Counter-Strike - Why did Defuse Mode trump Hostage Mode?
Вставка
- Опубліковано 15 тра 2024
- I look back to the game's earliest days to investigate why- despite hostage mode coming first- defuse mode eventually reigned supreme. I also question how things might have been different, and ponder what would be required for the same change to happen today. Oh, and if you think those pie charts with the made up numbers were bad- they were a lot worse without the numbers
0:00 - Intro
1:02 - Defuse VS hostage gamemode
2:23- Hostage's historical changes
5:04 - Why did people play the Counter Strike Betas?
6:26 - Good VS bad outcome determiners
9:04 - Early defuse mode
9:54 - What if?...
10:31 - Applying to the present day
11:19 - Now VS then - Ігри
Honestly, I feel every game is at it’s best when nobody knows how to play it.
except rats
@@BabzaiWWP what was wrong with Rats? and how did it die? I bought it and played it for a few minutes and it seems pretty good. A lot more accessible than other modern parkour-quake-likes.
I get what you mean Yoshi. :)
Early days of discovery.
the reason why PUBG was booming back then
Really want a hostage $1M tournament out of nowhere, give the teams like a weeks notice and see the strats they make. I think it would show the adaptability of the players to test your charts out. Maybe when you hit that $1M from unboxing you can host it!
There's already very broken strat for Ts to just spam util and negevs, leaving CTs something like 20 seconds to take hostages
@@chevi-ev7wd On higher ranks it doesn't work, at least I tried it on some Global Elites and realized it wasn't working with our team even spamming smokes and running the negev all time.
I want the same thing but for KZ.
At least we get cool 1v1 tournaments.
@@fav843 There was a surf competition some time ago that was really fun to watch. It was called "Surf's Up! Winter 2019" if youre interested.
Sadly the personalities that end up being rich end up being super boring and never doing creative wealth burning like this
One problem with Hostage being is that the weapon´s balance is based on Defuse. So AKs being cheaper than m4s and so on only make the gamemode worse simply because during balance updates, all eyes are on Defuse while Hostage gets left behind.
The prices aren't, but the gains are balanced in favor of cts. For every hostage you pick in the round your whole team gets 600$ and you get additional 300$, rescuing a hostage gives your team another 600$, additional 1000$ for you (and again, that's for every hostage you rescue that round), and on top of that you get money for winning the round. As CTs it's possible to earn 7900$ in a single round.
@@kuba4ful but will you ever earn $7900 when they start out with the economical advantage
I agree. Terrorists should have a harder time getting packed than SWAT lmao.
@@AleK0451 Yeah it's pretty hard to get the 7900$ (I play hostage a lot and it only happened to me when we were already roflstomping the other team), but it's not hard to get a fraction of that.
Picking up a hostage is equivalent to planting a bomb in defuse, but gives 900$ instead of 300$. And winning at least one round by carrying the hostage gives you a bit of economical advantage.
I agree it could (and should) be balanced more, but in terms of economy it's not so one-sided as people think.
And the Galil being a cheaper m4 for t side only.
I miss VIP, it was tense, and getting those pistol kills felt cool. Because of it's nature the maps were sprawling and interesting, and it was a nice flip to have the Ts on the offensive throughout.
oilrig!
Tundra
Man oil rig was my fav...cause it was so tense
i just want weapons expert to be back :(
glad i didnt have to scroll far to see someone saying vip
i'm an office grub and not gonna lie, listening to the CT base ambient sound at the start of the game is the most soothing feeling
Office is love office is life
Office lovers are superior
Office is nice and all, but Assault was truly a masterpiece… still haunts my dreams that it was removed
Office for life baby i have like 3k hours on that map 😍
Listening to Lord GabeN's voice at T-Spawn is an equally enlightening experience.
Philip being absolutelly right. Through the years I didn't care what mode I was playing I just thought it was cool to play as a special force unit rescuing a hostage. Nowadays like he said: if CS doesn't change it gets boring and if it changes we resist the change and mock Valve for everything. We are just too spoiled. There isn't this childish look anymore where you could get impressed by the game itself.
There's still many people playing all these interesting maps, it's just those competitive players wanting to make an e-sport out of everything
Remember VIP maps like as_oilrig? I actually really liked that one
Facts, people are like spoiled childern nowadays
@@ashokrohan7232 Yeah but people don't appreciate anything different, everyone likes specific maps that are not even that good
Because you arent a child anymore lmaooo
A problem that I think gets overlooked is the main weapons as well, T's have ak's available every round, and having the superior guns while also having defenders advantage is another reason why hostage is hard to balance.
