Mike Winger on Isaiah 53:5: My Response
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- Опубліковано 18 вер 2020
- Mike Winger says that Isaiah 53:5 doesn't necessarily refer to physical healing in this life. • 20 Questions with Past...
In this video I offer my response as to why I think he's wrong.
Mike's video - • 20 Questions with Past...
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My Blog - jewandgreek.com
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They always define WoF by its excesses. By the people who do and say stupid things. They also misrepresent what we say about healing, as if we’re supposed to live life as divine supermen. All we believe is that God is good. Sickness is from the devil. And healing is for today. I believe that based on scripture we *CAN* be healed. This doesn’t mean I believe that I won’t ever get sick or die. That’s preposterous. I’ve prayed for plenty of people during this pandemic who have sadly passed away, but that doesn’t diminish my faith in God, and I don’t blame him for their deaths either.
Lets be kind to Mike, if we speak ill of believers just for a different understanding of healing, then we our self need healing of our hearts.
I agree. I like Mike for the most part, but disagree with him in a few areas. I don't question his motives or his character. I just think he's coming from a theological perspective that prevents him from doing proper exposition.
@@JewandGreek we all have our own journey, thanks for your reply.
Hi Rod Sanders, I've been watching your videos quite a while. I was blessed. Thank you for defending the biblical gospel. May the Lord use you mightily.
Haha, in heaven why would we need to be physically healed? We will have no sickness in a glorified body, that's a no brainers! You're right, it's theology, rather then just believing what Jesus said! Well, no wonder He said, unless you become as little children, you'll in no wise enter the Kingdom of God! Thanks again, Rod!
I agree... What's the use of healing in Heaven when there will be no sickness? No death? Healing is very much manifested in the now. Thanks Rob. Keep them coming. Very much balanced and from the Holy Scriptures
*Rod, my apologies
@@musondakalanjemwape2355 I've been called worse - especially on UA-cam.
@@JewandGreek haha... Being persecuted for His name's sake. It's part of the territory I guess. I am very much encouraged by you. I discovered your channel after I saw Justin Peters videos and I couldn't agree with his explanations, as I am from Zambia an African nation and part of a Pentecostal./charismatic Church here. Was raised Roman Catholic, but Word of Faith has been my staple for some time now. Hagins teaching, etc... Thanks for the Midas Touch. I didn't know Kenneth Hagins had written something addressing the prosperity issues of the church. God bless you nd your family. Very much edifies always
The idea is that when we receive our glorified bodies we lose these old bodies, and are liberated from our current injuries, and will thus be healed of them. If your glorified body has no diabetes, it means you were ‘healed’ of your diabetes. It’s a stretch, I know, but that’s the idea.
Please go watch my whole comment in context. Rod didn’t play the important part nor did he respond to my actual point. He cuts my reasoning right out with editing and then goes on to respond to what I didn’t intend to claim.
Rod, I was really surprised by how you’ve misrepresented me and edited my content to get past what I was saying. I also notice that you didn't provide a link to my original video where people could see it for themselves. I always provide links so people can do that. My case is simple, and limited; it is not consistent to say that everyone should expect healing today from every illness based on the idea that healing is in the atonement because we have a long list of other things that are in the atonement which we do not expect everyone to get today. That's it. And that is something you didn't respond to at all. I wasn't offering a "no healing" view nor was I trying to respond to every argument for a "total healing right now" view. I'm just showing that Isaiah 53 and "healing in the atonement" is not a good reason to support a "total healing right now" or "healing is therefore always God's will and is immediately available to all". I'm only saying, in the video you edited and didn't link, that this is not a good reason to support that view.
ua-cam.com/video/QsjM4i-S7FE/v-deo.html There's the link. The issue is covered in the first ten minutes. I don't typically include links because I figure people know how to use the search function, but maybe to avoid any accusations of misrepresentation it would be better to adopt that policy.
