A Tongan Mormon Story - Saane Siale Pt. 1 | Ep. 1771
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- Опубліковано 1 сер 2024
- Today John Dehlin is joined by Tongan Mormon, Saane Siale, with special guests Nate Byrd from BYU’s Black Menaces, and Beau Oyler, her former Bishop, as they delve into the unique experiences and challenges faced by racial minorities within Mormonism. They discuss the integration of Mormonism into Tongan culture, the complexities of being part of an ethnic ward, and the impact of white beauty standards on individuals of color. They also explore the internalized racism and the pursuit of academic excellence within marginalized communities, shedding light on the need for advocacy and social justice. Don't miss out on this insightful conversation as Saane shares her journey, from her upbringing to her awakening as an activist, while grappling with her faith and preparing for her future at BYU.
Part 2 here: • Seeking Social Justice...
Episode Show Notes: www.mormonstories.org/podcast...
00:00:00 Intro Intentions & Themes
00:05:55 Family background
00:08:15 How the Church ended up with a lot of members of the Church in Tonga
00:21:00 Integration of Mormonism in Tongan culture in California
00:22:30 Is there a beauty in Tongan Mormon culture, but also a loss of traditional culture
00:30:00 Saane’s parents feel that “palangi” (white) wards are better/more organized than polynesian wards
00:43:00 Saane remembers supporting Prop 8 without fully understanding its implications for LGBTQ people and their families
00:57:00 Saane’s activist awakening to issues in diversity and marginalization as Christ-like
01:08:45 How was Seminary, Mutual, dances, etc. Mormon teen life.
01:14:00 Success & righteousness associated with whiteness
01:30:00 Saane acknowledges the costs and benefits of her internalized racism
01:34:00 Parents picking and choosing when to be proud to be Tongan vs idealizing white culture
01:37:30 Women of color just not part of her experience in Mormonism
01:42:30 Saane describes the betrayal of finding out more of the racist history while serving on her mission.
01:45:40 Why Saane’s upbringing would seem successful by Mormon standards
01:56:00 More on how Saane got interested in activism through history in high school
02:24:45 Duality of Anti-blackness among Polynesians along with adoption of much of black culture
02:34:00 Uniqueness of Saane as advocate at such a young age while still faithfully Mormon
02:38:00 How is Saane viewing her future as she is graduating High School and prepping to go to BYU
___________________
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Love seeing POC folks on Mormon stories. Please more BIPOC stories 🥹🖤
Poc? Excuse me. But I have to ask. What is poc?
@@user-nd5ud7bh3jpeople of colour
So glad Siale has expressed and exposed the blindness of racism and discrimination within our own Polynesian members and towards us by the church system. Goes to show just how much colonization has really hindered our people to be ultimately proud of our heritage, success and skin. This sad mindset is also strong down here in NZ.
Mormons believe black people will turn white in heaven.
Very much so
Delighted to hear a Tongan female story! So refreshing. I’m glad that Pacific Islands are being represented on your channel.
My daughter is just a year older than Saane. Hearing the discussion about prop 8 - this is when my daughter finally left the church. I had left a few years before but she had friends in the church and would be invited to activities. Her last one was a movie night that turned into a lesson about prop 8 and taking leaflets to be distributed to non members. She called me immediately and asked me to pick her up and she never returned. We have always been allies and supporters of the LGBTQ+ community and she, at 13 knew what they were doing was wrong. Couldn’t have been more proud of her.
I resonate with her story so much. I was a brown girl in a white family in a white branch and knew these three things: I would only be happy if I was married 2. The happy Mormon families had a cute white mom with long hair and a clean cut white dad 3. I was a second class member and not worthy of that Such heartbreak for teenage me.
Definitely
This is so fascinating, you rarely hear anything about Tonga at all. I had no idea the Mormon church was so powerful in Polynesia. Also as someone who grew up in a pretty poor area, I agree education is the single most important thing to break cycles of poverty, its why so many cults and high demand religion deny it to their members.
She is so insightful and has such strong leadership and communication skills. Excited for part 2!
I so appreciate Saane’s appreciation and fight for blacks. She so eloquently speaks about why it’s important for all minorities for fight for civil rights.. blacks normally lead the fights, but our fights are for all POC.
