Should Vegans Be Protected From Discrimination?
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- Опубліковано 26 лют 2024
- Let’s say you fight forest fires. You spend long hours during certain periods of the year expending a lot of energy and putting your life at risk to protect others. You’re also vegan. Should your employer (your government) be required to provide you with vegan food?
In other words, should veganism be a protected belief? Should vegans be protected from discrimination under the law?
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how hard is it to give a serviceman an option to have lentils/beans, rice, and/or potatoes in a lunchbox? literally the cheapest items in the market
as an omnivore I'm offended that I would just pop open a can of beans for you vegans.
@@Paputsza Haha indeed. "You vegans are spoiled brats for making me open this can of beans!"
I do think veganism should be a protected belief, if people's right to eat a certain way because of their religion is, why should ethics be any less valid than that?
Because vegans wont admit veganism is a cringe religion for western Karens that is basically a cringe version of Hinduism
@@GarudaLegends Thanks for being so obsessed with veganism that you'll spend time in the comments boosting engagement. Your efforts do not go unnoticed, stalwart warrior for veganism
What systemic oppression do vegans face? Not disagreeing, but the US barely has protections for groups who face discrimination in housing, jobs, schools, government policy, etc. We do not face discrimination in the same way as religious/racial minorities and LGBT people
Nevermind this is in Ontario lmao yeah it should be protected. Just didn’t see the point in canvassing for protections for vegans when the US has many other things to get a hold of that cause more harm
@@GarudaLegendsdude what are you doing? Go get a life rather than watch and comment on videos about topics you hate lol you do not need to self harm like this
Considering that Scientology is considered a religion in Canada, I think veganism deserves to be considered a creed.
It’s so crazy to me, that we put more emphasis and care into an existential being, that may or may not exist, than actual, living, breathing humans, and animals. Religion is truly the root of all evil in my opinion.
What?!?!??!?! 😮
Yeah I remember reading that Scientology itself says you can be a scientologist christian, or other religion.
I was thinking the exact same thing 💀
In Portugal it's now illegal to not provide a vegetarian/vegan option in all public services.
portugal being based once more
Sounds like big government
@@user-vx8qt9cd8o sounds like basic decency
Same in Norway!
What?? That's amazing. I'm going there this summer.
Imagine if plant-based food was what was provided in the first place. It would be cheaper, would store better and would help prevent strokes and heart attacks in stressful jobs.
Agreed. It's very clear the decision against is an emotional one and not what is safest (no raw meat contamination), cheapest and healthy...not to mention also free of most, if not all allergens, depending on the menu. Everyone can eat with no discrimination and far less suffering.
*EXACTLY!!!!* 👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻
@@laranadesign4764 There is still risk of infection of deadly bacteria, parasites, or viruses (which can cause pandemics) with cooked 🥩, disease & cancer risk, and of course the existential threat toall of us of climate change & environmental collapse, & inefficiency & terrible food security. I would class these as dangerous both personally and for society so it's dangerous in more ways than one
Also antibiotic resistance
I'm a firefighter for 24 years and went vegan 9 years ago. In a predominantly "macho" profession,I can tell you that it's been a pain in the ass. Especially so in the beginning. Family style dining at the station is the norm and although I'm willing to cook for them, I mostly don't because there's always "that guy" that won't eat anything but meat or is scared of soy etc. I find it easier to just prepare my meals ahead of time and eat alongside them. I don't get much crap about it anymore since I have gotten them used to the concept and I try my best to not be the stereotypical vegan that everyone likes to joke about. I haven't converted anyone nor have I tried to. However, I think that I have done some good in providing a sane example of how it can be done healthfully and that it's not such an extreme way of eating. Most of them hunt and fish and when I they bring up my veganism they end up agreeing with me that factory farming sucks for the animals. So at least there's that.
Macho? 🤣🤣🤣 cry like a toddler, because i am eating eggs and chicken tonight siss y
@@GarudaLegends 👆🏼 exactly
@@fern9234 do you take supplements or eat fortified food? I loved how you called yourself almost macho, but would probably cry when i tell you this double cheese bacon egg sandwich is deliciousand cant wat to make another one. Cry like a little baby. 🤣🤣. So macho.
All you're doing is sharing with people on the internet the trauma that you experience in your personal life. When you're ready to move to the next stage of your development, you'll find you need to direct your frustrations at whoever this person is who's causing them in the first place; maybe it's your dad or your mom or a bully who you don't feel ready to stand up to yet. It's not the vegans though, and that's why you're stuck in this endless loop that I suspect is getting pretty boring at this point.@@GarudaLegends
@@GarudaLegends You sure are an expert at illustrating the concept of "whiny little bitch". Thank you for advancing the image of veganism through your constant example.
2008? 16 years ago? How dare you ruin my day 😂
I'm a line Cook in Canada. It should be a given that someone is vegan due to a creed. Whenever I prepare vegan/vegetarian meals I grab fresh utensils and cutting boards. Same with if the guest is muslim or Jewish
Former wildland firefighter in the US. I was a firefighter before I was vegan, but worked with a few people who tried to eat mostly vegetarian. On most fires they have a vegetarian option for meals, but sometimes they had to be flexible. A fire can start in a place where the nearest town houses 100 people year round, and within hours there is a thousand firefighters who all need to eat. Arranging for meals can be very challenging on its own in these remote areas, accommodating to every diet would be excessively difficult to coordinate.
