Grant Palmer - "My Ah-Ha Moments While Researching Mormon History"
Вставка
- Опубліковано 21 лис 2012
- Grant is the author of An Insider's View of Mormon Origins (Signature Books, 2002) and The Incomparable Jesus (Kofford Books, 2005). He has also penned articles for the Salt Lake Tribune, Sunstone Magazine, The John Whitmer Journal and the Midwestern Journal of Theology. His list of positions and teaching environments is extremely varied, and very interesting. During all the years he was working, Grant continued his research about the church, and eventually retired early from CES because he could no longer reconcile what his research showed with what he was asked to teach. He and his wife Connie live in Sandy, Utah. They like to travel and enjoy raising homing pigeon and parakeets. Grants homepage is: www.mormonthink.com/grantpalme.... His email is: granthpalmer@gmail.com He has a two page outline of An Insider's View of Mormon Origins and welcomes requests for a copy if you will email him.
I left the LDS church in 2006. I was asked a single question on my faith by a friend, a Christian. To this day I can’t, for the life of me remember what that question was. My friend asked that I don’t answer at that moment, but to wait and pray and search for the answer. I spent the next 3 days searching and reading and praying. I found tons of info on the internet and an internet site Mormons In Transition (MIT). I had conversations through emails with a few of them and found more and more inconsistencies with the LDS church. Angry and broken I prayed and continued to read and search for the next few days. …Hearing/listening to Ex-Mormons here in Utah is hard. It brings back so much emotion. I am finding it difficult not to stay angry of the LDS church, although I am wholeheartedly grateful for these UA-cam videos.
Congrats on leaving the bondage of the Mormon Church. Rejoice in your new found freedom my friend.
Searching the Scriptures and praying for TRUTH is a much different experience than a "burning in the bosom" ...
And you SHOULD be angry.... the LDS hierarchy absolutely knows all of these things and the lack of evidence and the way they have changed their various doctrines with the times...none of which is honest or transparent in a way that shows a genuine care and concern for a person's soul....
Nearly twenty years gone and here you still are...pathetically bashing a faith you claim to have rejected two decades ago. I've heard therapy helps. I think you still have unresolved issues. After this long you're still angry and broken. Sad.
I served a mission 08-10, and after being out 18 months we were suddenly directed to try to commit our investigators to baptism after the first lesson... I could never do that... started my cognitive dissonance... also the "anti" I had read (just trying to see what kinds of concerns I might hear from ppl) turned out to be true, not just "wicked lies".... so I left a couple weeks after returning home
Wow, the internet is such a reliable source of info regarding anything!!
Thank you Grant Palmer! You are an example to us all.
After 28 years, a mission, temple marriage, working for LDS for 5 years, all I have is a hand full of good memories and a mountain of anxiety, anger, distrust, cognitive dissonance, etc... I just got tired of being told I was wrong by people who know less than I do, but as the bishop told me point blank to justify staying in the church, "ignorance is bliss"
+bobthetuber11 Thanks for leaving so we didn't have to throw you out.
Glad to hear you've gotten free ! Yes, so many have been duped into believing Smith and his cultic nonsense.
John Lee what an asshole you are
I find it amazing they are still putting out how real the BOM is !
@Buck Snort Just wishing him well on his journey out of accountability.
about 4 years ago this video was everything to me...Thank you Grant, you changed my life.
I had a mormon mother and atheist father. my father was a verbally, sexually, and physically abusive man. when I was in my late twenties my bishop, after being told what happened, gave me a priesthood blessing and told me not to berate my father. can you imagine????
I want other victims/survivors to know, DO NOT BELIEVE THAT LIE!!!!
seek real help and don't see a church psychologist!
hope and piece of mind can happen.
You should have turned the man into the legal authorities for prosecution. I don't know the circumstances but that bishop was wrong. After the blessing you and the bishop should've got on the phone and called the police.
I can imagine he wanted you to feel at peace after you had been out of the situation for so many years. I’m sorry you had to experience all those difficult years.
WE KNOW MANY MORMONS ARE REALLY NICE PEOPLE BUT THEY ARE BRAINWASHED BY THE MORMON FRAUD!!!! WE ALSO KNOW THERE ARE MORMONS WHO ARE CRIMINALS, ESPECIALLY THE FALSE PROPHETS, FALSE APOSTLES, SEVENTIES, ETC!!!!! THEY KNOW THEIR "CHURCH" IS A BILLIONAIRE CORPORATION AND THEY ARE JUST BILLIONAIRE BUSINESSMEN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
That's awful!!
No one should tell an abuse survivor how to feel or perceive their abuser, that's so personal. Even worse to do so though a "blessing", directing a person how to feel because God said so.. it's just more abuse on top of the original.
I am happy to proclaim that I have left the LDS church. Like Grant, I still have great faith in Jesus Christ.
+Sara K Now go learn differences in beliefs! God is the creator of all in Christianity.
+Sara K Thanks for leaving on your own...we usually have to throw our deadwood out.
+Sara K Good for you ! Always glad to hear of your departure from deception. Mormonism is a spiritual prison. Enjoy your new-found freedom in God.....
My mental health is much better, and my spirituality and closeness to God is increasing. I left a year ago.
+Sara K I wish you well on your journey out of accountability...
It takes guts to leave a cult like LDS. Intellectual integrity is a gift from God.
Tell that to God, not me.
It does indeed! Because so many times, story after story I've heard how ex mormons have lost family and friends.
I certainly did.
But, the rewards for leaving Mormonism and losing much is gaining Jesus!!
God bless Maxwell!
YOU LOST YOUR FAMILY?? WHAT HELL KIND CULT IS THIS?
Truth
Sarah Kay nakedmormonismpodcast.com
Brilliant. I can’t believe how much I keep learning about the actual and true history of the church. It keeps blowing me away. Love it. Thank you
I am so happy to see these people come out of the cult of mormonism
You didnt like my koolaid? Please come back, it only takes 10% of your income to go to heaven.
Joseph Smith I am seeking forgiveness for my sins, would you throw in a Second Anointing if I go all the way up to 15%?
Me too.
The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints is the church of Christ. When it is the truth people hate truths. We still love you brothers and sisters. We don't retaliate because when Jesus Christ did not retaliate his enemies. Why don't you leave the church and not bad mouth it????? The guilt is not easy to live with. God sees everything and his work shall move forward as evidently shows in the growth of the gospel in the four corners of the world. Thank you.
@@toesetusitala3083 When your "truth" is contradicted by facts and evidence, it isn't true.