It’s sad when POC separate themselves bc we’re all viewed the same.
Finally! So happy this demographic is being represented!!!!
Saane is such a beautiful soul! Thank you for highlighting her story!! My favorite Mormon Story so far!
non mormon. I cannot express enough how much your posts have helped me with processing both the good, and the horror of organized religion on all sides. The comfort of ritual and the hell of corruption. Thank you, endlessly for honoring both. It is both heartbreaking and inspiring.💕
So many hard questions! Love her openness to share and educate.
What a great perspective… She is definitely a leader!
Nate made some confronting but excellent points toward the end of this discussion. I really appreciate the courage of all the participants in this episode. 🙏🏻
There is a pervasive feeling of LDS being an exclusive club and many people don’t fit into their ideal. Even as a white woman, I experienced some isolation and ostracization within the LDS church. As a convert from age 12, my parents were not members. We also didn’t have much money. As a teen, I didn’t feel truly accepted by my LDS peers. They all came from multi-generational Mormon families. I envied them. Prior to my LDS membership, I had a similar experience with the Brownies/Girl Scouts. At age 8, I went to a school in L.A. that had a majority population of wealthy kids who lived in Beverly Hills, Bel Air and Westwood areas. I joined the Brownies troop with my friends from school. After attending a couple of times, the Brownie leader told my mom that I should join a troop of kids in another area with children of my socioeconomic class and single moms. I cried at the thought of not being able to be with my friends and my mom was insulted by the insinuation that we weren’t good enough for that Brownie troop. The practice of exclusion, is not isolated to Mormonism. It exists wherever there are humans. However, if the church wants to be a moral leader and represent the best of Christ’s teachings, they need to continue efforts toward inclusion. That means actively fighting for gender, race and socioeconomic equality.
2:27:39 What John is not understanding is the inherent identity tied to Polynesian culture and customs that is a deep part of our upbringing whether we are brought up among other Polynesians or not. He has even encountered it as he mentioned at the beginning about finding it difficult to get poly guests on. She may have grown up in a white community/ward but she still has a close connection and tie to her poly roots and community.
Next to address: the anti black attitudes in poly communities (which absolutely exists) I think relates to our frequently being mistaken for black or mislabeled by others as black. So two things happen. First, we cling to our identity (which is a very big part of our lives as previously described). Second, we distance ourselves from the black identity/community because we are trying to move up the privilege ladder since we know the historical and current racism faced by black people. We tel ourselves our culture and our people are loved by the white world. It is horrible and needs to be called out. We do this in relation to the church as well. She may not remember being called lamanite because many Polynesians argue we are decedents of lehi that left the Americas to explore the ocean. Total make believe but whatever.
It’s make believe because Lehi didn’t exist. But that’s a point we will always disagree on.
You’ve demonstrated my points wonderfully. I really don’t need to say anymore to explain to all the white readers the general perspective of LDS Polynesians regarding black people. It’s a fear based outlook resulting from our adjacent physical features and minority association. Our culture is loved by the white world- a true fact. And many (like you) cling to this as point of privilege.
My ancestry in the church goes back 5 generations in New Zealand so I can name plenty of times the church has been beneficial. You’re absolutely right about that.
Yup, I definitely didn’t leave belief. All the beautiful parts of the church: community, faith in others, love and moral guide to all my interactions and decisions are still with me. They are just based in a desire to be a good human, rather than a belief that it will change my afterlife. To each their own.
That’s fine. I honestly have no idea what point you’re trying to make. I think I’ve been exceptionally clear.
Firstly, the sainthood of Mother Theresa is under debate.
I’m sorry but I don’t see how the non existence (or non belief) in an afterlife makes every human action purposeless. You’re not giving humanity much credit. Listen, I want Hitler tortured for all eternity as much as the next guy but I’m not going to throw morality out the window because I don’t think it will happen. Religious belief has not stopped the same people from doing atrocious things like torture, slavery, genocide, you name it (Even among Mormons) So I really don’t see strong evidence that believing in heavenly judgement leads to more moral actions. Or that non belief leads to immoral actions.
