I left the LDS church in 2006. I was asked a single question on my faith by a friend, a Christian. To this day I can’t, for the life of me remember what that question was. My friend asked that I don’t answer at that moment, but to wait and pray and search for the answer. I spent the next 3 days searching and reading and praying. I found tons of info on the internet and an internet site Mormons In Transition (MIT). I had conversations through emails with a few of them and found more and more inconsistencies with the LDS church. Angry and broken I prayed and continued to read and search for the next few days. …Hearing/listening to Ex-Mormons here in Utah is hard. It brings back so much emotion. I am finding it difficult not to stay angry of the LDS church, although I am wholeheartedly grateful for these UA-cam videos.
Searching the Scriptures and praying for TRUTH is a much different experience than a "burning in the bosom" ... And you SHOULD be angry.... the LDS hierarchy absolutely knows all of these things and the lack of evidence and the way they have changed their various doctrines with the times...none of which is honest or transparent in a way that shows a genuine care and concern for a person's soul....
Nearly twenty years gone and here you still are...pathetically bashing a faith you claim to have rejected two decades ago. I've heard therapy helps. I think you still have unresolved issues. After this long you're still angry and broken. Sad.
I served a mission 08-10, and after being out 18 months we were suddenly directed to try to commit our investigators to baptism after the first lesson... I could never do that... started my cognitive dissonance... also the "anti" I had read (just trying to see what kinds of concerns I might hear from ppl) turned out to be true, not just "wicked lies".... so I left a couple weeks after returning home
Thank you Grant Palmer! You are an example to us all. After 28 years, a mission, temple marriage, working for LDS for 5 years, all I have is a hand full of good memories and a mountain of anxiety, anger, distrust, cognitive dissonance, etc... I just got tired of being told I was wrong by people who know less than I do, but as the bishop told me point blank to justify staying in the church, "ignorance is bliss"
I don't think the LDS church would have the amount of followers it has right now if the internet existed many years ago. More will leave over time. I just don't understand how the finances are not for public viewing by this church. Tithing is investment money for LDS Corp Inc not for tithing.
You’re right, they would have more. Look how shitty society has gotten since the internet. We have stupid kids in school as furries, going in litter boxes and not responding to questions from teachers because furries don’t talk.
It’s 2am and I’ve just taken about 10 pages of notes on this talk and my mind is blown--one of those little mind field explosions you mentioned--but THANK YOU!!!!! I left about 4 years ago all because of an unworthy bishop and now your words make me so very sure I did the right thing!!! I’m glad I didn’t waste more time! I’m ordering your book!
Former member here myself. Once I started to research the lack of archeological and DNA evidence in for the book of Mormon, I knew it was time to leave. I am now closer to Christ.
I found this illuminating and interesting. Thankyou for doing this for us. I have left the church, after 40 years. I was appalled at what I had been in for those 40 years.
@@sarak6860It didn't happen against God's will. It wasn't a waste. Our thoughts aren't His thoughts, and His ways are higher than our ways. Have faith in Him that this was neccesary for His will and pleasure. Nothing works against Him, all things glorify Him in the end, I believe.
I also thought the church was true, and I also didn't like it. I experienced years of depression that started to lift after reading unedited church history. It is amazing how living a repressed life can influence mental health.
Grant Palmer said that the Egyptologist's were right! Although the You Tube video titled ''Book of Abraham Debunks anti-LDS Lies'' in the YEAR 2014 DEBUNKED ALL OF THAT ANTI-BOOK OF ABRAHAM INFO (books, websites, You Tube videos) though!
@Janette Johnson Google ''Book of Abraham debunks anti-LDS Lies You Tube'' It's thee video that debunked Robert Ritner and the other Egyptologist's. How? Proper interpretation of the translation process of the Book of Abraham. It kind of proves that Grant Palmer on the above You Tube video is ludicrous on his anti-Book of Abraham attack, in other words. As all anti-Book of Abraham efforts, books, You Tube videos, sites, from the Egyptologist's and the anti-Mormon Christian's (self addressed Christians) is based on false idiotic assumptions on translation.
Grant Palmer, thee Egyptologist's, thee anti-Mormon Christians, the remainder have been proven to be jackasses, in other words. As ALL anti-Book of Abraham information, anti-Book of Abraham You Tube videos for example, is based on false idiotic assumptions on the translation process of the Book of Abraham from Joseph Smith. That video that I told you you about in my last comment proves it. Proves it by demonstrating proper INTERPRETATION of the translation process of the Book of Abraham. That video followed shortly after a silent prayer to God in the year 2014 for some kind of new insight on this Book of Abraham subject. By the way, that video is video 1 of 10. I wouldn't suggest listening to the anti-Mormon information from the likes of Grant Palmer on the above You Tube video, they're not a very honest people.
Richard Holmes You come across as increasingly desperate and paranoid. What are you so afraid of? Finding out that Grant Palmer is telling the truth? Pathetic.
It does indeed! Because so many times, story after story I've heard how ex mormons have lost family and friends. I certainly did. But, the rewards for leaving Mormonism and losing much is gaining Jesus!! God bless Maxwell!
The hardest part of leaving Mormonism is learning that words and terms mean very different things to people like me who grew up in the LDS church and those who are Bible-based Christians. It has been a painful and difficult journey of 40 years.
The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints is the church of Christ. When it is the truth people hate truths. We still love you brothers and sisters. We don't retaliate because when Jesus Christ did not retaliate his enemies. Why don't you leave the church and not bad mouth it????? The guilt is not easy to live with. God sees everything and his work shall move forward as evidently shows in the growth of the gospel in the four corners of the world. Thank you.
As a former and active LDS member, I came to the same understanding as Grant Palmer. And like an onion, layer by layer can be stripped away resulting in nothing left but tears. The seer stones, the method JS used to "translate" the BOM, the Kirtland bank experience ending with JS becoming a fugitive, the Missouri experience, Nauvoo, polygamy, etc. You can see how JS became what he cautioned against, once a man obtains a bit of authority he begins to exercise unrighteous dominion. But it was how JS treated his closest friends when they rejected polygamy that is most telling...
Brother Palmers study and accounts of Joseph Smith is very disturbing. He really shed the light on the dark personality of what Joseph Smith really was.
Joshua Casey Actually, nobody HAS to perform anything. We all have agency. Can we be honest about this question? The Bible has MUCH to say about faith and works. Parts of it APPEAR to be in conflict with each other but is clarified upon careful examination, in context. For example, he was once asked Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life? (Matt 18:16). His answer was simply to keep the commandments. 1 Jn is full of references necessitating works as a part of salvation. The NT is full of references of things we are commanded to DO - which would have been unnecessary if all we needed to do was to sit back and do nothing. And Luther actually advocated removing several books from the Canon, including James because of its emphasis on works. Clearly, there are parts of the Bible that indicate that what is needed is to have faith in Christ without the deeds of the law (Rom 3:27) or that man is not justified by the works of the law (Gal 2:16). The LDS view is that "the law" that is referred to, is simply the law of Moses, which was fulfilled in Christ. Further, we believe that it is ONLY in Christ that we are saved, after all we can do (2 Ne 25:23). Finally, even the act of believing is something we either do or don't do. Belief is, very much, a work. And all of our works are a natural result of our faith.
unirrational, the Mormon view is that it is only in Christ we are saved after all we can do? What if we don't do everything we can possibly do? Who among us does? Hear me out, obedience is important. But I don't strive to keep the commandments to gain eternal glory; I try to keep them because it's the wish of someone who gave their life for me. Also, no man is to judge how well I keep the commandments. Just like I'm not to judge anyone else.
@@johnlee1352 whose the weak one? the people who face the realities of the FARSE that is LDS and leave or someone like you who is either just believing whatever someone has told you that you don't care to find out for yourself or you're just too prideful to admit that you've been wrong or duped.... there is no shame in admiting to that... it's your ETERNITY that's at stake!! I will pray for you♥︎
@@Standing.W.Israel OR... I'm right and you're a weak idiot...the possibilities are endless! Always glad to be the subject of prayer, though I suspect my best interests will not be at the fore. If you ever were LDS, thanks for leaving so we didn't have to throw you out. If you never were, thanks for staying out.
I, like most Mormons, assumed the "good feelings" were a confirmation of Mormonism--until I realized that those EXACT FEELINGS showed up when I sang the National Anthem, read "Old Yeller", saw the movie "PS I Love You" and read "Twas The Night Before Christmas". Were my thrilling and tingly and heart warming, burning in the bosom feelings reading "Twas The Night Before Christmas" a confirmation that Santa Claus was REAL or true?? Paul Dunn (Qof70) was a great story teller. THRILLING! ALL a lie!.
's because you were never taught the difference between emotions and the feeling of the spirit. the church doctrine is actually true but you and others really never were taught and seem to be gullible. Because you finally learned to think you think its not true however imo you haven't thought far enough and that is why. Yes, you can get warm feeling from a lot of things but the light you can't get from it and the gift of the Holy ghost you can't. you can feel the HOly ghost but not have it has a constanst companion and there is a difference. and you need to read the book Faith crisi by the stoddards. I haven't needed it but many others seem to because typical people mormon aren't familiar with con men and are book smart but with out critical question thinking. and this guy says this and some of them eat it up. if you don't believe its not true why stay?
@@bobbyc.1111 insulting and belittling people is certainly the way to bring them back. “Bobby, you’re a moron for not critically thinking and just ‘feeling’ that something is true.” You’re not following the great commandments. You’re being an asshole. And if you really want to bring people unto Christ, stop attacking and bullying and belittling the “lost sheep.”
Power is also an aphrodisiac that can't be discounted. That supposed power being a false illusion (reality) of him being a prophet, though they likely believed it to be true.
You can believe almost anything if you put your mind to it. I now prefer reason over feelings when it comes to beliefs, though. I don't blame those who think the BOM is true or do I think they're stupid. They've just followed "feelings" instead of reason. I happen to value truth more than loyalty. I left Mormonism because of that. You don't find truth by feelings. Logic and evidence may lead to uncomfortable truths and may not be as pleasant as deluding oneself, but I prefer it. If you've got to tell yourself fairy tales to be happy, go for it.
+rationalguy On behalf of good Mormons everywhere, let me congratulate you on your exit from the Mormon Church. You saved us the trouble of throwing you out! We're always looking to get rid of the deadwood and misfits anyway. You're too weak and self absorbed to be among us. Have a nice unaccountable life.
+John Lee What a nasty little mormon you are..... "glad you left"? What an impressive Christ -like love you have for ex-members! You loveless hard hearted hypocrite. Many thanks for showing a perfect example of the real inside attitudes of your fake religion.
Unless you are using the Holy Ghost you will not find your answers. Being a Latter-Day-Saint is a spiritual experience. If you want the truth you must use the true order of prayer: Ask Heavenly Father, in the name of Jesus Christ, and if you are sincere, you will receive a witness form the Holy Ghost. That's it! Most of these anti-LDS idiots hear something and then repeat it, true or not.
@@geraldhenson6521 after reading your comment I highly recommend watching this video: ua-cam.com/video/ycUvC9s4VYA/v-deo.html Also, ignoring the truth because it goes against what you believe is just plain ignorant... watch the video
@@geraldhenson6521 "Most of these anti-LDS idiots hear something and then repeat it, true or not." says the person not even TRYING to make an argument based on anything other than a "spiritual experience" the last resource of a religion that has been proven to be untrue by every branch of science. no matter that every religion on the planet has given rise to "true" and "confirming' spiritual experiences to its members. unfortunately for you as the population becomes more educated, members see this tactic for the manipulative mind control that it is. too bad Joseph smith for all his prophecies couldn't see the bearer of his destruction coming: the internet.. (aka. information). it's AMAZING what a just a little bit of education can do. thank Elohim!
Your comment on science and needing proof is funny. Every religion can be deemed false. How does one proof with science or evidence that Christ rose from his tomb and was resurrected? Not one person can attest or proof that. All we have are written stories that also could have been false. So sure the church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints is easily dismissed as false so agree. But it’s absurd to stop there. What about the next religion and the next? One has to become agnostic or atheist to have piece of mind if needing facts or evidence or needing good doctrine. Just believe in the Bible or the Old Testament or the Koran etc is just as bad as believing Mormonism. Mormons have weird beliefs granted, but from what I’ve seen every religion does and it’s not very settling. I think more people might be better off listening to more practices like karma and mindsets then an actual religion.
@Chad Gochis i noticed the same thing with Catholics. Most are pretty good people and think the Pope is a good guy even with all the history of the Church and Popes. Especially now with all the kids molested by Priest and Cardinals and the obvious knowledge of the church and its leaders.
@Chad Gochis There is extensive evidence that shows the Mormon church leadership have intentionally lied for financial control and gain for generations.
If we know CHRIST JESUS OF THE BIBLE, THAT HE IS THE WAY, THE TRUTH AND THE LIFE, THAT NO ONE GOES TO THE FATHER, BUT THROUGH JESUS!!! This absolutely eliminates EVERYBODY ELSE from the TRUTH!!! GOD bless these people who comes to know the TRUTH!!!
I once explained to two kind young men, LDS, in my home, how the biblical texts of the Greek New Testament and the Hebrew old were derived. They had no idea how different this was from what they believed about the origins of the BOM. But when I paused to hear their reaction, I was told that I ought to read the BOM nevertheless and see if I experienced the "burning bosom." This evidently was something they had experienced or at least were told to say.
I think they are amazing too: Believing in gold plates, Abraham's writings turning up in America, dark skin being a sign of God's displeasure, travelling to other planets at will (yes one of the prophets thought he could do this) Quakers living on the moon, men living on the sun, polygamy, etc etc. And it's even more amazing that people can still believe in these men.
Sandra Jones wrote: " It would be funny if it weren't so sad that people are so gullible and ignorant. " Mormons are the victims in this. They aren't gullible and ignorant. They are lost because the father of lies has deceived them. That's how deceptiion works; you don't know it.
