THIS TRANE SPACESHIP JUST STOPPED WORKING
Вставка
- Опубліковано 15 тра 2024
- This unit is a bit much for a little restaurant like this but I got it back up and running as best as possible.
HVACR VIDEOS NEW MERCH WEBSITE - www.hvacrvideos.com
Please consider supporting my channel by
Becoming a Patreon member - Patreon / hvacrvideos
Becoming a UA-cam channel member / @hvacrvideos
By purchasing tools via my affiliate links below at TRUTECHTOOLS.COM and use the offer code BIGPICTURE to save 8% on your total purchase (exclusions apply)
Visiting my website and purchasing merch www.hvacrvideos.com
HVAC OVERTIME CHANNEL LINK - / hvacovertime
Social Media
Facebook / hvacr-videos. .
Instagram / hvacrvideos
For any inquiries please contact me at chris@hvacrvideos.com
Mailing Address
HVACR VIDEOS
12523 LIMONITE AVE.
440 - 184
MIRA LOMA, CA. 91752
2025? Well that is an early upload!
I almost started having an existential crisis and panicking because I haven't remembered a single thing from 2024
Give this a like if you are watching this in 2025.
😂
2025? Wow it also does time travel
It uses Hasslein's Hypothesis. My bet is there are a bunch of apes as waiters in the restaurant. I'd be careful Chris they might capture you and do experiments on you!!
Only when it gets hit by lightning while travelling 88 miles per hour.
Or Slingshots the sun to talk to Macintosh, I mean save whales or something...
And he didn't even fix it 😂 I had to look at my calendar, to make sure I didn't miss a year
@@keith_5584 "Hello, Computer."
So they spend all this research and development time to create a unit with self diagnosis and maximum effeciency, and then they put a sensitive electrical component in an area that is guaranteed to be high in humidity during normal operation. Brilliant.
It is brilliant, designed to fail and create more work 😂
All hail the all mighty 💵 😂
Their banners at the shops, it's hard to stop a trane.. Yeah because they never start 😂😂😂
It's seems like such a racket. I genuinely wonder if the cost of throwing replacement parts in a landfill doesn't just destroy any "efficiency" gain you got by using them in the first place. Same with the required economizer. I have to have one, but I can set it to mix however I want, what did we accomplish, California?
Carrier has been putting them directly next to their evaps as well. Ive been bypassing when they fail and leaving them out.
I was yelling at my screen when you fixed all the time elements except the year (it ain't 2025 yet!). 😮
I work for a Trane Comfort Specialist for almost 20 years, and I love the product . That being said, it's always a " shake my head" moment for me to see technology that is supposed to save you up to 40% on energy consumption but ultimately ends up eating all that savings up in repairs (that are usually close to 1800 bucks minimum), and usually will have multiple expensive electronic failures in the future. It's not just Trane, manufacturers are literally engineering the reliability out of everything with this high falootin' crap.
The more bells and whistles a unit has, the more there is to break down in my opinion… Awesome video Chris!!! 👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻
Kiss keep it simple stupid
Thanks
Here here I say
wow videos from the future
Neat video, man. I did commercial and industrial refrigeration and HVAC before cancer took me out of the game. I still miss doing the work but my body can't hold up to 8-10 hours a day of it again. It's nice to be able to sit and watch what I loved to do so I can hold on to my knowledge. Thank you.
5:31 thanks for the jump scare lmao
I thought he somehow got zapped
Right!?! What happened??? Startled the crap out of me
Capacitor maybe? :o I couldn't tell either
Pretty sure he was losing grip on test leads and just trying to catch them
It got me too, rofl!
SO GLAD I retired 15 years ago.
Trane began their psychosis about 35 years ago!
The ECM motors were the final failures .
Condenser fans were sheer idocy!
As much air possible should go through that coil in the lower 48!
Unfortunately it's getting to the point that we have no other choice though. With how much electricity costs now, most people wouldn't be able to afford to continue using the old equipment with its power consumption. I agree with you, the older stuff worked great and didn't fail often. If energy sources didn't cost so much now I'd love to have them back.