As many an atheist will likely tell you, the fact that one doesn’t believe in an afterlife actually makes all actions more moral because we make them for no reward but to better the world we live in and leave behind. That is the difference between living a humane life and living an evil life. And it is significant. We live to counter the Hitlers of the world because that’s what good people do. There doesn’t need to be some special place of judgement looking over humanity’s shoulders. We should be a moral species because we want to leave the world better and kinder and healthier than when we walked it. And make our own lives pretty happy in the process too.
I’m totally for you believing in God and believing heaven and all that jazz. But please don’t diminish my purpose in life just because it’s not your purpose.
It was interesting when he mentioned giving up Tongan culture to become Mormon. The only thing is they went from Methodist to Mormon so it was already a done deal. Methodist is a more milk toast religion but still, not native Tongan culture by a long shot.
So happy to hear this one! I’m a never Mo living in Oakland since “92. I live pretty close to the temple and had a Tongan Mormon family as neighbors across the street for a number of years. We had a battle of the signs during prop 8. They put up a vote yes sign, so we put up a poster board that said vote no. The next day they had 19 vote yes signs in their yard. So we got a 4’x8’ piece of plywood and painted a huge vote no sign that you could see from a block away. Nevertheless we were good neighbors to each other. A couple years ago, one of the sons told me he didn’t realize what it was about - like Saane is saying. He apologized. It’s great to hear Saane’s story.
I grew up near that temple decades ago. Best memories ever there. Oakland was magical decades ago. Beautiful and peaceful.
I think Saani’s father was a progressive with the way he raised them. Good for him. He is the exception and not the rule.
Thank you, Saane for sharing your story. I live in a stake with a Tongan ward and I appreciate your perspective and learning more about the Tongan and island cultures
I was baptized into the church in 2021. I left shortly after, and only recently returned. Mormon Stories has been with me through everything. Saane’s story is the only story that I have been able to get my faithful LDS friends to actually watch, and deeply deeply appreciate. Saane’s story has pushed leaders in my stake and ward to actually take a step back, acknowledge the wrongdoings of the church, and start to initiate change. If that doesn’t speak volumes to the importance of Saane’s story, I don’t know what will. Her story is a solid and deep reminder for me on why I will never consider myself a faithful member. I still attend to support friends, and past mentors that are moving up in rank, but besides that, I will never follow the teachings of The Church of Jesus Christ of Ladder Day Saints.
So grateful you all talked about the duality of antiblackness in the Tongan/Poly community. I have so much love for the Poly community but at the same time I’ve been called the N word (hard R ofc) more times than I can count, had my blackness mocked, and was on the receiving end of racist jokes for years by Polynesian people, all while they went on and on about how much they loved black music and culture. Thanks for acknowledging that this exists, cause it’s a real problem that hurts a lot of us. ♥️🤟🏾
Such a great interview! Saane is a powerful young person, and I can’t wait to hear more of her impressive journey!
I grew up in Oakland decades ago. Sweetest memories ever. We watched the Mormon Oakland temple being built near our humble home. The missionaries found my family many years later and our family changed forever upon joining something I deeply regret to this day. The leaders of this organization lied to its converts about EVERYTHING and that is so heartbreaking 💔
I’m loving this so much! One of my dearest friends is 1/2 Tahitian. Different islands I know but she had similar experiences.
Also I met Bo at Bill’s event last Tuesday. So happy to know he was such an awesome bishop for her. ❤
Hungry for more content talking with such great people like this!
Very interesting story so much to unpack! The Polynesian islands are and always were God Loving People. So when the LDS missionaries came to our islands in the 1800’s it wasn’t hard to convert to the LDS faith because we already knew God, loved him and family was essential to us. The missionaries saw we already are faithful, deep in heritage and trusted in God. God preserved our people So anything that had to do with God and family was important to our lives. We love being members of the LDS faith!
It’s great to see how racial boundaries are decaying. Nowadays, many people don’t really care about your ethnicity when it comes to friendships etc… there’s still growth to be done, but I’m happy it’s trending in the right direction.
What an awesome interview. Saane is a legend.👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼🌹🌹🌹🌹
Saane you are an amazing woman. 👏 🎉 Thank you for sharing your story.
so excited to see this today! was literally thinking the other day how i would love to see a polynesian story. thank you Saane for sharing your story!
John I really loved this one, it was particularly outstanding. These 3 were credible and not without humour. I love the vibe around these 3, their interactions with eachother and you was palpably cohesive. Well done to ALL (& that includes your dear self). Maybe Margi can look in on part 2.
