QUICK Update on Part 2 - it is almost finished - sorry for the delay. I will not make a failed commitment, but will make channel posts on progress! I HOPE to finish before having to go out of town for thanksgivining and release on the friday after, failing that I am sure I will have it up by the beginning of December. Remember you can also get insider WIP at patreon.com/resurrected
@oliverewarthopkins7818 there is a reason where you want to capture an undamaged enemy ship and destroy it. Destroying it would be easy, but forcing them to capitulate without a fight needs vastly superior firepower.
I’ve always seen the reason why that one romunlan commander was actively threatening the enterprise with 2 dedridex is because it took 2 ships to get a clean kill. So a fair fight between the two ship I always seen as a slug fest that the Dedridex limped home from. The alpha strike is required for a total victory. Without it it’ll be a drawn out match that normally would result in additional ships being drawn to the battle. Basically with the alpha strike high chance of willing with minor issues without it the ship would be returning home in a weaken state.
I agree. I think the Romulan battle doctrine focused heavily on trying to have an overwhelming tactical advantage before committing to a fight. That could be a swift fatal alpha strike or greatly outnumbering the enemy for a guaranteed victory. Once they lost that calculated advantage, they would rather disengage altogether than be forced into a more even, drawn out battle.
My understanding is Romulans place a heavy focus on preserving as much of their assets as they can. They're like risk averse investors: they'll commit their chips only if there's a clear cut return on investment, or if they have extensive insider information, hence all the spying.
I always found it weird that commander then retreated when 2 Klingon BOPs decloaked. Were two BOPs really enough to offset the assured victory calculations the commander had made?
The general consensus has always been that the Warbird had more firepower, but the Galaxy was more maneuverable. This hasn't always been confirmed by onscreen dialogue, let alone actual tactical demonstration, but let's assume it is so. Out of all the secondary sources out there, i have only ever considered ST TNG A Final Unity to even remotely try and simulate the operations of a Galaxy class with any authenticity and coincidentally, in that game Romulan Warbirds are the most often encountered enemies. In a standing match, they did seem to hit quite hard, and if one decides to just stand there a take the hits, the battle would not fair well for the Galaxy. The shields seemed somewhat comparable in overall strength, with the Galaxy holding perhaps slight advantage. All that being said, even though exact details are hard to come by, i think a "fair" match, in which both ships are fully aware of each other, is going to be risky affair. Neither side has a decisive advantage, and who ever wins, isn't going to come out unscathed. The winner will probably who ever managed to pull their own A game, while preventing the other side from doing so. In conclusion, factors like crew training and performance, as well situational and environmental conditions, would probably prove decisive. But, this is most likely not going to be a fair fight. At least i don't see you as portraying it that way. That means the Warbird is going to make a full "Alpha Strike" on a completely unprepared or at the very best, a Yellow Alert crew and ship. Given that it already has superiority i firepower (at the very least beam firepower), this should give it enough of a head start, to either cripple or severely damage the Galaxy, up to a point they either surrender, flee or are destroyed. I think there's an objective reason why on the few occasions where we meet them, the Romulan commanders are rather smug about the way they could handle the Enterprise. And if we presume that the Romulans are heavily outnumbered by the Federation - Klingon alliance at the start of TNG, this makes a lot of sense. They would put all their eggs into the Quality over Quantity basket, and their ships would rely on first strike capability, in order to even the odds. However.... does that make the Warbird the superior ship? In practice, they seem to be more of "hot air balloons" then the unstoppable juggernauts of indiscriminate destruction. Especially during the Dominion War. Despite being overwhelmingly larger then anything the allies had at that point, they don't really seem to be more survivable. If anything, they appear more fragile then the Galaxies. Not by a huge margin perhaps, but enough for it to show. What does that mean? Well, we can't know for sure, but it could be a number of factors, or a combination of all of them. For one, their shields might be initially as strong or good at preventing damage as those of a Galaxy class, but, they may recharge at lower rates. Or buckle more easy under prolonged fire and use. Or that by the time of the war, the Federation have improved their shielding much more. On the other hand, despite being several times the volume, it might as well be that the internal layout is much more prone to system failure of catastrophic character. Or their construction methods produce less sturdy hull plating and bulkheads. Or that the ships isn't all that well ARMORED at all. Come to think of it, i don't think it is. So, while it's "Hit points" may be more numerous that that of a Galaxy, it also takes far more damage from each strike that passes through its defenses. This would make it very vulnerable to Dominion weapons, or weapons will larger "area of effect" like torpedoes. Finally, the plasma torpedoes that we never see in tactical use in TNG or DS9. I'm not saying they don't have any, i just think they don't use them for a reason. Or if they use them, at this stage of development, they are no longer the terror weapons they were back in TOS era. Either way, i don't think this would change the final outcome of a Romulan surprise attack. It just means their ship is more of a glass cannon, and that speaks volumes on the design philosophies of both powers. Romulans favor highly specialized ships, to a point they are more of a one trick pony, and rely on surprise and terror tactics. Federation ships are more generally useful and more flexible all around. Finally a few words on the Galaxy class. We often count all the phaser strips as some sort of weapon specification, when want to quantify it's offensive capabilities, but those strips aren't really created equal. I will not go into the Technical Manual, as it's numbers were never directly brought into canon, but even without it, even we assume there's no difference in power between them, they still aren't. Those two big wide arcs on the ventral and dorsal sides of the saucer section, are by far going to be used the most, simply due to the coverage they offer. The other strips are mostly situational. Unless we are fighting surrounded, but this isn't such a case. So i think we are better off coming with some other metric of firepower, at least for the beam weapons on the Enterprise. EOL P.S. Sorry for the long post, but at the time i was working a hardpoint model for Bridge Commander to best illustrate both ships, and as a result still have many unresolved dilemmas i was eager to share. Good video, keep making them!
Regarding the maneuverability issue, one of the problems the Romulins faced in the dominion war was that their targeting computers had a hard time keeping up with the jem-hadar fighters. We don't know exactly why this was, but if we assume that it translates to an individual starfleet ship maneuvering then that further multiplies the gap. Essentially Romulin doctrine relies heavily on their cloak. Without it their ships start to show pretty significant gaps in development. They also rely on their singularity power source for longer range, but their speed suffers from them. Which means that a galaxy class could out run them. And that's multiplied by the use of closer range weapons utilized by the Romulins. There's also one more thing to consider, and that's that the Romulin ship is more expensive. They simply have fewer of them than the federation does. In the dominion war the romulins started the war with I think 4 fleets. The federation by contrast had about a dozen, and the klingons had around 8 or 9. So maybe it's not fair to view the fight as a 1v1.
@@DIEGhostfish Mostly, not every Warbird got outfitted with the Anti-Polaron Shielding. Imagine being a crew member on those ships during the Dominion War…
@@RandyLRhoades By the time they joined the war in earnest they all had to have it. It's just nobody had it in the failed attempt to wipe out the founders.
Before you even said it I noticed right off that you had the weapons emitting from the correct places on the ship! It made me so happy! Star Trek has a long history of weapons fire being emitted from the wrong place.
Regarding the warbird.. It's artificial singularity is going to have literal astronomical mass with of it's inherent issues. Naturally we know about Trek's gravity manipulation from deck plating and moving DS9 in it's pilot episode. So if you're aiming for "balance" or "sciency-ness" for why the warbird wouldn't just rofl-stomp everything, then we can invoke Conservation of Energy. Any energy expended to reduce the effective mass of a singularity is directly proportional to the amount of energy that can be extracted from it. Therefore it follows that the Warbird can be either manouverable or firing it's weapons but never both, full power at the same time.
This would invariably track with the Star Trek method of power and energy diversion technique that seems to be common in the franchise so I think you are on too something.
Your point is interesting. And probably accurate. However.... We know it's an "artificial" singularity. We know from "Timescape" that artificial singularities do not act the same way as natural singularities via the alien creature whose young cannot gestate in an *artificial* singularity. We do not know *how* they're different, only *that* they're different. We also know it's a "quantum" singularity. So the mass is relatively small to get the event horizon down to the size where quantum gravity plays a part. We do not know exactly how small that is. However, it's probably not "astronomical". Indeed, if my calculations are correct, a quantum singularity with Hawking radiation of the power needed for the warp 9 regime should have a radius on the order of 10e-21 meters. If such a singularity were due to its mass alone (and I doubt it is) it would have a mass on the order of 10,000 metric tonnes. That's about how much deuterium the Enterprise-D has in her tanks. This makes me suspect the mass of the singularity is not a huge issue.
As for the Romulan singularity core, the mass of the black hole inside it should completely dwarf the rest of the ship. A black hole with the mass of Mt Everest for example, would be the size of an atom. I presume that the Romulans discovered how to contain the singularity in its own static warp shell to reduce its relative mass, because they'd need a black hole with the mass of a small moon to have enough gravity to attract other matter. I also presume that they generate warp plasma by feeding matter into the singularity to create an accretion disk that would generate plasma that they would then siphon off to power the ship.
That would only give them a matter/energy conversion rate of around 16 percent. Maybe higher if the Use 24th century tricks, but it's inevitably going to be less than matter/antimatter in terms of efficiency. That's probably why Romulan ships have lower speed than federation ones, and start to strain the engines at 9.3. That and probably the need to keep up a second warp field as you suggest.
Hypothetically speaking, you can squeeze any amount of matter bellow the limit for it to become black hole, but the longevity of that hole would be shorter if it's smaller. However, the power you get from Hawking Radiation would be higher. Also, there are feeding problems with tiny black holes, as matter gets so compressed and as a result so hot, it doesn't really get to fall inside the event horizon, but rather it's spewed out. I would guess, from a fictional universe perspective, maintaining a fine balance of such a system is no easier, and perhaps more difficult then maintaining a stable M-AM reaction in the warp core.
@@ilejovcevski79That raises the in-universe question over why the Romulans embraced a singularity energy source in the first place. Of course the behind the scenes reason is to provide a exotic energy source for the plots of the TNG episodes “The Face of the Enemy” and “Timescape”. Perhaps the artificial quantum singularity depicted is a radically different type of singularity from a black hole as we know it.
@@Maphisto86 perhaps so. I one of my head-canon explanations use to be that perhaps, they don't have enough dilithium production of their own, and as they were rather isolated until the start of TNG, they couldn't get enough of it by trade. Another possible explanation i liked to consider is the size of their ships and the sheer need for power generation that a cloaking device would need to screen such a large ship from sensors, while going warp 6 at the same time. Micro-black holes are very unstable yes, but they also radiate huge amounts of energy, possibly just what the Romulans needed with the D'Deridex. Maybe it is a combination of both, or something third entirely.
@@ilejovcevski79 Trek never explained any of this. Only that one episode with Troi even talked about their quantum singularity. Other episodes talked about their dilithium mines and use of antimatter. So who knows.
Hey Resurrected Starships, the Enterprise-D you feature in this video has the impulse engine on the stardrive section illuminated as well the two impulse engines on the saucer section, these impulse engines on the saucer section are only used when the primary hull is separated from the secondary hull.
I think it’s important to note that by the time of the Dominion war, the warbirds were getting wrecked and the Romulan fleet was taking devastating losses while the Galaxy class was holding its own. Perhaps this dosen’t mean the galaxy was more powerful but perhaps speaks to the shortcomings of the warbird design
Yeah the Dominion war upgraded Romulan ships just seemed weak. Maybe it all came down to them not having quantum torpedoes, which was a major upgrade for Starfleet ships.
We didn't see a full fight for either case. It would have been great. I think losses on the part of the Romulans might be due to a need to rethink their tactics. The dominion was good as seeing through a cloak. Being stealthy and dictating battle was core to Romulan tactics. An admiral complaining about access to repair saw O'Brien note their ships weren't taking heavy damage and weren't being prioritized.
Enterprise for me but just.. all power transferred to phasers and torpedoes set at maximum yield..in the episode defector we know the Romulan Admiral gave Picard technical information on the warbird, Strengths, weaknesses etc. that knowledge can be used to their advantage like they did with the Borg Cube in First Contact..
That was Commander Tomalak. I do not recommend however transferring all power to weapons however for this however. I recommend using 2/4ths Engine Power and 1/4th shield and Weapons Power and Out Maneuvering to the more blind spots of the D’Deridex. Preferably the top side of the Warbird where the Shield Generator would be according to most sources. Then it’s a Toe to toe slugging match with you having an advantage.
D'Deridex is tactically strong, but strategically weak. In a one on one fight the D'Deridex could beat any ship the federation has, but I strongly doubt that the Romulan fleet could keep with the Star Fleet in a open war. The D'Deridex is an insane concentration of resources and it really hurts the Romulans when they lose one.
One thing that always comes to mind is that Picard seemed pretty confident that the Enterprise supported by 3 Birds of Prey would ensure that Tomalak wouldn't survive the destruction of the Enterprise against 2 Warbirds in "The Deserter". That's not a huge amount of extra firepower in what looks to be an all out exchange of fire. Granted, he may have been bluffing, but Tomalak does seem to take it seriously. I'd still take it as a sign that a Warbird either is not as tough as it may first appear on size. While 3 K'vort "Battle cruisers" were quite the match for the "War" Enterprise-D "Battleship" in "Yesterday's Enterprise", we also don't know that any or all of the 3 depicted in "The Deserter" are K'Vorts nor if there's significant differences in their power between the two timelines. And the Enterprise is tied down defending the Enterprise as the Enterprise crawls back into the anomaly, so it undoubtedly wasn't fighting at full capacity. I guess the question is, how much firepower would you judge 3 Birds of Prey as bringing to the table and how does that place the Warbird's abilities in order to make Picard's threat to Tomalak realistic? Personally I suspect that it IS likely 3 K'vorts and that in combination they bring just above the firepower of a Galaxy, which means that Warbird vs Galaxy is roughly even. Worth noting that even with the Warbirds having the opportunity to judge the situation and scan as much as they would like, they didn't detect 3 Birds of Prey cloaked near the Enterprise. Arrogance or a lack of capability? Similarly, while Picard also seems hesitant to engage a single Warbird one on one, that to me suggests that it is at least close enough that the Enterprise would be crippled if it won at best - he is never deterred from his actions by one. And while we do see individual Warbirds confront the Enterprise, they often seem to be more playing chicken with Picard. I'd suspect that one on one it's going to be a rough fight for either ship to come out with much fight left in them - maybe just intact enough to surrender to the next ship to arrive. I'd also bet that a lot of the hesitance is more about sparking a war with the Romulans than anything else. Another thing to consider is that the Romulans may be using some form of spaced armor or other construction method that leaves a lot of "empty" space within the Warbird without actually increasing it's mass by too much compared to the size difference.
The bird of prey model was used in TNG season 3 as a placeholder for "very powerful generic Klingon ship", because the Vor'cha model had not been built yet. That's also the reason why the K'vort models appear to be so huge, because they were meant to be big cruisers that could take on a Warbird. After TNG season 4, the bird of prey went back to being depicted as a tiny scout ship/destroyer. I really wish the TNG remastered edition had replaced all the K'vort scenes from before season 4 with Vor'cha attack cruisers.