Great video Chris. I've taken note of the following points:
1. The Trane engineers need to be adequately compensated and need to prioritize the work environment for the equipment and service technicians.
2. Trane wholesalers need to gain essential knowledge. It would help if they were familiar with their own equipment.
3. You've worked on a work order related to Trane spaceships🚀. You should consider meeting with someone like Elon Musk for such endeavours. 😆
The way I was instructed by Trane to reset the alarm on the VFD is to make sure the Unit is off on the touch screen then cycle power for about a minute. Once the screen comes back on then put the unit back to cooling or occupied or whatever it is programmed for. That clears the alarm of the vfd every time for me.
Hey Chris , when that TD5 display module boots up it automatically goes into a screen calibration mode. In the future , don’t touch the screen in that calibration mode and it will time itself out after 30-45 seconds and resume normal operation. You’re lucky that the screen calibration actually worked for you. I have seen a few of those displays bricked from the calibration process going wrong.
Thanks for the tip
That is an 'awesome' human interface design feature to frustrate the Un-Trane'd techs and help generate support revenue.......
Step #1: Power On
Step #2: Instruct Un-Trane'd tech to perform action
Step #3: IF Step#2 performed GOTO Step #1; ELSE timeout and resume normal boot sequence.
@@JlerchTampa you get the idea . The screen calibration is there for a reason, you just ignore it 99 percent of the time when you’re working on a system and use it only when the screen does something funky.
Never seen a vfd last in the blower compartment.
They are in Yorks as well like that
$100 motor starters get put inside the conditioned space, $1,000 drives get put in the pigeon poop.
Had one of those drives go bad, 8 months back order last year, called the ABB rep and they sized an ABB and we installed and got it up and running.
That “Trane” drive is actually a Danfoss drive - I’m willing to bet you could’ve found an identical drive in stock somewhere directly from them for cheaper than Trane sold it to you.
Also, that A38 fault was a communication error within the drive, if you take it apart a little you might be able to fix it and get yourself a working spare out of it!
Another spaceship had a 1201 alarm. Hat tip if you know which!
When the touch screens get really dirty around where the bezel meets the screen they don't respond to touch very well and won't calibrate. Take a wet wipe and clean the screen and around where the screen meets the bezel with the wet wipe and your fingernail. Get all that crud out of there and off the screen and that should do the trick. Automotive plants have thousands of touch screen HMI's and robot touch screen teach pendants. They are always dirty and not working well. A little cleaning works wonders. I think the 38 (1284) code is a communication fault (error) between the control card and the power card (don't have my manual for it anymore). Re-seating the cards in the drive and connectors going to the cards has been known to work.
Thanks for the tip
Reminds me of the Winnebego from SpaceBalls.
“Know what I mean….Vern?” Hahahahha I see you Chris, you’re the best. Ernest goes to camp and Ernest goes to jail we’re hilarious 🤣
This dude living in the future. Must have been the space ship.
I like the obvious premium build quality of this thing... as well as the late night engineering decisions inside it. Its always the "same" story - your project manager said: "VFD is a must!" =D ...and your boss: "No problem" :DD
And finally YOU, after only about ~27 restarts of CATIA did put the VFD somewhere, where did not die to overheat aftrer only a few days. =DD
Restaurants not doing maintenance , pigeons in the blower compartment, good for you getting the a/c back on without any negative attitude , on a hot roof.
VFDs save you 8% on that motor with a $100 a year of energy usage. The failed drive costs $1,000. Progress!
Be 10 years to get your money back lol
Well done Chris 👏... love that you used the control wires for the VFD and installed a contactor. 👍
Thanks
Supply fan failure on those is the air proving switch. It's looking for a contact closure. I remember chatting about this drive. Cool to see the video for it. Yeah about Trane Supply....they are seriously lacking in experienced people....I have that out here my way too.
