Maynard Ferguson's superbone had piston valves that were played with the left hand. He frequently used both valves and slide together. This was back in the 1970s.
I think the greatest thing about it is that he says it balances nicely on his left hand because most other brands of superbones are balanced quite strangely
I don't think I have ever heard a superbone/valve trombone sound so good, clear, and not "chocky" when the valves are employed. Usually, even with the slide employed, they so9und like stuffy euphoniums
As a person who actually purchased this amazing instrument it's truly a dream to play!! Quality valve and slide action!! Best versitile trombone in the world!!!!😎🔥🎵
OMG. I've been playing trombone since 1998, my 5th grade year. I currently play for a local concert band. I would love to try my hand at something like this. Such a wonderful sound.
Absolutely correct. Decades ago, Ashley Alexander was a phenomenal exponent of the "double trombone" as he called it (presumably for patent/brand copyright reasons?) His POWER SLIDE album is amazing in his seamless combination of slide and valve techniques. . I'm surprised Schagerl can call it a "SUPERBONE" - would have thought that was a Holton trademark..
I have a SUPERBONE with valves. I can play songs using both valves and slide. Maybe with this horn you can play faster, but my horn was affordable for me. The original HOLTON I believe was priced at $3500,far more than I could afford.
Oh a wonderful instrument, adding the qualities so sorely needed in a valve trombone! nice demonstration! I foresee other mfgrs working with this design, as it will catch on quickly
Would love to have one of these. Have been looking at superbones for about a year and can't decide which to buy. But this horn looks and sounds amazing. Thanks for sharing James.
@@lswain1 Ehhhhh. If I know anything about valved instruments, depressing all the valves would essentially be the equivalent of pulling an F-attachment out into the key of E, which you can essentially do on any old trigger trombone. Sure you'll get that low B, but it'll be thin in tone, hard to reach for some people, and super sharp no matter how far you extend the slide. It would be like getting a dependent-valve bass trombone, but worse. You get the F-attachment with valves 1&3, the F#-attachment with valves 2&3, but you can't combine the two to make a D-attachment. A 4th valve, substituting as an F-attachment like it does on a 4 valve euphonium, is a MUST on a Super-bass-bone. Valves 2 3 & 4 would be the equivalent of depressing both valves on a traditional bass bone, giving you the traditional C in flat 3rd and B in flat 4th, and depressing all 4 valves can actually get you a fairly sharp C-attachment, letting you play low C in flat 1st and low B in a very flat 2nd. This, to me, sounds much better than playing the same low B but out of tune in the lowest 7th position possible.
It actually may be. Turning the palm toward the player would engage the bicep more fully, which would take some of the strain off of the elbow and shoulder. That same rotation would also put the forearm bones in a neutral position for easier motion of the fingers and put the wrist in a stronger position to support the instrument as well. Now that I'm thinking about it, it actually makes a lot of sense. Of course this is all said without having played one to know how the valves feel or how heavy or well-balanced it is in the hand. My mind reels with the possibilities of an instrument like this...
I am playing trombone and Euphonium/Baritone. so a Superbone sounds perfect for me. But I have never played the valves with my left hand and I am a right hander. Does anybody have experiences about that. Is it difficult to learn to play the valves with your left hand? Does it need a long time?
I guess it depends on you, but I think you'd be surprised how quickly you'd pick it up left-handed. A few years ago, I spent several hours a day for a month straight learning a very difficult "chip trick" flourish which involved manipulating five poker chips with my right hand. Never once did I practice left-handed until after I had mastered it with my right hand (which, again, took me about 100 hours to get smooth). When I did finally attempt the trick with my left hand, I was able to do it on my second try. You might want to experiment with the French horn, since that's a left-handed brass instrument. I think you'll find that you have more difficulty adjusting to the French horn's tiny mouthpiece than you do learning to play with your left hand. Good luck!
hello love your work on the trumpet i am 58 years old i started playing the trumpet in 3rd grade 38 years ago am back playing but am having trouble in the high range i have false teeth now and i think its hurting me to get the high range can you tell me what i need to do to get my high range back thank you.
If you're referring to the glissy quality, valve trombones already did that. This combines the 2 and gives the trombone on the whole a greater, more reachable potential.
In my opinion, it certainly doesn’t to the extent of a normal valve trombone which ditches the slide altogether and is more of an excuse rather than a trombone. This keeps the slide, but adds a bunch more functionality with the valves.
