Can We Rise Like THE DARK KNIGHT?
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- Опубліковано 30 вер 2024
- Can fear ever be a good thing? For Bruce Wayne, his fear and grief are motivators for the good he does.
Licensed therapist Jonathan Decker and filmmaker Alan Seawright discuss Christian Bale's portrayal of Bruce Wayne/Batman, and his journey to not be defined by his grief, fear, or failures, but to use them to do good and help others. Christopher Nolan's Dark Knight trilogy helps us explore how we can challenge our fears and anxieties, develop and maintain our morality in the face of difficult circumstances, and move through persistent and complex grief. These films are thematically rich, visually stunning, have a fabulous score, and give Jonathan a chance to show off with big words like chiroptophobia.
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Written by: Megan Seawright, Jonathan Decker, and Alan Seawright
Produced by: Jonathan Decker, Megan Seawright, and Alan Seawright
Edited by: Trevor Horton, tzhediting.com
Director of Photography: Bradley Olsen
English Transcription by: Anna Preis
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Fear is the mind killer. 😉
Would you ever consider doing this for Dracula Untold?
You guys are awesome! Keep up the great work! Do you guys think you will ever do Treasure planet? I feel like the animation is insanely good for the time and the story was at least very impactful to me as a kid! Regardless you guys deserve way more subscribers!
SOMEONE IS SPAMMING PORN ALL OVER ALL YOUR VIDEOS ! no matter how often I report ( up to70 times in one video) I can't beat a bot. Please take care of the younger audience or I have to report. It's " EVELINE" THIS TIME , but also check older Videos. up to 3 month there is onlyfans etc all over your channel.
I tried to tell you several times now, but you don't seem to care.
@@PoeticProse7 F.E.A.R : False Evidence Appearing Real
Whats so beautiful about the ending of the Dark Knight Rises isn't just that Bruce gets his happy ending but Alfred also gets his happy ending. Alfred was basically Bruce's father figure and all he wanted to see was to see Bruce happy and that moment gave that to him. So amazing!
Yeah, though I still think the not talking to each other is kinda stupid. He's basically his father introduce him to your wife/girlfriend. Wtf is the point of not talking to each other..
I think that's mostly a thematic point. As much as Bruce may love Alfred like the surrogate father he is, Alfred is still a part of Bruce's painful past. It doesn't have to be a happy goodbye, but Bruce still needs to let go so that he can move on into the future.
It was also a closing of a narrative loop. Alfred told the dream to Bruce earlier in the narrative and there were no words exchanged in the dream. This was a fulfillment of that and a completion of a narrative loop. It’s quite good storytelling, I think.
Or, it could all just Alfred's imagination. Bruce did die in the blast and the only way he can cope is to imagine that Bruce made it.
@@xdragon2k I choose to believe that it was real. That's the beauty of it.
Interesting fact about the Dark Knight Rises score. Hans Zimmer actually crowd sourced the chant to make the sound more full. Anyone could record themselves voicing the chant, and then he combined all of those recordings to give the full chant used throughout the film. So there are countless unknown names who contributed to the soundtrack, mine included.
Cant believe no one commented on this. That's awesome man.
Wow... I cant imagine how wonderful it must feel to watch that movie and know you'll forever be a part of it
I did this!
Very interesting! Do you remember what he actually had you say/chant? Is it another language??
@@BenjamminChapmanit is. Can't remember the language but phonetically it's "Deshay Deshay basara." Meaning Rise.
I love that he ultimately confronts his fears by actually physically embracing them, and seeing the power in the object of his fear. The first in the trilogy is my favorite, because of the initiation journey.
As a person with arachnophobia, immediately when you stated to talk about irrational feels I made sure to keep my phone at a distance and especially so when u brought up spiders because I knew they were to be shown on screen. I’m always right without fail lmao.
I appreciate what you have to say about exposure therapy. When I joined the Army in my youth, one condition for my recruiter was that I wanted to go Airborne. I went Airborne because I wanted to learn how to work past my fear of heights. I figured that if I could get myself to jump out of an airplane, I could do anything. The fear is still there, but I know how to work through my fears now. Mission accomplished.
The heart in the films is Jonathan Nolan. As soon as he stops writing work on Christopher's films, the emotional content tanks. Hard.
10:15 I can think of one that at least somewhat explores the power of fear for good, Doctor Who. The Doctor asks if someone is afraid, they say yes, he responds:
"Good. Let me tell you about scared. Your heart is beating so hard, I can feel it through your hands. There's so much blood and oxygen pumping through your brain, it's like rocket fuel. Right now, you could run faster and you can fight harder, you could jump higher than ever in your life. And you're so alert, it's like you can slow down time. What's wrong with scared? Scared is a super power. It's your super power. There is danger is this room, and guess what? It's you! You feel it?"
JGL as Nightwing in the Nolan universe is a MUST! Cuz seriously... PLEASE!
Please do a therapist's reaction video to Eighth Grade (by Bo Burnham): a deeply empathetic portrait of a teenager with social anxiety in the age of social media, and so painfully realistic about middle school that it literally made my son wince while watching it. It also has one of the best on-screen dads ever.
Oh yes, please! At times, it felt more like a documentary of my OWN school days at 12/13. Kayla, the protagonist, was immensely relatable, since many of us were also awkward and shy in middle school. The scene where Kayla was propositioned by the older boy in the car was so terrifying to watch, since it could realistically happen to anyone.
I have been watching your content for a while now and have to say and I know you guys don’t do series, but am gonna recommend it anyway, If you really, really want the essence of Batman. Please watch Batman the animated series! It’s probably a field day for you guys!! Keep up the good work
In the higher echelons of justice and morality. When an edifice is built our knight will stand tall..
Another version that could be compelling: Nightwing's Ascension
I'm sure some comic has done this, but I want to see a movie version with a sadistic, murderous Batman and a protégé who wants to do better--be better.
I want to see sadistic Batman praised by the city and Nightwing seen as soft--unfit to be a successor. Then I want Gotham to feel the consequences of their choice to support murder and death. I want Gotham inspired to do what's right, not what's easy, and for Nightwing to be a symbol of the city's redemption.
nolan movies always been about heart. hell, the saviour of interstellar is love lol. alfred loves bruce and loves bruce’s dad…and now he can say he completed his job
I watched the first movie when ı was five. I forced myself into sitting in a dark and damp room, totally checks out
I agree with Alan Seawright about the Batman themes - other than the Adam West TV show theme, none of them are catchy. I would love to hear John Williams write a theme that encapsulates the spirit of Batman like he did for Superman.
