Was I WRONG About Weaver? I Tried WEAVER Part 2 - Thoughts (Guild Wars 2)
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Me looking for a new character to try:
- Hoh boy, what can I try now? Let's check the Crows...
*Looks at weaver opener*
- Hoh boy, what else is there?
Gone are the days of piano, the 'I push F3' Fresh Air Tempest is now the true way to play Ele: you use the same 4 second cast-time skill as often as possible and it does the most DPS of any build in the game.
Fr3shymentalist build
I love that skill.
Mr. Mystic just posted a video of his low intensity power Tempest build where he does exactly that (plus a bit of sword auto) and gets 41k DPS lol. Truly one of the builds of ever made.
I just leveled up my tempest and using it to solo all hot hp. Im using condi burn for now. Maybe later ill try also power. I have no problem with class being easy and fun to play and that comes from Mech main. Tempest ofc needs some adjusting but problem is when Anet comes with sledgehammer and fine tunes it same as Rifle Mech :)
@@sanguin3I mean it was pretty much the same way back in HoT. Only difference was that you had to use lightning hammer and staff lol
I guess the weaving Crows that like snow are going to weave your kneecaps, lol. The intro and outro are the best.
The Snow Crows mafia made Muk an offer he couldn't refuse.
Personally, I thought you were completely right in your concluding statement the first time around despite the misunderstandings you had about it. In terms of DPS the game is fairly balanced, but the moment you look past DPS at what the specs actually DO it's a fucking fiesta.
as someone who mained elementalist through the entire game I agree. It feels really bad being locked in melee range all the time with the lowest health and defense of any other class and having to use al your utility skills for dps just to keep up with firebrand which uses all its utility skills for utility
I'm upset I spent all this time and effort learning Power Weaver to the point I can be top dps in most groups, when now Tempests are spending half their rotation afk while overloading air and can outdps me.
Weaver, like deadeye, is one of those classes where going faster is hard because you can easily go too fast with certain parts of the rotation
Weaver: *playing Beethoven's Third*
Tempest, getting higher DPS: "Haha Fresh Air go BRRRR"
"Am I wrong about Weaver?"
"No. No, it's the children who are wrong."
The last time I tried playing weaver my hands ended up looking like they were made by AI.
You grew an extra finger??
@@SnaccHBG I had no choice. It was the only way.
thank you for doing this video (and the last vid on weaver), as it states much more elegantly what I've been trying to say for years.
Yes, weaver can do comparable damage to other classes or even outperform them by a slight margin, if you play it perfectly. But it feels like even with 80% of effort you will only get 20% of the results. And to get these results, you sacrifice everything, meaning versatility in terms of range, survivability, cc and utility (both, group and personal). So yeah, you can keep up or even outperform other classes in exactly one aspect, if you play out of your mind, but the others will always bring those other aspects to the table, which will trump anything you can provide. And on top always be more survivable just by virtue of having more hp or higher armor.
In order to balance these trade offs, either weaver would have to outperform them damage wise by like 10-15k/s when played perfectly, and do practically equal damage with no effort, or weaver should finally get mayor buffs to its access to utility which is readily available and still do the same damage, eg. not requiring those utility skills for damage and have "oh shit" buttons there instead, with at least half of the guard F3 skill utility each (and/or an ammo stack for each of them).
(I'm exagerating a bit ofc, to make my points clear. I don't want a totally OP ele, but one which is actually as strong other classes)
having to play at least 30% objectively better than everyone else just to keep up, is not rewarding game play or good game design.
Agreeing on all wot you say.
I love ele, especially Tempest spec., but its really chalenging to play it.
Totally for a bit- overpowered Weawer✨️🐣✨️
somehow i was in both streams when you tried weaver, and as a weaver main for 5 years, youre 100% correct in most stuff, and if you weren't it was clearly a problem that many will have with the class, i dont take you as a standart player and yet you struggled, and i feel like most normal weavers will be with you, its just that weaver attracts the same type of player that plays thief
I agree with you, but I would have liked if you added that JW ele spear could make it way better than it currently is. Power ranged DPS is a huge advantage that only virtuoso truly has. The spear (assuming it will do good DPS) will make Weaver a top DPS build to run.
Elle player since the start of GW2. This video can be cut at 0:23 sec cause that's all the necessary information.
It's a great class if you want to do something difficult or if you desire to become a piano player but if you want results, there are far easier ways to get them.
Also as an Elle player I would love an overlay like Guitar Hero to get the timing right of some builds even if it only works at the training dummy ;).
BlishHud has a module called Dance Dance Rotation that might function like this!