What if the hostages spawned near CT Spawn, and the hostage rescue zone is halfway across the map near T Spawn? Or what if, CT Spawns in the center of the map (With hostage rescue zone) but the hostages spawn on the right and left side of the map. Though I doubt that changes anything, and, isn't the first one like the VIP Game mode?
In original CS. CTs had the better Guns. More accurat M4 and Aug.
@RetributionAngel just recently got back into CS after a 15 year break (last played in 2008), and your not kidding. M4 was always better than the AK. (For me that is) Now not so much.
@@Evil_Chronic .... for those of you that actually play competitively aks was always considered the best. The problem that you guys mention is the same problem in valorant. Since Val is a new game of course players would choose the lower skill cap gun saying that it's "better" then you know after someone actually trains there skills on an high skill cap gun guess what? All the pros have to start shifting to learn how to use the better gun just like in cs.
@@Evil_Chronic
Ofc becuase you cant hit...
If you listen closely, VIP gamemode fans are still dead
As_tundra
as_oilrig
Func_vehicle
@@davidbanan. func_vehicle is a right, not a privilege.
Protect the VIP, team!
I definitely agree that Defuse is better for competitive games because it's more dynamic and players have more to worry about, but I honestly think Hostage could be just as popular as a casual alternative with just a few changes. More maps and BETTER maps is the big one, but I think the weapon pool also needs a shakeup so the attacking team has better weapons, just like in Defuse.
Maybe they could give Terrorist weapons Hostage-only nerfs, or raise their prices, or replace the better ones with new weapons that are balanced for Hostage. The riot shield is a great addition for CTs and I hope it's a sign Valve will start experimenting more soon.
I think it would be cool to attack imbalance in Hostage matches while maintaining the ostensible "realism" characteristic of csgo. Make it like Dog Day Afternoon (with Al Pacino) : 6 CTs vs 2 Ts or some similar ratio. Ts can drag hostages around. Maybe Ts can move (destructible) objects around to barricade, and perhaps some nearly indestructible objects like fridges and dumpsters if 2 Ts work together to move the thing. Tricky to implement but very cool I think.
I think there are two main problems that are holding back hostage mode from being fun for casual play. First one is the bringing back the hostages part. It just gives terrorists a stupid easy way to win by camping ct spawn. If the rescue zone would be in a different location, maybe it would bring more wight on actually defending the hostages.
Second problem is, as you said, the weapons. In defuse the balance comes from t-side having the one tap potential on a very cheap weapon since it is already very hard to get control of areas. You have a clear advantage on straight on gunfights, which gives you a fighting chance against the cts just locking every entrance down. But on hostage, the already strong side has the better weapons, which just makes it even worse to attack than it already is.
Honestly hostage just needs a full on remake, the idea is good, but the execution is flawed. The maps are also really imbalanced and there are way too few of them. If they were to add Assault and Italy back, I think the hostage mode would see way more casual players.
Money nerf is a good idea. For t imo
Two or three hostage extraction zones might be a good idea too. Maybe instead of them being in the ct spawn they could be independent locations.
@@languaj I also really like the idea of multiple, independent hostage rescue zones. Makes it harder for the Ts to camp when a hostage is taken, kinda bringing in that Defuse dynamic where the defending team suddenly has to be on the attack.
I would LOVE to see a viable hostage map and it beeing played in the active map pool.
Hostage plays out so much differently to defuse it wouldn't make sense in a competition. I'd rather separate hostage comps
@@tomhumphries912 exactly... hostage can spawn "in office" at differend locations... only down side is that hostage position does not change every round... but only at the start of the whole match... honestly hearing that hostage is less versatile then dust 2 made my ears bleed... Office it self had often faster search time then dust 2... why!? bcs ppl are playing it bcs its fucking awesome map where you can use all guns at ANY!!! situation... unlike dust_2 where you cant use mac10 against AK47... its a map for mid to long range... but office its map for EVERY FUCKING WEAPON... fuck Phillip for not seeing that
@@tomhumphries912 Thats what i would like to see. I dont think any hostage map is viable for comp play rn but maybe at some point there will be one which changes the "hostage meta" drastically.
Agency is pretty good actually
@@Sonkh23600 maybe is ct had another root to hostages like scaffolding going around the building or a vent
I actually liked the condition zero hostages, and the change back to doormats in source and eventual downgrade to glorified flags in global offensive was kind of a bummer for me.
In fact, hostage rescue is no longer hostage rescue, but basically a one sided, sudden death ctf, and that sucks big time.
I disagree, I think the pathing issues of the old hostages got annoying very quickly.
