Sandra Tanner on 1st Vision, Books of Mormon, Abraham, Mark Hofmann - Mormon Stories Ep. 473
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- Опубліковано 22 тра 2014
- In part 2 of our interview with Sandra Tanner, Sandra discusses challenges that she and her late husband had with Joseph Smith's First Vision, the Book of Mormon, the Book of Abraham, along with her interactions with Joseph Fielding Smith, Legrand Richard, and famous Mormon forger and murderer Mark Hofmann.
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Timecodes:
00:18 Going from 'mom & pop' to a household name
03:00 Writing Joseph Fielding Smith
05:43 Question to J.F. Smith
08:44 Getting his answer
12:38 Meeting LeGrand Richards
20:46 Being able to see the document and getting a threatening letter
25:07 How did Smith come up with the BoM?
27:47 BoM placed in its time and critique
38:28 Getting back to the Tanner story
43:50 Church announces having the papyri and publishes them
46:17 Early 1900 Egyptologists already knew BoA was fake
47:13 Tanners published Smiths alphabet and grammar
48:20 Mark Hoffman case
50:24 Mark reads Tanners book and is mad at the church
52:23 Salamander letter by Martin Harris
54:49 Thinking it isn't real. Trying to find out the truth
59:44 Publishing their point of view that it's fake
1:00:25 Mark Hoffman visits Sandra
1:04:07 Sandra tells Jerald about Mark’s visit
1:05:52 Bombs starting going off
1:08:22 Mark Hoffman tells the church he has the McLellin collection
1:10:35 Church want Steve Christianson to check, and Mark kills him
1:12:00 Mark kills Kathy Sheets
1:12:35 Third bomb
1:18:00 Tanners become news. People recognize now they were calling Mark out
1:20:00 Conclusion
#LDS #Mormon #PostMormon #ExMormon #MormonStories
How's this for conditioning? I left in 2008 and have listened and read all kinds of things, including while I was still in. Yet I've passed up this video again and again thinking that she was going to be a mean, bitter woman. Sheesh. So knowledgeable, so charming. It hurts to know how deep the conditioning runs.
Right?! I was always told what an angry bitter apostate she is. I don’t detect bitterness in her at all lol. Maybe she went though a bitter phase, but it’s long gone.
"I stand all amazed" at how stirred I am by hearing "Come, Come ...." Just now realized that the HEART of these hymns is pure & the love is real. How it came to pass that I never heard tell of the Tanners or if ANY questions re the church until 2017 or so. And they were it it since 1964!? If I had heard, I would have sought it out, but, again, how would that have been done? I do recall asking questions of seniors in 1993-94; answer was always "It will all be explained WHEN YOU GO TO THE TEMPLE.". Wish I had learned of these courageous, persistent THINKERS waaaayy sooner. But it took what it took to get here - all of us - and here we are. Kills me how "IN" I was. Even stopped drinking coffee. My brother kept telling me that didn't matter & I could not figure out how he could even dare tell me that; HE TAUGHT SEMINARY classes at UCLA! By June '94, following earthquake, we came to Az. After first visit to church, I came home & had my coffee!! Thank you SOOOO much Mr & Mrs Tanner. And Shawn Mc. And you, John, for all the BURIED TREASURE to which you have given a wide open display. Again. And again. Even when things keep breaking 😂😂🤣
I could listen to Sandra all day.
So true.
Agreed, she's fun to listen to. Knows her stuff
really cool grandma
He
@@ilikeitabc sometimes I do.
I'm just watching this in 2023. Sandra is great. I love her personality and slight sarcasm. She is so knowledgeable. I have learned so much from her.
John, I am so thankful you were able to get Sandra on film. You have had many significant interviews over the years, but this may be the most significant of them all. Sandra doesn't look quite her normal self and seems to have a cough, but I am so glad she granted you the interview. She is such a precious woman, so gentle and generous, so honest and principled. She would be the first to admit she is a sinner, but she is so dignified. Thank you for capturing this for posterity. The Tanners have been vilified for too long.
Sandra Tanner is a very intelligent woman who knows what she is speaking about. She is so well informed about the LDS church and their history. Kudos to her!!
She is bright
Sandra Tanner is full of knowledge. She is a gift to us all. She is well spoken and kind. I have learned so much from her. I am a Christian and know some LDS members.
Sandra is a hero!
It’s like listening to a movie! This needs to be a movie! It’s surreal!!!