The editing was only for the sake of brevity. I don't usually do long videos. There was no intention of misrepresenting what you said. The point I was addressing is that there is no healing in heaven. Healing is for this world where we encounter sickness. That's why Matthew quoted Isaiah 53:4 regarding the people healed in Capernaum. Our glorified bodies won't require healing. I included 3 minutes of your discussion that I felt was sufficient to provide your views on that topic. I'm sorry if you feel that I should have included more.
Jew and Greek For some reason the link didn’t start at the beginning of the video? If anyone is following up on this, I would suggest starting Mikes video from 0:00.
Jew and Greek that’s for sharing the link. Let me just say a couple things here. You’re my brother in Christ and I love you and believe you have that same attitude toward me. But in this issue I think you’ve responded to something other than what I said and missed what I did say. I already mentioned what I did say but let me take a second to point out that I never said “my case depends on healing being in heaven”. Although it is strange to me to think that healing isn’t part of heaven/new heaven and earth in some sense. There is no more sickness, disease, pain, death, etc. To me it’s odd to characterize this as “no healing in heaven” instead of seeing it as living in the fullness of health/ultimate healing. What I think you’ve done is create a rhetorical point by holding that “we aren’t technically being healed because nobody gets sick”. But that’s more about definitions of words than being about anything I have said in my video. I see it as a non-issue since, by “healing”, we are really interested in fullness of health which is part of heaven and is assured to all who enter.
Mike Winger
There’s a long list of other things in the atonement we don’t expect everyone to get today?
Really? Things that are listed in the PRESENT and PAST tenses like healing and forgiveness are? Do you give examples of this in your video? I’d be interested.
The Objective Believer we struggle/war in the flesh daily but those temptations and struggles will not exist at the resurrection for one. Even though we are free from sin through Christ NOW, that doesn’t mean we aren’t going to sin for the rest of our lives on earth. We are sealed for the day of redemption and complete freedom from sin will only be fully realized in heaven when he returns.
It's sad to see Christians who don't understand that healing is available now.
Thanks Rod for another insightful video. 😉👍
God is certainly teaching me grace and patience with these kinds of UA-cam ministers. 💛
Great video, Praying for your continued success Brother Rod.
Wonderful work yet again. I have an unrelated question- what’s your favorite book or sermon about putting on Gods armor in Ephesians 6?
I don't really have one. Years ago (back in the 1970s) I heard a good message from our associate pastor on it, but I don't have a tape of it. Maybe I should do one.
Appreciate your videos, sir. Saw your tweet about the TPT controversy and I can't wait to hear your thoughts about it. Mike has recorded multiple videos about it and his points are valid and convincing. On the other hand, I saw Dr Brown's video on the TPT and it seems that Dr Brown does not have much concern about it other than the fact that it is wrongly named as a translation instead of a paraphrase. Verses like John 1:13 and Matthew 6:19+ seem to show that there are additions or error that is hard to overlook. Some argue that it would be as if someone made a paraphrase of Isaiah 53 stating "by his stripes we are healed, maybe not today but for sure in the future." Really looking forward to your content on this one. God bless you!
This has been in the works all year. I've talked with Winger about it and Brian Simmons and I have had a couple of calls and several text messages during this time. Hopefully it won't be much longer. Expect my comments to be full of haters on this one.
@@JewandGreek wow that's amazing. Thank you for the work you do! Blessings!
Brilliant response. Teaches the rest of us how to respond. You are a great asset to the body of Christ.
That's the idea. I want others to learn how to handle these objections.
Can someone explain how Mathew 8 can come and play into role what was said in Isahai 53 when Jesus had not died yet???
Sounds to me like Mike just needs that extra little push & he'll be laying hands on the sick. May the Holy Ghost get ahold of him.
He has told me of a time when he laid hands on somebody and they were healed. He does believe in healing, but he has a Calvary Chapel "middle ground" approach to these things.
Jew and Greek these people stumble over the fact that not everybody receives what Christ died for. Also, those that do receive dont always receive to the same degree (30, 60, 100 return from the seed of the Word).
@@vdr3846 good point
That is awesome that he has healed some even with his twisted theology. That's the problem with religion, it always comes back to try and limit the work of Holy Spirit.