Alexandros Georgievski I read somewhere that Ashley had his superbone customised, maybe different bell and valve section. Could you let me know specifically what he did to his? I own one too, was thinking about changing the bell to be more like a traditional small bore.
I've seen James Morrison educational video on halfvalving technique. Does anyone know could this sliding sound be done using halfvalving technique on rotary valves? Do those valves work for halfvalving in general? And yes, thank you Mr. Morrison for your great videos!
I know I'm several years late to the party, but this is a pretty good idea. Putting the valves on the left hand should be more intuitive for Trombone players. Rotors are faster and produce a sound more similar to articulating with a slide. Hand positioning is fairly ergonomic. I'm surprised this isn't the standard for China clones by now.
Yes not to mention trills and even playing/balancing this trombone with just one hand like a trumpet. I actually purchased this amazing instrument and it's so much fun to play. Most versatile professional tenor trombone in the world😎🔥🎵
"Schagel Embrochure will follow in 10 equal parts" .... Makes you wonder why no one thought of this before .... didn't Maynard have his own "superbone" also?
It definitely is possible it's just that no one bothered inventing it yet😢 Tenor Superbone is rare as it is. I have purchased this Schargel Superbone and it's a dream come true!!
Three valves are absolutely necessary if you're going to play without using the slide. A trigger just lowers the pitch of the slide, it's not used independent of the slide.
@@unpeople Exactly I totally agree!! In fact it adds an extra E attachment achieving even lower notes if you press all 3 valves down. This is way better than any other trombone.
Remember that with any "attachment" horn, the slide positions are different for the straight horn and for the attachment side. You've got to practice to get the adjustment down, and trombonists rarely use the trigger for notes above the staff. With this, sure, you essentially have a _7-attachment_ horn, but that also means 8 sets of slide positions. To really utilize all of them would require tons of practice. After all, on a straight horn, it's somewhat rare to use longer positions as you get higher in your range. James Morrison seems to have the right idea: play it primarily as a valve trombone with some slide effects, or as a slide trombone with the valves used in spots where you want clearer articulation. Remember that the valves will be less and less useful the farther out on the slide you go: they just won't add enough tubing.
You could transpose a melody into a different key just by moving the slide to a different position and playing the valves exactly the same. Almost like using a capo on a guitar
Not exactly. When you push down a valve, you add a fixed amount of tubing to the length of the horn. Those lengths are calculated based on the slide being all the way in. As you move the slide out, you need to add proportionally more tubing to get the next lower note. So if you say, play a G in fourth position with no valves, then you push the second valve, you'll get an F# that is a little sharp. Or if you press the first valve, your F will be quite sharp. What it would amount to is having to adjust your slide position a bit with each note to adjust for the not-quite-right length of each valve section. With practice, you could probably do it, but it'd be way harder than capoing a guitar, where all the positions stay the same. The longer the slide position, the harder it'd be. Darn physics....
You can give this guy a tissue box and he'll still sound better than any of us
As someone told me years ago, “It’s not the arrow, it’s the Indian.” You can’t buy talent.
No lies were found here
Don't tell the brass band composers or they'll absolutely write the shit of this instruments improved clarity and speed.
Too late :)
Angus Marsh Brown please don't
I don't really want to write for one of these, if I'm honest. EIther way, I hardly ever arrange for Brass Bands. Usually orchestras/big bands
Soprano Alto Tenor Bass and Contrabass Superbones
@@maxalaintwo3578 and baritone
His smile at 3:07-3:08 when he looks at the superbone shows how truly happy he is with it
“I’m smiling a lot 'cause this is so much fun to play.” That's the line that sold this for me, I've been saving up ever since.
AS A EUPHONIUM PLAYER WHO SWITCHED TO TROMBONE, THIS IS HEAVEN😍
frrrrrrrrrrr
I couldn't even begin to imagine getting used to that.
Valves and a slide
This is too much power for one player to have
Too much power is just enough!
Holy crap. I had no idea that thing would be so in tune with both the slide and valves. That's insane.
my brain would explode if i tried to use this superbone.
Maynard Ferguson's superbone had piston valves that were played with the left hand. He frequently used both valves and slide together. This was back in the 1970s.
This is a Rotary Version
May be fun, but probably difficult as hell. I would get mixed up jumping from slide to values!
Bass trombonists do this all the time, but normally only have two valves max.