I left the [LDS] church in 1991. I just couldn’t accept the wholesomeness of Joseph Smith and the BoM any longer. Living through the whole Salamander Letter scandal while living in Utah was a huge ah-ha moment. Plus, Mormons aren’t very Christian…at least they weren’t back then. I have been so much happier and closer to Jesus since leaving the LDS church and moving out of Utah.
Joseph Smith could have seen these beings. Satan Himself can appear as a being of light. If Joseph was inviting these evil beings through mysticism and magic then he was a perfect target for satan to use for the purpose of deceiving millions through this false church. 2 Corinthians 11:14 And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.
Joseph Smith fails every test of a prophet, but passes the test of a seer. The prophet is messenger of the Most High God, but a seer looks into a very different realm via a way not of God. Warnings abound in the bible of teaching and being taught a different gospel.
Grant, thank you for having the courage to come forward and share your story. I found that when I became truly free to seek inspiration apart from any belief system, I also miraculously felt free to allow others to believe as they will. This feeling of freedom was my validation that my choice to leave the teachings of the LDS church was a correct decision.
When I first heard about Mormonism in the begining of the story 1 Joseph Smith said he saw God (strike 1 no one can look upon God Moses saw a burning bush) Strike 2 was only Joseph Smith saw the plates and then the "angel" took them back. It never got to the hat but the hat is priceless--I pretend not to know anything about Mormon just to hear about the hat
Are you really this illiterate? Exodus 33:11..."And the LORD spake to Moses FACE TO FACE as a man speaketh unto his friend." Are you stupid? You apparently know nothing about the Bible either...
Years later this evil man, Smith, is still ruining lives. My sister converted and she now shuns me because I let her know I would never become a Mormon. Families Forever? Yeah, right.
The life blood of the Mormon Church is ebbing away. Those of us who have awoken can never again go back to sleep. You will rarely get any decent debate in the defense of Mormonism, but one can only expect personal attacks and labels.
You have overstated your case against the church. We are here to stay and don't give one rip about what you think or say. Just because some ex-LDS deadbeats decide to leave and then post it on youtube you think we are ebbing away. Joseph Smith predicted this a long time ago. A certain number of deadbeats and slag will leave the church. We active LDS have known about it for years. All you are is prophecy fulfilled.
+Gerald Henson .... Ar but you DO care about what is being said. It grinds at you, it affects your testimony. It brings more unanswered questions in you that you are forced to brush away with parrot narrative of bearing your testimony. I doubt you've watched this video, but you call Grant Palmer, an honest man, a deadbeat. Grant Palmer passed away without resentment or hatred against the church. But you Mormons all speak vicious vitriol against a good man who speaks truth because it doesn't fit with yours. You remind me of Joseph Smith who would label the women who refused his sexual advances as "whores". The Mormon church are closing missions, combining Wards and Stakes, it is cracking. The flood may not happen in my lifetime but it's coming. You want REAL prophecy?, try Christs prophecy over a con man. False prophets like wolves in sheeps clothing, as William Law, 2nd Counselor to Smith (another honest man demonized by you lot), had stated in his diary. Mormons hate facts, that's a fact in itself.
@Gerald Henson ... The parroting of the narrative of which you dribble is nothing new to me. You lay claim to THE true church, seizing self righteous high ground by passing a judgement on people who oppose what you believe. You've been indoctrinated to think the MORMON mindset, an indoctrination I am well award of. Thus you parrot what has been fed into your head for years. The fact that other religions claim to be THE truth makes your own claim subjective. All you have to go on is your religious beliefs in spite of facts and historical truth. So deluded in your self righteousness that you say I'm a tool of the devil. Wow.. what an ego!!.( If it's up to Christ to say Grant Palmer is a good man or not , then isn't it up to Christ to say whether I'm a tool of the devil or not as well?. See the problem you have now?, it's called "hypocrisy"). You've clearly pointed out the crap that MORMONS have been fed on, how you think and what you REALLY believe. A vitriol of vicious judgment of others who are no longer indoctrinated by filthy blasphemous falsehoods taught by the MORMON church. MORMONS demonize good men like Grant Palmer, and William Law. And elevate the sick twisted sexual predatory liars like Joseph Smith and Brigham Young. You hate facts, thus you ignore them and splash your verbal diarrhea by making a judgement on people who have awoken to the MORMON fraud. Try again...
Yes he was persecuted and hounded--not because of his faith, but because of his ACTIONS!--snubbing his nose at State authorities, marrying little girls, marrying other men's wives, destroying a printing press, his Kirtland bank fraud, hitting on local women and boasting of his "holy" works. His treatment (except for murder) was treatment ANY con man deserves who tries pulling the wool over the eyes of the public. He DID NOT deserve to be murdered. I for one wish he had lived to stand trial.
Remember that no one is entirely rational all the time. People who are conditioned to be irrational on a certain topic will nearly always have a blind spot, however rational they may be otherwise. That any Mormon can ever leave Mormonism is only by the grace of God, the LogoS incarnate.
1) "Yahweh, He is God in heaven above and on the earth below; there is no other." Deuteronomy 4:39 WHERE ARE THE MORmON gODS? (2) "Before Me there was no God formed, And there will be none after Me." Isaiah 43:10 WHEN WAS WERE THE MORmON gODS FORMED? (3) "'I am the first and I am the last, And there is no God besides Me." Isaiah 44:6 "I am Yahweh, and there is no other; Besides Me there is no God." Isaiah 45:5 DOES MY GOD NOT KNOW THE MORmON gODS?
+Bergen Norway ..IN CASE YOUR SERIOUS? EL, ELOAH: God "mighty, strong, prominent" (Nehemiah 9:17; Psalm 139:19) - etymologically, El appears to mean “power,” as in “I have the power to harm you” (Genesis 31:29). El is associated with other qualities, such as integrity (Numbers 23:19), jealousy (Deuteronomy 5:9), and compassion (Nehemiah 9:31), but the root idea of “might” remains. ELOHIM: God “Creator, Mighty and Strong” (Genesis 17:7; Jeremiah 31:33) - the plural form of Eloah, which accommodates the doctrine of the Trinity. From the Bible’s first sentence, the superlative nature of God’s power is evident as God (Elohim) speaks the world into existence (Genesis 1:1). EL SHADDAI: “God Almighty,” “The Mighty One of Jacob” (Genesis 49:24; Psalm 132:2,5) - speaks to God’s ultimate power over all. ADONAI: “Lord” (Genesis 15:2; Judges 6:15) - used in place of YHWH, which was thought by the Jews to be too sacred to be uttered by sinful men. In the Old Testament, YHWH is more often used in God’s dealings with His people, while Adonai is used more when He deals with the Gentiles. YHWH / YAHWEH / JEHOVAH: “LORD” (Deuteronomy 6:4; Daniel 9:14) - strictly speaking, the only proper name for God. Translated in English Bibles “LORD” (all capitals) to distinguish it from Adonai, “Lord.” The revelation of the name is first given to Moses “I Am who I Am” (Exodus 3:14). This name specifies an immediacy, a presence. Yahweh is present, accessible, near to those who call on Him for deliverance (Psalm 107:13), forgiveness (Psalm 25:11) and guidance (Psalm 31:3). YAHWEH-JIREH: "The Lord Will Provide" (Genesis 22:14) - the name memorialized by Abraham when God provided the ram to be sacrificed in place of Isaac. YAHWEH-RAPHA: "The Lord Who Heals" (Exodus 15:26) - “I am Jehovah who heals you” both in body and soul. In body, by preserving from and curing diseases, and in soul, by pardoning iniquities. YAHWEH-NISSI: "The Lord Our Banner" (Exodus 17:15), where banner is understood to be a rallying place. This name commemorates the desert victory over the Amalekites in Exodus 17. YAHWEH-M'KADDESH: "The Lord Who Sanctifies, Makes Holy" (Leviticus 20:8; Ezekiel 37:28) - God makes it clear that He alone, not the law, can cleanse His people and make them holy. YAHWEH-SHALOM: "The Lord Our Peace" (Judges 6:24) - the name given by Gideon to the altar he built after the Angel of the Lord assured him he would not die as he thought he would after seeing Him. YAHWEH-ELOHIM: "LORD God" (Genesis 2:4; Psalm 59:5) - a combination of God’s unique name YHWH and the generic “Lord,” signifying that He is the Lord of Lords. YAHWEH-TSIDKENU: "The Lord Our Righteousness” (Jeremiah 33:16) - As with YHWH-M’Kaddesh, it is God alone who provides righteousness to man, ultimately in the person of His Son, Jesus Christ, who became sin for us “that we might become the Righteousness of God in Him” (2 Corinthians 5:21). YAHWEH-ROHI: "The Lord Our Shepherd" (Psalm 23:1) - After David pondered his relationship as a shepherd to his sheep, he realized that was exactly the relationship God had with him, and so he declares, “Yahweh-Rohi is my Shepherd. I shall not want” (Psalm 23:1). YAHWEH-SHAMMAH: "The Lord Is There” (Ezekiel 48:35) - the name ascribed to Jerusalem and the Temple there, indicating that the once-departed glory of the Lord (Ezekiel 8-11) had returned (Ezekiel 44:1-4). YAHWEH-SABAOTH: "The Lord of Hosts" (Isaiah 1:24; Psalm 46:7) - Hosts means “hordes,” both of angels and of men. He is Lord of the host of heaven and of the inhabitants of the earth, of Jews and Gentiles, of rich and poor, master and slave. The name is expressive of the majesty, power, and authority of God and shows that He is able to accomplish what He determines to do. EL ELYON: “Most High" (Deuteronomy 26:19) - derived from the Hebrew root for “go up” or “ascend,” so the implication is of that which is the very highest. El Elyon denotes exaltation and speaks of absolute right to lordship. EL ROI: "God of Seeing" (Genesis 16:13) - the name ascribed to God by Hagar, alone and desperate in the wilderness after being driven out by Sarah (Genesis 16:1-14). When Hagar met the Angel of the Lord, she realized she had seen God Himself in a theophany. She also realized that El Roi saw her in her distress and testified that He is a God who lives and sees all. EL-OLAM: "Everlasting God" (Psalm 90:1-3) - God’s nature is without beginning or end, free from all constraints of time, and He contains within Himself the very cause of time itself. “From everlasting to everlasting, You are God.” EL-GIBHOR: “Mighty God” (Isaiah 9:6) - the name describing the Messiah, Christ Jesus, in this prophetic portion of Isaiah. As a powerful and mighty warrior, the Messiah, the Mighty God, will accomplish the destruction of God’s enemies and rule with a rod of iron (Revelation 19:15).
Six years ago, a High Priest proudly gave a copy of DC 132. Reading it took me on a journey that led to Mr Palmer. Mr Palmer brought me to study more deeply the church I had been a member of for 70 years. I no longer believe any of Smiths story. I have not officially removed my name from their roles. I will soon so so as most of my family will do.
That is NOT happening. He came to know the truth. He was wrong and passed on his cultish ideas to you all. You will all find out that what you see of the past with eyes of the present is not what it appears to be!
I was a freshman at BYU in 1970. From a small town in rural Illinois and not a Mormon, I knew nothing about the Mormonism but was an athlete and had to take Book of Mormon as part of my academic requirements. When I started hearing about what was being taught , it was hard for me to take it seriously at first. Later in the course it just made me angry. I was a "believing Christian" with a Baptist background and I found nothing similar to Christianity in any of it. I loved the friends I made there, but I was appalled by the doctrine being sold and the focus on rules instead of Spirituality. The point is how easily people can buy in to something so easily seen as unreal and at the same time a legalistic cult. I was 17 when I got to BYU and transferred to a different college 2000 miles away before the next academic year. 1:22:28
Thanks for not joining the LDS church. You sound too weak and confused to be a Mormon anyway. Here you are...dredging up 53 year-old memories and you're obviously still appalled and angry. I've heard therapy helps. I think you still have unresolved issues with the Mormons. Move on already...geez
Before being baptized as a convert, I was told I had to agree not to question the church. Not a quote, but it was long ago. I remember asking my future spouse who was born into LDS, you never questioned, thought outside the box, even went to another church? I've had biblical experiences will call them since a child. Things irrelevant to me, some that were, and after joining/baptism, they hadn't gone away but I was keeping journals. I was told by an elder, destroy my journals. The bishop, at that area and another, after we'd moved both stated, "Women can not have visions or prophesies for anyone but their children" and husband and so on up. Mine began as a child. I looked at things different, was so devout, more than my spouse and I realized I wasn't hearing the words of God. but interpretations of man/men. I've yet to visit a service of any church and instead of topic of the day via a quote from scripture be the full story. It's only now, long been out of the church, away from, am I reading and looking for info on history and whys. I've never done anything but it is interesting any time I give my name to a missionary at my door over the years, they don't ever return. Not sure why I'm looking up the truth of mormonism today and after all these years. Some of what is taught and I hadn't learned yet were things I'd dreamed years ago even days ago. Not sure why I feel still such a hard time sharing those things, but for now, I keep it most to myself. Don't believe I'm the only one but to answer the question why don't members today have visions, I'm sure they do and it just isn't told to the rest. I don't think they are testimony to LDS being the one true, they're just visions an for probably for more than those of us that do get them. Unlike the words of men.
I am not a Mormon, and never was. I learned about Mormonism decades ago in college. And I must say that I've always felt compassion for you people. Gradually, I have met more Mormons in real life who have always impressed me as being very sincere and wholesome people. I find this information very important because it is my hope to educate myself more about what it means to leave the Mormon faith. As a Catholic, I have learned my faith through many reputable and consistent teachers over the years. So the films I've seen produced by the LDS Church in a serious way about Joseph Smith, your founder, are quite entertaining.... but blatantly untrue in their content. The challenge for Christians like myself is knowing "how" to help Mormon friends who genuinely believe they are already in the true church of Jesus Christ. To do this in a spirit of Love and Compassion is not always easy. Patience and prayer are important. I want to encourage your community that just because you leave the LDS Church it does NOT mean other Christians will not accept you. We just need your courage to let us help you, if this is what you desire. God bless!