Would be fun to find out if the main control unit will talk to a generic non trane branded vfd. You could probably make a bunch of money selling them :D
@tschuuuls486 won't work.. trane units need specific trane parts or they don't run.. I know from experience...
@tschuuuls486 all the board does is send a speed reference signal. It goes on AI1 normally. Besides the "trane" VFD is really a Danfoss with Tranes junk written all over it. You could replace it with any brand, the parameters is where it can get tricky. You'd have to program all the parameters yourself if you used, say an ABB. A drive is a drive. I've done it on Trane units. Normally I tend to go OEM just because it fits just right without any modifications and the programming is already done. It's not hard to do, just a little time consuming.
@@jasonjohnsonHVAC Nice, I thought it would communicate via serial with the drive or something. Can you dump the old parameters via usb and just upload them to a same brand drive?
@tschuuuls486 you sure can. It's a process, but definitely can be done. Usually on a trane they will have the HMI display in one part and the drive in the other with a cable to connect the 2. Is that what you were referring to a serial connection.
"it's only going to be in there for a couple days". just like that condenser fan motor? 🤣🤣 we know how it goes, working and out of sight out of mind.
**well surprise surprise, actually got the parts and installed them! lol
You jumped! Did your heart skip a beat? Glad you are okay.😅
Yes! Thank you!
I think if you had some wet wipes for the touch screen it would help you stop having problems with it. Needs to be free of dust or it thinks something is wrong. Thanks for sharing
Glad to see you posting videos on units like this, I've been getting thrown on calls expecting a light rtu unit only to come across this beast and not know what to do. They can be very intimidating.
The thing about drives is honestly they need a weather rated passively cooled drive
oh boy! the video you`ve been waiting for. The spaceship condenser fan motor that takes 100 years to ship LOL also a fault like that means the transducer in the thermostat detected that the customers wallet was getting fat
Great video haven’t work on RTU in last 20 years l remember the Trace Voyager RTU. We had lot of them in the northeastern area what happen did they over engineer these units for energy saving 😃
Chris, it worried me seeing ou using those LONG exposed probes on a high current 208 circuit, that's how arc flash happens, consider some probe shrouds?
After a full day of chasing down issues with a VRF system I was thinking I'd rather just work on package units.
Then this video reminded me of these particular units.
I think I'd rather stick with VRF systems.🙄
I've "temporarily" bypassed VFDs to get people going like that a few times.
I think I'm about 50/50 on the customers being willing to pay for a new VFD...🤣
Spaceship? You sure it's not a TARDIS? Being from the future that is... 🤣
I love working on these guys, there great units, only down side is train wanted to step there game up with controllers but they put them in bad spots. But I’ve made this repair 100 times in the tri-state.
Look like the unit one year in the future, this unit real old! Always be safe working on these units!
I will do my best in the future
I work on a lot of TRANE voyagers I never knew those units had variable speed compressors? Just simple contactors and a drive for the indoor blower motor. Good to learn new things
Do you have VRF units in the US? those would blow your mind - 3 sandwiched layers of PCBS with inverter boards etc crammed in everywhere, copper lines running everywhere like a maze. Canbus communication to all indoor units. Complexity is insane
The supply chain seems to be ruined on just about everything these days. Great job with the psc evap fan temporary fix and by passing the vfd for the indoor blower. They would have gotten a bit warm otherwise considering the fiasco they gave you getting the right parts. Covid is the excuse for our parts problems but I believe it goes way deeper than that. Great Job as usual. Have a quiet weekend 😊
Someone probably already mentioned this but the VFD with that error code means the drive's contactor is stuck closed (welded together), the VFD checks for this and when the contactor doesn't open inside it, it throws out that code, also you know we are in the year 2024 right lol, you didn't change the date from 2025. 😜
Amazing video.
Nice work.thanks for sharing.
Thanks for watching!
VFD need to be serviced regularly by a installation company (usually BAS techs), if not dirt builds up in the VFD and it will start putting up all types of faults for no reason.