Looking forward to this Talanoa ❤
She's sooooo beautiful...hard to believe she wasn't being hounded by a herd of YM. Smart, adorable....❤
This is what we’ve all been waiting for. Cant wait to hear her story
Great conversation. I grew up in the Bay Area and can relate to so much of this story.
About Time my Polyz represent!!
Saane is such an inspiring person.
I could listen to Saane’s laugh all day.
Saane, I am so grateful for your authenticity and taking time to share your story.
The best learning experience in my life everwas to leave my cocoon and live as a different color minority for 10 years in a different country. I learned ideals that I carried like the white savior mentality and for that I do apologize and more life-changing lessons than I can mention here. I also won’t say I think I understand your situation but I do wish every white person in the world could have the wonderful learning experience that I had living as a minority.
I also applaud you for supporting BLM, LGBT+ rights and all things decent. I would be proud to stand beside you anytime. You have good things coming in your future.
I pray that you take care of yourself knowing you are heads and tails above anyone you met at BYU or on your mission. I bill scream loudly screaming “dogma be damned.” I hope your own beautiful soul is always your first concern with your activism support when your life allows. Your story has reinforced in me so many good lessons. Your friend Swanee.
There are “Polynesian “ stakes in Utah county with both Samoan and Tongan wards. It’s actually part of a Tongan stake. They started these wards because of the language barrier. I remember attending the first Tongan branch in Los Angeles. Back in the 70’s. Most of those members migrated to SLC. Because they were led to believe that SLC is Zion. 🤷🏽♀️
What a great episode!
I was cheering during basically every single part after 2:00:00. I was cooking lunch alone in my kitchen and NOT cheering in Target this time, but this podcast goes so hard sometimes!
John, I love what you asked in reference to the Lamanites, curse, etc.
2:31:00 my fake ex-best friend is a Samoan who was born and raised largely in the islands now lives in Tx and frankly has bought into the implicit racism of the far right and that goes for his huge family too. I attribute that to the church and how "conservative Christian" values they pick up in church are still largely influenced by Eurocentric American culture built upon white supremacy of American made protestant socioreligious structures.
@@vaingamaliet252 IT CAME FROM HIS MOUTH. Oh well - the bit dog barks in your case.
Let's not forget, everyone, that Fox News labelled Lego brand as "woke" for producing toys to represent those with disabilities. One can only conclude that Vaingamalie T here opposes the handicapped because of those words "woke ideology". See how that works when you parrot out catch words of the far-right wypipo supremacist bigots? People conclude you are a bigot too. You need to learn to express yourself with more in-depth thoughts instead of giving yourself away as a follower who cannot think for yourself.
"honored, humbled and impressed" as JD says at the end, ,Saane is superhuman and should be sainted.
She’s so humble! ❤ powerful discussion. So grateful for Mormon Stories.
Ummm news flash to Mormons ❤ Jesus Christ had dark brown skin!
I really pray and have a vision that the “true church” becomes more like Jesus…. Inclusive, equality, loving, compassionate and truly a prophet of God!
This young lady is a true disciple of Jesus Christ!
I admire her strength and humility! Wow just wow ❤
Hallelujah……You actually said it …..
Also on a similar subject….Can I say , now I live in India “ oh my god it’s so Indian? “ “ all very brown “? NO …….It would be so disrespectful…..
I am dirt poor but have beautiful HUMAN BEINGS as friends regardless of colour….who I love
Not many of us black people here ……Not a problem
I completely relate to Saani’s experience as a Pacific Islander in the white-centered church. I’m nevermo but felt this growing up in the non-denominational Christian church.
So many of us Polynesians need a powerful leader such as saane
Really excited to see this! There was a huge population of togan people in my stake growing up and in my girls camp❤❤ i allways though their culture was beautiful and always got chill hearing them sing in their language. Im happy to see a tongan woman perspective ❤❤
It is amazing to see other religions accepting all people. I had a similar experience being in another country and instead of everyone around hyperfocused about races it was more about the country I was born.