Oh God oh man, that Clooney clip had me in stitches 😆
I know it is 3 hours long. But you need to make a video on The Batman(2022). I beg you.
I love the Dark Knight Trilogy as I love Batman. He's my favorite comic hero
I would love LOVE ●LOVE● to hear your take on homophobia through the lens of "Batman & Robin" and "Lego Batman".
There's so much going on beneath the surface of those movies. 🥰
Got two phobias . Both of Rodents and bats ( basically the same thing ) but I’m not at this moment willing to concur it . Mainly because I’m in a position we’re I don’t need to . Not scared of any other animals just those
The power of fear for good? …. Friday the 13th. Control the dream, control the nightmare.
The beauty of this trilogy. It reconnected the need for the hero story in the superhero story. Also I believe in Alan's dream of having a Hans Zimmer score. Go Alan!
Zimmer is a grand musician
Zimmer and Desplat are top tier
Preach, Hans Zimmer and John Williams are by far my two favourite composers! ❤️
I'm gonna be controversial and say I like Zimmer a little more than Williams. I'm kinda a two way street on movie composing. Either I love literal atmosphere representation (Batman trilogy, His Dark Materials) or songs that I want download stat (Into the Spiderverse album). So boiled down....
I'm for vibes or bops. Hmm I didn't realise I was so basick lol.
@@eveline7611 Oh look! Nananananananananana
Spam bats! 🦇🤖
Get out of here! 👊🏾
When i was a child i took a self defense course, and i want to share a quote that my teacher said to us, that i had to think of with this episode: "You cannot protect yourself without fear. It is just as important to your body as happiness, or sadness, or anger or guilt. It can be just as healthy as all of those. When you're running for your life, then you're undoubtedly going to run faster than you would for a marathon. Embracing a fear, can be even more powerful than overcoming it."
Fear isn't the killer it's the drive
"Fear is your superpower!"
“The rabbit runs faster than the fox, because the rabbit is running for his life while the fox is only running for his dinner.”
I'm gonna remember this for the rest of my life, thank you for sharing
@@SexiestPenguin I mean, if the fox is too slow to catch food, then it will also starve and die, so this quote kind of falls flat if you think about it.
"Why do we fall? So we can learn to pick ourselves up", is a line that I took with me into adulthood, and honestly, it helped me face failure a lot better than I did before, it takes time, but it helped.
“It’s not who I am underneath. It’s what I do, that defines me.”
My Drill Sgt had something like that. It was, "Suck it up and drive on". That's followed me my entire life. Unfortunately, I also stay in toxic places for too long because I'll be damned if some job makes me quit.
Yeah I watched the movies right after doing a speech in school about learning from failure and was so bummed I couldn’t have used that quote
ua-cam.com/video/Yh05M9qWniQ/v-deo.htmlsi=hdHDDkCu4Zfg7FbJ
Same.... it got me through college failures, job failures, personal failures, death of a parent, death of other close ones and so on.
It got me way further than a simple movie line should.
The part that always gets me in the Dark Knight is when the convict on the ship confronts the guard for the switch and says he'll do "What you've should've done hours ago", and then throws the switch into the river. Such a powerful moment from the a person society wouldn't expect that kind of behavior from
Love that moment, but also wince inside a bit. What if the Joker had set it up as a dead man switch, or so that it might transmit if it has a short in the wrong spot?
@@markweaver8845 - From a narrative perspective, that would have defeated the purpose. His whole argument was that people are vicious and self-serving by nature, and will act on that nature when given the opportunity. It *had* to be someone willfully pressing the button, and it couldn't be anything else.
...But from an in-universe perspective, you make a valid point.
The ships are my favorite scene.
I reeeeeeally wish we could have seen that guy again. I hope he’s living a wonderful life right now
I always suspected that if someone had flipped the switch it would have detonated their own ship. I wonder 🤔
The pit climb is a great example of fear opening the door to courage. Courage isn't the absence of fear, it's doing what has to be done despite being terrified. Good lesson
I am an ex-fentanyl addict who lived the worst life and even was on the street for a time , pit climb hads always been the most emotional scene for me
Michael Caine's monologue to Bruce has me bawling every time I watch it. Alfred is such a surrogate dad and it breaks my heart that he feels such pain for Bruce. I totally agree with Alan, a Joseph Gordon Levitt follow up would have been such an awesome series. The cast in this series was so great. When it first came out, I didn't think Christian Bale was really the right actor for it. But I've watched it a couple times since the theatre release and I've changed my mind.
Christian Bale if anything was the best actor for the role, because he is the only actor to have really pulled it off great. Being a method actor he was able to pull both Batman & Bruce Wayne to perfection, something no other actors were able to really pull, I mean Michael Keaton was decent at both, but not great, the rest tended to be good at being one or the other, but didn't really pull both. Its funny that Jonathan says that Christian Bale was just a fine Batman, I feel frankly compared to the other actors he did better at both roles, so that pretty much makes him the best Batman, I mean sure I get it, the voice was a bit ridiculous, but that wasn't that bad a flaw compared to all other possible flaws.
@@lydiahood7725 I wasn't talking about his portrayal of the character exactly when I said I didn't think he was the right actor for the role. I was thinking about his abusive on set and offset past behaviors. I thought he was a good Bruce Wayne because of his general 'I don't care who you are' attitude in most things; which you expect from those with billions of dollars like Bruce Wayne. I don't know that I would classify him as the best actor for Batman. I think the technical side of this movie was better done with interesting accessories and gadgets that allowed the audience a better fantasy of Batman. The script was well done. There are lots of other actors I could envision in this role in this particular series who I would consider better actors than Bale, in my opinion. Whether they would have been great or tolerable will never be known because we didn't get to see them. But I respect the choices made in the movie and I enjoy watching it on occasion. It wouldn't be in my top 10 for hero movies though. It just happens to have a great cast of other actors I really enjoy watching. Cheers!
Every. Time!
@@jlcollins14 you really have to see a Vice.
"When life is gritty, scary and nasty, and you've lost everything and you're pushed to the edge; good people rise up and do the right thing" Love you guys!
I love this trilogy to pieces. The line "Because he's not a hero. He's a silent guardian. A watchful protector. A dark knight." gets me every time because it perfectly sums what Batman is. A symbol for good
that’s speech tho so good.
And then the third one reveals that...he just went back to the mansion and did nothing for 8 years. I will never understand how the third film didn't deal with the action described by the speech at the end of the second one. Actually that's not true, it's because the first two were largely written by Jonathan Nolan, an extremely talented writer, and the third was largely written by Dave Goyer, one of the worst screenwriters of his generation. What a shame.
