Gran Turismo's Most Iconic Feature is Outdated
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- Опубліковано 30 вер 2024
- Gran Turismo's license test system is outdated. Too many games in modern times require lots of third party information to master certain skills, strategies, or even get new players on their feet in some cases. In my view, Gran Turismo suffers from the lack of fundamental driving education in the game. Sure, license tests are a good way to train, but for brand new players it tends to leave them needing way more info than given.
There's a way for Gran Turismo to become the absolute best source for new drivers without the need for third parties like UA-cam and forums. This is what I came up with. Enjoy!
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I honestly never felt like the license tests we're the most iconic part of Gran Turismo. Most of the notoriety they gained was because not many people actually liked them. The heart and soul of the game has always been the sheer variety of races and events in the Beginner, Intermediate and Professional Leagues. The modern day GT sweats are the reason anyone even talks about these tests in the first place lol.
Not to mention timing to get gold is very strict and batshit especially depending on verison of the game you're playing
Oh yeahhhhhhhhh ohhhhh yeahhhhh -GT4 PTSD
"I've never played a GT prior to 7" fucking take.
@@boredguy2935 been playing since Gran Turismo 3 in 2003. Have multiple Sport mode world records on GT7 and Sport. If you play GT to sweat licence tests you’re missing the point.
well your evaluation abt this is completly correct however i wanna point somethings out, video based demonstrations such as we seen in Nascar 2005 does make a new player to catch up and understand the techniques much faster than the trial and error method gran turismo uses , but gran turismos method holds a slight edge as the missions requires the player to figure the techniques out by themselfs which is much more solid experience and its the best way of learning (the best way of learning is to figure it out by youreslf). Only if gran turismo improved upon this by adding some major hints than just the text adn demonstration videos i am preety sure it would be perfect.
I disagree on the “learning it yourself” part. Let’s say someone just got done with the first 90% of the learning phase. They can run consistent laps, know how to handle the car etc but they are still 3-5% off pace from the skilled drivers.
If they go and run dozens of laps the way they know how to drive, then that becomes their new normal driving style. Then when they find out they’ve been doing something slightly wrong with their driving it takes a longer time to correct it and shave off lap time, because that’s become part of their muscle memory now.
@@RowdyGT even if they knew how to do it properly from the start, it would still take time to actually do it because muscle memory does takes time to develop, there is no shortcut to learning something, you'll need to practice and GT already gives you tools to do so.
@@RowdyGTThe muscle memory part is completely absurd. When a person realizes that he needs to improve his racing line, he will try to improve it. Muscle memory has nothing to do with it. It doesn't take long to adjust the line either. I just did it again recently. I simply gained 2 tenths by taking a corner a little differently than usual. And so it goes. At the end of the day, you have to memorize each route and then keep adjusting the racing line. Any tutorials like in the NASCAR game are of no use. Practice makes perfect.
I feel that the licence tests are only useful if you understand how you're approaching them, instead of brute-forcing them.
GT3's tests do a good job of teaching you the fundamentals if you aim for gold times; with assists disabled, you're fully responsible for managing the car's weight around corners. However, it can take hours of analysing the demo and your own replays to figure out what to do if you're not following a guide. Casually, you're likely only aiming to get bronzes as quickly as possible so you can get back to racing, meaning you often don't learn anything from the experience, especially since assists are automatically enabled outside of the licence center.
While it would have been great to have a built-in tuning guide in the early GT games, I somehow doubt PD themselves understood the quirks of each game's physics and suspension mechanics, let alone the localisation team who would be responsible for putting the guide together. Many of the included "walls of text" are already misleading about a lot of things (eg. the racing flywheel saying it reduces uphill speed when it doesn't affect it at all).
An in-game video similar to the NASCAR 101 approach that explains body roll and weight transfer would have been massively useful in every GT though. It's something that has a great effect on how the car handles, especially once you get into tuning, but you're often unaware of it playing casually.
For what it's worth GT5 and 6 both had the Beyond the Apex magazine which was easily the most in depth guide PD has ever released for their games. 200+ pages of info on tuning, driving technique, aerodynamics, race etiquette, etc. The magazine is reallt informational, but not exactly game specific (especially if you consider the in-game engineering is off in some ways and doesn’t compare realistically to real life; camber/suspension in particular). Its fair to assume that the people writing the guides and text wete separate from the developers who made the engine physics because many tuning adjustments do behave differently to real life. That being said, it would be great if there were in game active tutorials and following missions regarding tuning principles to make the learning process more engaging.
I don't have any problem with reading 😅 i play GT since the original and never think oh this is outdated
While the Nascar approach is great and there's always room for improvement, I never had an issue with the license tests even as kid when I could barely understand English and they remain my favourite part of the game.
