The First Order's Awful Tactics in The Last Jedi | Star Wars Battle Breakdown
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- Опубліковано 7 лют 2025
- The First Order's tactics at the Battle of D'Qar were just awful, allowing the Resistance to destroy their Mandator IV dreadnought and escape in their Raddus MC85 Cruiser.
On today's Star Wars: The Last Jedi dedicated Battle Breakdown, I'll examine First Order strategy, and make some suggestions.
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well there biggest problem is hux isn't an admiral and he lacks all experience the dreadnought caption wanted to scramble fighters hux ignored him. its why I have so much truble believing the first order is a thret there two few and we know planetary defense fleets are better. meaning that they should have a fare grater challenge especially after losing there base and now there leader
My strategy: don't bring the dreadnought
EckhartsLadder ECKSTOO MORE LIKE!!!!!!................. UUUUUMMMMMM ESCKTOO?
EckhartsLadder if i was a fo commander i would rush b
Krogan vs Brutes [144th ask]
Jar Jar Binks was a horrible tactitian, and is still better than the entire commanders of the first order.
"Appear weak when weesa are strong, and strong when weesa are weak, betcha betcha."
He was the general during the battle of naboo. Already accomplished more than any Disney villain
Bad writers could only out-strategies retarded straw men, so that's what we got. Better writers create better villains like Thanos, where he's multi-dimensional and in some ways you're sympathetic to part of what he's saying or coming from even though its wrong. This was simply a big budget propaganda film for children to teach them that diversity is our strength, white male patriarchy is evil, and girl power prevails.
@@BoopSnoot you're honestly a moron if you believe anything you said in that last sentence lol
@Straight Busta WHY ARE YOU HERE? YOU NEED TO FOLLOW THE DAMN TRAIN, *CJ*
RIP Captain Canady (the dreadnought commander), who understood the need for an immediate fighter escort, but was denied by Hux. He was an old guard Imperial officer who resented the arrogance of young First Order officers. In the few scenes we see him, he is very bitter about that. He died calmly facing his ship's destruction.
He was great.
I would kill to see more of him in these movies, what an awesome captain
And we know they messed up killing him because the guy I the next movie is a carbon copy of him.
Easy... stop making the bad guys incompetent. Just one of those Star Destroyers could have wiped the Resistance out.
RedLeaderOne yeah but they too dumb
Battlecruisers*
They are Resurgent-class Battlecruisers
Disney will never let the bad guy win
@@asaihatsuyo to be quite honest, the only way Disney could fix this is by letting them win
Similar to how Lucas did with ESB, that way they would have a reason to make another trilogy
that's shitty writing for you. Showing off how awesome the good guys are by also showing off how terrible the bad guys are.
Literally the writers of the latest movie had to make the First Order's commanders as stupid and useless as possible so that the Resistance can escape.
Late but the best part is that the first order has the massive supremacy with thousands of tie fighters and a further 20ish resurgence class ships with even more tie fighters but no we need to pull back and chase them when they have no defenses no extra ships and no star fighters ah the sheer logic of Rian Johnson
It's called "Plot Armor". The writers love using this in the new "Star Wars" just so the good guys can win in the most lazy and half assed ways possible.
Cloud Roller just like the original movies
@@crazyfire9470 darth vader gets surpise by han solo..... im now realising that is a plot hole
there is such an easy fix too:
if the first order didn't expect the whole resistance force to be there, they would have sent a much smaller fleet. If the first order didnt show up with overwhelming power, they wouldn't have to be stupid. the resistance could have gotten away legit.
I suppose they were evacuating because the first order knew about the base, and the first order was tracking the capitol ship... but thats a stupid corner to paint themselves into. just don't start the story like that.
Step 1: Execute Hux for incompetence.
Step 2: Make sure he is dead.
Step 3: Are we blind?! Deploy the fighters!!!
Step 4: In the meantime, there is still a single X-Wing out there. While the fighters are launching, the point defense gunners could surely use the target practice.
Step 5: Target the Raddus, the planet isn't going anywhere.
Step 6: Profit.
Really, anything other than falling for yo'mama jokes would have won the battle for the FO, but I think your strategies would have resulted in the total destruction of the Rebellion 2.0, and the FO would reign triumphant for the next couple days until their general incompetence imploded the entire organization from the inside.
Oh, and I almost forgot...
Step 7: Throw Hux's body out the airlock, it's the only way to be sure (unless he's Mary Poppins Y'all).
I agree with everything you said, but you forgot something.
Step 8: Use Hux's desiccated body for further point defense target practice.
Just in case.
One Mary Poppins was too much.
The First Order should have won it makes no sense that they couldn’t wipe out 3-4 ships with that Dreadnought and 3 cruisers in 1 volley
Step 9: Put more guns on the damned dreadnought! It's almost the size of the Executor and has what, 5% to 10% of the guns? Even if you have to turn them off to use the big ones you needz moar dakka! Also fit a superstructure or something over the reactor that's hanging out like a giant “kick me" sign.
The commander of the dreadnought should have been in charge, now he is dead....
Somehow I feel like there's an almost deliberate attempt to make the First Order as incompetent as possible.
And I don't mean the usual plot armour, the heroes have to win kind of stupid.
No, they genuinely seem to be run by idiots.
The empire made silly decisions at times, but many of them were still broadly competent ideas.
The first order just seems to be led by complete idiots...
Because they clearly want the First Order to be defeated in the next movie.
As incompetent as Hux may be, he is a virtual Alexander the Great compared to Vice Admiral Gender Studies Holdo. At the end of the movie, Hux still had his fleet and most of his soldiers, whereas ALL of what was left of the Resistance (due to Holdo's leadership) easily fit with room to spare on the Millenial Falcon.
and even that had to be saved be a luke ghost to even make it to the falcon
maybe they will recruit some kids like that boy with the broom at the end of the movie something stupid liek that
I watched a video the other day that clearly demonstrated if you put Grand Moff Tarkin into this position (for the sake of actually being in this story, say it was the competent Commander who was actually on the Dreadnought), you can get some cocky/smart alec dialogue from Poe without making the other guy look like a moron, and still achieve the same outcome. It shows blatantly that you don't need to make the FO idiots for the Resistance to win, or even to allow levity into the scene.
Honestly, it makes me kind of glad some of the more iconic characters died in the OT, because it eliminated the possibility of bringing them back in the idiotic character assassination Leia and Luke got.
These "point defense cannons" are laughable. Point defense needs high fire rate, those things are slower than my grandma. Modern point defense turrets like the american "phalanx" shoot about 3000 rounds per minute, not 20
The technology in Star Wars has always been made to look really sucky for the sake of looking cool on the screen. It's the reason why blasters bolts travel so much slower than bullets, even though they're supposed to be so advanced and better.
Jacob Bielski Specific examples being?
@A. Vazquez You need examples of science and technology not behaving correctly in Star Wars?
Jacob Bielski To validate your point, yes.
Besides the technologies not matching up with what's theoretically possible about them, the state of technology itself is contrivedly hamstrung. Star Wars relies on not having any innovation. Technology in the OT or Prequels seems to be at the exact same level, even though IRL we've seen how much things can change in just 30 years. KotOR and SWtOR take place 3,600 years in the past, yet everything looks exactly the same, with blasters, jet packs, droids, starships, lightsabers, etc. all functioning identically. The fact that so little attention is paid to how technology should affect the personal lives of people is what makes Star Wars science fantasy, and not science fiction like Star Trek, Alien, or Bladerunner. Heck, even Warhammer 40K has more tactical options like nukes and virus bombs for killing everything on a planet, and that's suppose to be backwards dystopia.
I would... hire a director that actually knows how battles really are fought.
i miss battles from the prequels, where the scene and scale is just huge and hectic.....
Not director, but a consultant
The director should know how to make great movies. He can hire a consultant for expertise in combat tactics and battle execution.
Or have a member of the project that knows that stuff, such as in medieval movies that try to focus on realism by getting actual historians on set.
It's not even hard to learn, a child could learn this!