It also kind of sums up what assasins are in Assassin's Creed
@@IggsHowlee Yeah in a way it does
A little bit pretentious but good.
"I don't like my Batman sadistic." Yes. Exactly. Batman seems like a simple character, but it's actually really difficult to get his character and story arc correct. Nolan's trilogy is the only one that truly nails it on all levels. I love every Batman movie there is (yes, even the Schumacher disasters, at least now with a couple decades' distance), but these are the Batman of my heart, the character I fell in love with as a child.
Indeed, if Batman is supposed to be an inspiring symbol, a true hero, he can't be sadistic. There's nothing inspiring about a sadist.
@@MerelvandenHurk Nothing cool about sadists either.
Being a sadist also isn't in line with the Batman of the comics. Bruce Wayne isn't just out there stoically protecting other people in a detached way. He's trying to inspire people to act in the ways that they can, which includes, in some cases, training and supporting other people to do what he does, including the Robin characters or the other bat characters. I've always seen that as hopeful and empowering.
@@davidranderson1 Yes, exactly. And I think this is where the character is actually quite difficult to render correctly. Because his overall stoic demeanor and use of imposing physicality can be easily interpreted as being emotionally detached, or even cruel. But what makes Bruce Wayne compelling is the deep well of emotion he carries, disguised behind the brooding silence. He loves deeply, which is the heart of his character arc--both in terms of his complicated grief (as outlined in this video) and his deep devotion to Gotham (which can be seen as an extension of that grief, but also as part of his core values of responsibility to his community, as shown us in these movies). It is when a writer attempts to simplify his emotional life that we run into problems. Burton's Batman and Nolans Batman both pay close attention to the necessary emotional complexity, which is why they are both perfect, IMHO 😁
You might want to look up Dark Knight: A True Batman Story by Paul Dini. Dini worked on The Batman Animated Series, which was one of the long running shows that set out to write Batman as fundamentally compassionate. In the comic Dini recalls being attacked while he was working on the series. He was beaten badly enough that he needed metal plates in his skull. And the trauma from that encounter fed into how he wrote Batman. I think a lot of the points talked about here, Batman as a trauma survivor, come from Dini.
The ferry scene is the single most important scene in the entire trilogy - Gotham redeems itself in that scene, showing why it is so important for Bruce Wayne to keep fighting.
Batman didn't thwart the Joker - ordinary people did. Even the other criminals rejected him.
agree. but i think in this day and age, someone q-00% would press that button, we desperately need a bale batman right now :( we need hope
I also love the scene where the big black prisoner takes the remote and breaks it. And basically says whatever happens happens.
@@Adenfall "Give it to me and I'll do what you should've did ten minutes ago"
Still gives me chills
Very well said...it not about being a hero it's about being decent...
@@npcimknot958 That’s exactly what the Joker thought, and yet nobody pushed it
I'd love to hear your take on Robert Pattinson's The Batman. I really loved it, both for its noir thematic elements, the soundtrack (also BOMB), and this more nuanced exploration of using fear as a symbol.
I really loved the growth, too - he starts out by saying "I'm vengeance" and (I think) at the end says "I'm light". And the symbolism added to it with the way the scenes were shot was also pretty great.
Yes please!
+1!
I thought it was much weaker than the original triology. B maybe low A tier movie
@@UVjoint I got the sentiment of his growth but I didn’t buy the transformation or the people recognizing his transformation enough to let him lead them. Because he practically does the same thing that made them afraid of him in the first place.
Also thought most of the movie was pointless but visually it was more beautiful than avatar imo. Which leads me to believe there was a “halo effect” surrounding its beauty to where audiences confused its beauty for good storytelling.
It occurs to me that him throwing the rope down for everyone else is a symbol for someone learning, making it, and making life easier for those that follow. I hadn't thought about it as a symbol until just now, it had always just been an act of him helping. But with all the symbolism present in the trilogy, I should have seen it sooner
I love Batman, he is by far my favorite DC hero, but people often forget he's the Dark KNIGHT. As in, he's still a KNIGHT. For example, in one of my favorite Batman scenes of all time in one of the cartoons, the Justice League is responding to a threat. A person is causing chaos, and they figure out its this little girl(she's actually probably like 14, but still) named Ace, a human weapon who has mental and reality warping powers. It turns out that she's dying of a brain tumor, but when she dies the psychic backlash could kill everyone in a hundred miles. The people who made Ace have a solution. They made something that could kill her without killing everyone. So Batman grabs it and starts running to where she is. She let's him in. She's sitting on a swing set. He takes out the device, tosses it aside, and sits next to her. They talk, and she says that no one's ever played with her. That she doesn't want to be alone, and asks him not to leave. He stays with her, this abused, broken little girl with the power of the universe at her command, comforting her as she dies. That's Batman. Batman is a man who helps girls as they die, who buys dresses for Harley Quinn because the Joker wouldn't, and who let's Mr. Freeze go so he can visit his wife's grave because he knows it'll help him more than going to jail. Batman is a KNIGHT. He understands. He knows what it's like to go through Hell, and he tries his best to keep others from having to go through and that's why he uses fear as a weapon, because villians have been abusing it for far too long.
Now I really want to see this scene, I've never really watched a DC movie, nor have I really watched Marvel movies.. The timelines scare me, however both franchises interest me greatly.
@@thebloodroze1597 it's a scene from one of the cartoons, and it's easy enough to find on UA-cam. Just look up 'Batman, Ace's Death'.
YESSSSS. This scene made the animated series version of Batman my absolute favorite. He was tough AND kind.
@@thebloodroze1597 Just do one movie at a time! There are a lot of them, but like anything else, if you do one at a time you’ll get through them. You can catch up on all the Marvel films in less than a year just by watching one a week. Make yourself a movie night :)
I don’t think the DC ones are as good overall, but I’ve been wanting to see them just because. I’ll probably make a movie night of my own!
@@StudioHannah same with the comic book Batman, if they do him right.
I hope that Alan and Jonathan will react to "Perks of Being a Wallflower", and how repressed trauma can affect us into the present day. The scene where Charlie breaks down in the kitchen while remembering his Aunt Helen's sexual abuse of him makes me cry every time I read the book or watch the film. In particular, the line "I killed Aunt Helen, didn't I?" gets me, since many abuse victims automatically blame themselves for the abuse.
I agree. This would be an important video. Hope you are doing ok Trina.
@@Firegen1 Thanks so much, Firegen1, I'm doing well, thank you for asking. I love how we keep meeting in these comment sections, it's always fun to chat with you! ♥️🥰
I'm so glad to hear that Trina. 🥰❤ Keep being awesome you. If OwO is like the king of clapback comments, you gotta be the legend of insightful commenters. It's always fun to see you in the same places. It's like a celebration of a great content maker!