Well, yes, I get your point, but ... I think it would be wise to then, as a default, have the "lowest common denominator" ready at all times. Which would be something like Rice&Beans. Basically all creeds/faiths should be fine with that. And, if the situation allows, just add more stuff to this.
Really useful perspective. Not a lawyer, but my understanding is all these accommodation type things come down to "if possible" and wouldn't expect specific dietary fixes for someone in a very fast emergency setting. In those cases the accommodation would probably be "he gets more of the bread" type things.
Very reasonable commentary IMO. It is difficult to determine for me in this case if the employers had a realistic opportunity to provide appropriate meals. It would have helped to know if there were other staff members with diet restrictions and how they were provided for.
The commentary of the judge seems to go past these points of motive and opportunity.
Purely out of interest:
Would you become a firefighter again now that you are vegan, knowing that you can be put in situations as you decribed without access to adequate nutrition?
Yeah it's really hard to prepare rice and beans in some places. Lots of places don't sell those two food items.
@@rasputozenI really struggle to believe this. Beans and rice are some of the most widely available foods across the globe. Even in food deserts, where everything is processed, there are canned beans and pre-packaged rice. All you need is access to a pan and boiling water.
As a Christian vegan, I find it very strange that some of my deeply held moral and philosophical beliefs are protected by law, and some of them aren't.
Having said that, many people just don't understand "ascetic" diets at all. In my local hospitality workers community group, I saw someone complaining about Jainism because they don't eat animal products + garlic and onion, and the hospitality person thought it was a new fad diet named after someone called Jane. People don't understand that Catholics don't eat meat on Fridays and Orthodox Christians eat a basically vegan diet for almost half the days of the year. The idea of "denying yourself" certain foods is very foreign to most modern Westerners.
I'm surprised no one brought in plant-based eating as a religious practice in the court. For Orthodox Christians, there are about 4 4-6 week long fasting periods in a year and they involve plant-based eating (no meat, dairy or eggs). Moreover, some practicioners also hold this fasting on certain days of the week.
I'm from an Orthodox Christian country - no one I know is fasting anymore. Not even the old people.
7th day Adventist and some Asian ones, plus theres general medical reasons to keep food simple
It should be protected. As a Canadian vegan, I had a horrible time when I was hospitalized while pregnant. Was in the hospital for about 2 months on bed rest and omf it was horrible. They had vegan options which was amazing and surprised me honestly. However they would constantly bring me non vegan meals and also argue with me about my dairy allergy (would bring meals smothered in cheese, even though the paper on the tray stating allergies and diet were in bold). The poor nurses called them numerous times about it and it became quite obvious to everyone they sent up wrong things maliciously. I was way to tired and sick to argue with them and just didn't eat the food. Most of the food they brought anyway was fruit or veggies were literally bad. I am so glad I was allowed to have my man bring me what I needed (some hospitals don't allow that). They also wouldn't allow me to opt out of the food, I would have preferred they just stop bringing me food because it mostly just went to waste which i absolutely hated.
Ugh, hospitals are just awful in general at providing food, regardless of diet. My dad was hospitalized multiple times from cancer complications and the food was always devoid of nutrition, and not at all conducive to the healing process. I used to sneak in backpacks full of healthy/tasty snacks for him; like, this guy is already at the lowest point in his life and now you're gonna deny him the simple pleasure of good food?! I'm sorry you had to go through that, glad you're doing better now!
@emmyrose233 I highly agree, for a place that is supposed to provide care, they really suck at food services overall. It feels so shady for them to serve such inedible, non nutritious food. I feel horrible for anyone that has to spend time in hospital for any period of time, but for the people at the end of life that is a truly horrible way to "live" 😣
@emmyrose233 also I'm glad you were able to bring your dad food in those times, that is a wonderful thing to do for anyone in that type of situation ☺️
Mom went in fir diabetes, I had to bring food daily as all they gave her was white rice, sugary juices, angle cake and sad gree teens with questionable meat by product. I had to get her fresh fruit and veggies. Her sugar finally got better after a few days and now new data and medication has helped. That hospital diet kept her blood sugar in the 300s
Coming to New Zealand, I found that they are much more accommodating to vegetarians and Vegans than the US. Almost every restaurant I go to has at least one vegan option that's usually pretty filling. It made me realize that the 'annoying vegans dictating where their friends can eat' is only due to the lack of accommodation.
Same in The Netherlands, even in smaller cities like the one I live in virtually all restaurants have a vegan option on the menu. Not so 5 years ago however, although then there was usually something vegetarian and most chefs could modify it to make it vegan.