I kind of like the idea that the Romulans decided to build the super large D’Deridex Class to be the ship that effectively like a pair of stuffed trousers. Lol. But there is some truth to the idea the D’Deridex’s size is mostly crawlspace or empty space. If you look at the model or any of the deck plans you will. Notice that the inhabited part of the ship is all in the nose mostly.
I think the Romulans just prefer to fight when they know they have an overwhelming tactical advantage. That’s part of their battle doctrine. In “The Deserter” they probably calculated that two D’Deridex warbirds had an overwhelming chance of victory against a lone Galaxy class. One could overpower the Enterprise with difficulty but two was a guaranteed stomp. The surprise of the flanking Klingon warships upset that calculated overwhelming advantage. Even if they knew they could still likely win (which I think they probably could have) it simply wasn’t the Romulan way to get into a more even fight that wasn’t on their terms and possibly risk taking heavy losses. So, they disengaged.
@@Gunnar001 It’s a possibility, the episode was actually called The Defector but even so the context is the same. It does make sense that they would be squeamish about tactical advantages, afterall they were one of the few factions to only develop warp drive until the 23rd century making such FTL Tech relatively brand new to them, which put them militarily and technologically disadvantaged compared to the rest of the galaxy. It makes sense mentally that even with their large starships they are worried about taking heavy losses. Perhaps the Few D’Deridexes we seen on screen were all the Romulans had at that point. Would make sense why we don’t see them come Nemesis.
In many ways for a cloak dependent fleet bigger is not better IMO. If anything I think its the opposite. The bigger a cloaked ship is the easier for a blind fire anti-cloak fire pattern like we saw in Nemesis, and given who the patterns were named after I believe its likely the tactic predates TNG, to score hits and the D'Deridex still has to decloak to fire so any damage taken while cloaked is damage taken without the possibility of counterarttack. I've never really been fond of Batteleship or Dreadnought type craft, and I count both ships as this in general but if I'm picking a ship and expect to use my cloak in battle I would want something closer a Romulan counterpart to the Defiant over a D'Deridex any day. Something small, well armed, and hard to hit by blind fire. One thing that's interesting about Romulan Torpedoes looking like Green Photons is there was a very old, and now discredited Star Trek book which I believe came out between the first two movies focusing on spacecraft design and space travel history between the 20th Century and the very early TOS movie era, and I believe it stated Starfleet created its first Photon Torpedoes by analyzing combat data from the Earth-Romulan War or some of the skirmishes leading to it and reverse engineering the torpedoes the Romulans were using at the time. Edit: One weakness of Plasma torpedoes is they can be shot down by Phasers and tend to be much larger, and slow thus being easier to hit based on what we saw in Balance of Terror. The main reason the 1701 took a hit in Balance of Terror was because the torpedo attack was launched while her Phasers were offline. Edit 2: Also while a D'Deridex might have more Torpedoes and Torpedo Launchers unless both types can be fired from the same Launchers she probably has less of either type, or one type of Launcher significantly outnumbers the other.
One thing I think you’re understating about the D'Deridex regarding the Stealth and Detection capabilities is that it is a Romulan ship. I have every reason to believe it has detection and monitoring equipment on-par (or even surpassing) a Galaxy-class, but where a Galaxy-class has its scanning equipment calibrated for exploration, the D'Deridex would be calibrated towards clandestine, covert, and counter-ship operations. The Romulans are basically warrior-spies; to think their capital ship doesn’t have a top-of-the-line electronic-surveillance suite is to fatally underestimate them.
10:32 go watch Dracinifels video on Naval Fortifications, its about an hour long, but its a great listen. In it, they mention that Naval Fortifications tend to use outdated weapons, since if you are going to use new weapons, might as well put them on a ship. The same would go here. Have older torpedoes laying around? Stick them in planetary defense
We do know from the episode "Tin Man" that a Romulan Warbirds disruptors can reduce the Enterprise D's shields by 70%. We do not know if the Enterprise can do the same to the Romulans.
Star Fleet prides itself on it's shields, given time or opportunity they could adapt. There is no reason to believe the galaxy class first edition would stand a chance at cracking their shields outright, but given how we've seen abuse of shield systems work for all factions in other episodes and shows the secondary damage from a galaxy class absolutely dumping everything it has into Romulan shields would be like the 4th of July in the engineering sections.
@@ArturiusMaxwell Well...we don't actually know because it never happened on screen. The most firepower from a Galaxy class that we've seen on screen was the time the enterprise fired on that illusion "Husnok" ship . And that was a fake ship that couldn't be damaged.
I am of the opinion that they should be able to, my reasoning: In the TNG episode: A Matter of Time, the Enterprise was able create an artificial Super Volcano on an M Class Colony world to take it out of an Ice Age of sorts, there was great risk of it destroying the colony and the surface of the planet so Tachyon beams were used to minimize the destructive power of the Phaser. Proving that a General Order 24 was feasible for a Galaxy Class Starship to do on their own. Meanwhile in DS9, The Die is Cast: a D’Deridex along with a few Cardassian vessels were attempting a General Order 24-like Planetary Bombardment of the Founder homeworld; 30% of the planetary surface was destroyed in the opening volley yet it can be proven and backed up that the homeworld was not destroyed or unsalvagable and no Artificial volcanoes or anything were created in the bonbardment destruction. To be fair and honest: we don’t know exactly if the Enterprise’s Phasers were tuned to the lowest but most reasonable for the job setting to do that feat (I presume it would be all things considered) but we do know that both the Founder’s Homeworld and the Human Colony world in question were both Class M worlds of relatively similar Earth size, meaning the Planets were probably very close to one another in scale and we also do not know how much the D’Deridex contributed to the 30% of the opening volley, but I do think it remains clear that the D’Deridex required help for something that ultimately the Galaxy Class Enterprise was capable of on it’s own; meaning regardless of what went into the technical manuals: The show itself has the Enterprise displaying much more powerful firepower than the D’Deridex. It’s close enough to be a fair fight but the Galaxy Class edges overall. But the problem is; how does one rectify Worf’s statement of The D’Deridex Class having greater firepower than the Enterprise? Well one way to look at it is that Worf may have meant that the D’Deridex has much more variances of firepower in the amount it can fire at once, it has Disruptor Turrets, Beams, Volleys, multiple different Torpedo types bases on best guesses based on past Romulan Weaponry experiences and even Tractor Beams can be weaponized similarly to the Borg (people sleep on the weaponization possibilities Star Trek Tractor Beams have in general).
I think a confrontation between these ships would ultimately depend on the specific circumstances. Is the enterprise unaware, then the first attack from romulans manages to use its cloaking device effectively to launch a surprise attack it could overwhelm the Enterprise. On the other hand, if Captain Picard and his crew can detect and counter the warbird's cloaking tactics, they might leverage the Enterprise-D's advanced systems and maneuverability to outfight the Romulans. If the enterprise has time, then i think the more experience crew can defeat the romulans. (I mean, they did defeat the Borg). But as i stated, would ultimately depend on the specific circumstances.
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@@WhoRunBarterTown The far left "progressive" freak outs are already one thing that tens of millions of real Americans wanted. So far wea re getting EXACTLY what we wanted. Lower fuel prices, controlled inflation, secure southern border, more police funding are right around the corner! Enjoy!
I remember when I was a kid watching this episode with my Dad. he said WOW that thing was much bigger!! personally insulted I say NO, it was just the scale difference of the camera shot!!! LOL
I am personally very comfortable with them being basically equals on paper and likely a 1v1 fight would lead to mutual destruction or both being crippled to the point where neither could continue fighting. The Galaxy has a lot more scientific and engineering bells whistles and tricks but the D'Deridex has better firepower, stealth capabilities, armor and versatility in weaponry. We see many of D'Deridex class during the Dominion war in wings alongside the galaxy class. This to me shows the D'Deridex class is more than capable of holding its own which is more than enough reason to suggest they were at least just as capable and effective. Some have pointed out that in the TNG episode "the Defector" that the 2 D'Deridex's back down being surrounded by Klingon ships. However its important to note 1. we dont know what class they were 2.Tomalak likely wouldn't want to get the Klingons involved in a war and 3. They were outflanked and likely at that point evenly matched at the very least only a complete fool would want to fight in that situation no matter how powerful your ship is. There are two negatives about the Galaxy class we do know. It's warp core was very vulnerable to damage and sabotage and the onboard computer as shown many times in the series was very susceptible to being hacked, attacked with viruses or having bugs. Though not important in a firefight , its important if we consider the opponent. The Romulans who are obsessed and masters of, intelligence and espionage these are things I can very easily imagine they would try and exploit and use these to their advantage.
If the enterprise has any chance of survival, its going to be in the skill of its captain and willingness to retreat. A more stubborn captain who chooses to stay and fight means cretin destruction, but one who is more wise may choose to focus on repairing engines if they survive the surprise attack and choose to outrun the D'Deridex. A more crafty captain could also find a way to outsmart the romulans, such as a surprise all out attack after feigning surrender and getting the romulans to lower their shields to use transporters to board the enterprise, or using some sort of stellar object to their advantage. But in a strait up slugging match the enterprise will be slaughtered if not outright destroyed by the first surprise attack, as the galaxy class is shown to fold like wet tissue paper once its shields are down in DS9.
The way I've always seen it, ever since I was a kid, was that the Galaxy and D'Deridex were opposites of the D-7/Constitution. Where the Constitution was much more likely to beat a D-7, given commanders and crews of equal skill, the D'Deridex would be much more likely to beat a Galaxy, again given commanders and crews of equal skill. At worst maybe a pyrrhic victory for the D'Deridex. On-screen incidents don't always make it sound this way, but Picard isn't your average captain and the Romulans seem to know that. D'Deridex is a large slow moving warship designed to decloak and slug it out with one or more smaller enemy vessels and come out well enough to keep fighting or return for repair. While the Galaxy is a smaller, faster ship with most of its hull space and power dedicated to science and exploration, but still has enough left over to pack a punch when it needs to. With some of the unorthodox schemes the Enterprise comes up with to get out of danger, one can certainly see why a Romulan commander might hesitate to engage the Enterprise in a fair 1on1 fight when they might otherwise do so with another Galaxy. I do also have a bias toward the D'Deridex. Its my favorite alien ship in Trek and the Romulans are my favorite aliens.
Knowing Picard one surprise he might have is his contacts. Remember in that one episode when the Enterprise and those two Romulan War birds and brought three Klingon ships with him. Knowing Picard he would make sure to have help.
There are 3 things to consider in your scenario - 1) Plot Armor: The hero ship and crew ALWAYS prevail even if its unrealistic. :-) Also consider the situation that you are going to be placing them in. If it is a peaceful situation then the Enterprise could be severely damaged before they can fight back long enough to run away or call for help. 2) Crew Capabilities: If you are going to pit this warbird against the Enterprise specifically, then you are going to have to consider the abilities of its crew, specifically Data, Geordi, Riker, Picard and Worf. All of these characters bring a unique edge and experience to the battle that would make the Enterprise a "unique" target to attack and destroy. Consider the following - Data can quickly analyze the situation; Geordi can quickly repair damage; Riker has "non-standard" tactical knowledge; Picard has years of experience an some tactical abilities and Worf is a tactical marvel who knows his way around weapons and defense. 3) Sensors: I believe that the Enterprise has far superior sensor abilities and would be able to ANTICIPATE a Romulan presence if they are in a situation where contact is expected. Just going into a situation knowing that the Romulans are possibly involved is enough to put the ship on alert status and we know that the ships sensors AUTOMATICALLY trigger a defense posture when it detects ANY enemy ship activity. We have seen this many times on screen where the ship goes to yellow or red alert at the slightest detection of any enemy ship. Extra - One more thing to consider in your "alternate timeline" is what is the "specific" benefit of the Enterprise's destruction? What do the Romulans gain and what do they lose as a result? The last time the Romulans destroyed a ship named Enterprise it brought two of its greatest enemies together against them. Is it worth it politically to destroy the Federation Flagship? Romulans according to Worf have no honor and strike from the back in the shadows. It would be a very bad move to attack and destroy the Enterprise in any scenario other than open warfare. Lastly, consider the "overall experience" of the crew and the condition the Enterprise you are wanting to pit your Romulan warbird against - is it the "freshman" crew of season 1 or the "senior" crew of season 7 or even the movie "Generations". Just a few thoughts you may want to consider. ;-)
Only saucer pod nebula's with other ships as help could detect warbirds though their cloak. Enterprise never stood a chance to detect anything in TNG or other galaxies in DS9. So point 3 is invalid @myronstoke3324
Just please remember the characters you're dealing with. I don't mean plot protection or anything like that. Just how they have faced no-win scenarios plenty of times each even before the first encounter with the D'Deridex. If you're going for ENTERPRISE vs D'Deridex then you have to take into account her crew, their decision making, their abilities, and their reactions under this sort of pressure.
First, THANK YOU for producing exactly what you say on your thumbnail. So many videos have become garbage over the last few years. Repetitions, non covered content thumbnails. Lies,*disclaimers and unsubstantiated opinions as well. 2nd. Great detail. Love the comparisons. And the graphics are fabulous.
The Romulan Warbird showed its age in DS9 while the Galaxy Class was uprated and kicked ass as a frontline ship in the Dominion War. TNG era they were evenly matched, Dominion War Era the Galaxy owns the Warbird.
I think of a fight between a D'deridex and the Enterprise D like a night fight between the Yamato and the Iowa. I think it's a compelling analogy. The Japanese were known for their highly developed night fighting training and abilities. They were even able to capitalize on this in a few instances. (Battle of Savo Island) It's unlikely, but conceivable that an alternate universe lone Yamato would have been able to surprise a lone Iowa at night. Cloaked in the darkness of night, terrain masked in an island archipelago, Yamato would have a chance at a tremendous alpha strike. However, the Iowa's speed, maneuverability, relatively advanced radar, and analog targeting computers would have allowed it to gain distance and pummel the Yamato from long range with accurate fire, where hits from Yamato's 18 inch guns would be possible but less likely. (Also, don't forget the US Navy's demonstrated superior damage control! ) The performance of the radar laid US guns at the Battle off Samar fooled Vice Admiral Takeo Kurita into thinking he faced larger ships than destroyers and escort carriers, such was the volume of on-target fire. (Unfortunately, though, real world US naval doctrine at the time would have had the Iowa close distance!) Using this analogy, the ST:TNG battle almost writes itself! Romans surprise the Enterprise D with an alpha strike. The Enterprise manages to recover and gain some distance. Starfleet doctrine against the D'deridex is to close to where sensors can defeat the cloaking enough to attempt to target vital systems. However, with the help of the bridge crew, Picard's tactical mind discerns that the Enterprise's maneuverability and sensor advantage can allow it to open the range, where the D'Deridex has to deactivate its cloak to keep up and range its weapons out to even hope to hit. The Romulan commander realizes that at that point, he will slowly get picked apart by the Enterprise at long range and eventually lose, so the Romulans retire.
15:10 Trade off is the flexture can be disrupted and collapse causing a complete loss of power for the ship which was seen on the first batches. They had to be towed back and their cores re started at a shipyard. It not like a warpcore you can eject. Neat lore.