"The English Bible was to the Catholic church what the internet is to the Mormon church." - Grant Palmer (1:13:05) ...very fascinating insight.
Except it wasn’t.
Former member here myself. Once I started to research the lack of archeological and DNA evidence in for the book of Mormon, I knew it was time to leave. I am now closer to Christ.
I’m sorry to hear that.
Me, too. Left Mormonism eight years ago. But I will never leave Jesus Christ behind.
@@jestes7so is your god, satan.
blessings on you & your journey!
@@jestes7why?
DAMN. That lady who described the church's "corporate package as declining in value" and called them out for racism, sexism, and homophobia. A+++
Mere C that was cringe af
I agree with Palmer, but there is no racism, sexism, or homophobia from the church. I lived in it every day for 20 years
It’s 2am and I’ve just taken about 10 pages of notes on this talk and my mind is blown--one of those little mind field explosions you mentioned--but THANK YOU!!!!! I left about 4 years ago all because of an unworthy bishop and now your words make me so very sure I did the right thing!!! I’m glad I didn’t waste more time! I’m ordering your book!
blessings on your journey!
The hardest part of leaving Mormonism is learning that words and terms mean very different things to people like me who grew up in the LDS church and those who are Bible-based Christians. It has been a painful and difficult journey of 40 years.
Thanks for leaving on your own...we would have thrown you out eventually.
God bless you on your ongoing journey. May you continue to grow in the love and wisdom of the one and only True God. You must be a courageous person.
I bet you are thankful for the pain involved to be realizing the truth!!!
I don't think the LDS church would have the amount of followers it has right now if the internet existed many years ago. More will leave over time. I just don't understand how the finances are not for public viewing by this church. Tithing is investment money for LDS Corp Inc not for tithing.
You’re right, they would have more. Look how shitty society has gotten since the internet. We have stupid kids in school as furries, going in litter boxes and not responding to questions from teachers because furries don’t talk.
Grant Palmer is a gift to us.
Now he is in Heaven with Jesus.
I found this illuminating and interesting. Thankyou for doing this for us. I have left the church, after 40 years. I was appalled at what I had been in for those 40 years.
I was in for 40 years, too. I converted at 16. What a waste!
@@sarak6860It didn't happen against God's will. It wasn't a waste. Our thoughts aren't His thoughts, and His ways are higher than our ways. Have faith in Him that this was neccesary for His will and pleasure. Nothing works against Him, all things glorify Him in the end, I believe.
You may be right. There are good things I learned during my years as a Mormon.@@swayzy762
I also thought the church was true, and I also didn't like it. I experienced years of depression that started to lift after reading unedited church history. It is amazing how living a repressed life can influence mental health.
Grant Palmer said that the Egyptologist's were right! Although the You Tube video titled ''Book of Abraham Debunks anti-LDS Lies'' in the YEAR 2014 DEBUNKED ALL OF THAT ANTI-BOOK OF ABRAHAM INFO (books, websites, You Tube videos) though!
Why did you tangent off topic to something not even addressed?
You misrepresent our faith with these caustic posts.
@Janette Johnson Google ''Book of Abraham debunks anti-LDS Lies You Tube'' It's thee video that debunked Robert Ritner and the other Egyptologist's. How? Proper interpretation of the translation process of the Book of Abraham. It kind of proves that Grant Palmer on the above You Tube video is ludicrous on his anti-Book of Abraham attack, in other words. As all anti-Book of Abraham efforts, books, You Tube videos, sites, from the Egyptologist's and the anti-Mormon Christian's (self addressed Christians) is based on false idiotic assumptions on translation.
Grant Palmer, thee Egyptologist's, thee anti-Mormon Christians, the remainder have been proven to be jackasses, in other words. As ALL anti-Book of Abraham information, anti-Book of Abraham You Tube videos for example, is based on false idiotic assumptions on the translation process of the Book of Abraham from Joseph Smith. That video that I told you you about in my last comment proves it. Proves it by demonstrating proper INTERPRETATION of the translation process of the Book of Abraham. That video followed shortly after a silent prayer to God in the year 2014 for some kind of new insight on this Book of Abraham subject. By the way, that video is video 1 of 10. I wouldn't suggest listening to the anti-Mormon information from the likes of Grant Palmer on the above You Tube video, they're not a very honest people.
Richard Holmes You come across as increasingly desperate and paranoid. What are you so afraid of? Finding out that Grant Palmer is telling the truth? Pathetic.
Brother Palmers study and accounts of Joseph Smith is very disturbing. He really shed the light on the dark personality of what Joseph Smith really was.
I, like most Mormons, assumed the "good feelings" were a confirmation of Mormonism--until I realized that those EXACT FEELINGS showed up when I sang the National Anthem, read "Old Yeller", saw the movie "PS I Love You" and read "Twas The Night Before Christmas".
Were my thrilling and tingly and heart warming, burning in the bosom feelings reading "Twas The Night Before Christmas" a confirmation that Santa Claus was REAL or true??
Paul Dunn (Qof70) was a great story teller. THRILLING!
ALL a lie!.
's because you were never taught the difference between emotions and the feeling of the spirit. the church doctrine is actually true but you and others really never were taught and seem to be gullible. Because you finally learned to think you think its not true however imo you haven't thought far enough and that is why. Yes, you can get warm feeling from a lot of things but the light you can't get from it and the gift of the Holy ghost you can't. you can feel the HOly ghost but not have it has a constanst companion and there is a difference. and you need to read the book Faith crisi by the stoddards. I haven't needed it but many others seem to because typical people mormon aren't familiar with con men and are book smart but with out critical question thinking. and this guy says this and some of them eat it up. if you don't believe its not true why stay?
@@bobbyc.1111 insulting and belittling people is certainly the way to bring them back. “Bobby, you’re a moron for not critically thinking and just ‘feeling’ that something is true.”
You’re not following the great commandments. You’re being an asshole. And if you really want to bring people unto Christ, stop attacking and bullying and belittling the “lost sheep.”
Noticed it at an ozzy osbourne concert and it made me completely loose my testimony of the holy ghost. That blasphemous rock god showed me the way
Wait…Santa Claus is a lie?
Its not a lie if you believe it@TP-om8of
This video is great and thank you for posting. I'm former LDS and ministries such as yours were such a crucial part of my getting saved. Praise God!
You're not saved when you reject the very church and ONLY church that Christ created! Wise up!
And you're saved if you embrace this 'Church'? You still have to perform works once you're in it.
