Sandra Tanner Pt 3 - Peep Stones, Polygamy, Thomas Ferguson, Eugene England - Mormon Stories Ep. 474
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- Опубліковано 2 сер 2024
- In part 3 of a 4 part series, Sandra discusses several issues including Joseph Smith's treasure digging, connections between the Masonic Lodge temple ceremony and the LDS Church temple ceremony, polygamy, the Mountain Meadows Massacre, blacks and the LDS priesthood, the Thomas Ferguson story, the Eugene England/Bruce R. McConkie letter exchange, the LDS church's law suit against UTLM, and the Godmakers film.
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Timecodes:
00:00 Introduction
00:18 Most damning Mormon issues
03:44 Stones in the hat.
07:12 Seeing a deliberate con. Comparing to televangelist Jim Baker.
08:04 Polygamy, polyandry, marrying teenage girls
11:23 Mountain Meadow Massacre
14:18 Feelings about Brigham Young being her great-greatfather
16:31 Temple ceremony
19:48 Christians telling mormons they bring old testament into new testament
20:34 Blacks and the priesthood
25:25 William Clayton's journals
29:53 Clayton telling about Emma finding out about a polygamous marriage
31:59 Seeing Emma and the other women as real people
33:46 Resources such as the “Year of Polygamy” podcast and the Clayton Diaries
34:50 Thomas Stewart Ferguson
44:36 Disagreement between Eugene England and Bruce McConkie. Adam/God-doctrine
53:07 Arlington papers
57:20 Church sued the Tanners
1:09:25 Involvement in The Godmakers?
1:12:00 Conclusion
#LDS #Mormon #PostMormon #ExMormon #MormonStories
Sandra Tanner is the best of the best. We love her dearly
💯 percent Absolutely
❤❤❤❤
At 17:53, I can testify to the truthfulness of the oaths to slit my throat, my chest and my abdomen. I first went through the temple in 1973 when I was seven months pregnant. I cannot express my horror when I was told to pantomime slitting my abdomen. Those who don't believe that these penalties were ever there are just like ostriches hiding their heads in the sand.
Eeek so scary
I went through in 77. I can't overstate the level of shock and horror I felt going through those things! I still shake when I think about it!
My mother had related this to me as well. My Grandma, her mother went through in the mid to late 90s and my Mom stated how glad she was they took the death oaths out since she felt it would have caused my grandmother to reject the temple.
Great video ! Always glad to see Sandra show what needs to be exposed. Mormonism is on its' way out. Active membership is down to about 5 million, and this downward trend will continue. It's sites like this that get out the REAL Gospel and help dispel error. Hats off to Sandra !!
I luv Sandra Tanner. She's a beautiful woman who has been so helpful. God bless everyone....
I absolutely enjoyed these interviews. I grew up with a certain view of the Tanners that was totally skewed. I really admire this couple.
I sure admire her intellegence. She has the most analytically mind and recall. Movie is needed of this Mighty Woman!And I like the intro song and ending music. Good song for balm for heart in a faith crisis.
Wow, you should listen Dr. Dawkins. He is very intelligent and analytical. Very impressive, and he is an ATHEIST. If intelligence impresses you, go listen to his youtube videos.
Find out where his analytical mind lead him.
@@cdowis Is there a problem with being an atheist. Oh wait, ATHEIST.
"what do you think of Brigham Young?" "he was a good man run amok." those are powerful words.
It seems like he was the poster child for the saying "Absolute power corrupts absolutely".
Burn in hell Joseph Smith and Brigham Young
Good night nurse! What amazing insight into the inner workings of this outfit. I spent 50 years in the mire and didn't have a clue.
Thank you for all your talks and explanations. You are indeed a shining light piercing through the heavy darkness of Mormonism. Bless you and yours.
I also LOVE you Sandra!!! Thank you for your truthful sharing!!! God Bless You!!! I am also extremely grateful for the integrity of you and your beloved husband!!! You two are an inspiration to me and soooo many, who want to know the truth! Sandra, you are a Hero!!! The Church is the freaking problem!!! Keep on giving us and telling the truth!!! ❤️❤️❤️ Love you Sandra!!!
