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Trane package unit problems
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- Опубліковано 18 сер 2024
- This was a service call on a Trane Package unit not working,I found that the unit had a bad compressor contactor, a dirty condenser and it was a little overcharged. Give it a watch and let me know what you think.
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A note for the guys who are new to working on these units....if that is a YCD036 RTU, know that the three pole contactor only breaks two of the compressor phase legs. The other pole is for the condenser fan motor and the crankcase heater. Never assume that a three pole contactor breaks all there legs. In this setup, that one unbroken leg will make everything hot, and a shock can result if you assume that side is dead. It isn't dead. Turn off the disconnect and look inside to make sure ALL power is off.
It's not OCD it's Pride in Workmanship thumbs up!
Pride in workmanship and efficiency should matter. I don't want to pay you to bs around.
I agree 100%. It is the little things like correcting upside down writing that differentiates the good from the great.
It's OCD, but it's cool. Keep making vids man.
It's not OCD... It's called being a Perfectionist.
Means you pay attention to detail and are not a hack!!
Too many hack's out there!!
"..funky shit.." One of those highly technical HVAC terms.
I've been troubleshooting for about 35 years, not all HVAC, but you've taught me a lot. I love your professionalism. Respect.
Thanks so much Robert!
Nothing special about me, I've just made a ton of mistakes and am trying to share those so you dont make the same ones!
@@HVACRVIDEOS get the
Hey Chris, without a doubt & no disrespect to the other guys who make HVAC videos on YT, I have to say that your videos are hands down the best out there. First of all I like I the good audio & visual quality of your videos. Second of all I feel like I am a apprentice out there on the jobsite with you as you are teaching me the fundamentals of troubleshooting HVAC & refrigeration equipment. It is not uncommon for me to watch the same videos numerous times trying to squeeze out every tidbit of information I can get from you. I also make sure to take notes from these videos that I can use for future reference. I really appreciate these videos. I also love the recap where you discuss the situation & how you corrected the problem. You have a real talent for teaching & instructing. Keep the videos coming!
Thanks man!!!
Your the reason I make these videos
I couldn't agree more with you Robert.
Thanks
Here, Here
As an apprentice, you don't realize how helpful these videos are with your in-depth explanations. Thank you!
Thanks for watching bud and I'm glad they help you
Even as a new Journeyman I still learn a lot from these videos
Thanks Jason!
Your videos are really unparalleled to anything else HVAC on youtube. As a lady in this trade you've really helped me to gain confidence that I never had. Considering my gender already makes people unsure of my ability this goes beyond helping me on service calls and begins breaking nessecary societal problems. Thank you.
People don't realize that simple maintenance like filter change and condenser cleaning and inspections can make a unit last a long long time, my one neighbor still has his AC unit from the 70's and it runs more quiet then the new ones lol
That’s the thing in HVAC you can never stop learning. Thanks maestro!
Thank god I’m not the only guy that changes the contactor data plate. I can’t stand reading upside down 😂
You have nice tools.
Just a friendly suggestion while testing the contactor. While the contactor is engaged (system hot) and the cover off like you had it. Perform a voltage drop test across each "contactor" like you did while toning except set meter to voltage so you will be checking voltage drop, you should read 0 volts, anything significantly greater indicates a problem, this way the system is loaded and you can identify which contactor is "dropping" voltage. The problem with performing a continuity test is the meter only lets out a very small current to pass so if there is high resistance in the circuit, the small current will still pass through and the meter will indicate continuity which falsely confirms a good connection. but when you load the system down only a small amount of current passes through because of the high resistance in the faulty (in this case contactor) hence the voltage drop across the faulty connection. Remember, resistance is a robber of voltage. Great video! Sorry for my winded explanation. You definitely nailed it though.
Issue with tone test is ... the tone test uses just mA current. so there is a slim chance that a failing swtich or relay pass anyways because is not under actual load. Also, tone circuits (cont test) are not well protected in meters. If for any reason happens the circuit have voltage you can blow the meter appart no jokes. Im talking about 100 to 200 dollar range meters. Of course this is not happening with Fluke, Brymen. You dont need to go nuts with a Fluke, Brymen is fine. I dont do HVAC, but use meters a lot, I dont have a Fluke. They are sky expensive here ... so Im using a good price / performance meter but it is unprotected. You need to walk very carefull with them. I do power supply repair and 311V DC is all over the place. I will get a Fluke in the end. But you need big bucks for a decent one like the 87, 89, 289 etc.
Good call. As an automotive mechanic, the voltage drop test is one of the most helpful diagnosis techniques that practically nobody understands or uses.
