn. We have the information to know that, regardless of the seeming chaos wrought by the young Gorn, adullt Gorn society is deeply intelligent, cognizant and methodical. The thing that makes the appear "chaotically predatory" (rather than cognizantly predatory, because they are absolutely predatory) is more due to Starfleet's ignorance about the inner workings of their ritualistic civilization, a civilization that has a very different perspective to humanoid societies.
The Gorn that faced Kirk in Arena was a fat captain. The Metrons paired the two combatants equally.
i keep asking "how did the gorn develop FTL space travel?" matters not how smart they are when they keep killing each other
I like the Gorn from the Star Fleet Battles universe. (This was a separate universe developed in the late 70s/early 80s for a Star Trek based board game and was based entirely on TOS.) The Gorn were actually made up of three related races from different planets, seeded there by some ancient race. They were territorial but not evil or overly warlike and their values weren't too different from the values of the Federation. They shared a border with the Romulans and likely thought that Federation colony they attacked was another Romulan incursion. Diplomats worked it out and there was an instance where a Gorn and Federation ship teamed up to fight a Klingon/Romulan task force which resulted in the Gorn and Federation becoming close allies. (TOS Klingons and Romulans were allied with the Klingons selling some ships to the Romulans) Later on many races in that universe started using fighters (armed shuttles) but the Gorn were ill suited for handling fighters. So they recruited their fighter pilots from the Federation races. Anyway, it seems more interesting to me to make the Gorn into a more civilized race than it does to turn them into horror movie monsters.
Agreed on all points. In that “universe” the nasty ones were the Federation’s Cat-like neighbors, the Zinti (sp?), that liked to hunt down and eat other intelligent species.
I feel like they should have had a "don't judge by the cover" type of role based on how they were introduced. Kirk was supposed to treat them as just a space monster, but showed empathy. We the audience are taught the same lesson.
Some reptiles' genders depends on temperature their eggs were developed in. In theory, the Gorn could have something similar where the environment the eggs are laid can cause different kinds of Gorn to be hatched. This may also determine their roles in society, like a caste system.
I have another theory is that the tailless Gorn of the TOS and ENT are older Gorn. Kinda like frogs where they looses their tales. But because of how ruthless young Gorns are, only a few are able to grow into the elders. A survival of the fittest kind of way to determine who gets to be in charge.
Unlikely since their adult form have tails
I'm kinda like to see the Gorn again in Discovery (specifically the Gorn in the 32nd century), out of curiosity of how much of their society and culture have change over the centuries.
My take was the changes to the Gorn in SNW are also the product of Temporal Cold War genetic modification as the Suliban underwent in ENT.
I also got HALO Elite vibes as well.
That's kind of what I was thinking.
In TOS that was a different time-line where they hadn't met the Gorn already, but since ENT had encountered them long before that, the whole time-line changed and now the whole Federation knows about the Gorn for a long time.
The gorn hegemony has been mentioned in star trek enterprise. That was the first mention of the gorn collective being referenced as the "gorn hegemony "
I like the new Gorn. Would be hard to reproduce the rubber suit look in a modern show.
No it wouldn't you just have to hit up Japan, Bandai or Jim Henson production for them
Hahaha it would have been better if SNW stopped being TOS 2.0😂💯👊✌️
It wouldn’t be hard, it would just dated and bad.
@@evos469Star trek Strange New Worlds Farscape edition 😂
Would love to see a complete season with a gorn conflict plot
I do hope the Gorn will eventually be used as a more interesting in SNW, instead of serving only as monsters. There's been a built up to that point, I really hope they capitalize on it!
Perhaps different subspecies of Gorn reproduce differently? 🤔
Gorn should be expanded on future series current 25th Century Trek. In some beta Canon novels the Gorn are on good relationships with the Federation and its allies.
@@robertmartinjr.4537, like in the Star Fleet Battles and Fed and Empire games.
honestly the gorn have always been my favorite alien race and have always been hoping for more of them. as far as design goes i love the strange new worlds design and the kelvin timeline gorn
Wibble!!!!!!!!!!! XD
Greetings Captain Jack, of course the Gorn in the original series was played by Ted Cassidy, who was also Lurch from the original Aadams Family!!! Thanks for sharing another interesting & informative video!!! 🖖
Ted Cassidy was the voice of the Gorn. He wasn't in the suit.