Sandra is great...I visited the book store a few years back. She is so kind and spent a few hours taking to me. Plus, she is sharp as a tack...a walking encyclopedia of all things Mormonism.
At 48:15: We were first introduced to the Mormon missionaries in early 1972. NOTHING was ever said to us about the controversies about the Book of Abraham, nor about the 'rock in the hat' method of transcribing the Book of Mormon. We were warned not to read/listen to anything that was not approved by the Mormon church, and we faithfully followed that instruction. Looking back, it is hard to believe how naive and gullible we were. Or how cult-like the Mormon church's misrepresentations truly are.. It is such a relief to be out of it.
Thanks for referencing the Tanners in one of your current podcasts. These are great interviews and you expertly interview Sandra. She is a delightful/refreshing sincere woman. How grateful we should all be that you have archived these interviews for posterity.
They should make a movie about the Tanners - VERY interesting lives!
Great idea.
I bet it would be wildly popular.
Jane Berghaus l
A netflix mini-series of Mark Hoffman (Waco director would be great)
It’s interesting how much more intellectually honest we can be when we stop defining ourselves by our doctrinal beliefs, heritage, etc. We can start to recognize bias and strive to deal with it. Of course we will always have bias one way or another but it certainly is easier to recognize and work on.
Thank you Tanners!
So true! Imagine the thousands of hours of research they committed to.
@Richard Holmes You're going to have to be specific. It's like me saying that Mormon apologist are liars.
+Kent Thalman ... Richard Holmes can never bring a sensible debate to these forums. It's all ad hominem attacks like most of the self appointed Mormon apologists on YT.
He'll dump and run like he always does.
And you will never get any proper point of view from him. Which is a common thing with Mormons, they know they have nothing to back themselves up with except to say they've read Moroni 4 : 10 , and had a good "feeling".
(13:12) "So she (her Mom) was opposed to me leaving the Church. 'That's okay not to believe it; a lot of us don't believe it. But, you don't leave.' And I said, Mom, it's not true. I would feel dishonest before God to stay supporting something if I didn't really believe it."
That's exactly why I left, as well. It's called personal integrity.
So thankful to the Tanners, most especially their sadly now-OOP omnibus publication: "The Changing World of Mormonism" that addresses strictly by the verifiable documented evidences (and I studiously and independently found and examined each and every one) almost all the Church's lies and frauds.
It takes an incredible amount of personal integrity and fortitude to come to the truth ... it's hard to admit that you were wrong and that you allowed yourself to be deceived ... it's even more painful to admit that you based your entire life on liies ... :(
Despite what many dishonest apologists think, it would be FAR easier to just stay than to leave ... especially here behind the Zion Curtain when all your family, friends, co-workers, and most of the people you know are all LDS ... leaving our cullt is a huge step that takes courage.
Like you have done, I have done exhaustive research about our history and doctrine myself ... not a single one of our cullt's "truth claims" is actually true ... not one ... I have never even read the "CES Letter". I stuck with primary sources. None other than Joseph Smith himself was the biggest "Anti-Mormon" to ever live ...
That's the choice we face ... is it worth living a liie? Or do we stand up for the truth, no matter the cost?
Great work John and Sandra.
I've been a fan of Jerald and Sandra Tanner for a LONG time.
Very exciting to hear about Mark Hoffman no many other stories. She seems like such a nice, sharp and intelligent woman.
A wonderful speaker. Go Sandra!
Her memory is unbelievable!
She's still sharp as a tack!
Thank God for the Truth seeking Tanners
The way she tells her story is utterly compelling
Rewatching in 2021 - still relevant.
Rewatching in 2023 - still relevant!
I too could listen to her all day.
BarbaraJoanne
Yes, she is a very skilled speaker, friendly and charismatic. She's a professional.
And this is how she makes her living, instead of getting a real job like the rest of us.
Mormons are frauds
2 Corinthians 11:3-4Expanded Bible (EXB)
3 But I am afraid that your minds will be ·led away [or corrupted] from your ·true [sincere] and pure following of Christ just as Eve was ·tricked [deceived] by the ·snake [serpent] with his ·evil ways [cunning; craftiness; Gen. 3:1-6]. 4 You ·are very patient with [willingly put up with; gladly tolerate] anyone who comes to you and preaches a different Jesus from the one we preached. You are very willing to accept a spirit that is different from the Spirit you received, or a gospel that is different from the one you ·accepted [or received from us].
+cdowis Truth is truth. Employment really isn't the issue. I remember them from the 70s, when I was quite afraid of them. They were of the devil. Only, see, she's still at work at least 45 years later. I praise her now.