When the contacts get corroded they will start to act like an oxide semiconductor and have a nominal voltage drop that creates lot of heat. Eventually the oxides build up and voltage drop increases to a point of blocking instead of conducting. Thus voltage drop method can also tell if a part is on its way to failure.
I forgot about the double coil today while cleaning a 10 ton icp rooftop. Damn it, I need to go back and take another look. Thanks bro. I am self employed and always try to do it right...
“Fieldpiece does what I want it to” as it falls off LOL
I like the magnet ...it falls.😂
Been doing resi and commercial HVAC for 17 years now. You do a great job explaining things. I hope a lot of younger techs are watching your vids.
Thanks bud
Yup! Younger tech here doing industrial refrigeration. Love these videos. Very helpful.
Great I love a real tradesman who enjoys his trade thumbs up we need more of you you a dying breed
Before I even finished watching I have to let you know that this a great info about the double coil, most people when they go to HVAC school are not informed that, great job.
Thanks bud
You make Great Videos ,been in this Industry for almost 50 yrs but Love Watching a Person of Talent to the Trade, keep it up Great Job from a Now to be Old Timer to the Youngsters , Lol
thanks for the nice words!! and thanks for watching!
Good stuff... I’m a local 638 service tech in New York City and we come across these calls all the time.. so thank u for ur input it was helpful...I take pride in my work even when no one’s looking...Your videos are spot on and I enjoy watching them it makes me want to do a better job
I'm not an HVAC guy, wrench turner by trade but I learn a lot every video you do! Keep it up.
Thanks Keith!
I am new to the HVAC trade just graduated school last month and I wanted to thank you for taking the time to create these videos. I watch one video every day to continue to grow my knowledge in this industry. Hoping to land a job in the industry soon. Thx
Nothing wrong with OCD!!!!
Attention to detail is what we need in this industry.
Not slap and stick...
Keep up the good work and videos
I like your thoroughness, you don’t see that very often. Looking forward to watching more of your content.
thanks for watching!!
The Trane Voyager.Right up there with train ycy and carrier/bdp 585 in the running for the Timex of the package unit's. Absolutely a must to check double pass coils. Well done sir. We need more tech's like you in our industry.
Great thoroughness in your service call. Most techs would have just changed the contactor and got the unit up and going again. Not only did you get the unit up and going again you got it running properly.
Richard Morinelli Unfortunately you are probably right. I do right by the customers because they are the one’s paying the bills. Sometimes though there are too many calls to spend the time necessary to do what’s right. In those cases I explain to the customer and most the time I’m able to return to finish the job the right way.
I learned the hard way to always check 3 phase power. Especially when there is numerous contractors running different equipment, it will trick you into thinking something is bad when it really isn’t just getting enough voltage.Anyway, good job man I learn a lot from you and Nor cal Dave! Wish I was still in Cali I would def go work with you. Your knowledge is priceless man. God bless brotha 🤙🏻
You do such a good job. I wish you could teach me. I am 13 and i helped fix my grammas ac. She had a leak in the txv. I was offerd a ride along.
Thanks for the vid, I’m new to the trade, and soaking up as much as I can. Guys like you help me grow and learn. Thank you
I came across this channel by accident and never even really noticed these things but dam this shits interesting af. Subbed!
Thanks bud
You're a great instructor, I just wish you had this youtube channel 30 years ago. But still, I highly recommend your tutorials to even the most seasoned vets, Thank you so much!
Very professional. I am an apprentice and learning alot from your videos. Just doing commercial a few weeks ago kinda nervous. Thanks for your vids post more.
Good call on not having the writing upside down I cant stand that either. lol
I just call them orifices. When checking a Trane lean the access cover as tight as possible. , to gauge head pressure. Very important on larger units with multiple fans and compressed. I appreciate your hosing the roof down. Good lob. I am retired after 50 years on A/C and Boilers. I once went on a heat call on Florida. Th store had 6 Roof Top Gas units with A/C. There were 6 gas lines stubbed at each unit, no new were ever connected in the 5 years since built! North Florida had gone into the teens!
That doesn't surprise me about the heaters never being hooked up, I have ran into that before out here in California. Thanks for watching bud!
I don’t want to question your knowledge, I think your work and knowledge sharing is one of the best . Jim Bergman did a measure quick update and air probe placement. And if you saw it as this video may be posted in your busy schedule, I only would like too share another smart person update. Thanks for all you do.
Thanks for your contribution to the trade man. I’ve been a tech in the HVAC/R industry over 30 years and it’s good to see someone that cares about doing the job right instead of breezing through going for the quick money. Keep up the good work. Enjoy your videos!