What I don't understand is in the age of not colonizing places encompassing territories and other cultures, is it absolutely necessary to send people on missions to other lands??Let the native people mix in the other religion if they choose and then a religion e.g. Mormonism could invite them to live as a missionary amongst them without invading the indigenous cultures religion.
The percentage of Mormons in Tonga is certainly high, but not half as much as LDS Inc claims. In the 2016 Census, less than 20% of Tongans self identified as LDS... (A far cry from the 60% bragged by Salt Lake.) Inflated numbers in Mexico, Brazil, Chile and the Philippines have also been proved wrong by national censuses.
it's hard to make statistics on tongans because they are too subjective in their thinking..meaning one day they'll probably associate with a regular orthodox catholic tongan church, then the next month start attending the tongan mormon church because their friends go there.
@@djugly-jq5pe I see, there is some fluidity. Which only shows that Mormonism is far from being the overwhelming majority in Tonga that Mormons LOVE to boast...
@@hildabingen8100go there and see for youself
Loved hearing her share her story!! ❤
So glad to hear her speak on the odd balance that many immigrant people have of "I'm proud to be X, but go white people." I've seen it so much in the Latino community and it's so difficult to bring up and address. Many people see it as a purely material issue of wanting financial success and making decisions based on that. However, they don't always want to acknowledge how that mindset perpetuates white supremacist values and furthers stigmatization of marginalized communities (including their own).
I really resonated with her story so much 💕
Let me premise, that I am hooked on Mormon Stories and love the work u do. In this interview, you never allowed her to tell her story. First, you basically grilled her about the LDS Tongan culture. The rest of the interview, it was question, clarify, “is this what you meant?” Over and over. Everything she said was clear. It didn’t need to be clarified. Also, she is there to tell Her story, not as an expert to educate you. “Why would the white LDS boys not ask you to dance.” Please, John, you must know the answer!
Oh my gosh, I love Saane and all three guests. If I had gotten to know her when I was a teen in young women, I might have stayed in longer (I left at age 16). And this progressive Bishop, wow, if I had had him as my Bishop, I might have stayed longer. There are some very positive things within LDS culture, but boy, I cannot reconcile the persistent sexism and racism. The church needs to
evolve.
Yay! California in the house!! I’m in San Jose and I grew up in Los Angeles area
Saane, your represented yourself, your family and your Tongan experience with grace and pride. Thank you for your story and I hope it will help other Polynesians especially Tongans share their Mormon Story. 'Ofa lahi atu!
I am so happy and grateful for your hard work, dedication, and spiritual wisdom!
Beautiful Siale!
Sanne needs to run for President! Sorry if I spelled her name wrong.❤
Thank you so mcuh for sharing your story, you have an infectious laugh and personality! I'm grateful for the things you brought up, I never knew that Pacific Islanders were exploited as farmers for example 😢
Intellectual and smart. Sometimes it can blind you and work against you from seeing the truth.
I have so much empathy for Saane. I grew up with a black mother who greatly valued education and isolated me from black communities in intentional ways to acquire the benefits of proximity to whiteness. In this way we are sisters.
I wish that there was a person interviewing who was a bit more skilled in talking about race, whiteness and faith (I grew up evangelical so I can't speak to the mormonism). There were some HUGE opportunities and themes missed because the person leading this discussion was a white man. (still love your work, tho John! ❤) Looking forward to Part 2. And 3!?!?
Mālō 'Aupito Saane for sharing your story and echoing a lot of our lived experiences as Tongans in the diaspora in relation to Mormonism/history, education and racism.
It feels quite literally like we're standing on the shoulders of Black Civil Rights Activists who paved the way for all other marginalised Indigenous groups.
I admire the way you unpacked anti-blackness within Polynesian cultures & misappropriating black culture in this episode as well as other topics a lot of our Polynesian counterparts aren't ready to discuss.
Listening and appreciating from Aotearoa.
@@vaingamaliet252 Well, Malo e Lelei cousin lol.
I'm interested to know which topic you're ready to discuss in relation to Saane's story? There's a plethora of issues she pointed out within the Mormon church and Tongan culture we can talk about, take your pick.
I think your view of "being real" and "spoiled" differs from mine and that's ok.
I don't doubt we were all taught gratitude in our Tongan homes as that is one of Tonga's most priced possession. "Ko e koloa e Tonga ko e fakamālō." What I disagree with is staying silent about issues that impact BIPOC negatively and how they're perpetuated by Mormon culture/leaders/doctrine which from my perspective is what this podcast focussed on.
