@geesehoward4life Our contention over Oberstein aside, Japanese cultural centrism is a show that's supposed to depict cultures very different from the Japanese sounds like an interesting line of discussion. :) But I think the studio behind LoGH did a fairly admirable job in giving the Empire a 18th-19th century Germanic flavor, if only on a superficial level.
@DerOberstein Similarly, Lennenkanpt's failure to maintain order in the FPA and Reuental's rebellion were also Reinhard's fault. Oberstein foresaw and advised Reinhard against both of these appointments. Sadly, the blonde brat was a very stubborn fellow.
@russodrezden Expedited is quite right. If the Lippstadt rebellion had continued indefinitely, the situation in the Alliance could have improved and the Empire would be under threat of an Alliance invasion while Reinhard was tied down putting down the Lippstadt rebellion. That was the point of instigating a military putsch in the Alliance in the first place.
@geesehoward4life You have a very bizarre sense of "reality," but that's not really relevant. Oberstein performed the duties assigned to him. Reinhard recruited Oberstein because Oberstein had a capability to present things as they are logically without silly passions to cloud his judgment. His reasoning behind objective to Reinhard's policy of favoritism was sound; even Reinhard was able to set aside his personal feelings and see Oberstein's argument for its merits.
@Zarathustra799 As for Reinhard having to win the war as soon as possible, fact is that what happened at Westerland is a publicity victory only because the writers of the show made it so. What it actually showed was that Reinhardt is no better then the aristocracy he was fighting against. In reality it should have cost him any chance at success, if not from the commoners turning their backs on him, then from his officers seeing him for a power grabbing opportunist.
@Zarathustra799 The foundation on which you build your structure will dictate how long that structure will last and how it will fall. There is a reason that Soviet Union ended the way that it did. Oberstien's idea was shortsighted in the extreme. He sacrificed long term goals and ideals for a short term goal, that would have been accomplished regardless, though it would have taken marginally longer to do so.
i wonder what exactly you mean by that. you could be criticizing the way in which the soviet union developed from stalin onwards as a series of stupid shortsighted mistakes that resulted in this impoverishment of power, ending in the total collapse of this force. simultaneously, you could not be talking about that at all, and instead is just saying that communism as a whole is a shortsighted, extreme ideology that cannot stand the test of time.
@Zarathustra799 How is the situation in the USA today different from the FPA? The fact that the FPA was in the struggle to survive would cause the common soldiery and lower ranking to take drastic and violent action to stop the brass from losing the war. Historical examples: World War I where Russian soldiery killed off their incompetent officers and accepted temporary loss of territory in order to restructure things at home. Vietnam war is a good example.
@geesehoward4life That's not relevant to the point Zarathustra made. He's stating that Westerland contributed to destroying the morale of the war potential of the Lippstadt rebels. This gave Reinhard's faction as advantage in infiltrating and securing Geiersberg which could have held out indefinitely.
@geesehoward4life Nonsense. Why should they launch an investigation to explain something Reinhard already knew? Reinhard consented to Oberstein's objection to Reinhard's practice of favoritism, this resulted in Kircheis getting killed in an unfortunate freak incident, and Reinhard accepted what little responsibility he had for Kircheis' death because it was ultimately Reinhard to agreed to Oberstein's objections in the first place. It's actually pretty straight forward.
@geesehoward4life Assuming Reinhard really was the charismatic natural-born leader the show depicts him as, then Reinhard would most certainly NOT have thrown a hissy fit and hold one of his loyal retainers responsible for an unforeseen outcome caused by a decision Reinhard HIMSELF made. As a man who took upon himself the responsibility of taking charge over the whole of the Empire, Reinhard did what he naturally should have done. He took responsibility for his OWN decisions.
@russodrezden You're repeating the same stale argument used by Mr. Geese depending on conjecture of the supposed intentions of the writers to explain away a part of the plot that flatly contradicts the notion that Oberstein gave an order without Reinhard's knowledge that killed Kircheis.