There is an overlay called GW2Clarity that lets you select skills you want to highlight and place them anywhere on the screen at any size and control how they light up. Before my GW2 break I was using it a lot on Untamed to keep track of when Unleash was available, as well as keep track of all my necessary boons, it was phenomenal. Hope it helps :)
@@samuelvine That's definitely a nice tool. Thank you for pointing that out to me. However, I think it is a little different than I meant. I mean seeing the skills move towards your skill bar and arriving there at the moment you need to press them followed by a little animation that shows if you did it in a wrong, good, or perfect timing.
@@sprained5 :) lol ah ok, yeah that sounds really cool, now i get what you meant by guitar hero lol. hopefully you'll find that kind of addon floating around somewhere :)
If you want to become a piano player, learn playing the piano
When I was looking for elite Elementalist speed I took one look at weaver and said no way. Glad I was right there
The only spec I’m willing to play is Tempest lol I feel you
Of the elite specs, Tempest feels like the natural progression from Ele. It’s a blessing for those who want to play Ele but can’t play it “properly” (me) due to disability. Being able to stay in one attunement (not the down one) and thriving is a blessing. Plus I just like setting things on fire.
I love elementalist and specially weaver. My main character is an elementalist, but when it comes to group content, it’s just not worth the effort. You basically have a rotation 3 times bigger to deal damage close to classes that press 2 buttons
if you can do good damage at the golem, but you can't do the same outside the golem, there is only 1 difference, you either have or don't have boons, so the supports are not good enough to keep 100% the boon uptime.
sadly theres a reason that my elementalist has taken a back seat to scourge and virutoso for all group content. Be it healing or damage.
Agree with your take. And personally, I hate any build that has to track auto attack chains because it’s such a pain to do with everything else going on during fights.
you should try power tempest next, very ez to get to 38k+
sadly its because anet said '' it doesnt matter how hard ur class is you should be at same level as easiest class '' so basically asking do you wanna play X class that does 30k with 25 buttons or Y class 30k with 5 buttons . only reason for these days to play ele , enjoying ele , other than that theres no reason to play ele .
Teapot said in a recent stream that Anet shouldn’t be balancing around difficulty, but around how much of the build needs to contribute to damage. Weaver has all utility skills dedicated to damage while Virt can splash out into powerful utility. I’m inclined to agree with him.
Mukluk: "I really dont like auto attack chain, it is basically you not doing anything, I liked when i visit fire to use skills" ... ALSO MUK " I see the weave self rotation and I can't today, instead let me try this 1/3 of the rotation and I hope you make me do 100% of the damage" ---- " I got 20k auto attack chain, 26k doing what the rotation says (ofc not as fast as the rotation is) and 29k smash the keyboard".
It is like...... you don't like auto attack chains because you are not using skills , but when you see the weave self rotation and you actually have to press skills , you also don't want to press skills.
Don't you see the pattern? in order to do damage you need to use your skills, after you press your skills you need to start paying attention to the class buffs, weaver depends on the fire buffs from persisting flames 10 stacks (10% damage) + Element of rage (7% dmg when double attuned to fire or air in this case) + Weave self rotation( 20 secs of 10% damage + extra 10 secs if you complete the 4 elements but the problem is , you dont want to visit the 4 elements before the 20 secs , you want to keep the buff until the last second and then perfect weave, to gain the extra 10 secs of 10% dmg, if you complete the 4 elements right away, you replace the 20 secs for the last 10 secs of the perfect weave) +10% if have swiftness ( if you check logs you will be surprised how low the swiftness uptime sometimes is) + relic of firework ( 7% dmg IF and ONLY IF you keep using skill fire 5, air 4 or 5)
If you combine only the extra % of damage you find that you have 10 % flames + 7 double attune +10 weave + 10 swiftness + 7 % firework = 44 % bonus damage.
Some people say but weave self is only 20 secs and 30 if extended. Well..... VG have phases of 20-30 secs, gorseval have phases of 30 secs or less if the group is kinda good.
44% bonus damage -> If you auto attack only you lose 7% from relic 10% from flames, 10% weave self and hope that your support give you swiftness 100% uptime. and you have only 7% bonus damage. From 44% bonus damage to 7 %.
I agree completely on how despite the effort and not having any utility, that it is still comparable to other damage dealers.
A class like this, much like thief, should be heads and shoulders above the rest on the damage department. Why would ANYONE pick weaver over Virtuoso? Or tempest?
If a class sacrifices EVERYTHING for damage, then there must be pay off.