From Denmark and it is not so normal with food being served in kindergartens, but this kindergarten had made it a part of the rules to serve food for the children. The parents to the vegan child was willing to pay for the food they served and bring their own food with the child, but it was denied. Glad they won the case 😍💚💚💚. Now we have to fight Århus and Ålborg hospital, because they want to take the vegan option off the menu. Hope we win 🙏
Yes, I think veganism and vegetarianism should be protected beliefs under the law. If government entities (like the people who are in charge of this firefighter's meals, as well as institutions like prisons, public schools, etc.) can provide for kosher and halal needs (as well they should), they can accommodate vegans and vegetarians too.
And I absolutely agree that if atheism makes the cut, veganism/vegetarianism is equally or more in conformity with those criteria.
As long as meat is on the menu and not gross vegan meals.
I agree with this 100% I initially had to go vegetarian because I just couldn’t physically digest meat after a stomach surgery. I don’t know what I would have done if I’d been stuck at work in a rural area, as a support worker that happens a lot with the amount of weather events we get here. Even my lactose intolerance annoyed people 😅
Extremely disrespectful to call faith stupid. You don't have to believe but you don't have to diminish the beliefs of others; some of which enjoy your content.
It was accompanied by a reasonable point that is hard to argue against for why she thought most peoples belief in an organised religion was stupid.
Yeah, that was a bummer to hear. I was 100% with her on the other points -- and then that random comment gets thrown in for no useful reason...Not sure if she gets how regularly she craps on her own viewers. She has never made conservatives or people of faith feel welcome here. (Even though, we stuck around in support long after a mass exodus of leftist vegans years back because of her political beliefs.)
You don’t have to agree with her on everything. This whole channel is based on her criticizing beliefs and ideas, regardless of how it makes people feel. She doesn’t have to preach to the choir or appeal to other vegans if she doesn’t want to in the same way she doesn’t have to appeal to the beliefs of nonvegans. Disrespectful or not, faith is pretty stupid when there are more reliable methods of forming conclusions and beliefs. Faith as an epistemology can be used to justify anything, including the needless exploitation and murder of nonhuman animals. If faith can be used to justify this, it should be criticized and called out.
She shouldn't use the word stupid, but faith is certainly unreasonable and kind of antithetical to the whole point of this channel. Beliefs/religions/creeds are the whole point of this video and she's an atheist so it makes sense that she might criticize faith here. Just like she doesn't have to believe, you don't have to agree with her. I certainly don't agree with all of her political positions, but I manage to enjoy most of her content.
@@thatwasweird954similarly, conservatism is also antithetical to the whole point of this channel. It's an opinion channel. Some of us are ok with diverging opinions (I'm one of the leftist vegans that stuck around). Some aren't and leave.
Yes it should. Like a Vegan being tricked into eating animal products should be a crime. My friend in the hospital was lied to. He asked for Vegan version. They lied to him. And the paper they gave with what the food was, had "Whited out" the word that signified that it wasn't vegan. And you could see it was whited out when you held a flashlight under the paper. So the point is that they didn't take him being Vegan seriously, and thought it was fine to swindle him.
Sue them for million dollars.
Why would they do this? For fun or else?
I'd understand if they argued that it's too difficult to provide vegan options in super extreme situations where they can barely get any food delivered at all due to the fires cutting off supply lines or something. But contaminating the food or cussing him out for his requests is just appalling.
Canadian here, I'm not a Vegan, although I do hope to eventually lower my meat/dairy intake to minimal levels, WTF Ontario!?
They should be supplying him with Vegan food and, yes, it should be protected.
No one has time to deal with a Karen vegan. Eat the food. Firefighters are not vegan and ppl have more important things to do without some Karen complaining about food, when human lives are at risk.
@@GarudaLegendsIf the roles were reversed, and you were an animal in a slaughterhouse who is about to be killed, how comfortable would you be with people having this attitude? How important do you think it would be for others to do something?
@@johnchesterfield9726 i would be ok with it since i am food and live in a world of predators. How about you stop ppl from killing animals for your plants?
@@GarudaLegends Also, it makes sense to be a vegan as a firefighter, since to be a firefighter is to value the lives of innocents who are in danger and in need of our help and protection the most, even at a significant risk to yourself. It is just not consistent with the values of a firefighter to turn your back on innocent lives who need our help the most, and especially since helping them won’t even come with a significant risk to oneself.
@@johnchesterfield9726 you sound silly. You literally kill animals(INSECTS ARE ANIMALS) for your unhealthy vegan meals. You are just not smart, and stuck in a cult mindset.
Great analysis! I was wondering, could you say you are of the Jainism religion, if a hospital or school doesn't want to give you vegan food?
I think that’s the best idea at least until things change.
Yes, I am going to try to find out if the hospitals in The Netherlands cater for Jains (vegan). I am afraid to end up in a hospital and not get vegan food. If they don't cater vegan, I think I will buy smoked tofu, and ask the nurses to save it in a fridge or something...? I can eat that cold, I don't mind, as long as I don't have to eat cheese and dairy.
I am a vegan Firefighter for a large city in Texas. The food aspect isn't really relevant to my situation because we buy our own food on shift (90% of the time I just fast on duty) HOWEVER some of the gear we are issued is made from leather (boots gloves etc.). My department won't buy vegan alternatives for me. If I were to buy it on my own, and then got hurt or killed on the job I would likely be denied workers comp or any benefits for my family if it was found that I was not wearing the specific protective gear that I was issued.