@geesehoward4life What's your point? Reinhard appointed Oberstein as an adviser. It was Oberstein's JOB to give Reinhard the advice Oberstein thought was most productive for achieving Reinhard's goals. Reinhard was the one who agreed to treat Kircheis the same as the other admirals so the responsibility for indirectly creating a situation where Kircheis might die was and will always will be his, not Oberstein's.
@Zarathustra799 As for historical examples, look at any revolution and see a pile of corpses of officers/people in charge who thought they could manipulate the situation for their own ends, and found out that the people doing the fighting are not too keen on being used by those on their own side, since they are revolting against those who where using them in the first place. I personally like the examples of the October Revolution and the following civil war in Russia.
@DerOberstein While geesehoward4life tries to engage you in a conversation, my responses are not emotional and use nothing but facts. I have just explained why Oberstein's advice was flawed and faulty. And the reason why Reinhard did not punish Oberstein for giving the order that got his best friend and better half killed is because the writers of the show pulled a deus ex machina and made it so.
@geesehoward4life When the context of Oberstein's promotion and increased prestige in the Imperial Fleet is considered, it makes the argument that Reinhard consented to Oberstein's advice far more coherent than your own position. Reinhard evidently didn't hold Oberstein responsible for Kircheis' death in any way, form, or fashion. Therefore it is plainly clear that "All right, drop it" was Reinhard giving his consent to Oberstein, deciding Kircheis' (unforeseen) fate himself.
@geesehoward4life @geesehoward4life You're basically asking me to repeat myself now. "Alright, drop it" could easily be interpreted as Reinhard consenting to Oberstein and telling him to leave him alone about it. Admittedly, this interpretation isn't enough alone, so when combined with the fact that Oberstein was magnanimously rewarded by Reinhard after the Lippstadt rebellion, it's plainly obvious Reinhard didn't think Oberstein was to blame for it.
@geesehoward4life Wow. :o That was a very long tirade but all you did was run away from the original argument. :) The fact remains that Reinhard consented to Oberstein's advice and therefore Reinhard is the one responsible for Kircheis' death. Evidently however much Oberstein's advice "bit" Reinhard, Reinhard thought Oberstein was just as important as Reuental and Mittermeyer in his conquest of the galaxy, so your negative personal opinion of Oberstein is pretty moot.
@geesehoward4life Fascinating, but you're still running away from the original argument. :o What does this have to do with Reinhard's culpability in Kircheis' death?
@geesehoward4life Oh, so you concede that Reinhard agreed to Oberstein's advice but was "manipulated"? Sorry, but while I am glad you're starting to reconcile with facts, that is just a weak attempt at passing the blame. Reinhard is the boss. Reinhard repeatedly insists he won't take orders from anyone. Reinhard took Oberstein advice and Reinhard takes the responsibility for it. That's how a chain of command works. The Imperial Fleet isn't a group of undisciplined thugs.
I really liked Bittenfeld in this show, whenever he shows up on screen you know something fun is gonna happen.
Or some character will be killed. And he would regretably withdraw because he hasn't killed enough.
怒りを抑えて抗議するミュラーに対して有無を言わさぬ正論でぶった斬るオーベルシュタイン。さすがドライアイスの剣
帝国すなわちラインハルトの軍…これを言われたらね。
誰も逆らえません(｀･ω･´)ゞ
ウランフやフィッシャーはじめ何人もの同盟の名将を倒してきたビッテンからしたらこれまでの自分を全部否定されたようなもんだからそらキレるわな……
ビッテンはともかく、ミュラーも怒りを抑えている表情なのが
「要塞対要塞」で負けた事言われちゃったからねえ
やはりワーレンは年長者だからオーベルシュタインのやり方には納得していないけれど、大人の対応しているよね。この前にオーベルシュタインの思惑を知ったワーレンが「やっぱりか」とため息をつくところが好き
やっちゃいかんがキレるのもわかる
この後のビッテンの面会で棍棒でも持ってきてくれたのかの台詞が好きです
ラインハルトよ…。何故この2人を
セットにした…。
失敗続きでも昇進する奇跡の人と、夜な夜な鶏肉を買いに行く義眼の人じゃないか。
塩沢さんの最高のハマり役！！
エリア88の真も忘れないであげて〜
牡羊座(アリエス)のムウもお忘れなく。
@@user-sf3oh6wg1hさま
それをいうと「ブライガー」 のキッドもですね(笑)
@@puu-sanさん
それをいうとＲ・田中一郎も(笑)
@@puu-sanさん
それをいうと､「究極超人」のＲ田中一郎も(笑)
嫌味でもなんでもなく事実と正論を淡々と話すオーベルシュタイン
彼と言い争うのは絶対に無理！
there's a reason Bittenfeld's soldiers follow him with such dedication, he's one of the men to them.