You can feel gratitude and still be an advocate for basic human rights or is that not possible? You can feel gratitude and still speak out about how racism, discrimination and ignorance impacts BIPOC right?
If your "gratitude" or your "being spoilt" is the reason you "don't speak out" about these blatant behaviours then I stand by what I said; you are not ready for these conversations.
A call for accountability isn't an act of ingratitude Vaingamalie. To me it is brave and one of the purest forms of Love.
If ingratitude is all you got from this podcast you are entitled to that but you aren't ready to hold space for these talanoas.
You should watch more Mormon Stories.
@@vaingamaliet252 Hey cuzzzz
I don’t want this talanoa to go around in circles which I have an inkling it might if I answer your points individually.
I don’t know if this will work but I strongly believe we can have a more meaningful and honest discussion if you’re able to take off your lds lens sort of like Saane's former bishop did in the podcast. It is problematic if you can't because it prevents you from hearing Saane’s story exactly the way she told it, nothing more nothing less.
I do have a couple of ?s for you that I’ve thought about after reading your reply.
Do you disagree with her activism/protesting? If so, why?
Do you believe the racist history within the church exists and negatively impacts BIPOC past and present?
Does religion playing a valuable role in society negate issues of racism and abuse within the institution?
I don’t know one example of the church publicly denouncing white supremacy and apologising for its racist past. Please send me the link to a gen conf talk that I might’ve missed. That is a small part of accountability that I believe is crucial. The church dances around racism (and other controversial topics). It never addresses it head on. It’s always presented in a whitewash version with a pretty bow on top followed by a promised blessing.
Choosing to see the “good” isn’t a good enough reason to turn a blind eye against the evil.
The lds church is full of deceit (my opinion) Nothing contradicts free agency more than deceit.
Look forward to your reply fam. Til then, take care.
I took a shot every time I heard, ‘my dad.’ Now I’m dead 😅
Yes! Costa Mesa, CA. They had a dance hall on Harbor Blvd. My husband is one of very few white guys that played for the Tongan rugby league. The Samoan rugy guys were LDS. The Tongans were Christian. This was in the late 80's and early 90's. I remember a guy named "Kefu" that would BBQ pigs in his backyard.
Thank you for pointing out that LDS aren't Christians, regardless of what the name of their church is or the verbiage they use.
SOAR was so awesome!
I remember talking to a good friend of mine who is Polynesian that stated the same thing that Saane is describing about staying out in the sun too much and that they didn’t want to be darker.
How exhausting it seemed (to me) to grow up as Beau. I am glad that she was able to thrive and arrive at what she is today. Too easily one could have given up on themselves.
So much of what mormon leadership taught about how "everything" a person enjoys in this life is a result of faithfulness in the preexistence (skin color, affluence at birth, being born in the church, opportunities of this life) plays a part in what these young people experienced (even if indirectly through latent mormon cultural norms).
I love how they pronounce her name Saane. Humble soul & humble Tongan 🇹🇴 girl ❤
From my outsider opinion, I do think Mormonism has grown rapidly amongst Tongans and amongst Pacific peoples. I think education and the opportunities (e.g. leaving the country, etc) the LDS Church gives to people in the Islands is one of the main drivers for why many convert to Mormonism? Well possibly? But I also think it’s the fact that they have more youth programs and “family or ward or community or stake events” which is also another driver. I myself am a Protestant so I don’t know much about Mormonism or the full LDS doctrine?
I do know that the only sin that will never be forgiven according to the Bible is blasphemous against the Holy Spirit or going against the Holy Spirit and so I am still open to hearing about the Mormon faith or LDS faith?
Anyways, apologies for not watching the rest of the video. God bless ❤
Wow, she is an amazing human. ❤
I wish he brought on someone who actually grew up in a Tongan ward. Our experiences are so different and the way she describes tongan wards as “disorganized” is just too vague and a bit insulting but I get thats her personal experience, I just question the validity of her perception on polynesian steaks and how polys identify with the laminites etc. I dont want to say it, but she’s just a tad whitewashed
I felt that in my northern San Diego Stake and Ward, and a mixed-race convert, I was rarely asked out in highschool, and in the single-ward. Marrting a Mormon seemed like it would never happen in the late 1980's-1990's.