When someone says, this is what I think it means ...
You know their opinions are seeded into the statement, rather than the truth.
Justin Peters sounded like a pre programed lunatic.
I wonder if people like Justin realize that people often die due to not seeking divine healing?
I wonder if there can be any joy being a Calvinest?
Mike Wingers only problem is He wants to dislike Word of Faith so much, He compromised what He knows to be true.
Sorry Mike Kenneth Hagin was quoting the same verses long before you were born.
People like Justin and Mike are justifying their unbelief.
@@matasaina2011 I agree
Hi Rod, thank you for your video. I have been following you for quite some time now and your explanations really help me understand things of God and His word..
Just a bit of a background, I used to attend a church with traditional/conservative leaning when it comes to theology and practice. But for many years now, my belief has changed and have been embracing the gifts and works of the Holy Spirit. So please understand that my question is honest and I seek to understand more.
Here's my question, if physical healing is provided for in the atonement, does it mean that all Christians who believe in the healing power of God and who are prayed for by sincere people who believe in healing, will be healed? In my search to understand healing, I encountered common questions (and I am looking for answers as well)... Questions like... Does God heal all who are prayed for, especially Christians?...and yes, they believe in healing and believe God will heal them (I know of a few friends in that category). If people are not healed, how can we explain that? What if they die and not get healed? (I also personally know friends in this category). Thank you very much for reaching my question and for answer that will be given. God bless you and your ministry!
Your first question requires some commentary. Christians should not view healing as something that God will do. They should view it as something that He has already done, and they're now receiving it by faith just as they do with salvation. As I mentioned in the video, Isaiah 53:5 says "by His stripes we ARE healed". Then in 1 Peter 2:24 we read "we WERE healed". It's counterintuitive, I know. But the Bible speaks of the healing as having occurred at Calvary when Jesus paid the price for our redemption. In Acts 14 Paul told a lame man to stand up. If the man had done what most people do he would have waited for some feeling or physical indication of healing. But instead he just responded to Paul's words by acting like he was already healed. We have to keep the emphasis on the receiving rather than the healing, because the healing is already done for us. Now, for the unbeliever the Holy Spirit dispenses gifts of healing as He wills, so that's a different situation. We don't expect the unsaved to receive healing by faith. In that case, the faith is squarely on the shoulders of the one ministering via the gifts.
As for your question about explaining when people die from sickness, we don't know everything. The Bible says that we know in part and prophesy in part. So the reason could be one of many, but we should never just conclude that for some reason God in His sovereignty chose not to heal them even though He provided healing in the Atonement and repeatedly expressed His will for us to be healed in His Word.
“the whole multitude sought to touch Him, for power went out from Him and healed them all” Luke 6.19
Amen 🙌🏽🙏🏽
Thank you Rod next
What is “hyper healing”? What a sad choice of words.
1 Corinthians 13:9-10 For we know in part, and we prophesy in part.
But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away.
1 Corinthians 13:12 For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known.
Genesis 32:20 And Jacob called the name of the place Peniel: for I have seen God face to face, and my life is preserved.
Can someone explain how Mathew 8 can come and play into role when Jesus had not died yet???
I cover that in this video ua-cam.com/video/vk4oKlGbO3o/v-deo.html about 11 minutes in.
I’ve been super naturally healed before and I think it had something to do with my belief and the belief and prayer of other. It’s Scriptural that UN-believe can hinder such things. Thanks Jew and Greek/Rod Saunders and might I add that Mr. Winger was very civil in his reply…very impressive as oppose to being mean-spirited and thin skinned.