One of my main problems with the new movies is how stupid everyone is. It makes it all seem silly instead of menacing. Most people are behaving like children.
they have roughly around the same intelligence
well that's how people behave in today's world ... or haven't you been on social media yet man ?
This movie isn't for us .. they dont give a shit about us , this movie is made to appeal to the low iq no attention span millennials.. real star wars fans are to smart its way too difficult for disney to make a movie for our kind... the millennials tho.. they are fucking brain dead and will throw money at anything disney can produce.
A child has more effective bargaining skills.
Are you sure you saw the OT? The same trilogy where the deadliest space weapon is destroyed by shooting a simple hole on the outside? The same trilogy where luke crashes on Degobah coicidently on the same place where the person he was searching for was? The same trilogy where the deadly empire is defeated with the help of space bears? Yeah those are 2001: A Space Odessy levels of Intelectuality
Ugh I thought the anti-SJW bullshit had died
Analysing logic of new "Star Wars" is like trying to analyse chess strategy of a pigeon.
including a dexter-like "crap splatter analysis" ;-)
made my day LMFAO xD
Good person, that quote would be a disservice to the pigeon, I'd say more like a cockroach.
@@KFP_DonDon_Quixote no living organism capable of indepenent movement can be as retarded as the FO
@@Hiroyashy No. If you analyze slightly deeper you realize they at least better than The Resistance.
People complain about Holdo so much (and quite justly) that they overlook what a moron Hux was in TLJ. The First Order's tactics really seem to be nothing but shock and awe. It really baffles me how they could topple the New Republic gov't with such poor leadership.
wdcain1 I've said this before and I'll say it again: the entire plot of this movie hinges on The First Order leadership being terrible at their jobs.
The EU for Hux make him even a bigger moron! Apparently the guy is a staunch Tarkian and still thinks that single seat fighters are not a problem! You know those single seat fighters that have been the bane of TWO Death Stars, the Starkiller base and countless Star Destroyers but lol no, they are not a problem.
I seriously wonder what kind of idiots the rest of the high officers are if a short bus case like Hux has become the supreme commander...
It's because the New Republic is an even bigger pile of dogshit.
I haven't read many of the new EU Star Wars novels post RotJ but from what I've read in chat rooms, the New Republic is set up as a very weak government with no real centralized system so with whatever happens to one world is that world's own problem. That's basically how the First Order grew unchallenged: They sack one world after another and no one would come to anyone's aid due to "it's not my problem."
If that is how the New Republic worked then it deserved to get beaten up by the First Order.
Man whoever wrote that really has no idea of anything.
If it were up to me, I would have real life military historians and strategists be put in charge of the battle tactics.
That's usually how movies are done. They call up some experts, get their input, then modify the tactis to fit better on the screen . Disney clearly skipped this important step and just made some shit up on the fly.
That would be awesome. However I would be mostly satisfied if the First Order at least used some common sense. It doesn't take a military strategist to realize that the needed to fire at resistance fleet first and that they needed to protect their massive Mandator by placing the Resurgent Cruisers and TIE fighters ahead of it.
I would just put EckhartsLadder in and I’d be good
@@tjsogmc
To be fairly honest, strategy hasn't been star wars' strong suit. Ever.
Remember Ep 2 Geonosis?
I mean they could have just read a book on strategy before doing the movie. It’s not like they don’t exist.
Step one, since now ships can disable or destroy targets hundreds of times their own size using hyperspace, so have one remotely piloted shuttle ram the Radus. Have a second one ram the area of the surface with the Resistance base. Then just mop up any survivors by charging in with the Star Destroyers. Then retire all your capital ships because this tactic renders them obsolete.
Finally, throw Rian Johnson out of an airlock for breaking your entire universe.
Well that would be kind of wasteful, don't you think? Generally militaries don't just crash their vehicles into each other. But Holdo was desperate.
But Anakin already destroyed a Separatist ship by having it light speed into a moon after he messed with the controls. So I guess throw George Lucas and Dave Filoni out the airlock too?
Nearly all military engagements come with expectations of losses, so throw away units have existed for a long time. Fire-ships were an important and highly dangerous feature of naval warfare pretty much the whole time ships were made out of wood, and kamikazes proved a very dangerous tactic during WWII if you've seen any Star Wars you might have seen something similar once or twice, but an automated shuttle for ramming would be more in line with torpedoes or guided missiles than anything so drastic.
I do not remember the scene with crashing an enemy ship into a moon, but unless the hit ripped straight through the moon (which I would probably remember) it's not the Last Jedi logic. Hitting things while in hyperspace has been mentioned as a problem even since ANH, but if the technology could be weaponized so easily someone might have noticed.
For an explanation for more complicated than I care to make: ua-cam.com/video/ZbENyDHE4Ww/v-deo.html
Benjamin0119 construct a flying brick with engines and a hyperdrive rig a basic computer to fly the thing remotely cant be too much more then an x wing and it can cripple capital ships a few hits and its destroyed
For my 12.00 bucks, I would have rather seen Rolf's version of the fight, roll credits, and then spent the next 2 hours and 15 minutes doing something enjoyable.
This has happened to the executor in the legends comics, its shields said fuck you and the ship was fine
Only 1 mistake: disney wont make the dark side win,
Yeah, despite the First Order being incredibly dumb, they're increasingly getting more justifiable with each movie. Because not only have the New Republic essentially forgotten the past fifty years existed, but they've grown so complacent they've literally set themselves up to repeat history.
Unless Thanos Joins 😉
SpacePod9 *{bass booste Ali-A theme}*
good point. ever since disney took the franchise, the villains have been pretty stupid. seriously they tried to build another death star. DID THEY NOT SEE THAT THE DEATH STARS FAILED???
Snoke: *YOU FAILED!*
Note to Rian Johnson:
There is a difference between a movie standing on its own and a movie acting like its on its own
Note to Rian Johnson:
*Your Bomber Theory Sucks*
-200 IQ
Note to reply section:
*I have osteoporosis!*
In episode 9 we get an explanation. Episode 9, not 8. This movie requires episode 9 to make sense.
@@blitzn00dle50 man episode 9 isn't worth 1% of episode 8
It makes sense. As soon as you drop out of hyper space you launch all fighters and move the destroyers forward to create a defensive wall for the lesser armed dreadnaught. Why a ship that big is so poorly armed is beyond me, but I'll assume the primary guns eat up way too much energy to afford more defenses. Use the main guns to destroy the resistance flagship while the fighters mop up any shuttles or fighters in the area. Destroyers providing support fire. After that it's pretty much GG. You're free to bombard the planet and pave the way for ground assault to make sure everything is dead.
Obviously the power consumption was from that oversized bridge, holy hellfire that is huge.
I agree concerning the dreadnought. Those bombers cruised right up to the nose, and not ONE turbo laser in the forward ventral area? A classic Imperial Star Destroyer would have been hammering them from a dozen points, with a lot more than some mediocre surface cannons. Maybe they should have considered using some of that 8 kilometer hull space to install a second reactor, dedicated to weapon systems.
I’d do this: When my ships drop out of hyperspace, I’d deploy one Resurgent forward to attack the fleet. For this Resurgent, launch all TIEs to form a defensive screen against Resistance fighters and bombers, and ready point defense cannons. Fire on the Raddus first, as it’s the biggest threat and is also their command center. The Resurgent doing this and it’s TIEs are Battlegroup 1. All other ships are Battlegroup 2. Keep the other two Resurgents in defensive positions in front of the Mandator IV. Launch the Mandator’s TIEs and maybe a squadron or two from a Resurgent, for good measure. The Mandator should fire on the base on D’Qar so friendly fire is not risked. When the first bomber/fighter wave inevitably comes, order point defense cannons and fighters to focus on the bombers. If the X-Wings and A-wings get through the defensive screen, you don’t have much of a problem. As shown in the movie, they can only really damage your point defense cannons. However, if bombers get through because you focus on their escorts, then it’s a lot more problematic. Once all bombers are destroyed, I’d let a squadron of TIEs mop up the minor inconveniences that are the remaining fighters, then ready for a possible second wave. If the Resurgent in Battlegroup 1 is destroyed, then I’d send another out to mop up the Resistance fleet. If I deployed extra TIEs, then I’d make sure this isn’t the one I deployed them from. If this Resurgent gets there and has more TIEs, then it has the opportunity to be the first line of defense. I’d get a little more reckless with this ship, as what remains of the Resistance fleet should not be substantial. Some of the TIEs could form a forward defensive screen, while others could protect the Resurgent. Once the D’Qar base is gone, then I’d just have the Mandator fire on the Resistance fleet and let the Resurgent and it’s TIEs back off. Boom.