@@darinwinn1640 hi. Maybe you should actually look into Smith and exactly how the whole thing started, and then the next 50 years. Especially the LDS under Brigham Young. It is also interesting to look into the group led by James Strang. Yes, it started out as a Christian based apocalyptic millinealist group and had morphed into a nonchristian cult by thie time Joseph and Hiram were murdered in Carriage.
@@justinmeasday8930 stupid reply. LDS and Strang group is like comparing Catholics and Lutherans. Moronic replys that LDS arent Christian or have their own Jesus. If you dont like it fine but dont create a false narrative.
@@darinwinn1640 you spastic reply is the false narrative. Why so pissy if you're right? 90 percent of the people in the world calling themselves Christian belong to group's that despite secondary differences, share a set of fundamental beliefs. Christianity and Mormanism have different beliefs at the fundamental level, therefore Mormonism is not Christian. An example is Christianity is monotheistic (one God,period)and Mormonism is polytheism. It doesn't get more basic than that, and the fundamental differences go on from there. I have found most LDS know very little reality about the first 60 years of their movement. Don't get too worked up, see you later.
@@justinmeasday8930 just saw this. Again stupid reply. If you read this please look up what a Christian is and if you know Justin explain it. Definition: "A Christian is a someone that follows the teachings of Jesus Christ." Justin's arguments becomes more more moronic when he claims it cant be polytheism because when Jesus is defined as a God and his Father is also defined as a God you have more then one God. Thus Christianity as he defines it doesn't meet his own narrow minded definition.
I left October of 2021! It has been a hard journey to except you were lied to by people who claim to be followers of Christ. But to know him now and understand Grace is beyond amazing!
If you take out everything that is false you really have nothing left "no redeeming features"...even the good deeds the people do is mostly because they feel forced or threatened by losing status etc. My heart bleeds for these people.
Truly one of the greatest orthodox men that has ever been in the church is Grant Palmer. One of the greatest lectures and speeches that I've ever heard. Very impressive and well done! Way to go Grant !!!
I praise the Almighty God for each person I here that comes out of that church brings tears of joy and I thank God for you, each one of you, that have the courage and Faith in Christ to stand up and share your love and faith. I pray that each Mormon member would see the love in the way that you bring and share the evidence of the fraud of Joseph Smith. God will always bring success in your service to the Almighty and Faith in His Son Christ Jesus. I'm still working on my Brother in law and his family. They've done a bang up job on his brain washing but all things are possible with God. I love you all.
+GodfatherInOhio On behalf of Mormons everywhere, may I congratulate you on your exit from the church 25 years ago. We're always looking to get rid of our deadwood and misfits. You're obviously not strong enough. Thank you for clearing out so we didn't have to do it. Have a nice unaccountable life.
+Randy Crager Glad to hear that you understand the myth that is Mormonism. Smith was in EVERY sense a fraud. No one who truly believes the Bible would believe Smith and company....
Robert, Mormonism is truly based upon "Joseph's Myth". But it astounds me that one man could have such a great impact over the centuries in building up such a false church. God bless you brother!
Grant Palmer is truly a brilliant man ! And he was one of the very best and finest members the LDS church ever had ! They disfellowshipped the wrong guy ! He is a devout believer in Jesus ! I respect him a great deal.
To hear that Mormon “historians” are in leadership positions at University of Utah is very concerning. That’s the kind of stuff that gives the public reasons to distrust academia. And in this case, justifiably.
31:00 I can sympathize with "being taught to see through the eyes of the mind." in my peak of piousness which was actually quite an amazing time in my life, I perceived angels and I experienced at least two undeniable miracles beyond scientific explanation that to this day, even during this skeptic phase of my life, I will never deny.
Grant Palmer is one of the greatest LDS type scholars I've ever read. His book Insider's View is brilliant ! it is most logical in a sea of ideas and formations of illogical theories that don't add up ! Grant's book and lectures are truly tipping the scale that the book of mormon is not to be trusted as an ancient book. There's just too much going against it. No hebrew dna in ancient book of mormon so called lands, KJB errors in the BOM. No artifacts in so called BOM lands.
Why I know it's all false: Members should have the right to know where their donated money is allocated and for what purposes, but it is cloaked. They also should have the right to seek out information outside Mormon sources. Clergy should be considered mandatory reporters of abuse, but they aren't. The church should NOT have political influences. The church should not be able to get away with business ventures, have connections to the stock market, and maintain its tax exempt, non-profit status. This is a FOR-profit corporation.
"Members should have the right to know where their donated money is allocated and for what purposes, but it is cloaked." Your donations were used as follows: 60% to buy 10 rows of bricks for a church building in Norway, 20% to support a family of an ex-soldier in the US whose government had decided to freeze their wages for a while. 10% were used on travel expenses of a stake president who spent all weekend to support your branch, 10% were put on a savings account for tough times to come (and they are even gaining interest - just as the 10 talents mentioned in the bible). "They also should have the right to seek out information outside Mormon sources." Like watching this video on youtube and reading comments. "Clergy should be considered mandatory reporters of abuse, but they aren't." Church handbook 1, section 17: "Church leaders and members should fulfill all legal obligations to report abuse to civil authorities. In some locations, leaders and teachers who work with children and youth are considered “mandated reporters” and must report abuse to legal authorities. Similarly, in many locations, any person who learns of abuse is required to report it to legal authorities." "The church should NOT have political influences." But Christ is our King. Why not pray for governments to promote peace instead of war? "The church should not be able to get away with business ventures, have connections to the stock market, and maintain its tax exempt, non-profit status." How do you think, the church should build meeting houses and temples, distribute money to the needy, feed the hungry, etc, without being organized like a business? Even the laws require an organisation like a church to account for their monies. If it looks to you like a business - fair enough. I'd rather have some capable people handle that. And do you honestly think it would be fair to have your donation taxed again, after it has already been taxed by you? Do you think the church should not have employees to handle all its undertakings. Should those people not be paid? Should people that travel extensively to run church affairs not be reimbursed for their travel cost? How did the early apostles of Christ live? Did not the other saints care for them, make sure they had accomodation and food? Did the saints not look after the travellers' families and provide for them, while the apostles were away? Do you consider allowance and reimbursement as profit? Another thought: Try to pay out money to those in need, if your pockets are empty. I have seen the church help in many cases that you don't know about, giving freely and without judgement, and without talking about it. "This is a FOR-profit corporation." Yes, and mankind profits! Actually I think the creation of the world was a for-profit, or better for-benefit, untertaking.
The church should never audit their followers over tithings or ask them to bring in tax returns. If their findings show you owe the church money, they will give them a loan with interest. Really? Wake Up 👀 This is wrong.
@@elyssapissa LOL I say the way I feel and I have you to call me self-righteous? You left the church... but you just can't leave it alone. Like you have God's word. Thing is... I do have God's word.
While it is natural to be angry when we feel we have been deceived, and we have . . . we need to work on forgiving . . . for anger, judgment and criticism, on either side of the argument, disconnects us from the spirit and the help we need to recover. It takes a lot o courage to face the fact we have been living a lie and I admire those who face it and move on. It is a long painful process, I know, and we need all the spiritual help we can get. I am grateful I have moved out of the LDS box, and now having moved past the anger, can be grateful for what I learned while there. I have learned to forgive the deception, and myself for buying into it. This is the truth that sets me free. Anything not done in love is not of God. Anything that is, is of God. I think it is that simple. Paul implies this in 1 Cor.
+Claudia Nelson On behalf of good Mormons everywhere, let me congratulate you on your exit from the Mormon Church. You saved us the trouble of throwing you out! We're always looking to get rid of the deadwood and misfits anyway. You're too weak and self absorbed to be among us. Have a nice unaccountable life.
+John Lee Dude relax, we are all Gods children and are entitled to chose our own path. If Claudia feels this way she is entitled. I don't agree with her beliefs but we can all discuss what we believe in a civil manner.
+Claudia Nelson On behalf of the REAL Church of the Living God, I congratulate you on your decision to leave the Mormon myth. I pray that the Christ of the Bible will reign in your heart as you have faith in Him.
He would tell the 14 year olds that if they didn’t let him have his way with them god would be angry at them or that if they did god would be very happy with them. Very similar to the homie up at Waco.
Thomas Furgeson He raised $225,000 for the field work, incorporated the Foundation (being an attorney), assisted in the initial explorations in Central America and Mexico and has actively directed the affairs of the Foundation since its inception." quote from a religious site.
I think this is great for this video, particularly the parts that say: "That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine", "Let no corrupt communication proceed out of your mouth", "...the old man, which is corrupt according to the deceitful lusts", "...as the Gentiles walk... being alienated from the life of God through the ignorance... because of the blindness of their heart". That's exactly why we contend for the faith against Mormonism
Here it is, a year later. I wonder if "John Lee" is still trolling, pretending to be a Mormon and being the absolute opposite of what a Christian is said to be like. Or maybe he really is a Mormon, the kind that gives it a black eye! But even if he were a nice person, which he gives no evidence of, he'd still be wrong. Most Mormons actually are nice people, though thoroughly deluded. As are all folks who believe in any religion.
Oh yea, he's still around, trolling. I tend to believe that, as you wrote "he really is a Mormon, the kind that gives it a black eye!". There are a couple more like him that comes to mind and that's henochparks and Justin ("wise up") Snyder.
Grant Palmer is one of the most brilliant authors that has ever been in the church! A great video indeed ! Truthful truly! A very brilliant scholar ! And in- deed one that brings out truth and not fiction! He is headed in the right direction in the fight for truth ! Of course you can't cover the whole book of mormon and get inside Joseph Smith's head and know every detail of his plagiarism. But as Grant stated about 3/4th was done in his own back yard sort of speak!
Grant is a brilliant author and will be hearlded and being one of the greatest members of the LDS church very similar to Galileo! Though it might take many years when more and more evidence comes out of the fraudulence of the BOM!
I have to say it again. Truly, truly one of the greatest men to have ever graced the doors of the LDS CHURCH ! A GREAT MAN! SPIRITUAL, AND A FOLLOWER OF JESUS IN THE TRUE SENSE OF THE WORD!
I've left the LDS Church and I much appreciated Palmers book ( may he rest in peace) I'm glad I was able to leave no only Mormonism, but religion and theism behind .
The only thing that jumped into and stuck in my head throughout the entire video was 'Wow, Smith was just like Muhammad of Islam, just not as succesful.". These people lacked the strength of character that Jesus Christs had, even to the point of sheer immorality.
You are just as bad as all of them. ‘My religion is the best and most true’ etc. You are not getting the point. What do you know about Islam or any other world religion? Monotheism (one God for example as in Judaism) and this idea replaced the worship of many Gods in many different belief systems in that part of the world . Then came Christianity as an iteration in this process of ‘successfulness’ (in some parts of the world). Who are you to say this process stopped with Jesus? It’s only your personal conviction. And to go on about immorality in other religions takes first prize in the hypocrisy competition - think child molesting catholic priests, think grifting evangelical mega churches and the plethora of false prophets multiplying in that particular religious subculture.
Same. Totally same. So many similarities that it's disturbing. I think it hints at the real source - Satan. The founder of the JWs is similar in how he got his "revelation" from an angelic being.
The mormon organization will never go completely away. There will always be people who want to follow someone or something-it doesn’t have to make sense.
This was fascinating. We attended a Methodist church when I was younger, and it had long struck me that there seem to be a lot of parallels between Methodist practices and beliefs and Mormonism. How interesting that this former Mormon traces so much of the Book of Mormon back to Joseph Smith's association with Methodism.
Having a very open mind my spiritual path has been that of comparative religion. I have read Hinduism, Buddhism, Muslim, shamanism of Indigenous people around the world. I have also read Christian history, orthodoxy and otherwise and I must say I learned from them all. It is with this open mind I approached The Book of Mormon and I found that not only was it historically inaccurate but more importantly the Spirit of Life was not within it.
Just looking like into a crystal ball and seeing what's in the crystal similar is looking into the hat and with searstone depending on object so he can see visions in mind
After listening to the interview carefully two more times I owe brother Palmer an apology for using the words "revelation from God". Sorry brother, I was too prejudiced. I take your advise in making the Christ as the center of my life.
If a cult adds to Gods' Word, then they believe His Word is not good enough. Must have theirs as well. That is the warning. I only accept the Bible as Gods' Word, not Books of Mormon, Korans and the other add ons . They were written to support the cults beliefs if they couldn't support them from Gods' Word. I worked with a Mormon. He tried teaching me about there being many gods. That is blasphemy and I rejected those false teachings totally.
Hey Plume. What does "God's Word" mean to you? Is God behind every letter and word as if he wrote it himself? Is it a prophets writing down what he felt God was revealing to him, both or something else? Please read Genesis 1 specifically verse 26, Genesis 11 and specifically verse 6 and 7, Psalm 82:1-2, Psalm 136:2,3. Can you tell me your interpretation of these scriptures that seem to indicate multiple Gods or others with God who are also referred to as gods? Thank you
Plume, I'm not sure you answered my questions. so the bible that mentions plural gods means what to you? If the bible is God's word then what is he saying in the scriptures I mentioned? What do you believe about the other writings and books that the Catholic Church decided not to include in the bible we have today?
what do you say about the dead sea scrolls add ons? what about the scripture which says . take one stick and write upon it for the house upon it for the house of juda and take another stick and write upon it for the house of ephraime and they shall be one in your hand. what about all the scattered tribes of israel did the lord just forget about them or did he speak to them and if so do you think he would tell them to write what he told them .unlike the rest of the world joseph smith was comanded to write all that he was shown or had revealed to him so that you will have no excuse that it was not given to you all the world can see and read and compare it to the bible wich by the way we also believe in in as far as it is corectly translated the vatican holds the key to all your questions as they have all the lost scriptures in their possetion
Well when we die we will all know for sure and if you are right, I will not lose anything as we will cease to exist. If I am right, which is my belief, then I have everything to gain. You may have a lot to lose though and I would prefer not going down that path as you may not appreciate it. But after-all, it would be your decision. I am glad you know for sure and with 100% certainty that God will not be there to meet you upon death. It must have taken you a long time to know everything. That is the only way you could be 100% sure. I will only accept that from people who know everything about everything, as anything less may have missed God. For now, I will take God's Word over that of a mere man who thinks he knows everything. I certainly do not.