Awesome machine, so much to learn
trying to get into hvac school that has refrigeration in GA. your channel got me into this
Anyone see that white wire had a run out spot? Saw copper through the insulation. 10:18 in the video
one of my clients has banned danfoss drives from their site entirely. some equipment only comes with danfoss, so they wait until the danfoss dies and then put something else in. they built a building a decade ago which had 50-100 danfoss drives in it, and not all stuffed in supply air plenums like this, most just standing on unistrut in mechanical rooms, and ten years later, only half the drives are still working. the other half were replaced with siemens bt300, which then got discontinued, so now they're only using ABB. they also like the reliability of yaskawa but their techs said they're really hard to program.
Danfoss drives are garbage. Just like their expansion valves, garbage.
Had a restaurant with 2 Tranes chillers with DX coils. Drives for first CFM on each circuit. In the 5 years servicing the place. I bet we replaced a dozen drives. Pretty sure our cost was over 2k per drive.
In my experience ABB drives are the best value. Availability, useability, flexibility, reliability.
@@murralsDanfoss everything seems to suck these days, even their hydraulic pumps and motors.
13:16 The dust and dirt on the screen might be causing it to think it's being touched in multiple places at once...
You likely should have cleaned it before starting to diagnose the unit...
Great video as always. Good job and Nice work. Thank you for sharing. It is, this trane is spaceship with a lot going on , components . I see you on Sunday ^_^ with another video ^_^
I had the same alarm last week. The VFD card was bad. Replaced drive all good now
Yorks often have the blower VFD right in the mixed air location close to the blower. I'm assuming they likely coat the circuitry to be compatible with a more humid environment... Also, the more bells and whistles with communicating equipment and VFD controls to help make the equipment run more efficiently will cost the customer less with energy but will always cost the customer more in the long run as these fancy parts are insanely expensive to replace when they break, and the expensive fancy parts are the ones that will break. Not a question of if, but when.
I've personally worked on these units a few times that have had faulty VFDs. I usually end up just replacing the VFD with the contactor since it is so much cheaper for the customer and just adjust the sheave for the proper amp draw and airflow.
I have changed a lot of VFDs and I mean a lot as in over 100. Usually they don´t even show an alarm refering to "I am broken". It can be everything from the obvious stuck at bootscreen to under or overvoltage which would be a real concern if it was true.
Great video as always.
Other than using more power what would be the downside of just leaving the contactor in there? I'm sure the cost of the vfd far outweighs any savings on the electric bill the vfd provides.
Biggest problems i have with VFD's is they are dirty and over heat. Heat is the killer of drives. Water isnt good either.
Another strange thing about this unit. Is the backwards configuration of the Idler Pulley for the Fan.
In that set up it is taking 'Grip" away from the other Pulleys Should be a Flat Pulley pulling the belt into the Drive/Driven Pulleys...
I have one of these on my roof for a bank. Glad i havnt had to mess with it yet. Mostly all older york units. Got called today pne wasnt working. 28c inside. Calling for cold. Compressor runs but no cool air. Havnt gauged it yet. Filters are clean so looking like a gas leak. Identical units on roof working and appear to ve operating the same as far as noise and fan speeds.
Learned at working at a cookie factory. That vfd drives can be pretty sensitive static discharge/temp change Allen Bradley was horrible about melting down
"Rebadged" Danfoss drives. FC-202P3K7T2E20H2XGXXXXSXXXXAXBXCXXXXDX is the equivalent but I would recommend a IP55 enclosure (change the E20 part in the model number to E55), problem with that is that the size gets bigger (from A3 to A5). Another option is coated pcb FC-202P3K7T2E20H2XGCXXXSXXXXAXBXCXXXXDX, same size but the pcb's are coated against moisture ;)
My company pretty much only buys AAON units. They have some good and some bad things about them, but they definitely seem to have figured out where to put VFD’s, it is in a “semi-conditioned” compartment with the compressors and I barely ever see them have problems. Not sure why someone would think putting it in the blower compartment would be a good idea 😂
Trane probably do it because capacitor life will shorten with temperature. Every 10°C cooler will double the lifetime. And those big caps in the drives are probably rated 5000h-10000h at 105°C which could make it fail in warranty.