I 100% love this story 100% would love more poly stories 100%
Let's make you the first Samoan on Mormon Stories Uso
@@divinerelaxation4457 😂 I’m not Samoan I’m palangi but I know I have lots of Purcell uso’s in heart
@T Purcell LOL 😆 Okay, then if you know what Palangi is, Then that means I'm Palangi too. Purcell is pretty much a Samoan name. Takes a Samoan to identify what a Palangi is 🤣
I'll send John message and let him know that you are really wanting to be the very first Samoan on Mormon Stories
The reason why there are Tongan stakes is because of Elder Groberg. In the early days of Tongans coming to USA, they wouldn’t go to the palangi ward bc they couldn’t understand. Kolipoki knew they had strong faith as a people so he approached the first presidency and proposed a few Tongan wards in UT. Soon, there were so many that it turned into a stake. This spread throughout the US and stuck. It’s only a thing here in America. They thought about doing the same thing in NZ but the area seventy concern was that if they create a Tongan stake, the palangi wards would be so small.
I heard this story from Pita Hopoate who was an area authority seventy
Honestly think the Tongan wards need to dissolve. The purpose was to do service in Tongan. Now they don’t even speak the language 50% of the time. Purpose is defeated if they speaking English
I thought the Penrose Stake in Auckland is a Tongan one? They ain’t wrong tho if they form Island stakes the Palangi ones would be hella small hhh
1 thing about Tonga. 🇹🇴 they are the last monarchy and dedicated the land to JESUS CHRIST ❤
There is anti blackness in the Samoan culture as well. The word for black people is "meauli" which translates to "black thing". The history of this word starts when Germany came to colonise Samoa in the 1800's, Samoans were only growing what was needed, and then the Germans increased the number and vastness of the plantations. They brought over indentured labourers from the Solomon islands who were treated so badly and weren't given what they had been promised. The term "meauli" was coined as a label for these labourers and the word has been stuck in the vocabulary ever since and is used also for black people of African descent. There is no other culture in the Samoan language that has such a derogatory meaning. There is no place for it. "Tagata uli" is a better use of words for "black people". Moral of the story, anti blackness always starts with colonisation.
I live just around the corner from a Mormon church in Christchurch, New Zealand, and Tongan New Zealanders make up a pretty large proportion of churchgoers. It's pretty interesting to me because Christchurch is a very white city by NZ standards (something like 78% European descent) which makes the Mormon church community here actually a lot more diverse than the city as a whole. I'm guessing there aren't many places in the world where that is the case.
How would someone do activism in Utah? I'd like to participate, but I have no car and an anxiety disorder and I don't know where to begin.
Her dad and I have the same birthday! 🎉
Retention. Polynesians stakes have high retention and growth so they keep them together
Yaaasss had the same experience being a BIPOC person as a youth. Not being white not being enough.
Again- neverMo; is it possible that the more progressive and inclusive ideals that Saane expresses are not just generational but also reflective of communities that are more diverse and not as insularly white and Mormon as places in Utah for example? The Bay Area in general is very diverse.
I should have waited- diverse as it is- there’s still racism here.
For history to be taught in school see Howard Zinn , a trust worthy northern American historian
The Agriculture of the Tongan Archipelago is largely based on the farming of yams, squash, and root crops. Agriculture consists of 16-29.9% of Tonga's GDP,
Wow! She's so nice and pretty!
Wow shes a beauty!❤
Dang this is straight up sad 😢
May 20 2023 Slowly catching up.
I read somewhere that Polynesians and Islanders weren't part of the black skin ban- that it was only Blacks of African descent.
yes, you are correct.
Polynesians were never restricted from the priesthood. They are not Black. Their ancestry does not descend from Africa. The restriction was not merely "skin color" related, by geographical in nature. Interesting fact, many White LDS people have fragments of Black DNA and were that known to the Church prior to 1978, those pious White Mormons would have been denied the priesthood and all of it's implied blessings.
@@vaingamaliet252 I've heard the same. It doesn't show up in my DNA assessment from Ancestry, but I think the emphasis in those tests are the heritage of the last four centuries. If we travel back in time far enough, we'd probably all be from that region of the world.