Imo the hostages in CSGO makes a lot more sense, they're tied up and can't move, meanwhile the older versions were just there standing there like idiots. Although you're right, it's a one sided CtF
@@madensmith7014 seems like you’d earn the time it’d take to cut their restraints by not having to carry them out
I love the Insertion II map, and it feels kind of balanced in casual. I do however think it is better for 10v10 than the normal 5v5. I'd love to see a 10v10 pro match on Insertion II. The CT's need a lot better coms to really punish the fact that they spawn surrounding the T's. Also increase the round time.
that would be interesting to see! i would love to see that.
That would be awesome
Yeah I feel like 3 or 4 minute rounds would be better
Insertion II is knacks
I still love hostage mode, but the maps aren't getting as much love and attention as defuse mode.
nice pfp
Office and assault are the shit.
@@Digity. The typical counterstrike players right here
@@Digity. assault is shit, office is fine
@@the_officials38 He said "the shit", doesn't it mean "good"?
one has to love how "spaced out" the hostages are on cs_office. Any win on that map as a CT is T's getting cocky and stupid.
In ye old days, you needed all four hostages. Thus you would have to get the two hostages first, then either run through T spawn or rotate all around. But now, it's just one hostage that's needed so it's very easy on maps like office.
Nah its just a well made play from ct
The placement is random. There are nine locations that can be chosen and stay the whole game. If you get the back hallway and paper, it can be almost balanced. If you get spawn and projector, then tough luck winning a round as CT.
Or matchmaking being broken.
@@_TeXoN_ that's true, well put
I loved the herding cats gameplay of hostage rescue in CS:S. The unpredictability and the situations it would generate meshed really well with the 'action movie shootout scene' atmosphere of most of the maps. Compounded with the poor accuracy of public server denizens resulting in hundreds of rounds fired, through walls and windows (and vents). That chaos is something that I feel CS:GO is sadly lacking at the moment, although the riot shield coming back is a welcome step in the right direction.
Do you play any games now that give you that feeling? The 'action movie shootout scene', I mean.
i feel like the reason that being T is so much easier in Hostage is because how the maps are built, Office for example has, in essence, 2 chokepoints that everyone has to go through, the rotation distance between them is essentially taking 2 steps back and looking the other way. thats the problem IMO, not the fact that its Hostage mode. if that one sidedness was alleviated, i think it also would change the balance, in that CTs would have more than 1 survivor at the end of the round and could send the hostage carrier back with the rest of the team camping for the Ts, sort of reversing the situation. with the new hostages, it would work, though i agree that in older games the hostage mode is really really bad, just because the hostage AI sucks.
@@spacewargamer4181 what? i meant the T side where the entrance to the back of the office from long and the one from the front/paper are visibile from the middle, i mean yes you can get smoked off, but you can still at least nade and spray both sides pretty mich immediately.
No I feel office is 60/40 balanced since as u play ct u can smoke storage and push main with a flash and awp support with Molly and side hall if hostage is outside is the easiest but if inside you will need 2 smgs to push with flashes and smoke choke points that are the main area and awp nest
@@maxxdhaliwal ya i dont get all this whining about ct on office
Man, I loved Hostage back in the day, honestly the nostalgia I have for CS makes me kinda sad, thinking about what it has become nowadays
It became good
@Mr Devil shirtless man hot
@@Eluvix Well that's subjective. Personally, I think it was at it's peak 1-2 years after release.
Too much focus on skins, at the detrement to the gameplay. Weapons that have existed since launch are still unviable or poorly balanced, every map is made super clean and prop and personality free for the elite xxXMLGXxxx proplayers leisure (the horrible lightning changes due to the new agents comes to mind), it's such a different game from 1.6 and CSS mostly positive but also alot of negative
@@Grandmaster-Kush it's not even that, they came out with "retakes" so I give it a shot with bots and it's just horrible, my bot teammates just constantly place themselves in between me and the enemy without taking action and even just looking at me, constantly flashing in the bombsite we're defending when attacked by CT's, and playing on CT's half your team just stands around in spawn like you don't need them, or they push the other bombsite even though at the beginning of the round over the radio comes "bombsite B" and your team goes A? it's really a fucking joke how bad it is. it's not that the gamemode is bad, I love playing retakes it's just to valve a higher bot level just means your own teammates screw you, not harder bot a.i. that's just stupid.
I miss playing absurd maps like old Militia in competitive as CT. Just because you knew you were gonna lose most of rounds. Every round won felt like victory to us and we came up with weird strategies to try. Insertion 2 brings this feeling now back as there are so many different things you can do there, although I still liked first Insertion more.