That book is amazing and the movie is beautiful. I agree they should definitely do at least one video on Perks but honestly they could do an individual video on each character
I’m in a similar position as Charlie right now, with my own repressed trauma. The first time I listened to the audiobook when I was 13 I didn’t even register what exactly happened in the final act, it’s as if my mind just glossed right over it.
I remember seating in the theater watching the 3rd film. When the camera panned to Bruce in that cafe... with Alfred looking on. I was truly happy. I still am re-watching that scene. Glad in this adaptation he got a happy ending.
Right? It's so bold.
Gordon’s monologue at the end of dark knight always gives me goosebumps because it captures exactly the essence of Batman
ua-cam.com/video/Yh05M9qWniQ/v-deo.htmlsi=hdHDDkCu4Zfg7FbJ
This made me think about my favorite Dune quote.
"I must not fear. Fear is the mind-killer. Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration. I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me. And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path. Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain."
I use this when my heart goes crazy with fear in some situations
The Bene Gesserit littany against fear.
Can we take a moment to just bask in Gary Oldman being given the chance to play the good guy? He so often plays the bad guy (indeed, he auditioned for Ra's in this) that Christopher Nolan thought he might find it nice to actually play a good guy for a change. And he gives Gordon such _warmth_ and humanity.
What about Gary Oldman as Sirius Black in Harry Potter?
@@uncreative5766 1/3rd of his time on screen in HP is him being considered a mentally deranged murderer who works for the in-film version of hitler.
@@rhyanashah128 Yet, was Gary Oldman's character actually a mentally deranged murdered working for their in-version Hitler?
@Bradford Choung that's not the point, the point is that he spent 1/3rd of his screen time being a bad guy (not the big bad, but still a bad guy) so OP's point about him finally getting to be a good guy remains
@@uncreative5766 100% good point
10:27, in Pixar’s Inside Out, Fear is explicitly acknowledged as being essential to keeping Riley safe
Honestly, I love this test for if a depiction of Batman is accurate or not from Red of Overly Sarcastic Productions-
"Could you see this Batman comforting a scared child? If not, I'm afraid you instead have the Punisher in a pointy hat."
Honestly, I'm glad this was my first full exposure to the Batman character, it may not be perfect, but it is pretty close.
The Punisher is at least aware of his shortcoming in this regard, BvS Batfleck doesn't seem to be.
@@TheFranchiseCA I definitely agree from what I've seen of Batfleck. Although there's a larger issue with character inconsistency for me, for example, him blatantly and openly killing regular street thugs on the regular in brutally efficient ways, but letting the Joker live for some reason.
Letting Joker live is very much in charaecter for Batman, because as stated here, he's not an executioner, most stricter versions of the Caped Crusader, do have him practicing a no killing rule, but even in cases where that's looser, he often doesn't use lethal force as his primary option. Keaton is in an interesting grey area where he's shown clearly killing, but it's a matter of different focus and environment. He almost has this James Bond kind of energy to him where if you treated it realistically, he'd absolutely be treated as a murderer vigilante, but those are aspects of his character which were added for the time to give him more credibility to show that comic movies didn't need to be so goofy and they could handle more mature themes and content. Effectively, it's not an accurate adaptation of the character we know today, but was a needed one since it was made to introduce heros to that era of action movies.
Batfleck feels like it looked at the Keaton variant and completely missed the point, making brutal violence and extreme ideology the focal point of the whole character, stripping away any heroic qualities whatsoever, and doing the same with Superman, because "why not"?
Honestly, Kevin Conroy’s BTAS Bats, Bale’s version, and Val Kilmer I can envision doing just that.
@@Dmobley9901 I'm tired so maybe I'm missing the part where you're directly saying it was the Nolan Batman that was killing street thugs, but I think that's what you're saying. And if so, it's incorrect. He did hurt and maim and injure but he kills no one in all three films. Maybe he was a little lax about Ras Al Ghul in the first one but I think the point was that he wouldn't be an executioner and that particular inconsistency might even be explainable by Bruce's simple human fallibility. I would suspect he ruminated on that decision (and others) on a loop during his isolation between the second and third films.
@@nocontender6409 No not at all, I was referring to the Ben Affleck Batman from Batman Vs Superman and Justice League, in which he's established as being a brutal character who actively uses lethal force and brands criminals, yet it's also hinted at/implied in the DC cinematic universe that he not only lets the Joker, his most heinous and hated enemy live, he does so after the implied murder of Jason Todd's Robin, so I was saying that's a point against that variant of "Batman", where not only did he kill people, he also was written inconsistently to the point where he contradicts his own established characterization in my opinion.
Wasn't referring to Nolan's Batman, just brought it up because someone else mentioned it in their reply. But thank you for being civil and understanding instead of assuming. ^-^
fantastic content.
I’ve been struggling and even shows/movies are bringing me anxiety lately. Not you guys. Very profound and mostly optimistic imputs.
Keep fighting! We're here for you. - Jonathan
if you need a friend or an ear, i'm here
I'm so glad there's a Dark Knight Rises safe space here
It's honestly my favorite of the trilogy, just because of the themes and how powerful it is. The Lazarus Pit is absolutely astounding.
Rise up 3 probably my favorite but some people like the 1st the best I can see why 2nd movie was the perceived best great movie but I go back and forth just saw all 3 again incredible trilogy
Always been my favourite ❤️
It’s powerful, has helped fuel me in so many moments of my life
I must admit. Out of every UA-cam channel. You guys make me wanna cry sometimes.
Y'all are doing a great job. Never stop
Bruce Wayne's decision at the end of Dark Knight is very much in line with his goal in becoming Batman in the first movie. He recognizes that the city doesn't need a man. It needs a symbol. A man can be corrupted, but a symbol doesn't have to be. When he realizes that Batman is never going to be that symbol but Harvey Dent can be, he pivots immediately. And, seven years of peace does seem to prove the argument that a symbol is more powerful than a man.
Exposure therapy is the first thing I learned by myself when I had agoraphobia. I wasn’t able to leave my home for 6 years and at the time I was taking care of my elderly father. I had googled my “symptoms” and learned about exposure therapy. With that I made myself go for walks away from my house. I would tell myself to walk to a certain distance and go back. The idea was to try to train my brain to not jump to panic when I would leave my house. I would self soothe telling myself that it’s okay I’m in control I’m safe, etc. and I would do this every time pushing myself further and further away from my home until I didn’t feel panic. This was years ago. I’ve been going out a lot more since then. I’ve gone back to college and gotten jobs. Still have moments of panic and anxiety but who hasn’t these days? Lol
That's wonderful to hear! Good on you!