GT2 actually had a full driving guide manual talking about racing line, braking, weight transfer etc. although I don't think it touched tuning a lot (at all?).
Also, while the demo replays don't have explanations, it's not terribly hard to see what they do differently compared to your own driving and they certainly helped me get those gold times.
All that said, I realize that I might have been better than the average new player because I never struggled to at least pass the license tests. If someone really struggles to even get bronze, locking them out of even attempting to complete the game is unfortunate.
Yeah I also couldnt understand english (got no pal :c) but the replay let you know what to do, easy shit
08:06
Yes. For me, personally, learning driving/racing techniques is much more about practicing and repeating until you get it right rather than having it explained to me. That said, there's no problem whatsoever in looking it up if you really need that extra bit of assistance. You paid for the product, you have the right to use it as you please.
Well, if you keep failing those license test, you're bound to learn something
Or drop the game
@@haydenagnewskill issue lol
@jdcp8976 yeah if only thay made a good way you could get better
@@haydenagnew that means the player still learned something. That they cant drive lol
gt5 has got exactly that nascar tutorial tho, and if you enable the guide lines you know when to steer and brake so gt5 at least should be excluded
I’ve only played GT5 a couple times and all I could recall was just a nascar section teaching about oval racing, just don’t remember how extensive it was
Well, if you keep failing those license test, you're bound to learn something
TL;DW: "License tests are outdated because people look them up on youtube instead of grinding their asses off"
Nah fam, fat L
NASCAR Chase for the Cup '05 is a 10/10, along with Thunder '04
I think GT4 Prologue has a great driving school. It has voice acting and demonstration for all the tests and you have to overtake drivers in the first tests of the special license.
100% agreed, since GT5 really, license tests were more of an afterthought and added for the sake of being a staple GT "minigame". Understandable since most casual players used to be frustrated with how many tests were needed to be completed in past titles like GT4, and most other racing games, including sim racing titles don't bother with them at all (iRacing has a very good driver school video series, but iirc, not much is integrated in the actual sim).
I would like Driving Tests to be extended into a "school" in the next GT title. With how much emphasis there is put into Sport mode, there is very little Sport mode specific driver education besides that laughable "What is Sportsmanship" video. I have wished for license tests on how to drive cleanly and fairly in wheel to wheel racing with opponents, and the addition of Enduance/Fuel economy challenges was neat in GT7, but it could be interesting to also have a challenge/test where you aim to conserve fuel/tyres but also maximise a lap time.
Also better use of UI elements to teach drivers like when they should be manually shifting, getting on the throttle, how to trail on the brake and how much steering input, etc. in a bid to teach players more complex techniques.
The driving tests in GT were a unique concept in the early days of GT because it was something Kazunori had in mind to bring concepts that were actually taught in real driving schools to a video game environment. Except now that technology has improved, the license tests still remain virtually the same as they have since Gran Turismo 4. Ultimately, this is really an issue of Kaz' "vision", and whether resources will be allocated to a part of the game which will likely be glossed over by most of the player base and have little replayability, which is sad because driver education can only improve the competitive pace of everyone involved and lead to cleaner, safer and more enjoyable racing.
0:52 I feel attacked.
💀💀☠☠
This video has a problem:
you're trying to speak for others, but you're only speaking for yourself.
I really enjoy reading any text that pops up in GT and I've always enjoyed reading them. I also find it much more personal when I read and learn myself than when someone tells me with a voice what to do. It's also generally better for learning if you figure out how to go faster yourself, and Gran Turismo gives you that freedom by only providing you with rough information. It's absolutely not outdated to have long Texts in a driving simulation.
Only people with attention disorders cannot read long texts. Gran Turismo is a game for real car enthusiasts who love to spend time pursuing their passion, not for the average Gen Z speedrunner who has never seen grass.
The actual problem is most of the people watching this ARE Gran Turismo enthusiasts already. The ideas I make in this video are catered towards casual and new players, which in this day and age people do tend to pay less attention to things. If you want new players to stick to a game then the game has to do more work to keep them there.
There’s a reason you see all these guides on UA-cam and online racing schools, it’s because the game fails to actually teach you something, instead it just believes you can brute force your way to gold on the tests before rage quitting the game and moving on.
Most casual players hate doing the license tests, while some enthusiasts love the challenge of them. It’s not a matter of speaking for others it’s just how things are
@@RowdyGT I don't know if that's the case. In your comments, most people say that they prefer it as it is. And the YT videos with tutorials are for those who have difficulties for a long time. But this is available for every racing game without exception. Gran Turismo is simply a game series that places a lot of emphasis on the personal and just wants to leave the player alone. Your video generally contains a lot of claims based solely on personal experience.