Ah yes, ppl "miss" playing maps but when the maps were there these same ppl missing those maps never queued for them 😂😂😂😂
@@Ultra289sure dude
You know everything
This explains very well what I miss the most in CS, when the game required a bit of memorisation but mostly raw skills. This is, good aim and movement. Now, you also have to memorise angles, nades, strategies, timing, calls, etc. In other words, it used to be pure action and fun, and now it's mostly strategy and thinking, which is more like Rainbow Six. Said that, a little bit of memorisation is nice until certain point, but when you have too many things to memorise and internalise for each map, you kill the fun. This problem has been increasing throughout the years and, IMO, the sweet spot was passed long time ago. That's why most of players only play Dust 2 or few more maps, because it takes a lot time to dominate a single map and finally have some fun. And that's why _Casual_ , _Deathmatch_ or _Arms Race_ are more fun than _Competitive_ . BTW, you forgot _Assassination Mode_ .
As_oilrig :d
But I like Competitive ;-; 10v10 is just too crowded for me
Not sure what elo you are, but i feel like you are speaking for a minority.
Elos of MG and below do not give a shit about anything you just mentioned. everyone knows a handfull of tricks, i myself know 3 smokes for cache and thats it. Never used flashbangs in my 1000 hours.
Im not sure why people take this game so seriously. I just recently got back into it, and ham having a blast playing with friends after work. I dont feel forced to learn a meta and its like 90% aiming and movement.
@@herrherr2086 Agreed, you can def playing with half decent stack with mediocre aim knowing like a few basic smokes and flashes get up to faceit level 5 or higher and DMG as long as your aim and movement is there
@@herrherr2086 You just illustrated the entire problem
You've not even used everything in the game.
The Hostages from CS:CZ where the best. They could escape by themselves. I remember seeing a hostage making it to CT spawn and escaping by it self.
I do not remember what the game said when it left but I think it was "A hostage has escaped" or what it was.
Ah that sounds so cool
It said "All hostages have been rescued"
@@dalilconstanzewithanmp5464 Thats when they all escape. Not when one escapes by itself.
@@NatzoXavier However, I saw one escaping by itself, nothing happens.
@@dalilconstanzewithanmp5464 In CS:CZ it says. "A Hostage has escaped."
i wish hostage was more popular, and more balanced.
What about good ol' VIP mode where a CT had 200 armor and only a USP :D
The first cs_insertion honestly reminded me of the as_ maps where you were in a forest with a river and also had to evac to a helicopter.
I remember playing that one oil rig map in VIP mode with bots. Good times.
as_oilrig... The only assassination map left in retail 1.6 afaik
Oilrig, I remember that map. It's so dark.
I hate to lose my weapons
As long as you play matchmaking on office with only one or two friends in your lobby you're still able to lose as T because you get two to three drunk Russians in your team and the enemy team always consists of five ESL legends giving you onetaps in Silver you'd only expect at DMG or higher.
office is 80+% people who have played only office since 1999
THIS. You even start becoming buddies with the enemy team because there is like 40 players matchmaking on hostage maps
@@WelcomeToLaMatanza nah, in reality you just get tilted and trashtalk your team
I'm in the us so I have little to no experience with the Russians but I do enjoy soloqing office because you meet some interesting people on it lol
yes it's so screwed up, the enemy team get's to have 5 cheaters whereas mine can only have 4 :(
0:25 The nostalgia is strong with this splash screen. I remember it vividly as a kid. The golden days of CS when everyone was playing it.
Everyone remembers that loading screen, because you saw it 10 times until you managed to actually join the game; even on LAN. 😄
Maps like insertion are the only kinds of maps that make hostage fun for me.
@Mr Devil NO
*make CSGO fun.
@@ChrisD__ Yeah, no.
I miss Assault
@@nagashimayt9083 oh damn, i forgor about assault.
Man this video feels like a dissection of why I fell out of competitive gaming in general. I remember every single thing he talked about in this video and I disliked so many of them at the time and these exact things killed Overwatch and every other game that was just fun for a while but then got sweaty. Halo and Call of Duty did the same thing. Battlefield. I just got bored of competitive shooters. Hell even Borderlands went CoMpEtItiVe and I mean that in the most offensive way. You can't spend forever learning the same game. You will eventually reach your skill cap. You will get bored.
Borderlands?? The series with "one billion guns"?? How the F does that work I thought it was a co-op game at best?
@@hunter00143 they added raids in 2 then went all in on them by adding loot timers and making them feel like mmo raids
@@SkylorBeck oh I thought you meant like a competitive PvP type thing
@@hunter00143 That's the baffling part. They continued to add raids and competitive style content to a singleplayer/coop game. I have no idea why they did this but it totally killed the game for me.