@@beardlessdragon thank you. Also want to clarify that exposure therapy alone wasn’t made me get over my agoraphobia. Once I was in a comfortable enough state of mind, I started going to an actual therapist and continued my therapy from there on out. Exposure therapy was just the one step that got me this far.
BRAVO! There is always a way through.
I had a really bad anxiety episode when i was 20, thankfully, the therapist i agreed to see was 2 buses and 1 train away, i had to break the ice and go in public transit right away
when all i wanted to do is stay alone in a safe spot in my house.
I'm really glad i did it, otherwise it would have been really hard to walk outside.
The journey was literally just as important as the therapy at the destination.
@@Serenity113 Wow! You're a pretty amazing person! For what it's worth, I'm really proud of you for putting in so much effort for your well being! That must have been a long, rough road just to get to the point of walking into a therapist's office. That's so friggin cool! 😊
Maaan. everytime I see Alfred cry or being emotional about Bruce's life it always makes me get teary eyed, Michael Caine was a FANTASTIC Alfred, it really makes me think of loving grandpa who is heartbroken that you're suffering and don't even acknowledge it
The Dark Knight series is different from a lot of other Batmans because it had a strong moral core. And that's how you write a story that leaves an impact on an audience.
This trilogy is my favourite version of Batman. A hero who is defined by his humanity, integrity & morality and even his fallibility. It is a powerful depiction of overcoming what holds us back. And highlights the importance of connection and having a tribe or family where the mask or persona comes off.
Beautifully said, madam. :-)
There's an episode of Doctor Who which makes a similar point about fear. A young boy is scared and can't sleep at night, so the Doctor reminds him that fear is a superpower: fear allows you to run faster, to be stronger, to react faster, and to achieve things that you might not be able to do if you were calm. So while fear is not the answer to everything, you can still take advantage of it to reach certain goals when it looks like all other options are unavailable.
I was suprised when I found out it was a kid show. Many episodes were scary to me. Like anything with the Angels. No thanks!
@@chelseyaustin6015 Yes! The weeping Angels still scare me to this day!
If this is the episode I think it is, that episode *ruined* me. For months I had to suppress the urge to look behind me when walking down a hallway when everyone else was asleep, imagining there would be a _something_ hiding beneath a blanket there. I hated that episode passionately because there was NO resolution. You don't find out what the thing was. You don't find out how to beat them. They just exist and you have to learn to accept that fear and I couldn't do that. Every other episode of Doctor Who had some level of completion. A way to make everything better. But that episode did not have one and I hated that.
@@roselover411 I think having an episode with an open or ambiguous ending is fine, but in this case it was not executed in a way that felt 'right'. Still, the speech about fear being a superpower can be quite inspiring.
@@chillsahoy2640 I can give you that. Wasn't helpful for me specifically but in a different context I would probably have loved it.
You guys gotta do "A Goofy Movie"!!!
The father/son dynamic is so real. A single father trying his best to relate to and enjoy his son. The son feeling misunderstood and embarrassed by his family. The pressure by others to conform to their parenting style and how it backfires. So much psychology could be discussed. It's one of my favorite movies of all time. It deserves an episode!!
Yeeees
I second this man. You would not expect it but it is great. Really holds up!
Also Forest Gump
This is the best idea
That final scene in The Dark Knight always gives me goosebump.
Only one goosebump? That’s rare!
@@desolate2703 it gives me thousands
Look for kevin conroys read of it. I bet it will bring you to tears. Lol
@@dreal500 rip
@@Chuck_EL r.i.p indeed. What a loss.
also, if you notice in that “executioner scene” bruce doesn’t even go for the knife and then say it, he stands by his morals and principals, and i think what rachel said to him really is a catalyst. it anchors his core value -which he almost compromised when he was in revenge mode o. the guy that killed his parents.
An interesting realization I’ve had of dark knight rises, is how time has passed and the younger generation is now the adults and how their perspective of Batman is more positive. It kinda reminds of Britney Spears situation. How the media and general pop turned on her, but it’s us (kids then) adults now, are the ones that stepped up to advocate for her. I think it shows how change is inevitable. And it takes time obviously but it comes regardless, generation to generation
I don’t know about Batman in general, but I see what you’re saying at least in regards to this trilogy specifically. The same thing happened with the Sam Raimi Spider-Man trilogy. I remember when The Amazing Spider-Man was coming out, it was very hip amongst many groups online to bash Tobey as Spider-Man and his films. The most popular criticisms was that his movies were corny and that Tobey’s Spider-Man was too whiny. But now I’ve noticed that the Raimi trilogy is being held in higher regard online than they were before, and I think it is in large part as you said, the people who grew up with the Raimi Trilogy are now grownups and are dominating the discourse surrounding Spider-Man, which creates at least the impression that the Raimi trilogy is finally being viewed in a more positive manner.
The Star Wars prequels had a similar fate. Fans hated the prequels when they came out, but now that people who grew up with the prequels as kids are now adults and the failings of the sequel trilogy has earned the ire of the collective Star Wars fandom, the prequels have finally gained a certain degree of acceptance among Star Wars fans.
I think we are beginning to see this happen with The Dark Knight Trilogy. When the trilogy ended with The Dark Knight Rises, there was still a fair amount of contention at the time among older Batman fans in regards to whether or not the trilogy actually had a satisfactory interpretation of the character, despite the films’ critical acclaim. Now with TDK Rises about to reach its 10 year anniversary and the people who grew up with these films becoming adults, the Nolan trilogy has begun to reach a certain “nostalgic” status and are being seen overall as classics more than they were before. Of course, some of this will depend on how The Batman starting Robert Pattinson is received by fans. If the new film is not viewed favorably, it will to an extent, further reinforce the status of The Dark Knight Trilogy.
Nicely said. The same could be stated about the Star Wars prequel and sequel trilogies. Time has ultimately vindicated the prequel trilogy (even tho it obviously still has its haters), and time will inevitably, if not gradually, vindicate the sequel trilogy for a lot of people.
Batman: The Animated Series constantly explores the psychology of its characters. I highly recommend you watch it.
They are both big fans. I think they have mentioned the series at least twice in other videos
We both grew up on Bat: TAS. HUGELY informative show for both of us! _Love_ it!
Best version of Batman. That's not just my opinion, that's a fact.
Yes, I would like to see their take on Batman Mask of the Phantasm, were Bruce hangs up the cape because he's found happiness and what drives him back
@@ascendingGhost2501 Mask of the Phantasm is an excellent movie, not just as a Batman movie and it's so good to see it getting more recognition over the years.