Wonderful interview, wonderful woman (and her husband).
Thank you for sharing your amazing story, Sandra. I was really impressed with the way you expressed everything so matter of factly. You really do have a great love for the Mormon people!
Sandra Tanner is a wonderful person...so intelligent and concise with her information. She has done so much to shed light on the "secrets" and inconsistencies associated with Mormon doctrine. And...she's RIGHT about Joseph Smith...philanderer and con man.
Very Impressed Sandra and I am betting that the last video on her is equally great. I thought her meeting with Thomas Ferguson is truly classic and so LDS historically important ! Though I think the bible has lots of problems as well, I think Sandra seemed to be pretty darn close to digging out the problems with what Joseph Smith did that was wrong. And they sure seem to be plenty.
I would really enjoy a strictly history-focused course(s) by Ms. Tanner, but without her religious views. I think she's a wealth of historic knowledge. I find Mormon and Church history fascinating. Especially, the history of current leaders' families.
What i love about Mrs Tanner is that she didnt allow the Mormons to ruin her ability to have a religious life. She didnt allow them to take her spirituality away from her. I find it sad that so many turn to atheism (another form of religious belief) bc they have been burned. But i guess at the end of the day some people cant trust themselves and have to have a dogmatic belief of some form. Mrs Tanner uses evidence and then trusts herself to have faith based upon that evidence...no dogma and a willingness to move forth in the world w confidence without the need for the ABSOLUTE assurance that some believe atheism provides....
Imagine being part of a religion that was so terrified of its members learning basic history that it went to such extreme measures as the catholic church
I am amazed at this ladies knowledge! Agree with her or not - she is a walking encyclopaedia of Mormon history
I can't hear come come ye saints and be happy anymore. It's like a knife in my heart
She is telling the truth in love. Would you rather been on a lie your whole life??
King James Bible
For what is a man profited, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul? or what shall a man give in exchange for his soul? Mathew 16:26
I Pray that God can heal your heart and open your eyes to the Truth.
I grow up in a cult too and I understand how painful see that we have been lied our whole lives but God is good!!! If He lead you to ths video, He will lead you to the Truth.
I am memorized by her story.. Can't stop watching. :)
Helen E mezmerized
I'm mesmerized also.
Sandra Tanner says Joseph Smith is a con man he's a con man
@AnarchoRepublican Joseph Smith has been sending millions to hell by his impossible gospel.
Read the Bible full chapters at a time and you will never will come up with what the LDS believes.
Deuteronomy 6:4!!!!!
@@eileenjared
Mormons are the most deceived church upon the earth.
Mormons belong to: The Church Of Joseph Smith of Latter Day -Deceived- Swindled
The Book Of Mormon is The Most Corrected Book Upon The Earth
The Book Of Mormon is Another Deception Of The Anti Christ
The Book Of Mormon is Joseph's Myth
@@adamgoodword7888 totally agree with you is sad but true
Sandra is a great example of perseverance!
Sorry, Sandra, that I used to think that you were anti-Mormon. What a great person you are.
When you love someone you redirect them to the Truth. And she loves LDS people that's why she shares the Truth of the Gospel. When you don't love someone you don't care where they go or what they do. And she cares and loves LDS, a Born again Christian that Loves the LORD and wants LDS to open their eyes to the Truth.
@@daveyjones9930 Lol maybe the person was being ironic. Since (for the most part) there is no such thing as anti-mormon literature... it's just TRUTH!
Tanner and Vogel my respects . I’m not LDS or was LDS but the research they provided is outstanding and detrimental to the LDS church . If people are still in there is because they have cognitive dissonance or 💰 invested
This Religion failed me, I am lost for words to describe the deep sorrow I feel being misled by this organization. I am in my early 30s now taking control of my life, and spirituality, I spent 20 years of my young life in this religion made life changing decisions being misled by the doctrine of this church. In short thank you so much for these podcasts to awaken people to the truth and find true spirituality. currently I am healing from the disappointment of realizing that I spent my young adult years playing advocate for lies.
I will be turning 60 this year. Never married. I had an abusive home so went to the church to get away. Eyes opening after all these years. Devastated!