I think the greatest thing about it is that he says it balances nicely on his left hand because most other brands of superbones are balanced quite strangely
James. I 'm smiling cause its so much fun to listen to you.
TAKE MY MONEY!!!
@SinisterMinister 💀
Mendini sells one on Amazon for around $500.
But it has piston valves instead of the rotary valves on this one.
Where can you buy one of these?
I don't think I have ever heard a superbone/valve trombone sound so good, clear, and not "chocky" when the valves are employed. Usually, even with the slide employed, they so9und like stuffy euphoniums
As a person who actually purchased this amazing instrument it's truly a dream to play!! Quality valve and slide action!! Best versitile trombone in the world!!!!😎🔥🎵
Right on that's good to hear. @@Aaron-Qman
OMG. I've been playing trombone since 1998, my 5th grade year. I currently play for a local concert band. I would love to try my hand at something like this. Such a wonderful sound.
this man looks so happy
Direto do Brasil, espetaculo de instrumento! É meu sonho de consumo!!!👌👏
Absolutely correct. Decades ago, Ashley Alexander was a phenomenal exponent of the "double trombone" as he called it (presumably for patent/brand copyright reasons?) His POWER SLIDE album is amazing in his seamless combination of slide and valve techniques. . I'm surprised Schagerl can call it a "SUPERBONE" - would have thought that was a Holton trademark..
Awesome instrument!! I'm loving this combination. It would take time to get used to it.
The trombone just took a big leap forward.
Two words: Maynard Ferguson. It's a piston valve instrument but listen to Ferguson play it. He is second to none.
As a trombone who was called out in high school for turning into a horn player, I think I've found my dream instrument
Truly a beautiful innovation.
It's a very versatile solution. I liked the idea.
Yes this is the most versatile professional trombone in the world!! I have purchased it and it's soooo much fun😎🔥🎵
What a shame that the video editor chose a close-up around 2:50 so we can't see his use of the slide and valves together.
I'm a trombone player and this looks so awesome i need one so badly :)
This is one of the coolest things I've ever seen
I have a SUPERBONE with valves. I can play songs using both valves and slide. Maybe with this horn you can play faster, but my horn was affordable for me. The original HOLTON I believe was priced at $3500,far more than I could afford.
+philipme109 Can you tell what brand it is? I really interested in getting one, but I don't know what brand to buy. Thank You
On a budget? Try the Karl Glasser for about $1000.
I got a super bone watching this
Silas Baird greatest comment ever
Boner
Where can I get one of these? I'm completely serious.
I want a trombone with two valves ... 1for sharp- 1for phlat
Holton makes one too(with pistons though), designed by Maynard Ferguson.
Do you have $10,000 lol
Karl Glasser makes one for about $1000 in case your just interested in the novelty. I'm a trumpet player just fooling around.
You can buy one with piston valves on the sears website, it even comes with a case.
Oh a wonderful instrument, adding the qualities so sorely needed in a valve trombone! nice demonstration! I foresee other mfgrs working with this design, as it will catch on quickly
I'm getting my first Schagerl TB-420F Venus Trombone on June 1st, 2024!!! I'm like a kid waiting for Christmas Day!!!!
At last the search is over!!!!!!! A trombone that just doesnt let you down!
I haven't played trombone in years and I want this.
I'm also smiling! What a wonderful piece of "T-bone"!
Would love to have one of these. Have been looking at superbones for about a year and can't decide which to buy. But this horn looks and sounds amazing. Thanks for sharing James.
We need a firebird version of this too!
You are one AMAZING musician James Morrison!!!!!
James, you ARE A MAD GENIUS!
James Morrrison flat out amazing. And this Superbone has got to be from another planet.
MAKE A BASS TROMBONE VERSION
if they wanted that they probably would just add a 4th valve probably
@@hanj31 No, it already has plenty of valves for bass trombone range. It just needs a larger bore (.563").
Super duper-bone
@@lswain1 Ehhhhh. If I know anything about valved instruments, depressing all the valves would essentially be the equivalent of pulling an F-attachment out into the key of E, which you can essentially do on any old trigger trombone. Sure you'll get that low B, but it'll be thin in tone, hard to reach for some people, and super sharp no matter how far you extend the slide. It would be like getting a dependent-valve bass trombone, but worse. You get the F-attachment with valves 1&3, the F#-attachment with valves 2&3, but you can't combine the two to make a D-attachment. A 4th valve, substituting as an F-attachment like it does on a 4 valve euphonium, is a MUST on a Super-bass-bone. Valves 2 3 & 4 would be the equivalent of depressing both valves on a traditional bass bone, giving you the traditional C in flat 3rd and B in flat 4th, and depressing all 4 valves can actually get you a fairly sharp C-attachment, letting you play low C in flat 1st and low B in a very flat 2nd. This, to me, sounds much better than playing the same low B but out of tune in the lowest 7th position possible.