Joshua Casey Actually, nobody HAS to perform anything. We all have agency. Can we be honest about this question? The Bible has MUCH to say about faith and works. Parts of it APPEAR to be in conflict with each other but is clarified upon careful examination, in context. For example, he was once asked Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life? (Matt 18:16). His answer was simply to keep the commandments. 1 Jn is full of references necessitating works as a part of salvation. The NT is full of references of things we are commanded to DO - which would have been unnecessary if all we needed to do was to sit back and do nothing. And Luther actually advocated removing several books from the Canon, including James because of its emphasis on works.
Clearly, there are parts of the Bible that indicate that what is needed is to have faith in Christ without the deeds of the law (Rom 3:27) or that man is not justified by the works of the law (Gal 2:16). The LDS view is that "the law" that is referred to, is simply the law of Moses, which was fulfilled in Christ. Further, we believe that it is ONLY in Christ that we are saved, after all we can do (2 Ne 25:23).
Finally, even the act of believing is something we either do or don't do. Belief is, very much, a work. And all of our works are a natural result of our faith.
unirrational, the Mormon view is that it is only in Christ we are saved after all we can do? What if we don't do everything we can possibly do? Who among us does? Hear me out, obedience is important. But I don't strive to keep the commandments to gain eternal glory; I try to keep them because it's the wish of someone who gave their life for me. Also, no man is to judge how well I keep the commandments. Just like I'm not to judge anyone else.
Joshua Casey Try writing your sentences properly, before you claim you know what you are talking about. Wise up!
As a former and active LDS member, I came to the same understanding as Grant Palmer. And like an onion, layer by layer can be stripped away resulting in nothing left but tears. The seer stones, the method JS used to "translate" the BOM, the Kirtland bank experience ending with JS becoming a fugitive, the Missouri experience, Nauvoo, polygamy, etc. You can see how JS became what he cautioned against, once a man obtains a bit of authority he begins to exercise unrighteous dominion. But it was how JS treated his closest friends when they rejected polygamy that is most telling...
We left the church, three families, 13 people. Praise God, he showed us the truth.
13 fewer weak and confused Mormons...what's the downside?
@@johnlee1352 whose the weak one? the people who face the realities of the FARSE that is LDS and leave or someone like you who is either just believing whatever someone has told you that you don't care to find out for yourself or you're just too prideful to admit that you've been wrong or duped.... there is no shame in admiting to that... it's your ETERNITY that's at stake!! I will pray for you♥︎
@@Standing.W.Israel OR... I'm right and you're a weak idiot...the possibilities are endless! Always glad to be the subject of prayer, though I suspect my best interests will not be at the fore. If you ever were LDS, thanks for leaving so we didn't have to throw you out. If you never were, thanks for staying out.
You can believe almost anything if you put your mind to it. I now prefer reason over feelings when it comes to beliefs, though. I don't blame those who think the BOM is true or do I think they're stupid. They've just followed "feelings" instead of reason. I happen to value truth more than loyalty. I left Mormonism because of that. You don't find truth by feelings. Logic and evidence may lead to uncomfortable truths and may not be as pleasant as deluding oneself, but I prefer it. If you've got to tell yourself fairy tales to be happy, go for it.
just imagine if the fairy tails are true what the result will be one day think about it
+rationalguy On behalf of good Mormons everywhere, let me congratulate you on your exit from the Mormon Church. You saved us the trouble of throwing you out! We're always looking to get rid of the deadwood and misfits anyway. You're too weak and self absorbed to be among us. Have a nice unaccountable life.
+John Lee What a nasty little mormon you are..... "glad you left"? What an impressive Christ -like love you have for ex-members! You loveless hard hearted hypocrite. Many thanks for showing a perfect example of the real inside attitudes of your fake religion.
+rationalguy Some will allow you to bash their faith with impunity! Not this one.
John Lee I do not believe that your response would be approved by your bishop, or Jesus himself. Do you?
I think they are amazing too: Believing in gold plates, Abraham's writings turning up in America, dark skin being a sign of God's displeasure, travelling to other planets at will (yes one of the prophets thought he could do this) Quakers living on the moon, men living on the sun, polygamy, etc etc. And it's even more amazing that people can still believe in these men.
RIP GRANT PALMER.
I miss him already.
That is NOT happening. He came to know the truth. He was wrong and passed on his cultish ideas to you all. You will all find out that what you see of the past with eyes of the present is not what it appears to be!
I am so proud of you ex Mormons leaving a cult.
Please learn the definition of a cult. The LDS church is to large for one to be one.
@Chad Gochis i noticed the same thing with Catholics. Most are pretty good people and think the Pope is a good guy even with all the history of the Church and Popes. Especially now with all the kids molested by Priest and Cardinals and the obvious knowledge of the church and its leaders.
@@darinwinn1640 The BITE model disagrees. experts who study cults and help those who leave and reprogram disagree. Mormonism is a cult.
@Chad Gochis There is extensive evidence that shows the Mormon church leadership have intentionally lied for financial control and gain for generations.
@@juneholley1813 cant argue with a idiot. Try looking up definition dingdong. Its to big to be a cult is the first given.
im researching mormonism so this is helpful thanks i have my suspicions
Unless you are using the Holy Ghost you will not find your answers. Being a Latter-Day-Saint is a spiritual experience. If you want the truth you must use the true order of prayer: Ask Heavenly Father, in the name of Jesus Christ, and if you are sincere, you will receive a witness form the Holy Ghost. That's it! Most of these anti-LDS idiots hear something and then repeat it, true or not.
@@geraldhenson6521 after reading your comment I highly recommend watching this video: ua-cam.com/video/ycUvC9s4VYA/v-deo.html
Also, ignoring the truth because it goes against what you believe is just plain ignorant... watch the video
@@geraldhenson6521 i have the holy spirit thanks judge not ok
@@geraldhenson6521 "Most of these anti-LDS idiots hear something and then repeat it, true or not."
says the person not even TRYING to make an argument based on anything other than a "spiritual experience" the last resource of a religion that has been proven to be untrue by every branch of science. no matter that every religion on the planet has given rise to "true" and "confirming' spiritual experiences to its members. unfortunately for you as the population becomes more educated, members see this tactic for the manipulative mind control that it is. too bad Joseph smith for all his prophecies couldn't see the bearer of his destruction coming: the internet.. (aka. information). it's AMAZING what a just a little bit of education can do. thank Elohim!
Your comment on science and needing proof is funny. Every religion can be deemed false.
How does one proof with science or evidence that Christ rose from his tomb and was resurrected? Not one person can attest or proof that. All we have are written stories that also could have been false.