Well I hope you've moved on to something you can enjoy
There was this hostage map called "Workout" that felt balanced to me
i miss that map
Workout is big bu tin the end it all converges to small hostage area, and if you steal hostage you again have to go to tiny rescue area that can be camped. maybe really insertion type maps are the future for hostage rescue mode.
I think that was Operation Vanguard? Back in 2014, that was fun. I miss those days haha
Very memorable
Workout was literally one of my favourite Operation maps EVER added to the game.
It's terrifying that there is now such a massive "hardcore" scene in gaming that literally no game can come out and not be a cesspit of sweat within weeks of release. CS:GO is a prime example of when a game lives too long for its own good.
Same issue in Minecraft servers, every new server is 100% sweats
CS has a pretty compatitive community since it's early days.
I used to play CS:S for several thousand of hours and I had many servers with different game modes: Deagle Only, Team Deathmatch, Minigames, Zombies, Zombie Escape, Bunny Hoping, ...
It was so much fun.
So when CS:GO was released it just felt empty, blank and boring because in the beginning there wasn't even a deathmatch or ranked mode.
The game had big problems with player count in the beginning and it almost looked as if CS:GO might die.
But the introduction of ranked and colorful skins you can get our of cases and trade it somehow survived.
I started playing CS:GO 1 year after ranked was released and between 2013-2015 I grinded my way up from Silver 2 (my first rank) to Supreme Master First Class.
Then the rank reset happened and I was thrown back to Master Guardian 1.
So between 2015-2017 I had to grind my way back to Supreme again until I finally reached The Global Elite.
But in this time the game already died for me because the cheater problem got worse and worse and Valve did nothing about it.
That's why after I reached Global Elite I quit CS and switched to PUBG instead which was fun for the first 2-3 years but eventually died as well.
In 2020 I switched to Valorant and have been playing since release. And to be honest it's the better version of CS:GO for me. Better servers, no cheaters and a report system that actually works.
People want the satisfaction of winning, that’s always been the case, the only difference is that in the past it was a lot easier to win with less effort and less skills because everyone was bad at the games they played. You don’t need much effort to win when your opponents are just as shit as you are.
Nowadays, a lot of skills carry over across games, and you’re pitted against 2+ decades of experience, so getting that sweet dopamine from dominating your opponents takes a lot of effort, cause you can’t just blindly run and gun against competent opponents.
It’s not easy to “be good” at games anymore, so unless you invest the time and effort into getting on the same level as others, you’re not gonna have fun dying every round after 5 seconds.
@@JackoBanon1 valorant is not better
well, I know just the thing to prevent extreme sweatfests in a game.
RANDOM CRITS.
insertion 2 is awesome but still really hard for CTs, it's too easy to get on a roof and snipe everyone, I love the map though, same as militia (my favorite map)
I have the "go up on the ladder and snipe" syndrome in militia
Congrats on 1 mill bro
Lmao he hit 1mil a while ago now, unfortunately he's just not had much sub growth. Also I think you mean 'congrats', not 'congested' lol.
@@awppenheimer fuck the spelling error but anyways I have not watch him in a little bit and I liked his content a lot but I moved away from csgo and I saw one of his videos pop up and thought I should watch and and saw he was at 1 mil
I like the melancholic endings to the videos of 3kliksphilip it is really something you wont get anywhere else.
posting a video in the middle of the night
no wonder i turned into a night person
I think you could fix hostage mode by completely restructuring how the maps work. Have Ts start on the hostages yes, but split the hostages between hostage sites. Design the maps in such a way that there are viable flanking routes to get behind the terrorists, and make the return to CT spawn take longer than the journey from it to the hostage site. To still make it so the CTs aren't forced to push the whole time, make it so the round timer doesn't end once the hostage is picked up until the CT with the hostage dies or the hostage is extracted. CTs can risk going overtime, not having to push but losing the round much easier, or they can push back to their spawn. In this way you are pretty much having a defuse map where you need to take site control, but then switching up the ending of the gamemode, which is how I believe gamemodes should work. You see something like this in the alternate gamemodes of siege, with secure area and hostage being the same as bomb but with a different end game, and I think that's how gamemodes should be balanced in tactical fps games. Hostage would still be a more casual gamemode, but It would certainly be more competitive and less of a tdm.
de_fenestration...
I think one of the biggest issues are the maps themselves, they are full of suicidal hallways so the only way for the CTs to win is to wait for the terrorists to use all their grenades, pre fire every corner just in case and A LOT of teamwork. In maps like Italy losing an angle is basically losing the match most of the time, in Office if the hostages spawn far away from the exits the CTs will never have a chance to rescue them. The terrorists also have better weapons, wich is actually not a big deal since most of the time they just need the IQ of a 3 year old, lots of grenades and a negev or an awp to cockblock the CTs. Luckily, the riot shield now allows you to peek and get information without dying wich is nice I guess, just hope they don't throw grenades at you.