@@flyingwombat59 You are absolutely right, the man in the suit was Bobby Clark!! Thanks for the correction. 🖖
Dated as the TOS Gorn is i personally preferred that SNW not approached the Gorn at all. SNW needs to be a real prequel and touch on pre TOS History. Let the show stsnd on its on merits. I feel the Gorn should be reintroduced in current 25th Century Star Trek.
Yes. Exactly as it was sold as created
@samwalker8893 when the show progresses inevitably canonically towards Star Trek TOS its going to have to align closer to TOS era. If they show Kirk taking command of the Enterprise that is well established in Canon it can't be as it stands now in visual aesthetics. If it does continue then it can't be considered truthfully Canon. How are the showrunners going to approach that??.
@@robertmartinjr.4537 the same way they have since they started when even the “same Enterprise” was a different set and image each week, the same “messhall” changed 22 times in 3 series. They have always said continually that the visual aesthetics show what todays technology can achieve NOT what the vessel was, and as we develop as a society and understand our technology to be adapted, and our concept of future develops as would their effects and styles. Hence why PADDs are no longer waved about as a concept, exactly why Kirk was still signing with a pen but Pike used hologram comms etc….
Our times change, theirs hasnt been reached
The Temporal Cold War and the Suliban changed everything.
SNW is not in the same time-line as TOS, so anything can happen.
@ambulocetusnatans I agree with you on that but Akiva Goldsman swears SNW is completely Canon within the TOS era timeline🤣
I like the idea I think you mentioned where they could be a variety of similar species all collectively calling themselves "Gorn." Rather like who the Xindi consisted of several very different species that all called themselves Xindi, though amongst themselves they'd sometimes refer to their sub-species.
I'm fascinated by this morbid confusion on improving bland Star Trek aliens.
I will say this. SMW's Gorn look way more mennesing than the TOS ones.
anyone else think the Gorn reminds them of the Maggog from Andromeda... just me... ok
It’s all stolen from Alien anyway.
Why do the Gorn ships look like the Chig fighters from Space Above and Beyond? Anyone else notice this?
What a great show
I can't believe a SciFi and horror movie is not brought up instead of Star Trek IV. It would be great if TOS and SNW were the combined stories. In my opinion, this would be a great movie
you forgot that disco mentioned the gorn as well, the gorn in the future wiped themselves out trying to create a wormhole.
I’ve been out of touch with the various shows so some of the change’s surprised me. Also I don’t like the remake of “Arena” with the cgi added to fix the appearance since I saw the original. Just my preference.
The xenomorph parasitic life cycle doesn’t seem consistent with their biology or any reptiles I know of.
The guy’s idea in the comments about losing their tails when they get older I agree with. On what I consider their extreme to me variation of appearance lacks a more consistent body plan and they should have included a biologist/expert. Not even earth reptiles carry such extremes.
I liked the idea that the Klingons in the TOS were youngsters and they develop the ridges later but TNG cannon made this idea irrelevant.
Don't forget the gorn were more dinosaur like in their star trek Enterprise appearance. Maybe the gorn tried their hands at augments
Damn. I miss Star Trek.
In Family Guy's Star Wars spoof, Darth Stewie tells Bossk he thought he saw him fight Capt. Kirk
If they had done a star trek movie involving the Gorn that would be awesome
In Star Fleet Battle the Gorn have a Confederation. They, like Klingon's and Human's were taking from there home work and spread to others some 13,500 before the common era. IN the case of Gorns, they are were placed on at at least give works, one in Romulan Space were they are not technology advanced, and three in what is now Gorn space, where evolution create three slightly different version of the Gorn, but mostly in color, and a fifth were the Gorns when extinct, but there decedents developed limited wings and guiding abilities. Those being actually build a pirate fleet and event were nearly wiped out. IN the SFB Universe the Gorn are a close Allie to the Federation sharing many common values and mind set. After a brief conflict over a settlement, both sides thinking that the other were Romulans, when a Federation and Gorn ship met, both sides opened communication and upon seeing a Gorn the Human Captain said "your not Romulans you are Dinosaurs", the Gorn asked "what is a Dinosaurs?", and so the humans send pictures and the Gorn found it Hilarious.