(1) My experience is that everyone who says they would bend over backwards for allergies but not veganism does not actually bend over backwards for allergies (source: me butting heads with a teen homeless shelter meal planner, who used this line and yet tried to feed kids things they were allergic to)
(2) Gonna put in my vote for "sentientism" as a comprehensive belief system!
Since nontheistic religions are a thing. Maybe some sort of god optional vegan religion needs to exist just for situations like this. If you had an organization that people could join then you say "I belong to the temple of sentiantism" or whatever. If you are part of an org like that, it might carry more weight. But we shouldn't have to join a religion to have veganism respected.
You will be harmed by eating food you are allergic to. You are not harmed by eating animal products. This is a false equivalence.
For some reason I read "sentientism" as "antisemitism" and I was so confused
@@emmyrose233 oh no definitely not supporting that
Yeah, this also causes problems because vegans might use things that were processed in a factory with allergens and I see comments on vegan restaurants by people with allergies saying that the food obviously wasn't vegan and stuff. People with allergies shouldn't go to vegan places and expect them to be better about allergies. It's easier to accommodate most vegans because like 60-80% of all food is vegan and many vegans don't care that much about cross-contamination. It's mainly about making sure all the ingredients that contribute to the price of the food aren't animal products. Ideally, I'd purchase everything from completely vegan companies, but practically that is harder to achieve.
It should be protected. I am an observant Jew and kosher ethical vegetarian. So I could use Judaism to argue for vegetarianism and even vegetarianism because in the book of Genesis G*d says that we are supposed to eat plants. Regardless of the intent, the kosher prohibitions on mixing meat and dairy make it more of a pain in the ass to eat meat. You have to have separate kitchen stuff for meat and dairy. Two sets of cutting boards, knives, kitchen utensils, pots, pans, plates, flatware etc. The dumb thing is that I am an atheist. So I of course don't believe that G*d told us to eat plants. But just practicing an established religion might be enough to not be served meat. I shouldn't have to follow any religion to have my ethical dietary, clothing ETC choices not be subject to discrimination.
Yes G*d optional Judaism is a thing. Judaism places more emphasis on what you do than what you believe. There are atheist flavors of Judaism like Reconstructionist Judaism and Humanistic Judaism. There are atheist Rabbis.
Wait this is so interesting to me. What's the point of following the rules? Which rules do you follow? Who do you think the rules came from and why are they worth listening to? (Asked with complete respect and curiosity)
In the United States if you’re in jail and vegan they’re required to provide it. But beyond that there isn’t any protection by any company or publicly funded institutions
They didn't even give me my medicine, and the vegan food was like 3 pieces of white bread. In practice they don't care
@@ereviscale3966 yes
Thank you for covering this case. Your analysis was very well done. As a vegan Canadian lawyer, I will be following his judicial review to see if the courts have a different take.
Hey, Canadian here. I followed the case and thought it was all kinds of bull, but I wasn't surprised at all because it's Ontario. Ontario is a very conservative province in Canada. We joke that Ontario is trying to go Republican.
Just quoted this to a friend from Calgary. Expecting him to die laughing.
@indef2def It's funny because it's true, lol. I live in the NS now but lived in Ontario for 6 years, so I got to experience it first hand.
@@marzettik Is it possible that less-leftist suburbanites are just more vocal because the contrast with Toronto is so salient to them? Or do they really show higher measures of conservative beliefs and behaviors than people in the central provinces?
@@indef2def I suppose it's hard to say, but there have been some pretty powerful idiots that have come out of Ontario. I feel like people who run for political office have different kinds of brains compared to us common people. Never truly understand what is going on in their heads.
He should have had you on his legal team! I’m surprised that they didn’t bring up atheism etc to support his case. I guess this is a lesson. Let your employer know that your an ethical vegan, and what that means to you as a creed, and a belief system. Great video. Thanks for all the research.🌱🌱
You know you can use a ruler with the snip tool to highlight. Please 😅 haven't seen any of your videos for a long time. Maybe youtube algorithm. Continue your great content.
I missed that extra part at the end in the previous recent videos 😛😹💚
As an ethical vegan in Canada, I watched with horror the treatment of this Canadian firefighter by the Ontario government. It has been a constant battle to have my vegan beliefs and understanding protected with Ontario public institutions (particularly my employer, the school board in my region). Events which were it was supposed to be celebratory of work for the board meant boxed pasta noodles with tomato sauce and shitty comments from coworkers while being surrounded by people consuming animal products less than a half an arms length away. Complaints to union reps did little until more recently. People who aren't vegan can mock you up and down, but god forbid we address the ethics of their 'choice!' Would you ever consider addressing AG GAG laws? Bill 156 (now an act) came into affect on June 17, 2020. Seasoned animal justice activist, Regan Russell was killed two days later from an aggressive act of a truck driver for the industry. Those who came to support fellow activists that day were shocked and devastated. What followed over the next few months were more acts of aggression towards protesters who bore witness to the incredible suffering of pigs entering the slaughterhouse , Fearman's in Burlington, Ontario. You should interview them and the absolutely insane charges laid against them 'from someone higher up.'