These charts go straight out the window in silver. Hostage is pretty balanced just because of how much variance there is in player skill even within the same skill group.
@@3kliksphilip you're right. I get the feeling hostage plays best on pubs and community servers or anything without skill based matchmaking for that reason and indeed that's how it was designed and kept all these years.
Yeah it's pretty fun in silver
I'll be patiently waiting for the million dev texture patterns from now on!
"How many games can still claim to be going ten years on?"
Most games, actually.
I know some guys who still trade Pokémon Mystery Dungeon: Explorers of Sky rescue codes every week.
All you need for a game to still be played ten years down the line is a few or even just one player who still cares about it, and a developer who puts in the effort to keep the game preserved for later generations.
One of the first video games ever was Oregon Trail, debuting all the way back in 1970. That's well before most video game players today were born. The game is still remembered fondly and still played to this day. There's no reason to think that any game that's loved right now won't be played in 10 years apart from developers neglecting to preserve it after it ceases to be profitable.
I love community map called Extraction. It's hostage mode, where CT start closer to hostage, but have to choose between two Hostage Rescue zones. After they enter one of the zones with the hostage, then they have to wait for a moment (20 seconds?) for a helicopter to arrive to that zone. And only then it becomes an active rescue zone! It it tons of fun, and something really different than other modes.
I feel like Basalt is the best new map, it feels beginner-friendly, and the atmosphere is fresh. I'll be sad when it's gone, I'm sure.
I didn't play it but for some reason I don't like how it looks. It's kind of flat and empty imo
Same for Austria and that one Oilrig map years ago
It looks really fun
It is shit clusterfuck.
I remember playing on assault on 1.6 and it was so fun defending the warehouse with my friends.
Miss those days…
Assault is very unbalced in csgo. They really need to fix the lighting
assault, italy, survivor, prodigy, piranesi etc... Miss it so much
Estate Assault and backalley were my favourite. Estate was my favourite but backalley is a great map with cool visuals and a chill night feel
Hostage needs it's own eco settings. As it is now, Ts have map control advantage, role advantage, and eco advantage. Raise gun prices for Ts and/or lower prices for CTs across the board. CTs absolutely need a significant eco advantage.
Bruh, if you pickup 1 hostie you're downing in cash, it's fantastic
@@Snowmad0 If
@@Choochinc It's really not that difficult. Just throw a few smokes and hold w
The footage and the background music makes this video so nostalgic to watch. I really miss playing 1.6 with my friends :'(
This makes me remind me of when I used to play assault or other hostage maps with friends or randoms and have loads of fun. Or playing other game modes such as gun game, zombie mode. I was horrible in all of them but I still had more fun than any video game Ive played lately. Is that growing up? I really miss playing 1.6
I still play 1.6 from time to time. I enjoy it more than Global Offensive.
Nice analysis, as players become more perfect, map design has to become more symmetric and "simple", but this makes things more boring. A similar thing's happened to StarCraft 2.
Recently there's been a few 8-way FFA SC2 tournaments, it seems like it'd work with enough funding.
I enjoy every game when it's just new players experimenting with everything. As Metas build, people play with the same 4 weapons the pros do and try way too hard, the game becomes stale..becomes so automated.
Good video as always. One thing to note - hostage maps help to balance the economy by swapping the mid-round cash objective over to CT.
I’m glad they brought agency back because it’s probably the best hostage map
Anyone else have nostalgia from playing cs_mansion back in 1.6?
The thing i loved about css was the multitude of game modes creates by the playerbase. Gun game, surf, surf rpg, bhop, zombie, prison, 32 player pugs w/ various stipulations, deathmatch, and competitive 5v5 leagues and scrims.
Wow those charts were insanely smart! Great job Phill!
This was awesome, a really great explanation of CS’s history and the “state of the game” for lack of a better term. Thanks a lot for sharing this with us man! You’ve opened my computer-strained eyes. Keep it up and God bless you :)
Hostage in CS Source was my favorite mode to play, usually on Assault. I think a lot of it was because it was part of that time in Source games like CSS and DODS where you just chatted over VOIP with people randomly in public servers and you tried to win but it generally wasn't competitive.
Actually, since Insertion 2 came out, i fell in love with hostage mode, and i think it's even more dynamic than defuse mode
Yea its even better than the first Insertion map
As someone whose solely played Office (and met a lot of wonderful people who only play it) starting CT first is a relief.