Is the positioning of the left hand comfortable? It looks like an extremely awkward angle, but it's entirely possible it feels better than it looks
It actually may be. Turning the palm toward the player would engage the bicep more fully, which would take some of the strain off of the elbow and shoulder. That same rotation would also put the forearm bones in a neutral position for easier motion of the fingers and put the wrist in a stronger position to support the instrument as well. Now that I'm thinking about it, it actually makes a lot of sense. Of course this is all said without having played one to know how the valves feel or how heavy or well-balanced it is in the hand. My mind reels with the possibilities of an instrument like this...
is this available yet?I WANT ONE OF THESE!
I am playing trombone and Euphonium/Baritone. so a Superbone sounds perfect for me. But I have never played the valves with my left hand and I am a right hander.
Does anybody have experiences about that. Is it difficult to learn to play the valves with your left hand? Does it need a long time?
It's a pretty easy switch, actually.
Alexander Weber a euphonium and baritone aren't the same thing
you seem fun
I guess it depends on you, but I think you'd be surprised how quickly you'd pick it up left-handed. A few years ago, I spent several hours a day for a month straight learning a very difficult "chip trick" flourish which involved manipulating five poker chips with my right hand. Never once did I practice left-handed until after I had mastered it with my right hand (which, again, took me about 100 hours to get smooth). When I did finally attempt the trick with my left hand, I was able to do it on my second try. You might want to experiment with the French horn, since that's a left-handed brass instrument. I think you'll find that you have more difficulty adjusting to the French horn's tiny mouthpiece than you do learning to play with your left hand. Good luck!
Alexander Weber im ambidextrous so i dont get bothered
Where can I get the music for that fanfare?
hello love your work on the trumpet i am 58 years old i started playing the trumpet in 3rd grade 38 years ago am back playing but am having trouble in the high range i have false teeth now and i think its hurting me to get the high range can you tell me what i need to do to get my high range back thank you.
This is genius, but does it take away the idea of a "trombone"?
If you're referring to the glissy quality, valve trombones already did that. This combines the 2 and gives the trombone on the whole a greater, more reachable potential.
In my opinion, it certainly doesn’t to the extent of a normal valve trombone which ditches the slide altogether and is more of an excuse rather than a trombone. This keeps the slide, but adds a bunch more functionality with the valves.
Also @Sound Waves, have you ever seen a bass trombone?
Well trombone *does* mean big trumpet in Italian, so how far off is it really?
Quite the contrary. It adds
My question is what does the case look like because those valves and some WIDTH
Saw this at GIJ (generations in jazz)
It's been 8 years?
Studied under Ashley Alexander and had my own super bone. This looks great , would love to talk to you sometime.
Alexandros Georgievski I read somewhere that Ashley had his superbone customised, maybe different bell and valve section. Could you let me know specifically what he did to his? I own one too, was thinking about changing the bell to be more like a traditional small bore.
Ok but what song is he playing
what is the name of the song in the intro
I've seen James Morrison educational video on halfvalving technique. Does anyone know could this sliding sound be done using halfvalving technique on rotary valves? Do those valves work for halfvalving in general?
And yes, thank you Mr. Morrison for your great videos!
i made a "sliding flute" like this, but the one "valve" is variable too, with my index finger
What's the name of the song in the beginning?
a song from the mnozil brass band ?
trombone players getting a hold of this thing and leaving the entire band speechless and baffled
I know I'm several years late to the party, but this is a pretty good idea. Putting the valves on the left hand should be more intuitive for Trombone players. Rotors are faster and produce a sound more similar to articulating with a slide. Hand positioning is fairly ergonomic. I'm surprised this isn't the standard for China clones by now.
James Morrison..I am a fan!!!
you can get that elusive low B with this instrument that is unavailable with a standard F attachment trombone
Yes not to mention trills and even playing/balancing this trombone with just one hand like a trumpet. I actually purchased this amazing instrument and it's so much fun to play. Most versatile professional tenor trombone in the world😎🔥🎵
I've never had such an instrument beat, they should send me with UA. Which one is easier to play with, which one is louder. Thank you.