If this is a problem in real world conditions vs. humidity/thermal cycling issues is a different story.
Aaon has only a few good things and countless bad….too many to bother listing. Straight off the factory floor, they are the worst unit on the market.
@@whoisderf not disagreeing with you there, especially recently. They have been sending units with the wrong condenser fan motors, routinely sending them way overcharged, then sometimes even when they’re not overcharged they just trip out in high pressure for the fun of it.
@@BenTh17 i run into that high pressure switch trip often. Aaon tech support has no clue what the problem is and tell you to call Yaskawa (for the CFM on drives). Yaskawa rep will tell you they get calls about it often, they’ll walk you thru the parameters AAON ENGINEERS WANT, maybe have you change a few things. It will still trip pressure switch. I haven’t ran into over charge yet. I have a building with about 40 Aaon, and all the 16 ton units have this issue, with a mix of straight DX cooling and DX+reheat. I legit believe it’s the way Aaon’s controllers/boards are computing what the pressure transducers are reading. Still working on the true solution on this one, whenever I go to site. Maybe the fan blades are pitched wrong… maybe it’s the micro channel coil design….. Aaon is literally no help.
Couple of my favorite Aaon moments:
Brand new unit (don’t remember tonnage), 2 circuits, each with 1 comp and 1 CFM. Both circuit would trip high pressure. Ended up finding CFM1 wires landed on CFM2 relay and CFM2 wires on CFM1 relay. Call stage 1, Comp1 runs, CFM2 runs.
Another Brand new unit… was having control voltage issues. 24v would be here, but not there, then it would go away completely. Every single wire landed on the low vault terminal blocks, both the 24v and common blocks, they didn’t strip the freakin wires before crimping on the push connectors…. Like what the eff?!!!
I’ve been told they test every unit before it leaves the plant…
I kinda miss using my Aaon/Orion handheld controller….back when Aaon was actually one of the better brands.
I missed a couple episodes, but love the new intro
Thanks
Should have added an overload to that blower contractor, the vfd was the overload before it was bypassed. Thanks for all the great videos
Awesome job and video 😊👍🙌👌🍀🙏
Thanks
I really love the "Future Diagnosis" feature, that's amazing tech right there! 😆 I wish every manufacturer put that feature on their devices!
"Oh, my alternator is going to fail in two weeks, let me just order one now so I can swap it out at a convenient time."
5:31 - I jumped, for no reason.
10:30 - I haven't heard the word "dealio" in a long time... I think I might start using it again.
Is there a "Core Charge" on VFDs? As in, are failed ones sent back to the manufacturer for refurbishment/repair, allowing you to purchase remanufactured drives in the future, or do they simply become e-waste?
As others have noted, the dirt on the touchscreen was likely causing the calibration failures. Those appear to be resistive touchscreens as you'd find on thermostats, as opposed to the capacitive touchscreens more prevalent in our technological goodies like phones and tablets. Dust buildup, especially around the screen's bezel, can cause pressure on the screen, leading to false inputs. Resistive touchscreens rely more on pressure, hence why you can operate them with gloves on, or pointy objects like a stylus, pen, key, etc.
100% agree
Super tech job Chris
Not quite but thanks, lol
Great job Chris Trane can be a pain in the butt.
Blower compartment is best spot for the VFDs. After evaporator so cool semi-dehumidified air to cool the capacitors and IGBTs.
Dan foss customer service/tech support is fantastic.. dont hesitate to call them... That's what THEIR techs do!! Lol
Good job Chris........