Bravo on hitting all the points. Working with cranes is no joke. We used to have to make sure the bridges on the way to the site could hold the weight to. Lots go into these things. Great vid.
My Jman during 2nd and 3rd year was good but he didn't take the time to explain things in such a clear way like you do. Any apprentice that gets the chance to work with you is lucky as hell.
Signed,
Your HVAC brothers up north (where reversing valves fail to heat ;)).
The contactor issue is a great example of why loaded circuit testing is so important. Ohm meters are great, but they don't simulate the full load of the circuit, and don't give a clear measure of voltage drop in the circuit. There was obviously a massive voltage drop across the contactor, but it wasn't something the continuity tester flagged. Good video, for sure. I deal with AC systems, but in the automotive repair field. Still, there are some similarities as far as basic diagnosis. Enjoying these industrial AC videos. Very informative, with great diagnostic tips.
Chris,
You need to help the other guys by showing your talent and your knowledge. Many thanks for taking the time and showing us how you take pride of the work that you do!!!!
I love this field. It's a real resource being able to find channels like yours on UA-cam. I'm about a year and a half into thus field and I am making money and loving it.
Right on brother!!
You're a good man. You take pride in your work and not like others will only want to get in and out as soon a possible. Later will get another call on the same unit and now the owner thinks the tech or company is not good and will call a different tech/company. Doing it right will last a long time and will get called again.
Chris is a beast among beasts in the HVAC REFER world. Definitely making excellent knowledgeable videos. 👍👍👍
Thanks bud!!
I do cap tubes and orifices as the same. And you did have that condenser section door panel on when you were checking it right cuz the fan will pull true the least resistance opening. You sure seem like a good man to me. Just because you want the writing so you can read it. Nice and thorough. Keep up the good work
Just a side note, been using the fieldpiece probes, all of them for a few years now, you only have to sand before putting pipe clamps on if the pipe is real bad with buildup of some sort, or painted obviously. But if it's just tarnished, no need to sand. I will just put the clamp on and move it back n forth like 6 times and it makes its own little cleaned off marks on the pipe. Works great
Been watching your vids the past few days. Well done. Love the way you talk us through the repair. Have subscribed.
Stay safe.
Awesome vid, I appreciate how you go above and beyond to make things all the more safe and efficient. Keep up the great work.
“Pulled out a little bit of charge” AKA bled it into a bucket of water 🤣
I know who bothers roping up cyliders, pumps, scales ect. for 1/2 pound , but i see why he convieniently didnt film that part lol, epa might be watching his vids
Use it to clean drains
when you have screwy voltages with the contactor energized, consider that you may be getting a reading coming back from the compressor. pull off the compressor wires and see if the reading changes.
Looking at everything basically gives ya a better understanding on why it’s so important to inspect for unexpected issues on service calls.- the Big Picture, speaks for itself. Excellent point.
The only thing I’d add is on the contactor, you could have verified the contactor as being bad by checking voltage across the contacts. So, you’d check voltage from L1 (line) to L1 (load). If you read any voltage over about 2 or 3 on the same leg leg like that, you should change the contactor. Also, when you read the ohms across the contacts, anything over 1 ohm should indicate an issue. That one read above thirty. Good going on this one homie!
I was going to say the same thing-check the voltage drop across the contacts on each phase. It's a much more accurate way of determining the connection quality vs. ohm measurements. It might take as little as 0.2 ohms resistance to start causing low voltage problems on some circuits, and 0.2 ohms is within the noise/fluctuation of most meters, whereas most will measure fractions of a volt easily. If the voltage drop is more than a volt or two I would think about replacing the contacts. If you are running 25 amps through with a 1 volt drop that means the contacts have to dissipate 25W of heat, so it adds up quickly.
I think he could be sure the contactor was faulty due to the voltage readings difference from supply to load
Very simple and detail videos, i am not an AC guy but i learned a lot from your video, thank you for all your info.
I cant stop watching this channel. A genius at work. Very knowledgeable and educational. 👍🏾👍🏾👍🏾👍🏾👍🏾👍🏾
i just call it a fixed metering device. either expansion valve or fixed via cap tube, piston, etc. great vid Chris!
Great Job well done. You've treated this unit like if it was yours, taken extra steps/concerns. I've just started working few months ago as a HVAC Technician thru an apartments complex; of course most units that we work on it they're all about the same. Is not like you that you're gone to different places of variety of a/c units.
Thanks for watching!
Still watching, lol. Not sure how I found this channel but here I am. I owned a restaurant for 15 years so maybe I can relate? Regardless these are fun to watch. Thanks for the content my man.