Awurabena1
" or a gospel that is different from the one you ·accepted [or received from us]."
The historic Christian church has replaced the prophets and apostles with theologians and philosophers. The Nicene Doctrine of the "one substance entity" is a different gospel than taught in the Bible, and the gospel taught by the apostles was lost to the world.
The Lord called a prophet in our day to restore His gospel, and the church now has a foundation of apostles and prophets who teach those things that Christ taught.
Interesting assertion. For those who would like to see how well LDS doctrines stand the test of time, read "This is my Doctrine," written by BYU professor Charles Harrell. The answer puts a major hole in TBM's theory of the restoration.
Sandra is a true rock star in her journey out of Mormonism 🖤🖤🖤
She is correct. My sister had 2 men from the church visit her & they wanted a monthly donation. Her husband was not a member so she told them she would need to talk to him. My sister was expecting her 3rd child. She then received a letter asking her to meet with them on such & such a date. On that date she was delivering a premature baby (her second baby was stillborn) so there was some family dismay. At any rate my sister missed the meeting & was shortly excommunicated. I was 7 years old & was unaware of these happenings until 2003. I didn't really believe my sister, but our Mother remembered the entire incident. Our family walked here in 1850 & I think my Mom thought the church was better than all that.
Yeah sandra.. Keep up your good work!
Richard Holmes Please give at least one detail.
Sunny Applegate you ask too much........
@Richard Holmes - Sarah asks you for detail and you respond with a load of non-specific BS. Do you really think you look credible?
Anti-Mormon, what a joke, Mormonism is Anit-Christ. To change the description of God in Isaiah and what Jesus said about Himself. Absolute blasphemy, the BOM is full of lies from things that didn't exist to no original texts, a fake language all from a dreamer which Duet. 13 explains. Funny how the Bible, unchanged, has all the answers for all these fake religions. Too bad people believe these lies and are mislead. Jesus and Paul warn us again and again in the NT about false prophets, like JS Jr, E G Wells, Charles T. Allen. Just seeing how the stooges were led astray by the Mark Hoffman case is proof positive alone, they have no prophets in the LDS religions.
@@richardholmes7199 You're such a douche.
Pray that my daughter, LJW, and family will have the blinders removed.
Just prayed
🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏
Richards 'I never smoked' spoken like a true self righteous Pharisee.
She sounds like one very smart and sharp lady.
Loved the South Park references (35:38 - 36:11) ... John: "Smart, smart, smart, smart .... dumb, dumb, dumb, dumb" LOL
Every Mormon should watch this........
Was Joseph Smith the L. Ron Hubbard of his century? The stories about the early church & changing doctrine are so similar to the early history of dyanetics to scientology.
The Tanners are why I left LDS for Church of Christ (Temple Lot)
try the all new book of Mormon Read Challenge? Read the original book side by side with the current one. and count all of the changes and mistakes. how many can you find? 10,000? 20,000? 30,000?
Great video.
This is interesting. The Book of Abraham pictures were taken on b&w 35mm film. The film was taken to BYU photography studio in the basement of the Earnest L Wilkinson Center in 1967. I developed the film and returned it to the studio head. I asked what it was and if they wanted prints. I was told not to cut the film and not to make prints. It was probably first used for projection. The pictures were printed later. While working for the SLCo Sheriff's Office, I was assigned to watch Hofmann's house. This brings back memories long in the back of my mind.
You sound super cool Stephen.
Growing up in southern California in the 60s and 70s all you knew was the Mormon church, in that time there where as many Mormons there as in Utah, everyone I there where Mormon and if you ever did anything wrong you didn't only answer too your parent you answered too the church, wow thinking about it now it's kind of scary, I remember as a teen sneaking around going too non Mormon parties the church knew about it before my parents and I would be confronted by them before my parent, the more I hear from this woman the more things make Since, I can identify with the things she talks about, I left California in the early 80s so I don't know if things have changed but I'm thinking leaving might of been what helped me escape, when I first moved to Texas there weren't hardly any Mormons here, our first church was in a little 3 bedroom house but it's grown here but still nothing like California.
GREAT interview! I wish there were a part 3, 4, etc...
Lol "Joseph's been starin' at this rock for four years." Heheh
His face must have been sweaty in that hat. !!!
So funny!
Sandra's recountings of Martin Harris and his simple tests are hysterical!!
It has been the biggest challenge, overcoming such evil. Mormonism is sick and perverse!