@@lorijohnston7795 Hi Lori, it is truly devastating, we not only believed but made it part of who we are, part of our identity and when you find out these "hidden truths" ( because the Church hides truths to us and tells us not to inquire outside of church approved reading material) , your world turns upside down, the level of betrayal and confusion one feels I cannot even think of anything to compare it with! you feel so lost, alone, angry, and you wonder why are they persisting to continue to deceive people like this? robbing people of their mortal experience, numbing their intellectual processes of reasoning, perception and judgement. I hate the person I was as the member of the LDS church, I thought I was better than most people in my area and I am saved everyone else is doomed for damnation who willfully rebels against the Church, in my eyes it was the only true church upon the face of the earth. I was willing to lose close relationships because of it, siblings and parents, it made me an evil person. I was not kind at all though by nature I am very kind and polite. Before my father passed away he told me that this LDS Church is not true at all, now I know why all these years he refused to join it and I am happy for him! I am also happy that in my own way I learned that it's a made up religion. I hope you find peace, and you live your life with a firm assurance that you are loved by our Creator, and your life is purposed, love those around you, enjoy it and take good care of yourself. May you continue to be blessed in this journey of discovery ❤️🤗. Love you Lori, I wish I was close enough to give you a hug, keep on being brave, you are on the right path now emancipated from Mormonism.🤗
Mormons hate this awesome woman, God bless her soul.
Long live Sandra Tanner!
Thanks Sandra for opening our eyes!
John, I wish you would ask some educated Orthodox or Catholic Christians the (very good) questions about religious experiences your ask Mormons who are now evangelical Christians. Christianity should marry solid history with faith, it’s not all one or the other. This was a great interview, and I loved hearing from Sandra. Maybe she was not prepared to compare her spiritual experience with Joseph Smith’s, but that does not invalidate her experience. Many Christians are ready for this question, and we cite history, not feelings of assurance, as our primary evidence for Christianity. Feelings change with depression or anxiety or any number of circumstances. If you are interested in this you can see NT Wright’s books and podcast or Bishop Barron’s UA-cam and podcast work. Peace.
Btw, this interview was great, and you’re an very fair interviewer. I just wanted to address that one portion. All my best!
John looks really good! He looks rested and relaxed. Good on you John.
God bless her courage.
She is so sharp. What a brilliant woman
I find it incredibly disrespectful and that’s putting it mildly..of the “baptizing” of dead people. Such hubris!
Love this woman. Articulaty and wise.
But it makes me sad that a storyteller JS could create such a scam that hurt so many many people
Extremism is dangeros in any form as it comes.
Kudos to humans like Mrs Tanner❤
God ❤️❤️❤️❤️ her!!!
Wow the Mormon Church was so evil with that lawsuit
John's face 8:03-8:05 LOL. Love him!
Thank you. Watching from Alaska.
Which podcast are you referring to with Michael Coe? Thanks!
www.mormonstories.org/michael-coe-an-outsiders-view-of-book-of-mormon-archaeology/
minute 26:00. Clayton made a sworn notarized statement confirming he was the scribe of D&C132, and JosephsMyth was doing polygamy before 132 was written/. This statement was used by Joseph F Smith in his 1904 book, "Blood Atonement and the Origin of Polygamy" to prove JS introduced and practiced polygamy. This book was part of a debate with RLDS Bishop, R.C. Evans. RC couldn't believe JS was a polygamist. RC lost that debate and fled Mormonism and wrote "20 Years in the Mormon Church and Why I Left".
So not true. In the New Testament it teaches to"have only one wife"
@@ebear6555 polygamy and blood atonement are Mormon facts I gave two ref
1) "Yahweh, He is God in heaven above and on the earth below; there is no other." Deuteronomy 4:39
WHERE ARE THE MORmON gODS?
(2) "Before Me there was no God formed, And there will be none after Me." Isaiah 43:10
WHEN WAS WERE THE MORmON gODS FORMED?
(3) "'I am the first and I am the last, And there is no God besides Me." Isaiah 44:6
"I am Yahweh, and there is no other; Besides Me there is no God." Isaiah 45:5
DOES MY GOD NOT KNOW THE MORmON gODS?