I would launch fighters... five bloody minutes ago.
Ayyy, I got that reference
Galvars cool
when I first heard that line my first thought was "A transporter accident lands chief O'Brian in the star wars universe where he joins the first order officer corps and he is none too happy about the competency of the leadership"
Does anyone have a link or something to this reference?
What are you waiting for? Fire on the base!
''What the first order could have done differently'' Blow Poe up immediately instead of letting him meme all over you.
Good comment .
here's one. you are in pursuit of a fuel dead opponent. you are passing the only planet in the vicinity. you have stealth, or its capacity. they have either stealth per se, or the chance of jury rigging some. so it's a frequently used ploy.
a junior officer says" hey, boss-sir, the rebs i might jump ship onto the planet since they're out of fuel. probably wire their escape pods for stealth. we outnumber them heavily. shouldn't we drop a few of our humongous star destroyers off pursuit long enough to check out this last escape spit on the planet?"
"oh, no, I'm sure they wouldn't jump ship like that."
in what universe is this a sound decision?
> meme
best comment on this hole video
Where are gravity well projectors gone ? Those would have been infinitely more useful than an hyperspace tracker, and they were almost ubiquitous a few decades ago...
That would required the writers of The Last Jedi to know something about the Star Wars universe and canon
Garomcfbgdd This.
Garomcfbgdd yeah
Nihl Uxler they probably did have some.
Ubiquitous? In Legends maybe, but in Canon they’re rare. There were only a couple in use and nearly, if not all, were destroyed.
There's one thing that bothers me that nobody else seems to notice:
We all realize and are upset by the fact that when the First Order has the dreadnaught open fire on the ground base before the fleet after coming out of hyperspace, it was a major mistake on their part. However, the rationale for that anger is that by focusing on the base first, and then the Resistance fleet, they're ignoring an opportunity to prevent the rebels from escaping. This is correct and valid, of course.
But the thing that nobody else seems to realize, yet bothers me significantly, is: _what about the information?_ The Resistance personnel probably had a lot of info in that base. By attacking the fleet before focusing on the base itself, they could have denied the Resistance a chance to flee (especially if they didn't hold back most of their fleet the way they did). After destroying the capital ship and any other support ships in orbit, they could have focused on the base and either killed or captured the remaining Resistance with minimal collateral damage to the base itself. Sure, the rebels would have tried to destroy information during the evacuation, but surely *something* must have survived. And if they forced the rebel personnel into surrender, then all the better, because prisoners can serve as sources of information (or even potential bargaining chips if there's ever a future run-in with the other side-- a "You release our jailed men, we'll release yours" sort of deal).
Captured weapons, vehicles, and supplies would be an added bonus, too, and the base itself could be used for future First Order operations. There's just no sense in obliterating the entire base; merely destroy the fleet, and you're all set.
thats y the idea of firing the rebel base baffled audience.....there's a thing in military protocol called gathering "intelligence".
I believe this is just playing off the Idea of the DS-1 just simply heading over to Yavin to destroy the rebel base instead of overwhelming it with shear numbers. Both the Empire and FO suffer from bloated egos and arrogance.
Tiago deCastro this whole thought of yours took you some time to write it down
About 50% of the viewers thought or felt that something doesnt add up in this moment in the film
Just like you said, ist doesnt make any scence to completly destroy the base and not the ships
MaddMattP90 the empire already had control of the entire galaxy they didn’t give a fuck about rebel info they just wanted them wiped from the universe
To play the devil's advocate, if the FO knows this is the last fleet of the resistance, and they know that they have a tracker to chase down any fleeing fleet, then immediately destroying the base (which could still have significant numbers of unlaunched ships from the FO's perspective) might make sense. It still doesn't explain why you'd setup what is essentially an artillery piece at the front of your formation, undefended, nor why you'd keep all your fighters unlaunched, of course.
we dont need to be reminded it was terrible. even a guy who doesnt understand a single thing about military/naval tactics would see there is something wrong
my spine got chills...
THAT IS JUST SIMPLY NOT RIGHT!
WHY DO SUCH INDIVIDUALS EXIST?
that is true.
currently i enjoy couple things of the "new"canon- the darth vader comic, thrawn's book, SW rebels. that's it!
also there is always people who will shut down their brain in order to preserve or protect the thing they are being attached to, like this brainless scene
but the bigger problem is that they are throwing agendas in our throats that we dont like. its very forced, not in a natural way. the whole "gender" agenda is very forced itself and that is no good for anyone
ps- i liked the synthetic crystals. i always connected it with ancient people, uniting with earth objects, in order to have closer and deeper connection with their spiritual (and so on type) energy
i fully understand you but i also want to add 2 things to what you've said
1-Legends (if you ask me) was more for the geeks and people who wanted to dive more into this sci-fi universe. i am not saying there were not big mashups tho. Also you have to admit, Legends gave a whole another look to the SW universe
2-you say you are HEMA longsword practitioner. Then you understand why this choreography would impress people who havent touched a blade in their lives. Now i'll try to justify it just a little-the lightsaber battles in the OG trilogy were rather simple.Geogre wanted to add something new, something impressive.Lastly, they are force users, i dont see problem, picturing them using the Force to be more acrobatic.
This on the other hand unlocks many doors with simpler and more efficient battle tactics, like Force choke him, then pull him to your blade etc
As for Naval combat, the point is the same as my previous point. However that doesnt mean they cant use strategy and every advantage they can get. I'll give you Thrawn for example- Chimera shot the turbo lasers of one of the ships, then used the tractor beams and used the ship as a meatshield/hostage
I'm pro-Legends and not really anti-Canon, and I have to say that the Galactic Empire's military tactics are superior over the First Order, even in the Star Wars Rebels show. If only Grand Admiral Thrawn were around to see what the Empire has deteriorated into. The First Order has the tech to be formidable, but they don't seem to know how to utilize them effectively.
What boggles my mind is, that IF the FO is supposed to be mimicking the Galactic Empire, then why the hell do they have so many incompetent commanders? Like do they commanders go to a officer school at all, or do they just get buy ins to be officers?
That's also a more natural position for the FO to be in: they are remnants of a long defeated regime, how the hell do they have the resources not only to build similar ships, but an outright BIGGER Death Star class weapon?
the FO is mimicking the GE, but only in the same way that a boy in a business suit is mimicking his dad. They're kids in cosplay (complete with cosplay Vader) with all the gear and no idea.
You are totally missing the point. It's not the FO that sucks, it's Rian Johnson that writes horrible scripts and make everyone look incompetent.
@WolfDiamondShadowthrawn would have thrown hux, phasma, and any others I missed, out the nearest airlock and then ordered every gun they had to fire on them.
Just launch a hyperdrive missile at the Raddus and be done with it.
Rian Johson said hyperdrive can only be weaponized in dire-straits. If you are winning and you still use hyperdrive, it's considered cheating.
since when did the first order adhere to the Geneva conventions of space? they blew up several PLANETS full of civilians. why would they care about hyper-drive weaponry being "cheating"?
Lol yup, we'll just sweep that universe-distorting sequence under the rug.
+Kai Headstrong It's because Rian Johnson said so.
Buck Rogers Who gives a rat's ass what Rian Johnson has to say? That's the most retarded goddamn explaination I've ever heard.
4:50 I saw the film. The First Order DID know the Resistance was evacuating. A dude literally said to Hux, "We've caught them in the middle of their evacuation."
What Ekhart is saying is that before they showed up in that system they didn't know so there battle plan didn't include that
Darc Kap27 The dude was the Chief of Staff of both military and Navy, Captain Edrison Peavy.
More like awful writing.
Darth Sidious
Aren't you supposed to be dead?