So sure the church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints is easily dismissed as false so agree. But it’s absurd to stop there. What about the next religion and the next? One has to become agnostic or atheist to have piece of mind if needing facts or evidence or needing good doctrine. Just believe in the Bible or the Old Testament or the Koran etc is just as bad as believing Mormonism. Mormons have weird beliefs granted, but from what I’ve seen every religion does and it’s not very settling. I think more people might be better off listening to more practices like karma and mindsets then an actual religion.
Grant, thank you for having the courage to come forward and share your story. I found that when I became truly free to seek inspiration apart from any belief system, I also miraculously felt free to allow others to believe as they will. This feeling of freedom was my validation that my choice to leave the teachings of the LDS church was a correct decision.
Intelligent. Try being lied to your whole life, and see how you feel. You become grateful for men like Grant Palmer.
I am so grateful to Ex- Mormon people for taking the time to reach out to those still lost in Mormonism. Thank you.
One of the best videos i"ve ever seen. So informative in a very truthful way i think.
If we know CHRIST JESUS OF THE BIBLE, THAT HE IS THE WAY, THE TRUTH AND THE LIFE, THAT NO ONE GOES TO THE FATHER, BUT THROUGH JESUS!!! This absolutely eliminates EVERYBODY ELSE from the TRUTH!!! GOD bless these people who comes to know the TRUTH!!!
YES JESUS IS TRUTH AND THE LIGHT. NOTHING MORE NEEDED EXCEPT HIM FOR FOR SURE NOT CULT LIKE BRAINWASHED MORMONS!
I once explained to two kind young men, LDS, in my home, how the biblical texts of the Greek New Testament and the Hebrew old were derived. They had no idea how different this was from what they believed about the origins of the BOM. But when I paused to hear their reaction, I was told that I ought to read the BOM nevertheless and see if I experienced the "burning bosom." This evidently was something they had experienced or at least were told to say.
My Sister is still in it. I pray that the Lord will open her heart and led her out.
This is very strengthening and encouraging to me. I am almost a year out, but my children are still in.
Hello have your children found the truth yet? God bless
Please make more videos like this with very learned members who provide some of the deepest insights.
Thanks for sharing this.
On how he got so many women.... he threatened them with going to hell/him getting slain by angels. So he did not get them to say yes. He tricked them.
some of them were children
"Trickery" & "Deception" is their Origin and Modus Operandi
Power is also an aphrodisiac that can't be discounted. That supposed power being a false illusion (reality) of him being a prophet, though they likely believed it to be true.
Golden tablets, hidden planets, plural marriages, Jesus visited Salt Lake, can they be that silly?
Yes, people believe the hoax....
+ Frank Allen Maybe later, we'll find the Loch Ness Monster in the Great Salt Lake....
+ kevin beck Yes, all of us LOVE a good sequel....
Just as silly as anything in the Bible.
Remember that no one is entirely rational all the time. People who are conditioned to be irrational on a certain topic will nearly always have a blind spot, however rational they may be otherwise. That any Mormon can ever leave Mormonism is only by the grace of God, the LogoS incarnate.
Truly one of the greatest orthodox men that has ever been in the church is Grant Palmer. One of the greatest lectures and speeches that I've ever heard.
Very impressive and well done! Way to go Grant !!!
thank you for sharing. All good :o))
It would be funny if it weren't so sad that people are so gullible and ignorant.
like reading the Bible only and listening to those fake, phony, frauds you Biblonians call paid preachers.
@@geraldhenson6521 stfu
Sandra Jones wrote:
" It would be funny if it weren't so sad that people are so gullible and ignorant. "
Mormons are the victims in this. They aren't gullible and ignorant. They are lost because the father of lies has deceived them. That's how deceptiion works; you don't know it.
The life blood of the Mormon Church is ebbing away. Those of us who have awoken can never again go back to sleep. You will rarely get any decent debate in the defense of Mormonism, but one can only expect personal attacks and labels.
Thanks for leaving on your own...we would have thrown you out anyway.
+John Lee go fuck yourself devil worshiper.
You have overstated your case against the church. We are here to stay and don't give one rip about what you think or say. Just because some ex-LDS deadbeats decide to leave and then post it on youtube you think we are ebbing away. Joseph Smith predicted this a long time ago. A certain number of deadbeats and slag will leave the church. We active LDS have known about it for years. All you are is prophecy fulfilled.
+Gerald Henson .... Ar but you DO care about what is being said. It grinds at you, it affects your testimony. It brings more unanswered questions in you that you are forced to brush away with parrot narrative of bearing your testimony.
I doubt you've watched this video, but you call Grant Palmer, an honest man, a deadbeat.
Grant Palmer passed away without resentment or hatred against the church. But you Mormons all speak vicious vitriol against a good man who speaks truth because it doesn't fit with yours.
You remind me of Joseph Smith who would label the women who refused his sexual advances as "whores".
The Mormon church are closing missions, combining Wards and Stakes, it is cracking. The flood may not happen in my lifetime but it's coming.
You want REAL prophecy?, try Christs prophecy over a con man. False prophets like wolves in sheeps clothing, as William Law, 2nd Counselor to Smith (another honest man demonized by you lot), had stated in his diary.
Mormons hate facts, that's a fact in itself.
@Gerald Henson ... The parroting of the narrative of which you dribble is nothing new to me. You lay claim to THE true church, seizing self righteous high ground by passing a judgement on people who oppose what you believe. You've been indoctrinated to think the MORMON mindset, an indoctrination I am well award of.
Thus you parrot what has been fed into your head for years.
The fact that other religions claim to be THE truth makes your own claim subjective.
All you have to go on is your religious beliefs in spite of facts and historical truth.
So deluded in your self righteousness that you say I'm a tool of the devil.
Wow.. what an ego!!.( If it's up to Christ to say Grant Palmer is a good man or not , then isn't it up to Christ to say whether I'm a tool of the devil or not as well?. See the problem you have now?, it's called "hypocrisy").
You've clearly pointed out the crap that MORMONS have been fed on, how you think and what you REALLY believe. A vitriol of vicious judgment of others who are no longer indoctrinated by filthy blasphemous falsehoods taught by the MORMON church.
MORMONS demonize good men like Grant Palmer, and William Law. And elevate the sick twisted sexual predatory liars like Joseph Smith and Brigham Young.
You hate facts, thus you ignore them and splash your verbal diarrhea by making a judgement on people who have awoken to the MORMON fraud.
Try again...
You have given me such hope for my family. Thank you.
Thanks for the upload
I'm happy to see some of the people get out from darkness.. Glory be to God.. Thank you Jesus..