Signature Books released the William Clayton Diaries in the past year or two John said. I only see the Clayton diaries book that came out in '94.....what gives?
There is a very good picture painted of Joseph Smith and his life. It all depends on who you want to listen to
"The Devil can cite Scripture for his purpose". William Shakespeare.
Where can I find the "mormon matters podcast"?
❤️
That's what I keep telling people why aren't people made at the church this info is public domain look it up yourself of no this all fake cause the church said its fake uh duh of course they would
Darn.… I was hoping to hear bout Mormon Peep Shows!!!!! :-p
Loved this interview with Sandra however she got her facts wrong about "The Godmakers" the young man who committed suicide, committed suicide because he was gay and the church's views on it, not due to masturbation.
I really not think the girls worried about going out on the town back in those days. 😝
Excellent video series. Everyone in the world should read John 3:3,14-18 very important words spoken by Jesus. Also John 3:36 Romans 11:6 and Ephesians 2:8,9.
I use the same critical thinking that Jeremy describes in these videos to realize that the Bible is not what people claim it to be either.
Ryan Stott
Well said.
Best it lady!
She cared to help lds get their eyes opened
🦋🦋🦋🦋🦋
To be fair, Mormons aren't the only Christians to bring back parts of the Old Testament. Despite Paul's going on and on about circumcision not being necessary anymore Protestants and Catholics were still insisting on having their sons circumcised in the 1980s.
GOD doesn’t change!! I agree - polygamy: imposed and then revoked.
Temple rituals changed because they’re offensive and upsetting.
Priesthood / temple veil / sacrifice was abolished by Christ’s coming. God is unchanging!
Black acceptance/ rejection / acceptance. Christ has accepted all, the Ethiopian taught by Phillip.
3:38 case closed
How do people still believe in this? I concede that there are great speakers- Holland, Monson and others -and good people! But their “gospel” is corrupt in the extreme
This turned into an aggressive /defensive conversation
I didn't see it that way. John Dehlin just likes to play Devil's Advocate.
God or religion always follows man, not the other way around, how many women Vickers priests have you come across of late
lots of them
I meet her as a uofu student in faith crisis. Trying to save mormons as Christians. Futile now in 2024, all religion bogus now... I've gone atheist.
If you are going atheist, then I would look into the facts of that religion as well. You can disagree with religion but believe in the bible. Many athiests try to disapprove christ and end up turning to him. Read the bible. Don't believe religion, but look into the facts of the bible.
think NHM
There are factual and historic backup to Christianity. For the resurrection.
Christianity does have factual backup
I’m a Christian and I want to show my Atheist mom some solid evidence for the Bible and resurrection. Do you have any good sources?
I am seeing this a year later...so sorry.
If you had any facts to support your claim you would cite them. You madam are a liar.
Check out Lee Strobel's "The Case for..." series.
@@rickbrauner1373 Is that what convinced you? Where is the empirical evidence?
Sounds like he's a narc narcsist jo smith
of course the Book of Mormon is true. it has chiasma. I'm joking.
53
I respect that she saw the lies and cons of Mormonism creation. But I find it ironic she has found the “truth” in the bible. When she has nothing to back up anything it says.
There is much to support things in the Bible. Archeological evidence is found over and over.
@@KathyStrickland-nh9vx sure. People lived back then for sure
I think smith was a ridiculous charlatan but brigham was a particularly wicked man
She's great. It's just too bad that she doesn't look a bit closer into the creation of Christianity. Those writers aren't any more honest than Joseph Smith. There are reasons why any Jew who properly studies their religion would never convert to Christianity. I'm not Jewish, I just like watching Rabbi Tovia Singer debates.
The current consensus among scholars of Judaism is that in the first two centuries quite a large number of Jews actually did convert to Christianity, especially in what is today modern-day Turkey and Egypt. More perplexing, it seems that many converted to the extremely anti-semitic Marcionite branch (which is considered heretical now). The current Mormon history actually suggests how this was possible, as we can see that a good chunk of international Mormonism is concentrated in Latin American countries where everyone would have been considered "Lamanites" in a religion that clearly looked down on them.