Your views on religion are so reassuring to me as a former christian, now atheist vegan. I always love hearing your perspective and how straightforward you are.
Wow, this is really shitty. Shame on that judge. Also, yeah in Europe it's common that you can't bring your own food to schools. If you have a medical reason, they will accomodate, but not for vegetarians or vegans. And children are fed hot dogs, salami bacon, cheese... 🙄
The most frustrating part for me is that he’s is literally putting his life on the line, it was an evacuated area! And he gets this treatment. As you said, it shouldn’t be that hard to get him rice and beans or something else :(
Remember when you bullied a vegan woman who was dying of cancer? The Internet does. RIP Jennifer Faulisi.
As a Swede, I would guess Denmark is similar in the way their schools provide free lunch thus don't bring your own.
The single black bean thing is sketchy. How would someone get a single black bean? Find it on the floor. I agree with you but the way
It should be protected. My job is nowhere near as vital or dangerous as firefighting, but I too have found it extremely difficult to find anything to eat at hotels, conferences, offices, etc. Nobody knows what vegan food is/isn't a lot of the time, which is so bizarre to me in 2024. Having one vegan reasonable option for your employees at business functions does not sound all that demanding. And the alternative is letting them go hungry, which is crap.
Great video! Love to stay informed on how this case is rules on different countries
The firefighter should have at least been told "You will not be accommodated", so he would know in advance that he would need to bring in his own food, instead of having to deal with bullshit.
my veganism is a deeply held personal belief system that i cannot change. "toughen up and eat animals" is never easy to hear, especially from supposedly progressive people/institutions. sad to see this.
I live in Ontario...I was heartbroken about this case...How can it be so difficult to accommodate, and how can it not be a creed...made me so sad and angry at the same time. So unfortunate but I do understand the mentality being I grew up in rural Ontario my entire life...Where crops are grown for feed and farms raise animals for food... It's just so wrong especially for someone who has been doing so much to help, protect, and save others. Completely disgraceful!!!
I am not a vegan, truthfully I am just short of a carnivore (most plants really mess with my GI tract, I’m allergic to most them to boot, AND I have texture and taste issues from my autism - it’s not from lack of trying but it wasn’t worth the thousands in medical bills and damage to my intestines. I will be the first one to point out I am a a medical nightmare and this is going to be a RARE situation and this was discovered after a lot of pain and many medical tests. It is NOT HEALTHY, it is not environmentally friendly, no one should be eating like this the majority of the time).
I AM fully supportive of those who are vegan and will happily fight for it to be protected. Dietary preference usually just means hey I’m not going to put you in the hospital with accidental cross contamination. You still have to do your best to NOT cross contaminated especially when that cross contamination involves raw animal products. That chef should have their food license revoked it sounds like they broke rule one of a food handlers license do not cross contaminate.
Based on what was said, I think that Chef was probably very hostile towards vegans. Could be wrong but I think it would be near impossible to think it's ok to touch a vegan burger with bloody hands from animal meat.
It sounds like you’re just mentally ill and putting yourself above animals.. but I can’t say I expect more from a “near carnivore”
@@jess7722a chef dont owe vegans anything. Veganism is not a dietary need, but a Karen way of eating.
Just to clarify the last sentence of your first paragraph (beginning, "It is NOT HEALTHY, ...") You were referring to your individual situation, right?
@@hannahmitchell87 dont bother. That person is clearly lying.
It would be interesting to see what sort of support this firefighter had from his own peers. A group of people whose job fundamentally requires a high level of solidarity and selflessness would surely band together to protect their colleague's right to a decent meal, even if they didnt share the same beliefs themselves.
I'm typing this only 30 seconds in now so idk if this will be covered, but I'm curious of the decision would change if it was for religious reasons
I wish we could just say: "Animal products are immoral. Don't include them in anyone's dish, regardless of that person's beliefs."
That takes the majority of Society to come to the same conclusion in order for such words to carry such weight. Years ago, it was radical to say that Black People are people who deserve the same rights as others.
Sounds perposterious that was even a radical thing to sag but alas, it was.
Same thing with spanking kids. It only now in the West is it *becoming* mainstream to say "Don't hit your kids -yes, spanking is hitting".
Emphasis on "becoming" mainstream. It STILL is largely taboo to say "don't spank your kids" -but becoming less taboo to say that.
colonialism is immoral. all descendants of colonialists should return to their homelands. those who refuse to do so are doubly immoral.
@@v.a.n.e. You're gonna have to slice me in pieces though then cuz I am from England, Denmark, German, and God knows where else.😅
However, I (American) have been thinking a lot about this as I reconnect with my heritages and notice that as far as cultural identity, I don't belong anywhere.
And that's not just for the colonizing heritages. I hear this among all groups of people who grow up in America and have this lack of identity to their heritage. Either decide you are hella Patriotic and 'Merican or...feel out of place as you uncover the culture of your ancestors.
That's the trauma of being American (non-indigenous) at least, I am not native and therefore definitely out of my league commenting on indigenous identity).