Grant Palmer is truly a brilliant man ! And he was one of the very best and finest members the LDS church ever had ! They disfellowshipped the wrong guy ! He is a devout believer in Jesus ! I respect him a great deal.
Love this guy. Want his book
just finished watching this video. learned quite a bit I wasn't aware of. can only imagine what is out there on the net.
God bless you for the truth you know. have you noticed the statue down town Salt Lake has his hands reaching out to the bank and back to the temple. ?
31:00 I can sympathize with "being taught to see through the eyes of the mind." in my peak of piousness which was actually quite an amazing time in my life, I perceived angels and I experienced at least two undeniable miracles beyond scientific explanation that to this day, even during this skeptic phase of my life, I will never deny.
I still believe in angels and miracles. It is faith, but not in the LDS church.
Thank you for posting this.
Awesome talk!
Years later this evil man, Smith, is still ruining lives. My sister converted and she now shuns me because I let her know I would never become a Mormon. Families Forever? Yeah, right.
😢
Go get them, let's destroy this false cult!
I'm so glad I found this video
Before being baptized as a convert, I was told I had to agree not to question the church. Not a quote, but it was long ago. I remember asking my future spouse who was born into LDS, you never questioned, thought outside the box, even went to another church? I've had biblical experiences will call them since a child. Things irrelevant to me, some that were, and after joining/baptism, they hadn't gone away but I was keeping journals. I was told by an elder, destroy my journals. The bishop, at that area and another, after we'd moved both stated, "Women can not have visions or prophesies for anyone but their children" and husband and so on up. Mine began as a child. I looked at things different, was so devout, more than my spouse and I realized I wasn't hearing the words of God. but interpretations of man/men. I've yet to visit a service of any church and instead of topic of the day via a quote from scripture be the full story. It's only now, long been out of the church, away from, am I reading and looking for info on history and whys. I've never done anything but it is interesting any time I give my name to a missionary at my door over the years, they don't ever return. Not sure why I'm looking up the truth of mormonism today and after all these years. Some of what is taught and I hadn't learned yet were things I'd dreamed years ago even days ago. Not sure why I feel still such a hard time sharing those things, but for now, I keep it most to myself. Don't believe I'm the only one but to answer the question why don't members today have visions, I'm sure they do and it just isn't told to the rest. I don't think they are testimony to LDS being the one true, they're just visions an for probably for more than those of us that do get them. Unlike the words of men.
The King Benjamin thing is wild
Grant Palmer is one of the greatest LDS type scholars I've ever read. His book Insider's View is brilliant ! it is most logical in a sea of ideas and formations of illogical theories that don't add up ! Grant's book and lectures are truly tipping the scale that the book of mormon is not to be trusted as an ancient book. There's just too much going against it. No hebrew dna in ancient book of mormon so called lands, KJB errors in the BOM. No artifacts in so called BOM lands.
Thanks for your quotes.
Great video
I left the LDS church but sadly my family going back to its origin did not
Your ancestors weep for you.
We also have the 116 missing pages.
thank you for sharing... my friend.
Amazing, you just perfectly described Mormons!!!
I would say mormonism. Mormons are just the victims of this cult
Joseph Smith is the second best cult leader after mohammed.
Again, another idiot who doesnt know what a cult is. If your going to bash a religion its better you dont come across as a moron.
@@darinwinn1640 hi. Maybe you should actually look into Smith and exactly how the whole thing started, and then the next 50 years. Especially the LDS under Brigham Young. It is also interesting to look into the group led by James Strang. Yes, it started out as a Christian based apocalyptic millinealist group and had morphed into a nonchristian cult by thie time Joseph and Hiram were murdered in Carriage.
@@justinmeasday8930 stupid reply. LDS and Strang group is like comparing Catholics and Lutherans. Moronic replys that LDS arent Christian or have their own Jesus. If you dont like it fine but dont create a false narrative.
@@darinwinn1640 you spastic reply is the false narrative. Why so pissy if you're right? 90 percent of the people in the world calling themselves Christian belong to group's that despite secondary differences, share a set of fundamental beliefs. Christianity and Mormanism have different beliefs at the fundamental level, therefore Mormonism is not Christian. An example is Christianity is monotheistic (one God,period)and Mormonism is polytheism. It doesn't get more basic than that, and the fundamental differences go on from there. I have found most LDS know very little reality about the first 60 years of their movement. Don't get too worked up, see you later.
@@justinmeasday8930 just saw this. Again stupid reply. If you read this please look up what a Christian is and if you know Justin explain it. Definition: "A Christian is a someone that follows the teachings of Jesus Christ." Justin's arguments becomes more more moronic when he claims it cant be polytheism because when Jesus is defined as a God and his Father is also defined as a God you have more then one God. Thus Christianity as he defines it doesn't meet his own narrow minded definition.
The real reason Mormons leave the Church?
They can no longer follow Saint'n...
Where can i find the unedited history
I was a freshman at BYU in 1970. From a small town in rural Illinois and not a Mormon, I knew nothing about the Mormonism but was an athlete and had to take Book of Mormon as part of my academic requirements. When I started hearing about what was being taught , it was hard for me to take it seriously at first. Later in the course it just made me angry. I was a "believing Christian" with a Baptist background and I found nothing similar to Christianity in any of it. I loved the friends I made there, but I was appalled by the doctrine being sold and the focus on rules instead of Spirituality.
The point is how easily people can buy in to something so easily seen as unreal and at the same time a legalistic cult.
I was 17 when I got to BYU and transferred to a different college 2000 miles away before the next academic year. 1:22:28
Thanks for not joining the LDS church. You sound too weak and confused to be a Mormon anyway. Here you are...dredging up 53 year-old memories and you're obviously still appalled and angry. I've heard therapy helps. I think you still have unresolved issues with the Mormons. Move on already...geez
I've left the LDS Church and I much appreciated Palmers book ( may he rest in peace) I'm glad I was able to leave no only Mormonism, but religion and theism behind .
if this is all true it takes 1 hour to realize the church is false
Less than that. Once told that Jesus and Satan were brothers, I laughed so hard I nearly wet myself...!
Jeff, you can get ALL audio for the previous talks on our website. Google Exmormonfoundation dot org
What was the name of the paper ...Nauvoo?
If you take out everything that is false you really have nothing left "no redeeming features"...even the good deeds the people do is mostly because they feel forced or threatened by losing status etc. My heart bleeds for these people.
also to the lady at the end, they are not homophobic. Scripture is scripture.
1) "Yahweh, He is God in heaven above and on the earth below; there is no other." Deuteronomy 4:39
WHERE ARE THE MORmON gODS?