Really interesting analytical video - one of my favorites and I've been a fan for a few years now. I agree with most of the points you make, solid summary.
it's a shame that anubis was taken out. it really felt at home in csgo
I adored that map! Me and my friends loved it, the layout was splendid!
i loved mocha too :( bright n sunny n was fun
Yeah anubis was pretty decent, and as soon as I was starting to enjoy it they removed it from the game
Good news
As someone who grew up playing a 32 person officer server back in 1.6, Hostage use to be popular. But CSGO hid the community browser so far in the options no one finds them.
Zyzzzyydzyy zxdtuyztdz
ZEUS
Mentioning Anubis broke my heart. I loved that map. I hope they bring it back sometime
I made my friends try new maps like ancient and anubis with me for the first time because i understand that trying new things brings so much value to experiences and life.
Although there was a transition period we had a blast!
What do you think about making a video on changing hostage maps into defuse maps?
I like the hostage maps, I just don't like the mode itself.
I'm waiting for the "case unboxing millionare until I get an emerald" video. Love u kliks, keep up the great work!
I always loved playing on big 40 man team deathmatch servers with cs_office, the layout was splendid for the particular game mode! The points that you’ve brought up in this video are exactly why I’ve given up on CSGO, it is simply too much of a commitment to have fun as, in order to have fun, you have to be “good”!
I liked both Hostage versions
The old and new one
Old one was fun with the armada of hostages following you haha
Honestly, Agency is really balanced. Ts get the normal game mode advantage but CTs get lots of attacking points and different strategies they can do. I can only recommend Agency for everyone, because it really feels like a defuse experience. Also because Ts have to defend, and then actually attack, because the spawn is so huge they have to actively search for the hostage carrier.
Agency is the most T sided map I've played ever, I've had matches there that ended 15-15 with both teams getting the 15 rounds on T side.
ah when i was young playing counter i clearly remember the adrenalin rush you would get when running back with the hostages in cs_italy while the opera song ell sol dell anima got more and more faint!
Was literally just in a fucking surf server with this guy, congrats on 1 mil Philip. Love you xx
I'll tell you where the value in learning new maps is! It makes it feel like the old days when everyone sucked! Some of my favourite CS play time was Operation Payback, playing maps like cs_motel(?) where everyone was bad and nobody knew what was going on, and everyone was having a blast chatting over comms. Also cs_museum! What a fun time that was.
11:25 I remember wanting to play new operation maps desperately with the boys but realizing fast that we are not global outside of dust 2..... a good thing casual is there now. This wouldn't happen today
Insertion2 is soooo well designed, it made me reconsider what is wrong with hostage mode. In casual mode this map feels so immersive, and Ts are incentivised to move around as the map is bigger and hostages are spread in different buildings. I think that 5v5 is not a good format for hostage maps, they need more players, spread in groups like in insertion2 to get this SWAT operation feel. Even the time management is great in this map design : CTs can creep up to the hostages slowly and will have the last few seconds to untie an hostage, then get the bonus time to escape.
Since the start of this operation, I spent more time in casual insertion2 than in any other mode even if I hate playing every other hostage maps.
Very well done analysis Philip :D
Such an underrated video. One of the best Philip did lately.
where is my as_oilrig
I love that map. Not even kidding. Too bad they never revisited it.
i wish anubis was added to the comp pool, literally my favorite map
2:06 was one of the trippiest dolly zooms I have ever seen, that was crazy
I loved hostage maps back in the day. I also always used to think about what it would be like if you could do both modes in a map, i.e. doing defuse mode in Office, or hostage mode in inferno.
And I will always love the long forgotten VIP mode -- as_oilrig RIP
I think tournaments have big part in popularity of maps and gamemods. Similar to that jump of popularity of AUG that one time.
i like the thumbnail
as a early beta upto 1.6 player I love that these videos have a slight "back in my day" underlying in them haha. The 5min mark rexplained it really well, ive struggled with the competitive nature of CSGO coming from the casual community server background, I just dont have the drive (or want) to be better then anyone else or have the highest most impressive rank - I just love the CS mechanics, weapons & gameplay.
I was thinking about implementing a new hostage mode, where the maps have a similar structure to defuse mode.
2 sites, each one has 1 hostage, Ts have to split to defend both sites, Cts have to choose one site and rescue a hostage, but instead of taking them to the Ct spawn area, they put a fulton device on the hostage and defend until he is extracted.
The T side to avoid this have to either "defuse" the fulton device (10 seconds without kit and 5 with kit) or kill the other team.
CTs win either by killing the other team or by extracting a hostage (only 1 can be rescued per round)
The fulton device acts like bomb, meaning only 1 CT can carry it, and it can be dropped, and be seen by the enemy team, appearing in their radars.
Basically it is just defuse mode but the roles are inverted.