Sword Master Felix The Dark Side of the Force is a pathway to many abilities some considered to be unnatural.
Petra Ral Doesn't change the fact that it's awful.
I do love the strawman argument of where you don't actually try to defend it and rather change the subject to something else.
this
fuck TLJ. Shit movie and non-canon.
Its all crap. World War Two carriers always have fighters in the air and they still do today
yea man, i saw those in the movie Red Tails...awesome film!
@@SHabbIZZLEx There are no carriers in Red Tails, and that movie is really bad when it comes to combat.
Mind you, sometimes the Japanese would only _armed_ fighters upon scouts returning with news of an inevitable battle to save precious fuel.
@@HangmanOfficialUploads Every pound mattered, and ammunition was quite heavy in bulk.
Finding out hux is a secret spy for the resistance makes me wonder if they had that planned from the beginning seeing how incompetent he was in the field of battle (this being a primary example)
They didn't. They didn't plan anything out from the beginning. JJ just made Hux the spy so he had an excuse to kill him off since he'd been turned from a threat to a punchline in the Last Jedi
Have Poe fly the Millennial Falcon low enough over the dreadnought so that Mary-Sue Rey can hang out the door and cut the ship in half with her light saber as they pass over the surface at speed. Oh wait, that's going to happen in Episode IX
Red Scorpion 6 😂😂😂😂
Well, in johnson/Kennedy SW universe, it’s at least a really credible scenario. We can expect pretty much everything from them.
Every time I’m watching a video about TLJ, I’m wondering who hired those two guys, because man there is so many better directors out there who could have done an outstanding job
I would feel much better about the direction of the franchise if they actually DID use a scenario like that, because at least it would be honest. If they want to make an anime/cartoonish Star Wars, then go and do it. Don't keep trying to make it serious while throwing in absurdities like a flying Leia or Star Destroyers that never fire a shot during and entire battle even though they are RIGHT THERE!!!!
Red Scorpion 6 Almost everything is wrong w/ this movie and the funniest thing is, they (Rian/Kat) think they made a masterpiece 😂
They’re not accepting any critics, they’re saying only a minority of people disliked it (wrong), and the ones to do so are white supremacist or sexist (wrong), even Mark Hamill hates it but no they are so utterly brilliant that Mark is must be in the wrong (wrong).. pfff this is unbelievable and to be honest, I am a great fan of the franchise (movies, video games etc) but i don’t care anymore about Rey or Kylo or Finn, they lost so much interest to me, their characters became pathetic and full of non-sense, I don’t care anymore of what would or wouldn’t happen to them.
How do you think I feel about the franchise ? I saw Star Wars on it's first run in the theater in June '77. Nobody knew anything about it going in other than that it was a space movie with some robots and whatnot. Imagine the feeling leaving the theater after seeing SW for the very first time ever and comparing that to what TLJ shoveling that heaping plate of dog shit our faces.
Red Scorpion 6 I can only imagine man, I’m 24, I grew up with SW. And even if some of the first six episodes were not perfect, I love them anyway! I was kinda disappointed in TFA but have accepted it, Rogue One was very good and then TLJ came out 😂😂 Oh man, I was laughing in the theatre, not for the jokes, but cause I couldn’t believe it, so ridiculous. I had so much high hopes for it.. didn’t even watch Solo like many others.. anyway..
Don't know why Poe just didn't finish off the entire 1st order fleet by himself. We've seen either him, BB8 or Ray could easily do it with a snap of their fingers.
rigglesnz Or just get thanos...
Obviously they should have just set any of their ships on autopilot to launch to hyperspace targeting any ship they didn't like. Of course, until now it was depicted that hyperspace was a parallel dimension where you couldn't interact with anything except certain exceptions like supernovas. Nope. It's just going super-duper fast.
That, my friend, is where you are wrong. It has always been depicted as a dimension congruent with realspace. Both in legends and New canon, objects in realspace cast 'shadows' in hyperspace that can and do get interacted with from either dimension. Hence why Han warned Luke about why it is important to get the correct calculations before jumping to hyperspace because it would spell disaster traveling to close or through a star. TCW, (yes, long before Disney) has a battlecruiser slam into a planet while it was in hyperspace, both obliterating the ship, as well as fracturing the planets core, killing millions.
@@MaddMattP90 I always bring up that clone wars episode when people start arguing about the hyperspace scene.
In the Novelization Captain Cannady (The Commander of the Mandator IV) comments that Hux wanted to make a some statement or something and ordered fighters to not be launched. However Cannady has fighter prepped for launch in case something goes south. He wasn't able to give the order until Hux got angry about not taking out Poe. So really it's Hux's fault.
What would I do if I was in command on the First Order's side ?
- Protect the dreadnought with an awful lot of TIE fighters flying around it (remember the Death Star II when the emperor was on board ?)
- Move the cuisers in front or on the flanks of the dreadnought, or order them to circle the Raddus to prevent it from escaping, and give orders to target the Raddus, and to obliterate any rebel ship that could try to get close to the dreadnought.
- Order the Dreadnought to aim for the Raddus first, then for the base
They had literally everything inside that flagship so obviously shoot that
One criticism of your plan, unlike real naval combat where a flanking manoeuvre could work, the Raddus can just lightspeed past the flanking ships.
I wonder if being a General and not an Admiral is what made Hux so incompetent at fleet engagements.
Eclipseslayer98 I actually think that’s the whole problem, he may be competent in warfare, but not fleet warfare, his rank is General, not Admiral
Ok, I am not an Admiral and no General for that matter. I still would not have fucked shit up like Hux did. Seriously. The Rebellion is using THE SAME TACTICS AS EVER. Bring two TIE-Interceptor Carriers to each Battle and launch all small Wings asap. No need to be a tactical genius at that point, just doing what is "the least stupid thing" would suffice. But honestly, it was just bad writing.
So what you're saying is that Hux is the Daala of Disney Star Wars?
I think they just gave him a general rank because they don't understand military rank.
That would be my theory as well. Bad writing paired with bad research.
It was all a plot by the director to derail the Star wars canon
If you would stop with all the stupid conspiricies, that would be great.
Justin Y. Tru
Giglefreakz triggered much?
Giglefreakz dude its called a joke
Van's Videos It’s kinda difficult to distinguish a joke from genuine criticism nowadays. Especially one that’s aimed at The Last Jedi.
"Everyone's fleeing to ships!"
"Let's bomb the planet instead"
Ok *whhyyyy* ?
This. Hux is made deliberately stupid in this movie for no other reason than to keep the movie from ending too quickly. There's at least three things the First Order could have done that would have ended the movie immediately.
Hux: I hate planets. They're course, rough, and are everywhere.
How can you really be afraid by the first order in the movies? I just cant
Gamer King How can you really be afraid of the Empire? They were just as incompetent in the OT.
yeah but they still had brilliant tacticians
All of which resided in the novels and none of which ever showed up in the movies.
I had farts that caused more evil in the Galaxy
Have you forgotten that the Empire (well, Vader and the clone/stormtroopers) have wiped out the Jedi Order? Your greatest defenders have been killed; the chance of resistance is basically gone.
I mean, really. The Rebellion had to wait till the Clones, superior Republic fighters, and Venators, were replaced by the dumbass Stormtroopers, crappy TIE Fighters, and shitty Imperial Star Destroyers.
A great analysis. Here’s my take. For Anyone who thought this video made some sense. Or had several WTF moments in the cinema. Disney clearly thinks that . . . .
“You are not the fans they are looking for”.
robby tm Basically what I told myself while watching it : "It's a kid's movie, it's a kid's movie, etc." Even then, it's so bad...
To be fair eck Canedy was pissed that his fighter cover was missing. He definitely shows he could be considered one of the few competent antagonist officers shown in the film canon.
Falleen sadly he died
"The only good official in this movie is already dead. Reee"
Not gonna lie, almost all sci-fi battles seem to forget the total verticality of, ya know, SpAcE...
It can actually make sense for space battles to be missing dimensions.