Seeing the OG Gorn blink was kind of strange 😅
I haven't seen many of the 'remastered' Original Series episodes, but I do know that they added better special effects to some scenes, and I clearly remember that the Gorn didn't blink back then 😏
I'm really not a fan of most 'New Trek', so of course I'm not a fan of this 'Xenomorphing' of the Gorn.
Why not just make a new show set in 'present day' Trek, then introduce a new alien race instead?
I was rewatching the original tos episode arena about the first appearance of the gorns, now this is after pikes time on the enterprise and it seemed like they all just found out what a gorn was and Scotty was there too all baffled 😂 yet in strange worlds Scotty knows how to trap the gorn and everyone seems very familiar with the gorn and the designs of the ships and method of attacks yet in the original series episode they did not
Cheers Jack
Star Trek Online has Gorn as a playable faction. It's been that way for years. I played Star Trek Fleet Command, which has Gorn ships as enemies also.
😮 i can't even start to imagine how hot it was wearing a suit like that
I have a friend that worked for Toys R Us and had to wear the Geoffrey the Giraffe costume. She said it was like boiling in that thing. And it had a fan in the back.
In a franchise this old and with all the tech we have now, it would be silly not to update the designs of some classics.
Gorn were in a Star Trek TNG book.
Nejlepší vysvětlení tolika podruhů by bylo ještě kastovní system a více rozdílní jedinci vzavislosti na kastě to by bylo aspoň podle mě
The best explanation for so many subspecies would still be the caste system and more different individuals depending on the caste, at least in my opinion
The original Gorn was the best. I wish these modern renditions would have stuck closer to the theme.
Gorn adults lose their tails and their brains start growing. Three-four stages of life being very different isn't that farfetched, caterpillars and butterflies are the same entity, so there's evolutionary precedence
I still think the original Gorn is the best and should not be altered
And on "first" seeing a Gorn in TOS, why did Uhura scream like a little girl when she's already aware of them in SNW?
I was gonna say are more like the Magog not xenomorphs..
TOS needs to be updated to the canon look!
Its completely understandable that the SNW Gorn would look different as it is a completely different era of TV.
Personally, nothing beats TOS for me, but I am enjoying SNW.
Perhaps its like with Alien, the host species impart some characteristics - the Gorn that Kirk fought was born via a humanoid
Slar the gorn was not immune to starfleet phasers. But the SNW gorns are somehow immune to the presumed superior weaponry. Explain.
He took quite a few shots to stay down, while be crushed with 20 Gs; might've been less an immunity than a resistance.
In my humble view, I believe that SNW is getting the Gorn all wrong. To make them so much like the 'Alien' Xenomorphs just seems like a horror movie rip off. Also, the SNW's Gorn helmets look like the ones from the movie 'Battleship'. And the Gorn starships look like and move like the adversary 'Chig' starships in the series 'Space: Above and Beyond'.
If anything, I would've liked Trek to make the species a relation to the 'Voth' species that left the Alpha quadrant, for life in the Delta quadrant.
The Voth were strong, intelligent, territorial and arrogant. Wouldn't it be neat to know that humans and Gorn somehow shared the same DNA, and we find that out in post-'Arena' episode in the Kirk-era. And post Voyager-era, we find out that the Gorn and Voth are distantly related; somewhat like the Romulans and Vulcans.
My headcannon so far has been that the Gorn in Strange New Worlds are the extragalactic Gorn and separate from the Gorn we've seen in the other series.
Kirk to Spock 'scan for 10 parsecs to detect remaining ships' Spock to Kirk 'none detected they are all gorn' :)
no creativity on the part of the writers, and laziness that they couldn't keep the Gorn true to what they were, they had to rewrite them into something else because.....well, they didn't have the brains to use them the way they were. I can just imagine how cool it would have been to create a race that is very smart, physically slow, very strong (not impervious to weapons that disintegrate hyper materials), how their tech would have evolved, how their culture would have evolved. Not just reuse xenomorphs. sad
So you get scratched you're impregnated, a'la Alien. That flies in the face of what both Mirror-Phlox and Kelvin-McCoy both said about how they procreated. So much for that "Consistently" that Star Trek is infamous for.
The differences between Gorn types might be completely superficial. Like different breeds of dog vary wildly in their morphology, yet they have less genetic disparity than different races of humans.