She's correct. YOU NEVER QUESTIONED. I had the honor of meeting Sandra several years ago. She was not the devil I was cautioned about. Not in any way.
I refuse to listen to any negative comment made about this lady; she is so well read, she truly knows LDS Church History as well as scripture. I admire her courage and tenacity. I understand what she is saying about the way church authorities dealt with people in the 50's & 60's. It's a different Church now to the way it was back then.
Bigot? Sandra has never tied righteousness to one's skin color . mmm... let's see, who do you think has?
Richard Holmes has nothing solid to contribute, hence the very weak dribble of a personal attack. Predictable of any Mormon Apologists.
It's bigoted to want to find out the truth?@@richardholmes7199
Former LDS Bishop Lee Baker, "Mormons don't know what they don't know."@@richardholmes7199
You are a great host. You let your guests do the talking and you seldom interrupt.
It would be helpful if in the discription you included pt 1 of 2 or pt 3 of 5 so we know if there is more to watch.
Thank you. Watching from Alaska.
This is the exact same opinion I had come to, which is that JS originally didn't plan on being a leader of a church, or that he would be worshiped as a prophet in the way that modern members do today. He was claiming to be "a prophet" who was revealing a second testament of jesus christ. He was planning on selling a religious book is all. But then everything just kinda snowballed until he became overwhelmed with the status and prestige he had achieved.
The mormons are lucky this woman came along.
Even as a never-Mormon, I find your podcast fascinating and I'm really enjoying listening to Mrs. Tanner talk about her youth, about her husband, and this entire journey of question and discovery - which is doubly fascinating because she had 2 other generations of strong women behind her. Mrs. Tanner is an intelligent, curious, and open guest and you ask all the right questions, John Dehlin. I have a question about these earlier podcasts, if you don't mind. Who does the music? I love the snippet of vocals/guitar at the beginning and end.
This guy:
ua-cam.com/video/U8AYr-3ZFWI/v-deo.htmlsi=JLNoBkTW74C1rlH4
Thanks for listening!!!
@@mormonstories Thanks for all the work you put into these! Sandra was fascinating. Loved her insight into Hoffman, and the elders in the LDS. You grilled her on her belief in the Bible versus her disbelief in the Book of Mormon and I think she held up, although I don't think you felt her response was "enough" to justify her belief in one and not the other. Her story about her late husband appearing before her made me cry. I was glad you were gentle with her about that.
Fantastic interview
12-3-23, Just watched this, Amazing information!!
Thank you
Les from Eastern Oregon
Sandra is a hero. And her and Gerald's integrity and desire for the truth are to be commended. But I've always been perplexed why she still believes in Christian teachings. Maybe her chosen brand of Christianity isn't based on an active fraud and coverup like Mormonism but it's certainly not truth-based or verifiable. You'd think she'd apply the same logic and standards to her own beliefs as she does to Mormon beliefs. John this may be a good question to ask her when you speak with her next... Which will hopefully be soon.
Edit: She discusses these questions later. Not very satisfactory answers imho but at least clarifies a bit.
She didn't go into it here. Anyone can do their own study into ancient near eastern manuscripts if you're seeking truth. Go all the way back to the Sumarians and study manuscript evidence for all major works from the world powers up through the first century CE
Much of faith is a twisting and not based on truth. But. The Bible is true and that’s I believe, is where she stands. No longer associating with a church. But with God and Christ of the Bible. I grew up in the church and had to unlearn and be pruned of false twisting myself. But my relationship with God has grown stronger because of it. He is good and faithful to save.
@@mya_metzel I'm very glad you found a belief that works for you. I wish you continued happiness on your path!
I've never been LDS but recently been engaging with missionaries. Such sweet guys and I have just been so curious to learn more of the LDS faith. I knew it didn't jive with my view of the Bible but never knew until recently just how much there is to the teachings and history (regarding fraud, deception, etc). These videos help so much for me to have knowledge of the history and have good questions to ask.
Brilliantly stated.
How is all this just ignored by members??
They refuse to listen
Just a question that I would like to ask a faithful Mormon. I hear all the time that they/you need to remember that they or you are a child of "Heavenly Father". I would love to look them in the eye and say... "Don't ever forget you are a son/daughter of 'Heavenly Mother'. I'll love to hear them talk about her. What's she like? What's her rules or hang ups. If Mormonism is true then she's as much a God as "heavenly father" right? So what's her story? She's in the celestial kingdom so she is a Mormon goddess right? Has heavenly father just shoved her in a corner and she's some automaton that just spits out babies like a heavenly AR-15? or do Mormons just think she's nothing? If any Mormons are here... please answer this question. You have a god and goddess so what's BOTH like?