I agree having some sort of proffesional guidance to tunning and racing tecniques would gretaly help the new people coming into sim racing to learn about car dynamics and how it changes in different situations
On top of it not teaching the fundamentals, license tests no longer really count towards anything since they no longer serve as a gateway to higher tier races. If they recorded quality audio dubs possibly from a licensed real life driving school rather than the old walls of text, and actually put more effort into the teaching, and the licenses unlocked new races or game modes, I think it would be more successful. Granted, people are going to complain with any change but if it's well-designed driver training that actually helps people rather than just challenging them, it could instead be something helpful. I guess the challenge is making something that is helpful to new people but also not seen as a waste of time to long time players.
Ironically even Ferrari Challenge Trofeo Pirelli (and Ferrari The Race Experience, both made by Eutechnyx)'s Tutorial works better. Sure Its just 2 laps around Fiorano in the cover car, but you got Tiff Nedell explaining you how to handle said car
Gran Turismo's license test taught me sim racing. at start of each test there is a tip.
So You're saying that the Skip Barber's Section from GT4's booklet should've been inside the game as videos?
Would have been seen by way more people, I myself didn’t even know such thing existed. With the older games though there is the issue of taking up too much space on the disc. GT4 was packed to the brim on a dual layer disc, it didn’t have room for anything else
@@RowdyGT It would've been a great idea if it was in game.
Send monies.
I will disagree on "you need training video dubbed by famous racer"
I do agree that GT license test can be very frustrating because you feel that they tedious and not teaching you properly. However could you imagine how annoying to watch video over and over again hearing the same sound because you somehow skip a section and need to restart ENTIRE tutorial video.
What we need is a "interactive teaching pamflet" that show you step by step how tackle the test or explain what you need to do in tuning. It's basically glorified powerpoint slideshow but instead wall of text or boring graphic you have something that point you directly on the solution and tell you properly how to do it.
Keep in mind that language barrier is thing and GT doesnt have every language localized in the game. When I was a kid I still cant read english properly and I only know simple english. Most of the time I only read the goal and see any available pointer but can't understand properly the tips that they show on text.
I know this comment is 2days after vid , but in Gran Turismo PSP (Mobile) the demonstration has voice acting and tells you the key for the test
The beauty lies in try and fail, honestly having some useful explaination it's cool, but it's not necessary.
Imagine having a video tutorial on dark souls, cool, but not necessary
You mirror my thoughts that the license tests feel somewhat hollow in the current era. That they can do so much more to improve them.
The main issue is competition. There is none. Thats why we end up with the "Forza" gamer stereotype. Where players dont know what racing lines are or what braking even is. Forza doesnt even bother with teaching, and thats the only big name rival GT has
The thing is with Licens tests in GT7 have nothing to do with the campaign mode at all anymore. Either they should remove it or get it back to how it was before. Now ypu only need like A and B licences to complete the game.
I Nevers really learn from the licence test and i suck at Them (the s10 licence in gt7 took me 3h to get bronze)
i feel like the reason the license tests were not expanded or evolved, is because for millions of casual of players its just something to grind extremely easy bronzes on to progress the game. its not really about learning unless the player decides to make it about it. its just an earlygame chore. to someone that actually wants to challenge themselves and learn its possible from the available resource, but to make everyone go through the *actual learning* process would make it a much more annoying of a chore.
I get your point, is a valid point, ok? But I just think you (or the average player you are talking to) is TOO DAMN LAZY. GT since gt1 and gt2 has wall text and demos videos. That's enough to anybody, you wanna get better, read again, watch again, and use the previous skills you adquired based on previous test/licences. Yes, Nascar is a great example to make it more visual and that's VERY IMPORTANT, I agreed they could make it cooler and enrich that experience. But If you wanna talk about GT catching up with the curret era, I think they must put a lot of effort on RACING CLEAN ONLINE, rather than being get better tutorial for Licences. Just take all that you said but make it for online racing, you already know how to drive because you made the licence, know teach respect, clean pass theory, race craft and clean moves.
My point was more along the lines of implementing real life driving & racing classes into Gran Turismo in interactive video content format. If you are trying to get into IRL road racing you would take classes and coaching sessions from professionals to get your racing license, they don’t throw you in the car and say “Alright get from point a to point b in 34 seconds and let me know when you finish”
The license test may help you improve as a driver, but I think the point is that they are a challenge.
Also it is fun to try and beat your friends times.
If anything, NASCAR 2005’s educational vids being more informative than GT7’s “outdated” license tests really says a lot about modern gaming society in general lol. I even heard one time about Richard Burns Rally (yes, THE Richard Burns Rally) having straight up rally driving lessons built into the game being far better than the modern WRC games’ introductory portions.