These different Gorn could just be like different races of people. South East Asian, Nordic, Welsh, First Nations Native American, etc. These populations do have pronounced differences in stature, skin pigment, hair texture and color, physiognomy, etc. the different gorn might also just be all the same species but just geographically (or planetarily) isolated for hundreds of generations.
Could be different stages of development !
I think the new gorn are great as someone who recently got into star trek, I'd suggest though that the CME could be either be useful in their attack strategy as interference, or related to powering their technologies. Alternatively it could be biologically beneficial to their young to be born under a CME, helps them mature faster or something. Or you could go the route of it being religious/spiritual to them, for example a gorn born under a solar storm is seen as the ideal.
Any of these explanations would work for me though
@TrekCentral Perhaps it relates to high cosmic/gamma radiation and the Puget Sound was attacked in a region of space (or the breeding planet was) matching that criteria (not necessarily CME). Similarly with the colonists attacked near a black hole which emit lots of radiation. There was a similar ion/radiation problem on the planet Peregrine crashed affecting transpor, although they could also suggest that those gorn were more easily defeated by the Enterprise crew due to the fact it wasn't near a CME/black hole/gamma radiation source (not ideal Gorn growth conditions)
You have to a knowledge that they did not have the animatornics technology back then
Why are most of the FEDERATION ships named after USA places and battles?
Ok here's a question, how is it possible for these new XenoGorn to create anything more complicated then a stone axe? In light of what we have seen so far,regarding their behaviour as a species?
As a matter of fact, how do they even exist, if,according to their reproductive cycle, only the strongest survive? Singular. Using other species as incubators?
How does that make any sense whatsoever, from a evolutionary perspective?
Thank you. It does not. They could never create a warp drive powered ship as seen in TOS. Another example of the lazy writing on this series.
@@SteveBrant55 Basically yes it is indeed lazy writing and not the first time where events don't make any sense whatsoever, like hiding at the center of a brown dwarf, or using a spinning stellar black hole for gravity boost, ignoring the ridiculous tidal forces and temperatures at the accretion disc!
I mean I get it,we need new enemies, besides the Borg, which have been done to death at this point, but if you want to make the Gorn as the new antagonists, then they should have taken inspiration, by the way a favourite lizzid people are been portrait in star trek online, as a species with a history, culture, traditions and a civilization,that would allow individuals or groups, to innovate in fields like mathematics, physics, engineering etc etc, thus giving them the opportunity to create a space fairing civilization, in a way that is plausible.
Acting like feral beasts is just stupid!
I thought the same. The SNW's Gorn are "Gorn", IMO, in the same sense where pigs and dogs are Earthlings. That is, they are just utility animals used by their intelligent, humanoid masters.
Ditto here. Reptilian discrimination. ( Sorry to bring that up but seriously!)
Using warm bodies as incubators isn't illogical or make no evolutionary sense. Multiple species do it. And reptiles benefit from heat for their eggs, any breeder will tell you they will put snake eggs under a heat lamp for the best results.
Yes Halo Elite!!! I thought the same thing
As the name Hegemony suggests the government is run by the group whose dominant, so are the SNW Gorn the dominant race and the TOS & later versions subserviant during this period of time?
The new Gorn. Hands...rather, claws down. LOL!!!
At this point canon consistency with a 60 year old show doesnt bother me. Retcons have been happening in star trek forever.
You should’ve had a Gorn counter in the corner.
Take a shot of Romulan Ale everytime we say Gorn ;)
- Jack
Yes, it was The Gorn in both episodes but in two diffrent timelines. Sorry to burst the bubble of anyone who still thinks that SNW, Discovery, Lower Decks, or Prodigy all take place in same timeline as TOS and the rest. Aside from all the design, character, and plot contradictions that have occurred up until now, the "in-universe" explanation of Romulans screwing around with the timeline and moving the Eugenics wars make it different. Just the mere fact of having Gorn in this episode COMPLETELY contradicts the whole premise of "Arena". Its two separate timelines, end of story.
Here's my headcanon to make sense of the Gorn, they're a fast evolving species. Starting off looking more lizard like fron ENT, Kelvin TImeline, and later SNW, but soon evolving to more humanoid by the time of TOS, or there's at least 2 species of Gorn, Savage Gorn as we see in Kelvin and SNW sentient but more instinct driven yet more agile, and Civilized Gorn who can still be violant but sacrifice speed for strength and durability.