この後、オーベルシュタインの名演説が続きます。
「帝国は皇帝の私物ではなく、帝国軍は皇帝の私兵ではない。皇帝が個人的な誇りのために、将兵を無為に死なせてよいという法がどこにある。それでは、ゴールデンバウム王朝の時代と、何ら異ならぬではないか」
これを初めてアニメで視聴した時、私は「オーベルシュタインも怒る時が有るんだな。まぁ、当然か」と思ったものです。
Oberstien: a true machiavellian.
残酷と言うよりは冷酷だな
嫌われ役ではあるがこの様に正論を掲げる立ち回りもまた必要なのかも…。
正論を吐く嫌われ者、それがオーベルシュタインの存在意義です。
やつは、私心がないのを最大の武器にしているのが気にくわない。ビッテンフェルト談。
ワーレンの「おわぁ！」が秀逸
ぶりぶりざえもんが同じセリフを言ったら確実にひき肉にされている
ハンバーーーーーーーーーグ
同じ声優？？？ と、気づいたら笑えてきたじゃんかｗｗｗ
南斗水鳥拳でバラバラよ！
貴様らの血は何色だ！と叫びながら！
？？？「大攻勢です」
そういうパロディ版いいですね。
オーベルシュタインの言ってる事は正しい・・・相手が誰であろうが、言える度胸が好きだね。
血の気の多いビッテンフェルトにすら物怖じしないんだからね～
ラインハルトにすら言っちゃうからね
Whom else thought Oberstein got laser vision from the preview for this episode
Nickerino me
good to see i wasn't the only one who thought that
この前のやり取りで、人質を利用してヤンを降伏させるという案を聞いた時の「やはりそうか」とため息をつくワーレンのリアクションがおもしろい
正直、軍首脳陣の中で一番まともな人物で
温和な人柄や器量を考えると
ミッターマイヤーより次期宰相に相応しい
ミッターマイヤーは皇帝第一の軍部偏重で
カール・ブラッケやオイゲン・リヒターら
立憲派の閣僚と揉めそうな予感しかない…
普通にまぁ碌でもない作戦だからな。
人道的にもどうかって話やし人質なんて。
元帥に襲い掛かっても上級大将になったり、国家の役人のラングの殺人未遂をしても元帥になれる帝国ってすごい。
好きですよ、二人とも。
しかし、オーベルもあんな表情するのねｗ
連年失敗続きにも関わらず階級が上がる奇跡の人、ビッテンフェルト提督
"If people were completely evil or good like they show in TV, I wonder how simple the world would be."
-Yang, probably
This video has the best title in the history of ever.
I'm here for wonderful Shiozawa Kaneto's voice, bless (and rip).
0:38 ここ義眼にノイズが走ってるの細かい。
For somebody so smart, Oberstein had no idea how to deal with people.
It's called "autism".
誰に対しても（オーベルシュタイン自身にも）敬意を払わないオーベルシュタインのこのやり方・会話センスは、はたして彼自身が目指す目的のために賢い手順だったのか、今でも疑問には思う。
ギャグマンガじゃないんだから、
身体に血管とかが出てきたらいかんアニメなのだが、
ビッテンフェルトだけだから許せる。
「ビッテンフェルトだから許せる」
説得力がありすぎる名言だｗ
敵以上に味方から嫌われるド政論者の鑑
RIP youtube annotations.