50/50 Both ships are really strong, assuming we go by DS9 standards and not the paperweight of TNG where the shields break if you so much as sneeze in Engineering. I wanna give the benefit to D'deridex though buuut... No, it's 50/50 to me.
great video, i look forward to seeing the next part and how you think the battle goes! i always took the D'Deridex as a ship born of the Romulan's isolationist period, and was geared more for dealing with conquering and subjugating less advanced planets, the hollow space making it look even larger and more imposing than its already hefty mass would be. Later, after they had more interactions with the Federation and the rest of the galaxy they began developing the class of warbird like the Valdore from Nemesis, a battlecruiser designed to fight the best of the other major powers. on the quantum singularity engine, my take has been off of some old fanon from the 1970s that Romulan space was resource poor compared to Federation and Klingon space, fewer class-M planets, fewer dilithium deposits, and so they had to resort to creative alternatives like cloaking tech and devastating alpha strike weapons that are probably less effective in a prolonged battle. the QSE is a means they could almost get the same power as a Galaxy-class's warp core without any starship-grade dilithium. the down side is that the QSE is finicky and temperamental and may be more prone to problems than the tried and true matter/antimatter reaction. and when it goes wrong it really goes wrong. i agree with the observation that the Romulans knew it would take two D'Deridexs (D'Deridice?) to effectively kill a Galaxy-class, especially one with a top notch crew like the Enterprise. My take the Enterprise under Picard could take a D'Deridex, but a generic Galaxy-class with generic captain and crew, it's a 50/50 with an advantage to the Romulans if they manage a true surprise attack.
Well I don't favor the Galaxy's chances of winning, It also depends on the type of Commanders on each side. I don't believe for instance that Picard is a better Tactical Commander as is Captain Jerico who held command of the Enterprise for a short bit. But to help the Galaxy's chances they would have to be already in ready status to stand a chance against the first strike the D'Deridex can dish out. Jerico with advance warning that Romulans are going to be hostile soon would already be holding battle drills. Getting the shields up fast would be a must if the Galaxy Class would stand any chance. It is a Heavy Explorer Cruiser going against a Dedicated Warship after all
I think it stands a better chance than you might think, better Speed and Maneuverability should be on the Enterprise’s side; we have more evidence of greater Destructive Power from the Enterprise but the Romulan D’Deridex has more weapon variants. So it’s basically a Tank vs Aircraft battle of sorts. The Tank would do well to hit the Aircraft quickly and swiftly but the Aircraft must fly and maneuver unpredictably attacking the Tank ideally from the highest angle possible. Also don’t underestimate Picard’s tactical capabilities. He’s got a whole tactical maneuver named after him for a reason. While he prefers diplomacy he is fully capable of commanding a starship in battle and combat when necessary. The thing about Jellico is he was a try hard when it comes to starship command, changing up crew rotations in preparation for a battle that may not come brings it’s own risk flaws as well, battle drills can seldom truly prepare people for the real thing unless you use the holodecks which may consume power resources. He also didn’t know how to engage the crew and was admittedly a very bad diplomat; he was sort of the Anti-Picard; a man who was a diplomat at heart but knew how to tango when the going got tough and a competent commanding officer who knew what his crew was capable of, where as Jellico was a soldier who was only good at being such and not much else.
In Star Trek it tends to seem that flying around with defensive shields up all the time is not a thing because: [1] it drains too much power and [2] it's universally considered an act of open aggression. So IMHO a sneaky full alpha strike from a decloaking D'Deridex would be an instakill on most ships because you get smoked with your pants down. Especially since a cloaked ship can take its time aiming the weapons beforehand, and damaging a nacelle is basically a surekill (see TNG episode, Cause and Effect).
13:00 The problem with armour is that it is heavy, and the D'Deridex has a very large amount of surface area for ship of it's dimensions. Armour would make it very very heavy, which would mean greater power requirements and slower speed. I don't know if it would be worth it.
Hope we see a What IF analysis scenario which either Kirk, Janeway, Sisko or Picard encounters Grand Admiral Thrawn in the near future... A bit of food for thought and a suggestion
Considering that romulans rarely if ever engage in 1 vs 1 ship battles, they usually roll in packs of 3. The galaxy, negvar, and d'd all are more or less considered each others contemporaries. Galaxy is the maneuverability, negvar is tough, and D'd is firepower. With any of the 3 fighting 1v1 it could go either way based on the situation I don't think 1 would always best the other 100% of the time.
Space based threats start out bigger or stronger than they end up being later in the show - its a movie thing. The Galaxy class had the edge on a single Romulan warbird but could not handle two of them, without friends.
I love the Galaxy class but I think if the Warbird uses surprise to it's advantage it will win hands down. It's really is going to depend on the circumstances of the encounter. If the Galaxy class knows something is up then it may have a chance to survive but not win outright.
You’re going to get different outcomes based on when and how the two ships interact, as well as which captains are in charge. Going off of the canon encounters between Galaxies and D’Deridexes, we have a list of 11(ish) potential confrontations. _The Neutral Zone_ _The Enemy_ _The Defector_ _Tin Man_ _Data’s Day_ _Redemption pt. 2_ _Unification pt. 2_ _Face of the Enemy_ _Timescape_ _The Pegasus_ & During the Dominion War. Breaking these down, we actually only have 8. Prior to _The Neutral Zone,_ prior to _Q Who,_ prior to _The Defector,_ prior to _Data’s Day,_ prior to _Best of Both Worlds,_ prior to _Timescape,_ prior to the Dominion War, and after the outbreak of the Dominion War. Each of these events marks a significant point where either Starfleet or the Romulan Navy updated their vessels to better combat the other. Let’s start with scenario 1: prior to _The Neutral Zone._ At this point it’s hands down a Romulan victory. The few Galaxy class ships of this era were not combat-oriented, and were unprepared for their opponents. The warbird meanwhile was functionally undetectable, and had the advantage of knowing their enemy well. Even assuming a straight-up fight rather than a stealth attack, there’s simply no chance other than a daring escape to regroup with the fleet. However, we shouldn’t take the loss too hard. Starfleet *was* kind of being overthrown from within by evil Bluegills, and even _they_ had the sense to prepare against the Romulan threat after witnessing it, with every iota of data scanned by the _Enterprise_ being poured over in great detail, and with several refits the following year (several of which we saw or heard about). Scenario 2: between _The Neutral Zone_ and _Q Who._ Here the D’Deridex still likely takes it, as there wasn’t too much time for those new refits to see much use or get any practical testing. However, the Galaxy would have had its systems (to quote Captain Jellico) “Loaded for Bear” and while a stealth attack would leave it reeling, in a straight up fight the Galaxy would put up more fight than the Romulans would likely expect. It wouldn’t go down easy. Scenario 3: Between _Q Who_ and _The Defector._ This one definitely shortens the gap. After their encounter with the Borg and no longer bogged down by conspiracies, Starfleet had its ships ready to fight and to dance. The Galaxy Class’ phaser and photon torpedo armaments were notably improved, even above and beyond where they already were. And as Q rightly says: “…the Romulans, they’re nothing compared to [the Borg].” While Starfleet can’t close the gap instantly, it can shorten it. A stealth attack would still result in a Federation defeat, but in a straight-up fight the Galaxy is going to leave that D’Deridex bloody and weary. She will not go quietly into that night. Scenario 4: Between _The Defector_ and _Data’s Day._ This is where Starfleet caught up. With the information from a Romulan Admiral on their military, Starfleet was able to tailor their weapons and technology to fight the Romulans well. At this point I can see an easy landslide Galaxy victory. They have the specs, they have the data, they have the know-how to apply it. It was at this point they could probably see through the cloaking devices at least well enough to make use of the lack of shields, so a stealth strike isn’t on the table here unless the Romulan commander is suicidal. Straight up also leaves them at a disadvantage as the Galaxy has been beefed up constantly and now knows exactly where to beat its bigger foe. Which nearly leads into… Scenario 5: between _Data’s Day_ and _Best of Both Worlds._ A Romulan spy takes home decades of knowledge on the Federation. The tables flip and suddenly the Galaxy doesn’t stand a chance anymore. The cloaks have been redesigned to evade Federation sensors, and the Galaxy’s weak points are laid bare. At least, until Wolf 359. Scenario 6: between _Best of Both Worlds_ and _Timescape_ After Starfleet’s pounding, it kicked into high gear to replace the fleet and be ready for the next attack. An encounter here would likely be the most even the two sides can get, interestingly enough. The Galaxy at this point is armed to the teeth, with specialized shields, phasers, torpedoes, and sensors tough enough to beat the Romulans to a pulp if given the chance, and are on the hunt for that chance. The Romulans know how to hit them, and at least marginally sneak up on them still, but it’s still a coin-toss on if their less refined technology will fail them at a critical moment or if they’ll get a lucky break and knock the Galaxy’s shields down in time to land a knockout punch. Scenario 7: between _Timescape_ and the Dominion War buildup. This is also a close call, but oddly not for the same reasons as 6. By the time of _Timescape_ both nations seem to be at least relatively acquainted with each others’ tech, at least enough that they aren’t being coy about who can be on whose ship. While they still have some secrets, this is about as chill as the Cold War ever gets. The Galaxy and D’Deridex are about evenly matched now, with the former relying on a few, solid, reliable systems, while the latter has a massive amount of less dependable but replaceable and far more numerous systems (barring the cloak). A fight wouldn’t be quite so balanced as a coin toss though, as their differences would be most pronounced around now, which means it’s really up to the captains to decide who wins. Scenario 8: During and after the Dominion War. This is when we have to try and guess at how powerful the Galaxy became. The Romulans seem to have stagnated by this point, a bit offput by fighting an enemy who actually fights back (remember their specialty is in swift conquest of lesser enemies, and waiting out the strong ones to collapse. The Dominion could roll over the Alpha Quadrant if they had the supply lines, but they could only get in a small portion of their forces due to Wormhole shenanigans), while Starfleet was growing by leaps and bounds, showing the Galaxy they weren’t in a mood to fk around anymore. Remember, this is the Starfleet who could beat a Borg Cube *_conventionally._* Their new fleet and armaments challenged a cube at the edge of Federation space and wore it down to the point it was dying by the time it got to Sector 001, and just needed one good hit to kill it. The D’Deridex against a Galaxy of this era _might_ be able to win via a sneak attack, assuming they focused on taking out shields and the warp core on the first run (going for killing blows and not planning on taking anything intact), but in a straight fight or one where the Galaxy knows they’re coming? The Romulans had better hope they have backup, because the Feds were done playing games. “But that’s just how I personally feel about it. What do you think?” (Cookie for anyone who can name who said that.)
I think you are beign too unfair for the eariler encounters. seems the RSE had been busy else where and may not have had everything updated in regards to the federation.
Hey evernyone, thanks for all of your interest! Feel free to join the fleet at patreon.com/resurrected to get custom renders, 3d models, and sneak peaks at works in progress!
The Enterprise D is outmatched against a D'Deridex in a one-on-one battle. If they declocked and opened fire immediately, the Enterprise would take too great of damage before shields came online to engage in a fight of any kind. However, there is room for debate: In the episode "The Defector", two of these D'Deridex were quite intimidated by three bird-of-prey warships teaming up with a galaxy class. Its extremely possible a D'Deridex doesn't do well against multiple targets without support from smaller craft. Or Klingon disruptors are much more effective against Romulan ships than we realize.
Could be a coverage issue. We've only ever seen Dbirds fire from the beak canonically, so like the Klingons, their weapons are forward -facing. Thus, three birds-of-prey can easily outflank them and shoot out the nacelles. It's a lot harder to flank a post-2340s Fed ship, which is why they hold up better when outnumbered.
@@resurrectedstarships Working on a budget does that. The history of that BoP model is that it was damaged, that is why you never see it move its wings ever again. I think the Vor'cha was already built both in IRL and in universe. The showrunners were saving that new model for its grand appearance in the episode "Reunion" later on.
@@dragonknightleader1 That sounds highly probable. While the Enterprise tanks their frontial attacks, those BoPs can swing around and hit the likely vulnerable locations. Its also possible that D'Deridex weapons take a lot of energy to activate, so firing in every direction weakens their overall firepower. Thus, buying their enemies more time to hit them.
@@resurrectedstarships I can guarantee you they were very much K’Vort Class Bird of Prey’s. They were quite large and this was the Season they were introduced no less.
I think you need to consider engineering tradeoffs and rules of engagement. When you design something you usually have to make tradeoffs where being good in one area causes you to be bad somewhere else. For example, if you have lots of armor, hauling around all that extra mass may cause you to be slower and less maneuverable. The Romulan ships have excellent cloaking shields and they have a devastating alpha strike. The question is: what does that cost them? Are their ships slower and less maneuverable? Do they have weak shields and weak armor. What did they have to sacrifice for that cloak and alpha strike ability. If they are good at everything, then the ships have to be very expensive and the Romulans are sacrificing quantity for quality. You need to decide what they had to sacrifice before you can decide how a battle between a galaxy class ship and a D'Deridex will play out. If you decide that the D'Deridex is good at everything, then the Romulans sacrificed quantity and a "fair fight" might be between 2 or 3 galaxy class ships and one D'Deridex. Another thing to consider are the Federation Rules of Engagement. In TNG, the Fed RoE prevented Federation ships from firing the first shot. The Federation policy was to give diplomacy every possible chance and to rely on their generally superior shield technology to be able to absorb an aggressor's opening volley. In fact, Picard and Riker seemed willing to allow several shots before replying in kind. Picard would go out of his way to provoke an attack when dealing with Romulans. I remember a couple episodes where Picard ordered his crew not to raise the Enterprise's shields when warbirds were decloaking so at not to alarm the Romulans. However, the rules of engagement would have to change if war broke out with the Romulan Empire. They could not just let the Romulans have the first shot if that first shot is devastating and comes with very little warning. So, the question is: What could a Galaxy class do if it wasn't restrained by pacifist RoE? In TNG, it seems like it takes the Romulans a second or so to decloak before they can fire. If the Federation was at war, then a Galaxy class ship might keep a volley of torpedoes at the ready, and have the ship's computer fire them and jump to warp the second it detects a war bird decloaking. In any case, I don't think it would just sit there during a war while a warbird decloaked and fired. A third thing to consider are technological improvements on the Federation side. The first time they saw a Romulan ship, it was a shock. But, they took a good look at it and what it could do. We would expect the Federation to start updating their ships to counter the new threat. On the Romulan side, we can assume that they've been spying on the Federation all along and always knew what the Federation ships could do, so there probably would not be as many upgrades over time. So an encounter between a Galaxy class ship is probably going to go different 6 years after the first encounter vs after one year. 😃
Romulans in TNG loved to 'brag' about their superiority, but overall, the Galaxy class and the D'Deridex warbird were more or less comparable with the Warbird maybe having a bit more of an edge weapons-wise, but not enough to ensure a victory by default. The Warbird is larger than the Galaxy yes... and while design wise they may appear 'intimidating' at first, when you look harder, they don't seem to be that special because they also WASTE a lot of potential space (aka the massive gap in the central area of the ship), whereas the Galaxy class is mostly filled.