I just got this alert…😢
Hi Clie, you're very articulate and very brave. I admire your poise, and the considerable depth of your introspection. I also like your style.
Take it from a survivor of her own trials pkwase...you have come through this asrouningly well. You are traumatized and you have things that perhaps will always haunt you. We all do, or many of us anyway.
No one needs to pity you. You will make the very life you wish and if it requires adoptions, you'll adapt.
I'm sorry this happened to you. I'm sorry you were given such a dangerous degree of autonomy .You have learned from this, a most important ability in life.
Love yourself and don't ever accept less than you deserve. Take care and good luck
Interesting how Saane’s family chose to stay in a white ward. I’d be curious if there was a Tongan ward near her? My husband and his extended family chose to congregate in Samoan and Tongan wards.
Segregation?
@@grammichal6759 That is one way to look at it. Many Samoans in Hawaii (and other states) were going inactive, so they started Samoan wards where people could worship in their native language. From what I experienced, about half of the worship was in Samoan and half in English. For my husband, he enjoyed learning in Samoan, and enjoyed experiencing the church along side his culture. A Samoan ward camp is very different that a Palangi (white) ward camp. 😉 That was something I learned being married to a Samoan. Even though we were both LDS, we viewed the church and the teaching very differently because of our cultural lenses.
@@grammichal6759 no necessarily. Sometimes that happens by neighborhood.
If they were in the Easy Bay area in California there was a Tongan Stake and maybe even a Samoan.
Did you listen? It was an intentional decision by her parents knowing that a prosperous neighborhood which happened to be white would give their children superior academic opportunities etc.
From what I know the Polynesian Panthers were founded by Pacific islanders (Fred Schmidt, Nooroa Teavae, Paul Dapp, Vaughan Sanft, Eddie Williams and Will 'Ilolahia). Mainly Samoan, Tongan, Cook islanders and some Maori. They were founded in 1971 after the Dawn Raids in 1970. My mum still remembers her home being raided and family members hunted down. It makes me wonder if the church assisted any Polynesian families during that time as there was a huge influx of islanders coming to NZ to help with labouring jobs. (Hence the dawn raids to try and kick them out. Use and abuse relationship!)
All throughout but especially at the 1:55 mark it becomes more apparent of the sad generational indoctrination of our children. Saane is an amazing and intelligent Polynesian that would’ve been a force for intense good had she had better teachers, friends and education. Too many islanders are super conservative, racist, and homophobic yet the newer generation is far too sensitive trying their best to align themselves on the victim hierarchy. The truth lies somewhere in the middle and no one can tell me I can’t achieve anything because of my race, including our own people. Let’s quit the race game
Isn't the ward by the U of U a Chinese ward
Segregation?
I do have a question regarding BLM. Did they show up in Oakland and make a difference like you were protesting for? Or did they somehow make a difference in the lives of the oppressed? I keep hearing from the people who live in places that could have greatly benefited from their help say in state after state, they never showed up in $ or deed. South side Chicago is more dangerous on every front. Think of the lives that would have been saved, but it’s gotten worse according to both residents and statistics. Now in 2024, the government is paying slumlords large bonuses to price the residents out of their horrible homes and the southern border crossers are moving in. The citizens are living in tent cities. Where’s BLM, their money, and manpower? Was the manpower only used for protests. I’m firmly behind the right to peaceful protests, but I expect to learn of appreciable improvements in the years since the protests went silent.
Prop 8 was the reason I walked from my Catholic faith.
That's too bad. I pray for your reversion. The Church is always ready to welcome you back.
27:56 why would there be a Polynesian stake? What could be a reason? Samoan and Tongan are not the same language, so, hmmm, I can’t qwhite put my finger on it…
Because to my knowledge there was never a Polynesian Stake here in the Bay Area. Some of the facts spoken here is Blasphemous 😂😂
NorCal...We can tell!
"no, yeah!" lol
Im from Socal so yeah, no, right! hahahaha
I hope she’s still a believer in Christ ❤️ because her view of Him being connected to inclusivity and love is true and amazing!! It’s just sad that the LDS church has twisted His image into something wildly different than what the Bible actually teaches 😔
God is good and Jesus is good, the LDS church is not