@geesehoward4life
Our contention over Oberstein aside, Japanese cultural centrism is a show that's supposed to depict cultures very different from the Japanese sounds like an interesting line of discussion. :) But I think the studio behind LoGH did a fairly admirable job in giving the Empire a 18th-19th century Germanic flavor, if only on a superficial level.
組織に必要な人だよねオーベルシュタインは。
実際リップシュタット戦役後のリヒテンラーデ討伐時に、卿は敵に回したくないものだとミッターマイヤー元帥（当時は上級大将？）に言われているあたり、他の将軍たちも彼の優秀さを認めている。ただオーベルシュタイン自信も、ミュッケンベルガーには陰気だけら好かれていないと話すなど、自信の不気味さは気づいている模様。提督連からは圧倒的な力を持つ怪物のように見えるのかもしれない。だからこそ恐れ嫌うというのが根底に感じられる気がする。
オーベルシュタインは嫌われ役だとわかっていて、あえて正論を吐く辛い立場だと思う。
ラインハルト軍は、彼がいなかったら暴走してたと思うよ。
ほぼ武闘派しかいないのだから
文官も出来る人材は居るけど文官の人材が極端に少ないし
文官も出来る人材は軍務も優秀なんで専念出来ないし絶対数が…って印象…
キルヒアイスが生きていたら、、、
この言葉に尽きますｗ
水島裕に野田圭一、そして塩沢兼人....中身がギュッと詰まった演技。
なぜ最近の声優はスカスカなんだろう？？
今の人気若手声優はタレント声優。レジェンド級と比較するのは可哀想ですよ。
cony gony その3人でも結構演技力差はあるけどな。水島裕さんや堀川りょうさんクラスならば若手トップにちょいちょいいるよ。なんなら旧の古谷徹さんとか池田さんは正直トップクラスの若手より演技力に関しては低いし。
塩沢兼人さんクラスはそもそもこの業界でごくわずかな数しかいないので若手とかベテランとかで言えるところじゃねぇな。
人生楽しく生きよう 根拠もないそう言えるのはすごいな
最も若手がも根拠もないが
物語では嫌われ役だが実際の軍隊でいたら兵士から感謝される人だよなあ。
オーベルシュタイン以外は戦いしたい！っていうタカ派ばっかりだもんな
俺も1兵士の身分ならオーベルシュタインを擁護するわ
@@user-ub2fr1rr4l 七十数年前のどこかの国はこんな感じだったのでしょうね。
レッドペーパーで召集された人はたまったもんじゃない。
yosh i 一番苦労するのは最前線で敵を殺す一兵卒なんだよね
司令官は死ぬ可能性は一兵卒に比べたら低いし、帝国なんて物量あって勝てるし楽しいんだろうが、苦労する兵士からしたら勝ち戦でも嫌だわ
あの世界って艦隊がバンバン墜ちるやべー戦いだし
オーベルシュタインは恐らく作中で一番ラインハルトに忠実だったと思います。
そうか？
イゼルローンの連中が来なかったら非戦闘員処刑しろよ、って兵士に言っているも等しいんだけど。
ヴェスターラントみたいなことがまた起きないか？
常に冷静沈着なオーベルシュタインが表情が変わってる。でも、仮に新作がここまで進んでもオーベルシュタインの表情は変えないんだろうね。
新作は細かい動作監修する人いないから無理だね。新作のラインハルトのワイングラスの持ち方も間違った持ち方してたし。
ほんま残念。
あとで笑ったりするよ
わりと感情豊かになる
オーベルシュタインかっこいい
オーベルシュタインの灰色のマントをキルヒアイスが着てた世界線の帝国はもっとホンワカしてたのかな？
極端に言えばオーベルシュタインが嫌いな人間は若い子供で、好きな人間は老いた大人。子供は英雄が好きで大人は参謀が好き。だから皇帝も手玉に取る元帥の才気に快哉する。
何と言うか、実際にいたら仲良くなれないし絶対に嫌な奴だけど、実績あるし仕事出来るし何なら他の口だけの嫌味な連中より話が分かるから、何とかなしに好意は持てるよねオーベルシュタイン。大好きには絶対になれないけどイザって時は一番頼れる。
@大川内武志 ムライさん「呼ばれた気が・・・」✖2
私はガキの頃からオーベルシュタインが好きでしたよ。
@DerOberstein
Similarly, Lennenkanpt's failure to maintain order in the FPA and Reuental's rebellion were also Reinhard's fault. Oberstein foresaw and advised Reinhard against both of these appointments. Sadly, the blonde brat was a very stubborn fellow.