My first run in with a double row condensing coil, when I was an apprentice was a 15 ton Trane package unit, at a commercial printing business. I had hi condensing pressure. I washed the coil several times, and still had the same high pressure. Like you, I removed the top and saw the double coil. I split the coil and the inside was full of paper pulp, it looked like a laundry lint trap completely plugged.
I remember my first split condenser and I never forgot it. Thanks for watching bud
I don't know if you want to do this, but what would be cool to see are timeframes. Like labelling what time it is when you're recording or just how many hours it's been as you've continued working on it. Gives an average on how long services typically take from an experienced technician. That'd be awesome for me as a new guy to set a standard for myself to meet and improve my efficiency.
Total respect. G'day from Australia. You operate exactly the way I do when working on equipment.
Thanks for watching!
YOU having OCD... couldn't imagine it... NOT!!! Best techs/mechanics are OCD in their own way. Be proud of it and wear it as a badge of honor.
It is definitely a series of capillary tubes which are fixed usually crushed or pinched tubes. Pistons move back and forth as refrigerant flow changes direction usually in heat pumps.
Double row coils are extra fun for those of us in areas with cottonwood trees...
I think my "favorite" units are the Carrier 10 ton split condensers with triple row coils, those are a blast to split and clean by yourself!
Don’t make assumptions,take your time and do your best. Thanks a lot for taking the time to make this videos and detail your work.
I really appreciate your videos. I’ve been binge watching them at this point lol. I just graduated from a trade school still waiting to get picked up from a company but I hope to be good as you one day. Keep making videos i’m going to need more soon.
Thank you for making these videos! I have watched so many lately! I’m a Resi-Rat making his way into the commercial world! I love your mantra too “Do your Best! It’s not going to be Perfect”. I’m inspired to do my Best! Thank you dude!❤
Thanks for taking time to make the videos brother. I learn alot from you explaining things when your recording
Thanks for watching, I will be going live this evening 3/25/19 @5:PM (pacific time) on UA-cam to discuss my most recent uploads come on over and check it out if you can... ua-cam.com/video/Bqx-RSJsidY/v-deo.html
I know that metering device as short orifice header. I would say piston as well. I’ve found those restricted, so replaced with TXV. Good work man!
Great video and gotta say, nothing wrong with a little OCD when working in this field. I never understood why Trane put that structural piece of metal that prevents you from fanning that coil outwards instead of inward. 👍
Thanks for watching bud!
beautiful work and especially taking the maintenance in to consideration with it needing that cleaning to bring the head pressure down. man I know that's satisfying when you clean the unit and see that pressure go to where it originally needs to be and able to improve the paste on getting you the full diagnosis.
Problem with the Contactor? B phase contacts are burnt to crap...
Hey man just want to say your videos have motivated me to become a better tech. I'm new to the industry and was lost until I found your videos. Keep up the great work and know you are really doing a service to technicians around the world.
For RTU's (Packaged units) if the coil has a curve there is a very good chance its a double condenser, if its a flat slab coil, it wont be. Quick tip
I’d call it a fixed orifice or piston.
Capillary usually have length and diameter ( that’s what she said)
To control liquid refrigerant.
1st time watching but i must say your tools are really professional grade nothing like having the right tools for the job makes it much easier and most importantly enjoyable.
Thanks bud
Thank you for coming up with this channel. Great help.
1st year apprentice
Good ole Trane. I've worked on some that was a triple coil. Good explanation to the other guys.
Thanks bud
For sure not a cap tube. Since cap tunes are defined by their length, ID and their number of turns. Just a series of Pistons on each cicuit.. Great video, like always Chris..
Perfection is the only acceptable standard. Great video!
Best HVAC channel period
Thanks bud
This is a very enlightening video , fortunately it is the same unit in my blog. Except mine has 2 compressors.
Did not know that about the wires on trane units. I have noticed there was lettering but I never knew what it stood for.
I see a trane before the week is over, I'll take a peak at the schematic to see if it makes things simpler
I see a lot of hackery on older trane package units
Thanks for this tip, I might be able to get through some wires that look like bird's nests
I have been worked as A.C. CONTROL TEHNICIAN in such unit like TRANE, LENNOX, STOLWAY AND SCIENTIFIC, FRIEDRICH Pakage and window ac''S in shuaihba refinery.....kuwait
I would say piston not cap tube. My first thought was overcharged but clearly splitting and cleaning the coil helped. Good video, thanks.