This is actually smart, so both Ts and CTs can be on the offense and defense
@@Neotrec thanks for your opinion, it seems like nobody came up with a similar idea.
I was thinking to make a workshop map so people can see, play and decide if its good.
The good thing about such mode is that you could reuse the defuse maps only making some changes to the bomb sites, mostly the roof area, so it makes sense for a plane to fly by and grab the hostage.
Anyone else miss the old FBI voicelines? They gave them the SWAT ones because they lacked quotes for bomb defusal mode
I firmly believe that Office is one of the best maps in current pool. Lately in map making there was too much focus on rifle aim-duels. Office still offers to chance to have fun effectively with a shotgun or SMG - as well as plenty of room to try out bold and unusual tactics.
I really enjoy hostage mode though I never thought the maps were that good for it. I always thought about having some maps where CT's already start with the hostages and have to travel to an extraction point, which there could be a couple of. That way there's less attacking/defending but rather finding/chasing.
I fell in love with 1.6 and source through playing office (on T) followed by dust2. I remember there were even 24/7 office+dust2 servers since they were by far the most popular maps for casuals. I only stopped playing office and learned other maps when I started filling for a friend’s competitive team
I disagree on hostage mode being fundamentally flawed. The problem with hostage mode is that the meta isn't as well known and developed.
It shows that you haven't played office at all.
CT Meta: smoke short mid, nade shelves, molotov kitchen, rescue the hostage, get confused because you are not sure in wich one of the 5 halls the kid screaming in your team was killed
T Meta: Haha negev go brrrr
@@TonyRidesDirtbikes i have, with a cordinated team, its not nearly as T sided as people claim it to be.
@@lukasg4807 Then your playing against people wose than you lol.
1:56 that's not how it works
The terrorists don't typically sneak off to the hostage save point (besides for militia and Insecrtion)
Typically the cts get a hostage and then force the terrorists to run full sprint to even get a chance to win the round
Maps like Italy give no chance to terrorists in clutch situations unless they already planned for a late game situation
Thats cap man, Italy has so many clutch chances for T side
Congratulations on 1M subs man. Also, your videos are way better when you sound pro-active or I should say excited rather calm and slow.
it astounds me every time i watch these historical comparison videos about cs how quickly the betas actually came out in succession ...
but how it felt like an eternity (in a positive way) playing each beta...
The biggest missing thing in csgo is Bhop. Also never understood why Valve made community made maps available for only a short time, most of them are insanely good.
I hate bhopping but even I have to admit it's a shame they removed it...
They should have been able to find the same balance the cs 1.6 communities eventually found: Implement the damn thing as an actual mechanic with straightforward inputs that can be enabled and disabled as the server, map or game mode demands.
Hostage needs fixed hostage spawns !
The rng can absolutely make the map impossible for ct.
Also, they need better maps. Currently only office and insertion are kinda balnced
have you played Apollo ? it was very good and balance
i really hate it when they removed it, i mean what the harm of keeping one hostage map ?
@@rotua98 I liked Apollo, although O think the Ts had little chance to win once a hostage was taken due to the distance between tem both. But the main problem is that the map was very laggy for a lot of people.
You're confirming what I thought. Hostage maps need to be bigger than normal. I've build my own map while watching your videos (thx for help, you're the best) and designed it to be a defuse maps at first. But then I realized that it's way too big and I made a hostage map out of this and it worked much better than defuse mode.
Great video once again sir!
While I agree with most of the points, it should be noted that game can or maybe even should be fun without extra "balancing" and "competitiveness". I believe that people forgot about that after the years with cybersports constantly banging on our ears. You used "balance" and its synonyms so much in the video, I suddenly understood how foreign they sound to someone who gave up this toxic seriousness of competitive matches and started just enjoy fun dumb things.
Ofc balance is important in the end of the day, but if casual playlists are alive and popular after so many years, maybe we are forgetting something important about having simple fun.
AS_OILRIG will for ever and alwqays have a place in my heart
There's so many of us but we're spread across the world
@@maxemore Where are you when I want to play
I like how at 1:00 you're using the CS:S beta/day one models along with the CS:GO SAS
well, considering we include popular community maps, there were a lot of cs_ maps where hostages were split into 2 x 2 locations - so either T side had to split or only focus on one hostage location. same as with de_ where CT can either split in a 50/50 ratio or value the defense of one bombsite over another due to whatever strategic reason.
Anubis > Ancient
11:13. That's where office shines. You can just barely line up smokes at all and so few people are aware of good util lines that nobody does that lol
Ive always loved hostage because it was another perspective to look at the game and add a tactical challenge. Videos like these always remind me of how good counter strike is
You nailed it with the pie chart