What happened to Ms Harris and the missing pages?
Great video !
Great. I have to clean up the water I spit after hearing, "Joseph's been starin' at this rock for four years"
I have really enjoyed her interviews. Would recommend them to any thinking person looking for answers to questions. I’m a convert from a southern Baptist home to the Catholic Church. Raised my sons as Catholics and raised them as going with them to church and sending them to Catholic school. As adults neither go to any formal church but I still hope.
To have forgiveness of sin and God’s gift of eternal life in the presence of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit, is through faith and trust in Jesus Christ only and not through any church or ritual or rules, that includes the Mormon Church, Catholic Church, Lutheran Church, Protestant Church, Methodist Church, Baptist Churches, Russian Orthodox Church, etc. Jesus said, “Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me.
“For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;” (Romans 3:23)
“For the wages of sin is death; but THE GIFT OF GOD IS ETERNAL LIFE THROUGH JESUS CHRIST our Lord” (Romans 6:23)
It is written, “For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast.” (Ephesians 2: 8-9)
Jesus said, “And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.” (John 17:3)
Jesus said, “…know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.” (John 8:32)
I met Brent Ashworth circa 2005 who confirmed Sandras story in a Provo Kinkos making copies of original historical documents for a fireside or something. To this day I have copies of one of his documents, it was the first news paper that contained an advirtisement for the book of mormon for sale. This was a long time ago but I thinks its well known he bought Hofmann documents, and he alluded that after the murders he bought the churches collection of Hofmann documents. Also, I got the impression that Brent brokered the purchases of documents for the church somehow, probably "donations"!
She fun...and knowledgeable!
New subscriber here.
OMG she said the EXACT SAMETHING I said the very first 4 chapters of reading the BOM it's Joseph Smith cause Nephi sounded young and ignorant about life who God was etc
Can you guys recommend me one of her books? Which one is the best?
"Covering Up The Black Hole In The Book of Mormon."
I hope they are wrong because paradise with those fanatic will hell to me ...
indigent. They were financially indigent.
That's the word she meant.
Around 6:50 Mrs. Tanner explains that Joseph's theology changed from monotheism to a separate God the Father and Jesus Christ in 1842. The first version of D&C is 1835 (prior to that is was Book of Commandments, a select number of "revelations") D&C in 1835 was a 2-part work, Lectures on Faith was the "Doctrine" and the collection of revelations was the "Covenants". D&C was this way until the LDS removed the "Doctrine" in the 1920s, leaving just the Covenants ... but not even Mormons know this.
Anyway, Lectures on Faith, which was D&C at the time, clearly taught that the Godhead was comprised of 2 separate beings, God the Father and His son Jesus Christ and goes into detail about the physical make-up of each.
But don't take my word for it, read it for yourself, that is the only way you'll get to whatever is left of truth. And that is my passive-aggressive way of saying don't take Sandra Tanner's word for it either :) Also, 1835 comes before the 1838 version of the first vision that Dehlin brings up as an inconsistency. So if you want to discredit the First Vision with honesty and integrity, you'll need to back up a few years at least ;)
Sandra’s husband is definitely called out the Max Hoffman con. Amazing Apostles couldn’t receive revelation. 😂
Prayerfully read Alma 32 and Moroni 10: 4-5, and give the Lord equal time.😊
No
Somebody is messing with these videos! Every one that I try to watch gets "paused" indefinitely about 1/3 of the way through...and someone obviously doesn't like this information (the TRUTH) getting out there. Shame on you....UA-cam POLICE!
Watch UA-cam signed out
I admire her and Geralds work so much. Which is why it's hard to watch her get only half way out of a scam.
@@FalconOfStorms oh great, let's hear the verified evidence for a resurrection.
I think Rigdon stole "Manuscript Found" and returned it. Later, Hurlburt and others went to Spaulding's widow and stole 2 books. Manuscript Found and Manuscript Story. The first went to Joe who probably destroyed it. Manuscript Story came into E.D. Howe's possession and he, for reasons not clear to me, intentionally made sure it went to Hawaii.
Richard Holmes Who is Mark Monro?