Also Batman: The Animated Series has my favourite version of Batman, he's a badass but he does have moments of being a normal man, shows his compassion and protective nature especially if kids are in trouble
i like this version of Batman much better. the new versions of Batman, bloody and sadistic, isn’t the Batman i grew up with. the Batman i grew up with was dark, sure. a bit brooding, why not? but under it all, he would do anything for gothem, and upholds his integrity; refuing to be the executioner.
Amen!
“Christian Bale is fine as Batman… but he’s the best Bruce Wayne.“ is one of the most perfect descriptions of an actor in a role that I’ve ever heard. Brilliant insight, Jonathan.
I loved this video, as I do every one of your videos. Rewatching for the first time in a while, Michael Caine telling Bruce about his dream of seeing him happy, and then at the very end seeing him exactly like that, brought me to unexpected tears.
Batman has always been a favorite “superhero“ of mine because he’s one of the most _flawed._ And it takes him a _long_ time to grow out of his flaws.
I'll always agree with that he actually was Bruce Wayne, we saw that side of him often
And that's where Robert Pattinson's The Batman come in.
He is the other way around. He is Batman, not Bruce Wayne.
My boyfriend and I both have this fear that our relationship won't last or that something bad will happen or come between us. And while we both make efforts to quell each others fear, I've often told him that this fear is healthy because it will always make us appreciate each other more, make the effort. I'm terrified of the idea of losing him in any way, shape, or form but rather than it controlling me, I've allowed it to inspire me to be better and do right by him.
You're boyfriend is a very lucky man.
Thank you for writing this comment. I really needed to hear this. I'm afraid that whoever i start a relationship with will not want to stick around, and i feel like that fear is unhealthy, but you just proved how fear can be used for good.
I'm so glad you guys are doing an episode of this trilogy! Batman is my most favorite hero, the DK trilogy is my favorite few Batman movies, and I love the deep dives you do to examine a character's psychology. This is the perfect way to start my day :)
Same. I cannot tell you how loudly I gasped when I saw this was posted. Or how happy I was when I realized it’s 40 mins.
Out of curiosity, would Snape count as having PCBD, too? I mean, he's basically the personification of "not letting it go" and was still grieving over Lily by book 7.
I'm curious about this too but it probably can't be talked about here because there was so little about that subject in the movies. Snape was just used as a plot device anyway.
I think Snape would count, yes. How many friends did he have, after all?
There's an episode of Doctor Who (titled Listen) that has a whole speech about the benefits of fear: "Fear is a superpower. Fear can make you faster, and cleverer, and stronger... Fear is like a companion. A constant companion, always there. But that's ok. Because fear can bring us together. Fear can bring you home... Fear makes companions of us all."
What season was this one in? The title rings a bell, but I don't remember when it came out or who was the Doctor or anything like that 😅
@@bj.bruner i think this is the episode where Clara meets a young doctor. Twelfth Doctor era.
@@bj.bruner Series 8, Peter Capaldi.
I still remember that episode so well. It was brilliant.
Series 8, episode 4, "Listen". If you want to catch up on a great bit of television!
I appreciate the mention of the greatness of Hans Zimmer! He's one of my favorite composers. He's one where, when you've watched one of his movies enough times, you can tell from the music what is happening. Great at creating themes. Prince of Egypt, The Lion King, Pirates of the Caribbean, and this trilogy along with many others. He tells a story with his filmscores.
Let’s not forget the masterpiece that is “Time”
Every time I see the pit scene I'm reminded of a life defining G.K. Chesterton quote, "Courage is almost a contradiction in terms. A soldier surrounded by enemies, if he is to cut his way out, needs to combine a strong desire for living with a strange carelessness about dying. He must seek his life in a spirit of furious indifference to it; he must desire life like water and yet drink death like wine."
Wow that's a great quote!
That's such a great quote.
Thanks for a fresh quote to never leave my mental library
What does drinking death like wine mean? I'm not a very confident reader..
Weirdly, being a parent gave me that fear. Failing my kids is not an option. That makes me try when I would have bailed before. That gave me the determination to get my shit together in a way I thought was impossible before becoming a parent. That fear is what gave me the acceptance to go to therapy, because I didn't want to use my fear of being inadequate to keep me from being stronger for my boys.
I feel much the same with my kids. On days when it's hard to get out of bed in the morning, knowing little guys are depending on me helps me keep going.
Respect to you and your family, sure you're doing a great job
@@Bilaldane thank you. That's very kind.
That's beautiful. I wish more people did that.
@Morgan Oates well, thanks. I'm a mom (coe is my childhood nickname), but I still appreciate it. 😊
Also worth mentioning, while Bruce fell into the well leading to the cave, Blake (Robin) comes in on a rope, the same way Thomas Wayne did... well vertically instead of horizontally but thematically the same.
Best of all: be like Matt Reeves.
I can’t wait to see y’all cover _The Batman._ It struck a beautiful balance between realism and gothic fantasy, exploring Bruce’s trauma with an intensity beyond the Nolan films and a purpose beyond what Snyder was capable of.
I shared your fears about it going off the trailers, and honestly went in with struggling expectations. It ended up saving my love of Batman, rekindling a classic fictional fixation. I’m sure it’ll give you much to talk about as well!
Yes and the scene at the end when batman is helping all the people at daylight is so powerful
what were their/your fears?
@@Brotried97 This critique is awful lmfao
@@Brotried97 this comment is also terrible bro cmon you gotta craft your arguments better
@@Brotried97 says the guy who replied a month later lol. You don’t have any points either. It’s just vague and inequivalent comparisons
For me I think Batman the animated series gets both Batman and Bruce Wayne done right. Including, showing his integrity strengthened in the face of adversity
Honestly, I was having such an emotional rollercoaster of a day and when I saw you posted I almost cried- your videos seriously make me so happy❤️
You're so welcome!
Glad we could help ❤️
@@CinemaTherapyShow I’m fangirling right now- thank you so much for replying!!❤️
The Lazarus pit scene in The Dark Knight Rises is probably one of the more emotionally resonant scenes in the TDK trilogy. Whenever I find myself at a low point or doubting myself and needing inspiration, I always go back to this scene.
Oh…. My god. I am only just now realizing that the pit is Nolan’s interpretation of the Lazarus pit
I rewatched this trilogy the other day, and it made me realize what was so wrong with so many of the dark and gritty superhero films that came after this(including batfleck), these movies take the time to earn the darkness they hold, they earn it. its not a shit world where everything sucks with no redeeming factors the whole time, they build up the tragedy, show him interacting with the people around them, in both helpful and sweet, and less helpful but well intentioned ways. and then when it starts going after the people that are causing the problems, and things hit the fan and its showing people suffering, it shows Batman using what people have taught him, and being kind to the people he's trying to protect.