Using an Auto Chain to time how long you need to wait for something is actually pretty smart though. As long as you're using the same class and weapon, the timing is consistent.
In an MMO like GW2, just because a playstyle is "complex" doesn't mean it's good.
Like you said, why would I ever play DPS Ele when I can bring any Engineer build with a TON of utility to work with (We don't do Grenade Kit around here).
I recently pointed out to a newer player who was starting an ele and was questioning his decision that the reason it has a high difficulty rating was that you have to memorize 45 skills and how they interact with each other and that it gets harder when you add in elite specs. Though I also pointed out that there are builds where you park in one attunement (thanks Muk) amd can do just fine.
I like the fresh air rotation. you start double attuned to air, use all damage skills, then fire/air use sword 2 and 3 and primordial stance, fire/fire use all skills that are up that do damage. water/fire use sword 3, then double tap f3 for full air attunement again. and thats like the whole rotation. It also makes CC easier. any time you need to CC double attune to air use 2, 4, then earth/air and sword 3 for a little more.
Its simplier than bolt to the heart and has more quality of life. But elementalist in general needs better utility.
It having the lowest health, lowest defense, and being locked in melee all the time while just keeping up with classes that take 5 utility skills that are all actually utility feels bad.
Sorry for my english (i'm french), but to my opinion people don't like Weaver because they don't play him AS a Weaver. The genius of Weaver is not in a special domaine , but in his capacity to adapt to ALL type of situation in real time, so after the opener you should'nt have a too fixes rotation. Weaver is as thé water, it's not a big dps or sustain or anything but at the end he his still alive and you not because there is non situation out his adaptation faculties. Therefore it suppose to use the four elements, so to be celestial or half-celestial. And plus it suppose to adapt the rotation to the present moment, so to have a technic but intuitive way of playing. Astuce : use Sword, because it's emergency capacities are immediatly on the left bar, this allows to adapt in real time to the situation as i explained 🙂 conclusion : at the opposite of the common opinion the Weaver is good above all as a duelist, not in pve high level because if you want to ne specialist in a group, so if for exemple you want to do dps take a virtuoso and not a class made for activate a maximum of very different in a limited Time. The more power full perks of Weaver consist in switching in a very fast way from a élément to another, in synergie for exemple with arcana perks.
Main elementalist here. I can easily make Mukluk words, my words. He was 100% right in the first video and 200% right in this video.
I play ele but the thing i dont like about weaver is that out of most of the classes weaver is extremely dependent on quickness and alacrity for its rotation
fun fact about the like extension, it either shows representative data from before likes were removed (its more accurate on old videos) OR On newer videos it complies data based on its users and throws out the new statistic. it can be a pretty misleading tool.
thanks for the video!
Just a few things I’d like to mention. If you need the water cc you don’t have to hit water twice, just once and then any other element (so if you know a lot off cc is coming you can hit water, then hit air to have air 2 and water 4, then if it isn’t broken yet hit earth for the dual skill and air 4). However it’s usually not needed anyway with changing arcane blast to wave. With that, most dps classes don’t exactly have a ton of cc anyway and the top healer builds atm have a ton of cc to cover it.
I do agree ele utility skill lack utility compared to many other classes. I do wish they’d revisit this at some point since their weapon skills aren’t as overloaded as many other classes have. At least running warhorn you have fire 4 if your group needs help with boon uptime and quite a few healing skills in water during times where you can’t hit things.
I do think they over nerfed weaver over the years given the melee nature and lower utility. Plus the new bench marks are crazy on everyone.
bro youre fine. im ele main and u were right.
I am also rewriting every guide that i want to try to match my understanding.
Its like GuildJen but with pictures of each skill + just for having it the name of the skill.
Makes it for me easier to follow the rota then just a bunch of 1. to n. with a tiny picture and the name like we have on snowcrow.
for pve i just want to play glass cannon ele camping fire attunement with a staff (like the typical fire mage available in every other MMO!)
and until recently i've just stuck with core builds, but recently i tried weaver and found that with fire as my main attunement and earth as the off-attuenement you get a wonderful skill called Pyroclastic Blast which is basically a second Lava font on 15 second cooldown.
so now that is my "fire staff mage" ironically using weaver without swapping attunements.
you lose out on meteor shower but you get another damage skill with half the cooldown, you also get an immobilize!
Glad you found a fun build that matches the role play! I hope you have an appropriate flame-mage outfit to match
Just wanting to point out with people that can do like 20k or over with support with 5k-8k dps still alot of stuff can be compeleted without doing most top things classes can do. And now may u have an good day 😊
As a weaver purist, who only plays tempest when I really need to as an adps. Anyone who says otherwise to what you said before are being deaf because they got their feelings hurt.