Agreed, the country voted and popular and electoral college was resounding proof of what the county wanted. Make Star Trek content, not political opinions.
If you want a real open and shut example of the direct power disparity here you can use the episode Tin Man. The D'deridex in that only uses that nose weapon it's not supposed to even have but it drops the Enterprise D's shields by 70% in one strafing run consisting of about half a dozen shots. This is also the same ship that was deliberately over powering its engines in order to keep up with the Enterprise at warp, so it would seem likely that under normal circumstances with their power distributed more evenly and not shunted mostly to engines, the weapons could be even more powerful. Bottem line is though. If you believe that the Romulans and Federation are generally speaking about technologically equal and you acknowledge that the D'deridex is, as noted, anywhere between 2-5 times the size of the Enterprise D you can only really draw one conclusion. If the D'deridex isn't more powerful, then something very weird would have to be going on with the respective roles of the two ships. That's not the case though, and if anything the opposite is suggested, that being the the D'deridex is the design more focused on raw combat performance.
If the Romulan Warbird decloaks and attacks when the Enterprise is not expecting an attack, it's over and the Enterprise burns in space. If the Enterprise is expecting hostilities, it will last a bit longer. The Warbird will still prevail because because it has slightly better weapons, plausibly better armor, and it can still dictate action with cloakind/decloaking strategies. The Enterprise can still retreat in the second scenario.
I love the Galaxy-class, but no way would she win in a 1 on 1 confrontation with a D'Deridex without getting seriously creative. Really looking forward to seeing your outcome.
There was an episode where we see the Enterprise use rapid fire of all of its weapons against an unknown ship which was later revealed to be an illusion. It is the only time in the series that I can recall that we see that rapid fire used against any enemy. I suppose some of the battles against the Borg came close but not to that extent of aggressiveness. I wonder if that rapid fire would be effective against a Romulan ship.
@@dragonknightleader1 Compartmentalized similar to modern warships. But also they have covert operations sections for Tal'Shiar, garrison housing sections for troops transport or emergency relief, science sections setup similar to Star Fleet with compartmentalization in mind so they could hot swap labs. There is so much vacant space but we don't have full scope on the facilities the Romulans build into the ships for the crew. I don't thing it is triple the size though it is likely triple the mass!
But not three times the mass. The majority of the volume of one is actually hollow space. The two are actually fairly comparable in both mass and firepower. D'deridex has fewer disruptor arrays than the Galaxy's phaser arrays (6 vs 12), but they are moderately more powerful and cycle slower. They are about even on torpedo launchers. A D'deridex's main advantage is the first strike potential of its cloaking device, but theoretically, the gravitic sensors of the Galaxy's science systems should be able to detect the gravity generated by the singularity core (why no one on TNG or DS9 ever thought of that is beyond me). So, it is a more even fight than ship dimensions would indicate.
No worries. There's not much misery in the US compared to the past four years. In fact, the majority right now, are very, very happy with how things are going. Ecstatic even.
Romulans always have an angle. Personally I thought it would have been better to launch a shuttle and have that decloak to do the talking. You wanna keep your ace (that ship) up your sleeve. Instead they just dropped their pants. It was not strategically thought out.
I guess who wins could depend on if the Galaxy class is expecting a confrontation. If surprise is a factor; Galaxy doesn't stand a chance. However, if they know a confrontation is coming and have time to prepare, that deflector can put out an impressive alpha strike if needed. Which gets to the point about the SFX teams seeming to want weapons coming out of the deflector: if Starfleet which claims to be about exploration and not combat can modify their deflectors to fire a powerful weapon; it stands to reason that more warlike or combat focused powers would likely have their deflectors capable of being used as weapons by default.
My head cannon for the D'Deridex size has to do with 1. the reactor type needing special management 2. The reason the cloak worked so well. A tight emitter setup instead of a cloak "bubble" 3. in making a countermeasure to the Galaxy (it was in planning for a long time and I assume someone suck a peek at the plans), they ended up just building their own version of it.
The actual consensus was that which ever ship fired first would win. The Galaxy has superior Torpedo firepower,and much better firing arcs. The Warbird has powerful disruptors. Niether ship will survive an alpha strike from the other.
18:41 - speaking of fighters, that is one of its weaknesses, maneuvering when jumped by fighters. The Jem’Hadar fighters cut the Tal Shiar fleet to pieces in the DS9 episode, The Die is Cast.
My baby, the D'deridex is here 😍 As a side note, the quantum singularity used to power the D'deridex's many systems might have a redundant matter-anti-matter reactor, without a technical manual, we may never know. Containing and balancing power distribution would be key, or it might cause the vessel to implode in on itself, providing enough damage has been sustained or a malfunction occurs. Hell, even in STA Online, you can eject the singularity core as a makeshift weapon system.
The D'Deridex is implied to be the mainstay ship of the Romulan fleet, or at least a substantial portion of it. While the Galaxy class probably makes up less than 1/100th of the Federation fleet. If we say that the D'Deridex can overpower a Galaxy class, and 99% of the Federation fleet is less powerful than a Galaxy, with most of it being far less powerful like Excelsiors, Mirandas, etc. Then how did the Romulans not steamroll the Federation? A massive superiority in Federation numbers seems to be the most likely answer. The Romulans may have deigned that D'Deridex with asimilar mentality to the Yamato class. A warship designed to take on superior numbers, knowing that they could not match the production of their enemy. This is all assuming we are talking about a time prior to the ant-Borg ships coming online like the Defiant, Akira, Steamrunner, etc.
If I remember correctly (and not sure where the info was from) the D’Deridex was built in reaction to the Galaxy class and the sister classes that came from Galaxy Classes creation. The actual Galaxy class took an extended number of years in building and testing with other classes being created from the technology that would end up in what is the Enterprise D. The Tal’Shiar got early information on the Galaxy Class and the Romulan ship builders were tasked with designing and building something to match it. This info may be non canon now though, I’m not 1000% sure. The D’deridex has been said on screen as well as elsewhere to be extremely slower and even less manoeuvrable than almost all of the ships of the great powers in the Star Trek universe, and the type of power, coming from the quantum singularity was dangerous in a multitude of ways, it forced the ship to only be able to travel at warp 6 while cloaked or it would show up on an enemies sensors, not only that if there was any problems with the engine it upped the chance of being visible under cloak. To match the speed of a Galaxy Class it needed to exceed its limit by 30% which damaged the coils irreparably. Then there’s the dangers of it effecting time etc. I’m not sure I’d want to work on one. Like in the film Nemesis the Enterprise would be able to use its phasers to look for the cloaked ship as it did with the scimitar. I kind of think that this isn’t going to go the way of the enterprise based on the detail of this video but I think it would be very close, disrupters and phasers are in fact more different than seem to have been shown here they work differently in that phasers are much more capable when it comes to their output, and we’ve seen the enterprise use the deflector shield as a “weapon” multiple times too. I think the fact that Tomalok made sure he had an extra D’deridex with him when he did plan to have a fight and drag the enterprise back as a trophy shows that he was not as sure of his and his ships ability 1 on 1 after all and a few Birds of Prey made him change his mind quickly.
Great video on showing both ships pros and cons . I would like to propose this in another video . I know in "Yesterdays Enterprise " our beloved ship was a Galaxy class warship how much better would the odds be in her favor for this scenario.
One spec that is not mentioned that is documented is ship mass. The Enterprise D is almost 5 million metric tons where the Romulan D'deridex is 4.32. This would make the Enterprise D higher density and more massive. Like steel vs aluminum.
My distinction was always that a "Disruptor" was green, and possibly based on some form of excited plasma compared to phased particle weapons like the federation's orange and blue phasers. Similarly, the fact that Klingons and the federation had the strobing red torpedoes lead me to believe they both used photon torpedoes, whereas the Romulans could have continued to develop their plasma torpedoes into something more sustainable at range, possibly developing a "standard" plasma torpedo as well as their classic "heavy" photon torpedo. Also I think a D'Deridex would win a head-to-head battle with a Galaxy class more often than not. The ship is less maneuverable but it looks like it's better suited for a down-and-dirty slugfest with its more varied weapon array and its singularity power source. However, I don't think I could really call it one way other other. Between the D'Deridex's cloak and the Galaxy's versatility and potentially superior warp capabilities, both ships have a means of engaging the other on their terms. The Romulan ship could easily cloak and try to attack from a blind spot, but the Galaxy could potentially withdraw, set up some technobabble that can be easily explained with a simple comparison, and reengage when its ready. Also also, think you might cover things like refits the ships have undergone in other shows? I recall there being Dominion War refits for both these ships but that might be beta canon not worth digging into.
The Enterprise has shone that even with the saucer seperate, the saucer section is capable of firing what's called an "anti-matter spread" that's ultimately harmless (at least when used against the borg). The ship could seperate and the saucer section can blanket one direction while the star drive section blankets the other direction. The intent would be to narrow down the general area the romulan ship is in while cloaked. It could even possibly damage the warbird's sensors or other soft target systems on the ship that wouldn't be protected while cloaked.
The stock Galaxy class like the Enterprise-D would get pasted by a D'dex without question. However, I'd say Starfleet had refit the Galaxy match the strength of the D'dex during the Dominion war with the extra phaser strips, hull armor and quantum torpedoes. I'd like to see you include that in your analysis, also a comparison between those two and the Dominion battleship would make for a good future video.
You forgot to mention the comparative maneuverability of a Galaxy-class to that of an Incom T-65B X-Wing, they're remarkably similar despite the vast size difference.
Before the Abrams era of "Action Star Trek". Conflicts featured in the show were rarely just a slugfest of two vessels punching each other into submission. Conflicts were often won through guile rather than raw power. Starfleet vessels weaponize their advanced sensors and scientific instruments to find and exploit vulnerabilities. Such was the point of the Kobayashi Maru test, to see how officers react to a no-win scenario when the opposing force has far superior strength - You cheat to win.
Just to nerd out for a bit: There is a marked difference between phasers and disruptors. Phasers, as you say, emit charged nadion particles, which effectively makes them a particle beam weapon. This means that factors like the number of particles and charge amount can be changed per discharge. Disruptors, meanwhile, disrupt and break down the bonds between atoms, which not only damages a target, but releases energy. The only reason I mention this is because Starfleet opted to develop phaser technology based on the premise that a phaser can be used like a tool, granting it greater flexibility. Think about shooting a rock: A phaser on wide beam could bombard a rock with particles and transfer the kinetic energy of those particles into heat and then a dim light, heating an entire face of a rock without eroding much of it, while a focused beam could tunnel through it or cut it in half. A wide-beam disruptor would need to blow the atoms apart to release energy, meaning the rock would also become a sort of fuel source, and the explosions (however minute) caused, would waste a lot of energy sending atoms everywhere along with the associated sound and light.. A focused beam would tunnel through a rock, but the outcome would be like one miniature explosion after another. We do actually use disruptor technology today in the form of UV lasers and contrary to what I just said, the results are actually very clean and precise (although only on certain materials). Swings and roundabouts, I suppose.
That’s a big gahtdamn ship. HOWEVER, I remember seeing the first reveal of the new Romulsn ship in the first run and a few times after that and I gotta tell you, I NEVER got the sense that the D’Deridex was ever that big.
IIRC the artificial singularity that Romulans use in place of the M/AM core takes up a considerable amount of room onboard the ship, both in the reactor itself and its supporting equipment, plus isolating it somewhat from the other inhabited parts of the hull. In all the Romulans still lag behind the Federation in most engineering sciences, especially in warp speed, and probably in shielding technology as well. The fact that the D'D needs to be 6 times the size of the Galaxy class in order to give it a fair fight at all is quite telling.
I think it depends on the mindset of both ship commanders are. If Picard is going in expecting a fight even a one on one he'll have a strategy and have back up plans and alternatives in place which would come into to play for the win. But if Picard is caught off guard and the Romulans are looking for a fight then the moment they decloak they hit fast and hard which the Enterprise could survive but would be badly damaged, shields lowered drastically, and not able to go the distance. Because make no mistake these two class ships are evenly matched and the winner will be determined by who has more time and even a better mindset for a fight.
QUICK Update on Part 2 - it is almost finished - sorry for the delay. I will not make a failed commitment, but will make channel posts on progress! I HOPE to finish before having to go out of town for thanksgivining and release on the friday after, failing that I am sure I will have it up by the beginning of December. Remember you can also get insider WIP at patreon.com/resurrected
Nice to see a lore channel that actually puts work into the video instead of just playing stock footage or gameplay.
Agreed!
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you bother to go the extra mile to help us visualise and understand sizes and weapons, subbed
There is a reason why the Romulan showed up with two ships... he wasn't sure if one would do the job.
And then Picard Uno reversed them and showed up with twice as many ships!
@oliverewarthopkins7818 there is a reason where you want to capture an undamaged enemy ship and destroy it. Destroying it would be easy, but forcing them to capitulate without a fight needs vastly superior firepower.
I’ve always seen the reason why that one romunlan commander was actively threatening the enterprise with 2 dedridex is because it took 2 ships to get a clean kill. So a fair fight between the two ship I always seen as a slug fest that the Dedridex limped home from. The alpha strike is required for a total victory. Without it it’ll be a drawn out match that normally would result in additional ships being drawn to the battle. Basically with the alpha strike high chance of willing with minor issues without it the ship would be returning home in a weaken state.
Romulans only attacked if they had more numbers than their target.
@@johnquigleyiii7685 yup because if I remember right they dont like being in drawn out fights. They rather avoid them or fully dominate their opponent
I agree. I think the Romulan battle doctrine focused heavily on trying to have an overwhelming tactical advantage before committing to a fight. That could be a swift fatal alpha strike or greatly outnumbering the enemy for a guaranteed victory. Once they lost that calculated advantage, they would rather disengage altogether than be forced into a more even, drawn out battle.
My understanding is Romulans place a heavy focus on preserving as much of their assets as they can. They're like risk averse investors: they'll commit their chips only if there's a clear cut return on investment, or if they have extensive insider information, hence all the spying.
I always found it weird that commander then retreated when 2 Klingon BOPs decloaked. Were two BOPs really enough to offset the assured victory calculations the commander had made?
The general consensus has always been that the Warbird had more firepower, but the Galaxy was more maneuverable. This hasn't always been confirmed by onscreen dialogue, let alone actual tactical demonstration, but let's assume it is so. Out of all the secondary sources out there, i have only ever considered ST TNG A Final Unity to even remotely try and simulate the operations of a Galaxy class with any authenticity and coincidentally, in that game Romulan Warbirds are the most often encountered enemies. In a standing match, they did seem to hit quite hard, and if one decides to just stand there a take the hits, the battle would not fair well for the Galaxy. The shields seemed somewhat comparable in overall strength, with the Galaxy holding perhaps slight advantage. All that being said, even though exact details are hard to come by, i think a "fair" match, in which both ships are fully aware of each other, is going to be risky affair. Neither side has a decisive advantage, and who ever wins, isn't going to come out unscathed. The winner will probably who ever managed to pull their own A game, while preventing the other side from doing so. In conclusion, factors like crew training and performance, as well situational and environmental conditions, would probably prove decisive.