The Jews of the modern age follow a branch of Judaism called Rabbinical Judaism, but this movement developed partly as a reaction of Christianity. That's why it's very difficult to convert them into Christianity today. They follow a religion that has been inoculated against Christianity for the past two millennia. Followers of the earlier forms of Hellenized Judaism and apocalyptic Judaism were easier to convert, and conversion to Christianity may have been a major factor in the extinction of these movements.
With that said, Messianic Judaism is surprisingly becoming very successful in Israel. This is why Tovia is now there to combat its spread.
@@andrewsuryali8540 Probably, like today, the Jews who converted were the ones that also didn't know their own religion very well.
That's not surprising, since most people couldn't read, then.
@@llt8101 Well, in the first century, the Jews who converted were primarily the Greek-speaking literate elites outside Jerusalem. They practiced a form of Judaism with a theology similar to what is represented in the preamble to the Gospel of John (In the beginning was the Word...) and contributed that part of Christian theology that ultimately developed into the Trinity. It isn't that they didn't know their religion well. They knew too well and went far beyond their traditionalist compatriots in Judaea in trying to justify their beliefs within the "modern" (at the time) worldview of a very Greek world. This is what liberal and reform Judaism tried to do in the 19th and early 20th century as well in a very German Europe of the time. In Israel my understanding is that Messianic Judaism is finding converts mainly in the elite educated communities and among the military elites who strongly detest ultra-orthodox pacifism. It's a form of backlash against the increasing dominance of ultra-orthodoxy.
@@andrewsuryali8540 This is all fairly off topic. When I said that "any Jew who properly studies their religion" wouldn't convert to Christianity, I was obviously talking about the present and not about how many Greek speaking Jews did or didn't convert to Christianity in the first century.
There isn't enough information from that era to know for certain how many or what kind of Jews converted. There's a lot of guess work in that and it hardly matters whether literate Greek speaking Jews who would not likely be able to read a book written in Hebrew or Aramaic speaking illiterate Jews who also couldn't read Hebrew converted. There would have been the mistranslated Greek language Septuagint but that wouldn't be around until the third century. None of this is on the topic of whether Jewish people now, who actually studied their religion and read the Tanakh regularly would convert to Christianity.
twisted
Please change the introductory music. It sounds so old fashioned!
The point is its all BS
Please tell me again why she was excommunicated? I'm sure it was something to do with NOT telling the truth
Study your own church history and you will find that she is absolutely telling the truth. I did and that is why I am no longer LDS.
Try looking into the history and be willing to have an open mind instead of choosing to stay brainwashed.
Sandra: None of it’s historical - Joseph made it up
Higher Criticism Scholars: ....Hand me that Bible.
I jest, but the Bible has just as many of the same issues as the Book of Mormon and Book of Abraham.
the bible has more historical evidence than any other book ever made. you can not compare unless u are trolling
The bible is authentic and it talks about geography and cities that has always existed. The bible predicted and foretold history before it happened. The mormon literature was made up bu scoundrels who resuscitated the witcraft of the Egyptians. The bible speaks harshly of the workings of the mormon.
Such as?
Steeped in the Greek mystery religions, traditional Christianity is an obfuscation of all that is holy. Sandra Tanner is being allowed, for a season, to like like the bastard daughter of one Lucifer, son of the morning, who fell from grace due to his insatiable desire for power. Polygyny is Biblical and the Bible greats practiced Polygyny, proving that God knows something about Polygyny the WASPS and so called "Evangelicals" do not. Polygyny did not stop Jehovah from declaring Israel as his chosen people. Polygyny did not halt King David's growth and development after he REPENTED. After being outed by the PROPHET Nathan, who spoke for God, David repented fully and he sinned no more. He was still a Polygynist. He was not found wanting by Jehovah, his God in any respect.
The mysterious gods of Trinitarianism are of Greek origin because the Greeks removed from the God of the Torah the physical characteristics of the Creators of all things. The Greeks declared that God looked nothing like man, yet Adam was created in the image of God. Even was made in the image of God. Male and female were created in the image of God, but despite the Word being replete with proof texts the Greek cultures and philosophies sought to make God disappear into mysticism and mayhem.