So many of them ignore that work and just cut to the grit, when it works so much better as a contrast to the themes and moments inside of it.
The final scene from Dark Knight that culminates with Gordon calling Batman the Dark Knight was the first time I’ve ever experienced a theater reaction of cheers.
very underrated monologue
"When is a time where failure is not an option, even though you're terrified?"
Hands down, raising my kids. From the first day, it scared the hell outta me to be a mom. I couldn't sleep in the hospital room with my new baby, because I was so afraid for him. But it has shown me a strength I never in a million years would've known that I had!
You learn to accept failure and move on ;)
@@Mindseas haha getting there!
Spot on, you can usually tell what kind of parent your going to be the first night your baby entered the world. some feel indifference, but fortunately You had the desired reaction. Tread carefully because too much fear, care or concern with protecting can enter the territory of becoming over bearing, turning the parent into the dreaded overly protective helicopter parent. There is no manual, but from your comment it is evident that you are a great parent! I hope your journey is fulfilling, and I pray this message finds you well!
@@RizztrainingOrder I appreciate that! I do the best that I can. It took a bit to adapt to the new role, but five years later, I am much more comfortable with it haha. I just think that first night it hit me like a ton of bricks that I was in charge of a little life. It was freaky.
@@leannaconda5859 Agreed, years later and it still terrifies me.
I've been following the channel for a while now. Honestly waiting for the coverage of this story. The meanings behind this trilogy are what have inspired me and keep me going most days. I'm thrilled to enjoy the breakdown from one of my favorite channels over the last year. Thank you both for what you do and being the dark knights of my journey so far.
“Doctor: 'You do not fear death. You think this makes you strong. It makes you weak.'
Bruce: 'Why?'
Doctor: 'How can you move faster then possible, fight longer then possible, without the most powerful impulse of the spirit? The fear of death.'
Bruce:'I do fear death. I fear dying in here while my city burns. And there's no one there to save it.'
Doctor: 'Then make the climb.'
Bruce: 'How?'
Doctor: 'As the child did - without the rope. Then fear will find you again.”
― The Dark Knight Rises
Other than Christian Bale's Batman voice I think the Dark Knight is pretty much perfect, although Mask of the Phantasm is still my favourite Batman movie. As for Batman Begins, one issue I have with it is Ra's al Ghul not being Arabic as he is described in the comics. Also, the name Ra's al Ghul is Arabic for "The Demon's Head". The Arabic pronunciation for the first syllable is "Rah-us". The character's creator however chose to use the Hebrew pronunciation "Raysh" which is he one most commonly associated with comic book fans.
This! My main criticism of the Nolan films was whitewashing characters because they did it to Bane as well
@bo rick Discrimination of any kind is not tolerated.
I also wish he had been Arab. But given the choice they made, they did well with it.
Maybe they whitewashed the characters because having the head of a secret organization and basically a terrorist be someone Arabic, wouldn't have been a good look either... not sure though. Just a suggestion.
That is a fair point. With these movies coming out so close after 9/11 and the strong anti-terrorism themes in this movie, it may have struck too close to home. Besides that, after 9/11, there were strong anti-Arab and anti-Islam sentiments in the US, which could have been exacerbated by casting a person of Arabic descent as a major villain in a movie like this, causing additional persecution for innocent people of Arabic descent.
Thanks guys. I needed this. My brother loved Batman and I’m grieving his suicide. He was unreachable after the most recent traumatic events he suffered. Please keep reaching others to understand themselves so we don’t lose our lovable brothers and sisters.
If it helps even a little, even from an Internet stranger...I'm sorry for your loss. Take your time in grieving, there is no timer or stopwatch, you are the clock and tell your own time, but don't forget to move forward as much as you are able, when you are able, so you can celebrate his life and memory.
I'm so sorry for your loss, I lost someone too suicide as well, at the time I felt like I was in a dark and lonely place but I eventually found that at the end of that long dark tunnel there's light found in those you love who understand your pain and pull you out of that lonely place, so each day slowly little by little we can keep moving forward and live the life our lost Loved one's would want us to have.
Sorry for your loss. Thank you for opening up about your emotions. I wish you good health and that you find your path despite the challenges that it brings
Hoping you get through to brighter days. Hold on and they will come.
Sorry for the loss you experienced. Family, friends, or acquaintances unfortunately cannot be saved by us. They cannot be changed unless they themselves truly want it. Best we can do is be available when needed or necessary to support them the best that we can. I pray this message finds you well!
I love Hans Zimmer! He is a musical genius. His work with Interstellar is phenomenal. I would love to see both of your take on the movie. Especially, Alan's take on the music. There are some clips where Hans explained his process with the movie. He said that he was told the plot was about the relationship between a father and child and worked from there.
Couldn’t agree more, some composers focus on simple leitmotifs which make it easy to remember or hum, undoubtedly enjoyable but Zimmer is different, his scores focus on the emotional environment somehow illustrating the characters inner thoughts and beliefs through musical composition. Perhaps not as easy to remember or hum but is sheer joy to experience!
Man, that monologue from Alfred about Bruce leaving Gotham and having a family makes me ugly cry every time. A desperate wish from a father figure for his son.
I love how Alan's BUAHHH sound was the exact same note as the Cinema Therapy intro. 🤣. Also, loving this series so much! Can't wait to see what's to come in the future! ❤️
Me too, I love how they analyse various fictional characters, and the possible mental disorders they might exhibit.
@@eveline7611 Begone, Bot!
What I love about the scene where he stands up in the middle of all those bats is that, even though he's just at the beginning of his journey and he's still only Bruce, you can *see* Batman.
I relate to this episode. I’m TERRIFIED of heights and I recently went rip lining. I remember waiting in line looking down and trying to calm myself down. I was doing exposure therapy without knowing it! It was hard to step off that ledge but I did it and I felt very proud of myself!
I’d love to see you guys do one of these on Henry Cavill’s interpretation of Superman. I’d be very interested to hear your thoughts on him
¾ hour of Cinema Therapy? About Batman? HELL YEAH; this trilogy sure is amazing, especially the first two and thematically you're right, all of them are! Going to enjoy the rest of the video now. I love what you two do and often it really helps me, in a way, to also grow as a person. At least I feel so. Keep doing this!