The rest of the story is the true Church.Its apostolic, one, founded by Christ and 2000 years old (the gates of hell have not prevailed against her Matthew 16-18).Do the math.
I would be careful saying stuff like that. Many people rejected the prophets of old times saying things like they are mad or they are possessed of a devil. The pharisees and sadducees themselves condemned Christ for working miracles by the devil. They also condemned the apostles of blasphemy and persecuted them. The people of Rome also persecuted the Christians, one of the reasons being that they thought the Christians were a cult because they did ordinances in private. They didn't understand that it was private because it was sacred. Look it up, it's in the history books. You may not believe that the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints is the true church of Christ, but you better be careful of what you condemn.
Christopher Martin when i was a kid in primary i did a 2.5 minute talk it was called money is the root of all evil this i did when i was 9 i have been out of the mormon church for 38 years and have never looked back until now when the internet and computer technology can pull the records of the court house in palmyra ny and navoo ill. and anyone can see the truth for them selves there are programs run to take apart the bom and to put it back to the books it came out of or any other plagiarized book for that matter there is nothing here from god it is all by men and nothing more
Christopher Martin It's ok for someone to exercise their discernment & express concern over whether a church is true or not. You failed to ask Lewis why he believes what he does - so it's wrong to assume he is avoiding truth for secret reasons, like the pharisees.
Erin Mackley Well, I'm only human and imperfect, I will of course fail at some things or even many things. Are you a member of the Church or familiar with it? If not I simply invite you to attend a meeting on Sunday and investigate to see for yourself whether the church is lead by the devil or led by God. I can promise you that you will be uplifted and draw closer to God if you have a real intent to seek for the truth. You will feel the Spirit, who is the testator of all truth. I know that God does live and speaks to HIs children and will impart truth to them if they seek. I know Jesus Christ is my Redeemer and died for my sins because He loves me. I know He has restored His Gospel in the last days to prepare for His coming. I simply invite you and anyone who reads this to see for yourself, to read the Book of Mormon which is another testimony of Jesus Christ, and to attend the Church. I testify that it is the Kingdom of God on earth and is lead by the Savior Himself.
Mormon's ask yourself. If gold the size of a brick cannot be lifted with one hand, how much do you think the entire plates weighed which were more than twice this size. It would have been impossible for Joseph Smith to have carried those plates and run from the enemies, as he said. Unless of course, an angel helped he carry it. l-o-l
"Mormon's ask yourself. If gold the size of a brick cannot be lifted with one hand, how much do you think the entire plates weighed which were more than twice this size." The answer is really quite simple, your assumptions are incorrect ==>> 1. You are assuming, with your solid brick example, that the plates were a solid block. Actually it was comprised of many thin leaves of metal bound together, and not a solid block. 2. You are assuming that they were pure gold. Actually the witnesses said that the plates "had the appearance of gold". They were made of a gold alloy. The witnesses hefted and handled the plates and said they were about 40-50 pounds. Emma Smith was able to move the plates so that she could do her housekeeping. Joseph Smith was a farm hand, and certainly could handle a 50 pound load. Thanks for asking.
cdowis I've read about the witnesses. They all said they only saw the plates with their spiritual eyes. What does this even mean. Either they saw them or not. spiritual eyes would imply they did not actually see the plates but only had faith they existed. Do yur research on your own religion if you are to comment on such things.
Jbeliski "they only saw the plates with their spiritual eyes." Rather than reading the anti-Mormon version, let's read what they actually said: Be it known unto all nations, kindreds, tongues, and people, unto whom this work shall come: That Joseph Smith, Jun., the translator of this work, has shown unto us the plates of which hath been spoken, which have the appearance of gold; and as many of the leaves as the said Smith has translated we did handle with our hands; and we also saw the engravings thereon, all of which has the appearance of ancient work, and of curious workmanship. And this we bear record with words of soberness, that the said Smith has shown unto us, for we have seen and hefted, and know of a surety that the said Smith has got the plates of which we have spoken. And we give our names unto the world, to witness unto the world that which we have seen. And we lie not, God bearing witness of it. quod.lib.umich.edu/cgi/m/mormon/mormon-idx?type=DIV0&byte=3882 Dan Vopgel wrote this in an article about the witnesses of the BOM, and I discussed this on another forum. I asked him several times to document this statement regarding the eight witnesses and he was unable to do so. Basically he said it just made sense that's what happened. IOW, he just made it up. Anyway, you have to decide who is telling the truth..
Jbeliski It is not known whether the gold plates were pure gold, or a gold alloy. No survey was ever attempted. If they were hammered, and not rolled, then there was probably quite a bit of space between the pages, as they would not fit closely together. I've seen the box where the plates were kept; they couldn't have been as large as the standard description. Perhaps the rings were that large, but the plates themselves had to be much smaller to fit in that box. If memory serves, the box was only 5.5 " thick at its thickest point, with the hinges straining. Then it tapered down to 3.5 to 4". Add that to the fact that Joseph Smith was a tall strong farmer, who challenged many but never lost at wrestling, and it becomes apparent that it was entirely plausible. Only one of the witnesses continually stated that he saw it with his "spiritual" eyes, and there is no indication from his testimony that the experience was imaginary or somehow not real. We can't pretend to know what he saw, but it was enough that he never sought the 10,000 dollar reward that was offered to any witness who would recant. Some of the witnesses held the Book of Mormon on their laps and turned the pages.
***** >>t is not known whether the gold plates were pure gold, or a gold alloy. Several individuals who lifted the plates said they weighed between 40-50 pounds. Obviously that was an alloy. >>spiritual eyes You are correct ==>> The three witnesses saw the plates in a vision, but the eight witnesses handled the plates, hefted them, and looked at the engravings. Indeed this "spiritual eyes" account was written by a third party decades later. We don't really know exactly what the witness used those words.
On April 6, 1840, Orson wrote, “I was appointed, in company with Elder John E. Page, to go on a mission to Jerusalem”. A week later, Orson left for what would be a three year mission. On October 24, 1841, Orson stood on the Mount of Olives and consecrated Palestine for the gathering of Judah in the last days. While Orson was gone, Marinda, “had to live in a little log house whose windows had no glass but in place of which were pieces of greased paper...A little cornmeal and a few groceries were all the provisions remaining to sustain her and the little ones.”. Noting Marinda’s living conditions, Joseph Smith received the following revelation dated December 2, 1841: “Verily thus saith the Lord unto you my servant Joseph. that inasmuch as you have called upon me to know my will concerning my handmaid Nancy Marinda Hyde Behold it is my will that she should have a better place prepared for her than that in which she now lives...and let my handmaid Nancy Marinda Hyde hearken to the counsel of my servant Joseph in all things whatsoever he shall teach unto her...” Marinda soon moved to a better home. In the Spring of 1842 she married Joseph. In Joseph’s diary is a list of his marriages. It includes the entry: “Apr 42 Marinda Johnson to Joseph Smith.”. Eight months later, in December, Orson returned from his mission.
if I am a Mormon,I will never attend any kind of church if I decided to leave the church.I will just wait for the 2nd coming, pray to God and endure to the end of my life
2) I've read direct quotes from the Pearl of Great Price and other writings of both Joseph Smith and Brigham Young that support each of these doctrinal statements. If I am wrong please correct me, but know I will find the quotes and post them. Mormons require faith outside of evidence, but true faith is one that is BACKED UP by the evidence. True faith is in the truth, and believe me I haven't found a single teaching of the Mormon Church that has any truck with the truth.
I have listened to a few of the Exmo discussions to understand better why intelligent folks don't leave a faith group that had deceived them. What I seem to have learned is that if the leadership had any brains they would realize the falsehoods that they perpetrate. But since they don’t, their dishonesty thus defines their character and nature.
There was a person that stated Thomas Furgeson was not an archeologist. But I have to say Sir William Petrie was home schooled and did not have a degree. So it isn't written in stone that one has to have a degree to become an archeologist !
I left the LDS church in 2006. I was asked a single question on my faith by a friend, a Christian. To this day I can’t, for the life of me remember what that question was. My friend asked that I don’t answer at that moment, but to wait and pray and search for the answer. I spent the next 3 days searching and reading and praying. I found tons of info on the internet and an internet site Mormons In Transition (MIT). I had conversations through emails with a few of them and found more and more inconsistencies with the LDS church. Angry and broken I prayed and continued to read and search for the next few days. …Hearing/listening to Ex-Mormons here in Utah is hard. It brings back so much emotion. I am finding it difficult not to stay angry of the LDS church, although I am wholeheartedly grateful for these UA-cam videos.
Congrats on leaving the bondage of the Mormon Church. Rejoice in your new found freedom my friend.
Searching the Scriptures and praying for TRUTH is a much different experience than a "burning in the bosom" ...
And you SHOULD be angry.... the LDS hierarchy absolutely knows all of these things and the lack of evidence and the way they have changed their various doctrines with the times...none of which is honest or transparent in a way that shows a genuine care and concern for a person's soul....
Nearly twenty years gone and here you still are...pathetically bashing a faith you claim to have rejected two decades ago. I've heard therapy helps. I think you still have unresolved issues. After this long you're still angry and broken. Sad.
I served a mission 08-10, and after being out 18 months we were suddenly directed to try to commit our investigators to baptism after the first lesson... I could never do that... started my cognitive dissonance... also the "anti" I had read (just trying to see what kinds of concerns I might hear from ppl) turned out to be true, not just "wicked lies".... so I left a couple weeks after returning home
Wow, the internet is such a reliable source of info regarding anything!!
about 4 years ago this video was everything to me...Thank you Grant, you changed my life.
Thank you Grant Palmer! You are an example to us all.
After 28 years, a mission, temple marriage, working for LDS for 5 years, all I have is a hand full of good memories and a mountain of anxiety, anger, distrust, cognitive dissonance, etc... I just got tired of being told I was wrong by people who know less than I do, but as the bishop told me point blank to justify staying in the church, "ignorance is bliss"
+bobthetuber11 Thanks for leaving so we didn't have to throw you out.
Glad to hear you've gotten free ! Yes, so many have been duped into believing Smith and his cultic nonsense.
John Lee what an asshole you are
I find it amazing they are still putting out how real the BOM is !
@Buck Snort Just wishing him well on his journey out of accountability.
Brilliant. I can’t believe how much I keep learning about the actual and true history of the church. It keeps blowing me away. Love it. Thank you
I am happy to proclaim that I have left the LDS church. Like Grant, I still have great faith in Jesus Christ.
+Sara K Now go learn differences in beliefs! God is the creator of all in Christianity.
+Sara K Thanks for leaving on your own...we usually have to throw our deadwood out.
+Sara K Good for you ! Always glad to hear of your departure from deception. Mormonism is a spiritual prison. Enjoy your new-found freedom in God.....
My mental health is much better, and my spirituality and closeness to God is increasing. I left a year ago.
+Sara K I wish you well on your journey out of accountability...
I don't think the LDS church would have the amount of followers it has right now if the internet existed many years ago. More will leave over time. I just don't understand how the finances are not for public viewing by this church. Tithing is investment money for LDS Corp Inc not for tithing.
You’re right, they would have more. Look how shitty society has gotten since the internet. We have stupid kids in school as furries, going in litter boxes and not responding to questions from teachers because furries don’t talk.
It’s 2am and I’ve just taken about 10 pages of notes on this talk and my mind is blown--one of those little mind field explosions you mentioned--but THANK YOU!!!!! I left about 4 years ago all because of an unworthy bishop and now your words make me so very sure I did the right thing!!! I’m glad I didn’t waste more time! I’m ordering your book!
blessings on your journey!
"The English Bible was to the Catholic church what the internet is to the Mormon church." - Grant Palmer (1:13:05) ...very fascinating insight.
Except it wasn’t.
Former member here myself. Once I started to research the lack of archeological and DNA evidence in for the book of Mormon, I knew it was time to leave. I am now closer to Christ.
I’m sorry to hear that.
Me, too. Left Mormonism eight years ago. But I will never leave Jesus Christ behind.
@@jestes7so is your god, satan.
blessings on you & your journey!
@@jestes7why?
I found this illuminating and interesting. Thankyou for doing this for us. I have left the church, after 40 years. I was appalled at what I had been in for those 40 years.
I was in for 40 years, too. I converted at 16. What a waste!
@@sarak6860It didn't happen against God's will. It wasn't a waste. Our thoughts aren't His thoughts, and His ways are higher than our ways. Have faith in Him that this was neccesary for His will and pleasure. Nothing works against Him, all things glorify Him in the end, I believe.
You may be right. There are good things I learned during my years as a Mormon.@@swayzy762
I also thought the church was true, and I also didn't like it. I experienced years of depression that started to lift after reading unedited church history. It is amazing how living a repressed life can influence mental health.
Grant Palmer said that the Egyptologist's were right! Although the You Tube video titled ''Book of Abraham Debunks anti-LDS Lies'' in the YEAR 2014 DEBUNKED ALL OF THAT ANTI-BOOK OF ABRAHAM INFO (books, websites, You Tube videos) though!