Weaver is super fun if it's for you, and it's for me. That's why I play it, but the matter of fact is if you are purely looking for result and payoff for your effort weaver is not it. Of course anet should reward the absurdity that you need to be a weaver main but we don't really live in a dream world.
I also commented this on your video before, but to anyone who is new and is an ele and wondering what elite they should get. If you want result get tempest. It's a literal no brainer.
Current top bench, Can adps, can aheal, is tanky on open world. Tempest is the shit. but I will always pick weaver because of how smooth juggling the skills are even if I'm getting beaten by two button classes idc, I find weaver fun and that's it.
This feels like "Why I hate weaver part II"
You kinda said it in the first video, if they did more damage, than the people at the higher skill end would be nutty. And iirc, historically that's what ele used to be. Highest damage in the game, but very hard to pull off. And anet saw that damage on the high end and have just continually nerfed them through the years, so now you have to put in a lot of effort to keep up.
Muk is right about the issues with using the actual skill name.
If you look at the FGC, a huge majority of the time, they use simplified notations for their move-lists.
We're pressing buttons, not chanting wizard spells, casting jutsu, or what have you.
Pretty fair from you to do an addendum on this build, even if you don't change you mind.
I personaly think Elem in general is pretty poorly designed (or at least not in line with other classes). Like you said, it's a lot of effort for not much reward.
Il be really ok if someone like you can reach a 30K DPS for this but only if top elem player could reach like idk 50k. Yes it's really high but it's also really hard to pull out. that why i hated Release pMech, Soto's Scourge and current Tempest. They do high damage but they are braindead to play (nota : from a necro main, i hated my own class xD), where next to them the elem (beside Tempest atm) is a nightmare but could bearly compete with them.
Please Anet buff do something to reward those who master it (like the weather skill is a good idea but more powerfull and punishing if you failed condition).
Not like you couldn't to it. Weaver has the Elite, you could do something similar in, for exemple, Arcane trait line, who suppose to buff attunment switch. for Catalyst you could change sphere behavior to match this cause currently it's a better reward if you stay in one element (!?)
I used to like old condi weaver rotation, when it was a 4 page longe on all element rotation (now it's more simple outside of the weaveself). And something like that a step higher than other DPS doesn't sound that crazy to me. (it wasn't or not by a lot i know)
Even not only on dmg wise but why not on utility wise to? Aegis, stab, vigor, or even barrier or some dmg reduction or buff with it's Aura mechanics? They got some, i agree... but at some point if feel like Scourge get easier group stab than Elem... And you know what muk say about sand trail? xD
i think they want to avoid this part to prevent another "Banner Slave" meta like we use to get on warrior :/
It's just random ideas throw at the wall, i'm not game designer but 4 year i'm seriously into the game and was more casualy since release and Elem always feeled like a joke at this point :/
I know it's not as easy as it sound like but the last Elem buff kinda miss the point imo
This class deserve some love :/
It doesn’t help that I hate half of the weapon skills to the point where I just don’t want to play ele anymore.
I'm an ele main, but I'm not saying this out of biase. I agree that Weaver could use some help, but it was always meant to be a greedy solo class for dps, like daredevil and virtuoso are. I just think that this shows how much the game gave everything to some classes. The Weaver isn't as much of a problem as some other bloated classes are. It's stupid how some classes need other classes to function and do what they are supposed to do, while other classes can solo group content.
I remember Lara saying something like balancing weaver is hard because any boost to mid level ele will drive the performance of the top range through the roof
The only mistake I noticed: Weaver CC F2 => F3 => 24 => F4 => 34 for 650cc
That cc rotation has small delay because you must wait cooldown to attune to Air. Tough depending on what part of rotation you are you can just use Air 4 right away.
As a long-time Elementalist main, it took me years to really "get" the muscle memory on Weaver, so I don't fault you for not being good at it immediately. It definitely appeals more to people who like rotational play, perhaps someone who's played other MMOs that focus more on skill sequence than GW2 does. I 100% agree with the assertion that Elementalists have an unhealthy design around their "utilities", as most meta builds only run raw damage utilities in order to keep up with other classes and each build only has 1 truly viable Elite Skill choice.
It's clear that ANet hasn't really known what to do with Weaver since its release because both the two latest weapons, Pistol and Spear, play poorly on Weaver. While Pistol Weaver is super rewarding if you get it down, the practical rotation is impossible to do outside of the training arena. Spear just simply ignores that Weaver exists because all the Dual Attacks do **nothing** and rip you out of dual attunements. I think this just comes with having to conceive and design too many buttons at once.