But, this is most likely not going to be a fair fight. At least i don't see you as portraying it that way. That means the Warbird is going to make a full "Alpha Strike" on a completely unprepared or at the very best, a Yellow Alert crew and ship. Given that it already has superiority i firepower (at the very least beam firepower), this should give it enough of a head start, to either cripple or severely damage the Galaxy, up to a point they either surrender, flee or are destroyed. I think there's an objective reason why on the few occasions where we meet them, the Romulan commanders are rather smug about the way they could handle the Enterprise. And if we presume that the Romulans are heavily outnumbered by the Federation - Klingon alliance at the start of TNG, this makes a lot of sense. They would put all their eggs into the Quality over Quantity basket, and their ships would rely on first strike capability, in order to even the odds.
However.... does that make the Warbird the superior ship? In practice, they seem to be more of "hot air balloons" then the unstoppable juggernauts of indiscriminate destruction. Especially during the Dominion War. Despite being overwhelmingly larger then anything the allies had at that point, they don't really seem to be more survivable. If anything, they appear more fragile then the Galaxies. Not by a huge margin perhaps, but enough for it to show. What does that mean? Well, we can't know for sure, but it could be a number of factors, or a combination of all of them. For one, their shields might be initially as strong or good at preventing damage as those of a Galaxy class, but, they may recharge at lower rates. Or buckle more easy under prolonged fire and use. Or that by the time of the war, the Federation have improved their shielding much more. On the other hand, despite being several times the volume, it might as well be that the internal layout is much more prone to system failure of catastrophic character. Or their construction methods produce less sturdy hull plating and bulkheads. Or that the ships isn't all that well ARMORED at all. Come to think of it, i don't think it is. So, while it's "Hit points" may be more numerous that that of a Galaxy, it also takes far more damage from each strike that passes through its defenses. This would make it very vulnerable to Dominion weapons, or weapons will larger "area of effect" like torpedoes. Finally, the plasma torpedoes that we never see in tactical use in TNG or DS9. I'm not saying they don't have any, i just think they don't use them for a reason. Or if they use them, at this stage of development, they are no longer the terror weapons they were back in TOS era. Either way, i don't think this would change the final outcome of a Romulan surprise attack. It just means their ship is more of a glass cannon, and that speaks volumes on the design philosophies of both powers. Romulans favor highly specialized ships, to a point they are more of a one trick pony, and rely on surprise and terror tactics. Federation ships are more generally useful and more flexible all around.
Finally a few words on the Galaxy class. We often count all the phaser strips as some sort of weapon specification, when want to quantify it's offensive capabilities, but those strips aren't really created equal. I will not go into the Technical Manual, as it's numbers were never directly brought into canon, but even without it, even we assume there's no difference in power between them, they still aren't. Those two big wide arcs on the ventral and dorsal sides of the saucer section, are by far going to be used the most, simply due to the coverage they offer. The other strips are mostly situational. Unless we are fighting surrounded, but this isn't such a case. So i think we are better off coming with some other metric of firepower, at least for the beam weapons on the Enterprise.
EOL
P.S. Sorry for the long post, but at the time i was working a hardpoint model for Bridge Commander to best illustrate both ships, and as a result still have many unresolved dilemmas i was eager to share. Good video, keep making them!
Regarding the maneuverability issue, one of the problems the Romulins faced in the dominion war was that their targeting computers had a hard time keeping up with the jem-hadar fighters. We don't know exactly why this was, but if we assume that it translates to an individual starfleet ship maneuvering then that further multiplies the gap.
Essentially Romulin doctrine relies heavily on their cloak. Without it their ships start to show pretty significant gaps in development. They also rely on their singularity power source for longer range, but their speed suffers from them. Which means that a galaxy class could out run them. And that's multiplied by the use of closer range weapons utilized by the Romulins.
There's also one more thing to consider, and that's that the Romulin ship is more expensive. They simply have fewer of them than the federation does. In the dominion war the romulins started the war with I think 4 fleets. The federation by contrast had about a dozen, and the klingons had around 8 or 9. So maybe it's not fair to view the fight as a 1v1.
Ask the Borg how quickly a Galaxy-class can maneuver to get through a Supercube's superstructure to get to the reactor core....
Most of the Warbirds we see go down are either pre-polaron blocking shields or against big BIG planetary defense guns aren't they?
@@DIEGhostfish
Mostly, not every Warbird got outfitted with the Anti-Polaron Shielding.
Imagine being a crew member on those ships during the Dominion War…
@@RandyLRhoades By the time they joined the war in earnest they all had to have it. It's just nobody had it in the failed attempt to wipe out the founders.
Before you even said it I noticed right off that you had the weapons emitting from the correct places on the ship! It made me so happy! Star Trek has a long history of weapons fire being emitted from the wrong place.
Regarding the warbird.. It's artificial singularity is going to have literal astronomical mass with of it's inherent issues. Naturally we know about Trek's gravity manipulation from deck plating and moving DS9 in it's pilot episode. So if you're aiming for "balance" or "sciency-ness" for why the warbird wouldn't just rofl-stomp everything, then we can invoke Conservation of Energy. Any energy expended to reduce the effective mass of a singularity is directly proportional to the amount of energy that can be extracted from it. Therefore it follows that the Warbird can be either manouverable or firing it's weapons but never both, full power at the same time.
Dang that's a very good point actually.
This would invariably track with the Star Trek method of power and energy diversion technique that seems to be common in the franchise so I think you are on too something.
Came here to say this. Otherwise their cloak would be useless.
Your point is interesting. And probably accurate. However....
We know it's an "artificial" singularity. We know from "Timescape" that artificial singularities do not act the same way as natural singularities via the alien creature whose young cannot gestate in an *artificial* singularity. We do not know *how* they're different, only *that* they're different.
We also know it's a "quantum" singularity. So the mass is relatively small to get the event horizon down to the size where quantum gravity plays a part. We do not know exactly how small that is. However, it's probably not "astronomical".
Indeed, if my calculations are correct, a quantum singularity with Hawking radiation of the power needed for the warp 9 regime should have a radius on the order of 10e-21 meters.
If such a singularity were due to its mass alone (and I doubt it is) it would have a mass on the order of 10,000 metric tonnes.
That's about how much deuterium the Enterprise-D has in her tanks.
This makes me suspect the mass of the singularity is not a huge issue.
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the saucer shape of the forward hull on the fed ships gives them an incredible firing arc
As for the Romulan singularity core, the mass of the black hole inside it should completely dwarf the rest of the ship. A black hole with the mass of Mt Everest for example, would be the size of an atom. I presume that the Romulans discovered how to contain the singularity in its own static warp shell to reduce its relative mass, because they'd need a black hole with the mass of a small moon to have enough gravity to attract other matter. I also presume that they generate warp plasma by feeding matter into the singularity to create an accretion disk that would generate plasma that they would then siphon off to power the ship.
That would only give them a matter/energy conversion rate of around 16 percent. Maybe higher if the Use 24th century tricks, but it's inevitably going to be less than matter/antimatter in terms of efficiency. That's probably why Romulan ships have lower speed than federation ones, and start to strain the engines at 9.3. That and probably the need to keep up a second warp field as you suggest.
Hypothetically speaking, you can squeeze any amount of matter bellow the limit for it to become black hole, but the longevity of that hole would be shorter if it's smaller. However, the power you get from Hawking Radiation would be higher. Also, there are feeding problems with tiny black holes, as matter gets so compressed and as a result so hot, it doesn't really get to fall inside the event horizon, but rather it's spewed out. I would guess, from a fictional universe perspective, maintaining a fine balance of such a system is no easier, and perhaps more difficult then maintaining a stable M-AM reaction in the warp core.
@@ilejovcevski79That raises the in-universe question over why the Romulans embraced a singularity energy source in the first place.
Of course the behind the scenes reason is to provide a exotic energy source for the plots of the TNG episodes “The Face of the Enemy” and “Timescape”.
Perhaps the artificial quantum singularity depicted is a radically different type of singularity from a black hole as we know it.
@@Maphisto86 perhaps so. I one of my head-canon explanations use to be that perhaps, they don't have enough dilithium production of their own, and as they were rather isolated until the start of TNG, they couldn't get enough of it by trade. Another possible explanation i liked to consider is the size of their ships and the sheer need for power generation that a cloaking device would need to screen such a large ship from sensors, while going warp 6 at the same time. Micro-black holes are very unstable yes, but they also radiate huge amounts of energy, possibly just what the Romulans needed with the D'Deridex. Maybe it is a combination of both, or something third entirely.
@@ilejovcevski79 Trek never explained any of this. Only that one episode with Troi even talked about their quantum singularity. Other episodes talked about their dilithium mines and use of antimatter. So who knows.
Did... did you just 'Best of Both Worlds' us all? 😂
Looking forward to part 2 👍
Hey Resurrected Starships, the Enterprise-D you feature in this video has the impulse engine on the stardrive section illuminated as well the two impulse engines on the saucer section, these impulse engines on the saucer section are only used when the primary hull is separated from the secondary hull.
I think it’s important to note that by the time of the Dominion war, the warbirds were getting wrecked and the Romulan fleet was taking devastating losses while the Galaxy class was holding its own.
Perhaps this dosen’t mean the galaxy was more powerful but perhaps speaks to the shortcomings of the warbird design
Yeah the Dominion war upgraded Romulan ships just seemed weak. Maybe it all came down to them not having quantum torpedoes, which was a major upgrade for Starfleet ships.
The federation had greatly enhanced shield technology in order to face the dominion
@@logangodofcandy Yeah I imagine tens of thousands of Federation scientists studied phased polaron beams for many months until they figured it out.
We didn't see a full fight for either case. It would have been great. I think losses on the part of the Romulans might be due to a need to rethink their tactics. The dominion was good as seeing through a cloak. Being stealthy and dictating battle was core to Romulan tactics. An admiral complaining about access to repair saw O'Brien note their ships weren't taking heavy damage and weren't being prioritized.
@@KevinWebb I remember that. The Klingon ships were taking the damage (giving it their all) and were hogging the repair bays.
Enterprise for me but just.. all power transferred to phasers and torpedoes set at maximum yield..in the episode defector we know the Romulan Admiral gave Picard technical information on the warbird, Strengths, weaknesses etc. that knowledge can be used to their advantage like they did with the Borg Cube in First Contact..
That was Commander Tomalak. I do not recommend however transferring all power to weapons however for this however.
I recommend using 2/4ths Engine Power and 1/4th shield and Weapons Power and Out Maneuvering to the more blind spots of the D’Deridex. Preferably the top side of the Warbird where the Shield Generator would be according to most sources. Then it’s a Toe to toe slugging match with you having an advantage.
@ Admiral Jarok actually
Starfleet sensors are a major advantage. One reason being because they needed them really good to be able to detect cloaked ships.
D'Deridex is tactically strong, but strategically weak. In a one on one fight the D'Deridex could beat any ship the federation has, but I strongly doubt that the Romulan fleet could keep with the Star Fleet in a open war. The D'Deridex is an insane concentration of resources and it really hurts the Romulans when they lose one.
so stealth is strategically weak?:O
One thing that always comes to mind is that Picard seemed pretty confident that the Enterprise supported by 3 Birds of Prey would ensure that Tomalak wouldn't survive the destruction of the Enterprise against 2 Warbirds in "The Deserter". That's not a huge amount of extra firepower in what looks to be an all out exchange of fire. Granted, he may have been bluffing, but Tomalak does seem to take it seriously. I'd still take it as a sign that a Warbird either is not as tough as it may first appear on size. While 3 K'vort "Battle cruisers" were quite the match for the "War" Enterprise-D "Battleship" in "Yesterday's Enterprise", we also don't know that any or all of the 3 depicted in "The Deserter" are K'Vorts nor if there's significant differences in their power between the two timelines. And the Enterprise is tied down defending the Enterprise as the Enterprise crawls back into the anomaly, so it undoubtedly wasn't fighting at full capacity. I guess the question is, how much firepower would you judge 3 Birds of Prey as bringing to the table and how does that place the Warbird's abilities in order to make Picard's threat to Tomalak realistic? Personally I suspect that it IS likely 3 K'vorts and that in combination they bring just above the firepower of a Galaxy, which means that Warbird vs Galaxy is roughly even.
Worth noting that even with the Warbirds having the opportunity to judge the situation and scan as much as they would like, they didn't detect 3 Birds of Prey cloaked near the Enterprise. Arrogance or a lack of capability?
Similarly, while Picard also seems hesitant to engage a single Warbird one on one, that to me suggests that it is at least close enough that the Enterprise would be crippled if it won at best - he is never deterred from his actions by one. And while we do see individual Warbirds confront the Enterprise, they often seem to be more playing chicken with Picard. I'd suspect that one on one it's going to be a rough fight for either ship to come out with much fight left in them - maybe just intact enough to surrender to the next ship to arrive. I'd also bet that a lot of the hesitance is more about sparking a war with the Romulans than anything else.
Another thing to consider is that the Romulans may be using some form of spaced armor or other construction method that leaves a lot of "empty" space within the Warbird without actually increasing it's mass by too much compared to the size difference.
The bird of prey model was used in TNG season 3 as a placeholder for "very powerful generic Klingon ship", because the Vor'cha model had not been built yet. That's also the reason why the K'vort models appear to be so huge, because they were meant to be big cruisers that could take on a Warbird. After TNG season 4, the bird of prey went back to being depicted as a tiny scout ship/destroyer. I really wish the TNG remastered edition had replaced all the K'vort scenes from before season 4 with Vor'cha attack cruisers.
@@BlastHardcheeseable
But I like the K’Vorts tho. :(
I kind of like the idea that the Romulans decided to build the super large D’Deridex Class to be the ship that effectively like a pair of stuffed trousers. Lol.
But there is some truth to the idea the D’Deridex’s size is mostly crawlspace or empty space. If you look at the model or any of the deck plans you will. Notice that the inhabited part of the ship is all in the nose mostly.
I think the Romulans just prefer to fight when they know they have an overwhelming tactical advantage. That’s part of their battle doctrine. In “The Deserter” they probably calculated that two D’Deridex warbirds had an overwhelming chance of victory against a lone Galaxy class. One could overpower the Enterprise with difficulty but two was a guaranteed stomp. The surprise of the flanking Klingon warships upset that calculated overwhelming advantage.
Even if they knew they could still likely win (which I think they probably could have) it simply wasn’t the Romulan way to get into a more even fight that wasn’t on their terms and possibly risk taking heavy losses. So, they disengaged.
@@Gunnar001
It’s a possibility, the episode was actually called The Defector but even so the context is the same. It does make sense that they would be squeamish about tactical advantages, afterall they were one of the few factions to only develop warp drive until the 23rd century making such FTL Tech relatively brand new to them, which put them militarily and technologically disadvantaged compared to the rest of the galaxy. It makes sense mentally that even with their large starships they are worried about taking heavy losses.
Perhaps the Few D’Deridexes we seen on screen were all the Romulans had at that point. Would make sense why we don’t see them come Nemesis.