I have seen a bunch of Mormon Stories broadcasts but Sandra is ultra - interesting indeed! I think her husband seems brilliant as well as Sandra. I do have to differ on Sidney Rigdon though. I think there is too much evidence with what Craig Criddle in what he has to say about the word styles of the BOM and Jonkers - Stanford study. The post office tie in with Sidney Rigdon and the Peterson Publishing Co. before 1827 and Solomon Spalding being in the post office documentation along with S.R. at the same time.
Also the obvious (3) Oliver Cowdrey, S.R. and J.S. all were given rulership at the beginning of the churches existence. I think S.R instituted religious ideas contrary to what Sandra mentions in this video in the BOM and some of the S.Spalding 11 witnesses mentions that. And of course Sidney Rigdon's grandson mentioning it was a family secret that S.R. had taken Solomon Spalding's Manuscript Found. As well as the 11 Solomon Spalding witnesses knowing of the names such as Nephi, Lehi etc. Also some of the S.S. witnesses saying the book was Foolscap and the Manuscript Story (the one in Hawaii) was smaller book size.
But Sandra to me is one of the most interesting talkers and a spiritually dedicated lady. Though I know I differ with her in regards to what I believe in. I just am looking forward to the next two videos with her. What a WEALTH of information ! And she to me came smelling like a ROSE trying to get to the truth when with an LDS apostle at the historic records office.
She should of been treated with much more respect and not treated as something you can just sweep under the rug. What incredible guts and a true hound on the hunt for finding truth in regards to the book of mormon.
I do think though that yes, the book of mormon truly does seem incredibly fraudulent and the BOA has obviously been proven that as well by basically all legit outside the LDS church egyptologist. But I think were the Christian church makes a huge mistake is thinking the pre existence doesn't exist, or that people will go to the grave and wait for the resurrection and won't exist until that time. I really and truly think there is a lot that Jesus is not happy with in the bible.
I think it is great what Sandra has done to bring out truth, but just as much emphasis has to be given to the Christian church and it's ideas that are contrary to what Jesus wants. I do think Jesus is very accepting with believers in him so in my opinion there will probably be a lot of both sides going to a higher sphere than the lower darker realms. But to me, to get the the highest realms there is going to have to be improvements on both sides in true spiritual knowledge as the way things really are.
I do think it is a MONUMENTAL mistake for the Christian's to think that they can't improve their spiritual standing in the spirit world after they die. The bible does have many errors. I do think Joseph is the father of Jesus and do think that Mary does back that up ! I don't that that Jesus is wants to known for saving people from their sins. He wants them to repent themselves, it is un to them and not him! Yes, Jesus lead a sinless life his leaders vouch for that. When most kids were getting into all kinds of mischief Jesus was one responsible child no doubt. Just too much was NOT written down when Jesus was alive and wrote down way too late. It doesn't matter how exacting the monks were in writing down Jesus's scriptures. Because it would of been better if the writings were done in strict obedience right at the time when he was alive. But sadly it was not :(
Ýou say some worthwhile things. I never accepted that Jesus died for my sins. I wouldn't be born for another 2000 years! Killing an innocent person is nothing to celebŕate and my behavior is my responsibility. If I regret my bad decisions and strive to be a better person, isn't that what matters?
@@lisamcdonald2877 John 15:13 - "Greater Love hath no man than this, that he lay down his life for his friends." God is Love. He exists outside of the constraints of TIME(2000yrs) and space of our world. "A day is as 1000 years"(Peter 3:8) - to God. Hebrews 9:27 - "It is appointed unto man once to die." We can deny it, but sooner or later, each of us will die. Where we will go is up to our CHOICE. Jesus tells us that we all have sin in us that we cannot clean away by ourselves. This SIN is the cause of every evil and heartache in our world. God cannot allow sin into heaven, as that would bring this same pain and evil into heaven - and that would not be heaven. Jesus was killed, but He knew this was going to happen, because of the sin in the hearts of mankind - the people could not see Him for who He was - their Savior - so they hated and rejected Him. Jesus, being God(the Son of God) gave his life up willingly, in order to SAVE US - his "friends". He took ALL of our SIN upon Himself - and died with it, taking on OUR punishment; cleansing us because He knows we cannot do it for ourselves. If you or I CHOOSE to accept His sacrifice for us, and to live our lives in relationship with Him(Jesus/God) then we will go to live with Him in a heaven free of evil, grief and pain; we will enter into an eternal life of Love and Joy. This Eternal Life is God's gift to us, because He Loves each one of us so much! So, back to the start: John 15:13 - "Greater Love hath no man than this, that he lay down his life for his friends." That's what Jesus did for you and for me.💜
it's almost like nobody is familiar with the Bible and it's completed work through Christ. Paul said if you follow the law and fall short in one then you are guilty of it all. The law is dead and the mormon religion is legalistic, works related, i hope i make it to heaven, priesthood, temple rights complicated mess. Jesus said come to me all ye that labor, i would recommend thinking for yourself and if your involved in what in certain terms comes down to a cult don't be afraid to look around. The Lord searches the earth for a heart searching for him and he won't let you down. On the other hand mankind and men and not sinless, sin daily and the bible is clear as a bell about adding to it's words and wolves in sheep clothing. Check out the definition of a cult and see where joseph smith falls into that category. Peace and love from a sinner who has been saved by grace of my Lord and my God Jesus Christ
I keep in mind that the Bible was not officially codified until the Council of Nicea, more than 1000 years after Jesus died.