For example, in the game Children of a Dead Earth, battles are effectively one dimensional. This is due to the technological constraints of the setting resulting in low acceleration and long distances. That means manuever during a gun fight is pointless (accelerations well below 1g) and that battles are flybys (too little dV and acceleration to reverse course easily).
Step one to win this battle. Fire Rian Johnson.
Bingo.
Step 2 torches Kathleen Kennedy.
Step 2: Hire someone with a military science background as a consultant.
NolePtr Or someone who can make a good movie
Nate Sal
Yeah, that too. All the consultants in the world won't help if the inept can't process what they are being told. I mean, how can you be infatuated with WWII bombers and at the same time have no clue about Combat Air Patrol concept? Hell, that would've easily saved Dreadnought even without having your ships in actual formation...
Whats this? A video related to The Last Jedi? *jumps to high ground to watch the incoming galactic comment war*
The entitled man children are coming to complain!
Endix Ha XD save me a spot before this gets ugly!
Endix lol
Kaiser If they're entitled manchildren for complaining, and you're complaining about the complaining, what does that make you?
Sean a baby man
"It's not like a planet can hyperspace jump away."
*Laughs in Zonama Sekot*
It's almost as if the entire battle was sloppily designed to accommodate an inherently flawed script.
DefenderofFuture
I tend to agree. but, then again, big fights aren't dramatic.
"ramboing" is not effective in paintball games, and presumably real firefights.
stupid and flashy ,that's the American way.
look at how many times we put the shield generator outside the forcefield. the red button that shuts if the drone army. the star killer which has the same design flaw as the death Star.
*$igh*
Both sides are incompetent in that film
Floyd Looney "we don't win by killing what we hate we win by saving those we love."
*Suicide runs in to finn her love with dangerously old n shakey ship almost killing both herself n finn n let's first order destroy only defense left for the rebels causing luke to sacrifice himself*
@@quietsquid4271, sums up that mess! Good job!
If the movie had had logic, they would both have died, hit by an AT-ATor just from the crash because of the speeds, but with actual logic, Rose wouldn´t have been able to crash into Finn at all. Finn was moving at top speed and she was forced to move twice as fast to execute the collision as it played out. In which universe does that make sense?
Because the writer is.
It's not their fault, Rian Johnson just wrote it that way.
didn't he let someone else overhaul the script of the movie?
@@firstoffproductions1462 No i think
@@firstoffproductions1462 it was never edited after first draft is what Rian himself claims
The main problem was Hux. He seems to have a nasty habit of toying with his prey before killing them, something that really screwed over the first order in the last Jedi
I feel like that would’ve worked at making Hux feel a bit less ridiculous in TLJ if maybe Snoke, when scalding him, says “Get your habits in check, general. If you keep on toying with your prey like this, they’ll always escape. I didn’t hire you just to rattle some cages.”
That seems to have been a problem with many imperial officers that went to the first order. Not everyone was like Thrawn who pragmatic. Even when Thrawn toyed with the rebellion, he never took anything by chance.
I'd say that the first orders greatest misstake was putting a general (Hux) in command of a fleet, instead of an admiral.
the same thing could be said about kathleen or johnson
That’s what happens when you put a mamas boy in charge. Even the captain of the dreadnought would’ve been a better choice. Love that line: should’ve launched our fighters four minutes ago.’
The First Order was so incompetent because the movie was made by Rian Johnson.
hot take
Hah. Funny Funny.
The best tactic as the FO with the assets available is this
1) Have the Resurgent-class battlecruisers jump ahead of the Mandator IV, to provide a screen
2) Scramble fighters
3) Have the Mandator IV aim the Raddus, with the majority of the TIEs protecting her, while the Resurgents with the rest of the TIEs close in
4) If the the Resistance fleet jumps out focus on the remaining Resistance assets, if not blow the fleet to bits (starting from the Raddus) and then shift the attention on the ground and on the transports
With this said I would have swapped the Mandator with an Interdictor escorted with a couple of frigates. That would have made any retreat impossible, destroying the Resistance then and there.
Unfortunately, Interdictor-class ships are exclusive to the Legends continuity, which was such an amazing library of top-notch writing (with admittedly a few duds) that Disney could not allow it to exist. Thus, the Thrawn Trilogy, the Vong War, the whole Darth Caidus fiasco, and more got exiled into non-canon "Legends" so Disney could toss this crap at us.
@@SarajevoKyoto they are canon, they showed up in Rebels in more than one occasion.
@@Deamon93IT Ah my mistake then, I never watched Rebels
This is essentially the rule book of capital ship / carrier engagement for dummies.
@@MaddMattP90 apparently it is still too complex, even though something similar was already done in Rebels (season 3 finale, when Thrawn almost destroys the Rebels and gets stopped by plot armour)
Small proofreading correction: the title should actually read "Rian Johnson's Awful Writing in The Last Jedi"
Sean true
Sean True.
Sean there was writing?
The space tactics have always been lousy in the movies. A character like Thrawn could never have existed in the OT, because Lucas was always focused on emotion and spectacle, never the airtight explanations for why certain technologies work the way they do and how to exploit them.
Jacob Bielski So you agree it's bad, got it.
I don’t understand why they didn’t shoot the fleet before the base
Riley Moorman 100% agreed
That would have been some amazing trolling:
*Opening Text Crawl*
*Pan to the Resistance Fleet*
*First Order jumps in system*
*Poe flies up*
"Hello? I have a messa-"
*BOOOOOOOOM*
*Resistance Fleet explodes*
*Roll Credits*
Total run time: 7 minutes.
They can target the Planet but not the fleet?
Gott Mit Uns they are in range
They pretty much had to shoot past the fleet to hit the base on the planet.
I recently encountered an interesting analysis of General Hux (the guy basically responsible for this debacle). Basically, the conclusion was that Hux isn't really a strategist - he's an engineer. A strategist develops novel ways to solve a problem using the tools they have available - an engineer builds a new tool specifically for that problem. The First Order is full of highly advanced but incredibly overly specialized pieces of technology (the battering ram laser, useless against everything EXCEPT giant doors), and Hux always wants to use the optimal tool for the job. This sounds good on paper and sometimes works wonders (Starkiller Base), but it tends to blow up in his face when he does that instead of using the adequate tool standing in front of him. He should have attacked the Raddus with his Star Destroyer immediately, but he didn't because he wanted to use the Mandator IV, because it's the "best" for such tasks. Then remember that Hux has very little real combat experience and has spent his entire life being told about the Empire/FO's technological and military supremacy, and you can start to see how he can be the wrong person for his job without being a total idiot.
Michael Ramon So that makes Snoke the supreme leader a total idiot for putting him in charge...
Maybe, maybe not. Hux's ludicrous weapons DO get results a lot of the time, and we don't know much about internal First Order politics, so it's possible that Hux's appointment is a concession to the military wing (some FO guys probably don't like being ruled by a Force-user), a concession to the "new generation" FO officers (there seems to be some tension/rivalry between the FO officers who actually served the Old Empire and the ones born/raised/commissioned after Endor), or perhaps some sort of compromise between various factions (Intelligence, Army, Navy, Engineering, Civil Administration), where no one really wants him, but everyone is okay with him instead of a high-ranking guy from a rival subfaction. Or Snoke simply preferred someone controllable, who would either never betray him or do so so predictably that he could never succeed. I believe he said something about "cowards having their uses" in TLJ. Snoke wouldn't be the first Imperial to reward loyalty/fealty ahead of competency. Part of the point of the Empire and its spin-offs is that they AREN'T well-run because their priorities are all out of whack.
i recently encountered an interesting analysis of general hux (the guy basically responsible for this debacle). Basically, he sucks.
Wow that's... actually kind of interesting and adds stuff to the character.
. . .
Too bad it was never in the movies.
i'd like to debate this with you but it's now impossible to separate Hux's incompetence from Disney's.
"mistakes" means bad writing
which the entire franchise is just full of
@@MaddMattP90 I wouldn't say the ENTIRE franchise
@@girl-xk2db
Yeah, the entire franchise. All the movies have some bad writing.
@@logankrohn1472 yeah, i think i made that comment before i saw the rise of diewalker. that movie single handedly completely ruined my view of the sequels
@@girl-xk2db
Compared to ROSW the first prequel movie looks like Jurassic Park.