Why did you tangent off topic to something not even addressed?
You misrepresent our faith with these caustic posts.
@Janette Johnson Google ''Book of Abraham debunks anti-LDS Lies You Tube'' It's thee video that debunked Robert Ritner and the other Egyptologist's. How? Proper interpretation of the translation process of the Book of Abraham. It kind of proves that Grant Palmer on the above You Tube video is ludicrous on his anti-Book of Abraham attack, in other words. As all anti-Book of Abraham efforts, books, You Tube videos, sites, from the Egyptologist's and the anti-Mormon Christian's (self addressed Christians) is based on false idiotic assumptions on translation.
Grant Palmer, thee Egyptologist's, thee anti-Mormon Christians, the remainder have been proven to be jackasses, in other words. As ALL anti-Book of Abraham information, anti-Book of Abraham You Tube videos for example, is based on false idiotic assumptions on the translation process of the Book of Abraham from Joseph Smith. That video that I told you you about in my last comment proves it. Proves it by demonstrating proper INTERPRETATION of the translation process of the Book of Abraham. That video followed shortly after a silent prayer to God in the year 2014 for some kind of new insight on this Book of Abraham subject. By the way, that video is video 1 of 10. I wouldn't suggest listening to the anti-Mormon information from the likes of Grant Palmer on the above You Tube video, they're not a very honest people.
Richard Holmes You come across as increasingly desperate and paranoid. What are you so afraid of? Finding out that Grant Palmer is telling the truth? Pathetic.
It takes guts to leave a cult like LDS. Intellectual integrity is a gift from God.
Tell that to God, not me.
It does indeed! Because so many times, story after story I've heard how ex mormons have lost family and friends.
I certainly did.
But, the rewards for leaving Mormonism and losing much is gaining Jesus!!
God bless Maxwell!
YOU LOST YOUR FAMILY?? WHAT HELL KIND CULT IS THIS?
Truth
Sarah Kay nakedmormonismpodcast.com
The hardest part of leaving Mormonism is learning that words and terms mean very different things to people like me who grew up in the LDS church and those who are Bible-based Christians. It has been a painful and difficult journey of 40 years.
Thanks for leaving on your own...we would have thrown you out eventually.
God bless you on your ongoing journey. May you continue to grow in the love and wisdom of the one and only True God. You must be a courageous person.
I bet you are thankful for the pain involved to be realizing the truth!!!
DAMN. That lady who described the church's "corporate package as declining in value" and called them out for racism, sexism, and homophobia. A+++
Mere C that was cringe af
I agree with Palmer, but there is no racism, sexism, or homophobia from the church. I lived in it every day for 20 years
I am so happy to see these people come out of the cult of mormonism
You didnt like my koolaid? Please come back, it only takes 10% of your income to go to heaven.
Joseph Smith I am seeking forgiveness for my sins, would you throw in a Second Anointing if I go all the way up to 15%?
Me too.
The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints is the church of Christ. When it is the truth people hate truths. We still love you brothers and sisters. We don't retaliate because when Jesus Christ did not retaliate his enemies. Why don't you leave the church and not bad mouth it????? The guilt is not easy to live with. God sees everything and his work shall move forward as evidently shows in the growth of the gospel in the four corners of the world. Thank you.
@@toesetusitala3083 When your "truth" is contradicted by facts and evidence, it isn't true.
As a former and active LDS member, I came to the same understanding as Grant Palmer. And like an onion, layer by layer can be stripped away resulting in nothing left but tears. The seer stones, the method JS used to "translate" the BOM, the Kirtland bank experience ending with JS becoming a fugitive, the Missouri experience, Nauvoo, polygamy, etc. You can see how JS became what he cautioned against, once a man obtains a bit of authority he begins to exercise unrighteous dominion. But it was how JS treated his closest friends when they rejected polygamy that is most telling...
Brother Palmers study and accounts of Joseph Smith is very disturbing. He really shed the light on the dark personality of what Joseph Smith really was.
This video is great and thank you for posting. I'm former LDS and ministries such as yours were such a crucial part of my getting saved. Praise God!
You're not saved when you reject the very church and ONLY church that Christ created! Wise up!
And you're saved if you embrace this 'Church'? You still have to perform works once you're in it.
Joshua Casey Actually, nobody HAS to perform anything. We all have agency. Can we be honest about this question? The Bible has MUCH to say about faith and works. Parts of it APPEAR to be in conflict with each other but is clarified upon careful examination, in context. For example, he was once asked Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life? (Matt 18:16). His answer was simply to keep the commandments. 1 Jn is full of references necessitating works as a part of salvation. The NT is full of references of things we are commanded to DO - which would have been unnecessary if all we needed to do was to sit back and do nothing. And Luther actually advocated removing several books from the Canon, including James because of its emphasis on works.
Clearly, there are parts of the Bible that indicate that what is needed is to have faith in Christ without the deeds of the law (Rom 3:27) or that man is not justified by the works of the law (Gal 2:16). The LDS view is that "the law" that is referred to, is simply the law of Moses, which was fulfilled in Christ. Further, we believe that it is ONLY in Christ that we are saved, after all we can do (2 Ne 25:23).
Finally, even the act of believing is something we either do or don't do. Belief is, very much, a work. And all of our works are a natural result of our faith.
unirrational, the Mormon view is that it is only in Christ we are saved after all we can do? What if we don't do everything we can possibly do? Who among us does? Hear me out, obedience is important. But I don't strive to keep the commandments to gain eternal glory; I try to keep them because it's the wish of someone who gave their life for me. Also, no man is to judge how well I keep the commandments. Just like I'm not to judge anyone else.
Joshua Casey Try writing your sentences properly, before you claim you know what you are talking about. Wise up!
We left the church, three families, 13 people. Praise God, he showed us the truth.
13 fewer weak and confused Mormons...what's the downside?
@@johnlee1352 whose the weak one? the people who face the realities of the FARSE that is LDS and leave or someone like you who is either just believing whatever someone has told you that you don't care to find out for yourself or you're just too prideful to admit that you've been wrong or duped.... there is no shame in admiting to that... it's your ETERNITY that's at stake!! I will pray for you♥︎
@@Standing.W.Israel OR... I'm right and you're a weak idiot...the possibilities are endless! Always glad to be the subject of prayer, though I suspect my best interests will not be at the fore. If you ever were LDS, thanks for leaving so we didn't have to throw you out. If you never were, thanks for staying out.
I, like most Mormons, assumed the "good feelings" were a confirmation of Mormonism--until I realized that those EXACT FEELINGS showed up when I sang the National Anthem, read "Old Yeller", saw the movie "PS I Love You" and read "Twas The Night Before Christmas".
Were my thrilling and tingly and heart warming, burning in the bosom feelings reading "Twas The Night Before Christmas" a confirmation that Santa Claus was REAL or true??
Paul Dunn (Qof70) was a great story teller. THRILLING!
ALL a lie!.
's because you were never taught the difference between emotions and the feeling of the spirit. the church doctrine is actually true but you and others really never were taught and seem to be gullible. Because you finally learned to think you think its not true however imo you haven't thought far enough and that is why. Yes, you can get warm feeling from a lot of things but the light you can't get from it and the gift of the Holy ghost you can't. you can feel the HOly ghost but not have it has a constanst companion and there is a difference. and you need to read the book Faith crisi by the stoddards. I haven't needed it but many others seem to because typical people mormon aren't familiar with con men and are book smart but with out critical question thinking. and this guy says this and some of them eat it up. if you don't believe its not true why stay?
@@bobbyc.1111 insulting and belittling people is certainly the way to bring them back. “Bobby, you’re a moron for not critically thinking and just ‘feeling’ that something is true.”
You’re not following the great commandments. You’re being an asshole. And if you really want to bring people unto Christ, stop attacking and bullying and belittling the “lost sheep.”
Noticed it at an ozzy osbourne concert and it made me completely loose my testimony of the holy ghost. That blasphemous rock god showed me the way
Wait…Santa Claus is a lie?
Its not a lie if you believe it@TP-om8of
On how he got so many women.... he threatened them with going to hell/him getting slain by angels. So he did not get them to say yes. He tricked them.
some of them were children
"Trickery" & "Deception" is their Origin and Modus Operandi
Power is also an aphrodisiac that can't be discounted. That supposed power being a false illusion (reality) of him being a prophet, though they likely believed it to be true.
You can believe almost anything if you put your mind to it. I now prefer reason over feelings when it comes to beliefs, though. I don't blame those who think the BOM is true or do I think they're stupid. They've just followed "feelings" instead of reason. I happen to value truth more than loyalty. I left Mormonism because of that. You don't find truth by feelings. Logic and evidence may lead to uncomfortable truths and may not be as pleasant as deluding oneself, but I prefer it. If you've got to tell yourself fairy tales to be happy, go for it.
just imagine if the fairy tails are true what the result will be one day think about it
+rationalguy On behalf of good Mormons everywhere, let me congratulate you on your exit from the Mormon Church. You saved us the trouble of throwing you out! We're always looking to get rid of the deadwood and misfits anyway. You're too weak and self absorbed to be among us. Have a nice unaccountable life.
+John Lee What a nasty little mormon you are..... "glad you left"? What an impressive Christ -like love you have for ex-members! You loveless hard hearted hypocrite. Many thanks for showing a perfect example of the real inside attitudes of your fake religion.
+rationalguy Some will allow you to bash their faith with impunity! Not this one.
John Lee I do not believe that your response would be approved by your bishop, or Jesus himself. Do you?
Sooo much of the BoM was lifted from the KJV. How could we not know this? Mostly because the church stresses the BoM and dismisses the Bible.
im researching mormonism so this is helpful thanks i have my suspicions
Unless you are using the Holy Ghost you will not find your answers. Being a Latter-Day-Saint is a spiritual experience. If you want the truth you must use the true order of prayer: Ask Heavenly Father, in the name of Jesus Christ, and if you are sincere, you will receive a witness form the Holy Ghost. That's it! Most of these anti-LDS idiots hear something and then repeat it, true or not.
@@geraldhenson6521 after reading your comment I highly recommend watching this video: ua-cam.com/video/ycUvC9s4VYA/v-deo.html
Also, ignoring the truth because it goes against what you believe is just plain ignorant... watch the video
@@geraldhenson6521 i have the holy spirit thanks judge not ok
@@geraldhenson6521 "Most of these anti-LDS idiots hear something and then repeat it, true or not."
says the person not even TRYING to make an argument based on anything other than a "spiritual experience" the last resource of a religion that has been proven to be untrue by every branch of science. no matter that every religion on the planet has given rise to "true" and "confirming' spiritual experiences to its members. unfortunately for you as the population becomes more educated, members see this tactic for the manipulative mind control that it is. too bad Joseph smith for all his prophecies couldn't see the bearer of his destruction coming: the internet.. (aka. information). it's AMAZING what a just a little bit of education can do. thank Elohim!
Your comment on science and needing proof is funny. Every religion can be deemed false.
How does one proof with science or evidence that Christ rose from his tomb and was resurrected? Not one person can attest or proof that. All we have are written stories that also could have been false.
So sure the church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints is easily dismissed as false so agree. But it’s absurd to stop there. What about the next religion and the next? One has to become agnostic or atheist to have piece of mind if needing facts or evidence or needing good doctrine. Just believe in the Bible or the Old Testament or the Koran etc is just as bad as believing Mormonism. Mormons have weird beliefs granted, but from what I’ve seen every religion does and it’s not very settling. I think more people might be better off listening to more practices like karma and mindsets then an actual religion.
I am so proud of you ex Mormons leaving a cult.
Please learn the definition of a cult. The LDS church is to large for one to be one.
@Chad Gochis i noticed the same thing with Catholics. Most are pretty good people and think the Pope is a good guy even with all the history of the Church and Popes. Especially now with all the kids molested by Priest and Cardinals and the obvious knowledge of the church and its leaders.
@@darinwinn1640 The BITE model disagrees. experts who study cults and help those who leave and reprogram disagree. Mormonism is a cult.
@Chad Gochis There is extensive evidence that shows the Mormon church leadership have intentionally lied for financial control and gain for generations.
@@juneholley1813 cant argue with a idiot. Try looking up definition dingdong. Its to big to be a cult is the first given.
Grant Palmer is a gift to us.
Now he is in Heaven with Jesus.
If we know CHRIST JESUS OF THE BIBLE, THAT HE IS THE WAY, THE TRUTH AND THE LIFE, THAT NO ONE GOES TO THE FATHER, BUT THROUGH JESUS!!! This absolutely eliminates EVERYBODY ELSE from the TRUTH!!! GOD bless these people who comes to know the TRUTH!!!
YES JESUS IS TRUTH AND THE LIGHT. NOTHING MORE NEEDED EXCEPT HIM FOR FOR SURE NOT CULT LIKE BRAINWASHED MORMONS!
I once explained to two kind young men, LDS, in my home, how the biblical texts of the Greek New Testament and the Hebrew old were derived. They had no idea how different this was from what they believed about the origins of the BOM. But when I paused to hear their reaction, I was told that I ought to read the BOM nevertheless and see if I experienced the "burning bosom." This evidently was something they had experienced or at least were told to say.
I think they are amazing too: Believing in gold plates, Abraham's writings turning up in America, dark skin being a sign of God's displeasure, travelling to other planets at will (yes one of the prophets thought he could do this) Quakers living on the moon, men living on the sun, polygamy, etc etc. And it's even more amazing that people can still believe in these men.
It would be funny if it weren't so sad that people are so gullible and ignorant.
like reading the Bible only and listening to those fake, phony, frauds you Biblonians call paid preachers.
@@geraldhenson6521 stfu
Sandra Jones wrote:
" It would be funny if it weren't so sad that people are so gullible and ignorant. "
Mormons are the victims in this. They aren't gullible and ignorant. They are lost because the father of lies has deceived them. That's how deceptiion works; you don't know it.