SNW is like 5 to 15 years before TOS... no species would change that fast.
@@nyetloki You never know, I did giv the option for the Gorn to either evolve or there to be maybe 2 species, a more savage stereotypically lizard like form, and a more Humanoid bipedal form that's more sentient. Hey They're the ones who fucked this up.
I just assumed Arik Soong geneticly modified the Gorn race.
hey yall I'm a fan/subscriber of the channel but if you're gonna use my gorn art in your thumbnail I think it would be kind to link where you found it in the description 🤷🏻♂
Hello! Which bit of artwork is yours? The left or right image?
- Jack
@@TrekCentral The baby gorn on the right side in the Enterprise's conference room, that's my baby boy!
I think we just have to accept that at this point, canon is no longer consistent (if it ever was). Not just regards the Gorn but many other things. There just isn't one single consistent canon any more and perhaps there never was.
The Temporal Cold War and the Suliban changed everything.
SNW is not in the same time-line as TOS, so it doesn't violate canon.
@@ambulocetusnatans We can infer that yes, but there are still other inconsistencies. Why does the Constitution-class look the way it does in SNW but still looks like the original TOS version in Picard? Similar thing with the Klingons, which still look like the TNG version in Picard but not in Discovery and SNW. So it isn't just a single altered timeline, the on-screen evidence suggests that Picard and Discovery / SNW are in different timelines to each other. Yet the showrunners say they're the same timeline, but what we see on screen just isn't consistent with that. We can infer that multiple different timelines now exist, but the showrunners say that isn't the case, so basically there's just no consistency across shows and no official explanation for it. But to be fair, even TOS wasn't always 100% consistent with itself across different episodes and seasons, so it isn't entirely a new thing. I think we just have to accept that each show is its own thing and although they are all Star Trek, they don't all fit into a 100% consistent canon across shows.
You know you don’t have this problem of having to explain difference in species appearances in the Star Wars universe. A Rodian from 1977 looks the same as a Rodian today. You can’t say that for the Gorn or Klingons! There’s a consistency there, at least for the various species depicted.
Star Wars started off as a big budget film, so the alien designs look good both back then and now.
The budget restrictions on the original TV series prevented them from doing the same thing for Star Trek.
So the redesigns for TMP and later TNG were understandable.
as a Star Wars fan, that's why Star Wars is so much more boring and restrictive than Trek. there's no leeway and room for creativity bc creators are scared to step on the toes of the classic stuff. i'd rather have messy canon with a wide variety of artistic voices and creative designs than a boring consistent one.
Canon inconsistencies aren't that big a deal so long as the retcon is cool, and, so far, the retcon has been really cool.
That being said, I think the easiest solution is that the Gorn Hegemony consists of several species, with the TOS Gorn representing the ruling species and the ones we keep running into in SNW and ENT as subspecies that aren't necessarily enslaved, per se, but enthralled. The TOS Gorn was fully sapient. The ones in SNW, while apparently sentient, are not fully sapient so it's not clear how they would've become technologically advanced. Maybe they're the Gorn equivalent of chimpanzees?
The one Kirk fought was explicitly a Gorn Captain. The ones from ENT/SNW could just be the more savage, less cerebral warrior cast.
I think these Gorm are genetically enhanced - like humans or Ilyrian
Let's see.
Guy in a rubber suit on TOS to fully rendered cgi creatures on SNW.
When is Paramount & CBS going to admit SNW is from a parallel timeline or the multiverse?
They're already playing fast & loose with other star trek timeline issues such as Khan Noonien Singh.
I certainly think they're all Gorn. Remember that the Kelvin "timeline" is essentially a separate universe, likely complete with its own Mirror Universe. I say this since the "Prime" Universe and its Mirror double have influenced each other either directly or through time like the Mirror Archer's Defiant (I wonder what they did without it in the Kelvin Mirror Universe?)
And if key events change and one of those key events is the genetic manipulation, adaptation, or evolution of a species, vast differences in appearances and behaviors can be observed.
I guess what I'm saying is it's likely the Gorn WILL change. How and why is up for debate, but since genetic engineering appears to be a key part of Strange New Worlds' focus, one might wonder if Number One is the key to the resolution of the Gorn threat.