オーベルシュタインが正しい
俺がワーレンかミュラーの立場だったらビッテンフェルトを止めなかったなぁまたは止めるフリをして顔を踏む…軍法会議か？(笑)
相手は元帥閣下ですからねぇ。そこはある程度の罰があるでしょうね。
帝国印絶対零度のカミソリ･･･人々の敵意を一身に集めることでラインハルトを帝王成さしめた･･･確かにその通りなんですが･･･言い過ぎです
That had to happen...
草刈りを実施した時点で、ビッテンフェルトたちとの衝突は避けられないことも、事前に想定していたはずじゃね？
その通りで想定していた、というよりそれを狙っていた。戦いでは戦功があるんだろうが、もう戦いもほとんどなくなった状況ではこの口喧しい猪はただウザイだけの存在でしかない。口実さえあれば粛清してしまう方がいい。
I need to rewatch LOGH
I rewatch it every year and i enjoyed it every time
暴行働いて、謹慎で済むのはある意味凄い
謹慎で済まさないと確実に暴動が起きるからなあ。
有象無象はともかく、戦闘力においては帝国最強の黒色槍騎兵艦隊が暴れ出したら、ただではすまん。謹慎でも暴動起きかけたけど、「謹慎で済ませるから」と言うことで無理繰り収めたし。
0:33 貴様ァ！！
@russodrezden
Expedited is quite right. If the Lippstadt rebellion had continued indefinitely, the situation in the Alliance could have improved and the Empire would be under threat of an Alliance invasion while Reinhard was tied down putting down the Lippstadt rebellion. That was the point of instigating a military putsch in the Alliance in the first place.
ここで謹慎喰らう程煽ってないとヤン艦隊の被害は不明になるわ、地球教の襲撃もどうなったか分からんのが本当に歴史書の面白さまである銀英伝は神やで。
オーベルシュタインの言っていることは間違ってないよね。さすが「有無を言わさない理由をつけてくる男だ」
だが、誰も支持しない不思議。
@@puu-san
ド正論なんだけど、感情とか義理人情が一切ないから敵を作る。
だが、合理的で国のためを考えると、オーベルシュタインのやり方はまちがってはいない。
すべての人が笑いながら生きるということが不可能なのを知っている。
ミスター正論の圧勝！
人間は曖昧で勝手な生き物だからこそ、正論は人を傷つけて時に怒りを買う。
ここまで私欲なしに目的のための原理原則を語り、問答なしに人を動かせる人間は殆どいないから、オーベルシュタインはキャラが立つね…
機械のように冷徹なキャラっていそうだけど、徹底できるのはそう多くない
fritz's punch to break paul's jaw!
冷酷さが自分にも向いているからみんなぐうの音も出ないんだよな。
Bittenfeld is always exploding.
Poor Oberstein :(
正論だけどあまり好きにはなれない。まぁ自分が悪いところを引き受けてるから憎めないけど。
@geesehoward4life
You have a very bizarre sense of "reality," but that's not really relevant. Oberstein performed the duties assigned to him. Reinhard recruited Oberstein because Oberstein had a capability to present things as they are logically without silly passions to cloud his judgment. His reasoning behind objective to Reinhard's policy of favoritism was sound; even Reinhard was able to set aside his personal feelings and see Oberstein's argument for its merits.
@Zarathustra799 As for Reinhard having to win the war as soon as possible, fact is that what happened at Westerland is a publicity victory only because the writers of the show made it so. What it actually showed was that Reinhardt is no better then the aristocracy he was fighting against. In reality it should have cost him any chance at success, if not from the commoners turning their backs on him, then from his officers seeing him for a power grabbing opportunist.