(2) "Before Me there was no God formed, And there will be none after Me." Isaiah 43:10
WHEN WAS WERE THE MORmON gODS FORMED?
(3) "'I am the first and I am the last, And there is no God besides Me." Isaiah 44:6
"I am Yahweh, and there is no other; Besides Me there is no God." Isaiah 45:5
DOES MY GOD NOT KNOW THE MORmON gODS?
+dee hee For whatever it's worth, the Hebrews had a whole slew of gods before they settled on the god of war (known as "the lord of hosts").
+Jeremy Nicoll..... They had many titles of the same God which were adjectives but worshipped the one and only true God....FOR WHATEVER IT'S WORTH?
Where is any god?
+rationalguy... There is only one True God...Earth is his footstool.
+Bergen Norway ..IN CASE YOUR SERIOUS?
EL, ELOAH: God "mighty, strong, prominent" (Nehemiah 9:17; Psalm 139:19) - etymologically, El appears to mean “power,” as in “I have the power to harm you” (Genesis 31:29). El is associated with other qualities, such as integrity (Numbers 23:19), jealousy (Deuteronomy 5:9), and compassion (Nehemiah 9:31), but the root idea of “might” remains.
ELOHIM: God “Creator, Mighty and Strong” (Genesis 17:7; Jeremiah 31:33) - the plural form of Eloah, which accommodates the doctrine of the Trinity. From the Bible’s first sentence, the superlative nature of God’s power is evident as God (Elohim) speaks the world into existence (Genesis 1:1).
EL SHADDAI: “God Almighty,” “The Mighty One of Jacob” (Genesis 49:24; Psalm 132:2,5) - speaks to God’s ultimate power over all.
ADONAI: “Lord” (Genesis 15:2; Judges 6:15) - used in place of YHWH, which was thought by the Jews to be too sacred to be uttered by sinful men. In the Old Testament, YHWH is more often used in God’s dealings with His people, while Adonai is used more when He deals with the Gentiles.
YHWH / YAHWEH / JEHOVAH: “LORD” (Deuteronomy 6:4; Daniel 9:14) - strictly speaking, the only proper name for God. Translated in English Bibles “LORD” (all capitals) to distinguish it from Adonai, “Lord.” The revelation of the name is first given to Moses “I Am who I Am” (Exodus 3:14). This name specifies an immediacy, a presence. Yahweh is present, accessible, near to those who call on Him for deliverance (Psalm 107:13), forgiveness (Psalm 25:11) and guidance (Psalm 31:3).
YAHWEH-JIREH: "The Lord Will Provide" (Genesis 22:14) - the name memorialized by Abraham when God provided the ram to be sacrificed in place of Isaac.
YAHWEH-RAPHA: "The Lord Who Heals" (Exodus 15:26) - “I am Jehovah who heals you” both in body and soul. In body, by preserving from and curing diseases, and in soul, by pardoning iniquities.
YAHWEH-NISSI: "The Lord Our Banner" (Exodus 17:15), where banner is understood to be a rallying place. This name commemorates the desert victory over the Amalekites in Exodus 17.
YAHWEH-M'KADDESH: "The Lord Who Sanctifies, Makes Holy" (Leviticus 20:8; Ezekiel 37:28) - God makes it clear that He alone, not the law, can cleanse His people and make them holy.
YAHWEH-SHALOM: "The Lord Our Peace" (Judges 6:24) - the name given by Gideon to the altar he built after the Angel of the Lord assured him he would not die as he thought he would after seeing Him.
YAHWEH-ELOHIM: "LORD God" (Genesis 2:4; Psalm 59:5) - a combination of God’s unique name YHWH and the generic “Lord,” signifying that He is the Lord of Lords.
YAHWEH-TSIDKENU: "The Lord Our Righteousness” (Jeremiah 33:16) - As with YHWH-M’Kaddesh, it is God alone who provides righteousness to man, ultimately in the person of His Son, Jesus Christ, who became sin for us “that we might become the Righteousness of God in Him” (2 Corinthians 5:21).
YAHWEH-ROHI: "The Lord Our Shepherd" (Psalm 23:1) - After David pondered his relationship as a shepherd to his sheep, he realized that was exactly the relationship God had with him, and so he declares, “Yahweh-Rohi is my Shepherd. I shall not want” (Psalm 23:1).
YAHWEH-SHAMMAH: "The Lord Is There” (Ezekiel 48:35) - the name ascribed to Jerusalem and the Temple there, indicating that the once-departed glory of the Lord (Ezekiel 8-11) had returned (Ezekiel 44:1-4).
YAHWEH-SABAOTH: "The Lord of Hosts" (Isaiah 1:24; Psalm 46:7) - Hosts means “hordes,” both of angels and of men. He is Lord of the host of heaven and of the inhabitants of the earth, of Jews and Gentiles, of rich and poor, master and slave. The name is expressive of the majesty, power, and authority of God and shows that He is able to accomplish what He determines to do.
EL ELYON: “Most High" (Deuteronomy 26:19) - derived from the Hebrew root for “go up” or “ascend,” so the implication is of that which is the very highest. El Elyon denotes exaltation and speaks of absolute right to lordship.
EL ROI: "God of Seeing" (Genesis 16:13) - the name ascribed to God by Hagar, alone and desperate in the wilderness after being driven out by Sarah (Genesis 16:1-14). When Hagar met the Angel of the Lord, she realized she had seen God Himself in a theophany. She also realized that El Roi saw her in her distress and testified that He is a God who lives and sees all.
EL-OLAM: "Everlasting God" (Psalm 90:1-3) - God’s nature is without beginning or end, free from all constraints of time, and He contains within Himself the very cause of time itself. “From everlasting to everlasting, You are God.”
EL-GIBHOR: “Mighty God” (Isaiah 9:6) - the name describing the Messiah, Christ Jesus, in this prophetic portion of Isaiah. As a powerful and mighty warrior, the Messiah, the Mighty God, will accomplish the destruction of God’s enemies and rule with a rod of iron (Revelation 19:15).
Six years ago, a High Priest proudly gave a copy of DC 132.
Reading it took me on a journey that led to Mr Palmer. Mr Palmer brought me to study more deeply the church I had been a member of for 70 years.
I no longer believe any of Smiths story. I have not officially removed my name from their roles. I will soon so so as most of my family will do.