In many ways for a cloak dependent fleet bigger is not better IMO. If anything I think its the opposite. The bigger a cloaked ship is the easier for a blind fire anti-cloak fire pattern like we saw in Nemesis, and given who the patterns were named after I believe its likely the tactic predates TNG, to score hits and the D'Deridex still has to decloak to fire so any damage taken while cloaked is damage taken without the possibility of counterarttack.
I've never really been fond of Batteleship or Dreadnought type craft, and I count both ships as this in general but if I'm picking a ship and expect to use my cloak in battle I would want something closer a Romulan counterpart to the Defiant over a D'Deridex any day. Something small, well armed, and hard to hit by blind fire.
One thing that's interesting about Romulan Torpedoes looking like Green Photons is there was a very old, and now discredited Star Trek book which I believe came out between the first two movies focusing on spacecraft design and space travel history between the 20th Century and the very early TOS movie era, and I believe it stated Starfleet created its first Photon Torpedoes by analyzing combat data from the Earth-Romulan War or some of the skirmishes leading to it and reverse engineering the torpedoes the Romulans were using at the time.
Edit: One weakness of Plasma torpedoes is they can be shot down by Phasers and tend to be much larger, and slow thus being easier to hit based on what we saw in Balance of Terror. The main reason the 1701 took a hit in Balance of Terror was because the torpedo attack was launched while her Phasers were offline.
Edit 2: Also while a D'Deridex might have more Torpedoes and Torpedo Launchers unless both types can be fired from the same Launchers she probably has less of either type, or one type of Launcher significantly outnumbers the other.
One thing I think you’re understating about the D'Deridex regarding the Stealth and Detection capabilities is that it is a Romulan ship. I have every reason to believe it has detection and monitoring equipment on-par (or even surpassing) a Galaxy-class, but where a Galaxy-class has its scanning equipment calibrated for exploration, the D'Deridex would be calibrated towards clandestine, covert, and counter-ship operations. The Romulans are basically warrior-spies; to think their capital ship doesn’t have a top-of-the-line electronic-surveillance suite is to fatally underestimate them.
10:32 go watch Dracinifels video on Naval Fortifications, its about an hour long, but its a great listen. In it, they mention that Naval Fortifications tend to use outdated weapons, since if you are going to use new weapons, might as well put them on a ship. The same would go here. Have older torpedoes laying around? Stick them in planetary defense
We do know from the episode "Tin Man" that a Romulan Warbirds disruptors can reduce the Enterprise D's shields by 70%. We do not know if the Enterprise can do the same to the Romulans.
Star Fleet prides itself on it's shields, given time or opportunity they could adapt. There is no reason to believe the galaxy class first edition would stand a chance at cracking their shields outright, but given how we've seen abuse of shield systems work for all factions in other episodes and shows the secondary damage from a galaxy class absolutely dumping everything it has into Romulan shields would be like the 4th of July in the engineering sections.
@@ArturiusMaxwell Well...we don't actually know because it never happened on screen.
The most firepower from a Galaxy class that we've seen on screen was the time the enterprise fired on that illusion "Husnok" ship . And that was a fake ship that couldn't be damaged.
I am of the opinion that they should be able to, my reasoning:
In the TNG episode: A Matter of Time, the Enterprise was able create an artificial Super Volcano on an M Class Colony world to take it out of an Ice Age of sorts, there was great risk of it destroying the colony and the surface of the planet so Tachyon beams were used to minimize the destructive power of the Phaser. Proving that a General Order 24 was feasible for a Galaxy Class Starship to do on their own.
Meanwhile in DS9, The Die is Cast: a D’Deridex along with a few Cardassian vessels were attempting a General Order 24-like Planetary Bombardment of the Founder homeworld; 30% of the planetary surface was destroyed in the opening volley yet it can be proven and backed up that the homeworld was not destroyed or unsalvagable and no Artificial volcanoes or anything were created in the bonbardment destruction.
To be fair and honest: we don’t know exactly if the Enterprise’s Phasers were tuned to the lowest but most reasonable for the job setting to do that feat (I presume it would be all things considered) but we do know that both the Founder’s Homeworld and the Human Colony world in question were both Class M worlds of relatively similar Earth size, meaning the Planets were probably very close to one another in scale and we also do not know how much the D’Deridex contributed to the 30% of the opening volley, but I do think it remains clear that the D’Deridex required help for something that ultimately the Galaxy Class Enterprise was capable of on it’s own; meaning regardless of what went into the technical manuals: The show itself has the Enterprise displaying much more powerful firepower than the D’Deridex. It’s close enough to be a fair fight but the Galaxy Class edges overall.
But the problem is; how does one rectify Worf’s statement of The D’Deridex Class having greater firepower than the Enterprise? Well one way to look at it is that Worf may have meant that the D’Deridex has much more variances of firepower in the amount it can fire at once, it has Disruptor Turrets, Beams, Volleys, multiple different Torpedo types bases on best guesses based on past Romulan Weaponry experiences and even Tractor Beams can be weaponized similarly to the Borg (people sleep on the weaponization possibilities Star Trek Tractor Beams have in general).
Two warbirds at Point blank range.
I think a confrontation between these ships would ultimately depend on the specific circumstances. Is the enterprise unaware, then the first attack from romulans manages to use its cloaking device effectively to launch a surprise attack it could overwhelm the Enterprise. On the other hand, if Captain Picard and his crew can detect and counter the warbird's cloaking tactics, they might leverage the Enterprise-D's advanced systems and maneuverability to outfight the Romulans.
If the enterprise has time, then i think the more experience crew can defeat the romulans. (I mean, they did defeat the Borg).
But as i stated, would ultimately depend on the specific circumstances.
Excellent video. I hit the 👍 by 9:57. Again, very well done. 🖖🤘
I really appreciated your comments at the end of the video. I came to this video to find an escape but that was a nice message.
The majority of the country needed an escape from the past four years of nothingness, empty promises, vilification of anyone who dared no follow a failed agenda and massive overall disappointment not to mention ever increasing prices on just about everything.
@@AnaheimRobWith the planned tariffs and other idiocy that's planned, I hope you and everyone else who voted for him get EXACTLY what you wanted.
@@WhoRunBarterTown ...yawn. The bitter, hate mongering lib spews what everyone expects...Hate. what a shock. Yeah, we will get a secure border with safer streets with the eventual deportation of hundreds of thousands of extremely violent criminals. The horror. withing a couple of years we will be 100% self-reliant with all energy brining lower fuel prices, especially to the middle class. Those tariffs you are throwing tantrums over are necessary. Yeah, putting them on Mexico will raise some prices for a while, but Mexico needs the US a whole lot more than we need them. Those tariffs will force their idiot president to secure their own southern border and prevent millions of criminal or those wanting to abuse the US's generosity from illegally entering into the US. That could take six or seven months but well worth the investment! That and the push to bring more quality jobs back to the US would be soooo awful (rolls eyes). Not my fault you are mentally unstable and freak out every single time you don't get your way. Time for the little progressive to grow up for once! God bless America and God bless Trump!
@@WhoRunBarterTown The far left "progressive" freak outs are already one thing that tens of millions of real Americans wanted. So far wea re getting EXACTLY what we wanted. Lower fuel prices, controlled inflation, secure southern border, more police funding are right around the corner! Enjoy!
I remember when I was a kid watching this episode with my Dad.
he said WOW that thing was much bigger!!
personally insulted I say NO, it was just the scale difference of the camera shot!!!
LOL
This is a low key dick joke everybody.
Turns out it was actually that much bigger, lmao
@@RandyLRhoades Yet so much negative space on the warbird.
I am personally very comfortable with them being basically equals on paper and likely a 1v1 fight would lead to mutual destruction or both being crippled to the point where neither could continue fighting. The Galaxy has a lot more scientific and engineering bells whistles and tricks but the D'Deridex has better firepower, stealth capabilities, armor and versatility in weaponry. We see many of D'Deridex class during the Dominion war in wings alongside the galaxy class. This to me shows the D'Deridex class is more than capable of holding its own which is more than enough reason to suggest they were at least just as capable and effective. Some have pointed out that in the TNG episode "the Defector" that the 2 D'Deridex's back down being surrounded by Klingon ships. However its important to note 1. we dont know what class they were 2.Tomalak likely wouldn't want to get the Klingons involved in a war and 3. They were outflanked and likely at that point evenly matched at the very least only a complete fool would want to fight in that situation no matter how powerful your ship is.
There are two negatives about the Galaxy class we do know. It's warp core was very vulnerable to damage and sabotage and the onboard computer as shown many times in the series was very susceptible to being hacked, attacked with viruses or having bugs. Though not important in a firefight , its important if we consider the opponent. The Romulans who are obsessed and masters of, intelligence and espionage these are things I can very easily imagine they would try and exploit and use these to their advantage.
If the enterprise has any chance of survival, its going to be in the skill of its captain and willingness to retreat. A more stubborn captain who chooses to stay and fight means cretin destruction, but one who is more wise may choose to focus on repairing engines if they survive the surprise attack and choose to outrun the D'Deridex. A more crafty captain could also find a way to outsmart the romulans, such as a surprise all out attack after feigning surrender and getting the romulans to lower their shields to use transporters to board the enterprise, or using some sort of stellar object to their advantage. But in a strait up slugging match the enterprise will be slaughtered if not outright destroyed by the first surprise attack, as the galaxy class is shown to fold like wet tissue paper once its shields are down in DS9.
The way I've always seen it, ever since I was a kid, was that the Galaxy and D'Deridex were opposites of the D-7/Constitution. Where the Constitution was much more likely to beat a D-7, given commanders and crews of equal skill, the D'Deridex would be much more likely to beat a Galaxy, again given commanders and crews of equal skill. At worst maybe a pyrrhic victory for the D'Deridex.
On-screen incidents don't always make it sound this way, but Picard isn't your average captain and the Romulans seem to know that.
D'Deridex is a large slow moving warship designed to decloak and slug it out with one or more smaller enemy vessels and come out well enough to keep fighting or return for repair. While the Galaxy is a smaller, faster ship with most of its hull space and power dedicated to science and exploration, but still has enough left over to pack a punch when it needs to. With some of the unorthodox schemes the Enterprise comes up with to get out of danger, one can certainly see why a Romulan commander might hesitate to engage the Enterprise in a fair 1on1 fight when they might otherwise do so with another Galaxy.
I do also have a bias toward the D'Deridex. Its my favorite alien ship in Trek and the Romulans are my favorite aliens.
Knowing Picard one surprise he might have is his contacts. Remember in that one episode when the Enterprise and those two Romulan War birds and brought three Klingon ships with him. Knowing Picard he would make sure to have help.
Great video! I love these types of breakdowns and what if scenario's:)
There are 3 things to consider in your scenario - 1) Plot Armor: The hero ship and crew ALWAYS prevail even if its unrealistic. :-) Also consider the situation that you are going to be placing them in. If it is a peaceful situation then the Enterprise could be severely damaged before they can fight back long enough to run away or call for help. 2) Crew Capabilities: If you are going to pit this warbird against the Enterprise specifically, then you are going to have to consider the abilities of its crew, specifically Data, Geordi, Riker, Picard and Worf. All of these characters bring a unique edge and experience to the battle that would make the Enterprise a "unique" target to attack and destroy. Consider the following - Data can quickly analyze the situation; Geordi can quickly repair damage; Riker has "non-standard" tactical knowledge; Picard has years of experience an some tactical abilities and Worf is a tactical marvel who knows his way around weapons and defense. 3) Sensors: I believe that the Enterprise has far superior sensor abilities and would be able to ANTICIPATE a Romulan presence if they are in a situation where contact is expected. Just going into a situation knowing that the Romulans are possibly involved is enough to put the ship on alert status and we know that the ships sensors AUTOMATICALLY trigger a defense posture when it detects ANY enemy ship activity. We have seen this many times on screen where the ship goes to yellow or red alert at the slightest detection of any enemy ship. Extra - One more thing to consider in your "alternate timeline" is what is the "specific" benefit of the Enterprise's destruction? What do the Romulans gain and what do they lose as a result? The last time the Romulans destroyed a ship named Enterprise it brought two of its greatest enemies together against them. Is it worth it politically to destroy the Federation Flagship? Romulans according to Worf have no honor and strike from the back in the shadows. It would be a very bad move to attack and destroy the Enterprise in any scenario other than open warfare. Lastly, consider the "overall experience" of the crew and the condition the Enterprise you are wanting to pit your Romulan warbird against - is it the "freshman" crew of season 1 or the "senior" crew of season 7 or even the movie "Generations". Just a few thoughts you may want to consider. ;-)
Yeah even in TOS episodes the screens as they called them automatically came up if the ship detected a threat.
Only saucer pod nebula's with other ships as help could detect warbirds though their cloak. Enterprise never stood a chance to detect anything in TNG or other galaxies in DS9. So point 3 is invalid @myronstoke3324
Just please remember the characters you're dealing with. I don't mean plot protection or anything like that. Just how they have faced no-win scenarios plenty of times each even before the first encounter with the D'Deridex. If you're going for ENTERPRISE vs D'Deridex then you have to take into account her crew, their decision making, their abilities, and their reactions under this sort of pressure.
First, THANK YOU for producing exactly what you say on your thumbnail. So many videos have become garbage over the last few years. Repetitions, non covered content thumbnails. Lies,*disclaimers and unsubstantiated opinions as well.
2nd. Great detail. Love the comparisons. And the graphics are fabulous.
The Romulan Warbird showed its age in DS9 while the Galaxy Class was uprated and kicked ass as a frontline ship in the Dominion War. TNG era they were evenly matched, Dominion War Era the Galaxy owns the Warbird.
I think of a fight between a D'deridex and the Enterprise D like a night fight between the Yamato and the Iowa. I think it's a compelling analogy. The Japanese were known for their highly developed night fighting training and abilities. They were even able to capitalize on this in a few instances. (Battle of Savo Island) It's unlikely, but conceivable that an alternate universe lone Yamato would have been able to surprise a lone Iowa at night. Cloaked in the darkness of night, terrain masked in an island archipelago, Yamato would have a chance at a tremendous alpha strike. However, the Iowa's speed, maneuverability, relatively advanced radar, and analog targeting computers would have allowed it to gain distance and pummel the Yamato from long range with accurate fire, where hits from Yamato's 18 inch guns would be possible but less likely. (Also, don't forget the US Navy's demonstrated superior damage control! ) The performance of the radar laid US guns at the Battle off Samar fooled Vice Admiral Takeo Kurita into thinking he faced larger ships than destroyers and escort carriers, such was the volume of on-target fire. (Unfortunately, though, real world US naval doctrine at the time would have had the Iowa close distance!)
Using this analogy, the ST:TNG battle almost writes itself! Romans surprise the Enterprise D with an alpha strike. The Enterprise manages to recover and gain some distance. Starfleet doctrine against the D'deridex is to close to where sensors can defeat the cloaking enough to attempt to target vital systems. However, with the help of the bridge crew, Picard's tactical mind discerns that the Enterprise's maneuverability and sensor advantage can allow it to open the range, where the D'Deridex has to deactivate its cloak to keep up and range its weapons out to even hope to hit. The Romulan commander realizes that at that point, he will slowly get picked apart by the Enterprise at long range and eventually lose, so the Romulans retire.