The FO's biggest mistake was letting Rian Johnson draw up their battle plans.
I guess he should apologize for trying to make a fun action adventure movie instead of a hyper realistic space documentary
EpicWaba we aren't asking for hyper realistic we just want a solid star wars movie. We want a competent first order not a first order run by goofy retards. I want a proper enemy. Like the Empire!
EpicWaba you can have a fun action adventure and a good space battle
Great video. Though literally everything that every character in The Last Jedi does is just dumb. I can't think of one minute of the movie where I wasn't scratching my head as to why the characters were acting the way they were... both at present and things like, what the hell did Luke do during the 20 years before Ben Solo turned? No Jedi were trained and are out there? From the New Republic not having military intelligence, or gassing their fleet, or how they replaced effective bombers with paper thin WW2 style bombers... to how the New Republic is supposed to be lead by strong heroes but they get completely wiped out by The First Order which is lead by 3 complete morons. Snoke and Hux are easily tricked and Kylo is prone to temper tantrums. A lot of deus ex machinas were needed to get characters from plot point to plot point since everyone's actions were so incredibly stupid. It's just bad writing from start to finish.
The New Republic died because some 3.0 deathstar killed them all.
There was nothing the First Order could have done. After all, they were being written by Rian Johnson.
Jar jar: Mee sa incompetent! Mee sa clumsy!
Meanwhile, Hux gets a huge ship destroyed and gets slammed and wiped on the floor by Snoke
First Order greatest problem? Not executing commanders on spot for failure.
Lol and Vader would execute people for talking to him wrong. Oh how times have changed...
The problem was, the Resurgents were unable to get past the plot armor, which is why they sat there the whole time watching from behind the ship they were there to protect. IMO this was just lazy writing/filming, as even the most inept military commander would have had the resurgent battle-cruiser in front and to the side of the resurgent, and they surely would have been targeting the Raddus. Additionally, we are told that this is the First Order's most important target at that time, and the one that want to stamp out the most, so why exactly do they send such a small part of their fleet there?
Militarily the entire situation makes no sense and instead it was simply done for the story. I mean look no further than these movies continue to exclude any ships below ISD size from the First Order Fleets, just as they did for the Empire, despite every bit of cannon and legends being loaded with frigates, heavy cruisers, light cruisers, guinships, etc...., many of whom's sole role is to act as a anti-star fighter screen for the star destroyers and larger ships, which is exactly what would have been surrounding the dreadnought to protect it from the resistance, whose force was made up mostly of star fighters and bombers.
I totally agree man new starwars films are just trash...
Idea: do an episode where you describe your “perfect fleet”, with access to ships from Star Wars, Halo, Mass Effect, and/or other sci-fi universes.
(13th try)
Warden -, Like a well balanced fleet with a variety of support ships and specialized ships.
Hydrogen One yes, but I’d be interested in hearing what ships exactly he would pick. There are hundreds of ships in sci-fi, and which ones are best is a constant war on the internet. Eck. won’t be able to stop that, but his opinion would carry weight.
I'll love that video, say a scenario forced those ships to join into one fleet and Eck has to pick the best to join it. Would be interesting to watch.
He already did that video right?
Taseric he did a similar video, but only with Star Wars ships.
I just stopped at the 2:00 mark here and I already have three major questions that makes me question this battle:
1. Why weren’t the cruisers protecting the dreadnaught if the resistance was going to do a bombing run?
2. Why did the dreadnaught destroy the base first if there was no planetary defenses that would symbolize the resistance ground base as a threat that needs to be immediately destroyed?
3. Where the hell are the y-wings and the b-wings? This is 30 years after the battle of Endor and the new republic didn’t supply leia either speedy bomber that can take out the first order fleet deployed to Dakar in one swift sweep?
Yeah... Star Wars dark side groups are terrible tacticians. Which is ironic given how they outgun the good guys all the time. They seem to have the tactics of a small child. Putting the big gun out front and unprotected and expecting to muscle their way through the fight. But, that's never a good idea. They rely far too heavily on one big gun. An amazing tactic was in Star Trek (I don't remember which one this was in, but it wasn't an old one) where the bad guys were using a massive fleet of tiny ships working together with detailed communication and came together to look like a big scary mass, but was able to disperse and evade. Each tiny ship was well armed and they were easily able to destroy the starship enterprise. They didn't rely on one big ship and if some small ships were destroyed, they still had a good chance of winning. The only reason why they lost was because their communications were jammable using loud music. A fatal flaw that if corrected, would make this fleet almost unbeatable.
That's as may be, but the Resistance has countered the FO's incompetent commanders with their very own Vice Admiral Holdo. Proving once and for all that Galactic empires and other bad guys aren't the only group capable of producing truly atrocious commanders.
Stategy from a movie that thought have several women just do nothing on a command deck and let them kill us 1 at a time ? They could have evacuated and rammed immediately ! And I know nothing about tactics and still would have won and saved everyone's lives, since they could automate the ramming if needed.
Yeah, but we need the movie to be more d r a m a t i c
I see everyone is debating about Hux being an idiot and stuff. The problem with this battle and most of the movie is that in a real navy or even army there is a standard order of operations. Its like all they through out all those years of fighting the rebels. What fleet would pop up into enemy space and not be on alert or ready for battle. The fleet should have been in a formation already and they would have already known the capabilities of x-wings they have fought them for decades. Fighter screens would been up the other Star Destroyers would have been deployed in at least an escort role around the ship. It just goes to show you they don't know crap about warfare.
No, you cannot blame anyone, just the Plot Armor, it is too strong! The movie is too weak, it can't hold!
Hux is still kind of an idiot, but I do agree with you.
I saw the ship arrangement, realized how backwards everything was. Immediately I thought up a better plan and then you proceeded to implement it. Neat. The weird thing is that the Resurgence class is a clear improvement upon the IS2 in every single way, they actually addressed the flaws and made it viable on its own. And despite that they squander it through ineptitude. Good thing for them that they weren't fighting the New Republic with MC80b, Nebulas, Endurances, B- and K-Wings. They would get crushed instantly.
And WHO and WHY design the dreadnought AND the supremacy that had the ISD like bridge? while the first order battlecrusier does not? didnt they learn how a single SSD was disable due of a single kamikaze AWING???
Well at least it didn't have exposed shield domes.
The first order still does with the whole placing the shield dome near their bridges
Are you talking about the exposed shield dome on the resurgence-class because I don't see shield domes on the mandator-4?
It's there alright, just hard to see because of it's stupidly massive bridge size
Looked up an image. Yay they are really tiny compared to the size of the ship.
Or simply: DO NOT GET DISTRACTED BY A "YO MOMMA" JOKE.
"A single fighter approaches in attack mode"
"Shoot it down and release all fighters"
*Roll credits* BWAAAA BWAAAAA BABABWAAAAAAAAAAAAA
The new order lost because they were following the orders from the deviant, narcissistic overlords rian johnson and kathleen kennedy. Their lunacy crippled the battle tactics.
Worst sith pairing ever! XD
If they had just let me lead the resistance fleet we would've been fine.
The bad guys always have pretty bad tactics in star wars movies, like sending three ties to fight the rebels in 4, or moving too close and useing big, slow machines in 5, or having ground forces controlled by one ship like in 1
Sadly, the haters completely overlook that a lot of the "bad" things they claim to hate about TFA and/or TLJ and/or even the prequels are things that were also done in their "perfect" OT at some point. It's a double standard that plagues every fan base of large/popular franchises.
Kyle Pietrusiewicz In 4 they let the falcon escape to find yavin 4. 5 the empire had an overwhelming fleet power and underestimated the ion gun (more due to lack of respect for opponent). 1 plot armor of flying into the ship, naboo had nothing to take on a capital ship.