I used to be a weaver main and I agreed with your first video.
I enjoy the power tempest build A LOT more, very thankful to the balance team for the latest buff.
If you haven't tried, I'd suggest you to!
I just hope that it doesn't get too popular because anet will then most certainly trash it again
Pfhahaha. The only dps everybody is using is condi virt.
Agreed. It's almost scary to me that it's benchmark Landes nearly in the middle and not the top or bottom of other benchmarks. Like, we're they always capable of thus? Maybe condi builds are just harder to balance but it's so rare to have a good benching mostly-ranged power build if needed (taking scepter instead of sword since I dislike ele sword)
see this is my problem with the "meta."
The good "meta" builds become overused, then get nerfed. There's almost no point in farming up the gear for a good build because you know it's gonna get the nerf hammer.
@@dalebrimhall1071 it's actually not that hard. Problem with condi specs (in pve) are opponents which have a lot of invulnerability phases. The reason y condi virt is top tier dps is: mesmer utility, 1200 ranged dps, easy to learn. That's it.
@@theslayer5978 that and the cleave potential. If you can align mobs in a straight line, its basically full dps on all of them because of the piercing
Revisit support specter (yes, watching you suffer is fun too) - Set up a personal target swap as most guides suggest (I do Alt-R to bind, ctrl-R to take back) - you might have different opinion without the clunky clickswaps.
Hi :) I main weaver for ~2 years now and I love it to bits. That being said, the dps is underwhelming, any utility is hard to get to if you don't include it in your rotation by default and doing so costs you a big chunk of that already underwhelming dps. I main it because I love the kit sword/dagger brings, being able to turn into lightning to move quicker and having a few interrupts at my disposal is very fun to play with. I would never, ever recommend this class to anyone that wants to do group content and/or anyone playing while keeping an eye on dps. If your sole purpose is to enjoy what you're playing however, as is mine and you don't mind the downsides that come with it then by all means give it a try! P.S. Anet needs to get their sh*t together regarding Ele, all other games feature elementalists as glass cannons, GW2 feature us as glass but they forgot all about the cannon part. (at least in regards to Weaver) Have a nice day xD
I gotta say i agree with your take...i actually really do enjoy the feel of the rotation and the playstyle and the way the attunements flip and slide over and cycling through all the different elements...but man i sure work hard to not do as much damage as Untamed, and with half the survivability. I play it solo in open world sometimes when i cant hurt any teammates around me, but i always go back to another class wishing i could get more out of Weaver. I really want it to be good and it's just so high threshold to actually be really good that it's prohibitive.
I main weaver sword/dagger and i hate ANET 1. We never get what we want 100% of time its a buff and nerf at the same time so nothing changes ever... 2. We have 0 boons that we can provide we cant even give are self quickness or alac ( no untily at all ) switch anything out for utility and its bye bye dmg... 3. Water element healing is way to freaking low to use and it also does pure shit dmg... Yes i have used warhorn in place of dagger no its even more shit atleast with dagger i can drop dps a bit for some more CC but on warhorn its all down the drain... Weaver needs more buffs and not buffs and nerfs at the same time 42k dmg is never ever gone happen unless you micro seconds perfect timing... Fix? Make macros... To have perfect timing then you can hit 42k anyways have not even looked at the next balance patch as i know its gone useless again or just a nerf to make playing weaver even more of a pain... I can make a working macro that wil also work with quick and alac and without it but that means im dropping all CC ( in other word's become a class cannon ) dont fell like doing that
hey muk. I know you're not going to 'try the condi build', and that's totally fair, but as for your point about not enjoying auto-attack chains, I totally agree. the reason why I love the condi weaver build is that you're always thinking about other spells your casting. it's MUCH less reliant on autos, pretty much not at all. just in case you were interested, that's my way of avoiding that playstyle as a LONG-time weaver main
Ele main here. I've never liked power Weaver, but I've found a lot of casual success with scepter/warhorn condi Weaver.
You get to rotate through fire > fire > earth on loop and hit everything* that lights up, no auto chains or Weave Self needed. Still has CC/utility problems compared to other classes, but at least it covers the "do damage" part of your job description without too much trouble lol.
As a casual open world ele main I'm also doing fine with condi Weaver. It's a celestial sword/focus build, but the same back and forth between fire and earth. It's geared around me being solo, but looking at the dps charts at big events I'm also in the middle of the pack, so at least I'm not holding back the team.