Fantastic video! Excellent CGI you have created!
15:10 Trade off is the flexture can be disrupted and collapse causing a complete loss of power for the ship which was seen on the first batches. They had to be towed back and their cores re started at a shipyard. It not like a warpcore you can eject. Neat lore.
50/50
Both ships are really strong, assuming we go by DS9 standards and not the paperweight of TNG where the shields break if you so much as sneeze in Engineering.
I wanna give the benefit to D'deridex though buuut... No, it's 50/50 to me.
This promises to be interesting. If Enterprise detaches, how fast and manoeuvrable are both sections?
great video, i look forward to seeing the next part and how you think the battle goes! i always took the D'Deridex as a ship born of the Romulan's isolationist period, and was geared more for dealing with conquering and subjugating less advanced planets, the hollow space making it look even larger and more imposing than its already hefty mass would be. Later, after they had more interactions with the Federation and the rest of the galaxy they began developing the class of warbird like the Valdore from Nemesis, a battlecruiser designed to fight the best of the other major powers.
on the quantum singularity engine, my take has been off of some old fanon from the 1970s that Romulan space was resource poor compared to Federation and Klingon space, fewer class-M planets, fewer dilithium deposits, and so they had to resort to creative alternatives like cloaking tech and devastating alpha strike weapons that are probably less effective in a prolonged battle. the QSE is a means they could almost get the same power as a Galaxy-class's warp core without any starship-grade dilithium. the down side is that the QSE is finicky and temperamental and may be more prone to problems than the tried and true matter/antimatter reaction. and when it goes wrong it really goes wrong.
i agree with the observation that the Romulans knew it would take two D'Deridexs (D'Deridice?) to effectively kill a Galaxy-class, especially one with a top notch crew like the Enterprise. My take the Enterprise under Picard could take a D'Deridex, but a generic Galaxy-class with generic captain and crew, it's a 50/50 with an advantage to the Romulans if they manage a true surprise attack.
Well I don't favor the Galaxy's chances of winning, It also depends on the type of Commanders on each side. I don't believe for instance that Picard is a better Tactical Commander as is Captain Jerico who held command of the Enterprise for a short bit. But to help the Galaxy's chances they would have to be already in ready status to stand a chance against the first strike the D'Deridex can dish out. Jerico with advance warning that Romulans are going to be hostile soon would already be holding battle drills. Getting the shields up fast would be a must if the Galaxy Class would stand any chance. It is a Heavy Explorer Cruiser going against a Dedicated Warship after all
I think it stands a better chance than you might think, better Speed and Maneuverability should be on the Enterprise’s side; we have more evidence of greater Destructive Power from the Enterprise but the Romulan D’Deridex has more weapon variants.
So it’s basically a Tank vs Aircraft battle of sorts. The Tank would do well to hit the Aircraft quickly and swiftly but the Aircraft must fly and maneuver unpredictably attacking the Tank ideally from the highest angle possible.
Also don’t underestimate Picard’s tactical capabilities. He’s got a whole tactical maneuver named after him for a reason. While he prefers diplomacy he is fully capable of commanding a starship in battle and combat when necessary. The thing about Jellico is he was a try hard when it comes to starship command, changing up crew rotations in preparation for a battle that may not come brings it’s own risk flaws as well, battle drills can seldom truly prepare people for the real thing unless you use the holodecks which may consume power resources. He also didn’t know how to engage the crew and was admittedly a very bad diplomat; he was sort of the Anti-Picard; a man who was a diplomat at heart but knew how to tango when the going got tough and a competent commanding officer who knew what his crew was capable of, where as Jellico was a soldier who was only good at being such and not much else.
This video is insanely well-researched.
In Star Trek it tends to seem that flying around with defensive shields up all the time is not a thing because: [1] it drains too much power and [2] it's universally considered an act of open aggression. So IMHO a sneaky full alpha strike from a decloaking D'Deridex would be an instakill on most ships because you get smoked with your pants down. Especially since a cloaked ship can take its time aiming the weapons beforehand, and damaging a nacelle is basically a surekill (see TNG episode, Cause and Effect).
13:00 The problem with armour is that it is heavy, and the D'Deridex has a very large amount of surface area for ship of it's dimensions. Armour would make it very very heavy, which would mean greater power requirements and slower speed. I don't know if it would be worth it.
Good to see you back! I would love it if you made another video about your corporation in Eve online. Thank you!
Your channel is needed. No matter what happens at this point, things in the US get worse before they get worse.. No matter what puppet is on stage.
Hope we see a What IF analysis scenario which either Kirk, Janeway, Sisko or Picard encounters Grand Admiral Thrawn in the near future...
A bit of food for thought and a suggestion
Considering that romulans rarely if ever engage in 1 vs 1 ship battles, they usually roll in packs of 3. The galaxy, negvar, and d'd all are more or less considered each others contemporaries. Galaxy is the maneuverability, negvar is tough, and D'd is firepower. With any of the 3 fighting 1v1 it could go either way based on the situation I don't think 1 would always best the other 100% of the time.
Space based threats start out bigger or stronger than they end up being later in the show - its a movie thing. The Galaxy class had the edge on a single Romulan warbird but could not handle two of them, without friends.
Fantastic set up. Roll on part 2! 😁🖖
I love the Galaxy class but I think if the Warbird uses surprise to it's advantage it will win hands down. It's really is going to depend on the circumstances of the encounter. If the Galaxy class knows something is up then it may have a chance to survive but not win outright.
You’re going to get different outcomes based on when and how the two ships interact, as well as which captains are in charge. Going off of the canon encounters between Galaxies and D’Deridexes, we have a list of 11(ish) potential confrontations.
_The Neutral Zone_
_The Enemy_
_The Defector_
_Tin Man_
_Data’s Day_
_Redemption pt. 2_
_Unification pt. 2_
_Face of the Enemy_
_Timescape_
_The Pegasus_
&
During the Dominion War.
Breaking these down, we actually only have 8. Prior to _The Neutral Zone,_ prior to _Q Who,_ prior to _The Defector,_ prior to _Data’s Day,_ prior to _Best of Both Worlds,_ prior to _Timescape,_ prior to the Dominion War, and after the outbreak of the Dominion War.
Each of these events marks a significant point where either Starfleet or the Romulan Navy updated their vessels to better combat the other.
Let’s start with scenario 1: prior to _The Neutral Zone._
At this point it’s hands down a Romulan victory. The few Galaxy class ships of this era were not combat-oriented, and were unprepared for their opponents. The warbird meanwhile was functionally undetectable, and had the advantage of knowing their enemy well. Even assuming a straight-up fight rather than a stealth attack, there’s simply no chance other than a daring escape to regroup with the fleet. However, we shouldn’t take the loss too hard. Starfleet *was* kind of being overthrown from within by evil Bluegills, and even _they_ had the sense to prepare against the Romulan threat after witnessing it, with every iota of data scanned by the _Enterprise_ being poured over in great detail, and with several refits the following year (several of which we saw or heard about).
Scenario 2: between _The Neutral Zone_ and _Q Who._
Here the D’Deridex still likely takes it, as there wasn’t too much time for those new refits to see much use or get any practical testing. However, the Galaxy would have had its systems (to quote Captain Jellico) “Loaded for Bear” and while a stealth attack would leave it reeling, in a straight up fight the Galaxy would put up more fight than the Romulans would likely expect. It wouldn’t go down easy.
Scenario 3: Between _Q Who_ and _The Defector._
This one definitely shortens the gap. After their encounter with the Borg and no longer bogged down by conspiracies, Starfleet had its ships ready to fight and to dance. The Galaxy Class’ phaser and photon torpedo armaments were notably improved, even above and beyond where they already were. And as Q rightly says: “…the Romulans, they’re nothing compared to [the Borg].” While Starfleet can’t close the gap instantly, it can shorten it. A stealth attack would still result in a Federation defeat, but in a straight-up fight the Galaxy is going to leave that D’Deridex bloody and weary. She will not go quietly into that night.
Scenario 4: Between _The Defector_ and _Data’s Day._
This is where Starfleet caught up. With the information from a Romulan Admiral on their military, Starfleet was able to tailor their weapons and technology to fight the Romulans well. At this point I can see an easy landslide Galaxy victory. They have the specs, they have the data, they have the know-how to apply it. It was at this point they could probably see through the cloaking devices at least well enough to make use of the lack of shields, so a stealth strike isn’t on the table here unless the Romulan commander is suicidal. Straight up also leaves them at a disadvantage as the Galaxy has been beefed up constantly and now knows exactly where to beat its bigger foe. Which nearly leads into…
Scenario 5: between _Data’s Day_ and _Best of Both Worlds._
A Romulan spy takes home decades of knowledge on the Federation. The tables flip and suddenly the Galaxy doesn’t stand a chance anymore. The cloaks have been redesigned to evade Federation sensors, and the Galaxy’s weak points are laid bare. At least, until Wolf 359.
Scenario 6: between _Best of Both Worlds_ and _Timescape_
After Starfleet’s pounding, it kicked into high gear to replace the fleet and be ready for the next attack. An encounter here would likely be the most even the two sides can get, interestingly enough. The Galaxy at this point is armed to the teeth, with specialized shields, phasers, torpedoes, and sensors tough enough to beat the Romulans to a pulp if given the chance, and are on the hunt for that chance. The Romulans know how to hit them, and at least marginally sneak up on them still, but it’s still a coin-toss on if their less refined technology will fail them at a critical moment or if they’ll get a lucky break and knock the Galaxy’s shields down in time to land a knockout punch.
Scenario 7: between _Timescape_ and the Dominion War buildup.
This is also a close call, but oddly not for the same reasons as 6. By the time of _Timescape_ both nations seem to be at least relatively acquainted with each others’ tech, at least enough that they aren’t being coy about who can be on whose ship. While they still have some secrets, this is about as chill as the Cold War ever gets. The Galaxy and D’Deridex are about evenly matched now, with the former relying on a few, solid, reliable systems, while the latter has a massive amount of less dependable but replaceable and far more numerous systems (barring the cloak). A fight wouldn’t be quite so balanced as a coin toss though, as their differences would be most pronounced around now, which means it’s really up to the captains to decide who wins.
Scenario 8: During and after the Dominion War.
This is when we have to try and guess at how powerful the Galaxy became. The Romulans seem to have stagnated by this point, a bit offput by fighting an enemy who actually fights back (remember their specialty is in swift conquest of lesser enemies, and waiting out the strong ones to collapse. The Dominion could roll over the Alpha Quadrant if they had the supply lines, but they could only get in a small portion of their forces due to Wormhole shenanigans), while Starfleet was growing by leaps and bounds, showing the Galaxy they weren’t in a mood to fk around anymore. Remember, this is the Starfleet who could beat a Borg Cube *_conventionally._* Their new fleet and armaments challenged a cube at the edge of Federation space and wore it down to the point it was dying by the time it got to Sector 001, and just needed one good hit to kill it. The D’Deridex against a Galaxy of this era _might_ be able to win via a sneak attack, assuming they focused on taking out shields and the warp core on the first run (going for killing blows and not planning on taking anything intact), but in a straight fight or one where the Galaxy knows they’re coming? The Romulans had better hope they have backup, because the Feds were done playing games.
“But that’s just how I personally feel about it. What do you think?”
(Cookie for anyone who can name who said that.)
I think you are beign too unfair for the eariler encounters. seems the RSE had been busy else where and may not have had everything updated in regards to the federation.
Hey evernyone, thanks for all of your interest! Feel free to join the fleet at patreon.com/resurrected to get custom renders, 3d models, and sneak peaks at works in progress!
For the algorithm and community engagement. Make it so
Cool. With the animation, I would have liked to see a simulated battle. :)
The Enterprise D is outmatched against a D'Deridex in a one-on-one battle. If they declocked and opened fire immediately, the Enterprise would take too great of damage before shields came online to engage in a fight of any kind.
However, there is room for debate:
In the episode "The Defector", two of these D'Deridex were quite intimidated by three bird-of-prey warships teaming up with a galaxy class. Its extremely possible a D'Deridex doesn't do well against multiple targets without support from smaller craft. Or Klingon disruptors are much more effective against Romulan ships than we realize.
Good point - we think those Klingon ships might have been the bigger Kvort variants, back i nthe day it wasn't easy to come up with new models.
Could be a coverage issue. We've only ever seen Dbirds fire from the beak canonically, so like the Klingons, their weapons are forward -facing. Thus, three birds-of-prey can easily outflank them and shoot out the nacelles. It's a lot harder to flank a post-2340s Fed ship, which is why they hold up better when outnumbered.
@@resurrectedstarships Working on a budget does that. The history of that BoP model is that it was damaged, that is why you never see it move its wings ever again.
I think the Vor'cha was already built both in IRL and in universe. The showrunners were saving that new model for its grand appearance in the episode "Reunion" later on.
@@dragonknightleader1 That sounds highly probable. While the Enterprise tanks their frontial attacks, those BoPs can swing around and hit the likely vulnerable locations.
Its also possible that D'Deridex weapons take a lot of energy to activate, so firing in every direction weakens their overall firepower. Thus, buying their enemies more time to hit them.
@@resurrectedstarships
I can guarantee you they were very much K’Vort Class Bird of Prey’s. They were quite large and this was the Season they were introduced no less.
I think you need to consider engineering tradeoffs and rules of engagement. When you design something you usually have to make tradeoffs where being good in one area causes you to be bad somewhere else. For example, if you have lots of armor, hauling around all that extra mass may cause you to be slower and less maneuverable. The Romulan ships have excellent cloaking shields and they have a devastating alpha strike. The question is: what does that cost them? Are their ships slower and less maneuverable? Do they have weak shields and weak armor. What did they have to sacrifice for that cloak and alpha strike ability. If they are good at everything, then the ships have to be very expensive and the Romulans are sacrificing quantity for quality. You need to decide what they had to sacrifice before you can decide how a battle between a galaxy class ship and a D'Deridex will play out. If you decide that the D'Deridex is good at everything, then the Romulans sacrificed quantity and a "fair fight" might be between 2 or 3 galaxy class ships and one D'Deridex.
Another thing to consider are the Federation Rules of Engagement. In TNG, the Fed RoE prevented Federation ships from firing the first shot. The Federation policy was to give diplomacy every possible chance and to rely on their generally superior shield technology to be able to absorb an aggressor's opening volley. In fact, Picard and Riker seemed willing to allow several shots before replying in kind. Picard would go out of his way to provoke an attack when dealing with Romulans. I remember a couple episodes where Picard ordered his crew not to raise the Enterprise's shields when warbirds were decloaking so at not to alarm the Romulans.
However, the rules of engagement would have to change if war broke out with the Romulan Empire. They could not just let the Romulans have the first shot if that first shot is devastating and comes with very little warning. So, the question is: What could a Galaxy class do if it wasn't restrained by pacifist RoE? In TNG, it seems like it takes the Romulans a second or so to decloak before they can fire. If the Federation was at war, then a Galaxy class ship might keep a volley of torpedoes at the ready, and have the ship's computer fire them and jump to warp the second it detects a war bird decloaking. In any case, I don't think it would just sit there during a war while a warbird decloaked and fired.