Or, you've got 4, or 5 subspecies on the same planet. Evolution has worked differently for different planets. As an in universe explanation.
@@travisfoster1071 Also true. Recent Trek has been great at unifying the canon in these ways, like with the different looks of the Romulans. They all exist.
@@travisfoster1071 Sorry. Just one more thing. All I can say is that it seems the Gorn stay fairly the same between TOS and Lower Decks. This is why I think they'll change during Strange New Worlds.
Also my favorite moment with the Gorn was the Gorn Wedding.
Everything would be so much simpler if everyone would just admit that NuTrek isn't the same universe as TOS. Why the insistence? It's not like anyone who's a fan of NuTrek is particularly concerned about continuity, so why go through such gymnastics to try and rationalize a connection that no one really cares about anyway? Just let TOS be TOS and NuTrek be NuTrek and get on with telling whatever stories you want to tell.
"Because as always, if your talking about Trek, we'd love to make some money off it"
Think we have proven, that is not the case with our channel.
- Jack
@@TrekCentral You do good work Cap'n Jack I was just being a troll!!!
I actually watched the entire episode of the Arena from TOS because of reading the name of your video, I then watched your video immediately after watching the arena lol
Maybe the Gorn are like xenomorphs from Aliens. Part of their DNA comes from there host. Just a thought.
Maybe they're Teenage Mutant Ninja Gorn!
Will the the real slim gorn please stand up lol. Out of them all I like the Ent gorn, but don't see a reason they all cannot be from the same plant.
This whole video is all of SNW nightmare fuel condenser into 13 minutes.
Strange New Worlds does care about Star Trek canon. Stop trying to make everything fit! Uhura and Chapel have met T'Pring in SNW, yet in "Amok Time", she comes as a complete surprise. Uhura ask who T'Pring is, and Nurse Chapel is surprised when Spock says "She is T'Pring, my wife."
I like the new design in terms of looks, *BUT* . . . I don't like it AS the Gorn. I'd rather have these new CGI beasties be a completely different alien species. If it turns out that these new aliens aren't actually Gorn and it's all a big misunderstanding, that would be great. (If only to put an end to the prolific arguing and tortuous mental gymnastics people are going through to "explain" why these are now THE Gorn, and integrate all the drastic design changes over the years that are simply down to artistic ego and slapping an established, recognisable brand name onto them for Search Engine Optimization.)
I just can't stand retcons; they're like a big middle finger to longtime fans. "Thank you for your love and loyalty over the decades, now we're going to completely change things around and shame you for not liking the new version, because we don't actually care what the paying customers think." I grew up with the rubber-suited Gorn, I love that design, and it would be entirely possible to update that design with modern technologies and materials to make it look much more realistic without having to change the look a lot. I'm all for adding cool new things to the properties I enjoy; I just don't like massive sweeping changes that we are told we HAVE to accept.
But somebody always has to come along and try to "stamp their own name" on the things you love, and change it until it's unrecognisable as the thing you've spent the last few decades of your life enjoying. And they didn't even do it in an original manner, this time. The "New Gorn" are just Xenomorph (Alien) monkey-lizards (Star Wars) with Yautja thermal-vision (Predator).
You know who handled the Gorn really well in the modern era? IDW comics, in their "Alien Spotlight: Gorn" issue. Very nicely-written story, with some stylish artwork, highly recommended reading. They barely changed the design of the Gorn, apart from making them a bit taller, more massive, and less rubber-suit-y, and portrayed them as cold, practical, calculating, and brutal (but highly intelligent) beings who, more than anything, want what is best for the Gorn Hegemony. And if that means callously winnowing out the weaker members of their species through arduous survival challenges, or showing mercy and rendering aid to a Starfleet crew that crashed on their planet (even if only so it makes them look good to outsiders), it's all the same to them.
I think there's too much over thinking. You have to remember, they had to use their imagination back in the original series when coming up with alien species. Prosthetic tech back then isn't what it is today, let alone CGI being a thing that it wasn't back then either. I don't think there's different versions of the Gorn, I think it's just you need to use your imagination a little more when viewing older episodes.
in Strange New Worlds those are not Gorn, they are Xenomorphs.
They reminded me of the Magogs in Andromeda))
The best Gorn was in Star Trek Enterprise!