I like it, it's fun, has the "master of elements" fantasy that a wizard should have imo. But not gonna lie, my condi Virtuoso is so much easier with a better performance (mainly in fractals).
Still, love both.
@@Damarus914 I love cele sw/f Weaver for open world too! It's genuinely fun and feels like much more of a melee bruiser than I ever thought an elementalist would.
Have you tried scepter focus condi weaver?
well if you'd like to bake a bread but want to make the oven, gather a firewood yourself instead of buying it off ebay, sure, you should play weaver
@9:01 ah, so when it comes to using tidal surge, you DO NOT in fact need to swap to water twice. Weaver is strange but easy once you figure it out, 1 and 2 is the first element you use, 4 and 5 is the one you used before, example, starting fire fire. you swap to water, now its 1 and 2 water, 4 and 5 fire. Swap to earth, you are now 1 and 2 earth and 4 and 5 water. Water 4 is tidal surge. you can still rotate but you do still have to swap twice, but you DON'T have to swap to water twice.
Following the picture you provided above, to access all CC, starting at Air Fire... Use skill 2 (polaric leap), swap Earth, use skill 3( gale strike) AND skill 4 (Cyclone), Swap water.. attack... swap fire, use skill 4 (tidal surge). Doesn't have to be in that exact order but based on that, you can get a lot of cc out quickly if you plan your attack when cc time pops up.
Weaver is definitely hard but the more you learn about it and put time in the more you realize its simple, as you probably said already lol
Edit: about the utility, what about combo fields? weaver almost always have combo fields up, so whenever combo fields go down from other players a weavers will be up providing fire dot damage for players to proc, healing combo field with warhorn 5, Sand squal in earth EXTENDS ALL boons for 3 seconds on you and ALL allies. Heat sync copies all 25 might stacks and fury duration to other allies. There is a ton of utility imo. Just not the utility people think or care about.
Hey muk, I'm glad to see you revisiting classes and builds you didn't think were great, and I'm sorry that you had to try weaver again first. Would you consider trying power alac tempest and heal quick deadeye, since they got buffed after you finished the series ?
I believe the whole point of your series is to just introduce people to to specific specs. That normaly they are afraid to try. This video just proves that weaver,or elementalist in general needs more attention than the average.Joes like me who is working 10 hours 6 days of the week,doesnt have time or energy to learn it. I main a necro and i love it. It lets me enjoy the game even when i am crazy tired and have 1 hour to play,just to relax. Brainy people shouldnt be so upset when average ppl dont get elementalist. Its for them to show the rest of us how good they are and say TY that we support the game
Lemme preface by saying I absolutely love Mukluk's vids and raid guides. But I'm having trouble understanding one thing here: I play a healer 99% of the time as well, but I don't understand the conclusion part about wanting a dps (not a boondps) to provide all that stuff I'm supposed to be providing. Most of the time, a dps wants boons (and heals), they should stay close to me, and even a boondps is only responsible for the one boon (quick or alac) that the healer isn't providing.
I've noticed Anet seems to be really terrified of making high effort specs deal proportional damage to that effort. They must believe it will collapse the social expectations of the skill floor and give rise to toxic mindsets or something.
I can't imagine why they might think that🤔
Anet is correct on that
i'm a huge advocate for balance in games, but i also believe that higher effort/risk should have higher reward. if a build requires more effort and more mastery, it should perform better than other builds, but not to a point that it brakes the game or makes it op. builds like weavers, bladesworn, condizerk and etc, should have higher benchmarks than other builds, that if u mess up u doing less dmg than other balanced builds, but if a player perfectly execute, specially in hard fights, that should pay off in the numbers. The big issue with gw2 balance is that hard builds do at best the same amount of dmg than other builds, and the best number performing builds for the most amount of encounters are the easy execution ones, patch after patch, when they nerf one, the next one is kinda the same. before everyone was playing condibrand, then it was all scourge, now its all virtuoso. ppl will always gravitate torwards whats the most efficient = less effort + high reward, and its the game's fault for allowing us that.
I still recommend trying fresh air version. Less dmg, but easier. Also anytime you mess up/need cc you can just quickly go air/air to reset/cc and you are just back to the loop.
The fact that Waever is so complicated that Muk has to do a Part 2 for the first time just shwos how wild and confusing Reaver is. So if you dont like ele and playing rush e on piano at the same time Reaver is really not a fun thing for you. I dont play ele but I can understand that people like classes or build with a really high top so that they work up their skill but reaver I think is to much of that.