Spot on
@Zarathustra799 The foundation on which you build your structure will dictate how long that structure will last and how it will fall. There is a reason that Soviet Union ended the way that it did. Oberstien's idea was shortsighted in the extreme. He sacrificed long term goals and ideals for a short term goal, that would have been accomplished regardless, though it would have taken marginally longer to do so.
i wonder what exactly you mean by that. you could be criticizing the way in which the soviet union developed from stalin onwards as a series of stupid shortsighted mistakes that resulted in this impoverishment of power, ending in the total collapse of this force. simultaneously, you could not be talking about that at all, and instead is just saying that communism as a whole is a shortsighted, extreme ideology that cannot stand the test of time.
I really didn't like Bittenfeld for the longest time. But at the end of the series i really liked him.
What on Earth is going on in this comments section?
@SiorafasNaCillini
I think Bittenfeld "exploded" in the comments section. ;)
0:33 Oooh S-H-I-T 😲💥!
Bittenfeld just got TRIGGERED 😤💥!!
@Zarathustra799 How is the situation in the USA today different from the FPA? The fact that the FPA was in the struggle to survive would cause the common soldiery and lower ranking to take drastic and violent action to stop the brass from losing the war. Historical examples: World War I where Russian soldiery killed off their incompetent officers and accepted temporary loss of territory in order to restructure things at home. Vietnam war is a good example.
@geesehoward4life
That's not relevant to the point Zarathustra made. He's stating that Westerland contributed to destroying the morale of the war potential of the Lippstadt rebels. This gave Reinhard's faction as advantage in infiltrating and securing Geiersberg which could have held out indefinitely.
オーベルシュタインは好きだけど、この時はビッテンフェルトと一緒に殴りたくなった。
でもビッテンフェルトの部下だと無駄死にしそうだからミュラーの指揮に入りたいけど笑
草刈りを実行したからといって、ビッテンフェルトたちが大人しくするわけがなく、彼等との対立も避けられないことくらい、オーベルシュタインもある程度予測していたのかもしれません。
お前、ミュラーかルッツだろ？
@geesehoward4life
Nonsense. Why should they launch an investigation to explain something Reinhard already knew? Reinhard consented to Oberstein's objection to Reinhard's practice of favoritism, this resulted in Kircheis getting killed in an unfortunate freak incident, and Reinhard accepted what little responsibility he had for Kircheis' death because it was ultimately Reinhard to agreed to Oberstein's objections in the first place. It's actually pretty straight forward.
組織には嫌な奴が必要なんだな
「(とりあえずイス直しとくか)…」
@geesehoward4life
Assuming Reinhard really was the charismatic natural-born leader the show depicts him as, then Reinhard would most certainly NOT have thrown a hissy fit and hold one of his loyal retainers responsible for an unforeseen outcome caused by a decision Reinhard HIMSELF made. As a man who took upon himself the responsibility of taking charge over the whole of the Empire, Reinhard did what he naturally should have done. He took responsibility for his OWN decisions.
wow 10 years ago, replies are branded as comment you still alive bro?
@@_mariko791I think so. Thanks for asking.
忘れてはいけない事が一つある。キルヒアイスを間接的に殺したのはオーベルシュタインだという事を。
@russodrezden
You're repeating the same stale argument used by Mr. Geese depending on conjecture of the supposed intentions of the writers to explain away a part of the plot that flatly contradicts the notion that Oberstein gave an order without Reinhard's knowledge that killed Kircheis.
I hope they will remake the same scene mate
0:33 The Chinese version of saying what:
言っていることは正論だ。正論であるがゆえに、周囲との間に軋轢を生んでいる。
@geesehoward4life
What's your point? Reinhard appointed Oberstein as an adviser. It was Oberstein's JOB to give Reinhard the advice Oberstein thought was most productive for achieving Reinhard's goals. Reinhard was the one who agreed to treat Kircheis the same as the other admirals so the responsibility for indirectly creating a situation where Kircheis might die was and will always will be his, not Oberstein's.