Again Brother Rods. Very straight forward and Balanced explanation of Isaiah 53. God bless you More
My brother, here is the true question to ask yourself, WHERE DID SICKNESS COME FROM AND DID IT START? AS SOON AS MAN SINNED, man got scared and that was the very beginning of all pains and negative things that people see including SICKNESSES. ISAIAH 53:5 stated : by his stripes we are healed! Meaning FOR ANYONE WHO BELIEVES THE WORD OF THE LORD THE WAY IT IS DECLARED CAN BE IN A CONSTANT PRESENT TENCE HEALED CONDITION! Meaning people should not get sick or be sick. People are sick and perish because of lack of knowledge just like scriptures say!! Jesus often said to sick people: your sins are forgiven, raise up and walk! Why would he say that if sins was not related to sickness and vice versa??? Here the truth from the LORD, WE ARE IN A CONSTANT T HEALED CONDITION. Myself I never get sick and will never get sick because I know this truth. I can’t die of a disease! No way!
So If I get sick, I am not saved?
@@kulassiwsiwit4917 I never said that if you get sick you ain’t saved. I’m saying, sickness came in when man sinned. Now, the reversal happened and sins was taken away by the blood of Jesus Christ. That’s why when you read Isaiah 53:4-6 you will see that sin is dealt with and then sickness and the Bible says” we are healed”. Present tense! I never understood that until some time ago, the Lord himself explained that to me and now, sickness doesn’t exist in my dimension anymore! Impossible for me to ever get sick again. It may sound crazy but just read Isaiah and ask the author to explain to you himself what he meant and you’ll be so surprised. And of course, why do we see saved people sick today? Simply because of lack of knowledge😀. Remember “my people perish by lack of knowledge”. They ain’t know they’re healed! It’s as if you got a million dollars that was kept for you in a saving but you don’t know that money exist. You will struggle and work hard like everybody. But the day you release that money is there for you, that’s the end of your struggle. Behold the lamb of God that taketh sin out of the world (present tense again). Sins was taken away and when that was done, sin and all it attributes including sickness was taken away. But you need to be aware of that to enjoy that reality. You see, I can take all the time to talk with you if you want and go through scriptures. This ain’t my theory, it came from himself the almighty Lord Jesus and it matches the scriptures.
@@eliseekitsisa4365 But what is the purpose of a new heaven and a new earth where there will be no mourning nor pain and sickness? What is the purpose of this promise if it can be achieved now?
He will wipe away all tears from their eyes. There will be no more death, no more grief or crying or pain. The old things have disappeared.”
Revelation 21:4
For this reason we never become discouraged. Even though our physical being is gradually decaying, yet our spiritual being is renewed day after day.
2 Corinthians 4:16
Even King David who was after God's own heart experience hypertermia in his old age.
King David was now a very old man, and although his servants covered him with blankets, he could not keep warm. So his officials said to him, “Your Majesty, let us find a young woman to stay with you and take care of you. She will lie close to you and keep you warm.”
1 Kings 1:1-2
One more example is Ephrapoditus who almost died delievering Paul's letters from prison, travelling more than a hundred miles in foot.
I have thought it necessary to send to you our brother Epaphroditus, who has worked and fought by my side and who has served as your messenger in helping me. He is anxious to see you all and is very upset because you had heard that he was sick. Indeed he was sick and almost died. But God had pity on him, and not only on him but on me, too, and spared me an even greater sorrow.
Philippians 2:25-27
And also the countless believers who suffered throughout the centuries and today in 3rd world countries.
As for me I experienced 2 weeks of fever, tiredness, and body pains even thought I am now saved.
I also have a relative that died out of kidney failure and he was a devout Christian. We Christians have the hope of ressurection because of the current hardships in this life
So are you saying that their sickness can be solved by just having faith? Is God's purpose for me is to be healthy and not experience hardship in this life?
@@kulassiwsiwit4917 look up Curry Blake's work, all based on Scripture. If you are using the Word of God in prayer, you can prevent and remove sickness.
Is it wrong for quadraparalegic to say God is SOVEREIGN after asking God to heal her and she still can't use her arms and legs ?
Well I wouldn't consider it a sin, per se. But look at it this way. There was a paralyzed guy in Jesus' day who chose not to resort to "God is sovereign". Instead, he had his friends carry him to where Jesus was and he got healed.