While it is natural to be angry when we feel we have been deceived, and we have . . . we need to work on forgiving . . . for anger, judgment and criticism, on either side of the argument, disconnects us from the spirit and the help we need to recover. It takes a lot o courage to face the fact we have been living a lie and I admire those who face it and move on. It is a long painful process, I know, and we need all the spiritual help we can get. I am grateful I have moved out of the LDS box, and now having moved past the anger, can be grateful for what I learned while there. I have learned to forgive the deception, and myself for buying into it. This is the truth that sets me free. Anything not done in love is not of God. Anything that is, is of God. I think it is that simple. Paul implies this in 1 Cor.
+Claudia Nelson On behalf of good Mormons everywhere, let me congratulate you on your exit from the Mormon Church. You saved us the trouble of throwing you out! We're always looking to get rid of the deadwood and misfits anyway. You're too weak and self absorbed to be among us. Have a nice unaccountable life.
+John Lee Dude relax, we are all Gods children and are entitled to chose our own path. If Claudia feels this way she is entitled. I don't agree with her beliefs but we can all discuss what we believe in a civil manner.
+Dale James Just congratulating her...is that a problem?
+Claudia Nelson On behalf of the REAL Church of the Living God, I congratulate you on your decision to leave the Mormon myth. I pray that the Christ of the Bible will reign in your heart as you have faith in Him.
+Robert Allison Nice try...lame ass!
The speaker is background noise, the real start is mouth noises. Very irritating 😠
Is there any way we could get the audio for this?
Jeff Williams
" Is there any way we could get the audio for this? "
I guess 10 years of silence is your answer. Sometimes I sit and type transscripts word for word for the really good videos.
This was fascinating. We attended a Methodist church when I was younger, and it had long struck me that there seem to be a lot of parallels between Methodist practices and beliefs and Mormonism. How interesting that this former Mormon traces so much of the Book of Mormon back to Joseph Smith's association with Methodism.
Joseph Smith could have seen these beings. Satan Himself can appear as a being of light. If Joseph was inviting these evil beings through mysticism and magic then he was a perfect target for satan to use for the purpose of deceiving millions through this false church. 2 Corinthians 11:14 And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.
+Glenda McLachlan
Are you also saying that Paul saw "an angel of light" on the road to Damascus.
I am A Christian and I got that same impression
This is my suspicion
Joseph Smith fails every test of a prophet, but passes the test of a seer. The prophet is messenger of the Most High God, but a seer looks into a very different realm via a way not of God. Warnings abound in the bible of teaching and being taught a different gospel.
Grant Palmer is one of the most brilliant authors that has ever been in the church! A great video indeed ! Truthful truly! A very brilliant scholar ! And in- deed one that brings out truth and not fiction! He is headed in the right direction in the fight for truth ! Of course you can't cover the whole book of mormon and get inside Joseph Smith's head and know every detail of his plagiarism. But as Grant stated about 3/4th was done in his own back yard sort of speak!
Grant is a brilliant author and will be hearlded and being one of the greatest members of the LDS church very similar to Galileo! Though it might take many years when more and more evidence comes out of the fraudulence of the BOM!
thetiler Palmer is no Galileo. His research is flawed, and conclusions are driven by his agenda.
Will just have to agree to disagree :^)
I am having an issue with my posting. Cannot do a paste. Do a google search on "george cobabe fair" where he give a summary of five reviews on Palmer.
I have to say it again. Truly, truly one of the greatest men to have ever graced the doors of the LDS CHURCH ! A GREAT MAN! SPIRITUAL, AND A FOLLOWER OF JESUS IN THE TRUE SENSE OF THE WORD!
thank you for sharing
I think this is great for this video, particularly the parts that say: "That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine", "Let no corrupt communication proceed out of your mouth", "...the old man, which is corrupt according to the deceitful lusts", "...as the Gentiles walk... being alienated from the life of God through the ignorance... because of the blindness of their heart". That's exactly why we contend for the faith against Mormonism
5:50 he makes it to pulpit
He would tell the 14 year olds that if they didn’t let him have his way with them god would be angry at them or that if they did god would be very happy with them. Very similar to the homie up at Waco.
The original Warren Jeffs
thank you for sharing...
I am not a Mormon, and never was. I learned about Mormonism decades ago in college. And I must say that I've always felt compassion for you people. Gradually, I have met more Mormons in real life who have always impressed me as being very sincere and wholesome people. I find this information very important because it is my hope to educate myself more about what it means to leave the Mormon faith. As a Catholic, I have learned my faith through many reputable and consistent teachers over the years. So the films I've seen produced by the LDS Church in a serious way about Joseph Smith, your founder, are quite entertaining.... but blatantly untrue in their content. The challenge for Christians like myself is knowing "how" to help Mormon friends who genuinely believe they are already in the true church of Jesus Christ. To do this in a spirit of Love and Compassion is not always easy. Patience and prayer are important. I want to encourage your community that just because you leave the LDS Church it does NOT mean other Christians will not accept you. We just need your courage to let us help you, if this is what you desire. God bless!
I have a Traumatic Brain Injury. Mormons took away my freedom and hope. They are so hard to get away from!!!
...so is your whining...
@@johnlee1352 6 years later I say thanks for your understanding, LOL!!!
Having a very open mind my spiritual path has been that of comparative religion. I have read Hinduism, Buddhism, Muslim, shamanism of Indigenous people around the world. I have also read Christian history, orthodoxy and otherwise and I must say I learned from them all. It is with this open mind I approached The Book of Mormon and I found that not only was it historically inaccurate but more importantly the Spirit of Life was not within it.
Who was the publisher of William Law’s diary
Love your mormonic style language
The only thing that jumped into and stuck in my head throughout the entire video was 'Wow, Smith was just like Muhammad of Islam, just not as succesful.". These people lacked the strength of character that Jesus Christs had, even to the point of sheer immorality.
I know! "Angel appearing, saying: - All the others are wrong, please write a book and start a new religion"
The resemblance is remarkable..
You are just as bad as all of them. ‘My religion is the best and most true’ etc. You are not getting the point. What do you know about Islam or any other world religion? Monotheism (one God for example as in Judaism) and this idea replaced the worship of many Gods in many different belief systems in that part of the world . Then came Christianity as an iteration in this process of ‘successfulness’ (in some parts of the world). Who are you to say this process stopped with Jesus? It’s only your personal conviction. And to go on about immorality in other religions takes first prize in the hypocrisy competition - think child molesting catholic priests, think grifting evangelical mega churches and the plethora of false prophets multiplying in that particular religious subculture.
I feel so sorry for mormons the devil has them blinded so that they can't see the truth
I would be careful saying stuff like that. Many people rejected the prophets of old times saying things like they are mad or they are possessed of a devil. The pharisees and sadducees themselves condemned Christ for working miracles by the devil. They also condemned the apostles of blasphemy and persecuted them. The people of Rome also persecuted the Christians, one of the reasons being that they thought the Christians were a cult because they did ordinances in private. They didn't understand that it was private because it was sacred. Look it up, it's in the history books. You may not believe that the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints is the true church of Christ, but you better be careful of what you condemn.