We (non-indigenous) are largely separated from our heritages while living in a country that honestly, is a baby compared to the ages of other countries. Non-indigenous Americans have only have like what? 6-7 generations of people? We are a very young country and trying desperately like teenagers, to figure out who the hell we are.
Should we all go back? No. I am currently visiting another colonized nation in Europe and all the indigenous I talk to here (and those in the USA) all say "Land Back doesn't mean, You Out." I get the general message from them: Don't be a dick.
@@treefrog101 at one point, it sounded like your esteemed mother had a very promiscuous past, but then I realized you were actually talking about your genetic makeup-most of which is from another continent. I understand what you want to say; you don't feel any other country as home, because you made someone else's home your home, so there is no room for nostalgia.
however, I don't think you understood the point of my comment, although I admit that it is more my omission; I could have added more contests to make it clearer. my comment was intended to highlight the hypocrisy of those who argue for animal rights while entirely ignoring and dismissing the rights of those whose homes have been forcibly taken and in which they feel so comfortable and cozy now.
If we actually want to be so moral, perhaps we should remember to right the injustice? what is the point of insisting on others' morality if we aren't nurturing it ourselves? you appear to be a pleasant and understating person; please do not take any of this personally. this is merely a thought experiment.
@@v.a.n.e. I don't understand the comparison. animal rights: something virtually anybody in the West could take part in right now, for instance by going vegan. Undoing colonialism: not something anybody could just "do". Going back to Europe is not going to fix anything.
I wonder if language is to blame a bit. I am puzzled by the use of creed - I think it may have been a way of avoiding the word faith which is overtly religious. But creed as far as I know is a profession of faith, so retains the faith bit.... and thusly the arbitrator? judge? got stuck on that. But as UV said, their decision was still incompatible with precedent. If you think of all the protected examples UV gave as "beliefs", you're fine - and that would cover faiths, atheism, veganism equally and easily...
The case from Denmark: it is generally not normal to ban students from bringing their own lunch, but in some schools they want to erase class problems between kids. So the school makes the lunch for the kids so that the they don't have to struggle with the fear or shame of having no lunch or a "bad lunch" with them to school.
This is such an important topic. Thank you for this video! 🙏
If it wasn't his deeply held belief and just a dietary choice, he would just eat whatever they gave him instead of starving himself.
Why would an articulated belief about a deity be required for a creed? If they're accommodating halal but not vegan, what they're saying is that "I don't eat pork because I believe it's wrong" isn't enough--you have to say "I don't eat pork because I worship a deity who forbids it and I don't want to be punished." Having said that...I don't know that I want to see veganism become a "protected class" because I think protected classes have gotten out of hand, but a common sense ruling would be "You know humans can't perform at their best physically without protein, and you know that this guy in particular hasn't eaten meat in 16 years. He can't fight fire for 16 hours with no protein. If he eats meat after this long, he's going to spend 16 hours on the toilet. Maybe just get the man some beans." Sometimes I wish judges could find people guilty of being a dumbass and sentence them to...not being a dumbass.
Speaking of veganism and spirituality… I would love if you went to see/reviewed/debunked Christspiracy (the new Kip Anderson movie). It’s in theaters March 20th and 24th!!
100% agree! Thanks for sharing this!
In the Israeli army (IDF), any base has to provide vegan alternatives in every meal. Also, vegan soldiers can get B12 supplements from the army, and receive a vegan beret (the normal beret is made from wool). Because the IDF kitchen must also remain kosher (and not mix any sort of meat with anything dairy), a lot of usually-dairy products are pareve instead (most common when a kitchen wants to serve desert after a meal that had meat).
Hard to imagine how an atheist could require accomodation based on their creed. Atheism doesn't say that you, for example, ought not go to church, ought not pray to God, ought not swear by God, or ought not follow Christian morality. It would make more sense for Secular Humanism to be a creed, but even that probably doesn't have many cases where discrimination could be stopped by accomodating it
Well, it's just that atheists don't believe in god so being forced to pretend that they do in public is alienating and seems in some cases like it's anti-free speech. Accommodation would just mean allowing for alternatives like swearing on your honor, not praying, not going to church, etc. For the most part, there are few public instances where people are forced to do these things. I still go to church once a year with family around Christmas, but I don't mind because it's my choice to do that.
I agree with you that veganism should be a protected creed. I had no idea that atheism was. I was confused, though, granted I do have trouble processing a large amount of information sometimes, but if Ontario recognizes veganism as a creed, then doesn’t that mean that the judge should have ruled in the firefighters favor? I might have misunderstood some thing there. Also, I would like to put out a reminder that you can have your beliefs about religion, but please don’t insult it or those who believe in it. Lots of people come to religion later on in life, rather than being raised in it from the beginning. I think as long as you don’t practice problematic aspects of a religion, then it is fine to believe in a greater power.
I worked in a supermarket and was SOOOOOOOO disgusted when I had to handle meat. Especially since it was usually badly packed and I'd regularly get blood on my hands. But no, I never considered suing the company.
The atheist example makes it plain as day that a creed need not meet all those requirements. That judge is clearly biased in favor of religiosity to insist that the question of a creator must be addressed for a person to have a belief system about anything else. I hope this hero wins his appeal and is treated with the respect he deserves.