As someone that has wanted to give ele/weaver a fair chance at becoming my favorite since day 1 but is still not capable of pulling off the SC rotations: I’m glad I’m not alone lol. However, I’ve seen Vallun and other pvp/wvw players finish off other players in the blink of an eye on weaver and it didn’t look like they needed to faceroll the keyboard to pull that off. I’ll give that a try someday, but maybe you’ll change your mind about weaver if you narrow it down to its role and playstyle in pvp/wvw? I also wouldn’t mind seeing you make a video for dummies like myself on how to pull that off ;)
I was expecting a 1min Video with you just saying Nope, and then some Avatar Dancing... Dammit I was right 😂
The only reasons I play weaver is because I have fun and it is the only specialization in Ele I can kill enemies without having to ask for help from others. I'm not good at it, but as long as I have fun that is all that mattets
Elementalist was one of the first professions I built in GW2 those many years ago. Read on...
When that toon reached level 80, I chose Weaver as her elite. I had seen the wonderful, WONDERFUL work of Weavers on UA-cam and wanted to be like them. I knew it was going to be a grind. My friends were very understanding and practically carried me on their backs so I could get the hero points to complete the spec. Read on...
I tried my Weaver. I tried builds from many successful weavers. I failed miserably at weaver. Weaver is a hard elite profession that was too hard for me. Read on...
So, Weaver is the only profession I have played that cost me 500 Hero Points to play it.
250 to get Weaver and 250 more with my still understanding friends to drag me through more content to build out Tempest on that toon. I can play Tempest.
Weaver is for the dps that spend the entire fight looking at their skill bar only to die 10 seconds into the fight because they didn't avoid a mechanic.
the moment ele starts fighting, there should be a guitar hero overlay
when i tried to get into weaver, i did the exact rotation they had on snow crows and after like 30 minutes, i was doing like 30k on the golem.
i still hate it, because its SO intensive to play and i hated it every time i had to move. it was good dmg, but so high apm. not chill at all. meanwhile i can absolutely hakuna my tatas on reaper, virtuoso, or vindicator and just have fun.
So for me, weaver was fun for a day. then i dropped it.
Not going to lie. I would like to see a Weaver main do this rotation. But yea I agree with Muk. This looks like a lot of effort and almost Zero utility for a bit more dps. I will stick with Tempest.
search roul he is/was one of the snowcrows benchmark people for elementalist.
@@westcoastwarriorsarchive7929 will do i think i am subed to that guy
I've been an Ele main since I started playing GW2 around 10 years ago. I love Tempest and Catalyst. I do not like Weaver much lol. It is definitely a class thats there for people that wanna do crazy inputs but it is a lot of work for a damage output that is about the same as even other ele classes that can get to it easier with more utility, let alone other classes in general.
I still full support the reason mukluk plays asura as his main is that arena net and the crows cant take kneecaps that barely exist.
3:27 I still don't understand why you can't look at the tooltips and find them on your bar. That's what I've always done
Because that actually requires effort.. most people can't be bothered to actually read their skills lol. They just want to keyboard slam and do top dps, personally I'd be bored to tears doing that. The title of this video should be "I don't understand how to play ele, and because of that, I don't like it" lol
snow crows should list the weapon skill number. you cant even imagine doing the rotation in your head as you read it.
Thank you for revealing that elementalist is counter intuitive and sucks
and this is why if i get the itch to play a weaver i would just grab a staff, viper gear and say "2 3 5 breath in Earth 2 3 fire 5 fire 2 3 5 breath in" with the ocasional fire storm glyph and my fire ele raining fire on cd, sugnet healing skill, and either arcane missile for the fire field + projectile combo, lightning flash, earth signet or air signet, and fire signet for the crit.
i don't even know how much dps this wpuld do, i just say it easy and somewhat low intensity for my adhd to handle
The elementalist would need a complete rework... for example, keeping the damage on weapons and removing the damaging skills 6-9 and implementing utility skills instead of those.
Or, limiting the attunements to the selected trait lines, for example, if I choose the fire-air-weaver trait lines, I would only be able to attune to fire and air.
By doing this, it would be easier to balance, and there would be less disparity between those who spend their lives on it and those who try to engage but perhaps work 8 hours a day...
But it's ok, I watch muk with love while crying on my ele, as always
As a weaver main I am upset! Now you must ascend and try condi weaver; the hammer rotation is very chill :)
I see you were coerced by the Elementalist's Villainously Irritating League, many of us have been through that. Personally I'd have enjoyed ending the video at 0:23, but I understand the pressure from the League; I hope they're appeased.