A third thing to consider are technological improvements on the Federation side. The first time they saw a Romulan ship, it was a shock. But, they took a good look at it and what it could do. We would expect the Federation to start updating their ships to counter the new threat. On the Romulan side, we can assume that they've been spying on the Federation all along and always knew what the Federation ships could do, so there probably would not be as many upgrades over time. So an encounter between a Galaxy class ship is probably going to go different 6 years after the first encounter vs after one year.
😃
This was a cool video, can't wait for part 2!
Romulans in TNG loved to 'brag' about their superiority, but overall, the Galaxy class and the D'Deridex warbird were more or less comparable with the Warbird maybe having a bit more of an edge weapons-wise, but not enough to ensure a victory by default.
The Warbird is larger than the Galaxy yes... and while design wise they may appear 'intimidating' at first, when you look harder, they don't seem to be that special because they also WASTE a lot of potential space (aka the massive gap in the central area of the ship), whereas the Galaxy class is mostly filled.
They're very evenly-matched. The Warbird has more forward firepower, but the Galaxy has better overall phaser coverage and superior maneuverability.
19:00 Disappointed? NOPE not me! Also you just brought up politics when you didn't need to.
Agreed, the country voted and popular and electoral college was resounding proof of what the county wanted. Make Star Trek content, not political opinions.
Personally, I think the Enterprise D would win.
Beautiful video, good job , thank you buddy. I would love to see Star Trek show centered on D'Deridex 😃
What makes you think humans are the good guys?
I'll 2nd that! Even the Q are concerned about our ventures outward...
They are good because they do what is good for them.
Depends on the humans. The protagonists in canon ST series and movies are absolutely the good guys
If you want a real open and shut example of the direct power disparity here you can use the episode Tin Man. The D'deridex in that only uses that nose weapon it's not supposed to even have but it drops the Enterprise D's shields by 70% in one strafing run consisting of about half a dozen shots.
This is also the same ship that was deliberately over powering its engines in order to keep up with the Enterprise at warp, so it would seem likely that under normal circumstances with their power distributed more evenly and not shunted mostly to engines, the weapons could be even more powerful.
Bottem line is though. If you believe that the Romulans and Federation are generally speaking about technologically equal and you acknowledge that the D'deridex is, as noted, anywhere between 2-5 times the size of the Enterprise D you can only really draw one conclusion. If the D'deridex isn't more powerful, then something very weird would have to be going on with the respective roles of the two ships. That's not the case though, and if anything the opposite is suggested, that being the the D'deridex is the design more focused on raw combat performance.
The D'Deridex B Type is an amazing beauty.
The D'Deridex Engineering section is in the nose behind the navigational deflector array.
If the Romulan Warbird decloaks and attacks when the Enterprise is not expecting an attack, it's over and the Enterprise burns in space. If the Enterprise is expecting hostilities, it will last a bit longer. The Warbird will still prevail because because it has slightly better weapons, plausibly better armor, and it can still dictate action with cloakind/decloaking strategies. The Enterprise can still retreat in the second scenario.
I cannot wait for part two!
I love the Galaxy-class, but no way would she win in a 1 on 1 confrontation with a D'Deridex without getting seriously creative.
Really looking forward to seeing your outcome.
There was an episode where we see the Enterprise use rapid fire of all of its weapons against an unknown ship which was later revealed to be an illusion. It is the only time in the series that I can recall that we see that rapid fire used against any enemy. I suppose some of the battles against the Borg came close but not to that extent of aggressiveness. I wonder if that rapid fire would be effective against a Romulan ship.
The Romulan D'Deridex Class Warbird is a juggernaut. She is also three times the size of a Galaxy Class Starship.
Still baffles my mind that the ship could be that big.
But so much of that space is empty. Like it's meant to be cartmentalized if shot to pieces.
@@dragonknightleader1 Compartmentalized similar to modern warships. But also they have covert operations sections for Tal'Shiar, garrison housing sections for troops transport or emergency relief, science sections setup similar to Star Fleet with compartmentalization in mind so they could hot swap labs. There is so much vacant space but we don't have full scope on the facilities the Romulans build into the ships for the crew. I don't thing it is triple the size though it is likely triple the mass!
@@dragonknightleader1 I always considered that design to be part of their quantum singularity reactor.
But not three times the mass. The majority of the volume of one is actually hollow space. The two are actually fairly comparable in both mass and firepower. D'deridex has fewer disruptor arrays than the Galaxy's phaser arrays (6 vs 12), but they are moderately more powerful and cycle slower. They are about even on torpedo launchers. A D'deridex's main advantage is the first strike potential of its cloaking device, but theoretically, the gravitic sensors of the Galaxy's science systems should be able to detect the gravity generated by the singularity core (why no one on TNG or DS9 ever thought of that is beyond me). So, it is a more even fight than ship dimensions would indicate.
I’m not gonna lie those Romulan D’Deridex War Birds were pretty dope.
Data will always come up with some creative way to defeat them.
No worries. There's not much misery in the US compared to the past four years. In fact, the majority right now, are very, very happy with how things are going. Ecstatic even.
Romulans always have an angle. Personally I thought it would have been better to launch a shuttle and have that decloak to do the talking. You wanna keep your ace (that ship) up your sleeve. Instead they just dropped their pants. It was not strategically thought out.
That alpha strike by the D’Deridex is gonna make it a wrap…
I guess who wins could depend on if the Galaxy class is expecting a confrontation. If surprise is a factor; Galaxy doesn't stand a chance. However, if they know a confrontation is coming and have time to prepare, that deflector can put out an impressive alpha strike if needed. Which gets to the point about the SFX teams seeming to want weapons coming out of the deflector: if Starfleet which claims to be about exploration and not combat can modify their deflectors to fire a powerful weapon; it stands to reason that more warlike or combat focused powers would likely have their deflectors capable of being used as weapons by default.
My head cannon for the D'Deridex size has to do with 1. the reactor type needing special management 2. The reason the cloak worked so well. A tight emitter setup instead of a cloak "bubble" 3. in making a countermeasure to the Galaxy (it was in planning for a long time and I assume someone suck a peek at the plans), they ended up just building their own version of it.
SUPER COOL. A PROPOSAL, WHY NOT MAKE A TOURNEY OF ALL THE SHIPS AND SEE WHICH COMES OUTE ON TOP? EXCLUDE THE BORG😅
The actual consensus was that which ever ship fired first would win. The Galaxy has superior Torpedo firepower,and much better firing arcs. The Warbird has powerful disruptors.
Niether ship will survive an alpha strike from the other.
18:41 - speaking of fighters, that is one of its weaknesses, maneuvering when jumped by fighters. The Jem’Hadar fighters cut the Tal Shiar fleet to pieces in the DS9 episode, The Die is Cast.
My baby, the D'deridex is here 😍
As a side note, the quantum singularity used to power the D'deridex's many systems might have a redundant matter-anti-matter reactor, without a technical manual, we may never know. Containing and balancing power distribution would be key, or it might cause the vessel to implode in on itself, providing enough damage has been sustained or a malfunction occurs. Hell, even in STA Online, you can eject the singularity core as a makeshift weapon system.
The D'Deridex is implied to be the mainstay ship of the Romulan fleet, or at least a substantial portion of it. While the Galaxy class probably makes up less than 1/100th of the Federation fleet. If we say that the D'Deridex can overpower a Galaxy class, and 99% of the Federation fleet is less powerful than a Galaxy, with most of it being far less powerful like Excelsiors, Mirandas, etc. Then how did the Romulans not steamroll the Federation? A massive superiority in Federation numbers seems to be the most likely answer. The Romulans may have deigned that D'Deridex with asimilar mentality to the Yamato class. A warship designed to take on superior numbers, knowing that they could not match the production of their enemy. This is all assuming we are talking about a time prior to the ant-Borg ships coming online like the Defiant, Akira, Steamrunner, etc.
If I remember correctly (and not sure where the info was from) the D’Deridex was built in reaction to the Galaxy class and the sister classes that came from Galaxy Classes creation. The actual Galaxy class took an extended number of years in building and testing with other classes being created from the technology that would end up in what is the Enterprise D. The Tal’Shiar got early information on the Galaxy Class and the Romulan ship builders were tasked with designing and building something to match it. This info may be non canon now though, I’m not 1000% sure. The D’deridex has been said on screen as well as elsewhere to be extremely slower and even less manoeuvrable than almost all of the ships of the great powers in the Star Trek universe, and the type of power, coming from the quantum singularity was dangerous in a multitude of ways, it forced the ship to only be able to travel at warp 6 while cloaked or it would show up on an enemies sensors, not only that if there was any problems with the engine it upped the chance of being visible under cloak. To match the speed of a Galaxy Class it needed to exceed its limit by 30% which damaged the coils irreparably. Then there’s the dangers of it effecting time etc. I’m not sure I’d want to work on one. Like in the film Nemesis the Enterprise would be able to use its phasers to look for the cloaked ship as it did with the scimitar. I kind of think that this isn’t going to go the way of the enterprise based on the detail of this video but I think it would be very close, disrupters and phasers are in fact more different than seem to have been shown here they work differently in that phasers are much more capable when it comes to their output, and we’ve seen the enterprise use the deflector shield as a “weapon” multiple times too. I think the fact that Tomalok made sure he had an extra D’deridex with him when he did plan to have a fight and drag the enterprise back as a trophy shows that he was not as sure of his and his ships ability 1 on 1 after all and a few Birds of Prey made him change his mind quickly.
Great video on showing both ships pros and cons . I would like to propose this in another video . I know in "Yesterdays Enterprise " our beloved ship was a Galaxy class warship how much better would the odds be in her favor for this scenario.
Guy going to mars' side won: "Don't worry, this is a setback, but we will go to the stars eventually..."
Chaplins speech is from the movie "The Great Dictator" and IMO it is one of the greatest speeches of all time .
One spec that is not mentioned that is documented is ship mass. The Enterprise D is almost 5 million metric tons where the Romulan D'deridex is 4.32. This would make the Enterprise D higher density and more massive. Like steel vs aluminum.
My distinction was always that a "Disruptor" was green, and possibly based on some form of excited plasma compared to phased particle weapons like the federation's orange and blue phasers. Similarly, the fact that Klingons and the federation had the strobing red torpedoes lead me to believe they both used photon torpedoes, whereas the Romulans could have continued to develop their plasma torpedoes into something more sustainable at range, possibly developing a "standard" plasma torpedo as well as their classic "heavy" photon torpedo.
Also I think a D'Deridex would win a head-to-head battle with a Galaxy class more often than not. The ship is less maneuverable but it looks like it's better suited for a down-and-dirty slugfest with its more varied weapon array and its singularity power source. However, I don't think I could really call it one way other other. Between the D'Deridex's cloak and the Galaxy's versatility and potentially superior warp capabilities, both ships have a means of engaging the other on their terms. The Romulan ship could easily cloak and try to attack from a blind spot, but the Galaxy could potentially withdraw, set up some technobabble that can be easily explained with a simple comparison, and reengage when its ready.
Also also, think you might cover things like refits the ships have undergone in other shows? I recall there being Dominion War refits for both these ships but that might be beta canon not worth digging into.
The Enterprise has shone that even with the saucer seperate, the saucer section is capable of firing what's called an "anti-matter spread" that's ultimately harmless (at least when used against the borg). The ship could seperate and the saucer section can blanket one direction while the star drive section blankets the other direction. The intent would be to narrow down the general area the romulan ship is in while cloaked. It could even possibly damage the warbird's sensors or other soft target systems on the ship that wouldn't be protected while cloaked.
Before the Dominion War: Romulans
During the Dominion War: 50/50
The stock Galaxy class like the Enterprise-D would get pasted by a D'dex without question. However, I'd say Starfleet had refit the Galaxy match the strength of the D'dex during the Dominion war with the extra phaser strips, hull armor and quantum torpedoes. I'd like to see you include that in your analysis, also a comparison between those two and the Dominion battleship would make for a good future video.
You forgot to mention the comparative maneuverability of a Galaxy-class to that of an Incom T-65B X-Wing, they're remarkably similar despite the vast size difference.
Before the Abrams era of "Action Star Trek". Conflicts featured in the show were rarely just a slugfest of two vessels punching each other into submission. Conflicts were often won through guile rather than raw power. Starfleet vessels weaponize their advanced sensors and scientific instruments to find and exploit vulnerabilities. Such was the point of the Kobayashi Maru test, to see how officers react to a no-win scenario when the opposing force has far superior strength - You cheat to win.
Just to nerd out for a bit:
There is a marked difference between phasers and disruptors.
Phasers, as you say, emit charged nadion particles, which effectively makes them a particle beam weapon. This means that factors like the number of particles and charge amount can be changed per discharge. Disruptors, meanwhile, disrupt and break down the bonds between atoms, which not only damages a target, but releases energy.
The only reason I mention this is because Starfleet opted to develop phaser technology based on the premise that a phaser can be used like a tool, granting it greater flexibility. Think about shooting a rock: A phaser on wide beam could bombard a rock with particles and transfer the kinetic energy of those particles into heat and then a dim light, heating an entire face of a rock without eroding much of it, while a focused beam could tunnel through it or cut it in half.
A wide-beam disruptor would need to blow the atoms apart to release energy, meaning the rock would also become a sort of fuel source, and the explosions (however minute) caused, would waste a lot of energy sending atoms everywhere along with the associated sound and light.. A focused beam would tunnel through a rock, but the outcome would be like one miniature explosion after another.
We do actually use disruptor technology today in the form of UV lasers and contrary to what I just said, the results are actually very clean and precise (although only on certain materials). Swings and roundabouts, I suppose.
As I understand it the Hangars at the bottom were actually for disembarking ground units.
What i know about black hole physics and geometry, i see a Romulan in the engine room folding an origami dragon to move in subspace
That’s a big gahtdamn ship. HOWEVER, I remember seeing the first reveal of the new Romulsn ship in the first run and a few times after that and I gotta tell you, I NEVER got the sense that the D’Deridex was ever that big.
IIRC the artificial singularity that Romulans use in place of the M/AM core takes up a considerable amount of room onboard the ship, both in the reactor itself and its supporting equipment, plus isolating it somewhat from the other inhabited parts of the hull.
In all the Romulans still lag behind the Federation in most engineering sciences, especially in warp speed, and probably in shielding technology as well. The fact that the D'D needs to be 6 times the size of the Galaxy class in order to give it a fair fight at all is quite telling.
I think it depends on the mindset of both ship commanders are. If Picard is going in expecting a fight even a one on one he'll have a strategy and have back up plans and alternatives in place which would come into to play for the win. But if Picard is caught off guard and the Romulans are looking for a fight then the moment they decloak they hit fast and hard which the Enterprise could survive but would be badly damaged, shields lowered drastically, and not able to go the distance. Because make no mistake these two class ships are evenly matched and the winner will be determined by who has more time and even a better mindset for a fight.