I swear GT Sport had Demonstration vids were better as they had commentary that explained what to do to go along with it
Bom dia meu amigo Rowdy é vou passando nessa quarta para deixar a moral na sua jogatina top...
My take on this is that for an extra few dollars more, they could give the Beyond the Apex book as standard upon release. It contained information from Basic driving skills, Tuning, Basic circuit information and vehicle information and their respective drivetrains with respective advantages and disadvantages. It's why from the 1st Gran Turismo (at least the Japanese copy I used to have before), they always provide a book to give us a brief rundown on how car racing works to fine tuning your car.
I have a Beyond the Apex physical book from GT5 somewhere, if I haven't lost it. But GT7 has the digital version. It's informative and well-written. Pretty engaging IMO, but I guess if you're not a reader, it just sucks? Hm.
agree to disagree, most guides for games are horrifically misleading or vague. having the demo is already a godsend and more than enough
what is this video? damn son even the red arrow..
It’s an eeeeevil science experiment for UA-cam
@@RowdyGT amazing
They could make it like in Gran Turismo 5 where the License Test are optional
so, basically gran turismo 4 prologue, but better done
License tests and driving missions are soulless, only for speedrunning but not for players into cars or racing.
I personally don't mind the licence tests but yeah I think they need to be revised. I admire Kaz putting them in there as since the beginning he implemented all those lessons from his personal experience in motorsport school. But we live in a more modern era now and it really needs to be changed up. I agree with the mention of GT not teaching race craft , racing dynamics and other variables. Some of the original tests are still very much important. Like accelerating and braking. Taking corners etc. But yeah...def needs to be changed.
They could take a page from Konami with how they did tuning for Enthusia. The values were easy to understand and it would help a lot of other people who aren't familiar with spring rate, damper settings etc
With the current physics that evolved from GT Sport, I personally found its actually easier to learn more by using real life track guides as references for license tests and circuit experiences. Sure the current physics aren’t as detailed or polished as AC/ACC or iRacing, but now its a bit closer to real life than previous numbered GT titles.
With that being said, yeah I honestly rather have the real life racing/driving pros teaching stuff through license tests or circuit experiences demos, instead of E-sport pros that shows or encourages us to drive it in utmost unrealistic ways possible.
'When a game requires a lot of third party information that is bad game design' - Ever played Ark Survival Evolved? I've never come across a game where I literally had to google everything, until Ark came along 🤣
I believe that another problem is that in GT7, to progress through the game, you only need the National A license to do everything in career mode. Meaning that International B and above... don't mean nothing.
A dang nascar gamer teach more than a sim-race game
The whole game is outdated tbh
It’s all about practice
For me it's just a fun part of the game, also I liked the fact that licenses in GT4 unblocked new events! And championships and new tracks etc... I want the proper GT4 career mode along with the Sport Mode we all play now... Where are the 24h events, B-spec for help, 1000 miles races .. we had so many long races and now that the game supports day night cycle and variable weather we get 1 hour races at most... Why? Is it that hard to create a nice lively map like GT4 and freedom like we had in GT4 ?
The latter half of GT Sport’s driving school taught things like fuel management and pit strategy and basics of drifting, it’s a shame this sort of thing wasn’t taught sooner or incorporated into GT7’s licences. For the future, would be cool if a narrated preview tells you how to tackle the test successfully, or if that’s too much even a preview of a particular licence as a whole so players know what’s expected of them
i do not agree with you
Enthusia''s driving revolution mode is what Gran Turismo's license tests need to be teaching the player at what speed that car should be with the checkpoints.
I quite like the licenses but I'd love that tuning/setup idea where you drive a car before and after a setup change. Suspension tweaks especially!
Another great exemple of a racing game that teachs you didactically the fundamentals of driving, more specifically in *rallying* is the First Dirt Rally. With a series of videos you can find on the menu where it teachs you every single aspect of driving, techniques, different surfaces, car drivetrains, tuning and etc.
License tests have one keyword: *patience.*
If you can't get the gold on one of the tests, go to the next one.
If you can't get the gold on that either, exit the license center, get one of your cars and go around in lap mode.
Do something else.
Take your time.
This reminds me of how Gran Turismo 4 Prologue has a narrator voice read the text walls out loud for you.
NASCAR inside line (2012) was my fav game.
very nice video rowdy!
i never thaught this way about licenses, i kinda agree with you
Outdated but i wont ever wanna miss it
Is your channel name inspired from Kyle Busch's nickname Rowdy?
No, Kyle Busch got the nickname from me 🗣️🗣️🗣️
uh oh
Hi Rowdy