Amazing instrument!
he is a happy man
so nice
Do you think Sxhagerl could get the Frumpet right? I love the tone, HATE the tuning.
So it’s practically a three trigger trombone lol, but this looks amazing and I want one
Good evening. I want to buy a KING trombone, and have a wedding. Please tell me which is better? 1124, 1130. Thank you.
"Schagel Embrochure will follow in 10 equal parts" .... Makes you wonder why no one thought of this before .... didn't Maynard have his own "superbone" also?
I wonder if it's possible to create a bass version of this model with a 4th valve
It definitely is possible it's just that no one bothered inventing it yet😢 Tenor Superbone is rare as it is. I have purchased this Schargel Superbone and it's a dream come true!!
This is the greatest invention in the history of all creation.
The Intromusic is so fucking oberaffengeil!
Could the bone play trigger notes with the rotary valves?
Yes it can!
Look at that smile. :)
Wait! The slide trombone is In C, the valve is thinking as Bb (trumpet fingering) . So it quite complicated
I get the premise but you could just use a trigger trombone I know that you can't always just use it but 3 valves is not necessary
Three valves are absolutely necessary if you're going to play without using the slide. A trigger just lowers the pitch of the slide, it's not used independent of the slide.
@@unpeople Exactly I totally agree!! In fact it adds an extra E attachment achieving even lower notes if you press all 3 valves down. This is way better than any other trombone.
Remember that with any "attachment" horn, the slide positions are different for the straight horn and for the attachment side. You've got to practice to get the adjustment down, and trombonists rarely use the trigger for notes above the staff. With this, sure, you essentially have a _7-attachment_ horn, but that also means 8 sets of slide positions. To really utilize all of them would require tons of practice. After all, on a straight horn, it's somewhat rare to use longer positions as you get higher in your range. James Morrison seems to have the right idea: play it primarily as a valve trombone with some slide effects, or as a slide trombone with the valves used in spots where you want clearer articulation. Remember that the valves will be less and less useful the farther out on the slide you go: they just won't add enough tubing.
Welch wunderbarer Musikus
Fabulous and I'm not even a trombone player! Keeps all the options open.
if a baritonest could play the valves on it i want it because im teerible with slers i think the slide could help me
Where can I find out more, and how much do they cost?
You could transpose a melody into a different key just by moving the slide to a different position and playing the valves exactly the same. Almost like using a capo on a guitar
holy shit, i didnt think about that. thats so cool
Not exactly. When you push down a valve, you add a fixed amount of tubing to the length of the horn. Those lengths are calculated based on the slide being all the way in. As you move the slide out, you need to add proportionally more tubing to get the next lower note. So if you say, play a G in fourth position with no valves, then you push the second valve, you'll get an F# that is a little sharp. Or if you press the first valve, your F will be quite sharp. What it would amount to is having to adjust your slide position a bit with each note to adjust for the not-quite-right length of each valve section. With practice, you could probably do it, but it'd be way harder than capoing a guitar, where all the positions stay the same. The longer the slide position, the harder it'd be. Darn physics....
you can also play weird out their microtonal Ambient acid jazz
It's a superb instrument, with a superb player behind it(!) IF I had one, I'd probably prefer the rotary valves, also.
Does it use a large shank or small shank?
I wanna get one too! Looks much better than Holton superbone.
What song is he playing when he is switching between slide and valves?
Being something of a gadget guy, I like this just because it is different. Wish I could play like him so I could justify getting one.
I want one!!!
What is the tune that is played for the opener of this video? Thanks in advance!
I'm smiling :).
But have you heard of the firebird trumpet?
I want one toooooo!
... you've always been able to play both on a Superbone. Just because you lacked the talent, doesn't mean it wasn't possible.
Where can I get a superbone
shop.schagerl.com/index.php?content=products&warengrupp=406&order=bestand_absteigend&searchKategorie=Modell_Superbone
What's the instrument behind him??? 👀
Holly shit, man is that awesome...
Well done James.
I'm also very interested in one of these horns. Any info? Thanks!
Esse instrumento tem tudo a ver comigo !!!! Neto Santos
Damn!!! That intro tho
James you are a devil - player!
It's son nice to see this video-thanks!!!!
fantastic!!