Good coverage, Unnatural Vegan! 😀
Just came around to this video (my watch later list is ridiculous) and my thoughts immediately went to atheism.
I mean, come on! I'm a vegan and atheist, my atheism doesn't influence *anything* I do on a day to day basis. It's not a belief system.
My veganism is what truly altered my life, and continues to, like you said, be a daily practice. Smh. That Ontario ruling is hella weird.
I’ve argued on many a vegan channel that veganism is a belief system and should be viewed as a sort of religion legally and somewhat philosophically. I’ve gotten shouted down and almost kicked off of many a vegan subreddit because religion is often seen as so noxious that they want no such perspective. So. I kind of think vegans don’t even want this-unfortunately. I feel for him. But if the community does not want to be viewed that way I’m not really sure he has an argument to make. Just a couple of less than ideal choices.
I do personally think it should be a protected belief, and I’m happy with the use of the word creed instead of religion-but honestly there are religions that do not require belief in a deity. Buddhism for one does not require it, though it does believe in a higher plane of existence. Honestly I think that’s how compassion should be viewed. But the community HAS to stop fighting any relationship to religions or a belief system. The reasoning I’ve been given is that it prevents it from being just universally accepted morality and law. *sigh*. In a game of all or nothing, it will be nothing.
Veganism should be protected like a religion! As a Christian vegan, veganism is absolutely linked to my faith. There is an entire Christian Vegan community. ☺️
In 1990 i went through Air Force basic training with no vegan provisions and we inly had 5 minutes to eat per meal. I li ed on pears and whatever was there like rice or oatmeal or cooked veggies. Ivlost 10 pounds the first week and kept getting thinner. I was 90 pounds and my uniform falling off the only way i got enough calories was my family sent me vegan energy bars or cookies daily and i was given 5 minites to eat that! Lol i stayed at 90 pounds and was fine. Now the military has full vegan options...and they get more time to eat. They girls who ate the meat and junk were actually getting fatter by the way....they looked worsw and they were all constipated!
I mean if some work place or school usually provides people with food and someone has filled out paperwork stating their dietary restriction... I think it is reasonable to provide them with adequate food.
Im not even vegan and I would be super mad if someone started handling my food with animal bloody hands.
He did not have blood on his hand. He was talking about bloody as the Curse word. Vegans like to lie.
14:47 as a person who has started and finished primary school in Denmark and lived here for 10 years, not allowing a child to bring their own lunch box is the most bats**t insane and schocking thing ive heard, ESPECIALLY for a vegan, because in many schools and gymnasiums (those are high schools basically) offer very few if any vegan options, not to mention that some schools like the ones i went to don't have a cafeteria.
As ethical vegans -our lifestyle is strongly impacted by our belief in not causing harm. We make sure our actions align with our belief in Veganism. ❤💓 Veganism deserves to be a protected belief & creed 🌱. We do promote compassion and live our creed in every choice we make. Thank you for this video!
And after watching the rest: an *excellent* vid Swayze; however, I am shocked that you could support that monster's horrible position even for a second...
Who?
@@hannahmitchell87 that carnist "judge" creature.
I was fired from a job at natural
Foods store after I was moved department as a result of a conflict w the manager in produce. When I told them that I was unable to handle meat and dairy due to my religious views (I’m Hindu), their solution was to fire me. Yes, there should be protections and I need to speak to an employment law attorney.
why did you find work in a food store that has meat? This is not logical, nor ethical to your beliefs.
The spiritual vegans can be a nightmare: some of them become “spiritual” omnivores or even carnivores because the basis of their veganism can be so whacky.
As a Buddhist, many many many of us are vegetarian and vegan. I suppose the workaround this discrimination is to claim to be of a religious faith or Spiritual practice and attribute that to diet. It shouldn't have to be that way, to be honest. Also, I have genetic mutations that make me unable to properly digest red meat, most processed meats, and lactose. Some people are vegan and also have medical reasons for following a plantbased diet. Vegans should be a protected class.
I feel like veganism being a protected belief might make people take it more seriously as an ethical philosophy and not just a diet fad. On the other hand I worry that it would cause some people to view it as a sort of "religion" and allow them to internally right it off as someone else's "personal choice" rather than something that's based on avoiding real harm that everyone should be taking seriously. Overall though I think it would be a good thing for the sake of making vegans' lives easier.
I think the solution is just to start "The Church of Veganism" so they can't say it isn't a creed
😂
They should not be required to require to provide him with vegan options but it sounds like they were at some point then stopped without warning. And the fact that he had not options outside of the company supplies food lean up into a contract violation issue but not a discrimination issue.
As a full meat eater with no allergies, if you're asking me a questionaire and theres no reason other than laziness to not have proper meal options, its cruellty on the part of the employer and is bullying. And lets be real, if all they had was spinich left they were not feeding them right at all. Pizza, burgers and chicken tenders (what they like offer here in the states) is not a diet for anyone to follow. Than they complain why they cant find dedicated people for the jobs. Bloody hands on burgers is contamination.... ive skipped public meals or only eat plain salad simple for not trusting how food was made , too much what ever or not really understand how its made... only to hear some not feeling well. We should have the right to proper food after all that
You want people to have understanding, compassion and want justice for a man with deeply held beliefs but you say most religions are stupid. That's not compassionate or understanding.