I am so grateful to Ex- Mormon people for taking the time to reach out to those still lost in Mormonism. Thank you.
My Sister is still in it. I pray that the Lord will open her heart and led her out.
I left the [LDS] church in 1991. I just couldn’t accept the wholesomeness of Joseph Smith and the BoM any longer. Living through the whole Salamander Letter scandal while living in Utah was a huge ah-ha moment. Plus, Mormons aren’t very Christian…at least they weren’t back then. I have been so much happier and closer to Jesus since leaving the LDS church and moving out of Utah.
Joseph Smith could have seen these beings. Satan Himself can appear as a being of light. If Joseph was inviting these evil beings through mysticism and magic then he was a perfect target for satan to use for the purpose of deceiving millions through this false church. 2 Corinthians 11:14 And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.
+Glenda McLachlan
Are you also saying that Paul saw "an angel of light" on the road to Damascus.
I am A Christian and I got that same impression
This is my suspicion
Joseph Smith fails every test of a prophet, but passes the test of a seer. The prophet is messenger of the Most High God, but a seer looks into a very different realm via a way not of God. Warnings abound in the bible of teaching and being taught a different gospel.
I belief the origins of his so-called visions and revelations are demonic. His use of what sounds like witch craft is a dead giveaway to me.
Grant, thank you for having the courage to come forward and share your story. I found that when I became truly free to seek inspiration apart from any belief system, I also miraculously felt free to allow others to believe as they will. This feeling of freedom was my validation that my choice to leave the teachings of the LDS church was a correct decision.
When I first heard about Mormonism in the begining of the story 1 Joseph Smith said he saw God (strike 1 no one can look upon God Moses saw a burning bush) Strike 2 was only Joseph Smith saw the plates and then the "angel" took them back. It never got to the hat but the hat is priceless--I pretend not to know anything about Mormon just to hear about the hat
Are you really this illiterate? Exodus 33:11..."And the LORD spake to Moses FACE TO FACE as a man speaketh unto his friend." Are you stupid? You apparently know nothing about the Bible either...
Years later this evil man, Smith, is still ruining lives. My sister converted and she now shuns me because I let her know I would never become a Mormon. Families Forever? Yeah, right.
😢
The life blood of the Mormon Church is ebbing away. Those of us who have awoken can never again go back to sleep. You will rarely get any decent debate in the defense of Mormonism, but one can only expect personal attacks and labels.
Thanks for leaving on your own...we would have thrown you out anyway.
+John Lee go fuck yourself devil worshiper.
You have overstated your case against the church. We are here to stay and don't give one rip about what you think or say. Just because some ex-LDS deadbeats decide to leave and then post it on youtube you think we are ebbing away. Joseph Smith predicted this a long time ago. A certain number of deadbeats and slag will leave the church. We active LDS have known about it for years. All you are is prophecy fulfilled.
+Gerald Henson .... Ar but you DO care about what is being said. It grinds at you, it affects your testimony. It brings more unanswered questions in you that you are forced to brush away with parrot narrative of bearing your testimony.
I doubt you've watched this video, but you call Grant Palmer, an honest man, a deadbeat.
Grant Palmer passed away without resentment or hatred against the church. But you Mormons all speak vicious vitriol against a good man who speaks truth because it doesn't fit with yours.
You remind me of Joseph Smith who would label the women who refused his sexual advances as "whores".
The Mormon church are closing missions, combining Wards and Stakes, it is cracking. The flood may not happen in my lifetime but it's coming.
You want REAL prophecy?, try Christs prophecy over a con man. False prophets like wolves in sheeps clothing, as William Law, 2nd Counselor to Smith (another honest man demonized by you lot), had stated in his diary.
Mormons hate facts, that's a fact in itself.
@Gerald Henson ... The parroting of the narrative of which you dribble is nothing new to me. You lay claim to THE true church, seizing self righteous high ground by passing a judgement on people who oppose what you believe. You've been indoctrinated to think the MORMON mindset, an indoctrination I am well award of.
Thus you parrot what has been fed into your head for years.
The fact that other religions claim to be THE truth makes your own claim subjective.
All you have to go on is your religious beliefs in spite of facts and historical truth.
So deluded in your self righteousness that you say I'm a tool of the devil.
Wow.. what an ego!!.( If it's up to Christ to say Grant Palmer is a good man or not , then isn't it up to Christ to say whether I'm a tool of the devil or not as well?. See the problem you have now?, it's called "hypocrisy").
You've clearly pointed out the crap that MORMONS have been fed on, how you think and what you REALLY believe. A vitriol of vicious judgment of others who are no longer indoctrinated by filthy blasphemous falsehoods taught by the MORMON church.
MORMONS demonize good men like Grant Palmer, and William Law. And elevate the sick twisted sexual predatory liars like Joseph Smith and Brigham Young.
You hate facts, thus you ignore them and splash your verbal diarrhea by making a judgement on people who have awoken to the MORMON fraud.
Try again...
Yes he was persecuted and hounded--not because of his faith, but because of his ACTIONS!--snubbing his nose at State authorities, marrying little girls, marrying other men's wives, destroying a printing press, his Kirtland bank fraud, hitting on local women and boasting of his "holy" works.
His treatment (except for murder) was treatment ANY con man deserves who tries pulling the wool over the eyes of the public.
He DID NOT deserve to be murdered. I for one wish he had lived to stand trial.
Golden tablets, hidden planets, plural marriages, Jesus visited Salt Lake, can they be that silly?
Yes, people believe the hoax....
+ Frank Allen Maybe later, we'll find the Loch Ness Monster in the Great Salt Lake....
+ kevin beck Yes, all of us LOVE a good sequel....
Just as silly as anything in the Bible.
Remember that no one is entirely rational all the time. People who are conditioned to be irrational on a certain topic will nearly always have a blind spot, however rational they may be otherwise. That any Mormon can ever leave Mormonism is only by the grace of God, the LogoS incarnate.
1) "Yahweh, He is God in heaven above and on the earth below; there is no other." Deuteronomy 4:39
WHERE ARE THE MORmON gODS?
(2) "Before Me there was no God formed, And there will be none after Me." Isaiah 43:10
WHEN WAS WERE THE MORmON gODS FORMED?
(3) "'I am the first and I am the last, And there is no God besides Me." Isaiah 44:6
"I am Yahweh, and there is no other; Besides Me there is no God." Isaiah 45:5
DOES MY GOD NOT KNOW THE MORmON gODS?
+dee hee For whatever it's worth, the Hebrews had a whole slew of gods before they settled on the god of war (known as "the lord of hosts").
+Jeremy Nicoll..... They had many titles of the same God which were adjectives but worshipped the one and only true God....FOR WHATEVER IT'S WORTH?
Where is any god?
+rationalguy... There is only one True God...Earth is his footstool.
+Bergen Norway ..IN CASE YOUR SERIOUS?
EL, ELOAH: God "mighty, strong, prominent" (Nehemiah 9:17; Psalm 139:19) - etymologically, El appears to mean “power,” as in “I have the power to harm you” (Genesis 31:29). El is associated with other qualities, such as integrity (Numbers 23:19), jealousy (Deuteronomy 5:9), and compassion (Nehemiah 9:31), but the root idea of “might” remains.
ELOHIM: God “Creator, Mighty and Strong” (Genesis 17:7; Jeremiah 31:33) - the plural form of Eloah, which accommodates the doctrine of the Trinity. From the Bible’s first sentence, the superlative nature of God’s power is evident as God (Elohim) speaks the world into existence (Genesis 1:1).
EL SHADDAI: “God Almighty,” “The Mighty One of Jacob” (Genesis 49:24; Psalm 132:2,5) - speaks to God’s ultimate power over all.
ADONAI: “Lord” (Genesis 15:2; Judges 6:15) - used in place of YHWH, which was thought by the Jews to be too sacred to be uttered by sinful men. In the Old Testament, YHWH is more often used in God’s dealings with His people, while Adonai is used more when He deals with the Gentiles.
YHWH / YAHWEH / JEHOVAH: “LORD” (Deuteronomy 6:4; Daniel 9:14) - strictly speaking, the only proper name for God. Translated in English Bibles “LORD” (all capitals) to distinguish it from Adonai, “Lord.” The revelation of the name is first given to Moses “I Am who I Am” (Exodus 3:14). This name specifies an immediacy, a presence. Yahweh is present, accessible, near to those who call on Him for deliverance (Psalm 107:13), forgiveness (Psalm 25:11) and guidance (Psalm 31:3).
YAHWEH-JIREH: "The Lord Will Provide" (Genesis 22:14) - the name memorialized by Abraham when God provided the ram to be sacrificed in place of Isaac.
YAHWEH-RAPHA: "The Lord Who Heals" (Exodus 15:26) - “I am Jehovah who heals you” both in body and soul. In body, by preserving from and curing diseases, and in soul, by pardoning iniquities.
YAHWEH-NISSI: "The Lord Our Banner" (Exodus 17:15), where banner is understood to be a rallying place. This name commemorates the desert victory over the Amalekites in Exodus 17.
YAHWEH-M'KADDESH: "The Lord Who Sanctifies, Makes Holy" (Leviticus 20:8; Ezekiel 37:28) - God makes it clear that He alone, not the law, can cleanse His people and make them holy.
YAHWEH-SHALOM: "The Lord Our Peace" (Judges 6:24) - the name given by Gideon to the altar he built after the Angel of the Lord assured him he would not die as he thought he would after seeing Him.
YAHWEH-ELOHIM: "LORD God" (Genesis 2:4; Psalm 59:5) - a combination of God’s unique name YHWH and the generic “Lord,” signifying that He is the Lord of Lords.
YAHWEH-TSIDKENU: "The Lord Our Righteousness” (Jeremiah 33:16) - As with YHWH-M’Kaddesh, it is God alone who provides righteousness to man, ultimately in the person of His Son, Jesus Christ, who became sin for us “that we might become the Righteousness of God in Him” (2 Corinthians 5:21).
YAHWEH-ROHI: "The Lord Our Shepherd" (Psalm 23:1) - After David pondered his relationship as a shepherd to his sheep, he realized that was exactly the relationship God had with him, and so he declares, “Yahweh-Rohi is my Shepherd. I shall not want” (Psalm 23:1).
YAHWEH-SHAMMAH: "The Lord Is There” (Ezekiel 48:35) - the name ascribed to Jerusalem and the Temple there, indicating that the once-departed glory of the Lord (Ezekiel 8-11) had returned (Ezekiel 44:1-4).
YAHWEH-SABAOTH: "The Lord of Hosts" (Isaiah 1:24; Psalm 46:7) - Hosts means “hordes,” both of angels and of men. He is Lord of the host of heaven and of the inhabitants of the earth, of Jews and Gentiles, of rich and poor, master and slave. The name is expressive of the majesty, power, and authority of God and shows that He is able to accomplish what He determines to do.
EL ELYON: “Most High" (Deuteronomy 26:19) - derived from the Hebrew root for “go up” or “ascend,” so the implication is of that which is the very highest. El Elyon denotes exaltation and speaks of absolute right to lordship.
EL ROI: "God of Seeing" (Genesis 16:13) - the name ascribed to God by Hagar, alone and desperate in the wilderness after being driven out by Sarah (Genesis 16:1-14). When Hagar met the Angel of the Lord, she realized she had seen God Himself in a theophany. She also realized that El Roi saw her in her distress and testified that He is a God who lives and sees all.
EL-OLAM: "Everlasting God" (Psalm 90:1-3) - God’s nature is without beginning or end, free from all constraints of time, and He contains within Himself the very cause of time itself. “From everlasting to everlasting, You are God.”
EL-GIBHOR: “Mighty God” (Isaiah 9:6) - the name describing the Messiah, Christ Jesus, in this prophetic portion of Isaiah. As a powerful and mighty warrior, the Messiah, the Mighty God, will accomplish the destruction of God’s enemies and rule with a rod of iron (Revelation 19:15).
Six years ago, a High Priest proudly gave a copy of DC 132.
Reading it took me on a journey that led to Mr Palmer. Mr Palmer brought me to study more deeply the church I had been a member of for 70 years.
I no longer believe any of Smiths story. I have not officially removed my name from their roles. I will soon so so as most of my family will do.
RIP GRANT PALMER.
I miss him already.
That is NOT happening. He came to know the truth. He was wrong and passed on his cultish ideas to you all. You will all find out that what you see of the past with eyes of the present is not what it appears to be!
I was a freshman at BYU in 1970. From a small town in rural Illinois and not a Mormon, I knew nothing about the Mormonism but was an athlete and had to take Book of Mormon as part of my academic requirements. When I started hearing about what was being taught , it was hard for me to take it seriously at first. Later in the course it just made me angry. I was a "believing Christian" with a Baptist background and I found nothing similar to Christianity in any of it. I loved the friends I made there, but I was appalled by the doctrine being sold and the focus on rules instead of Spirituality.
The point is how easily people can buy in to something so easily seen as unreal and at the same time a legalistic cult.
I was 17 when I got to BYU and transferred to a different college 2000 miles away before the next academic year. 1:22:28
Thanks for not joining the LDS church. You sound too weak and confused to be a Mormon anyway. Here you are...dredging up 53 year-old memories and you're obviously still appalled and angry. I've heard therapy helps. I think you still have unresolved issues with the Mormons. Move on already...geez
Intelligent. Try being lied to your whole life, and see how you feel. You become grateful for men like Grant Palmer.
if this is all true it takes 1 hour to realize the church is false
Less than that. Once told that Jesus and Satan were brothers, I laughed so hard I nearly wet myself...!
God bless you for the truth you know. have you noticed the statue down town Salt Lake has his hands reaching out to the bank and back to the temple. ?