So hes pretty much like the filter of the gas mask reinhard is wearing.
@Zarathustra799 As for historical examples, look at any revolution and see a pile of corpses of officers/people in charge who thought they could manipulate the situation for their own ends, and found out that the people doing the fighting are not too keen on being used by those on their own side, since they are revolting against those who where using them in the first place. I personally like the examples of the October Revolution and the following civil war in Russia.
@Grimgerde i think Bittenfield is the sole reason why the Kaiser lost to Yang Wenli lol
@Zarathustra799
I assumed he misclicked and was talking to me. :) I am "Oberstein Jr" afterall. :D
@DerOberstein While geesehoward4life tries to engage you in a conversation, my responses are not emotional and use nothing but facts. I have just explained why Oberstein's advice was flawed and faulty. And the reason why Reinhard did not punish Oberstein for giving the order that got his best friend and better half killed is because the writers of the show pulled a deus ex machina and made it so.
@geesehoward4life
When the context of Oberstein's promotion and increased prestige in the Imperial Fleet is considered, it makes the argument that Reinhard consented to Oberstein's advice far more coherent than your own position. Reinhard evidently didn't hold Oberstein responsible for Kircheis' death in any way, form, or fashion. Therefore it is plainly clear that "All right, drop it" was Reinhard giving his consent to Oberstein, deciding Kircheis' (unforeseen) fate himself.
What episode was this again
Episode and timestamp?
0:36 xdddddddd
@geesehoward4life
Why not? What does this have to do with Kircheis' death and who is culpable for it, if anyone? :)
@geesehoward4life
@geesehoward4life
You're basically asking me to repeat myself now. "Alright, drop it" could easily be interpreted as Reinhard consenting to Oberstein and telling him to leave him alone about it. Admittedly, this interpretation isn't enough alone, so when combined with the fact that Oberstein was magnanimously rewarded by Reinhard after the Lippstadt rebellion, it's plainly obvious Reinhard didn't think Oberstein was to blame for it.
0:35 xd
@geesehoward4life
Wow. :o That was a very long tirade but all you did was run away from the original argument. :) The fact remains that Reinhard consented to Oberstein's advice and therefore Reinhard is the one responsible for Kircheis' death. Evidently however much Oberstein's advice "bit" Reinhard, Reinhard thought Oberstein was just as important as Reuental and Mittermeyer in his conquest of the galaxy, so your negative personal opinion of Oberstein is pretty moot.
新右衛門さん、殿中でござる！
ビッテンフェルトが激怒したのは、原作でも触れられているが、自身のことより、ラインハルトを批判したことへの怒りだった。堂々と批判してみせる辺りがオーベルシュタインの凄味ではある（なにせラストにはラインハルトを囮にして「どうせもう死ぬのだから、次の皇帝のために地球教殲滅の役に立ってもらう」としれっと言っちゃうからな）
我慢強いミュラーも声に震えがある。
何処となく、石田三成対武断派諸将のイメージ。三成は秀吉に諫言はしてはいないし、オーベルシュタインはどちらかと云えば本多正信に近いが。
余談ながら、ミュラーに話しかけるオーベルシュの手前で、倒れた椅子を直しているフェルナーの演技が細かい。
@geesehoward4life
Fascinating, but you're still running away from the original argument. :o What does this have to do with Reinhard's culpability in Kircheis' death?
Oberstein still did nothing wrong
Strange. All of my comments were flagged as spam. :o
オーベルシュタイン=石田三成 なのか？
ウォルシンガムだと思う
What episode is this?
やってしまえば良かったのだ
@geesehoward4life
Oh, so you concede that Reinhard agreed to Oberstein's advice but was "manipulated"? Sorry, but while I am glad you're starting to reconcile with facts, that is just a weak attempt at passing the blame. Reinhard is the boss. Reinhard repeatedly insists he won't take orders from anyone. Reinhard took Oberstein advice and Reinhard takes the responsibility for it. That's how a chain of command works. The Imperial Fleet isn't a group of undisciplined thugs.
But he did not explode?