Well and clearly stated. Amen.💝
It hurts to know how slimy the church is and to know how much it would crush my family to find out it isn't true. Their entire identity is built on a false religion and I don't want them to have to go through the painful process of trying to figure out what this world is all about outside of their little bubbles. I would rather see them happy in their little bubbles.
"Every Latter-day Saint should make the study of the Book of Mormon a lifetime pursuit; otherwise he is placing his soul in jeopardy and neglecting that which can give spiritual and intellectual unity to his whole life." -- President Ezra Taft Benson.
Lol when john does the "dumb dumb dumb dumb dumb" / smart references to south park. Lol this old lady never watched that show!!! she doesnt get that reference
To guy with glasses below, pretty obvious you work for LDS in some fashion. So you make you living trying to down play truth being told. Nice job you have lol are you related to Joseph Smith lol.
If you're talking about the interviewer, no. He's no longer a Mormon, and he needed no burning of the bosom to figure out that Joseph Smith was a false prophet.
What "guy with the glasses below'?
Could Joseph Smith have known the place Salalah in Oman? It looks like a real good place for the BoM Bountiful.
Roland V desperate
I met Joseph Fielding Smith, in 1980 at the missionary training centre. I think he was a very rude person.
Lord Jesus how she saying the same thing I said about how the Nephi sounds young and dumb and all this stuff is so made up repetitive etc
Jesus Christ still loves you
In the end the truth and glory come to those that choose hard work and faith. Not death bed repentance!!!
It’s weird after listening to Mark Hoffman’s family it seemed like none of what ppl thought was true. He always knew about polygamy, he was always a bit of a psychopath. He didn’t want to hurt the church, he was literally just nuts & an asshole.
Why even go through all this is you can simply get the TRUTH through prayer!
We will not KNOW until we die, and possibly not even then. We can search and perhaps find comfort and hope in prayers, but truth is elusive and we are not often able to be sure of what we hope is true.
L pop
I love how she says that the Church was threatening them with lawsuits, just to "scare" them. She totally leaves out the part how they made an unauthorized link in their literature to *copyrighted* church doctrine (The Church Handbook.) Breaking copyright law is a legitimate reason to sue someone. Hmm, why did she leave that fact out?
+Kimberly Spurgeon So I don't know a thing about what you are claiming is a copyright violation, however it is certainly not a violation to reference, "link", or provide short quotes from published material, and nobody needs permission to do so, provided the reference is properly cited.
+BaoYili I am quoting from the lawsuit. Your issue is with the lawyers and the courts, not with me. See Intellectual Reserve, Inc. v. Utah Lighthouse Ministry.
Intellectual Reserve, Inc., which owns the LDS Church's copyrighted items, won an injunction against the defendants. Before it went to the Appeals Court the suit was settled out of court.
After reading this, then ask yourself why Sandra Tanner neglected to mention this in her interview, even if she unknowingly broke the law, it was still her fault, not the Church's. Truth mixed with lies = the most potent form of deception.
Here is a bit from its Wikipedia article:
The LDS Church had printed a work of text called the Church Handbook of Instructions: Book 1, Stake Presidencies and Bishoprics. This work had not been published, and had been prepared only for use within the church. The defendants had obtained a copy of the work and published parts of it on their website without reproducing the Intellectual Reserve, Inc. copyright notice. The copyrighted text had also been disseminated to other websites who had published the material, to which the defendants' website linked.[1]
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intellectual_Reserve,_Inc._v._Utah_Lighthouse_Ministry,_Inc.