Christopher Martin when i was a kid in primary i did a 2.5 minute talk it was called money is the root of all evil this i did when i was 9 i have been out of the mormon church for 38 years and have never looked back until now when the internet and computer technology can pull the records of the court house in palmyra ny and navoo ill. and anyone can see the truth for them selves there are programs run to take apart the bom and to put it back to the books it came out of or any other plagiarized book for that matter there is nothing here from god it is all by men and nothing more
lewis irvine I feel sorry for you since you think that there's even a devil.
Christopher Martin It's ok for someone to exercise their discernment & express concern over whether a church is true or not. You failed to ask Lewis why he believes what he does - so it's wrong to assume he is avoiding truth for secret reasons, like the pharisees.
Erin Mackley Well, I'm only human and imperfect, I will of course fail at some things or even many things. Are you a member of the Church or familiar with it? If not I simply invite you to attend a meeting on Sunday and investigate to see for yourself whether the church is lead by the devil or led by God. I can promise you that you will be uplifted and draw closer to God if you have a real intent to seek for the truth. You will feel the Spirit, who is the testator of all truth. I know that God does live and speaks to HIs children and will impart truth to them if they seek. I know Jesus Christ is my Redeemer and died for my sins because He loves me. I know He has restored His Gospel in the last days to prepare for His coming. I simply invite you and anyone who reads this to see for yourself, to read the Book of Mormon which is another testimony of Jesus Christ, and to attend the Church. I testify that it is the Kingdom of God on earth and is lead by the Savior Himself.
When I first heard about Mormonism in the begining of the story 1 Joseph Smith said he saw God (strike 1 no one can look upon God Moses saw a burning bush) Strike 2 was only Joseph Smith saw the plates and then the "angel" took them back. It never got to the hat but the hat is priceless--I pretend not to know anything about Mormon just to hear about the hat
Are you really this illiterate? Exodus 33:11..."And the LORD spake to Moses FACE TO FACE as a man speaketh unto his friend." Are you stupid? You apparently know nothing about the Bible either...
Fun Fact: Grant Palmer is the voice of Lincoln Loud from the loud house.
Here it is, a year later. I wonder if "John Lee" is still trolling, pretending to be a Mormon and being the absolute opposite of what a Christian is said to be like. Or maybe he really is a Mormon, the kind that gives it a black eye! But even if he were a nice person, which he gives no evidence of, he'd still be wrong. Most Mormons actually are nice people, though thoroughly deluded. As are all folks who believe in any religion.
Oh yea, he's still around, trolling. I tend to believe that, as you wrote "he really is a Mormon, the kind that gives it a black eye!". There are a couple more like him that comes to mind and that's henochparks and Justin ("wise up") Snyder.
+rational guy You've just listed the LDS "Three Stooges"....Lee, Justin and Parks.
The 3 stooges of our time :)
Why I know it's all false: Members should have the right to know where their donated money is allocated and for what purposes, but it is cloaked. They also should have the right to seek out information outside Mormon sources. Clergy should be considered mandatory reporters of abuse, but they aren't. The church should NOT have political influences. The church should not be able to get away with business ventures, have connections to the stock market, and maintain its tax exempt, non-profit status. This is a FOR-profit corporation.
"Members should have the right to know where their donated money is allocated and for what purposes, but it is cloaked."
Your donations were used as follows: 60% to buy 10 rows of bricks for a church building in Norway, 20% to support a family of an ex-soldier in the US whose government had decided to freeze their wages for a while. 10% were used on travel expenses of a stake president who spent all weekend to support your branch, 10% were put on a savings account for tough times to come (and they are even gaining interest - just as the 10 talents mentioned in the bible).
"They also should have the right to seek out information outside Mormon sources." Like watching this video on youtube and reading comments.
"Clergy should be considered mandatory reporters of abuse, but they aren't."
Church handbook 1, section 17: "Church leaders and members should fulfill all legal obligations to report abuse to civil authorities. In some locations, leaders and teachers who work with children and youth are considered “mandated reporters” and must report abuse to legal authorities. Similarly, in many locations, any person who learns of abuse is required to report it to legal authorities."
"The church should NOT have political influences." But Christ is our King. Why not pray for governments to promote peace instead of war?
"The church should not be able to get away with business ventures, have connections to the stock market, and maintain its tax exempt, non-profit status."
How do you think, the church should build meeting houses and temples, distribute money to the needy, feed the hungry, etc, without being organized like a business? Even the laws require an organisation like a church to account for their monies. If it looks to you like a business - fair enough. I'd rather have some capable people handle that. And do you honestly think it would be fair to have your donation taxed again, after it has already been taxed by you? Do you think the church should not have employees to handle all its undertakings. Should those people not be paid? Should people that travel extensively to run church affairs not be reimbursed for their travel cost? How did the early apostles of Christ live? Did not the other saints care for them, make sure they had accomodation and food? Did the saints not look after the travellers' families and provide for them, while the apostles were away? Do you consider allowance and reimbursement as profit?
Another thought: Try to pay out money to those in need, if your pockets are empty. I have seen the church help in many cases that you don't know about, giving freely and without judgement, and without talking about it.
"This is a FOR-profit corporation." Yes, and mankind profits! Actually I think the creation of the world was a for-profit, or better for-benefit, untertaking.
The church should never audit their followers over tithings or ask them to bring in tax returns. If their findings show you owe the church money, they will give them a loan with interest. Really? Wake Up 👀 This is wrong.
I don't care what the church does with the money. That is their stewardship. Mine was to give 1/10th... That's it. And I am blessed because I do that.
@@MrNirom1 cool bro, maybe go find another commenter to troll with your self-righteous garbage?
@@elyssapissa LOL I say the way I feel and I have you to call me self-righteous? You left the church... but you just can't leave it alone. Like you have God's word. Thing is... I do have God's word.
Thomas Furgeson
He raised $225,000 for the field work, incorporated the Foundation (being an attorney), assisted in the initial explorations in Central America and Mexico and has actively directed the affairs of the Foundation since its inception." quote from a religious site.
This is important info. Thanks.
The rest of the story is the true Church.Its apostolic, one, founded by Christ and 2000 years old (the gates of hell have not prevailed against her Matthew 16-18).Do the math.
Then why have so many died at the hands of this church? Murder seems satanic to me. Care to elucidate?