Let’s just be honest here, we got alot of people in this world that go out of their way to be disrespectful, especially when they disagree with your lifestyle, grabbing his vegan burger with bloody hands is not only intentionally disregarding his diet u are also not following food safety guidelines in general, just being a AHole just because u disagree with it, I’ve even seen working in fast food workers take salted fries n throw them back in oil to “remove the salt”💀 all because they don’t get why u ordering fast food fries if u can’t eat salt, or talking about anyone that ask for less mayo or half a burger, or Diet Coke, saying you already fat n garbage, people are rude, disrespectful, disregarding and also lazy!., if u are on a special diet or avoid certain foods for health, allergies or religious purposes please bring n make own food guys, only way u can ensure nobody mess with your food or disregard your diet.
Up until she included “creator” or “higher power” as a requirement for the judges verdict, I could accept how she arrived at her judgement. As interpreted within the scope of the law. Then she inserted what I hazard to guess is her subjective opinion 😢 . Ethical standing should be valued if accommodations are being made!
The distinction between creed and preference is strange. I’m Catholic almost in name only. Yet my religious beliefs would be protected. My culturally Jewish friends abstain from pork but none of them keep truly kosher. They’re culturally Jewish. But beliefs that might as well be “lifestyle preferences” that are associated with religion are protected. Why should veganism be different?
So how is this any different than someone having religious based dietary restrictions? I know you talked about it in the video but I just don’t see how they can claim one is different than the other? They really need to have all or nothing. Protect no one and no one‘s belief system or protect everyone and everyone’s belief system. Either everyone’s entitled to having their beliefs respected or no one is.
Can you imagine if a carnivore demanded the same thing? Asking to be fed only meat, because that's what humans have been eating for all of history and they're simply following history. Or even worse, god forbid they ask for only grass fed, pasture raised animals, because they care about the well being of their food. The hoops people would have to go through just to get the food, much less accept the ideology.
I suspect if he'd attributed his veganism to part of a recognised creed, it might have been accommodated.
Also, vegan firefighters 😍 damn that's attractive
I don’t think vegan should necessarily be a protected belief per se, but vegan/plant-based option are often friendly to a number of medical dietary needs, so they should be readily offered
I need to tell my employer here in BC that I'm Vegan and to start to document each time I'm discriminated for my lifestyle choice. Thank you.
That is beside the point but where did they find a single bean? Why were there no others? Beans don't usually come in singles. It seems to be like doing this on purpose.
Its not over demanding to not want your vegan food to be cooked separated away from non vegan foods.
That 3rd criterion describes a religious faith. Isn't that a separate protected class from Creed?
the UK, or at least London, is heaven for vegans. when I gave birth there I received a massive menu list to select dietary preferences, including vegan and I ate the best vegan shephard's pie in my life. IN A HOSPITAL!
6:40 this is such a Western mentality. If you take Shinto, or Hinduism for example, you don't have a set of beliefs in a Creator that everyone is required to hold. Shinto has kami, but to think of them as gods can be deceptive and inaccurate depending on who you talk to. Hinduism includes traditions of atheism among other things. Also, I imagine there are a number of secular Jews who don't eat pork
I don’t think it should. Discriminating against belief systems shouldn’t be a crime. That would undermine free speech.
How is atheism a creed, which is literally just one singular belief of 'there is no god', and veganism, a intricate system of multiple beliefs that alters your life in a major way, is not. That is not sound at all
If you can't cater to a specific dietary requirement, grant an allowance of equivalence cost and let the person figure it out themselves. Boom problem solved.
Wild that animal agriculture contributes to climate change and therefore forest fires, and a person fighting that on multiple fronts gets this treatment.
The problem here is the governement. Any decent private employer would have accomodate his employee to keep him. It should not be a law it's just common sense, if an employer doesnt respect he or she doesnt deserve you working for them. In that specific case where food is supplied by employer because of remote access it should have been considered and planned before any remote work. This story is terrible. I do work on the road but worst case i can bring my lunch and get paid daily per diem or go to a grocery to get some not so fancy lunch sometime.
9:49 I agree.
That being said, all religions and creeds should be responsible for actions that harm others.
I think Canada has less of an issue with this than the USA, but ..
We've outlawed animal sacrifice from many religions, as we should.
& If some extreme version of fruitarian veganism is causing infants to die or something, then that's an extremist cult.
Like, the science needs to be in one hand and the spiritual in another hand. Ethics should guide ones life, but fundamentalism should be a step too far.
In Germany it is protected as well
I really appreciate hearing your thoughts but am now slightly sadder this is the conclusion for now
Also the danish school not allowing to take outside food, we have something like that in at least some other European countries and my assumption is that it's because they want to be sure you don't bring contaminated food and blame it on them because you get escherichia coli or something
As an atheist and vegan this is bittersweet. I am happy to see veganism disentangled from "spirituality" but this still seems like an unfair, cherry-picked application of criteria against recognizing veganism as a creed.
Very interesting!
Great Video!