You start learning the rotation by just changing attunements. Then layer on the other buttons on top.
Check out Mr Mystic’s condi weaver button mash build…..
Dont care anymore! Being a weaver main is behind me. Im vindi now!!!
(loved the video ;D )
Weaver is hard AF to play.. I main Ele and I don't touch weaver. Honestly I think the coming spear will help immensely because it's amazing range feels like it will synergize well with weaver so I plan on giving the setup a try.....
...but don't be surprised if I run spear catalyst.
1:48 is there your head uncut because you got shot in it in the picture before?
btw love the video. I rly like weaver, but if i want to play something serious i just swap out to any different class, since they can still do more with less... i wish weaver would at least did like 5k more dps for all you have to do, with zero utility and survivability
You're not wrong. Tempest is the best Ele elite spec. Weaver and Catalyst are just too complicated to get anything good out of it.
Maining solo weaver for years in pve and he is correct. Defiance damage is weak and the amount utility for group efforts is tiny. They have a lot of self utility but they are so squishy I still feel all the time.
The first time I played Guardian, I was dumbfounded that I could solo champions. 😢
I don't wanna be a meanie to the elementalists out there. But if you have to make a part two just to explain why you don't like it. Already there it proves to me that you need to invest more work in this class to get decent at it. Compared to other classes. It might do more dmg if you're crazy good at playing piano. But for a new player this is crazy complicated IN COMPARISON to the rest.
I've always wanted to play an elemental, but I hate that you have to constantly change elements (to be viable)
It kills it for me. I really hate that there is no way that the trait trees synergize eachother, beyond auras or boons.
I want to be an avatar.
Well boy do I have a build for you. Check out the snow crows guide to power tempest.
Weaver is for people (like me) who get bored with standard rotations. They're so fast paced, while everything else (except maybe Untamed) feels uncomplicated and to some of us, boring.
For what it's worth my condi weaver with no external buffs or debuffs (completely solo) can finish the dummy with 21k dps.
Now it absolutely had zero utility outside of MAYBE warhorn F4 and E4, a couple minor heals on W4/5 but at the end of the day, it's just damage. Good damage, but just damage.
Look, I play Weaver. The game gives me 26 attack skills (including dual attunement, excluding chain attacks) and I'm going to use them all whether you like them or not.
Guardian and Ele have the same amount of base HP (about 11.5k) without vitality gear (jade core, dragon stats, +180 Vit from DH)
same HP pool on thief too
thief and guardian get more defense from armor though.
i totally agree on all you said, there's just so much wrong about this class
no utility, no tankyness, does same dmg as any other dps
it's dumb to have to count to three 20 times a minute to not mess up attack chains.
eespecially since it's .5 .5 .75 second which makes it even harder to get the timing right.
i want to be ele main, but it seems like a failed class to me.
i hate catalyst, tempest is boring with the overloads.
weaver can be fun, but only if you play it inefficient which is kinda stupid. like i think you should be able to use all 4 attunements at any time without losing 10k dps
Ele from GW launch, It seems the devs from the start wanted to make an all around total package for every situation in the game, from this perspective obviously they couldn't have a class that maxed all aspects of the game DMG, boons, heals etc. then everyone would just play Ele. Kicked more than most for not passing the one job rule, many times I have pulled out wins in a clutch because I could switch from offense to defense, boon support to recovery or whatever I needed to do to make progress. If your timing is off or your anticipation of situations suk playing Ele would be like nails on a chalk board, get these right and Ele can be a fun and exciting class to play IMO. Just give me Weapon swap and some boon strip on my spear, I Implore the devs every chance I get, it's not too much to ask, is it? =)
Turn auto-cast off on button 1 and vouila! You have not auto attack. All action
All I hear: Dragonhunter and other classes that do massive dps AND supporting stuff need a massive hit with the nerf bat.
But then Guardian is THE pet class of anet. It is ridiculous and to be honest, destroys my joy in the game.
Remember when we used to play games for fun...
It’s not Weaver that’s the problem! It’s every other class that’s wrong! 😂
what browser were you using? looks pretty slick and clean
I thought the EXACT same thing about Weave Self
weaver is the first elite spec I ever played in this game, imagine my reaction when I picked up literally any other spec
that was me with scourge.
what? I can actually look at the boss without having to constantly glance down at my cooldowns?
I do hope he tries FA tempest, it's such a good build xD
May redeem dps ele in his eyes^^
he doesn't like ele, neither pressing skills, so i doubt he like that build.
Personally I love sword/dagger weaver for OW content but it's definitely not for everyone. Would I take it into a raid? Probably not.