The new Gorn are nothing but Alien knockoffs. From the way they are born to the way their space suits are designed.
perhaps they are similar like in the book blindsight, species that intelligent but not consious/selfaware, the book argues one can still build advanced tech without consiousness..
the gorn in snw in the ev suit seemed more docile, why not kill spock right away, instead just looking at him and growling.... i know its just fiction but still, suspencion of disbelief got me out
humans have different body types; tall, short, fat, slim, etc. Why wouldn't other species be the same? Why shouldn't there be short, chubby Gorn, tall slender Gorn, tall chubby Gorn, etc
Trying to shoehorn SNW episodes in the the real Trek timeline is essentially a fool’s errand; In TOS, the Gorn were unknown to the Federation, yet in SNW they are known, have fought with Starfleet, appear in multiple episodes-years before TOS, and with a back history. It makes no sense. SNW writers need to stop cannibalizing ideas from TOS…. and Alien.
I sort of dislike the new Gorn, But perhaps the Gorn can just be said to be from a part of the galaxy that is dominated by reptilian life forms instead of humanoid. And perhaps Several different species of reptilians make up the hegemony that we call the Gorn.
It seems like “Try it & see how it goes” mentality. And if that doesn’t work, we’ll try something else. I get the need to “make new monsters & aliens” to keep pace with audiences. But unless you’re dealing with an iteration that’s proprietary to its creator of the costume, then it’s just NIHism.
Ugh I hate they are made to be xenomorphs
If SNW is taking place in the Kelvin Universe, what would be unique is, if it was found out the Gorn were at war with the Doctor Who one time use alien. The Wirrn.
They could go one of two ways of having them meet the iconic Doctor.
1: The Trevor Martin alternate 4th Doctor, or Richard E. Grant alternate 9th Doctor. Claiming these two are from the Kelvin Timeline.
2: 2nd-6th Doctors from the Prime Universe not only cross over, but it's revealed the Plexiglass incasing the Time Rotor of the TARDIS would give off a faint differing hue, depending on what Alternate Universe they were in. Or the complaints within would do the same. While Pin Marking where the TARDIS crossed through the Multiverse-Corridor.
The Gorn, as portrayed in the new Star Trek Strange New World series, would be completely incapable of technology of any kind, let alone technical means of transportation, least of all starships. Just ridiculous, really.
As building a starship would require vast amounts of knowledge, insight and - most of all - cooperation, a species like the Gorn would be doomed to fight out their primal rivalries on the ground, never having the mental wherewithall to be able to rub two sticks together.
yep. 1966 rubber version in the show vs 2023 version. (1960s vs 2023 ok ) Not all upset they look different or story of them changed. I always heard mention and curious to see what the show expands. I support the change.
Seems strange the horn weren’t minted in next TNG.
Yikes. Definitely not the Star Battles / Fed and Empire Gorn.
That dinosaur species from voyager aren't reptiles because dinosaurs aren't reptiles!
not all reptiles are dinosaurs, but all dinosaurs are reptiles, as far as i know
@@luciaceba4640 actually dinosaurs were warm blooded, reptiles are cold blooded.
So dinosaurs couldn't have been reptiles.
@@bigfootwalker5399 I have no idea if your are being serious or not, but if you are I really want to know where you read that they weren't reptiles (I mean, "saurus" literally means lizard). Yes dinosaurs were most likely warm-blooded because their modern descendant are, but as of 2023 they are still classified as reptiles.
Also, your argument that "reptiles are all cold-blooded so dinosaur can't be reptile" kind of fall flat when we've discovered back in 2016 that at least 1 species of warm-blooded reptile does exist. Tegu are generally cold-blooded, but the Argentinian black and white tegu can raise their temperature to 10°C (50°F) above the surrounding temperature at night. It's specific to a certain time of years, but them having this ability at all classify them as a warm-blooded lizard.
For transparency, I didn't know about Tegu until I saw your comment. I learned something new today so thank you for that. That being said, it took me like 5 minutes to found out about them and double check the information with other sources so I'm not sure why you didn't.
Im of the opinion that the Gorn we see in SNW are a subspecies, warrior caste, or genetically engineered soldiers that the Hegemony lost control over. At least I hope so as I hate the idea of the Gorn as bad guys its such a cliche at this point.
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