Before being baptized as a convert, I was told I had to agree not to question the church. Not a quote, but it was long ago. I remember asking my future spouse who was born into LDS, you never questioned, thought outside the box, even went to another church? I've had biblical experiences will call them since a child. Things irrelevant to me, some that were, and after joining/baptism, they hadn't gone away but I was keeping journals. I was told by an elder, destroy my journals. The bishop, at that area and another, after we'd moved both stated, "Women can not have visions or prophesies for anyone but their children" and husband and so on up. Mine began as a child. I looked at things different, was so devout, more than my spouse and I realized I wasn't hearing the words of God. but interpretations of man/men. I've yet to visit a service of any church and instead of topic of the day via a quote from scripture be the full story. It's only now, long been out of the church, away from, am I reading and looking for info on history and whys. I've never done anything but it is interesting any time I give my name to a missionary at my door over the years, they don't ever return. Not sure why I'm looking up the truth of mormonism today and after all these years. Some of what is taught and I hadn't learned yet were things I'd dreamed years ago even days ago. Not sure why I feel still such a hard time sharing those things, but for now, I keep it most to myself. Don't believe I'm the only one but to answer the question why don't members today have visions, I'm sure they do and it just isn't told to the rest. I don't think they are testimony to LDS being the one true, they're just visions an for probably for more than those of us that do get them. Unlike the words of men.
The real reason Mormons leave the Church?
They can no longer follow Saint'n...
This is very strengthening and encouraging to me. I am almost a year out, but my children are still in.
Hello have your children found the truth yet? God bless
I am not a Mormon, and never was. I learned about Mormonism decades ago in college. And I must say that I've always felt compassion for you people. Gradually, I have met more Mormons in real life who have always impressed me as being very sincere and wholesome people. I find this information very important because it is my hope to educate myself more about what it means to leave the Mormon faith. As a Catholic, I have learned my faith through many reputable and consistent teachers over the years. So the films I've seen produced by the LDS Church in a serious way about Joseph Smith, your founder, are quite entertaining.... but blatantly untrue in their content. The challenge for Christians like myself is knowing "how" to help Mormon friends who genuinely believe they are already in the true church of Jesus Christ. To do this in a spirit of Love and Compassion is not always easy. Patience and prayer are important. I want to encourage your community that just because you leave the LDS Church it does NOT mean other Christians will not accept you. We just need your courage to let us help you, if this is what you desire. God bless!
Joseph Smith is the second best cult leader after mohammed.
Again, another idiot who doesnt know what a cult is. If your going to bash a religion its better you dont come across as a moron.
@@darinwinn1640 hi. Maybe you should actually look into Smith and exactly how the whole thing started, and then the next 50 years. Especially the LDS under Brigham Young. It is also interesting to look into the group led by James Strang. Yes, it started out as a Christian based apocalyptic millinealist group and had morphed into a nonchristian cult by thie time Joseph and Hiram were murdered in Carriage.
@@justinmeasday8930 stupid reply. LDS and Strang group is like comparing Catholics and Lutherans. Moronic replys that LDS arent Christian or have their own Jesus. If you dont like it fine but dont create a false narrative.
@@darinwinn1640 you spastic reply is the false narrative. Why so pissy if you're right? 90 percent of the people in the world calling themselves Christian belong to group's that despite secondary differences, share a set of fundamental beliefs. Christianity and Mormanism have different beliefs at the fundamental level, therefore Mormonism is not Christian. An example is Christianity is monotheistic (one God,period)and Mormonism is polytheism. It doesn't get more basic than that, and the fundamental differences go on from there. I have found most LDS know very little reality about the first 60 years of their movement. Don't get too worked up, see you later.
@@justinmeasday8930 just saw this. Again stupid reply. If you read this please look up what a Christian is and if you know Justin explain it. Definition: "A Christian is a someone that follows the teachings of Jesus Christ." Justin's arguments becomes more more moronic when he claims it cant be polytheism because when Jesus is defined as a God and his Father is also defined as a God you have more then one God. Thus Christianity as he defines it doesn't meet his own narrow minded definition.
I'm happy to see some of the people get out from darkness.. Glory be to God.. Thank you Jesus..
I left October of 2021! It has been a hard journey to except you were lied to by people who claim to be followers of Christ. But to know him now and understand Grace is beyond amazing!
If you take out everything that is false you really have nothing left "no redeeming features"...even the good deeds the people do is mostly because they feel forced or threatened by losing status etc. My heart bleeds for these people.
also to the lady at the end, they are not homophobic. Scripture is scripture.
The speaker is background noise, the real start is mouth noises. Very irritating 😠
Truly one of the greatest orthodox men that has ever been in the church is Grant Palmer. One of the greatest lectures and speeches that I've ever heard.
Very impressive and well done! Way to go Grant !!!
Go get them, let's destroy this false cult!
I left the LDS church but sadly my family going back to its origin did not
Your ancestors weep for you.
Please make more videos like this with very learned members who provide some of the deepest insights.
I praise the Almighty God for each person I here that comes out of that church brings tears of joy and I thank God for you, each one of you, that have the courage and Faith in Christ to stand up and share your love and faith. I pray that each Mormon member would see the love in the way that you bring and share the evidence of the fraud of Joseph Smith. God will always bring success in your service to the Almighty and Faith in His Son Christ Jesus. I'm still working on my Brother in law and his family. They've done a bang up job on his brain washing but all things are possible with God. I love you all.
+GodfatherInOhio On behalf of Mormons everywhere, may I congratulate you on your exit from the church 25 years ago. We're always looking to get rid of our deadwood and misfits. You're obviously not strong enough. Thank you for clearing out so we didn't have to do it. Have a nice unaccountable life.
+John Lee fake
+Randy Crager Glad to hear that you understand the myth that is Mormonism. Smith was in EVERY sense a fraud. No one who truly believes the Bible would believe Smith and company....
Amen Randy! I too rejoice and give praise. All of heaven rejoices when people come out of religion and follow Jesus.
Robert, Mormonism is truly based upon "Joseph's Myth". But it astounds me that one man could have such a great impact over the centuries in building up such a false church.
God bless you brother!
Grant Palmer is truly a brilliant man ! And he was one of the very best and finest members the LDS church ever had ! They disfellowshipped the wrong guy ! He is a devout believer in Jesus ! I respect him a great deal.
To hear that Mormon “historians” are in leadership positions at University of Utah is very concerning. That’s the kind of stuff that gives the public reasons to distrust academia. And in this case, justifiably.
31:00 I can sympathize with "being taught to see through the eyes of the mind." in my peak of piousness which was actually quite an amazing time in my life, I perceived angels and I experienced at least two undeniable miracles beyond scientific explanation that to this day, even during this skeptic phase of my life, I will never deny.
I still believe in angels and miracles. It is faith, but not in the LDS church.
Grant Palmer is one of the greatest LDS type scholars I've ever read. His book Insider's View is brilliant ! it is most logical in a sea of ideas and formations of illogical theories that don't add up ! Grant's book and lectures are truly tipping the scale that the book of mormon is not to be trusted as an ancient book. There's just too much going against it. No hebrew dna in ancient book of mormon so called lands, KJB errors in the BOM. No artifacts in so called BOM lands.
Why I know it's all false: Members should have the right to know where their donated money is allocated and for what purposes, but it is cloaked. They also should have the right to seek out information outside Mormon sources. Clergy should be considered mandatory reporters of abuse, but they aren't. The church should NOT have political influences. The church should not be able to get away with business ventures, have connections to the stock market, and maintain its tax exempt, non-profit status. This is a FOR-profit corporation.
"Members should have the right to know where their donated money is allocated and for what purposes, but it is cloaked."
Your donations were used as follows: 60% to buy 10 rows of bricks for a church building in Norway, 20% to support a family of an ex-soldier in the US whose government had decided to freeze their wages for a while. 10% were used on travel expenses of a stake president who spent all weekend to support your branch, 10% were put on a savings account for tough times to come (and they are even gaining interest - just as the 10 talents mentioned in the bible).
"They also should have the right to seek out information outside Mormon sources." Like watching this video on youtube and reading comments.
"Clergy should be considered mandatory reporters of abuse, but they aren't."
Church handbook 1, section 17: "Church leaders and members should fulfill all legal obligations to report abuse to civil authorities. In some locations, leaders and teachers who work with children and youth are considered “mandated reporters” and must report abuse to legal authorities. Similarly, in many locations, any person who learns of abuse is required to report it to legal authorities."
"The church should NOT have political influences." But Christ is our King. Why not pray for governments to promote peace instead of war?
"The church should not be able to get away with business ventures, have connections to the stock market, and maintain its tax exempt, non-profit status."
How do you think, the church should build meeting houses and temples, distribute money to the needy, feed the hungry, etc, without being organized like a business? Even the laws require an organisation like a church to account for their monies. If it looks to you like a business - fair enough. I'd rather have some capable people handle that. And do you honestly think it would be fair to have your donation taxed again, after it has already been taxed by you? Do you think the church should not have employees to handle all its undertakings. Should those people not be paid? Should people that travel extensively to run church affairs not be reimbursed for their travel cost? How did the early apostles of Christ live? Did not the other saints care for them, make sure they had accomodation and food? Did the saints not look after the travellers' families and provide for them, while the apostles were away? Do you consider allowance and reimbursement as profit?
Another thought: Try to pay out money to those in need, if your pockets are empty. I have seen the church help in many cases that you don't know about, giving freely and without judgement, and without talking about it.
"This is a FOR-profit corporation." Yes, and mankind profits! Actually I think the creation of the world was a for-profit, or better for-benefit, untertaking.
The church should never audit their followers over tithings or ask them to bring in tax returns. If their findings show you owe the church money, they will give them a loan with interest. Really? Wake Up 👀 This is wrong.
I don't care what the church does with the money. That is their stewardship. Mine was to give 1/10th... That's it. And I am blessed because I do that.
@@MrNirom1 cool bro, maybe go find another commenter to troll with your self-righteous garbage?
@@elyssapissa LOL I say the way I feel and I have you to call me self-righteous? You left the church... but you just can't leave it alone. Like you have God's word. Thing is... I do have God's word.
While it is natural to be angry when we feel we have been deceived, and we have . . . we need to work on forgiving . . . for anger, judgment and criticism, on either side of the argument, disconnects us from the spirit and the help we need to recover. It takes a lot o courage to face the fact we have been living a lie and I admire those who face it and move on. It is a long painful process, I know, and we need all the spiritual help we can get. I am grateful I have moved out of the LDS box, and now having moved past the anger, can be grateful for what I learned while there. I have learned to forgive the deception, and myself for buying into it. This is the truth that sets me free. Anything not done in love is not of God. Anything that is, is of God. I think it is that simple. Paul implies this in 1 Cor.
+Claudia Nelson On behalf of good Mormons everywhere, let me congratulate you on your exit from the Mormon Church. You saved us the trouble of throwing you out! We're always looking to get rid of the deadwood and misfits anyway. You're too weak and self absorbed to be among us. Have a nice unaccountable life.
+John Lee Dude relax, we are all Gods children and are entitled to chose our own path. If Claudia feels this way she is entitled. I don't agree with her beliefs but we can all discuss what we believe in a civil manner.
+Dale James Just congratulating her...is that a problem?
+Claudia Nelson On behalf of the REAL Church of the Living God, I congratulate you on your decision to leave the Mormon myth. I pray that the Christ of the Bible will reign in your heart as you have faith in Him.
+Robert Allison Nice try...lame ass!
He would tell the 14 year olds that if they didn’t let him have his way with them god would be angry at them or that if they did god would be very happy with them. Very similar to the homie up at Waco.
The original Warren Jeffs
Thomas Furgeson
He raised $225,000 for the field work, incorporated the Foundation (being an attorney), assisted in the initial explorations in Central America and Mexico and has actively directed the affairs of the Foundation since its inception." quote from a religious site.
The King Benjamin thing is wild
Religion was invented when the first con man met the first fool, Mark Twain
I think this is great for this video, particularly the parts that say: "That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine", "Let no corrupt communication proceed out of your mouth", "...the old man, which is corrupt according to the deceitful lusts", "...as the Gentiles walk... being alienated from the life of God through the ignorance... because of the blindness of their heart". That's exactly why we contend for the faith against Mormonism
Love this guy. Want his book
Here it is, a year later. I wonder if "John Lee" is still trolling, pretending to be a Mormon and being the absolute opposite of what a Christian is said to be like. Or maybe he really is a Mormon, the kind that gives it a black eye! But even if he were a nice person, which he gives no evidence of, he'd still be wrong. Most Mormons actually are nice people, though thoroughly deluded. As are all folks who believe in any religion.
Oh yea, he's still around, trolling. I tend to believe that, as you wrote "he really is a Mormon, the kind that gives it a black eye!". There are a couple more like him that comes to mind and that's henochparks and Justin ("wise up") Snyder.
+rational guy You've just listed the LDS "Three Stooges"....Lee, Justin and Parks.
The 3 stooges of our time :)
So they were seer stones and he was the stone seer?
Grant Palmer is one of the most brilliant authors that has ever been in the church! A great video indeed ! Truthful truly! A very brilliant scholar ! And in- deed one that brings out truth and not fiction! He is headed in the right direction in the fight for truth ! Of course you can't cover the whole book of mormon and get inside Joseph Smith's head and know every detail of his plagiarism. But as Grant stated about 3/4th was done in his own back yard sort of speak!
Grant is a brilliant author and will be hearlded and being one of the greatest members of the LDS church very similar to Galileo! Though it might take many years when more and more evidence comes out of the fraudulence of the BOM!
thetiler Palmer is no Galileo. His research is flawed, and conclusions are driven by his agenda.
Will just have to agree to disagree :^)
I am having an issue with my posting. Cannot do a paste. Do a google search on "george cobabe fair" where he give a summary of five reviews on Palmer.