I kinda had the suspicion of overcharge first too, but the coil needed to be cleaned regardless so it all worked out! Thanks for watching
Awesome video your OCD just makes you a great technician
Excellent we'll thought out trouble shooting. Nothing like years of experience and knowledge to allow ones "gut" to assist in that. Well done.
Thank you for the follow up on the Superheat being to low issue..I had noticed,and was going to ask you about that.Always appreciate your videos Sir. Your an Excellent Tech,Big Picture and Follow thru. Thanks !!
I Iove ur videos brother keep up the good work
I will be going live on UA-cam this evening 4/15/19 at 5:PM (pacific time) if you can come over and watch the stream ua-cam.com/video/Ft4L_-G7zzI/v-deo.html
Hi Chris; I have watched some of your videos and have been impressed with your knowledge and thoroughness. This is my first time commenting. I missed your delta T reading across the evap coil.
Low super heat might have been slight over charge, but also possible air flow problem. You said the filters
were clean. I assume the evap coil was clean. In my 45 years in the field I always look downstairs at the return air grills. Those grills could be plugged causing restricted air flow. Notorious culprits in restaurants
and convenient stores. Also, this system is more a cap tube type system, than a piston type. Cap tubes are
multiple metering devices, as opposed to 1 piston or one txv. You have multiple pistons which operate more
like cap tubes. I am also the inventor and patent holder of a product called "The Tank" vacuum pump oil change caddy marketed and sold by JB Industries. Maybe you heard of it.
Chris; I totally forgot to comment on the contacter. It was very telling that the middle contacts were more burned than the left and right ones. I would wonder why did this happen? Dirty condenser, check. Low super heat, check. What about loose connections on compressor terminals or loose connections in the disconnect box. I have also seen loose connections at the circuit breaker screws.
Thanks for watching William yeah I will have to re watch the video to remember everything, I will get back to you. About "THE TANK" that really cool I actually have a few of them at my company, I give them to all my guys. It really made draining the oil from the JB pumps so much easier, no more holding a cup under the pump!
Great videos!! Love that you thoroughly investigate every unit you come up to. Not just fix the problem and walk away. Can't wait to see more vids in the future! Keep it up
2:41 I will stop right there. I had the same exact problem today.
SPOILERS:
Contactor middle lug was burnt out & the plunger didn't make good contact. As soon as I took the cover off the inside was black & the middle plunger was broken off. Let's see if you have the same issue Chris...
Pretty much! That and a plugged inner condenser and a slight overcharge
Nice video! I don't have much experience with refrigeration equipment so I appreciate a good RTU video. Keep up the good work and happy Labor Day!
Thanks bud and same to you!
You are not alone with the OCD.
Great videos bro! Those headers are something special for Shure lol. I really enjoy watching you work on refrigeration systems, low temp has been challenging for me and I don't get in front of it everyday. Thanks for making the videos!
Thanks for watching!
Hello Chris - another good demonstration video. Really enjoy the SH and SC section.
Thanks for watching, I will be going live on UA-cam this evening 5/13/19 @ 5:PM (west coast time) to discuss my most recent uploads and answer questions from the chat. Come check it out if you can ua-cam.com/video/tQb9QK9LnH4/v-deo.html
Very Nice vid. I definitely picked up something from this ( splitting the coils) no one ever said anything to man about that, nor have I seen anyone do it. Keep up the nice work
Thanks for watching bud!
No problem, it was my pleasure. You just earned a New Sub.
Great video very thorough. Good tip with the measurequick .
OCD is just fine. Wish more people were like that. Enjoyed your video. I’m not even an HVAC guy.. this stuff just fascinates me! Keep it up!
I like to watch this guy!! Only when he compared the Hvac technician to the refrigeration technician , he said that the Hvac technician with experiance can never be a good refrigeration tech , the only diference is refrigeration system has more control devices and the major difference havc and refrigeration is you work to preserve human confor that can wait and refrigeration to preserve food that can not wait and cost thousand of dollars, also troublshooting field is huge and you never be perfect, any one can be refrigeration tech even without experience!! And you know!!
Another thing the exhaust fan in the side of the storage room behind this A/C, was an additional excess hose job that an informed tech has added sometimes in the past. Creating more negative pressure in the building, adding problem rather than solving anything.
Manufacturers don't make equipment to be practical in real world use. Split condensers and closely spaced fins give them a high rating that would be great if it was used in a clean room. In the real world, they get dirty almost instantly and their efficiency drops.
Ain't that the truth! Thanks for watching bud
Good job Chris
Nice clean and repair C||C . Yep, back in galaxy far away there where Day & Night double row coils. Trane choo choo, seen them as went through factory many times in Tyler,Tx.MeasureQuick is great fit to tool bag.