SteelTy 4, no the x wing attack, they were overconfident, so that led to bad tatics, overestimation also lead to bad tactics, and one ship that controls the whole army is still a very stupid thing on the off chance something happens, all of these show bad tatics of bad guys, you just gave the reasons
Yes but in the originals they were litteraly using real models for that crap there’s no way they could model like 400 fighters lol and as for the prequels the movies did indeed suck, but the comics and games rly picked up the mess and made the prequel era preaty darn cool (especially clone wars) also even if the past movies made so many mistakes why is it ok that these movies make them again??, shouldn’t the directors learn and adapt? The original and the prequel era can suck all you claim it to be but at the end of the day saying these new movies are shit (which they are) is still a fair point
Back then there wasn't social media and a widespread victim mentality so you heard little to no bitching.
I think I would have positioned the Mandator dreadnought ABOVE the Resistance fleet, so that way after the orbital bombardment was finished it could focus fire on the Raadus. The Star Destroyers, as Ecks pointed out in this video, would still be positioned between the dreadnought and the Resistance, to intercept any fighters and bombers.
B3A5T 0F WAR i would just immediately fire on the Raddus the resistance had already evacuated D'Qar and if you cut off the head the others will follow by taking out the Raddus first the resistance would have too many casualties and simply they would fall apart
Evac in progress, done or whatever, if you're going to catch vermin make sure they can't get out first. Raddus and the rest of the resistance fleet should have been the priority target with the base next in line while the star destroyers and fighters provided cover and dealt with the rest. Oh, and shoot the stick jockey when he parks his fighter in front of your ship. Poe should have been dead the moment he opened coms.
Corwin Hyatt that is very true
@ Corwin Hyatt
Amen.
Corwin Hyatt I wouldn't let poe open coms just fucking shoot him the resurgents would just destroy his ship it would stand no chance against 3 resurgents if I could i would simply just bring alot more ships and immediately launch fighters with poe dead the Raddus jumps into hyperspace with the suoremacys tracking and the mandator already charged a couple of shots would destroy the Raddus and then the other ships would just run out of fuel just like in TLJ and that would speel the end of the resistance
Why did they focus the base on the planet and not the resistence fleet?? I mean the base can not jump into hyperspace..
Because Rian Johnson.
actaully I think it could do that, see no reason why not :(
Spencer C true man
Also the base cannot fire back.
I don't think those ships or at least the people piloting them could pull off something like that. We haven't seen that short-distance hyper-jumps are even possible. But, probably only Han could pull it off if such a maneuver does exist.
Don't blame the First Order -- BLAME RIAN JOHNSON and KATHLEEN KENNEDY
"Your Overconfidence is your weakness" - Luke Skywalker.
When the bad guys finally have the chance to win, plot gets in the way.
Could you imagine everyone's reaction if the First Order warped in and destroyed the Resistance with ease.
Yours is better then the movie the alone reason they lived was because of the plot
John Nieves So, just like every battle in the OT? Because if the Empire was competent, the entire Rebellion would have been destroyed in ANH.
Giglefreakz in reality YES but this is fiction where the hero win and the bad guy some what wins so I am not just talking about the last jedi any of the movie could have the hero lose but the problem with the last jedi is it's unrealistic to star war like ship can't keep up with smaller ship they are in space alone motion works up there and ship need gas to go in to hyper space no one said that in ANH,ESB and ROTJ.This is my opinion you have yours and that's ok
Okay, I'll try to go over everything you said, if I miss anything, make sure to tell me.
First, it seems you're a Star Wars fan, so I have to ask, why do you consider this film, and more specifically the tactics and plot-armor of the protagonists, worse than the other ones?
In both the heroes survive the impossible because of the incompetence of their foe, yet you seem to only take issue ith it here.
Second, smaller ships need less energy to move them equally. The Supermacy is huge, whereas the Raddus is comparably very small. The Raddus can accelerate a lot faster than the Supremacy. Since there's no top speed in space, the two could accelerate until they run out of fuel. Since the Raddus accelerates faster, it is going to stay ahead of the Supremacy.
Third, fuel has always appeared in Star Wars. In A New Hope we see the X-wings and Y-wings being refueled, whe know Cloud City is a mining colony which mines fuel.
Even in Legends, hyperdrives required power, so that the new Canon specifies that power as seperate fuel is not going against established ideas.
In the OT fuel was never an issue, so it makes sense it wasn't brought up, but the Resistance is a lot less well equipped than the Alliance, so them being low on basic resources would make sense.
I'm not trying to change your opinion per se, but I'm trying to make you see things in a different light.
Giglefreakz ok now that you mention this I agree
Giglefreakz by the way what's your favorite star wars movie
First off. The first order needs dedicated admirals instead of generals leading the fleet. But you hit the nail on the head
If the First Order were clever, they would not only have used your strategy, but also bothered to include Interdictor technology in some of their ship designs. The Eclipse and Sovereign were terror designs, not just for the firepower or size, but the fact they could prevent or limit escape. Even the Supremacy could have done with forward projecting Gravity Well generators on the wings, to prevent contamination of the Hyperspace detector.
If this movie is to be considered canon than it breaks the entire universe apart.
It does not break anything. The only breaking part was HOLDO manuver but it can be explained...
Yeah that's the only crucial point. Why build death stars when you can just accelerate x mass to destroy y object? We're talking about a universe where apparently nobody knows they can slingshot asteroids into planets to wipe out all life on them without damaging the resources. But considering it's a universe where deploying ground forces on a practically uninhabited strategically valueless ice planet is preferable over planetary bombardment I'm not at all surprised. And where spacecraft maneouvre like if they were flying in an atmosphere and there's gravity and open fire in space and people do weird magic tricks. I'm not exactly sure where the rage comes from, there are entities that directly defy well-established laws of the universe but apparently that's okay. The movie sucks though, even if we don't consider this move. Especially the second half, that's absolutely trash.
Adam Jover, first, there is gravity in space. A stellar mass's gravitational pull doesn't just abruptly stop because an object leaves its atmosphere. Second. fire can certainly burn in open space. The three things needed for a fire are heat, fuel, and an oxidizer. Heat and fuel are readily available and an oxidizer doesn't have to be oxygen (it's just that on Earth, oxygen is the most prevalent oxidizer).
Revan I'm well aware with Newton's Law of Universal Attraction. Notice how I said it gravity didn't abruptly stop. I was merely trying to correct Adam Jover's claim of the absurdity of gravity in space -- when in fact there is still very much gravity. It's the very same reason why the ISS has to travel at almost 5 miles per second in order to maintain orbit around the Earth -- or else it would fall parabolically back down (the fact that they are constantly falling is why they feel weightless).
Revan It's perfect fine. I didn't take offense.
I think hux did a terrible job here. He deserved that face pound from snoke. If you had been in control you would have totally scrapped leia's fleet
He didn't just do a terrible job. He is literally the single worst military commander in the history of serious cinema (e.g. not comedy/parody films like Spaceballs). Every single thing he does in TLJ was wrong or the worst strategy/tactic available; and he makes the OT Empire looks like military super-geniuses by comparison.
The only thing he ever did fine at was overseeing FO Stormtrooper training
Except for that one guy...
He was an administrator and figurehead in TFA. He actually had some bite to go with all his bark when he ordered SKB to be fired. In TLJ he was just the dumbest whipping boy for the sake of it. At least now with Kylo taking more direct command of the FO they might try something proactive again, rather than sitting chasing a puny Resistance fleet for a day and doing absolutely nothing to even attempt to destroy it. That's about the only good thing I can say about the FO in TLJ.
But the expanded universe is so fascinating and gives so much more to work with. For instance, I love the comic where Imperial forces almost get annihilated by spear wielding lizards. just so much interesting stuff built up over years to see in the old canon.
As the film said the hyperspace tracker was only in Snoke's destroyer, I thought, and I think it would have been interesting, for the tracker to actually be Snoke himself.
I don't like the new cannon stuff. The only person that I know likes it is my little sister who never watched the main trilogy until The Farce Awakens came out.
I prefer the new canon of Legends. Legends was a clusterfuck of stories, most of which were just bad or mediocre. They often contradict other stories and are all around anything but a coherent whole.
Pretty much anyone could write a SW story and it really shows. They really just threw anything they could think of into it.
The new Canon is more focussed and consistent. You either prefer Canon or Legends stories, but the execution of the new Canon as a whole is just better.