I have to say it again. Truly, truly one of the greatest men to have ever graced the doors of the LDS CHURCH ! A GREAT MAN! SPIRITUAL, AND A FOLLOWER OF JESUS IN THE TRUE SENSE OF THE WORD!
I've left the LDS Church and I much appreciated Palmers book ( may he rest in peace) I'm glad I was able to leave no only Mormonism, but religion and theism behind .
Did you left because of JS’s actions or do you know that the gospel is not true?
The only thing that jumped into and stuck in my head throughout the entire video was 'Wow, Smith was just like Muhammad of Islam, just not as succesful.". These people lacked the strength of character that Jesus Christs had, even to the point of sheer immorality.
I know! "Angel appearing, saying: - All the others are wrong, please write a book and start a new religion"
The resemblance is remarkable..
You are just as bad as all of them. ‘My religion is the best and most true’ etc. You are not getting the point. What do you know about Islam or any other world religion? Monotheism (one God for example as in Judaism) and this idea replaced the worship of many Gods in many different belief systems in that part of the world . Then came Christianity as an iteration in this process of ‘successfulness’ (in some parts of the world). Who are you to say this process stopped with Jesus? It’s only your personal conviction. And to go on about immorality in other religions takes first prize in the hypocrisy competition - think child molesting catholic priests, think grifting evangelical mega churches and the plethora of false prophets multiplying in that particular religious subculture.
Same. Totally same. So many similarities that it's disturbing. I think it hints at the real source - Satan. The founder of the JWs is similar in how he got his "revelation" from an angelic being.
I have a Traumatic Brain Injury. Mormons took away my freedom and hope. They are so hard to get away from!!!
...so is your whining...
@@johnlee1352 6 years later I say thanks for your understanding, LOL!!!
The mormon organization will never go completely away. There will always be people who want to follow someone or something-it doesn’t have to make sense.
Thanks for sharing this.
We also have the 116 missing pages.
This was fascinating. We attended a Methodist church when I was younger, and it had long struck me that there seem to be a lot of parallels between Methodist practices and beliefs and Mormonism. How interesting that this former Mormon traces so much of the Book of Mormon back to Joseph Smith's association with Methodism.
Having a very open mind my spiritual path has been that of comparative religion. I have read Hinduism, Buddhism, Muslim, shamanism of Indigenous people around the world. I have also read Christian history, orthodoxy and otherwise and I must say I learned from them all. It is with this open mind I approached The Book of Mormon and I found that not only was it historically inaccurate but more importantly the Spirit of Life was not within it.
5:50 he makes it to pulpit
Just looking like into a crystal ball and seeing what's in the crystal similar is looking into the hat and with searstone depending on object so he can see visions in mind
After listening to the interview carefully two more times I owe brother Palmer an apology for using the words "revelation from God". Sorry brother, I was too prejudiced. I take your advise in making the Christ as the center of my life.
If a cult adds to Gods' Word, then they believe His Word is not good enough. Must have theirs as well. That is the warning. I only accept the Bible as Gods' Word, not Books of Mormon, Korans and the other add ons . They were written to support the cults beliefs if they couldn't support them from Gods' Word. I worked with a Mormon. He tried teaching me about there being many gods. That is blasphemy and I rejected those false teachings totally.
Hey Plume. What does "God's Word" mean to you? Is God behind every letter and word as if he wrote it himself? Is it a prophets writing down what he felt God was revealing to him, both or something else? Please read Genesis 1 specifically verse 26, Genesis 11 and specifically verse 6 and 7, Psalm 82:1-2, Psalm 136:2,3. Can you tell me your interpretation of these scriptures that seem to indicate multiple Gods or others with God who are also referred to as gods? Thank you
Plume, I'm not sure you answered my questions. so the bible that mentions plural gods means what to you? If the bible is God's word then what is he saying in the scriptures I mentioned? What do you believe about the other writings and books that the Catholic Church decided not to include in the bible we have today?
plume2035 The Bible is full of it, too.
mormonthink.com/scienceweb.htm#noah
what do you say about the dead sea scrolls add ons? what about the scripture which says . take one stick and write upon it for the house upon it for the house of juda and take another stick and write upon it for the house of ephraime and they shall be one in your hand. what about all the scattered tribes of israel did the lord just forget about them or did he speak to them and if so do you think he would tell them to write what he told them .unlike the rest of the world joseph smith was comanded to write all that he was shown or had revealed to him so that you will have no excuse that it was not given to you all the world can see and read and compare it to the bible wich by the way we also believe in in as far as it is corectly translated the vatican holds the key to all your questions as they have all the lost scriptures in their possetion
Well when we die we will all know for sure and if you are right, I will not lose anything as we will cease to exist. If I am right, which is my belief, then I have everything to gain. You may have a lot to lose though and I would prefer not going down that path as you may not appreciate it. But after-all, it would be your decision. I am glad you know for sure and with 100% certainty that God will not be there to meet you upon death. It must have taken you a long time to know everything. That is the only way you could be 100% sure. I will only accept that from people who know everything about everything, as anything less may have missed God. For now, I will take God's Word over that of a mere man who thinks he knows everything. I certainly do not.
Jesus wants your heart, not your religion.
🙌🏻💟✝️💟🙌🏻
The rest of the story is the true Church.Its apostolic, one, founded by Christ and 2000 years old (the gates of hell have not prevailed against her Matthew 16-18).Do the math.
Then why have so many died at the hands of this church? Murder seems satanic to me. Care to elucidate?
I feel so sorry for mormons the devil has them blinded so that they can't see the truth
I would be careful saying stuff like that. Many people rejected the prophets of old times saying things like they are mad or they are possessed of a devil. The pharisees and sadducees themselves condemned Christ for working miracles by the devil. They also condemned the apostles of blasphemy and persecuted them. The people of Rome also persecuted the Christians, one of the reasons being that they thought the Christians were a cult because they did ordinances in private. They didn't understand that it was private because it was sacred. Look it up, it's in the history books. You may not believe that the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints is the true church of Christ, but you better be careful of what you condemn.
Christopher Martin when i was a kid in primary i did a 2.5 minute talk it was called money is the root of all evil this i did when i was 9 i have been out of the mormon church for 38 years and have never looked back until now when the internet and computer technology can pull the records of the court house in palmyra ny and navoo ill. and anyone can see the truth for them selves there are programs run to take apart the bom and to put it back to the books it came out of or any other plagiarized book for that matter there is nothing here from god it is all by men and nothing more
lewis irvine I feel sorry for you since you think that there's even a devil.
Christopher Martin It's ok for someone to exercise their discernment & express concern over whether a church is true or not. You failed to ask Lewis why he believes what he does - so it's wrong to assume he is avoiding truth for secret reasons, like the pharisees.
Erin Mackley Well, I'm only human and imperfect, I will of course fail at some things or even many things. Are you a member of the Church or familiar with it? If not I simply invite you to attend a meeting on Sunday and investigate to see for yourself whether the church is lead by the devil or led by God. I can promise you that you will be uplifted and draw closer to God if you have a real intent to seek for the truth. You will feel the Spirit, who is the testator of all truth. I know that God does live and speaks to HIs children and will impart truth to them if they seek. I know Jesus Christ is my Redeemer and died for my sins because He loves me. I know He has restored His Gospel in the last days to prepare for His coming. I simply invite you and anyone who reads this to see for yourself, to read the Book of Mormon which is another testimony of Jesus Christ, and to attend the Church. I testify that it is the Kingdom of God on earth and is lead by the Savior Himself.
This was the only church I thought was true. Now I don’t find any church to be true.
Mormon's ask yourself. If gold the size of a brick cannot be lifted with one hand, how much do you think the entire plates weighed which were more than twice this size. It would have been impossible for Joseph Smith to have carried those plates and run from the enemies, as he said. Unless of course, an angel helped he carry it. l-o-l
"Mormon's ask yourself. If gold the size of a brick cannot be lifted with one hand, how much do you think the entire plates weighed which were more than twice this size."
The answer is really quite simple, your assumptions are incorrect ==>>
1. You are assuming, with your solid brick example, that the plates were a solid block. Actually it was comprised of many thin leaves of metal bound together, and not a solid block.
2. You are assuming that they were pure gold. Actually the witnesses said that the plates "had the appearance of gold". They were made of a gold alloy.
The witnesses hefted and handled the plates and said they were about 40-50 pounds. Emma Smith was able to move the plates so that she could do her housekeeping.
Joseph Smith was a farm hand, and certainly could handle a 50 pound load.
Thanks for asking.
cdowis I've read about the witnesses. They all said they only saw the plates with their spiritual eyes. What does this even mean. Either they saw them or not. spiritual eyes would imply they did not actually see the plates but only had faith they existed. Do yur research on your own religion if you are to comment on such things.
Jbeliski
"they only saw the plates with their spiritual eyes."
Rather than reading the anti-Mormon version, let's read what they actually said:
Be it known unto all nations, kindreds, tongues, and people, unto whom this work shall come: That Joseph Smith, Jun., the translator of this work, has shown unto us the plates of which hath been spoken, which have the appearance of gold; and as many of the leaves as the said Smith has translated we did handle with our hands; and we also saw the engravings thereon, all of which has the appearance of ancient work, and of curious workmanship. And this we bear record with words of soberness, that the said Smith has shown unto us, for we have seen and hefted, and know of a surety that the said Smith has got the plates of which we have spoken. And we give our names unto the world, to witness unto the world that which we have seen. And we lie not, God bearing witness of it.
quod.lib.umich.edu/cgi/m/mormon/mormon-idx?type=DIV0&byte=3882
Dan Vopgel wrote this in an article about the witnesses of the BOM, and I discussed this on another forum. I asked him several times to document this statement regarding the eight witnesses and he was unable to do so.
Basically he said it just made sense that's what happened. IOW, he just made it up.
Anyway, you have to decide who is telling the truth..
Jbeliski
It is not known whether the gold plates were pure gold, or a gold alloy. No survey was ever attempted. If they were hammered, and not rolled, then there was probably quite a bit of space between the pages, as they would not fit closely together. I've seen the box where the plates were kept; they couldn't have been as large as the standard description. Perhaps the rings were that large, but the plates themselves had to be much smaller to fit in that box. If memory serves, the box was only 5.5 " thick at its thickest point, with the hinges straining. Then it tapered down to 3.5 to 4". Add that to the fact that Joseph Smith was a tall strong farmer, who challenged many but never lost at wrestling, and it becomes apparent that it was entirely plausible.
Only one of the witnesses continually stated that he saw it with his "spiritual" eyes, and there is no indication from his testimony that the experience was imaginary or somehow not real. We can't pretend to know what he saw, but it was enough that he never sought the 10,000 dollar reward that was offered to any witness who would recant. Some of the witnesses held the Book of Mormon on their laps and turned the pages.
*****
>>t is not known whether the gold plates were pure gold, or a gold alloy.
Several individuals who lifted the plates said they weighed between 40-50 pounds. Obviously that was an alloy.
>>spiritual eyes
You are correct ==>> The three witnesses saw the plates in a vision, but the eight witnesses handled the plates, hefted them, and looked at the engravings.
Indeed this "spiritual eyes" account was written by a third party decades later. We don't really know exactly what the witness used those words.
On April 6, 1840, Orson wrote, “I was appointed, in company with Elder John E. Page, to go on a mission to Jerusalem”. A week later, Orson left for what would be a three year mission. On October 24, 1841, Orson stood on the Mount of Olives and consecrated Palestine for the gathering of Judah in the last days.
While Orson was gone, Marinda, “had to live in a little log house whose windows had no glass but in place of which were pieces of greased paper...A little cornmeal and a few groceries were all the provisions remaining to sustain her and the little ones.”. Noting Marinda’s living conditions, Joseph Smith received the following revelation dated December 2, 1841: “Verily thus saith the Lord unto you my servant Joseph. that inasmuch as you have called upon me to know my will concerning my handmaid Nancy Marinda Hyde Behold it is my will that she should have a better place prepared for her than that in which she now lives...and let my handmaid Nancy Marinda Hyde hearken to the counsel of my servant Joseph in all things whatsoever he shall teach unto her...”
Marinda soon moved to a better home. In the Spring of 1842 she married Joseph. In Joseph’s diary is a list of his marriages. It includes the entry: “Apr 42 Marinda Johnson to Joseph Smith.”. Eight months later, in December, Orson returned from his mission.
What a nice guy that Joe Smith was, eh?
+dee hee LIAR
+Michael Parks DUMBASS!
I would say it's likely that Joe gave Marinda a nice cuddle.
+John Hylton.....Joe was a pussy getting PIMP!
if I am a Mormon,I will never attend any kind of church if I decided to leave the church.I will just wait for the 2nd coming, pray to God and endure to the end of my life
God will spit you out if you become lukewarm. not attending a church is a foolish idea.
Is there a parallel between the Killing of Laban and the Attempt on Gov. Boggs???
2) I've read direct quotes from the Pearl of Great Price and other writings of both Joseph Smith and Brigham Young that support each of these doctrinal statements. If I am wrong please correct me, but know I will find the quotes and post them. Mormons require faith outside of evidence, but true faith is one that is BACKED UP by the evidence. True faith is in the truth, and believe me I haven't found a single teaching of the Mormon Church that has any truck with the truth.
I have listened to a few of the Exmo discussions to understand better why intelligent folks don't leave a faith group that had deceived them. What I seem to have learned is that if the leadership had any brains they would realize the falsehoods that they perpetrate. But since they don’t, their dishonesty thus defines their character and nature.
just finished watching this video. learned quite a bit I wasn't aware of. can only imagine what is out there on the net.
There was a person that stated Thomas Furgeson was not an archeologist.
But I have to say Sir William Petrie was home schooled and did not have a degree. So it isn't written in stone that one has to have a degree to become an archeologist !