Those liars in the 1830s and 1940s were all punished by God and their mortal bodies rotted to death as their status slipped from lofty heights to being dossers, deadbeats and friendless. Their wealth evaporated like the hoar front in the midday sun. They were found out by Elohim. They were watched by Jehovah and while they were rejected by the Spirit, the angels followed them to their next sinful state and recorded their doing that YOU would know how God dealt with them. YOUR Bible is the work of man. Your favourite Bible texts are repudiations of the pure clear Gospel of the Lord, and it is now 100% proven that many plain and precious things were removed from the Gospel of Jesus Christ.
The Lord shall suddenly come to HIS TEMPLE, which Temple he commanded the saints to build in their poverty, which Temple the WASPS BURNED TO THE GROUND, which Temple the saints rebuilt and rededicated.
Before Mountain Meadows were numerous mass murders by the lovely Christian folk.
185 years on the Evangelicals have still not built a Temple to their god.
185 years later the WASPS are still stinging to death anyone who will not gather to the Kirk and gather with their Greek philosophical monstrosities.
185 years later, the Gainsayers are still not listening to the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob.
185 years later the mystery gods still have the false prophets in their pockets and their hearts in chains.
GOD LIVES. JESUS IS THE CHRIST. THE HOLY GHOST IS THE COMFORTER. THE BOOK OF MORMON IS TRUE AND IS THE WORD OF GOD. JOSEPH SMITH IS A PROPHET OF GOD WHO MET WITH THE FATHER AND THE SON IN THE SPIRIT AT PALMYRA, WITH THE DEITIES HAVING TRAVELED FROM THEIR HEAVENLY HOME TO CALL HIM AS THE LIVING PROPHET OF THE RESTORATION. THE HOLY SPIRIT TESTIFIES TO ALL WHO SEEK THE TRUTH IN FAITH OF THE VERACITY OF THESE ETERNAL TRUTHS. THE PRIESTHOODS OF AARON AND MELCHIZEDEK HAVE BEEN RESTORED. APOSTLES AND PROPHETS WALK THE EARTH IN SERVICE OF THE ONE TRUE GOD. APOSTLES HAVE BEEN SENT FORTH ONCE MORE TO CRY REPENTANCE TO THE WHOLE EARTH AND TO BAPTIZE IN THE NAME OF THE FATHER, THE SON AND THE HOLY GHOST. THESE ETERNAL THOUGHTS I LEAVE FOR ALL MANKIND IN THE SACRED NAME OF JESUS CHRIST AMEN AND AMEN.
SHOUTED IN BLOCK CAPITALS FOR THE HARD OF HEART.
"Before Mountain Meadows were numerous mass murders by the lovely Christian folk. "
Listen to the anti's whine in defense of an idolatrous god and because good folk fight back. Typical.
In the Old Testament God punished David for stealing another man's wife (thankfully David repented of this)
There is no record Joseph Smith ever repented of his sexually immoral ways, stealing mens wives and paedophilia etc.. I think it's sad you want defend a religion started by a proven liar, racist and abuser of young girls.
It's similar to how modern Muslims turn a blind eye to the fact Muhammad also married a child
Andrew Williamson "There is no record Joseph Smith ever repented of his sexually immoral ways, stealing mens wives and paedophilia etc."
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Well when you can actually prove JS had sex with his wives other than Emma..... give us a call. That one is getting very old and boring. No kids...... no proven sex. Get a clue.
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He never stole others wives either. He was sealed to them for the afterlife. No foul done.
According to the New Testament (Matthew 19) Jesus described marriage as between one man and one woman. We now know for a fact (and the Mormon Church has admitted) Smith had up to 40 wives (and off course the unbiblical nonsense about being "sealed in the afterlife" is and has always been a ridiculous attempt to justify his appetite for women)
I would urge you to research the life of Joseph Smith outside of what the Mormon church tells you to believe (Off course Smith isn't the only cult leader to use religion to justify marriage with young girls, Monhamed also married a child around 15)
I would rather follow the sinless Son of God than the unbiblical ideas & theories of a self-proclaimed 'prophet'
Are you serious???? You are deceived by Satan