From what I consider as new canon, I'm referring to the new movies. The show, Rebels, was okay to me. Mostly because of the return of the clone troopers and Thrawn being in it. Still wish they never ended the Clone Wars show.
Ehh... I thought the Standalones, Rogue One and Solo, were excellent and pretty solid respectively, while TFA was OK and TLJ was poor. The only people I know who like TLJ are the youngest members of my extended family.
Ah. That I can agree with. I liked Rogue One, but I can't say anything on Solo, as I have yet to watch it. I just don't like the new story from TFA and TLJ.
legends is best
Him: Hey guys, this is Eckharts Ladder
Subtitles: Hey guys, this is Eckharts Slaughter
Am i the only one who likes FO stormtrooper helmet?it looks terrifying from a civilian's perspective.
Phase one clone helmet - protector
Phase two clone helmet - Order
Stormtrooper helmet - fear
FO Stormtrooper helmet - Enigma, uncertain
The only thing I like about the 1st order. And the resurgence class, and the guards
First order uniforms looks way scarier then storm trooper uniforms
Darth Vader hmm, I have to disagree with you my lord, the stormtrooper helmet seems to look cool, especially the shadow troopers helmet.
The aesthetics of the First Order is very cool in my opinion, but that's about it :/
Why did was the First Order so bad?
Answer: The Resistance has plot armor.
It's like the old joke about the two guns running from the lion. No need to outrun the lion. Just outrun the other guy. The First Order were stupid but still absolute geniuses compared to the Rebels, who were killed down to a baker's dozen or so, and then only by violating the laws of hyperspace.
How are you even still bothering with this? It's over, it's ruined. There's no defending the indefensible. Time to walk away.
Literally more thought went into this video than into the entire writing, acting, editing, and post-production processes of all the Sequel Trilogy films combined. And besides, this strategy would have worked in the film, too! I can imagine the Resistance having their own counter, and it would have sold both sides more effectively to the audience!
My Resistance strategy countering your First Order strategy, by the way, would also put a really cool effects shot in the film - launch a saturation attack. Let's go with your more aggressive option of sending the Star Destroyers ahead. This frees up the Dreadnought to focus fire on the ground target while the Star Destroyers pick off escapees and go after the Resistance fleet in a pincer. Not a lot of Resistance assets make it out, but the Resistance can escape and cut their losses by charging one of the Star Destroyers directly. While its defenses are impressive, an entire fleet focusing the whole of its offensive power in a *wall* of laser and missile fire would overwhelm any shields and close-in turrets, blasting it apart and making a hole in the First Order line for the Resistance to escape through.
Besides, it makes sense for something a Battle of Endor veteran like Ackbar would pull off. He understands more than anyone that, when you're trapped in an ambush, the first priority is to escape the kill zone.
"The First Order didn't know that the evacuation was taking place"
Captain Peavey when the Resurgents jump in: We've caught them in the middle of their evacuation
bruh
I would've just had my ships fire on that stationary X-Wing trying to hail me before it had a chance to advance.
I'd also give a cut-comm order to scramble the fighters in a pot-and-lid fashion to get rid of the known expert pilot before he could do real damage.
I'd then advance two of my tertiary ships toward the in-orbit hostiles, keeping one nearby to watch for any incoming retaliation.
Simple enough strategy, I'd think, but it'd be effective in stomping out the mislabeled "Rebels".
Yeah the First order tactics are bad and they don't really need the dreadnought because the star destroyer's could do orbital attack and to send more FO Tie fighters. Great video you are one of my favorite star wars channel.
Tbh, I would use a modernized version of classic, Battleship Era naval tactics. Use the battlecruisers in a line, with the forward most offset to the starboard side and lower than the ship behind, and have the second battlecruiser forward and starboard downward of the battlecruiser behind it. Then, at the rear, aft of the last battlecruiser and above all three of them is the dreadnought. In this way, all 4 ships can bring its keel and dorsal armaments to bear, with each ship able to fully cover the ship ahead of it. Thus, they each maximize their point defence weapons and the rest of their armament can be brought to bear on the fleet. The point battlecruiser and the one behind would deploy its TIE squadron to assault the fleet, while the dreadnought and last battlecruiser deploy their fighters to manage defense. In this way, to attack, the resistance has to attack each ship successfully, working their way down the line whil under fire by every gun in the FO fleet AND two TIE fighter units. The other option is to bypass the battlecruisers and head for the dreadnought while facing the broadsides, upper and lower point defenses, and tie squadrons in hopes of getting a bomber all the way to the dreadnought, which has ample time to prepare, and you have to work your way upward all the while.
Matthew Boren
beautifully put. and maybe use 3d stuff to augment, could produce a denser formation, with more overlapping fire, if the ship's artificial gravities were amenable.
really great job. I hope someday that movie crowds can appreciate a space battle done by the numbers
I thought the same. The obvious battle cruiser formation, to me, is a web or net along the Z-axis. In this case you would want the Mandator in the middle with a star destroyer placed at 3 equidistant points at 90, 330, and 210 degrees from the perspective of the Mantador. Most any bomber approach would be caught in the crossfire of at least two star destroyers. The formation should be tight upon hyperjump exit then expand as the Resistance scramblers approach, mainly to avoid friendly fire but also to allow for greater coverage by each S.D.'s tie fighter units.
Matthew Boren why didnt you command the fleet?
I would agree. Studying the tactics used during the war in the Pacific during WW2. Your capital ships should always be protected from fighters and bombers
ironclad1o9 The Japanese navy is a pinnacle example of the problem with leading with your capital/flagship.
I know I'm commenting 4 years late but youtube just recommended this video to me and I feel the need to give my take. So here's my idea for how to fix this battle.
Since The Last Jedi takes place immediately after The Force Awakens, The First Order is still reeling from the loss of Star Killer Base.
They have discovered the origin point of the attack and have relayed it to all available capital ships near the area.
The general is still rallying his forces, but the overzealous captain of a dreadnought deliberately ignored the rally point and went straight to the resistance base, knowing that they'd be able to flee before an organized fleet managed to mobilize.
The same events of the battle then take place, only the general (I forgot his name lol) shows up right at the end of the battle to see the dreadnaught get blown up.
The general watches the resistance fleet escape, then calls up Snoke to let him know about the situation so they can coordinate their forces using the hyperspace tracker.
used this subject as a french school essay. got a b
why didn't it use the cannons to target the only ship above the planet
Exactly. Why not just target the stationary planet first because the cannons could get their showtime without being used in a logical manner and destroy the fucking ship the rebels are running to. The tactics are all for show, with the big ship in tye front with no pre-released areial fighters to intercept the ONE fighter that destroyed ALL areial defense cannons. It's utter bullshit from careless people because why not.
Bad plans for a bad movie how fitting.
One thing that the First order could have done to make it a lot easier would be to bring in a interdictor cruiser because of its hyperspace blocking ability and then bring your destroyers super close while picking off the frigates and escorts with your tie's, meanwhile in the back a distance away with a cloud of tie's protecting it, similar to the technique used in the battle of jakku, because you don't need to worry about anything on the ground until your attacking it.
We know from the both the film and novelization that the commander of the Dreadnaught did not approve of the tactics his superiors were using and ordered him to use.
Those superiors being Rian Johnson? :P
No, being General Hux, Kylo Ren, and Snoke.
That's just more bad writing though. Slapping on a layer of bad fan fiction (for your own bad fan fiction) is just making up post-hoc rationalizations for their own half-assed writing. And even worse, they weren't even good post-hoc rationalizations. What, did the emperor not like winning or something? And don't try to feed me some stupid nonsense about "intimidation" because "rebels died in 30 seconds" is way more intimidating than "dumb battleship putzed around for ten minutes"
+Some Guy
Canon novelization = bad fan fiction
Seriously, can you just kindly blow it out of your ass?
@Pladimir Vutin
Haha, man, sensitive about your fan fiction it seems? Well, I got really bad news for you, star wars is like, four layers deep in fan fiction. Here's just the start of it "www.straightdope.com/columns/read/1578/was-star-wars-based-on-flash-gordon/"
You should probably not get so attached to this shit man.