Cheerio
26:01, this isn’t foreshadowing though it might be symbolism. But the guy on the prisoner’s boat who threw away the button told his captor to hand it to him to keep his own hands clean and offered to claim to have taken the button by force. When the captor handed the button to the criminal, the criminal threw the button out of the window. The idea appears to be that an outlaw letting people think he’s evil when he’s not enables him to do great good
A Nightwing sequel would have been great, but it would have to fight against the incredibly high expectations we all have, because I certainly have a whole bunch of possible Nightwing trilogies in my mind from that last scene, and there’s certainly a big number of people that have entirely different ones.
But I always was sad that they never tried. Or used it to start a good DC cinematic universe that put as much thought and getting the characters as right as here.
Undoubtedly the best superhero trilogy and still the best Batman. Incredible films.
I remember watching Bat v Sup and just being super confused as to why their characters were acting so UNLIKE their characters lol.
Batman has been my favorite DC hero since I was little. Bale is my favorite live action portrayal for sure.
That's because Zack Snyder's an edgelord manchild who thinks characters being constantly miserable and turning heroes into selfish assholes who only care about saving their loved ones and no one else is "deep."
I'm totally with you Sis
Have you watched the extended cut?? The studio really cut a lot of story elements out that connect it all together
@@Xehanort10 I really don't get the hate that man gets. You Snyder haters are so toxic!
@@pranavnnair5 Says a member of a cult of a fanbase that worships a director of terrible action films and treats him like some filmmaking god, have deluded themselves his pretentious shallow films are somehow "complex masterpieces", accuses anyone who doesn't like his easy to understand films of not understanding them as if it's hard to. It isn't. You lot would rather believe there's a nonexistent conspiracy to destroy Snyder's career and life than admit there's anything wrong with his films.
1] What I love about THIS Batman and THIS Joker is how they are perfect inverses of each other, who both practice what they preach. Joker believes that any random guy on the street would be perfectly willing to throw someone else under a bus, in order to save his own skin, and he lives that philosophy. Bruce, however, gladly throws HIMSELF under that proverbial bus to save countless other people. You two are absolutely right in saying it's selfLESS vs. selfISH.
2] "You don't think I'd risk losing the battle for Gotham's soul in a fist-fight with you. You need an ace in the hole." That moment was a clear reference to many incidents of certain people, who profess to believe and live out a very clear set of morals, only to be exposed for being the opposite and knocked down from their pedestal later on.
3] My two favorite lines in the entire trilogy:
"People need dramatic examples to shake them out of apathy."
"Madness, as you know, is like gravity. All it takes is a little push."
4] There's a FANTASTIC History Channel documentary that, if neither of you have seen yet, you absolutely should. A couple of channels here on UA-cam feature it: "Batman Unmasked: The Psychology of the Dark Knight". The only difference is that it was made back around the time that "The Dark Knight" came out, so you won't see any of "D.K.R." (2/22/2022)
This is why I love our cinema dads, I actually loved this trilogy and just realized how cool the first movie was thanks to y’all, thinking about the juxtaposition of how Scarecrow uses fear and how Batman uses fear. The realization just hit me like woah, so cool! Thanks cinema dads!
Also, snaps for Gary Oldman my favorite Commissioner Gordon ever.
Tenet! Review Tenet please! Always love the friendship aspect of the leads. It's not "buddy cop" or wartime foxhole but the trust between the Protagonist and Neil is nuanced and wonderful to watch. Same for the Protagonist and Kat. Could have turned into love interest action movie drivel.
This version of Batman is one of my favorite portrayals of any superhero. Killing someone is something that should never be done lightly. I have made the internal decision to only kill if I am defending my life, my family's lives and the lives of others and I appreciate that this batman has made that distinction
The ending of the dark knight never fails to give me chills. It´s so beautiful.
I always tell people that Christian Bale will always be the best version of Batman and they look at me like I Have 3 heads. Thank you for Making me feel not so crazy for loving this trilogy so much.
I was lying down watching this. Then when you guys started listing all the issues Bruce Wayne has, I sat up and whispered to myself "Holy crap, I'm Batman". Probably the first time I haven't been happy about the prospect of being Batman
This is one of the stories I needed in my life. I was so afraid of life and its elements, I channeled the fear into going forward. Its also something I learned as a child on stage, use the restlessness and nerves to fuel your performance. Before you know it, you're killing it 😊
I didn't appreciate Batman Begins until AFTER I watched The Dark Knight. I went back and watched Batman Begins and I enjoyed it so much more. And then Dark Knight Rises rounded out a near perfect trilogy. Loved it!
I remember seeing TDK the day it came out. That ending with Gordon's narration just gave me chills because of how good it was.
In the category "I cannot fail" I managed to go through a separation and divorce from a violent narcissist abuser and protected my four kids during that, including 6 months of him living in a room in my house because I couldn´t throw him out legally before the court decided who had the right to stay in the house (rented but both on the rent contract).
I actually kind of understood how Batfleck was more murdery. His intro in that movie is seeing Metropolis destroyed and has had additional losses of people he cared about. I can actually see the trauma of that pushing him to go further. He's getting increasingly desperate in his own city and just saw two gods destroy the neighboring city. He actually starts to move back toward the no kill after all that stuff with Superman.
The problem with that is Batman has been murdering people for YEARS. Yet he gets upset with Superman's collateral damage while he's saving the world. It's kinda hypocritical.
@@mongooseunleashed Here's where I disagree, respectively. Apparently BvS Batman hasn't killed anyone during his 20yrs of crime fighting. Even after Joker murdered Robin, presumably Dick Grayson: the 1st Robin from the comics, Batman hasn't killed anyone. Until when Superman showed up, he was faced with a choice, either kill Superman or presumably let him stay until he eventually becomes a villan. And Bruce made the choice to kill Superman based on the fact that he spent 20yrs fighting crime and he saw alot of good people turning bad like Harvy Dent and so on. Until the Martha moment when Lois said that it was his mother's name that he realized that he was wrong about Superman.
@@Spidey-bj6xd Your explanation makes even less sense. Based on what you said, Batman went crazy from Superman and went on a murder spree.
@@mongooseunleashed Well if you watched the movie and paid close attention he only brands them. And also he doesn't care if they get thrown to prison only to die. The rest that he murderd were casualties of getting in the way of what he wants which was made evident during the Batmobile chase scene and saving Martha scene. Yes he did murder some them. There is no questioning that. But he did eventually realize that he was wrong in killing criminals and causing the Death of Superman.
@@Spidey-bj6xd If you watched the movie and paid close attention they hint that Batman has lost his way several times before revealing he has been killing criminals. It's implied he's been doing it for awhile. That's where the branding even started.