Spar Key, the answer is always Yes and the healing was paid for. We need to state we are healed, in faith. Look up Curry Blake, Mel Bond. Blake does a great job showing you that the Scripture backs this up.
Amen - clearly and rightly dividing the word of truth
James 5:14-16 Is anyone among you sick? Let him call for the elders of the church, and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord; (15) and the prayer offered in faith will restore the one who is sick, and the Lord will raise him up, and if he has committed sins, they will be forgiven him. (16) Therefore, confess your sins to one another, and pray for one another, so that you may be healed. The effective prayer of a righteous man can accomplish much.
Mike: “Matthew 8 totally proves that this means humans are healed”
Also Mike: “Humans aren’t healed”
I really don’t know why Mike Winger is so popular. He teaches like this all the time.
Candance “Itching ears”?
It might be worth noting Mike Winger teaches Christians do not need holiness because Jesus is holy for them. He says as much in his videos on the Passover.
But, not everyone is healed as we all know, is it the believers fault because they didn’t get healed?
Apparently you're interested in fixing the blame, but I'm more focused on fixing the problem.
love it brother
People that cause dissension, amongst the brotherhood, have nothing better to do . Quite honestly are rather boring to say the least
Was Paul healed? Timothy healed? You are way off! Mike was right. You are the one taking it out of context! Jesus himself ask for the cup to pass! And He didn’t get it! Let me guess? You think Jesus healed everyone? How many got healed at pool Bethesda? One! How many were there? Hundreds! Gods more worried about our souls than our physical bodies! Actually tells us to cut off our hands and pluck out our eyes if they will prevent us from entering into heaven!
Paul's blindness was healed when Ananias laid hands on him. If you're referring to the thorn in the flesh, that wasn't a sickness. It was a messenger (angelos or "angel" in the Greek) of Satan sent to buffet him by bringing constant persecution and hardships Paul's way. But Paul never said that he was sick and God refused to heal him, which is usually the way that the passage is interpreted by those who reject the idea that God's will is healing. As for Timothy, the whole purpose for Paul telling him to drink some wine was medicinal in nature, which means healing would be the result. When Jesus asked for the cup to pass, He wasn't praying for healing. He was praying about God's will in His situation. Jesus never prayed "if it by Thy will" when ministering healing. As for the pool at Bethesda, the man who was healed had zero faith. The Spirit led Jesus to Him for reasons we can only speculate about. But when people came to Jesus in faith for healing they got what they came for. So there's a clear distinction there between a sovereign dispensation of the gift of healing from the Holy Spirit and people receiving healing by faith. God heals both ways. Jesus said that if we've seen Him we've seen the Father, and He showed the Father's goodness and His will in healing all who came to Him. He never said "God's more concerned about your soul". That's a manmade theology to accommodate a lack of results. It was the healing of the sick that caused many to believe on Jesus for salvation, kind of a two birds with one stone approach. As for the hands and eyes quote, I sure hope you aren't taking that literally. He was just saying to get rid of whatever comes between you and God.
wow mike i cannot believe this guy
absolutely crazy
Both Mike & Justin believe that God does heal people today, according to his sovereign will BUT healing is not guaranteed to all people all the time.
And they’re right, if you want to claim otherwise maybe start at a children’s cancer ward and then move to a coronavirus effected country like yours.
First of all, who says that healing is guaranteed? As I said in my previous video rebuttal to Mike, healing is provided for in the Atonement, but it's no more guaranteed than salvation is guaranteed. And nobody except for the Universalists claim that salvation is guaranteed. It's received by faith, and so is healing. So the "guaranteed" thing is a straw man.
Secondly, nobody ever came to Jesus for healing and received a lecture on the sovereignty of God, but Jesus did lecture on the subject of faith, didn't he? So there's nothing in the ministry of Jesus that would lead us to conclude that God's sovereignty is the determining factor in healing.
And third, the cancer ward thing is a red herring. It has nothing to do with the subject of God providing physical healing in the Atonement.
“the whole multitude sought to touch Him, for power went out from Him and healed them all” Luke 6.19