Thanks
Reminds me of my Daikin Rebel RTU's. VFD on blower motors, ecm 480v variable speed condenser fan motors, return fan motors and energy recovery wheel. Also all motors are mod bus and address within the microtech controller. Nice units lots to break and go bad
The trane symbio units are super nice to work on
Good to know!
I understand the intent of the VFDs, but in my experience they fail way too often. Can’t tell you how many I’ve had to replace when I was servicing RTUs and they are not cheap.
Hi Chris from the future! 👋🏼
Hello there!
That heating compartment sure looks... Burnt.
Buena tarde Chris, un video de mucho trabajo y mucho que pensar, y la verdad no entiendo por qué venden estos equipos muy caros y además los repuestos con precios muy elevados. Entonces dónde queda el ahorro de energía.
Gracias por todo lo que enseñas Chris, saludos desde Coacalco Edo de México.
Tiene estas en Mexico? estas Voyager units de Trane ? Gracious por ver mis videos tambien
Muchas gracias por todo tú apoyo y tiempo.
Y tus videos son extremadamente muy buenos, onestamente los veo cuando puedo pero estoy al pendiente de ellos.
Saludos a todos cuídense por favor.
Who else was yelling at him that it's 2024 and not 2025?
Am I the only one that waits to see teardown of that VFD unit?
You are not
13:18 I have a touchscreen that always fails calibration... unless you precisely use a stylus to calibrate the screen. You have to use a stylus, or it may fail on you. (based on my experience)
confirmed time traveling HVAC technician...
notice they dint fix the 2025? 🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔
that blower motor looks fun to change lol
Nice Job interesting shit...
I've had the same problem with trane condenser fan motors multiple times with the shaft sticking out of the box
I just got a huge deja'vu! My brain promises me I've seen it before :D Maybe I'm watching too many of your videos.... Nahhh can't be 😅
The looks like a danfoss VFD branded as a trane
Yep
pretty sure the reason the system didn't have an error after disconnecting the blower VFD is because the VFD likely had a relay close when it entered alarm state, and once there was no power to the VFD the relay was no longer closing, thus the main controller was no longer seeing a problem. not how I would have wired it up as it would be smarter to wire it in a fail-safe method where the relay should CLOSE to show normal operation and OPEN if a problem occurs, like the VFD power supply were to fail.
1:40 proof of time travel, meow.
I waited 9 months for a warranty carrier VFD last year for a 12.5t package
Good god Tranes are weird, and those Voyager “spaceships” are even weirder. I do however like how Trane has their blower belt tensioners set up. Super simple and easy to do.
And they don't eat belts like Carriers do.
You might call it dumb logic but if it works then it's not dumb. I would hope the manufacturers are watching and praising the work, because it's not easy for everyone. Taxi drivers can spend a long time learning 'The Knowledge" and I believe the same is true for electronics troubleshooting. I like to think I have "The Knowledge" in my trade because I feel like I'm pretty good at troubleshooting and resolving problems and I look back on what I did and think "how the f did I do that?"
Wish you showed where you hooked up that temp contactor for the vfd call.
He picked up the 24v off the vfd enable relay and tied it directly to the contactor so he can undo everything easily
Thanks that makes sense
5:33 jump scare
It is indeed a time machine, it travelled a year ahead to 2025.
The thumbnail description had me 😂😂😂 big picture diagnosis… the date isn’t part of that 😂 jk! It ok it’s a problem for future Chris, speaking of big picture that motor pulley had rust on it, had it been running even recently that wouldn’t be there makes me wonder how long the blower motor hadn’t been operating
2025? Time flies!😊
Four (4) years since Covid Started and the Equipment Delays Continue. One of Largest Issues is the Continued Reduction in Work Force which is Unbelievable🤪👎
I understand if you call Trane support you get Ted.
I'm curious with poor power quality does failure increase? Should you be selling surge protection or power conditioning systems for these units now that they have just as many if not more computer parts then the average laptop?
Just FYI - modern computers are quite resilient to poor power quality with modern switching PSU's. Not sure how the VFD's handle it though