+Kimberly Spurgeon
Actually she does talk about it rather extensively in her interview - in parts 3 & 4, which I hadn't yet watched when I replied to your comment and which you evidently haven't watched either. I suggest you listen to what she has to say about it before you throw more stones.
+BaoYili I invite you to take your own advice. :-)
+Kimberly Spurgeon I have no way to know what your values are or whether you are the least bit interested in self introspection, but I'll simply remind you that I'm not the one who made false accusations of lying, misleading, and lawbreaking. Nor do I think pointing it out has any kind of equivalency to making the accusations in the first place.
I'm a convert (32 years ago). The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is true. Jesus Christ is my savior.
Which Jesus?
2 Corinthians 11:3-4Expanded Bible (EXB)
3 But I am afraid that your minds will be ·led away [or corrupted] from your ·true [sincere] and pure following of Christ just as Eve was ·tricked [deceived] by the ·snake [serpent] with his ·evil ways [cunning; craftiness; Gen. 3:1-6]. 4 You ·are very patient with [willingly put up with; gladly tolerate] anyone who comes to you and preaches a different Jesus from the one we preached. You are very willing to accept a spirit that is different from the Spirit you received, or a gospel that is different from the one you ·accepted [or received from us].
+Willian Silva Interesting that you mention the church first, then Christ..
Amen Helen E.
Helen E because the most important phrase comes last: it's elementary rule of writing.
Willian Silva Christ said:
37 Jesus replied, “‘You must love the Lord your God with all your heart, all your soul, and all your mind.’ 38 This is the first and greatest commandment.
39 A second is equally important: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself. 40 The entire law and all the demands of the prophets are based on these two commandments.”
+BarbaraJoanne
Yes, she is a very skilled speaker, friendly and charismatic. She's a professional.
And this is how she makes her living, instead of getting a real job like the rest of us.
She has made for herself a "real job". She runs a non-profit. She argues the various issues involved in Mormon history. And, since when is saying someone does not have a "real job" - whatever that is - a rebuttal? Try again.
BarbaraJoanneBJ
OK, so you believe that she has a real job, just like you and me.
Well, let's take a closer look at her job.
Her career objective is to destroy the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter day Saints. She has indeed founded a business ("ministry") of publishing and seminars based on that objective.
One unfortunate and perhaps unintentional result of those efforts is not only convincing some to renounce and abandon the church (with shouts of hallelujah from their supporters), but some/many of them to replace their belief in God with skepticism of all religion. Becoming agnostics and atheists.
But that's just the cost of doing business, I suppose.
Anyway, there are many articles responding to her accusations and assertions, but I'm just making an observation.
Her job is to expose the lies of false prophets. Stop spreading lies.
+cdowis Don't kill the messenger. Mrs. Tanner & her late husband have exposed the untruths of the LDS/Mormon religious system. The amount of work she has done in her lifetime will far exceed the 8-5 job held by most. The responses to Mrs. Tanners claims are ludicrous. Study for yourself before you make sweeping statements. Consider what is at stake - eternity. An eternity spent in the presence of God or eternity forever separated from God. You speak of those who leave the LDS system & become agnostic or atheists. Yes, sadly, many do. My experience with most Mormons, whether inside or outside the church - they do not know the God of the Bible; they do not know the Jesus, the Christ of the Bible. I spoke with a friend who, along with her husband, recently left the LDS church. She said repeatedly today - "the Bible is NOT a part of Mormonism - no matter what the church claims." This is why LDS people leaving the church fall into agnosticism/atheism. It is up to us to be there to catch them before they hit the ground.
Audrey
Ask your friend whether she went to adult Sunday School where they teach the Old and New Testament, ask about the youth early morning seminary program where they spend years studying the Bible.
The Institute Program for college students -- same thing. BYU students are REQUIRED to take these classes, along with the Book of Mormon.
I suggest that you actually visit our church meetings and talk with the members there about studying the Bible in classes. Find out for yourself.
The Bible is considered the word of God, no matter what she says. I have personally read the Bible over ten times, including the Greek NT.
Get rid of the cheesy pro-Mormon hymn which we who are ex-mormon do not want to be subject to. This singing crap stifles your intellectual message. Get rid of this laughing hyena narrator. You don't need hime!
Tthe tanners were fraudsters
What proof do you have?
Joe Smith was the fraudster, AND a convicted con-man to boot, besides lying to everyone about anything that could get him sex, money, or power.
Andrew Pearson all evidence points to the contrary. Start thinking for yourself and not believing only what the church tells you.